Everyone at Kill Rock Stars had been waiting on tenter hooks to hear even a smidgen of the new Unwound album, Leaves Turn Inside You. Everything that the band had talked about doing was totally ambitious - they built their own recording studio to record the album and decided upon a double LP and a CD with CD-ROM videos. Everybody was dying to hear it, but the band said, "We're not ready yet." Months later, Tina heard a couple of songs. She said they made her cry. Reports started trickling in. We started to think we had a masterpiece on our hands. Is it a masterpiece? Well, that's up to you. Unwound was the first band signed to Kill Rock Stars and has continued to impress us more and more on every album over the last decade. We're huge fans, pretty much the same way everybody else is after they've seen or heard Unwound. If you're just getting to know Unwound, or haven't heard every last one of their tour stories while sitting around the koricky table, please read the following two interviews with Justin Trosper and Sara Lund. A little history never hurt anybody...

Interview with Justin Trosper

Q: When and how did you meet Vern? Sara?
JT: I met Vern in about third grade on the baseball team. Sara I met (I think) new years 1990, but I didn't know she was a drummer or anything.

Q: Did you know when Giant Henry stopped playing that there would be another band right away?
JT:Yeah, that was kind of the idea. A couple of the early songs were Giant Henry songs or variations of.

Q: What was your impetus to start Unwound? Did you think of it as a band that would get you out of Olympia or out on national tour or did you just think of it only as a conduit for your music?
JT: Well, touring was a goal. However, I think we just wanted to start a good punk rock band with a lot of energy but also very musical. Since we were still teenagers I think we had a lot more to prove to our peers and the older people in the rock scene.

Q: When you first went into the studio - was it intimidating? At which stage in the band's recording career did you start assisting with the production and engineering?
JT: We always had creative input in the production (we started 4-tracking before we ever went to a studio) so we had a vague idea of the process early on. But we didn't really do engineering until we built the studio (MagRecOne). Most of the time, if we had an idea we would try to describe it to Fisk and he would figure out how to articulate it musically.

Q: Name one thing that Steve Fisk did that helped you out in the studio. (Ha! You thought that question would be, "Name one thing, or several, that Steve Fisk did that drove you nuts!")
JT: The main thing I learned from Fisk is really how to listen to songs. Like, "That part needs louder more articulate vocals because the guitar isn't really doing anything" or "Don't put that fucking maraca there, it sounds stupid", picking out the essentials of a song and focusing on them. Technically, he could jibber jabber at me for hours and I still don't know what the fuck he was talking about. I learned more from his intuitive side but am still fascinated by his thesaurus-like brainology.

Q: What year was the first national Unwound tour? Any good stories about insane shows or those delightful sleeping accommodations where the band gets to sleep in the same room as the cat box?
JT: The first national tour was in the fall of 91. Maybe the most weirdest show was in Naperville, Ill (next to Aurora, home of Wayne's World). I knew from setting it up that it was potentially dodgy from the slurred rambling phone interactions I had. We met the guy who set up the show (I cant even use the term "promoter" loosely here) at a convenience store parking lot so they could get some beer, then proceeded to the place of the show ("venue"), which was a rambler-style house in a cul-de-sac. So far everything is fine. Then we loaded the equipment into the basement which was a smelly carpeted disgusting punk rock hovel. We began to worry that no one would come after the guy started to call his friends to tell them about the show. He was pretty sure some of them were coming, but if not, it would be cool to just jam out and drink beer. Immediately I began to think of anybody I might know in Chicago that could save us. I asked if I could use the phone and ventured upstairs to a chorus of yapping vicious chihuahuas and his strung out pregnant sister. I couldn't get a hold of anyone. We gathered downstairs on one couch while the guy and a couple of his friends sat on another. He warned us "Oh yeah, probably don't sit there cuz that's where Dougie puked." Then added, "Do you guys want a bong hit?" I couldn't decide if it was scarier to stay in the basement or go back upstairs to use the phone. His band was called Pen and they were set to play first. I don't recall what they sounded like but could confidently guess that it fell under the category of "shit-punk." Although we knew they wouldn't care for us much we also sensed that they would be polite enough to not beat us up afterwards so we played our hearts out. We really won them over after playing Flipper and Black Flag covers. They bought tons of merchandise and we probably made more money there than some of the other shows even though there were only four or five guys in attendance. I finally got a hold of somebody in Chicago so that we could go stay somewhere other than Naperville. I think they were a little lonely, "Are you sure you don't want to stay here? There's plenty of room here in the basement, and I can fix you some SHIT up in the morning!"

Q: Best show ever? Worst show ever? (This isn't for posterity. Perhaps a better way to phrase this would be to ask you describe two memorable shows. One that you would play again, one that you wouldn't.)
JT: The problem is some of the worst shows are kind of the best(like Naperville), but the actual worst shows aren't very memorable, like a depressing night with chronic equipment failure and bad audience response, and there has been a fair share of those. High points were opening for Fugazi, although some of those were crappy too. I think playing with Sonic Youth and Stereolab in Europe was a nice chunk of time, spirits were high and we were playing consistent. Also I would say the first national tour with Sara when we had Dustin as a roadie was a great period, lots of fucked up shows; Taco Bell breakfast lunch dinner, dog poop floors, cold medicine and fortys. Sounds great!

Q: Every Unwound record has been, in a way, a turning point for the band. When does that stylistic vision occur - during the songwriting period or during recording? Can you name any of the techniques or ideas or even records by other people that have inspired new directions for the band?
JT: The songs all start out pretty organic and then when we put them on tape that's when things start to happen. On the earlier records it was like, let's put it on tape and fill it up a little - make it sound live. Later on, our musical horizons expanded greatly and also our confidence in our abilities was higher, so I think we felt like we could do other things and get away with it, without sounding stupid. I think on the latest record we have fully realized that. We had a lot more time to think concepts over, listen to the songs more intently and also test out ideas, some of which didn't work out. I've always been inspired by the late 60s psych recording (even early on) but I don't think we really got to touch on that stuff until now (a little on 'challenge'). I also wanted to work harder on vocals, try some harmonies etc. When we started mixing it, I felt like we could make a pretty modern version of a 67/68 era record without really sounding like one of those bands. Also I was really inspired by the 'Berlin' era of Eno/Bowie. And as usual, Metal box/second edition PIL, even though it doesn't really sound anything like it.

Q: Describe the process or idea that led you to purchase a home studio and record Leaves Turn Inside You there. What were the major differences between recording at home and in a studio?
JT: It was a long process - two years. We actually built two studios because we moved houses. Basically we decided we needed to change the recording process, and I didn't think just working with another producer would do the job, especially since I cant really think of anybody who would do more justice to an Unwound record than Fisk. Also we decided since we have other projects, it just made sense to start doing this by ourselves (keep the means of production in your own hands!) But to make this record in a normal studio we would have had to do some pre-recording at home anyway, since there is so much going on. There's advantages to both, I certainly do like recording in bigger budget studios (quality and convenience), but having all the time to conceptualize things at home outweighs it slightly.

Interview with Sara Lund

Q: Why did you come out to Olympia?
SL: I first came out to Olympia in 1985 with my dad. I attended 8th and 9th grade in Oly, hated the school system, and moved back to Bloomington to finish high school. After high school, and after hanging around Bloomington for a year, going crazy, I decided to come visit my dad for awhile and check out the IPU [International Pop Underground] convention [Olympia, August 1991]. Actually, it was kind of an impulsive decision. I bought my train ticket on a whim on Thursday and left on Sunday. When I arrived in Oly, the IPU convention was just starting. I realized after being in Oly for a short time, that there was no reason for me to return to Bloomington and there seemed to be some exciting stuff happening in the world of music, and my dad was pressuring me to start college, so I applied to Evergreen, and stayed.

Q: When was the first time you met Justin and Vern?
SL:the first time I met Justin was New Years Eve, 1991. I was in Oly for my dad's wedding and Christmas and had hooked up with some old friends from when I lived here in high school (Aaron Olsen and Christina Calle). They invited me to come to Seattle with them to see their friends, Giant Henry, play. Well, we got to the show and they (the band) had torn down the note that had been posted telling people that the show had been moved. So we drove around Seattle for a few hours (Brent Turner, Allison Wolfe, and Molly Neuman were also in the car - and actually some people say Bratmobile may have formed that night when Molly and Allison, in a drunken spazzfest, jumped out of the car, jumped on top of the car, and started singing and banging away) then gave up. Justin and Brandt later showed up at Aaron and Christina's new apartment in Seattle where we were all hanging out. I ended up sort of befriending Brandt that night, and starting hanging out with him when I finally moved to Oly later that year. I re-met Justin when I saw Unwound play at the IPU convention. And to be honest, I have no idea when the first time I actually met Vern was. I kind of think it may have been the first time we played together. I don't think we had even spoken to each other before then.

Q: Who asked you to join the band? And what was your initial reaction,"Yes!" or "I'd better think about this..."?
SL: Well, I had been playing with Witchy Poo. I had been invited to play with them originally to do this Black Sabbath cover night thing and someone like Tinuviel or Sue had told Slim, "You know Sara's the heaviest drummer in town" and I think that was the line of thinking when I was asked to try playing with Unwound. I was friends with Brandt, and he actually pulled me aside the night he quit Unwound to tell me about it. I remember sitting on the curb by the backstage at the Capitol Theater, listening to him tell me about quitting, and trying to suppress the potentially friend-betraying thoughts I was having about taking his place. I was a fan of the Brandt version of Unwound. The summer before I moved to Oly, I had been playing with these guys in Bloomington (Matt Whitaker of the Belgian Waffles- another band I was in - and Sean McCloud of the N.ids). We called ourselves Moe, and I think we were coming from a similar place, musically - although with a more mid western twist to it (Jesus Lizard and Scratch Acid, as opposed to Nirvana and Melvins). Oh yeah, so actually I think it was Sue Fox and Slim's idea to get me to play with Unwound. I don't remember even talking to Justin and Vern about it until I was there jamming with them. It was some kind tryout thing -not an audition, but just a jam to see if it would work. I remember thinking right away that it was magic, though I don't know if they felt the same way. I think it may have been a little weirder for them, me being a girl, and not from Tumwater. After "the jam", Justin called me and we talked about it for awhile, and I accepted the offer with great enthusiasm.

Q: When you recorded with Unwound for the first time, was it the first time you were ever in a recording studio? Were you intimated by the process at all?
SL: Recording with Unwound was not my first recording experience, and in fact it wasn't even my first with Steve Fisk at Avast. I had been in there with Witchy Poo earlier that year (or maybe the year before.) I had also recorded with a few bands I was in Bloomington, although none of that had ever been released. My first band, The Fixations (an all-girl pop trio) had recorded in the guitar player for Mellencamp's home studio! The Belgian Waffles had recorded in some basement in Muncie, and Moe had recorded in some basement in Fort Wayne or Terre Haute or something, both on 8 tracks. But recording with Unwound for the first time was a little weird. I mean, we were in there recording a record only a few months after I had joined the band. I still didn't know Justin or vern very well and was a little intimidated. I remember that I messed up a lot and I didn't tell them so we wouldn't have to keep playing stuff over and over again. Unfortunately, that means I can't listen to Fake Train at all because there are so many fuck-ups. Plus, I was really sick during mixing and slept through most of it. Which also meant that there was reverb on the drums in spots I never would have allowed for, had I been alert. As far as figuring something out to make it easier, that's really just come with time. I've gotten more comfortable with the whole idea and with expressing my opinion, not to mention just having a clearer idea about how I want things to sound. Plus, with each record, there was more time to spend working on things. With Fake Train, we were in and out in 2 weekends - and that's recording AND mixing. I can't even fathom that anymore. Especially not after having spent the better part of a year making this one!

Q: What is one thing that Steve Fisk did that helped you out in the studio?
SL: I guess the most helpful thing about Steve, was how supportive he was. I mean, he's a cranky old coot, but he was so enthusiastic about our music and really good about encouraging us to try outlandish, new things. Definitely not the stereotypical, stodgy, conservative producer who's always trying to get the band to come back down to earth. (Wait, does that stereotype exist?). He was always dragging out these crazy toys for us to play with and almost never shot an idea down. Anything was worth a try.

Q: What year was the first national Unwound tour? Any good stories?
SL: The first national Unwound tour was actually with Brandt, when they made some tapes and t-shirts and drove to the east coast. but the first for reals one, one where we were gone for 2 months and played all over the place, that would have been the summer of '93, after Fake Train. We had these ridiculous t-shirts. Oh my God. Vern's uncle had been involved with some festival and there were tons of leftover shirts from that, all sizes and colors, and there was some picture of a dude with a mustache on a motorcycle or something - like really bad computer drawn style. Tinuviel presented us with this insane silkscreen she had designed for us that was some kind of swirly thing with bunny rabbits and I don't know what. So we just bought some ink, turned the festival shirts inside out, and screened all those bad boys on somebody's front lawn, anytime we ran low. I remember totally taking over these rock climber kids in Rapid City's house and lawn to print these bizarre things. I think just about every show on that tour was insane. I really wish I'd been the type to keep a journal, because it would have made a good book. Dirty was with us, so the shenanigans never stopped. We bought these fucked up plastic masks, like the ones that are just clear faces, really scary, in New Orleans and took our picture with a street mime. The boys bought velour sweat suits and we played in Ft. Worth to nobody in velour sweatsuits and plastic masks. Oh wait, I think that was on the 2nd big tour, when Jared came with us, too. They all blend together. Lets see... sleeping on cardboard in a squat in Oslo, after the cops in riot gear raided the show, breaking up all 6 (including the other band) of the audience members. Um, waking up next to some dogshit right by my face on the dirty wood floor in memphis...lots of driving all night and pulling up in front of the venue, the only address we had, at 5 or 6 in the morning and just sleeping in the van. We broke down on the NJ turnpike (Braniac drove past us, they told us when we met them a year later) got towed to Perth Amboy, got Mike Simonetti to come pick us up in little car and drive to our show in NYC where there were around 6 people in attendance - all our friends. He took us back to the van, we slept in the parking lot of the mechanic, woke up to realize half the day had gone and the guy hadn't opened, got towed to another mechanic and spent the day wandering around the beautiful town of Perth Amboy (I got a nice shirt at a thrift store, I still have it).

Q: Can you name any of the techniques or ideas or even records by other people that have inspired new directions for the band?
SL: I really don't think of our "directions" as being anything so deliberate. I feel like we just write these songs out of thin air... I guess the cohesion becomes obvious while recording. Then you are forced to think about each song, individually, and then also in relation to all the others. I guess that also happens when you're making a set list, but not to such an extent. I don't know that all 3 of us have ever been inspired by the same thing at the same time. We're all pretty different and tend to get obsessed by different things at different times. I guess there are times when the Beatles get played more than anything else. Or Bartok, or the Frogs, or the Who Sell Out, or Kraftwerk, or Mission of Burma (when Dirty was the roadie), or Burzum, or Tim Buckley, or some dub tape that Calvin made us years ago, or some funk tape that Simonetti made us years ago... These are all van tapes I'm thinking of. that's really the only time we all have to listen to the same music. Even though I love reading about other people's influences, I hate talking about mine to the press, because I'm always listening to new and different stuff and I'm always being influenced by new and different stuff, and besides, it just gives people an excuse to read obvious comparisons into things. "When I was in high school, I really liked Sonic Youth and Fugazi. When I grew up, I started a band that sounded like a cross between Sonic Youth and Fugazi" zzzzzzzzz Know what I mean?