Newspaper Blogs

March 12, 2004

NEW PENTAGON PAPERS?....I guess I might as well get this out of the way. I've gotten a deluge of email pointing me to this piece in Salon and asking why I haven't commented on it.

In a nutshell, the article is about the neocons who ran the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans and how they hijacked the intelligence process before the Iraq war. It's mostly stuff we've all heard before, but what makes it noteworthy is that it was written by someone who is presumably a disinterested military professional: an Air Force lieutenant colonel who was on the inside and actually saw all this stuff as it was unfolding.

Unfortunately, that's also one of the reasons I didn't link to it: the lieutenant colonel in question is Karen Kwiatkowski, a hardcore libertarian opponent of the Bush administration who has since retired and taken to writing endless screeds about the neocons for and Pat Buchanan's magazine, among others. (In fact, the Salon piece is a light rewrite of her American Conservative article from earlier this year.) Needless to say, none of this makes her wrong. But it does at least give you pause for thought.

The other reason I didn't link to it is that despite Kwiatkowski's insider status, the article contains almost no firsthand reporting at all. If you read it carefully it turns out that about 99% of it is stuff that I could have written myself. There are one or two direct quotes ("don't say anything positive about Palestinians," "Anthony Zinni is a traitor") and a few suspicions and rumors, but that's about it. The rest mostly revolves around her disdain for the neocons on both a personal and policy level and her conviction that they were wrong about going to war.

As it happens, I agree with many of her views on this. Still, the question is whether her story deserves special attention because of her insider status, and after reading the article and failing to see much evidence of actual insider reporting I had my doubts. You can, of course, judge for yourself. Just click on the link.

Posted by Kevin Drum at March 12, 2004 03:58 PM | TrackBack


I recommend reading "Soldier for the Truth". It's very informative and a lot of it is an interview with Kwiatkowski.

Posted by: Sandals at March 12, 2004 04:01 PM | PERMALINK

Okay, I compared the two a little. She still complains a lot about neocons in Soldier for the Truth, but it's toned down a lot compared to the Salon interview. The LA Times article ends up being more believable, though, due to its tone and format.

Posted by: Sandals at March 12, 2004 04:03 PM | PERMALINK


You make a good point in that she does'nt have any evidence.But then again she does carry alot of credibility with me.I've been reading her for sometime now and want to believe her.If you look to the bottom of her story it has some links that she wrote when she was trying not to be noticed.That being said I sure would like to see Gen.Zinni come out and cooberate her story.It would blow a lid right thru the roof of this whitehouse.There are alot of stories/articles that the colonel has written before this one became the "darling" of the blogs and she has'nt change her story one bit.In fact every time I read her,I'm impressed by the consistency.

I wish some one would come out with her and tell the wole truth like she's trying to do.

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 04:06 PM | PERMALINK

"The other reason I didn't link to it is that despite Kwiatkowski's insider status, the article contains almost no firsthand reporting at all. If you read it carefully it turns out that about 99% of it is stuff that I could have written myself. There are one or two direct quotes ("don't say anything positive about Palestinians," "Anthony Zinni is a traitor") and a few suspicions and rumors, but that's about it. The rest mostly revolves around her disdain for the neocons on both personal and policy levels and her conviction that they were wrong about going to war."

Okay, I can get that... but, if you are favorably disposed towards Kwiatkowski, you could assume a different viewpoint- She isn't providing many quotes because she was not a reporter and wasn't writing things down or taping them. She only quoted what she remembered distinctly.

Posted by: Sandals at March 12, 2004 04:07 PM | PERMALINK

Oh, her story is consistent, no argument there. It's just a question of whether there's much substance to it.

Frankly, I'd like to believe her too. And in general terms, I do. Still, it's awfully hard to assess her credibility, even if she is on my side.

I'm not saying she's wrong. I'd just advise caution, that's all.

Posted by: Kevin Drum at March 12, 2004 04:09 PM | PERMALINK

I suppose. Most of the Bush supporters that we need to convince won't accept this kind of thing- you need absolutely bulletproof evidence.

Posted by: Sandals at March 12, 2004 04:11 PM | PERMALINK

simply because Kwiatowski is writing for people like Pat Buchanan does not make her non-credible. That is the kind of place you would be likely to find a conservative with integrity---writing for other conservatives who opposed the war. To expect someone like Ms Kwiatowski to embrace the leftist perspective on the war is, to put it bluntly, stupid. And to treat her as if she were not credible because he does not burn her bra, stop shaving her legs, and becoming a Melissa Etheridge groupie when she realizes how corrupt the Bush administration is makes no sense.

Posted by: paul lukasiak at March 12, 2004 04:12 PM | PERMALINK

They wingnuts in the admin have already called her "flaky" etc like they did with paul o neil , joe wilson etc...

I swear cheney could come out tommorrow and tell the world he cherrypicked info but the wingnuts would cry sour grapes.

Posted by: me at March 12, 2004 04:15 PM | PERMALINK

I read that article over a few days, and I had a very similar impressoin: It seemed to be a very concise overview of what happened from around springtime two years ago up through the war. We on the left were exposed to a great deal of the details and story line of the neo-con run-up thorugh various molar sources: small stories that went ignored, the foreign press, our impressions of the various players as the inspections went forward, powell presenting to the UN, the pundits at play, the Bush operatives making their rounds.

Kwiatkowski's article seems like a dream-come-true confirmation of all my prejudices (as factual as it may be) concerning this topic. So much so that it almost seems too good to be true.

I don't want to discount Kwiatkowski completely, but I would like to see her put through a vetting process that would provide us with more confidence in what she is saying.

One thing, though, that struck me about her piece pertains to the Niger forgery. She points out that the Niger forgery was only one element of the fabricated case that Iraq sought nuclear material from "Africa". The ineresting point she made was that the other evidence that they had was datd from the Eighties. Not techncally a lie, but certainly ... awe Hell. It's a fucking lie. These people will stoop to nothing to push thier agneda. Why aren't they on the block?

Posted by: JRI at March 12, 2004 04:17 PM | PERMALINK

Paul: I pretty clearly said that writing for Buchanan doesn't necessarily make her wrong. Still, it's pretty obvious she has an axe to grind.

The real question, I think, is whether she brings any genuinely new evidence to the table by virtue of her insider status. As I said, a careful reading of her article doesn't really turn up much.

Sorry, guys. I really want to believe in this too. But for the moment, I'm going to remain agnostic about her.

Posted by: Kevin Drum at March 12, 2004 04:20 PM | PERMALINK

I agree that the piece she wrote is really pretty thin soup. Even as I read I got tired of the long list of who people were, with not much in the way of actual incident. And the new incidents that were reported were not much of a surprise. Disappointing. One wants insiders to bring specific and concrete new information to the party--like the Knight Ridder report on how Richard Foster was pressured to keep secret the estimates of the cost of the Medicare plan.

Posted by: BayMike at March 12, 2004 04:29 PM | PERMALINK

Getting corroboration is going to be difficult--the type of insider story Kwiatkowski is telling is a career-ender in the intelligence part of the DoD. The only reason she's publishing this stuff is she took early retirement after 20 years. There may be colleagues of hers still working in the Pentagon all saying "You go, girl!", but they absolutely cannot confirm or deny any of it. Sure is brave of her to be saying this kind of thing after what happened to Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson.

BTW, I thought her articles are starting to get a little over the top recently--she's running out of new things to say and is getting frustrated that the Neocons may get away with it.

Posted by: dryListener at March 12, 2004 04:30 PM | PERMALINK


Rumsfeld, High-Ranking FBI Official Took Souvenirs From WTC Site

WASHINGTON - The Justice Department investigation that criticized FBI agents for taking souvenirs from the World Trade Center site also found that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and a high-ranking FBI official kept items from the Sept. 11 attack scenes.

The final investigatory report said the Justice Department inspector general confirmed Rumsfeld "has a piece of the airplane that flew into the Pentagon." The Associated Press obtained a copy of the report Friday.

These people are sick, sick, sick.

Posted by: The Media at March 12, 2004 04:37 PM | PERMALINK

Yeah, the Rumsfeld thing is bad. If the media doesn't nail them on this, they won't nail them on anything.

Posted by: emjaycue at March 12, 2004 04:39 PM | PERMALINK

E-mail everyone. E-mail your local newspaper and demand they cover this outrage.

Posted by: The Media at March 12, 2004 04:40 PM | PERMALINK

I think she serves two really important purposes.

First, a lot of people are not going to read Sy Hersh's Stovepiping article, which is the only other thing I know of that documents all of this so comprehensively. They won't for a variety of reasons--because they couldn't be bothered to find an old New Yorker article, because they think Hersh is a loon, or because they simply don't know it exists. I suspect Kwiatkowski will reach a lot of people who otherwise have missed this story (plus, the fact that she is military will give her a lot more credibility with some people than Hersh could ever get).

Second, she dsecribes in clear, unambiguous terms why we went to war:

the real reasons for occupation of Iraq -- more bases from which to flex U.S. muscle with Syria and Iran, and better positioning for the inevitable fall of the regional ruling sheikdoms. Maintaining OPEC on a dollar track and not a euro and fulfilling a half-baked imperial vision also played a role.

One of the things the left has never done since the WMD story got discredited is to provide a cohesive narrative to explain why we went. And a lot of people are going to wallow in their cognitive dissonance, looking for WMDs, until they can hear a such counter-narrative.

I think many of us would have come up with the same reasons Kwiatkowski gives, but since she is a somewhat credible insider, her word does serve as a key piece of evidence to support those reasons and contribute to that narrative.

One thing I've been wondering. Who said this, and what was he referring to?

I shared some of my concerns with a civilian who had been remotely acquainted with the Luti-Feith-Perle political clan in his previous work for one of the senior Pentagon witnesses during the Iran-Contra hearings.

Now that's an insider's story I'd like to read.

Posted by: emptywheel at March 12, 2004 04:41 PM | PERMALINK

I wouldn't get all up in arms about the debris thing. IMHO it's not that big of a deal. If you try to blow it up, you'll just get discredited.

Posted by: Sandals at March 12, 2004 04:45 PM | PERMALINK

I found the article useful as a primer for those who are disposed to think there was something going on besides WMD, but didn't exactly know what. It was sort of a McGuffey's reader (have I got that name right?) for the non-blog reader.

Posted by: Linkmeister at March 12, 2004 04:47 PM | PERMALINK

Oops. I forgot the most important line:

He told me these guys were engaged in something worse than Iran-Contra.

From someone involved in Iran-Contra testimony, what do you think would qualify as worse?

Posted by: emptywheel at March 12, 2004 04:47 PM | PERMALINK

I wouldn't get all up in arms about the debris thing. IMHO it's not that big of a deal.

Taking evidence from the scene of a crime, specifically a piece of the fucking airplane that crashed into the WTC isn't a big deal? The 9/11 Commission report isn't even completed and a piece of the evidence is sitting on Rumsfeld's desk as a goddamned souvenir? Are you crazy? Just who the hell do you think you are?

Posted by: The Media at March 12, 2004 04:48 PM | PERMALINK

Hang on, just to clarify, your position is it's not a "big deal" if the Secretary of Defense and FBI officials who are responsible for investigating just what the hell happened take evidence from the scene of the worst security failure in the US as a souvenir, before the 9/11 Commission report is completed? And we're not talking about a piece of brick, we're talking about fuselage from the airplane that destroyed the WTC?

Posted by: The Media at March 12, 2004 04:51 PM | PERMALINK

Kwiatowski first came out with this several months ago and I remember thinking 'why is no one picking this up.'

So I did a little googling and found some of her writings on They were a tad bit over the edge... a bit hysterical... almost like an Ann Coulter type for the left.

It may very well be that she has something to say, but if so, it is too bad it was done this way. Really reduces her credibilty IMHO.

Posted by: Jeebus at March 12, 2004 05:02 PM | PERMALINK

Kwiatkowski's article seems like a dream-come-true confirmation of all my prejudices (as factual as it may be) concerning this topic. So much so that it almost seems too good to be true.

Unfortunately*, virtually everything bad that we think about this administration later turns out to be true.

*Because it is bad for us and for the rest of the world.

Posted by: ___league at March 12, 2004 05:03 PM | PERMALINK

Heres a list of Karen Kwiatkowski: Archives

ALot of these articles are just bush bashing but some of them go into more detail of the article we are discussing.The first one I ever read made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.I dont remember which one it was.But I thought I would link to all of them.

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 05:05 PM | PERMALINK

I agree with Kevin, the article was released with much fanfare, however it contained little new information. The gist of the article is pretty much common knowledge, all she did was provide a few interesting details about the process. I was underwhelmed.

Posted by: David Perlman at March 12, 2004 05:20 PM | PERMALINK

Wow, you people really are nuts and will believe anything.
So tell us all, what changes to US intelligence did the Bush's make from when Clinton was in office, until the Vote for war in the Congress in Oct 2002???


Here's the list:

NONE, You foolish trolls!

Posted by: keiser at March 12, 2004 05:24 PM | PERMALINK

Salon = majorly overhyped this week

Posted by: L. Post at March 12, 2004 05:27 PM | PERMALINK

"Wow, you people really are nuts and will believe anything."

Hello,Mr Kettle?This is Mr Pot.Your black

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 05:32 PM | PERMALINK


Remove your eyes from Faux News for a moment and stop listening to Rush and read this report:

Now, I know the chances of you doing this are probably nil � so I will give you a little taste.

For example, the report said that in mid-2002, "official statements of the threat shifted dramatically toward greater alarm regarding certainty of the threat and greater certainty as to the evidence." The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) produced by the administration for Congress in October 2002, it said, "went far beyond the consensus intelligence assessments of the preceding five years." It adds, "The declassified NIE contained 40 distinct caveats or conditions usually dropped by officials" in their public statements.

Posted by: Jeebus at March 12, 2004 05:37 PM | PERMALINK

Thank you Kevin. I now look at the article, which I had read earlier in the week, under a different light.

Posted by: bob mcmanus at March 12, 2004 05:43 PM | PERMALINK

My friend had been ill the past two years and was unable to research the background on the these stories, and our whole discussion of this article went like this:

"Did you know that such and such did this?"

"Yeah, a year ago."

"And this?"


For people starting to just pay attention, this article was a great way to get up to speed. The curious will go find corroboration, and the furious will whine. I hope the woman realizes how huge the gathering shitstorm on her horizon is bound to get if her story takes off.

Posted by: Laura at March 12, 2004 05:46 PM | PERMALINK


My thoughts on Karen K., the Pentagon papers, and Kevin's post here.

Posted by: praktike at March 12, 2004 05:51 PM | PERMALINK

I'm definitely in the camp that, while Kwiatowski may well be telling the truth, her credibility is shot until proven otherwise. So yeah, I'd advise taking this with a *hefty* pinch of salt...

Posted by: Anarch at March 12, 2004 05:56 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by Kevin Drum: "Still, the question is whether her story deserves special attention because of her insider status, and after reading the article and failing to see much evidence of actual insider reporting I had my doubts."

Doubts about what? That she actually held the position at the Pentagon she claims to have? Look, she's telling what she knows. Her status as an "insider" extends to being inside the Pentagon, not inside the neocon circle. Thusly situated, she was, like virtually all of the military and all non-neocons, deliberately kept OUTSIDE of "smoking gun" situations. Did you expect her to bug Luti's office? Feith's? Rumsfeld's? Even if she had, we'd be learning little that is new now. Do you suppose these guys sat around saying, "Okay, here's the lie we're going to tell to the American people today?"

As for Kwiatkowski's purported Libertarian leanings somehow reflecting on her credibility, is it your contention that were she a flaming liberal the general public would be more disposed toward being swayed by her? I say get her story out there if we can. No matter what, even if she was a now reformed former neocon (a la 'Blinded by the Right'), if this story became truly widely reported she would be smeared relentlessly by the right-wing and the corporate media. But unless that smear included its own "smoking gun" which completely discredited her, widespread dissemination of her story would surely produce a net loss for Bush and a net gain for the truth.

Posted by: jayarbee at March 12, 2004 05:57 PM | PERMALINK

Media: I have to agree that taking souveniers is not a big deal. How could a bit of airplane be relevent? The cause of the crash is already known -- hijackers intentionally flew the plane into the building. The questions concern airport security and the use of intelligence information, not the details of how the plane broke apart. Removing the wreckage before engineers got to look at it was a big deal. This isn't.

That said, it may illuminate our dear secretary's character.

Posted by: Grep Agni at March 12, 2004 06:05 PM | PERMALINK

That said, it may illuminate our dear secretary's character.

He's a sick fuck. It's like taking a ladle from the Kool-Aid vat at Jonestown as a memento. Plus, he's the goddamned secretary of Defense, isn't he supposed to be held to a higher standard and, you know, not steal shit from a graveyard?

Posted by: The Media at March 12, 2004 06:09 PM | PERMALINK

There's a lot of circumstantial credibility--she is gratuitiously taking on an administration that makes a point of using dirty tactics against its critics. She has nothing to gain here, and probably is going to lose some of her relationships with her former colleagues. Unless George Soros has been paying her off under the table, I don't see any motivation beyond anger and a desire to set things right.

BTW, she was interviewed on Fox News not too long ago, I saw a transcript but can't find it now...she mostly held her own, and did not sound like a loon.

Posted by: dryListener at March 12, 2004 06:10 PM | PERMALINK

What jayarbee said. Who care about the rants she's written? This is about what she observed in the belly of the beast. It's a great primer, but, if you're bored by the lists of names, be careful, because she's introducing you to the people who will be the major GOP foreign policy players in the MI complex for some time to come: these guys are the inheritors of the mantles of Weinberger, Abrams, Wolfowitz, etc.

And again, as jayarbee says, what would we doubt? That she was in the Pentagon? That she observed these very logical things? I think sometimes it's important to remember that an insider's summary or overview can be very helpful, and this is a good article for making up a score-card of who is doing what inside the OSP.

Look, The Price of Loyalty is equally self-serving and indeed, in many ways moreso. In addition, O'Neil proved to be less than willing to become the vocal critic of the administration that his collaboration with Suskind demanded. But do I doubt his incredibly creepy descriptions of his meetings with Bush and Cheney? His nasty feud with Larry Lindsey? I suppose I could, but what would be the point?

Both accounts are inside baseball, and add context and color to more startling and criminal revelations.

Posted by: lordwhorfin at March 12, 2004 06:13 PM | PERMALINK

"I have to agree that taking souveniers is not a big deal. How could a bit of airplane be relevent? The cause of the crash is already known"

This story reeks of cronyism to the n th degree.If you or I were to be found in possesion of ANYTHING from ground zero we would be A)termed treasonous B)Brought up on federal charges of obstructing justice or C)called by the media as a ghoul and critisized endlessly or D) all of the above.

Just another day in the land of the free and the home of the brazen.

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 06:16 PM | PERMALINK

For me, it has nothing to do with her "purported Libertarian leanings" but rather the Ann Coulter like presentation. For example, here is one article she wrote for

The analysis of George Bush is of critical importance. As Dubya launches his re-election campaign, putting wars he has waged behind him, and planning new attacks on deflation, unemployment, tobacco, drugs, terrorism and any other bad attitudes resident in the American population � we need to get to know this president better.

Like most Americans, I perceive George Bush through the spectrum of video and images. In fact, I have learned a lot from the famous Dr. Evil dialogue with Austin Powers, in Dr. Evil�s parody of Hannibal Lector addressing Clarisse in the Silence of the Lambs.

And it�s blindingly apparent. Somebody has some daddy issues!

Folks might think Bush has an issue about his real daddy, but I don�t think so. Those issues were resolved through a couple of decades of partying, drinking, minor arrests, and piss-poor business acumen, resolved to the satisfaction of both with the younger�s occupation of the fifth most powerful political seat in the great state of Texas for eight years, and the concomitant crony capitalism that seat facilitated..

Thusly, over time, George W. Bush, proud Papa looking on, found himself. His presidency is his, not shared with Pops.

But while Dubya is apparently at peace with H. Dubya, it is clear that the fratboy hasn�t worked out everything, and quite possibly could use, if not a couple of six-packs with some boys his own age, at least a couple more sessions on the couch.

Dubya suffers from a strange, almost toadying, respect for his elders that, frankly, is abnormal in a man of his age.

This is the lever that neo-conservatives � or as one reader protests, neo-fascists � have been pulling repeatedly, like Bill Bennett at a slot machine, to get their wars for Israeli security and petrodinero and to pursue their natural born imperialism because "Damn it! We�re Americans!"

With the young people (Frum, Ari, Mary, Karen, etc.) quitting the Bush administration citing "overwork" and "family issues," the old fogies long past retirement age and with alarming health and/or weight issues (Rummy, Cheney, Sharon, Perle, even Greenspan) insist upon staying. The reason? A dangerous combination of their ambition and Bush�s co-dependency......

I'm not suggesting that there is not some truth here -- but if this is our source for the modern day "Pentagon Papers"... I think "mainstream America" may be a bit turned off by this. I know I was.

Posted by: Jeebus at March 12, 2004 06:24 PM | PERMALINK

To be fair, Bush held up a badge off of one of the officers killed at the WTC in a State of the Union speech, and no one was outraged about that at the time-- myself included.

What outrages me is that they forgot all about Osama and terrorism in favor of invading Saddam and their warped version of middle east redistricting... Maybe the memento Rummy kept wasn't a good enough reminder, but I try not to get caught up in the trivia. I'd sooner focus my attention on what's real and important -- bring those responsible to justice, comfort the families, and do our best to ensure it never happens again. It's their lack of followup which should concern us, not the reminders.

Remember the things that they chose to forget. Not the trivia.

just my two pennies

Posted by: edverb at March 12, 2004 06:26 PM | PERMALINK

Thank-you Kevin. I skimmed the article, (that means I read it after about 1:00 am, about 3 martinis down), and came away with the feeling that something didn't quite feel right about it.

As much as everything about it rings true, it just doesn't sound authentic, and only a real journalist would point that out, even though it runs against interest.

Again, thanks, for being a professional.

Posted by: Brautigan at March 12, 2004 06:29 PM | PERMALINK

These comments to me are depressing,because this woman is a real American hero.TO stand up to the cabal and write what she has at some peril(Wilson/Plame) has to me quite a bit of corrage of witch is so lacking here in these times.All we can come up with is sceptisism(sp)?I think that if we were to throw our weight behind this kind of courage we would find more to come out like her and tell the truth.People are scared to come out and blow the whistle on these crooks and liars,we must fall in behind them or lose the fight thru distrust of loyalties.We need all the help we can get and lo and behold here is some of that and we want to turn our backs on it??

A comment above said she was interviewed by faux news,This to me says that the cabal IS scared of her.Should'nt we take even the notion that the faux would listen to her to be a sign that we have something?

/rant off. soap box gone

Posted by: smalfish at March 12, 2004 06:53 PM | PERMALINK

Kev: The days of fair handed political analysis-- such as you're inclined to practice-- are long gone. You're embarrassing yourself, man.

Posted by: Sovereign Eye at March 12, 2004 06:56 PM | PERMALINK

While many of us may be familiar with Kwiatkowski's internet articles, readers of the printed (on newsprint) LA Times are probably not.

The article is like a political stump speech: fresh to those who are hearing it for the first time, but old news to the camp followers (like us) who've heard it a million times.

That Kwiatkowski has finally made it into the mainstream LA Times should be looked upon as an encouraging sign. The article is measured and not at all hyperbolic.

Some of her other articles are a little Maureen Dowdish in their sassiness, but even with those the audience was targeted and few would have objected to the tone or the style.

Kwiatkowski seems like a very rare specimen to me: a courageous person, who has been forced by her conscience to go against everything she once thought was right and established. Now she's not so sure. To me, that's a true convert; a precious resource.

To mutter about how "credible" (or perhaps more accurately, how "non-credible") she may be for altering her writing styles to suit her readers, or to outright question her veracity, or the truth about her background (all easily verifiable anyway) is a symptom of how cynical some posters here are.

Kwiatkowski's story has been - in the year or so since I've been reading her articles - consistent, cogent and very hard-hitting. She should be taken notice of and applauded for sticking to her guns.

The true meaning of the LA Times story is that it was printed at all. Kwiatkowski's is now another critical voice that's made it to the mainstream media.

This has good and bad aspects to it. It is a good thing for dissemination of the truth, but possibly not so good a thing for Kwiatkowski personally. After seeing the treatment meted out to 9/11 relatives and spouses by O'Reilly and Hannity in the past couple of weeks (on the subject of their objections to the 9/11 ad campaign), I fear Kwiatkowski is going to have a rough time at the hands of the Right's expert (and quite cold-blooded) character assassins.

Posted by: Aussie Bob at March 12, 2004 08:04 PM | PERMALINK

Karen Kwiatkowski interview on Fox (John Gibson), Wednesday March 10th:


Took some digging to find it--Fox doesn't publish transcripts for some reason.

Posted by: dryListener at March 12, 2004 08:17 PM | PERMALINK

Posted by: Brautigan : "As much as everything about it rings true, it just doesn't sound authentic ... "

Ring true, authentic -- where's the meaningful distinction when it comes to this article?

Posted by Jeebus: "For me, it has nothing to do with her "purported Libertarian leanings" but rather the Ann Coulter like presentation."

While hers may not be the voice I'd have ordered from central casting, I fail to see any similarity to Ann Coulter. Her style, admittedly colorful and perhaps a bit too given to creative expression, is not to call for violence against her opponents nor to invent facts. Does she engage in some dubious analysis and subjective conclusions? Well, if so, it's likely due to my earlier mentioned limitations of her "insider" status. She knows what she knows and does not give me the impression that her obvious padding of that with her personal reflections are attempts to pass that off as facts. So, yeah, she writes as if she is trying to entertain us as well as inform us. This real person quality of hers in some ways adds to her authenticity, rather than detracting. After giving 20 years of military service to the nation, she is attempting to contribute (as many of us do -- as Kevin does, for instance) to a dialog which she hopes will improve the state of her country.

Ann Coulter? Have you ever seen her? Have you watched her spew venom and exude arrogance, all coupled with lies? Take a look at the photo of this woman, Ms. Kwiatkowski; she is the picture of middle-aged pleasantness and sincerity.

No, she's not going to bring about a landslide for Kerry, as nothing is likely to. Bush's ability to control events and the media are for more likely to produce a lopsided victory for his side. As has been stated, this isn't a "smoking gun." We must resign ourselves to the slim chance we'll have such a weapon. We need all the help we can get.

Posted by: jayarbee at March 12, 2004 08:20 PM | PERMALINK

She is a patriot.She believes that the republic and its precious liberties are being lost. Many of you will not share her Libertarian slant on liberty. But she has added some circumstance to a story of sordid policy manipulation. Naturally both she and Pat Buchanan are more offended than you. They thought it was their team.

Posted by: mateo at March 12, 2004 08:24 PM | PERMALINK

No one seems to have mentioned the real disappointment with the Kwiatkowski article...

Posted by: John Smith at March 12, 2004 08:28 PM | PERMALINK

Thanks, Kevin, for bringing up the topic (yes, I was one of those who sent e-mail to you re the Salon piece). After reading all the comments, I unfortunately can understand everyone's point of view and am left wondering. As has been said, the fact that the Office of Special Plans was the main machine in the Bush lie factory is not news.
However, I was grateful for the "scenario" of how this Office actually came to have the power to pull it off. It's still not totally clear to me...but at least I have a hint now as to how it might have worked. My remaining question involves Tenet and the CIA. Why is he/it continuing to protect the OSP? He had to have known what was going on. Anybody have any help for me? Something I don't know about Tenet? And is it true that the OSP is off-limits to the commission investigating the so-called intelligence failures leading to the war?

Posted by: Paula at March 12, 2004 08:47 PM | PERMALINK

As former military myself, although with a more liberal bent, I think LtCol Kwiatkowski may be reaching a different audience than most of us on this blog. Although she does not write as smoothly as a journalist or columnist, I think her stories may appeal to the libertarians and conservatives (but not the religious right) in the military. Among the junior and mid-grade officers, disillusioned with the prospect of a Viet Nam in our lifetimes... I think her words will carry some weight. Whether or not she's 100% accurate - the military, like any organization, works on some level with the rumor mill as just another source of truth.

Posted by: S wapiti at March 12, 2004 09:28 PM | PERMALINK

Well, I read most of her article and it sounds alot like beaurucratis Bull Sh-t. I spent 24 years working with the military and from what she says:

FIRST: Her carreer was washed up and going nowhere. She was a Lt. Colonel at 20 years and sent to warm a chair in a policy office. The policy office doesn't analyze intelligence....what she refers to is policy talking points for Pentagon Brass to use so that they aren't contradicting each other in the press - - -its called public relations,,dressed up as policy. They were simply regurgitating
what they heard from the adminstration leadership.

From reading this I will never trust Hackworth again, to think he was relying on someone this unstable to provide insight is pathetic.

Why was the article so long, I could have writen it much shorter:

Disgruntled, washed up Lt Colonel expalins what happens when adnminsrations change and public relations messages evolve based on world events.

Pretty much shows Clinton did not take terrorism and state sponsorship of terrorism seriously.

She also apprently is not found of Jews...but that happens will all leftists as well as soon as some Jew wants to defend themselves.

Posted by: kesier at March 13, 2004 02:11 AM | PERMALINK


For all you liberals since I won't have time to respond individually:

I accept your apology for doubting me.

Posted by: kesier at March 13, 2004 03:01 AM | PERMALINK

Since Dumbo made as his leader a reference to the purloined Pentagon papers, let's revisit "MemoGate". Here's a rebuttal by Manuel Miranda.

What Wrongdoing?
Hate to say it, but: There is no there there.

By Manuel Miranda

Washington never ceases to amuse. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D., Vt.), himself no stranger to leaking, is furious that Democrat staff memos on politicizing judicial confirmations were read and disclosed. The fact that Republicans (including myself) read Democrats' documents on an open server to which they had an affirmative grant of access does not stop his histrionics.

Just as amusing, the Washington Post ran two recent editorials indignant that Republicans had read and leaked the Democratic memos. But where was the media sanctimony when, during the Clarence Thomas nomination battle, the Post took illegal possession of the Anita Hill documents, or in other cases of unethical conduct that have embarrassed Republicans?

Unlike the Democratic judiciary memos, the Anita Hill documents were "classified"; their disclosure was a crime. In contrast, the Democratic memos currently under discussion were neither "classified" nor "confidential" under the Senate's own rules. In addition, functionally, the computer server literally "served" them to Republican staffers; no hacking, no stealing.

In fact, the Code of Ethics for Government Service states that it is a government employee's duty to "expose corruption wherever discovered." This is a whistleblower provision that eliminates any doubt as to the ethical obligations of Senate employees who read documentation of wrongdoing. How would corruption be otherwise discovered?

Do government wrongdoers usually call in their staff to witness or proofread their wrongdoing? Of course not. Corruption will always be discovered through the inadvertence of the wrongdoer. Congress has given every government employee free agency.

Democrats need to be reminded of other things in this "Memogate-less" scandal as well, and the first GOP senator who does will be due wide applause. First, Democrats should get a refresher course in the doctrine of unclean hands � that even an aggrieved party should "not be heard to complain" if their own hands are dirty. This principle would be well applied by Republicans to the political kabuki dance that we call the Senate Judiciary Committee. It will take one GOP senator to remind the American people, in a loud voice, of the stream of indignities and abuses that Democrats have introduced into the confirmation process.

This includes heinous acts, such as painting Charles Pickering as a racist and blocking Miguel Estrada because, as one Democrat memo put it, "he is Latino," as well as the abuse of the Constitution itself through the misuse of the filibuster to prevent honest up or down votes.

Next, Democrats need to stop carping about their invidious documents. Most children come to understand shame at an early age. Rather than showing embarrassment, Senate Democrats seem fixated on taking down the names of everyone who might have seen them with their pants down.

As for Republicans, they need to read Senate Rule 29.5 and its legislative history. That rule says what is okay to leak to the Post and what is not. It was expanded after Democrats unlawfully leaked the Anita Hill documents. Former Democratic Majority Leader George Mitchell laid out its limited purpose "to protect the privacy and other interests of individuals and organizations who provide information or are the subject of inquiry." Mitchell defined "confidential" as "information received in closed session, information obtained in the confidential phases of investigations, and classified national security information." The rule's expansion did not protect confidences of individual senators, or the party caucuses.

In short, the Senate protects official business, but not the illicit activity that the Democrat memos display. Such partisan collusion is not the official business of the United States Senate and is therefore not protected.

Democrats think so too. In late 2001, Sen. Ted Kennedy's (D., Mass.) counsel got hold of a Republican strategy memo. She promptly distributed it, and then denied doing so. Her colleagues leaked it to newspapers. She then wrote talking points for Kennedy saying: "There was no impropriety, as the information [distributed] was not confidential or privileged." Similarly, in January, Beryl Howell, former counsel to Senator Leahy, told the Boston Globe that it was probably true that the disclosed memos were not "confidential" under Senate rules.

So why the fuss over the leaking of the Democrats' documents? Given the legal access, the only mistake Republican staffers made when discovering the judiciary documents was not making copies and holding a press conference. No law can protect evidence of wrongdoing. Senators cannot protect themselves from the scrutiny of the American people. A recent Supreme Court ruling suggests that each document claimed to be private might need separate examination and be weighed against the public interest in its disclosure.

Senator Mitchell said it best in 1992 when adopting the Senate's confidentiality rule. It is, he said, "the fundamental policy of the Senate to favor openness and public access to information."

If they can't be shamed, Democrats should at least quit complaining, lest the American people suspect that politicians who protest so bitterly about having their documents read are people with something to hide.

Actually, it's too late.

Manuel Miranda is former counsel to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch.

Posted by: Norman Rogers at March 13, 2004 05:37 AM | PERMALINK

Seems that in this crowd Kwiatkowsky can't win for losing. We're told "we already knew all this" but also "it doen't ring true". She's criticized for "not offering additional details" and also criticized for "going over the top". Some believe she's "too right-wing" or, alternately, she's a "leftist".

In reality Kwiatkowsky has given the best insider account of how the OSP became a rogue propaganda mill, and the best list of why invading Iraq was so important to Blair & Bush.

And, as she notes, the coverup is well under way with an "investigation" that is not allowed to investigate the role of OSP.

All of the criticism here looks like a policeman arguing with the witness to a bank robbery, while the robbers leave town with nobody chasing them.

Posted by: serial catowner at March 13, 2004 06:32 AM | PERMALINK

Serial catowner sees through some of the apprehensive fog puffed out by Kevin Drum and others. OSP was indeed a rogue propaganda mill. But that alone is not making some of you anxious. Probably what is troubling you is that Karen K. lends some serious support to Pat Buchanan's contention that Feith and others were acting as much for narrow Likud policy interests in Israel as they were acting for the American national interest.

Posted by: mateo at March 13, 2004 07:45 AM | PERMALINK

Um, kesier, the article you linked to is a report on administration spin of the issue, and even that article compares OSP with the 70s "B Team" groups used to exaggerate the Soviet threat. This indicates the issue is starting to snowball, since the administration feels the need to respond.

The end of the article simply confirms that the OSP team briefings went directly to VP and Pres, and that the OSP's conclusions were "shared with the CIA". That sure as heck doesn't mean vetted or approved by the CIA.

Posted by: dryListener at March 13, 2004 08:14 AM | PERMALINK

Just what is it that Liberals have against Jews????

Or is it just the Liberal conspiracy theorists that hate Jews....that would explain Hilliary Clintons comments about Effing Jews.

Posted by: kesier at March 13, 2004 08:15 AM | PERMALINK

drylistener open her piehole and shows complete lack of knowledge:
"""That sure as heck doesn't mean vetted or approved by the CIA.""""

Ohhh, everyone has to be vetted and approved by the CIA now do they???? Where did you learn that in your Government 101 Class?
Here's a little clue, the CIA produces less than a quarter of US intelligence, and none of the rest is VETTED by them.

Posted by: keiser at March 13, 2004 08:18 AM | PERMALINK

From reading this I will never trust Hackworth again, to think he was relying on someone this unstable to provide insight is pathetic.

Hackworth is sometimes useful, but I haven't trusted him since I read his book. It was a while back, but as I recall he retired to avoid being court-martialed for smoking pot with enlisted soldiers in a field brothel made of plywood stolen from the Government. Super tactical guy; maybe too many character flaws.

Posted by: S wapiti at March 13, 2004 08:30 AM | PERMALINK

My ex, a Navy pilot, worked a stint in the pentagon for a year after 9-11, and he told me he was never happier to get out of that assignment. He said "the things they're doing in the name of national security are appalling." This from a man who only last week was spouting RNC talking points (spooky, because he doesn't even like Bush, but is a right wing Republican). He was working in nuclear safety at the time. He was also in Montgomery at the time the future 9-11 hijackers were well known to be taking flight lessons at military bases in the US.

Posted by: Laura at March 13, 2004 09:11 AM | PERMALINK

Ohhh, everyone has to be vetted and approved by the CIA now do they???? Where did you learn that in your Government 101 Class? -- Kesier

The white house story on the "false intelligence" Bush used in various public speeches, including SOTU, is that it came from the CIA, so how could they have known it was fake?. If, in fact, it came from OSP, which was installed in the Pentagon by the white house, then at the least the white house was sucking its own exhaust, at the worst committing the impeachable offense of telling bald-faced lies in the SOTU address. OSP's function was to provide plausible deniability for an illegal policy. Now we get to find out if the US is still a country ruled by law.

Posted by: dryListener at March 13, 2004 09:42 AM | PERMALINK

I read it, and I'm sorry I did. Not just because it contained no shred of new information, but also because the writing is insufferable. Does Slaon have no editor? Are there no minimum standards of ability?

Posted by: Russ at March 13, 2004 09:46 AM | PERMALINK

Okay. I still disagree with you, kevin- Nothing about the article "rings false" for me. I suggest you take a look at the "Faux" (the title is truely apporpriate atm) news article linked above.

I don't get this whole mistrust of Kwiatkwoski. Most of you here seem to be just going along with the majority opinon, because it's easier.

I don't get it.

Posted by: Sandals at March 13, 2004 09:54 AM | PERMALINK

"Ring true, authentic -- where's the meaningful distinction when it comes to this article?"

While much of her article corroborates what we've heard from other sources, and thus rings "true", her voice just doesn't sound authentic - as though maybe she's passing along second-hand info.

Granted, it could be just that she's a terrible writer.

Posted by: Brautigan at March 13, 2004 11:50 AM | PERMALINK

Y'all are failing to ask an important question when you point out that "all that she put down on paper is not all that new, and we had been hearing about this stuff for a year now.."

My question, when I read this article and noted the same basic reaction, which was "ummmm, ok, so tell me something I don't know" was:

Who was Seymour Hersch's source?

Posted by: Dan at March 14, 2004 03:00 AM | PERMALINK

New Pentagon Papers ~ Not...

Not that the story and focus is not presented in a good light, the only problem is that there is nothing that one can point a finger to and say, there was a specific fraud, waste or abuse issue at hand. Had Kwiatkowski taken her suspicions to the IG, let's say... Then, acting as a stewart for taxpayer dollars, she could have raised the attention of her concerns to a level where the agenda she reported might have been at the very least detoured.

True, she could have been re-assigned, summarily targeted for a career freeze, or something of the sort, but she was retiring anyway--and even if she was not retiring, I believe that it would have been a sacrifice worth taking--especially if her beliefs in what she saw taking place were as strong as she reported after the fact.

This is what whistle-blowers go through. It is a matter of character and conscience. She decided to leave the fold of the military, giving her the implied freedom to speak her mind...

Not to judge, but that is the way she played her hand--to me, it says that her convictions might not have been as strong as she realized after the fact... Or, someone (looking at the deal from a Rush Limbaugh point of view) else could simply accuse her of having a case of sour grapes.

As I said, I agree with what she says in spirit and at the basics--I only wish that the complaint was documented in such a manner as to put a firm spotlight on the cochroaches associted to the story--and at the same time--clearly and truely unbiasly leading to and leaving a paper trail highlighting their antics...

PK sends...

Posted by: PK at March 15, 2004 06:40 AM | PERMALINK

It was West who first tole the crepe plaster on that part of the wall where the equipped tomb masonry had been covered up. To see the stream of them in that rambling reversible lightning was broody. Of the reality of the jungle city described by chauffeur-driven Sir Wade, Arthur Jermyn had no stronger doubt

Posted by: ambien at April 1, 2004 03:33 PM | PERMALINK

I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.

Posted by: Poler Emily at May 3, 2004 07:15 AM | PERMALINK

Hi - I'm researching Southern California MSNBC viewers to coordinate a project featuring input of actual MSNBC programing watchers. If you are in SoCal area, politically minded/media aware and a regular (or semi-regular) viewer of Abrams Report, Hardball, Deborah Norville Tonight or Scarborough Country, I'd really appreciate an e-mail (with city of residence) with your comments on any of those shows. Please include any contact info that you're willing to disclose in case I have a few extra questions. Thanks! Rufino

Posted by: Rufino at May 3, 2004 05:37 PM | PERMALINK

Insanity is forgetting to believe a few lies.

Posted by: Bradley Joseph F. at May 20, 2004 11:55 PM | PERMALINK

Buy this it is a wonderful addition to anyones home entertainment system.

Posted by: direct TV at May 28, 2004 12:06 AM | PERMALINK

Get WWW.I-DISH-NETWORK.ORG rid of cable and upgrade your living room by clicking here!

Posted by: click here at June 3, 2004 10:59 AM | PERMALINK

Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.

Posted by: Klavans Judith at June 3, 2004 05:17 PM | PERMALINK

Find your www.ALL-FIORICET.COM here, 100% discrete!

Posted by: order fioricet at June 14, 2004 03:53 PM | PERMALINK

go to WWW.E-CREDIT-CARD-DEBT.COM for great deals!

Posted by: credit card debt at June 15, 2004 10:43 AM | PERMALINK

Now you can Play Poker online any time!

Posted by: free Online poker at June 25, 2004 12:00 PM | PERMALINK

Communism has nothing to do with love. Communism is an excellent hammer which we use to destroy our enemy.

Posted by: Harris Laurel at June 30, 2004 09:33 AM | PERMALINK
Therapist Supplies Warehouse Shop Showroom Massage Table Couch


london .org  

 massage london .biz  

massage london .me. uk  


london org. uk   london

  massage .me. uk   massage

now home .co. uk   massage

now site .co. uk   massage

now .co. uk   massage

now .me. uk   massage

now .org. uk   my

massage now .co. uk   my

massage- now .co. uk   i

massage .biz   i

massage .me. uk   i

massage .org. uk   london

massage .biz   london

massage .org   massage   massage

me .org. uk   massage

online .me. uk   massage

online .org. uk   my

london massage .co. uk   my

massage .co. uk   my

massage .me. uk   my

massage .org. uk   back

rub .me. uk   back

rub .org. uk   body

work .me. uk   holistic

page .co. uk   holistic

web .co. uk   massage

me .biz massage

me .info   massage

thai .co. uk   massage

therapy .me. uk   my

website .org. uk  my

alternative co. uk   my

body work .co. uk   my

drug .co. uk   my

medicine .me. uk   my

rub .co. uk   my

thai massage .co. uk   my

thai massage .org. uk  my

therapy .me .uk   oil

massage .co .uk   pumper.

me. uk   pumper

.org. uk    rub

.org. uk   rub

down .me. uk   rub

down .org. uk   thai

massage .org. uk   therapist

online .co. uk   treatment

.me. uk   tuina

.org. uk   get

massage .co. uk get

massage .me. uk   get

massage .org. uk   i

want massage .co. uk   i

want massage .me. uk   i

want massage .org. uk   london

therapy .biz   london

therapy .co. uk   london

therapy .me. uk   massage

london home .co. uk  massage

london online .co. uk   massage

london page .co. uk  massage

london shop .co. uk   massage

london site .co. uk   massage

london web .co. uk   massage

london uk  massage

london page .co. uk   massage

london shop .co. uk massage

london web .co. uk   my

massage london .co. uk   my

massage london co. uk   my

massage london .me. uk   my

massage london .org. uk   my

therapy london .co. uk   my

therapy london .me. uk   my

therapy london .org. uk   therapeutic

massage .me. uk   therapy

london .me. uk   therapy

london .org. uk London UK Network Referral

http://www.massage Massage

Therapist Supplies Warehouse Shop Showroom Massage Table Couch Chair http://www.massage about

your therapist - qualifications, diplomas, certifications


http://www.massage Therapists

Co-operative  massage

massage West London massage
England  http://www.get Central

London  massage


London massage

South London massage http://www.holistic East London

massage http://www.holistic North West London http://www.i


West London massage

South East London massage

Acton massage  http://www.i want Chiswick massage

Ealing massage



Fulham massage Shepperds

Bush massage Bayswater massage w9 massage Nothing Hill


Holland Park

massage http://www.massage http://www.massage

london Massage


http://www.massage w9 massage http://www.massage

london London massage http://www.massage w1 massage http://www.massage

london w2 massage

http://www.massage w3 massage http://www.massage http://www.massage

london w4 massage http://www.massage w5 massage http://www.massage w6 massage http://www.massage

w7 massage

w8 massage http://www.massage

w10 massage

w11 massage

w12 massage

w13 massage

w14 massage http://www.massage sw1 massage http://www.massage http://www.massage sw3 massage http://www.massage sw2 massage sw4 massage sw5 massage london sw6 massage sw7 massage

massage sw8 massage sw9 massage sw10

massage sw11

massage sw12 massage


massage sw13 massage sw14 massage sw15 massage sw 16 massage

thai nw1 massage

thai nw2 massage nw3 massage

therapy nw4 massage

therapy nw5 massage

therapy nw6 massage

nw7 massage http://www.oil

nw 8 massage nw9 massage

http://www.rub nw10 massage

nw11 massage http://www.thai




domain names direct marketing marketing online search engine promotion

search engine optimisation web design web development web designer web

site design web hosting web promotion web marketing http://www.a 
Alternative medicine London http://www.a 
London health complementary http://www.a 

therapies http://www.all
holistic London therapy http://www.all

healing massage London http://www.all

London England massage

therapy http://www.america
clothes, clothing, car, motorcar, automobile, race http://www.america
therapeutic massage London http://www.america

London bowen technique http://www.america

therapy  bodywork London

swedish massage London http://www.america

massage London

chinese massage London http://www.america
craniosacral therapy London

  London UK hawaiian massage


lomi lomi London http://www.america 
Oklahoma http://www.america

manual lymphatic drainage London http://www.america

lymphatic massage London

massage pulsing  London

on site chair

massage London

office massage London

massage table UK http://www.america
massage couch UK http://www.america

massage couch London UK beauty bed

massage supplies warehouse London UK http://www.b
massage chair uk http://www.b


table covers London UK http://www.b
massage table store london UK

portable massage tables London UK http://www.b
massage tables UK London http://www.b

in london,thai

massage courses UK 
http://www.c  US
California State business

alternative health London http://www.d
alternative cancer treatment London UK http://www.d

occupational therapy London therapy
equipment london

indian massage london UK http://www.drag clothes, clothing, car, motorcar,
automobile, race
http://www.drag famous
celebrities in America
http://www.f*ck game,
sport, athletic contests, the equipment for a game, wild animals or birds hunted
for sport or food, gamble http://www.g http://www.get

aromatherapy massage london http://www.ham
Hawaii, the
Hawaiian Islands, calling attention, expressing joy http://www.hi

http://www.hit encounter
America, arrive at America, successful pop record, stroke of good luck http://www.hit
massage technique

http://www.i massage service
London holistic medicine

sports massage london US Idaho State, American Identity
Identification Card

central london

http://www.i love

domain names

search engine promotion

search engine optimisation

web design http://www.i

massage products London UK http://www.jam American Jam, Jamaican American

http://www.l Latin
America, Los Angeles, US Louisiana State

alternative health Lodon


tissue massage london

web development

web designer  web

site design
http://www.m US
Massachusetts State US
Maine, ME Myalgic Encephalomyelitis USA

web promotion North
America, name, new

manual lymph drainage London web marketing http://www.oh US Ohio State

US Oklahoma State massage
london http://www.ok US
Oklahoma State http://www.p US Pennsylvania State


names for sale top-level websites for sale domain brokers 
http://www.shit commercial domains

lease web pages

website names for sale http://www.the

internet websites business


ebusiness domains http://www.the
generic domain names

top-level domain names  medical domain

medical domains

domain names
professional domains


domain name sellers international

domain names

rent sale houses USA domestic domain names http://www.usa
website addresses property mortgage http://www.usa

how to buy a domain name http://www.usa
US Oklahoma

political domain names http://www.usa
web names http://www.usa

website names business web

business websites buy
shopping domains

buying domain names buying domain

commercial domain names http://www.usa commercial
US Virginia State, Veterans Administration, Vicar
Apostolic, Vice Admiral
US Washington State, West America

web page
kiss America, vote America, films classified as suitable
for adults only
http://www.x YMCA,
YWCA, American Sweet Potato


page names web page
sales web pages for
sale website
domains website
name http://www.all 
medicines website names http://www.all


microsoft b gates web sites for sale http://www.bill

websites for sale clothes,
clothing, car, motorcar, automobile, race


Domain Names-For

Sale http://www.g STUPID

aol subscription http://www.get
google search engine email
account from google free
business on google
google information

google UK
 google network
google incorporation

google organisation
 google personal computer sale

buy google pc united kingdom
computer sale uk

computer information uk

love uk  love
shoppping uk website
designing and promotion

search yahoo uk subscribe
to aol search

yahoo uk searching I
love yahoo

microsoft microsoft uk software msn
seach uk

love no love uk me
no love no
love organisation

no sex organisation uk
is ok

business in the uk

information about the uk info the
united kingdom organisation uk

social networking website PC
GOOGLE SALE UK http://www.pc

the bill gates uk http://www.the

http://www.the bill

I am the bill gates http://www.the
the google search engine uk http://www.the

anarchy in the uk business http://www.the

the yahoo serach engine in the uk
business information in the uk

 we are aol ISP in the uk use
google uk to search the net http://www.we

we love the uk http://www.we
information uk

http://www.we love use
yahoo to search uk http://www.we

sailing yacht uk I am no 1
on google uk

1000 domain names uk

count one two three uk website
for sale

webpage for rent

site for lease
website promotion

website optimisation

website designing search
engine uk



buy sell mobile phone uk nokia

free digital mobile phones sale

health resources uk

revolutionary socialism uk 
socialist organisation

spgb socialist party of great britain

anticapitalism uk

anticapitalist organisation uk future
socialist society

marxism uk
socialist party

world socialist movement Domain Names-For

Sale http://www.inventors
inventors in the UK http://www.america
adult  business in america http://www.america
erotics in the uk http://www.america
adult services in Lodon England UK http://www.america 
american escort bum
made in america the usa http://www.bum 
I don't like I hate,
adult services in the United States of America the USA http://www.fuck
american sex website for sale UK
colon cleansing in America the USA http://www.shit
no sex
england London UK

http://www.all all sexes the UK  http://www.alls love website UK england http://www.e erotic website http://www.e sex sells in the UK London http://www.e love site http://www.e sex shop england UK http://www.e sex website sex shopping UK http://www.e sexs sex shop organisation uk http://www.get love site business http://www.get e love UK http://www.get rent a love web site http://www.get website promotion http://www.get adult industry website UK http://www.get eroticism UK site http://www.get get sensual exitement site http://www.get website optimisation and promotiuon UK http://www.get sex adult domain names for sale http://www.i love unique domain name for rent http://www.i love sex sex shopping online http://www.i my home England UK erotic magazine UK London I love buying online my personal website UK seks eros London England UK adult entertainment England UK sex girlfriend UK sex my english girlfriends sex personal website sex at home the UK home sex organisation website for sale sex pages my private website girls online domain name for sale hidden camera pictures different sexes sex change http://www.sexi I shop for sexy underwear http://www.sexi live online camera  pictures http://www.sexi domain names for sale
I love sex me UK website for sale organisation of sex workers UK http://www.the socialist socialist socialis socialist world socialist movement socialist party of great britain domain names for sale


you can play blackjack here!

Posted by: blackjack at July 21, 2004 08:20 PM | PERMALINK

Very good subject.
sonnerie gratuite
sonnerie alcatel
sonnerie mobile
sonnerie motorola
sonnerie a composer
sonnerie ericsson
sonnerie nokia 3310
nokia sonnerie
sonnerie pour alcatel
sonnerie portable nokia
sonnerie pour motorola
composition de sonneries
sonnerie panasonic
sonnerie pour samsung
telechargement de sonneries
sonnerie sagem myx5
sonnerie pour telephone portable
partition de sonneries
sonnerie a telecharger
gratuit sonneries
samsung sonneries
sonnerie hi fi
code sonnerie
sonnerie sony ericsson
sonnerie motorola v500
compositeur sonnerie nokia
sonnerie nec n21i
sonnerie telephone mobile
sonnerie gratuite motorola
sonnerie telecharger
sonnerie pour telephone portable
sonnerie polyphonique samsung
nokia 3310 sonneries
sonnerie telephone gratuite
sonnerie logo portable
telechargement sonnerie portable
sonnerie logo gratuit
logo et sonnerie gratuit
sonnerie nokia composer
sonnerie t68i
sonnerie samsung a300
sonnerie portable composer
composer des sonneries
sonnerie repondeur
logo et sonnerie gratuite
logo et sonnerie portable
sonnerie portable composer
sonnerie a telecharger
logo et sonnerie pour portable
telecharger sonnerie gratuite
sonnerie motorola c333
sonnerie portable gratuite
sonnerie polyphonique pour samsung a800
logo sonnerie gratuite
sonnerie toshiba ts21i
compose sonnerie
telechargement gratuit sonnerie polyphonique
sonnerie nokia 7650
composition sonnerie portable
telechargement sonnerie gratuite
sonnerie polyphonique gratuit
sonnerie composee
sonnerie samsung a800
sonnerie gratuite nokia
sonnerie motorola c330
sonnerie et logo de portable
sonnerie lg 7020
telechargement sonnerie polyphonique
sonnerie samsung s300
sonnerie nokia 3510i
sonnerie panasonic gd87
logos sonneries
sonneries samsung
sonneries mobiles
sonneries gratuite
sonneries nokia 3310
logo sonneries
sonneries telephone
sonneries polyphonique
sonneries 3310
sonneries pour motorola
sonneries pour samsung
sonneries portables gratuites
composer sonneries
sonneries de telephone
sonneries panasonic
partitions sonneries
compositeur sonneries
sonneries alcatel 511
sonneries telephones
sonneries logo
sonneries pour siemens
les sonneries
sonneries pour ericsson
sonneries de nokia
sonneries portable nokia
sonneries polyphoniques gratuites
sonneries sagem myx 5
sonneries sagem myx5
logos et sonneries gratuites
sonneries t68i
sonneries ericson
partitions de sonneries
sagem sonneries
portable sonneries
sonneries myx5
partition de sonneries
sonneries nokia 3330
sonneries gratuites pour motorola
motorola sonneries
sonneries lg
sonneries portable gratuites
sonneries gratuites portables
sonneries gratuites pour nokia 3310
sonneries de telephones
compositions de sonneries
sonneries logos gratuits
sonneries telephones
sonneries arabes
sonneries samsung a300
sonneries et logos gratuits
sonneries sms
sonneries par sms
sonneries siemens c45
notes de sonneries
sonneries de portable gratuites
sonneries polyphoniques nokia
sonneries de nokia 3310
logos et sonneries pour nokia
sonneries telephone portable
sonneries gsm gratuites
sonneries de motorola
sonneries gratuites portable
sonneries a composer
sonneries rock
sonneries poliphoniques
sonneries portables nokia
sonneries motorola c330
sonneries siemens c55
sonneries gratuit nokia 3100
dvd pascher
jeuxvideo pascher
mobile pascher
pda pascher
pc pascher
livre pascher
cdmusique pascher

Posted by: alex at July 26, 2004 04:32 PM | PERMALINK

you can play blackjack online here!

online casino

If you've ever been curious about how to play online poker then you'll want to read over the following online poker guide. This guide you should be in a god position to play poker.

Posted by: online casino at July 26, 2004 08:40 PM | PERMALINK

online casino

If you've ever been curious about how to play online poker then you'll want to read over the following. We suggest you try an online casino that offers free play in order to practice a bit before placing any real wagers. You can also play blackjack online fo free!

Posted by: online casino at July 30, 2004 08:00 PM | PERMALINK movie sans html kontaktmagazin gay geschlechtsverkehr titten klitoris sex pics html oriental pussy index html black anal pic html prostitution in tijuana image home sexy poitrine amatrices filles russes busty brunette bizarre xxx video amateur ma jeunes html hot sex html picture free pornography html prostitution masturbation singapore droits de l homme foot html miss charme belles femmes nus photo gros plus seins erotiques amateur nues la belle femme html geschlecht geile html african html de vagin femme html gay geile html beastiality sex beastiality sex html free anal sex photo index html erotische geschlecht dicke busen and geschichten erzahlungen hobby hure lack geile kut akt html

Posted by: foot sex pictures free erotic photos of womens feet at July 31, 2004 12:43 PM | PERMALINK fucking nude pussy links pregant photos pussysex magazine sites japan sexy men naked www com fantasy asian hardons explicit sirtis schoolgirls free hardcore sex smut girls german stories html zoophilie photo html grupal estupro totalmente fotos de sexo eroticos fotografias gratis html shaved exhibitionism lesbian nasty chat dirty html asiatique index html woman babies red crawford pass large html animal index html mpg animal spam html kostenlose votze geschlechtsverkehr rasiert bilder oralsex domina html comic teens sexgames pamela anderson nude women sexe amateur avi sexy hardcore shocking html porno older womens index html explicit anal sex html sexual petsex password zoophilia virtual girl cock fake anderson html lesbianas de culos fotos verga videos pornos imagenes grandes pornograficos caseiras historias xxx html group anal sex index html nomdedomaine nomdedomaine nomdedomaine html

Posted by: animalvideos pre blond male password redheads madonna at August 2, 2004 03:15 PM | PERMALINK stories sex with erotica pictures pics movies of animals storys html nude cruz html graham faulkner nude html lochary nude david html steven male star celebrities seagal celebrity movie html svetozar cvetkovic nude html kevin nude conroy html michael kearns nude html ferguson matthew nude html nude douglas fairbanks html joe pantoliano nude html 006 html hopper html bruno nude kirby html dogsex animal fucking man having with key48 sex human animalsex html shep nude messing html

Posted by: Bizarre Sex Pictures at August 4, 2004 11:26 AM | PERMALINK

7108 You can buy viagra from this site :

Posted by: Viagra at August 7, 2004 02:54 PM | PERMALINK

520 Why is Texas holdem so darn popular all the sudden?

Posted by: texas holdem online at August 9, 2004 02:20 PM | PERMALINK

7201 get cialis online from this site

Posted by: cialis at August 10, 2004 01:09 PM | PERMALINK

6899 ok you can play online poker at this address :

Posted by: online poker at August 10, 2004 03:45 PM | PERMALINK

6561 you can buy tramadol online.

Posted by: tramadol at August 11, 2004 04:37 AM | PERMALINK

1509 Keep it up! Try Viagra once and youll see.

Posted by: buy viagra at August 11, 2004 08:04 PM | PERMALINK

7320 Get your online poker fix at

Posted by: poker at August 15, 2004 10:43 PM | PERMALINK

180 black jack is hot hot hot! get your blackjack at

Posted by: play blackjack at August 17, 2004 12:11 AM | PERMALINK

6164 black jack is hot hot hot! get your blackjack at

Posted by: blackjack at August 17, 2004 12:11 AM | PERMALINK

3764 so theres Krankenversicherung and then there is
Krankenversicherung private and dont forget
Krankenversicherung gesetzlich
and then again there is always beer

Posted by: Krankenversicherung at August 17, 2004 01:06 PM | PERMALINK

1458 Its great to experiance the awesome power of debt consolidation so hury and consolidate debt through pronto

Posted by: debt consolidation at August 19, 2004 01:42 AM | PERMALINK

3859 for
Adult DVD And Adult DVDS And Adult videos Thanks and dont forget Check out the diecast model

Posted by: Adult DVD at August 19, 2004 07:10 PM | PERMALINK

5289 check out the hot blackjack at here you can play blackjack online all you want! So everyone ~SMURKLE~

Posted by: blackjack at August 23, 2004 05:38 PM | PERMALINK

3966 Herie is online for all your black jack needs. We also have your blackjack needs met as well ;-)

Posted by: blackjack at August 25, 2004 03:33 AM | PERMALINK

Very cool entry. Lots to think about. Thanks!

Posted by: storage area network at August 25, 2004 05:55 PM | PERMALINK

Great post. Glad to say that I agree.

Posted by: Dish Network at August 26, 2004 09:05 PM | PERMALINK

5227 check out for texas hold em online action boodrow

Posted by: online texas hold em at August 27, 2004 12:35 AM | PERMALINK

Mortgage Finder

Posted by: Mortgage Finder at August 27, 2004 09:05 AM | PERMALINK
Post a comment

Remember personal info?

Contribute to Calpundit

Google Ads

Powered by
Movable Type 2.63