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Author Topic:   Hints - djbob
djbob
UnRegistered
posted 12-13-2001 02:56 PM          
Okey doke, where to begin?

Well, let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start, as the song goes.

Before looking at what the compiler does, we'll take a look inside a .map file.

code:

{
"classname" "worldspawn"
// brush 0
{
( 8 256 192 ) ( -320 256 192 ) ( -320 0 192 ) evil6_bmtls/e6bmetal 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 0 208 ) ( -320 256 208 ) ( 8 256 208 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 0 320 ) ( 8 0 320 ) ( 8 0 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 0 0 320 ) ( 0 256 320 ) ( 0 256 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 8 256 320 ) ( -320 256 320 ) ( -320 256 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 256 320 ) ( -320 0 320 ) ( -320 0 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 1
{
( 8 256 48 ) ( -320 256 48 ) ( -320 0 48 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 0 64 ) ( -320 256 64 ) ( 8 256 64 ) evil6_floors/e6c_floor_b 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 0 176 ) ( 8 0 176 ) ( 8 0 48 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 0 0 176 ) ( 0 256 176 ) ( 0 256 48 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 8 256 176 ) ( -320 256 176 ) ( -320 256 48 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 256 176 ) ( -320 0 176 ) ( -320 0 48 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 2
{
( -320 0 64 ) ( -320 192 64 ) ( -336 192 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -336 192 192 ) ( -320 192 192 ) ( -320 0 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -336 192 192 ) ( -336 0 192 ) ( -336 0 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 64 192 ) ( -304 64 192 ) ( -304 64 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 0 256 ) ( -320 192 256 ) ( -320 192 64 ) evil6_walls/e6gridergrtwll 128 128 0 -0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -320 192 192 ) ( -336 192 192 ) ( -336 192 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 3
{
( 16 0 64 ) ( 16 192 64 ) ( 0 192 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 0 192 192 ) ( 16 192 192 ) ( 16 0 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 0 192 256 ) ( 0 0 256 ) ( 0 0 64 ) evil6_walls/e6gridergrtwll 128 128 0 -0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 16 64 192 ) ( 32 64 192 ) ( 32 64 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 16 0 192 ) ( 16 192 192 ) ( 16 192 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( 16 192 192 ) ( 0 192 192 ) ( 0 192 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 4
{
( -64 272 64 ) ( -256 272 64 ) ( -256 256 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 256 192 ) ( -256 272 192 ) ( -64 272 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 256 192 ) ( -64 256 192 ) ( -64 256 0 ) evil6_walls/e6gridergrtwll -171 128 0 -0.375000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -64 256 256 ) ( -64 272 256 ) ( -64 272 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -64 272 192 ) ( -256 272 192 ) ( -256 272 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 272 256 ) ( -256 256 256 ) ( -256 256 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 5
{
( -64 0 64 ) ( -256 0 64 ) ( -256 -16 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 -16 192 ) ( -256 0 192 ) ( -64 0 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 -16 192 ) ( -64 -16 192 ) ( -64 -16 0 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -64 -16 256 ) ( -64 0 256 ) ( -64 0 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -64 0 192 ) ( -256 0 192 ) ( -256 0 0 ) evil6_walls/e6gridergrtwll -171 128 0 -0.375000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
( -256 0 256 ) ( -256 -16 256 ) ( -256 -16 64 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0
}
// brush 6
{
( 0 256 192 ) ( -320 256 192 ) ( -320 240 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
( -320 240 208 ) ( -320 256 208 ) ( 0 256 208 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
( -320 0 216 ) ( 0 0 216 ) ( 0 0 200 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
( 0 240 208 ) ( 0 256 208 ) ( 0 256 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
( 0 256 208 ) ( -320 256 208 ) ( -320 256 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
( -320 256 208 ) ( -320 240 208 ) ( -320 240 192 ) common/caulk 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 0 0 0
}


Now, you're looking at that, and going WTF?, yeah, you can make out the texture names, and probably the rotation, scale etc., but what's that stuff at the beginning, I hear you cry. Lets dissect a face (plane) definition.

( 8 256 192 ) ( -320 256 192 ) ( -320 0 192 ) evil6_bmtls/e6bmetal 0 0 0 0.500000 0.500000 134217728 0 0

If you dont know much about 3d geometry, just take it as given that three points are needed to define a plane (infinite flat surface), or a vector (pointy thing ) and an offset distance. This vector is known as a normal, and points at 90 degrees from the surface of the plane.

The first three sections of the face definition are the three points required to define our plane. I wont go into how you calculate the normal etc, because it's not important for the purposes of this "tutorial".

Each brush is just made up of lots of big flat surfaces. The faces are made by cutting all of the other planes against each plane.

Now, what does the compiler do?

It starts off with a large volume, which is a node, in this case the head node for the BSP tree.

code:

......O......
...../.\.....
....O...O....
.../.\./.\...


(ph34r my ascii art skills)

This is the structure of the BSP tree, the first circle being the head node, which has two children, which in turn can also have two children, ad infinitum.

To create the child nodes (volumes), the compiler selects a plane, from all the structural planes of faces contained within that node, and splits the volume into two pieces. The criteria for choosing the splitting plane is this:

No. of faces which share the plane - No. of faces the plane intersects with + 1 if an axial plane

The plane with the highest number from this will be chosen, on a first come first serve basis, if more than one plane has the same value.

The process repeats through each child node, until they all no longer contain any faces, at which point, they are known as leaf nodes. The planes that are boundaries between two nodes are referred to as portals, and are important for the vis process.

This is as far as we'll look into the BSP process.

Next we'll look at vis. Vis builds up a list of leafs that each leaf can see. Think of it like a table, like this:

code:

.0.1.2
0\.X.O
......
1X.\.X
......
2O.X.\


Where an X means they can see each other, a 0 means they can't. Obviously if 1 can see 2, 2 can see 1.

To build up this information, the compiler uses the portals from earlier. Taking each portal at a time, the compiler checks for a direct line of sight between two portals. If the first portal can see the other portal without passing through any structural content, (exiting any leafs basically), then this happens:

Take both the leafs belonging to the first portal, and mark them as visible to both the leafs belonging to the second portal. As the compiler continues to do this, it builds up the vis table as illustrated above. If an entry is never marked as visible, then it stays at its default state of hidden.

Now, when the engine renders the world, it finds which leaf your eyes are in, then can use this table to see what to draw, simple!

Now, what's the point of hints!

Well, sometimes, the splits made by your structural brushes are not very efficient, and the engine ends up rendering more than is needed. It's up to you, the mapper, to poke the compiler in the right direction. I'll go through 1 example, probably the most common example, but it's the process of doing it that is important, not what is being worked upon. I may add some more examples later if I feel it is necessary.

The map


The picture above shows a typical 90 degree corner - any fancy detail. The blue line shows the portal created in that hallway. The leaf that would exist (if I had bothered to build a room) where the player (the red blob) is standing can "see" the portal, and therefore, everything in the leafs either side of it will be drawn. For the one close to the player, that's fine, as it is clearly visible, but the one further away could have much of its volume, and therefore surfaces, hidden by other surfaces. So.....

We introduce an angled split, by placing a hint brush with that angled plane as one of its faces. Now, from in the leaf where the player stands, you are unable to see the far blue line (NOTE: the diagonal blue line is 2 portals, each ending at the inner edge of the corner), and so the leaf coloured red will not be drawn. The hint split doesn't have to be where it is; the white line shows an alternate position. As long as the portal is not visible from anywhere in the leaf, the far away leaf's surfaces will not be rendered.

The same principle can be applied to many other situations. PrtView can be an excellent help in determining where/when you should hint.

A couple of extra notes:

Unlike Quake 2, surfaces can belong to multiple leafs. Take a look at the second picture again. The wall furthest away from the player would have been split into 3 sections in Quake 2, so that each bit would only belong to one leaf. This isn't done in Quake 3, which may lead to some more overdraw, but keeps the BSP size down a little.

I missed out one of the first things the BSP process does, which is create some default splits, at 1024 unit intervals. If you go to the view menu in radiant, and enable view blocks, you can see these splits in-editor. I think these help the compiler be slightly more organized, making the BSP balanced, so you don't end up with lopsided branches, but I can't be sure. As of yet, no confirmation or otherwise.

And now for example 2:

The first shot here is just a general view of the room in which i was having some problems. When you are standing in the upper area at the back, the engine should not really be drawing the tunnels, or rooms beyond the tunnels now should it?

Of course not. So i set about fixing this problem, it's fairly simple really.

Second shot just shows the room again, minus the detail.

This shot is now taken from on the upper area, i added a simple block of hint, the bottom of which is flush with the upper area floor. The block aligns neatly with the rest of the room. I also added another block below this one, to make sure the tunnel exits had portals flat across their openings. Now, when standing i the upper area, it is impossible to see the portals in the tunnel exits, and so, nothing inside them, or behind them, is drawn.

Thanks to ydnar and K for looking over it and suggesting a couple of alterations.
Thanks to pjw for his massive grammar/spelling check


3tehakanyuksel
Grunt

Posts: 63
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 12-13-2001 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3tehakanyuksel    Click Here to Email 3tehakanyuksel 
The hint brushes coudnt be explained as simple and clear as you did bob.

------------------
3TE
Hakan Y�ksel


QPsiren
Guildhall Professor

Posts: 2382
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-14-2001 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for QPsiren Visit QPsiren's Homepage!   Click Here to Email QPsiren UIN: 142056528UIN: 142056528 
quote:
Unlike Quake 2, surfaces can belong to multiple leafs. Take a look at the second picture again. The wall furthest away from the player would have been split into 3 sections in Quake 2, so that each bit would only belong to one leaf. This isn't done in Quake 3, which may lead to some more overdraw, but keeps the BSP size down a little.

Question - if I was being really finnicky about what the engine is drawing (and not worried about BSP size), I would then split brushes along hint edges. So in your red/blue/green/yellow picture, I could split the floor, wall and ceiling brushes the along the blue lines. Is that right?

[This message has been edited by QPsiren : 12-14-2001.]

The_Phuzz
Insane Quaker

Posts: 399
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-14-2001 07:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The_Phuzz    Click Here to Email The_Phuzz UIN: 118274562UIN: 118274562 
i still dont get it! any one fancy comin round to my house and showing me? i might learn to read! it will be come clearwhen i least expect it!
/me thinks i need a new brain!
(EDIT:do you think you could send me that bit u showed, obviously that aint poart of ur real map, its just to explain, would it be posible to send me that so i can look through it and read the explantion at the same time kinda, i might undferstand it then!)
------------------
(EDIT: spelling )

[This message has been edited by The_Phuzz : 12-14-2001.]

djbob
UnRegistered
posted 12-14-2001 10:39 AM          
quote:
Originally posted by QPsiren:
Question - if I was being really finnicky about what the engine is drawing (and not worried about BSP size), I would then split brushes along hint edges. So in your red/blue/green/yellow picture, I could split the floor, wall and ceiling brushes the along the blue lines. Is that right?

[This message has been edited by QPsiren : 12-14-2001.]

There is little/no need to do this. Obviously, this change was done to improve matters, not worsen them. That little bit of overdraw will do no harm really, and you cut down on drawsurf when the entire wall is visible, and cut down file size a little, so id leave it as it is if I were you.

quote:
Originally posted by The_Phuzz:
i still dont get it! any one fancy comin round to my house and showing me? i might learn to read! it will be come clearwhen i least expect it!
/me thinks i need a new brain!
(EDIT:do you think you could send me that bit u showed, obviously that aint poart of ur real map, its just to explain, would it be posible to send me that so i can look through it and read the explantion at the same time kinda, i might undferstand it then!)

The map file for the first example, is provided up above just right-click save-as on "the map" above the first picture. There's no much to look at tho I assume you were refering to the first set, cuz the second set IS from a real map.


Trenox
Gibblet

Posts: 15
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-15-2001 06:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Trenox    Click Here to Email Trenox UIN: 54012855UIN: 54012855 
Wauw great tutorial!
All that took it was the last 3 pictures and the fact that nodes are volumes in q3 (something that all other tutorials have failed misserably in explaining by some reason, and rendering the whole topic extremely abstract)

I have a little offtopic question concerning the way you had build that final room. Is it normal to make a completely caulked structual "basemodel" and then cover it all up with detail brushed? (you do caulk the backsides of those detailbrushes right?) It is an approach i haven't seen before, but it sure looks efficient!

thanx!

Zeromus-X
Insane Quaker

Posts: 458
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 12-15-2001 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zeromus-X Visit Zeromus-X's Homepage!   Click Here to Email Zeromus-X 
Half bump, and half curiosity about that last post. I didn't even notice that looking at the tutorial (by the way djbob, you da man after that, I think I've got my hinting much closer to "good" now)...


*HeFFalump
UnRegistered
posted 12-15-2001 07:38 PM          
1 question concerning usage:

Is hint an "all-or-nothing" sort of fixer-upper, in that if you use it at all you hafta use it for the whole map? ... or can u just use it to fix up the Vis and whatnot in a specific area?

(i know thats the stupidest question you've ever hard in your entire life, and its uselessness makes you so angry you want to go into a pet store and rape a small animal ..... but plz answer it )

------------------
Make something idiotproof, and someone will make a better idiot.
--anon.

[This message has been edited by *HeFFalump : 12-15-2001.]

QkennyQ
The Illuminated

Posts: 2642
Registered: May 2000

posted 12-15-2001 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for QkennyQ Visit QkennyQ's Homepage!   Click Here to Email QkennyQ UIN: 14362637UIN: 14362637 
LOL, I'll pass on that one.

good question. I been thinking on how to give these topics some sort of relative weight. So far I haven't got much.
Hints are an optimization technique. to minimize what the engine draws from a given vantage point. It is not necessary, unless you have problems. Such as a drop in performance in a specfic area of your map. Hinting an entire map to optimize performance should not be necessary, but might be good practice to reinforce how to resolve these issues when thay occur. Or atleast this is my limited understanding.

if a further read sounds good try this http://fps.brainerd.net/hintbrushes.htm

QKQ

------------------
------------------
New to Level Editing?

all my junk is in a nice neat pile...
here


djbob
UnRegistered
posted 12-15-2001 10:39 PM          
quote:
Originally posted by Trenox:
Wauw great tutorial!
All that took it was the last 3 pictures and the fact that nodes are volumes in q3 (something that all other tutorials have failed misserably in explaining by some reason, and rendering the whole topic extremely abstract)

I have a little offtopic question concerning the way you had build that final room. Is it normal to make a completely caulked structual "basemodel" and then cover it all up with detail brushed? (you do caulk the backsides of those detailbrushes right?) It is an approach i haven't seen before, but it sure looks efficient!

thanx!


Normal is subjective No, most people dont do it this way, i know a bunch that do, but it's not that common. I actually have been building it up the opposite way around, fleshing out with structural, then changing to detila, and building hte hull around it, it may take a little more time to build it this way but it is certainly worth it. You get total control over how your BSP ends up.

Yes, all detail brushes have unseen faces caulked (i know ive missed a few around the place, but ydnar's new q3map picked up on them).

quote:
Originally posted by *HeFFalump:
1 question concerning usage:

Is hint an "all-or-nothing" sort of fixer-upper, in that if you use it at all you hafta use it for the whole map? ... or can u just use it to fix up the Vis and whatnot in a specific area?

(i know thats the stupidest question you've ever hard in your entire life, and its uselessness makes you so angry you want to go into a pet store and rape a small animal ..... but plz answer it )


Use it wherever you can i say. Why? Because, if you can remove parts that arent being seen, you can add more things to what CAN be seen, without any extra cost But no, it's no neccesary to do it all over a map, and certainly wont be possible to if you havent built a map with this in mind.

*HeFFalump
UnRegistered
posted 12-17-2001 08:43 AM          
another question ... (hehe sorry)

The BSP process splits the VIS stuff into 1028*1028 chunks, rite? so if u make a Hint brush that is larger than this (or that simply crosses a 'portal' between two chunks), does it get split up into those chunks, or left alone?

thx

djbob
UnRegistered
posted 12-17-2001 08:54 AM          
quote:
Originally posted by *HeFFalump:
another question ... (hehe sorry)

The BSP process splits the VIS stuff into 1028*1028 chunks, rite? so if u make a Hint brush that is larger than this (or that simply crosses a 'portal' between two chunks), does it get split up into those chunks, or left alone?

thx



Read the post again, the BSP process creates regluar splits in the bsp tree at 1024x1024 intervals. There is no way around this, without using the "blocksize" worldspawn parameter. But there will always be a split down the 0 lines on each axis. It does NOT split up brushes, it's splitting up nodes, which are the space you can occupy, just keep readin' till you understand. If that doesnt answer your question then you dont understand it yet.

[This message has been edited by djbob : 03-09-2002.]

SpletteR
Grunt

Posts: 65
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-17-2001 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpletteR Visit SpletteR's Homepage!   Click Here to Email SpletteR 
off topic: while u are at it, all tutorials speak of structural and detail brushes - apart from not understanding brush (always thaught thats something to uhm brush - but i guess its just a synonym for the geometry) what actually is a detail brush and what a structural brush.
Also, i have searched the whole web but i couldnt figure out what the option -vlight (in gtk) means - is it for vertex lightning? (cause i tried to play around with terrain once - compiling with the 4th option: bsp -vis -light - and the terrain partly disappeared when switching to vertex lightning
I know these are extremely noob questions and dont belong in this thread but as I am noob and non-english too, some of the explanations introduce more questions than answering - sorry
although i do think i kinda understand the hint stuff - in theory at least. Btw this was the first tutorial that really made click in terms of undertsanding Hints - nice and thanx - just one more question are Hints brushes that resmble the split plane or do u enclose the node in the hint brush??
thanx

[This message has been edited by SpletteR : 12-17-2001.]

SPoG-w0rk
Rookie

Posts: 42
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 12-19-2001 07:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SPoG-w0rk     
I'd like to try to clear up some of these terms =).

People use the word "node" to refer to leaf volumes. The word "node" is a general term for an item in a list or a tree. This means that "node" is actually the name for the thing people call a "BSP split", which is a plane.

(A 3-dimensional BSP is a binary tree of planes, each of which partition (eg. "split") a space. Therefore, each plane is a node in the BSP tree. )

The volumes people call "nodes" are actually one of a pair of volumes on either side of each node.

(Nodes are planes. Plane is the name for a 3D "half-space", which is a partition that separates 3D space into two front and a back spaces. PEOPLE WHO ARE PICKY ABOUT SPACE BEING INFINITE, PLEASE NOTE: A quake BSP describes a map which is a finite volume, therefore the front and back spaces of each partition also describe finite volumes. )

The things people call "leafs" are the volumes that have not been subdivided. To avoid confusion.. call them "leaf volumes". Some of these leaf volumes will have content properties, like "solid", because they contain nothing but the inside of a solid structural brush... and some will be empty or "nonsolid".

Take a leaf volume (which is either the front or the back of a node) and make a list of all its parent nodes (all the nodes back to the root of the tree), keeping track of which side of each node we are on. This produces a list of planes defining the leaf volume, exactly like a brush (The "back" side of all the planes together define a finite convex volume).

A "portal" is an idea that is needed only for speeding up the testing of visibility/occlusion between nonsolid leaf volumes.
Each "portal" is the convex polygonal face of a leaf volume that has a "nonsolid" property. If no face of a convex volume can see any face of another convex volume, you can be sure that no point within the first volume can see any point within the second volume.


quote:
Originally posted by Trenox:
I have a little offtopic question concerning the way you had build that final room. Is it normal to make a completely caulked structual "basemodel" and then cover it all up with detail brushed? (you do caulk the backsides of those detailbrushes right?) It is an approach i haven't seen before, but it sure looks efficient!

thanx!


When you understand how the quake3 compilers work, the method shown in djbob's screenshots is the only one that makes any sense. It gives you total control of the position and shape of all leaf volumes in the occlusion-BSP. With this control, you can intelligently optimise the occlusion-BSP to maximise the effectiveness of vis while keeping the "visdatasize" (size of the PVS table) small.

krekits
True Nightmare

Posts: 3710
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 04-19-2002 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krekits Visit krekits's Homepage!   Click Here to Email krekits 
Sweet Mary, mother of Jesus! I actually understand all of that SPoG-w0rk! Shows I've been spending too much time on these forums? It will take some time to learn to say leaf volume though.

[EDIT]Sorry for dragging this one into the light again. I didn't realize I was posting in a search I just did[/EDIT]

[This message has been edited by krekits : 04-19-2002.]

wviperw
Your friendly neighbor

Posts: 1699
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 04-19-2002 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wviperw Visit wviperw's Homepage!   Click Here to Email wviperw UIN: 121452151UIN: 121452151 
no, its good that you brought it up krekits. People need to be reminded of this every once in awhile. Almost could be a sticky...


Tom Cleghorn
Herbal Remedy

Posts: 1459
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-05-2002 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom Cleghorn Visit Tom Cleghorn's Homepage!   Click Here to Email Tom Cleghorn UIN: 6629313UIN: 6629313 
Hmph. One thing I'm never quite clear on - in the second diagram (with the angled hint), does the hint want to be triangular (ie, flush with the two outer walls), or a plain cube rotated so one face follows that diagonal?


wviperw
Your friendly neighbor

Posts: 1699
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 06-05-2002 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wviperw Visit wviperw's Homepage!   Click Here to Email wviperw UIN: 121452151UIN: 121452151 
Not exactly sure what you're asking there Tom. Just remember that each face of the hint brush is a really good canidate to split the BSP, so if your ONLY wanting that diagonal cut, then make sure the other faces are lined up w/ existing splits.


bigfoot113
The Afflicted

Posts: 798
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-06-2002 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigfoot113 Visit bigfoot113's Homepage!   Click Here to Email bigfoot113 UIN: 282669822UIN: 282669822 
very nice and simple tutorial, man !!
i really apreciate that people take time to explain this kind of things because it's very hard to learn hints alone !

i wanna know, on the shot you posted with the portlz file added, the hint zone corresponds to which color ?
maybe i didn't read the tutorial correctly but i don't understand everything (i'm not english or american !)

thanks again and keep it up

keep fragging on http://site.voila.fr/bigfoot_arena

Old_Fellow
The Illuminated

Posts: 1463
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 06-07-2002 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Old_Fellow    Click Here to Email Old_Fellow 
The green zone.


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