Stirring Cauldrons! (was Re: BD and jargon)

Dear All

You don't have to feel too strange stirring for an
hour...  There is scientist who has done research
in physics who has found reason for the benefit of
this action, (beyond creating colloidal
substances).  He won the Angstrom Award for
Physics in 1992 (?) for his discovery of what has
been termed "Hyper-Dimensional Physics".  I cannot
vouch for the absolute correctness of his
findings... but it did win him a prestigeous
international award and recognition:  Here it is
in summary...

In his research he looked at planets, but for our
purposes, think of the vortex of water in your
biodynamic "cauldron"....ok.... pickle bucket. He
found that spinning matter in Space, has the
affect of creating a conduit through which "fourth
dimensional energy" moves, leaving behind "third
dimensional signatures"...meaning physical signs
of the fourth dimensional energetic presence....
A few of the signatures he points to are:

On ALL the terrestrial planets in our solar
system, (meaning not gaseous, like Venus), the
largest upwellings of energy (such as volcanoes)
are found at 19.5 degrees latitude, North or
South...  ie...  the Hawaiian Islands on Earth,
Olympus Mons on Mars....

He saw these as "upwellings" of "4D" energy, and
looked for a sign of the "inwelling" and found it
at the poles....  Saturn has clouds the circulate
in vorticular manner at the poles at speeds of 600
mph... and these clouds turn at hard angles,
forming an Octogon (8 sided circle).  This
geometric formation of "clouds" indicates a higher
dimensional energy that moves in the crystaline
sacred geometry of our fundamental "3D" universe.

Not long after learning this, I read "Secrets of
the Soil" where the story of Dr. Patrick Flanagan
is told.  He found the effect of "vortexes" on
water is so great that clean water with minerals
treated with vorticular motion is the secret to
the "Hunza" people's long lives... up to 135
years!  (The water they drink comes from high up
on mountains and cascades down long creeks and
falls which creates millions of vortexes and
eddies as the water finds it's way to the
villages...)   Patrick Flanagan has patented a
"crystal energy water"...  sold exclusively
through a company called "LightForce"....
lightforce.com..........

If you think BioDynamics is a bit way out...  Hear
this.... The above mentioned scientist won the
Angstrum Award by using the mathematics he
"decoded" from studying the "monuments of mars",
the relative angles and geometry of various
anomolous structures...(pyramids, a face, etc...)
found in the area called "Cydonia" on Mars.  His
name is Richard Hoaglund.  He has been a
scientific advisor to NASA and NBC (for Walter
Cronkite).

It was the "confluence" of these two discoveries
which enflamed my passion for BioDynamics, as I
learned them at exactly the same time I started
the first CSA in my area.

Who knows what the relationship is between this
"4D" energy and the "etheric", "astral", and
"egoic", realities?

Robin's, Alison's, and Hugh's posts follow.

Martin Nyberg
GreenMan Farm & CSA

>Dear Allison,
>
>Thanks for addressing Robin's concerns so well. I quite
>agree it is wrong
>to present BD solely in the terms of materialistic
>science and talk of
>colloids, bacteria, enzymes, etc. miss the mark when we
>are really
>concerned with physical, etheric, astral and egoic
>formative forces.
>
>We could talk about formative forces as geometrical
>(physical), plant
>(etheric), animal (astral) and sentient (egoic) if we
>chose. It is
>possible, even desirable, to do this. And it wouldn't
>miss the point so
>widely. But to talk of colloids, bacteria, enzymes,
>DNA--all of which
>arise as results of the aforementioned formative
>forces--as the meat of
>BD would be like the gunslinger who hit the trigger
>before he cleared
>leather--and shot his foot. It's not good to miss the
>target.
>
>I'm hoping over the course of our study of AGRICULTURE
>that a glossary
>will develop that gives us the linguistic tools
to bridge
>this
>communication gap (not generation gap).
>
>In closing I apologize if it's a burder to anyone, but
>I've copied
>Allison and Robin's posts in this regard in case anyone
>needs a quick
>review.
>
>Best,
>Hugh Lovel
>
>>Subject:     Re: BD and jargon
>>Sent:        8/31/98 2:30 PM
>>Received:    8/31/98 4:19 PM
>>From:        ALISON EADES, alison@watating.demon.co.uk
>>Reply-To:    BD e-mail, bdnow@igg.com
>>To:          BD e-mail, bdnow@igg.com
>>
>>Robin
>>
>>I think this is interesting because explaining 'What is
>Biodynamics'
>>varies with
>>everyone you talk to. I don't think its a
generation gap
>as such. Until
>>recently
>>I worked for an organic/conservation farmer, older than
>me but only in
>>his
>>forties, and although I struggled when he asked, he was
>quite open to
>>talk of
>>energies though I did notice a bit of a blank when I
>mentioned astrality
>>in the
>>same sentence as stinging nettles! When I first looked
>at the
>>Agriculture
>>lectures it was total gobbledegook. I am now 5 years
>older and much more
>>receptive. I have very little anthroposophical
knowledge
>but do
>>recognise its
>>value in understanding BD. I think it also
brings up the
>point of when
>>to talk
>>and when to keep your peace. Its hard sometimes, for me
>anyway, to NOT
>>want to
>>talk about BD because I find it so exciting and vital.
>But I am learning
>>that
>>there is a time and a place. It seems to me that
many of
>Steiner's
>>intiatives
>>did not come from him at all. All he did was respond to
>those who wanted
>>to know
>>and who came to ask him for help (education, bd,
>eurythmy). As for the
>>language,
>>to me it _must_ be different. I agree that
>anthroposophical jargon is
>>quite a
>>sea to wade through, not made any easier by much of the
>text being in
>>Steiner's
>>turn of the century German. But if we try to explain
>everything in words
>>we
>>already understand to mean a certain thing, I feel we
>may miss the
>>point. To me,
>>getting into BD has been/is demanding a totally new way
>of looking at
>>things.
>>Maybe stirring for one hour does break down the
colloids
>but if you need
>>to
>>change the real reason so much is there really
any point
>in trying to
>>explain
>>BD? I think I responded to your posting because its a
>real nail-biter
>>for me. I
>>want so much to talk about BD but have a fear people
>will dismiss me in
>>the
>>future as a loon. BDNOW is brilliant in this respect
>because if I'm
>>already a
>>loon, there are many far madder than me out there! I
>wish to understand
>>BD a lot
>>better so I can talk to whoever I wish, even the
head of
>my old
>>(conventional)
>>research institute, with such confidence that they will
>not be able to
>>suppress
>>an amused smile as I talk but will go to bed that night
>with a part of
>>them
>>feeling slightly uneasy that perhaps there was
>_something_ worth
>>considering in
>>what I said.
>>
>>Alison
>>
>>P.S.    When I say "you", above, I don't mean 'you'
>personally. I should
>>say
>>'one' but that always sounds so like Prince Charles.
>Actually I quite
>>like PC,
>>so maybe I will adapt my grammar. One may even start a
>fashion!
>>
>>
>>
>>Robin Duchesneau (by way of BD NOW!) wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Martin and Ferdy,
>>>
>>> So I gather that I am the youngest guy here!  I tell
>you I must always
>>> 'translate' the 'Anthroposphical jargon' into
>something I can grasp.  For
>>> this I must read many books and meditate forever, but
>in the end the efforts
>>> keep me here.  I think we are facing somekind of
>generational gap.  Most
>>> young people have lost the sence of the Divine
and all
>that comes with It.
>>> So then the mysticism that lies in many biodynamic
>discussions could
>>> certainly 'scare and repulse' more that
'enlighten and
>inform'.
>>>
>>> I know that language can sometime be confusing.  So I
>believe that if the
>>> 'BioDynamic Agricultural Method' is to survive
>throughout the ages, the
>>> language might have to be a bit flexible.  This holds
>true for younger
>>> crowds who know not even what the word Biodynamic
>means, but not for those
>>> who have studied many years in Anthroposophy.  I can
>understand that words
>>> like "etheric and elemental beings" have their place
>in explaining
>>> biodynamics.
>>>
>>> I have talked to many friends (of my age) about
>biodynamics and have come to
>>> the conclusion that I must use words like
>'microorganisms' and
>>> 'photosyntesis' if I want them to be interested.
>Telling them that a farm
>>> is like an 'organism' also works fine.  The stirring
>water for one hours is
>>> a touchy situation.  Telling them that 'life forces
>from the cosmos' enter
>>> the water simply does not pass.  They (most of the
>time) look at me as if I
>>> was a freak on somekind of biodynamic high ( I
>sometimes feel like I am).
>>> Most understand that plants assimilate subtances when
>they are in
>>> 'colloidal' (very small charged particles) form.  So
>they understand that
>>> stirring the compost preps. in the water for an hour
>can break down soil
>>> particles in colloids.
>>>
>>> Please dont get me wrong. I do not want to put down
>anything, I simply want
>>> to be inclusive and keep the biodynamic method ALIVE.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> Ferdinand Vondruska (by way of BD NOW!) wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear Martin,
>>> > Many thanks for your kind reply. U may call me
>Ferdinand, no problem. At
>>> > 55 I am creeping closer to the average age of 76!
>REgarding 'fogies' -
>>> > all my kids called us, their parents, so. And some
>still call me that
>>> > way, my dauger of 14, from time to time, - the
>oldest 32 has stopped
>>> > doing so, as she, now has kids of her own..... It
>means: fog, fog in
>>> > one's head, unclear, late, somewhat retarded and so
>forth. And, kids, in
>>> > a loving manner, can call their parents like that.
>So, I know that I am
>>> > a 'fogy' from time to time (as some of the BDNOW
>members would happily
>>> > agree to).
>>> >
>>> > Martin, I really respect your contribution(s) and
>questions. They are
>>> > practical, to the point and, I must say: beginners
>are always like a
>>> > breeze of fresh air. Many thanks for your support.
>With kindes regards.
>>> > Ferdinand
>>> >
>>> > BD NOW! wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Mr. Vondruska,
>>> > >
>>> > > I did not get around to reading your email fully
>>> > > until, (as you can see, very late on a saturday
>>> > > night...well Sunday morning actually).  I want to
>>> > > thank you for you candor and refreshing dialogue,
>>> > > full of life for an old "fogy", what ever that
>>> > > means.... I may not be as young as you think. I am
>>> > > indeed a beginner in farming and BD though.  I am
>>> > > 42... but considering the average age in the US
>>> > > for farmers is 76 or something like that, that
>>> > > makes me very rare. It is true that in the US
>>> > > there will be a great need for young farmers in
>>> > > the near future.  I hope I can find my way out of
>>> > > the garden to find them and offer them some
>>> > > mentoring when they (and I) are ready.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have a great garden full of ANGER too, by the
>>> > > way.  I carry with me often, without anyone
>>> > > knowing but me.  It has moved me to do great
>>> > > things in the past... righteous anger is a great
>>> > > motivator.  Hope we can both keep it that way and
>>> > > not allow it to damage us...
>>> > >
>>> > > Are you participating in the Online study of
>>> > > "Agriculture" by R. Steiner?
>>> > >
>>> > > Martin Nyberg
>>> > > GreenMan Farm & CSA
>>> > >
>>> > > >Dear Martin,
>>> > > >..............few things are served on a silver
>platter.
>>> > > >Same holds true
>>> > > >for BD. I think you may have to dig
through a lot
>of   s
>>> > > >h e l l s (as
>>> > > >the my native nighbour says) before you find the
>rocky
>>> > > >seashore. I like
>>> > > >your comment(s) though. You appear to be a young
>man -
>>> > > >that's what we
>>> > > >need on the BDNOW (and women, too) who speak
>their
>>> > > >mind(s). I am a bit
>>> > > >of an old fogy (as my kids would say) but when I
>hear (I
>>> > > >should say
>>> > > >read) your post, my heart jumps with delight. I
>see my
>>> > > >own kids (in
>>> > > >their teens and twens) kicking (my) ass
and that,
>dear
>>> > > >Martin, kept me
>>> > > >young, ..... so far. So, bring your questions and
>>> > > >concentrate on the
>>> > > >answeres. use the delete button as much as you
>>> > > can (I had
>>> > > >to learn that
>>> > > >trick, too) and (AND) don't give up.
>Incidentally, I do
>>> > > >grow certain
>>> > > >things, too - anger is one of them, and, if well
>>> > > >cultivated, it does a
>>> > > >lot of good. Incidentally, ANGER and
AGRAMAINIUSH
>-his
>>> > > >name in Persia-
>>> > > >(AHRIMAN) are well connected. Steiner's name, to
>be
>>> > > >brief, for all the
>>> > > >hardening forces and LUCIFER, the other end of
>the
>>> > > >equation, the sum of
>>> > > >all the dissolving forces. In the centre,
CHRIST.
>Have a
>>> > > >good one my
>>> > > >friend. Ferdinand
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Martin Nyberg (by way of BD NOW!) wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >> Mr. Roboz,
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Thanks for posting this, as I am very
>interested
>>> > > >> in the cost, program, and location of the
>>> > > >> conference. Mr. Altimueller seems a bit evasive
>>> > > >> and reveals an intent that seems less than
>>> > > >> altruistic... could be my imagination.  And
>>> > > >> someone tell me, a BD novice, who the heck is
>>> > > >> Ahriman?
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> My interest in BD is agricultural, not
>>> > > >> philosophical.  (I am a Buddhist and find it
>>> > > >> challenging enough to keep up with the depth
>and
>>> > > >> breadth of that philosophy).
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> However, having asked this group for basic
>>> > > >> composting info (for a BD beginner) and getting
>>> > > >> one reply from Mr. Roboz, I am curious as to
>the
>>> > > >> true intent of this group.  Is it not the
>>> > > >> propagation of BD wisdom and practices to a
>wider
>>> > > >> audience?  Why the cold reception for an
>admitted
>>> > > >> novice seeking mentoring?
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Frankly, much of the dialogue here is so
>heavily
>>> > > >> weighted to the philosophical, I wonder how
>many
>>> > > >> on this list are actually working in the
>garden?
>>> > > >> I remain an eager student of BioDynamics,
>however
>>> > > >> hard it may be to find quality instruction.  A
>>> > > >> maxim in Buddhism is that no one ever attained
>>> > > >> enlightenment through the intellect, and BD
>seems
>>> > > >> unnecessarily confusing... as if to give it a
>more
>>> > > >> mystical aire than it warrants.  A philosophy
>of
>>> > > >> the masses should be easy to absorb and
>utilize.
>>> > > >> Make it so.... please.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Martin Nyberg
>>> > > >> GreenMan Farm & CSA
>>> > > >> Vashon Island, USA
>>> > > >> Reply to greenman@wolfenet.com
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> >  Dear bdnow'ers,
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >   I had faxed Christoph with a request for
>info. on
>>> > > >the
>>> > > >> >BD conf. in
>>> > > >> >Penticton. I had thought that, if not ready,
>he would
>>> > > >> >just say, it will come
>>> > > >> >out in good time.  Below is my fax and his
>response.
>>> > > >You
>>> > > >> >are free to contact
>>> > > >> >him to heart's content with you thoughts.
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Aug. 21
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Dear Christoph,
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >  If you have worked out the details for the
>BD Conf.
>>> > > >in
>>> > > >> >Penticton, BC, can
>>> > > >> >you fax me later.  I will then transform it
>into email
>>> > > >> >and let bdow list
>>> > > >> >knwo.  There have been some demand for info.
>>> > > >> >Many thanks, Michael
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Aug. 21
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Dear Micahel,
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >  Good and dedicated people have worked and
>are
>>> > > >working
>>> > > >> >very hard toward
>>> > > >> >presenting top quality conference in
>Penticton, Oct.
>>> > > >> >3--Nov. 1/98.
>>> > > >> >Approprate advance information has been and
>will
>>> > > >> continue
>>> > > >> >to be published
>>> > > >> >when ready, but, only those intemately
>involved in the
>>> > > >> >day-to-day work know
>>> > > >> >what information can or cannot be put out at
>any given
>>> > > >> >point in time.
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Constanly stirring the "internet pot"
can only
>serve
>>> > > >to
>>> > > >> >create confusion and
>>> > > >> >spoil the soup.  Let it simmer and it becomes
>>> > > >> delicious.
>>> > > >> >Untimely and
>>> > > >> >incomplete information has already caused
>>> > > >embarrassment
>>> > > >> >and worse.
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >There are forces at work here at which I am
>sure you
>>> > > >are
>>> > > >> >subsconsiously
>>> > > >> >aware, but do not see in full clarity.  The
>interest
>>> > > >is
>>> > > >> >Ahriman's greatest
>>> > > >> >triumph to date, and he is making use of it
>>> > > >> (through well
>>> > > >> >intentioned
>>> > > >> >people) for his purpose to the fullest!
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Sincerley yours,
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Christoph
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Christoph Altemueller
>>> > > >> >Pres. British Columbia BD Assoc.
>>> > > >> >RR#3, 4895 Marshall Rd.
>>> > > >> >Duncan, BC, Canada V9L 2X1
>>> > > >> >250-746-4117  / Fax: 250-748-4287
>>> > > >> >
>>> > > >> >Please feel free to contact Christoph with
>your inner
>>> > > >> >thoughts and feelings.
>>> > > >> >Michael
>>> > > >> >Michael Roboz
>>> > > >> >604-987-4935
>>> > > >> >604-986-9608 fax
>>> > > >> >mroboz@unix.infoserve.net
>>
>>
>
>


Martin Nyberg
Seattle 2000
Community Relations Coordinator
GreenMan Farm & CSA