[The d00dz themselvz]

fATE is a Biggie warez group. So what’s on the other side of the coin? The Inner Circle (TIC) is an example.
Materva had a Chat with TIC’s MadHatter. MadHatter is and in case you've landed here without seeing the previous page, this is Materva. Yeh, right. The Chat is again abbreviated for your easy-reading pleasure.


MadHatter told Materva TIC is, “a group of people who want to distribute Warez to usenet” and went on:

we search for secure servers and try to remain anonymous. well we do it for sport, leisure, fun...We try to bring some order to usenet as well
How do y'all get the programs to begin with?
... we get our apps several ways. often times we get invites to FTP sites do to our visibility in the groups. we have unlisted members who troll in IRC. Many of us are registered beta testers. most of the time its pure luck, that we get into an FTP site right after the big couriers upload
So y'all work thru them to do y'alls work?
We have some friends/ contacts in some cracking groups as well - not always dependant on others. like I said we get some beta materials direct from the source from time to time. hell weve even been known to purchase some stuff .
Do y'all crack also?
We Have cracked some applications
I've seen many cracks upload along with warez. Right some warez requires cracking for multi liscence and or time restraints. Does IC mainly distribute thru Usenet?
Yes Mainly usenet, however we upload to FTP sites as weell. When we FTP to a site its usually from another, what we will do is take advantage of the T1 capabilities of servers and ISP's by transfering files directly.
How much uploading do you think you do a day? On average...
I cant speak for the group as to how much per day, however we each try for one application a week - 12 members 1 app a week, 12 apps, sometimes reposts. The larget application Ive uploaded personally (a record for usenet) is 89 disks 122 MB
Wow, which program was that?
Animatek World Builder, a dos based Graphic and animation application. I have a reputation for posting large applications ... Borland C++ 5.o was 50 disks, I've upped that 4 times. that was a record too
Doesn't that take days or do you have access to a T1 or T3?
"The Inner Circle in no way assumes to be a moderator nor expert in the warez field. We do not claim the responsibility for any thing posted using the name 'Inner Circle'. Nor do we store warez on our machines, or possesion. Software developers have families, and should be able to support them. Piracy is against the law, and we don't encourage it nor deny it's existence. Copyright laws are meant to protect the income of software companies, just as they do others, and we don't encourage breaking them either. The collection of software is nothing more than apissing contest but the warez groups are a good place to find copies of items you have rightfully purchased that may have become corrupt as well as a place to find something you might want to evaluate before purchasing. Remember when you purchase something you get the manuals and doc's that support as well as technical support and there is a better chance it will install and work."

And now ... back to the feature :-)

50 disks at 28.800 takes about 11 hours with a good trace rout. On an application of that size I will often times Upload partials for a few days
What is a trace route?
Trace rout, originates at your machine and ends at the news server. if it's relativly few hops and the times are say 300 ms a hop your doing good. The trace rout is where and how you pass throug other networks and serversto get to the final destination
Are there other Usenet groups y'all compete with?
A group of disgruntled Netcruisers who rather than leave Netcom tried to destroy what was left of the usenet scene.
Heh, what group was this? and how did they plan on destroying Usenet?
The No Mads ... and they roamed from non binary group to non binary group ... Posting Binaries to off topic groups in mass floods properly in large chunks, while flooding the main warez scene groups at 100 line segments. they uploaded but rarely anything new or even relativly new
Guess thats why they call Netcom AOL on the net ;)
Could be. The nomad threat seems to be over
How is that?
they originally felt a need to bad mouth the IC and encourage peolpe to trade on IRC which is a little less secure unfortuantly
Security is better thru Usenet?
Many users associated with the nomads have had their usenet accounts terminated. well usenet if used properly is secure. of coarse theres allways the insecurity of Virus threats (also many posted by the nomads). Usenet OK. Well if you can find a public or pay for use NEWS server you stand a good chace that their wont be any mention of your real ISP. in other words if you can find one that doesnt tag any info as to where you are your safer. also The IC has found bugs and Security leaks in the popular News reader software and taught others to avoid them
What is the news reader of choice for IC?
Agent 99 the most popular of News reades in the warez scene would attach your mail host as an ID in a binary section of your upload. this was not good. we circulated a FAQ on how to repair agent to be safer, also it taught how to not show you were useing agent.
What is your position in IC?
Hard to say. we really dont have any set heirarchy (sp)
So everyone has equal power?
My main position is to do my part, but I also maintain the IC web Sites (or try to) ... we are all equals, some have a better level of access han others and participate more but all equal. theres no me in team
How long have you been doing this - how long has IC been around?
The IC I believe has been around for aproxamatly a year
What are the reuirements to become part of the IC "team"?
an invatation and a basic dedication to helping usenet and posting warez Actually A GOOD working knowledge of PGP is also required


PGP - Phil Zimmerman's Pretty Good Privacy - is a story unto itself and we'll get to it in the Net Security chapter. For now, it has for years been blocking strenuous efforts by various international Net *police* groups to read email. And they don't like it. Dorothy Denning is a university professor who's reputedly worked closely with America's National Security Agency and who's been studying hacking in general, and hackers in particular, for many moons. On the Pretty Good Privacy page in the UK, she's quoted as saying, "PGP could potentially become a widespread problem."

And now ... back to the feature :-)

Ok. Y'all use PGP heavily then?
It appears that the small group we have (12 on the scene and about 3 behind the scene) are well connected. We use PGP to converse yes. it protects us from our ISP's among many other things. We have a tight network of resources we share as well where we will use PGP. The Cypher Punk remailers are all PGP encrypted as well
Why from your ISP's?
well if your isp doesnt know what your mail says he cant blow the whistl on your activities. as far as new servers go none of us post to the news servers associated with our ISP's. so our ISP's are in a way only a link for the transfer, and may very well never know who or what we are
Are y'all friends with the other warez groups?

well I cant speak for others in our group but we may have some friends out there. I'll touch briefly on the remailers if you like. Members in the IC can all be contacted via e-mail. we use the remailers to do this and again since it's encrypted we are secure in our identities. We dont Trade Via e-mail. however do to the 32k file size limitations. occasionally we will post a HOT crack or reg code to usenet via mail to news gateway
mail to news gateway?
encrypted on the way out and it's origins never known keeping us again successfully secure and hidden. Mail to new gate ways are run on very few Cypherpunk remailers ... that will post to usenet anonymously yet only small items can be posted. brb I gotta refresh my drink
Are you afraid of ever being caught?
well from time to time I get a scare ... on my most recent post Animatex World Builder, I recieved e-mail from one of the top dogs on What version it may be. this mail was from Digimation the only distributor for Animatek . I've possibly gotten too brave as well on this point I answer all this mail. I personally believe that we are small time, more of good advertieing than anything and the advertisments are free as far as the software companies are condcerend. I mentioned a bit ago that Agent had a bug that revealed an ID from your ISP. this was a big scare too, we got our hands on a new build of agent 99, and I was doing a repost of Visual Basic. my Real ID and mail host were attached to every binary section of the upload. some 16 disks 3 pieces each, the 0/3 segment wasnt affected luckily.
0/3 is meant to state the beginning header post that describes what the file is eh?
Most people dont read header statements thankfully and I proptly repaired this security leak and uploaded another 40 MB's to scroll my breah of secutrity off the servers. There's always another issue of concern as well. not everyone is going to like me (or any other IC member for that matter). Some may have our real ID's or know what we do and who we are, we have become very careful on ID sharing - even within the group we all dont know who the others are. a few of us know eachother but we keep it to a minimum. Theres no real need to know this info. if ID's are traded it's stricly out of mutual respect. no one puts more on the line than anyone else ( or at least thats hoew I think)
You stated earlier think most of the big companies don't really care about the warez scence? Saying it was a sort of advertisement...
ok Big companies - well Sure Usenet see's a lot of Warez, I think it's something like 3 gigs of binaries a day. not all of this is warez but a majority is. but for software companies there are bigger enemies. many PC manufactureres pratice Drive Stuffing, where they install a lot of software on a new pc. they will lead the end user to believe they paid for it but often times they dont get the disks to prove it. then there are the big time pirates, those who burn and sell cd's. China, Japan, Tiawan all have very large Installer CD markets, often times one CD will have over $10,00 worth of software and it sells on the street for less than $10 US - that was $10.,000 for $10 US. You can even find these Installer Cd's at Flea Markets here in the US. Black market dealers will import a case or so and get them out here in the states. This is where the Big companies loose there Revenue, most Usenet users are just curious and broke.
Whats the must requested apps? Games Net apps/
wel, the IC from a group stand point doesnt do a lot of Games. we are true net addicts so we post a lot of that typwe of thing. most Net applications can be had Shareware and free (so to speak) easily so we often only post URL's and Reg codes or cracks for them. Programming applications are intermitently popular, (however think about someone writing code on pirated software, will they make an honest buck?). Graphics apps are very popular as well as your basic utilities and office stuff. Opperating systems are often popular as well Win 95 was a big advbancement, and it was traded heavily even in beta code.
I was told by a memeber of Fate that WinNT is pretty popular right now - As well as Win 95 of course
betas of win 96 (or nashville) have also been thrown around but from my stand point internal problems at MS make these very dangerous. NT 4.0 is VERY popular
Why are they dangerous?
NT builds have been uploaded to usenet on average one new build a week sometimes dangerous. well nashville was nice better looking but full of bugs, and incompatabilities. as it progressed, ther were arguments on weather to adapt the NTFS or 32 bit fat file system. these arguments apparently still go on. 32 bit fat is non reversable :( it can bight the inexperianced in the ass. ntfs will read it thoug
What does it do? nt file system? is that what ntfs is?
Developer builds are posted often of NT 4.0 but they are ridled with debug beta code. yes sorry NTFS is the NT files system. NT 4.0 looks secure and as the MS flag ship it probably will replace win 95 soon.

If you want to troll through the whole thing, click here and make sure you put Chat2 in the subject space.

In the meanwhile, want to read what a couple of warez targets think?

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Copyright © 1966 Jon Newton