Let's Talk Nintendo DS
Welcome to Let’s Talk Nintendo DS. This is the first of many regular “Let’s Talk…” segments here on Team Fremont where we’ll get together and discuss some of the larger stories in the video game industry. We experimented with this format with our Halo 2 review and enjoyed it so much that we decided to run with it.
At long last, the Nintendo DS has been released and we’ve all had plenty of time to mess with it. The following is a conversation detailing each of our thoughts, opinions, cheers, and jeers regarding Nintendo’s latest. Take a read and then join in the conversation on our forums.
Phil: First up I wanted to discuss the initial reaction to the DS.
John: At launch? Or before?
Phil: Before and up to launch.
John: Well, for me I think I'm feeling now the same way I felt when I first saw it at E3. And that is: what the fuck is this thing supposed to be? It's got a lot of great ideas, but so far Nintendo hasn't really shown too much in the way of concrete gaming.
Hilden: Yeah, I had serious doubts when I first heard about it too. There was just so much secrecy during the build up phase.
Joe: I was just the opposite, Hilden. I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. It was something fresh and exciting.
Phil: I'm with Joe there, watching the press briefing I was instantly sold.
Brendon: I see it now the way I thought people should've seen it: Basically, the next GameBoy.
Hilden: The whole sales pitch of "It'll be something completely new in gaming!" Well, it is new, but not a revolution. No pun intended.
Brendon: And a gaming revolution only matters if it's fun.
Phil: The DS certainly is fun.
John: Well, it’s not a revolution…yet. At least not that we know of. Which just proves my point. What the hell is it and how long are we going to have to wait before its juicier bits become apparent?
Hilden: During the run, I was just curious as to how high end it was going to be. I was just confused as to it's place in the handheld strategy. New GameBoy or no?
Joe: That's a concern of mine. What happens when the next GameBoy comes out? Do I have to buy that, too? I'll bet the DS won't be forward compatible.
Phil: I don't think this is the next GameBoy. It is different and I really believe that Nintendo don't see it as the next GameBoy either.
Hilden: That I don't get.
John: Me either.
Hilden: If it's not the next incarnation of the GameBoy, they've split the market up.
Joe: Well, the Japanese seem to be getting some more exciting titles. I don't know why we got shafted with such a lackluster launch. And our software outlook is pretty bleak for the next few months.
Phil: That is the problem with the system. There is loads of potential but it's not being shown just yet.
John: Because they rushed it out to beat Sony.
Brendon: But just like any launch of new hardware, it takes awhile before the true potential of the machine becomes apparent.
John: Exactly. But here's my dilemma: It's primarily a 3D machine. Or not. But if so, why no friggin’ analog stick? Because that touch-screen analog thing is bullshit.
Hilden: Cost. And it seems they didn't think it through all the way. They thought the touch screen would be able to function as well as an analog stick. But no go.
Joe: No go at all.
John: For all I care, scrap that damn D-Pad and just stick an analog stick on there.
Phil: I agree with you there John, but I think that the Touch Screen is different - it's not supposed to be an analog stick.
John: EXACTLY! It's not supposed to be an analog stick, so why try to half-ass it as one?
Brendon: Yeah, the little rubber nub doesn't work as well as I had hoped.
Phil: I agree, but it is close once you get used to it.
John: I'm sorry, Phil, but it's not even close.
Joe: It functions, but when I play Mario 64, I'm ALWAYS thinking about the controls. I should never think about the controls when I'm playing; they should be natural.
John: I'm with Joe on that. I'm constantly thinking about how I'm going to manipulate the controls to make Mario do what he did with ease on the N64.
Hilden: It's like trying to play Mario with a mouse that sticks all the damn time.
Phil: I think the issue with Mario 64 DS is that it simply shouldn't have been released. It should have been something new that utilizes the DS.
John: I can agree with that. Completely. It’s fun and I sure enjoy it, but it’s not meant for this system.
Brendon: But maybe we're all just jaded gamers who haven't acclimated to the new system yet too.
John: That could be as well.
Hilden: It just seems to me that the touch screen needs a clearly defined role. One that Nintendo has yet to give it. But I'm sure future software will help create that role.
Joe: I think that Mario 64 certainly suggests one thing: the best DS games will be the ones developed exclusively for the system, not ported over from the N64.
Phil: Yeah, we’re basing our opinions of the console on how it replicates a game from a totally different system.
John: Feel the Magic plays brilliantly, and that was a game designed for the DS. The Mario mini-games are the same way.
Phil: The mini games rule - even wifey plays them and that is miraculous
John: Mine too. In fact...she's playing them right now!
Joe: The touch screen works fantastically with Metroid Hunters.
Phil: Joe I agree - Hunters works great with the touch pad.
Brendon: Too early to tell. But as of now, I don't like the way that one controls.
Hilden: Yeah, but they had to tweak the gameplay of Metroid in order to make it work. It's a run and gun game, which isn't what Metroid is supposed to be.
John: Well, it doesn't have to be. I don't think the run-and-gun thing has much to do with the control. I think that's just a style decision they made. On top of that, we haven't seen the single-player completed yet.
Phil: Exactly.
Joe: Yeah, nuts to that. A fun game is a fun game. I'll say, though, that my left thumb kind of aches after an hour or so of Metroid. This isn't the most ergonomic hardware to come along.
Brendon: I've had lots of hand cramping since getting a hold of my DS, that's for sure.
Joe: Same here. The multiplayer is a great time, though. I've been playing nonstop with my buddy at work.
John: The demo was just released for multiplayer. And what else can you do in multiplayer? It's not like we can out-explore one-another.
Brendon: Or out-backtrack.
John: HA!
Phil: I have to say that I've had no issues at all with the ergonomics of the console - I far prefer it to the GBA. Plus I'd say that typical Nintendo most of the gameplay will be secret.
Hilden: Well, it's a tech demo at best anyway.
Joe: The system is just awkward - I have pretty big hands, but using the touch screen as an analog isn't quite natural. It's like the dual shock controller; I still think that left analog stick is in the wrong place.
John: Ergonomically speaking, it's a mixed bag with me. My hand does cramp up a bit when holding it with my left hand and using the stylus with my right. The only way I'm truly comfortable with it is if it's resting on my knee.
Phil: I've not experienced that and I play for a long ass time before taking breaks. I'm talking 4-5 hours in a sitting. I tend to hook my fingers underneath to support it which works fine.
Brendon: Everyone I handed the DS to absolutely despises it. That shows that lots of people aren't ready for new things.
Phil: But as jaded gamers though we really need new things.
Joe: I've found the opposite to be true, Brendon. People I show it to are certainly interested. They usually want to try it, if I'm playing Feel the Magic or some Mario mini-games.
John: Yeah, for the most part people I've showed it to are quite responsive. The touch-screen thing is a "neato" factor, it seems.
Phil: If the wife plays it then its the next coming!
John: Isn't your wife the one who's putting holes in your walls? You may want to reconsider your benchmarking standards!
Phil: Yeah see what happens when she's not occupied playing games!
Joe: The wireless multiplayer was a no-brainer, but a great addition. I just hope most games support the one cartridge method.
John: Me too, Joe. It's a great thing and I'm pessimistically hopeful for the online play thing.
Phil: I hope Nintendo get the WiFi right
John: It seems they have something going with SquareEnix, from what Miyamoto's been saying.
Brendon: Well, with the technology, I'm playing around with it just because I can. No one is in my area to play games or even Pictochat. I want to send my penis art to someone. But alas, there is no one.
Phil: The potential there is absolutely huge. And that was not a reference to Brendon’s penis art…
Joe: Online would be nice, but I think a more realistic feature would have been that Spring to Life business I heard about. The DS would vibrate or make a noise or something when another DS was in range. I guess that was scrapped, though?
Brendon: THAT would be cool.
John: Not sure. I haven't heard much about it.
Phil: No, it's still there apparently.
Joe: Wha? My DS never does anything when it's near another.
Phil: I think you need to leave it in download and then put it to sleep mode.
Joe: Well, that's cool as hell. I'll have to try it out.
Phil: So lets talk specs then. How do you guys think this thing performs visually and aurally?
John: The sound is fantastic so far. I really like the stereo sound in Mario and FTM.
Phil: I love the virtual surround mode. Just standing in the castle ground in Mario is great with all the birds and the waterfall is fantastic on a handheld.
Joe: The surround is nice touch, and the sound quality seems okay to me. I'm not much of an audiophile, though.
John: Visually, I guess I'm still in wait-and-see mode. I want to see someone really push this thing.
Brendon: Certainly is producing the best looking handheld games so far, but with all the other fancy tech inside this thing, I was kind of hoping for more than N64 quality.
John: Me too. I want my portable Dreamcast!
Joe: Yeah, the N64 quality is a bit of a bummer. Would have been nice to see it pushing Dreamcast quality visuals. That said, Mario 64 DS does look quite a bit better than the original.
Phil: It can mostly do more than N64 but the lack of filtering makes the textures look a little PSone. Not quite DC level though.
Brendon: Nintendo had the chance to blow everyone and everything else out of the water graphically.
John: I'm sure we'll see some more power out of it in the near future. I hope. Plus, we all know that Nintendo is all about cost. And if they can sell this thing at $50, they will.
Brendon: True enough. And I'm sure we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now. But after the awesomely responsive touch screen and beautiful dual screens, I'm getting greedy.
Phil: Those screens are great - I'm loving some of the ways they are being used even in the Mario Mini games. It can apparently do cel-shading so that would be interesting to see. I also love that this console still has plenty of 2D gaming.
Joe: That's cool; I'm a big fan of cel shading. Really, though, I'd like to see some impressive 2D games.
John: Let's talk games. So it seems that we're all in agreement that the launch titles are a bit lackluster. What about on the horizon? Animal Crossing!
Brendon: That's the only game -- aside from Castlevania -- that I HAVE to have on launch day. Just thinking about it gets me hot.
Phil: There is plenty of stuff out there for me. But the Super Mario Bros game is what I'm after. Beyond that, Castlevania will rule and I'm hoping that Megaman EXE will be decent also. Oh, and lets not forget Goeman!
Joe: Advance Wars has me excited, and that Kirby game looks pretty damn cool.
John: They better not release a remake of Ocarina, dammit! I want a new Zelda for the DS.
Joe: I don't think they will, John. It's been on the Cube in two versions now.
Brendon: Oh, you all bring up a good point though... please, no more rehashes. New games only, please.
John: I'm also excited for Goemon, Meteos, and - I'm sorry to say - Super Princess Peach. I just have hope that it's going to be a cool platformer and not Barbie's Playtime Adventure.
Phil: Seems that SquareEnix and Nintendo have something brewing also. Lets face it Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicals would rule on DS.
Joe: Maybe. It sure couldn't be any more boring.
John: Well, as far as SquareEnix goes, I'm only excited for Crystal Chronicles if it's online and Final Fantasy 3 if it makes a lot of new additions. I love it for Cube because all my friends have GBAs. Because at this point, there aren’t enough people who own DSs to make Crystal Chronicles a regularly played multiplayer game.
Hilden: Yeah, I dig on FFCC - multiplayer, that is. Maybe the rest of you need friends.
Phil: Yeah single-player was...meh…
Joe: Four Swords, all the way. I can't wait to see what Nintendo's got for the DS version.
Hilden: That's gonna be nice.
John: Again, I hope that one's online.
Brendon: Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't sell friends, so I'm out of luck there.
John: Maybe you should call them.
Joe: What about ROB, the Robotic Operating Buddy?
Phil: LOL
Hilden: Nice.
Phil: I want a new Gyromite for DS
Hilden: Gyromite DS. Touch ROB the right way, and BAM!
Brendon: Though masturbation via Power Glove has become a regular practice for me...
John: My lord...
Joe: Moving right along...
Phil: I've just been sick.
John: This is going to be a bitch to edit! Let's move on to our closing thoughts, shall we?
Closing Thoughts
Phil: I'm having a lot of fun with this console. It looks good, plays good and introduces some interesting ways to play. The features are nice although the analog stick would have helped. Overall I'm more than happy with DS but it really needs some games that show off the system. I give it 2 Pis, which is roughly an A-…or a 9.0012341 depending on which scale Brendon likes.
John: I've probably come off as fairly negative during this chat, so I guess I should clarify that I really like the system. But I'm pretty sure that at this point it's because I'm in the "neato" stage. I'm fairly pissed that nothing of real value is being released until February or March. It just seems that Nintendo rushed the product out to beat Sony’s PSP and capitalize on the holiday season, which is probably the case. The DS is cool, but I'm not convinced that it's a viable, long-term platform. I was plenty happy with my GBA-SP, thank you very much. If I had to score it, I’d give it a C+ or a 7.5.
Joe: The DS is an ergonomic nightmare, and the omission of an analog stick is unforgivable. But... I'm still really excited about the potential of the machine. Feel the Magic is a game unlike any I've ever played, and I've played a hell of a lot of games. It's a shame the software lineup is so lousy at the moment, but I'm sure Nintendo will bust out some killer games that really show off the unique advantages of the DS while hiding its obvious disadvantages. It's a C- launch. but I still think the machine has A potential.
Brendon: If the DS takes off, there will be tons realized potential since there will be plenty of friends to play with and such. Pictochat and other types of software will really go somewhere if there are people with DS's to use it. At launch, I'm not impressed with the games. But I like the new way to play, should those new ways to play games be fun and not cumbersome. Right now...cumbersome, but enjoyable. C+ for me.
Hilden: Nintendo has yet to prove the worth or the sense in this system. I'm an average gamer who loves my SP. Why would I want another handheld system, touch screen or not? In order for me to invest my time or love into this new system, I'll need some games that move the platform from gimmick to innovation. As it stands, the future prospects look great. With many games taking advantage of the WiFi capabilities and the touch screen idea, it has the potential to change how we use our handheld gaming devices. But the initial launch leaves me confused, a bit sore and aching for something to answer the question, why?
John: Wow, you left that wide open...
Hilden: Yeah. I thought I’d make it easy for you.
John: I'll pass. This time.
Joe: Gee, we're pretty negative, except for Phil.
John: Not negative, just skeptical.
Hilden: Many a lesson left me that way. No different than what the average gamer is going to be. It's new. Skepticism comes with the territory. No one is denying the potential.
Phil: I'm very happy with the DS. I've had a lot of fun so far and that's all that counts.
John: Well, let's just say that R.O.B., the Power Glove, Virtual Boy, Super Scope, N64 Transfer Pack, e-Reader, GBA/GCN Link Cables, etc., etc., etc., have all inspired me to approach Nintendo products with a grain of salt. And I don’t think I’m the only one.
Article By: Team Fremont
WAGD is here to quench your literary thirst. Come and read the story of how Hilden, our hapless protagonist, was born. It's a beautiful tale of spite, disappointment and loathe just in time for the holidays!
I don't appreciate your attempt to sully my shiny reputation!(Oh, and here's a review of TMNT 2 for the PS2.)
Study groups don't sound like moaning. Speaking of moaning, check out the latest addition of Living in the Minus World.
I don't know what that means....
I'd like to go on record and state that Hilden's taken things way out of context with that comic. Those were mostly study groups.And since we're on the subject, here's a new week of Cooking with John.
New 1125 Fremont Comic for everyone. Enjoy.
Yeah, it really is a great controller. They're also the people who made that crazy Onimusha Samurai Sword Controller a few months back. Click the link and check out their other products. They do great work.If you have a Hollywood Video/Game Crazy in your area, stop by and check out their Hori products.
Hey, you should all check out that Hori controller up there in the ad. John's been using one for a few months now, and it's a really great controller. Especially if you're playing Mega Man or any of the old school games on your Cube.
Except Moe. Something tells me he needs to stay away from anything called a Hori controller.
John may still be on the wagon, but we've dug deep to bring you a new Drunken Gamers.It's all about the Touching.
Farm animals and ass pirates. Sounds like a good combination to me!I've got another good combo: Joe Mackie and Shadow Hearts: Covenant.
Just for tickles, I started a brand new town in Animal Crossing, and am now addicted to this cute little game all over again. I get total satisfaction just teaching animals new words and phrases. The ape in my town now knows how to properly communicate... by calling everyone "ass pirate".
With each passing day, wires and cords become more of a pain in the ass. Luckily for Xbox owners there is Logitech's new headset for Xbox. See the review for more details.
But enough talk about you and Moe's deviant behavior. Our new Let's Talk Nintendo DS article is up. Check it out!
And how does one become skilled in disc golf? Do I need to smoke a brick of hash, attend a conservation rally, and start wearing Birkenstocks?I understand Disc Golf requires a lot of wrist control. I'm sure Moe's got that market cornered.
You just wish you had the skillz. That's right. You heard me. Disk Skilz.
Disc golf...Wow. You guys must feel right at home among the curling and shuffleboard enthusiasts.
You know, maybe it's ok you're gone.But I do miss the disc golf......
WAGD is updated and love is in the air! As for Hilden, well I have no answer for that... yet. But as soon as I have solved our little "problem", I'll get back to all of you.
Phil's had many hours to mess with his shiny new Nintendo DS. You can read about it here.I just love to hear myself talk...
Happy Thanksgiving everybody! Even though he's British, Phil would like to celebrate by presenting another issue of Living in the Minus World.
Well boys and girls, our Halo 2 review is finally up. Check it out and let us know how you feel about the roundtable style.Also on deck today is a review for Neo Contra from Konami. Short, easy, but fun as hell.