What Is YMMSS All About?, Edification

I've recieved an invitation to join YMMSS. What is this program about and what is the product? Is it legal? Is it a MLM? How can I use YMMSS to promote my primary business? Inquiring minds need to know!

Peace and Love,

Al Ferguson
http://www.PlayThisVideo.Com

I expect you will hear from Esto on this one.

He loves it.

Al,

All of your questions are answered at http://www.ymmss.com/menu.htm . You can also have a look around forum at http://www.ymmss.org/bb .

I was a skeptic for a long time. When I first saw the site, I thought "chain letter" and was certain the bottom had to fall out. But after studying it in more depth, analyzing how it worked, I realized that it was quite brilliant. I also asked the owner to call me which he did, international long distance. He put my mind at ease about the longevity of the program.

Briefly, to answer your questions. What is the product - advertising (currently safelist, but soon to be web-based). Is it legal - yes, Kim the owner has his legal bases covered. Is it MLM - no. How can you use it to promote your business -- you would post ads to the safelist for your primary business. The members are receptive and polite to one another, no spam complaints.

I'll let Esto go into details here because he's good at that. I would just encourage you to visit the sites and also read the discussion list on SmartGroups (link on the menu.htm link above). All of those questions you ask have been asked and answered.

Susan

Thank you Susan. To my knowlegde this seems to be still under the radar. I'll wait to here from Esto to see what he has to say. Like I said before... when I went to the site and left, I was still somewhat confused about it but hey that's just me! smile....

Regards,

Al

I emailed Esto to tell him to pop over and respond here. He replied that he couldn't post for some reason, even though he is registered (Chris?).

He asked me to give people this page on his site for a complete explanation:

http://onlinebizplanner.com/menu10.htm

and he adds that he gives it his "unqualified support."

I'm sure if you need any more questions answered, you can e-mail Esto (I think he has contact info on his site) or you can post questions on the public board I mentioned at http://www.ymmss.org/bb where he is one of the Mods.

It is not just you who is confused by the site -- I visited and turned away many, many times. Thought the site looked like crap and very scammy, to be honest. If it weren't for Esto nagging me mercilessly, I would have continued to walk away from it. It kind of drove me crazy that I didn't "get it" for a long time, since I don't consider myself stupid. But when I started playing with scenarios and realizing how it worked, it made sense.

I think Kim is working diligently with legal advisors and financial advisors to be sure everything stays above board and legitimate. He also has a lot of back-up plans in place with multiple servers (should one get shut down) and is building an offline dial-up type service so that if internet access is disturbed, people still have access to their accounts.

Good luck and enjoy your research!
Susan

Hi,Al

I'm a YMMSS member since 3 months, it's a legal and honest business.
You can see attorney's document and Table of commission from the
main site. I purchase 1 EPC(email posting credit)$10 a week, and the first 2 positions have cycled(double the amount) within 80 days. They
will keep doubling every 90 days or less. In short, everyone has made
money and no one has lost, because it's a single line matrix, first in
first out, no exception. No recruit.No sale. My site has some more dtails about how it works.

Nicky

Serious income you can live on!
http://smartway.1dot.net

Not sure if there was a problem with esto's original account. I did notice that he apparently reregistered with username steverose. There was a validation email that he either didn't receive or missed. I've activated that account so he should be able to log in. When I get home from work, I'll look into the other account if he's having problems there.


So, onto YMMSS........


Other than a private communication with Tassel(bigbucks), I haven't commented on YMMSS to anyone.

I told her that I'm going to stay far far away from YMMSS.

I'll be reading replies, but I probably won't be responding any further until I get home late this evening.

Sorry, but I think you were correct in your first reaction Susan.

In addition to the frowned upon(if not illegal) guarantee of income, for me it simply boils down to very simple math.

If I pay YMMSS $10 for an EPC, where does the money come from to do what they claim to do. Obviously, selling a service for $10 doesn't bring YMMSS a profit of over $300.

That leaves one of two things. Either commissions are being paid out of the funds from the newest recruits, or money is being used from somewhere else to float this structure.

That's the first thing I would ask. In simple terms, tell me exactly where it is that YMMSS makes enough profit from my $10 purchase to pay me back over $300.

I found no such information on their site or at the forum.

Good luck.

Chris B.

I think my account is OK now as Chris kindly sent me a confirming note which I had not received before.

On YMMSS I have written many positive pages about it at my site at http://onlinebizplanner.com/menu10.htm

It is a tire that has been kicked enough by people like me and others burnt and skeptical but so far it has merely accepted the kicks and rolled along, paying everyone who joins their commissions every cycle.

Nor has the cycle ever gotten outside the proclaimed outer bound of 90 days.

Let's put it this way. If a bank said they would pay you twice what you deposited every 90 days, would you switch?

The real problem is that it is too good to be true. People have to get over that bump and realize that it, like the deity, exists. And that there might just be a day when finances are not going to be the drag they are now.

I do not even want to say what my income would look like a year from now if all of my 500 plus positions start kicking out $320 in commissions every cycle. It will be quite an adjustment from the days when we were getting high on the prospect of $1750 a month, oops make that whatever the next thing down was, down to, well, my current Nutronix income.

I'll make anyone here a deal. Well, that might look like an ad. Tell you what, I just got a gmail account as a loyal blogger.

Drop a post to steverose@gmail.com if you want to know more about YMMSS.

Cheers, S

The Little $10 That Could

It has been asked how might one turn $10 into $320 and to make the question sharper I shall deal with how $10 can turn into $320 not once, but many times over.

We'll start with the expenditure of $10 to purchase one email posting credit (epc) -- the right to advertise to a safelist made up of similar epc purchasers.

That $10 purchase is immediately subject to a 25 percent fee that goes into the YMMSS administrative budget. The other 75 percent goes into a Commissions Payable Account. The very day you buy your $10 epc $7.50 is being paid out to whoever happens to be at the top of the single line that knows no favorites.

Payment in YMMSS begins with your purchase and entry at the bottom of the line.
In 90 days or less you come out the top and are paid exactly twice your original purchase, or $20.

Why do we speak of this $10 not just doubling, but becoming $320?

Because $320 is the highest commission YMMSS pays. And this commission is never paid until the recipient has actually earned double $320 in commissions -- or $640.

Why $320? Some of the whys are not known to me and perhaps not to anyone. But a reasonable answer is that it is a sum large enough to represent a nice commission and small enough to be a feasable possibility for that $10 we are making the protagonist of this journey.

Because $320 is the goal, no one who buys a $10 epc can collect that double commission for quite some time. There is actually a provision for those who wish to collect when the commission is $160 but that is the only exception.

We are following $10 to a $320 commission,

Well doubling anything is fine, but when this $20 goes right back to the bottom of that single line matrix, it climbs to the top again and emerges as $40, reenters at the bottom and reemerges as $80, then goes to the bottom again and reemerges as $160, then goes to the bottom again and reemerges as 320 $320 and then goes to the bottom again to finally become $640.

In the above paragraph the gross amount our $10 earns on its journey is $1260. 126 epcs. And when $320 is paid to the person who entered with $10, another $320 from the same purchase is automatically recycled. And that happens again and again.

How is YMMSS able to do what it does? There can be no question that what I have described takes place. No one has not been paid. Ever.

The answer lies in the following elements --

Time: This does not happen at once but over a period of months to years.

Participation: Not only is the amount paid out each day put back in via the doubling (or halving) already discussed, but YMMSS members continually add new money into the system to expand their positions. Added to that of course is money from new members. No business can survive without new customers and YMMSS has a realistic potential of surpassing 100,000 in membershop. Some argue that it could grow into the low millions.

Time, participation and a smart long-term business plan.

Now the usual thought at this point is that there will be a saturation point. People with hundreds of positions that all pay $320 will dominate the matrix, leaving newcomers in the lurch. But consider the undelying YMMSS business, which is advertising.

YMMSS is creating people who have been able to retire, to buy things they want, to go on trips and so forth. The larger we grow, the more valuable we become as a marketplace for members and a retail ad target.

In July, we will have our fully protected site with back offices and at that point we will stop being a safelist, I believe, and become an online advertising dynamo.

Let's go back to the 25 percent admin fee which is charged on all purchases. That becomes a hefty fund and you can be sure that it is not going to line the pockets of founder Kim Inman. It has been used to hire the best counsel and advice possible, to establish off shore offices and server locales and otherwise protect YMMSS from the vagaries of national legislation that limits ones fiscal freedoms.

The admin fund is also used to generate funds for the accounts payable to the point that the accounts payable is now probably closer to 100 percent of all the money that comes into YMMSS for epcs than to 75 percent. When the retail advertising kicks in at a higher level it will probably exceed 100 percent, possibly even double it.

On what basis does that $10 earn so much?

Time. Participation. And a smart business plan. The product is digital and while it has value its value is based on the creation of a participaroty group that will eventually be "buying YMMSS" in the sense of patronizing one another's businesses. That is already happening.

YMMSS cannot be compared to most of the opps we've been in. The money we put into it vastly exceeds what we might feel we should spend as a member of SFI, for example. We are in essence contributing to an enlarging pool of resources in a system that makes fair sharing mandatory.

Most people like myself who will do exceedingly well have no hesitation in thinking that as much as half of our commissions will go right back in to be generating capital over one or more cycles to pay others.

Jesus did not have a lot of time so his miracles got compressed. But YMMSS is really not that different from the feeding of the 5000 where resources were divided equally and distributed equally and there was -- inexplicably -- more than enough for all.

If you do not think this story is the turning point in the Gospel narratives, go back and take a look.

After the miracle of the loaves, the disciples cross the Galilean lake by night in a boat. The resting Jesus follows them, walking on water. When he draws near, the disciples no not recognize him and when he identifies himself and decides to step into the boat they, are both frightened and dumfoonded. The story is explicit that they did not understand the miracle of the loaves and that their minds were completely closed.

From then on, anything Jesus did was of the devil as far as many thought. His fate was sealed. It all went downhill from there. Except that he was right, And God vindicated this for all time via the resurrection.

YMMSS is about the possibilities of sharing and creating more that way than could be created without sharing.

We have a lively and humane community. I do not think we are going to end up a closed community or -- to use the pejorative term -- cult.

I think we will be a community more in the sense of tolerance, some humor, some iconoclasm and a big dose of concern for neighbor.

Recently the wife of an early younger member died. The outpouring of shared concern and gried from around the world was astounding.

That $10 is what I spent last December to by several hundred positions at that entry level. Any one of you is welcome to buy one from me now for $80. That is what they are worth, all of them. If you wait a month they will be $160.

Everyone is getting paid within the cycle time. More money is coming in than the 75 percent but that does not explain it to me. I think the explanation of the loaves and fishes is just as pertinent.

If it all ended tomorrow I would not have lost a dime and by the end of the year I will have made more and cleared much more than I ever did in the salad days when SFI hung the moon and Wildrire was a'burning.

If it goes on until next March I will probably be giving $10 positions away just to get people started. And then they will have made a recurrent $320 from nada, zilch, nothing. The plan is that it will go on for generations and people are sensibly providing for that.

Cheers, S

And after reading everything, the question still remains unanswered.

My rusty math skills still tell me that $10 minus $2.50 minus $7.5 leaves $0.00 to grow. But we'll get back to this.

Well, I'm not quite sure because I don't see $10 left to double if your above statements are even remotely accurate.

Ummm, yeah, there are plenty of questions, the main one still being "Where does the money come from to pay out?" So far, all I've seen is that $7.50 goes to pay out to the top member, leaving I guess a portion of $2.50 to magically become an extremely large amount over time. I guess that means it takes 4 new $10 EPC purchasers to cover every 3 who rise to the top.

Quite a young and small company at this point.

Okay, so 75% goes to give back what the person put in. At least a large chunk of the remaining 25% goes towards legal counsel and other stuff.

BTW, I'm a firm believer that a good part of this national legislation that YMMSS is attempting to "protect" itself from is also there to protect consumers from being conned.

Generate funds how??? What retail advertising? I still see NO product being sold at a profit for YMMSS. Pay $10 in, get $10 back.

What smart business plan. For arguments sake, we'll say that the safelist remains effective. Patronizing one another's businesses is fine, but I don't see how it makes any profit for YMMSS to allow them to give an eventual 12,600% return on a $10 investment.

I have to agree there.

There is no room for "inexplicably" in this. I do agree that a miracle is the only thing that would make sense of this.

I know you are an excellent theologian esto, but this has absolutely no bearing on this discussion unless you think Kim is the Second Coming of Christ.

We're not talking about the Son of God performing a miracle by feeding 5000 with a few loaves of bread. We are discussing an individual(mortal as far as I know) apparently claiming that he will pay every single person $1260 in return for a one time $10 investment.

It's rarely the early in that get hurt. I made a decent profit in one of our shared ventures as well before it folded. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for those who I brought in through my ignorance.

The bottom line here is that it's unlikely either of us will change our stance on this until time, or law, has proven what the real truth is.

I've seen zilch to show me where the money comes from to pay out long term. If profit is not being made on the sale of EPC's($10 minus $10 still equals $0), then the money is coming from somewhere else. Seems like a very dangerous game to me.

Because of your consistent subtle plugs and Al bringing this "opportunity" to the forefront, I felt the need to make sure our members know my stance on this.

There is no "something for nothing" when it comes to business. I'd like to think that at least a few of our senior members would have learned this from past experience.

Chris B.

Definitely, because the FDIC at least insures my initial investment. However, no bank is foolish enough to offer this. Neither do any investment brokers.

Why the multiple religious references Esto? Again, I'm assuming that a human being is operating this.

Truthfully Esto, just a few of the red flags so far are:

• Guaranteed Income
• No real product to be retailed to those outside the income opportunity
• No upfront explanation of where commissions come from
• Deliberately based outside the US to "protect" itself

Look before you leap people. And look for some proof of long term viability.

Chris B.

"Amen," Chris!!

I received the pack of information from out dear departed marketing friend a

while back.

Not seeing anything to "sell" was a definate red flag. All they wanted was $$.

I let the time limit lapse to join. Glad I didn't join.

As a graduate of Consumer Affairs, I note that you have provided a great service

to your "customers" on your Board. Excellent work.

All the best.

Terry Rose

Esto, Chris raised some excellent issues as it relates to the company. I respectively ask that you comment on them.

Truthfully Esto, just a few of the red flags so far are:

1. Guaranteed Income
2. No real product to be retailed to those outside the income opportunity
3. No upfront explanation of where commissions come from
4. Deliberately based outside the US to "protect" itself

Regards,

Al Ferguson
http://www.PlayThisVideo.Com

Esto,

I really have a problem with Chris's last question. Why have the company moved or is plannning to move their servers offshore? If the opportunity is viable how come they can't do business here in the US. Don't you think that seems strange?

Regards,

Al Ferguson

I doubt that my responses to any of the questions raised will be any more satisfactory than my substantial efforts (and the link to my site) have evidently been.

From here on, I will go back to simply to advertising YMMSS in the appropriate area of the forum.

If anyone wants to risk $10 for a year and has not progressed as I have said, I will happily refund it. To progress as I have said would be to go from $10 to $80 in three 90 day cycles.

Best, S

Thank you, Esto, for your eloquent explanation of "The Little $10 That Could."

Chris, I would just like to enlarge on this comment you made:

The beauty of the YMMSS business model is that the math equation quoted above DOES NOT GIVE THE COMPLETE PICTURE. Actually, the YMMSS equation/formula continues to cycle over and over again - and it's non-ending!

As an example, let's assume the following scenario:

1. "A" purchases a new $10 EPC (his/her name is entered at the bottom of the commission ladder).

2. "B" is at the top of the commission ladder and is the next person to be paid a double commission of his/her original $10 EPC purchase.

3. "C" is in the second position at the top of the commission ladder waiting to be paid a double commission on his/her original $80 EPC purchase.

The equation after "A's" $10 EPC purchase would then read:

$10 minus $2.50 (25% admin fee) minus $7.50 (75% for the payout "pot" which goes toward paying the double commission to "B") PLUS $20 ("B's" doubled EPC purchase - now worth $20 - is entered at the bottom of the commission ladder) minus $5 ("25% of "B's" new $20 EPC for admin fee) minus $15 (75% for the payout "pot" which goes toward paying the doubled commission to "C") PLUS $160 ("C"s doubled EPC purchase - now worth $160 - is entered at the bottom of the commission ladder) minus $40 ("25% of "C's" new $160 EPC for admin fee) minus $120 (75% for the payout "pot" which goes toward paying the doubled commission to the next person at the top of the commission ladder) PLUS , etc, etc, etc . . . (This equation/formula is repeated over and over and over and . . . )

Therefore, the equation for the above example would read like this:

$10 - $2.50 - $7.50 + $20 - $5 - $15 + $160 - $40 - $120 + the next doubled EPC commission amount - 25% for admin fee - 75% for the payout "pot" + . . . and on and on and on . . .

There is never zero ($0) in the payout "pot" because, as each new EPC purchase is made, the "pot" fills until there is enough to pay the doubled commission to the person at the top of the YMMSS ladder, which is then re-entered at the bottom of the ladder and the process begins again . . . ad infinitum!

I joined YMMSS in September 2003 and I've already been paid $320 in commissions many times. Am I pleased with YMMSS? Absolutely!

Iris Nast

You're absolutely correct about that. I certainly don't expect you to know everything, but it sure would be nice if anyone could actually show me where the money comes from. I'll expound further in my reply to intrepid.

I really have a hard time believing you really think it's as simple as one person losing just $10. For me, it has to do with the inevitable fact that potentially thousands will lose $10 and many more will lose hundreds or thousands by buying into multiple EPC's and this thing crumbles.

Most of these types of schemes pay out for a while. It's the last ones in left holding the bag when it falls.

Chris B.

Definitely not a complete picture, but a heck of lot more realistic one.

Well, with you so far, but now is where the logic and reality come to an abrupt end.

Where does the PLUS $20 come from?????????? There is no $20 because no product or service was sold to put $20 back to the bottom. The $20 comes from the last couple members who paid their $10. This money is completely imaginary as far as being generated by the EPC program. Where is it that the revenue is being generated to pay back twice what was put in???? And that's just on the first cycle. The more cycles, the more ridiculous this money game gets.

Simple question not yet answered. Where is the extra revenue coming from?

Not quite. There was nothing sold to generate the +$20 +$160, etc., etc. These are imaginary funds being "recycled".

Simple math. It takes 2 new $10 EPC's to fund every one that gets to the top. We still haven't been shown where the extra revenue is generated. All I see so far is that the people at the bottom are funding payouts at the top, creating confidence in this Revolutionary "Flat Pyramid Scheme".

Good for you Iris. The early ones in the pyramid often make money for a while. It only takes about 43 new members or people like esto buying 43 more $10 EPC's to fund your cycling. But in the end, it's very likely that the last $320 you get might be the $320 that cost some poor sap their house.

Believe it or not, I really hope you guys will be able to say this a couple years from now. At this moment, however, "enlightenment" still escapes me.

Chris B.

Just my .02 cents worth, but didn't we all learn a long time
ago, by various discussions on this board, to beware of
ANY PROGRAM if there was NO TANGEBLE PRODUCT
involved??

Lou

Hey Lou,

I wasn't even going to touch on that simply because it's a matter of opinion whether or not paid safelist advertising is viable. There are still plenty of them out there and people are still making money selling it. They just aren't being paid over a 1000% commission

My main issue with this is that you simply can't sell a one time service for x amount of dollars and make more than the selling price in commissions.

The money absolutely has to be coming from new members and old members buying more, each cycle requiring more and more new members to fund the higher cycling "commissions". The only other alternative is that it's being supplemented by other endeavors as well, which is what someone at their forums stated. If that's true, it's another terrible business idea. I can just imagine the owner of my company using his real estate income to fund commissions for his wireless reps sales in order to create the best wireless commission structure in the industry.

I'm pretty much done with this particular discussion. I know there are a few others on this board already involved. And they are most likely in early enough not to lose their money when this thing folds down the road. Very likely they will even earn a profit. Unfortunately, that profit will eventually come from people who do lose.

Chris B.