God's Word Fellowship / A True Church / Darwin Fish - Archive 12-01-2002

FACTNet Message Board: Religious Cults and Sects: God's Word Fellowship / A True Church / Darwin Fish: God's Word Fellowship / A True Church / Darwin Fish - Archive 12-01-2002
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Rita Bryant

Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 02:11 pm
There is very little information on this group called "A True Church". The pastor is Darwin Fish and they are located outside of Bakersfield, California. There is a huge concern in our minds that this group is advocating physical discipline of children as young as 7 months old. We have a family member who is involved with this small group and this incident with the child just happened last night. Does anyone have info that could help? We have read this group's website and are sure they have cultic attitudes.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 10:34 pm
DARWIN FISH regularly labels well-known Christian leaders "false teachers" and publishes diatribes against them. He emblazons a long list of men he despises on practically everything he touches—his Web site, his car, and even his followers. Darwin clearly does not believe anyone but Darwin Fish is faithfully teaching the truth of God's Word.

In one of his early replies to this FAQ, Darwin claimed that is "simply a bold-faced lie." But Darwin's own FAQ now concedes the point. He admits he cannot name one other Christian leader outside his own little band of followers—anyone who has lived in the two millennia between the death of the last apostle and the advent of Darwin Fish—who has remained faithful to the truth.

Darwin is apparently in the process of changing the name of his group from "God's Word Fellowship" to "a true church"—employing the indefinite pronoun to obscure a disturbing fact: Darwin and his followers cannot identify any other "true church"—not a single one—in nineteen hundred years of church history! (Well, there may have been "a church in Murfreesboro, TN, but that has since dissolved.") As far as the Fishites know, the light of truth has been utterly obscured in Christendom ever since the apostles died off, until the sun finally dawned again on their leader—Darwin Fish.

Darwin was not always such a strict loner. At one point Darwin was a follower of Rick Miesel, a similarly-obsessed exposer of well-known evangelicals. But the two of them split over the question of whether Martin and Deidre Bobgan are hell-bound heretics. (Fish said yes; Miesel balked. So Fish now declares Miesel a false teacher, too.)

The rest of the article is at http://www.gty.org/~phil/articles/dfishfaq.htm

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Anonymous

Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 10:38 pm
What is the Agenda of GWF?
(A Reply To Darwin's Article titled "Identifying False Teachers")

The "ministry" trademark of Darwin Fish and GWF is condemning who they believe to be "false teachers" and "false Christian movements". Their most common approach is through picketing at churches and evangelical events, which they do very pridefully and self righteously (if you've ever witnessed it, you would know what I mean). Don't get me wrong, I am not against exposing false teachers and protesting against them, but you better be right about the teacher being false, and you better have some back up to the cause, which they fall short. There arguments against those they hate are generally petty and often not doctrinal. Their other common approach to condemning other teachers is through a series of articles on their own website. Through these avenues, Darwin protests every teacher he is aware of including teachers of past generations as well as the present. The list of teachers that Darwin and GWF hates is so long that even they can't get every teacher and movement that they despise on there own website. In general, name any teacher living between the apostolic times until now (other than Darwin Fish) and they will label him a "wolf damned to hell". The only teacher Darwin and GWF members will endorse is Darwin Fish. This is clear in context of a statement by Al Soto (the oldest of Darwin's Followers and maintainer of the GWF Website). Al stated, "But it is admitted and well understood (as of this date) that Darwin has not found any other like minded "pastor". This has been to his great disappointment and sorrow "(see Reply To Jeff Simmons, GWF website).

With such an exclusive claim, one must ask, what is it that defines (By Darwin's standards) someone as a false teacher? And, if Darwin is the only one, what does he know that others don't?

On there article titled "Identifying False Teachers", Darwin lists seven "characteristics" that define someone as a "false teacher" (at least by his standards). We will use the text of this article to examine their article. (From here forward every quote (on this article) by Darwin or members of GWF will be taken from "Identifying False teachers" on the GWF website unless otherwise noted.)

These Characteristics are

1) Popularity

2) Silence (about false teachers)

3) Covetousness

4) Traditions

5) Worldly Wisdom

6) Lewdness

7) False Teachings (false doctrine)

Darwin believes that if you are guilty of just ONE of these you are a false teacher and hell bound. To be honest with you, I can't think of one teacher myself who doesn't have at least one of these "characteristics" (including the apostles, at least on #1). The fact is, Darwin is no exception. He is guilty of FOUR of these seven which I will explain throughout this article:

You can read the rest at http://www.whatisgwf.com/agenda.html

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NoDeceit

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 02:29 am
To hear from the source please visit a true church at
http://www.atruechurch.info/

or call 800-HOW-TRUE

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Rita Bryant

Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 04:37 pm
I have heard from the source...my son. He was snagged by this group, (he was only 19) and has since abandoned his wife and baby for the sake of "truth". Darwin Fish's truth, that is. Yes, I have been to this website, read everything on it, plus I've had the "privilege" to listen to a handful of tapes. This group has a mean, hateful attitude and I've heard from my son that they all are quite proud of that fact. During my research into this group, I've made contact with former members and some of their family. They all affirm the observations I've had. This group is extremely judgemental and seem to rejoice in the fact that one day they will get to see the unsaved burning in hell. They will be able to see their families in utter torture and they will laugh. This group serves a hate-filled god. Because man will treat others like the god they serve, they thrive on hateful attitudes and send most of the world to hell. Since my son joined this group, he has put everyone of his family, everyone of his friends, and everyone that knows anyone....in hell. It's so amazing to me that in this world, in this state, in this city...no one knows the truth except this group. My son practices what he calls being "cunning as a serpent". This is being deceitful without actually telling a lie. I've witnessed this vile behavior a few times; his wife didn't know when to believe him. Because his wife has refused to go with him to this group, he has been able to justify leaving her. She has been called by him and by other men in this group names like; evil, wicked, whore, hater of God, hater of truth...My son has informed me that one of many reasons why I'm going to hell is because I teach young children about God and the bible. He shoots scripture at you like bullets; he's getting better at that technique. Guess they give him alot of practice. I/we love our son very much. We realize he is being fooled and we know he truly desires to follow real truth. This isn't it. Let this serve as a warning to anyone who may come across this group. Do not try and engage them in a debate about God or His Word. They live for the "hunt and kill" and go back with joyous stories of the events. Another notch in their belts! They delight in the attention they receive when they wave their signs, inform people passing by that they are on the way to hell, when security tries to have them move and they can throw up the "free speach" mantra, when the police tell them to stay on the sidewalk... you get the picture. We are saddened by this situation but we know that God is doing His work and we can rest in His promise that NOthing can separate us from the love of God.

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Casey Bryant

Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 01:19 am
This is the son. Like most people in this deceived world my mother (Rita Bryant) and father (Mike Bryant) have fallen for the lie that the bible is not true, exemplified by the fact that they refuse to submit to God and His word. Although they claim to be "Christian" they are caught in the snare of the devil (1 John 5:19) and cannot see the Truth, for God has blinded their eyes.
John 12:37-40.
But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:
"Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them."
The Lord commands to judge with righteous judgment,
John 7:24
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
Also true believers WILL rejoice in the destruction of the wicked,
Ps.58:10
"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."
My goal is to just touch on some of the lies that my mother has proclaimed about the truth. There are others in her writing, but I will cover those for anyone interested. Send to me at caseyb@atruechurch.info.
Therefore you should see that they (my mother and father)do not believe or abide in the doctrine of Christ, the Bible, and according to 2 John 9 they don't have God.
If you read our site and match it with the bible you should see the truth and the love of God.
People, do not be as so many on their way to hell.
Abide in His Word, keep His commands, fear the Lord and live forever.

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No Deceit

Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 02:13 am
She talks about love, but both her and her hubsand have refused to sit down with their son and show him where he was wrong. He begged his parents to correct them, and they refused. Is this love? True love corrects, rebukes etc (Proverbs 27:5-6, 2 Tim 2:24).

It is also a lie that he has left his wife. His wife is unwilling to live with him, and Scripture calls us to peace and so we give them what they want. God hates divorce. Casey did not make it a condition for her to come to our church, in fact we would not want her to be there unless of course she repented and took heed to the truth. The truth is she refused to move to Bakersfield with him. Why? Because she is stubborn and refuses to submit to her husband as Scripture calls her to.

On Hate: God hates, and we hate the same things God does. We hate the ungoldy and love them as well. We hate in a godly manner as Christ commands us to do (Luke 14:26). We hate as David hated:

"Do I not HATE them, O Lord, who HATE You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I HATE them with PERFECT HATRED; I count them my enemies."
Psalm 139:21-22

Do I hate Casey's parents. Yes, because they hate God and they hate God's truth. Do I love them, yes, as my enemies and would hope for their salvation. Does this OFFEND you? No doubt it will, because Christ is called the Rock of offense and His truth offends. No appologies to be made.

We have never said we are the only church with the truth. Please Mam, quote this for us. If you can't it is called slander.

She tells you not to debate with us about the Bible. This is ungodly advice, the Bible teaches us to cast down every argument (2 Cor 10:3-6), and correct those who are in opposition (2 Tim 2:24f). Why? Because of love. She has no love. No love for us, nor for her child. She is the one who hates, hates in an ungodly manner, hatred that will send her to hell.

Yes we rejoice in the work of God-even His work of sending people to hell. His judgement is just, and we rejoice in His judgment. And we weep for the lost.

In His love,

al soto

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GuestAce

Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:14 am
Two points...

Both of them have to do with the general attitude of the poster - Casey Bryant.

It is absolutely true that the man is the head of the house has Christ is the head of the church. It is a wonderful truth that places the members of the Body of Christ in proper proportion and relation to one another. But one thing that goes along with that is that the husband is to lay down his life for his wife, as Christ did for the church. The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit. This is NOT Christ-like and claiming "I am right and you are wrong" and going on crusades are more of the same unChristlike behaviour.

That leads to my second point. I would be VERY careful about how you speak of casting down every argument. Paul speaks about casting down THOUGHTS AND IMAGINATIONS that exalt themselves against the knowledge of Christ. He is talking about everything within a man that rises up in contrast to Christ. These refer to self-discipline, not seeking false-teachers. The fact that you have taken this to yourself and applied it to seeking out false teachers has the very implication that you are the true teachers. An attitude which is arrogant in its fleshliness.

Finally, your focus on judgment is VERY troubling:

" For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Hebrews 10:26,27

The mother appears to be truly concerned, whatever her mistakes in childrearing may have been. The son needs to forgive, not add to sins.

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No Deceit

Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:26 pm
Ephesians 5
11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Romans 16
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[1] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

I believe the above verses state plainly how we are to deal with false teachers and false teaching. I hope the writer of the last post is not propagating that we stick our head in the sand and allow the false teachers to do as they please.

Question: What does Hebrews 10:26-17 have to do with "being judgmental"?

You state, "The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit."

Sir/Mam you have passed judgment upon this situation without having heard both sides of the story, without asking the husband for his view. This is folly for you.

Proverbs 18
13He who answers a matter before he hears it,
It is folly and shame to him.

You have slandered a godly man. You do not know how he has loved his wife, how for months he has dealt with her in a understanding manner and how his wife agreed to move with him and at the last minute on moving day stiffened her neck and refused to go along. Why? Because he is a jerk, and overbearing? No, because she hates the truth the light and the people of light. Casey does not wish for his prayers to be hindered so he takes this situation very seriously.

1 Peter 3
7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered

His wife attested that Casey has lived the above verses out. But you know, it does not matter what I say, why don't you ask him yourself.

You state:
"The mother appears to be truly concerned, whatever her mistakes in childrearing may have been. The son needs to forgive, not add to sins."

His son has nothing to forgive (it's been done), it is God whose forgivness she needs to ask for.

In His love,

al soto

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GuestAce

Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:28 pm
You are using verses that speak of exposing those who lead others astray, not of a husband and wife situation, nor of a son's relationship to his parents. After all, causing divisions often requires two sides.

Casey Bryant has cast allegations at his mother, but not backed them up, only saying she denies the bible. Heaping judgement on her, as well as himself. It is evidence of a seared conscience. Another characteristic of both yours and his posts is that they carry a spirit of 'we are right, you are wrong' - one which the letter of the post denies, but (as I said) the spirit upholds. You (both) have avoided specifics, but voiced generalities which cast aspursions on Casey's mother.

As regarding the so-called slander, you will notice I worded that very carefully. Only one who was looking for someone to clash with would have read that as slander. I was referring to the typical situation. Yes, a generalization, but all that was said strongly indicates that there is little difference here. Can you show how this to be untrue? Both yours and Casey's posts indicate a desire to be persecuted. Show me I'm wrong. Show others that they are wrong.

Finally, regarding the verse in Hebrews, those who are inclined to judgement are that way, most often because they themselves have heaped to themselves judgement. Have you ever heard that the one who preaches loudest against X is either most guilty of X or pre-disposed to X. The more judgement one metes out, the more judgement that one is under. The old mote and log in various eyes.

Don't forget that the letter kills - only the spirit gives life. And the spirit of both your posts is not life-giving. Have you not heard that to believers is given the message of reconciliation? This is not a spirit of reconciliation I am seeing.

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No Deceit

Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:50 pm
"The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit."

Sir, your statement above would indicate you passed judgment upon us. If this is not what you meant, then you could clarify this instead of accusing us of sin. I believe you language is clear, but I will give you the benifit of the doubt.

"Only one who was looking for someone to clash with would have read that as slander."

Are you willing to stand on that statement as gospel truth, or perhaps could it be that you are the one who did not make himself clear?

We do believe we are right, because we are following the right way, the right MAN (Jesus Christ) and God. If you condemn this attidude you then condmen the writer of 1 John:

1 John 4
6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Your argument in one built upon sand and not the rock that Christ is. Our confidance is in Him and we fight for the faith from that perspective. Does that mean we are not open to correction, on the contrary, we are alway desiring it. .. let the righteous strike me (Psalm 141:5)!

I take it you failed to see the order of the posts. Casey responded to slander from her mother and choose to deal with people on a one on one basis via email instead via this message board. You are missing the obvious. I fear for your soul, for your lack of discernment, that is a indication of not having the Spirit of truth (Romans 1:31)nor salvation.

Hebrews 10:26 was used out of context.

Yes, the letter kills, but no one on this board has been promoting the law, but we are contending for the faith.

Reconcilation: The door is always open for Casey's parents to call. The ball is in their court. Actually, Casey called his mother not too long ago and attempted to speak with her on these issues, she refused to do so. You can not get blood out of a turnip.

In His love,
al soto

PS. I would suggest you visit our web site to know what we believe http://www.atruechurch.info

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GuestAce

Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 10:09 am
Once, and finally, I said that the typical group was that way. I did not ever say that was the way your group was. However, based on the attitude evident in the post - defensive and focused on the fate of the wicked - I was certainly leaning towards the conclusion that this situation was no different. But not knowing, I can only say that I have known this type of group, and the attitude and situation fits it perfectly. The defensive response only serves to strengthen my hunch.

At the risk of being repetetive, your posts do not point to Christ, but focus more on you and on judgement. Begging your pardon, but that is right in line with Hebrews 10:26. A seared conscience either judges itself or it judges others. I have been to the church's site, and it is like many others I have seen. The main thrust of it is to show how other men have been wrong. There's nothing wrong with exposing lies. There was a church commended for it in Revelation. However, there is a difference between looking for error and determining it when it is met.

This site is no different because it revels in the error of other men. To that end, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Jesus addressed this when He spoke of dealing with the log in your own eye before seeing to remove the speck from your brother's eye. And once that log is removed from your own eye, it will be evident to others that this is the case in that your attitude towards those decieved/in sin will be markedly different. Instead, you proclaim only wrath and error and fear. There are some who require to be plucked from wrath by fear, but perfect love casts that out, it doesn't cause it. The sensationalistic nature of the site appeals to that side of man that LOVES gossip. Again... log and speck.

While I do not know you personally, I can say without hesitation, that the attitude that comes across in your posts will not draw men to Christ, only to you. You use songs and verses that were prophesied in great distress, by men who had longings that only the pure in heart can have. These longings were found in Paul as well, and the missionary to the gentiles said that he would rather be cut off/accursed than to see his fellow Jews be visited by the wrath of God. Never does he glory in the wrath that is coming. One who has been touched by Christ has a heart for His lost sheep, not a desire to see vengeance. Yet you stand ready to clash. Why? I stand by that contention. You seem more ready to condemn, to judge, to find fault and glory in the destruction of the wicked than you do to lead men to Christ.

Finally, as for the letter, it is more than just the Mosaic Law, but it is the reliance in things external. In the superficial. In the written word instead of the truth behind it.

Actually, there is one more thing. Why do I need to go to a website to know what YOU believe?

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No Deceit

Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:27 pm
John 7
24Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

1 Corinthians 5:
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

This is what God teaches, what you teach is, "A seared conscience either judges itself or it judges others."

Christ tells us to judge, with righteous judgment. You sir are against the word of God and are propagating lies.

Hebrews 10:26 is talking about someone who sins willfully after being "saved" and this person has a fearful expection judgment because of his rejection of the truth. It says nothing about someone who is judgmental. You sir, have added to the word of God. This is also sin.

Most of your statements are unsupported by Scripture. For example this statement:

"And once that log is removed from your own eye, it will be evident to others that this is the case in that your attitude towards those decieved/in sin will be markedly different."

Where does Christ say that this will be evident to others? He teaching us how to judge with rightoues judgment. Don't be a hypocrite and tell a drunkard to stop drinking if you are a drunkard yourself. Paul clarifies this point-

Romans 2:
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

This not saying that because we are all sinners we can never judge or that we must wait until we are perfect and sinless (although we have been perfected in Christ) No Christ commands us to judge without hypocrisy. Get your life in order, repent, turn to to Christ, walk in the Spirit, have a lifestyle of righteousness and then you can judge righteoussly by the Word of God (1 John 3:4f, 1 Cor 5:1f, Eph 5:11, John 7:23, 1 Cor 2:15).

You state:

"Never does he glory in the wrath that is coming. One who has been touched by Christ has a heart for His lost sheep, not a desire to see vengeance."

When did we ever state we want God's sheep to perish? I think you are putting this in the context of all man kind and in that context Paul stated this:

1 Corinthians 16
22If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!"

In other words let them go to hell. Yes, we weep for the lost, but for the righteous there is also a desire for vengance and justice and yes we loook forward to the Day of the Lord, the Day of Wrath

Revelation 6
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

and David prayed for specifically for vengance:

Psalm 55
14We took sweet counsel together, And walked to the house of God in the throng. 15Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell, For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them. 16As for me, I will call upon God, And the LORD shall save me.

You sir, are bring another gospel and you are to be accurssed! Repent from the lies you are bringing.

This statement, "Finally, as for the letter, it is more than just the Mosaic Law, but it is the reliance in things external. In the superficial. In the written word instead of the truth behind it." Is also a lie and upsupported. The written word of God is alive, pure and good and you will give account to it (Heb 4:12).

Let me also add, that the men we have exposed are not sheep of God but wicked men made to be caught and destoryed, just like any brute beast (2 Peter 2:12).

In His love,
al soto

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Anonymous

Friday, September 06, 2002 - 04:22 pm
Al Soto don't spend so much time judging
other people. You and your group are not the only people on this earth that knows the truth. The way you judge others will be the same way you will be judged. Christ died for all of us not just you. Try spending a little more time loving people and telling them about Christ's love.
The next time you judge someone,remember
you are a sinner too.

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No Deceit

Friday, September 06, 2002 - 05:54 pm
"Anonymous" (Are you walking in darkness is that why you don't tell us who you are?) do you know that cowards will not inherit the kingdom of God?

As to judging that was already addressed in my last post.

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 03:45 am
No I am not walking in darkness. Get off of it Soto. There are alot of crazies online. I could make up a fake name but I choose not to put any name on my posts.
And as for your comment about cowards will not inherit the kingdom of God, what bible did you find that in? It's certainly not in mine.

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No Deceit

Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 12:07 pm
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

al soto
Those who love the truth can call me at "home" 661-822-1222

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GuestAce

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 - 05:07 pm
No Deceit...

From the first, without exception, your posts have all been judgements. Your focus IS on destruction. I don't know what you have done, but since all anyone here has seen is your looking for judgement, do you expect to draw others to Christ? I know the context of that verse, what you have said about it is not untrue. However, a conscience that is seared ALSO looks for judgements for others because of the judgement it heaps upon itself. The apostles were given a ministry of reconciliation. Not condemnation.

You can quote the bible all you want. Jack Van Impe does it very well. But Christ's main judgement has nothing to do with that OR with what we have done for Him. It is all wrapped up in one thing - do we know Him. Being 'saved' (as many popularly call it) doesn't mean you know Him. Recognizing evil doesn't mean you know Him. Knowing Him is something that is evident in a man's life by the way He treats the brethren in Christ. And as His life grows in us, replacing the 'I', we become like Him and begin to see Him as we recognize Him and come to know Him. We begin to walk by faith.

This thing is unmistakeable in one who truly knows Christ. It doesn't seem evident in your posts. Knowing scripture doesn't even prove we know Him. Read Luke 24.

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No Deceit

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 03:26 pm
I agree, having a knowledge of Scripture does not prove salvation, but believing in false doctrine without repetance does prove one does not know Christ (2 John 9).

"However, a conscience that is seared ALSO looks for judgements for others because of the judgement it heaps upon itself"

Support this will Scripture.

"The apostles were given a ministry of reconciliation. Not condemnation"

Amen. Who is condeming?

"Being 'saved' (as many popularly call it) doesn't mean you know Him. Recognizing evil doesn't mean you know Him. Knowing Him is something that is evident in a man's life by the way He treats the brethren in Christ."

Support this. Being "saved" does mean you know Him. 2nd statement, no problem and third statement is partly true. One way of knowing Him is how we love the brethren, but not the only way as you seem to indicate. So you will need to clarify that.

Guest Ace, what is the point of the matter, come out and say it. Are you saying that I and those of our church know God or not. If we do not, why? Are we truly Christians? Are we in error? Let's speak plain and then we can contend for the faith.

By the way, what is your name and what church do you go to?

In His love,
al soto

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No Deceit

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 03:30 pm
Yes, all my posts are based upon judgment, righteous judgement. Unless you can show otherwise. You make it sound like I have done something wrong.

How have I been focused upon destruction? By exposing lies and deceit? You seem very twisted in your thinking.


al soto

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Anonymous

Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 09:24 pm
St. Patrick's Cathedral Sex Prank: Audio Excerpts. Shock jocks "Opie and Anthony"'s radio show was cancelled, and WNEW-FM's license endangered, when their "Sex for Sam" contest, in which participants had sex in public places, included the interior of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Is a church entitled to stronger law enforcement than other public places? (Audio courtesy of The Smoking Gun; RealPlayer required.)

http://www.foody.org/atheist.html

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 03:06 am
Guest Ace I wouldn't waste my time trying to reason with Soto. All he is going to do is quote scripture at you to try and prove his point. He used scripture to try and say I would go to hell because I didn't post my name here. The reason I don't post my name is because of lunatics like him.
I wonder if he forgot Satan can quote scripture too.

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No Deceit

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 12:48 pm
"All he is going to do is quote scripture at you to try and prove his point."

Praise God! Amazing. You blaspheme the way of truth.

Are you afraid of lunatics like me? Is name calling all you can do?

Sure Satan can quote Scripture but what did Christ do with that? He cast down His arguments with Scripture. You teach to do otherwise.

I fear for your soul. Please repent.

In His love,
al soto

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:43 pm
Oh please Soto. Don't fear for my soul. You had better worry about your own. You sound like you are the almighty himself.
You think you are always right all the time. You are not. You are very quick to pick out things and yell repent!!! Everything that has been said here is wrong in your mind. I am a bible believing Christian. I have excepted that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for my sins. If I didn't already believe in Christ I would run for my life. When people speak the way you do it turns people away from the church. Maybe you don't want anyone else in the church. Because that is the way you act. Yes you should tell the truth, but there is a way of speaking to people that will make them listen. You would turn anyone off. You seem to get prideful satisfaction when you can prove a point. Check your own heart Soto. I don't know you but I know this, You are not perfect. You sin also. If you say you don't sin then the truth is not in you. Do you enjoy saying repent, repent to someone. So quick to say repent, so quick to judge. Don't you think it would be better just to tell a person about Christ and leave the judging to him. You remind me of the Scribes and the Pharisees, people who had plenty of false pride.
When the woman that was caught in adultery was brought to Jesus. The Scribes and the Pharisees wanted Jesus to say by law she should be stoned. But being Jesus he said, John 8:7 He that is without sin, let him first cast a stone at her. That is one of my favorite verses. Why don't you meditate on that. I will not be reading or answering any more of your posts.

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No Deceit

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:06 pm
I'm sorry you hate correction.

Proverbs 12
1 Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge,
But he who hates correction is stupid.

Stupid people end up in hell.

In His love,

al soto

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Anonymous

Friday, September 13, 2002 - 06:06 pm
Al soto, you seem to be very limited in your perception of reality and of divinity. if you think that god threw a book from heaven only for you so that you would not need to think by yourself, you are sadly wrong, but it appears that no matter what other tell you, you will make up a response that will send everyone around you to hell if they do not agree a hundred percent with your understanding of religion and especially of the Bible. I don't believe you are a lunatic, perhaps you are a good person but you are certainly a fanatic, as blind as any other fanatic can be.

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:52 am
Amen to the above post.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Thank God for this.

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Guest Ace

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:57 am
There are many groups that claim to be right. But unless the witness of God's spirit accompanies them, unless they come in the power of the Spirit and not validated by the errors of others:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
...
Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth."
2 Corinthians 10:12,15-18

It works both ways. One can glory in another man's error, and THAT is what lifts him up. If we can commend ourselves with ourselves and amongst ourselves, then we are comparing men with men - our standing is based on other men. But if we are simply declaring truth, not tearing down or lifting up other men, then can we be commended of the Lord. Groups whose existence is formed on the basis of other men's errors (whether for or against those errors) measure themselves by themselves (by other men).

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:47 pm
Guest Ace I do agree with you. And I can accept it simply because not only are you using scripture but you are speaking in a non condemning manner. I do have a hard time with people speaking to me as if they wrote the bible themselves.
Next time it happens I'll remember what you said.

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Guest Ace

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:49 am
GuestAce

There is couple other important scriptures that we all do well to remember:

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit."
Romans 8:1

(that's in italics because the KJV translators evidently added it - it wasn't in the original greek manuscripts)

"And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."
I John 3:19-21

God is the only one who can reliably and honestly create condemnation in a heart. By His Holy Spirit He brings conviction. If man tries to do it on his own, it becomes man's work. God may do this through men, but only those who are obedient to Him on a daily basis (in a living relationship, not simply following old, dead letters) will find all their words powerful and effective. Not because they can quote scripture and know the bible, but because they are obedient to His every bidding and He works through their obedience. . We are only called to be obedient to Him. Seeking to know Him.

He will also use man's disobedience, (as the psalmist says, even the wrath of man will praise Him) but only the obedient will find all his works (which, by his obedience, are Christ's) effectual in the Lord's ends. That is why it is of the utmost importance to KNOW HIM. Without that, we are clanging cymbals.

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Rupert

Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:41 pm
Seems to me that everyone has made the fundamental mistake of taking this Darwin Fish guy seriously. Given that this site is about cults, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this Darwin Fish is a cult leader? I have to say that, while I don't know much about him, he must be a real jerk if he instructs his sidekicks to go around picking fights with people. And don't forget that this whole argument got going because some poor woman lost her son to these people. Let's not give these people another forum for their dyspeptic prattle.

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No Deceit

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:11 am
Romans 16
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[1] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Paul commands believers to point out and note those who are causing division contrary to Scripture. What Guest Ace is propagating is the opposite. Why is that? Because he is a hireling who runs when the wolf comes. He is the like watchmen that are rebuked in Isaiah for not sounding out the warnning.

Isaiah 56
9 All you beasts of the field, come to devour,
        All you beasts in the forest.
        10His watchmen are blind,
        They are all ignorant;
        They are all dumb dogs,
        They cannot bark;
        Sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
        11Yes, they are greedy dogs
        Which never have enough.
        And they are shepherds
        Who cannot understand;
        They all look to their own way,
        Every one for his own gain,

I warn you not to follow these dumb dogs who teach you to cover your eyes and ears from hearing the warnings, who tell you "don't wory, everything is OK". Who say," Groups whose existence is formed on the basis of other men's errors (whether for or against those errors) measure themselves by themselves (by other men)."

They are blind leaders, and you the followers will fall into the ditch with them. Beware, because God's warning has come upon you. You should rejoice when truth comes and yes TEARS down lies. When Satan quoted Scripture what did Christ do? He cast down the argument.

I am amazed that we are disputing over this point. But I guess I shouldn't be because this has been said before:
Isaiah 30
9That this is a rebellious people,
        Lying children,
        Children who will not hear the law of the LORD;
        10Who say to the seers, "Do not see,"
        And to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us right things;
        Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
        11Get out of the way,
        Turn aside from the path,
        Cause the Holy One of Israel
        To cease from before us."

Oh foolish people take heed to the truth and be zealous for His word.

In His love,
al soto

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:03 pm
so, "al soto", what should a person do if they are ashamed of their sinful ways and want to turn it all around?

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Guest Ace

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 02:25 pm
NoDeceit...

With Isaiah's prophecy I have no problem. With exposing lies I have no problem. What is apparent is the focus on the men and 'their' doctrines. It's the same spirit that goes along with calling a ministry "The Joe Smith Ministry" - the focus is the man. You take things men say (whether I agree with everything you espouse or not is not the point) and argue against them. Great. More power to you. But the scriptures say you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Only to the degree that you point others towards truth is the ministry beneficial. But taking things men teach and judging them on the spot is not the message of reconciliation. Speaking the truth in love is. Not condemning, but exposing the fallacies - that is, proclaiming the truth itself - bears fruit worth seeking. Judging men does not. The "True Church" does not discern between the two. Shall we condemn Paul as a liar and a heretic because he once believed Jesus was returning in his day? Yes, men preach untruths. Some (maybe many) lie. But when you judge a man along with his doctrine, you are yourself in danger of judgement.

My whole point to posting here was not to say what one doctrine is right and what is wrong. My point was to try and highlight the spirit of exposing men instead of contradicting falsehood. Christ has already done that. Heck, the law has already done that. Man is sinful - period. And when the light (the light of the truth, not the light of exposing other men, but exposing their errors) shines upon the darkness, it flees. Shall I judge the young man who left his wife? Doesn't the bible say that God hates divorce? Isn't the man to give his life for the woman as Christ gave His life for the church? The Law has only allowed divorce for adultery. Is divorce the fruits of a believer?

Those 'right things' Isaiah speaks of are not attacking men, but promoting the truth. Judging men and attacking untruth are NOT the same thing. Yes, Jesus cast down the ARGUMENT, not Satan (though I am sure He had the power so to do).

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:05 pm
This forum looks like a literary chat about the miraculous power of faith in bible script. I have decided to stop reading through the messages posted by such bible fundamentalists. It is all too disgusting and sick.

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Anonymous

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:25 am
To the above writer,
"This forum looks like a literary chat about the miraculous power of faith in bible script."
It looks that way because most of the people speaking here are Christians. And it is not at all sick. Christians do use scripture at times when trying to make a point. It is the Word of God.
Non Christians do not believe or understand this.

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Anonymous

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:37 am
Al Soto answer the question. What should a person do if they are ashamed of their sins? What should they do to make it right?

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No Deceit

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 01:18 pm
Guest Ace,

You are blind to the truth that is why you do not understand. Please take heed to what is being written. I fear for your soul.

Ephesians 5:
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of the Spirit[1] is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

This is the way of life for a true believer. Exposing lies and liars. That is true love.

Psalm 119
104Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.

Men such as Billy Graham area leading people to hell. Love would compell any believer to tell others of that danger. Only a hiriling would stay silent and let the sheep be devoured by the wolves (i.e false teachers).

2 Corinthians 5:
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. . .

A True Church and myself will continue to sound the alarm, to convince, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering, so that those who follow men like Graham, Dobson, Smith, MacArthur etc., flee and get saved.

2 Timothy 4:
1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[1] His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

This is a command, you Guest Ace have blasphemed the truth to teach againt it and blashphemed us for defending this way of truth.

The issue is this-you can not be saved and remain in a false religion or follow false teachers (John 10:5, 2 Tim 2:20-21). It is a matter of salvation, not a ministry bent that we have.

What should a person to if they are ashamed of their sins? If they are a true believer that person should be ashamed, but he should also believe that God is faithful able to forgive his sins, move on and leave the past in the past.

In His love,
al soto

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Anonymous

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:16 pm
I will call myself kate. The thing i am wondering is why this casey guy cant answer for himself.
A. Casey, how was your upbringing? Do you feel your Mother did a good job or bad job.
B. Did you Mom expose you to God and His Word, did you go to church?
C. Was your Mother abusive, an acholic, druggie, work too much, describe your Mother for us, we need to understand her point as well as Al Soto.
D. Do you think you are a strong spiritual person on your own or do you have to ask permission and ask what to answer to Al Soto?
E. What is your living arrangments like, is it like we see on jim jones movies or what.
F. Do you feel like you still love your Mother, or do you hate her, what relationship do you have with her.
This is something we all need to pray about. Kate

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Guest Ace

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 02:52 pm
No Deceit...

You still read but do not understand. You confuse powers and principalities with men. Yes, men lie. Yes, men are deceived. Yes, we are to turn men from their sin. But to warn men against other men as opposed to specific wrongs is not scriptural. We are not to follow other men, but only Christ. And for those who fall into error, we show them the error of their ways.

As an example -- Billy Graham. I don't support the Billy Graham Ministry. Ecumenism seems to be one of their goals. I don't agree with that on the one basis that unity can ONLY be found in Christ. And unity is only spiritual, not enforced (as the Tower of Babel shows). However, if the requirements for one to be 'saved' (according to scripture) are simply - confess with your mouth ... believe in your heart (Jesus Christ and His resurrection on both counts, that He is Lord), then if one does that because of or in spite of false teachers, then we should rejoice. But if our focus on men's errors, we may drive others away from some things those men (heaven forbid) have right. We are not following men, but God.

Remember Balaam? God's prophet, but against Him. Yet God still used Him to speak HIS TRUTH to Israel. A man focused on the man delivering the message would reject what he said out of hand. But because God was speaking through Him, the message was worthy though the man's spirit was not.

You seem ready to level charges of blasphemy without reading carefully.

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No Deceit

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 03:47 pm
What a horrifying reality, to think you will enter God's presence on the day of your death, but then, come to find out on that day, you were actually deceived, and you find yourself in hell. Such is, and will be, the terror of most who call themselves Christians today (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24; 2 Peter 2:2). They will find themselves weeping and gnashing their teeth (e.g. Matthew 8:12; 22:1-14; 25;14-30; Luke 13:28).

If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or John MacArthur, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on "Christian" TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ¹s sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).


I. The Broad Way

Jesus warned,

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. (Matthew 7:13)

The false teachers mentioned above, and the many like them (2 Timothy 4:3), all teach a broad theological road that supposedly leads to heaven (e.g. see some of our reports on these men). False teachers differ as to how broad this way is, but nonetheless, they all teach a broad way. As Charles Spurgeon put it,

What is the reason why there are so many [Christian] sects in the world? Surely it must be because we don¹t follow the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we followed the Word of God and the will of God in all things, we should be very much more alike than we are. I do not think that even then we should all run in the same groove, for the road to heaven may be sufficiently wide to have several different paths in it, and yet shall they all be in the same way and in the same road. (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 61, p. 514-515, Sept., 28, 1870, bold added)

Spurgeon lies and speaks the exact opposite of Christ when he says, "the road to heaven may be sufficiently wide to have several different paths in it." Spurgeon believed both Calvinists and Arminians were on this wide path to heaven (see our report Spurgeon, An Ecumenical False Teacher). Jesus says it's narrow. Spurgeon says it's wide. Such teaching is damning.

False teachers, like those mentioned above, teach that amongst saved Christians there is a wide spectrum of conflicting doctrines and this manifests itself as differing forms of Christianity (e.g., see our report on Chuck Smith, or note Chuck Colson's book, The Body, or C. S. Lewis' book, Mere Christianity). False teachers create this delusion by holding to some form of creed, creeds, essentials, fundamentals, or core belief that supposedly unifies all true believers. If one stays within the bounds of this central belief (often called "orthodox Christianity," or "historic Christianity," e.g. Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity In Crisis, p. 31, 43) then a person is considered to be in the truth. And, other doctrines that the Bible addresses are counted as peripheral issues (or "secondary" or "non-essential") and are perceived as matters that do not pertain to salvation (e.g. Hank Hanegraaff, ibid., p. 47). As the Catholic of old put it,

In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things, charity. (Augustine, quoted by Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity In Crisis, copyright 1993, p. 47)

Augustine's words well sum up the broad way (Matthew 7:13). They make room for many who do not see eye to eye regarding a myriad of Scriptural subjects. Thus, they create a wide theological path (as Spurgeon put it) that supposedly leads to heaven, but in reality leads to hell; because people are led to "not receive the love of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

With this "essentials" doctrine (or any mentality like it), the broad way (Matthew 7:13-14) breeds complacency like gangrene in the hearts of men and women. Since there are so many matters in the Scriptures that are considered not pertinent to salvation, trembling before the word of God is made obsolete (Psalm 119:120; Isaiah 66:2, 5; Philippians 2:12), and no one makes haste to keep His commandments (Psalm 119:60). No one makes haste to keep all His precepts (Psalm 119:128, 151). So, wisdom cries out,

How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. (Proverbs 1:22)

When "Christians" agree to disagree over what the Bible teaches, and only the "essential" matters matter (in regards to salvation), there resides an unbiblical simplicity in the mind and a deadly cancer (2 Timothy 2:16-17) in the hearts of such fools (false Christians) who learn to scorn and hate knowledge. Because, their perspective is, "Hey, it's not a matter of salvation." Therefore, their complacency will destroy them (Proverbs 1:32).

Contrary to any "essentials," Christ said,

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4)

Life is had "by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (i.e. Genesis to Revelation). It is trust in the word of God that saves, as James exhorts,

Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)

It is the word of God that saves (e.g. Luke 8:11-12). It is the word of God that must be believed (e.g. Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:3). If you are directed away from faith in the word of God, whatever the issue, this can lead to the destruction of your soul. Because, Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:3). If you do not believe God, it will be accounted to you as wickedness (Psalm 119:118; 1 John 5:10). Therefore, there are no Biblical issues we can agree to disagree upon, because Scripture warns and instructs,

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. (1 Timothy 6:3-5)

If anyone teaches anything other than holy writ and does not heed Scriptural correction ("teaches otherwise and does not consent" 1 Timothy 6:3), then we are instructed to withdraw and turn away from such a person (1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 3:5). This is the opposite of agreeing to disagree. It is rather, agreeing to leave and not fellowship with them. Because,

He who keeps instruction is in the way of life, but he who refuses correction goes astray. (Proverbs 10:17)

Those who go astray from the word of God, are not in the truth, and are not saved; and their words are words of deceit, as Psalm 119:118 declares,

You reject all those who stray from Your statutes, for their deceit is falsehood.

God rejects all those who stray from His word. It does not matter what the subject matter is. There is no salvation for any who heed not holy writ, as Psalm 119:21 proclaims,

You rebuke the proud, the cursed, who stray from Your commandments.

No matter who you are, you are cursed if you do not follow after God's word. Thus, it is eternally important to love correction, as Proverbs asserts,

For the commandment is a lamp, and the law a light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life. (Proverbs 6:23)

Cease listening to instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge. (Proverbs 19:27)

This is what the false Christian world has done. They have strayed from the words of knowledge (2 Timothy 4:3; 2 Peter 2:18), and followed after a broad path that leads to hell (Matthew 7:13-14). In opposition to a wide path, is the theologically narrow way that leads to life (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24). How narrow? In the very context in which Christ warned about the broad way (Matthew 7:13), He ended His sermon with this warning.

Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall. (Matthew 7:24-27)

In the context in which Jesus spoke these words (Matthew 5:3-7:23), He preached about contriteness, mourning, meekness, hunger, thirst, purity, peace, persecution, anger, divorce, adultery, oaths, love, giving, prayer, forgiveness, fasting, possessions, needs, worrying, judging, rebuking, seeking, false prophets, etc.. Do you see any "non-essentials" in there? Christ makes no distinction concerning any of the many matters He addressed in His sermon. For Him, it all matters eternally. Because, the Lord describes in a very picturesque way, life or death and heaven or hell for those who hear His words and either do them or do not do them. Christ placed an eternal importance upon all that He said, as Proverbs instructs,

My son, give attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart; for they are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. (Proverbs 4:20-22; see also Proverbs 8:35 & 16:22)

My son, let them not depart from your eyes, keep sound wisdom and discretion; so they will be life to your soul and grace to your neck. (Proverbs 3:21-22)

Revelation likewise affirms,

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

Those who keep God's word are those who have the right to the tree of life. In other words, they are the ones who will be granted salvation. The dividing line between those who are saved and those who are not is the Bible itself. If someone truly believes in the Scripture, they are believing in Christ, because Christ is the Scripture (John 1:1, 14; Galatians 3:8; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13); and they will obey Him, as John the Baptist said,

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. (John 3:36 NAS, see also 1 John 2:3-5).

Believing in Jesus is identical to believing in and obeying the Bible. 2 John likewise declares,

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. (2 John 9)

The doctrine of Christ is not only what He taught in Matthew 5:3-7:27, or all the red print in the gospels. The doctrine of Christ equals the entirety of Scripture (Psalm 119:160). Those who transgress and do not remain within the bound of holy writ, do not have God. They are not saved (2 John 9).

There are not many different kinds of true Christianity, as Spurgeon depicted with his "wide" road with "several different paths in it." There is only one kind of true Christianity, and it is the kind that keeps His word (1 John 2:5), all of it (Psalm 119:128, 160, Matthew 4:4). Scripture teaches that true believers believe the same on every single Biblical doctrine (1 John 4:6, for a more in-depth explanation, see The Unity Of The Saints). There is no agreeing to disagree, or essentials and non-essentials. The war is over the truth of the word of God (Genesis to Revelation), and true believers are in opposition to any and every error that would come against it (Psalm 119:104, 128). As Paul wrote,

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

Be warned. It only takes one lie to love and practice to keep you outside the kingdom of God.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15; see also Revelation 21:8)

False teachers, like those mentioned at the beginning of this article, encourage people not only to love and practice a lie (like the "essentials" lie), but rather many lies as they divert people's trust off of God's word and onto their own great sounding words of emptiness (2 Peter 2:18). The amazing part of this is, the false teachers, being deceived themselves (2 Timothy 3:13), have people thinking they are following the Bible, when in reality they are following the doctrines of men (Matthew 15:8-9), like the "essentials" lie which is a damning doctrine of men, nowhere taught in the Word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6).

Most people are either pagans, lost in some false religion, or false Christians caught on the broad way (Matthew 7:13-14; 2 Timothy 4:3). Most people have not even found the narrow way, the way of truth (2 Peter 2:2). Yet, Christ warns even those who have found the narrow way with these words:

Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:24)

Even among those who have actually found the narrow gate, many of them do not enter. Many go to perdition, as Peter writes,

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:17-18)

The righteous make it with difficulty (Matthew 7:14; Acts 14:22). It is not an easy path.

Therefore, if you follow the typical Christianity that prevails in the world today, or anything like it, if you are on this broad way, and you do not reject it (2 Timothy 3:5; Hebrews 12:14), you will lie down in torment (Isaiah 50:11; 66:24; Revelation 21:8); because you have not received "the love of the truth, that [you] might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10); and because,


II. Christ's Sheep Flee

Those who have received the love of the truth would not hang around such broad way "Christianity," because they would know the truth does matter, and in loving the truth they would "hate every false way" (Psalm 119:104, 128, 163), as Proverbs 8:13 says, "the fear of the Lord is to hate evil." False doctrine, on any Biblical matter, is evil (Proverbs 30:5-6).

Note how Jesus describes His sheep. He says they follow Him. They follow the truth (John 14:6).

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (John 10:27)

Earlier Jesus describes Himself and His sheep by saying,

And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. They will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5)

Jesus' sheep are those who are saved (John 10:27-28), and they are described as those who "will by no means follow a stranger." This "by no means" dictates that under no circumstances will Christ's sheep follow a stranger.

Who is a stranger? A stranger is anyone other than Christ whom the sheep do not know. The context of John 10:5 is false spiritual leaders (John 9:40-41), and a stranger is seen as equivalent to "thieves and robbers" (John 10:8). Christ's sheep hear neither strangers (John 10:5) nor thieves and robbers (John 10:8). Anyone who would speak so as to divert a person away from Christ would fit "a stranger," and this is what false teachers do. "They speak great swelling words of emptiness" (2 Peter 2:18), and bring people into the same bondage and corruption by which they themselves are held (Luke 6:39-40; 2 Peter 2:19).

Therefore, anyone following any of the men listed at the beginning of this article, or any like them, are not Christ's sheep. Because the Lord says, not only will they not follow them, but they "flee from him."

Christ's sheep do not hang out with false teachers and false churches. They flee from those who do not speak the truth ("strangers"). Whether it is a Catholic church, Mormon church, Jehovah's Witness Hall, Muslim mosque, or any of the myriad of churches on the broad way (like Grace Community in Panorama City, CA; or Lancaster Baptist in Lancaster, CA, etc.), Christ's sheep are not found counted in their ranks. The only ones who are found heeding such religion are the wicked, as Proverbs 17:4 declares,

An evildoer gives heed to false lips.

Evildoers are to be found in these churches, not those who follow Christ (John 10:5). Therefore, if you are involved in a false church, you prove yourself to be still lost in your sin. God calls you an evildoer (Proverbs 17:4), and by His Word identifies you as not one of His own by the sheer fact that you do not flee such wickedness (John 10:5; 1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 2:20-21; 3:5; Hebrews 12:14; 13:13).

Someone might argue, "But, the Lord used Billy Graham (or some other false teacher) to bring me to Christ." This too is a lie, because false teachers, like those mentioned at the beginning of this article, are,


III. Wells Without Water

Speaking of false teachers, Peter wrote,

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (2 Peter 2:17)

Peter calls false teachers "wells without water." Jude says they are "clouds without water" (Jude 12). What does this mean?

In the Scriptures, water is used to speak of the Spirit of truth (i.e. the Holy Spirit, John 7:37-39; 14:15-18; 15:26; 16:13), God (Jeremiah 2:13/17:13), and salvation (Isaiah 55:1; Psalm 36:9; John 4:10-14; Revelation 7:17; 21:6; 22:1,17). Therefore, if false teachers are without this water, they do not have the Holy Spirit (like in Jude 19). They are without God (2 John 9), and do not have salvation (2 Peter 2:3, 12-14, 17; Jude 4, 11, 13). As 1 Timothy 6:5 says, they are "destitute of the truth" and know "nothing".

The Lord calls them "wells" and "clouds." A well is a hole in the ground that is supposed to have water, or gives the appearance that it would have water. A cloud likewise gives the appearance that it carries moisture. Yet, a well or a cloud without water gives a false impression, and false teachers do this well. They fool the masses into thinking God is using them to bring people to Christ, but it is all a Satanic facade (as in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15). They have no water. They have no truth (truth mixed with lies = deceit and no truth), no salvation, and no Holy Spirit. Thus, they do nothing but deceive people. They are as Jesus said, "blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch" (Matthew 15:14). Jesus also said,

The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. (John 10:10a)

This statement is made in the context of "thieves and robbers" (John 10:1, 8). It is not speaking solely of Satan, but rather his ministers as well (2 Corinthians 11:15; John 10:1). It lets us know the sole purpose of these charlatans, and that is to deceive (to steal, kill, and destroy). They steal using "great swelling words of emptiness" (2 Peter 2:18). They kill by being used by the devil (1 Peter 5:8) to divert people away from the words of life (Proverbs 4:20-22; 14:12; 18:21; Philippians 2:16). And they destroy with their "destructive heresies" (2 Peter 2:1). They may not be aware of the depth of their own evil (e.g. John 16:2-3; 2 Timothy 3:13), but they are nonetheless "like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed" (2 Peter 2:12); and they do destroy others.

If the Lord were to use a false teacher for some good, it would be in spite of him, not because of him. As the Lord used Balaam the false prophet to bless Israel (Numbers 22-24), it was not because Balaam was a godly man or one who lead people to God (Numbers 25:1-9; 31:16; 2 Peter 2:15-16). It was simply because God turned the curse into a blessing (Deuteronomy 23:5; Nehemiah 13:2). Scripture does not teach that the Lord uses false teachers to lead people to Christ. On the contrary, the Word teaches that God uses false teachers to lead people away from Christ (Psalm 118:22-24; Romans 11:36; 1 Peter 2:7).

False teachers falsely boast of giving the gospel to people. But they are like the one mentioned in Proverbs 25:14.

Whoever falsely boasts of giving is like clouds and wind without rain.

They are clouds and wells without water, a dry disappointment.

If you are going to "draw water from the wells of salvation" (Isaiah 12:3), you need to go where the water is to be found (John 4:10, 13-14). It is not found with the likes of the men mentioned above. It is not found in the myriad of false churches and ministries. It is found in the pages of the Word of God (1 Peter 1:22-23; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13). Cry out (Proverbs 2:3), weep (James 4:9), and seek for understanding (Proverbs 2:4) like there is no tomorrow, because for most, there is no tomorrow (Psalm 9:17; 92:7; Proverbs 1:24-32; Matthew 7:13-14).

Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:24, see also What Must I Do To Be Saved?)


a true church, P. O. Box 797, Lake Hughes, CA 93532

1-800-HOW-TRUE, www.atruechurch.info

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Guest Ace

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 07:41 pm
"If you are going to "draw water from the wells of salvation" (Isaiah 12:3), you need to go where the water is to be found (John 4:10, 13-14). It is not found with the likes of the men mentioned above."

Amen. It is not found with any man but the man Christ Jesus.

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Anonymous

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 09:18 pm
TO GUEST ACE, AMEN!
AL SOTO SOUNDS LIKE A DEMON STRAIGHT FROM WHERE HE LOVES TO SOUND OFF ABOUT SO MUCH....!

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Guest Ace

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:10 pm
Much of what he (No Deceit) says is true. But our focus is not to be on man - it is to be on Jesus Christ.

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Anonymous

Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:26 pm
TO GUEST ACE I ALSO THINK THAT TRUE CHURCH USES SCRIPTURE BUT NOT ALL SCRIPTUE. I FIND IT EXTRADINARY THAT HE TALKS MAINLY ABOUT HATE, HELL, AND EVERYONE BUT HIM AND TRUE CHURCH ARE GOING THERE. SINCE IT IS GODS WILL THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED, GODS WILL MUST BE BEING DEFEATED. BUT I BELIEVE THAT MANY, MANY, MANY WILL BE SAVED. KEEP UP THE GOSPEL NEWS. REALLY IN HIS LOVE,

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 12:03 am
Whoahh...! What kind of ultra orthodox bible freaks are posting in this forum?

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 01:53 am
Using only scripture that speaks of hell, torment, death, wrath, suffering, fear and destruction does not tell the entire story. Using those scriptures exclusively would make a person wonder what kind of God is it that we serve.
The scriptures describing God's love, mercy, patience, kindness, forgiveness and gentleness have been left out. Note this is in the bible also. Tell the entire story not just part of it.
Remember there are non Christians reading these posts. Isn't winning souls for Christ more important than making a point. The Lord is watching what you say even when posting on a discussion board. Are you going to argue a point concerning a person's destruction or a person's salvation? Bringing souls to Christ should be our number one job. We are living in a time of grace. Today is the day of salvation. People will read this board and say "I'm glad I'm not a Christian, they are mean to one another". Speak so people will want to come to Christ not in a way to make them turn away. Build each other up and not tear each other down. For we are all brothers and sisters in Christ,heirs together. Be careful when you point your finger at another even when you use scripture to prove your point. Only God can see our hearts. Only God can say the lake of fire or
eternity with him. Guest Ace I do commend you on your gentleness and patience. We should all take note in not only what you said but how you said it.
If we just all remembered John13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another as I have loved you that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

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No Deceit

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:07 am
Amen salvation is only in one name under heaven, Jesus Christ. But our focus is on loving the truth, defending it, and exposing lies. Why, because it matters.

You miss the obvious. Our focus is on Jesus Christ. John 1:1 and Matt 4:4 says it all. Because our focus is on Jesus Christ we do what we do. We obey His commands and you Guest keep saying that this is wrong. That our focus is wrong. You.....are wrong.

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 02:25 pm
hello...this is kate again....why cant casey speak to us....i read his mothers letters again....what happened with the problem of child abuse...what happened to your wife casey...all this discussion is about a mom and wife and child who lost thier son, husband and father to a cult who does not even believe in God, yet this mother and wife seem to stil care. All these people talking about the bible does not answer the question or the statement of worry to the public that this cult apparently kidnapped spiritualy and we are not hearing from him, just this soto person, really, shouldnt someone be calling the child services and police on this situation instead of arguing, its lke the house burns down while you guys all fight over which water hose to use....kate

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:01 pm
Kate if you noticed the subject is not about Casey his mother or his child. If you had read the earlier posts you would have seen he chooses to communicate via email and not the discussion board. If you have questions for him click on his name and email him.
And Al Soto I did see what the subject was about. It just seemed there was a lot of bickering and that is why I bought up the fact that we should respect each other regardless of the subject being discussed.

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No Deceit

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:13 am
Coward, who calls herself Kate, may God forgive your wicked words of deceit.

al soto

I can forward you his number if you wish to speak with him? Would you call?

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No Deceit

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:18 am
Well, there are soo many anonymous's on this board, its hard to keep track. I am sorry to see that many of you are afraid to use your real names.

Anyhow, as to respect...sure we should be longsuffering and respectful, but I do not respect false beliefs and I will cast those down. AND...false teachers they are to be noted and avoided.

In His love,
al soto

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 02:32 am
I would not give someone in your mental condition my real name for no reason. You can call this cowardy or whatsoever, but I am convinced that the sole association with people talking like you constitutes a danger for the mental health of anyone. You talk like a cultic freak and there is no way I can trust you as a person, because I can see you have lost your marbles since quite a while. I hate to say this but, since the problem of cultism is contagious, no person with some healthy level of sanity should associate with people like you in a personal manner. The way you talk and reason, you do not leave your interlocutor any chance for self-explanation of his own questions of being. You are dogmatic, fanatic and active-aggressive. You are nuts.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 01:26 pm
hi, this is kate. i just went to work and back on web.
i dont want caseys number, i would rather talk to mother, i just push rita bryant or what?
Anyway, to soto, i did not mean you do not believe in God, just that you dont BELIEVE in HIM, His power, His love, His longsuffering, His forgiveness. Or maybe its that I dont think you have experieced the salvation plan of God which is so simple. So simple. I see Jesus in my heart, sitting with the trees and mountains emcompassing Him or in temples with people sitting at his feet or walking along dusty paths with his friends and followers. I know He is firm but Jesus taught a different message than you are bringing into the world. I know that i know that you need to ask God to show you His true message of hope and peace in our lives and forever.
You dont seem to have peace and i am sorrowful for you. Peace, the knowledge that my Lord and Savior is with me all the time. I want to add that i believe that 1 and 2 Cor speaks about this. 2 cor paul tells us how he does not come with big words but rather with a message of christ crucified.
cor 1 speaks of
18: for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. For it is written
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelliegence of the intelligent i will frustrate.
23: but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to jews and foolishness to gentiles, 25: for the fooishness of God is wiser than mans wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than mans strength.

Now, to anyone new on this open format, God is not hard, Jesus is easy, He does save you and keep you by the power of His blood. Remember, he died for you and me. We do not have to have anybody on this earth to tell us whether we are going to hell or not. If you are reading this and think you could never be a Christian because you are not well read enough, please, for God sakes, accept Him now, and His Holy Spirit will bring you to His Knowledge of Love. And its a spiritual warfare out here, Satan does not care one thing about you until you say, yes Lord, i want you in my life, and then, here comes Satan and he goes like a lion thorougout the land devouring whomever he can, including our young. I believe that certain cults are of Satan and the anti christ and we must pray they are destroyed spiritually by the power of prayer and that our young ones go back to their first love and rejoice that their Father Jesus is waiting with open arms and tears streaming down His eyes and the angels are singing their wondrous songs. I believe God has let me tell all in groups out there wondering if they should go home, yes, if it is not feeling right, not good, if its full of hate and fighting and turmoil, how could this be of God. How? I tell all of you that i know that i know that on that great day when i meet jesus he will embrace me and only He can judge my deeds. Not soto or his group. For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son that we might be saved, and i believe that salvation not only happens at the time of repentence but is an ongoing, growing part of us. Please, dont anybody listen to soto.
pray, rather, that he might go back to the word and be saved thru the blood of christ at calvary. At the cross, where i first saw the light is all anyone needs. kate

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:01 pm
This is, at the end of the day, a site about cults. Darwin Fish, and his little sidekick Al Soto, are part of a cult. He wins every time somebody else posts here, arguing with him about nothing.

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No Deceit

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 03:59 pm
So what makes a church a cult? Please, what is your proof. No one has proven this.

al

PS. If you can not do so, it is called slander. Some here have said I am saved, some here call us a cult, so what is it?

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:11 pm
this is, at the end of day, about Good versis Evil. Will study cults and get back to subject possibly tomorrow. Is someone out there trembling at the name of Jesus? Kate

Ps. Rita Bryant, if you are watching, please, who is casey and what was he like before he met soto.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 04:41 pm
Hello Kate. Thank you for telling the truth about our Lord. I don't tremble at the name of Jesus, it only makes me joyful. Thank you for telling it the way it really is. Everyone should read the fourth post above this one.
If you want to write Rita Bryant just click on her name and you can email her.
Casey is her son.
Al Soto there are many people here on this board that will not write in their real names. Some because of you and I think most because there are so many unbalanced people in the world. Not speaking of the people posting here but there are people lurking here also. Ever heard of cyber stalkers? It's not safe, especially if you are female. Because this board allows you to post anonymously you will find more people posting here. I think that is a good thing.
To the post that states when we post here Al Soto wins. Anytime a person can speak the truth about the Lord and many people can see it, the Lord wins.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 05:17 pm
dear anoymous: Thank you very much for your word of encouragment. The Lord does always win. bye for now, thanks for telling me how to contact rita, hope though she contacts the this site to give her opionion to everyone so that others might keep up her vigil with her.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 07:07 pm
i dont want to give my defnition of cult right now, i would rather you give me your definition. I know my feelings about groups, meetings, but would rather get your definition. Are you still trying to get me off the subject i am on, Casey and his Mom by getting me to get on subject cults, dont we all have our perceptions of cults. will be gone for a day or so, not a "coward", just working again. kate

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Anonymous

Monday, September 23, 2002 - 07:32 pm
THE EARTH CHARTER PREAMBLE

< Document deleted by administrator. You can see another copy of this at http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/489.html?1033314473 >

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:06 am
To who ever you are, In all your ways to improve the earth you never once mentioned God the creator of the earth. With all your togetherness talk you sound a like a NEW AGER. I don't agree with your way of improving the world at all. You are going about it all wrong. Seek God first!!!

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 05:37 am
Global society, We are one human family and one earth community, a common destiny,
global partnership, reconizge all beings are interdependent. This from the second post above this one.
All these ideas are New Age ideas as the previous post stated. This is the teaching of satan. These New Age people believe we are on the verge of a one world government, one world religous system, one authority for the entire world. And you know they are right. Satan has given them this info. They are working towards this goal. They think it will bring love and peace to the entire world. Well it will bring a false peace for three and a half years. Christians already know this. Non Christians please don't listen to anyone who tells you this. Oh all the words sound nice but it is to deceive you. The bible warns that this will happen. The one world authority is the anti christ who will get his power from Satan. This is not a fairy tale. It is the truth. Read Revelations. God has warned us of this. He will come back don't doubt that. Please stay as far away from New Age teachings as you can. The new age beliefs are only satan's ideas. Satan is a liar and a deceiver..If you think he doesn't exist, just look at the world and the mess it is in. Poverty, murders, stealing, rapes,all kinds of lawlessness. More than I can list. Satan knows his time is short and he is prowling around looking for who he can devour. Adults think back twenty years. Have times changed? Are times better or worse? Oh technology is improved but what about man's heart. People are much more wicked than twenty years ago. So many people are doing so much evil. IT is called sin. It gets worse as time goes on. We are living in the last days. Just do this one thing. Look up new age beliefs online. Read what they believe. Then please read Revalations in the bible and compare them. Say a pray and ask God to open your eyes and let you see. Please turn to Christ. He is truly the only way.

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Jean-Paul

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:23 pm
this is the anonymous that Al Soto accused of slander several posts above.


self-published manifestos are almost always obnoxious. This kind of "moral high" that is pervading on this site is not only disgusting, but contradictory to the purpose of this site- to identify cults. With everyone prattling about the world as they see it, I cannot help but think that we have more than a couple of potential cult leaders/members in the making right here. Put away your egos and two cents for a moment, and concentrate on the fact that our main purpose here should be to share information about Darwin Fish so that curious readers can use that information to decide whether or not Darwin Fish is right for them.

What do you possibly hope to accomplish by arguing with Al Soto? The guy could probably find a bible quote concerning what we should all eat for lunch, i.e. you can't beat him so long as that is the focus of the argument. One could use the bible to prove just about anything.

So please, lets hear some conclusive posts on the general topic of whether or not Darwin Fish is dangerous.

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No Deceit

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 03:29 pm
Amen. Are we "dangerous"?

What makes us a cult?

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:03 pm
Jean Paul I can speak on anything I choose here. If someone comes here with a long line about Global community I will answer it regardless of if you want to hear it or not. This entire site is about false teachings of cults. And New Age is false teaching. If Al Soto had written that I would have addressed him but he didn't.
Since he is a false teacher as you said why don't you talk about. Why don't you give some conclusive evidence. Don't tell me what I can't say here. I am only trying to warn people about false teachings. I am no cult leader as you said. Nor do I want to be one. I am only warning as the bible has stated. It is not my ego. It is God's teachings I spoke of. You can either accept it or not.
And Al Soto I thought you were so against false teachings. You said amen to what Jean Paul's said.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:04 pm
Jean Paul I can speak on anything I choose here. If someone comes here with a long line about Global community I will answer it regardless of if you want to hear it or not. This entire site is about false teachings of cults. And New Age is false teaching. If Al Soto had written that I would have addressed him but he didn't.
Since he is a false teacher as you said why don't you talk about. Why don't you give some conclusive evidence. Don't tell me what I can't say here. I am only trying to warn people about false teachings. I am no cult leader as you said. Nor do I want to be one. I am only warning as the bible has stated. It is not my ego. It is God's teachings I spoke of. You can either accept it or not.
And Al Soto I thought you were so against false teachings. You said amen to what Jean Paul said.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:31 pm
I have read most of The True Church website. And everything that is said by the site and by Al Soto is backed up by scripture. Scripture is true. But using only the scriptures that will condemn is not being completely truthful because so much is being left out. When you say Al Soto is a false teacher I think it should be said he is a half truth teacher. He does not speak of all scripture, only the parts he can use to condemn you. It's like telling a story and leaving out half of it. And I am sure he will condemn me for saying this and send me to hell like he has sent so many others.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:50 pm
hi, this is kate. I would like to address the first letter that started all this, rita bryants concern about her son Casey who left his family for a church. It is m personal opinion that this is certainly a part of joining a cult. After reading fish articles, they seem weird. I believe that it should be God first, family second and church third. What God has joined together, let no man or church run by man put asunder. Rita Bryant, Casey, where are you. What is the truth?

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Anonymous

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 11:44 am
this is kate. Rita Bryant, may i contact you personally on the site, or would that be invading your privacy. i am a woman and i have a loved one also that is out there. if we can prove this soto guy and group is dangerous, i want to help in any way i can. just say yes or no if i can send you personal messages if you are reading this.

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Jean-Paul

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 12:09 pm
The only posts that belong on this site are the first five; which expressed concern over the group, some sharing of relatively objective information, and a brief defense by the group, that stated nothing other than a desire for interested persons to check out their website: very reasonable.

Thereafter, it turned into a holier-than-thou debate, with everyone pointing their finger at each other.

Rita Bryant, and probably Casey Bryant, are gone. Lets get over that. The most we could ever hope for at this point is to understand why they are gone (not that it would change anything).

I personally don't feel that Darwin Fish is right for me, and that they (the "true church") are probably a bit unhealthy. That's just me, though. I can't imagine that anyone really cares about my personal views on the subject, seeing as I have never had any personal experience with the group. Who knows, maybe we've just been catching Al Soto in a bad mood?

I'm not trying to say one "cannot" post opinions, I'm just saying that the potential for heated debates (such as this one) is so great, one ought to practice restraint and just stick with the facts.

And yes, I'm aware of the irony in posting an opinion against posting opinions.

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No Deceit

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 12:56 pm
Still waiting...........

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Rita Bryant

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 02:07 pm
Yes, Kate, you may send me a message. Jean-Paul, I am not gone. I'm watching all this and I would say that my point has been made. I'm very sad for my son. I'm very sad for my young daughter-in-law and our precious granddaughter. No husband, no daddy. That's a fact!
Rita

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No Deceit

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 03:12 pm
Hey Rita, her dad is in Bakersfield where she can move to.

Is it a sin to move to a different city?

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No Deceit

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 03:25 pm
Psalm 27
A Psalm of David.
1 The LORD is my light and my salvation;
Whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the strength of my life;
Of whom shall I be afraid?
2When the wicked came against me
To eat up my flesh,
My enemies and foes,
They stumbled and fell.
3Though an army may encamp against me,
My heart shall not fear;
Though war may rise against me,
In this I will be confident.

Well, I have said enough. I will not contend further with cowards who will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Read the above verse and tell me you are not being cowards. You can not even give your name? That is sad.

1st- No one has shown from the word of God were we teach error.
2nd- No one has casted down our arguments.
3rd- Rita Bryant continues to hate her son and the rest of us for not trying to show us the "error" of our ways.

The door is always open to those who desire the truth. May God save your souls. You people have shown yourself to hate knowledge. Guest Ace you at least attemtped to contend for the faith (I thank for you for that), although you are still in error, the rest of you provided nothing but slander.

May God save your souls.

al soto
no-deceit@atruechurch.info
661-822-1222 (cowards need not call....what I am saying, the cowards on this board would not call)

Proverbs 14
6A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it,
But knowledge is easy to him who understands.
7Go from the presence of a foolish man,
When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.
8The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way,
But the folly of fools is deceit.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 04:23 pm
Oh there you go again the famous Al Soto.
You had been a little quiet. But as soon as you see Rita Byrant you start with your quotes again. It was explained to you before why people don't put their names down. If you are so dense you can't understand that it is too bad. Also is that all you can say about the people who post here?? Guest Ace was right but he was not the only one that was right. The only person Al Soto listens to is Al Soto.
Why would you think anyone would listen to you.

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Guest Ace

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 09:08 am
No Deceit,

I don't plan on posting here again, but I think I should point something out that I'm not even sure you notice. But whether or not you do is not my concern. It is simply support for my contention of the spirit that you bring being focused on the man more than the teaching. You are ready to charge other men with slander and blaspheme, yet you yourself return what could be considered slanderous and even blasphemous. Your last post is a good example:

"(cowards need not call....what I am saying, the cowards on this board would not call)"

and IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING (which made me wonder if you were doing it in jest or not) was this:

"A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it,
But knowledge is easy to him who understands.
Go from the presence of a foolish man ..."

You charge others with slander and blaspheme and then call them scoffers and cowards. I see tit for tat here. But this is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ who said:

" Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
Matthew 5:43-45

and

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Matthew 5:22

Calling others cowards does not evidence the Spirit of Jesus Christ:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
Matthew 5:38,39

You had the opportunity to do so, to speak kindly to unbelievers but instead called them cowards and scoffers.

Again, I go back to the spirit vs. the letter. You are very proficient in comparing letter to letter. But 2 Cor 3 shows the spirit to be far exceeding in benefit.

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?"
2 Corinthians 3:6-8

And that ministration of death was the written letter. If you say it was just the law, I say that Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, lumped more than that into "Law":

" Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
John 10:34

Here He is quoting Psalms and calling it your law (to the Jews). Christ's Law is not written in stone, in letter, but comes by the Spirit of God (which the Israelites, in their hardness of heart, rejected for centuries).

Your posts are fine as far as the letter goes, but they miss life - they miss the full Spirit of Christ. That is how people may know we know Him. That is what causes men to see our good works and glorify our Father who is in Heaven.

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 01:04 pm
to guest ace: thank you so much for your very fine words. kate
to the general popultion. am in contact with rita bryant and she loves her son dearly, dearly. she is waiting for him as is his dear wife and baby girl.

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 08:48 pm
Guest Ace you say it very well. I agree completely with what you said. As for me, this is also the last time I am postiing here. I have had it. I think Al Soto said it right in one of his posts Proverbs14:7
Go from the presence of a foolish man.
So I am getting out of his presence.
Sorry Guest Ace, I just can't be as nice as you are. I'll keep trying though.

Kate God bless you and Rita. I hope she gets her son back.

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Anonymous

Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 09:56 pm
bye anonymous: al soto probably cant take all these niceities so we may all be gone soon. see ya later. kate
still talking to rita, very nice person. You can tell she is a serious thinker and a caring person.
Pray for Casey, his Mother and Father are waiting and trusting God for his safe return. And his wife loves him and is going to be here for him. Casey must be a truly special person, it sounds like a spiritual warfare for his body, soul and spirit is going on full fledged at this very moment..and Gods Army will win every time. Lets just believe that the
ArchAngel Michael will carry Casey home soon! Bye!

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Guest Ace

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 09:53 am
To All....

Just to clarify, there is no righteousness ANYONE can have apart from Jesus Christ. It is only His righteousness that can present us blameless before the throne of God. So it is that we are to strive for the truth - with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. And that can only be done by knowing Him. There will always be many groups clamoring that they have the truth. Some of them very well may. But the only way one can know the truth is through Jesus Christ. And then THE TRUTH will set you free. So all these men that this group challenges have to answer for the untruths they teach, but by judging the men, groups heap judgement on themselves. Only by following Christ's example are we able to receive truth. And it was He who said :

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Matthew 5:44

and

" But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
Mark 10:43-45

The heart of Jesus Christ is that of a servant. Doing God's will. Don't heap loads of burden on other people by condemning them where you see them going wrong, but in all things:

" Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."
Galatians 6:1,2

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Anonymous

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:17 am
Guest Ace: Thank You, Kate

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Anonymous

Friday, September 27, 2002 - 03:44 pm
you know, there is every possibility that Casey has not been brainwashed.

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Anonymous

Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 09:15 pm
I am praying for you to go home Casey Bryant to your family. kate

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 04:18 pm
To Darvan Fish
THERE IS NO HELL WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BURN FOR ETERNITY SO YOU LITTLE BUGGERS SHOULD NOT BE SO PESKY . SINCE YOUR HATE FILLED EVERYBODY GOING TO HELL BUT YOU AND THE SOTO FELLOW MESSAGE IS IRREVANT, MEANINGLESS, OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, WASTING YOUR TIME, THE PICKETING ET AL, LAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS. GET A PSYCH AND HOPEFULLY HE WILL HELP YOU, PROBABLY HATE YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER TYPE THING, DONT YOU THINK? SURELY ONES WOULD FEEL VERY INSECURE TO PREACH THIS SORT OF JARGEN TO ANYONE AND EXPECT THE RESPECT OF CHRISTIANS. BOSWELL

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 04:52 pm
There will be a lake of fire for Satan and his demons. Also for the people who have rejected God's gift of salvation. Jesus his son who died for our sins so that we might be saved.
But the way Darwin Fish and his group speaks not many people will respect them or listen to them. Because of this, many people who might have excepted the gospel will mock it and turn away. Just because the bible was written so long ago does not mean it can't be applied to today. The people who say this either hasn't read it or has read it but does not understand it.
It does not limit the amount of fun or adventure you can have as a many people think. It tells you that before a holy God we are all sinners. People in the biblical times had to sacrifice animals for their sins. But God is so wonderful he stopped that and sent his son to die for us instead. Jesus has wiped our sins out and we stand blameless in front of a holy God. All you have to do is believe that in your heart and confess with your mouth and you will be saved. It's not hard at all. I hope even those of you who don't belive will at least think about it.

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 05:28 pm
You are a crazy bigot with too much idle time to spend bothering your fellow people with very paranoid ideas. Please accept my humble suggestion: Try fo find a community based program that may give you the opportunity to become a helpful member of society. Work for sometime helping others and stop reading your freaking bible that way or you are going to end up being institutionalized as a hopeless psychotic.

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 08:49 pm
ANONYMOUS ONE; YOU HAVE A GODLY SPIRIT, I FEEL IT AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE SINCERE. GOD BLESS YOU.
IF YOU ARE KATE, LOVE, THEN YOU ARE ADORABLE, IF NOT A TWIT. IF THE BOY GOES HOME BEFORE ITS HIS TIME, IT WILL BE WITH A CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER AND A FISH IN HIS BAG. LET HIM ROT FOR AWHILE IN THE WILDERNESS. AGAIN, GOD BLESS AND REMEMBER, THIS IS THE OLD USA WHERE FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SO WONDERFUL, NOW GOODBYE TO YU, MY DEAR.

ANONYMOUS TWO: I SMELL FISH! STINKY FISH. SO, FISH, LETS MEET AT DUSK TOMORROW EVENING WITH SWORDS IN HAND. YOU GIVE ME A HELL SCRIPTURE AND I WILL TAKE THE SCALES OFF AND TOSS THEM TO SOTO FOR BAIT. SO , ARE YOU ON?

TO CASEY BRYANT, THE WONDER BOY. I HAVE , YOUNG FELLOW HAVE OUGHT WITH YOU. THERE IS SIN IN YOUR LIFE. YES, IT WAS, INDEED A SIN TO MOVE WITH YOUR FELLOW FRIENDS AND LEAVE THE CHILD. YOU HAVE OFFENDED THE YOUNG CHILD. WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY ABOUT OFFENDING A LITTLE ONE, BETTER THAN A MILSTONE ROUND HIS NECK, OR MABYE IN FISHTOWN, YOU MIGHT BURN CRISPY CRITTERS. SO, YOUNG MAN, THE CHILD CANNOT SPEAK FOR THEIRSELF. I HAVE BECOME THE SPOKESPERSON, THE CHILD IS OFFENDED BY YOUR ABANDAMENT. GOD IS OFFENDED THEREFORE. THEREFORE, YOU ARE IN ERROR AND IN YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEFS OPINION, THATS A BAD PLACE TO BE. COURSE YOU KNOW THE WIFE, CANT SPEAK FOR HER, BUT READ THAT FISHMEN SAID SHE WAS HMMM BAD. TRUE, CASEY, TRUE? COME ON, LITTLE FISHEY, TAKE MY BAIT....OR ARE YOU A COWARD AND ARE THEY LIARS ABOUT YOUR WIFE?

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Anonymous

Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 11:42 pm
Still, it would be very nice if you could become able to set all that energy in something really useful that could benefit your community and give you back the feeling of belonging to a common reality. As it is now, you are repeating empty messages that don't change anything because you aren't changing either. On the day the Savior comes to take with him his flock from among us, he will certainly reject to acknowledge having ever met you, because with your mouth you repeated a worthless mantra that wasn't demonstrated in your actions. You can talk about flower power all you can and still your words will sound like empty vessels because you are a liar. Liying to yourself all the time in front of a computer screen. Hidden from the most devastating reality that you cannot face because it terrifies you: Your heart has turned so evil that only through maniac repetition of mantras that won't convince a soul around you, because you are not convincing at all. And, you may write even longer messages ten times a day, but nobody will be moved by your emptiness that has already surrounded your soul with devastating consequences. You can lie to yourself, but you won't be able to lie to the Force that observes your actions. You may try with all your energy to convince others of your litany of salvation but deep inside you know that you did not convince anyone around you because you are emptiness filled with desperation and bible texts that don't help you find peace.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:41 am
To the post that said "You are a crazy bigot". I am far from crazy and I am certainly no bigot. If you knew even a little bit about me you would know that. To say that about someone you have never met is a little foolish I think.
I believe that Christ died for me and because I do, I tell others. No one is making you believe anything. No one is trying to make you accept anything. You can choose what ever you like. You were given freedom of choice by God. But because this is a public board and I am part of the public, I think I have the right to post whatever and whenever I like.
Oh and just fyi I am a professional in an field that helps others and I am a productive and sane member of society. What do you do besides verbally attacking someone just because they believe in God?

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 11:03 am
ANONYMOUS ONE; ARE YOU A MEMBER OF FISH GROUP?

ANONYOUS TWO; ARE YOU A MEMBER OF FISH GROUP?

I AM ONLY BAITING FISH AND SOTO..THEY SEEM TO BE OFF THE WIRE....I WONDER THOUGH, FREAKING BIBLE, THAT MIGHT BE, PROBABLY TOO MUCH BEER AND SMOKING THIS WEEKEND, THEY DO DRINK AND SMOKE YOU KNOW, NASTY HABITS....

IF YOU TWO TELL ME YOU ARE NOT FISHITES I WILL VANISH...BOSWELL

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:38 pm
hi, this is Kate. Amazing! I wonder who will join next. Where is No Deceit, thought he would love to do battle with Bosell. well, i am still talking with Cseys Mother Rita Bryant and she is so nice and so spiritualy on. I just want us all to stay on the subject , Casey being taken from a crowd gathered for the wonderful and precious man of God, Billy Graham. He stopped to object to their ideas about Billy Graham and they , as Rita said, snared him into their group. He left his wife and baby and now lives somewhere in bakersfield and is under the thumb of Darwin Fish and Al Soto. I dont know if hes been brainwashed or not, but it seems to me any man that would bring the goup of men to Fresno and load up Casey and his wifes houseful stuff, including fridge and food and leave the wife with her personal items and thirty dollars must need spiritual counseling.
She went to her Mothers house , where they have no money and no work nor car. The wife only gets to go somewhere at the mercy of others.. It is so sad, this woman waiting with love for this man , and he does not see the baby every night, sometimes only once every two weeks. Rita does not say if he pays child support but I hope so. Its just not right, not right.
Why does Caseys Pastor Fish not tell him to stay with his family. I talk to Rita a lot, she says that Casey expects her to move there. But he told her she could have no friends but his and his group , Fish told her she could not come there. Also, she cannot talk to Rita or relatives, except her Mom and Dad.
She cant have television or photos on wall, has to eat a certain way, said he would watch what she ate and how much when she was pregnant. I dont know, sounds pretty cult like to me, if hes listening to Fish on all this.
Well, talking to Rita is much more sprit filled than these people , so then i will take a couple days off. Just wanted the general public to know I personally think that Fishes group is a cult.

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:27 pm
AH, THERE GOES THAT KATE AGAIN.
QUESTION FOR NO DECEIT
NO DECEIT.

A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL NAMED TAMMY WAS LEFT ORPHANED AND PUT IN HER UNCLE AND AUNTS CARE WITH THEIR TWO SONS.
UNCLE BILL MOLESTS THE CHILD FROM THREE YEARS OLD TILL AGE TWELVE AS WELL AS HIS SONS, THE AUNT KNOWS BUT TURNS HER EYE AND EAR.
TAMMY FINALLY RUNS OFF TO THE STREET AT TWELVE AND BEGINS TO SELL HER BODY FOR DRUGS ND FOOD. SHE GOES FROM ONE SHELTER TO NEXT AND TURNS FOURTEEN AND LOOKS THIRTY, HER BODY TORN AND RAVISHED SINCE AGE THREE.
TAMMY SEES AT ONE OF THE SHELTERS A SIGN SAYING, BILLY GRAHAM NOW AT CONFERENCE CENTER, COME, AND HE WILL GIVE YOU HIS MESSAGE OF HOPE.
TAMMY WALKS THE WHOLE WAY AND WHEN THE MESSAGE IS GIVEN AND THE GRAHAM CALLS THE PEOPLE DOWN FOR THE ALTER CALL, TAMMY IS OUT OF HER SEAT AND RUNNING. SHE GIVES HER WHOLE LIFE OVER TO GOD, REPENTS OF HER SIN.
THAT EVENING SHE IS SENT TO A REHABILITATION CENTER AND BEGINS THERAPY.
THE NEXT DAY, TAMMY IS TAKEN BY CENTER BUS TO DOCTOR FOR CHECKUP. ON THE WAY, THE BUS IS HIT BY TRAIN.
QUESTION TO NO DECEIT.
WILL TAMMY GO TO HEAVEN OR HELL?
JUST OLE BOSWELL OUT HERE WANTING A GOOD FIGHT WITH THOSE FISH CLAN.

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Jean-Paul

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 02:36 pm
you're all crazy

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:04 pm
AH, THE WHOLESOME JEAN PAUL, ARE YOU A FISH EGG, JUST WANT TO FRY FISH, THATS ALL.....AT LEAST YOU HAVE A COMMENT, SEEMS OLD FISH IS THE COWARD AFTER ALL..UNLESS HE CHANGED HIS NAME TO JEAN PAUL, I NOTICE, LIKE MYSELF, YOU REMAIN ANONYMOUS. IF MY NAME WRE DARVAN FISH, I WOULD TAKE A NICE NAME LIKE JEAN PAUL TOO. ME, BOSWELL SEEMS RIGHT AT THE MOMENT. NO COMMENTS NEEDED, CRAZY IS ENOUGH, BUT ARENT WE CHASING THE CRAZIES IN THE CULTS AFTER ALL. MAYBE IT TAKES A NUT TO CRACK A NUT. SOTO, SOUNDS LIKE A NAME HE PICKED BECAUSE HES PUNIE AND CUTE AND A WANNA BE BIG SOTO. I THINK I WILL GO TALK TO SOTO THE HALF FISH ON HIS LINE. HE WILL KNOW WHO I AM WHEN HE SEES MY WEB SITE AND THEN HE WILL HAVE A BIG LAUGH, STILL THE SAME OLE SOTO PROBABLY, THROWING THAT PRETTY WIFE OUT THE BACK DOOR , STAYING IN FRONT OF HIS OWN LITTLE COMPUTER, BRINGING IN THOSE BUCKS TO BUILD FISH HOME, IS THAT A LEGAL HOME OUT THERE BY THE WAY, BE CAREFUL ALL YE PEOPLE, THEY HAVENET ELECTRICITY BUT THEY DO HAVE GUNS AND AMMO...AND I KNOW LOTS MORE, SO FISH AND SOTO, DOES TAMMY GO TO HAVEN OR HELL ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF FSIHMOUTH.
ANOTHER QUESTION:
A FISHETTE, THATS A CULT PERSON IN THE FISH GROUP FOR ALL THATS WATCHING, SINS. HE REPENTS. THEY WEEP AND CRY AND WEEP AND CRY.
BUT THEN THEY CATCH HIM , AH, SINNING AGAIN, LIKE TELLING A LIE, NOT A SEX SIN, DONT KNOW IF THEY HAVE MANY OF THOSE, I HEAR THEY ARE WANTING MORE WIVES IF IT WERE LEGAL, MIND YOU...SO THIS BLOKE LIES AND HAS ALREADY REPNENTED. ACCORDING TO FISHITTES, THIS GUY IS DONE IN. HES OFF TO HELL. ONCE FISH SAYS HES DONE , ACCORDING TO HIS WORD, HES BURNING. RIGHT, FISH

AND THAT POOR LITTLE LAMB, TAMMY , THAT GOT SAVED AND REPENTED AND THEN KILLED THE NEXT DAY, WHY, ACCORDING O THE WORD OF THE FISH CULT, SHE BURNING FOR AN ETERNITY, FLAMES LEAPING AT HER DAY AND NIGHT. THERE IS NO WAY SHE COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED AT THE BILLY GRAHAM CRUSADE. SHES DEAD MEAT. THATS IT. THERES NOT MANY GOING TO HEAVEN ACCORDING TO FISH. HOPE HIS ELEVEN CHILDREN DONT MESS UP TO BAD. DID I HEAR HE KICKED HIS MOTHER OUT OF HIS BAND OF ANGELS.
MERCY, WHAT DID DADDY SAY?
FISH, SOTO, STEP UP TO THE PLATE, YOU COWARDLY SNAKES IN THE GRASS WITH YOUR POISON VENOM SENDING HATRED AND HELL TO EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY. WANNA KNOW WHO THIS IS, BE RIGHT THERE IN ABOUT FOUR HOURS. LET YOU WAIT UNTIL THEN. BOSSIE

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Rita Bryant

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 04:31 pm
Yes, there are alot of crazies out there.

First, Mr. Soto, you need to be corrected on your manners. "Mam and hey, Rita" are definitely an impolite way to address a person you know for a fact to be the mother of one of your members. Shame on you!

For those who may not have gone to this group's site, I would like to post a few quotes from there, from a tape, and talk about what I've seen and heard. On reading these quotes, I warned my daughter-in-law. Please, don't put yourself and the baby in this situation. I feared for their well being, physically and emotionally. We also tried to warn our son. Quote: " The reason women EVEN EXIST is not so that they can be independent entities. The reason they EXIST is so that they can help men." (Emphasis mine.) Quote: "...it doesn't matter if the husband is a believer or not (1Peter 3:1). The wife is still to submit to him, even if he BEATS her." (Emphasis mine.)

If a man in GWF has a daughter and he does not want her to get married, then she is to obey him, stay in his house, under his authority. I guess until he dies or she dies. After all, she EXISTS to "help" her father or husband. (Other men? I don't know.)
Of course, they believe a woman should remain silent until a man gives them permission to speak.

A woman should have as many babies as "God" would give them. They should have these babies at home. Doctors are frowned upon. In infants, the first signs of them having a temper, then it's time to bring out the rod. Start as early as possible with the rod because all babies are evil little hearts from the get go. Clothing that allows quick access to the baby's bottom is also recommended. A woman will breastfeed. If the baby isn't doing well feeding, the woman will get a call to tell her that she's wicked for not eating right and instructions on how to correct it. The baby doesn't need to see a doctor.
Children are home schooled and parents are never to use a baby sitter.
Children are not to have toys like stuffed animals, etc. because they are a lie. Bears aren't pink, dogs don't talk, etc. Children are not to have pictures of these lies on their clothing.
A family should not have decorations on the walls of their home. Scripture written on pieces of paper and taped to the walls is fine, though.
If a woman does not "obey" these commands and others, she is no better than a witch is and she is an abomination to God. She is wicked and on her way to hell.
A father and mother should sleep in the same room as all their children. No matter how many. No matter what their ages.
Do you have upaid debt? Better pay it how and when Darwin Fish says. Darwin Fish, on a member who has neglected to pay on his debt. "I am convinced, with all my heart, if you died today, you'd go to hell. I'm convinced. No doubt in my mind, whatsoever. None." MEMBER: "So then, I couldn't get saved until I could repay them somehow. They're closed on Sunday, so I couldn't even get saved today..." Darwin Fish: "...you know what? There is no tomorrow for you. Hell, if you died today, that's where you'd go. I'm convinced. Anyone here have any doubt on this?" This member was kicked out of GWF. (Quotes from tape dated 4-29-00)
GWF has, at least on one occasion, convinced a new member that if they don't fellowship with this group, they will go to hell. This new member has in turn, informed all family and friends that if they don't believe exactly as GWF, on every single issue to be found in the bible, then they are going to hell. This member believes this to be true...God will burn him forever if he leaves GWF.

So, mind control? Brainwashing? Control through guilt? You bet! Control through fear? Excessive control of personal lives? Destroyer of families? You bet! Is this group dangerous? Is this group a cult? From what I've read, seen, and heard, yes. BEWARE!

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Anonymous

Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:34 pm
To Boswell I am the post that directed my post to "You are a crazy bigot". I do believe in God first and foremost but I am not nor will I ever be a member of The True Church. I don't agree with what it teaches or the way it teaches. It is a cult. If good old Al Soto was here he would have a field day with your posts. You would be in hell quicker than you could say it. What is your website? I like your sense of humor.

To Rita, I am very sorry all of this has happened to you and your family. I do pray that one day your son will be able to see he has been taught lies and come home to his family. Don't loose heart and don't stop praying. Anyone seeing what you posted about this group can't deny it's a cult. One thing you posted earlier was not to argue with AL Soto or anyone from the group. You were right, I see it was like beating a dead horse.

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Jean-Paul

Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:31 pm
I think that all right-minded people can agree that Darwin Fish is not a healthy spiritual choice. All the arguments for and against that idea are hereby documented, both in evidences and in arguments. I see nothing else to be said here. I see no reason for anything other than additional evidences of a personal nature that speak to the nature of this group to appear on this board.

Let's move on.

There is, in fact, another group that deserves the excessive attention that has been enjoyed by this one: Family Harvest Church (also on this board).

p.s. let's cool it on the self-righteousness, alright?

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:09 pm
Jean Paul for your future information, not all Christians are self righteous. Just like not all non Christians are self righteous. Just because a person follows the teachings of Christ and speak of the teachings it does not mean they are being "holier than thou". A lot of people have the wrong idea about that. You are not the first person I have heard say that.
I never feel like I am better or more special than anyone else. I only speak what I our Lord has said.
If your boss told you to tell the other employees not to sit on the tables in the office for example, If you told them,it would not make you self righteous or bossy. You would only be doing what your boss told you to do. So even though I am speaking about God, I don't mean to sound self righteous. From your posts you don't sound like you think much of the bible but I do. So instead of saying a person is self righteous when they speak of the bible just give the person the benefit of the doubt and the same respect you would give anyone else.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:21 pm
P.S When you are posting on a forum about a particular church being a cult, you know that the bible is bound to come up sometime in the conversation.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:56 am
Hello everyone. I agree that the Bible and different beliefs will come up even though we are talking about he subject cults. We do get carried away with our personal beliefs which maybe we should set aside to help others. Cults are a horrible thing, i think from reading Rita Bryants letter that her son is definitely in
trouble. anonymous

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Jean-Paul

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:02 pm
If you look closely, you will understand that I was objecting to the language in which one states their belief in the Christian god; I was not criticizing a basal belief in Christianity. Some people on this site come across sounding as though a loud booming voice out of the sky told them to post here. That kind of rhetoric is not only annoying, but counterproductive to the purpose of this site.

I'm sorry if you were offended. However, let's not get into an argument over this, alright? Just accept my apology and move on.

p.s. and if anyone has any bible quotes about loud booming voices in the sky, or anything like that, please keep them to yourself for I will not respond to them.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:54 pm
Well Jean-Paul, you are certainly a little self righteous yourself, feeling you have all the answers. It seems like you would tend to say all churches are cults, is tht right, except perhaps the one you go to, by the way do you have a personal belief in God.You would have us all seeking out the cultish attitudes in every Christian organization. Do you have a personal story about a cult situation, are you writing a book, are you trying to help people, whats the deal. Sam Shields, UPC

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 04:41 am
I'm curious about that myself.
Are you a Christian Jean Paul? Have you or someone you know been in a cult??? Are you a moderator here? You seem to like to take control of the board. Is your job to keep everyone on the subject?

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:03 am
anonymous to Jean=Paul, i too wonder what part you play, too evasive.

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:31 pm
Hello, what ever happened to Darwin Fish and Al Soto and Rita Bryants child. where is truedeciet, he didnot say they did not beat chkldren and wifes. seemslike they got scared when they got some alligatins theywere not ready to defend theirselves. i came on herer because inheard aboutthis, from freind, josh

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No Deceit

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 03:04 am
Mrs Rita Bryant, blasphemer

I really fear for your soul because your post blasphemes the truth of God.

It amazes me, Mam, that you turn a statement of fact and truth (women are to suffer unto death, as ALL Christians are called to do) into a suggestion, that we teach our men to beat their wives.

Please read the following verse:
1 Peter 2:
18 Servants, be **submissive** to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, **but also to the harsh.** 19For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20For what credit is it if, when you are **beaten** for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21**For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[6] leaving us[7] an example, that you should follow His steps**

The Apostle Peter teaches that we are to follow in Christ's steps Who suffered for us and we therefore are to be ready to suffer likewise. Peter in the same breath teaches women to likwise (in like manner of what I just taught servents to be submissive as) be submissive to their husbands.

1 Peter 3
1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives. . .

A woman of faith can win a wicked man, even one who beats her, to Christ. If she dies in the process, she gains eternity. Note, I said a WICKED man, not a saved man, but an unbeliever.

Our men are taught to lay down their lives for their wives, to love them as Christ loved the church, and to dwell with them with understanding.

Mam, you then have the audacity to speak evil of the Apostle Paul when you defame him for stating a fact about the creation of women.

1 Corinthians 11:
8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.

Simple statement, but you Mam, speak evil of this fact. Why? Because you are a wicked and rebellious woman.

Mrs. Rita Bryant states,
"If a man in GWF has a daughter and he does not want her to get married, then she is to obey him, stay in his house, under his authority. I guess until he dies or she dies. After all, she EXISTS to "help" her father or husband. (Other men? I don't know.)
Of course, they believe a woman should remain silent until a man gives them permission to speak."

Yes a godly man in A True Church may choose to keep his virgin a virgin. Once again you speak evil of the truth of God.

1 Corinthians 7:
37Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin,[2] does well. 38So then he who gives her[3] in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better.

I do not know if I should laugh or cry. Your statements are so blantanly false and evil.

Yes, we believe women are to be silent in church. You know why?

1 Corinthians 14
34Let your[1] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Yes, we believe children are a blessing, and, "Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them; They shall not be ashamed, But shall speak with their enemies in the gate."(Psalm 127:5) No shame for us to believe this.

Babies at home- I have three children and they have all been born at the hospital. Doctors have been a blessing to me and my family. Come to think of it, only the Fish family has had their children at home.

Yes, our women breast feed. . .so? As to eating foods and all that you can talk to Casey and Deserie about that.

Yes, we homeschool our children. Praise God! Need we even have to go there? My child won't be taught the homosexual way and "evil"loution.

My kids have many stuffed animals. Uhh, dogs don't talk...Mrs Bryant, do I need to prove this to you?

Decorations on the wall? Uhh, we are not Muslim. I have lot of decorations on our walls.

You state, "If a woman does not "obey" these commands and others, she is no better than a witch is and she is an abomination to God. She is wicked and on her way to hell."

The only commands she is to obey are those taught in Scripture. And I believe I made it clear which ones are commands of God and which ones are not.

My girls sleep in their own room. Our baby is the only one who sleeps with my wife and I.

Yes, Debt is to be paid back, and A.S.A.P. Why?

Psalm 37:21
The wicked borrows and does not repay, But the righteous shows mercy and gives.

and

Romans 13:
7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
(1) 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

The man you refer to (who was a wicked man who did not repay) was not kicked out of the church, but confronted with his sin, he supposedly repented. This man continued in his wicked ways and left the church. He was never kicked out of the church as you state.

Once more Mrs. Bryant you speak evil of Scripture. Most debt is ungodly.

We do not believe that you must fellowship with us to be saved.

We do believe that you must have the same mind, same judgment, in regards to what the Bible teaches.

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Yes, if you do not believe like we do and follow our doctrine you can not be saved.

1 John 4
6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Our doctrine is the same doctrine that Christ preached through His Holy word.

Mrs Rita Bryant, take heed to the truth, repent from your evil, repent from your hate and come to the knowledge of truth. Don't despise the good things of God and do not rely on your own understanding. . .that is folly.

I do thank you for your posts, because I plan to read them to my children along with my response. I thank you for the blessings bestowed on us. It is an honor to partake in the sufferings of Christ.

In His love,

al soto

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No Deceit

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 03:07 am
Sorry, I misspelled Ma'am.

al

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Anonymous

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 05:16 pm
Deceit: u no, u never answered questions, u r the coward
l. do you believe and pratice spanking babies seven months old. Do you keep the spanking area in clothing that makes it more available to spanking.
1. did u throw your own wife out back door.
2. does Darwin fish speak for himself or u are it.
3. are there weapons at Darwin fishes and u house?
4. did you call bryants wife a whore?
if so, is she a whore?
5. are you Jean-Paul?
6.How can u slander Mrs.Bryant like that without her son getting angry.Is he on web, can we talk to him or is he prisoner.
7.has your leader had cps cllled on him for child abuse. I have read all
the posts about this and I think you are attacking because you are afraid.
Afraid of the truth, afraid that u
can c people are arriving at truth.You seem to have it in for women, u better be glad u r not around my house, i would pray to God to cast demons from u. You r possessed by hatred, doubt about yourself and fear that u cant b in control. Wheres darwin fish, doesnt he have a mouth.
5.does darvin fish sleep with his nine kids in one room. is that lie?
6.does darvin fish believe in having more wives if legal.
u know, you sling your crap all over the web, misquoting scriptures out of contest, like the ones above.why dont you really study your bible instead of Darvin Fsh. You r putting a man before God and you will Burn. Repent of calling that woman a whore or prove it. wheres her husband, let him type in , my wife is a whore.
u are sick and perverted . answer the questions posts have asked or stay coward, with the hiding fish.
Josh and Anthony and Brittany,
our mom wanted us to read your posts to show how Satan works in peoples lives and we read all above post too. and we believe u are wicked and hate women,we dontknwo about men.

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No Deceit

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 08:31 pm
I am waiting for Mrs. Bryant's response. Thank you.

al

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Anonymous

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 11:34 pm
Anonymous: Why would Mrs. Bryant have to respond to a total jerk like you al soto. Your post speaks for itself, you can smell the hate over the website, you are in the wrong. You need to repent of a lot of things. You need to answer questions that are asked, coward? You are a coward, and Darwin Fish. You dont answer questions, just want to call names, like blasphamer? Really, lets hear it for the great al soto Christianity, and where is the almighty Darwin Fish? People, do not be deceived by these devils. If they are as horrid as they sound, I beg God for mercy for their souls.

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Anonymous

Friday, October 04, 2002 - 11:48 pm
TO THE POST ABOVE I TOTALLY AGREE.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT BUSINESS AL SOTO HAS SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL AND THE NAME CALLING. WHY IS HE SO BENT ON BEING SO MEAN IF THE SON IS GONE TO THE CULT. IS IT A TEST FOR THE SON, DOES HE HAVE TO READ THESE BAD POSTS ABOUT HIS MOTHER AND DO WHAT? SHOULD YOU NOT TELL HIM TO HONOR HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AS THE BIBLE SAYS?
WHAT ABOUT THE SON? IS HE OK, IS HE HEALTHY, IS HE BEING TREATED PROPERLY, HOWEVER CULTS TREAT PEOPLE.
MRS BRYANT, I AM PRAYING FOR YOUR SONS SAFE RETURN, PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY. HANG IN THERE, THERES A LOT OF PEOPLE ON YOUR SIDE, ON GODS SIDE. MY FRIENDS AND CHURCH MEMBERS WILL BE HEARING ABOUT THIS AND I HOPE THEY ALL PASS THE WORD ABOUT DARWIN FISH AND AL SOTO. ALSO, YOU PEOPLE NEED TO SEND MRS BRYANTS SON HOME.
A MOM

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 04:27 am
I agree completely with the previous posts.
Good ol Al, I knew you would be back. It was only a matter of time. You don't seem to have a very high opinion of women do you? How can you say the things you say to the mother of one of your members and still look him in the eye.
And your little interpretation of scripture caught my eye. It always amazes me how you can twist scripture to suit you. You said a woman of faith can win a wicked man even one who beats her, to Christ. If she dies in the process, she gains eternity.
Duh!!! If she is a woman of faith she gains eternity anyway. I wouldn't stick around and allow someone to beat me to death. I don't think the Lord would want that either. Oh and I'll give you a choice, take your pick.
1 I fear for your soul
2 You blaspheme the word of God
3 Repent
4 You evil witch.
There, I think I made it easy for you to answer me.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 10:51 am
to the above anonymous: Great, wonderful choice of words, i always get so carried away with my vocab.
I love it. Isnt it amazing how Soto is as cunning as a serpent when answering questions about child abuse and other specifics. He really never has made his clear statement on believing that Jesus Christ is the only son of God, I fear for their commune, i am beginning to believe that Fish might be elected as Apostle or Messiah at any time now. Those poor children down there, raised in that atmosphere, and the persons in the cult. How will they ever escape Fishes and Sotos lies. How! Anon

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 11:00 am
SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, EVERYONE OUT THERE, TYPE IT IN, SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, HE BELONGS TO CHRIST, HE HAS BEEN LED ASTRAY. THIS IS SPIRITUAL WARFARE, PRAY FOR CASEY BRYANT, TWENTY YEARS OLD WITH LOVING WIFE AND CHILD. FRIENDS ALL WAITING, CHRISTIAN FREINDS, MOM AND DAD AND FAMILY MEMBERS ALL PRAYING FOR HIS SAFE RELEASE. SEND CASEY HOME, WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP. AT YOUR NEXT MEETING, PROMISE KEEPERS, WE MIGHT SHAKE YOUR HAND, SMILE AT YOU, WE WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU WITH HANDS LAID ON YOU FOR GODS HOLY SPIRIT TO FREE YOU FROM SATANS HOLD ON YOU. AND YOU CAN CALL ME ANYTHING YOU WANT, JUST SEND THAT YOUNG MAN HOME. FRIEND OF CASEY

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 11:10 am
DARWIN FISH IS A COWARD, A BLASPHAMER OF GODS WORD AND HE WILL BURN IN HELL.REPENT DARWIN FISH, SIDEKICKS ALSOTO. YOU WILL BE BURNING IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER, EVERLASTING TORMENT, YOU DEMONS, I CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESUS TO TAKE YOU ALL OUT OF THAT COMPOUND SPIRITUALLY, WE FEAR FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND WOMEN. FRIENDS OF CASEY BRYANTS, SEND CASEY HOME

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 11:21 am
to the above two postings. i have already sent Billy Graham many of the posts and they have replied, also big churches in san jose and sf. they know about fish and have his organ on file.
Lets start a prayer chain for Casey Bryant. Everyone reading this please email 10 churches in the yellow pages or your church or christians to have special prayer for Casey Bryant tomorrow, and then add him to their weekly prayer list and daily prayer lists. Also, if someone wants to fast for him, that would be good. We have to fight spiritually, so get on your computers now. Just simply please put a young man named Casey Bryant on your prayer list tomorrow, try to announce it from pulpits all over Califonia, ask that God return Casey Bryant home. And tell them about the website so that they can warm their loved ones. Please, get on those computers and get those churches and pastors and people notified today. Lets Roll!!!!!!!!!

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 05:32 pm
Hello, i am not able to contact ten churches but will ask for special prayer for Bryants family.
Mr. Al Soto: Why cant this man Casey live with his wife and come there for church. Does he have to live there to belong to Darwins group. If you are interested in keeping the wife in the picture, are you telling him he could be an example by his love by living with her. Do you think he has done a good thing leaving her and her baby?
Does Darvin Fish endorse this moving away from the wife. A Mom and Dad just watching because we were asked to look at website. Are we getting correct story, that Casey Bryant had to move there?

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 05:37 pm
NEW MESSIAH HERE; BAKERSFIELD, DARWN FISH CLAIMS TO BE SAVIOR


IS THIS GOING TO BE A HEADLINE IN TEN YEARS, BEWARE OF SATAN!

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 05:44 pm
SALVATION THRU AL SOTO, RESSURECTED JOHN THE BAPTIST HE CLAIMS!

MAYBE THIS WILL ALSO BE A HEADLINE IN TEN YEARS. PEOPLE BEWARE! PRAY THAT YOU DONT FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THESE EVIL CULT PERSONS. THEY HAVE COMPOUND OUTSIDE BAKERSFIELD. SAVE YOUR CHILDREN FROM THE FUTURE. GET ON THIS WEBSITE AND TELL THEM TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS AND REPENT OR BURN.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 08:40 pm
Rita you see you do have people praying for you and your family. Things will turn around one day. I know you love Casey and he loves you. Don't worry about anything, the Lord will take care of everything.
Contrary to what others may think, he is still in control. I will tell anyone that will listen what this "true church" does to people.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 08:56 pm
To the above message: Thank God for your support, i wish there were some way i knew how to get to you. Bless you! Anonymous friend of Caseys

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 09:49 am
To Al Soto
Dont you think it would be nice if we all just cooled down and talked nicely. I looked at your website and read your atticle, God is a man, now I personally just thought it was a different view from mine, i didnt think it was right but its your article. Have you ever been to some of the Binny Hinn meetings or got some books. Hes really helped me in mine life. I know that the Holy Ghost can bring us all together in His great love, no matter what we believe aside from personal views of the Bible. Lucinda Jackson

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 02:53 pm
YEAH, LETS ALL ROLL!!!!!!!!LETS GO FOR IT AL, LETS GO ROLL WITH BENNY HINN. A FEW OF YOU ALL WITH JIST GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT.BOSWELL BACK FOR THE SABBATH

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 04:38 pm
Thats rude, above message. Binny Hinn is a wonderful man of God. If these people are really in a cult, they need to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, laying on of hands and they will be healed.
They do not mention in their words anything about that. When they are touched with Gods real spirit, they will be filled with love, and all this will stop. If they speak in their heavenly language, they will know the will of God. Mrs. Jackson

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 05:05 pm
AL SOTO,DARWIN FISH, JIMMY SWARRART, MOTEL 7 WIFE SWAPPING.........

DEAR MRS JACKSON; THESE PEOPLE WOULD THROW YOU TO THE DOGS, THEY WILL CALL YOU EVIL, ITS JUST AS REASONABLE TO SEE THE ABOVE WORDS ABOUT MOTEL SEVEN AS IT WOULD FOR TEM TO ACCEPT ANYTHING TO READ LIKE YOURS.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR BEIEFS, I AM NOT AGAINST YOU, I AM IN SPIRITUAL WARFARE FOR WITH FISHY, AND DESOTO AND DAVID, JUST SAW THEM AND HEARD THEM, ON THE WEB...GO THRERE AND YOU WILL SEE FISH DEMONSTRATING AND PUTTING HIS FACE INTO THAT CAMERA, NOT SHY ARE YE BUDDIE RUFF. BARF! THEN THERES THEIR NEWSEST BABY CONVERT, CASEY , CASEY, CASEY, KC.....
HERES A SCRIPTURE FOR YOU IF FISHO WILL LET YOU READ.....HO
1 TIMOTHY 5:8
BUT IF ANY PROVIDE NOT FOR HIS OWN, AND ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF HIS OWN HOUSE, HE HATH DENIED THE FAITH , AND IS WORSE THAN AN INFIDEL.
ARE YOU, YOUNG MAN, PROVIDING FOR YOUR WIFE AND CHILD YOU LEFT FOR FISHTOWN, CASEY. JUST WONDERING, ANSWER, IF YOU DARE, IF NOT, WE WILL KNOW THE ANSWER.

LITTLE FISH, CAN I ASK YOU SOMETHING, DO YOU GET TO READ THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES THAT COME BEFORE AND AFTER DARWINS CHOSEN SCRIPTURE , DOES HE EVEN LET YOU READ WHOLE CHAPTER. I BET YOU GUYS EVEN GIVE YOUR BOYS TAPES TO LISTEN TO IN THEIR SLEEP, GOOD TRAINING OLD MAN SOTO AND FISH. WORKING WHILE YOU SLEEP...FOR SATAN.
FISHITES HUNT AND PICK AND CATCH LITTLE FISHIES WTH THEIR MISTERIOUS INTERPETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD.
BACK TO FISO, HEY FISH, WHY DONT YOU GIVE THESE PEOPLE YOUR ADDRESS INSTEAD OF PO BOX.
AL SOTO, YOU ARE JUST TOOOO SWEET FOR ME, I WOULD RATHER DO WAR WITH BIG FISH, YOU ARE A LITTLE FISH, TOO CHICKEN TO TALK TO ANYONE BUT LITTLE WOMEN LIKE MRS BRYANT .
WHY, WE WILL JUST THROW YOU BACK AND WAIT FOR BIGGER FISH TO FRY IN HELL. IF ONE BELIEVED IN HELL. COUURSE YOU WOULD ALL COLLAPSE IF YOU KNEW THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT HELL, THERE WOULDNT BE FISHITES IF NOT FOR HELL.
AGAIN, MRS JACKSON, SORRY FOR SNOOPING.....BUT THEY WILL HATE YOU, SO HAVE NO MERCY, PLEASE, BOSSSSSSSSS

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 08:45 pm
I am anon: I did go to Darwin Fish website today and I too read some articles. They seem stupid, just plain stupid, how could anyone believe them? Are people actually that immaature spiritually. To the post above, you need your mouth washed out with soap. I am going away. I will ask some churches and friends to pray for Mrs. Bryant. But I am gone. This group is a potental danger if not already. Anon

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 10:42 pm
Hi, this is Kate:
I have been in touch with Rita Bryant on the web and phone. She is a dedicated, wonderful person. A quiet, gentle woman, everything godly the Bible says a woman should be.
Rita has expressed to me personaly that she would like for these letters attacking Mr. Fish, Mr Soto, Casey and all the group would either stop or be less aggressive. She is afraid Casey will be hurt spiritually, emotonally either now or in future. Lets all ask ourselves to keep this subject on a more gentle, Godly manner. She did not ask me to post this.
Thank you.

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Anonymous

Monday, October 07, 2002 - 12:07 am
BOSWELL HERE, SISTER KATE; WILL DO.
MRS. RITA BRYANT; IF YOU NEED ME, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CALL ME AND I WILL BE THERE...
BIG MAC

BRILLIANT, INTELLIGENT, GIGANTIC, MANIAC AGAINST CULTS

GOODBYE, FOR NOW

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Anonymous

Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:37 am
Alright Kate. It shall be as you wish as far as I'm concerned.

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Anonymous

Monday, October 07, 2002 - 09:25 pm
Hi, this is kate, thanks, lets all just keep praying for every person tha is in a potentially dangerous situation. And pray for their families and friends. bye for awhile.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 12:27 am
Visit http://www.MyOwnMind.com

Share your story there.

It's a cool, thought provoking site.

Enjoy.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 06:14 pm
Anonymous: Al Soto, which Bible do you use to find scriptures. I read your posts and i just do not see that in the scriptures. If I read the same Bible, maybe I can understand where you are coming from.

Guest Ace: What happened to you.

Jean Paul: Did you give up, dont you think we should at least read Sotos Bible.

Boswell: Do not care for you. Where do you get the nerve?

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Guest Ace

Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 06:41 pm
For the benefit of those still reading, let me say that I have not returned to this site very often. The strife that is engendered here is not healthy. And lest the burden all be laid at the feet of the 'blasphemers' (as 'No Deceit' seems to do), I will simply say that groups such as this one, that separate themselves are (according to scripture) sensual. The truth is certainly in short supply on the earth, I won't deny that. But one has to test the spirits and I don't find the spirit of Christ abiding here or on ATrueChurch.

Two things that stand out now. First, on the issue of debt, this group is ready to lay into a man for having heavy debt and not repaying. As I recall, the man was seriously reprimanded if not booted for having 'evil' (Soto's words) debt. I don't disagree that debt makes one the slave of the lender, but Jesus Christ would not have acted as they did. At least, not if the parable of the man who owed a large debt has any bearing. By acting as the servant who was forgiven a large debt, they heap judgement on themselves. Instead, why not bear the debtor's burdens with Him? This fulfill's Christ's law. Even Christ Himself said this:

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."
Matthew 5:42

So such an attitude towards a debtor is a suspect one. But it goes further than that.

Jesus also said this:

" Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Matthew 5:43,44

This in NO WAY justifies those who curse and rail this man. However, Jesus said that those who are His will do His will (because they love Him), and His will is not to return curse for curse, but to bless even those who curse. To do good for them that spitefully use you. And if you look at the TrueChurch site, you find that they are into charging others with false doctrine and defending themselves. The true disciple does not defend himself nor Christ.

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
Matthew 5:39

"Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile.
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
...
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. "
I Peter 3:9-11, 4:8

I don't see an attempt to use charity even with their own. There is no apparent attempt to live at peace, but to exchange guile for guile, casting around the blaspheming charge with reckless abandon. This does not seem to me to be in line with I Peter 3:15 which requires an answer in meekness and fear REGARDING THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU. The chapter continues and shows that if all that is done (seeking peace, walking without guile or curse, exchanging blessings for others' curses) then they are walking according to Christ's law and shall receive the reward promised to His own.

You see, while they know the scriptures reasonably well, and have some solid understanding, the fruit is not good. They do need prayer. But I don't see how continual debate does any good. That is why I do not return here often. I had said I was leaving permanently, but am answering for the benefit of those who may lurk and those who are earnest in their seeking. If by my posts, some may be helped, then the Lord will see to it. If not, it is not well for me to continue here.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 10:57 pm
You are a bunck of nuts.Because of people like you, religioun is losing the respect of the masses. You all are going to be accountable for what you have done to harm our world. you have degraded the holy things to the level of freaking psychocults and fanatic blabery.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:44 am
I agree Guest Ace. There is no use arguing here. It will do no good. I have read these posts. And alot of them are just useless information like the above post.
Darwin Fish and the people in his church need prayer. I think that would be the best thing to do for them. Prayer is a powerful thing. Fighting will accomplish nothing.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:21 pm
Guest Ace, i appreciate you answering and i saw the one response. I think that the hatred in the response is from Darwin Fish, Al Soto, his cult or another cult. So, I believe it is good that you answered so that we can actually feel in our hearts the difference between love and hate message. Yours comes across as love, with strength in the power of the Holy
Spirit, unfornately, their post does not.
You are doing good, with your love message which meaches all people. People do respond to love message instead of hate.
I like your scriptures which bring peace, grace, and hope to people.
Question: Since their message is based pm hell, fear, damnation, and that most people, if not all but them will burn eternally in hell, and they only seem to pick scriptues that talk about hate and hell, is there any way to respond to this type of message? I read their scriptures, but to me, this is not
Gods message. I serve God because I love Him. He is a God of Love, Salvation, Redemption, and then I have the promise of eternal life with Him, I dont fear hell, it has no waiting place for me. But their mission is to fill hell with Christians?
As far as I know, they have no outreach to people who do not know about God? I guess what i am trying to say is what is the best way to fight against the use of hunt and pick Bible verses that say we are all going to hell? We are all blasphamers if we do not belong to their group? its hard to fight scripture with scripture or is that the right way? Joy

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:08 pm
It's really best not to argue with this group at all. There are over a hundred posts on this forum. Most of the posts have been directed to Al Soto and his group. Of all those posts not one of them has really made a difference. Although there has been a lot of truth spoken, it has not changed a thing. No one has said anything that has made this group say they understand or that they were wrong. You can use scripture but it will make no difference.
As far as being told you are a blasphemer, or that you are going to hell, forget it.
Christ alone can know your heart. Not any man. Say what you feel but as far as arguing don't waste your time. Sometimes it's best to leave things to God.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:37 pm
anonymous: Joy
Hey, I found a lot of stuff i was looking for by doing this:
type in
A TRUE CHURCH-DARWIN FISH
i used MSN
then when you get there it will be
The FAQ , scroll down to number 4
photos, letters about fishes past, information on thier group, lots of stuff, answered a lot of my questions.
To the above post: you have been a good friend. I have personal stake in this so i want the word out....it does not help to argue scripture, i defintely know that, i only hope to help those potential members to make up their own minds or to help people understand the group more. Darwin Fish obviously was not first, he learned all this from a Rick Meisel, you will see all this..amazing.
I would personally like to see Al Soto turn around and all the group and use their strengths to preach the Good News and am praying this will happen. I would like to tell Al Soto to ask God to open his eyes to the truth, get out of this group before its out of hand like Waco Texas, etc. He seems to really believe what he says, He could be like Paul, thrown off his horse and see Jesus for what he really is, Love, not hate. His whole life could change, his families life, lets pray this happens for him and all members of that group. thanks

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 04:09 pm
joy you are freaking nut. get off it.
or whatever you are calling yourself today. Coward!

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 05:37 pm
Who are all you people, soto delights in seeing his name so must be Mr. Fish.
Did he read that verse about taming the tongue was hardest thing to do? Anoymous John.

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 11:31 pm
Well, my name is Joy, not my real name and I am praying for Al Soto, he is someone I have written to in the past. I just have a burden for him. So thats who I am. Hope all you out there will pray for him too.

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Anonymous

Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:23 am
casey, I feel sorry for you. Most of all I feel sorry for the family you abondoned. Your responsibilities as a father do not cease to exist because you joined this church. Any church that condones your behavior is really a church of the devil. "The great and abonimidable Whore". You have been deceived, and your leader is dragging you to a fate that you don't deserve. I hope that you will be able to forgive yourself.

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 11:10 pm
One

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TheTruth

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 06:22 am
A SIMPLE PROOF OF the FALLACY of "A True Church"

To:Al Soto/NoDeceit et al)

To quote you from above:

We do believe that you must have the same mind, same judgment, in regards to what the Bible teaches.

1 Corinthians 1
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Yes, if you do not believe like we do and follow our doctrine you can not be saved.


No where does this or any other verse state that one cannot be saved if he does not believe
like we do and follow our doctrine
. This is a classic cult scare tactic. In fact, it's quite the usual "carrot or the stick" fear tactic, the likes of "Agree with us or you're goin' to hell."
In fact, these half-truths are exactly what Satan has used from the beginning. You should have quoted more of that scripture:
(1 Corinthians 1:10-13 RSV)
"I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chlo'e's people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apol'los," or "I belong to Cephas," or "I belong to Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? "

Paul condemned no one with these words, but admonished them to simply be of one accord and not divided. He says nothing about the state of their salvation if they continue to quarrel about it. You used the first part of those verses "out of context" to support your claim, also a classic half-truth tactic used by some for persuation (hmn, I recall Satan doing that...)

Simple Proof that your belief is wrong:
(Luke 23:39-43 MKJV)
"And one of the hanged criminals blasphemed Him, saying, If you are Christ, save Yourself and us. But answering, the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are in the same condemnation. And we indeed justly so, for we receive the due reward of our deeds, but this Man has done nothing amiss. And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

It's resonable to conclude that many people here on earth have come to Christ in a similar situation as the second thief, albeit more likely from a deathbed. Some, who, like that thief, have come to know something of who Jesus was and what he did, but failed to live their lives being saved because of their lack of faith in Christ and lack of repentance. The bible cleary states the necessities for salvation as 1)confession of Christ and 2)true repentance (Mat_3:2; Mat_18:3; Mat_19:16-21; Mat_24:13; Mar_1:4; Luk_3:8; Luk_14:25-33; Luk_18:18-26; Joh_3:3-12; Joh_3:14-18; Joh_5:24; Joh_6:28; Joh_6:29; Joh_6:47; Joh_9:35; Joh_11:25; Joh_11:26; Joh_12:36; Joh_20:31; Act_2:38; Act_3:19; Act_3:23;)

Are we to assume that since many of these people (including the second thief) may not have the chance to even read your beliefs or doctrine (what you would call our bible), that they are all damned ? Jesus cleary affirms the contrary. His acceptance of the theif into paradise proves that the thief repented, and the thief's own words show he accepted Christ as Lord. This was all that was needed. Jesus didn't say, "Wait a minute, what do you think about women speaking in Church" or something of the like.

Your posts have the spirit of satan, filled with half-truths and completely accusatory. Since you quote Paul so much, take a lesson from him. Paul "corrected" the bretheren, he did not "condemn" them.

And to answer some of your earlier posts (What makes a church a cult ?)

*When you tell people they are going to hell unless they believe what _you_ say and _your_ doctrine, supported by half-truths
*Accusations of blashphemy towards anyone who disagrees with you(supported by more half-truths).
*Focus on Legalism - you have imparted that in almost every post.
*Use of scare tacticts to promote membership


Remember, Jesus gave us two commandments which basically sum up the entire bible: (Deu_6:5; Mat_22:37;)And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets. (Matthew 22:37-40 ASV)

I don't argue that the gift of discernment is something every Christian should pray for, which is basically what you all claim to focus on.
However, your focus on the letter of the law and people's salvation contradicts your statement that your focus is to uncover lies. It's clear your focus is to condemn others, either by their ignorance or by the combination of the latter and your overpowering use of scripture taken out of context.


Here are a few verses that describe your posts and what one can only assume reflects your true beliefs:
Prov 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
Prov 20:3 It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; but every fool will be quarreling.

Advice to anyone considering joining "A True Church":
Prov 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving.
Prov 14:15 The simple believes everything, but the prudent looks where he is going.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:48 pm
To The Truth
You have spoken the truth and you have done it beautifully. As someone said once before, quoting part of the scripture and
ignoring the rest is like telling half the story. Beware of any church that states
you are going to hell if you don't completely agree with it. God is the only one that knows your heart. Pointing fingers and condemning is not the way. On that great day of the Lord, many will be surprised. For many that think they will inherit eternity will not. And some that others said wouldn't inherit eternity, will. Don't be deceived. God will not be mocked. For whatsoever a man soeth that shall he also reap.
Some believers are like the Pharisees. All puffed up with pride. They condemn others if they are not just like them. They have to dress a certain way, wear they hair a certain way or eat certain foods. They say if you don't think exactly like they do you will go to hell. IF you break the law you will burn. But in Jesus's day he called people like that hypocrites. Woe to you hypocrites Take the log out of your own eye before you take the speck out of your brother's.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:55 pm
We really enjoyed the above posts, thanks for the scriptures and truths.
We are here and reading, keep up the good word. anonos

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Anonymous

Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:05 am
True

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No Deceit

Friday, October 18, 2002 - 01:04 pm
THE UNITY OF THE SAINTS

It is an amazing phenomenon, yet a present reality, that so many who claim to believe the Bible (and claim to love the truth) also conveniently find room for so much error (contrary to Psalm 119:104 & 128). It is as if John had never penned 1 John 4:6,

We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Christianity is the one and only true religion (John 14:6). Any and every other religion is false and leads to hell (Psalm 9:17; Revelation 22:15). Anyone with at least somewhat of a Biblical understanding recognizes this. Yet, when it comes to the myriad of denominations within what is called "Christianity", people typically hail many, most, or all of these denominations as legitimate assemblies of the church of God. Yet, the very reason they exist, is because they cannot agree about doctrine (i.e. what the Bible teaches). They cannot agree to hear (1 John 4:6) one another.

For an example of the myriad of "Christian" denominations, we have - American Baptist Churches, Apostolic Churches, Assemblies of God churches, Association of General Baptist churches, Association of Reformed Presbyterian churches, Baptist Bible Fellowship churches, Berean Fundamental Churches, Brethren in Christ churches, Brethren churches, Calvary Chapel churches, Christian Churches, Christian Reformed Churches, Church of Christ churches, Church of God churches, Church of the Brethren churches, Church of the Living God churches, Church of the Nazarene churches, Church on the Rock churches, Community Churches, Congregational Christian Churches, Congregational Methodist churches, Conservative Baptist Association churches, Conservative Congregational Churches, Evangelical Congregational Churches, Evangelical Covenant Churches, Evangelical Free Churches, Evangelical Methodist Churches, Faith Christian Fellowship churches, Fellowship of Grace Brethren churches, Free Methodist Church of North America churches, Free Will Baptist churches, Friends (Quakers) churches, Full Gospel Churches, Fundamental churches, General Association of Regular Baptists churches, General Association of Separate Baptists churches, Independent Baptist Churches, Independent Bible Churches, Independent Charismatic churches, Independent Fundamental Churches, International Foursquare Gospel churches, Maranatha Christian Churches, Mennonite Churches, Methodist churches, Missionary Churches, National Baptist churches, Open Bible Standard Churches, Pentecostal churches, Plymouth Brethren churches, Presbyterian churches, Presbyterian Church in America churches, Presbyterian Churches (USA), Primitive Baptists churches, Primitive Methodist Churches, Progressive National Baptists churches, Protestant Reformed Churches, Reformed Church in America churches, Southern Baptist Convention churches, Southwide Baptist Fellowship churches, Union of Messianic Jewish Congregation churches, United Baptists churches, United Brethren in Christ churches, Vineyard Churches, Wesleyan Churches, World Baptist Fellowship churches,

. . .and on and on it goes, churches upon churches who cannot "hear" one another (1 John 4:6). And, if and when they do "cooperate" (in some form), they set their differing doctrines off to the side, rather than come to any kind of a Biblical solution. Such is the making of ecumenicalism with its varying degrees and manifestations.

Contrary to any ecumenical mindset, Jude writes in Jude 3,

Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

What is to be contended (fought) over? Jude says "the faith". Paul gets more specific and says,

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of christ, (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

"Every thought" is to be fought over. Every thought, every doctrine, every teaching, all of it, is to be subjected to and taken captive to the "obedience of Christ" (i.e. obedient to the Word of God; Christ being the Word, John 1:1; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13). This is what Jude exhorts every saint to do ("Beloved", Jude 3).

But how can this be done? There are so many differing views on what the Bible says! How could there be any unity in any assembly of believers, or any unity between assemblies (churches), if "every thought" is fought over? Apparently, we cannot have such a unity and therefore "know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6)? We can (and do) by the power of the Spirit of God.

In 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 Paul writes,

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free - and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 further states,

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God is in every true believer, and every true believer has "been made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:13). His Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of truth (John 14:16-17), resides within every single follower of Christ. Because of this, those who have the Spirit of God (the Spirit of truth) are taught by God and they know the truth. As John says,

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, (1 John 2:20-21)

And,

These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 John 2:27)

This "anointing" (the Holy Spirit who teaches us "all things" - 1 John 2:27/John 14:26) is in every true believer. And, it is because of this, that there can be, and is, a unity of the saints in doctrine (i.e. what the Bible teaches), even unto "every thought" (2 Corinthians 10:3 5).

Jesus, speaking of Himself and those who follow Him, said,

And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5)

And,

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (John 10:27)

Jesus says that His sheep (i.e. true believers) will follow Him (i.e. will follow the truth, John 14:6), and they will not follow a stranger (i.e. someone speaking contrary to the truth). When the truth is present and a lie also, the sheep will follow the truth. Why is this? Because they know His voice (they know the one they are following), and they have His Spirit residing in them teaching them "all things" ("every thought", 2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

This does not mean that perfect knowledge is ever attained (1 Corinthians 13:9), nor does it mean that believers will never be "tossed to and fro" by the winds of doctrine that abound (Ephesians 4:14). But, what it does mean, is that those who know their God, those who have the Spirit of truth in them, will be taught by God, and will take heed (as a pattern of their life, 2 John 9; 1 John 2:3-4) to the truth. They may struggle with issues. They may grope and cry out for wisdom (Proverbs 2). But, the Lord will hear (James 1:5). The Lord will direct them into all truth (John 14:26/1 John 2:27 - "all things"). As Proverbs 3:5-6 states,

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths.

So, why all these denominations then? Why all the confusion within "Christianity" about doctrine and what the Bible teaches? Why does it appear that "Christians" cannot agree on what the Bible says? Because not all are "of God" (1 John 4:6).

Satan deceives the whole world (Revelation 12:9), and he is fast at work within the camp of "Christianity" (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). Divisions do not come from those with the Spirit of truth in them. Divisions come from those who are devoid of the Spirit, as Jude exemplifies. Speaking of ungodly men, he writes,

These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. (Jude 19).

If all people who claimed to be Christians (1 Peter 4:16) were truly Christians (and therefore had the Spirit of God within them, Romans 8:9/Ephesians 1:13 14), there would be no divisions. There would be no denominations. There would be no sustained differing doctrines. But such is not the case.

The world is filled with false brethren (2 Corinthians 11:26) and false teachers (2 Peter 2:1). In fact, the Lord told us beforehand that this would be the case. That is, that "Christians" would prefer false teachers. As He says in 2 Timothy 4:3,

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

Because of this, and because of the "heap" of teachers that scratch the ears, Peter wrote that "the way of truth will be blasphemed"(i.e. spoken evil of). In other words, the way of truth will be looked at NOT as the way of truth, but as the way of error (or evil). As Paul wrote in his own day, "as deceivers, and yet true" (2 Corinthians 6:8; Such is the perception of most who view us).

Yet, for those who are in the way of truth (who have the Spirit of God, the Spirit of truth in them), for them 1 John 4:6 is very much alive. Why is this? Because they live in and walk in the truth of God's Word. For them, they live, trust, and depend upon "every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4). Their authority and trust is in the revealed Word of God, and they follow it, and live it, and speak it. Those who also have the Spirit of God in them and live likewise, "hear" (1 John 4:6). Those devoid of the Spirit and who do not have their trust in "every word" (Matthew 4:4) don't hear (i.e. they don't agree). Therefore, those who are in the truth can know "the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."

The crux of the issue on any controversy is always this: Who is speaking the truth? Who is Biblical, and who is not? On any controversy, either one person (or position) is in the truth and the other is not. Or, they are both in error.

No doubt, anyone could be temporarily wrong (in error) on a subject. But, who do they listen to when such is the case? Those in error (or their own understanding, their own self-made deceit), or those in the truth (1 John 4:6). The one who is unwilling to consent to "wholesome words" (1 Timothy 6:3) is the one who is proud and destitute of the truth (1 Timothy 6:4-5).

Furthermore, there may also be a controversy that is based upon something the Bible does not even give information on. Thus Paul told Timothy to "avoid foolish and ignorant disputes" (2 Timothy 2:23). To argue (contend) over issues that the Bible does not even give the answer to is foolish and ignorant. Such men who insist on contending over such issues are to be warned twice, and if they don't take heed they are to be rejected (Titus 3:9-11).

Now, there are those who desire to give the impression that the truth cannot be known on what the Bible teaches on what some call "secondary issues" (e.g. limited atonement, election, eternal security, etc.). In other words, issues that the Bible does address, but there are many varying opinions from scholarly "godly" men. Many contend that such subject matters should not be a distinguishing mark between true and false brethren. In fact, to do so is "dangerous" in most "Christians" eyes.

This was exemplified in a recent letter (8-16-96) received (via the internet) from David Newell (Jerubaal@aol.com) in which David stated in response to this very issue stating, "It is this line of thinking which is so very dangerous and unscriptural." (i.e. to distinguish between true and false brethren over "secondary issues"). What this man is saying is this: It is dangerous and unscriptural to apply 1 John 4:6 ("He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error."). And, he is saying that it is dangerous and unscriptural to apply 1 Timothy 6:3-5.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, . . . destitute of the truth . . . from such withdraw yourself.

If it is "dangerous and unscriptural" to contend (fight, Jude 3) over "secondary issues" ("every thought" 2 Corinthians 10:3-5), and thus distinguish between "the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6), then the war is over (2 Corinthians 10:3-5; Ephesians 6:10-18). And, for men like David Newell, it is. He cannot distinguish between "the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" (1 John 4:6). He exemplified this by stating in this same letter,

You [Al Soto] and your Pastor Darwin Fish have developed what seems to be a ministry where you search out and expose the errors of teachings of self professing Christian writers, speakers and TV personalities. In your zeal you have handled topics of a controversial nature (not a big problem) but also in which good men have valid, scriptural, dissenting view.

In this statement, David reveals that he does not know the truth, and is unable to distinguish between the "spirit of truth and the spirit of error". Just because a subject matter is "controversial" does not mean it can't be rightly Biblically known and understood. David calls these men "good men". The only "good men" we have exposed are rank false teachers. Men who damn souls (see our past Sojournals for documentation). David cannot distinguish between a "good" man and an impostor (2 Timothy 3:13). Who is really "dangerous and unscriptural"?

The kind of mentality that David Newell protrays is the kind of damning mentality that diverts people away from a zealous pursuit and love for the truth (Christ, John 14:6). You cannot be saved, if you do not love the truth (The Lord condemns those who do "not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10)

Therefore, "every thought" IS important! Not because we are saved because we have all of our theology perfected, but, we are saved because our trust is in God (in His Word, in Christ). Thus, we speak the truth, and we cannot only know the truth, but "know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error" by whether they "hear us" or not (1 John 4:6). And, by the grace of God, we are hereby also protected from being led away into the "error of the wicked" (2 Peter 3:17) via a zealous love for God and His Word ("every word", Matthew 4:4).

By the way, if someone is led into the "error of the wicked", which is simply being led away from the truth (note 2 Peter 3:16-17), which is simply being lead away from Christ (Christ being the Truth), then such a one would be found to be among those who do not remain in Him (2 John 9). Those who do not remain in Christ will be burned (John 15:6). Knowing and loving the truth (all that can be known and loved) is important (Isaiah 66:1-2; Philippians 2:12)!

With the above in mind, it should be seen that those who love God, those who love His people, do (and will) consider it a serious matter to contend for the faith and bring "every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ". Because they love His Word (Psalm 119:97), and they love His people (1 John 3:14), those who are the saints of God Most High (Genesis 14:20; Daniel 7:27) will not only have a true and blessed unity (doctrinal indeed), but will endeavor to keep this unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (Ephesians 4:3).

The unity is there, because the Spirit is there. Without the Spirit, doctrinal unity would be impossible. But since He does reside in every true believer, there is unity. What muddies these waters are the false brethren who are devoid of the Spirit. But, nonetheless, the reality is there, just as Jesus prayed it would be.

I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (John 17:20-21).

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Anonymous

Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:53 pm
to the above posts: you left out your name in the above long list of churches that dont agree with you, nor you with them. I know you will say,
1 John 4:6 We are of God, he that knoweth God hears us, he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby we know the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of error...
All churches can say they are of God and if you dont listen to them, you are not of God.
So, just because you use this verse a lot does not mean it belongs to you exclusively. I know you will say it does, because you will say, we have the truth, but no....another church will say ....we have the truth.
Concerning secondary issues: Who chooses secondary issues? I agree that quarreling over scriptures is not profitable....is it.......
Concerning devision, I have a problem with your unity theory, seens like there is a lot on devision in Jesus time, Pauls time, they did not start calling them false prophets and throw them out of church....
Peter got several diverse problems as a disciple. He was rebuked by Jesus several times, going on to somehow being saved....and loved by Christ.
Paul and church members had problems, they did not get kicked out,
Jesus disciples told him people were teaching his news and Jesus said, leave them alone......
I believe in one God too, but He exist for more than 18 people on a hillside in Bakersfield. Can you tell me if I am going to Hell if I dont believe everything you believe, minus secondary beliefs.
Your mission of your church seems to be sending people to Hell. Why in the world do you want to live like that when you could have a mission to spend eternity in Heaven with those that believe in God.
Why not choose Life with Jesus Spirit running thru your veins than Hell and burning, why the glass half full, to be different from other churches, to make yourselves, Hell filler uppers...\
I dont understand your perception of the Word of God. It is an abundant, glorious way to live, I cannot bear the thoughts of you all waiting to committ one more sin and then you will burn. That is so wrong. There is so much pride in that, you are hurting Jesus Christ and His Crucification and Ressurection power. You cannot accept grace and the happiness that goes with it. Does that mean we go on sinning, no....it just means we are saved by grace, not of works, lest a man should boast. Now we will not want to sin, but we will and we will be forgived. No keeping of a set of rules will keep you saved, its only the free gift of the grace of God. Even the faith that we have to believe in God comes from God.
I beseech all of you, be not deceived by the post above, i beleive i will spend an eternity with this person in heaven, i believe he is a Christian, but i refuse to spend time on earth with their beliefs, for they are carnal minded and Jesus weeps for them always, i am sure.
Beware of Darwin Fish and The True Church They are unlearned and could be a dangerous cult someday if they dont get some serious spiriutal counseling. My hope for them is that they will read between their wonderful scriptures and find the truth, the whole truth will set you free.
Free to love God, Free to read His Word and serve Him according to His Spirit and Word, Free to go to Heaven without belonging to one church run by Darwin Fish.
Please, for you first time readers go to
his web site and read some of his stuff.
The only thing we have to do is beieve on Him and we shall be saved. And then we will want to do His Will and His Word. We do not have to be whipped with Hell scriptures to serve God.. We do not....
serving God is a wonderful, fun experience, full of joy and life , growing like a baby to a child, a child to a young adult, a young adult to a senior....Jesus
wants us to be Happy, Happy, Happy.
So smile awhile and give yourself a rest!

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Guest Ace

Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:05 am
No Deceit,

You are right...truth and error are separate. It is true that they do not fellowship well together. You are also right in speaking of accepting and rejecting truth. A little leaven spoils the whole lump. And the spirit of truth has no fellowship with the spirit of error. However, where you err, is your focus on men. You claim on the one hand that truth is absolute, that it is Christ. You also say that there is a spirit of truth that cannot fellowship a spirit of error. What you do not highlight is that a spirit of error is not discernible by merely intellectual means. You tout the spirit of truth and the spirit of error, and then turn and show how "A True Church" is right. Your substitution of "A True Church" for "The Truth" is more denominationalism.

You have said that Christianity is the only true religion, but then turned and listed umpteen Christian denominations as being in error. This contradicts your proposition. What you should have said is the only true religion is Christ. Only those that worship God truly in spirit are His. Not those who belong to a given group. You are so intent on labelling false teachers (so-called) that you point to flesh. Flesh cannot lead to spirit. If you believe that "A True Church"'s personal charges against other men leads men into truth, then you must consider that leading away from an error does not lead into truth. Can you convince another that yours is not another 'itching ear' type group? No. That can only be done in spirit.

Praising your Father in Heaven is something bystanders should be doing - because of your words and good works. But when you point to other men, how can they do so?

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 06:35 pm
"What you should have said is the only true religion is Christ. Only those that worship God truly in spirit are His. Not those who belong to a given group."

Christ is not either "the only true religion" but it is a sect that evolved from Judaism. The simple truth is that there is no only true religion, but there is religion freedom and anyone can claim to be a member of the "only true religion" while such statement will not affect the freedom of the others who claim the same. It is quite a house of craziness, where all think they are the only true ones while the others are liars. There is a miracle that has not occured in any of the books that the religions have raised as "the only true books" and this miracle is: a day of peaceful coexistence among the religions, without needing to step on the different beliefs to be "right" in front of our own deity, whatever that deity may mean for each of us.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:13 pm
To the above post: Very Good, but the group/cult we are exposing, talking about on this site is Darwin Fish who says that his church is the only true church. And he and his group will tell you that those who do not believe exactly as they do are going to hell. As we know, this is a sign of a cult. Christ is the only religion...very true. We also believe in co-existing with any, all beliefs in this USA, but not when they spiritually kidnap our young, beat the women, beat the babies, control the minds, change Christianity to exactly what No Deceit, Al Soto, Darwin Fish believe. They dont think anyone has been truly saved since the time of apostles....except them, and then, they might backslide if they sin twice....then off to hell with them.....
Glad to hear from you and always from Ace Guest.
Thanks to you two for defending the true armor of God. anonilites

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 09:30 pm
No Deceit is Al Soto. Check out his previous posts.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:17 pm
My question to Mr Soto is why is it your church is absolutely right and every other church is false. What great truth does the "The True Church" have that has been left out of everyone elses's bible? How is it that throughout the entire world your small group of people are the only ones living today that know the truth?
Is there any church today besides yours that is teaching the truth? If so which one.

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:05 pm
If Soto and Fish decide they have the gumption to answer, they will say, we do not know of any other church besides a true church, that is teaching their truth, threfore, only one not burning kristpie kreamers.....anonyos

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Anonymous

Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:06 pm
I have read some of the Darwin Fish stuff on the computer and it really seems different. He seems to be filled with hatred for churches in general. I dont see that they have ever offered a general salvation plan for anyone. What about that, anyone know if they actually get saved there? Also, he seems to have come out of another church where he went to for years. I wonder if all this is a vandetta against that group? wondering Sam

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NoDeceit

Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 07:33 pm
All you "insightful" anonymous people can get all their questions answered by calling 661-822-1222

al

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 05:24 am
If you took the time to write the above post Mr Soto, you could have answered the question also.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:20 pm
To the above post, Deceit only wants to argue and the only right way is Fish way.
Fish did come out of a church where he caused discord and was rebuked and kicked out for sabotoging the message of that paricular church. Going behind the pastors back and telling people the church was wrong when he still belonged to that church. Like his waving of signs at big meetings, only this was done, whisper, whisper , whisper to new people and new converts. Lets pray that Mr Soto will see Darwin Fish for what he truly has been, a mad, mean person who cannot accept the deity of our Lord and Savior dying to pave a wave for us to have salvation thru grace in our lives. Mrs. Anono

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 09:29 pm
Mr Soto
So what relationship do have with Mr Fish?
Are his beliefs totally yours or can you think for yourself? Why is he never on the web? He only has his stuff on there, never here. Are you and him very close friends, when he says something, is that the law, or can you discuss issues with him.

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Anonymous

Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 01:37 pm
A true church is not a church at all. Its just a meeting with a few guys. The guys give their money to Fish, which he is building a big house on his acreage. When he gets mad at one of them, he just throws them out and starts with new convert. I wonder if he will still have the church meeting after his house is paid for in cash. anonymous

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Anonymous

Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:46 pm
Al, This is the Lords day and I am praying for you to see Him in all His fulness and glory. Anonymous

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Anonymous

Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:36 pm
#1

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Anonymous

Monday, October 28, 2002 - 07:55 pm
Hi Al:
Just wanted to say I am thinking of you and want you to know that I believe you know after all this time that Darwin Fish is not the right leader. I just dont see why you can't have your own group. He does not do anything anyway, hes got you doing all his work while he kicks back at the acreage with the nine kids and wife, you should have it so goood. Think about it, your work compared to his, physical and mental, how do you do it? How do you not start your own group? its me

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 01:43 pm
Morning Al:
You know, I think I will give up on you, you are never going to change. You are going to wake up one morning and say, what have i wasted my life on? I have been getting bro Fishes crumbs when i could have been feasting with Jesus. I feel so bad for you and others, my heart goes out to people who can't live their spiriutal lives with Jesus as the center of thier life. Try to take this to heart, get out while you are young. Get started on a level of real Christ like living without Pastor Fish influence.

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No Deceit

Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 07:38 pm
What is really sad is how foolish you all sound. Ohh, how you hate wisdom and truth.

You rest upon gossip and half-truths about us, and you attack the person instead of the doctrine, because that is all you can attack. Your churches are not teaching you to love the truth nor do you know it.

BTW: Darwin's house is paid with cash, his cash. He is not in debt like most coveteous people are. I must laugh :), it is funny how our story changes day by day. Anyhow, continue spreading the stories, we are blessed by the slander.

al

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Anonymous

Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 09:21 pm
How old is Al Soto and Darwin Fish?

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Anonymous

Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 07:59 pm
No Deceit, I am amazed that you put a happy face on for us.....heres a hand clap for you......keep it us.......!
Are you being as cunning as a serpent when you say Mr Fishes house and land is paid for with his own money. Does he have a job outside his house? I think you are saying his money is his money he works for having his group. As for covetous thinking, I guarantee you there is nothing he has that I want or anyone thats sane. You should read the scriptures clearer. How can anyone stay on doctrine when yours is totally, totally non God, mean, cruel, prideful, insanely prideful as a matter of fact. Satan has a hold on Darwin Fish and is using him to send Christians to hell, according to his words, not Gods.

To the above posts, there are a lot of articles and photos of Darwin Fish on the internet, protesting in motion and still photos. You will know the truth when you read his articles, such as the one, God is a Man. I just cant believe how scriptures can be twisted so much, God must be shaking his head in total dismay.
These guys are about forty. According to their literature passed out at functins, Darwin Fish has a wife and now has nine kids and is forthish, I believe Al Soto is also, according to photos only. They are defintiely a harmful cult in that they teach no one, maybe a few....a few....people are going to make it to heaven since St Paul....except for their group of course. If you need help finding articles and photos and stuff, just say, and i will lead you to it. Please pray for this group. With the energy they put into sending people to hell, just think of all the good they could do. Mrs. Anonymous

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Anonymous

Friday, November 01, 2002 - 01:43 pm
To the above person, from all the letters that are on here, its seems there could be a lot of physcial abuse to wives and children. Do you know if the women and children are safe? Are these people hetersexual people, or do you know. I got some literature from their group also and am concerned that we should expose them as a spirually unfit sect that could explode. I am thinking of the woman in Texas who drowned her five babies. I wonder if the women in this group are under this demonic influence as she was. What do you know out
there? Lets stop this before it happens.

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Anonymous

Friday, November 01, 2002 - 04:29 pm
To the second post above this one. Thank you for the info. I have read A True Church website. Including "God is a Man" and "God kills". But I would like to see what someone else besides Al Soto has to say about this church. What is the best website to get that information?
And to the above post, Al Soto has been asked before about if this group punishes children as young as seven months. But he has never answered. If this groups punishes infants, I would be surprised if he admitted it.

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 11:41 pm
To the above post, Darwin Fish is the leader, he has yet to speak for himself. Al Soto is his second in command, i gather. Those articles are written by Darwin Fish. Darwin Fish does punish his children physically. Al Soto has yet to deny that he boasted that he threw his wife out the back door. Darwin Fish sleeps in the same room as his whole family of nine kids and wife. He must be fearful of the men or people living in his house, yet when we women dont want to give our names, we are called fearful...hmmm...Personally, I think that sleeping in the same room with a teen girl and eight other kids is a bit sick? Also, someone questioned that they were not allowed to decorate their walls, Al Soto said his walls were decorated, yet the question was answered again by Al Soto, Darwin Fish has scritures only posted on his walls. His babies are punished when small, the woman are told to dress babies where bottoms are assebile to spankings. There are stories, maybe falsehoods that sticks are used in these spankings. But that is worrisome.
If you will read both Rita Bryants letters on this message board, the first and then on down, she seems to know personally of these things. Darwin Fish does not speak for himself except in his manifestoes, I guess you would could call his messages.....pray his force is spirutally killed off or we could have a big problem in the future or anytime. I know they also have had illegal guns in the house, and they have legal guns, I wonder if Darwin Fish will tell the truth about these things. They believe in being deceitful to the unbelievers, that being us....which is typical of all cults , by the way. They believe that if you sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of truth , there is no more sacrifice for them. How sad, Jesus was the only sacrifice and they are too proud to accept His grace. I believe they are trying to get into heaven by works, and we know that is not the case. All of mens righteousnous is as fifty rags in the sight of God. My heart goes out to these people caught up with Fish. See, he never goes on the web, just has Soto work, work, work and pass out his phone number Why would anyone want to call him, all we can do is hope and pray he sees the real truth for him and his family. Fish is a double minded man. He does not believe in doctors yet his wife went to hospital with emergency with last baby, thank God she did, I am thrilled, its just that I wonder if it had been Sotos wife, could she have gone.....

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 07:22 pm
So, that is a lot of stuff going on with the cult in Bakersfield area, has anything been done to stop the children abuse and other illlegal doings such as guns and wife abuse? Marsha Benson, who got on this site because of cousin.

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Anonymous

Monday, November 04, 2002 - 11:34 am
Hi Marsha:
The women in the group think their husbands are right, I believe Fishes wife is as bad as he is, poor kids. Someone should turn them in, it seems there would be enough proof if Fish did not lie, since he believes in truth so much. I hope your cousin is ok. I would be scared to put my name, I live in CA. I have been on the end of Al Sotos temper before and would not like to be at it again. I am praying and want others to pray that he seperates from Fish and finds our true God, a God of mercy and Love and Light, not the one true church, darwin fish, who is teaching hate, darkness, a hellish way to live. The Kingdom of God is not meat nor drink, but righteousness, Peace and joy.......these flower children, protestors of the cross , in fact, are not happy. They drink and curse and beat children and wives, Fish an old pot smoking want a be. Looks like Soto and rest could see him for what hes really like. They are working on manuel labor jobs and he sits out there gathering in the harvest of their fruits. They cant distinguish between him and Christ. They are serving man and the punishment will be hell on this earth. Why, or why cant they see he is a false teacher, a pharisee, a prideful beast of lust, making rules and bending rules to suit himself and then they dare not call him a cultist. And, you will notice they never....answer....alligations of child spankings and Soto throwing his wife out back door, drinking, smoking (sin to the body, not God necessarily) mocking and cursing Christians, they are setting themselves up for an ending. They say drinking is ok. So, one of them runs over one of their own kids drunk, ok? Hits their wife because their mind is altered from drink, ok? I dont think so, and then they say a little drink, whats a little drink....only leads to bigger drinks and mind altering brains...and cigerettes? Cigerettes are hurting the body more than overeating, the food can be shared with the poor and widoweed and chidren, but i can hardly see giving cigerettes to children or hungry....that money needs to go to the poor and starving. They are stingy, selfish, prideful, arrogant pigs.
Tell me about your cousin, Marsha. I hope he has not got into this sect. These people are doomed in hell before death.
Anonymous in CA

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Anonymous

Monday, November 04, 2002 - 04:48 pm
I too live in Ca. But thank goodness I am in a different area than the Fishites. To the above post you are so right. This Al Soto has never answered questions about punishing infants or abusing wives. He has skipped over the question more than once. I know he sees this, so what about it Al have you abused your children or your wife? I know he will come here and quote scripture. If he didn't have the bible I don't think he would know how to speak.
Are you so afraid Al that if you speak from your own mind without scripture, it would be gibberish. Can you even write one paragraph without quoting scripture. Do you know how to do that?
Arrogant, prideful, self righteous is your name.
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness and goodness I haven't seen that in your posts Al and are you so blind you can't see it? You use scripture to point out all the failings of everyone else. But if something is pointed out to you then the person is stupid and does not accept correction. But it is you who cannot accept correction. You are a foolish man AL Soto and if you don't pull away from Darwin Fish and think for yourself you are going to be one surprised man on judgement day.

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Kim

Monday, November 04, 2002 - 08:13 pm
<Spam Deleted by Administrator>

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Anonymous

Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:25 pm
Kim, Darwin Fish wife name Kim, ha, is that a coincident or is this really Kim trying to help out husband make money....

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Anonymous

Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:54 pm
hello to the above post that agrees Al Soto cant speak without scripture....thats why I never use scripture...I just believe and receive grace....he cannot accept that. He uses scripture out of contexts and completely wrong. Darwin Fish is a fearful man, his lifestyle proves that. He takes all his kids to the post office in that van thats all painted with hate scriptures, sleeps in same room with all, thats fear, whips kids because hes a little man. Al Soto needs to get away from that horrible group and teach love and mercy. Darwin Fish group is grounded in hatred and bitterness over Darwins departure from his old church. He just keeps getting more bitter and more bitter as time goes on.
Al Soto leaves his phone number for us to call. Hes hilarious, hes going to quote scripture, has totally no use for women as does Fish except to put children on earth.
He should join the Taliban, he does not care for America that much. Wish I could contact you, are you woman, i think? I live in Ca, the only person besides Al Soto you can reach on here is the first message from Mrs. Bryant who has son there, and I believe his email is on here too. I dont want to put my email so we will have to converse anonomously, God Bless....

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 04:24 am
Hello to the above post. I can't post my email address either and yes I am a woman.
Are you in the same general area of a True Church? You seem to know alot about the people. Or did you find that information online? You don't have to answer about your location if you don't feel comfortable. I would certainly understand.
To the second post above mine. That same post you are speaking about has been posted on quite a few forums. I don't know who it is but I think they are taking advantage of the space to advertise.
Sounds like a get rich quick gimmick.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 06:35 pm
hello to my anonymous friend. I have went over and over the letters and have more knowledge than is on the web but cannot share most of it. All i can say is I san prove by Fishes own mouth the alligations I have made, so it is not slander. Also Al Sotos own mouth. Just wont type it in for the general pubic. Maybe I will find way to post these talks. Most people that have come out of that sect are scared or just plain dont want anything else to do with them. I feel like I am going to hound them into hell or real salvation thru the blood of Jesus. Hopefully some, if not all will come to the full knowlege of our Lords real Love. I certainly do not believe they will burn in hell, they are just living in it on earth, missing out along with their loved ones the joy that can only come with grace, peace, inner fulfillment knowing we have a wonderful and gracious and forgiving Heavenly Father. Good night.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 10:01 am
GOOD MORNINIG TO THIS POSTING BOARD, HAVE TO START WORK SO EVERYONE PRAYING FOR AL SOTO TO GET AWAY FROM FISH, ALSO OTHER CULT MEMBERS, THANKS, KEEP UP THE PRAYERS.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:08 pm
Yes the prayers will continue. If ever a bunch needed prayer, it's the Fish group.
I feel sorry for the children.
To my anon friend. I understand why you wouldn't post the information you have.
I know you don't want to be identified. I also have information about another cult but I can't post it because it would identify me. If I ask a question and you don't want to answer it that's fine. But do you think the information will ever be made public? Also you said most people that come out of that sect are scared or don't want anything to do with it. Do you think ex members have reason to fear physical harm by this group? I hope anyone reading thinking about joining will think twice after reading these posts.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 09:48 pm
I have no proof that any physical violence would come to anyone that came out of Darwin Fishes sect, nor has anyone that has come out of it said so. Just want nothing to do with them..
They are spiritualy abused in that they are brainwashed into thinking that should they leave they will go to hell and burn an eternity for not believing as Fish believes. The only physical abuse I know of is probably wife abuse and certainly spankings of children, young ones too.
I think Darwin Fish is a coward, shrinks and screams you are touching me if someone gets near him and then goes home and teaches beat your wife if you need too...big man....beat your babies....big man.....but get hit, huh...then he would sue....and have you arrested....big man, huh....
Al Soto has horrid temper, screams at women, probably scared of men too, phsically abusive men to their wives and children are often scared of physical pain, they are little men mentally....trying to keep up with real men. And, they could care less what we say cause we are women...but I have to tell you, most real men think that men that abuse wives and children are jerks...little men too....they need to face up to fact that they need Jesus in their life. And Jesus said, unless we become as little children...not act like a Lord, or higher than Jesus, taking over duties that only he should be in charge of, such as who and who is not going to go to hell and for what reason....does the Bible not say, Love covers a multitude of sins...and Believe and ye shall be saved....they are really working hard to get to heaven....at least Al is, I dont know what Fish does with his days except keep on replintishing the earth with children to beat.

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Anonymous

Friday, November 08, 2002 - 08:52 pm
Isnt is amazing we see a scripture posted and Soto beats it to death, they are sooooooo silent when we talk about child and spousal abuse. Me thinks they are cowards to disclose what they teach on the internet. Cowards to let people know they believe in spanking babies and abusing wives if necessary, even though they love them as they love themselves. Come on, Mr Fish, Mr Soto, do you or do you not spank babies and do you or do you not believe in a very submissive wife to the point of physical abuse if necessary. Cowards you call anonymous people. We call you cowards. You are all mouth, except putting it in writing, fraid, coward to put your hand in writing to what you do and believe? anonymous as you are coward....

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 04:10 am
Isn't it funny Mr Soto you called lots of people here cowards. Now you are being called a coward. If you think it's ok to spank infants and abuse your wife physically even a push out of the back door, why don't you admit you did it. If that is what the bible says you should do why don't you just say so. You have quoted so much of the bible already, why not give us the verses that say you can abuse your wife and children and it's ok because you are a man. If you know in your heart it's right then admit it. Because your silence tells me you know it's wrong and that is why you are not answering. I know you see this.

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 07:57 pm
Go for it anonymous!!!!!! Lets hear it from the sect members themselves, can they stand up and be counted for what they believe or are they cowarding down behind ther computer shirt tales when it comes to truth and putting it in writing. Well, we thought the truth would suit you fine, but you know what, the truth would actually set you guys free....of all your kids...the women, to me personally are as miserarable as you are, from what I can gather of Kim Fish, so you can have her, just send the kids to safety....foster care. Or maybe Grandmas, who you kicked out of church, right? Well, theres always sis, she will take all nine, oh, but excuse me....shes a member so shes possibly abusing hers too....anyone going to stand up and not be liars.....silence is golden....do you guys, or do you not believe in corporal punishment of children under one year of age and up? Do you not believe in physically hitting your wives?

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:53 pm
Mr Darwin Fish
We believe that all things considered about the child abuse issue and the brainwashing of young men and abuse of children and the fact that you have had illegal guns there, that it would be a very good plan to disban your cult. Possibly, you would consider starting a job like you used to have and make a living. You may even decide you would like to sell your property and move. We would really like to see Al Soto seperate from you, David and other members to get free from your bondage. You wont come clean about the child and wife abuse, therefore, you are a liar and a coward and are not fit to be a leader, pastor, according to your own beliefs. We hope to hear that you have disbaned and members have gone back to their lives. We would love to cease our problems with you, but a group of us have decided to take action if you do not disban or come clean about your doubleminded ways. If you cant stand up to the law about the child abuse and fight for your beliefs, and the spousal abuse beliefs, then you need to have to suffer the consequences of child support services and investigators about your house, land, permits, irs, past members statements, your Mothers testimony in court, Al Soto throwing his wife out back door and bragging about it, spanking his kids also, his temper being a sin....be angry and sin not. So Mr Darwin Fish, its on you, disban, admit the truth to this website that you have spanked your babies bottoms before the age of one, or quit because you wont stand up for what you believe in. Al Soto got on this website hollering scriptures, now we want justice for the children the cult. Please reply. We hope to see you disban or explain your stand...if you lie, you are not a christian, and not worthy of a mission for God. If you are spanking babies you are not worthy. There are more of us than you, and we are women, we are out to have you disbanned......answer us! Liar, or no Liar on child spankings before the age of one year. Liar, or no Liar on belief in spousal correcting with physical force? We will hear from you or you will hear from us.

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:21 am
Mr Soto and I am addressing you because I haven't seen a post from Mr Fish. You really let everyone here have it didn't you. You told most all they were cowards, stupid, blasphemers, hell bound, fools, etc etc etc. Well I knew then and before you ever posted anything that there is not one person on this earth that is not a sinner. Not one!!!! This includes you Mr Soto and Mr Fish and everyone in your group. You speak to people as if you were perfect, holy, and. never making a mistake. But from what I hear you are a big old sinner just like the rest of us. You are not perfect or special and you certainly are in no position to point your finger at anyone.
Tell us do you punish infants in your group? Or do you abuse your wives there? How the heck can you point your finger at someone else, you hypocrite. Clean up your own house first before you try to clean someone else's. You are unbelieveable. If you really want to be a Christian you should try harder.

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 03:55 pm
Mr Fish, this is a woman, of we women, hope to hear from you on the issues we have discussed. Do you or do you not have a belief in spanking babies under one. Do you or do you not believe in punishing your wife ?
Have you ever had illegal guns in your house around all your kids? Do you use these young men to build your house bigger and bigger? Do you have proper building permits? Your neighbors do not know, but they are concerned there is cult activity in that area of Bakersfield, dont know if the things that are going on are coming from your home though. We got that information from the authorities. You have the town, the neighbors, the authorities and we women worried, time to talk about child abuse. We dont want any children taken from any good home but no answer is an answer.
Speak up, you sure can yell loud enough at those protesting rallies battering Christians verbally. Wheres your voice. Al Soto started all this, maybe you can clean up his mess and yours by disbanning, send your people on their way. Dead serious in California not that far from you, might even see you at the post office one of these days. We are not violent people, we want justice for the children. That is our only threat. That the women are talked to and they are safe and that the children are not beaten with hands or sticks by anyone. Thats all we want to hear. That a change is going to be made. Or you will lose your children.

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 04:59 pm
The bible says Mr Fish and Mr Soto that woman was made from man's rib not his butt. Women were made to stand next to you not behind you. We are equal to you. We will share glory with you. You came from a woman and there is no differece in male and female to Christ. We are not to be dictated to but to be respected an cherished. Treat your wives with the upmost respect.
Your children are gifts from God. Love and respect them also. Infants are to be protected and loved not spanked. Children are not to be treated harshly. Think about what you do before you do it. Remember your children will learn from you. Don't teach them to be abusive.

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Admin (Admin)

Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:02 am
A Warning and a little Advice:

Where you have proof of a crime or misdemeanour please post evidence of this.
Where you have a belief, or an opinion, or an understanding, then please say that what you are writing is just your opinion etc..

Elegant ways to say this in Internet "shorthand" are:
IMO = In My Opinion
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
IOHO = In Our Humble Opinion

We would not like this board to degenerate into a forum for mudslinging.

In the beginning of this message board it says
"Messages that harass, abuse or threaten other message board users; have obscene or otherwise objectionable content; have spam, commercial or advertising content may be removed. Please do not post any private information unless you want it to be available publicly. Never assume that you are completely anonymous and cannot be identified by your posts."

Nevertheless, "FACTNet Inc. treats all message postings on its message boards as the opinions of the message posters."


The FACTNet Message Board Administrator

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Anonymous

Monday, November 11, 2002 - 02:39 am
Mr Administrator the post above yours was mine. And ninety nine percent of it is my opinion. When I post here it is always my opinion.
But to remind you it's me I'll always say from now on "in my opinion" before I say anything that occurs to me. But if I speak from the bible it is not my opinion but God's so I won't be saying "in my opinion" when speaking of the bible. If you choose to delete my posts anyway then so be it.

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Admin (Admin)

Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:02 am
We were not referring to you in particular.
We were advising ALL the posters in this topic.

You all have a Constitutional Right to speak your minds.

Speak up and do not be afraid. Just keep your posts within the boundaries established by American Law.

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Anonymous

Monday, November 11, 2002 - 12:12 pm
Dear Mr Administrator: I am the poster who claims to have information about the Fish group. I do have the information but am scared of them. There, I will use IMP even though i really dont see how the average person would know what that meant. Al Soto did not use this IMP when he called the posters whoremongers, liars, blasphemers,etc.etc.etc. Please post to him also if you will. Actually, I think this is coming to a head anyway and we will may decide today to go off the website and begin formal proceedings. I am sorry if I got away from the rules of the website, and I, We, the women and men, will also consider using in our opinion, but would like Al Sotos group, Darwin Fish to do likewise. Thank you for your advice, how do I contact you? Do you have an email? Do you read all the posts before they go on? Thanks again.

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Anonymous

Monday, November 11, 2002 - 09:31 pm
To my anonymous friend I do hope this does come to a end and all of this resolved. Please let us know what happens before you go off the board.

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Admin (Admin)

Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:31 am
If you are trying to contact someone in this discussion board then click on the blue link that is the posters name. (In our case that would be "admin") If the poster has put their e-mail address there then you will be able to e-mail them. If not, then you cannot.

Nevetheless FACTNet cannot, for legal reasons, give you much advice on legal strategies or counselling. If you contacted us directly then, in all probability, we would refer you to the people listed on the pages below:

http://www.factnet.org/cris_xpt.htm
http://www.factnet.org/cris_org.htm
http://www.factnet.org/cris_mem.htm

Regarding tit-for-tat name-calling:
These are just your opinions.
A wise person would keep their own posts sane and rational.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 05:55 pm
To the above posts when i click blue, it wont go to you, how can I be sure you are the administrater? I am very sane, and will posts results of my tic for tac when Fish and Soto are confronted with Our opinions only statements by childrens services and the police. Beware, everyone out there, This is a cult. If possible, I will post evidence of , in my opinion, infant spankings, in my opinion, illegal guns, in my opinion, al soto throwing his wife out back door, in my opinion, darwin fish using boys to do his housbuilding with their money, in my opinion, keeping secret money without declaring to the Irs, and in my opinion, comdeming innocent people to hell for being Christans. Absolutely, these people have a right to their beliefs, they do not, in my opinion, have a right to break federal , state, county, family laws , in my opinion. I hope this administrator finds my email address and assures me he is the admnistrater and I will feel more comfortable with the blue adminstrator name that i cannot talk to. In my opinion, Darwin Fish is running scared, calling who ever he can to stop the truth from happening. In my opinion, he should disban, in my opinion, he should stand up for his truths or step down from them, in my opinion, he is not rational, since he believes that only eighteen people in Lancaster are going to heaven, now that is irrational. And sane, in my opinion, Darwin Fish and Al Soto are totally sane, they have a plan going, a finacial and spiriutal plan, in my opinion, they are irratioal and insane......anoymous , sane and rational in California, write to me on email , adminstrator......please.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:57 pm
Administrator I understand you have rules for this board and I understand they should be enforced but I think my posts have all been rational and sane. I always knew there was someone watching the posts but now it's like big brother has invaded the space and telling me how to speak. And as a post stated yesterday I didn't see any warnings posted when Al Soto was calling names and sending everyone to hell over and over again. So I think it is time for me to leave this forum. You won't have to worry about me saying the wrong thing again.
To my anonymous friend, Good luck with what you are doing. I pray everything turns out ok. God bless you.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 01:59 am
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

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Admin (Admin)

Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 06:44 pm
If you want to contact the Administrator then click on "Contact" in the left-hand index.

Then click on "The Ghost in the Machine"

This will enable you to contact manage@factnet.org

We will try to answer any questions as time and resources allow.

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Anonymous

Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 02:54 pm
Thank you very much, Adminstrator, WE finally did figure that out with friends help and will contact you, am glad you are you.
We sincerely appreciate this website and do not want to go beyond the rules and guidelines on this post.
Thank you again, very much for answering. Anonymous Men and Women against Darwin Fish and his group.
Again, if you know my website, you may write to us anytime personally, we have nothing to hide.

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Anonymous

Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 03:07 pm
IN OUR OPINION ONLY, Darwin Fish is a coward. He will not get on his keyboard and type in, "I do not spank my children under one year old on their bottoms". But he can go out and protest and scream sripture at people, all the time yelling, You touched me, you touched me. His babies cant talk yet....in our opinion, hes not a fit leader, please, all you guys, Al, hes not fit to lead you, hes mean to babies and women. In our opinion from words out of Darwin Fishes mouth, he has had men living at his home with illegal weapons. In our opinion, we are glad he finally got rid of the weapon. Now, maybe he will tell us that he does not or will not spank children under one on the bottom, because IOP , if he does not say it, then hes still doing it. For you are wondering whats happening on the legal end, we are talking and making plan of legal attack thru agency, does anyone have phone number of Child Welfare Services in Lancaster CA? I cannot find it, what town would that be closest to?
Thanks, from the men and women against Darwin Fish. Also, how many of you would stand with signs when they protest that they are possibly, in our opinion, child abusers, wife abusers and cult leaders, brainwashing people.....let me know how many and i will tell you where to meet me.....

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matsiasan

Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 12:25 am
<Spam Deleted by Administrator>

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 12:19 pm
to the above posts: Good luck with your mediatation, we will take Jesus.....but we still love you.....

To the people who are watching about Fish, Soto Clan, things are happening......stay on board!

The Women and Men against the Fish Cult...

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:27 pm
good

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Anonymous

Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 08:58 pm
This week should bring some amazing things to pass. Everything we do will be legal and non violent of course. As Darwin Fish also believes, no law should be broken. We are just going to go with the laws of California and the Government of the United States and do what is the correct and proper procedures in the coming week. Thanks to anonymous above.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 08:41 pm
Anonymous:
Mrs. Bryant, the first post here, are you still watching this post?

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Anonymous

Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 08:58 pm
I'm not Mrs Bryant but I am watching. I Don't want to speak though.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 11:30 am
AL SOTO
BLASPHERMER OF THE WORD OF GOD, COWARD TO THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS, ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, PROUD, ARROGANT AND SELF SUFFICENT, WITHOUT NEEDING THE GRACE OF GOD. LEADING CHRISIANS OUT FROM THE PEACE AND JOY OF SALVATION INTO HELLISH, GOULISH LIVES FILLED WITH TORMENED THOUGHTS OF BURNING FOREVER AND THEIR LOVED ONES BURING FOREVER, GOD WILL SURELY TURN HIS BACK ON YOUR DECEITFL RELIGIOUS PRIDE AND YOUR MESSAGE OF HATE ON THAT GREAT DAY.
DARWIN FISH IS ONLY A PEON, STILL SULKING FROM GETTING BANISHED FROM HIS CHURCH HE LOVED SO WELL BUT COULD NEVER BE HEARD IN BECAUSE OF HIS HATFUL THOUGHTS AND LIES HE TOLD AND THE CHRISTIAN HE HURT.
MEMBERS OF HIS CULT, LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF YOUR HEART. GET OUT, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES, SPIRITUAL AND OTHERWISE. THESE PEOPLE ARE HORRID , WICKED DECEIVERS OF THE TRUTH OF OUR WONDERFUL AND MAJESTICK SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST. GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM, AT HE CROSS, REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD FOR YOUR SINS, CALLING OUT TO OTHERS TO BE SAVED, SAVED FROM SIN THAT ONLY CHRIST AND DARWIN FISH CAN APPLY THE BLOOD OF ATONEMENT FOR.
PLEASE, I EXTORT ALL OF YOU, ASK GOD, ASK HIM NOW, IF WHAT YOU ARE AND WHERE YOU ARE IS WHERE GOD WANTS YOU TO BE. OUR PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU.
TO THE ABOVE ANONYMOUS POSTS, KEEP PRAYING.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 11:43 am
LEFT OUT A COUPLE OF WORDS, SUCH AS ONLY
CHRIST AND NOT DARWIN FISH.....DARWIN FISH HAS NO USE WHATSOEVER FOR JESUS CHRIST , HIS MISSION OF HATE WOULD BE OVER, IF HE TRULY KNEW GOD......................!

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Anonymous

Friday, November 29, 2002 - 01:46 pm
I just cant understand why Mr Fish can get out there and yell in peoples faces in crowds of thousands but when hes asked if he spanks his children one year and under, no one can answer? Al Soto wont answer for himself either. Al Soto, do you spank your babies one year and under? Is this anonymous person correct. Are you fearful to answer the truth. Are you indeed, the real cowards and liars? anonymous

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Anonymous

Friday, November 29, 2002 - 04:24 pm
To the person that types in all caps. I like what you say and how you say it. Do you have a website?

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 03:20 pm
HA, SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT IN COMPUTER LANGUAGE, ITS SCREAMING, BUT THEN I AM JUST NOT INTO COMPUTER LANGUAGE. NO, I DO NOT HAVE A WEBSITE, I HAVE A ADVERSION TO DARWIN FISH AND AL SOTO AND THEIR CULT. I PRAY EVERYDAY FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL MINDS TO BE CHANGED BY GODS HOLY SPIRIT THRU HIS WORD. I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW MISREPRESENTED OUR PRECIOUS LORD AND SAVIOR IS IN THEIR MESSAGE. PLEASE, HELP US PRAY FOR THEM TO CHANGE AND FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND LOVED ONES TO STAY SAFE. ABOUT THE ONLY PEOPLE YOU CAN TYPE A LETTER TO HERE EXCEPT RIGHT ON THIS WEB IS THE FIRST POST AND THEN HER SON WHO ANSWERS. AL SOTO LEAVES HIS PHONE NUMBER BUT HE IS VERY UNLEARNED IN THE WORD, BEING TAUGHT BY DARWIN FISH. I KNOW THAT GOD CAN USE THEIR STRENGHTS TO BETTER HIS GOOD NEWS RATHER THAN SENDING CHRISTIANS TO HELL, BURNING FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE DARWIN FISHES THEORY OF GODS WORD. HOW VERY SAD FOR THOSE FOLLOWERS TO HAVE NO HOPE EXCEPT THAT FOUND IN DARWIN FISHES PRIDEFUL, ARROGANT, HATEFUL , MEAN, TWISTED, CULT LEADING MIND. HE WILL STAND BEFORE A LOVING GOD , THANK GOD, THATS HIS ONLY CHANCE. THE VERY NEWS, THE GOOD NEWS IS, THAT HE PROBABLY WILL BE, HOPEFULLY BE SAVED BY THE GRACE OF GOD. PRAISE GOD FOR GODS MERCY AND LOVE, I COULDNT MAKE WITHOUT IT.
A FRIEND IN JESUS NAME.

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Anonymous

Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 09:52 pm
Typing in all caps is equal to yelling online but your posts don't offend me. You are not directing your adversion to me. So I still enjoy reading what you post because I feel the same way you do about Darwin's group.

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Anonymous

Monday, December 02, 2002 - 02:11 pm
Well, i guess we are old news now. Things that ww are going to do have so much paperwork involved and legalalities that it is taking a lot of days to fill out all the stuff different people have to have. We are also going to see if the home schooling of the children is being done legally. No one wants to see families lose their children but if they wont answer a simple question, No, I dont spank my children under one year old, then its obvous they may practice this. Also, we need to see if Darwin Fishes teen girl is ok, because we hear lots of stories how they all sleep together in one room...how can that be healthy for a teen, or for the other children, nine and two adults in one room? We need some answers Mr. Fish, so if you cant answer us, you will be answering the proper authorities. I dont need proof, by the way, just a complaint.
My complaint can be found on your website and the way Al Soto answers, so you should answer us in truth, for all your sakes.
You know, there was a garage sale, and in that garage sale there was furniture, and in that furniture there was probably some items from your cult. And it could be possible since I could have bought something from that garage sale that i have lots of information on your cult and since i might have bought and paid for that furniture, then all that information is mine, because from the photos i have seen, it could be that you personally sold that information, in my opinion all of the above could be true. anonymous

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Anonymous

Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 04:43 pm
HI, AL SOTO: ARE YOU STILL IN THE CULT? PRAYING FOR YOU......

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Anonymous

Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 03:23 pm
To the above post: Why in the world would you pray for a hateful, mean, arrogant, selfish pig of hell like Al Soto. Hes taking his hellish life out on the world and he will burn for an eternity, flames licking all about him, he will scream in torment forever and ever for what he is doing, Al Soto hates God, he hates Jesus, he hates salvation, he hates love, so let him fry. And I mean hot.

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Anonymous

Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 04:18 pm
Because Al Soto seems to be a "hateful, mean, arrogant and selfish", (And I do believe this) He needs prayer more than ever. Yes he does seem to hate salvation since he mostly speaks of destruction and he does seem to hate love since he speaks as if he hates. A person likes this needs God's intervention. Don't be like him and wish destruction, pray that he realizes what he's doing and turns away from this cult.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 11:44 am
To the above post: You are absolutely right, having a bad hair day! Forgive me.
Sometimes, I do write these things just to get him to answer, hes such a coward when it comes to the child abuse issue but not the hate scriptures. So, I just write something mean, cause I want to argue with this nut. Bye, Happy Lords Day, course that saying will make him mad too, cause he does not believe that Sunday is the Lords day, neither, do I officially, what is the difference, I believe God wants us to set aside time for him.. Suppose he doesnt believe in Christmas trees and Christmas either! Well, I think I am sure Jesus was not born in Deceember, ha, nor on the 25th, but its ok with me for him to have a birthday, since he was human, and it sure gets him lots of attention in December. I do not believe trees are for Jesus nor gifts, but I do believe God allowed Christmas Day to become a day to especially be happy for the birth of Christ. Maybe, who knows, we all have thoughts, maybe that tree is a promise to us , that when a living thing is cut down in its use, it is planted again, with light to the world and for all to enjoy .....and it needs water to survive...course it dies eventually, but that is the earths problem, Christ lives forever as the tree of life and the water for those who thirsts and the gift to all those that receive....Merry Christmas to my anonymous friend. I am glad to know you are there for our need. Pray for us.

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Anonymous

Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:02 am
how about the Easter bunny, the world is a pituful place for holiday material.\
So Al, why do you follow fish around aall ove the place, like a lamb. do you think hes the real Messiah or a sanit? why dont you get off your computer kick and hep some poor people instead of hating them.?
Whats in it for u.? I see Fish geting money out of u gus, but dont you get tired of the stuff u do,holding down all the work, geting all the finances together.? Doesnt he just sit home and place house all day .? weierd, i went and looked at the protesting, weird, you sure can pick and chose who u want to desplay, huh, looks like a bunch of weirdos cult to me.
Is it tru that Fish went to nice church for fiften yrs and then got kicked out for teling people , nu peole that the message was not right and listen to him? Where did you come from, same chursch.? Me, I dont go to chursch, people lik u can keep a person out, all hating and fighting, stupid, i can go watch bruce willis for my money. stupid cults, shuld be a law gainst em. duh

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Anonymous

Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:56 am
HELLO, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO MY ONE FRIEND ON HERE, WE ARE BUSY WITH THE HOLIDAYS AND STUFF...STUFF...HA
WE ARE GOING ON WITH A LOT OF PAPERWORK AND LEGAL STUFF...A HASSLE...WE ARE NEEDING PRAYERS FROM CHRISTIANS TO PUT DARWIN FISH OUT OF BUSINESS AND I DO BELIEVE THATS WHAT IT IS FOR HIM, BUSINESS, BRINGING IN THE DOLLARS AND CONTROLLING EVERYONE AROUND HIM, HOPEFULLY AL SOTO WILL SE THE LIGHT SOON AND OTHERS. HES JUST PREYING ON STRONG MEN TO MAKE HIS LIVING AND RAISE HIS KIDS SO HE WONT HAVE TO DO ANY MANS WORK. HMMMMMM THOSE GUYS SHOULD GET TIRED OF FEEDING HIM SOON.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:22 pm
Make no mistake about it, this is a cult. A few definitions of a cult include: 1)The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society. 2) The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them such as you're "going to hell" if you do not believe their ways. 3)Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. And most importantly, 4) Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

My best friend's husband joined this group and I know first hand that he has forced her and her children to come along with threats, violence & abuse. He started beating their children and her family called social services. This is not my opinion but a matter of public record & fact. She is not allowed to leave the house with out him. He has destroyed all of the childrens toys and books because they are "evil". All family members & friends are banned from calling, visiting, etc. If you do try to visit, he screams at you that you are evil, going to hell and other vulgar insinuations and refuses to let you in the house. My friend stands in the background, mute and sobbing. IMO, she is terrified of him, his threats and what he will do to her and the children if she disobey's him. They are taught that women must obey man, no matter what.

He constantly uses the bible to quote versus out of context and spews half-truths that he refuses to answer when challenged. Pray for this family and those involved in this cult that God may show them the real truth.

Rita, I will pray for your son and his family. I sent you an email and hope to work with you off line.

To all others, do not argue the bible with members of this cult. They live for this and are taught all the half-truths to refute any thing you have to say. The more you, argue, the more they feel they are gaining power. This is Satan's way of winning. The best thing you can do is try to get them to talk about non-biblical things which they can't refute and to show them God's love and support.

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Anonymous

Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 05:08 pm
To the above post who wrote in all caps and spoke about filing paperwork to put the Darwin Fish Group out of business:

Please email me at auntie2ajr@yahoo.com

I have a stong interest in helping you accomplish putting this cult out of business and will help you in any way I can.

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Anonymous

Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 09:02 pm
Hello all caps. I wish you luck in what you are doing regarding this group. I hope one day I click on the news and see that this group has disbanned. To you and everyone else have a Merry Christmas.

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Anonymous

Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 10:02 pm
TO THE POST ABOVE, BEST WISHES AND HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE HOLIDAY.
TO THE POST WHO WANTS ME TO WRITE ABOUT CHILD ABUSE TO THEIR WEBSITE, CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOURSELF?
TO THE POST THAT WROTE AND DESCSRIBED A CULT, THAT WAS GREAT. YOU ARE A FRIEND, I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE JOINED TOGETHER WITH THOSE WOMEN AND MEN AGAINST DARWIN FISH AND HIS MESSAGE OF HATE. THANK YOU.
GOD BLESS, KEEP WRITING, EVERYONE HAS TO STICK TOGETHER, WE MUST TAKE DOWN THIS CULT BEFORE THEY DO MORE DAMAGE AND OUR WAY TO DO IT IS TO TAKE THEIR CHILDREN AND WIVES WHO WANT OUT AND PUT THEM IN SAFE HOMES, EVEN FOSTER CARE IF NEEDED FOR THE CHILDREN. THAT SOUNDS MEAN, BUT LOOK AT JIM JONES CULT, THOSE KIDS DIDNT DIE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TOO OR ASK TOO, LOOK AT WACO, TEXAS, THEY LET THEIR CHILDREN BE BURNED ALIVE, SO WE MUST STOP THIS GROUP FROM GETTING THAT FAR. EVERYBODY PRAY AND ASK GOD TO GIVE US STRENGTH TO DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 03:28 pm
Hello to all: Have a nice holiday. To Al Soto I pray that you see thru Darwin Fish and his horrid view of the precious Word of God. I just dont get it. Do you ever read anything above love and hope and charity? Do you never feel Gods love and power in your heart. Do you never feel His forgiveness when you have erred? I beseesch you to ask God, "Am I doing your work God? Truly your work, using your Word," Seek the kindom of God, all of you in the cult and you will find righteiousness, peace and joy. God Bless All Of You.

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Matt Armendariz

Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 03:25 am
To the poster from December 18. You write, "Do not argue the bible with members of this cult." Jude 3 commands believers to contend EARNESTLY for the faith. You say DO NOT do this. The bible says DO this. HMMMMMM! Which should we obey? You are NOT Christ's disciple if you do not keep His commands, one of which is mentioned above. May God save you.

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Matt Armendariz

Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 03:28 am
Is that you, Francine, on December 18?

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Anonymous

Wednesday, December 25, 2002 - 11:16 pm
Don't argue with this group. If you read any of the previous posts you will see how useless it is. You should contend earnestly for the faith. But that only works with normal thinking people. This group is not normal. So arguing with them is like arguing with the wind. It will get you nowhere. It's as if part of their brain is missing. Sounds like you might be part of this group. You said Jude 3 says to contend earnestly for the faith. Then you said "You are Not Christ's disciples if you do not keep his comandments one of which is mention above. May God save you".
No one so far has the nerve to come here and say someone is not of Christ (because no one knows) but someone from this group. So because I believe you are of this group I won't be responding to any post that sounds like you.
Go talk to to Fish and Soto.

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Anonymous

Friday, December 27, 2002 - 01:12 pm
to the above post. yes, the matt creature is a fishite and his wife is a fishette, bless her soul and their children of whom, according to paperwork at county are under supervision of social services watching child abuse situation.
so matt, you are joining our little session, i will talk to you, oh, but you dont talk to women about God, i thought, just yell, scream.....oh, gee, i heard you all, the guys, were going to get some more spouses, how about that.......why cant we women have more spouses, we sure would have less work to do, we could hire maids and nannies and have more time to sit at your feet instead of at the feet of Christ. You guys are getting tired of your fat old wives and them being too tired, right? will they be elevated to higher rights than the young ones you are planning? is this in the Bible? Would that come under adultry, i mean, just looking at a woman is adultry, so it must be adultry....hmmm....matt, you are probably the worst one, the meanest, cause you are stupid and not well versed in the Word. theres a difference in sparing the rod and spoiling the child and provoking your children to anger....when these samll children, in my opinion, of course that are getting black eyes and whipped from you get older they, IMO, will turn out to be murderers, haters of you and your wife, damage their own children, druggies, vile haters of the law of any kind, have you really read the Word or just cut a few scrptures out here and there to satify your prideful, mean, hating, stupid mind. In my opinion, you found Fish because you were looking for that scene.....if you had knoced at Jesus door He would have answered with Love and said Come, Love one Another. I loved you before you were even born, I died on the cross so that you might have the hope of eternal life. I love my children and unless you come to me as children, you cannot come....
sorry matt, you are full of pride, fish is a total nut, imo, taking your money and your mind, just like davids, caseys, als, kims, all of them, headed for jim jones sitauation.....watch out.....women, if you can read and get online, get out!!!!! TAKE YOUR KIDS AND RUN FOR THEIR LIVES, NOT YOURS....AND YOURS IF YOU WANT TOO. RUN FOR JESUS......FORSAKE FISH AND HIS ANTICHRIST MOVEMENT TODAY!

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Anonymous

Friday, December 27, 2002 - 04:20 pm
Good evening, my name is Ida, I live in Mississippi. I heard about you all from the other website. Anyhow, I have not read all this stuff, theres a lot, but I would say this bunch of people sound like a cult to me. But to this person above who does not believe in punishing children. I was raised with a stern Father and Mother who beat me with a hicory stick at least once a week. My brothers and sisters and I were also raised in a hardline church. I have to say we all turned out to be hard workers and respecters of the law. My back was red with stripes but it equipped me to do right by society. I always obeyed the law.
About their religious beliefs though, you know they never talk about the gifts of the Spirit, I wonder if they believe in receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, healings and miracles. They believe every word to be true in the Bible so I know they will believe this. I just hope and pray that this is not true that they want to take upon themselves more wives, that is fornification of the highest kind and they will be sinning. Do they ever come on here and talk about the Spirit of God leading them into the way of Holiness?
This is really an interesting bunch of people but I'd be scared they were devil worshippers and of the anti-Christ also.
Well, just wanted to say a few words. Ida Simmons Wilding , a Christian saint.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 02:15 pm
I know Ida, and I am omajean from the same place near her. We are reading this Darwin Fish stuff and laughing our heads off.
We are going to start a prayer chain. Will anyone who reads this please post in every wesite possible to beware of this movement in california.
What do these people think about war? Are they ready to defend our country. Maybe they will go protect us from
Saddam, I bet and we all bet they will run to Canada or wherever. They are chicken livered , in our opinions, wife and child abusers, send them to Miss, we will offer them some old time hospitality reserved for fornicatiors and assasins of the Gods Holy Word.
As for whipping kids, they dont need whipping, they need to be taught by example and be in a safe family with a good married parents, not a man with two or three wives.
These are funny people, I saw them protesting online. Looks like, sounds like a bunch of kooks. Sorry about the typing mistakes, Ida is typing for me.
God will have His wrath upon this group, thats for sure. We are passing all this around.
we sure dont want our kids to hear it.

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 02:43 pm
HELLO ANONYMOUS, HELLO RITA, AND HELLO ANONYMOUS; HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR.
SO, MATT DOES NOT SPEAK. I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU HE GOT IN TROUBLE FOR TALKING ON THE WEB. HE HAS TO ASK FISH OR AL SOTO FOR THAT PLEASURE. AND HE HAS TO VOMIT SCRIPTURES FROM FISHES BIBLE AT YOU.
MATT WILL GET WHAT HE DESERVES SPIRITAULLY AND IF HE TRULY BEATS HIS CHILDREN, IN MY OPINION, HE WILL LOSE THEM, AS WILL DARWIN FISH, IN MY OPINION, AS WILL AL SOTO, EVEN THE NEW ONE ON THE WAY, IN MY OPINION TO GOOD CHRISTIAN HOMES THAT WILL NOT HIT AND ABUSE THEM, IN MY OPINION. ITS NOT GOOD AND CLEAN AND RIGHTEOUS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THAT COMPOUND OF PEOPLE, THEY HAVE GAINED MATT TOO SINCE SUMMER AND HE IS EVIL, IN MY OPINION, AL, DARWIN, YOU NEED T CHECK HIM OUT, GET RID OF HIM, HES NOT LIKE YOU GUYS, HES MEAN AND UGLY, IN MY OPINION, YOU GUYS AT LEAST BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, HE JUST WANTS TO DO IT, WHETHER HE BELIEVES IT OR NOT, RIGHT DONW HIS ALLEY, MUST NOT LIKE HIS JOB. BUT THEN, AT LEAST HE HAS ONE, WHICH IS MORE THAN I CAN SAY FOR FISH, DIDNT HE WORK WIT BOYS A LOT? NOW HE JUST TAKES THEIR MONEY TO LIVE ON. HA, TELLS THEM, HAVING BILLS IS SIN, GIVE ME YOUR PAYCHECK, SO I WONT SIN......DO THEY PAY THEIR BILLS?
A REALLY GOOD QUESTION FOR DAVID AND CASEY.
DO YOU BOTH PAY CHILD SUPPORT FOR YOUR CHILDREN YOU ABANDONED TO BE WITH FISH?
NOT ANSWERING WILL BE A NO TO ME. ARE THEY ON WELFARE USING MY...OUR MONEY TO SUPPORT FISH? YOUR ARE SINNING IF YOUR WIVES AND CHILDREN ARE NOT BEING FED AND HOUSED BY YOU BOTH. YOU ARE STEALING FROM THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND FROM LOVED ONES WHO HAVE TO TAKE YOUR PLACES.
DO YOU BOTH WORK? DO YOUR CHILDREN HAVE FOOD? DO YOU KNOW IF THEY ARE SAFE? IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN YOUR CHILDS LIFE AND DARWIN FISHES, WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE?
YOU BOTH HAVE CHOSEN DARWIN FISH RATHER THAN YOUR WIVES, SO YOU ARE SINNNERS, TOTAL SINNERS IN THE EYES OF GOD. THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME, HE SAYS, AND HE BLESSES MARRIAGE AND YOU BOTH LEFT MARRIAGES WHERE WOMEN ADORE YOU AND YOU WERE NOT FISHEGGS WHEN YOU MARRIED. MARRIAGE IS TILL DEATH DO YOU PART, IF YOU ARE DOWN THERE MASTURBATING INSTEAD OF FULFILLLING YOUR WIFES NEEDS, I THINK YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THE WORD OF GOD, I THINK THATS A SIN TOO. SO WE GOT SOME HEAVY SINNING GOING ON...NOT WORKING FOR YOUR FAMILY, NOT SERVING GOD WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART, NOT LOVING YOUR WIFE MORE THAN A MERE MORTAL MAN...FISH....MASTURBATING ON THE GROUND INSTEAD OF MEETING YOUR WIFES NEEDS, NOT LOVING YOUR WIVES, NOT BEING A FATHER, HOW HORRID YOU BOTH ARE, LIARS TO YOUR VOWS, COVETERS OF LOVE OF YOURSELF, BOOZE, CIGERETTES, WHATEVER ELSE YOU ALL DO, SINNERS THAT CHEAT THE GOVERNMENT IF THAT WIFE TAKES ONE PENNY FROM WELFARE OR GOES TO DOCTOR ON MEDICAL. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO TURN IN YOUR CHECKS AND HAVE MONEY TAKEN OUT, PAY THE DOCTOR BILLS UNLESS YOU SINCERELY CAN APPLY FOR MEDICAL ON THE MONEY YOU MAKE.
YOU WILL, YOU WILL, YOU TWO, STAND BEFORE A JUDGEMENT DAY IN FRONT OF GOD AND HIS WRATH WHO WILL SAY, CASEY, DAVID, HAVE YOU BEEN GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVENTS....OH YES LORD, WE FED YOUR SHEEP, WE JUST DIDNT FEED OUR BABIES AND WIVES,.......HMMMMMMMMM HAPPY HOLIDAYS BOYS....GROW UP, GET OUT, GO HOME! BEG YOUR WIVES FOR FORGIVENESS , THEN GOD.!!!!!

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 08:31 pm
another anonymous here:
If you want more informatin on the Darwin Fish cult, you might want to check out Phil Johnsons insights into this group. I believe he was an elder where Darwin Fish used to attend church for years and years before he was kcked out for telling new converts the pastor was not correct in his teachings. Some interesting things to be read there. Mayson

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Anonymous

Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 10:34 pm
I knew that Matt person was from that group. They all sound alike. I think I could pick one of them out of a crowd now.
And as one of the the posts said above, he sounds stupid. No wonder Fish won't let just any of them online to speak for the group. Soto must have finished third grade unlike the others who just finished first.
I don't understand why they all believe every word Fish says. Can't they even think for themselves?

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:46 am
"the matt creature is a fishite"

"And as one of the the posts said above, he sounds stupid."

"Soto must have finished third grade unlike the others who just finished first."

"MATT TOO SINCE SUMMER AND HE IS EVIL, IN MY OPINION, AL, DARWIN, YOU NEED T CHECK HIM OUT, GET RID OF HIM, HES NOT LIKE YOU GUYS, HES MEAN AND UGLY, IN MY OPINION,"

"They are chicken livered , in our opinions, wife and child abusers, send them to Miss, we will offer them some old time hospitality reserved for fornicatiors and assasins of the Gods Holy Word."

"You guys are getting tired of your fat old wives and them being too tired, right?"

"To the above post: Why in the world would you pray for a hateful, mean, arrogant, selfish pig of hell like Al Soto. Hes taking his hellish life out on the world and he will burn for an eternity, flames licking all about him, he will scream in torment forever and ever for what he is doing, Al Soto hates God, he hates Jesus, he hates salvation, he hates love, so let him fry. And I mean hot."

Ephesians 5:1-4
Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Matthew 5:43-45
"You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor[1] and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Ephesians 4:31
Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.

Titus 3:2
to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

1 Peter 2:1
Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,

Something to really think hard about. WWJD?

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 12:44 pm
I was very moved by the Scriptures posted about evil speaking. I think
we all need to take heed and mediate on those verses. I have as of
late gone through many of these posts and sad to say I am not sensing
the Spirit in some of these posts. Please listen to what I have to say
before writing me off. I don't want to argue with you all, I just want
you to all just stop for a second and just listen.

So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to
speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the
righteousness of God.
James 1:19-20

I sense a lot of wrath and anger and I am not seeing it produce the
righteousness of God. There is much name calling, many threats, and
wishing of evil upon these poor souls of "a true church". I am not
here to defend what they believe, but to ask you all to stop all this
wrath. If they are your enemies, should you not love them as your
enemies? Beat them with kindness!

Also I would like to know what we are saying about this child abuse
stuff. We are not saying that spanking your kids is child abuse are
we? The Bible is clear on this point. Of course we don't break bones
and spank them in anger, but we do spank them...........right?

Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.
Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.
You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 23

The goal is not to kill the child but to deliver their soul from hell.
To discipline in love, for their sake. Someone in the above posts
seemed to indicate that this kind of biblical discipline would make the
child into a wicked person?? Don't you all think our kids in this
nation are getting worse because they are NOT being disciplined. Are
we saying that spanking a child is "abuse"?

Anyhow, those are my thoughts. Please consider them.

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:25 pm
your thoughts are fine, but its not your family and loved ones fish and soto have in their arms of salvation instead of the arms of God.. Yes, I am mean, am willing to go to lengths to free brainwashed people in cult. Administrator says dont say anything i wouldnt say to face, so i dont, only i would say worse.
Love, yes, i love these people, i pray for them every day, in my car, reading the word, at night at morning. I pray that by dividing the truth to them about darwin that they might all go back to their original beliefs in love and charity. you cannot fight these people with love scriptures, sorry that is a tried and lost battle. you cannot fight these people with scriptures period, because they have only what fish says to learn and memorize. we are here to expose cults. we are here to save our loved ones. we are here to warn people. We are here to help you if you are one of them.
Let me ask you.....where do you think darwin fish would be if he was not being supported by these young men? He has nine kids, no job. He calls anyone coveteous of money who has anything more than scriptures pasted on walls, such as photos of children in frames, or a painting of a boat, whatever, or an extra five hundred dollars in the bank. So, lets take all of darwins men out of his financial picture.....i think, dont you, that he would become a little nervous about money, a little coveteous.....look.....hes got these boys working for him, flower childlren bringing in the money and he calls anything they would have left over greed, besides necessary food, a couple peices of clothing and bedding...
Hes the one that has greed....he calls hardworking men and women greedy.....he calls employers greedy......has he ever tried keeping men on a payroll and therefore feeding families and providing food and shelter for people.....is that greed? People are greedy and coverters of money that have the abilit to keep america going? He believes all bills are sin, so how do we buy a house, we dont, according to him, we should all be so lucky as to have one being built with or without permits so we would not owe bills and have a generator and land paid for.....those guys wifes that they have left should be so lucky....
sorry, i offend people, Jesus turned the money changers tables over in disgust, can you imagine what Jesus would have to say to these people who have taken His name and His Message and messed up so many lives.....i am mad....and the above posts can believe that love scriptures will gather this flock in, but i tell you, they have to be devoured by their own means, divide them and conqueor, cause every possible discord possible.....bring our loved ones home, stop them from gathering in a harvest of young men to join their jim jones lifestyle.....
I do love my enemies, i have especially taken a burden for al soto, i pray especially probably five times a day for him, i believe God gave me this burden, you know, we all need to be more Godly in mouth and wisdom of what we say and do, but at the end of the day, when the battles on and theres a war to be won, someone has to do some mean, dirty work, someone has to be the low down dirty out and out fighter for the families who have lost their loved ones.....i could, you know quote as many love scriptures as the BiBle holds, but they hate, hate, hate, i have to attack with the part of me that is of this earth, my old man, my new man prays, my old man says, you are on your way out fish, you are going out! sorry to offend the nice people on this web, sometimes i cannot believe its me either, nut i wont stop until the administrator tells me to......and thats that.....plus, we are gathering new infor anout this child abuse which i will personally, when finished print from whatever happens so you will know the full extent of any child abuse going on. Of course, if you will go back to the first paragraph, you will see that Rita Bryant started this whole thing by saying there was an incident with her grandchild and then al soto attacked her as did her own son......
i feel like you are from fishes group, so you must matts wife or matt, so i hope that you will find the strength and knowledge and good mind to get out now....anonymous in california

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 04:57 pm
You are willing to go to any lengths? Even doing things that are against God? I am sad to read what you wrote. So name calling is godly?

Also you did not answer my questions on child discipline.

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 05:05 pm
also: Did you read the Scriptures that were posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 03:46 am?

Do you think you are living these out in regards to this Fish group? I have to say you are not. Like I said I am not going to defend the doctrines of this group, but I am going to defend the Scriptures. You seem to be filled with as much hate as you say they are. Saying all those horrible things, fat women, may they burn in hell. How horrid. Do you not see this? Where is the love, the gentleness, the meekness? And now you seem to want to attack what I am saying. Your are not listening. Listen with your heart.

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 05:10 pm
Am I the only who sees a problem here? Please let me know. How about you Rita? Are you happy with the language on this board? Are we doing what you want? Do we seek to destory and tear down people?

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 06:37 pm
TO THE POST ABOVE
YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT OF THE CULT.
YES, THOSE WORDS ARE HORRID.
ARE THEY WORSE THAN THE BLOOD THAT COVERED THE RIVERS AND THE FIELDS FROM CHRISTIANS THAT DIED FOR US. WE SIT ON OUR PEWS SO SATISFIED AND SAFE. HAVE YOU READ ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO CHRISTIANS....PULLED APART.....HEADS CHOPPED OFF.....CRUICIFIED, BURNED, THROWED TO THE LIONS.....
YOU SEE, DARWIN FISH PROFESSES TO BE A CHRISTIAN, HE PROFESSES TO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AND HIS MESSAGE.
WHY DOES HE WANT TO CALL HIMSELF GODS FAMILY ANYTHING OR A TRUE CHURCH OR A CHRISTIAN. DO YOU SEE A TRUE CHURCH THERE..
DARWIN FISH AND GROUP WILL NOT SPEAK TO A WOMAN THAT IS A CHRISTIAN ABOUT THE BIBLE. MAYBE ON THE INTERNET, TRY THEIR WEBSITE.
DARWIN FISH GROUP WOULD HAVE NO LIFE NOR GROUP IF NOT FOR HATE.
DARWIN FISH IS A MAN WHO IS GAINING POWER OVER MEN WHO SUPPORT HIM AND HIS NINE KIDS.
DARWIN FISH HAS MADE MEN LEAVE THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN FOR HIS SAKE.
DARWIN FISH DOES NOT WORK FOR A LIVING.
DARWIN FISH ATTACKS CHRISTIANS WHO GO TO CHURCH, BUT IF THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, THEN ALL HIS GROUP CAN ASSOSICATE, PARTY, BOOZE IT UP AND WASTE CHLDRENS MONEY ON THE BOOZE AND CIGERETTES, GUNS, WHATEVER THEIR HEARTS DESIRE.
DARWIN FISH HAS, IN MY OPINION, TALKED HIS WIFE INTO LETTING HIM HAVE ANOTHER WIFE WHEN POSSIBLE TO REPLENTISH THE EARTH WITH HIS SEED, BECAUSE SHE HAS HAD NINE AND PROBABLY WOULD DIE IF SHE HAS ANOTHER ONE, POSSIBLY, I DONT KNOW.
DARWIN FISH SLEEPS WITH HIS NINE CHILDREN IN ONE ROOM AND CLAIMS OTHER PEOPLE ARE FEARFUL. WHY ARE THEY SLEEPING IN ONE ROOM IF HES NOT SCARED OF THESE PEOPLE HE TAKES IN.
DARWIN FISH IS A VENGEFUL MAN, JUST MAD AT HIS OLD PASTOR AND WANTS TO DUKE IT OUT WITH HIM BY PROTESTING OUTSIDE HIS CHURCH. NO ONE EVEN NOTICES THESE PEOPLE ANYMORE.
THEY ARE NONVIOLENT TO OTHERS, HOPEFULLY TO THEIR WIVES AND CHILDREN.
DARWIN FISH COULD NOT STAY IN BUSINESS IF HE HAD ONE LOVE SCRIPTURE TO OFFER.
HAVE YOU READ FOXES BOOK OF MARTYERS? CAN YOU SIT STILL AND READ ALL THE LOVE SCRIPTURES KNOWING THAT SOMEONE HAS TO CARRY THE WORD AND THEY ONLY LISTEN IN THEIR LANGUAGE. IF THE KITCHEN IS TOO HOT, POSSIBLY YOU SHOULD FIND A SAFE COSZY LITTLE SPOT, BUT DONT FORGET, ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE SACRIFICED AND GAVE THEIR LIVES SO WE EACH COULD SERVE CHRIST.
CHRIST HIMSELF HATED NO ONE , I BELIEVE, BUT HAD HARSH WORDS TO THE PHARISEES, SCRIBES, RULERS OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE.
REMEMBER THE FIELDS AND RIVERS OF BLOOD THAT WENT BEFORE US WHEN YOU THINK MY MOUTH IS BAD. I MAY BE TRYING TO GET YOUR CHILD, YOUR SPOUSE, YOUR FRIEND OUT OF THIS CULT SOMEDAY BY SAYING OR DOING WHATEVER LEGALLY I CAN DO.
I HAVE NOT BEEN AS FORTUNATE AS SOME, I AM IDA OF MISSOURI, SO KNOW THAT CHLD ABUSE IS NOT THE WAY....GOD BLESS YOU AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO GET ON MY CASE.....YOU MENTIONED RITA, NO , RITA WOULD CERTAINLY NEVER, NEVER, APPROVE OF MY BEHAVIOR, BUT I KNOW MOTHERS AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT IF IT TAKES BRINGING THOSE KIDS OUT OF THOSE HOMES TO CLOSE DOWN DARWIN FISHES BANK ACCOUNT AND MAKE HIM BE A SEEKER OF ERNEST MONEY THEN SHE WOULD SAY, GO, TAKE THOSE KIDS AND SEND MY SON HOME TO ME BY THE WAY AND TO THIS WIFE AND CHILD .
ABOUT CHILD ABUSE: ABSOLUTELY, CHILDREN SHOULD LEARN TO RESPECT THEIR FATHER, TEACHING THEM TO RESPECT THEIR HEAVENLY FATHER AT THE SAME TIME. BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION, IS TAKING A TWO INCH WIDE STICK AND STARTING TO SPANK A BABY UNDER SEVEN MONTHS A GOOD THING? THAT IS THE CLAIM FROM THESE POSTS? WILL YOU FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS OF THAT BABY? ALL THE BABIES.
MY THREATS, YOU KNOW, MAY KEEP THOSE BABIES ALIVE FOR ANOTHER DAY OR A WIFE, HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THAT? MY MOUTH, UNHOLY AS IT SEEMS MAY KEEP THAT BABY OUT OF HARMS WAY ANOTHER DAY, THEY KNOW NOT WHEN CHILDRENS SERVICES WILL ARRIVE OR THE SWAT TEAMS MIGHT SURROUND THEIR COMPOUND.
THINK ABOUT THINGS, BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME. I AM KEEPING THE CHILDREN SAFE. IF I OFFEND YOU, I SIN, I RENPENT OF THAT. PLEASE FORGIVE ME, AND IF YOU ARE SINCERE ABOUT YOUR LETTERS THEN WRITE TO RITA BRYANT AND SHE WILL FORWARD YOUR SINCERE LETTER, IF DEEMED NOT A FISH LETTER FROM ME....NO, SHE DOES NOT LIKE THE MANNER IN WHICH I ATTACK , SO I CAN ANSWER FOR HER.....
DEAR CHRISTIANS: THIS IS A SPIRITUAL BATTLE, GOD USES HIS PEOPLE ALL THRUOUT TIME TO WIN HIS WARS. GOD WILL TAKE OUT ALL THOSE IMPOSTERS, ENIEMIES AND CAST THEM FROM HIM UNTILL THAT GREAT DAY. WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE BUT TO LOVE. WE ARE TO FORGIVE OUR EMENIES, WE ARE TO TREAT OTHERS AS WE WANT TO BE TREATED.
I HOPE THAT GOD WILL GO KNOCK ON DARWIN FISHES DOOR AND ASK HIM TO EXAMINE WHETHER HE IS TEACHING THE GOSPEL NEWS OR HATRED, BUT I THINK, FROM TIMES PAST, GOD USES WHOMEVER HE CAN TO TELL HIS PEOPLE THE TRUTH....AND KEEP HIS CHILDREN SAFE. WHO KNOWS WHY I AM HERE, BUT GOD, HE WILL TELL ME WHEN TO REPENT AND BACK OFF AND HE WILL TELL ME WHEN TO ATTACK. IF HE USES MY NEGATIVES FOR HIS GOOD, SO BE IT. PLEASE, CONTINUE WITH YOUR SCRIPTURES, CHRISTIANS. ADDRESS THEM TO AL SOTO TO HIS SITE, RECEIVE HIS GOOD MESSAGE AND THEN JOIN WITH ME IN A CRUSADE, A BLOODY, LEGAL CRUSADE TO SAVE THE CULT MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO CHOICE, THATS THE BABIES.
WRITE ME ON THE WEB, I CAN TAKE IT.....AND I WILL TRY TO BACK OFF ON THE HORRID, TRY TO PUT SCRIPTURES IN, WHICH THEY...THEY....WILL TWIST AND THROW BACK AT ME ....TRY TALKING TO AL ON HIS WEBSITE, YOU WILL SEE WHAT YOU WILL SEE, HE WONT PUT IT HERE, I DONT HATE HIM, I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL OF THEM , BUT THEY ARE NOT CHRISTS MESSENGERS AND THEY MUST BE STOPPED. HUMANS WILL STOP THEM WITH WHATEVER THEY CAN USE. RIGHT NOW, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS PROBABLE, IMO, EVIDENCE OF CHILD ABUSE....ALL THEIR CHILDREN GONE...IF IT HAS TO COME TO THAT, SO BE IT.....ANONYMOUS AND SORRY FOR OFFENDING THE LOVING AND TENDER HEARTS THAT ARE SINCERE...

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Anonymous

Monday, December 30, 2002 - 06:51 pm
ABOUT THE FAT WOMEN THING: I HAVENT A CLUE WHETHER THEY ARE FAT OR NOT, I AM FOR SURE....SO, I THINK FISH HAS TO AGREE WHAT AND HOW MUCH HIS WIFE EATS, IN MY OPINION, FROM GOSSIP ONLY......
I JUST WANT TO JOLT THESE WOMEN...SPINELESS, BRAINLESS, BEATEN DOWN AND TIRED FROM ALL THESE KIDS AND WORK....THIS IS NOT ABOUT GIVING SEED TO THE EARTH.
THIS IS LUST FOR A WOMEN OTHER THAN A FIRST WIFE AND MOTHER OF CHILDREN. PURE, ADULTRY, FORNIFICATION, SIN. SEX WITH A YOUNGER , LESS TIRED, SEXIER WOMAN IS WHAT I SHOULD HAVE SAID....ARE YOU FISH WIFES LISTENING OR CAN YOU SPEEK ON THE NET?

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 12:23 am
So, I take it you agree that you should stop talking like you have in the pasts posts. OK I will drop that point.

It is clear to me that you can't stand the Fishites. Let me you ask you some questions if I may.

1. Do you personally know any of these people in the their church?

2. If not where are you getting your information on child abuse, etc?

3. Also what is your view of spanking kids?

4. Do you think it wrong for a pastor of a church to live soley on what is provided by his fellowship (i.e. money given)? I know of many pastors who do not work outside of teaching the word at church.

5. Also I read the artcile on polygamy and I remember that they said it is wrong to have more than one wife because it is illegal, but that the point of the article was that the Bible does not condemn it.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I assume that this message board was placed here to expose their cultish ways, so I am just trying to understand everyone's position here. It seems that they are some here who have an inside scoop on this group.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 12:28 pm
To the above posts: I have seen the Fish group on the net. I have had conversations with Al Soto. I have an interest in the group. There has been a private investigator who worked legally gathering infomatin from different agencies. Rita Bryant started this site with the first post about possible child abuse and the fact her son was abducted spitually speaking by this group. It is a documented fact that Matt has abused his children, according to documents at social services department. It is documented by Rita Bryant that Casey Bryant wanted to displine his seven month old son
Now, the pastor getting paid thing: No, I dont think pastors should be gettng paid to tell their sheep to leave their wives and children to live on Fish land and serve him. If he is a true pastor of a true church we feel he should tell David and Casey to go and ask forgiveness of their wives and move back home with them, love them more than Fish, not God, Fish, support them, support their vows before God before they met Fish. Do you believe a man should leave his wife and family for another man, Fish, who claims to have all truth. To leave good women who have been faithful and trusting and honorable until they were asked to join the Fish group and refused to join. Fish is not a pastor or sherperd of Gods Word, hes a cult leader. A man of God is certainly worth his money, but first he must be a sherperd. A sherperd is so special. A person you can love and trust and knows he will do and say what is right to care for you day and night. I dont think thats pulling families apart, telling them its ok to discipline a baby with a two inch stick...we are not talking about spanking now, babies are child abuse....we can talk about four year olds and teens if you like, i am talking about babies getting hurt by sticks. A true pastor of God would not be demonstrating outside churches, persecuting Christians , spewing their version of scripture at them. Fish will account for this Anti Christ movement. Fish tells his men its ok to drink and smoke and leave wifes that dont go to church at fish compound, is that a pastor or a tyrant, a Jim Jones Leader in the making. A man who is looking for a way to have more wives, that same man using other young mens money that should be sent to their children to feed his and those to come from future wives. Darwin fish, is it or not a sin not to support your wife and feed her? Even if you leave her? I want you to tell Casey and David the are sinning.
As far as insight scoop, yes, gained access to tapes of meetings from garage sales items.....mercy! Kicked one guy out for not paying his phone bill....hilarious! Law....any then , its ok not to pay child support...hmmmm
Fish is not a pastor, hes nothing but a man who is in it for the money, a hirling, no better than men who cheat people out of their old age pensions, etc. When he starts sherperding his people properly and with the Word of Love and Peace and Hope and Joy, Redemption, he will earn his money, and he wont get to do any of that until he asks all the wives hes ridded the young men who serve him of for repentence and then send those men back home, get rid of this notion that having more than one wife is Gods plan, spending Gods money on themselves booze and smokes instead of giving it to charity, charity beginnng at some of those homes, getting rid of the men in the church that are horrible, that being Matt....telling Al Soto to quit throwing his wife out the back door....you know, anyone that wants information on this group only has to go to the police station, social services or neighbors of Fishes and they will get an earfull and if you have a loved one there, get a private investigator to get the full effect. They will tell you David , im our opinion, does not pay taxes, but works under table, Casey has a wonderful family waitng with a feast to welcome him home, including his wife who wont say anything bad about him and is willing to wait the rest of her life , quote, for the old Casey to come home.
No, Fish does not deserve a dime, not a nickel....hes a fake, a phony, a fraud, a
Christian who will make to heaven but God help him on that great day of He stands before God.
We must continue to fight against Fish and all the Fishes. They take Jesus place at the redemption place at calvary and call themselves the One who is right, the one who knows the Word.
If this is Al Soto who usually writes at am messages at this time, then i hope you gather your family and escape, please, in the name of Jesus and for His Sake, get out. California anon

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 01:15 pm
You mention alot of details so I get lost sometimes. But let me put this together. How do you know that the things you are saying are true like Al throwing his wife out the door, Darwin telling his men to leave their wives, etc? Is this based on third hand information or you got it directly from the source. I looked at the web site and I did not find anything like that.

Also you ask me a question about it being right for a man to leave his wife. No of course not. IF an unbeliever is willing to stay don't divorce them. Are you telling me that these men have divorced their wives because they just wanted to? Do you have this documented? WOW, this would really be bad if that is true. Did you talk to David's wife or Casey's wife?

So, you agree that a pastor could live off the word of God and not have a second job to support himself. So although you disagree with Fish and his teaching etc, being supported by the people in his church is not in of itself wrong. Right? I just want to be clear because you made it sound really bad that someone was being supported by his followers.

How do you know Fish is in it for the money?

Also you believe that polygamy is wrong no matter what? Do you believe Abraham, David etc. sinned by having more than one wife?

So you agree it is OK to spank your children but you have a problem with younger children. What age is OK?

Well those are some more questions, more later. Thank you.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 04:45 pm
To the post above. I don't even consider this group Christian. Real Christiians listen to each other. Real Christians don't condemn each other to hell. Real Christians know that sometimes someone is going to disagree with them but it doesn't mean they are going to burn for it. Real Christians do not only use scripture of destruction and death to make a point. Real Christians try and tell the good news of the gospel any chance they can get. This True Church does what a church shouldn't do and is a cult. There is no other name for it. Their thinking is mixed up. I think they serve a hateful, condenming God. Not the real God. They misinterpret scripture. They are more hateful some non Christian groups. They argue a person into anger. As far as your comments concerning the way people are speaking here, I agree the bible says to be gentle with one another but how would you expect a person to speak after listening to one from this group throwing scripture at them to condemn them and not even with the real interpretation. You can talk until you are blue in the face and they act as if they don't hear a word, even if you are quoting scripture from the same bible they claim they are so fond of. They are truly Anti Christ. Why don't you try and quote those love scriptures at them and see how far you get.


P.S. I am very suspicious and I do believe you may be a member of this cult. Your questions are as if you are trying to trick someone. Yes it is fine to spank children. The bible says spare the rod and spoil the child. But it does not mean to beat them or abuse them. Fathers do not provoke your child to anger. It also does not mean to spank infants. They are unable to understand. Common sense would tell you that. The bible also says a man will leave his father and mother and cleave only to his wife. Not his wives. And not to cleave to another man. I suppose that was the culture in the biblical days that some had more than one wife. But it is not the culture today. Don't try and twist words. It is fine for a church to support a pastor. I think that is a good thing. But Darwin Fish is a cult leader. I wouldn't agree to supporting him.

To everyone else that posted here within the last couple of days I agree with you.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 05:57 pm
Thank you for responding, it seems to be a differnt anonymous. As I said before I am not here to defend any man's position but to understand your point here, and originally to rebuke you for using such foul language.

You say real Christians listen to each other, well that is what I am hoping from you all.

As to hate and anger, that is exactly my point. Many of you I believe are doing the same thing and you are bringing shame to the name of Christ. You should be above that. Go back and read some your posts. Just because the some other group does it does not make it right for us to do so likewise. I would expect unbelievers to respond in anger, but true Christians (as you have said) to listen and to respond as Christians. Seems to me that you are making excuses for your actions and which confirms the truth of what I have said.

Trick someone? Why do you believe this? Just because I am challenging your thinking? Please show me what I wrote that is untrue.

You stated that is spaking does not mean beat, but the verse I quoted says exactly that, beat. Also please answer all my questions above.

What's the difference between beat & abuse? And again what age is OK?

Sure, I would not expect you to support a cult leader, but we can not set up our own standard and condemn someone for doing exactly what a "non" cult leader does.

Thanks for taking the time again to write.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 12:18 am
To the Fish Group: I will not write in caps, therefore being somewhat nicer.
Your words you wrote are not sensible. I said, exactly, that if you wanted to talk about four year olds or teen discipline, then we could talk about that. I specically was referring to Rita Bryants son, Casey Bryant, having a two inch stick and wanting to abuse his child with that stick. I did get that information from Rita Bryant. Shes the grandmother of that child, so you may consider it third hand. I know she no longer is writing on this website, she is scared physically of the cult, in my opinion.
Now, since we are not fighting scrptures any longer but talking, it seems, more people might get online. Without my viocious tongue and you all sending everyone to hell, we might communicate better ?
About Al Soto throwing his wife out the back door, Caseys wife told this to Rita, also third hand knowledge. On the day that they came and took all her furniture and left her with thirty dollars and a baby she cried her heart out to Rita Bryant and told how she was called a harlot, stubborn, so Rita Bryant shared this informatin also with me, and it is third hand.
About Matt and social service problems with child abuse, it is documented.
About Casey Bryant not supporting his family, Rita Bryant supplied this informatin to me. She speaks softly and gently and wisely , but speaks the truth and I believe her. Again, she is not going online, she is attacked thru her personal website by Al Soto and she, being a gentle soul, is repulsed by his words and has no use for this type of arguing, ever.
Now about King David, Gods beloved , a man after Gods own heart. Isnt that beautiful, how God gives us King David as an example of how and how not to please God And repentence is key word here, over and over again and God loved him still. He had more than one wife, yes, that was a King marrying for political reasons, yet when he had Bethshebas husband killed, that was pure lust, and yet God forgave him yet again, but he did pay a price. You say, if you sin willfully , you are hell bound, did David go to hell? Then Abrabram, our beloved Father, justified by faith and santified before the blood defied God by having a son by Saras handmaiden, not his wife... a great price was paid there too, and we are still paying that price today, with all the fighting in the middle east and all. Where is Abrahams other wife by law. God was not pleased by this sin but yet Abraham was still blessed of God or did he go to hell?
Jesus said in the new testament, you have heard it said of the old times that if any man wants to divorce his wife he can, but i tell you that he who divorces his wife sins. The only reason given by Jesus for divorce was adultry .
Now, also, do you believe in the scriptures that talk about leaders qualificatins, such as being the elders have to be the husband of one wife? Or have you found something in the Hebrew, GreeK, etc that disputes this?
About supporting pastors, I sincerely believe a man is worthy of his hire, a good tree though brings forth good fruit, and a bad tree brings forth evil fruit, what good fruit does Fish bring forth with his hate message that only eighteen people are going to make it to heaven and rest are condemned to burn. You have to understand, Fish has God in his box, he thinks, but God can and has saved anyone he wants, and Fish has nothing to say about it. Going back all these generations and naming people who are going to hell is taking authority that only belongs to God. Man does not forgive man, judge man to hell.
Please understand, if your group wants to be another religion besides calling yourselves Christians, fine, I have no fault with Buddists, etc. I just feel Christian people ought to teach Christian truths, that of Jesus died on the cross to save the world. Jesus said, I came not to condemn the world, but to save the world.
Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus, become a child of Christ. His message is forgiveness, how many times?
Seventy times seventy for the same offence? Fish does not teach that. Jesus wants His Word taught.
We read all the wrath scriptures that are in the Bible. We know that there is a wrath that will come to those who choose not to serve God, and that they will stand before God on a judgement day, but we will not stand before Fish. Fish needs to say, not me, but God, serve God.
He does not deserve money from men who do not support their wives.. Show me some good that Fish does with the money he gets from men who do not support their babies and wives but give their money to him for his wife and kids. This is not the law of the land. This is sin. Casey is in sin. David is in sin. Darwin Fish is in sin for promoting and encouraging this behavior, we cannot understand such a legalistic leader who would let this go unresolved.
About the child rearing discipline:
There is a line between abuse and discipline. When that line is crossed, God is furious with His people and will punish them. The law of the land is also furious when that line is crossed and will punish. God uses the law of the land a lot to do His work. If you saw a child beat and blackeyed and bruised, Darwin Fish, would you say that the line has been crossed? Al Soto, would you? Would you not, as a Father want to grab that man and just beat him or would you say, well done, faithful servant, spare the rod, spoil the child. I think we know what we are talking about here, we are all parents.
In Caseys position, he was willing to beat his seven month old son with a two inch stick, that is child abuse of the highest degree, that child was innocent, he didnt know because he had not had enough to do with the child to know if it were sick or if all the fighting going on was making it an emotional wreck. Caseys wife is not talking now, waiting for him to come home, with love. Rita Bryant is waiting for her son, I have never asked her, but why dont you ask Casey about his rearing, was he spanked? I dont know? How did he turn out? According to third hand knowledge he is brilliant, beautiful, wonderful, gifted, talented, absolutely the best gift to Mother and wife before his departure. So, lets ask Casey, were you spanked? Were you beaten? How were you disciplined? Tell us, Al, how were you disciplined, Tell us, Fish, how were you disciplined?
I am glad we can talk without screaming, of course you will figure out , Al, who I am after awhile but thats ok, i am not scared of what any man can do to me, just what God can do....and thank God for His discipline that makes us grow and love Him more and more. Pray for wisdom Al, pray for guidanace. Go back to your fist loves, that being the love of Christ and you will find the peace you are looking for. Anyone filled with this message of hate and hellfire to Christians is way off base. David, go home. Casey, go home. Arms are waiting for you. Darwin, get rid of Matt, hes not like you and Al. Al, repent for bragging about throwing your wife, that is not something you want to brag about...what if a stranger broke in and threw her, what would you think about him? Arent you better than a stranger, dont you love her as yourself?
Hey, you guys, calling yourselves deliverers of Gods Holy Word, more wives, booze, smoking, wasting money that should go to the mens families, that is sin! Repent and tell us that you have started to support your families. Tell us they are not on welfare, tell us they have not been abandoned financially by you and then you are unwisely spending money on selfish projects and Fishes famlies food and shelter. Shame, Shame on you!
Let your women come online and tell us why they think you should have more wives, why they think its ok to be disciplined, what is their fine line for punishment of children. Paul had high regard for some women, do you have high regard for only Fishes wife and sister?
Its a pity that you could not have just stayed with the true word but have got all this new wisdom.
Anyone that has went to Fishes website will see that he does not have understanding of the truths of the Gospel News. I dont , in my opinion, know what he does with the redemptive blood that Jesus shed for us at the cross. Was that not real to you , Al, Dawin, all of you?
Are you so proud you cannot accept the salvation message, the free gift of grace.
Accept the free gift of grace, group, and your hearts will be gladened and your lives will be changed from night and hate to light and love.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 05:48 am
To the post on December 31,2002 5:57 PM I have not used foul language here. But if I said anything wrong the Lord will deal with it, not you. I hear everything you are saying and I know scripture is true. There was another person that posted here who said the same thing you are trying to say but they were more meek in their delivery.
I would have responded better to you the first time I answered you if you had been a little more gentle with your rebuke. Most of the people that are posting here now are Christian I think. None of them have bragged to be perfect as I know you are not either. I am not making any excuses. I wanted to post here. I did and it's done.
As far as your question about beatings, I wouldn't beat my child. Beating brings to mind a boxer at the end of a match that has lost. Spankings are needed sometimes. And punishment can also be nonphysical. But to get a board or a big stick or any object hard enough to do damage, including a fist, hold it up in the air and come down on a child as hard as you can with it is child abuse. A child can and should be spanked if needed. But beating, burning, choking, kicking, pinching, that's abuse. That's why there are laws against it.
There is no way any baby should be hit with anything. Babies are the most innocent of creatures. Crying is the only way they can tell you something is wrong. That's mainly when they are abused. Because the parent can't take the crying. But for whatever reason anyone that hits a baby is a coward.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 02:58 pm
Thanks to the above posts: The Fish group will not accept the spanking the baby part, they tell the women to keep bottoms dressed for spanking, whatever that means....
To the Fish Group: So, we are going to do everything that was done in the Old Testament now huh? What a mess you guys are in. Have you actually read all of it...or, do you just want more wives and justifying it by using the Old Testament. If you plan to live Old Testament times, I have a feeling you are truly insane.
I plan to go off the internet soon. I want to devote my time to helping those who want to be helped. We will continue to have investigations at any time so beware, the social services, police, highway patrol, irs, county departments, welfare departments, and private investigators will be watching, beyond tht God will be watching. You do one thing that can be seen and you will lose your children, all of them.
I will be writing to every website possible, Christian wise to alert them to watch out for you Darwin Fish. You are, in my opinion, a scrawny , puny, gutless, star gazing wanna be Jim Jones. You actually believe you are a Apostle, dont you? I have read more literature...the next one after St Paul, right? Enjoy your new wives, fellas, when you get about eighteen teenagers apiece, we will get our laughs.

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 03:04 am
Please tell me how do you apply this verse:

"Apply your heart to instruction,
And your ears to words of knowledge.
Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you BEAT him with A ROD, he will not die.
You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 23 "

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 01:38 pm
apply to what, a three month old baby, a six month old baby, a two yr toddler?
I will definitely use this above post for the social services and maybe I can get one of their people to reply. It flat against the law to beat a child. I thought you believed in the law of the land, oh, but that was last year. Now more wives are coming in . You must have a big hangover to believe you have made any points on the above singled out verse.
I read nearly all of Proverbs yesterday and I could quote you all kinds of stuff that apply to you fellas. Why pick one scripture to beat the babies?
Let me ask you this:
If you are maybe going to get new wives, how do you plan to choose them without sinning with lust? If you look upon a woman to marry, i am supposing you will be lusting after her, or, are you just going to check her teeth and bones and make sure she wants to be submissive, even unto death...?
I have this conspiracy theory going on in my brain, hmmm, i do have that kind of brain.
I say, in my opinion, that Darwin Fish says he can keep all his girls unmarried and virgins if he wants too....
Now, he brings in these young men who worship him and everything he says.....
Now, he wants another wife for himself and is looking for ways for them to get them...guess that will be some secret weddings approved by Fish, and God?
Ok, Darwin Fish is getting rid of all these young guys wives.....for a reason.\
In my opinion, conspiracy theory , of course, Darwin Fish has forordained and forknowledge his daughers husbands, only they happen to be married...
So, David and Casey must divorce their wives, them being stubborn, wharlots, they call them, and then, they will be single, and free to marry since these women were unclean wives, not following Fish and moving there....
Now, Fish has daughers, Casey gets two daughters, David get two daughters....
Conspiracy Theory.....Fish wants his seed to replentish the earth, so with his new wives and his giving two daughters to his new sons, Casey and David, his seed will go and on....and the next daughters will go to next young guy....they just have to wait until there are sixteen or so, in the meanwhile, these new sons are being readied for their two brides each, belonging to Fish.
Fish: Is this true? Are you giving David two of your daughters when they are of age and Casey two or more of your daughters ?
King Solomon had a lot, lot, thousand?
Maybe you will just want to use Casey and your seed? He seems a little smarter and taller than all of you?
Hows this marriage bit work? You should have a lot of guys wanting to join?
Are you daughters up for grabs,
Darwin Fish? Is this the Deal? You want more wives, are you willing to let two or more of your little sweet daughters sleep and have children with Casey, David, how do these arrangements work....I mean, really, dont get it, all in one room, one time, does that mean your girls will be having sex together, laying with each other, you better make some rules, its sounds ugly, filhy, doesnt it, when you really think about it....think about it Fish, Al....is this for you guys? If so, does this also apply to your baby girls?
David, does this program apply to your children, Casey? Are your children going to be seeded by Darwin Fish when they are sixteen and he is sixty? Where are you guys minds at??????????????????
HELP US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THIS SEXUAL SIN IS GOING TO BE.....WILL YOUR DAUGHTERS BE GIVEN IN THE SAME MANNER IN WHICH YOU WANT TO GET>
What happened with Abraham and David questions, dont you agree that God was not pleased with their choices of lust and sin? Do you think he will not have his wrath on you on this earth if you follow after their choices.....? Read your Bible guys, all of it............

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 09:03 pm
To the above posts, do you know the whole and true meaning of the scriptue posted, Probverbs 23.
We want to you all to research this scripture and the rod and beat carefully and answer.
Lets get some answers to what persons think the rod means, what does beat mean.
What translation are you reading so we can all read it, The New King James Version?

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 09:18 pm
To the above post. I stated a few posts back what beating meant to me. I don't have to read any scripture to know the Lord would not want anyone to beat a child half to death. He also would not want anyone to abuse a child. You can debate all you want.

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 09:49 pm
I'm sorry. That was rude. I will read the chapter of the verses you mentioned and get back to you.

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 10:21 pm
Where at "a true church" web site is it propagated that they desire more than one wife? This is what I have read:

IV. Polygamy Today

If the law of the land dictates polygamy not to be legal, then we are to submit ourselves "to every ordinance of man for the Lordís sake" (1 Peter 2:13; see also Romans 13:1-5). Polygamy, under these circumstances, should not be practiced. But, if a believer lived under a government that recognized polygyny as a legitimate form of marriage, no one could Biblically condemn the man for having more than one wife. Scripture does not condemn him, and neither should we (Matthew 7:1-2). Yet, even though we could not judge our Christian polygamous brother as one who is sinning, we could and should judge him as one who is not qualified to oversee the church, nor be a deacon.

This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, . . . . Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, . . . (1 Timothy 3:1-2, 12; see also Titus 1:6)

One of the qualifications of a bishop (literally "overseer") and a deacon (literally "servant") is that he be the husband of one wife. If he were to have two or more, this would disqualify the man.

In the beginning the Lord indeed formed one man and one woman and the two became one flesh (Genesis 2:24; Genesis 1:31; Mark 10:6-8). Whether it be in a monogamous marriage or a polygamous marriage, the two still become one flesh. The man becomes one flesh with each of his wives. We know this by the fact that even if a man has sex with a harlot, he nonetheless becomes one flesh with her (1 Corinthians 6:16). Therefore, the two becoming one still applies to each union in a polygamous marriage.

Proverbs 18:22 says, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing, and obtains favor from the Lord." It's a good thing to find a wife, and who's to say it's a bad thing to find more than one? God doesn't say any such thing, and neither should we.

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 10:56 pm
Once again I have asked how Proverbs 23 is applied. What I got in return is:

"I will definitely use this above post for the social services and maybe I can get one of their people to reply. It flat against the law to beat a child."

Do you know that corporal punishment is still practiced in some schools in the south? Do you know even James Dobson propagates using a paddle on your child's rear end. Hey it was normal child rearing not too many years ago. I'm sorry, but did I ever say anything about beating a child to death?

It seems to me that the Bible sets forth sound teaching in regards to raising godly chidren. I am sad that all you can do is resort to threats. I ask again, how do you apply those verses and at what age? Do you have kids? Have you ever spank your kids?

Do you not think that a a godly person who has the Holy Spirit in them, the spirit of self-control, can control the strength of a spanking? Do you really believe a godly parent can not obey those Scriptures without permently damaging their children? If those verses do not mean what they say, then what do they mean?

This is an honest question: Are you ignorant of the verses about spanking with a rod? It sounds like you have a personal problem with godly discipline. Did you have a bad child hood and get abused by your parents? I ask because you got sooo angry when I just posted the Scripture. It seems there is something else going on in your heart possibly. Just want to know how else I could ask these questions without being threatened.

I can tell you plainly that I do not abuse my children. They are happy, loving and gentle kids, who do not throw fits in a store, who do not talk back to their parents who are actualy a joy to be with.

Are you saying that the law of the land supercedes the law of God?

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and rebuke give wisdom, But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Proverbs 13:24
He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and rebuke give wisdom, But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Are you ashamed of these Scriptures?

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 12:14 am
I must say that the post Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 01:38 pm was really sick to read. Can you please tone down the language. Thanks.

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 01:41 am
I posted Jan2 9:49 P.M. I was just coming back to post on what I read. You see I read the scripture and was coming back to discuss it. But to the above post you don't seem to want to discuss anything, you want to argue. Since everyone here is so "ignorant" of scripture, why don't you go play some place else. You say you are not part of a true church but you may as well be with the way you throw scripture around. Contending for the faith, yeah yeah I know. Well you won't be throwing it at me. I'm done answering your posts.

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 02:55 am
P.S. I do believe you are someone from Darwin's church. You used "we" too many times when you were speaking. Who is"we"? Just a retorical question. I'm not really interested.

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 03:00 am
Q: "Where do you adminsister a spaking?"

Dr. Dobson:"It should be confined to the buttocks area, where permanent damage is very unlikely. . .If you spank a child only on the 'behind' or on the upper part of the legs, I think you will be doing it right."

Q: "Do you think corporal punishment will eventually be outlawed?"

Dr. Dobson:"It is very likely. The tradedy of child abuse has made it difficult for people to understand the difference between viciousness to kids and constructive, positive forms of physical punishment. There are those in the Western world who will not rest until the governmnet interferes with parent-child relationships with all the force of law. It has already happened in Sweden, and the media seems determined to bring that legislation to the United States. IT WILL BE A SAD DAY FOR FAMILIES. Child abuse will increase, not decrease as frustrated parents explode after having no appropriate response to defiant behavior."

THE NEW DARE TO DISCIPLINE, Dr James Dobson, 1992, pages 63-64

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 03:04 am
When I said "we" I was refering to believers. We who are true believers should live in this way....and so on.

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Anonymous

Friday, January 03, 2003 - 09:17 pm
Well, Well, to the nice person who does not want to hear ugly posts: Darwin Fish has an ugly plan for a lot of people. He is taking children to plot and plan and plant his seed, thinking he is a Messiah , on this earth. We cannot condone this with nicities, I feel bad that you are upset by those posts, I really do. And I am a Chrsitan, all my entire life, since i could remember the word Christ.
Why are we bringing James Dobson into this? Darwin Fish sent him to hell along time ago, believing in psychology, etc...along with being too popular....rich..
Rita Bryant is off line, I wanted to ask her about what kind of discipline Casey Bryant received. So, I guess she has turned off the website. It would be nice to hear from Fishes group whether they were or were not spanked as children.
As far as corporal punishment still being used in South, I hope teachers who might be on this website are not using that as an excuse to beat and black their childrens eyes and then say they have a Godly control of their spirit.....? We do know who we are talking about, right? Check it out Darwin, its there in the records, not about you.
Well, whos to say about moving to a country that allows more than one wife.
I wish you could all go personally and we could get retraining orders to keep anyone under eighteen and any wife who did not want to go here. Thats what I have to say about that Jim Jones thought, where are you going, same place in Africa? That is some news. If only a lot of people are reading between all these lines, they are sickened by what is going to happen. You have in all in black and white.
You did not answer my question. Are you going to give two or more of your own daughers to a man who is in your group, which would be convincing that you really belived in this practice and just not lustful and wantng someone younger, plus more children to spank, beat, spare the rod, spoil the child.
A rod and a staff, they confort me, that sounds so sweet, they say it at a lot of funerals. We must feel the rod of guidnce, does it have to be across our backsides? The staff that pulls us closer to God....nice huh, but you dont want the nice scriptures, just the hate ones.
Matt, you need help with your problems, in my opinion. Darwin Fish, you will be exposed and taken down by God. Al Soto, I believe you are in a prison, get out. David and Casey, if you have access to listening to anything but Fish, pray, pray, read the whole Word of God, not just tid bits.
My threats are not threats, they are in motion and are promises.
Lets do something: Lets do the ten commandments....
What is number one: How, David and Casey, does it apply to your spiritual lives?
answer me if you are not locked up in compound with no rights?

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 01:32 am
OK, I will try again. To the above poster answer the questions. If you can. Please re-read my post from Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 10:56 pm.

I have read over and over your diatribes about Fish and his "desire" to mary more than one wife but you have done nothing to support yourself. Also you suggested that spanking is illegal but once again have not supported yourself. You are wrong on that point. But more importantly how do you view the Scriptures given.

I am not interested in your fantasies about the Fish group. I would think by now you would have figured out that David, Casey and Darwin are not planning to respond to this site. If you are not going to defend your statements and answer my questions, then I will just move on to other sites. Thank you.

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 01:33 am
Darwin believes he is the Messiah? Really, do you have a quote or any proof?

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 06:16 am
This talk about Darwin Fish being the mesiah and all really got my attention. Sounds too much like Koreshe and the Branch Davidans. The government sure took care of that group, huh (whole separate issue about our too big goverment)? I will check out their webstie for evidence of this messiah complex. It would be a real tragedy to see a bunch more children harmed like in Waco. I just reread some of the earlier posts. Indeed, the language there seems often "unchristian." The person asking the above questions (who also seems to frequently quote scripture) should be comended for his tone. And if you are the same person who wrote the post right before this one, what a good question youve asked. This is serious stuff this messiah talking. Does anyone have quotes on this and the seed spreading stuff. It sounds like demonic stuff to me. And the questions about child dicipline seem important as well to protect children from going the way of the Korshes in waco. I looked at the psalm quoted (23) and indeed the word says "beat" and "rod." So what does this mean? This is serious stuff, people. Please, let's get to the bottom of this messiah talk and the talk about having many wives, which by the way, would be gross hyprocricy, since I remember one part of their article, even quoted above, that says to not do polygamy (multiple wives) in our land due to laws, etc. This would make fish a major hypocrit if he planned to have more than one, even worse since he (claims to be)is some kind of pastor which is DEFINITLY not ok by the bible. Let me know aobut such quotes and things. I will check out website thouroughly. Again, the tone, folks, lets watch our tone.

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 12:48 pm
Morning: The tone, yes, the tone i must watch the tone, thank you.
They, They, ha, are watching, if not responding, Al will use his name, and Matt, it seems, until i chose to tell his secret social service problem of child abuse. David and Casey are young, need protecting spritually . I say Darwin Fish thinks he is an apostle....and that truly may lead to the Messiah personality which they turn into. Darwin Fish and group have not accepted the blood of Jesus Christ who died for their sins so that they may live by grace and love. They believe that by works and goodness you shall not burn. They believe that only their group and no other, that they know of, are going to heaven. They believe that they are Biblically correct in taking upon themselves more wives. They believe in beating children with love with the rod. They believe wives have no rights in spiritual matters except what their husbands teach them. The Fish Group is known to have disciplined their wives.
Darwin Fish tells his employees, group, whatever that they must leave and divorce their wives if they do not come under their submission by moving by the cult and abide by the administration of spankings of children. Darwin Fish, to this date has not made his followers who have left their wives to pay child support, therefore, these men who do not pay child support are in sin?
Darwin Fish has not answered a very imporant question:
Darwin Fish, you possibly plan to move to where it is legal to have more than one wife. Will you lust after this wife before you marry her.
Darwin Fish: second question: Are you going to abide by your own rules and give two or more of your daughters to the same man who will be in your group to be their wives and carry forth your seed?
Darwin Fish: You do not believe in birth control, you want to replentish the earth, this idea came up about the time your wife is not supposed to have more children.
Answer, is this your desire for you to have two wives and if so, will you give two of your daughters in marriage to the same person. You are a Devil, A Pig, and you will be chased into the past with all the like you. You are demon possessed and all those who follow you are in danger of being demon possessed.
Guys down there, think about this, you are working your buns off all week, you left some of your kids. Dont you think its kind of weird , you not supporting or seeing your kids everyday, every night, and Darwin Fish is out there rocking his babies and playing soccer and ball everyday and praying over their dinner together and schooling together and its a happy family for him, while you are obeying his every command and miserable. Come on, be your own persons@ You are smarter than that. The only person who can turn you around is the real God, the real Jesus Christ who you have turned your back on and throwed his grace and love back at him and said, no thanks, I serve Darwin Fish and I must hate my brother and serve hate. Did you see yourselves down at the Rose Parade? Thats not God, thats flower children, flower power, old hippies getting a kick out of protesting, you like being a protester. Goodness, go protest against Darwin Fish and all the AntiChrist movements in America....Go, feed the hungry, with food and the Grace and Love of Jesus Christ, study the word Salvation, do you know what it means? I implore you group, read all your Bible, even if you must hide to do it. God has sent his Comforter, the Holy Spirit to teach when there is no teacher, He will bring you into His full knowledge.
David , Casey, Matt, Al, whoever has not been on this web, God help you see what this really is. Darwin Fish is full of hatred and possessed with jealousy and bitterness at his old church. He may not be so dangerous now, but look, other leaders you read about that went this way started off nice too, and then, women, drnk, drugs, poison, fire, guns, death......pray on your knees before God, ask Him for the right way. If you feel guilty about praying about Darwin Fish to God, then you know you are following the wrong man, Jesus Christ is the Living God, The Word, The Comforter, The only Messiah. Pray, everyone of you, that are seeking God in His fullness. My posts are going away shortly. I will go to Al Sotos site soon and Caseys, Matt is anon, and Rita is gone, I want to rise above all this , to the point of giving up Al, David, Csey, and Matt and even Darwin to their evil ways. I hope the person above me will take over so that I only have to read and not write anything and I hope they get help, its a hard thing, keeping sin exposed , it aches your heart and bones.

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Anonymous

Saturday, January 04, 2003 - 02:37 pm
"They believe in beating children with love with the rod."

Do you not believe in spanking your children in love with the rod as the Bible teaches?

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 01:08 pm
How does the Bible teach? Do you tie them up and whip them? Do you beat them as if you were a cruel slave owner? How does the Bible teach you personlly to use this rod in what position and how hard? Do you leave black and blue marks on your child?
Do you beat your child with anger and hatred for his sinning? Have you called your social worker to get a state ordered description of how to beat a child with a rod in Califonia? Why dont you go to a bar and drink, therefore, not taking it out on your babies and wife. Do you believe that you should have a mind altering drug inside your body, brain, spirit, while you are swinging that rod.
Get off the beating deal, Matt. Al would sign his name. David and Casey are locked up in cages of sorts, ha. So, are you Matt. Wheres Scott, is he somewhere out there? Any former members who will stand with us in giving us more information.
My, My, boys, little boys, why in the world dont you go protest cloning babies between lesbians, or just cloning, or abortin, or war, if you are too chicken to fight for your nation, just beat your babies. By the way, do you believe in fighting for your country. This junk about moving from the country to have more wives is illegal in Gods eyes and the land. God planted you here, not to move to sin and have a sex orgy. You are all in sin, sin, sin.
Spankings, I have yet to hear David, Casey, Darwin, Al tell how they were raised. Lets hear it Casey, Did Rita Bryant beat you with a rod? David, Did your father beat you? Darwin, did you Mother and Father beat you with a rod of love? Al, we know about you....
You are all spoiled brats who were given too much, too fast, and bored with your lives and self seeking lustful creatures of the anit christ.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 04:42 pm
My name is not Matt...Mam/Mr. you failed to answer my questions about the Scriptures already posted. How do you apply them? Maybe I should be asking if you are a Christian, because you really don't sound like one.

Yes, I believe it is right for a believer to go into war. You seem very angry and full of hate. Your language is also very gross. Is this not what you have a problem with the Fish group? You are coming across like a hypocrite. Please answer the question.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:12 pm
mam.....hey bro, you still cant spell.
I do hate what you stand for. I hate what you are doing. Unlike some, I do not have to answer to you. My language is gross? I am not the one who wants to have sex with several wives, beat their kids with rods of love,
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS
I hope to divide and break down your cult with whatever measure I have too, if you dont like the way I talk, turn it off.
You are leacherous pigs filled with demon fish. Take that! From a Christian.
By the way, since when did you have any use whatsoever for Christians....no one is a Christian except you and three more, plus kids, i guess, unless they willfully sin at six and eight months and get beat with sticks from you, the big christian in the sky....hey, saints out there, these guys actually believe babies can go to hell and burn at age under one year old! Can you believe it? Me gross? I will take gross anytime over their perverted hearts.
So, you will go to war, thats good. A plus for you all. Hope you can go fight for our country like our sons and daughters of America are supposed to.
Sir, I wont ever have to be judged by you, Thank God. Remember, the other day, you wanted to talk about David....go read some of his words, was he a hyprocrite? Hey, you dont answer my questions about beating babies seven months old, nor do you answer about throwing your wife out back door,
neither do any of you MEN OF WAR answer whether, when you are taking these extra wifes, will you be giving two each of your daughters.......I am gross? THINK GROSS
You sir, miss, are justTRYING to use my y tactics to try to get people not to listen to me by dividing and getting them to not like my language, I am better, smarter and much more talented with brain than all of you put together and I am a woman....know why I am smarter....cause I can read the Bible and it does not speak your words of wisdom about God hating me......Now, if you talked like me, you would think you were going straight to hell, right, without another chance, thank God for God.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and GRACE

Do you acually know what a Christan is?

Explain your version of Christian?

What makes and keeps you a Christian?

PRAISE GOD FOR THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS THAT WASHES ME WHITE AS SNOW WHEN I CANNOT WORK HARD ENOUGH, DO ENOUGH, SAY ENOUGH, OR BE GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE IT ON MY OWN.
PRASIE THE NAME OF JESUS WHO DIED FOR MY SINS. PRAISE THE NAME OF JESUS WHO I CAN REPENT TOO AS MANY TIMES AS I HAVE TO WHILE I GROW AND MATURE IN HIS NAME OF LOVE. PRAISE THE NAME OF THE HOLY GHOST WHO ABIDES IN ME, FILLS ME WITH HIS PRESENCE AND GIVES ME STRENGTH TO FIGHT YOUR CULT DAY TO DAY. THANK GOD FOR A PERFECT FATHER IN HEAVEN AND IN ME AND AROUND ME THAT KEEPS ME SAFE FROM THE HATE YOU ACCUSE ME OF.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
YOU ALL ARE PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS....IN THE NAME OF FISH.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:31 pm
To the post dated Jan 6, 2003 1:08 PM. Please answer this man/woman's question. He/she is beating it in the ground. Asking it over and over again. To the above post if you have a point, make it!!!!!!!
Yes the bible says Spare the rod and spoil the child. Yes God gives parents permission to physically discipline their children. Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes. For goodness sakes man. But he did not give permission to brutally beat children or to beat infants at all. Now you're going to want to know what we think a rod is. A rod is a stick or switch in my opinion. Is that enough? Why do you keep asking the same thing over and over again? What is your point? Of course the members of a true church are going to use the bible to justify the idea of beating a child, no matter how severe. It is a bible based cult. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:35 pm
Sorry I was speaking to the posts dated Jan 6 1:08 and 4:42

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 09:42 pm
To the third post above mine. You said it better than I could have. You know if he/she posts here again you don't have to answer at all. Speak to someone else or just in general. He has to be one of that group because he sounds a little strange asking the same thing over and over again.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 10:10 pm
The person who stated that someone sounded gross seems to be a little hypocritical himself. He said the person didn't sound christian. It is he who doesn't sound Christian. People have a right to speak here and give information as they choose. If the person who does not like "gross" talk is so offended, I do believe he is free to leave anytime and not return. But because I also believe he is a member of a true church in disguse. (I say disguise because he has not sent anyone to hell yet) And when he does, it will be a sure give away. If he is a member of a true church, he was sent here by Dawrin Fish. Dawrin Fish and his true church members cannot be reasoned with because they think their false gospel is correct and everyone else is doomed to hell. (How surprised they are going to be on the last day). So I would advice anyone else posting here to ignore Mr "I hate gross talk." When he sees no one is paying him any mind, maybe he will just disappear.

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Anonymous

Monday, January 06, 2003 - 11:30 pm
Well, I guess I will answer my own questions.

Yes the Bible teaches Biblical discipline and yes with a rod (i.e. a paddle). I'm sorry to read the post from the "woman" who thinks she has proven anything to anyone by screaming so much (Just a bunch of bla, bla, that I just skip). Are you trying to convince someone? You are not very effective in that area.

It is also seems that you Mrs. need to take another shower, it seems to me that your "white" snow looks a little yellow to me.

So, anyone else want to converse with me in a sober manner let me know. I still would like some insight in this child discipline issue. I stand behind the verses that were posted, law of the land or not, although I know that the law of the land does not forbid corporal punishment.

PS. I also agree and believe anyone who wants to marry or have sex with another woman while already married is sick too.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 01:22 am
Proverbs 20
30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 11:01 am
Proverbs 13:24
He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

The issue is very clear and simple. Those of you who are teaching that you should NOT use the rod to discipline your child are teaching hate. Hatred toward your children. And if these same people are saying they are Christians, then Christ calls them liars.

1 John 2:
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This is serious and should be taken so. Do you think you are above correction yourself, are you so proud that you refuse to listen to ANY correction? Do you know that the Bible calls you stupid you if you hate correction?

Proverbs 12
1 Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge,
But he who hates correction is stupid.

His wonderful word has given us guidence on how to live and raise our children. You speak against this word, you speak against God.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 01:02 pm
To the post Jan 6, 11;30 PM, WILL YUO CARRY ON FOR ME IF I GO AND JUST WATCH..

to the darwin fish group: When Casey Bryant went and got a two inch stick and took his child into the bathroom to beat it, he lost the right to his child. This child was seven months old. Any man who beats a seven month old child with a two inch stick should be put in jail, and never have communication with that child again until such time as he has proven himself a fit father.
Matt should continue with his social service visits to keep his children safe.
Darwin Fish needs to use some of that money his boy toys are giving him for marriage and child rearing classes from a Christian leader, using the Word of God for Love.
David, go home to your family. You know you want to.
Al, I will continue to pray that you burst out of this place and bring the others with you away from the cult leader, Darwin Fish.
Casey, I am in contact with your Mother again, she has not got her internet hooked up. She and all the family want you home, the feast awaits.
GOODBYE FROM BOSWELL......

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 01:10 pm
BOSWELL,

How do you apply the vereses in regards to child discpline?

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 03:43 pm
Boswell,

How did you apply the verses on child discipline?

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Anonymous

Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 11:42 pm
I am posting to the church with Fish as a leader. You have been accused of things and you never answer. It would be interesting to get some answers. Are there men who have left their families and not paying child support? How hard and how young are the children paddled? Are you really thinking of pologamy as a way of life if it were legal? Do you really think that a lot of pastors and churches are going to hell, such as Billy Graham, and others? I have read all the posts and you seem only to answer questions that you feel like answering, which is fine, but you are not putting the best light on your church. Do you really protest churches.
How do you apply the verses on child discipine above. Is this your church posting or stranger? Theres a lot of verses in the Bible. Do you take them all literally? A lot of people are reading, not many answer. Kind of like a little journal.
To Boswell, please don't go. Just tone down and tune in. A friend of all, anonymous and interested in this website along with my friends. ps, we get these questions between us. How did Moses write about his own death? Did the sun stand still for Joshua, what happened, did the earth stop moving, what happened to gravity. Another really important subject to us is the word hell. Can you tell us anywhere in the Bible that the wicked are going to be punished forever and forever with everlasting burning fire? The only place I find in the Bible about this kind of punishment is in Rev where those who have received the mark of the beast were tormented in the presence of the Lamb and the angels and the smoke of the torment ascended forever and ever. Later in Rev, all the dead and hell and death were cast into the fire which is the second death.
Do you think its all literal, so many things to read. Like the rod with the Psalms scripture, we are debating the word paddle, where does it say its a paddle? What is a rod? A rod and the staff compfort me. To me, a rod is for protection and the staff is to pull me closer to God, they both protect me. So if my Father who loves me so much beats me with this paddle when i am young, I dont know as I would want to be protected by God with His rod. Do you get it? Is everything literal? We are mixed at what is literal and what is figurative. That was a big ps, sorry.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 12:47 am
I posted on Jan 4, 6:16 am. The tone has not changed for some of you. The person who has asked so many questions has the right to an answer weather the rest of us think he is a member of this group or not. And I have looked more at the website of theres and I did not read that this Darwin character thinks he is the mesiah or anything. This does not necessarily mean he did not say or write it somewhere else, but I personnaly would want to be cautious to throw accusations around. The bible calls this slander. It is bad. And accusations about the Al guy throwing his wife around and stuff. A police report or first hand testimony is one thing, but to repeat it over and over is another matter if you do not have proof. And the (ugly?) Matt guy with CPS reports of abuse. Has someone here seen such a written report or talked to someone who has seen such thing. If not, it can be dangerous heresay. If so, then it is easy to document in a post, even leaving the name of a social service reprasentive or courthouse, etc. Matt, if you are still out there, feel free to write something in your defense. If you have such a report writeen about you, it would be of now harm to share it with all of us. How could it hurt the situation. Just give us your story. We want to hear from you, or Al or David or Casey and others about matters. Child support, mesiah stuff, abuse, polygamy, etc. Let's hear it from ANYONE with FIRST HAND KNOWLEDEG (caps do not mean loud cussing here, only brief emphaisis) I hope my tone has not offended because I do claim to be a Christian and I know Jesus does not want me to cuss, shout uncontrolabbly, slander, or even misquote anyone. He is after all, the Truth. Amen?

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 01:09 am
Please Please post on the front section of this forum and not here. It takes so long for my computer to load to get to the board because of so many posts. You're still posting in the archive section of 2002.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 02:20 am
OK, I am going to respond to the lastes post on the new forum, and no longer here. Just click on the link at the very top for those of you wondering how, that part that says,

God's Word Fellowship / A True Church / Darwin Fish

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 07:44 pm
To the post who wants us to post on new board, will do soon. Slander? Please read Al Sotos answer to Rita Bryant at the first of these messages and you will see who slanders who. Yes, I will post social service reports when paperwork finished, these things can change lives and we would like for Fish to give us some encouragment that he does not paddle seven month olds, there is first hand knowledge on this website about pologomy, there is no first hand knowledge yet about Al, something Al
told Caseys wife as he was also calling her a whore, stubborn and going to hell with her baby if she did not move to Fishes church area. She did not move. Again, this is a young, tiny, woman with a baby. Three or four, counting Casey Bryant, went into her home and took all her furnishings and fridge, and food from fridge, took the wood outside and left this girl who has been married only one year with this baby with her unworking Mom and disabled step dad who lives in a one bedroom unit. Slander, we call them callious and unGodly belhavior for someone who calls theirselves Chritians. Casey Bryant should be told by his pastor Fish to do the right thing. That is to pay child support, also reinburse her for the furnishings and items they took....and sold at a garage sale, (why did they not just sell it off the front porch , instead of renting uhaul....they sold all this stuff at a garage sale....in Bakersfield, i think...Can you all try to imagine the pain in this womans heart, watching Fish, Al, Soto, David and Casey just carrying her whole life out to a uhaul? And leaving her there with thirty dollars?

Al, I notice you still do not like to answer any questions unless you have answers.

Thirty Dollars , no house, no food, no car, no parents with money, Casey Bryant abondoned his family, and he needs to repent to God and his wife and child.

To the above posts who challenges all my accusations, in my opinion, someday, Darwin Fish will start to teach that he is the Messiah, because he has already been called as great as an apostle by followers, Al Soto , mainly..

Matt can post his own Social Services details, they will show the truth, and he is dealing with the truth, I cant do anymore than they are and he cant sue me for the truth. Go look or call yourself if you want details about bruises and black eyes on children in that home, in my opinion, they could have come from him.

Davids wife did leave him because he was abusing her mentally, and she did not want any part of it. Ask David, he will tell you that, if hes not a liar. Course, we just read on the web that Casey, Darwin, and David will not be answering the blah, blah, blah, person.
Cowards? They call people fearful, cowards, stubborn, hmmmmmm.

Can they prove anywhere in the Bible that polomogy is ok anywhere in the world you are living if you are a Christian?

I notice that in the posts the group says that if the law of the land said they could not beat their children, they would anyway, is that my slander, or are they lying? Does this also apply to pologomy, it is against the law of the land and they will not obey the one law, so why this one, or any one?

God Bless all of you in the fish group, you are my enemies and I will pray for and love you. And you will be desroyed spritually by the Blood of the Lamb, so not to be wasted on the ground, but rather so we can be saved by grace.

Casey Bryants wife is now on welfare and food stamps and living on a mattress in her mothers livng room with a baby in possibly a six by six space. Lets ask Casey if that is what he promised in his marriage vows, if he were with her, she wouldnt mind a bit, so says she to Rita Bryant, her Mother in Law, Caseys Mom.
Casey did pay her forty dollars for five months since hes been gone, now what does Fish think about that? five months, 150 days, forty into 150...oh, but then, word of mouth has it that he has borrowed three hundred from her on his trips to tell her that she is going to hell if she doesnt move down there....so, all you people out there, why dont we challenge fish on this point, does Casey Bryant need to make child support payments and support that child, pay that debt of three hundred dollars and then preach his new found tidings of hate and hell to her.

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Anonymous

Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 11:37 pm
why does Al respond to Phil Johnson, but not to the others? Al has not responded to many questions previously posted. Interesting...could it be that Phil has struck a nerve?

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Phil Johnson

Friday, January 10, 2003 - 01:03 pm
Al Soto "tries" again:

> We do not advocate beating infants as young as 7 months
> old nor beating wives. As I said. This is ridiculous.
> The slander on this site just proves to us how wicked
> you people are in your evil speaking (Titus 3:1).

Why don't you send me tapes of Darwin's teaching about how to use "the rod" in disciplining children, so I can hear for myself? Because I have talked to former members of your sect, and one thing they invariably bring up is the issue of how brutal Darwin is with his own children, and how that sort of thing seems to be expected of all cult members. Casey Bryant's wife claims Casey was prepared to--and threatened to--beat their infant after sitting at Darwin's feet for a while. Are you saying that absolutely did not happen, and that Darwin absolutely does not bruise his own kids?

> Here's a good example of Phil's presumptuous character:
> He writes, "You BEGAN by promising to answer my direct
> questions . . ." I never promised any such thing.

Well, you did begin your first reply by saying:

> I will attempt to answer the questions that were
> posted."

But I forgot: you people are taught that being "wise as serpents" means you can play games with the boundaries of truth. So your yes doesn't really mean yes. Your "I will try" doesn't really mean you will make an _honest_ try. Your word isn't a "promise." Forgive me for my "presumption" in assuming otherwise.

> You will always believe whom you wish to believe and
> nothing I say will change whom you believe. I must laugh
> at how you have swallowed so many half-truths about us,
> but so be it.

Well, actually, you don't really have any grounds to know if I "swallowed" anything or not, do you? I merely asked you some questions. And by being deliberately evasive with your answers to mine and others' direct questions, you only encourage people to believe the many disturbing reports about what goes on inside your cult. Since your group's public behavior is so deplorable as well, there's really little reason for anyone to give you the benefit of the doubt. I am certainly under no biblical obligation to regard you as true Christians and brethren, because you give every evidence that you are not--with your words, your actions, and the twisted message of hate you proclaim in place of the gospel.

Regarding Christ's _taking on_ the form of a man, you say:

> Yes, that is a true statement but we also know that He
> took on the form of man many times before that, which is
> also true.

Precisely. Bingo. Why would He need to _take on_ such a form if He exists eternally in human form?

> Yes I believe God is our Rock (1 Cor 10:4)

Since what I asked was whether you believe He is literally an inanimate stone, I hope no one misses the significance and the utter absurdity of your "yes."

> Yes skip over the Limited Atonement lie, because you
> HAVE TO IGNORE countless verses.

Of yourse, you know that I don't ignore those verses. I have taught at one time or another on virtually all of them. And *I* know, of course, that you would disagree with my interpretation of those verses. So you could easily sidetrack this whole discussion into a long drawn-out debate over those issues. No doubt that is what you were trying to do in the first place. It isn't going to work, and your bringing up such a red herring only further diminishes your own credibility. So let's just skip that and stay with the issues of this forum, OK?

> Once again you show your folly by putting so much trust
> in what you "hear".

As I have shown already, what I have heard directly from YOU is sufficient to dispel your claim that you love the truth. So I don't see where I have any obligation to take your whitewashing of Darwin's errors and idiosyncasies at face value. You're a pretty good spin doctor, Al, but even you cannot cover the cultic nature of "a.t.c." and Darwin Fish.

> I have responded to hopefully dispel some of the
> slander. I believe this forum to be a bunch of scoffers,
> therefore I do not plan to continue to post (Proverbs
> 9:7).

It kills me how you guys taunt people to refute you, but when someone actually does, you label him a scoffer, make a big show of brushing the dust off your feet, and slink away to regroup until your next blitzkrieg against another public forum or large gathering of people. Some "ministry" you people have! All you are doing is preying on dysfunctional minds.

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Anonymous

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:04 pm
Well, let me try again:

We do not advocate beating infants as young as 7 months old nor beating wives. As I said. This is ridiculous. The slander on this site just proves to us how wicked you people are in your evil speaking (Titus 3:1).

Here's a good example of Phil's presumptuous character: He writes, "You BEGAN by promising to answer my direct questions . . ." I never promised any such thing.

Let me try to put to rest another point about me throwing my wife out the door. Yes, early on in our marriage, my wife and I did not get along at times, nor live above reproach, and to my shame I threw her out the door. That was many years ago, and we do not live like that any more. We have grown tremendously (in our love and in Christ) since those immature days. I told this to Casey's wife as a confession and example that we are not perfect people, but have grown very much. There is no excuse for that, it was not love, and it was sin.

Phil states,
"Eyewitness accounts are not rumors. In the mouth of two or three witnesses, a matter is established (Matthew 18:16)."

Proverbs 21
28 A false witness shall perish, But the man who hears him will speak endlessly.

Proverbs 19:5
A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who speaks lies will not escape.

You will always believe whom you wish to believe and nothing I say will change whom you believe. I must laugh at how you have swallowed so many half-truths about us, but so be it.

Phil states,
"Furthermore, "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), and "a spirit hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)."

1 Corinthians 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." [4]The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord [5]from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear [6]the image of the heavenly Man.

Christ, the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Christ is Spirit just as God the father IS spirit, but you and I both know that Christ is also Man who has flesh and bones. Christ is both spirit and a man just as God the father is. Anyhow our article stands for itself.

"say Christ deemed equality with God nothing to be grasped and _took on_ the form of a man. "

Yes, that is a true statement but we also know that He took on the form of man many times before that, which is also true.

Yes I believe God is our Rock (1 Cor 10:4)

Yes skip over the Limited Atonement lie, because you HAVE TO IGNORE countless verses.

"No. I was just trying to assume the best. I have heard from people who know you that you have occasionally given evidence of conscience-pangs, and that you seem frustrated at times with your role of having to defend all of Darwin's whims and absurdities while he allows you to take the heat in a forum like this and hasn't the courage to answer direct questions that are put to him. My remark reflected an attempt to assume better of you than you have evidenced."

Once again you show your folly by putting so much trust in what you "hear".

I have responded to hopefully dispel some of the slander. I believe this forum to be a bunch of scoffers, therefore I do not plan to continue to post (Proverbs 9:7).

Proverbs 14
7Go from the presence of a foolish man, When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge.

Al Soto has left the building.........

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A TRUE CHURCH

Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 01:06 pm
THOSE WANTING TO KNOW WHAT "a true church" really believes visit our web site at http://www.atruechurch.info call 800-HOW-TRUE or email us

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Joshua Seek

Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 04:59 pm
Rita, I have recently encountered this destructive and cultic group. I will pray for you, your daughter-in-law, and your son that he will see the error of his ways.

God bless!

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Anonymous

Monday, February 10, 2003 - 10:52 pm
JOSHUA.....HARD TO FIND YOU, I THINK YOU ARE IN THE ARCHIVE.....THANKS FOR WRITING.
THIS IS NOT RITA, OF COURSE, BUT TELL US MORE, WE NEED TO KNOW HOW YOU ENCOUNTERED THEM SO THAT WE MIGHT HELP OTHERS.
RITA HAS BEEN IN THE HOSPITAL WITH EMERGENCY SURGERY....ISNT IT SAD, HER OWN SON DOES NOT KNOW THIS, OF COURSE , UNTIL HIS WIFE FINDS OUT AND CALLS HIM....SO MANY LOVED ONES MISSING OUT ON THIER FAMILIES LOVE....WE NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU.
IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN ONLY TALKING TO RITA, YOU MAY EMAIL HER AT REET_BRYANT@YAHOO.COM THAT UNDERSCORE IS CATCHING SO WATCH THAT _ BYE FOR NOW....THEY ======THEM=====THEY CALL ME BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.....CAUSE I BELIEVE IN SALVATION, GRACE, LOVE, THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS, GODS MERCY! SEE YA!

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Anonymous

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 08:30 pm
Hello, everyone -

I'm posting as anonymous for what is probably an obvious reason to Kate & Rita and countless others. You may call me Bill.

I am sending this message to all who are NOT members of A True Church. After reading so many posts by everyone, I am certain that they will not be able to answer in an objective manner...and yet I'm sure that I'll be told I'm going to hell for that as well. :-)

I am a friend of a family who's relative was recently recruited by this cult. The person's family is worried about their family member...and they are worried about the behavior of these people. I am posting this message to ask if anyone knows whether law enforcement has had to be involved with any of these cult members. In some ways, they remind me of the Manson family - and I am worried for all these people. Does anyone know whether any member of this cult has been arrested for anything?

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Anonymous

Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 04:44 am
Please post where the most recent posts are. You are posting in the archives. Some people may miss your post if you post here.

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Scott Steward

Monday, April 28, 2003 - 08:17 pm
My name is Scott Steward,
I am the OWNER of the site that was sited in one of the posts above http:///www.whatisgwf.com/agenda.html in expose of the cult "A True Church" (formerly "God's Word Fellowship"). I have since removed my website from the info highway due to the expence and time commitment and lack of know how in doing the site the way I really want to. However, I am in the prosses of developing a new website with the help and personal guidence from a friend of mine. But, if anyone wants my old files for reference please feel free to email me at stewardsp@yahoo.com and I will send them your way. They are a little out dated since the cult has now unvieled some of their most erronious and ludicrous teachings of today such as "polygamy", the condoning of "alcoholism", and the latest claim that they "know of no other true church". These along with sound clips from audio tapes recorded live in Darwin's home will be ready available soon at a website for which I cannot reveal at the moment due to development. But again, if anyone thinks my old file might help, email me. Darwin and his group are dangerous, they have murderous hearts and they are (as was the main concern on the original post of this thread) abusive to children.

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Anonymous

Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 12:36 pm
Can someone please explain to me what this church is about?
What are it's principles, aims goals?
Why is it dangerous?
Are there poeple for and against here? Or it is it an anti drawin Church site?

Thanks

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Calvinist

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 07:00 pm
Yes there is one known site that offers some great info on God's Word Fellowship. It can be found here:

http://www.gty.org/%7Ephil/articles/dfishfaq.htm

Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as revealed in the Scripture alone to the glory of God alone.

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Anonymous

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:21 pm
Good Evening to the post above that wants to know if this is an anti-Fish posting board.
This posting board, if you will go back to the first post is from a Rita Bryant telling how her son was attracted to this group at a Billy Graham meeting. He left his wife who would not go with him and his new baby to go live by Fish. He took about eight months doing this all the time trying to brainwash his wife. The final straw came when he took the baby in the bathroom with a stick and was going to spank the seven month old child. The Mother told him she would call the police and he did not proceed to beat the child with the stick. We believe firmly as did the Mother at that time that this was a direct order/teaching of Darwin Fish that would have in the past been something Casey Bryant would not have ever done. Even in the weeks and days before he left he did not harm his wife physically, only emotially and spiritually. I say spiritually because heresay has it that she doesnt want another thing to do with God. This comes from a sad, heartbroken child of God. We all must pray for her spiritual healing as well as emotional and their marriage, however that turned out. And for the baby who will never know its father in the normal way.

Yes, I would say this is an anti Darwin Fish site and if you will go our of the archives you will see many posts and links that will give you a full insight into the cult lead by Darwin Fish and one of the group leaders, Al Soto who came on board on the second posts to answer Rita Bryant as did her own son, Casey Bryant.
We have since seen on the different websites the scriptures that prove they believe in bringing to the bruise on the child, wife submission, teaching on pologomy, totally in favor of sexual release by masturbation, and getting rid of wives and children who are do not obey. And, you will be amazed and astounded at their Bibical jibbish nonsense about God being a man and all kinds of herisy.
We hope you will study everything carefully and come on board to help destroy this false prophet Darwin Fish. sincerely, Sam

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Anonymous

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:21 pm
Good Evening to the post above that wants to know if this is an anti-Fish posting board.
This posting board, if you will go back to the first post is from a Rita Bryant telling how her son was attracted to this group at a Billy Graham meeting. He left his wife who would not go with him and his new baby to go live by Fish. He took about eight months doing this all the time trying to brainwash his wife. The final straw came when he took the baby in the bathroom with a stick and was going to spank the seven month old child. The Mother told him she would call the police and he did not proceed to beat the child with the stick. We believe firmly as did the Mother at that time that this was a direct order/teaching of Darwin Fish that would have in the past been something Casey Bryant would not have ever done. Even in the weeks and days before he left he did not harm his wife physically, only emotially and spiritually. I say spiritually because heresay has it that she doesnt want another thing to do with God. This comes from a sad, heartbroken child of God. We all must pray for her spiritual healing as well as emotional and their marriage, however that turned out. And for the baby who will never know its father in the normal way.

Yes, I would say this is an anti Darwin Fish site and if you will go our of the archives you will see many posts and links that will give you a full insight into the cult lead by Darwin Fish and one of the group leaders, Al Soto who came on board on the second posts to answer Rita Bryant as did her own son, Casey Bryant.
We have since seen on the different websites the scriptures that prove they believe in bringing to the bruise on the child, wife submission, teaching on pologomy, totally in favor of sexual release by masturbation, and getting rid of wives and children who are do not obey. And, you will be amazed and astounded at their Bibical jibbish nonsense about God being a man and all kinds of herisy.
We hope you will study everything carefully and come on board to help destroy this false prophet Darwin Fish. sincerely, Sam

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Anonymous

Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:16 am
please talk to me?

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Anonymous

Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:20 am
my husband is outside banging on the house

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Anonymous

Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:22 am
no help as usual

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Anonymous

Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:37 pm
Maybe if you posted in the right place where everyone else is posting, someone might answer you.


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