- Temper's Ball
- Guilds (OOC)


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Author Character Defence
Spike
Solera

Posted: 2002-08-19 19:48     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Quote:
What makes OOC spying:
1) Joining a guild and giving away its memberlist to heathens.
2) Putting someone in a guild with the express purpose of getting their memberlist.
3) Putting someone in a guild to learn their plans.



Yeah, umm... I've never understood why this was OOC Spying.

If I went over to afghanistan, learned afghani, infiltrated thier base found all thier members, found out thier plans, and reported it to the President, I'd be given a medal.

Here it's seen as bad, and OOC Spying. It's far from OOC! It's playing a character. It's IC. It's RPing someone else, so you can further your faith. It's tactical espionage.

OOC Spying would be hacking into a private database, or sneaking into a faith chat, or something like that.

[Edit: This posts makes me a Solera, and I waste it debating OOC Spying. Woo.]


IA! IA! CTHULHU FHTAGN!
"Normal? If we're all freaks, and you're normal, you're the freak."
Dark - Huh What?! - BDSM
KBR - Truth, Beauty, Freedom, and Love

[ This Message was edited by: Spike on 2002-08-19 19:49 ]


SoulDemon
Admin

Posted: 2002-08-19 19:49     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
"OOC Spying is any way of gleaming information which is not offered by ingame mechanics.

Simply one line. Not hard."

Then I expect to never see a TBL member ever use a faith database. That is not part of the game mechanics. I don't recall ever building that into the game. I doubt Dustin has either.

But lets see what your answer to this question is: Do you use a faith database, or do you store every single scout you make in your aviary? Have you ever used one?

Go ahead and adapt that to suit your needs, LD. Or perhaps you mispoke on interpreting what your version of a rule that doesn't exist is.

----

Now before you or TBL get yer panties in a bunch, I'm not picking on you or your guild - just proving a point. There's no rule about "OOC spying" for a reason, and the community's version of it is very easy to adapt to what benefits them. Like you saying anything that doesn't involve in game mechanics is OOC spying - yet everyone uses a faith database which is not part of the game.


Pale night whisper - break.
Bright hopeful dreams - destroy.
Withered flesh remains - consume.


Portia
Tiram

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:11     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Hugs Spike for using his Solera post to make a point

Face it guys, you got caught. Now quit trying to play the victim and fight the war.

No we will not tell you who told us. Get over it and move on. Because bitching and calling us cheaters really isn't going to change our minds.


Portia
Sunblade really knows how to get a girl hot.
GM ENeMA- Oh what a feeling!


Tara
Nobleman

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:17     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Can't clarify what LD said, he always has a better way of explaining his words than I do ;>


But Spike, if they don't tell us who told them, then for all we know they DID get someone to get their own pass to that forum, or used someone's friend's pass to get in the forum. How should we know? Trust them because they say they didn't do it that way?...HA! *LOL* Right.

The next time I hear about someone infiltrating a guild an' passing their info around or going to chats or anything else like that, I'll just shrug an' smile an' say oh well, that's just someone playing their RP character, too bad for you.

Oh but Portia, we are fighting this war. Enema's lost 2 top 10 kingdoms so far an' where ever Stee's was ranked when it started. More to come, never fear, we'll get around to killing yer kingdom soon enough I'm sure.



Hey Stee ...

"Even without the info, something would have happened. ISA and ENeMA would have had to hit down, for lack of other targets, and we would have hit down against more members. "

What about ISA hitting Enema/DoW? Oh that wouldn't have happened though I'm sure *Smirks* Nice of you to show us exactly where Enema's loyalties lie though, which sure is NOT with their -Darden- Faithmates.




[ This Message was edited by: Tara on 2002-08-19 20:25 ]


Portia
Tiram

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:31     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Ya know what Tara, that's cool. Attack us, beat us, hurt us WhispersSome of us like it when you do that.Winks It is a game after all and war is what makes the game fun.


[edited]Jeeze Tara, just quit while you still have some dignity. This dancing and lying is really unbecomming.

Quote:
The OOC Spying thing comes from the fact that Enema would rather "protect its source" than show the traitor to the Isonian faith for what he or she is. A traitor


They are not a traitor to us, they are a traitor to you, therefore we are under no obligation to tell you who they are. We owe you nothing but a good fight, and damn it that is what you will get.







Portia
Sunblade really knows how to get a girl hot.
GM ENeMA- Oh what a feeling!




[ This Message was edited by: Portia on 2002-08-19 20:47 ]


Killie
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:34     Profile;   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Tara,

I always hate the OOC spying things, the line is always so fuzzy and so many people each week redecide on what they class as being OOC spying and what is not.

I have had spies in loF back in the days of monarchy, did i really mind??? I was pissed but I was pissed that I had allowed someone to spy on me, to be honest, if people do it then fair enough. This game has so many political messes that I can't say some spying really makes much difference to me. I will do my best just to protect my guild from it because in any situation someone is going to attempt it.

Here is a scenario though and I want to know what people think about it.

If a foret gave me a logon to his database or message board or whatever I would use it. I would never go out and activly search for that information but I am willing to take the things offered to me. Why should I not? I mean do people not use other faith's databases anyway and such like, it is all OOC spying in the end. This game is full of intrigue and deception and it always has been and where does ooc spying really change it? I mean, getting anotehr faith to give u scouts is ooc spying and that has always gone on.





Killie
LoF Co-GM
~SoCK GM~ ~Progeny~ ~LoFT~
The Drunken Eskimo

[ This Message was edited by: Killie on 2002-08-19 20:36 ]


Tara
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:43     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
*Winks at Portia* Good, glad ya like it because I like givin it ;> *L*


Killie, that's all good I guess, now anyway right? It's all "just people RPing their characters" isn't it? I'm glad I know now I don't have to worry about hearing someone bitch about people going to chat rooms or message boards or being in their guild either since it's all "just part of the intrigue of the game" right? hmmmm hmmmm Something tells me these same people would be bitching about that too.


I don't mind they used the info, more power to 'em, I now have something to attack every day for the rest of the age now without having to worry about finding numbers or anything else. That's fine by me.

What I don't like, is the protecting the person that turned traitor on us. Only reason to do that is so they can use that person again. Or it's because there is no Iso GM or AGM that passed that thread over an' they got someone's pass for themselves. How should we know unless they say where they got it from?


Oh right, one more thing, Sunblade, the "shitte" thing is just a habit of mine, just like the "an' " thing, so go ahead an' make fun of how I fuckin type, how much more LAME could you be? *ROFL*



[ This Message was edited by: Tara on 2002-08-19 20:46 ]


Khalistov
Tiram

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:45     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Quote:
Hell Enema itself was ALL FOR killing off every Foret kingdom in the top 200 last age, so I guess that was just a set up by Enema an' Khal outright lied about it from the start.



Hell yes it was a lie.

There was no secret made that it was my intention to hit the #2 guild (TBL), and Killie's intent to hit the #1 guild (Don't recall who it was) and secure a solid Darden victory with the top 5 ranks being all Darden.

You see, you keep insisting that we all do "black ops" and "dishonoarble" things, as to make some elusive point.

My question is "What's your point?"

Sure, we all plan some crappy things at some time or another.

We just don't get caught. You did.

Suck it up.


Tara
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:50     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Fine Khal. I'm fuckin done with the lot of you anyway.

Grunt
Solera

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:50     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
not popular sure
scum kill part of game
UG part of game
you want to pay 1$ a month to scum kill me I WIN
now for my rant tho I have not been scummed

you suck so bad all you can do is hide and go hehe I just killed that dude cuz he is an ass
well you the ass
face people on the feild of battle
I have never met a scummer worth his salt that could not change to war and kill
to hide as a suicide kingdom serves no purpose other than piss people off
I for one am against scum kill outside of war
ok fine back to beer



Official Dung of The Golden Horde
Grunt Like War
Serpent and �xeIOM
Death is Inevitable Life is how you face it


Thyarr
Mr. Evernight

Posted: 2002-08-19 20:55     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
I have left my guild of my own accord, because I disagreed with something that was done. I really don't blame Kat at all. I just need to not be here right now.

I'm frankly glad that I don't have to deal with these politics for a little while.

However, I do have one last hurrah.

I would just like to take a moment to clear something up. Tara, you piss me right off. You argued with me on ICQ last night over this for HOURS that it 'was just a joke' and even MORE, at the beginning of the thread, you said that it was a forgery. I don't like your lying. You blatantly lied. You've gone from 'that's a fake' to 'that's OOC spying that you took that from our website.'

You even went so far as to question the leadership of KBR.

"You have received a message!
Who's the GM of KBR anyway? I sure as hell don't "ask" my members first about things I think we should do for our faith, they follow orders period or they leave"

In conclusion:

  • Fuck Guilds.
  • Fuck TBL.
  • Fuck you, Tara.
  • Fuck Isonian websites.
  • Fuck people who leak from Isonian websites.
  • Fuck Isonia - if I come back, it's damn well being Foret or Darden.


*frolicks out*




-Thyarr | BDSM ENeMA
and this great blue world of ours seems a house of leaves
moments before the wind.


seaNile_
Ominar

Posted: 2002-08-19 21:10     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
you da man Thyarr. And you're right on.
You my friend, are a "closet Darden". ;-)


Killie
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 21:15     Profile;   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
*nods*

Yeah Thyarr should have been LoF like he promised... ah well.. now guilds game has lost him :-(


Killie
LoF Co-GM
~SoCK GM~ ~LoFT AGM~
The Drunken Husky


Stee Jans
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 21:19     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Nice spin, impressive.

I guess that shows my loyalties with ISA, whom I have decried more times than all other guilds -combined-. Thanks for the revelation, I didn't even realize myself.

Or, maybe it might be the fact that I've never hit guilds in successive wars, and generally that doesn't happen, and we had the NAP just expire today, I believe.

I'm sure that ISA or us would have waited for the NAP to run its due time just for a reason to tangle again.

I mean, fuck, why hit when you're ready, when you can sit on your turns?

But nice spin, still pretty nifty.

Oh yeah, and my realm sucked, so stop claiming that as a point of pride. :P I mean, hell, Bat broke me.

;)


ENeMA GM
The Warhawk is Sharpening his Talons.


Tara
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 21:42     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Yep .. see ya 'round Thyarr. Bye bye.

Sartek
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 21:52     Profile;   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
*thwaps every single person who is arguing*

Shaddup and fight. For the love of Pete this shit is getting old.

*stalks off to go hit another heathen, mumbling and twitching the whole time*


________________________________________________________________________
~ SARTEK ~
Your Blood is like wine upon my lips
03/29/02


Adder
Ominar

Posted: 2002-08-19 22:30     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
I've seen a few instances of spying myself.Three ages ago in LGS an asswipe came to me with a guilds officers numbers.This person thought their GM was a fool and wanted him killed.I disliked this person and indeed killed him and his guild in a matter of days.That same age we too had a spy who fed the same info about us back to them.Also this person sabatagued our banner.It was Karma in a way now that I look back on it.

The next age a TOTALLY DIFFERANT dickhead came to me wanting his GM killed.I had learned the hard way that this is no victory.This is a cheap and crappy way to get things done no matter how much you dislike the enemy guild or person.I believe I did the right thing this time though,I outed the spy and pretty much screwed him for anyone wanting him in LGS.It was no easy choice but I did not have the guilt to battle.It felt good to do the right thing and now I will not even have to think about it next time.Sunny you are honorbound to keep your word if this scumbag got your oath of silence.I feel sorry for you I have been in your shoes.The only one who can fix this is the scumbag himself.By his confession your off the hook.Of course weasles don't really have freinds so he won't.Good luck Sunny.


Snake-GM-����� & ���-LGS
TGH (KICK ASS�)-guilds...IOM-Valid
you can call me "Adder" but I'm the subtractor
Akta dig f�r ormens bett


Tremordred
Ominar

Posted: 2002-08-19 22:48     Profile;   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
I only wanted you dead because of your constant failure to put a space after your periods. Your awful syntax drove me to it!! Who can blame me though?

Venus
Venrii

Posted: 2002-08-19 22:55     Profile;   E-mail   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
You know , this thread has to be the single most amusing thing to happen to guilds for awhile:p

i personally am enjoying it immensly..but i have to say, i realize i quit, but im foret...i thought i always would be
but please for the love of God, dont take tbl there. id like to be able to go back to foret if i decide to play again, but if tbl goes foret, id have to join Enema:p

lol of course if u want to watch half of foret run to darden..then join them..by all means:p



VenusFervent
Success is the ability to close the door on your past, regardless of your failures, and move forward


Little Devil
Solera

Posted: 2002-08-20 12:14     Profile;   Homepage Edit   Reply w/Quote
Okay i guess i will explain it further for those haveing trouble with a simple phrase.

Faith databases are not ooc spying. Why not. They are based on in game mechanics being the retrieval of scouts.

Now once you get your scout if you keep it in a text file. if you put it in a faith database or if you print em out to put in a shoebox to keep em for later use. It is IC information gotten through Game mechanics.

Off course if i'd go to the foret database would get my way in their database and steal their information ..... That would be something way different. It would be like me hacking into evernight to get a view on every existing land straight from the tables behind the game.

.....

Now the difference is. Seemingly this data came from a messageboard. Now how can you claim this is IC spying. coz its spying whatever some try to tell.

Yet they claim its not OC spying. So it has to be IC spying. So hmm. How can you access such messageboards through canon. I'm truly intrested since its a feature i havent found yet.

But well yeah i guess i'm just the last new newbie and have no clue what is in the game. =p i prolly still have to find how to recruit troops.

PS. You might notice i didnt accuse anyone of breaking a rule. I just stated that they shouldnt call it any differently then it is.

A monkey is a monkey and not a dog as some old prophet might have said.

Now if this hurts the self feelings and ego's of some to be said that what they do is that. Well thats not my fault. It is theirselves they should look at ....

Personally people have come with ooc spying stuff to me to in the past. And i allways turned them over. And never used their info.

The sole ocasion where i only kept to demote em to rank 6 at first is when their was no information taken and none offered in any way. But in the end those were removed to after i was told they did their action again.

....

Honestly it's your morals. You act upon your consience. But admit it when you do something.

[ This Message was edited by: Little Devil on 2002-08-20 12:20 ]


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