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WITNESS #5 TESTIMONY
NOW, THE LOCATION OF WHAT YOU SAW WAS WHERE?
Here in Summerfield.
NOW WHERE IS THAT IN RELATIONISHIP TO LEBANON, OR—
Four miles [unintelligible] be actually to the east.
OK, I THINK I SEE WHERE IT IS.
OK, put you on a line, I don't know if you, if you had them other sightings or not, where Highland is, we're south, pretty well straight south of Highland and east of Lebanon.
OK, I SEE, I THINK I SEE WHERE YOU ARE. NOW YOU SAW IT ON WHAT DATE?
Gee, what was that?
WELL, WHAT DAY WAS IT?
Yeah, it's funny. My days are all mixed up. [To wife with him:] What date was that we got that— that date, the date on that? Tuesday, Wednesday? It was the same day as Barton's and Ford's. [unintelligible background conversation]
WAS IT WEDNESDAY NIGHT, THURSDAY MORNING?
Wednesday morning. I don't worry about what day it is. 'Til next Monday I don't go back to work and I didn't —
WHAT TIME WAS IT, ABOUT?
About 4:30 in the morning.
Well, I heard the police report of the county dispatchers — my wife's an EMT — and so her radio scans and also picks up Lebanon's police reports and I heard 'em talking about it, dispatch and the officer from Lebanon, and he was north of Lebanon by the time he got his first call. And he came out toward, he said he was gonna go out towards Summerfield 'til he saw it and he was out this way. So, I was — shoot, I'm just gonna get up and go out and see what I see. And just as I got out, it was overhead and to the, kinda to the west of, or southwest of my home here.
SOUTHWEST OF WHERE YOU WERE?
Yeah, right here in Summerfield.
But heading toward, over to the southern end of Lebanon.
IT WAS HEADING SOUTH?
Well, it was west, it was actually to the, it was heading west.
HEADING WEST, OK.
NOW, HOW LONG DID YOU SEE IT FOR? HOW LONG DID YOU WATCH IT FOR?
It was done, more than direct overhead from here, and I just watched it for, maybe a couple minutes, there's a bunch of trees in my yard and it was cold, so whenever it got out of sight from here, I came back in the house, and there was no more than a, maybe a minute-and-a-half, two minutes.
OK. ONE-AND-A-HALF TO TWO MINUTES. THE WEATHER, YOU SAID, WAS COLD. WERE THERE, WAS IT CLOUDY, OR—
I just, it was pretty clear that night, or that morning. There were stars out, I could see some stars, and I seen some other planes flying overhead, way up.
DID YOU REPORT THIS SIGHTING TO ANYBODY ELSE?
No, not then. But, like I said, I hear all the stuff on the wife's EMS radio and, which picks up the police reports, so I, you know, just to my wife was the only one I said anything to. Of course, you know, a lot of what I hear, you know, you don't wanna be talking about until it comes out somewhere else.
YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.
So I just kinda kept my mouth closed about it, and told my wife when she asked me where I'd been whenever I came back in the house and I told her I was out looking at a UFO and then she listened at the radio for a little bit and that's when it went on over toward Shiloh and Milstadt, Dupo and—
DID SHE SEE THE THING? OR WAS THAT JUST YOU?
No, just myself, and she was in, just heard, she just heard the rest of the, the radio conversation with the police officers.
OK. I WANTED TO GET A DESCRIPTION FROM YOU OF THE NUMBER OF UFOs YOU SAW AT THAT TIME.
The only one I, it was, was the big, one big object, and I couldn't tell, there was a light behind, I couldn't tell if the thing come to a tail back there or not, but there was one light behind.
OK. HOW, WHAT SORT OF A SHAPE WAS IT THAT YOU SAW?
It reminded me of, I watch on TV quite a bit, on Channel 37, Discovery and such as that, the, what they call the wing, you, series number, the flying wing, the military was messing with several years ago. And that's what it looked like, it looked like it was a, just a big closed end on the backside, boomerang-type thing. It was enormous, headed toward the front, it was triangular more than, they put a picture of that stealth thing, that blimp stealth, and it's, to me, that, no. It was wider on the back than what that is.
SO YOU THINK IT WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE STEALTH BLIMP?
Right. It was wider from side to side
WHAT COLOR WAS IT, THAT YOU COULD SEE?
I couldn't tell a color. It was dark and all I could see was a bulk of an object, like I said, I couldn't even tell if it came to a point, you know, only thing I could see was like a perimeter of the lights, that was on it.
WHAT SPEED WAS IT GOING AT?
Well, I would compare it to, [unintelligible] I've been out on the highway and watching the big cargo carriers, C5s, that landed, it was going at the speed of about whenever a C5 is coming in to land.
SO IT WAS ABOUT THE SAME AS A C5 COMING IN TO LAND?
As far as speed, yeah. But it was quiet. You could hear noise, but very quiet noise.
NOW WHAT KIND OF NOISE WAS IT?
Similar to a, a very fine-tuned car engine, it wasn't a roar, say a good, smooth-running V8 engine that you'd be hearing say 30, 40 feet away, you know. Just a good smooth running fine-tuned engine, you know.
OK. GIVE ME AN APPROXIMATION OF THE SIZE OF WHAT YOU SAW, THE APPROXIMATE SIZE.
Wow. [unintelligible] It's kinda hard to estimate it, like I said it was about a thousand foot up, I'd say, probably.
YOU THINK IT WAS A THOUSAND FEET IN THE AIR?
AND IF YOU WANTED TO COMPARE IT TO AN AIRLINER THAT WAS GOING OVER, WAS IT BIGGER OR SMALLER?
Larger, way larger than that.
WAY LARGER THAN AN AIRLINER?
Yeah. It was, you know, going back to the C5 thing, of seeing them things coming in to land, I, from whip to whip on that, it'd be, I'd say probably three times.
THREE TIMES THE SIZE OF A C5?
On their, yeah, two anyway.
OK. NOW YOU SAID IT HAD A BRIGHT LIGHT.
SEVERAL BRIGHT LIGHTS?
Yeah. I didn't think, like I said it was cold that night, I was standing there without a coat, [unintelligible] the lights, I don't know how many there was, but there was—
QUITE A FEW?
— six or eight around the, you know, each side and from what I could make of it, nothing across the rear.
OK. DID IT FLY OVER YOU? DID IT PASS OVER YOU?
It was done over passed —
WHEN YOU SAW IT?
— when I got out, went outside, yeah.
So it was on its way, leaving.
OK. AND SO IT DISAPPEARED, YOU SAID IT DISAPPEARED BEHIND SOME TREES?
OK. TREES. YOU FIGURE IT WAS ABOUT A THOUSAND FEET FROM YOU?
Yeah. [unrelated comments]
YEAH, I'M JUST GOING THROUGH THESE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO DO, AND I KNOW IT'S PROBABLY NOT THAT EASY TO REMEMBER ALL THESE DETAILS.
Yeah, my wife's got me into this [unintelligible]
I said my wife got me into this! Like I said, I kept my mouth shut about it, 'cause everybody, you know, they say 'hey you're a lunatic' and then what I did tell, the next day I asked my buddy, he's on the fire department, I asked him did he have his radio scan, and he said no, and he says why, and like I told him, the other day, I thought it was the next day, that's the only one I told about it, you know, and then, he never did say anything there 'til it came back around from the police department, they'd saw it. Anyway, what was amazing was it just came out like a couple days ago on the TV, you know—
YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, IT WAS ON THE TV.
— and [unintelligible] that morning and the lady works in there every morning, she saw it and says 'well I don't guess you are crazy, are you?' because they done, my buddy up there talked, the police departments had talked about and let it out, he told them up there that I'd saw it and nobody, you know, still at that point nobody believed it 'til it came out across the news.
DID IT CHANGE DIRECTION AT ALL?
OK. WAS IT EVER STATIONARY WHEN YOU SAW IT? OR WAS IT ALL THE TIME MOVING?
It was all the time moving, continuously.
OK. SO YOU FIGURE IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THAT NIGHT, WAS NO CLOUDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
No. Like I said, I saw some other planes flying up higher, you know.
AT THE SAME TIME?
Yeah. There was some airplanes to the north of us here, flying, and that's another thing was, the, I was listening to the Cen Comm which is the dispatcher for the county police department and such, they was talking, said that Lambert, but this was after this, a sighting on over towards Dupo, in that vicinity, said Lambert Airport in St. Louis wasn't picking up anything on their radar, you know. So I figured, OK it's some kind of military deal that, and they're just keeping it hush-hush. I never did hear them say anything about Scott, if they, if anybody else from out there, their controllers had anything on it, or anything on radar.
YEAH. WERE THERE ANY ANIMALS AROUND, DO YOU HAVE A DOG?
No, I don't.
YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANY ANIMALS BARKING, OR ANYTHING UNUSUAL?
I didn't, no. There was dogs over here, I'm so used to hearing them I usually don't pay any attention to them barking anyway, but the best I remember they wasn't even—
THEY WEREN'T BARKING?
NOW DID THIS LEAVE ANY CONTRAIL WHEN IT WAS MOVING?
No. Not like an airplane, no.
NO. OK. HOW ABOUT, DID IT AFFECT, DO YOU THINK IT AFFECTED ANY LIGHTS INSIDE YOUR HOUSE, OR DID IT AFFECT YOUR WATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
OK. HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING IT?
Well, not really anything. It was just, you know, like I said so much of it goes on around here with Scott Air Force Base, anything's flying I figure it's something the military was doing and it was like wow, look how big that thing is, you know, and I just figured that it was something that they was flying.
OK. SO IF YOU WERE GOING TO BALLPARK THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THIS THING AND YOU, THE NEAREST THAT IT WAS, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
FROM WHERE YOU WERE STANDING—
OK. It was probably a thousand feet up and, let me go back outside [unintelligible] a space of how far out, looking up between those trees, would be probably, probably 800 feet over that way, probably 800 feet out and 900 to a thousand feet up.
THAT WAS PRETTY CLOSE, THEN.
Yeah, actually, yeah. But like I said, I just seen a bulk of a something big and the lights.
OK. NOW, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYTHING UNUSUAL BEFORE IN YOUR LIFE? LIKE FLYING, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
No, except for meteors or something like that, those little tadpoles fly through the air at nighttime, you know. Falling stars, whatever you wanna call it.
OK. WOULD YOU MIND IF WE HAD AN INVESTIGATOR CALL YOU BACK IF WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET AS MANY PEOPLE, APART FROM THOSE POLICE OFFICERS, WHO SAW SOMETHING THAT NIGHT.
I just don't want everybody thinking EYEWITNESS #2 nuts 'cause I saw it too. I ain't talked to him since that night [unintelligible]
WELL HE HAD A GOOD VIEW OF IT.
Yeah, he was on the road between there and here and actually he's more open coming out Highway 50 than what I am here looking back 'cause I got that fence and trees and the tree line is right on over past there too. So, the tree line's pretty quick.
OK. WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE THEN YOU SAW THE SAME THING AS THESE OFFICERS.
It fit then pretty close, but and well the thing is, that whenever it was put on TV, I think my son, he said there it is and you know by then, we talked about it here at home, and picked a notebook up, kinda sketched or whatever. I told my wife about it, we was talking about it the next morning, having a cup of coffee, and like I said I couldn't, you know, I couldn't tell what it was like on the tail end of it, kinda [unintelligible] it all in and there was just an artist's sketch come up on TV, there wasn't no picture of it, told my son [unintelligible] you know, it was relatively close.
OH SO YOU DREW A PICTURE OF IT TOO?
Yeah, just kind of a sketch.
IS THERE ANY WAY WE COULD GET A COPY OF THAT, IF YOU FAXED IT TO US?
Well, yeah, I've got it here somewhere, I don't know what I might have done with it. I hope he didn't take it, they was talking about it —
My son said he was gonna take that to school. Now I hope he didn't. Yeah, you got a fax number I can get it to if I can get to a fax machine —
[arrangements are made to fax the sketch]
[end of tape]
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