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Village Square : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.2 Village Square > Diary of a Nigerian Immigrant > Nigerian Life in the Diaspora > Corporal punishment
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spinnelli
Ogboologbo Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 73

Corporal punishment

Berta, this is for you.

So anyway, I was watching some movie yesterday, I forgot the name. It was sha centered around child abuse, i.e., physical abuse of children.

As I was watching the scenes that depicted the so called abuse, I just bursted out laughing because it reminded me of what my mom use my eye to see back home in naija. I think I have been whipped by everything imaginable on this earth. Shoes ni o, spatula, pankere, blahla, sticks...the list goes on and on. Inspite of all these, I think I grew up to be a normal kid. I don't have sucidical thoughts or homicidal thoughts...well..except against my boss, but that one be another tory. I don't have pent up rage, I never wanted to shoot the kids in my class in high school and I don't go around touching little boys.

It got me thinking that about the differences in American/European culture and Nigerian culture. If Americans/Europeans experienced half of the corporal punishment my ass suffered in Nigeria both from my parents and teachers, many of their kids will be fucked up beyond recognition.

Can some of you share your experience with this? and what makes us so "strong" and people from other cultures "weak"?. Is it even a matter of strength? Is the lack of "proper home training"(as my mother use to say) the reason why kids in America act out so much? Is spanking your kids a good thing?

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Old Post 02-02-2004 02:51 PM
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maverixz
Technogeek

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Midwest
Posts: 59

Dont whip the ass and create a spoilt child. I am a preacher and proponent of "Spare the rod and spoil the child" theme. Yes the absence of ass whipping is what has made alot of Western kids act out so much. I can't even imagine talking back to my parents talkless of hitting or cursing them out like many western kids do today. I remember an occasion when I was in high school and I got smart with my literature teacher (I had a major crush on the dame), she called my dad who came to my school and whipped my black behind in front of my class mates.

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Old Post 02-02-2004 03:54 PM
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Sola
Admin

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 756

You folks think you can compare notes along this line? Huh, una no know anything o! My mom and my immediate brother... The battle would start in the living room and end with him in the bathroom, door slammed and bolted, both of them screaming at the top of their lungs. As for me, my dad occasionally used his belt, but it was his fist that took the cake. Never in the face though... And you know how our parents give you warnings upon warnings, those head shaking kind that was a sign that you were accumulating this thing and it was going to have to explode in your face someday? My father would go on and on warning me and then his rage would bubble over like that cauldron in Shakespeare's Macbeth. Those moments always had me under the bed before the beating ceased. Often I ran completely out of the house and stayed outdoors late into the night until a neighbor followed me home to plead for me. I could tell you stories folks...

I think those things keep us level headed and grounded today.

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Old Post 02-02-2004 05:55 PM
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Nozza
Ogbonge Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 39

This isn't a uniquely Nigerian thing, I think it's a black thing. I think many of us around a certain age went through a variety of punishments that we would never forget, but they didn't adversely damage us. Once a few friends and I were chatting and laughing about our diverse punishments as children, and the white folk present were horrified. They said that was abuse, and we looked puzzled - abuse? That was normal! Yet here we were years after the fact, normal and functional members of society. Why is it that our punishments often seem so hilarious after the fact? Man they hurt like hell at the time, even the thought of it makes me wince!

I was a good child and I always used to plead innocent. I mean, I never did anything wrong so I don't know nor understand why I got punished. Like for trying to sneak the condensed milk out of the tin and accidentally leaving it to run out inside the fridge. Or those matches that I left on the stove as I lit it and played with the fire. And let's not talk about those toxic substances I accidentally drank on more than one occasion.....

It did teach me a few things:
(1) always cover your tracks properly when committing a crime and don't abandon your crime midway into it. Give yourself enough time to make good your escape;
(2) make sure your mother/father is too far away from the scene of the crime and don't burn the hair on the back of your hands. The smell is a dead giveaway; and
(3) everything in a bottle doesn't necessarily taste good. The smell alone should tell you that kerosene is going to taste bad

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Old Post 02-02-2004 07:13 PM
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cxsm
Joyous member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 470

Running never did the trick for me. I remember once telling my classmates that I was tired of being whooped and someone had this 'kind' advice of asking me to run. Yeah! like it would work.

The very first time I tried it, my Mum locked me up in the backyard and told me to let her know when I was done running so she could open the door and I'd still get my whooping. Let's just say that was my first and last attempt at running from a whooping (deserved or NOT).

Like Spinelli said, my Mum was quite adventurous and creative as to the objects she chose to use to whoop me. I used to once wonder whether I was an alien and thus the reason for the whooping, but I grew up to understand that even aliens got a whooping.

Whooping was better than punishment, at least it was quick and over with soon enough. Stooping, standing on one leg, with both hands stretched high enough to catch an angel (if one was indeed passing by, maybe you'd be lucky enough to get his/her help) and all those other creative punishment styles were what got me. You could cry as much as you liked, expel as much phlegm as you chose, but it never seemed to work. You still got your punishment.
My younger brother was luckier, he got away with more than was due and I usually got a whooping for his misdeeds in addition to mine. No wonder I wasn't that thrilled about being the older one. Too much responsibilities and undue whooping for someone else's
misdeeds. Now when my Mum complains about something he just did, I remind her that it was 'cos he didn't get the appropriate punishment that could have detered him from harvesting the tiny seeds of misdeeds he planted long ago.

My Dad only whooped me once, and it was the very last time indeed. His misplaced anger towards me got him the silent treatment that he deserved for the undue whooping and after that he reserved the whoopings and punishment to my Mum. Both effectively made corrections as due though, and though I wasn't a problem child, it made me a better person today, plus I better understand the frustrations that sometimes accompanied the undeserved whoops, and have forgiven my Mum for them (since she was doing the best she could under the circumstances she was faced with), so I plan to whoop you all in revenge. Just kidding. That would be considered transferance in psychological terms.

Actually, I believe most children regardless of their national origin, from wherever whose parents whooped OR punished them (NOT abuse or boxed them) are better off for it.
Giving a child 'time-out' which is 'usually' nothing but time-off to play, indulge in non-useful and non-beneficial activities such as watching TV, making calls to their friends etc. does nothing to deter the child from repeating his wrongdoings. Punishing a child, even if it means asking them to do chores that are above and beyond their daily assignments, are more effective ways of disciplining a child.

Culturally, and individually parents choose to discipline their children in different ways and who's to say what will work in one household will always work in another, or that what would work for one child would work for another, especially since all kids are different. Some are hyper, some docile and some problematic, so punishment should be doled out accordingly, fairly and duly, not when the child has forgotten the act or misact, or because a parent is taking out his/her frustration on their offsprings.
Also, it's important to make the child understand the purpose of punishment, else s/he may interpret it to be dislike, hatred, etc. rather than as a form of discipline.
I suppose most of us are wise enough to learn from our parents' and others mistakes to choose that which would be effective in our own households.
I've seen enough kids spoilt because the rod was spared and some of those eventually end up on talk shows lamenting about how their parents did not discipline them enough, while most talk back to their parents and other adults.

Everyone is entitled to raise their children in which ever way they deem fit, but NO parent has a right to abuse their children. Whooping is not abuse UNLESS it is done excessively or with intent to abuse or disfigure the child. Its purpose should be to serve as a deterrent to unwanted or deviant behavior, and it should not be used to eliminate the child's existence, or to beat them into a shell of themselves, which is nothing but abuse.

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Old Post 02-02-2004 07:44 PM
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Sola
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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 756

How about those weapons of mass destruction? Some moms were good at hurling missiles. Whenever she was really pissed, the nearest thing would suddenly grow wings and head in the general direction of your anything. Duck!

Could be a spoon or side table or book. You just had to get good at getting out of the way.

The funny part is when the rage is gone, momsy will also be the one to nurse your bruises. And then she would go "you too behave yourself". Crazy times those.

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Old Post 02-02-2004 08:32 PM
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maverixz
Technogeek

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Midwest
Posts: 59

Talking of WMD, imagine being chased around by your mom with a log of wood fresh out of a fireplace and a large glowing ember at its tip.

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Old Post 02-02-2004 08:44 PM
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n/5n
Ogboologbo Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: us
Posts: 166

My parents were relatively restrained.
They preferred to talk, counsel, convince and deny privileges.
We sometimes listened.
Generally corporal punishment in our household was usually restrained.

My father preferred to find out the reason for the errant behavior.
You got 6 of the switch (on the buttocks) only after you continue to engage in activities you have been warned about.
It was never in rage- he was usually quite clinical about it.

There are rules and decorum to be followed:
The Equipment:
Switching shall be applied with a switch (no belts, horsewhips <you are not a horse>, brooms <taboo> or any non switch objects.
The switch shall conform with prescribed standards.
The switch shall be purchased from Sandgrouse market.
It shall be kept in a publicly known and accesible location.
You may not hide, destroy or attempt to destroy switch.(sabotage)
In event that switch is missing for "unknown " reasons, it is permissible to deploy a back up unit of similar quality.
The location of the back up is not public information.

Reprieves:
In event that no switch of reasonable quality is located within a reasonable time frame, the event is declared a no show.(reprieve)
If the switch breaks or is destroyed during application.
The arrival of a non resident before or during guarantees automatic cancellation.
A reprieve may be called in event of a power cut (blackout).

The Act:
No running. (away or about as he is not young nor an athlete).
No thrashing about before and during applications.
Application on the buttocks (non negotiable).
You may not beg for mercy or engage in any post trial appeals.
Pre and post warm up strokes are permissible at parent's discretion. (extras)
No Sundays.


Crying:
No crying before application. (or hand wringing & teeth gnashing.)
No crying for excessive time after. (get over it quick and move on).
You may not include any words in the crying. (Ori mi o, Yepa, etc)
Names of deities, a deity or his son or offspring may not be invoked.
No yelling loudly, by you or him.
No laughing or giggling by you, them or any spectator.
No howling and any other non-crying vocalizations.


Post Mortem:
Then with muffled sobbing you took (walked) the switch back to it's place in the closet.
You retired to your room to sob your sorrows away.
After a polite interval, you are called for a debriefing ,exit interview and sober reflection.

Then all was well until.....


I probably got most of the switching in the household.
I don't think I was a bad kid, -just a little too curious and independent, sometimes forgetful.

Regarding whooping I'm in total agrement with Cxsm.

Last edited by n/5n on 02-03-2004 at 11:15 PM

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Old Post 02-03-2004 12:39 AM
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cxsm
Joyous member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 470

Laughter is a good medicine and I thank you folks for the good dosage I just got. Any more?

People from all races and ethnicities and not just blacks believe in spanking as expressed by this caucasian who's also a Christian. Here's a link to his book titled "Spanking: A Loving Discipline" by Roy Lessin. http://www.christcorner.com/book1-4.html
and some reactions.


"Kudos to author Roy Lessin ('Spanking: A Loving Discipline' 07-31-02 EUR) for writing what I feel is a very timely book. I haven't read it but I can only imagine the flak that he is going to
get for supporting the age-old adage, 'Spare the rod, spoil the child.'
For too long, I have felt that black parents have allowed psychologists and educated authorities into their homes to tell them how to discipline their children. I'm sorry but time-outs don't work and when your child is cuttin' up in public, (UNHEARD OF in my parents' household), there's nothing like a good old fashioned a**whipping to bring a child back to reality.
I'm not saying beat the skin off a child, but parents need to realize that when you 'cut a child' right where they cut up, it's just as embarrassing to them as it is to you. But at least they will think again the next time they want to show out. And for the record, I was a bad a** child and my mother and father 'got in mine' and my siblings and NEVER had to come to a jailhouse or a court room for any of us. You CAN raise FIVE children in the projects.
I welcome rebuttals from all the 'time out' enthusiasts.
*John D. Goodman II, Brooklyn, NY.


"Regarding Mr. Goodman's (08-01-02 EUR) comments about spanking - I'm almost with you 100%. I believe that the parent must find the punishment that works best for the individual child. Prior to having my son, I didn't believe in 'time-out.' I spank my son, but time-out works better for him. I have spanked his tail and he forgot that '@$$ whuppin'' only to show out later. But I have found that when he's standing in that corner, facing the wall with nothing to look at an no one to talk to, he gets his act together. Every child responds to punishments differently.
Wink, Washington, DC:

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Old Post 02-03-2004 03:37 AM
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cxsm
Joyous member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 470

Loving Discipline

In researching on the internet I just came across this and as I'm reading and posting it, I realize that suprisingly it reinforces some of my own opinions. I deserve a non-spanking vacation for this. Who's treating?

Loving Discipline

Seven Essentials in Rearing Children for Christ
Lesson 4: Loving Discipline

Love must be dependable. Give your child a sense of love even when you are administering discipline. There are four purposes of discipline.
Discipline teaches the child to hate sin. Your child must see by your angry reaction to sin that sin is hateful. Jesus was full of anger when He cleansed the Temple. Yet He did not fly into an uncontrollable rage. Neither should you, when you mete out discipline. If you lose self-control, you merely show the child how to throw a tantrum. Yet, on the other hand, you should not act like an emotionless robot. Our emotions are an instrument to use for good purposes.

Discipline teaches the child that sin has negative consequences. If you do not judge and punish your child's sin, how will he learn that God judges and punishes sin? Do not punish every one of his failings. Be merciful. Pick on the failings that, at his age, he must learn to overcome. And any punishment you inflict must be humane. Do not hit a child on the head, or twist his arm, or pull his ears, or beat his frail limbs, or rap his knuckles, or pinch him, or lock him in a closet, or shake him (shaking an infant can cause brain damage), or wash out his mouth with soap.

The best punishment takes advantage of his well-padded rump, which God has furnished so that he can be punished safely. Of course, spanking is NOT the only method of punishment. The many alternatives may be sufficient to manage a docile child. But there are times when only a spanking will do.

Some parents underuse spanking because they fail to recognize that it is actually more humane than the methods they favor. Unlike a deprivation, or a chore lasting a long period of time, a spanking quickly ends the unpleasantness and restores a loving atmosphere.

Some parents of a gentle disposition give spankings that are much too weak. A child spared from painful strokes develops little fear of spanking, with the result that each spanking he receives is somewhat less effective than the last. The spanking done by a mother's hand is likely to be worthless if the child is older than four or five. But as soon as I suggest that some parents spank too mildly, I remember with a shudder that some parents spank too severely. A spanking should never be energized by an angry desire for revenge or retribution. Corporal punishment should never leave marks lasting more than a few minutes. A Christian should be the last person to harm a child.

Susannah Wesley believed that a parent should spank until the child whimpers, showing submission. She said that the loud cry at first is merely anger. But it is wise to be guided by common sense rather than by any rule. Susannah's rule may be helpful in managing a little child, but if an older child is spanked until he whimpers, he will soon learn how to manipulate you. To avoid punishment, he may whimper as soon as you get the paddle. But you do not want the child to be a whining coward. Let him learn to take his punishment "like a man." Or, to goad you by his obstinacy, he may never whimper. But you do not want to spank him excessively and so give him an excuse for feeling ill-used. Therefore, it is better to measure out punishment according to the offense.

Discipline brings the child to repentance. A parent who lets a child use defiance to bully his way out of punishment is teaching him to be a bully. A parent who lets a child use denial to talk his way out of punishment is teaching him how to lie and manipulate. A parent who lets a child use apologies to wheedle his way out of punishment is teaching him cowardliness. Such apologies are not repentance.

To bring a child to true repentance, you must take the following steps.

Before you punish him, you must make him tell you what he did. You can expect God's help as you consider whether the child is telling the truth. If he lies, you should increase the punishment. It is best to know the facts yourself before you deal with the child, but in case your view of the situation is not exactly correct, you must give the child a chance to explain himself. You may find that he is innocent and does not deserve punishment.
You must state exactly what he did wrong and what the punishment will be.
You must administer the punishment.
You must extract from the child an admission that he deserved the punishment.
You must extract from him a resolution not to commit the same misdeed again.
If the matter is serious, you should lead the child through a prayer seeking God's forgiveness.

Discipline restores a loving bond between parent and child. After the punishment has been administered, you must put your arms around the child and assure him of your love. Your warm comfort at this moment will not only heal much of his hurt and humiliation, but will also seal in his heart a greater love for you.
Do not be hypercritical. A father who is continually cutting down his children will certainly lose their respect and obedience. Hypercriticism is a form of provoking children to wrath.

If you are a father, test yourself with the following questions:

Do I live practically my whole life at some level of rage?
Do my children ever see me without a snarl?
When I come home from a frustrating day at work, do I pour pent-up anger upon every convenient target, including my children?
Do I use intemperate language?

If you badger your children with the idea that they are good for nothing, they will certainly live up to your opinion. They will turn out to be good for nothing.

A good rule of thumb is that every negative should be balanced by a positive. You sometimes must be negative. That is, you must get tough with a child and rebuke him sharply. But after you knock him down with negatives, you must pick him up with positives.

http://www.themoorings.org/life/fam...ren/train4.html

I thought [washing out of one's mouth with soap] was just an expression in the U.S. I never knew people actually did/do so. Hmmm!

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Old Post 02-03-2004 04:12 AM
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Sola
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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 756

@n/5n - friend, you obviously had a weird childhood!

Jokes aside, worse was having momsy follow you to school to report you to the teacher who now decides to discipline you further. And the way some teachers wielded the cane...

What's corporal about this sef? Should have been called GENERAL!

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Old Post 02-03-2004 08:29 AM
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spinnelli
Ogboologbo Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: US
Posts: 73

Talking

chei, we don sufffer shey?. I remember once I was late to church. My mom was in the choir so they do this procession thing from outside the church. As they were slowly marching inside now, she saw me coming from a distance, my mother got out of the procession, in front of the reverend, she came and whooped my ass in front of the whole congregation. Everyone thought this woman had gone mad. And you guys know this is not just some 6 strokes spanking. Na her high heels she remove comot come dey beat me like I be goat. I was 14 years old. I will count that as one of the most embarrassing moments of my life.

Another time, she told me to cook, I was cooking and watching tv at the same time, the food got burnt. I was trying to explain when I felt something hit me. I swear I went blind for a few minutes. When I came to, I found out it was proper backhand she gave me, my head spunned like the exorcist and hit the wall. It took a couple of weeks for the knot in my head to go down. It looked like I grew a horn on the side of my head.

My father was no exception, this man beat me with the stump of a machete and broke my wrist once during environmental sanitation, I didn't come outside to work. He took me to the hospital after that. In retrospect, all these things are funny now, shit, they were funny then. Stories plenty...can anyone remember the anticipation of the beating?. Those times that you wait to get spanked?. My parents worked from 8-4. If you were due for a spanking that afternoon, at about 2pm, you start to work out. Stretch, jog around the house, trying to gear yourself up for when they come home.


I think that form of discipline DID have an effect on us. It taught us how to cover our tracks better. It taught us how to come up with fool-proof lies, how to be more sneaky. After a while, we got immune to the punishment, at least I did. I didn't care if I got in trouble, anymore. My MO was, "what, I will get spanked, I will cry for a few minutes, if at all, and it will all be over in no time, that should in no way prevent me from sneaking out of the house". And off I went. When I was about 15, I stopped flinching. No matter how hard I was spanked, I wouldn't cry or flinch. It was partly out of defiance and partly out of the fact that my body had built a resistance, over time, to spanking.
My mother wised up to that and adopted the punishment of "talking". The kind of speeches that will make you think about your life, boy did I hate those. There were times that I just ask to be spanked instead. She never raised her voice, she will calmly explain your whole life to you starting from the day you were conceived, that quickly made me sorry for whatever it was that I did.

I guess like everyone said, each household is different. Some parents spank more out of anger than anything else. They want to put the fear of God in you (as my dear mother use to say), and let you know, without a doubt who is boss. . "bo y'emi ni mo bi e ni o, bi iwo lo bi mi ni o, e nu e la jo wa yen (We shall see who is the mother and who is the child between you and I) , lol. Kai, that woman had it in for me.

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Old Post 02-03-2004 09:57 AM
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Sola
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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 756

Yeah Spinnelli, the anticipation of the punishment is actually just as bad as the real thing. Many of us have already turned to jelly long before the folks come home as soon as you realise you're in for it. Or, you smashed the TV? You kicked a ball through the window, breaking the louvres? Come on, you know what's to come - so you suddenly go on a house work spree, doing everything doable just to get the folks in a mood likely to soften the impact of the bad news on them. Wow! I have seen things!

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Old Post 02-04-2004 08:30 AM
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Berta
Ogboologbo Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 54

HEY SPINNELLI.....

My two sisters and i got spanked alot by our mom. My dad never touched he would growled you into confusion though. As we grew up we realised he always stopped just about the time the first tears appear. My dad was a softie and didn't like to see his "girls" cry. So that inveriably became our weapon against him..tears.
My mom on the other hand was somewhat the family "dragon", tears didnt mean anything to her. she would trash you till kingdom come. This was for the first three (my sisters and i).
Suddenly my mom goes off to the UK to study, she comes back and decides that trashing isn't always the best way to communicate with an erring child. That is not say that she didn't resort to it in the end, but you must have really pushed it to get it. Hence my younger siblings didn't get trashed as much as we did.
I think most kids here in the States are irate brats, they lack boundaries and hence a sense of self awareness. I think its because they dont get spanked and end pushing thier parents around alot.
I know a lady who has two boys who are nothing less than monsters, they are so ill behaved and when i point it out to her she goes "you know they are american chilidren. they are different from us" i dont like to have her and her kids over at my house.
Kids need to be taught boundaries and the only way to do that is by spanking them.
B.

Last edited by Berta on 02-04-2004 at 10:41 AM

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Old Post 02-04-2004 08:48 AM
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maverixz
Technogeek

Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Midwest
Posts: 59

I hate when people use that phrase "they are American children" to excuse their children's lack of discipline. When any friend tells me that is their reason for not disciplining a child, I feel like punching them in the face. Anyway, in my house, those kids had better behave, or else they'll get an ass whipping and if their parents don't like it, I'll tell them to keep their children away from my house.

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