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FACE OFF, CBCNewsworld's first nightly prime time debate show, was founded in 1994 by Paul Jay and Ron Haggart. The program featured hosts Judy Rebick and Claire Hoy. The show ran for five years and was the forerunner of today's counterSpin. A review is reproduced below. |
| ...Paul Jay.................Claire Hoy ...........Judy Rebick ......................Ron Haggart |
PEOPLE
The great debaters From opposite sides of the political spectrum, Claire Hoy
and Judy Rebick share a deep respect for each other's views
By Greg Enright Special to The Star
01/19/1997
The Toronto Star
Final
E1
(Copyright The Toronto Star)
On paper, it would seem impossible to get Claire Hoy and Judy Rebick to sit together in a room for 2 1/2 minutes, let alone 2 1/2 years.
Since September, 1994, however, these co-hosts of the CBC Newsworld political debate show Face Off, have done just that. Somehow, the right- wing Hoy, a longtime newspaper columnist known for his gruff style, and the left-leaning Rebick, an activist and former head of the National Action Committee on the Status of Women (NAC), have overcome their deep differences to help make the show one of the most popular current affairs programs on Canadian television.
``I don't remember having dreams about (doing this); a few nightmares perhaps,'' jokes Hoy in his typical deadpan style. ``I was more used to getting thrown out of places than being invited in.''
Each night this pair of combatants, along with two guests, go at each other on some of the touchiest issues of the day, from Quebec separatism to abortion to gun control. While both recognize they are as divergent as can be on most topics, they also share a deep respect for their counterpart's sense of conviction.
``I respect Claire because he has principles and he sticks to them,'' says the 51-year-old Rebick during a joint interview with Hoy. ``He was a right winger when it wasn't popular. He's sacrificed a lot because of his principles; he's been fired from jobs because of them.
``He's also got a sense of humor and he doesn't judge people on the basis of whether he agrees with them or not. He judges them on the basis of their character.''
Hoy reciprocates the admiration, saying: ``One thing I never accused Judy of is not believing in what she stands up for. I always thought, of course, that she was demented, but nonetheless she believes in it. I think we're very much alike in that respect.
``This might horrify her, but I think we have a lot of the same qualities. We both believe very strongly in what we believe, we're both mouthy, and we both have a long history of doing it. We've both been kicked around as a result, but here we are.''
That shared sense of determination can be seen in their desire to create an entertaining yet informative show.
``I think both of us understand that for the show to work there has to be a balance,'' says Rebick. ``It's not a competition. We both have our views, but it's still a TV show. Both guests and both hosts have to get their points across, so if one person dominates or tries to beat the other into the ground, it doesn't work.''
Hoy concurs the show is not merely a competition. ``We're both fairly secure people,'' he says. ``We're not exactly concerned about who wins the debating point. We don't go home at night and pace the floor and say `Oh god, I lost that point.' ''
``Yeah, we're both pretty sure of ourselves,'' adds Rebick. ``I don't think either one of us has to prove ourselves to anybody. We're both pretty confident in who we are and what we think.''
Rick Salutin, a Globe and Mail media critic and frequent Face Off guest, believes the show, with its high degree of conflict and debate, is not only unique to the small screen, but also within society as a whole.
``There's virtually total agreement in places of politics, in the media, even in universities,'' says Salutin, who can usually be seen supporting Rebick's left-wing point of view. ``This is one of the only places you get (disagreement). It's one of the few places left in society where a stifling, neo-conservative attitude hasn't taken over.''
Born in Reno, Nevada, Rebick's family moved to New York city when she was 3 months old, eventually landing in Toronto when she was 9. An involvement with '70s counter culture characterized her young adulthood, even having the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane stay over at her Toronto apartment. It was during this period that her core beliefs came into focus. ``I just decided things had to be changed,'' she says.
After dabbling in the world of freelancing at CBC Radio and other outlets in the mid '70s, Rebick embarked on a trip that had her roaming the globe by herself from 1979 to 1980, visiting Europe, Israel, India, Turkey and Hong Kong, among other places.
From there, Rebick drifted naturally into a life of activism for left-wing causes, culminating in her NAC presidency from 1990 to 1993.
Hoy arrived on the set of Face Off after a lengthy newspaper career characterized by fervent outspokenness and firings from The Star in 1974 and the Toronto Sun in 1988. The dismissals, Hoy says, resulted from an unwillingness to stifle his true thoughts.
In typical understated tone, the father of five says, ``I tend to say what I think.''
The Prescott, Ont., native's pitbull- like style has earned him more than a few enemies, most notably Brian Mulroney. While covering the ex-prime minister's reign during the 1980s for The Sun, he quickly became one of Mulroney's most hated press gallery members.
``I was hosting a political debate show on CBC Radio in Ottawa with (author and noted Mulroney-basher) Stevie Cameron,'' recounts Hoy. ``One of our people asked Mulroney's aide when he was going to finally come on the show. `When you get those two off the air!' was his reply.''
While Rebick and Hoy didn't meet until a guest appearance on the Shirley show in 1991, they had attacked each other in the media, especially Hoy through his columns.
``I've taken lots of shots at Judy over the years,'' he says. ``She was a really
good target.''
When the idea came up to put Face Off together in 1992, CBC producers searched
for two people with firm opinions and wide differences, but also the ability
to get along and offer viewers a productive debate. Hoy was chosen first, and
after trying out various potential co-hosts, Rebick was auditioned and immediately
seen as the perfect complement. She had been working at the University of Regina
as a lecturer prior to coming aboard.
``When they started this, Judy had a contract to poison young minds in Saskatchewan,'' jokes Hoy. ``We were trying out a whole series of potential hosts on the other side, but when Judy's name came up I was quite pleased about it. When we did our first (rehearsal), everybody knew right away that that was it.''
Executive producer Paul Jay was one of the people responsible for finding that perfect combination, and he echoes Hoy's thoughts.
``There was a very quick chemistry between them,'' he says. ``They're both very strong, tough arguers and they know how to brawl. Because of that, it was difficult to find people to match with one or the other because they were usually a little overpowering. It took them some time to find the rapport they have now, but right from the beginning they were able to go toe-to- toe and feel they could give as good as they got.''
Sometimes that rapport works so well that the two find themselves on the same side of issues.
``We don't shy away from (agreeing),'' says Hoy. ``There aren't any phony divisions for the sake of having a division. Our differences are genuine, and if we agree we're not afraid to say that. You couldn't have a show every night where everybody was agreeing with each other, but there are a lot of issues that we would agree on from totally different points of view. We would come to the same conclusion, but for a totally different reason.''
A mutual sense of humor also helps smooth out some conflicting beliefs.
``They both have a self-deprecating humor,'' says Jay. ``Claire often takes
a shot at himself, and so does Judy. They also share a kind of enraged humor.
They both hate hypocrisy, and when they see it they go for the jugular, often
with wit and humor.''
Hoy also tries to extend that sense of levity to his guests. ``A sense of humor
is important,'' he says. ``For a lot of people who come on the show on my side,
there's nothing that a little humility and a little sense of humor wouldn't
cure. Some of the well-known people on the right are pretty bloody serious.''
While both hosts agree their relationship is a good working one, they also are quick to add that it doesn't spill over outside the show.
``We travel in different circles,'' says Hoy. ``I go to ball games, stuff like that. Judy goes off to meetings. Do you think she'd invite me out to a place where all her friends are? I don't think so.''
Rebick and Hoy are, however, pleased with how the show has developed and plan to keep facing off for a while.
`I think that the show is a great model for political debate,'' says Rebick. ``I think people are often afraid of political debate. Often on the CBC, they want to have people that aren't too divergent in views because they don't want a screaming match. Our show illustrates that you can have very divergent views and still have a productive debate. I think it makes a contribution that way in that we look at a lot of issues that other people don't.''
Hoy shares Rebick's belief in the show, saying: ``We both have a lot of energy and a lot of views to get out there, and this is the perfect forum for it. It's extraordinary. I've been doing this all my life and now that somebody actually wants to put it on TV is beyond me. There are not too many things that I would enjoy doing more.''