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Author Topic:   My Exit From Andromeda
Robert Wolfe
Show Developer
posted November 23, 2001 19:28     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Wolfe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
As reported in CULT TIMES:

There's just one month to go until filming on Andromeda's second season wraps, but it's been one heck of a ride this year. The phrase 'Change is in the air' springs to mind as some seriously significant differences have swept into being. First off, co-creator and executive producer Robert Hewitt Wolfe departed for pastures new, leaving the way clear for a whole new approach. one which executive producer and star Kevin Sorbo welcomed with open arms, "Robert is a genius, but was developing stories that were too complicated and too clever for the rest of us to understand. What we now have is a team of very talented people who write standalone stories that can, on occasion, blend together to form a story arc. That simple 'turn-up-tune-in' attitude was what was missing. Now we have that, I really feel we're on track towards making Andromeda an outstanding show."


Thank God that's over.

I mean, here I've been, being a good boy, keeping my big mouth shut under the advice of my agent and my lawyer (who are very nice people and very smart and who very rarely tell me what to do), and now Kevin's let the cat (or in this case, the Thanksgiving turkey) out of the bag. Finally. So now I can say it:

I am no longer the head writer and executive producer of Andromeda.

Ah. That's better. Someone please change my Slipstream gold letters to "Show Developer" or "Former Head Writer" or something. Maybe “Head Waiter”

Okay, so, you're probably wondering, what the hell happened?

Short Answer: Television happened.

Long Answer: As you can tell from Kevin's "too clever" and "too complicated" comments, he, Tribune, and Fireworks wanted to go in another direction with the show. A less clever, less complicated one, no doubt. Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters.

Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory.

And finally, they wanted to rework the visual signature of several of the characters, most especially Trance and Rommie, but also Dylan (less uniforms, more civvies).

Anyway, I was trying very hard to work with them and incorporate their changes into the show in a way that would make them happy but not alienate our core audience. After all, it's not like we haven't compromised before, and some of the changes requested by Tribune, Fireworks, and/or Kevin have been good ones. The new production designer, the new sets, and the new costume designer have all worked great. And the way I saw it, my job was to execute their instruction, though never blindly and never without a thorough discussion of the implications of such changes. Unfortunately, they apparently felt that it was better to just let me go and implement their new vision without me.

Like I said, that's television. Fireworks pays the lion's share of the budget, Tribune provides the US stations and has their creative control mandated into all their contracts, and Kevin is the star. The show probably wouldn't exist without him.

So I'm gone. Truth be told, I've been gone since the end of September, while we were working on episode twelve, Ouroboros. Ironically, it's the episode in which I'd implemented several of the changes Tribune et al wanted, and in which they'd implemented others over my objections. So there's a pretty clear delineation. Pre-Ouroboros is me; post-Ouroboros is Kevin, Tribune, and Fireworks.

I leave behind (left behind? This is more confusing than a time travel episode) a very talented writing staff, now being run by Matt and Joe. I also leave behind a very talented cast and crew up in Vancouver, under the capable leadership of Allan Eastman. My hope is that you'll take a look at the remaining episodes (which won't even air until February) with an open mind. If you like what you see, keep watching, tell your friends, and make the show an even bigger hit than it already is. If you don't, change the channel.

And as always, I encourage you to express your opinions about the episodes here and in letters and emails to Tribune, Fireworks and Kevin.

Anyway I definitely hope you'll tune in for the rest of the episodes I supervised. Home Fires, Into the Labyrinth, The Prince, Bunker Hill, and Ouroboros are good episodes and I'm quite proud of them.

Finally, it was my intention to give Christian an interview about all this after production wrapped in late December, since I wanted Slipstream to get the scoop. I'm sorry it didn't work out that way. But instead, I'll give the exclusive interview to the Slipstreamers. You ask, I'll answer, as best I can. Fire away.

Robert

Appreciate
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 19:34     Click Here to See the Profile for Appreciate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OHHHHHHH, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
#@$$%!!

Robert, I'm new. You left before I even got here. It's NOT FAIR!!!

It's the story telling, interesting character development, complex backstory, etc. that have drawn me. Me and about a thousand others.

Crud, and many other words I can't use here.

I don't want you to have gone (challenging to discuss this in the right verb tense).

I AM SO NOT THANKFUL.

Tell us where you're off to now, please. Where can we find your complicated stories next?

And best to you!
Kathy

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 19:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, I can't even express to you how upsetting this is. I know you can't give too many gory details and the last thing I'd ask is for you to slam anyone.

But I'd like to ask about the direction the show is going in "post" the episodes you supervised. One of the things I've liked best about this season is continuity and attention to the big story. Given Kevin's comments about wanting more stand alones and less arc, is this something we can expect later this season? Or are the changes going to be more cosmetic (like Rommie's hair, Trance's costume). I'm not asking for detailed spoilers, just a general sense of where the show is going.

Also, does this mean that Ashley and Zack are next?

Robert, whatever the reason for your departure, it is a huge loss for the show, and I confess that my faith is greatly shaken.

Robert Wolfe
Show Developer
posted November 23, 2001 19:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Wolfe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Appreciate:

Tell us where you're off to now, please. Where can we find your complicated stories next?


Right now, I'm in the running for a couple of feature films, and SciFi Channel is considering one of my series proposals. There are several other things in the works, but I probably won't have anything solid until early next year.

I'll certainly let everyone here know when I line something up.

Robert

Rovinski47
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 19:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Rovinski47   Click Here to Email Rovinski47     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh hell....

... where does this leave us?

Goodbye Robert. You will be missed.

------------------
Loving Husband to Senar, and Raeven
Marching to a different Quast.
"Dålig bortsett från underhållande."
What would Javert do?

"Once a thief forever a thief/What you want you always steal!/You would tradre your life for mine?/Yes Valjean you want a deal!/Shoot me now for all I care!/If you let me go, beware!/You'll still answer to Javert!"-- Javert, Les Miserables

dec55
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 19:39     Click Here to See the Profile for dec55     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What???!!!! I was just getting into the show's direction!!!! AHHHRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!

I am just a fan.....I have enjoyed Andromeda totally!!!! I thank you personally for a great show.....Please if there is ever a movie of this show be a part of it!!!!!!

THANK YOU, Robert Wolfe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------


[This message has been edited by dec55 (edited November 23, 2001).]

Robert Wolfe
Show Developer
posted November 23, 2001 19:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Wolfe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dylanite:
I'd like to ask about the direction the show is going in "post" the episodes you supervised. One of the things I've liked best about this season is continuity and attention to the big story. Given Kevin's comments about wanting more stand alones and less arc, is this something we can expect later this season?

Kevin is the executive producer and certainly if he says that's what's going to happen, that's what's going to happen. From what I understand, continuity has been de-emphasized since my exit, and will be further de-emphasized next season, when, theoretically, almost all the episodes will be stand-alones.

Sorry I can't be more informative, but I'm pretty much out of the loop since my exit.

Oh, Zack and Ashley are still on board at least until the end of the season, when everyone's contracts are up. I'm not sure yet who Tribune et al want back for season three and who wants to be back. These things are usually worked out in December and January.

Robert

Techfreak Ziana
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 19:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Techfreak Ziana   Click Here to Email Techfreak Ziana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

{{{{{{{Robert}}}}}}}

Catering to the general lower level might get more ratings points, but Andromeda should frellin' be more than that!

Those who actually *appreciate* depth will greatly miss your contributions to the show, and I very much hope things don't degenerate in your absence.

And... "Dylan-centric"!? There's more than one character on this show! And they work *together*!

------------------
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Appreciate
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 19:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Appreciate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,

Check out chat. Lots of bad words there - a huge testament to how much you are valued by the thinking fans of Andromeda.

I also thank you for the coolest vision EVER.

Kathy

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 19:47     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is very very bad news. I've been a Kevin Sorbo fan for a lot of years. He's in danger of alienating me. And something tells me I'm no where near alone in this.

I wonder if he's familiar with the concept "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

Dammit.

Robert, you'll be missed. I hope your next endeavor is not weighted down by short sighted individuals who don't give their audience credit for WANTING an intelligent, complicated story with lots of tension between the characters.

Sorry for being bitter. You're more of a gentleman than I am.

Lil

Rovinski47
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 19:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Rovinski47   Click Here to Email Rovinski47     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
RW... wow.

You were fired? How incredibly... short-sighted on their part. .

We'd love to talk this over in real time... feel free to pop in at http://www.slipstreamweb.com/chat/

You've always been welcome there, and always will be.

I... it sounds like Sorbo, et. all, want to dumb the show down. If that's the case... then they have a lot to answer for.

Nightshade71
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 19:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Nightshade71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wolfe:
Thank God that's over.


I am no longer the head writer and executive producer of Andromeda.

As you can tell from Kevin's "too clever" and "too complicated" comments, he, Tribune, and Fireworks wanted to go in another direction with the show. A less clever, less complicated one, no doubt. Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters.

Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory.

And finally, they wanted to rework the visual signature of several of the characters, most especially Trance and Rommie, but also Dylan (less uniforms, more civvies).

Anyway, I was trying very hard to work with them and incorporate their changes into the show in a way that would make them happy but not alienate our core audience. Robert


FRELL! I like my science fiction intelligent. I watch this show because I can't always figure out what is going to happen next. I like the concept of a military man trying to work with civilians. It comes off as "real". I will give "them" a chance but I am skeptical. I don't watch the show for Dylan. For all I am concerned he's an extra or a device used to give the show continuity. The so-called "lesser" characters are where the action and real plot development is. (Ranting over for now.)

Mr. Wolfe, do you have any other projects in the works?


A dismayed Nightshade of Fenris Pride
Proud Bekaneer and now vehement Anti-Dylanite

Lady Midnight
Makra
posted November 23, 2001 19:49     Click Here to See the Profile for Lady Midnight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But we LIKE 'complicated stories'

{{{{{{{{{{{{RHW}}}}}}}}}}} you will be missed very much. I have to say I am NOT happy about this!

Cardie
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 19:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Cardie   Click Here to Email Cardie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Geez, Robert, this is awful!!! I came to Andromeda because of you and I have a feeling I'll not be far behind you in leaving, although I'll give the rest of the season a fair chance. I was worried ever since I read an interview with Kevin that said the stories were too complicated. And now we know why everyone was so tense in September.

All my best wishes on your future projects. I'll be watching for them.

So, can you tell us now who the mole was that was posting the "changing writers is good" things?

Cardie

HLenore
Ruby Than
posted November 23, 2001 19:52     Click Here to See the Profile for HLenore   Click Here to Email HLenore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Robert, we will miss you!!! Rov and I have talked about Sorbo wanting to make it more action-like, and we were both worried about that. Looks like they won...I'm sorry ~~~~~~~~~Robert~~~~~~~~~~~>

(added in after I talked with Rov about this)
To the "TV People": We liked the tail, we like Robert, and we like complicated and clever.

------------------
Dedicated Trancer
"We get so much in the habit of wearing disguises before others that we finally appear disguised before ourselves" -Duke Francois de La Rouchefoucald (1613-1680)

God Bless

[This message has been edited by HLenore (edited November 23, 2001).]

Appreciate
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 19:54     Click Here to See the Profile for Appreciate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, one more thing:

PROMISE you will let us know what you end up doing next. We fan types take this loyalty thing seriously (as you know better than I, I am sure). The quality of the stories/vision on Andromeda makes me very interested in following along where you go next.

Best of good luck to you,
Kathy

ArmourMe
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 19:55     Click Here to See the Profile for ArmourMe   Click Here to Email ArmourMe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, I'm so so so sorry

Your complicated plots, your complex character development, your multi-season Arcs, your willingness to create a character who would grow and evolve....these are what drew me.

And if these things go away, I'll be a 'Fan of TOA' Which is just terribly sad, since Andromeda matters so much to me.....to all of us.

What can I say, to you I mean? Andromeda is the best sci fi TV I've ever seen....and it was your brainchild, really. TPTB have cut off their nose......

I'm way pissed, and spouting four lettered words in all caps in chat. Probably will be for some time.... But I want YOU to know just how much you are appreciated.

For the brilliance of Andromeda's concepts

As well as for all your participation and honesty here. I'll never forget that

May I hug you?
AM huuuuuuuuuuuuugs Robert

Please, continue to talk to us here, at least for a while.....

------------------
ArmourMe: KEEP CREATIVE CONTROL WITH THE CREATIVE TEAM!!!!!!
Showerer of the DEEP DARK HAZELNUT FUDGE
ZackAshist Keeper of the Fiendish Glee
Elthiest Keeper of the Most Marvelous Beka Characterization
Wolfe Packe Keeper of The Cliffhanger from Hell
LANCER Keeper of the Unity of the Commonwealth
& mattjoeist Keeper of The Hope That Tyr is a FATHER

Robert Wolfe
Show Developer
posted November 23, 2001 19:57     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Wolfe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cardie:

So, can you tell us now who the mole was that was posting the "changing writers is good" things?


My hope is that the mole will be man enough to step forward, identify himself, and field your questions and responses. I'm not going to "out" him though... I've never been a big fan of that. He should come out of the closet on his own.

Maigrey
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 19:58     Click Here to See the Profile for Maigrey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am physically sick over this. You are the best damn writer they could have dreamt of having for the show. YOU created this universe and what do you get for it?

We all knew you had at least a 7 year plan for Andromeda, I hope in some small way Matt and Joe will be able to carry on YOUR legacy.

I'm scared that we're seeing an EFC turn to Andromeda and I'm not sure I like this. I... think I'll go cry now...

Maigrey, Completely In Shock

Best wishes on your future endeavours Robert, I'll be watching for anything of yours that shows up. You're a Genius, and that talent shouldn't be wasted.

strae
Castalian
posted November 23, 2001 19:59     Click Here to See the Profile for strae   Click Here to Email strae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wolfe:

Long Answer: As you can tell from Kevin's "too clever" and "too complicated" comments, he, Tribune, and Fireworks wanted to go in another direction with the show. A less clever, less complicated one, no doubt. Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters.

Robert



Sounds like Voyager

We'll miss u Robert

As for the future

Ozob the Nwolk
Amber Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:00     Click Here to See the Profile for Ozob the Nwolk   Click Here to Email Ozob the Nwolk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh nononononoonononononononononononononono

I wish it weren't so.

Even though the title says "Gene Rodenberry's" we all have always known tht this was your show Robert.

You gave us such a compelling and complete universe where complex 3-dimensional characters could live and thrive and not exist only in one-hour segments.

I can only hope that Andromeda doesn't go the way of Earth Final Conflict
Andromeda just won't be the same.

Gene Rodenberry's ANDROMEDA --Under new managment

I need a hug.

[This message has been edited by Ozob the Nwolk (edited November 23, 2001).]

Duster
Sapphire Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:02     Click Here to See the Profile for Duster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,

I'm sorry to see you leave. Having been through something similar in a different field some years back, I know how disappointing and frustrating it can be. I've very much enjoyed the change in direction you've taken with Andromeda adn will probably not enjoy it as much with simple action stories instead.

I think what we euphemistically call Hollywood (though in this case it includes Canada) consistenly underestimates the intelligence and attention span of viewers overall. Many sci fi shows aim for the lowest levels, appealing to hormones and exciting adrenal glands more than the imagination. A few have chosen to be intelligent, well thought out dramas instead, where action is incidental rather than the raison d' etre. TNG, Stargate and Babylon 5 are examples of the latter. Examples of the former are soon forgotten, especially as they are outdone by series that follow and are even more exciting.

Thank you for your efforts to steer Andromeda into becoming one of the latter. Regretably, it seems destined to be one of the former. You will be missed, though not forgotten.

Please keep us informed of current and future projects as they develop to fruition.

Robert Wolfe
Show Developer
posted November 23, 2001 20:10     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Wolfe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rovinski47:
feel free to pop in at http://www.slipstreamweb.com/chat/


Hey, Rov.

Sorry, I'm pretty much chat-illiterate. I just tried to register on QuickChat or whatever, and the screen froze on me. Sigh. Some people were just not destined for chat. I evolved in the slower, less chaotic universe of newsgroups and double disk 5.5" floppy disks. Your new, speedy, high tech ways confuse and frighten me.

Robert

PS But just cause it's too clever and too complicated for me, doesn't make it a bad thing.

[This message has been edited by Robert Wolfe (edited November 23, 2001).]

maryavatar
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:12     Click Here to See the Profile for maryavatar   Click Here to Email maryavatar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh God, it's all falling apart now isn't it? Andromeda is going to turn into one of those awful sci-fi shows full of shiny costumes, explosions and virtually no plot.

Don't they realise that the hard-core fans of science fiction are the ones that are interested in the science? We aren't there for the big bombs, you can see those on Saturday morning cartoons. We want plausable stories and visions of the future, not Rambo in a can.

This sucks.

------------------
If you go down the slipstream today, you're in for a big surprise.
If you go down the slipstream today, you'd better go in disguise.
For every 'gog that ever there was has gathered there together because:
Today's the day the Universe gets it's ass kicked.

Andromeda Uncovered http://www.geocities.com/maryavatar/index.html

[This message has been edited by maryavatar (edited November 23, 2001).]

AntonyF
Amber Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:13     Click Here to See the Profile for AntonyF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good luck with wherever your career takes you, Robert. I've admired your work since the DS9 days.

I won't lie, I haven't always liked Andromeda. It took me a while to get into it, but now I am into it I tune in every week.

I'm sorry to see politics get in the way again... another E:FC in the making, if you ask me, now that you have to go. We only have to use that as a display of what meddling can do. I thought Andromeda was going to survive them, but sadly not.

You've created a show that's been one of the hits of the past couple of years. So many shows come and go, but Andromeda is strong. You created a strong baby, but now it's grown up and has gone off with a bad crowd. Hopefully it will see its way through.

I eagerly await your next project.

------------------
AntonyF
http://www.B5LR.com

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 20:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I'll start an Anti-Dylanite faction.

Rovinski47
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 20:16     Click Here to See the Profile for Rovinski47   Click Here to Email Rovinski47     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wolfe:
Hey, Rov.

Sorry, I'm pretty much chat-illiterate. I just tried to register on QuickChat or whatever, and the screen froze on me. Sigh. Some people were just not destined for chat. I evolved in the slower, less chaotic universe of newsgroups and double disk 5.5" floppy disks. Your new, speedy, high tech ways confuse and frighten me.

Robert

[This message has been edited by Robert Wolfe (edited November 23, 2001).]


Dang. We'd love to have you. Please, try downloading http://www.mirc.co.uk if you have a PC.... or from http://www.ircle.com/download.shtml if you have a Mac.

We do love you Robert. We'd love to have you with us. .

But... if you can't get it to work, or want to be alone, or whatever... that's cool too. We still love you.

Good luck sir.

Appreciate
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Appreciate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert - try chat again. I'd been up there for a while today (my first day was yesterday, and I'm an older dog than you) but just got kicked out myself.

k

Voyager989
Amber Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:21     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager989   Click Here to Email Voyager989     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Voyager989...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

WHY GOD?!?! WHY?!?

This... is just wrong.

quote:
"Robert is a genius, but was developing stories that were too complicated and too clever for the rest of us to understand. What we now have is a team of very talented people who write standalone stories that can, on occasion, blend together to form a story arc. That simple 'turn-up-tune-in' attitude was what was missing. Now we have that, I really feel we're on track towards making Andromeda an outstanding show."

KEVIN! YOU BLOODY IDIOT! THAT'S WHY I WATCH THE DAMN SHOW!

Pardon me, but I need to play some extremely violent video games right now. When I'm calmer, I'll just settle for mad ranting.

------------------
Offical Roman,
Damage Control Officer, Andromeda Ascendant
Roman Imperial Architect and Keeper of the M4 Sherman of Smite.

[This message has been edited by Voyager989 (edited November 23, 2001).]

Tio
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:28     Click Here to See the Profile for Tio   Click Here to Email Tio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(Small little whisper from the back of the thread.) Goodbye Robert Wolfe, I liked Andromeda for what it was and am worried about what it will become. And your episodes were never to complicated for me.
Goodbye, we'll all miss you.

Arria
Ruby Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:29     Click Here to See the Profile for Arria   Click Here to Email Arria     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gosh, I just don't know what to say.

Robert, I am truly sorry that you are gone and I wish you all the best in your future endeavours. Please do keep in touch with us and let us know what you are doing.

As for the direction of the show, that is not quite as shocking to me... but majorly disappointing. When the second season started, I asked my best friend to give an unbiased opinion on the new 'opening' (she's a great friend even if she isn't a fan ). Her reply was: sounds like they're trying to make it into the "Dylan Show". Looks like she was right.

I guess we'll have to wait and see... but I don't think I'll be seeing what I was looking forward to or expecting. I've always enjoyed that fact that Andromeda had the continuity, the 'story arcs' and made me think.

I can only say if intellegent sci-fi was what you were trying to create, Robert, you succeeded.

Best wishes,
Arria

------------------
Keeper of the ZackAsh Booms,
Ka-booms & Assorted Explosions


Lexa Doig On-Line

Mandella
Nightsider
posted November 23, 2001 20:32     Click Here to See the Profile for Mandella   Click Here to Email Mandella     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is Götterdammerung.

*Deep sigh*

Robert, a heartfelt thank you for all the enjoyment. I have really grown to appreciate DROM but I sense it will soon all end.

I am truly sorry you got treated this shabbily, all the best of luck in your future projects!

Here's hoping we'll see another great genre show run by Robert Hewitt Wolfe soon!

------------------
Reverant to the bitter end!

"The Way. When you absolutely, positively got to save every soul in the galaxy. Accept no substitutes."

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." - The late, the great, Douglas Adams

Abacus
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:32     Click Here to See the Profile for Abacus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, this is a bad thing.

In one foul swoop, they have managed to announce that they are removing the major things that made Andromeda different from a lot of other series, and kick out the one person who could've made the changes work. If they kick out the rest of the current writers, too, I probably will simply stop watching.

I don't want Dylan centric. I think the character is good, but we don't need too much of him, or else it's going to turn into the Dylan show. I like the other characters, many of them more than Dylan.

Anyone get the idea those 'Hercules in space' cracks some people made are beginning to come true- Simple, episodic, centred around Sorbo's character to the exclusion of all others, action centred... Sounds like Hercules, I have to say.

Robert, could you keep us aprised of what you are up to, and maybe give us an outline of this new series you proposed, when you are able?

Anyhow, you've given us a great ride so far, and you'll be missed.

[This message has been edited by Abacus (edited November 23, 2001).]

Spring Thunder Rolling
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:32     Click Here to See the Profile for Spring Thunder Rolling   Click Here to Email Spring Thunder Rolling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wolfe:
Anyway I definitely hope you'll tune in for the rest of the episodes I supervised. Home Fires, Into the Labyrinth, The Prince, Bunker Hill, and Ouroboros are good episodes and I'm quite proud of them.

Will do. After that, I'm done. Will not watch another ep.

Cling-On
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 20:37     Click Here to See the Profile for Cling-On   Click Here to Email Cling-On     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I'm surely sorry. What a horrible blow.

However, I cannot say I'm surprised that things in Andromeda World have been turned upside down. From the time I read the below article, I have felt as though something not good was going on.

------------------------

John Dobbin schrieb:

Hey all,

Majel Roddenberry told SCI FI Wire that she's "pulled back" from her executive producer duties on Earth: Final Conflict and Andromeda, both of which are based loosely on ideas of her late husband, Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry. In particular, she said in an interview that the concept behind Earth--which begins its fifth season in October--has changed so much that it doesn't have much in common with her husband's vision.

"We no longer have Americans on the show," Roddenberry said. "That makes it, to me, a different show. The whole concept has changed so tremendously that even though [earlier seasons] weren't very much of Gene's concept, at least we had the pretext of doing it [per Gene's writings]. Now, I guess, they've just forgotten the whole thing. It's an entirely different concept. There are so many people willing to just go ahead and pay to use the [Roddenberry] name. That's why I always insisted on seeing everything." Roddenberry added that she likely won't play Dr. Belman again in the show, in part because she's not eager to travel to the show's production site in Canada. "Toronto is a long way for me to fly," she said. "Every time they want me for something, it seems it's the winter months, and I'm cold. So I've really withdrawn from that."

With regard to Andromeda, Roddenberry said, "You've got someone up there, Kevin Sorbo, who is absolutely one of the most brilliant people in this whole wide world, besides being the nicest guy. He knows story and knows where he wants this to go. And he has a right to take this in a certain direction. He's one of the producers, though he's not credited. The last time I saw Kevin, which was just a few weeks ago, I told him, 'Just keep an eye on it,' because Andromeda is great the way it is."

Roddenberry doubted that she'll be asked to play Lwaxana Troi in the upcoming Star Trek X feature film. But she said that she's eagerly awaiting UPN's Sept. 26 launch of Enterprise, the fourth series spun off from Star Trek. "I have an idea what they're up to, and I'm looking forward to seeing the show," said Roddenberry, who won't be heard as the computer voice. "It sounds interesting, but I know they've got a safeguard in there. It is different, but if it shouldn't catch on and shouldn't go the way they want it to, they've already got a ship, already got a crew, so all they'd need to do is [tell] the same kinds of stories we're used to seeing."

John
**************

A very diplomatic woman. This phrase pretty much says it all, "I told him, 'Just keep an eye on it', because Andromeda is great [u]the way it is[/u]."


Ah well. I've had some problems with the show, but I've continued to watch. I've made clear that Dylan Hunt is quickly becoming my least favorite character, and that's still true. I'll keep watching for a little while at least.

Shhh,
Whisper

------------------
Qapla',
Cling-On

Techfreak Ziana
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 20:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Techfreak Ziana   Click Here to Email Techfreak Ziana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
maryavatar wrote:
Don't they realise that the hard-core fans of science fiction are the ones that are interested in the science? We aren't there for the big bombs, you can see those on Saturday morning cartoons. We want plausable stories and visions of the future, not Rambo in a can.

Damn right.

Joannie_M
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:38     Click Here to See the Profile for Joannie_M   Click Here to Email Joannie_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NO!!! This CAN'T be happening!!

My God, you CAN'T, you just CAN'T do this to us. They can't do this to us. I've suffered through this very same process with all my favorite comics, half my favorite TV shows... I can't take it anymore. I can't stand the hype and the dumbing down effect. I can't stand the changes in a great, intelligent premise, I can't handle much more of this. Damnit, there are some people out there who happen to LIKE clever stories and interpersonal conflict. Why doesn't anyone ever NOTICE us?!?!

*SOB*... I'm... sorry... I didn't mean to say it that harshly... but I had to say it. I know the signs, I know where this is going, and it HURTS, you know...? This is a dark, dark day to science fiction television as a whole.

Sir... Robert, I just want to say you are among the most talented writers and the most incredible people I know. Not anyone would have had the guts or integrity to walk away. I'll follow your future exploits loyally, whatever they may be. Dumb as it may sound coming from just another fan... you earned something only one in ten creators earned - my trust.

Finishing now before I start crying...

------------------
Here's to the Great Debate!

**Lancer Keeper of Nifty Nods and Refs
**Contemplator of Philosophical Strangeness

curiousa2z
Sapphire Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:42     Click Here to See the Profile for curiousa2z     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh, bloody frelling great.

I concur with the majority of posters here: I am intelligent; I can cope with complicated. In fact, I like complicated.
I actually like thinking. I like science. I like character development -and, - (pausing for an angry breath) - hey, guess what?

I liked looking forward to one of the few TV shows that wasn't drek!!!

sigh...
...may I also add, Robert, that I have appreciated the work you put into making Tyr more than just a 2-dimensional thug?

~Good luck in all your future endeavours.~

[This message has been edited by curiousa2z (edited November 23, 2001).]

Shambalayogi
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Shambalayogi   Click Here to Email Shambalayogi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AT first I was going to say what twilight zone have I clicked myself into but now I'll just say; Well ........ DAMN!

Robert, thanks for your work on this show and I'm afraid I shall miss it dreadfully after Ourobouros. I'll wait with interest to see how the shows after that compare to the ones before it. I've enjoyed your complicated stories very much.

I'm very thankful that you have been here on this board to speak to the fans. For me, that has been a unique experience on a fandom board.

Whatever you do, good luck and live well while you're here.

------------------
Shambalayogi
Dylanite, Keeper of the Thigh-holster
Full Tyrant
A Harpy, Would-Be Honorary Everyone Else
Shining up my shuttle to sail the slipstream,
Om Shanti
It may not be a time of myth and legend, but definitely a time for heroes.
http://www.geocities.com/shambalayogi/andro4.html

Joannie_M
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Joannie_M   Click Here to Email Joannie_M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NO!!! This CAN'T be happening!!

My God, you CAN'T, you just CAN'T do this to us. They can't do this to us. I've suffered through this very same process with all my favorite comics, half my favorite TV shows... I can't take it anymore. I can't stand the hype and the dumbing down effect. I can't stand the changes in a great, intelligent premise, I can't handle much more of this. Damnit, there are some people out there who happen to LIKE clever stories and interpersonal conflict. Why doesn't anyone ever NOTICE us?!?!

*SOB*... I'm... sorry... I didn't mean to say it that harshly... but I had to say it. I know the signs, I know where this is going, and it HURTS, you know...? This is a dark, dark day to science fiction television as a whole.

Sir... Robert, I just want to say you are among the most talented writers and the most incredible people I know. Not anyone would have had the guts or integrity to walk away. I'll follow your future exploits loyally, whatever they may be. Dumb as it may sound coming from just another fan... you earned something only one in ten creators earned - my trust.

Finishing now before I start crying...

------------------
Here's to the Great Debate!

**Lancer Keeper of Nifty Nods and Refs
**Contemplator of Philosophical Strangeness

Kane3065
Castalian
posted November 23, 2001 20:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Kane3065   Click Here to Email Kane3065     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well looks like that is that, Sorry to see you go RHW. It isen't fair but then again who says the world is fair, on that note I don't expect to be around after the end of the season.
Now I would never wish Harm on anyone but if Andromeda Ratings tanked after ep 12 I would not be upset. The writing staff is still very good but with Sorbo in command the show will Turn into Herc in space which RHW had made it everything but.

Iolanthe
Vedran
posted November 23, 2001 20:46     Click Here to See the Profile for Iolanthe   Click Here to Email Iolanthe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Argh...this is upsetting!

Robert, I know we'll all miss your contributions to the show -- I certainly will. In fact, your involvement was one of the key things that brought me on board, because I know the quality of your work on DS9. Thanks for making Andromeda what it is -- or perhaps I should say what it was. Here's hoping the show we know and love isn't gone for good...

------------------
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I only love that which they defend."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

[This message has been edited by Iolanthe (edited November 23, 2001).]

Drew
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Drew   Click Here to Email Drew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!!

I knew this would happen. I knew it deep down in my gut. I knew that Andromeda couldn't dodge the bullet from Tribune's DUMB gun.

Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!!

Like many others here, I came to Andromeda because of Robert, and because of the complex universe he'd created. And now they're doing to Andromeda what they did to E:FC.

Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!!

So, Robert, any chance you can take Andromeda with you and move it to the Sci Fi Channel where, by looking at Farscape, it appears that they allow their shows' creators a bit more freedom? Perhaps Dylan can have a "little accident" so we don't have to bring Sorbo along.

We're never going to get a satisfying resolution to the story either, are we? Promise us that someday you'll come back and let us know how it was all SUPPOSED to turn out? Or write the Great Andromedan Novel.

Shaun
Diamond Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:49     Click Here to See the Profile for Shaun   Click Here to Email Shaun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am so sorry Robert.

I hope Kevin and Tribune realise just what a talented guy they've lost with their stupidity.

Now find someone who appreciates having a skilled show runner on board and make the show you want!! I wish you the best of luck.

I used to think highly of Sorbo, right now I wouldn't give the guy the time of day.

------------------
Shaun
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One. We die for the One."

Chaka
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 20:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Chaka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well its all been said above. But to add my penny's worth I have always preferred intelligent Sci-Fi, the fluffy stuff gets boring after I while. I was really glad when the Andromeda story arc started to develop and was looking forward to where it would lead. I hope that the new vision works for Kevin & Crew but my fear is that if they make it too light they may lose the following they already have. It seems they are willing to risk the loss of the faithful for the potential new converts. A dangerous game.

You're departure is their great loss. Good luck in all your future projects. I'll be watching.

Cling-On
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 20:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Cling-On   Click Here to Email Cling-On     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kane3065:
The writing staff is still very good but with Sorbo in command the show will Turn into Herc in space which RHW had made it everything but.

I actually vote for changing the name to "Dylan: The Legendary Journey's". May as well do it now, rather than be forced to admit it later.

Shhh,
Whisper

------------------
Qapla',
Cling-On

Undina Arcania
Vedran
posted November 23, 2001 20:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Undina Arcania   Click Here to Email Undina Arcania     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FACT hath failed... I have failed....

The corporations and short-sighted minions of evil have triumphed....

I am now angry....

Robert, we love thee!

*To Kevin, Tribune, and anyone else who made this happen*

Amanda777
Castalian
posted November 23, 2001 20:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Amanda777   Click Here to Email Amanda777     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nooooooo!! Nonononono!

You will be greatly missed!! ((((((((Robert))))))

I love the continuity story lines, and actually needing to *think* about the different aspects of each ep, and the little twists and turns that had me going . Complicated story lines are part of what made Andromeda different from the other shows on tv nowdays, at least in my mind.
Gonna keep watching, of course, but I just really hope they don't "dumb it down" too much. We finally have a show with *real* science, and, in my not-so humble opinion, *real* PLOTS. And, well, as Lil said, "if it ain't broken, don't try to 'fix' it".

And I agree with the others, please let us know what other current/future things you'll be working on as they come up. We love your work!

quote:
Techfreak Ziana:
And... "Dylan-centric"!? There's more than one character on this show! And they work *together*!

Here, here!! Dylan's a nice character and all, but he's just one of the characters, and I want to see more of the others! Less Tribune, less 'dumbing down', more Robert, Zack, Ash, Matt, Joe, and all the other great writers that make Drom what it is.

(((((((((Robert)))))))))))

Amanda

[This message has been edited by Amanda777 (edited November 23, 2001).]

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 20:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shaun, oh I'D give Kevin the time of day. The time to tell him that this is the STUPIDIST damn move he's ever made, even stupider than playin Kull. Do you think that a guy like Keith is going to stick around if the show becomes what Kevin envisions? I don't. And if Keith is gone, the show dies.

Frell this is just a huge screw up. I'd like to rip someone in half over this.

Lil

Spring Thunder Rolling
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:54     Click Here to See the Profile for Spring Thunder Rolling   Click Here to Email Spring Thunder Rolling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

But instead, I'll give the exclusive interview to the Slipstreamers. You ask, I'll answer, as best I can. Fire away.

Is that an invitation for spoilers? I mean, since they aren't going in your direction (directionless bastards) anymore, is there anything stopping you from spilling the beans on the way things were supposed to turn out?

Big-O
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 20:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Big-O     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh man! It feels like I'm going through my work's corporate restructuring again! Our creative director at work was let go recently and he had great input and experience and was a great morale booster, and it was tough seeing him go. And it's happening again with you Robert

Good luck to you and I hope things turn out better wherever you go.

o

EdBlackadder
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 20:58     Click Here to See the Profile for EdBlackadder   Click Here to Email EdBlackadder     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Words fail me when i try to say how unhappy this has made me Robert.

Good luck with your upcoming projects, stop by to talk to us if you get the time won't you?

PS. Whatever you do next, for the first time i'm going to follow a writer to a project!

------------------
Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast.-Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper I'll be back for Christmas-Normal Rimmer
The big guns never tire-Tactita Imperious
There are no Turtles anywhere-Ponder Stibbons
'I am a traveler, nothing more'-The Doctor
Grrrrrbouncy Grrrrrbouncy
Treasurer of the TyRoman Alliance

G-man
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:00     Click Here to See the Profile for G-man   Click Here to Email G-man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*Blink* *blink*

You're leaving?!?

If it's any consolation, your contributions will be missed by this fan. For me, it is the attention to detail (as evidenced by the universe you've developed), and the willingness to engage in multi-episode story arcs that help define Space Opera. You can't really tell a large story in only an hour, though I do understand about the reasoning behind each episode being able to stand on it's own.

(BIG SIGH)

Here's hoping the show doesn't go down the tubes.

I wish you the best of luck.

/s/

Gloriosus
the G-man Himself

Hey, is there any chance you might share what it was you had planned for the show?

------------------
Keeper of the DSX-Files.

"Though this be madness, there is method to it."
"Frell me dead."

Appreciate
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 21:02     Click Here to See the Profile for Appreciate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Best idea yet is for Robert to write the Great Andromeda novel so the faithful can learn the intended arc.

Please? Please? Please?

Drew
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:04     Click Here to See the Profile for Drew   Click Here to Email Drew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dylanite:
Do you think that a guy like Keith is going to stick around if the show becomes what Kevin envisions?

If I remember some of the stuff I read before the show even aired, Keith's inclusion in the cast was mandated by Tribune from day one. (Something I took as a bad sign right from the start, though Keith turned out to be an excellent addition to the cast.)

Robert, how much of Andromeda is "owned" by you? Would it still be possible, someday, for you to complete the story with or without Tribune's consent?

Abacus
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:04     Click Here to See the Profile for Abacus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to agree with Lil. I don't think any of the Drom cast is going to stay around if they feel the show is dead-ending, and Herc in Space is deadending. It'll also cost them most of their decent guest stars. I mean, can you imagine, say William B Davies showing up on Herc? Or James Marsters? Lets be honest, Sorbo had a lot of weight in Herc's production, and none of them would've touched it with a bargepole. All we can hope is that Sorbo has learnt from his mistakes (Herc, Kull, etc)

ArmourMe
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 21:05     Click Here to See the Profile for ArmourMe   Click Here to Email ArmourMe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^I can't imagine he could have walked away from Andromeda with any rights to the story....

But if he did! Oh, boy Robert, we'd mob you for your 7 year plan
AM

kimmer
Makra
posted November 23, 2001 21:07     Click Here to See the Profile for kimmer   Click Here to Email kimmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh good grief!

First - Robert - thank you for all the great eps in which you had a part. Your stories were the ones my hubby and I liked the best, and were the reason we recommended this show to so many of our friends.

You will truly be missed. We wish you the best in whatever endeavor you move to. Please let us all know where you wind up as Head Waiter.

Second: Someone explain to Mr. Sorbo and TPTB that we don't NEED more dumb sci-fi shows. Gads, we suffered through 7 horrendous years of Voyager -- that was more than enough for anyone's life time.

I guess this explains some of the stuff we've noticed recently. More bang-bang shoot-em-ups that make NO sense and are boring, boring, boring. Plus the new relationship between TYR and dylan. Gads - give me a show with TYR (played as only he could be by KHC!) as the main character and I'll watch it over and over and over.

I was never a sorbo fan .... but I recently moved him up a notch. Well, he can consider himself lower than low on my scale now. I think a MINUS TEN works for me.

What a crummy way to start the holiday season.

Again Robert, thank you for your fine writing and the best to you in the future!

Iron Chicken
Human
posted November 23, 2001 21:08     Click Here to See the Profile for Iron Chicken   Click Here to Email Iron Chicken     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crap

Not everyone just looks at the pictures and skips the text

You'll be sorely missed Robert. Good luck with your future projects, don't let anyone meddle with them.

Dammit.


IC

Senar
Castalian
posted November 23, 2001 21:09     Click Here to See the Profile for Senar   Click Here to Email Senar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is horrible.

I watch Andromeda for the complicated story lines and the continuity. Take that away and you lose the show. I don't watch most other sci fi because I find it incredibly dull. Andromeda is so much more then that and you make the show what it is.

By removing the depth from the show it will be ruined. A few new people might watch it here and there, but shows that have no real depth or history tend to die out fast. This is so sad and I am sorry that they did this to you Robert.

Tio
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:09     Click Here to See the Profile for Tio   Click Here to Email Tio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh no, and I thought there was to much Dylan in season 1. And now they plan to put MORE of him on Andromeda? How unpleasant...
Anyway, I agree with the idea of making a book of the 'true' Andromeda, not the warped version Tribune is making!

Kate
Nightsider
posted November 23, 2001 21:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Kate   Click Here to Email Kate     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DEar Robert:

My deepest sympathy at this news. I wish you all the best. I don't understand why Kevin is doing this and I am very sorry. I hope you will remain friends and please do not think ill of the man.

He will be getting a letter and he will be losing many fans over this.

------------------
Kate
keeper of the boo boo kisses
http://www.delphi.com/KateP
KateP's Forum

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 21:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're wrong about one thing Abacus, Kevin did NOT have a lot of say in Herc's production. He and Robert Tapert butted heads quite a bit and Robert won.

Which is why I'm particularly apalled right now. Kevin KNOWS what can happen to a show that doesn't listen to its fans. Yeah the internet fan base may be small in percentage but it's pretty much the only continuous source of feedback these people have. Right now I feel personally betrayed by the man. He ought to know better. Hell, he DOES know better. I know I know, it's just a show. But when people invest their time and money in something they've a right to care about it.

I'm forced to believe Kevin doesn't really give a damn about what real sci fi fans want or what 'Drom fans want. He is taking a book out of Rob Tapert's page and saying "to hell with that, I'm going to make the show I want". Hey, it might turn out okay. It might not. The point is that he's turning around and engaging in the same egotistical and short sighted behavior that he criticized Mr. Tapert for. I wonder if he even realizes this.

I wonder if he cares.

Lil

Saine
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 21:14     Click Here to See the Profile for Saine   Click Here to Email Saine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ what everyone else said. They said it much better than I could.

Thanks for the great stories.

Tio
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Tio   Click Here to Email Tio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Somebody should get the cast of Andromeda over here so we can talk about this...

Belbo
Magog
posted November 23, 2001 21:17     Click Here to See the Profile for Belbo   Click Here to Email Belbo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
Originally posted by Cling-On:
I actually vote for changing the name to "Dylan: The Legendary Journey's".

.... starring Kevin "Call me Shatner" Sorbo, the man who put the "duh" into Andromeda!

So the lead actor's ego proves to be a greater menace to the protagonists than the actual villains. Kind of reminiscent of "Star Trek V", isn't it? If anyone needs a pick-me-up (and who doesn't right now?), I can heartily recommend

http://www.jabootu.com/startrekv.htm

- Chris

ArmourMe
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 21:17     Click Here to See the Profile for ArmourMe   Click Here to Email ArmourMe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Dylanite said:
I'm forced to believe Kevin doesn't really give a damn about what real sci fi fans want or what 'Drom fans want. He is taking a book out of Rob Tapert's page and saying "to hell with that, I'm going to make the show I want". Hey, it might turn out okay. It might not. The point is that he's turning around and engaging in the same egotistical and short sighted behavior that he criticized Mr. Tapert for. I wonder if he even realizes this.


CHOKES Oh, Lil, hearing this just makes me that much sicker......
We're all missin' you in chat, sweetie....
AM

tyrdreaming
Magog
posted November 23, 2001 21:21     Click Here to See the Profile for tyrdreaming     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't normally post, but this has brought me out of lurker mode.

I just don't understand it. We finally get a science fiction program that challenges you to use your mind and they decide that the public can't handle it. A show that you have to watch over and over because every time you watch it you catch something you didn't catch the first time.

I don't know about the rest of you but I am highly insulted. Why do these people think that the viewing audience has the intelligence and attention span of a gnat.

Thank you, Robert, for realizing that there is a need for intelligent science fiction. Thank you for creating a show that contains much more than just a "duh" factor. It was wonderful while it lasted. I will continue to be a loyal fan as long as it lasts.

I promise to give the show a fair viewing after your last episode airs, but if it turns out to be the run of the mill stuff they usually call science fiction, I'll go back to my books. At least they don't insult my intelligence.

Thank you again for the show as you originally created it. You and It will be missed.

Kelpie of Kodiak Pride

Aurelius
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 21:23     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurelius   Click Here to Email Aurelius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mother of God, what a horrendous development.

Robert, sir, you will be sorely missed. You were the driving force behind Andromeda. You made it what it is and this was the thanks you got. Disgusting.

For what it's worth, there are hundreds if not thousands of people who are greatly appreciative of the hard work you and all the writers have put in, even when you had to deal with idiotic interefence from the know-nothings at Tribune. Thank you Robert, thank you so much. I'm very sorry it ended so badly.

Now, onto the rant.
To Kevin Sorbo, Fireworks and Tribune.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU MORONS DOING!!!

Robert has been the power behind Andromeda's success and you go and fire him!!!!

Kevin, I'm utterly shocked that you had a hand in this. You were under the impression that the stories were too complicated for us??? What the hell do you take us for, brainless morons who just look at Andromeda for the pretty lights and noises. Well, is that it!!!!
For shame sir, for shame. What you've helped to do is digusting. It just shows the esteem in which you hold your fans. We expected better from you. From the way it's going, you might as well fire the rest of the cast and just have the show about Dylan. Disgraceful.

As for the bloody fools at Tribune and Fireworks, I really hold you in contempt. You're taking an extremely intelligent and creative show and destroying it. The others were right, the tail was just the beginning. It's nothing compared to the colossal blunder you've made now. Do you want people to watch your shows, or have you some sort of death wish. Because people are going to stop watching Andromeda if you start f**king it up.

I'm absolutely disgusted with this development. I hope that the others, Matt and Joe, Zack and Ash and Ethlie stay on and try to repair the damage that the above boneheads have caused.

Andromeda has taken a turn for the worse. This is not a good day

A pissed off "Hail All"
Aurelius

------------------
Hail Rommie, Goddess of the Warship. To you I pledge my undying allegiance
Second in Command of the ROMan Empire
Commander-in-chief of the ROMan Defense Forces
Commander of the ROMan Heavy Battlecruiser Glory of Rommie
Devoted Husband to Saine

"Oh, Andromeda, am I glad to see me." - Rommie, The Widening Gyre

Dylanite
De'Saant
posted November 23, 2001 21:23     Click Here to See the Profile for Dylanite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ArmourMe:
CHOKES Oh, Lil, hearing this just makes me that much sicker......
We're all missin' you in chat, sweetie....
AM

It makes me sick too. I went through this too many times with Xena. I don't think I care to go through it again. We'll see what happens with the remainder of season two and who in the cast decides it's worth sticking around (if Keith goes I'm gone.)

I wish I could get to chat from this computer but it just won't let me.

Lil

Harper's
Vedran
posted November 23, 2001 21:26     Click Here to See the Profile for Harper's   Click Here to Email Harper's     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Posted By Joannie_M

NO!!! This CAN'T be happening!!
My God, you CAN'T, you just CAN'T do this to us. They can't do this to us. I've suffered through this very same process with all my favorite comics, half my favorite TV shows... I can't take it anymore. I can't stand the hype and the dumbing down effect. I can't stand the changes in a great, intelligent premise, I can't handle much more of this. Damnit, there are some people out there who happen to LIKE clever stories and interpersonal conflict. Why doesn't anyone ever NOTICE us?!?!


I feel the same way. Are these people even coming to the boards? Are they even looking at this thread right here? It's like one big frellin' petition that screams(literally and figurativly): You're Screwing Up!

Ok....I'm not the smartest person here. Sometimes the plot really confuses me. But then, I watch the show a few more times, and it clicks. I finally get it! And you know what? When I understand something really complicated on the show, and it suddenly grabs me, I feel so happy with myself. Not only that, but after the show I find myself thinking about it...about the deeper meanings and how they apply themselves. And the insight of it all is so much fun to think about and work with and talk to others about.

I watch Andromeda. I fall asleep when they start shooting...again. Then the interesting part comes up. That would be the character development. The way Harper has to deal with his nightmares. The way Tyr has to worry everyday about not screwing up so he can prove himself. The way Beka has to deal with her addiction. When Rev has to look to the Divine for guidance when he finds life to hard. When Dylan has problems letting go of his past. I laugh, I cry, I nodd, I relate......

But I've never fallen asleep durning those parts.

I'm sorry...I really am sorry. I'm sorry that it happened. I'm sorry the show is turning out this way. I'm sorry that we all have to go through this.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{RW}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I can only pray it'll turn out fine....

Senar
Castalian
posted November 23, 2001 21:28     Click Here to See the Profile for Senar   Click Here to Email Senar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tyrdreaming:
I don't know about the rest of you but I am highly insulted. Why do these people think that the viewing audience has the intelligence and attention span of a gnat.

Fact is that new viewers pick up on things easily enough. I have gotten my whole family into the show. They came in part way, but totally understood it with very few questions (though Rommie confused my mother, when I explained what she was there was no more problem.)

We are not sci fi watching people, so if we get it then anyone can. This is just insulting.

ArmourMe
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 21:33     Click Here to See the Profile for ArmourMe   Click Here to Email ArmourMe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Huggles Lil
I hear you. I can't imagine your frusteration, Lil
We'll see you later when you're home?
AM-THE-FREAKIN-PISSED

keithfan2000
Magog
posted November 23, 2001 21:38     Click Here to See the Profile for keithfan2000   Click Here to Email keithfan2000     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert,
I am newer to the board. I think that the show thus far has been great. They don't need to change the casts and the internal conflict between them is what makes this show so interesting. I am sorry to see you go. I wish you well. Nikole

------------------
"Nova bombs? You're carrying Nova bombs? ~Tyr Anasazi

GenesisII
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 21:38     Click Here to See the Profile for GenesisII   Click Here to Email GenesisII     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry to hear this Robert. You developed exactly the type of sci-fi I long for. I will watch the rest of the season by if the show does get dumbed down. They will lose me as a viewer. My Mom is not a sci-fier but she has no problems understanding the show.

All the best to you in the future. I will sure miss what you brought to this show.

D'Monix
Diamond Than
posted November 23, 2001 21:40     Click Here to See the Profile for D'Monix   Click Here to Email D'Monix     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Damn it Tribune, Damn it Kevin. Andromeda is about depth, about a chaotic universe, and granted the black & white doesn't exist here, but the shades of grey, the plot twists, the conflict, and the continuity are what makes it such an awesome show.

You take that away from us and it ceases to be Andromeda anymore, just a damned hollow shell of itself and a shadow of what it could be.

And for what? for ego? for power? for control? If Tribune wanted to kill this show they could have found no better way to do it, this is like the crap that FOX pulled on Space: Above & Beyond a few years ago..

I'm annoyed, hell with that, i'm angry. and right now i'm of the mind that those behind these shenanigans can take their force-lances and slam them where the sun doesn't shine..
Cos right now the future of this show looks pretty grim, damn... I don't want another dumbed-down television show, might as well watch Everybody Loves Raymond or some tripe like that.

D'

Poohkitty2
Emerald Than
posted November 23, 2001 21:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Poohkitty2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, I am so sorry to see you leave. You gave us an adult scifi show that I feel is the best show ever made. I like a show that makes me think, that gives me a family to love and a show that has science in it.
We couldn't guess what would happen next. My Saturdays were the most exciting day of the week because of this show. You have given us many hours of excitment and joy in a show and that I am truly thankful for.

But now I worry that this show like all the rest will turn out to be a show for children and not for the people who know how to think.
I am also insulted that Tribune etc. thinks that we are so dumb that we need a show made for 5 year olds.

You are leaving behind a great group of writers, that I hope will get to at least carry out your storyline. If Tribune etc., doesn't let them, then we will loose a great show. And a lot of great fans.

Please let us know what your future holds, so we may follow you.
Thanks again for all that you have done for us. We will miss you dearly!!!!!

jb1234
Vedran
posted November 23, 2001 21:47     Click Here to See the Profile for jb1234   Click Here to Email jb1234     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't get it. I really don't.

It's no secret that I have found the second season of DROM less satisfying than the first and I find it extremely galling that Tribune (led by Kevin Sorbo no less) just wants to run the show down the drain.

If I wanted to see stand-alone episodes and mindless action, I would tune in and watch Hercules.

But that obviously isn't going to happen. I will stick around until the end of the second season, but the last half of the season is REALLY going to determine if I'll stick around for the third.

{{{{{{Robert}}}}}

I'm sorry about this. You were one of my favorite DS9 writers and you will be missed on the show. But I understand why you left.

John Burke
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 21:54     Click Here to See the Profile for John Burke   Click Here to Email John Burke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crud, I go out for the day and this is what happens?

I've been fairly vocal about not being upset about the other changes in the show, and giving it a chance. I'll probably still give it a chance. But this is upsetting.

Robert: Thank you for your graciousness and generosity in spending time here with us, and for the awesome show you've given us. (Actually, the second awesome show you've given us... DS9 rules! ) I wish you the best of luck in whatever comes next for you, and I hereby pledge to immediately become a fan of your next project, whatever it is.

As for Andromeda, it sounds like everything I've loved about Season Two is on its way out the door, and everything people have complained about it set to take over. To coin a phrase: Bummer, man...

Cuillin
Perseid
posted November 23, 2001 21:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Cuillin   Click Here to Email Cuillin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
{{{RW}}}

What everyone else has said goes for me too!

First off: Best of Luck to you from here on in! Please keep us updated, you're TOO talented to drop out of sight for long anyway.

Your name being involved with this show got me curious enough to give it a try. So far I've loved what I've seen. An intelligent, well-written, thoughtful show with great continuity,flawed characters and a wonderful *ensemble* cast. Yes, I've had some issues with different things...but the overall show worked well enough-I could live with what bugged me What I've seen of the 2nd season had me thinking this show just might make it to the list of my all-time faves: B5, Farscape, and DS9! I'm going to try and be fair after reading this....but I don't have a good feeling about this AT ALL!
Please don't turn this show into Voyager!

DREN,DREN,DREN...this is NOT a good thing....
Chris

Living Dead Girl
Nightsider
posted November 23, 2001 22:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Living Dead Girl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Wolfe:
Thank God that's over.
I mean, here I've been, being a good boy, keeping my big mouth shut under the advice of my agent and my lawyer (who are very nice people and very smart and who very rarely tell me what to do), and now Kevin's let the cat (or in this case, the Thanksgiving turkey) out of the bag. Finally. So now I can say it:
I am no longer the head writer and executive producer of Andromeda.

Good for you. Not the being-fired part, but the keeping-your-promise part. Although the fault may be with Cult Times. I remember that "too clever, too smart" um, slam, from a Starlog-or-something-lie-it interview, without the Robert-doesn't-work-here-anymore.
quote:
Robert Wolfe:
Okay, so, you're probably wondering, what the hell happened?
Short Answer: Television happened.
Long Answer: As you can tell from Kevin's "too clever" and "too complicated" comments, he, Tribune, and Fireworks wanted to go in another direction with the show. A less clever, less complicated one, no doubt. Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters.
Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory.
And finally, they wanted to rework the visual signature of several of the characters, most especially Trance and Rommie, but also Dylan (less uniforms, more civvies).

Lemme get this straight: the want MORE of the really expensive stuff Andromeda currently SUCKS AT: action, aliens and space battles (no offence to those doing their best to bring us the best FX they can with the Canadian Tire money Tribune and Fireworks are willing to spend on said FX - eye candy is costly) and LESS of the cheap stuff Andromeda ROCKS AT: story arcs, continuity, facinating, complex, conflicted characters. So Andromeda's lousy FX are gonna go from being part of it's charm to all it has to offer. They pay these people to make these decisions?
quote:
Robert Wolfe:
.... Unfortunately, they apparently felt that it was better to just let me go and implement their new vision without me.

Y'know, I think I'm finally on to Tribune. They spend the first year of the show getting themselves a core audience that cares about the story and the characters, a core mostly made up of notoriously loyal sci-fi fans. Then, they spend the rest of the show's run trying to catch the eye of non-fan channel flippers who wouldn't know clever and complex if it bit them in the ass. Sure, the core fan-base is upset, but they stay because sci-fi fans never leave. Watch me walkin'.
quote:
Robert Wolfe:
Like I said, that's television.

Televison *sucks*.
quote:
Robert Wolfe: Fireworks pays the lion's share of the budget, Tribune provides the US stations and has their creative control mandated into all their contracts, and Kevin is the star. The show probably wouldn't exist without him.
The bean counters obviously failed remedial math if they think having more of the stuff they can't afford and less of the stuff they can makes monetary sense. Tribune's number I've got now. And Mr. Sorbo... Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. I watched HtlJ in *spite* of you, not because of you. I was sucked in to Andromeda by Mr. Wolfe's clever and complex stories and characters in *spite* of you, not because of you. You're the weakest link in the ensemble both as a character and as an actor. Everything I've read about you suggests to me you aren't a glory hound and that you really care about the quality and success of the programs you're involved in. Playing up the shows weaknessess by eliminating it's
[darn lynx line limit] ... eliminating it's strengths is not the path to success and quality, and whoever convinced you it was needs to be fired.
quote:
Robert Wolfe: So I'm gone.... So there's a pretty clear delineation. Pre-Ouroboros is me; post-Ouroboros is Kevin, Tribune, and Fireworks.
Or, Pre-kissing-off-Andromeda and Post-kissing-off-Andromeda. I think I'll make an occassion of it. Say goodbye to character and story continuity (g'bye continuity) and hello to the badly-done action taking it's place (hi, badly done action!)
quote:
Robert Wolfe:
I leave behind (left behind? This is more confusing than a time travel episode) a very talented writing staff, now being run by Matt and Joe...

They did write 'The Pack' and hook me on Buffy for life. Something I've been meaning to cuss them out about since Season 4, actually... : )And I'll bet a shiny nickel they don't get EP credits. That'd give 'em delusions of having a say in what they write...
quote:
Robert Wolfe:
And as always, I encourage you to express your opinions about the episodes here and in letters and emails to Tribune, Fireworks and Kevin.

Fax. It's a hardcopy, but it's not *mail*. It's the safe fanbitching alternative.

I don't have a lot of room left (and it's so your fault this post is so long) so forgive the lack of paragraph breaks. I had zero interest in Andromeda when I first heard about it. I didn't follow it's development, I watched the first two episodes under duress and FELL ASLEEP during the third. But I would flip to (and from) it occassionally if I was home Saturday afternoon, maybe have it on in the background. And then you gave us "Character Building" February, with episodes like Pearls, MoT, MoaDD, H20, and I found myself watching entire episodes straight thru with *out* falling asleep. Then, I was taping them if I was out Saturday. Then, I added it to my weekly VCR program, just in case I forgot to tape it. Then I saw IHCRAL and I was hooked. Repeat viewings, scouring the web for reviews and tidbits and a place to discuss the amazingness that was the story and the characters buried under the cheesy action and FX. I'm right now composing a letter to EW in response to their ENT coverage explaining...
[line] ...explaining how TOS does live again, on Andromeda, with the kind of ensemble-wide character development I haven't seen on TV since the first few seasons of Buffy. Yeah, you heard me. If that's the goal you set for yourselves, you reached it. Anyway, my question: I've noticed a lot of plot and character development seems to be happening off-camera (Dylan warns the KW about the MWS) or it's implied instead of explicit (Harper and Rommie both being a little *off* this season). Was that your intent, or was this stuff forced underground by Fireworks/Tribune/Sorbo? And if the latter, what plot and character development would we have seen the first 12 episodes of S2, if you'd had your way? Also, when the tail thing came out, I imagined you and your team asking yourselves if this was the hill you wanted to die on, and deciding it wasn't, that there were more important things to fight for. Looking back, knowing they were gonna turf you anyway, are there any hills you wish you'd risked dying on?

Shambalayogi
Nietzschean
posted November 23, 2001 22:01     Click Here to See the Profile for Shambalayogi   Click Here to Email Shambalayogi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dylanite:
You're wrong about one thing Abacus, Kevin did NOT have a lot of say in Herc's production. He and Robert Tapert butted heads quite a bit and Robert won.

Which is why I'm particularly apalled right now. Kevin KNOWS what can happen to a show that doesn't listen to its fans
Lil


1) I agree with Lil on this issue. I'm sure Kevin complained in interviews, at least since Herc ended, that he had little control of a great deal of HTLJ. Rob Tapert took a lot away from Htlj in terms of writers and staff of all kinds, to reroute them to the Xena show. Kevin did not like that and many other things but had no real say about them.

I do hope that we're wrong about what this appears to say about Kevin and Andromeda.

2) JUST WAIT A MINUTE, KEVIN! About those comlicated plots. Just because you don't think YOU can understand them, doesn't mean the rest of us can't!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Shambalayogi (edited November 23, 2001).]

Delvo2
Pyrian
posted November 23, 2001 22:07     Click Here to See the Profile for Delvo2   Click Here to Email Delvo2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The whole issue of "intelligence" here is just weird. Yes, the show induces thought in the audience, but it's not as if a viewer needed to be really smart to watch and enjoy. It had just the touch of depth and complication that drama needs, but it wasn't like a PhD dissertation. I'd like to see KS list off the complications in the show's plot and specify which ones he thinks an average adult human brain can't handle. Surely he doesn't actually think we're all that stupid; so what's the real reason that he's hiding with this flimsy excuse?

But then again, maybe some people, especially the ones he's been dealing with on this show, really are that unimaginibly, incomprehensibly stupid... I mean, how many times do the Tribunites have to watch their ratings plummet and the hate mail pour in before they figure out that what they're doing to every show they can get their claws on is actually steering them AWAY from what draws audiences and TOWARD what their viewers hate most? So utterly clueless about how TV and TV audiences work, and they're supposed to be pros at TV management! This is like a professional forestry consultant who advises all his/her clients to dump tons of cyanic acid (which would kill everything, even bacteria and fungi) on his/her land!

Chimera
Magog
posted November 23, 2001 22:14     Click Here to See the Profile for Chimera   Click Here to Email Chimera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm a newbee on this board, and very sorry that my first post have to be about your departure Mr Wolfe.

Andromeda has always been an ambitious and intelligent show.That was what got me hooked, and hearing that Sorbo and co are trying to destroy my favourite show just pisses me off. Don't they understand what people want to see? Do they think the viewers are idiots?..They are insulting our intelleigence.

Mr Wolfe, I sincearly hope that you can find someplace where your talent can come to be fully expressed.


Techfreak Ziana
High Guard Moderator
posted November 23, 2001 22:15     Click Here to See the Profile for Techfreak Ziana   Click Here to Email Techfreak Ziana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Time for Part 2...

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