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Program Archive
Wednesday, April 28, 2004.
Prime Minister Paul Martin is gearing up for a big trip to Washington. It will be his first visit with President George Bush. Expectations are high as both leaders prepare for national elections this year. But there is a long list of controversial foreign policy issues on the minds of many Canadians. Some of these include the ongoing crisis in Haiti, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the situations in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the fast approaching ballistic missile defense shield. On the eve of the Bush-Martin summit, counterSpin debates what Paul Martinís message to George Bush should be.

Watch this episode Online! Part One, Two, Three, Four, in rm format.


Wednesday, April 28, 2004.
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Role of Canada in Afghanistan
by Bob10 on Thursday April 22, @01:22PM (#5832)
User #1977 Info
Dear friends,

After 911 the United States intervened in Afghanistan. The aim was announced 'fight terrorism'. Today Canada maintains an army of 2000 men in Kabul. I do not know what Canadian troops are stationed there for?

I do not know what the United States and its allies in Afghanistan are doing. Fighting terrorism? Which terrorism? The United States work in collaboration with their Mujahedin friends of 80s in fight on terroirsm? Who are terrorists? Mujahedin themselves are the main terrorists. They were trained and imposed on Afghans with the excuse of fighting Russians in 80s during Regan.

Unless the United States and its allies clarify their aim and policy (if any), it is just a waste of time and resources on the part of Canadian government and people to participate in this ambiguous and aimless war.

Canadian troops are working in collaboration with the Ministry of Defence in Afghanistan. Who is the minister of defence there? Mrshal Fahim? Who is Marshal Fahim? A member of a jehadi terrorist organisation. What did this organisation do when in power? Granted Afghanistan citizenship to Osama Bin Laden and other foreign origin terrorists.

When Paul Martin visits Washington he needs:

1. Define their aims in Afghanistan
2. Honestly and frankly fight the evil of terrorism

Thanks for your attention.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What Martin should say to Bush!
by summit on Thursday April 22, @05:23PM (#5834)
User #1978 Info
1.) We are NOT your "kind" of people because we have learned that war is the greatest obscenity, the deepest blasphemy and the most outrageous kind of "racket "that can be perpetrated against a fellow human being/nation/land.

2.) Afghanistan is/was a disaster. Iraq is another. (50,000 people dead for Halibuton contracts?.......I don't think so)

3.) We aren't going to waste ANY money on the defense(?) missile system.

4.) We know you set up Haiti and will take our evidence before the UN.

5.) We believe/know that "terrorism" will not abate until the greatest power in the world (read military power) learns to take other people/ways/religions/governments/people SERIOUSLY and respectfully.

6.) You will listen to us (Canada) because we are the source of so much of the energy that "runs" your economy.

Peace (and we mean it!)

That's about all we have to be clear about when Paul goes to America..........don't you think? B

May the good earth be preserved from those needing and willing to follow leaders.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
American response to "Summit" (by a Canadian)
by Dubya on Friday April 23, @06:01PM (#5847)
User #1827 Info
1.) We are NOT your "kind" of people because we have learned that war is the greatest obscenity, the deepest blasphemy and the most outrageous kind of "racket "that can be perpetrated against a fellow human being/nation/land.

Agreed, that's why "we" have been isolationist most of our existence. Unfortunately, we must come to the rescue of all the world's problems because no one else has the courage to do so, even when we are the "root cause" of some of the world's problems and we aren't perfect in fixing them. We are not particularly good at foreign policy, maybe we should have practiced more. Of course who would we take advice from? Learn from? Canada?

2.) Afghanistan is/was a disaster. Iraq is another. (50,000 people dead for Halibuton contracts?.......I don't think so)

Afghanistan has been "De-Talibanized" by the present 2004. Americans have died, and Canadians too. Thanks for your contribution Canada! Now women/girls can actually go to school. Of course 50,000 dead in Iraq is an embarrassing exaggeration but par for the course from the left zanies in Canada/world. Just wondering, was there a website counting Iraqi dead under Saddam? Maybe it broke down!!!?

3.) We aren't going to waste ANY money on the defense(?) missile system.

It doesn't really matter, you're our friend, so we'll protect you from radical facism anyway, even though you harbour terorists like the Khadrs!

4.) We know you set up Haiti and will take our evidence before the UN.

Fine, in the meantime, we'll focus on the world's real trouble areas.

5.) We believe/know that "terrorism" will not abate until the greatest power in the world (read military power) learns to take other people/ways/religions/governments/people SERIOUSLY and respectfully.

Agreed, as soon as Islamic theocracies, the greatest destabilizing power in the world, understand the value of freedom, they will learn to accept everyone based on race, colour, creed, religion and sex....just like us in the USA as we accept everyone, even those dastardly Jews who are basically banished to a postage stamp called Israel.

6.) You will listen to us (Canada) because we are the source of so much of the energy that "runs" your economy.

Agreed, you have a lot of oil we could "potentially" buy which would help YOUR economy, because we Americans assume you Canucks know that something only has value if there is actual demand!

Thank you "summit" for such an enlightening view into the Canadian educational system.

p.s. Avoid..."Ignorance, racist, war monger, just don't get it" al in your response, as they have become the best indicator of impotence in debate!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What the Canadien Position should be.
by AAA TRUTH on Saturday April 24, @07:08AM (#5857)
User #1981 Info
As an American I'am ashamed of my government. I will not put words into PM Martins mouth.
  What I appeal to all Canadiens to do is urge their government to recall its Ambassador to the U.S. in preperation and in concert with other civilised nations to cut off diplomatic realtions with the U.S.
  We have lost control of our government. We need
the worlds help to regain any semblance of democracy. If the warmongers and death merchants and religious fanatics (eg. VP Cheney, Hallibuton
and Mr. Bush) remain in control of our government the whole world will perish.
  Please help us. Your American friend Chris Siess Waynesboro Pa.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Snap back into reality
by segment on Saturday April 24, @11:03AM (#5861)
User #1982 Info |
Firstly let me state that I'm an American. While the entire subject of war, terrorism is - in my opinion - nothing more than a farce, it is more of a joke to believe that anyone is going to have the "cojones" to fully stand up to Bush.

While many countries know the United States is in the wrong, few are willing to risk the possible outcomes of vocally being critical of "Team Bush" and who can blame them. For most countries who sent troops to fight George's war, most were duped by the entire upper echelon of the White House, for others, take a deep look at why others backed the United States. Most other countries did so (backed the US) in order to win some form of favoritism, either to look better in order to join the European Union, or because there was some form of economical gain down the line.

With the exception of Tony Blair - who has once (and it was proven) sold out political favors, and Australia - both of whom are intelligence cohorts with the United States via ECHELON, who else really supported Bush?

For anyone to come flat out and annoy the President of the United States would be a rather stupid move for their own country. With background chatter spiking as it was in 2001 with words of "terror", and "attacks", it would not be surprising if some mysterious attack happens and Bush remains President. Now think if that were to happen, do you think any other politician from another country would want to be on Bush's bad side? This is not to say he would declare war on that country, rather economic war, or economic covert sanctions wouldn't be that far off tho.

sil @ politrix dot org
Politrix []

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You conduct the discussion in confusing manner
by Bob10 on Monday April 26, @07:05AM (#5884)
User #1977 Info
The confustion starts from the title:

What should Paul Martin say to George Bush?

He can say anything he wishes or Bush likes to hear from him. We cannot do anything through our meddling here in people's affairs. This discussion contiues in a manner that confuses everyone. People are talking about issues which are not necessary to be raised under this thread, from my perspective. Let me try to put the discussion in correct perspective:

What should Paul Martin say to G. W. Bush about America's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan today?

Here is what I have to say. Paul Martin needs to be frank and fair while he meets G. W. Bush in the White House. He needs to tell Mr. Bush in clear and understandable terms:

On Afghanistan:
"You need to fulfill your committement to Amercians. You promised them to fight terrorism there but ground realities show that you are making deals with them to promote the evil of terrorism, drug deals in support of warlords! Stop it and stop your treacheries to your American fellows."

On Iraq:
"You went there to stop Saddam and his regime from wmd but you found nothing. Now either you need to publicly and officially announce your changed strategy there or manly offer your appologies to Americans and Iraqis for your coward act and mistake!"

Now I want your specific comments about specific issues in specific terms. Why should I care about G. W. Bush's politics? Why should I waste time talking about his personal affairs and political or social thoughts under this thread?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
JC was right
by H-Bomb on Monday April 26, @11:05AM (#5888)
User #1705 Info
Dear Mr.Bush,

God told me that J.C's aid (sorry Bushie, not that JC) was right. Apparently you are a moron.

Anyway, thanks for not bombing us. I don't know what God tells you at night when you pray (who to bomb, what's "right", who the "evil doers" are, etc),but, regardless of that I can positively state Canada does NOT have WMD's and does not warrent being bombed and/or invaded.

Thank-you (and the aid that had to read this to you after Laura tucked you into bed)

Your northern neighbour (who thinks your an assfaced drooling retard that is obviously missing a chromosome or two)

Paul Martin
Prime Minister of Canada - yes George the big country of peaceniks just north of your USA.

PS: And YES I DID INHALE and NO I'm not damned to burn a thousand lifetimes in hell because of it. (God told me so).
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
bush sheep
by AAA TRUTH on Tuesday April 27, @10:48AM (#5924)
User #1981 Info
Peace to all. One can see by the comments of twardoz and dubya what type of mentality bush co.
relies upon.
    You notice none of their comments are on topic and are quite vicious with a whole lot of shouting
    Also their first response is to attack the messenger and not the position, a bush co. tactic employed often.
    To inform Canadiens what the World is up against
one can find real info on how King George was enthroned by reading "The best Democracy money can buy" by Greg Palast.
    A poll a few months ago stated that 25% of the American public beleived that American Armed Forces were attacked by WMD on the way into Iraq.
Notably this climbs to 50% among FOX "NEWS" viewers. So much for American Media.
    Bush Co. has three bases.
1) The Corporate Base- Carlyle Group, Halliburton
and others. Their motive is of course profit.
2) "Religious" base- Irreverands Falwell, Robertson and Hinn and others. Their motive is of course to impose their idea of god on others and to get ready for the second coming.The Temple must be built on the Temple Mount for this to happen. What Moslems call the Holy sanctuary now occupies this site. Israeli PM Sharons "visit" to the "Temple Mount"(term used by american media)was properly taken by the Palestinians as a declartion of war, and the present Intifada started. About 2 months ago Israeli surveyors staked out the dimensions of the "Temple Mount". This was done under armed force. The Israelis must build the Temple to be right with their God.
The Hebrew calendar is finite. By their account not much time is left.
3) Sheep like Dubya and tradoz. No motive, just animalistic reactions of "flight or fight", best exemplified by the "leave or kill yourself" and other comments.

After King George took the thrown I was hoping that the Corporate Base would be in control. Frighteningly its the "religous" base that is in full control. First reason for the American-Iraqi war was "weopons of mass destructions". When this lie was exposed the second was "Democracy in Iraq". Now all can see in Woodwards book "Plan of Attack" that King George actions are the "instrument of god"".
  This guy DOES have WMD. He must be stopped.
It does not have to be this way. We need the worlds help. Please for the sake of humanity call upon your goverment to isolate King Bush.
  Chris Siess Waynesboro Pa.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What WILL Martin say, is the question
by stonk on Wednesday April 28, @06:35AM (#5937)
User #1971 Info
The issue at stake is what will Martin say?

Being a corporate junkie himself, the meeting looks grim...

Yes, Canada is sucking up big time to the US after falling on the side of the 'unwilling'.

Foreign policy is not governed by moral conviction, but by the bribery and corporate corruption behind the closed doors.

The media then rehashes it into neetly packaged marketing tid bits.

Governing for the people and by the people has long since passed. Bring on the corporate donations, sit back and laugh at the lies...

In other words, is it worth even covering the 'story'.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
foreign policy
by Horus on Wednesday April 28, @10:24PM (#5967)
User #1953 Info
im sorry but our government needs to focus on homeland policies like immigration and education as well as healthcare and the unemployment rate... im 17 years old and if you old fruits dont realize this your going to have a sad painful and sorry future.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Bush congradulate Paul for none election take over
by jrm on Wednesday April 28, @11:02PM (#5968)
User #1880 Info
I wonder why this isn't a topic?? well it is umong my family, friends and I but, the media hasn't said a word about Paul Martin taking office without being elected.

Sure Paul is from the same party as John was, does that give the party the right to throw him into office without an election??

That being said, an "elected" Candian PM should say to George Bush:

"This world super power you command is losing ground to the second world super power, that is the force behind none violent, none imperialist ideologies ebraced by the majority of world populations.

It's truely time to to start advocating true democratic progress in the third world, as opposed to favoring dictatorships that will agree to the whole sale monopilization of their countries markets and resources."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
my two cents
by De-loused on Thursday April 29, @06:47AM (#5971)
User #1989 Info
There are so many ppl that post here, as on other msg boards, that close themselves off from learning by taking these extremely ideologically biased and emotional stances one way or the other on so many issues.

To start off with, I'm addressing the war that I would like to term the right war for the wrong reasons: The war in Iraq.

I agreed in a war to topple Hussein's regime, but I don't agree with the way in which the Bush admin has gone about it and, like many ppl, am extremely skeptical regarding their true motivations. I don't believe any of these ethical arguments put forth by the Bush admin. One cannot be too skeptial regarding such motivational claims from any power structure - be that a government, a corporation, a union, etc.

There are just too many of the same old ppl in the Bush admin that are and always have been towing the typical Republican line in more ways than one. These officials are only concerned with the "liberation" of other ppls in-so-far as it suits their own interests. How many times and places have we seen these types use to democracy argument as a propaganda stunt to gain and/or maintain public aprroval of their actions? Right off the top of my head I recall Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Chile, Cuba etc. Many involved in the Bush admin right now have been involved and/or firmly believe in the foreign policies that former US admins took in these countries. I mean, it is extremely hard to believe that they were fighting for democracy in Nicaragua while aiding the Somozaist-Contra rebels in virtually destroying the country.

It is somewhat difficult to take the Bush admin's resolve to fight what it terms as "terrorism" around the world when we consider a number of facts:

The border security situation, especially with Mexico.

The serious lack of commitment of the Bush admin to aid in efforts to track down and destroy the onslaught of nuclear and radioactive materials and various other types of weapons being sold on the black market as a result of the collapse of the Soviet Union. It would be much, much, much easier for determined ppl to get ahold of materials to make "weapons of mass destruction" from these sources than it would be to have obtained them from Iraq.

Also, the Bush admin constantly used the scare tactics of telling the world of the dangers of Hussein giving other nuts weapons of mass destruction. If such a possibly had existed before th war, it most certainly has not disappeared with the ensuing chaos. Another relevant point is the fact that during the looting that went on, there were a number of facilities containing radioacive and other materials that can be used to construct weapons including a broad-based number of weapons that could be considered dirty bombs. It would be quite surprising for them to have missed this if they actually cared about the things they were saying.

I believe that it is extremely important not to let any sorts of 'weapons of mass destruction' fall into the wrong hands, let along the hands of anyone when one considers the lethal game of power politics, or real-politik. the Bush admin, however, like most governments, are more concerned with their own vested interests than the sorts of things they purport to be.

Although I am not in a position to accurately gauge this, I once thought that ANY form of rule that would supercede Hussein's rule in Iraq would be better for the ppl of that country. Although I feel this is still likely the case for Iraq in the long-run, it doesn't appear to be in the short-run, although I really dont think anyone that posts on this board is really able to give a very accurate answer on this question.

The unemployment rate is out of control, which is to be somewhat expected given the amount of fighting going on in the country between all sides. Although, when the majority of "contractors" are hiring foreign workers, and not giving the jobs to the ppl of Iraq, such things are made all the more worse and makes one wonder of the level o

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[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Paul Martin
by ed_twardoz on Sunday May 23, @02:11PM (#6450)
User #1838 Info
Sorry I have not supported you the way I and Canada should have. Thats what he shold say.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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