This part contains the letters written in both languages - English and Polish. My comments (if any) are threaded in the text. The colors: text of letters - blue, my comments to the text - black with white MK in front, general comments - white.
1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The letter in regard to the
announcement of "KU 37" in <soc.culture.polish> group (it was sent by
me as mail copy to all involved), received not directly but by intermediate
person.
Subject:
Fwd: Polish Round Table (5)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:55:46 EDT
From:
PONIECKA@aol.com
To: miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
Panie Mirku,
Przesylam wedlug prosby p. Binkowskiego
Hania
---------------------------------------------
Subject: Polish Round Table (5)
Date: Wed, 28
Apr 1999 17:49:50 EDT
From: RSelimaj@aol.com
To:
baporter@umich.edu, PONIECKA@aol.com
CC: donb@ioa.com
Dear Prof and Maryann,
I don't know that Krupinski's interpretation is logical. Since I don't (know) enough about the subject, I can't really make that many judgments.
However, I believe that he is reading his bias into many comments because of his intense hatred of Jaruzelski and the Communists. As I've indicated, Jaruzelski was only one part of the negotiations. What transpired after the elections and the collapse of Communism is not germane as to the success or failure of the Round Table. Without a transcript of the Conference, I don't know how anyone who was not there can jump to conclusions and decide that there was some "propaganda."
MK: There are two significant proofs: First - it is that lack of mentioned transcript, which should be published by the Organizers in existing web site of the Conference (why they suddenly became mute?). Second - the contents of the Don's letter sent initially "behind the stage/scene to Mrs. Poniecka (first letter in part A). The letter was evidently a result of the conference.
(In Polish: Sa na to dwa istotne dowody: Pierwszy to wlasnie brak tego sprawozdania, ktorego opublikowanie na specjalnej, istniejacej, witrynie konferencji powinno byc obowiazkiem organizatorow. Drugi to ow pierwszy list samego Dona (pierwszy list w czesci A), wysylany niejako poza kulisami do p. Ponieckiej i bedacy wyraznie wynikiem udzialu w konferencji.)
The collapse came through peaceful negotiations and elections. I am not concerned who gets any credit as such.
MK: I am. So more - I am concerned that it was a deception and how is the long term result of it for the Polish nation and economy of Poland..
(In Polish: Ja jestem. Co wiecej - martwi mnie ze bylo to oszustwo i jaki dlugoterminowy wplyw ma ono na polskie spoleczenstwo i gospodarke)
Maryann, please forward this to Miroslaw and please indicate that I made an error in Prof. Porter's e-mail address which must contain an "a," as above.
Don Binkowski
In the letter was fully quoted text of my <s.c.p.> anouncement, copy of which I had sent to Don and other involved at the time of publication:
Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:13:54 GMT
Subject: NEW "KRAJ UTRACONY" - MICHIGAN
The new, 37th issue of "Kraj Utracony" has been published and is accessible under URL given below the signature. It contains discussion with the participant of the Conference in Ann Arbor, not Polish speaking American of Polish origin.
That case convinced me that by discussing our Polish affairs only in Polish language - we are leaving many of our people, who lost or never acquired Polish language skills in the dark or in the hands of the procommunists. The old, language skilled propaganda apparatus, supported by ever red diplomats and associates abroad are utilising that vacuum for they own old purposes.
The good example of such situation was the conference in Michigan where the Round Table celebrities were flooding audience with multilanguage self advertising propaganda without any competition. The influence of such propaganda is clearly visible in the discusssion presented in the current "KU"
New "KU" is divided into two parts - the first
one contains initial correspondence leeding to the contact with the expressing
his opinion participant; the second part contains direct discussion
representing two different points of view (the
one of them along the lines of the conference).
The parts are published separatelly and connected by links.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowy "KU 37", dostepny ze swego stalego adresu URL (podanego w podpisie) zawiera dyskusje z uczestnikiem Konferencji w Ann Arbor. Moj korespondent jest Amerykaninem polskiego pochodzenia, nie znajacym jezyka polskiego.
Przypadek ten przekonal mnie iz dyskutujac nasze
polskie sprawy wylacznie w rodzimym jezyku - pozostawiamy na uboczu tych
wszystkich Rodakow zyjacych poza krajem, ktorzy jezyk Polski
zapomnieli lub nie mieli okazji sie go nauczyc.
Luke te wykorzystuje stara, ciagle sprawnie dzialajaca propaganda rodem
z PRLu, biegla w jezykach i wspomagana przez ciagle te same, wiecznie czerwone,
sluzby dyplomatyczne.
Dobrym przykladem takiej sytuacji byla wlasnie konferencja w Michigan, gdzie serwowano znakomicie przygotowane jezykowo i sprawnie podane jednostronne informacje, slawiace "zbawcow Ojczyzny" z Magdalenki. Nawiasem dodam gloszona tam teze iz to wlasnie w Magdalence AD'89 obalono swiatowy komunizm, otwierajac swiatu droge do szczescia i pojednania (z obalonymi),
Numer KU sklada sie z dwoch czesci - pierwszej
zawierajacej korespondencje wiodaca do ustalenia kontaktu z wymienionym
uczestnikiem konferencji i druga czesc bedaca bezposrednia
z nim dyskusja. Ta druga czesc jest w calosci
angielskojezyczna (jezeli moj jezyk mozna tak nazwac).
Czesci publikowane sa oddzielnie i polaczone linkami
Zapraszam.
Miroslaw Krupinski
http://worf.albanyis.com.au/~matuzal/Pegaz.htm
http://www.fullcomp.com.au/~miroslaw/KRAJ_UTRACONY.htm
2. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Pozdrowienia z CA
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999
17:43:56 PDT
From: "Darius Zamojski" <darius101@hotmail.com>
To:
miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
Szanowny i drogi Panie Miroslawie,
Przeczytalem z uwaga tresc Pana dyskusji z Panem Donem o Konferencji w Ann Arbor,MI i popieram Pana glos, ktory jest rowniez moim glosem. Bardzo podobala mi sie Pana polemika utrzymana na wysokim poziomie pomimo ze temat jest goracy. Osobiscie podpisuje sie pod wszystkim co Pan tam powiedzial. Miejmy nadzieje, ze Don zobaczy w koncu swiatlo w ciemnym tunelu z Magdalenki. W dyskusji padlo nazwisko Michnika, ktorego mi przedstawiono na festiwalu Cz.Milosza w '98. Wiem kim On jest, jakich ma nowych przyjaciol, jaka sile ma teraz w kraju i zgadzam sie z Panem, ze tacy jak On dla wladzy i majatku sprzedadza dusze "diablu". Jest On serdecznym przyjacielem Milosza, ktorego czuje jako metafizycznego Poete. Zastanawiam sie co Milosz w nim widzi? Dwukrotnie mialem okazje przekonac sie co Milosz widzi we mnie, ale o tym moze innym razem.
(usunieta nie zwiazana z tematem czesc tekstu listu)
Wszystkiego najlepszego, Panie Miroslawie.
Pozdrawiam,
Dariusz Zamojski
Ps. Moj starszy brat Andrzej(45) byl internowany we Wroclawiu w '81.
3. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: An article about the conference
:)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999
19:12:15 EDT
From: PONIECKA@aol.com
To:
miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
CC: donb@ioa.com,
RSelimaj@aol.com
Hello, Mr. Binkowski and Mr. Krupinski!
I'm checking the Internet to see if there is any news of the Ann Arbor conference. Here's a copy of one article (I'm still looking :).
More later,
Maryann (Hania)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polish president visits U. Michigan
(Michigan Daily) (U-WIRE) ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- With the help of a translator and headphones, more than 500 people from across the world understood the universal language of peaceful compromise.
Aleksander Kwasniewski, the president of Poland, visited Michigan University on Saturday, to participate exclusively in a conference sponsored by the University of Michigan's Center for Russian and East European Studies.
The conference, titled "Communism's Negotiated Collapse: The Polish Round Table, Ten Years Later," began Wednesday evening and concluded with Saturday's session in Rackham Auditorium.
The event commemorated the Polish Round Table talks of 1989, which peacefully ended 40 years of authoritarian rule and began the collapse of Communism across Eastern Europe. Kwasniewski shared his experience as a round table participant for the Communist Party, of which he was formerly a member.
The leader addressed the audience in Polish, but fielded questions form reporters in both Polish and English. Conference participants could listen to a translation of his comments through headphones.
Adam Michnik, Lech Kaczynski and Grazyna Staniszewska, former leaders of Poland's democratic Solidarity movement, also spoke about the historical round table talk as being a positive contribution to Polish history.
MK: I didn't meet or know such "former leaders of Poland's democratic Solidarity movement" as listed in that quotation. But I was only a Vice President of the Solidarity, not the journalist from "Michigan Daily" :).
Keep going - the World is in continuous need for the new history - the old one is useless.
The conference is "final proof that the round table is a part of history, " Kwasniewski said.
MK: As were II W.W., the communism and PRL ! Eureka!
He added that, in light of current world conflicts, the round table is "more important than ever" to demonstrate how to change nonviolently the form of government. "The round table is a lesson that should be used," he said.
MK: We already had had a similar experience from Targowica lesson...
Bishop Alojzy Orszulik, who represented the Catholic Church at the round table, commended both the Communist and Solidarity parties for their "bravery" in eliminating Communism and establishing a new government.
MK: Shouldn't it be: " their deception in renaming Communism, establishing asylum for post communists and the place for a new post communist government"?
University President Lee Bollinger made introductory remarks. Bollinger expressed the important lessons the Round Table can teach, saying, "this is why globalization is vital to the future of the University." (?)
After the session ended, President Kwasniewski held a press conference. When asked about the conflict in Kosovo, he said, "70 percent of Polish public opinion is in favor of NATO and NATO action."
Kwasniewski indicated his desire to have friendly relations with all his neighbors, but said, "it is difficult to have good relations with Russia in this time."
MK: Why? Where has gone the true spirit of Magdalenka and Michigan? We should invite Russians to Magdalenka (or Michigan), sit with them around the table and give them 2/3 of the seats in our government. Shouldn't we?
Or we already gave it? To their representatives. In 1989.
He indicated that Poland was prepared to commit ground troops to NATO action if it became necessary, saying, "if we want to guarantee peace for Poland, it is necessary to be involved in such missions."
Many attendees found the conference informative.
John John Jankowski, a citizen of both Poland and the United States, said the Round Table was the "most important turn in 1,000 years of Polish history."
MK: At last we have an explanation of the meaning of the word "turncoat" :)...
By the last half of century the Polish history has been written by Moscow. Now is written in Michigan. When comes the time to write it by Polish historians, under control and with approval of Polish nation?
For Jankowski, the conference was a way of experiencing the events of 1989, although he was not in Poland at the time.
Ronald Suny, a political science professor at the University of Chicago, said he will use information from the conference to enrich his classes.
MK: Shouldn't we donate to those students our old school history books from the PRL era? It should be a good background for such knowledge.
"I saw how badly the Soviet Union made the transition to Democracy, " Suny said. "I was just impressed and really stunned by the way Poland was able to manage it."
After Saturday's session, University history Prof. and panel moderator Brian Porter said the conference was "quite successful."
Porter said the conference met its most important goal, which was "to show both Poles and Americans that the complex issues of the round table were important to the rest of the world."
Porter said the conference, which took a year and a half to organize, was a major accomplishment for the University.
"We have now established that we have the strongest, most active Polish studies program in the nation," Porter said.
Porter said proving the strength of the Polish studies program to the president of Poland made the accomplishment especially satisfying.
MK: God
save the students, Michigan and USA ... I see that nothing changed since
1945 when, with a similar blessing of the USA, the West gave to Stalin
East Eropean cuntries..
Peacefully.
What the history brings us next?
--------------------------------------------
(C) 1999 Michigan Daily via U-WIRE
Ray Kania, Polish president visits U. Michigan.,
University Wire,
04-12-1999.
4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Article from Polonian press about
1989 Round Table talks
Date:
Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:25:58 EDT
From: PONIECKA@aol.com
To: miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
CC: Jack.Badura@wrightind.com, donb@ioa.com, RSelimaj@aol.com
Hello, Mr. Badura, Mr. Binkowski and Mr. Krupinski,
Sorry I forgot to copy you on the article about the Ann Arbor Conference, Mr. Badura :)
I thought this article from the Polonian press in March 1999 gave a less glowing opinion of the 1989 Round Table talks. And it doesn't even mention the conference in Ann Arbor!!! Why not?
More later,
Maryann (Hania)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Polish Suburban News
ISSUE nr 35, - March 1999
Round Table
A Forgotten Anniversary
by Bartlomiej W.,
Ten years ago, on Feb. 16, the ROUND TABLE negotiations between the Communist party which had exclusive political power in Poland, and the opposition, led by the Solidarity union, started in Warsaw. The subject of the talks was to consider a possibility of allowing the participation of democratic movement in Polish government. The price for entering negotiations was a possible division of power in the 35/65 ratio as the worst scenario for the communists.
The shape of the table, like in the Arthurian stories, had its symbolic meaning. None of the participants would consider himself more prominent than the others. "At this table," as the Solidarity leader, Lech Walesa said, "we must find a mutual agreement about what is most important to our Nation. First, however, we have to understand each other because communication can be achieved only based on truth, in other words, without hiding differences and borders between us."
As time passed, the event that played such
a significant role in the bloodless change of the political system,
gradually lost its special meaning, and consequently, sup-porters
from the Solidarity movement. Some maintain that, in the best instance,
it led to a political fiasco; the extremists made it a symbol of
a national treason since it wasted a chance to strip communists of
their influence on political and economical life of the
country.
"The Round Table was supposed to unite Poland, but, once change was accomplished, it actually brought out unreasonable and senseless divisions.
If Poland today is being reformed by the post-Solidarity coalition, in opposition to all the post-communists, it means the round table discussions and conflicts have found their justification, and its legacy can help us to unite in positive reforms," writes a prominent oppositionist and underground editor, Mr. Czeslaw Bielecki. Until 1993, activists and supporters of the Freedom Union, defended the idea of the Round Table. Later, however, this party also started to question the right of former communists to hold offices in Polish government, and some of its members considered the agreement with SLD (Union of left-winged Democrats) a moral mistake. On the other hand, the SLD, which until 1993 was legally in power, now seldom mentions the event that enabled them to stay on the political arena.
As a result, the Round Table, which to the entire world has become a symbol of Polish democracy, in the country of its origin remains a piece of furniture many politicians wish to forget. No wonder the government did not plan any celebrations to commemorate this " suspicious event," concentrating rather on the tenth anniversary of the first free election in the communist world which took place in June - although the election was a direct result of the Round Table negotiations. (On June 4, 1989, Polish communists - the Polish United Workers' Party - lost the election even though the Round Table contracts guaranteed them a majority of two-thirds of the seats in the Sejm for their candidates.)
Acknowledging the importance of the Round
Table treaties and celebrating their anniversary would mean that
all their participants are legitimate citizens of the III Rzeczpospolita.
The event from ten years ago is seen by the world as a model method
of demolishing a totalitarian system.
For Poles in Poland and abroad it is still a pretext to reanalyze
history and allow "what if" speculations.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright © 1996,99 Polish Suburban News ® All rights reserved
Polish Suburban News is a monthly paper in Polish
and English, features news about people, companies, small businesses, Polish
schools and organizations. PSN promotes Polish businesses and culture in
USA. PSN creates dynamic business opportunities through its advertising.
PSN is now available in all Polish stores as well as in most major supermarkets
in Chicago and costs
only $1.50 per copy. We also offer subscription.
5. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After publication of my comments
materials accessible by the two linhs"Quoting the Times" (they are at the
end of this page) - I had received the letter from Mr. Don Binkowski. I
am quoting it in full, to be followed by my reply.
Subject: Re: THE 1989 Round Table talks
Date: Sat, 1 May 1999
21:10:07 EDT
From: RSelimaj@aol.com
To:
miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
CC: baporter@umich.edu,
PONIECKA@aol.com, donb@ioa.com
Dear Miroslaw,
Somehow, we have to get on the same wave length to be able to communicate.
First and foremost, it seems that we can't freeze, at least for discussion purposes, the exact text of the negotiations in 1989; and stop there, for discussion purposes. This means that we do not discuss what happened afterwards because they are not germane to the discussion. Is this not possible?
After the initial elections, all sorts results could have occurred but they were not the result of the Round Table talks.
Do you disagree that the Round Table negotiations led to the collapse of communism in Poland?
As best as I can conclude and that's why Prof Porter must put in the Univ of Mich viewpoint, that was the gist of the Ann Arbor Conference period. The Conference, other than crediting the Poles for starting the collapse of Communism in central and eastern europe did not go beyond this.
They tried to focus on the above and not on subsequent events that appear to disturb you but they cannot either logically or pragmatically be connected DIRECTLY to the Round Table, in the absence of some credible evidence.
As best as I can determine, and again, I am not the final authority, we have to try to proceed rationally, like engineers, from point 1 to point 2, etc. To start with, we have to agree on point 1. What can we agree upon as the starting point?
Don Binkowski
After this letter I had closed
our discussion with the letter quoted below:
6. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: THE 1989 Round Table talks
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 09:48:55 +0800
From: Miroslaw Krupinski <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
Organization: consulting engineer
To: RSelimaj@aol.com
CC: baporter@umich.edu, PONIECKA@aol.com, donb@ioa.com
References: 1
Dear Don,
You wrote:
> Somehow, we have to get on the same wave length to be able to communicate.
> First and foremost, it seems that we can't freeze,
at least for discussion purposes, the exact text > of the negotiations
in 1989; and stop there, for discussion purposes. This means
that we do not > discuss what happened afterwards because they are
not germane to the discussion. Is this not
> possible?
> After the initial elections, all sorts results could have occurred but they were not the result of the > Round Table talks.
That election, which if I remember you have called "first democratic election" was all but not democratic and not really election, Don. There were already determined quotas of the representatives and the future president, and thereof the further domination of the communists. It was a forced hoax not election. And there were no honorable intention in the communists proposals - their goals were to survive, to pass responsibilities for their crimes and whole mess to the new, stupid, partners, and to remain as the rulers. Most of that they achieved, and as a bonus they managed to disable politically the nation, offended by the behavior of the people (opposition) they believed till then.
So i will reverse here your words:
> If you can't see and understand that - how we can discuss the subject?
- and I will end our private discussion as nonproductive. You are new in the subject and you are "Michigan educated in that subject" - I was a part of events which led to the unfortunate end of the honest opposition in Poland by the event called "Round Table".
Of course I will continue updating my "Kraj Utracony" if I find future worth of quoting materials. I understand, that we were exchanging our opinion and that it not necessary must end with finding consensus.
My best wishes to you, Don.
Miroslaw.
--
Miroslaw M. Krupinski
http://worf.albanyis.com.au/~matuzal/index.htm
http://www.fullcomp.com.au/~miroslaw/KRAJ_UTRACONY.htm
LETTERS OF CONCLUSION
7. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: THE 1989 Round Table talks
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:03:29 -0400
From: "Don Binkowski" <donb@ioa.com>
To: "Miroslaw Krupinski" <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
References: 1 , 2
Dear Miroslaw,
Your condescending note below leaves me disappointed -- in Poles who lack either the integrity or the capacity to engage in an intellectual dialogue with someone who does not agree with them 100% on every particular point.
You have not responded to any of my queries, which is your right. But, then, there cannot be any meaningful dialogue. You even refused to state on what point we can agree.
According to your web pages, you voluntarily left Poland in 1987 and you have chosen not to return. You stated that you had no plans or suggestions in 1987 to solve their problems. You were not in Poland in 1989 and I have not seen anything that you wrote about the Round Table in 1989 or 1990. Since that time, have you, like St. Paul, had a Divine vision that has provided you with all of the solutions to Poland's problems?
When you will ever stop running?
The response below reminds me of my grandfather's attitude: "Roma locuta; causa finita." But, then, you haven't been chosen to be the Pope.
If you're only comfortable about discussing issues with others who agree 100% of the time with you, best of luck.
Happy to have been born and raised in Michigan, Don Binkowski
(there was attached the full quotation of my previous letter published above as # 6)
8. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Fw: ANN ARBOR CONFERENCE
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999
11:42:23 -0400
From: "Don Binkowski" <donb@ioa.com>
To:
<miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
Dear Miroslaw,
Sorry that all of us Americans have a different view. Too bad that it is not possible to see the other side, which is interpreted by sincere, honest Polish Americans, who, like the Pope, believe in reconciliation. Some even believe in forgiveness. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael and Carol Dunn <dunn@bright.net>
To: Don Binkowski <donb@ioa.com>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: ANN ARBOR CONFERENCE
> Hi Don, I agree with you, communism had to go
first. Their argument makes no
> sense, that would be like sending the bridegroom
on his honeymoon with his
> parents. Be that as it may, in any Polish
gathering you have to include the clergy.
> Try re-reading Michener's Poland and
see what I mean.....................
> Did you have a good time? How's the traffic
on binkowski.org?
>Carol
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Binkowski <donb@ioa.com>
> To: Carol Dunn <dunn@bright.net>
> Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 7:07 PM
> Subject: Fw: ANN ARBOR CONFERENCE
> >DEAR Carol,
> >I'm back in N.C.
> >Here are some views, which the Right Wing
does not agree.
> >You be the judge.
> >Don
(there was attached the copy of the first
letter published in part "A")
9. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Fw: A book about those nice Commie butchers
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:44:40
-0400
From: "Don Binkowski" <donb@ioa.com>
To: <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
Dear Miroslaw,
Perhaps, this will give you some facts and figures to enhance your deep feelings toward Jaruzelski et al. Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <PONIECKA@aol.com>
To: <donb@ioa.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 1:26 PM
Subject: A book about those nice Commie butchers
> Dear Don,
>
> Wasn't there supposed to be a museum/memorial
built in Washington, DC in
> memory of those millions killed by Communism?
Whatever happened to those
> plans? I remember reading about it in Reader's
Digest several years ago.
>
> Best on a Sunday,
> Maryann
> ----------------------------------------------
> >
FROM BEN MACINTYRE IN PARIS
> >A BOOK by a team of French historians,
described as the
> >first global accounting of the victims of
communism, has
> >estimated that in this century Communist dictators,
regimes
> >and movements have been responsible
for the deaths of
> >up to 100 million people.
>
> > The 850-page Black Book of Communism - Crimes,
Terror
> >and Repression, by 11 senior
French researchers and
> >published to coincide with
yesterday's 80th anniversary
> >of the Bolshevik Revolution, has triggered
a fresh ideologi-
> >cal battle.
>
> >The writers have come up with a
final estimate that
> >communism claimed about 65 million lives
in China, 20
> >million in the Soviet Union, two million in
Cambodia, two
> >million in North Korea, 1.7 Million
in Africa, one million
> >in Vietnam, one million in Eastern
Europe and 150,000 in
> >South America.
>
> >In a polemical introduction, Stephane Courtois,
the chief
> >editor and co-ordinator of the project,
argued that mass
> >murder and terror have been central characteristics
of com-
> >munism. "The facts are stubborn," he writes.
"They show that
> >the Communist regimes committed crimes against
about 100 million
> >people, compared to about 25 million for the
Nazis."
>
> > Some of M Courtois's fellow authors
however, have taken
> >issue both with his highly
charged conclusions and with
> >his figures. Jean-Louis Margolin and Nicolas
Werth, both
> >historians, accused him of being
determined to reach the
> >symbolic figure of 100 million, and sharply
disagreed with
> >his contention that class-based purges
under communism
> >can be equated wlth racially motivated
genocide on the
> >Nazi model. They claimed that M Courtois deliberately
mis-
> >used their research to bolster his thesis.
>
> > The debate has more than purely academic
significance
> >in France, where Communist Party politicians
were admit-
> >ted to the Cabinet this year for the first
time since 1981.
> > L'Humanite, the Communist newspaper,
said: "This is
> >not a history of communism, but a perspective
on the crimes
> >and forms of repression committed in its name."
>
> >The Times [London] 11.10.97
10. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Fw: A
book about those nice Commie butchers
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:20:50 +0800
From:
Miroslaw Krupinski <miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au>
Organization: consulting engineer
To: Don Binkowski <donb@ioa.com>
References: 1
Don Binkowski wrote:
> Dear Miroslaw,
>
> Perhaps, this will give you some facts and
figures to enhance your deep
> feelings toward Jaruzelski et al. Don
Dear Don,
Thank you for all three letters received. I know the info you attached in this letter and I know many books and facts about the communism. But - so is more important I had been living in communist PRL 43 years, so I could collect my own experience and understanding of the system and people involved.
As for your previous 2 letters - I supplied you in our published discussion with my opinions and facts recorded by others (as the "Times" from 1989). You can ignore those facts if you wish - it is your democratic right. I will not repeat my arguments again and again against the general slogans, it is futile.
I honestly believe, that your declaration "all of us Americans have a different view" is a pompous and unjustified one - you are representing here your own opinion. There are probably a few other people, similarly misled by propaganda of the communists and their Magdalenka helpers, but it is far from "all Americans", Don.
I will add your today's letters and my reply to the "feedback" file to establish your position as representative of "all Americans", because it is a good conclusion of our discussion :).
My best regards, Don.
Over and off
Miroslaw
--
Miroslaw M. Krupinski
http://worf.albanyis.com.au/~matuzal/index.htm
http://www.fullcomp.com.au/~miroslaw/KRAJ_UTRACONY.htm
11. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: How We Lost Poland
Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:54:23 PDT
From: "Darius Zamojski" <darius101@hotmail.com>
To: miroslaw@fullcomp.com.au
Panie Miroslawie,
w powyzszym artykule (patrz
"subject") Radka Sikorskiego (former Deputy
Minister of Defence of Poland) w podtytule The Turn Of The Round Table
znajdzie Pan to co, mam
nadzieje, oswieci umysl Dona.
Artykul jest na dejanews pod haslem 'wachowski polish'i po przeczytaniu prosze podzielic sie swoja opinia. Czytalem Pana i Dona ostatnie slowa w KU i moze ten artykul odsloni nowe fakty dla Pana Dona i ujawni sekrety komunistow i kolaboracje ich bylych przyjaciol.
Moim zdaniem problem z okraglymi stolami jest taki, ze nie widac gdzie sie zagina jedna linia a zaczyna druga. Czyli przy jedym stole, jakby na wigilii, podzielili sie oplatkiem czerwoni towarzysze z ich sojusznikami.
Przy okraglym stole nikt nie siedzial na rogach i wszyscy wiedzieli, ze zniwo z obrad bedzie sprzedane za dolary, ktorych nie zobaczy tzw. lud pracujacy.
Dariusz Zamojski
My comments to the publication "How we lost Poland" (URL below) written by Radek Sikorski, former DeputyDeputy of Defence of Poland, in 1996:
The analysis of the situation in Poland, written by Author after presidential election 1996 is excellent. It is understandable, considering his position then and resulting from it insight into affairs of post-Magdalenka Poland.
I did not know this article till today, but I had my own observations, plus advantage of the knowledge of the new facts (as the true role of Jaruzelski and communists in the Polish Russian relations in 1981). It made my own opinions even more radical, because now, in 1999, I know that in Magdalenka so called opposition had sold Polish nation not only to bankrupted then communists but to the traitor who bought there his future presidency.
Living 20 000 km from Poland I can not pretend to be as well informed about Polish reality as the Author. However - I believe that my opinion expressed in previously published part of the discussion is not in contradiction to the facts described and analyzed by Radek Sikorski. I believe as well, that both, corresponding, points of view, his - from inside of Poland and mine - from the opposite point of the Earth in Australia can be of some use for often misled by the propaganda Readers. The conclusion is left to Them.
Miroslaw Krupinski
PART A
PART B
Quoting the
"Time" - June 16, 1989
Quoting the
"Time" - August 14, 1989
How We Lost Poland - written in 1996 by Radek
Sikorski