A Practical Guide to Suicide
http://www.satanservice.org/coe/suicide/guide/
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday,talk.euthanasia
Subject: A Practical Guide to Suicide
Summary: How to go about terminating your life.
Keywords: coe, suicide, guide, reference, practical
References: http://www.satanservice.org/
Replaces: 1.03
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Reply-To: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Organization: Church of Euthanasia (coe@netcom.com)
Archive-name: suicide/guide
Last-modified: 2000/02/08
Version: 1.04
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---------------------------------------------------------
CONTENTS
========
A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO SUICIDE
I. Preparations
A. CONTEMPLATING DEATH
B. IMAGINING THE POST-MORTEM WORLD
C. CONSIDERING THE SYMBOLISM OF DEATH AND SUICIDE
D. LYING SUCCESSFULLY
E. RESOLVING LIFE PROBLEMS
F. LETTING OTHERS ASSIST
II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods
A. INGESTION/INJECTION/INHALATION
1. Poisons
a. Antifreeze
b. Cyanide
2. Depressants
a. Alcohol
b. Barbiturates
c. Heroin and other Controlled Substances
3. Inhaling Carbon Monoxide (CO)
B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION
1. Constricting Circulation
a. Leather Strap
b. Rope
c. Wire
2. Oxygen Displacement
a. Ether
b. Nitrogen/Helium (Inert Gasses)
c. Carbon Dioxide/Suffocation (CO2)
d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O)
e. Water/Drowning (H2O)
C. DAMAGE (Physical Methods)
1. Decapitation
a. Guillotine
b. Hanging
2. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Breakage)
a. Hanging (Neck Break)
3. Electrocution
4. Hypothermia
a. Snow
b. Water
5. Immolation
6. Exsanguination/Bloodloss
a. Major Arteries/Veins
b. Wrists
7. Weapons
a. Explosives
b. Guns
i. Shotgun
ii. Death-By-Police
D. IMPACT
1. Devices
a. Crushing Machines
2. Weights
3. Heights (Falling)
a. Bridges
b. Buildings
c. Planes
4. Vehicles
a. Trains
b. Trucks
E. COMBINATION
1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump)
2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag)
3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/
leaky boat in cold water)
F. MYTHS
1. air vein-injection (??)
2. body paint (Goldfinger)
3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool)
4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.)
5. head in oven (gasphyxiation)
=================================================================
0.0 A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO SUICIDE
To: lemminglounge
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Subject: Suicide is Easy
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
there are sure-fire plans to kill yourself, but they
don't always factor in the character and feelings of
the person carrying them out. this is why I have put
some emphasis on contemplation and reflection in the
Practical Guide to Suicide that I'm compiling: I
think it is very important that the person hirself is
taken into consideration, because any 'sure-fire'
plan can be disrupted by fear, uncertainty, or just
plain self-deception.
we need to devise scenarios for the typical
experiences people are having when they are suicidal,
like those who:
* are sick and dying anyway and want an easy way
out that doesn't involve a lot of mobility
* are depressed and can't find the motivation to
go great distances (as to procure barbiturates
like the phenobarbitol recommended in "Final Exit")
* are disgusted with life and want a way out that
isn't too painful, messy or likely to fail
* want to die for any reason and are afraid of
being discovered, seen as a coward, or judged as
evil by those she loves and is obsessed with
* want to go out in a blaze of glory, making a
strong statement against all hir enemies
* want revenge on some society, group or person,
and want to use their suicide as a means of
achieving this
* want to become an enigma or a media sensation,
challenging the boundaries of narcissus
I think that elaborate plans could be constructed
for all of these conditions and desires, but
certain combinations may be quite difficult to
achieve (such as one who is depressed and lacking
in energy and yet wants to go out in a way that
would take some work).
The Empowerment of Accepting Death
we can be caught between knowing that we want to die
and taking steps to accomplish it and really
just wanting life to be different and trying to
find some way to escape or hide from it. attempting
suicide can be a way of shuffling the deck. no
matter how much we may decry the control exercised
over us once we've failed an attempt, we are the
ones who got us there. it is a means of changing
the life we are leading (abandoning control, which
a lot of us want to do but for which are afraid of
the repercussions). this is in part why some
people commit crimes -- to return to a controlled
environment where they can not have to face the
stress of decision-making.
knowing that we can at any point terminate our
lives can be a powerful incentive. ok, now I can
do anything. if the heat gets too much, I can
push 'eject, game over' and I don't have to worry
about the conditions I've created for myself. to
many this is considered 'weak, avoidance, cheating,
sinful, etc.', but that is just a human judgment
intent on keeping us as their pawns, playing by
*their* rules, condemned by *their* bogey gods,
afraid to take the Final Power into their own hands
and projecting this onto us as some sort of cosmic
sin. after all, if they have to suffer in the shit-
hole we're making of the world, we should be
required to suffer it too, right? they'll say that
we're a 'sore-loser' or a 'spoiled-sport' (their
game was ruined) if we don't remain inside their
pitiful, finite game (cf. Carse, Watts) and submit
to our position.
they are condemned to Hell in a life they deserve,
and my power to end my own life is like a Secret
Weapon. remember those spy movies and stories?
there's always the 'cyanide pill' if we're captured
or enter into a situation which may compromise our
values and goals. if we condition ourselves to
ingest it (something that these stories NEVER talk
about, but the spies have to endure it to break
anti-suicidal conditioning), that is, to terminate
our lives, then we are better equipped to attain
anything we want or die after feeling that our
efforts were thwarted. it is arguable that this is
of the strengths of Asian martial codes such as
bushido which focus so intently on the death of
the participant.
if we're *really* creative we may rig up a type of
death which serves to accomplish something long in
our wake (like Jesus or Socrates did).
I. Preparations
when one is dedicated to the task, suicide will
not be difficult to achieve at all. the major problem
is internal, not external. some degree of
self-analysis, preparation for death, the reaction
one will not witness but apparently cause, etc., is
important since we are conditioned to regulate our
behavior based on imagining the reaction others will
feel in response to our choices.
Other than deciding on the method of self-termination,
the practical preparation for suicide includes
accepting one's demise, how it will be effected, and
one's role in the social world prior to that event.
Deciding (or leaving undecided) the metaphysical
issues inherent to the notion of suicide (such as
how the cosmos may be structured, whether there
are moral authorities who have forbidden the taking
of your life, what happens to people when they die,
whether it matters if someone has killed themselves
as to the quality of any post-mortem experiences,
etc.) is an important part of accepting the idea of
effecting one's own death.
Contemplating the likely responses to the type of
suicide one has planned and the future development
of the society in which one lives (i.e. how family and
friends will react to the news of your choice to end
your life, what, if any, repercussions, there may be
to the message your death may symbolize, etc.) is
essential in the construction of a satisfactory
suicide method and context.
Discerning one's social role prior to suicide is
immensely helpful in the precise delineation of
the pre-termination itinerary. Whether this may
include lying to one's friends and family (so as
to avoid being bereft of autonomy and freedom in
a misguided attempt to provide 'help'), the
resolution of administrative details (like arranging
for payment of regular bills and any funerary expenses
that will likely be incurred by your survivors, etc.),
or a fierce and fiery 'Shooting Star' termination
in which a huge mess is left to those whom you
despise or have learned to disregard, knowing how
to approach the world will put those destined
for death one step ahead of those who may wish
to see that a self-termination fails.
A. CONTEMPLATING DEATH (the experience itself, what
we imagine or fantasize will happen at
the time of death, what we would like
to have happen, what we have been taught
will happen and how we feel about that,
how we feel about the encounter with the
unknown that death will be)
fear of pain is an important reason to hesitate
when contemplating self-termination. we don't want
to become paincenters, we want to terminate the
pain we may be feeling (often psychological). the
Surity Factor of practical methods is an important
part of their consideration (which is why I include
so much detail in the posts below evaluating
methods, probably obvious to any who have seriously
considered suicide before).
but what is it about pain that we fear? to some
extent this fear is entirely groundless and
irrational. are we sure we don't want to feel ANY
pain at all, even for a moment when the grenade we've
placed next to our head goes off? flying through the
air on the way to the ground we don't want to imagine
the impact at high speed and the very short stimulus
of every one of our nerves? driving onward with our
heads flying backwards after being lopped off by
piano wire attached to the axle of a parked truck or
the trunk of a large tree, we don't want to feel
the 'awkwardness' of seeing the world suddenly go
topsy-turvy, feeling an imaginary body and wondering
where 'we' are now?
this is why experimenting with pain-play and getting
over a dread fear of it can be valuable. we begin to
understand that it is a *temporary* response to
intense change (whether this be the change of
decaying and dying as we age or due to some, possibly
desired 'catastrophe'). eventually it stops being the
obstacle it was and we can decide on suicide with a
clear will.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: stop-picking@that.rightnow (just another onionhead)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:36:58 GMT
...the thing that kept me from doing it was not that
I wanted to live but that I was just too fucking
scared of dying. And it wasn't _being_ dead that
frightened me, it was the _dying_ part. The Trip form
Here to There. It makes me shiver right now, thinking
about that night. I'm just a coward, basically - this
makes me wish I were dead, but at the same time it
keeps me alive. Same old stuff. :(
Maybe it was the method I chose that made it so
difficult for me (hanging can be pretty gruesome if you
don't do it right), but I can see where it might be
the same with a shotgun. I suppose that when your
conscious mind is aware that you're about to hit the
Full Stop button, it's gonna fight pretty goddamn hard
to keep you from doing so. The actual reasons are
probably different for each individual....
>I have often thought that the reason people commit
>suicide is that they care too much about what
>other people think.
Actually, that's one of the things that _keeps_
me from doing it.
----------------------------------------------------
To: kissass (CoE Forum)
From: boboroshi/CoE (boboroshi@satanservice.org)
Date: 11/24/98
...most of us don't have the first inkling about what
death includes, what it will be like, and a great
number of humans hope to mystically circumvent this
extinction-phase of our lives (termination). so we
become members of cults which dream about afterlives
and pretend that we're never going to die. the
culture in which I live [US:CA] is pro-youth and
ANTI-DEATH.
I prefer to learn from works of art like "Logan's Run"
(though I don't like the fact that the society
is dominated and death is not OPTIONAL prior to
degeneration) or "Zardoz" (which, while a low-budget
cult film, has wonderful things to say about how
fucked up people can get when we try to avoid natural
processes and instead try to avoid the beauty of
death and its results).
----------------------------------------------------
To: private email list
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: 1998/01/31
# As significant as the fact that the means are easy and
# painless is the fact that there is no stigma or shame
# attached to suicide, since it is accepted (generally
# speaking, even if someone would not want to lose a
# particular individual to suicide).
this is an important premise to get across. yet more
than this should be the consideration of how death
could be made PLEASURABLE! what if death could be
the ultimate experience a human being could engage?
pay a few thousand dollars and suddenly a whole circus
of possibility opens up. death during sex, at the
height of euphoria; death while engaging all the
nastiest (or alluring), most forbidden (or desired)
pleasures of the world.
if there is no future which may be ruined, why not
engage that which would otherwise harm or destroy
us simultaneously? all the most exciting things
which we'd avoid due to their risk and deleterious
future repercussions would become options.
----------------------------------------------------
recommended by a friend:
cf. the book "Cause of Death", which evaluates the
exact processes of death without faux sensationalism.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "hmd1"
Subject: Re: How to overcome the fear of death?
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:45:32 GMT
Joseph T. Adams :
> How does one go about overcoming, or at least
> temporarily "tuning out," the natural fear of
> death, of the afterlife, etc.?
i don't have a good answer but here are some ideas
that worked for me
1.drugs, at least some of them
2.wait till you can't handle the pain
of being alive anymore and i'm sure
you won't be asking yourself such questions
3.some music
4.making yourself deeply depressed
It took me several months to push me over the edge
(i.e. to feel like 2.) by using 1, 3, and 4. I also
isolated myself more or less completely from the
outside world so i would have noone to think about
when i was to do it. At some point i started
thinking in circles and it wasn't long before i
wasn't scared anymore about death itself. I didn't
succeed in killing myself but at least now i'm not
afraid to die anymore.
This won't help getting rid of the fear of the
afterlife but since i don't have such a problem
i can't help there.
----------------------------------------------------
Reading about suicide and methods can in fact make
one become acclimatized to the rationality and
realism of self-termination. Here are some book
recommendations:
"Suicide and Attempted Suicide: Methods and Consequences"
by Geo Stone, 1999
To: alt.suicide.methods
From:
Subject: Re: Suicide with gas, Geo Stones book
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:09:40 -0500
Frank wrote ...
> > ...I strongly support Stones book, since
> > there is a desperate need for more and better
> > suicide-manuals. I just wonder why he couldnt
> > have developed a few methods to the very detail?
> > I would specifically have liked to see a
> > detailed oxygen displacement method, since the
> > components for such a method should be available
> > to most people.
"A Guide To Self-Deliverance" EXIT (Britain)
"Autodeliverance" Michel L Landa
"The Bell Jar" Sylvia Plath
"Bitter Fame" (bio about) Sylvia Plath (author is) Anne Stevenson
"Caring for the Suicidal" John Eldrid
"Death of a Man" Lael Wertenberger
"Double Exit" Ann Wickett
"Dying With Dignity", 1992, Derek Humphry (dhumphry@efn.org)
"Essays in Self-Destruction" (ed) Edwin S Shneidman
"Final Exit", 1991, Derek Humphry (dhumphry@efn.org)
"The Final Months: a Study of the Lives of 134 Persons
who Committed Suicide" Eli Robins
"First You Cry" Betty Rollin
"How To Die With Dignity" George B Mair, EXIT (Scottish)
"Jean's Way" Derek Humphry
"Justifiable Euthanasia" Pieter V Admiraal
"Last Wish" Betty Rollin
"Let Me Die Before I Wake", Derek Humphry
"Letters Home" (bio about) Sylvia Plath (author is)
Aurelia S Plath
"Mishima: A Biography" John Nathan
"The Oxford Book of Death" D J Enright
"Prescription Medicide: the Goodness of Planned Death", 1991,
Jack Kevorkian
"The Savage God: A Study of Suicide" A Alvarez
"Suicide and Attempted Suicide" Erwin Stengel
"Suicide: A Study in Sociology" Emile Durkheim
"Suicide: Inside and Out" David K Reynolds, Normal L Farberow
"Suicide: The Gamble with Death" Gene & David Lester
"Voluntary Euthanasia: A Comprehensive Bibliography"
G Johnson (Hemlock)
"Wanting to Die" Anne Sexton
"The Woman Said Yes" Jessamyn West
an article from "The Humanist" magazine
"Death With Dignity", by William McCord;
January-Febrary, 1993.
----------------------------------------------------
Songs about suicide can also get you in the mood:
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Suspicious Data
Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song?
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 04:30:01 PDT
> > "Something I can never have", Nine Inch Nails ...
>
> There is also another great suicide song ...
> from Marylin Manson , the last song on
> Antichrist Superstar.
>
> The Cure has a lot of great suicidal songs.
Doors "yes the river knows" is another fine tune.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Daniel Kosucu
Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song?
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:43:13 +0100
Stay together by a British band called Suede
is an excellent song. The lyrics are about
what the title suggests and is about two
lovers forming a suicide pact.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: timmygato@aol.com (TimmyGato)
Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song?
Date: 25 Sep 1997 16:24:35 GMT
>> > ...alice in chains has lots of
>> > suicidal favourites, especially on Dirt.
Especially Dirt on Dirt....
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: melf@cubenet.de (Andrew)
Subject: re: good suicide song?
Date: 25 Sep 97 22:42:18
1-800-Suicide by Gravediggaz or Hey Man Nice
Shot from Filter aren't bad either.
Both are on the soundtrack to Demon Knight.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Suspicious Data
Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 97 18:41:33 PDT
> Morrissey, Bauhaus, Coil, Peter Murphy,
> Sisters of Mercy, Lords of Acid (If you feel
> like dancing first), Mistlethrush, Black
> Tape for a Blue Girl...
Morrissey is ok, I like "lifeguard sleeping,
girl drowning" but sisters of mercy suck.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Jul
Subject: Re: Good Suicide Song?
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 00:35:27 +0800
Kristy wrote:
> Suicidal Tendencies: How Will I Laugh Tomorrow
> (When I Can't Even Smile Today) Suicidal Failure
> Feel Like Shit (Deja Vu)
>
> Pink Floyd: The Postwar Dream
> The Final Cut
> Comfortably Numb
>
> >
> > > ...put the song on re-peat so when they find
> > > you, they'll hear it. Sorta like an audio suicide note.
> > > My suggestion is Gloomy Sunday (Sarah McLachlan's cover
> > > version)
>
> Suicidal Tendencies: Suicide's an Alternative
> Life of Agony: River Runs Red
>
> I heard thatthere is a symphony by Mahler that
> is never played, because people get the urge to
> commit suicide after hearing it.
> Serious!
Well, I've got one suggestion - The track called
"Burn" by The Cure in the Crow soundtrack..
----------------------------------------------------
And so can films:
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: carol
Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ?
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:23:59 +0200
i know only one book really dealing with suicide
and not the english title (translated it would
be "matildas last summer"). but "steppenwolf"
(h. hesse) and "werther" (goethe) have left a
big impression.
carol
----------------------------------------------------
[call_me_dan's movielist:]
Movies about Suicide
--------------------
10 Whose Life is it Anyway?
10 'Night, Mother
10 Leaving Las Vegas
9 The New Age (largely involving suicide
and life sucky-ness)
6 Julian Po
Harold and Maude
Movies with Suicidal Characters
-------------------------------
10 Lethal Weapon
6 Groundhog Day
Movies with Suicides
--------------------
10 Full Metal Jacket
8 Shawshank Redemption
8 Thelma and Louise
7 Gattaca
The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3
Dr. Strangelove
Vanishing Point
The Crow
My Name is Joe
Honorable Mention
-----------------
8 Dead Poets Society
The Deer Hunters
The Madwoman of Chaillot
Swing Kids
A Few Good Men
The English Patient
IMDb search results
-------------------
After Darkness
Bad Timing
Brave
Breakfast of Champions (summary sounds pretty good)
Chattahoochee
The Crude Oasis
God's Lonely Man
The Odd Job
On Campus
Pact (summary sounds like an ash party ;)
3 Pump Up the Volume
Zina
[/call_me_dan's movielist]
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: cbreck@elknet.net (Carol)
Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ?
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:05:51 -0600
One of my favorites is a dark comedy suicide
flick..The End, with Burt Reynolds and Dom Delouise.
It's hysterical! I particularlly enjoy the part
where Burt swallows a handful of every kind of pill
from his Mom's medicine chest, with sour milk.
He immediatly spews out the mess on a coffee table
and remarks, "Looks like Walt Disney threw up."
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Lady Midnight
Subject: Re: Top 10 suicidial movies/novels of all time ?
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 01:44:22 GMT
oh yes, and not to forget *the* classic: Goethe's
'sufferings of young werther' (after this book was
published -- in the 16 hundreds i think, but i could
be wrong -- there was a slew of copycat suicides,
where dozens of young men killed themselves with
a copy of 'werther' in their pockets)
and for movies: 'thelma and louise'
----------------------------------------------------
B. IMAGINING THE POST-MORTEM WORLD (what things will
be like after we have died, what changes
our family and friends will make, how our
death will affect them and how they will
transform because of our action, how our
suicide might be seen and whether it will
be understood for what it is or if it will
be misinterpreted somehow (e.g. as
'mental illness')
To: lemminglounge
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
postmortem fantasies (judgement by the god, for
example) are implants designed to prevent our being
out of the control of the cultic group. there is no
evidence for their reality. they have observable
affects on human behavior (largely irrational), and
can be countered by effective hypnotic techniques or
a sufficiently long focus on counter-images or
counter-indoctrinatory concepts.
suddenly 'becoming' an atheist or materialist-
scientist, studying the popular expressions of this
culture, the Skeptics, or their like, can have
tremendously liberating repercussions. we may
even find that, unloading all this shit from a
repressive religious regime, we are now equipped
to face life for a few more years (hopefully in
service to nonhuman species or at least to
ourselves) without all that Guilt Crap.
also worthwhile is the intentional fantasizing
of alternatives to the Nightmare Condemnation
urged by these fanatics. I have, for example,
imagined myself as being carried away by the
shades as in the film 'Ghost' but without all
the Orphic, Judeochristian horror, lofted on
their shoulders in joy and revelry, a Child of
the Darkness, carried down into the Wombful
Underworld as Prince of the Daemons, crowned and
conquering, a Hero for Terra. this has
tremendously liberative counterbalances against
the idiocy of the Bogey and His Punishment that
the Western Book-Slaves have created in the
minds of impressionable and perpetuated as a
meme into the heart of existential angst.
while I still don't believe in all this
postmortem fantasizing, being a good Buddhic
Satanist, I do find that, having some other
comparable fantasy material allows me to
categorize it all more easily than accepting
some sort of Pascal Rap about how much better
the choice is that I must make FOR the Yosemite
Sam God than opting (like Bugs Bunny, my hero)
AGAINST this phantasm.
I might just as well accept that I must make
a choice FOR the God of Toasters or of Lemmings
(here I come, ready or not, oh God of Lemming
Suicides! Yippee!!).
----------------------------------------------------
To: private email list
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: 49980131
[obstacles to suicide]
...The desire to go on living
this would include attachment to loved ones, activities,
places and/or entertainments which we would (presumably,
some people have very weird ideas like about 'the
afterlife') not wish to depart. I think lovers, children,
sex and wilderness are the most common attachments that
keep people from ending their lives.
lovers will become increasingly difficult to obtain
in an era of continued compartmentalization and
disease-fear. children will eventually be
restricted to those with licenses. and the
wilderness will, unless we take steps to bring these
liberties into reality sooner than later, mostly be
inaccessible or completely obliterated.
absent these factors I think life will become drab
and, outside the fantasy of media entertainment and
the advertizers who will control those that view it,
meaningless enough to inspire a great deal more to
end their lives. those with the capital will of
course attempt to terraform other planets and
recreate the relative Eden we have had until quite
recently.
...
# people would accept suicide very casually. There
# would be TV commercials for franchised assisted suicide
# center chains. (The MacDonald's of suicide.) (And
# then there are these fringe "anti-suicide cults"...)
but what about the sensualist-death cults? you see,
that is what I, in my queer CoE involvement, want to
see more of: consensual human sacrifice, necrophilia,
bestiality, cannibalism, perhaps COMBINING all of
these things in a religious ritual (could even be
Christian).
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: hermotimus
> > More likely: I'll check in to a motel, when I decide to
> > check out. Let the motel staff and the police take care
> > of finding the body, cleanup, etc., and just notify my
> > family.
> > The only drawback to that is that I think a
> > suicide in a semi-public place like a motel is more
> > likely to result in a newspaper story, which might be
> > embarrassing to the family.
> So why not go for a motel faaaar away?
I did plan on going at least into the next county,
40-50 miles away, so it probably wouldn't make the
local news. If I'm really adamant about keeping out
of the headlines, I guess I ought to plan on doing
it on August 18, the day after Clinton gives his
blow-by-blow account of his blows.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "canaria"
Subject: Re: Please critique my method
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:52:34 GMT
great plan.
killing yourself in foreign country is the same
plan which I have now. and..if u die in foreign
country without any thing which can prove
yourself..like passport..etc.. they'll be very
confused which country u from or who u are..even
if they find u. and why don't u find someone near
u who can send your already written letter to
your dad periodically. and that'll be no harm to
your dad.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: sbarrymurf@aol.com (Sbarrymurf)
Subject: Re: Disappearing without trace
Date: 30 Dec 1999 20:24:39 GMT
let me out wrote:
> I've come to the conclusion that I could disappear
> without leaving any trace other than a note like
> "Don't look for me anymore. I'm gone forever
The best way to disappear is to go to a faraway city,
preferably in the Third World. If you're in the U.S.
go to Mexico. No passport needed. Make sure to leave
no paper trail. Don't make airline reservations. Just
take a train to El Paso or San Diego, then cross the
border on foot to Juarez or Tijuana.
Throw out any I.D. you have on you. Kill yourself,
the authorities won't know who the hell you are, or
even what country you're from. I suppose if it's a
border town they'll assume you're American. No
problem, go to Mexico City. You could be from anywhere.
They'll declare you a John Doe (or a Juan Doe, more
accurately.), bury you in an unmarked grave, and
that's all. Then your shmuck relatives can ponder
your disappearance forever.
----------------------------------------------------
C. Considering the symbolism of death and suicide
(how what we are fantasizing might factor
into something we want on a deeper level
than a literal interpretation, like a
"death of the self", "death to the world",
"death and rebirth", and how these might
be spiritual experiences)
----------------------------------------------------
D. Lying successfully (what to say and how to say
it so as to resolve emotions with people
we know and love but still keep them in
the dark about what we are planning to
do without giving our intentions away)
To: private email
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
RE whether people will know we intend suicide:
if you have attempted it before, they may
suspect something is 'wrong' due to the
sudden change in your attitude. doctors
and/or media may have given them lists of
'signs to look for that indicate impending
suicide', like a sudden resolve, openness,
desire to let go of past issues with family,
giving away one's possessions, etc. read
the Encouraging Suicide FAQ if you want to
see a thorough list -- at the following URL:
http://www.satanservice.org/coe/suicide/faq.encouraging
it is as important to us to know what will
tip people off if we are intending suicide
(or looking for people to pact-suicide with)
as it is for those who want to thwart our
wills once we have decided that death is the
choice we desire.
----------------------------------------------------
E. Resolving life problems (notes,
relationships, debts, discontinuing
services, body disposal)
To: lemminglounge email list
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:39:02 -0800 (PST)
#># In MY opinion, a *good* Note should include the following:
#># - why someone took the bus [i.e. killed themselves]
...I agree that, if someone actually thinks that they
know why they ended their life (usually to terminate
physical and/or psychic pain/depression), then it may
be important to include this in a suicide note, agreed.
#># - why one did not tell them before
# The second question *they* ask is: WHY did he/she not tell
# us before ? So, tell them !
alright, I can see that this *might* be valuable, as long
as one feels a need to conceal one's activities (rather
than to responsibly end one's life by terminating/resolving
all relationships). again, it really depends on why one
is killing oneself. if this is done to escape pain, then
the objection ought be raised: why didn't you take steps
to ameliorate that pain through the ingestion of drugs or
the subjection to psychotherapy to 'fix the problem'? if
it is done in order to reduce the human impact upon a
beleaguered planet, then there is no need to wait until
death to explain the importance of suicide or why one
might engage it. euthanasia (whether assisted or
undertaken by an individual) ought to be the birthright
of all informed adults.
#># - what other solution one has tryed before the final one
#>
#> unnecessary, but possibly helpful to others.
#
# And [it] shows... that it was an informed decision.
not necessarily, since there are always objections to
terminating life based on the held-out hope that there
may be a 'cure someday'. this is contrary to the
notion that a person ought to have the right to
terminate their life whenever they want in a dignified
manner and with assistance from the latest technologies.
#># - why this was the best solution/[decision]
superfluous excepting compassion.
if one is intending to end one's life for reasons
which do not involve other people or one wishes to
strike back at those who were unkind to one in life,
then either refraining from any kind of suicide
note or writing something very hostile will
have an entirely different effect upon the reader(s).
if one decides to end one's life, this should be
sufficient for those who respect who and what we
are and our ability to make decisions about that
which it is only our business to decide (whether
we live or die; notable exceptions for dependents,
but these can be provided arrangements in a will).
# My 6 points for a *good* note are inspirations
# for a note to reduce the pain of loved ones.
this may or may NOT be a desired activity....
# Other motivations need other points.
revenge, martyrdom, catalyst of species consciousness.
suicide notes can be written for a variety of reasons,
only part of which includes a clear communication of
where we are and what we're up to. they can also be
made into a political expressions, final stabs of
revenge from the grave at our enemies, a puzzle for
those with way too many calories, etc., etc.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: L.B. Noire
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:02 -0500
>How To Write a Note - FAQ
>I plan to write the FAQ on *How To Write a Note*
how about a standard a.s.h note? something along
the lines of:
dear:
[ ] mother
[ ] father
[ ] lover
[ ] all of the above
i have done this you see before you because:
[ ] you suck
[ ] the world sucks
[ ] my life sucks
[ ] my job sucks
[ ] my vacuum sucks
[ ] all of the above
there was nothing you could do to stop me because:
[ ] i had already made up my mind
[ ] i have been suffering all my life
[ ] i already threw away the receipt for the shotgun
[ ] you were too slow to do anything about it
etc.
----------------------------------------------------
To: kissass@hollyfeld.org (KissAss! CoE Elist)
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
suicide notes don't create problems. the problems are
endemic to the society itself and its sickness about death.
however, taking into account the idiocy and what ramifications
may come from certain spins on suicide notes can be quite
important (vengeance from the grave, for example, or giving
your family a break for being normals).
many people take notes as communications rather than last
words in reflection of what one knows one is leaving (like a
review of a film one has just seen), or rather than poetry
(unless obviously so, which I think would be a perfect type
of suicide note).
if we can't say these things to people when alive, is this
part of the reason that we feel so suicidal? if so, then we
deserve to say them as we launch ourselves into the Realm of
Death.
here's my suggestion:
I, _______________, being of sound mind and body,
will kill myself in service to the organism who bore
me. my sacrifice will relieve a little of the
suffering and tragedy that my species is creating
and serve as a symbol of responsibility.
I want my body to be consumed by living creatures,
if possible after being put to sodomous ends, in the
fulfillment of my dedication to the Church of
Euthanasia's mission to reduce human overpopulation
and reclaim the proper role and character of human
death. having the presence of mind to become a full
member of the church, and having obeyed its One
Commandment, I expect to be made a Saint immediately.
___________________ signed in blood or other body fluid
----------------------------------------------------
To: lemminglounge
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
if we're really dedicated to dying and have the
energy, we'll change geographic locations, cut off
and tie up all the loose ends of relationships,
resolve all monetary contracts and future
obligations, and generally prepare in a
responsible way.
----------------------------------------------------
To: ash-l@hollyfeld.org
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:55:21 -0800 (PST)
# if I get desperate, I can use the shotgun. I
# just feel guilty about leaving a mess.
(1) use an emergency hospital room; the personnel
are used to cleaning up blood.
(2) steal out to the wilderness where animals
will devour you.
(3) plant yourself next to a compost heap and
rig up something that will bury you over time.
----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Suicide as a paid promotional stunt!
From: uncited usenet post
Date: Mon, Mar 1997
A jumper could dress in the company color scheme,
and have a banner trailing them, and yell the
slogan on the way down from a landmark bridge or
building like the Golden Gate or Empire State.
Suicides could designate beneficiaries for payment,
like life insurance.
----------------------------------------------------
F. Letting others assist (making sure they
don't suffer any sort of repercussions,
legal hassles, etc.)
[I don't know how serious this fellow was....]
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "Barry Norris"
Subject: Murder for suicides
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 04:17:53 -0000
My name is Barry Norris
I would like to offer my services to any member of
this group. With prior arrangement, I will travel
to your home or location of choice and using your
desired method I will kill you. I am prepared to
use any agreed evil force to end your life on this
earth. I promise to take you from your life and cast
you away into the unknown. Your soul will leave your
body at my hands.
The vivid terms come with some apology but in no
other way could I impress on you the nature of
my services.
Should you need it, I can offer you an additional
facility whereby I 'dress the death'. Exempli
Gratia, the scene is disguised in the form of a
burglary or car accident should you wish to spare
the feelings of family/friends.
When, having carefully considered all the options,
you are fully minded to take advantage of my help,
please feel truly welcome to contact me.
Thanks,
Barry
(+44) (0)118 967 1230
ebiro@dialstart.net
23 Alpine Street, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 2PY,
Great Britain
----------------------------------------------------------
[METHODS]
II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods
To: suicidemethods@onelist.com
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Subject: Duration and Quality of Suicide (was Death, not pain)
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
# What is the least painful way to commit suicide?
there are two factors of importance in considering the
experience of the suicide (ignoring collateral considerations
like how the suicide will affect others): the DURATION before
death (whether we would wish it extended or shortened;
conventionally considered 'short' and 'long'), and the
QUALITY of the subjective experience over the *course* of that
duration (often painful, pleasurable, or of a neutral quality).
the question of "the least painful way to intentionally
end one's life" only takes into consideration the qualitative
element of this experience. it is AFFECTED by the duration
if disintegration/death occurs prior to the experience of
pain (achieving a 'neutral' quality at best).
therefore my response falls into two categorical types
of intentional death: concussion and intoxication.
concussion involves the incapacitation of nervous system
receptors prior to their activation (as in being at the
detonation point of a large bomb). intoxication includes
the administration of gaseous or liquid substances such
that pain is ameliorated by virtue of unconsciousness or
absent by virtue of life-threatening developments which
do not impact the nervous system.
in considering intentionally ending one's life I will
focus on means of suicide that SHOULD be commonly
available to the individual citizen in an enlightened
culture (projectile weapons, certain intoxicants), and
I may omit possibilities available to the privileged
and/or technically adept (e.g. nuclear weaponry).
Concussion
the easiest method of quickly incapacitating the nervous
system is through a debilitating impact to the brainstem.
this can be administered with a projectile weapon of
sufficient caliber (such as a shotgun) aimed at the
proper angle so as to disintegrate the head and end life
immediately. it does require that one overcome one's own
feelings of self-preservation or fear of self-inflicted
pain in order to aim and fire the weapon.
Intoxication
a self-administered dosage (by a 'Mercitron'-like
mechanism) of the substance used in killing unwanted pets,
unwanted or damaged work animals, or those humans who
have either been sentenced to die as a punishment for
their heinous behavior (murder, torture, etc.) or who
have requested assistance in dying (e.g. like those who
have terminal illnesses who have sought succor in the
assistance of Doctor Death, AKA Saint Kevorkian) is a
very valuable way to avoid pain at the time of death.
if more attention is paid to the QUALITY of the duration,
rather than merely avoidance of pain, then there may be
more pleasant ways of terminating one's life.
these include the self-administration of substances like
nitrous oxide (which displaces oxygen and produces euphoria)
or some more common recreational substance like heroin,
which, in sufficient quantity and composition can cause a
depressive reaction sufficient to kill while including the
euphoria that recreational users desire.
the best methods I've seen described so far are
somewhat messy. yet they can be taken to remote
locations (e.g. shotgun to the brain-stem in the
wilderness) and even protected with 'suicide scene
ahead, beware' signs for the truly insufferable
empath. the drive-yourself-hanging (probably
resulting in a decapitation and an auto crash)
seems pretty easy, physically, to arrange, and
might lead to some interesting sensations.
the classic desire is for a chemical that will
'put one to sleep' (which is what we do to pets
when they become inconvenient). I'm unaware of
any substance legally obtained which will achieve
this. barbiturates (as are suggested by authors
like Derek Hunphreys) work in combination with
a bag if done right, but even these may have
problems, as the Hemlock Society has made clear
by its postscript advocation of pillows on the
front flaps of the bags.
guns and falls appear to be the most certain
violent means. get a shotgun and aim at the
brainstem and even with a botched attempt if
we're far enough from civilized assistance
we'll die from blood loss. get atop a
communications tower (higher than most buildings
and far from pedestrians) and jump and we're unlikely
to survive it, especially if we rig piano wire to
lop off our heads at the outset.
Ideals
there are more risky and potentially pleasant means of
ending one's life that could also require study and a
careful preparation, if not participation from others
whose specialty is desirable.
many find the ecstasy of orgasm is attractive as a last
experience in their life. this could be combined with a
pill or injection of some kind to be self-administered
at a pre-determined moment so as to bring about cardiac
arrest or collapse into unconsciousness at the end of an
erotic fantasy funeral culminating in rapture and death.
it is this latter kind of intentional suicide (by whatever
standards of the individual) -- the kind which is exceedingly
pleasing and enjoyable to the person who has chosen to die --
rather than one which merely minimizes pain, that I am most
interested in making possible.
----------------------------------------------------------
RATINGS FORMAT IDEA
[to be integrated to each suggestion below and rated]
METHOD -- what the method is called
AVAILABILITY/ACCESS -- how easy it is to achieve
EXPERIENCE/SYMPTOMS -- what it will feel like
ability to induce loss of consciousness and death
without causing pain, distress, anxiety, or apprehension
DURATION (PAIN/DEATH) -- how long it will take to die
time required to induce unconsciousness
EFFICACY -- how sure we can be it'll work
age and body limitations
COLLATERAL DAMAGE -- what other damage might be done
DOSAGE/EQUIPMENT -- what items are needed
SKILLS/EXPERTISE -- what we need to know how to do
MYTHS/INACCURAIES -- false stories about it
----------------------------------------------------------
A. Ingestion/Injection/Inhalation
suicide through ingestion, injection, and inhalation
all depend on similar factors as regards efficiency:
the person effecting the method
body weight, age, physical condition, and skill in
assessment of the necessary dosage or substance to
achieve the desired result can vary tremendously.
heavier people may require greater quantities of
lethal substances to bring them down. the elderly
may be more prone to the snuff than the young and
vibrant body. ignorant and/or clumsy individuals
may administer the wrong dosage, use the wrong
delivery equipment or substance, and generally
botch the job. the sickly and terminally ill or
immuniologically-challenged may be more amenable
to depressive and/or toxic termination.
method of delivery
pills are one of the more simple methods available,
though they are tightly controlled in some countries
by government agencies. raw herbs or roots may be
readily available, though many of these will not
bring the type of painless suicide so many seek out.
chemical injections can be quite effective, though
again as with pills the chemicals may have to be
manufactured oneself or procured through a black
market source, and some degree of familiarity with
needles and the cardiovascular system is an asset
in this type of delivery. possible sources of
assistance where injections are concerned would be
organizations or services which assist diabetics
or homecare nursing. inhalants which displace
breathable oxygen has qualities such as pressure
and temperature which cannot be overlooked, nor
can its availability and quality.
agent of demise
besides knowing WHAT substance one is dealing
with, or the proper dosage, an entire range of
opportunity for error is raised when considering
the probable effects and whether they will lead to
death and in what manner of experience. substances
well-known for suicide such as alcohol or pills
such as valium in conjunction with alcohol are
manufactured in varying strengths, often provided
numbers to indicate this strength. pills are often
prescribed by doctors who may not even know the
actual lethal dosage, even in combination with other
ingestables. sometimes the dangers are EXAGGERATED
intentionally so as to make fewer suicide attempts
actually result in success. digestion can become
disrupted by some substances and combinations so
that vomitting may prevent the demise or becomes
the primary cause of death (choking on vomit
incapable of being expelled due to a depression of
bodily systems). substances introduced can lead
to serious debilitation without death, and the
pain of some substances, even while leading to
death, can become an inhibiting factor.
suicide disruption
because some of these methods are time-dependent
and may take awhile to come to fruition, there
is also the chance of interruption by well-
meaning but intrusive individuals who call in
authorities who take life-saving actions,
discontinue the administration of the agent in
question, or otherwise end the termination
process without the permission of the person who
had intended suicide. choosing a place and time
conducive to privacy and uninterrupted suicide
becomes integral to success, as does proper
preparation in the face of equipment failure,
the loss of potency of agents, and other
unforeseen complications.
----------------------------------------------------------
1. Chemicals
a. Antifreeze
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill)
Date: 30 Sep 1997 06:01:02 GMT
In article <19970930045700.AAA23984@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
twright603@aol.com (TWright603) says:
>60 minutes ran a story about antifreeze being mixed in
>children's cough medicine and killing them. Has any one
>heard of this as a suicide method? How quick would it
>be? Would it burn? Perhaps it could be mixed? It is
>supposed to taste quite sweet. Let me know your thoughts.
>I've also heard of mixing bleach and amonia in a toilet
>or bucket - the fumes can kill I'm told. Any truth? Thanks.
Mixing bleach and amonia is toxic but it would have to be
inhaled as a very concentrated gas... I guess. I didn't
die while using this mixture for cleaning, but somehow it
caused a gold ring on my finger to break like glass.
Antifreeze IS toxic when ingested, tastes sweet and doesn't
burn your mouth or throat... lower orifaces however may get
tender.
-----------------------------------------------------------
b. Cyanide
anonymous:
I've mentioned before that the cyanide constituent in
kernels of almonds, peaches, apples, cherries, and apricots
is not free hydrogen cyanide, which is a gas; rather, the
compound is amygdalin. It is cyanide bound safely to
benzaldehyde and glued shut with a couple of sugars.
(For a picture, look in the Merck Index, or visit
http://www.gov.sg/moh/mohiss/poison/pgamygdl.html )
As long as the molecule remains intact, it is harmless.
Strong acid should decompose the compound to release free
HCN, but I was wondering whether stomach acid is strong
enough. Turns out, it isn't. The neat thing about these
plant seeds is that the compound is packaged within them
separately from three enzymes that rapidly decompose
amygdalin. So when the seed is thoroughly crushed under
moist conditions, that is when HCN is released--an
effective defense against insect predators. A biologist
is studying how the enzymes are manufactured separately
from amygdalin and compartmentalized into different
tissues within black cherries....
Humans have bacteria in our gut that manufacture
beta-glucosidase, and to a degree this enzyme can act
to release HCN as well, but there are other enzymes
and processes that can act to transform HCN to the
harmless thiocyanate nearly as fast.
Amygdalin was given as a quack, heavily promoted cancer
treatment in the seventies. It was variously known as
Laetrile, and even passed off as Vitamin B17, which
ostensibly was a nutrient that would prevent one from
getting cancer. Now, this was purified amygdalin,
without the enzymes that would cause it to
spontaneously breakdown, so people could ingest gram
amounts daily without tremendous side-effects.
(The theory was that cancer cells would possess more
b-glucosidase than normal cells, so cyanide would
selectively kill them over normal cells; but these ideas
about the disparity or even presence of these enzymes
was shown to be simply not true. And there were
rigorous, double blind studies that demonstrated no
benefit to laetrile in the treatment of cancer.)
Lethal or near-lethal cyanide poisoning using laetrile
would usually involve ingestion of gram amounts of the
purified 'drug' along with a source of the hydrolyzing
enzymes. In one case, a man ate a lot of bitter
almonds one day. In another, a woman ate freshly
crushed apricot pits with her laetrile pills.
Most of the poisonings (except in children) were
nonlethal, and side-effects were severe and damage
occasionally permament. Laetrile is still available
in Mexico, and in fact I found a place on the web where
one could apparently order some, but they have a
screening process of sorts and depending on your
location may not be able to deliver.
------------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
> but then if what you say is true if we crush the seeds
> and eat them, the enzymes within the seeds themselves
> should activate to release the cyanic acid group.
Yep. In fact, if you eat the seeds, you will be
releasing some HCN. I like eating apple seeds because
the benzaldehyde that is released along with the HCN
has a pleasing almondy taste. ([omitted] suggested it
is rather like Dr. Pepper, and I think that's so.)
Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed
_and moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively,
find some way to harvest the gas.)
The issue is quantity. How much would you have to cram
into your stomach to get several grams of amygdalin?
And it's possible, too, that the enzymes won't work as
well once they're in the mildly acidic environment
of the stomach. About that I'm not sure. But if it
simply slowed down hydrolysis, the poisoning would be
time-released; excruciating, prolonged, and not
necessarily effective.
So yes, certainly a possible method. This would not
be my choice, though; I wouldn't even consider it.
------------------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
> Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed _and
> moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively, find some
> way to harvest the gas.)
on that point, i imagine a contraption: an industrial size,
airtight crushing device, where peach pits are compressed
and mixed in a small amount of water. maybe heated somewhat
above room temperature. this is connected to tubing that
bubbles through a solution of potassium hydroxide. when
the pH of the solution becomes neutral, there are the same
number of molecules KCN as there were KOH.
-----------------------------------------------------------
To: talk.euthanasia,alt.suicide.holiday
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (boboroshi/CoE)
Date: 13 Sep 1997 13:25:40 -0700
I was reading _The Big Book of Death_ this morning
(recommended!!!), from Factoid Books, 1995, and in the
chapter on Capital Punishment ('Capital Punishment,
It's a Gas') a comic panel read:
Deadly gas is released when cyanide pellets
are dropped into shallow pans of sulfuric
acid mixed with water.
and it goes on to describe the symptoms of cyanide
poisoning as including gasping, wheezing, thrashing,
screaming, crying, faces turning purple, tongues
sticking out, drooling, and that this doesn't
happen 'particularly fast'.
all in all I'd suggest it may not be a very
effective method of suicide (in the sense of
painless at least). and yet, what is the
comparative concentration of the 'gas chamber pellet'
to the crushed peach pit? what would the likely
differences be between inhaling and ingestion, where
death is concerned? are not the 'cyanide pills' used
for quick-acting deaths among spies?
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: Mackenzie
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:43:14 -0500
I just found this on a web page titled Biology & Medicine:
What's the poison in apple pips ?
Cyanide poisoning can occur if too many apple pips
are eaten (about a cupful has been known to kill
a man). Many fruit kernels (e.g. apricots) contain
cyanogenic glycosides, and without prolonged
boiling, enzymes may release hydrocyanic acid and
cause cyanide poisoning.
http://www.campus.bt.com/CampusWorld/pub/ScienceNet/->
database/Biology/9701/b00701d.html
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: thardisonNOSPAM@mindspring.com (Travis Hardison)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:03:04 -0600
>> I seem to remember that US pilots who flew over
>> Russia way back during the Cold War were given
>> cyanide capsules to kill themselves if captured by
>> the Rousskis. Gary Powers, whose spy plane was shot
>> down in the early 60s (how time flies), had one but
>> passed up the privilege. Anyway, my point is, those
>> capsule ought to be pretty useful. How does one get
>> hold of them? Or something similar?
>
> Take up photography. Cyanide is a needed chemical in
> some film processing techniques.
Or jewelry making, since cyanide is apparently used to
clean impurities from old gold (according to John
Sandford's 'Secret Prey', 1998, in which the criminal
steals a small bottle of the stuff from a jeweler - a
good book, too, BTW).
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: dmo777@my-dejanews.com
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:24:14 GMT
[re sodium cyanide]
> I sure do know that you don't just run down to
> your local chemical supply store and buy KCN.
> Often KCN suppliers will only sell to an
> established business with a bonafide need
> (i.e., a jewelry store). If they suspect you
> are not a legit business, they may even report
> you. They even know what to look for when
> dealing with a potentially suicidal person. So,
> unless you know a sure fire way to obtain the
> KCN, its efficacy may unfortunately be,
> irrelevant.
I have to disagree. I bought 1 oz of sodium
cyanide from a chemical supply house in Oreagan
back in 1995. All I had to do was sign a paper
saying i wasn't going to do anything illegel
with it and that I was 18. I could have bought
potassium cyanide for alittle bit more many.
The stuff was dirt cheap but it cost a fortune
to ship the stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: dmo777@my-dejanews.com
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 06:27:58 GMT
Sodium cyanide can kill in ammounts as small as
600 mg. It should work almost the same as Potassium
cyanide but i think the LD50 is alittle higher for
sodium cyanide.
----------------------------------------------------------
c. Potassium Chloride
To: alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Snidely F Whiplash"
Subject: Re: Potassium Chloride Injection
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:08:07 -0500
goingtodie:
> ...As far as my initial posting to this group
> asking about injecting potassium chloride,
> I've now just received my 20cc syringe w/needle
> ...so I think I've answered my basic question
> of what kind to use.
>
> ...saturated potassium chloride solution (31%)...
> 20cc ...my calculations...about 6.9 grams of
> potassium chloride, which should be more than
> sufficient....
I would like to quote the words of one who
attempted suicide by this method.
This was posted in early September, '99.
kryptonite7 wrote in message...
"If you are going to inject something to kill
yourself, it better be insulin, morphine,
phenobarbital or heroin, otherwise it could
be incredibly painful and not lethal. Yesterday
I injected potassium chloride (50mg/kg) and
it wasn't lethal but it burned like hell, now I
have blisters, my arm is swollen and the pain is
beyond belief. I have been taking dozens of
painkillers and valiums to ease the pain, BTW,
a valium OD won't kill you unless you take
1600 valium pills (the lethal dose). I just
found out that the lethal dose for potassium
chloride is 117mg/kg (that's a lot of potassium
chloride), but Kevorkian also uses sedatives
(barbiturates) and muscle relaxants before
injecting the potassium chloride, because it's
very painful and stings almost as if it was acid...."
Snidely again.
My response to Kryptonite7...
Potassium chloride (KCl) is very similar to
sodium chloride (NaCl) or common table salt.
KCl looks, smells and tastes like table
salt and is, in fact, used as a salt substitute.
If you've ever gotten salt in a skin wound (a
cut or scrape) you know it stings like crazy.
You exposed your vein (in effect, an open
wound) to a LOT of salt.
As to lethal doses, well, 117mg/kg can,
without question, be a lethal dose. But, under
proper circumstances, as little as 18 mg/kg
can be instantly lethal to a 75 kg (165) lb adult.
The key is getting it into the bloodstream
through a large vein (for instance, the one in
your neck, chest or groin) very rapidly, without
destroying that vein (the one in your arm
just isn't big enough). This is something
most people are not equipped to do at home.
The injection of potassium chloride, while it may
sound inviting (clean, quick), is just NOT
a very good method for unassisted suicide.
----------------------------------------------------------
2. Depressants
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: steward@netaxs.com (steward)
Subject: Re: experience vs. expert info (methods)
Date: 18 May 1999 00:54:00 GMT
> What if this had been the other way round? I mean,
> the difference between the "factual information"
> -- thousands of mgs -- and the
The focus in alt.suicide.holiday is on trying to
figure out the dosage that is likely to kill
just about -anyone-. The LD-50 is what is
believed will kill 50% of people who take it
(it's only tested on rats or mice usually).
So, if the focus of this group was poison
control, we'd probably refer to the LD-50 as
a "deadly dose", because, to be on the safe
side from the poison control point of view,
someone who had taken the LD-50 should be
brought to the emergency room *immediately*.
But, the focus -here- is on being -sure- of
dying, and 50% is damn low odds considering
the cost of failure. Thus, dosages quoted
here are often several times the LD-50 (as
toxicity often does not follow a straight line
for that last 20% or so). Remember, these are
dosages for people to die with, not the
maximum "safe" dose to self-medicate with.
When I post LD-50 information, I add the
following:
==
PS: LD-50 means the amount of drug
it took to kill 50% of the subject
group, usually mice or rats.
Doubling the dosage does not
necessarily make it 100%. mg/kg
means that for each kg that you
weigh (Americans: 1 kg = 2.2 lb)
you need that dose in mg; for
example if it were 2mg/kg and you
weighed 70kg you'd need 140 mg for
the LD-50. Note too that doubling
that amount does not ensure death.
People vary. People take six times
the lethal dose of something and
manage somehow to survive because
bodies differ.
Although LD-50 is the best measure
available, it does not necessarily
equate exactly to humans.
Unfortunately, human data is not
available because the FDA won't let
drug companies take a pool of 1200
or so humans and feed them a drug
until 600 are dead.
==
In the other direction of focus, however,
LD-50 is a damn risky dose to take if
you're -NOT- trying to die..
----------------------------------------------------------
a. Alcohol
To: private email
From: derez@yahoo.com (Deyan Reszka)
Date: 29 Mar 1998 14:54:28 -0500
RE 'vodka enema' method
Alcohol via enema is, depending who you ask,
3-6 times more potent than via mouth. Absorption is
fast, and, as you point out, vomiting is not an
effective recourse. Be careful in experimentation:
start with something like 1/6th of what you would
take via mouth, and try another dose only in a
seperate session after fully recovering from a
previous dose (at least 12 hours). Same for other
drugs administered rectally that would normally
be taken orally, such as caffeine, etc.
I gather that the short-term lethal effect of
alcohol overdose is caused by oxygen deprivation
as the body overworks trying to oxidize the alcohol.
Likely to be quite uncomfortable, even given the
slight anaesthetic effect. Also, hard alcohol would
create an agonizing burning sensation in the lower
intestine, which, along with the cramping, would
obviously make one quite miserable while waiting
for the effects. Note also that most people cannot
easily hold even 2 quarts of comfortable warm salted
water (osmosis balanced), much less an irritating
fluid, even with a bardex device (inflatable
backflow prevention).
----------------------------------------------------------
b. Heroin and other Controlled Substances
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: rorsch@senet.com.au (rorschach)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 06:11:57 GMT
>>Yummy. DH is a waste of time, get some street grade
>>smack. Much nicer way to go, if you don't get the
>>shit beat out of you procuring it.
>
> ...My objective is NOT to get high, you idiot.
>Also, the risk factors for procuring the smack are
>too high. Death from street smack is uncertain.
>Besides, I don't know where I would get it from.
Death from heroin is very certain if you inject enough
of it and (most importantly) are not 'rescued'.
Parameds just give you a shot of norcain? and all
effects of H disappear almost straight away. It can
be purchased in any bigish city. Good dealers are
quite used to transactions with professionals and
'straight' people but are quite expensive.
Of course it is a controlled substance and you will
be charged if caught by law enforcement so the risk
factor is quite high.
In high doses it kills by turning off the brain,
specifically the part of the brain that controls
breathing. It's NOT like asphyxiation, your body
doesn't cry out for air or anything it just forgets
that it needs to breathe and you just fade away. It
lower doses it doesn't turn off the brain so far,
just enough to make you forget external stimulii and
the world.
-----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals
From: White Spirit
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:32:53 +0000
> I have on hand about 1 gram of codeine (actually is
> 150 tablets of 375 mg Acetylsalicylic Acid with 8 mg
> Codeine.)
If you use the codeine dissolve the tablets in 2ml
water/tablet and pass the liquid through a coffee
filter. Keep the liquid and throw away the aspirin.
> According to info on a couple web pages, the
> combination of codeine and dimenhydrate can induce
> deep sedation. Is this reliable?
Only with a plastic bag. Codeine inhibits itself when
taken orally so is not the best method to use. Combine
the codeine and diphenhydramine with cyanide,
preferably straight into your veins, and then it should
hopefully be fairly painless.
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods
From: bye bye birdi
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:21:49 GMT
> i obtained quite a bit of valium and halcion from
> mexico. i figured that's probably as good as i can do
> since i can't get my hands on barbiturates. benzos
> are incredibly easy to get in mexico (of course i
> realize for some people that trip is out of the
> question). i don't think they're too tough to get
> from american docs either. as long as you're using
> the bag, you don't need a big supply - just enough to
> knock you out. if you can't get any benzos, then OTC
> sleeping pills might still work. i guess
> diphenhydramine would probably be the best of those.
> and alcohol always helps with any of these drugs.
-----------------------------------------------------------
c. Barbiturates and 'Sleeping Pills'
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Barbituric Acid Derivatives [injected]
Barbiturates depress the central nervous system in descending
order, beginning with the cerebral cortex, with unconsciousness
progressing to anesthesia. With an overdose, deep anesthesia
progresses to apnea, owing to depression of the respiratory
center, which is followed by cardiac arrest.
Barbiturates have rapid onset of action.... Desirable
barbiturates are those that are potent, long-acting, stable
in solution, and inexpensive. Sodium pentobarbital fits
these criteria and is most widely used, although others
such as secobarbital are acceptable.
A primary advantage of barbiturates is speed of action.
This effect depends on the dose, concentration, and rate
of injection. Barbiturates induce euthanasia smoothly,
with minimal discomfort to the animal....
Intravenous injection is necessary for best results,
necessitating trained personnel.... Current federal drug
regulations require strict accounting for the barbiturates
and these must be used under the supervision of personnel
registered with the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).
-------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jbentley
Date: 29 JAN 1996 05:52:27 -0500
I grabbed this out of a book called The Prediction
of Suicide by some lame psychiatrists, but I
thought this list was informative...
# Toxicity Chart: 30 Toxic Drugs Frequently Used
# in Suicide Attempts
#
# Key: 1000 milligrams (mg.) = 15 grains (gr.) = 1 gram (gm.)
#
# MLD = Minimum Lethal Dose
#
# Notes:
# 1. Special adjustments for scoring are found at the
# end of the chart.
# 2. If tablet strength is recorded, make sure the
# common dosage in column four corresponds with
# the strength ingested. dosage in column four
# corresponds with the strength ingested.
#
# Toxicity: Mild = 0-33% of MLD,
# Moderate = 34-66% of
# Severe = 67%+ of MLD
#
# Commonly Est MLD
# Available # of tablets
# Drug Est. MLD Doses at most
# common dosage
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Aspirin, Bufferin 5 gr. 90/5 gr.
# (acetylsalicylics) 30 gm. (.33 gm.)
# Anacin, Excedrin
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Amytal (anombarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/50 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Benadryl
# (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg.
# 47%Benadryl
# (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Butisol (butabarbital)1 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/30 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Carbrital
# (pentobarbital +) 1 gm. 75,100 mg. 10/100 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Darvon (propoxyphene) 2 gm. 30,65 mg. 30/65 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Demerol (meperidine) 1.2 gm. 50,100 mg. 24/50 mg.
# --------------------------------------------------------------
# Dilantin
# (diphenylhydantoin) 3 gm. 30,100 mg. 30/100 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Doriden (glutethimide) 8 gm. 250,500 mg. 16/500 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Dramamine
# (dimenhydrinate) 5 gm. 50 mg. 100/50 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Elavil (amitriptyline) 3 gm. 10,25,50 mg. 120/25 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Equanil, Miltown
# (meprobamate) 15 gm. 200,400 mg. 38/400 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Felsules
# (chloral Hydrate) 10 gm. 250,500 mg. 20/500 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Librium
# (chlordiaepoxide) 5 gm. 5,10,25 mg. 500/10 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Luminal (phenobarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,100 mg. 40/30 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Mellaril (thioridazine) 3 gm. 10,25,50,100
# 150,200 mg. 100/25 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Nembutal (pentobarbital) 1 gm 30,50,100 mg. 10/100 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Noludar (methyprylon) 5 gm. 50,200,300 mg. 17/300 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Nytol, Sominex
# (methapyrilene +) 3.5 gm. 25,50 mg. 140/25 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Percodan
# (dihydrophydroxy-codeinine)
# .5 gm. 4.5 mg. 125/4.5 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Placydil (ehtchlorvynol) 15 gm. 100,200,500 mg. 30/500 mg.
# ----------------------------------------------------------------
# Seconal (secobarbital) 1.5 gm. 30,50,100 mg. 15/100 mg.
# ----------------------------------------------------------------
# Seraz (oxazepam) 10 gm. 10,15,30 mg. 333/30 mg.
# ----------------------------------------------------------------
# Stelazine (trifluoperazine)
# 2.5 gm. 1,2,5,10 mg. 500/5 mg.
# ----------------------------------------------------------------
# Thorazine
# (chlorpromazine) 2.2 gm. 10,25,30,50,75,200 mg. 44/50 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Tofranil (imipramine) 2.5 mg. 10,25,50 mg. 100/25 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Tuinal
# (amo/secobarbital) 1.5 mg. 50,100,200 mg. 15/100 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Valium (diazepam) 8 gm. 2,5,10 mg. 1600/5 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Valmid (ethinamate) 15 gm. 500 mg. 30/500 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
# Veronal, Bs (barbital) 3 gm. 15,30,300 mg. 100/30 mg.
# ---------------------------------------------------------------
#
# Special Adjustments for Scoring:
# 1. When any ingestion is accompanied by ETOH
# (ethyl alchohol), increases the toxicity
# level by approx 50%
#
# 2. If it is established that a person is a
# regular drug user, then raise the number of
# milligrams for MLD by 33%
-----------------------------------------------------------------
anonymous source:
Interpharm
http://216.147.122.186/interpharm/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Marc
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:37:52 +0100
> >> Just curious, but how probable would a fatal OD
> >> be if you took too many barbituates or
> >> benzodiazepines? Alcohol increases the
> >> likelihood right?
>
> What about the benzos? How much is required?
If you want to do it with any benzo shit, just one
caution: if take them too slowly, there is a chance
that you soon will be so out of it that you won't
be able to (as in too stoned) to get round to
taking the rest. When I first tried to commit
suicide it involved diazepam (valium) and after a
while I was floating high among the clouds and
didn't remember a thing till I woke up in hospital
next morning.
From what I read in the methods file you'll need
alcohol as well (I think).
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Edmund E Ong
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:24:57 -0700
I took a look at "Final Exit", and according to the
author benzos are pretty unreliable without the
infamous plastic bag. The best way to go out with
drugs is through a fast-acting barbituate such as
Seconal or Nembutal. Phenobarbital is not as good
because it is slow-acting. The only problem is that
it is quite difficult to obtain a prescription for
Seconal/Nembutal...docs aren't stupid.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Cerkit [Breaker]"
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:34:07 -0700
> Can anyone provide information on caffeine overdose
> as a suicide method? The methods file says that a
> dosage of 20 grams is required; easy to get from
> wake-up pills. But it doesn't have any information
> on time, certainty, unpleasantness etc. Is this
> a good method?
I would think not. I've taken a few too many of those
pills before, just for fun, and I ended up passing
out in a puddle of my own vomit behind a movie
theatre. I was drunk and high at the time too, but
it was the caffeine that took me overboard; it was
one of the more unpleasant things I've experienced
physically.
-----------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
The way I managed to get some barbiturates (seconal)
was to call a psychiatrist and tell him that I was
in the process of looking for work and and was unable
to fall asleep the night before an interview due to
extreme anxiety which would then lead to my blowing
the interview. I had tried all of the milder
tranquilizers without effect and so needed something
really strong to knock me out on the night before an
interview. That way the shrink didn't have to worry
that I might become dependent on a barbiturate since
I'd only be taking it intermittently and for a short
term. I also told him that I had been prescribed
seconal for a similar purpose before and had taken it
very successfully for relief of short-term anxiety
without any problems but the doctor who prescribed it
had since moved his practice. The key to this approach
is not to reveal any clues to your underlying
suicidal ideation and present yourself as having no
major psychological problems other than short-term
situational anxiety. The first two shrinks I called
with this approach were both willing to prescribe it
to me. I don't plan to use my stash in the near
future but felt a desperate need to have the option
available if and when I choose use it.
-------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: und@eab.le (Ludolf Wittgenplastic)
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:34:11 GMT
...Some twelve years ago, I tried to off myself....
I decided to OD on psychopharmakons.
I was fucking scared though, but reasoned that I could
back out any time. Funny thing was, after swallowing
some 20 of these, all fear vanished, and the only
thing I felt was an immense joy to finally get over
with it -- and I quickly gulped down the rest of
the 100 or so.
What I didn't realize was that you can literally
swallow thousands of those without dying. Anyway,
YMMV but I've found these pills (they were meant to
fight depression and anxiety in the first place)
extremely potent to overcome the survival instinct.
If your brain works like mine, you won't give a damn.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.finals
From: xoticsrus@aol.comjnkbgone (Xoticsr us)
Date: 6 May 1999 14:24:38 GMT
> Does anybody know the quickest most painless and
> most likely to happen mehtod of suicide? I have
> heard that carbon monoxide poisoning will work.
> Anybody have any way of getting sleeping pills?
Strange. That is the most commonly asked question
on this newsgroup.
I understand the carbon monoxide method is the
easiest and least painful. Beware of the overdose
route. If you fail, you get the pleasure of having
your stomach pumped. That's enough to dissuade
almost anyone from trying that route again (myself
not included). It took three failures for me to
decide I needed to find a better method.
---------------------------------------------------
3. Carbon Monoxide (CO)
from http://www.csia.org/home/cohazard.htm
WHAT IS CARBON MONOXIDE?
...carbon monoxide is a very dangerous, colorless,
odorless gas....
WHAT CARBON MONOXIDE DOES TO YOU
Too much carbon monoxide in your blood will kill you.
...low-level exposure to this gas also endangers your
health.
...given a choice between carbon monoxide and oxygen,
the protein hemoglobin in our blood will always latch
on to carbon monoxide and ignore the life-giving
oxygen. Because of this natural chemical affinity,
our bodies - in effect - replace oxygen with carbon
monoxide in our bloodstream, causing greater or lesser
levels of cell suffocation depending on the intensity
and duration of exposure.
The side-effects that can result from this low-level
exposure include permanent organ and brain damage.
Infants and the elderly are more susceptible than
healthy adults, as are those with anemia or heart disease.
-----------------------------------------------------------
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Carbon Monoxide
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless gas that is
nonflammable and nonexplosive until concentrations exceed
10%. It combines with hemoglobin to form
carboxyhemoglobin and blocks the uptake of oxygen by
erythrocytes, leading to fatal hypoxemia.
In people, the most common symptoms of early CO toxicosis
are headache, dizziness, and weakness. As concentrations of
carboxyhemoglobin increase, these signs may be followed by
decreased visual acuity, tinnitus, nausea, progressive
depression, confusion, and collapse. Because CO
stimulates motor centers in the brain, unconsciousness may
be accompanied by convulsions and muscular spasms.
Carbon monoxide is a cumulative poison. Distinct signs of CO
toxicosis are not evident until the concentration is 0.05% in
air, and acute signs do not develop until the concentration is
approximately 0.2%. In human beings, exposure to 0.32% CO and
0.45% CO for one hour will induce unconsciousness and death,
respectively....
In the past, mass euthanasia has been accomplished by using
three methods for generating CO: (1) chemical interaction of
sodium formate and sulfuric acid; (2) exhaust fumes from idling
gasoline internal combustion engines; and (3) commercially
compressed CO in cylinders. The first two techniques are
associated with a number of problems, such as production of
other gases, inadequate concentrations of carbon monoxide
achieved, inadequate cooling of the gas, and maintenance of
the equipment; therefore, the only recommended source is
compressed CO in cylinders.
Carbon monoxide induces unconsciousness without pain and
with minimal discernible discomfort. Hypoxemia induced
by CO is insidious, so that the animal appears to be
unaware. (3) Death occurs rapidly if concentrations of
4-6% are used.
Any electrical equipment exposed to CO (eg, lights and
fans) must be explosion proof.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Shddemon@cris.com (SHADOWDEMON)
Date: 19 Jun 1997 09:14:00 GMT
6 hours MIGHT be enough time; do you have a catyltic
converter? What about fuel injection? Either one of
those and you won't die that quickley, & will probably
have a pretty painful throbbing headache.
Basically, if your car passed the emissions test,
you won't die. If you can't get to a hyperbaric
chamber afterwords, you WILL recieve permanant brain
damage (you might anyway, but probably not as much
if you get treatment)
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: tagtraeumer
Date: 3 Sep 1997 16:33:02 -0000
>Is it true that if you lock yourself in the garage
>with the car engine turned on, sooner or later you
>will die of carbon monixide poisoning?
Depends on your car... best if you have an old
junker. Buy a carbon monoxide detector (not a
cheap one that can only beep) You need a handheld
device with digital scale. Search for "co-detector"
on
http://www.altavista.com
You must maintain a concentration of at least
0.5% (5000ppm) carbon monoxide in the air. The
side effects of CO poisoning include headache and
vomiting, so take some painkillers and travel
sickness pills before.
If you fail, you could end up brain damaged.
-----------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
...newer cars have a much lower ratio and this makes
death far less likely. I imagine one either has to
get an older car or disable to the catalytic converter
in some way. however, there are other kinds of motors
which emit CO, such as those of lawn mowers, boat
engines, blower engines and the like, and even the
very low-burning fire (hibachi) may do the trick.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: ichi@earthling.net (Ichimusai)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:25:26 GMT
A neighbour a couple of houses just down the road
killed himself about two weeks ago with the exact
method. That was a quite new car (last years model)
german Audi. So it did work.
So what was wrong? Did he use old gas? Are Audi
cars not keeping up with technology?
-------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
...garden hoses may not be equipped to deliver a
continuous supply from the exhaust pipe because
they are not designed for very hot gases. I don't
know if this is true. the recommendation was made
that automotive stores may have specially-designed
hoses to carry the CO outside while working in
one's enclosed garage. if so, then this may prove
to be a perfect solution to that. ...special heat-
resistant tape may be important in securing the
hose to the exhaust pipe, else it may melt off
before death occurs.
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Doug Jacobson"
Subject: Carbon Monoxide (CO) Poisoning As a Method of Suicide.
Date: 29 Jun 98 22:38:51 -0400
Carbon Monoxide (CO) Poisoning As a Method of Suicide.
The following information reflects material I have
researched from a variety of sources. Many of the
web-based sources are referenced by their URL at the
end of this document.
Part One: Life, Death and Gas
By the time we reached fifth grade we all knew that
animal life depends upon oxygen. When we lose the
availability of oxygen we asphyxiate. Common methods
of asphyxia include drowning, strangulation, obstructed
airways, etc. Asphyxia can also be caused by the
absence of oxygen in an environment where we are free
to breathe, inside a plastic bag, for example. When
we learned that we needed oxygen to survive we also
learned that we produce carbon dioxide (CO2) as a
waste product. The body is very sensitive to high
levels of CO2 and when present will begin an
involuntary reaction that includes panic and
increased rate of breathing. You can try this with a
plastic bag over your head. In a minute or two you
will become acutely aware that you need to breathe
fresh air, even though you have yet to experience
oxygen deprivation, your body has become aware of the
high levels of CO2 and is automatically alerting you
to seek fresher air.
Sometimes gases can replace oxygen and induce death
without causing a CO2 panic reaction. Some of these
gases are bioreactive gases and some are innocuous
gases.
Innocuous gases, such as nitrogen (which makes up
about 70% of the atmosphere) do not cause the
asphyxia panic that CO2 does. Replacing oxygen with
nitrogen will cause death, but I do not know much
about this.
Some bioreactive gases, such as nitrous oxide (NO),
produce specific reactions that are well perceived
at the time of poisoning. NO is widely used as
an analgesic in dentistry, it is commonly known as
laughing gas. It produces a sense of euphoria and
it can easily be lethal. Another gas that is
bioreactive is Carbon Monoxide (CO). CO is
commonly available, easily produced, colorless,
tasteless and odorless. It can produce some
vague, flu-like symptoms before causing death. The
order of symptoms that might occur as someone dies
of CO poisoning are:
Headache
Dizziness
Upset Stomach
Clumsiness
Drowsiness
Brain Damage
Death
Part Two: carbon Monoxide and Suicide:
The three principle advantages for CO poisoning for
the suicide are:
Availability
Lack of discomfort
Speed
Carbon monoxide is produced when anything
---ANYTHING--- is burned incompletely. (Virtually
all combustion is incomplete, so it safe to safe that
anytime you burn anything you produce CO.) The most
common sources of accidental and suicidal deaths by
CO are automobiles and furnaces/hot water heaters,
but CO can be used for suicide wherever there is (1)
combustion and (2) a contained area in which to
collect the CO. Other sources of CO that have caused
poison deaths are fireplaces, gas clothes dryers, ovens,
stoves, space heaters, braziers, charcoal briquettes, etc.
CO is heavier than other gases normally found in our
atmosphere or as products of combustion. Thus,
given that all gases are at the same temperature and
pressure, CO will collect at the bottom of a container.
If that container, a room for example, leaks at the
bottom CO will be the gas most likely to leak out. If
that room leaks (or is vented) at the top, other gases
will leak out allowing a quicker and higher
concentration of CO to accumulate.
Concentrations of CO of 800 parts per million (ppm)
can be lethal after three hours. At 6,400 ppm death
occurs within 30 minutes or less. CO is better than
oxygen at binding with the hemoglobin in our red
blood cells. When CO and Hemoglobin combine they
produce carboxyhemoglobin. This has a half life of
five hours and concentrations of about 50% (half of
the hemoglobin is bound up as carboxyhemoglobin)
produce death. So, in a low concentration of CO,
where less than 15% of the hemoglobin becomes bound to
CO each hour, lethal levels are still reached within
five hours since it takes so long for the
carboxyhemoglobin to leave the system.
Part Three: Choosing a Source for CO:
Your best bet for producing lethal levels of CO
might be burning a charcoal grill in a well
insulated garage or room. Start it out-of-doors and
burn it till you have a good bed of glowing coals.
Then move it indoors and close up the space.
I have constructed a diverter for the flue from
my hot water heater so that it will vent into my
living room. My hot water heater burns natural gas
which produces a pleasant (for me) smelling
exhaust and I can use this method to die inside my
home with only a small risk of a fire.
Automobiles (or any devices with gas or diesel
engines) produce adequate quantities of CO.
Diverting the exhaust into the passenger cabin of
a car gives one the opportunity to die in any
variety of places, including a favorite scenic
lookout, without putting others at risk. Since
1975 in the US, and 1993 in the UK, passenger
cars have been equipped with required catalytic
converters. The goal is to reduce the emission
of CO, oxides of nitrogen and unburned hydrocarbons.
Depending upon the car, this is accomplished by
balancing the tuning of the carburation, use of
catalysts in the catalytic converter and injection
of oxygen into the exhaust. The effectiveness of
this system depends upon the car being well tuned
and the oxygen sensor being in good working order.
Increasing the carburetor mixture to "rich" or
applying choke by operating a manual choke or by
defeating the automatic choke, will increase the
amount of CO in the exhaust. Defeating the oxygen
sensor (which is designed to fail at 50,000 miles)
or removing the catalytic converter will also
increase the CO content. In any event, a well-
tuned car with emissions controls in place will
still produce adequate levels of CO to cause
death, but it will take longer. When piping auto
exhaust into a closed auto cabin the floor vents
should be closed and the windows should be slightly
open. A cold engine will always produce a higher
concentration of CO than a hot engine.
Whatever method you choose it should be easy to
predict the length of time it takes to produce and
collect a lethal level of CO. You can use CO
detectors (with digital readouts), readily available
at any hardware or home supply store, to measure
the level of CO accumulated over a period of time
and the rate of increase. It is then easy to
extrapolate how long it will take to build up to
the concentration you desire.
Accessories for Death by CO Poisoning
In about half the cases of suicide by CO (in
automobiles) it was determined that alcohol
and/or drugs were present. You may be able to
predict, but you will hardly be sure, how long
it will take before you become unconscious.
During that time there may be other exhaust
fumes, humidity or warm temperatures. It
seems to make sense to have some drinks, drugs,
music, etc. available for the minutes it will
take to become unaware.
Reference URL's:
http://www.freenet.msp.mn.us/people/guestb/pubed/cofaq.html
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm
http://www.sencosensors.com/
http://www.nsc.org/ehc/indoor/mse.htm
http://www.epa.gov/OMSWWW/03-co.htm
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm
----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards)
Date: 6 Jul 1997 08:36:38 GMT
> Hi, on the night of July 3rd, I attempted to kill
> myself by carbon monoxide poisoning. I skipped
> work that day, and bought the garden hose, duct
> tape, sleeping pills called "Unisom SleepGels",
> and filled the gas tank to my crappy '81 Mazda 626.
1) Garden hose is too small diameter to be effective,
and also will melt at high temperatures.
2) Duct tape also melts.
3) Unisom is barely effective as a sleep aid.
Next time, stop in at your local auto supply store,
ask for muffler mending tape and a 5' flexible hose
for same. If they ask, tell them you work on your
car in your garage and don't want CO poisoning :-)
> I parked behind an abandoned building where a
> grocery supermarket once was and popped 5 of
> those pills. It said one would be good enough...
> but i didn't start feeling drowsy until like 30-45
> mins later...
FIVE? Just five pills isn't much of an attempt :-)
And you forgot the requisite bottle of scotch,
as found at all the best suicide scenes.
>so I started up the engine and I guess I fell asleep.
>I think about 10 mins later, I woke up because my
>toes and my fingers started to tingle.
This is a known side effect. Here's where the alcohol
comes in -- if you've ever gotten even close to drunk,
you know that booze makes your skin numb == no tingling.
>The feeling bothered me (I was hoping to be passed
>out so I wouldn't have to feel it in the first place)
>so that frightened me and I turned the ignition off.
>Yeah, I chickened out.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
> Good thing though....my brother is a diabetic.
> So I'm gonna try
Not very nice for your brother.
> injecting the insulin into my system on Sunday night
> so I could die in my sleep or supposedly when my
> family believes I'm sleeping. Unfortunately my
> brother won't have any in the morning to use for his
> daily shots.
If you have access to his needles, there's plenty else
you can inject for a faster demise, and less guilt (or
risk from lack of insulin) for the brother.
> But anyways...my suggestion for CO poisoning...do
> anything you can to get passed out so in case that
> tingling feeling in your toes and fingers bother
> you like it did to me...you won't be conscious to
> feel it and then quit with the whole procedure.
The methods file doesn't have much on CO right now,
this would be a good addition. It's also been
mentioned here that modern gasoline and catalytic
converters don't send much CO out the tailpile these
days.
> I'm sure a lot of people are gonna poke fun at
> this post...you can if you want...it's not going
> to hurt my feelings :)
---------------------------------------------------
from http://www.ps.ex.state.ut.us/sc/co.htm
The Invisible Threat . . . Carbon Monoxide (CO) is
an odorless, colorless and tasteless gas that can
find its way into your home through a number of
common sources:
* Malfunctioning Furnace
* Cars left running in a garage or other closed area
* Grills, Hibachis and other fuel burning appliances
* Fireplaces or clogged chimneys
* Improperly installed gas ranges or vents
Unlike smoke or heat from a fire, carbon monoxide is
truly invisible-and extremely dangerous.
...high-quality Carbon Monoxide detector.
...Nighthawk detectors have been ranked #1 in quality,
accuracy and low false alarm rates by a leading consumer
magazine....
These models come equipped with the following
user-friendly features:
* Easy installation on any standard wall outlet
* Loud 85-decibel alarm instantly alerts you
when CO levels become dangerously high
* Advanced long-life, state-of-the-art carbon
monoxide sensor never needs replacement
* No re-calibration needed
* Full five-year warranty
...With an easy-to-read digital display, this model
will instantly alert you to life-threatening levels
in your home.... You can determine if you have a
small problem, whether levels are increasing, or
if you're in a life-threatening situation. This
model also has a sophisticated memory feature (the
only one on the market) that records the highest
level of carbon monoxide present since the last
time the unit was reset. This will help you gauge
carbon monoxide levels when you're sleeping or
away from home.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: dot@interactive.no.spam.net (DL)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:50:41 -0500
> Modern cars burn gas more efficiently too, creating less
> CO. I'm looking at a bbq in a small sealed room with a
> regular dose of sleeping pills and a little alcohol.
> Still looking for a qualified opinion though. If you ever
> get an answer on good CO production, post it or email me
> please....
You can produce CO by mixing limestone chips (from a garden
supply store) with some kind of acid, but I forget the acid.
Anyone have a chemistry textbook?
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods
From: "The CrapHead!"
Date: 12 Jan 98 15:23:34 -0100
> Now, any chemists out there who know how to rig a CO
> generator from household chemicals?
The two easiest ways to make CO are:
1. Add formic acid to hot concentrated sulfuric acid.
2. Heat a mixture of calsiumcarbonate and zink.
Method 1:
The sulfuric acid removes H2O from the formic acid, leaving
CO-gas.
HCOOH -> H2O + CO
To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 46g of formic acid
(assuming complete reaction) and at least 100g of
concentrated sulfuric acid. As the sulfuric acid is
dilluted by the water created by the reaction, you need
more than 100g of sulfuric acid, so the reaction doesn't
stop. The formic acid and sulfuric acid should be
concentrated to speed up the reaction.
Method 2:
The calsiumcarbonate reacts with the zink, giving
calsiumoxide, zinkoxide and CO-gas.
CaCO3 + Zn -> CaO + ZnO + CO
To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 100g CaCO3 and
65.3g Zn (assuming complete reaction). The zink and
calsiumcarbonate should be finely powdered and well mixed
to speed up the reaction.
One mole of gas fills up 22.4 cubic decimeters (=22.4
litres). You you should have a concentration of at
least 1% CO in the air to kill yourself. It's probably
a good idea to collect the CO in a bag. Just make sure
you don't have too much leakage.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "not sleepy"
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:38:49 +0100
>> I also wonder how death comes about this way,
>> and if there are any other aids one should
>> use (sleeping pills, alcohol, you-name-what).
>
>Dunno - sleeping pills might help to take you out first.
>
>> Am I going to slowly loose consciousness?
>
>Yup, I think so.
>
>> Or will I chicken out due to heavy coughing and
>> choking?
>
>This is what I wonder about car exhausts...
There is an extract in Geo Stone's book [see later
in this guide], merits and accuracies discussed
elsewhere, regarding the finale during CO suicide.
It is the translation of a note written by a
Japanese suicide while their car was filling with
carbon monoxide and credited as being extracted from
"Suicidal Carbon Monoxide Inhalation of Exhaust Fumes,
Investigation of Cases" by S Tsunenari, et al as
originally published in The American Journal of
Forensic Medicine and Pathology 6(3) (September 1985):
233-39.
"{At 6:15pm} The inhalation of exhaust gasses is begun.
{After seven minutes} My eyes and throat are slightly
irritated. Put on a bathing towel. There are tremendous
water drops on the door glass. The tank is full of
gasoline.
{After eight and a half minutes} Slight shortness of
breath. Ha-ha-ha. The powers of Nissan's engines
are great!
{After ten minutes} Swallowed a cup of sake. I could
not control myself to stay in the cabin {of the
mini-van} at this level of shortness-of-breath
yesterday.
{After eleven minutes} To the mistress of a grocery
store; "Yes, you were right. The size of this hose,
30mm in outer diameter and 25mm in inner diameter,
fits the exhaust pipe perfectly.
{After twelve and a half minutes} Swallowed another
cup of sake. I wish I could have a can of beer. I
wonder what the concentration of carbon monoxide
is now.
{After fourteen minutes} Breathing can only be
done by mouth.
{After fifteen minutes} Water is pouring out of
the hose.
{After sixteen minutes} Goodbye, Mum and Papa! {and
a list of six people}.
{After seventeen minutes} Still I am living. It is
asthmatic breathing. Now, I will sleep.
This was the last entry."
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "L Williamson"
Subject: Re: CO and catalytic converters
Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:24:03 GMT
> An article in The Times (UK) 17 June 1998.....
> I'll paraphrase, with inserted comments as appropriate:
>
> "Catalytic converters reduce car suicides
>
> The growing use of cat. converters in car exhaust
> systems has led to a sharp decline in suicide rates
> among men in the 1990s,
> One of the authors said she believed
> that the introduction of cats
> had led to the biggest change in British suicide
> patterns since the replacement of poisonous coal
> gas with non-toxic natural gas
> in the 1970s, which was also followed by a
> substantial drop in the number of suicides."
>
> ..................................................
>
> Well, despite the article's shaky scientific
> postulating, this gives an interesting twist to
> the debate about whether or not CO emissions are
> reduced from cars with catalytic converters;
> several posters in the past have indicated that
> cats merely reduce other emissions, and that CO is
> still at the same level whether it be a new car
> or an old one.
>
> Has anyone out there any information on this?
> Is the article actually misleading us (by acting
> as Nanny-State arbiter in our own best interests,
> of course!)?
>
> Interesting also that it seems to be a male thing.
Statistically more men than women have cars at
younger ages. That is why my insurance was crippling
when I first started to drive.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: hermotimus
Subject: Re: CO and catalytic converters
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:55:24 -0500
...As to getting around the catalytic convert:
can't you destroy the effectivnessof the catalyst
by putting leaded gasoline in the car? The nozzles
for regular leaded gas won't fit in the fuel intake
(in the U.S., at least), but it is easy enough to
buy a gas can and fill 'er up a few times.
Or, another easy method: Put the car on jacks;
crawl under with a hacksaw or pipe-cutter, and saw
through the exhaust just ahead of the catalytic
converter (it's roughly square, ahead of the muffler).
Of course, it's *illegal* to bypass your car's
emissions-control system, but.....
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Doug Jacobson"
Subject: Carbon Monoxide, Catalytic Converters and Humble Pie
Date: 19 Jun 98 11:16:55 -0400
It's time for me to eat some humble pie. After my
many adamant statements that catalytic converters do
NOTHING to reduce emissions of carbon monoxide, I have
found two sources that contradict that assertion.
Catalytic Converters became mandatory on US cars
begining with the 1975 model year and UK cars with
the 1993 model year.
The first source is from the US Environmental
Protection Administration. On the link (below) they
explain the goal of reducing CO emissions from autos
by catalytic converters. They state that "Today's
passenger cars are capable of emitting 90 percent
less carbon monoxide over their lifetimes than their
uncontrolled counterparts of the 1960's." Sounds like
they're doing something there, huh? Let me explain.
Over the projected life of a modern car the total CO
produced may be a little more than half the total CO
produced a 1960's car.
What does this have to do with catalytic converters?
First check the EPA site, then I'll direct you to a
more specific and detailed site.
http://www.epa.gov/OMSWWW/03-co.htm
Wayne State University School of Medicine has a site
called the Carbon Monoxide Headquarters. It's a very
informative site, here's the address for the home page:
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm
Following the links from the home page will give you
information such as, US vehicles with catalytic
converters produce about the same amount of CO exhaust
before a tune up as vehicles without catalytic
converters produce after a tune up.
This link shows just how long it takes to develop
lethal levels of CO in vehicles with catalytic
converters. Depending upon the efficiency of the
combustion it takes up to 16 minutes. There are
many variables, check out the site:
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm
and they have a very pretty picture illustrating CO
concentrations in cars, when used for suicide at this site:
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm
You can also follow links from the home page for
informtion on charcoal briquets (much more lethal
than I would have guessed) and other sources of CO.
To sum up, I WAS WRONG, I was wrong when I said
that catalytic converters are not designed to reduce
carbon monoxide emissions, but CO from car exhaust is
an effective means of committing suicide. Running the
engine out of tune, defeating the oxygen sensor,
setting the choke to "on", making the fuel/air mixture
richer, using this method during cold or moist weather
or just waiting a few extra minutes will all
compensate for the marginal effect of the catalytic
converter.
In my defense, I will say that NONE of the sites I
found by searching "catalytic converters" said that
they reduce anything but oxides of nitrogen, but I
apologize to all for my prior, innacurate postings.
I do feel bad about giving out innaccurate
information and I will try and do more research on
defeating the oxygen sensor and adjusting the mix in
vehicles with fuel injection.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Doug Jacobson"
Subject: Re: Cars and CO
Date: 20 Jun 98 19:43:08 -0400
On Sat, Jun 20, 1998 6:54 PM, fader68@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
> Would a '95 Civic Lx create a sufficient amount of CO, if
> the exhaust were directed into the car or a small room?
>
> If not, what make/model would?
Any car would produce the necessary CO, the only
question is how long would it take. You can speed
it up by making the mixture richer and by
defeating the oxygen sensor.
An easy way to test things is by buying a $30
carbon monoxide detector and reading the
documentation to see what concentration it alerts at.
Test your system, wait for the alert, then do the
math to figure how long it would take you to get to
the desired level.
Here are some links you can use to compute lethal
levels, the bottom line is that a concentration of
6400 parts per million will kill in 25 minutes.
You might also consider other sources of CO.
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/co1.htm
http://www.freenet.msp.mn.us/people/guestb/pubed/cofaq.html
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide3.htm
http://www.phymac.med.wayne.edu/FacultyProfile/penney/COHQ/COMotoVeh/cosuicide2.htm
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods
From: Noyen
Subject: Re: CO poisoning from Coleman stove?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:30:34 GMT
> Would it be possible to achieve lethal carbon
> monoxide concentrations using a propane
> camping stove inside of a small tent or closet?
Propane burns too clean. It would take quite a
while to build up sufficient CO. May I suggest
a Hibachi grill, with charcoal brouquets? That
will work very fasy.
The more air tight the better. Tent may not work.
Closet may get hot. Try a small outdoor shed, a
large car, or a small camper.
---------------------------------------------------
B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION
1. Constriction
a. Leather Strap
b. Rope
c. Wire
---------------------------------------------------
2. Oxygen Displacement
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill)
Date: 23 Aug 1997 07:40:44 GMT
>>can someone tell me where to get a mask (for
>>connection to nitrogen tank)?
In California I lived near a medical supply store.
They sold oxygen tanks and I suppose would include
masks of different types. Want a free one? They look
like a baseball cup with a few slight modifications.
Even for the final act I'd get a new one... You
could also cut a gallon plastic milk jug diagonally
across the corner and tape your hose to it and
around your head.
------------------------------------------------------
a. Ether
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Ether has high solubility in blood and induces
anesthesia slowly, is irritating to the eyes and nose, and
poses serious risks associated with its flammability.
Ether is flammable and explosive and should not be used
near an open flame or other ignition sources. Explosions
have occurred when animals, euthanatized with ether,
were placed in an ordinary (not explosion proof)
refrigerator or freezer and when bagged animals were
placed in an incinerator.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alc.suicide,alt.suicide.finals,alt.suicide.holiday
From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards)
Date: 7 Sep 1997 06:57:03 GMT
>>I am pretty sure that If done correctly that this
>>would be a very easy any Painless way to Go Out.
>>I have done some experimenting with it and I Think
>>that it will work quite well. All that is needed
>>is a plastic bag the size of a tall kitchen trash
>>bag or a little larger, A large Rubber Band ( one
>>that is big enough to go over your head but still
>>be fairly tight around your neck), and a can of
>>engine starting fluid (Ether).
How pure is the ether in "engine starting fluid"?
I would not be suprised if it was adulterated to
prevent 'huffing'.
>>The Rubber Band is Placed around the openong of
>>the plastic bag. With the band in place around
>>the opening of the bag. Squrt a fairly large
>>quantity of the ether into the bag.
You might consider soaking the ether into a rag
rather than just pouring it on to the bag.
Also consider that ether is a powerful solvent-
it'd be pretty shitty to wake up with a bad
headache and a plastic bag permanently melted on
to your face and hair.
>> I would prefer to be lieing down dressed as I
>>would like to be found. Then Simply slip the
>>either filled bag over my head. I beleive that
>>the either will put you to sleep rather quickly.
>>And once I am asleep, I will suffocate probably
>>without even feeling it.?? Comments Please.!!
>Yes.
>
>For one thing, your way will not be painless.
Says you.
Ether was routinely used for anethesia until the
LONG TERM dangers became known. If it can keep you
from noticing that your leg is being sawn off, It
should be just fine for keeping you from noticing
that you are permanently out of oxygen.
>First, the ether will corrode your nose walls,
>eyes and lungs.
>Second, you wont fall asleep before you suffocate.
Why don't you grab a can of ether and some plastic
bags, then report back to us?
>Third, you wont suffocate. You will drown as your
>auto-neuro-systems force your lungs to breathe
>the ether.
True. Perhaps he needs a bigger bag?
>Fourth, yor body wont look too good. Bloated,
>swollen, and with a horrible twisted grin on your face.
Dead bodies seldom do 'look to good' (unless you are
a necrophiliac?), the original author didn't ask if
this was a method to prodoce a pretty corpse, he asked
if it would be _effective_.
-----------------------------------------------------
b. Nitrogen/Helium (Inert Gasses)
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Tim DeLaney
Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2.
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 21:51:20 -0400
The subject of physiological effects of inert gases
has come up. Accidents in the industry that I have
read about suggest that breathing pure nitrogen leads
to extremely rapid unconsciousness. One or two
breaths effectively purge all the oxygen out of the
lungs, and the victim doesn't have time to react.
There are probably no warning symptoms, as nitrogen
has no physiological effects of its own.
One story is that a man entered a large nitrogen tank
to clean it, not knowing that it had not been purged
with air. He collapsed immediately, and his brother
(a fellow worker) attempted to rescue him. Both were
found dead of anoxia.
I would think that death from nitrogen inhalation
would be quick (5-10 min), painless, and uneventful.
(No convulsions, no gasping for air, etc). Obviously,
I haven't tried it, so I can't say for sure. Helium
and argon would be expected to have very similar
effects.
-----------------------------------------------------
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm:
Nitrogen (N2) [is a] colorless, odorless [gas] that [is]
inert, nonflammable, and nonexplosive. Nitrogen comprises
78% of atmospheric air....
Euthanasia is induced by placing the animal in a closed
container into which N2 ...is rapidly introduced or
prefilled at atmospheric pressure. Nitrogen... displaces
oxygen in the container, thus inducing death by hypoxemia.
With N2 flowing at a rate of 39% of chamber volume per minute,
rats collapsed in approximately 3 minutes and stopped breathing
in 5 to 6 minutes. Regardless of flow rate, signs of panic and
distress were evident before the rats collapsed and died.
...Quine ...addressed the issue of distress associated with
exposure to N2 by removing cats and dogs from the chamber
following unconsciousness and allowing them to recover.
When these animals were put back into the chamber, they did
not appear afraid or apprehensive.
Nitrogen [is] readily available as [a] compressed [gas].
Unconsciousness is preceded by hypoxemia and ventilatory
stimulation, which may be distressing....
--------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Randy
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500
> What exactly is the nitrogen tent method?
...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit
there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs,
preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold
your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and
die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious.
I've heard it's rather pleasant.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: puck31066@aol.com (Puck31066)
Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:57:13 GMT
>...I have a preferred method, inert gas, but I'm
>not sure how I can get hold of a bottle of N2
>(liquid or gas). Any suggestions? Failing that
>I may try He instead but I'm not sure how to
>handle such a gas. Comments?
also my preferred method. any welding supply store.
get the 250 cu ft tank.
--------------------------------------------------
From: anonymous
Intro
-----
Method : asphyxiation by inert gas (helium)
Certainty : Fairly certain if not 'saved' and you don't
chicken out
Cost : about #100 (sterling)
Obtaining the Helium
--------------------
Pick up the yellow pages, look under 'P' for party
supplies, ring up some party shops and ask how to
obtain helium for filling balloons. Most shops will
apologise and say "sorry we don't spply it, try the
partysmells shop on such and such a road..."
Ringing up is preferable to a personal visit for reasons
a) If you are a nervous sort of person like me, then a
phone is much better tham a personal call from a
"nobody knows who I am" point of view.
b) You will find that most party shops don't supply
helium, so it's a good idea to ring around.
When you find a shop that can supply the helium,
they'll ask if you want,
a) A cannister for about 20 balloons,
b) A tank of gas for about 200 balloons
Naturally we'll plump for b).
The gas itself will cost about #45, and you must
also place a deposit on the cylinder, the deposit will
need to be cash (ie not switch card or credit card),
and it'll probably be around #50. Fortunately, I'm well
off, so money is not a problem here.
Note that, the party shops will not usually have any
helium to buy "off the shelf", and they may ask you to
wait from 1->10 days for some to be delivered. If time
is a constraint, then this could be a problem.
The gas appears to be "balloon grade" and exceeds
99% purity. The remaining fraction is probably
nitrogen, though I've no idea really.
Caution : The gas tank is actually quite heavy (about
the same as 2 or 3 car batteries), so if you
are in any way disabled, you may have trouble
with it.
_Neighbour : "so what on earth do you want this for..."
_You : "Oh, it's for me to gas myself with, would
you mind just helping me get it up the
stairs please..."
Making a Gas mask
-----------------
Your first stop should be a trip to the local 'auto
spares' shop, or 'Boots', where you can get syphoning
tube, or any other suitable flexible tubing. I would
recommend a longer piece rather than a shorter one for
reasons
a) The gas is quite cold when it comes out of the tank,
and a long tube will give it a chance to warm up by
a couple of degrees.
b) If you use a very long tube, there's a slight chance
you may get tangled up in it, and accidently trip
over and choke yourself do death on it.
c) You can always make a long piece shorter if you're
not happy with it.
about 3 metres should be plenty, and will cost
under #1 per metre.
Next stop - The supermarket. Buy a tub of "I can't
beleive it's not butter". Not the very small tubs,
but the next size up. If you remember when you were
a kid, you stick a glass over your mouth, and suck,
and the glass sticks. We will use the same principle
with the butter tub. Hence you want to get one which
will fit under your chin, over your mouth and up to
the bridge of your nose.
Any container of about this size will do, however I
would recommend the use of "I can't beleive it's not
butter", "Utterly Butterly", or "Clover", as they
come in quite strong plastic tubs, unlike "Flora"
or "Happy shopper own brand margi-muck", which have
thin plastic, which will probably crack or split
when being cut.
Treat yourself to a slap-up meal of toast and butter,
and then give the butter-tub a good cleaning, unless
you are a girl, in which case you probably like
having oily slimy stuff all over your face,
(contains active lipobuttersomes - in scientific
tests 8 out of 10 phlegm weevils got younger when
they used it - etc etc).
NB : I don't want anyone else to use an "I can't
beleive it's not butter" tub, as I want to be
the first person to kill myself using one. That
would be an achievment worthy of some praise.
Fit the tub over your mouth, you'll find that your
nose gets in the way, and prevents an air-tight fit.
Use a sharp knife (e.g. stanley knife), to cut a
small indentation where your nose goes. Make lots
of small cuts, rather than one big one, because
you're less likely to make a serious bodge. When the
tub fits snugly over your mouth, you should be able to
hold it there by sucking in. It doesn't matter if it
isn't a perfect air-tight fit, because the helium gas
will fill the mask easily, and as long as the %Oxygen
is kept low, then a little air getting in won't matter.
If the helium pressure is sufficiently strong, it'll
force out any air anyway.
Next - get some long elastic bands. Find a sharp object
about the size and shape of a knitting needle, and
puncture a hole in the sides of the tub on each side,
about in line with where your ears are. I found that
heating a knitting needle and punching a small hole made
a clean edge. Chain two or three long elastic bands
together, and push one end through the hole. Once it's
through, pull enough through the hole to let you tie a
large knot in the elastic band, and then pull the band
back through. The elastic band should now be held
firmly to the tub. Repeat this procedure on the other
side. And you can now place the tub over your mouth,
and put the elastic bands around the head. Adjust the
tightness (by tieing knots in the elastic band, or
pulling more throuth the tub holes), so that it fits
snugly and comfortably. If you've got the placement
just right, the elastic bands can be placed around the
ears, and the mask will hold in place very comfortably
and easily and will not fall off.
Next - Take the tubing, and note how wide it is. On the
front of the mask, about in line with the nose or mouth,
using the sharp knife, make two incisions about the
same diameter as the tubing. Don't cut a hole, just make
a cross shaped cut. Now push the tubing through from the
inside of the mask, and the cut pieces of plastic will
open out and form a flange around the tubing. Pull the
tubing through until a small piece is left protruding
into the mask, (not too far). Now tape the flanges of
plastic to the tubing, and liberally wind more tape
around the join until the tubing is firmly held and the
seal is air-tight.
Next - Tape the free end of the tube to the gas outlet
of the helium tank. This may be a problem : because
the gas tanks that are supplied for filling balloons,
have an unusual outlet. It consists of a spring loaded
nozzle, which when bent, opens a valve to allow the
gas out. Imagine holding a balloon onto a nozzle and
then twisting your wrist upwards, this forces a plunger
backwards and releases gas into the balloon, the gas
comes out rather quickly, filling the balloon in a
matter of seconds. When the nozzle is released, the
spring forces the nozzle back to the horizontal position,
and the metal plunger slides back against a stop,
cutting off the gas flow. There is a master valve on
the top of the cylinder too, but it doesn't allow for
much flow regulation.
This odd nozzle arrangement can act for and against us.
I ought to point out, that I have managed to get
(through work), a proper gas regulator valve, so I've
replaced the one on my cylinder, but I did some
experimentation with the spring loaded nozzle version
first. If you tape the tubing to the nozzle, and then
connect some more elastic bands between the nozzle end
and a sturdy object (like the cylinder handle), you
can make a nice "dead mans handle" - ie, when you let
go of the nozzle, the elastic band pulls the nozzle
upwards, and releases gas. This means that you can
hold the nozzle in a position which just lets enough
gas out, into the mask, and causes you to lose
conciousness, when you pass out, your hand will
release the nozzle, and the elastic band will open it
up even more, thus increasing the gas flow, and
ensuring that you don't get any air. Experimentation
has shown this to be quite a good little system.
NB : don't be tempted to remove the nozzle, and then
open the master valve, the gas comes out at a
tremendous speed, and will make the most amazing
noise, and make you jump right out of your skin
(it will also blow any paperwork on your
desk/floor etc all around the room). Only open
the master valve, when you have a suitable
regulator or nozzle in place (hey! you might
get yourself killed).
The hard bit - Gassing yourself.
--------------------------------
The fact that I'm writing this, is evidence enough
that I'm a chicken and haven't succeeded in killing
myself yet. I've no particular reason to die, just
bored with life, so there is no urgency on my part,
and one day I'll go through with it. However I can
tell you what you will feel using the inert gas
method, and I can reassure you that it is not painful.
The 'Bag over the head' method causes the build up
of CO2 and the body reacts with gasping, rapid pulse,
and general panic (I've tried it), the inert gas
method, simply replaces the air with an inert
atmosphere, denuded of oxygen, and the body has no
'learned' response to this.
Once you have the mask in place and the gas flowing
(I'd advise tunring the gas on first, arranging your
valve regulation, and then putting on the mask,
because the first gush of gas, can be a bit violent,
and might feel unpleasant), all you have to do is
breathe normally. When you breathe the gas in pure,
you'll notice that it is
a) quite cold, but not too unpleasant (long tube may help)
b) essentially odourless, though it smells different
from room air.
c) makes your voice squeaky, try singing as you die.
After maybe three long slow breaths, you may notice
a slight increase in your heart rate. I can only
speculate about this
a) caused by the body saying "more oxygen please"
b) anxiety - after all you are trying to kill yourself
c) some trace material in the gas (unlikely)
d) insert better reason here
I found that the momentary racing heart, passed quickly,
and I conclude that it was caused by anxiety (on
successive experiments, I've found the effect to be
less pronounced).
After about thirty seconds you will start to feel
pressure in your head. Not really, but if you have
stood up quickly, and feel dizzy, you'll know
that there's a stange feeling 'inside' your head.
This has been explained to me by a colleague, as
probably being caused by the blood vessels in the
head expanding to increase the blood flow and try
to keep oxygen levels up.
After a few more seconds, you'll start to feel
yourself black out. I was unable to verify exactly
what you 'see' because my gas mask, comes just up
to my eyes, so I keep them shut, whilst doing this.
However on previous experiments, just breathing
directly from the tube, I've found that your
vision starts to go black around the edges, and is
entirely consistent with symptoms caused by low oxygen.
At this point on all attempts, I have removed the
mask, and prayed that an aircraft would crash land
on my house and spare me having to do this any more.
Conclusions
-----------
Keeping the mask on for a few more seconds, would
almost certainly have resulted in blackout, having
the gas mask in place, would have meant a
continued period without oxygen, and eventual death,
under these circumstances - within a few minutes.
The entire process seems to be essentially painless.
You will feel yourself blacking out, and this
causes me some panic, and hence that abortion of the
operation, but I beleive persons with a stronger
will should have no difficulty in carrying the plan
through to terminus. (The person who initially
suggested the use of helium to me, has not contacted
me for some time, and since I have only an email
address, I cannot ascertain why, but is quite
possibly dead from this method).
Side effects : To date I have nearly succeeded on
several attempts, and have suffered
no (known) long term effects.
Since people can black out, from standing up too
quickly : The air force G-Test pilots by whirling
them around in centrifuges, and drawing the blood
away from the head until blackout : and blackouts
can be caused by numerous other means, I beleive
that if oxygen is restored quickly, then the
'aborted operation' should be fairly safe.
Pros of the method : It appears to be painless,
and can be carried out in the comfort of your own
home, at your own pace, allowing the opportunity to
get comfortable, have a last drink, put your
favourite record on etc etc.
Definitely a nice way to go.
Cons of the method : If you jump off a tall building,
then you just need to make that decision once. Once
your feet have left the ledge, you're history, and
there's no turning back (assuming a good landing anyway).
With the gassing method, you have about a minute to
sit there trying to convince yourself that you want to
live really, and it's very hard to quiet those demons.
I would dearly love to get my hands on some nitrous
oxide, as this would have an anaesthetizing effect,
whilst acheiving the asphyxiation.
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Hermotimus
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:26:54 -0500
I have some problems with using helium or nitrogen with
the garbage-bag-rubber-band method. Mainly, I wonder
about gas buildup: you open the valve on your gas cylinder,
hold the end of the hose from the tank up by your face,
pull the garbage bag over your head, and snap the rubber
bands in place around your neck (all while sedated and/or
drunk, to suppress any panic reaction).
Assuming you get a nice, tight fit with the rubber bands
over the bunched-up plastic band at your neck, the bag
inflates quickly with the inert gas and you rapidly pass
out. Then what? The gas keeps pouring into the bag,
with no way out; is the bag eventually going to rupture
at a seam, or snap rubber bands? Will that happen (in
a worst case scenario) *after* brain damage has occured,
but *before* death?
I can think of ways to stop the gas flow, or vent the gas,
but they're complicated (and that increases the risk of
failure). I think the nitrogen tent method deals with
these problems, and it's also, imho, a more comfortable
exit. I pieced together my tent with heavy (4 mil.)
plastic sheeting, taped over a box, but I have worked
out a simpler method:
Buy a heavy-duty trash bin liner, the kind
intended for 50-55gal. drums, used as trash
cans at parks, sporting arenas, etc.. These
are larger than usual garbage bags, are
usually transparent, and are made out of a
stronger plastic (similar to that used for
plastic grocery bags). They can be purchased
at a good hardware store or janitorial supply
store.
Get a sturdy cardboard box, large enough to
acomodate your head (and maybe your shoulds
- to be comfortable), but not too large to
fit inside the trash bin liner. Place the
box inside the bag (I'd place a pillow
inside the box, first). This is your
"tent."
Place the tent on a bed, with the open end
of the bag (and box) pointed toward the foot
of the bed. Run a hose from the nitrogen
or helium gas cylinder up inside the bag,
into the box.
Place a HEAVY blanket or quilt over the
open end of the bag, overlapping the end
by several inches. It's important that it
be heavy, because this is the seal - it
will allow excess gas to vent out, while
preventing fresh air from seaping back in.
Use duct tape to tape the edge of the
blanket to the bag.
The tent is ready to go. Open the valve
on the gas cylinder's pressure regulator,
sending gas into the tent. Take a deep
breath and slide up from the foot of the
bed, under the blanket and into the tent,
and lie with your head inside the box as
the tent is flooded with nitrogen or helium.
TECHNICAL DETAILS (sort of):
The goal is to get the oxygen levels inside the tent
below 6%, and to keep it down long enough for brain
death to occur.
[ed. note: there are easily-procured analysis
machines which would indicate the oxygen level.]
At atmospeheric oxygen levels of 4-6%, coma ocurs in
40 seconds, followed by convulsions, respiratory
arrest and death, according to Safety Bulletin SB-2
from the Compressed Gas Association
http://www.cganet.com/pubs/free/sb-2.htm
Nitrogen is available from welding supply stores;
common cylinder sizes are 75, 150, 250 cubic feet.
The tanks and regulators can be purchased or rented
(the cost is about the same either way).
You WILL need a pressure regulator, to reliably
control the rate of flow of gas into the tent.
I was advised by a compressed gas expert (I won't
mention him by name, but thanks!) to use a flow
rate of 10 cu. ft. per minute in my 4.5 cu.ft.
tent; I think a somewhat lower rate would be fine,
and would give me a longer flow (that's not
important with a 150 or 250 cu. ft. tank, but might
be with a smaller tank). In animal euthanasia tests,
the flow rate was reported as approx. 40% of the
volume of the compartment per minute - do the math
for your own tent.
Is it painful or unpleasant? Nitrogen asphyxiation
has been recommended as the ultimate humane method
for criminal executions - "Killing With Kindness," by
Stuart A. Creque, *National Review,* Sept. 11, 1995,
describes a couple of accidental nitrogen
asphyxiations, in which the victims apperantly never
realized what was happening. In animal euthanasia
experiments, hyperventilation prior to loss of
consciousness was reported, which might be
distressing, and muscular tremors, convulsions and
"vocalizations" after loss of consciousness.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/noawicpubs/avmaeuth.htm
I have run a couple of tests with my tent:
First, I have lain in the tent, just to see how long/if
CO2 buildup would occur. I was able to stay inside
my 4.5 cu. ft. tent for up to 45 minutes, before my
breathing became so labored that it was uncomfortable
(distracting, really). It also got rather warm inside
the tent, especially with a heavy quilt on it, and
there was a considerable buildup of moisture on the
inside of the tent, from my respiration. Not really
bothersome, given the short time I'll be in it (alive,
anyway) when I use it.
I also tested the tent by placing two lit votive
candles inside, placing a small, low-pressure
(7.5 cu.ft.) cannister of helium for party balloons
inside, and opening the valve. The candles dimmned
and went out in approximately 90 seconds.
I later vented the remainder of the small helium
tank into the tent while I was in it - enough to
raise the pitch of my voice, but not to even
make me light-headed. One shortcoming of these
tests was that I had no way to accurately judge
how much helium had actually been put into the tent,
and another is that I do not know whether the
oxygen levels necesary to support combustion by
the candles is as low as that necesary to remain alive.
I do not think the small canisters of helium sold
for filling 25-30 party balloons are sufficient to
"safely" carry out this method; the larger tanks
should be used.
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: coffee
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:41:56 -0700
> I have some problems with using helium or nitrogen with
> about gas buildup....
you have slightly different ideas than I. I would
simply fill the garbage bag up with helium, while
keepiung it closed, stop the influx of gas, then
put it over the head, and duct tape it on (actually,
before putting it over my head, I'd start the oxygen
dep. with some nitrous). This way, you don't have to
worry about pressures changing and what not. As helium
rises nicely, one should be able to not lose much
helium while putting it over ones head, and with a
good exhale before putting it on, hopefully the CO2
should not be a problem.
...I think that a couple of the smaller containers
would be fine for the solo garbage bag. However, your
idea seems quite thought out and workable, merely
requiring a larger expenditure of effort and money. I
think that both are about as likely to work (I plan on
sometime buying a garbage bag and testing about how
long that I can breath in it before CO2 build up
becomes a problem (altho I'm guessing it would take
longer without a temporary source of O2, and thus
continued respiration) tho I'd imagine that it would
take at least 15 minutes for a decently sized garbage
bag).
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Hermotimus
Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2.
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:11:35 -0500
> I guess that releasing the helium or nitrogen into
> the cabin of a vehicle wouldn't work, or would it?
> The volume of the cabin is probably far too large
> to be flooded by the gas completely, but wouldn't
> it be sufficient if the gas would displace the
> oxygen in the upper part (the head part) of the
> cabin?
It could be enough - one of the accidental nitrogen
asphyxiations described in the *National Review*
article involved two men who stole what they thought
was a canister of nitrous oxide from a hospital.
They opened the cylinder inside their car and were
asphyxiated sitting comfortably, waiting for the
laughing gas to take effect (this was pointed to
illustrate that, had they experienced any discomfort,
all either man had to do was roll down a window).
I don't know what size tank they stole - maybe
a large 250 cu. ft. cylinder.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Geo Stone"
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: Re: ASH TALK ON GASES IN SUICIDE. Round 2.
Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 01:28:06 -0400
> > >However there was a suggestion about utilizing
> > >a tube tent. How do we go from there to an
> > >exact method holding all the parameters in the
> > >correct range for not risking a failed suicide ?
> >
> > I think the posts by Hermotimus you quoted go
> > into pretty good detail.
> >
> > > ...what is a tube tent ?
> >
> > ...I think I know what a tube tent is, but I'm
> > not sure (I'm not really an outdoor/camper
> > person to begin with).
> >
> > >- what size gas cylinder related to the size of the tent ?
> >
> > Geo Stone's method talks about flushing the tent
> > once, and then sealing its ends. So a small
> > (or smallest) cylinder should be sufficient.
> >
> > >- how do we know that we have the level of oxygen
> > > low enough at sufficient amount of time.
> >
> > Again I think that Hermotimus idea is better than
> > Geo Stones tube tent. If you just flush the
> > cylinder inside the tent, heck, what about the
> > pressure build up in the tent?
>
> ...i dont share the trust in Herms small tent
> method. I appreciate Herms knowledgeable research
> but the one point I dont agree with Herm is the
> risk for screwing up the method by convulsions.
> The muscular strength in convulsions i imagine could
> be very strong and therefore i personally do not
> feel Herms method is reliable. That is just my
> impression. In a tent however I feel that one
> could have ones convulsions pretty free without
> risking to rupture the tent. Even more in a car
> i guess.
>
> I recall that we must be at 75% concentration or
> above and for sufficient amount of time, according
> to Stones chapter on gases. How would we be sure
> of that ? Maybe it is obvious to a gas expert that
> one would be, but i dont feel certain at this stage.
> I recall that oxygen has a tendency to leak into
> any space from which you take it away and i dont
> know how strong or quick this happens.
>
> Herms posting about the two guys in the truck was
> very interesting. We should be at a very
> interesting suicide-method here if it is correct
> that they were so peacefully put to sleep. We dont
> know what these guys had premedicated with though.
> I mean they could have been on some street drugs
> as well as they sat down to enjoy the laughing gas.
>
> By the way how do we really know they were not out
> to suicide ? If they would have had laughing gas
> that would have caused the same end result i
> assume, since that must be another form of oxygen
> suppression. This they should have also been able
> to figure. However i dont hold it unlikely that they
> were just out for a rush on laughing gas but how
> does anyone know ? Any clues in the article Herm ?
Re: tube tents. Mea culpa---thought they were common
knowledge; obviously I was wrong. Anyhow, these are
cylindrical plastic bags, open at both ends, that are
used as emergency tents by backpackers. They're
flimsy (about like thick trash bags), airtight, and
thus not very good for keeping dry (due to
condensation), but they are light and cheap ($5-10).
Since there is generally a rope running its length
and keeping it from falling, and a person on the
bottom, the approximate shape (in use) is triangular.
If the tube tent is 8 feet [244 cm] long and has a
diameter of 4 feet [122 cm] the triangular volume is
about 55 cubic feet [1.5 cubic meters] or about 400
gallons.
Hermotimus made the valid point that you want to vent
surplus gas without tearing the bag/tent and that a
rug over the tent was a reasonable way to achieve this.
The problem is that since the standard tube tent is
only 8 feet long, there may not be sufficient room
for a person to stretch out and still have enough bag
at either end to fold over with a rug flap. A couple
of possible work-arounds are (1) two tube tents
(end-to-end) attached by duct tape; (2) cut a hole
near the top of one side of the tube tent, and make a
weighted flap that vents excess gas and then falls
back in place. Gravity should work fine, but I
haven't tried this and you may want to experiment with
petroleum jelly (Vaseline) or velcro to make a better
seal.
Re: deaths due to nitrogen on airplanes (and elsewhere).
The point has nothing to do with airplanes per se, or
the circumstances under which nitrogen was mistakenly
used. The point (consistent with other accidental
human deaths, as well as intentional animal deaths) is
that nitrogen asphyxia seems to be a very low-trauma
way to go.
---------------------------------------------------------
c. Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
At concentrations of 30% to 40% CO2 in oxygen,
anesthesia was induced within 1 to 2 minutes, usually without
struggling, retching, or vomiting. ...In cats, inhalation
of 60% CO2 results in loss of consciousness within 45
seconds, and respiratory arrest within 5 minutes.
Several investigators have suggested that inhalation of
high concentrations of CO2 may be distressing to animals
because of mucosal irritation and ventilatory stimulation.
However, the degree of distress appears to be mild, and
it is unlikely that it is any more than inhalation of
volatile anesthetics....
Carbon dioxide is used for preslaughter anesthesia of
swine. The undesirable side effect of CO2, as used in
commercial slaughterhouses, is that swine experience a
stage of excitement with vocalization for about 40
seconds before they lose consciousness. For that
reason, CO2 preslaughter anesthesia may appear less
humane than other techniques.
Carbon dioxide may be purchased ...in solid state as
"dry ice." ...is inexpensive, nonflammable, and
nonexplosive.... ... does not result in accumulation
of tissue residues in food producing animals. ...does
not distort cellular architecture.
Because CO2 is heavier than air, incomplete filling of
a chamber may permit tall or climbing animals to avoid
exposure and to survive. This appears to be very
distressful to the animals. Some species may have
extraordinary tolerance for CO2.
Compressed CO2 gas in cylinders is preferable to dry ice
because the inflow to the chamber can be regulated precisely.
If dry ice is used, animal contact must be avoided to prevent
freezing or chilling. Carbon dioxide generated by other methods
such as from a fire extinguisher or from chemical means (eg,
Alka-Seltzer) are unacceptable. With an animal in the chamber,
an optimal flow rate should displace at least 20% of the
chamber volume per minute. Unconsciousness may be induced
more rapidly by exposing animals to a CO2 concentration of 70%
or more by prefilling the chamber. It is important to verify
that an animal is dead before removing it from the chamber. If
an animal is not dead, CO2 narcosis must be followed with
another method of euthanasia. Larger animals, such as
rabbits, cats, and swine, appear to be more distressed by
CO2 euthanasia; therefore, other methods of euthanasia are
preferable.
------------------------------------------------------------
d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O)
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm:
Nitrous oxide (N2O) may be used with the other inhalants to
speed the onset of anesthesia, but it alone does not induce
anesthesia in animals, even at 100% concentration. If N2O is
used as a sole euthanasia agent, hypoxemia develops before
respiratory or cardiac arrest, and animals may become
distressed prior to unconsciousness.
Nitrous oxide will support combustion.
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Randy Meador <"spam-blocker>hotmail.com">
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:44:05 -0500
>...i would like to go to pure nitrous oxide (dentist
>stuff/laughing gas)....where can a tank be obtained?
>legally or not.
It's legal, but most companies will not sell tanks of
it to a residential address unless there is a _damn_
good excuse given. You can get compressed gasses (CO2
and N2) at the URL at the bottom, and can make
arrangements with the same company to have them filled
with just about anything under the sun (including
nitrous). Incidentally, you can also order the Nitrous
chargers (box's of 24) at the same place. Probably a
lot cheaper than buying them at a head shop, or
speciality cooking store.
--------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: _nospam_faithless_nospam_@psu.edu (Faithless One)
>I don't know about a tank, but I've thought about just
>getting a bunch of 'whippets', filling a plastic trash
>bag with them, and sealing my head inside the bag.
>'Whippets' are available here at 'head shops' for about
>$52 for 5 boxes, 24 in each box. Each Whippet is about
>one lungful, so I think 5 boxes would fill a trash bag.
-------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: nathan.s@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 02:35:23 +0000
>> Hang out with drag racers (as in fast cars) for a
>> little while and you can learn all you'd ever
>> want to know about Nitrous. Summit Auto sells
>> $$$ kits with a filled 10Lb bottle by mail order
>> (extra $10 UPS hazardous material fee) and with
>> a little hunting you might find a mail order
>> outfit that will ship just the filled bottle
>> without the associated kit.
>
> I reccomend you all read some of the rec.drugs
> info on N20, the stuff they use in cars is
> "auto grade" while whippets and the stuff from
> the dentist are "medical/food grade", apparently
> the auto stuff has a fair but of sulpher
> "rotten egg" gas in it, so it'll probably just
> make you sick.
>
>> Whippets would require a _lot_ of money and a
>> _lot_ of effort to accumulate any quantity of
>> the gas. If you're an adult it's not that hard
>> to get full tanks of compressed inert gas.
>
> Disagree here, a pack of whippets is like only
> $5, and provides at least enough for "an evenings
> entertainment".
Nitrous Oxide is also used by taxidermists when
preparing an animal. Some taxidermist shops will
fill a tank for you. One near my old house would
do it for about $3 a pound.
-------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Randy
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500
> What exactly is the nitrogen tent method?
...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit
there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs,
preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold
your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and
die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious.
I've heard it's rather pleasant.
Ideally, you should use N20 (Nitrous Oxide) to act as
an anesthetic. If you've ever done "whippits", you'll
know what I'm talking about. This has been hashed over
before, but try to locate surgical grade nitrous...
The stuff used in Automobiles isn't required to pass
quality standards for use in humans.
N20 can be purchased in large canisters (by the lb)
from welding supply stores and compressed air
manufacturers. (like ISI)
http://www.isi.co.at/main_e.htm
While there is nothing illegal about N20, the places
that sell it know what it can be used for (other than
suicide, it can be inhaled for a 30 second high.) and
hesitate to sell it to residential areas. Unless
there is a good story involved, that is.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Randy
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:52:34 -0500
re whippets:
> I'm pretty sure that there's CO2 in those bottles
And I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. I'm sorry, but
the "chargers" used to fill whipped cream canisters
are filled with Nitrous Oxide. Now, the little
canisters that work with your air rifle are filled
with CO2; they look alike, but they are filled with
different gases. Try inhaling the contents of a
whipped cream charger sometime and report back to us;
if it gives you a minute high, than it's N2O, if not,
it's CO2. I can tell you right now, though, if you
bought it at a cooking supply store, for whipping
cream utensils, it's filled with Nitrous.
Oh, and BTW- don't inhale the gas directly from
the chargers; it's compressed, and when it comes out
it's *very* cold. We're talking hypothermia/freeze
a lip off cold.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: faceonmars@aol.commit-it (FaceOnMars)
Subject: Re: Laughing Gas .
Date: 2 Jun 1999 19:18:03 GMT
High performance cars use "NO" gas, reffered
to as simply "Nitriss" by many of the slack-jawed
auto racers.
This is used in conjuction with regular fuel delivery
to the carburator or fuel injection system. It can
only be used in small bursts, controlled by the driver.
Simply put, it makes the car go faster. Usually an
entire 2 seconds off the car's estimated time in a
quarter mile run.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: Enesha Fairluck
Subject: Re: Laughing Gas
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:04:10 -0400
filename="NITROUS.TXT"
Making Nitrous Oxide
from Tele-Theif Express
original file from
Z. DeBuggah from Folo Zone
416/283-1854
Making Lauging Gas/Whip-its/Nirous Oxide/etc.
---------------------------------------------
WHAT YOU NEED:
--------------
o Ammonium Nitrate (NH4NO3) - get a good grade,
it's a fertilizer and comes in 50lb. bags.
Also available from lab supply companies like
VW&R or American Scientific at a much greater cost.
o Clean sand. Fairly fine grained (30 mesh or
finer.) If you collect your and you get fresh
water sand, it will be necessary to wash it thoroughly
with water then dry it before using. You must also
wash the sand before reusing it.
o Electric hot plate (500 to 2500 watt) with
variable heat.
o Stainless steel dial thermometer. (This is the
only metal item which may be used.) It must go to
250 C (450 F). Select the Erlenmeyer flask (next
item) and the thermometer so that the thermometer
can reach at least within 1/16" of the bottom of
the flask through the stopper.
o A 2000 to 4000 ml PYREX or KIMAX Erlenmeyer flask.
o Several feet of 3/8" clear vinyl or surgical rubber
tubing.
o At least 4 8mm ID glass or plastic tubing "T's".
o 1 120 degree bend 8mm ID PYREX glass elbow, with
about 3" of tubing on each side of the bend.
o 7 6-8" long pieces of 8mm ID glass or plastic tubing.
o 3 6-8 feet long 1.5" to 2" diameter glass or clear
plastic pipes.
o 1 two hole rubber or neoprene stopper to fit the
top of the Erlenmeyer flask. One hole should fit the
8mm ID PYREX glass elbow, and the other hole should
fit the stainless steel dial thermometer.
o 6 one hole rubber or neoprene stoppers that will fit
the ends of the clear plastic or glass pipes. The
holes in the stoppers must fit the straight 8mm ID
glass or plastic tubes.
NH NO ----------------------> N O + 2*H O
4 3 2 2
Ammonium nitrous two =
Nitrate oxide water
Set-up
------
If you've gotten this far - remember - you MUST
meet the exact quiality specifications of the
equipment list. If you really want a do-it-yourself
nitrous oxide generator, you want a sturdy set-up
you can over and over and enjoy again and again!
See IFF files included for the diagram of the set-up.
Assembly
--------
NOTE: When inserting tubing through stopper holes,
ALWAYS WRAP AND HOLD = THE TUBING WITH A CLOTH.
Also moisten the tip of the tubing and the stopper
hole with glycerin, soap, or spit. (never oil)
1> Into the stopper with two holes, inset the
thermometer far enough so that when the stopper
is put into the Erlenmeyer flask, it almost
touches the bottom of the flask (but don't allow
it to touch), and then insert one end of the
glass elbow far enough through the stopper so
that it sticks out 1/4" to 1/2".
2> Into the six one-hole stoppers, insert a
piece of the 8mm ID glass (or plastic) tubing so
that 1/2" to 3/4" protrudes from the narrow end
of the stopper.
3> Now select your set-up space so that there is
1.5 feet of space clear in all directions around
the hotplate, so that the three scrubber pipes can
lie side by side where they will not be knocked
over.
4> Take approximately 2 feet of the 3/8" flexible
tubing and connect one end to the glass elbow in
the two-hole stopper, and the other end to the
middle of one of the 8mm ID glass (or hard
plastic) "T's".
5> With short pieces (select lengths for a neat
fit) of 3/8" tubing and another 8mm "T" assemble
the INLET SET manifold and connect it to the
bottom end of the scrubbers. Stoppers may then
be inserted into the lower end of the scrubber pipes.
6> Elevate the OUT end of the scrubber pipes so
that the upper end is 6" to 8" above the IN end,
but no more, and then fill the pipes with water
until they are full within 4" to 8" of the top
(outlet) end, and insert the outlet stoppers.
Try to fill all the scrubbers equally full.
7> With short pieces of 3/8" tubing and two 8mm
ID "T's", prepare and connect the OUTLET SET
manifold to the scrubbers similar to the way the
set was connected in step 5.
8> To the last "T" of the OUTLET SET (of "T's"
manifold), connect a fairly long piece of 3/8"
tubing to reach a "safe" location (where
connection and disconnection of the receiver
bags will not disturb the scrubbers) and
secure it. Then put the last piece of 8mm ID
hard tubing into the free end.
9> Finally, prepare several receiever bags by
inserting about an 8" piece of tubing into the
top so that 3" or 4" sticks out of the bag and
secure it in place with a rubber band.
=> > > > > > > > > CONGRATULATIONS < < < < < < < < <=
You are now the proud owner of your very own
Nitrous Oxide Generator.
Operation
---------
First, prepare a quantity of a mixture containing
1/3 sand and 2/3 ammonium nitrate. Then pour enough
of the mixture into the erlenmeyer flask to give
1.5" to 2" in the bottom of the flask. Put the flask
onto the hotplate, and insert the two-hole stopper,
firmly but not too tight. <> --BUT--
WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING
!
W Once the heating of the mixture in the erlenmeyer
A flask has started you MUST REMOVE the two-hole
R stopper from the flask before turning off the heat.
N Otherwise as the flask starts to cool off, it will
I draw water from the scrubbers back into the hot
N flask and may crack or EXPLODE the erlenmeyer flask
G with the steam formed inside.
!
WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING-WARNING
Now you may begin heating the flask. Turn the hotplate
to medium or medium-high and watch the thermometer.
If the temperature climbs very fast, turn the hotplate
down, but be patient about turning it up. Occasional
bubbles will be noted going through the scrubbers as
the air in the system expands. At 210 C (410 F) a
yellowish to orange-brown will begin filling the
flask, and the bubbling throught the scrubbers will
become steady.
At this time, adjust the upper end heights of the
scrubber tubes so that each one gets about the same
amount of gas passing through it. Keep your eye on
the temperature, and it should not climb much over
the 210-220 C (410-430 F) marks. Also the gas at
the top of the scrubbers MUST BE PERFECTLY
COLORLESS! Otherwise, turn down the heat setting.
If the gas flow is too low to give a steady flow
through all three scrubbers, increase the heat
slightly.
Once you've run your system a time or two, you'll
know what your operating settings are.
As soon as the gas flow is steady and clean,
connect a receiving bag to the final outlet tube,
and allow the bag to fill. It may be necessary to
add more amonium nitrate-sand mixture to the flask
from time to time -- wear gloves as the flask will
be HOT when removing the stopper. It is also a
good idea to turn off the hotplate while the
stopper is out of the flask.
Once you've filled a few bags with laughing gas,
you're ready to try some....
-----------------------------------------------------
e. Water/Drowning (H2O)
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: wgoff1
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:38:56 -0400
>>...could a person drink themselves to death with water
>>or would they throw up first? And if it is possible
>>to die this way, is it painful? And how long would
>>it take? Thanks.
>
> Yes, it can actually happen. I have seen a notice
> in a swedish paper about this happening once. I also
> think Calle wrote about it in the old methods file.
>
> What happens is that you upset the osmotic balance
> in your system, and your cells in the body will
> cease to work, or work a lot less efficiently.
>
> I do not remember how much water you have to drink,
> and during what period of time, but I am sure it is
> a considerable amount.
>
> I would not recommend it though.
What you are describing is called psychogenic
polydipsia which is xs water drinking. The
chemical change in your blood is a dilutional
state with a low sodium level (hyponatremia).
In order to lower your sodium levels critically
you must make a massve effort and a poor kidney
response. The sodium gradient between the
brain and blood is such that seizures and
confusion occurs. Permanent brain damage may
follow if you don't die.
I feel the risk of suffering after/during the
attempt is not worth it unless you are
masochistic and wish to suffer maximally to
reflect your miserable existence.
------------------------------------------------
From: anonymous
Subject: Suffocation Possibilities
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:13:35 -0800 (PST)
RE intentional drowning:
It depends on if you are holding yourself underwater
or something else is. The context sounds like we're
talking about very small bodies of water such as a
tub. While people do drown in tubs it's usually
because they are unconscious (not drunk) first. If
one is serious about drowning though, one probably
should choose a much large water source such as a
lake or an ocean. (Though as Hermotimus has pointed
out on ash, salt water drowning is more painful.)
Then you can either swim out (and don't stop - a
tough one) until you are so exhausted that you can
no longer hold your head out of the water. Or bring
weights (Virgina Woolf put rocks in her pockets)
that you can swim with for a while but that would
sink you if you stopped swimming. Another variation
is to chose a water source that has a current that
will carry you out past the point you can return
(Pacific Ocean being the prime example out here.)
------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Barry Bermingham
Subject: Re: Suicide suggestion....??? maybe?
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:50:51 +0100
> I was thinking, maybe if you put a few weights on
> your feet and arms, and held on to some floats,
> to keep you afloat, and then pop double the
> dosage of sleeping pills, eventually you become
> unconcious, and fall asleep, and will let go sink
> to the bottom, and rest in peace....
similar to the way i'm thinking of doing it. seems
more likely to work than the plastic bag one. i'd
rather be found in a lake by a passer-by than my
family at home anyway....
------------------------------------------------
C. DAMAGE
* driving into a cement wall
depending on the vehicle and the velocity, this may or
may not result in fatality or immediate termination.
I suspect that a motorcycle at very high velocity
would be the best method of achieving the Motivsplat.
* touching the third rail
electrocution is uncertain, and could result in some
neurological problems if we don't succeed in death.
I suspect that taking further steps, such as anti-
insulation, something to do with water, maybe
carrying big hunks of metal, maybe even transistors
or something would assist the Jolt. research into
the success of suicidals or accidents appears valuable.
* lying down on tracks
stupidity factors here. advanced timing of the train,
which parts of the body are cut off (people have become
parapalegics but not died in such circumstances),
whether the suicide is seen (a tunnel would seem
excellent, or just 'round a bend in the wilderness),
who may be nearby, whether assistance can really be
achieved soon afterward, and whether the HEAD is
lopped off, would all appear to be factors in the
Trainslice.
* diving off a tall structure
apparently people have survived, upon occasion, very
long plummets. sometimes these have been cushioned
by foliage or air currents. the higher the structure
and the more expert the dive (hitting head-first can
be successful from low-altitudes) are the factors
here. others may also be if something is below that
might cushion the fall, like trees, children, water,
etc. water can be like hitting a wall, at times.
------------------------------------------------
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm:
Physical methods of euthanasia include captive bolt, gunshot,
cervical dislocation, decapitation, electrocution,
...exsanguination, stunning, or pithing. However, some of
these procedures, namely exsanguination, stunning, and
pithing, are not recommended as a sole means of euthanasia, but
are adjuncts when used in association with other agents or
methods. Some consider physical methods of euthanasia
aesthetically displeasing. However, some of these methods cause
less fear and anxiety, and may be more rapid, painless, humane,
and practical than other forms of euthanasia when properly used
by skilled personnel with well-maintained equipment.
If the method is not accomplished correctly, animals
may be injured and may have varying degrees of consciousness,
resulting in pain and distress.
In general, physical methods are recommended for use only
after other acceptable means have been excluded; in sedated
or unconscious animals when practical; and when
scientifically or clinically justified. Consequently, the
panel considers all physical methods, except microwave
irradiation, conditionally acceptable.
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Decapitation
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm:
...Decapitation is a technique that may induce rapid
unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished.
The handling and restraint required to perform this
technique may be distressful.... Data suggest that
electrical activity in the brain persists for 13-14
seconds following decapitation. ...Decapitation may
be aesthetically displeasing to personnel performing
or observing the technique.
----------------------------------------------------
a. Guillotine
-----------------------------------------------------
b. Hanging
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "John Jacob Jingleheimerschmutt"
Subject: Re: Noose yes, what knot?
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:03:26 -0800
Strangulation or Cervical Dislocation?
If you're going to step off a chair and strangle yourself
to death (sort of quick):
The knot goes behind your neck and should pull tighter as
more pressure is applied. Loop one end and tie a simple
knot with main and looped section of rope to make an eye,
thread rope through eye, secure to something solid. Test
the rope. Your unconscious body will thrash about as it
dies. You may want to put something around the rope where
it comes into contact with your neck to keep it from
cutting. Pull rope tight around your neck and step off.
If you're going to try to break your neck (quicker
looking, but arguable whether it's a faster death):
The knot should not pull tight, and be placed behind the
ear. It needs to go at the side, and you'll need to
fall 5-8 feet before it goes tight (according to your
weight). Someone posted tables here based on weight.
After only a few minutes' worth of web searching,
here's a sight that details how to make a noose
(Search: Hangman knot): Hangman's Noose Knot-Board
http://huizen2.dds.nl/~erpprs/kne/noose.htm
This site gives step-by-step instructions for
execution hanging:
Hanging Protocol (State of Delaware)
http://www.theelectricchair.com/hanging_protocol.htm
http://www.theelectricchair.com (This site also appears
to have other interesting tidbits.)
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jomac@earthlink.net (jomac)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:24:44 GMT
>>> >Does anybody here know for sure how long it
>>> >would take using traditional hanging to
>>> >reach unconciouness? (through asphyxiation).
>
> Check the alt.sex.* bondage groups (as a lurker).
> Since some of them are into the near-death
> asphyxiation/sex thing, they'd have tested the
> limits more than ashers would have.
>
>>> The knot should be at the back of your head,
>>> not the side. You can probably do more damage
>>> to the brain stem that way. It controls stuff
>>> like breathing.
>>
>>I thought it was more effective if the knot was
>>at the side. That the neck would break more
>>easily.
>
> The knot at the side is more effective when you're
> out to snap your neck. If you're going for
> strangulation instead of breaking the spinal cord,
> I'm not sure it matters as much. If you're just
> leaning into the noose, having it at the back may
> make it easier to apply even pressure to the
> windpipe and veins. Being at the back (for
> gentle strangulation -- if there is such a thing),
> wouldn't really cause more physical brain
> stem damage. Depending on the knot you use, you
> might actually have the least pressure at the knot
> point.
>
> Spinal damage is the main issue in snappings
> (long falls). Cutting off the oxygen supply to
> the brain is the main issue in strangulations.
>
> I don't know if taking sedatives or muscle
> relaxants significantly cut down on the time to
> death for strangulations, but it might cut down
> on the thrashing.
Actually, what the British master hangmen did
(after the long-drop method was adopted) was to place
the knot at the corner of the jaw oriented so that as
it tightened, it would travel under the the jaw,
throwing the head back.
They also used a rope with a massive metal ring to
aid in throwing back the head. The American's used
the hangman's knot to do the same thing: it was a
heavy bulky knot which helped throw the condemned's
head back. Additionally, it was a high friction knot,
so the hangman could tighten it and go about the
remainder of his business without worrying about the
noose loostening and coming off. This knot is NOT
good for effective strangulation precisely for that
reason. If the neck is not broken, the hangman's
knot can actually prolong strangulation because it
does not tighten very effectively.
Ending up with the knot behind the head throws the
head forward and virtually guarantees the spine will
not be broken unless the drop used is extremely long.
The knot to the side is a little better.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: wgoff1
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:56:16 -0400
I found this bit I hope it helps:
A Guide To Hanging Yourself
14 stone (196 lbs.) 8 ft. 0 in.
13 1/2 stone (189 lbs.) 8 ft. 2 in.
13 stone (182 lbs.) 8 ft. 4 in.
12 1/2 stone (175 lbs.) 8 ft. 6 in.
12 stone (168 lbs.) 8 ft. 8 in.
11 1/2 stone (161 lbs.) 8 ft. 10 in.
11 stone (154 lbs.) 9 ft. 0 in.
10 1/2 stone (147 lbs.) 9 ft. 2 in.
10 stone (140 lbs.) 9 ft. 4 in.
9 1/2 stone (133 lbs.) 9 ft. 6 in.
9 stone (126 lbs.) 9 ft. 8 in.
8 1/2 stone (119 lbs.) 9 ft. 10 in.
8 stone (112 lbs.) 10 ft. 0 in.
The above table shows weight and reccommended drop
This is actually a quite important list. Why not give
everyone a ten foot drop? Turns out that with too much
of a drop, if you're too heavy, you decapitate
yourself, which is both quite messy, and doesn't give
the right impression. After all, you want to be found
hanging there, with your suicide note neatly pinned to
your chest, or perhaps tastefully left on the table
beside you, and not with your body in one place and
your head in another, with a few shards of flesh
hanging from the rope. Also remember that this was
for heavy hanging rope, and that thinner rope might
not survive the snap at the end of the drop. In other
words, to do yourself in with your belt, or zipcord,
you will have to strangle yourself, and not break
your neck. Another popular way to kill oneself is with
impalement. In the past, falling on one's sword was a
means of doing this, but these days, a good sword is
so hard to find, so this method has fallen out of
fashion. One of my grandmother's roomers did manage
to do himself in this way, by sitting on an upright
vacuum cleaner, and falling backwards on to it, but
it was never settled as to whether or not this was
an intentional suicide, or simply a very messy accident
during a dangerous sexual practice. And do, please,
let people know. This fellow was not found for three
days, and it was quite difficult to get the smell and
stains out so that the room could be let again.
-------------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
it's possible to "hang" with both your feet touching
the ground. all that's necessary is pressure on the
neck, cutting off the blood supply to the brain. you
lose consciousness after about 10 seconds. this is
_strangulation_, not suffocation.
there are other ways to die by hanging, namely (1)
fracture of the spine and (2) decapitation, but
they're rare in suicide.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: "Anon"
Subject: My first hanging attempt
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:58:53 -0500 (EST)
This message was posted anonymously:
Last night I was home alone, I took an electrical cord and
went to the basement. I tied one end of the cord around
my neck, and pulled the other over a beam in the ceiling.
I stood on the arm of a couch, and pulled the cord until I
was on my tiptoes. Then I stepped off.
I held the cord tightly. I felt it tighten around my neck
(and I hadn't even tied any kind of slip knot). I remember
just hanging there, feeling lightheaded, but not suffering.
No pain, just a little discomfort. After a few seconds, I
tried to breathe. I was able to inhale with difficulty, I
could hear my rasping breath. Then... nothing.
I came to on the floor I was probably conscious for no
more than ten seconds, if that long. I had banged my
mouth, and cut my lip, but other than that, I was fine,
though a little dizzy.
Knowing that I will pass out so soon, I will be conscious
for no more than ten seconds, next time I will tie tied
the cord to the beam.
------------------------------------------------------
2. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Breakage)
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Cervical Dislocation (as hanging snapping neck)
Cervical dislocation is a technique that may induce
rapid unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished.
...Data suggest that electrical activity in the brain
persists for 13 seconds following cervical dislocation.
------------------------------------------------------
3. Electrocution
4. Hypothermia
a. Snow
b. Water
------------------------------------------------------
6. Immolation
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Smithers
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:37:13 +1100
Self-immolation.
Yup, that good ol' buddhist thingo they did to protest
the Vietnam war.
Haha... fat lot of good that did.
But hey, get really loaded with, say, drambuie or similar
liqueur style booze (easier on the burn), take some body
numbing painkiller (difficult to procure, I admit - could
be a stumbling block), a jerrycan of petrol and head to
your local TV station, shopping centre, representative's
office, kindergarten or wotever.
Douse yourself with the juice, light up and PRESTO!
Imminent death, plus making a statement (something
obscure like, say, the situation in East Timor).
Just make sure there's no do-gooders with fire
extinguishers hanging around.
But always ensure the Press are there. Preferably on a
sunday, typically a slow news day. They'll love you for it.
------------------------------------------------------
7. Exsanguination
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Exsanguination can be used to ensure death subsequent to
stunning, electrical stunning, or in otherwise unconscious
animals. ...anxiety is associated with extreme
hypovolemia....
a. Wrists
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "ZeroDegree@Cold.com"
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:27:38 -0000
bend your wrist towards you, see where the crease is?
Go for there, one diagnal cut, as deep as you can
make it, try a razor. Running a hot bath will increase
blood flow to the area and bring the blood vessels/arteries
closer to the skin makig them easier to cut....
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "LIAM D YOUENS"
Date: 15 Dec 1997 10:56:04 GMT
The best way to do it is this:
-get a very large bowl, full of ice water...
lots of ice
-put your arm in it for an hour( hurts at first )
-get a razor or sharp knife, exactor knife good
-cut along the wrist where it meets the hand
-then cut 45 degrees down across your wrist
-then down center along your arm until it starts
to hurt
note: when I tried this, right before I cut..I dropped
the knife and vomited
-----------------------------------------------------------
b. Major Arteries/Veins
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: Herry
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:59:38 +1100
...if you wanna bleed to death there are are 2 routes to go.
Inside each thigh. There are arteries there an inch thick -
blood loss to death within minutes. If yer serious and you
have the guts... One stab and splurt you won't believe. And
no stopping it. Just my advice. Hardcore, but a quick, way
to go. Read up yer med texts.
-----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: al255@yfn.ysu.edu (Lance Rodberg)
Date: 20 Dec 1997 04:57:02 GMT
Best target is the armpits or femoral arteries get a
hollow tube with some sort of cutting edge on the surface.
You can jam it into something major, and then bleed out
real fucking good. Femoral is the best. Hard to get to,
unless you have like a shotgun with slugs, or a sharp
surface, but a Gray's anatomy book will help yer
asses out....
-------------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: tagtraeumer
Date: 26 Dec 1997 16:35:19 -0000
>Forget the wrists. Go for the artery around the blood
>donating vein on the inside right of the left elbow or
>inside left of right elbow. Have a few drinks (eases
>pain and yuck factor), tie a rubber band or a hair
>thingy tightly around your upper arm, take a razor
>blade and just nick about 1/4-1/2 inch deep. I sort
>of accidentally discovered this while cutting. Didn't
>take long for one cup, two cups of blood to literally
>pour out. I did this a few times.
I tried the elbow thing about 8 years ago, stabbed with
a knife rather deeply at the inside of my elbow, where
the pulse beat is strongest and actually visible, and
did believe to be able to slash the artery and bleed
to death. Probably i missed the artery completely, but
damaged my elbow joint, it hurts until now. And i
didn't lose much blood as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
8. Weapons
a. Explosives
b. Guns
AVMA: Gunshot
...[Gunshot]... should be performed by highly skilled
personnel using a firearm appropriate for the situation.
...the firearm should be aimed so that the projectile
enters the brain, causing instant unconsciousness.
Unconsciousness is instantaneous if the projectile
destroys most of the brain.
It is aesthetically unpleasant.
---------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards)
Date: 15 Aug 1997 14:52:49 GMT
>where is the best place to aim to cause certain death?
>I have heard just below the chin or in the mouth with
>gun on an angle pointing to brain or the side of
>the head...
The intuitive answer is go for the eye socket, but just
the thought is enough to make most people squirm...
Any bullet "on an angle" or "the side of the head" is
more likely than not to bounce off...
>what kind of bullet is best?
A big, heavy, fast one? Stay away from 22 rimfire, the
only .22 that has any chance of effectiveness is a
.223... but IMHO, if you want to save money and
insure "certain death", find a good (used) double
barreled 10 gauge... Great if you only have to handle
the recoil once and don't have to worry about having
a big black and yellow bruise across your shoulder for
the next week (voice of experience on that one).
Remember the rules (http://www.nra.org/rstar/rstargsr.html):
Three Fundamental Rules For Safe Gun Handling
1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
When Using Or Storing A Gun,
Always Follow These NRA Rules:
Know your target and what is beyond. Be absolutely
sure you have identified your target beyond any
doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area
beyond your target. This means observing your
prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never
fire in a direction in which there are people or
any other potential for mishap. Think first.
Shoot second.
Be sure the gun is safe to operate. Just like other
tools, guns need regular maintenance to remain
operable. Regular cleaning and proper storage are
a part of the gun's general upkeep. If there is any
question concerning a gun's ability to function,
a knowledgeable gunsmith should look at it.
Know how to use the gun safely. Before handling a
gun, learn how it operates. Know its basic parts,
how to safely open and close the action and remove
any ammunition from the gun or magazine. Remember,
a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof.
Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling.
Use only the correct ammunition for your gun. Only
BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a
particular gun can be fired safely in that gun.
Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the
barrel. Ammunition can be identified by
information printed on the box and sometimes stamped
on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you
know you have the proper ammunition.
Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate. Guns
are loud and the noise can cause hearing damage.
They can also emit debris and hot gas that could
cause eye injury. For these reasons, shooting glasses
and hearing protectors should be worn by shooters
and spectators.
Never use alcohol or drugs before or while shooting.
Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to
impair normal mental or physical bodily functions,
must not be used before or while handling or
shooting guns.
Be aware that certain types of guns and many
shooting activities require additional safety
precautions.
--------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards)
Date: 9 Sep 1997 02:43:01 GMT
The only way to position a _handgun_ to ensure death is
to point it directly at a large group of police officers,
preferably of a different skin color than yours.
Otherwise, trade it in on a single or double barrel 12Ga
shotgun, and spend the extra cash you get from the trade
to buy a box of double ought buckshot shells and a
cheap hacksaw.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: wgoff1
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:50:08 -0400
The target is your brainstem and not your brain
necessarily. Why? Because one can survive loss of
cerebral cortex but usually with a deficit like a stroke.
One can not survive loss of the brainstem which controls
breathing, waking and cardiac function. The good news
is that enough bleeding in the skull (as long as it
remains enclosed) will compress the brain stem and
squeeze it out at the bottom (uncal herniation) and
this will kill you (brain death). Enough swelling in
the brain (cerebral edema) will have the same effect
(death). The latter 2 processes (bleeding and
swelling) take time and are potentially reversible.
The first process namely destruction of the brain stem
is hopeless or successfull depending upon your
perspective.
Now it becomes a simple matter of neuroanatomy to select
your spot and weapon. I will also base this on being
a bad shot as well. If you can not control the weapon
or pull away or something a grazing injury or worse is
possible.
This is often seen when the gun is placed in the mouth.
Shotgun or not (and I believe bullets exist which perform
like a shotgun shell), if you angle too high into the
roof of your mouth you can blast through your sinuses
and eyes or frontal lobe and survive but virtually
destroying your face, vision or affect respectively.
This is a horrid survival and not uncommon. Now if you
aim too low, perhaps deep throating the barrel you will
likely miss the brain altogether and if in the midline
transect your spinal cord (which could be fatal without
intervention) or if to the side various airway soft
tissue damage.
To sucessfully use your mouth as the entrance wound
you must aim up toward the brainstem and hopefully
blow the back of your skull off. This would be 100%.
Once again given enough time and inattention any of
these wounds would be fatal from bleeding, swelling,
compression or subsequent infection. I vote no for
the mouth myself.
The classic temple shot, that is in the mid-skull at
eye level is stupid. The most damaging brain structures
you will hit are the frontal lobes. This is tantamount
to a frontal lobotomy, but once again given enough
time... I have heard of shots missing the brain
altogether and taking out both eyes as well. I vote
no for the temple.
How about right in the middle of your forehead to
between your eyes. This is better if you can hit the
midline stuctures such as the midbrain and brain stem.
I recalled a homeless person firing a nail gun in
between his eyes with not effect. The nail missed
everything and lodged in the middle of the brain, so
midline brain could be ineffective. I vote probable
no here too.
So where? My first choice is behind or directly
into one ear aiming across to the other. With a
sure hand the vital brainstem will shread. You
would not even hear the shot or have time to feel a
thing. Likewise the barrel directed into either eye
socket and aimed down will accomplish the task.
The neuroanatomical idea is that these sites follow
the respective cranial nerves (optic, auditory) into
vital midline structures. I vote yes for this approach.
You can ofcourse miss or pull away or just be lucky or
unlucky once again depending on your perspective.
A hand grenade in the mouth would be infalllible.
One might also consider exploding bullets, etc (I
profess a meager knowledge of guns and ammo.)
--------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: s3036712@mpce.mq.edu.au (Powdered TOAST Man)
Date: 25 Sep 1997 04:21:55 GMT
For a shotgun, basically anywhere near your head should
do the trick. I'd suggest in your open mouth, aiming
to go out the top of your head. We've all heard the
stories of dudes with revolvers shooting into their
mouths and ending up piercing their neck, with
comparitively little damage.
For a shotgun, I'd suggest placing the "butt" of it on
the ground, against a wall, then sit/kneel in front of
it with the barrel in your mouth. This last part
should avoid it kicking and you not "finishing the job".
After the job's done, you'll be left with half a head
(at best), and a LOT of mess around. A lot of people
don't want this, so be warned. Your body will tend to
fall backward rather than foward (because of the wall).
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston)
Date: 22 Dec 1997 15:46:56 -0600
You can generally find a youth model 12 gauge shotgun
at your local sporting goods store for around $80.
I saw one for $71.
You only need to be 18. There is no waiting period.
Buy 00 ("double-aught") buckshot shells for it and
you're ready. You might want to securely duct-tape
it to your head so it's in your mouth and there is
no possibility of simply blowing part of your face off.
I can't think of much that's more certain short of
using a grenade for a pillow. You won't even hear
the blast. If your arms are short, use your toe
for the trigger.
---------------------------------------------------
To: alt.satanism
From: Kerry Delf
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 00:15:33 -0800
re explanations for why you want a gun
1. I enjoy shooting -- I've even recently begun
shooting competitively, and it has been a
wonderfully challenging experience, in addition to
being a fun social time with other friendly,
intelligent shooters.
2. I appreciate the aesthetic merits of firearms.
Some are enjoyable as well-made machines; some
are simply beautiful (take a look at the SVD
Dragunov sniper for an example -- a friend of
mine has one, and it's a gun to drool over).
3. I am a 5'6", 120 lb. woman who is often out
alone at night (avoided when possible, but it's
still fairly frequent), in an area where (stranger)
rapes and attempted or completed sexual (and other)
assaults are too frequent for comfort -- in what is
not a "bad area," even. I have taken courses in
unarmed self-defense, but my stopping power is
MUCH more effective when I am in possession of a
firearm. I *am* safer when armed, though if I
were caught unarmed by an assailant (for example,
after leaving a federal building, in which I cannot
legally carry a firearm), I know enough unarmed
defense to have perhaps a fighting chance to get
away (though not /nearly/ as much of a chance as
I would have if armed, and with a much higher
likelihood of being injured in the process).
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston)
Date: 26 Dec 1997 19:47:37 -0600
Ok -- any mechanical engineers or gunsmiths in the house?
A shotgun, stripped of the need to fire multiple rounds, of
the need for accuracy, comfort, or anything else besides
launching a handful of 00 buckshot at the base of your
skull once, is an incredibly simple thing -- really just
a pipe of sufficient strength and the right size and a
firing mechanism, which need only strike the center of the
shell one time with a modicum of force.
Imagine: the 12-gauge, single shot, single use zip gun.
Constructed from $20 worth of hardware that requires no
ID to buy, you need only supply the shotgun shell. (which
sadly, will require ID in the US, but only showing you are
over 18, and with no waiting period applicable.)
Wondering how cheap and simple-to-make such a thing could
be... maybe I will pursue this idea.
Hrm, preliminary idea --
A pipe of just the right size so that, as in the barrel
of a gun, the plastic part of the shell will fit inside
the pipe, but the metal lip on the shell prevents the
shell from falling into the barrel, has a shell so
affixed to it (and epoxied into place so it cannot fall
out of the barrel, either) with a BB taped to the place
the firing pin would strike on the metal end of the shell,
and is placed inside another pipe just large enough so
that the first pipe can freely move through the larger
pipe.
Now, the end of the large pipe can be held in one's mouth
as one kneels on the floor over the device, and the small
pipe is allowed to drop through the large pipe so that
the shell with the BB taped to the firing point strikes
the hard concrete floor while the other end of the small
pipe is still inside the larger pipe.
Doable?
Ascii art attempt, if this is not clear.
| |
| | <--- inner pipe
| |
| |
||---||
|| ||
|| || <--- shell inside inner pipe
||___||
|| ||
|| ||
---o--- <-- there's the lip if the metal part of the shell.
^--- there's the BB, taped to the point the firing
pin would strike.
Drop this through a larger pipe so the BB hits the ground
while the small pipe is still partially in the large pipe,
with your mouth around the top of the big pipe.
Ideally one would just buy a shotgun, but not everyone is
so fortunate as to be legally able to.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alc.suicide,
From: holtor@wxs.nl (mori bundus)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:10:15 GMT
> If you want to get a decent suicide, don't fire a
> pistol into your head.
>
> If you use a high-powered cartridge, your skull will
> probably explode, making a mess of the place chosen to
> "do the deed". This will be an awful sight for your
> family, friends, passers-by, etc.
>
> If you use a low-power round, such as a .22, you may
> survive, but with a badly harmed brain.
I thought that was precisely where helmets are made for,
so put a helmet on your top and fire away............
------------------------------------------------------
ii. Death-By-Police
buy a cheap toy gun that looks real enough from a distance.
get stopped by a police officer and, from a distance, get
emotional and pull the weapon. refuse to put it down when
they command it. take a firing stance and aim the toy.
best to obscure your body except for your head when
beginning the escapade.
D. IMPACT
1. Devices
a. Crushing Machines
2. Weights
------------
3. Heights (Falling)
a. Bridges
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: the Chemist
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:03:31 +0000
re Bridges vs Buildings
> At 150 meters there might not be much of a differance.
> Although your body will be washed clean of blood your
> head and trunk might be ruptured requiring your body
> to be taken out of the water in pieces.
better reasons:
1) lesser chance to hit anyone walking on the pavement.
Friend of mine jumped onto someone. She died, die is
now in jail for manslaughter
2) less junk on the pavement. remember all thos little
children walking there and seeing your skull from the
inside. Trauma's and stuff
3) no chance on falling on anything soft like bushes
or trees. If there is something there, it's usually
harder than water and called a boat.
-----------------------------------------------------
b. Buildings
To:boboroshi@satanservice.org (in IRC)
From: parasite3@hotmail.com:
Date: November 6, 1997
jump from radio towers; use carpet to get over
barbed wire.
c. Planes
----------------------------------------------------------
4. Vehicles
a. Trains
To: soc.culture.japan,alt.suicide.holiday
From: Charles M Richmond
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 09:27:52 -0400
>> Jumping in front of trains seems to be pretty
>> reliable here. Over the span of just three
>> months, between Tachikawa and Kichijoji on the
>> Chuo line (a very small section of that line),
>> we had 17 "jumpers" in 1995.
>>
>> In those cases the family must pay huge fines
>> according to how long the trains are down for
>> maintainance and clean-up after the suicide, so
>> it punishes and shames the family quite
>> effectively. It's not very Kevorkian.
>
> are you serious?? the families have to pay?
> why? how are _they_ deemed responsible when
> often its just society-at-large that pushes one
> "over the edge"? i don't understand the
> justification here... wow...families paying
> for how long commuters are inconvenienced...
> thats both hilarious and frightening.
It is true and it has also been very effective in
reducing the number of train jumpers. From the
Japanese government standpoint, one 'jumper'
during rush hour has an economic cost of millions.
100s/yr has a real impact. The point of the
legislation was to try to control the method of
choice more than it was to stop suicides or punish
families. Even so when the head of the oil cleanup
from the norhthern oil spill 'fell' in front of a
train, it was reported as an accident. Maybe they
did not fine his family.
---------------------------------------------------
b. Trucks
E. COMBINATION
1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump)
------------------------------------------------------
2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag)
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org
the Hemlock Society (which supports the right of the
terminally-ill to die -- the contact I spoke with said
that they had few objections to general suicide support
but are working on the terminally-ill rights first)
says that the rubber band method may cause sufficient
discomfort such that an alternative is recommended:
placing a pillow on top of the front of the bag on
one's chest. I am not aware of the failure rate of
either method. I have heard stories of people who
ended up getting their fingers under the rubber bands
and thwarting their own attempt in part because of the
discomfort of the method employed.
-------------------------------------------------------
anonymous:
I think bags alone will always result in
labored-breathing, much like when underwater (say, with
weights attached to ankles). it requires an iron will
and a supreme display of self-control that overcomes
autonomic self-rescue responses. this is why
depressants are used in combination -- to overcome
these responses and diffuse the pain of the breathing
problems.
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: tagtraeumer
>> So here is my improved method.
>> First of all, I will take 340 mg of valium (Stesolid,
>> so no pills, but rectioles) to lower the heartbeat
>> and relax the muscles.
>>
>> Then I will enjoy about one and a half litre of Vodka
>> (according to the post on lethal overdose I will need
>> roundabout that).
>>
>> To finish it all off I will use the band and bag
>> method.
>
>That combination is kinda difficult - you may find that
>you'll be too out of it all of a sudden (in my case it
>unexpectedly hit me - not sure what happened afterwards
>and when people told me about it it didn't seem at all
>familiar... I was unable to recognise anyone and had to
>ask who people were every two minutes or so). Then
>there is always the problem of holding it all down...
>1,5l of vodka is fine, but the problem is drinking
>it all! Not sure I could. Not without being violently
>sick after the first .75 l anyway!
The violent sickness probably begins hours later (when
most of the alcohol hopefully has left the stomach...)
but unfortunately the narcotic effect sets in very soon
and makes it impossible to use bag and band properly.
After taking the valium and drinking half the quantity
you'll be half unconscious.
I would feel much more secure if I could combine it
with a situation that ensures death in any case, i.e.
to drink myself silly in a leaking boat in a cold night
is really a tempting idea to me.
Another (stupid or not?) variant is to stand with the
noose around your neck and instead of kicking the chair
(on which you stand) off keep drinking until you
collapse.
-----------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: selfdeath@aol.com (Selfdeath)
Date: 7 Aug 1997 09:30:13 GMT
>> If I were to take enough sleeping pills and
>> then put a plastic bag over my head while
>> I'm drifting off to sleep, would the sleeping
>> pills ensure that I wouldn't wake up once
>> their isn't enough oxygen in the bag? I
>> don't want to take enough sleeping pills to
>> kill me, just enough so that I could sleep
>> through the suffocation. Thanks.
>
>This is the exact method I tried - two problems
>arose: first time round, I waited for about
>twenty minutes for the sleepers (Temazepam) to
>reach maximum effect, and accidentaly fell
>asleep for four hours. I then topped them off
>with a couple more, then tried the plastic bag,
>but even though I was drowsy, I still managed
>to panic and get up enough adrenaline to partly
>rip the bag off my head (it was tied on with a
>length of rope round the neck), whereupon I fell
>unconscious and was discovered by a guy walking
>his dog and taken to hospital.
>
>I believe the method's sound - just needs a
>little reworking...
It's nice to hear other's attempt at this
particular method (my favorite method). Just
today I saw someone on tv who died from this method
(read "Suicide on LAPD show" for details). My
problems were about the same as yours regarding
the panic. Though drugged with diphenhydramine and
vodka, I couldn't help but pull the rubber band
from my neck....
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals
From: shell_@usa.net
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:43:27 -0800
> > I have actually taken about 30 OTCs tablets before
> > (not sure what kind). I fell asleep for a long time
> > and then I woke up and found out I was starving so
> > I ate some food and got right back to sleep. I had
> > a weird sensation in my head that would make me
> > feel sleepy so I slept a lot for the rest of the
> > week or so. Generally I believe OTCs along won't work.
> > My next attempt will pobably be OTCs + bag/band +
> > alchohol. Hope this helps.
> Thank you for the input! My plan is exactly OTCs + bag
> and band + alchohol.
>
> I have the following question for you, and please make
> your best guess according to your experience: is
> deep-sleep induced by a high doesage of OTCs sufficient
> to avoid panic reaction to the "bag and band" method?
>
> I fear that if the deep-sleep is not deep enough, my
> reflexes might do something like ripping the bag open
> and such.
Believe it or not, I just tried OTCs + bag and band+
alchohol not very long ago and failed. OTCs is simply
not strong enough and fast enough. I can not fell asleep
for two reasons: the uncomfortableness caused by putting
the bag on me, and the urge to vomit.
It is not only when I rip the bag open and waited for the
feeling of throwing up to go away did I fell asleep. I
could have taken more dosage and drink more alchohol but
I doubt I can hold it down all in my stomach that way. I
have to disgard this method and go for others.
----------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: barbfreak@aol.com (BarbFreak)
Date: 12 Jan 1998 19:38:04 GMT
Well said.....OTCs don't work well with the bag because
even though they are sedatives they aren't strong enough
to suppress your response to CO2 buildup in the bag.
Even benzodiazepines like halcion, restoril, valium etc
don't really work well with the bag for the same reason...
unless you take a massive dose accompanied by lots of
booze. Benzos(and alcohol of course) also have a
tendency to produce nausea in overdose. The meds that
work best with the bag are the barbiturates
(secobarbital, pentobarbital, phenobarbital, etc)
because they do directly suppress your brain's response
to CO2. They are also less likely to induce nausea/vomiting.
------------------------------------------------------
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Uncletom"
Date: 18 Jul 1997 14:47:19 GMT
Preferably to be carried out on a long, wide
stretch of dirt road, with plenty of BIG trees
in the area.
Supplies: 500 feet of 3/4" rope
Car, with at least a 286 6 banger,
good tires. Known for excellent
reliability, pick-up.
Case of beer, various tranquilizers.
1. Do up! Load up and party.
2. Tie one end of the rope SECURLY to a HUGE tree.
3. Make a nice hangmans noose in the other end of
the rope.
4. Get in the car, run the rope in, and buckle-up.
IT'S THE LAW! Tighten down real tight on your
straps now boys and girls for maximum effectiveness.
5. All buckled in nice and secure? Well, now just
put that ol hangmans noose around your little
neck, and pull the damn thing up tight.
TIP: If you have a truck with a rear sliding
window USE IT.
6. Ladies and gents start your motors! All set?
GO LIKE HELL!!!!
----------------------------------------------------
3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/
leaky boat in cold water)
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: "Trevor (Not Trevor)"
>: Any thoughts on the old trick of kicking the radio
>: into the bathtub? Even with modern breaker boxes,
>: will the current last long enough?
>
>I am not sure weither any current would actually go
>through your body (heart) to kill you. Seen it in
>movies, but don't know if it actually works.
I've come across very few suicides that have succeeded
this way, but have found more than a few notable stories
of suicidal types who have tried this method and blown
the fuses...
Factory worker Peter Ditert was a German case of
repeated serious attempts, last time I read he had
notched up number 10 after being discovered after
an OD on 60 unspecified sleeping pills. Other attempts
include - rat poison (puked), gunshot to head (gun
jammed), and the hair-drier in the bath method in
question. It blew the fuse....
Then there's 46 year old ex-miner Alan Unwin from
Sunderland, UK. He tried to kill himself 7 times
after his wife left him, including the 'shake hands
with Jesus' method - he wrapped himself in wire and
jumped in the tub before plugging in. The fuse
blew and he suffered minor electric shock. Most
drastic, BTW, was his 6th attempt, where he broke a
gas pipe in his bedroom and lay down, waiting for
death. Fed up of waiting, he lit a match... this
blew out all the windows, part of the roof and the
gable end of his house. He was pulled from the
wreckage with minor flash burns.... a year later
he was a much more cheerful man and back on speaking
terms with his estranged wife! Go figure...
------------------------------------------------------
F. MYTHS
1. air vein-injection (??)
2. body paint (Goldfinger)
3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool)
4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.)
------------------------------------------------------
5. head in oven (gasphyxiation)
To: alt.suicide.methods
From: ppoint@gloryroad.net
Subject: Re: Gas
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:42:48 -0500
> In my house we have a gas oven.
> How lethal is this gas?
> If I were to wait till everyone was asleep
> and then channelled the gas as effeiciently
> as I could into my lungs how long would it
> take for me to die?
Here is the info from Section III - Health Information
on LP Gas, which is not natural gas. If you house has
tanks, it is LP Gas. If there is no tank anywhere
outside, it is most likely natural gas.
INHALATION: Asphyxiant in high concentrations due to
dillution of available oxygen. At excessive vapor
concentrations, this product has anesthetic,
asphyxiating properties and may cause sleepiness. At
levels above 100,000ppm, propane is mildly irritating
to the respiratory tract and may result in dizziness,
headache, drowsiness, nausea, shortness of breath,
muscular incoordination, excessive salivation,
disorientation, vomiting, and excitation. In extreme
cases, convulsions, unconsciousness and death may
occur as a result of asphyxiation.
Most home LP gas stoves have a gas regulator that
will not open the gas valve unless the pilot light
is lit. If the pilot is lit and gas begins flowing
it automatically ignites. If the pilot is not lit,
gas won't flow out. It is a safety catch-22 that
reduces the possibility for a house filling with
gas if the knob is turned on.
Propane (LP gas) freezes when it is allowed to escape
quickly and become a vapor (released from its tank).
If you tried to re-route the gas line into yourself,
you would be horribly burned by super-cold temperatures.
Gas regulators allow it to escape slowly enough under
a few pounds of pressure so that the jet doesn't ice up.
At least this is my rudimentary knowledge and
experience with it.
I recommend abandoning that idea.
===============================================
REFERENCES:
To: alt.suicide.holiday
From: eurasiaguy@aol.com (EurasiaGuy)
Date: 18 Dec 1997 05:39:58 GMT
re _Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey:
>Does anyone have or has anyone read this book?
>If so, please help me. I really need to go on
>a nice, warm, suicide holiday.
I read it out of sheer curiosity...interesting book and
a great intro for people looking for a way out. But
most will find it disappointing because it tells you
what you should take but doesn't give concrete advice
on how to get it. It is also gives very inconsistent
advice on dosages etc. But who said suicide is an
exact science? I recommend "Departing Drugs"...a much
better and more accurate book which is also based on
ongoing research. You have to be a member of a Right
to Die organization to get it though.
-----------------------------------------------------
NOTES:
References
_Departing Drugs_, by Chris G. Docker and Cheryl K. Smith;
write and join the Right to Die Society of Canada and
purchase a book without waiting; less than $20, 60pgs.
_Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey, most major bookstores.
_Uncle Fester's Silent Death_, published by Loompanics
Unlimited for homebrew toxins and other methods.
-------------------------------------------------------
from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm
Precautions Concerning Use of Euthanatizing Agents in Animals
Intended For Human or Animal Food
In euthanasia of animals intended for human or animal food,
agents that result in tissue residues cannot be used, unless
they are approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.
Carbon dioxide is the only chemical currently used in
euthanasia of food animals (primarily swine) that does not
lead to tissue residues.
__________________________________________________________
Agents and methods of euthanasia by species
Species: Non-human primates
I. Acceptable (Refer to Table 2)
Barbiturates
II. Conditionally acceptable (Refer to Table 3)
Inhalant anesthetics, CO, CO2, N2, Ar
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