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Author Topic:   The F-FFL+ vs. the G-DD+
What's_in_a_name
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for What's_in_a_name     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In OP the Feds now have plasma F's on frigates so I decided to compare the frigates from the Feds and the Gorn. They are both similar in BPV; 73 BPV for the F-FFL+ and 74 for the G-DD+. For one less BPV point the Fed frigate gets; better shields (108 v. 76 total), better maneuverability (class 2 v. class 3), better weapons (2 PlaF, 1 DroG, 3 pha1, 2 Pha3, and 1 AMD v. 1 PlaG and 3 pha1), less power but also lower move cost which negates the better power of the G-DD+ at speed 18. The G-DD+ does get two more shuttles so it isn't deficient in every area. Am I missing something or are shuttles really that good? Maybe the Gorn could just buy their frigates from the Federation from now on.

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hobbesmaster
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hobbesmaster   Click Here to Email hobbesmaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Several things you didnt mention:
1) Forward phaser on the G-DD+ is FX arc
2) PlaG is FP (FH) on tthe G-DD+

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Cmdr. Vidmar
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cmdr. Vidmar   Click Here to Email Cmdr. Vidmar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, arcs and other miscellaneous things can change the BPV a lot. What you really need to do is do a side by side comparison of every component on the ships.

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"Damn the Hellbores load the Suicide Fusions!" -Said by Me

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What's_in_a_name
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for What's_in_a_name     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not sure what other components really matter but here goes; crews are equal at 19, the Fed has more marines with 6, the Gorn have 5, both have two transporters, the Fed gets two defensive tractors, the Gorn one, the Fed gets six center hull points, the Gorn two forward and six aft hull points.

As for the phaser '1' arcs, the Gorn do get a better arc on one phaser '1' with a FX (240 degrees) than the Fed with a FA arc (180 degrees), better but hardly a overwhelming improvement.

The gift of plasmas to the Feds on even more ships and cheaper than the dedicated plasma users is just another reason to bypass the Gorn which is exactly the opposite thing that should be happening.

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Cmdr. Vidmar
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cmdr. Vidmar   Click Here to Email Cmdr. Vidmar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you mind if I take your comparison and clean it up? (Put it in a more readable format)

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"Damn the Hellbores load the Suicide Fusions!" -Said by Me

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chrono
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chrono   Click Here to Email chrono     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to agree with "What's_in_a_name" on this. The Feds should have to pay extra, 1-3 bpv more, for 'non-Fed.' equipment. It make great sense to due so.

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What's_in_a_name
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for What's_in_a_name     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to make the comparison cleaner, easier, try to show something else, or whatever go ahead.

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Cmdr. Vidmar
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cmdr. Vidmar   Click Here to Email Cmdr. Vidmar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some of this information is a no brainer, but I�m ripping everything pretty much from the spec file, so bare with me. Also, anything with a (?) behind it means I haven't a clue what that value does.

Hull Type:
FFL+: Frigate
DD+ : Frigate

Class Type:
FFL+: Frigate
DD+ : Destroyer

BPV:
FFL+: 73
DD+ : 74

Year First Available:
FFL+: 12 (999 Last Year Available)
DD+ : 7 (15 Last Year Abliable)

Size Class:
FFL+: 4
DD+ : 4

Turn Mode:
FFL+: B
DD+ : C

Move Cost:
FFL+: .33
DD+ : .5

HET +2 & Nimble:
FFL+: 1
DD+ : 1

HET Breakdown:
FFL+: 5
DD+ : 4

Regular Crew
FFL+: 16
DD+ : 16

Boarding Parties Base:
FFL+: 6 (12 Max)
DD+ : 5 (10 Max)

Total Crew:
FFL+: 19 ( 4 Min Crew)
DD+ : 19 ( 4 Min Crew)

Shields:
FFL+: 18,18,18,18 (108 total)
DD+ : 18,14,10,10 (76 total)

Weapons:
FFL+: 2 PlaF (FH), 1 ADD6, 1 DroG, 1 Ph1 (FH), 1 Ph1 (RS), 1 Ph1 (LS), 1 Ph3 (RS), 1 Ph3 (LS)
DD+ : 1 PlaG (FH), 1 Ph1 (FX), 1 Ph1 (RS), 1 Ph1 (LS)

Probes:
FFL+: 1
DD+ : 1

T Bombs
FFL+: 2 (4 Max)
DD+ : 2 (6 Max)

Shuttle Size
FFL+: 2
DD+ : 4

Shuttles:
FFL+: 1 ( 2 Max)
DD+ : 3 ( 4 Max)

Hull:
FFL+: 6 Center
DD+ : 2 Forward, 6 Aft

Warp/Impusle/APR/Battery:
FFL+: 6 (R/L), 3, 1, 2
DD+ : 8 (R/L), 2, 1, 2

Bridge, Lab, Transporter, Tractors:
FFL+: 4, 2, 2, 2
DD+ : 2, 2, 2, 1

Sensors/Scanners/Explosion Strength/Acceleration:
FFL+: 5, 5, 9, 10
DD+ : 5, 5, 10, 10

Damage Control/Extra Damage/Ship Cost(?):
FFL+: 4, 4, 5
DD+ : 4, 4, 5

Balance(?)
FFL+: 0
DD+ : 7


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"Damn the Hellbores load the Suicide Fusions!" -Said by Me

[This message has been edited by Cmdr. Vidmar (edited 08-19-2001).]

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Marcus Smythe
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marcus Smythe   Click Here to Email Marcus Smythe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Balance is also what we refer to as the 'explictive delted ya' factor. Or.. ."We think this ship should cost more... so... Shazam... it costs more."

I think im going to go figure out what ships got 'Balanced'

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Marcus Smythe
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marcus Smythe   Click Here to Email Marcus Smythe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Having looked through the list, im scratching my head... PERHAPS the balance list is to take ships back to SFB BPVs (or other predetermined ones) as the BPV calculation in the shiplist seems to not take into account (among other things) the actual Arc of the weapon... etc.

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Cmdr. Vidmar
Ensign
posted 08-19-2001 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cmdr. Vidmar   Click Here to Email Cmdr. Vidmar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Marcus Smythe:
Balance is also what we refer to as the 'explictive delted ya' factor. Or.. ."We think this ship should cost more... so... Shazam... it costs more."

I think im going to go figure out what ships got 'Balanced'


Well, it looks to me it's the FFL+ that needs a balance factor adjustment, not the DD+. I've got to agree with What's it looks like the DD+ is outclassed.

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"Damn the Hellbores load the Suicide Fusions!" -Said by Me

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SPQR Kremen
Ensign
posted 08-20-2001 04:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPQR Kremen   Click Here to Email SPQR Kremen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The question come down to, if you had a choice, which ship would you run?

Its a no-brainer.

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