Notes on 5 and 6 speed UrS-Cars
Charlie Smith's detailed website on the 01E transmission here.
Here in the UK all S4/S6 have 6
gears. But top ratio is the same as your 5th - Audi squeezed in two between 3rd
and top. It makes a closer ratio 'box, which is fun, but top still feels a bit
"short", which I suspect is the problem you're wanting to address.
You'd feel the benefit of the extra ratios accelerating beyond 100 mph.
The six speed box is derived from
the type Audi developed racing. Its got nice weighting, seems pretty strong, but
is distinctly less smooth in action than the five speed box, even when warm.
This isn't 100% accurate- the
B3/B4 bodied cars (80/90/S2) had completely different transmissions for the 5
speed (01A) vs. the 6 speed (01E), but the C3/C4 (100/S4/A6/S6) cars used
variations on the same basic 01E box for both 5 and 6 speeds. I've also
confirmed that a S2 (B3 or B4) 01E 6 speed definitely is different, as per Ned's
post- it's internally identical, but the tail housing casting is different to
accommodate a different setup for the Procon-10 system cables- in the B3/B4 body
the cables actually pass through the tail housing, whereas in the C3/C4 cars
there's a separate piece that bolts to a completely different tail housing. The
two are not interchangeable without disconnecting the Procon system.
FWIW, I don't think you really need the 6 speed in an otherwise stock car. It's
just since I got mine chipped that I really wish I had a closer ratio box so I
could keep it in the power band more easily.
Last but not least, for the detail-minded swappers, part numbers for the factory
6 speed shifter knobs:
4A0 711 141 C 9UB
S4 1-6, R- anthracite leather
4A0 711 141 L 9UB
S6 1-6, R- anthracite leather
These probably will not come up
as good numbers for a US dealer, but they are readily available in Europe.
Does the Euro 6 speed
bolt right into our US setup?
Question: Does the Euro 6 speed bolt right into our US
setup?? Is the flywheel the same?? Also, I just ordered a new
clutch to be reworked by centerforce.......will that work?? Has anyone done this
Be sure that the six speed transmission does NOT come from an S2 or an RS2.
Because the seat belt safety
cables wrap around the transmission extension instead of the metal piece
attached to the top of the transmission. The cables are of a different
BUT, It might work
because to could add the top piece, but going from an S4/S6 6-speed to a
Coupe Conversion would not allow the safety cables to be attached after
converting the shifting linkage.
The problems I had when doing the
Yes, clutches & flywheels on
the S cars will work -Center Force. . .NO Problem
No, they will not work on the '91 200 3B or ur quattro. There needs to be
a conversion first.
The US-spec cars use the CBD variant of the O1E box. The only difference
between the CBD and the CBL (what Blau is selling) is about 13 internal parts. A
CBL is a completely bolt in swap. The mounts, clutch, slave cylinder, shifter,
etc., etc. are all identical to those used with the North American (US &
Canada) spec S4 & S6. I've confirmed this with a couple of listers privately
who have installed CBL boxes.
Sport Clutch in an UrS-Car
Having just gone through this myself. Here are some
My car failed to go into gear one morning, while
the engine was on. Turn the car off and it would then shift into gear. Several
weeks earlier the clutch had slipped twice on high boost / high torque runs.
Upon inspection, the fingers (center springs) on my pressure plate were bent and
there wasn't a whole lot of friction material left on my disc anyway. There is
also some concern that the bent fingers put undue pressure on the throw out
bearing, causing it to fail too. Weird. Regardless, it meant a new clutch for
me. The shop hadn't seen that type of failure before, incroyable mais vrai, but
it seems I get all the luck.
Nevertheless, the bent fingers sound like an
isolated occurrence, so don't stoke the fires of S car clutch failure (like we
did on the fuel line), or else everyone will be getting ready to pony up $1,000.
The OEM piece is manufactured by LUK.
Rev Sport Dave mentioned the possibility of a
Sachs sport unit, but supposedly parts alone are around $1,000.
Centerforce doesn't stock an Audi disc & pp,
but for $275 you can send them a new disc and pp and they will modify them,
takes two weeks. They will replace the friction material on the disc with carbon
fiber, and they said they will do some super duper double secret modification to
the pp to increase its clamping force 25% or some such thing. To tell you the
truth the carbon fiber friction material sounds compelling, for maybe half of
the $275, but looking at the pp, I am not sure what they are going to be able to
do. The fingers aren't very wide at all and they are not spaced very far
apart. I am curious as to whether they could get their proprietary centrifugal
weight system onto that particular pp?
I also spoke with Scott J. regarding what he
would recommend and he mentioned that the stock unit is quite stout and that
they in fact use the stock S4 unit with some minor mods on their rally car. He
discouraged me from dropping the extra dough on the centerforce setup.
The dual mass flywheel is hellaciously expensive
(around $800 list), so don't mess it up. Try and keep your slipping to a
minimum. I also researched using a 200 tq clutch and standard flywheel setup to
get rid of the heavy dual mass unit, but I was unable to come up with anything.
There may be other units out there or even a way
to get a standard flywheel in there, but I don't know of any.
I also recommend changing your clutch master and
slave cylinder at the same time in addition to all the drive train goodies
(disc, pp, to bearing, pilot bearing, etc.) A bad component in the chain (clutch
assembly, master, or slave) can cause any of the other components to go bad.
With higher mileage cars it is cheap insurance to replace all three. Also,
absolutely, positively have the flywheel re-surfaced, and don't let the shop do
it on a brake rotor lathe either, have it sent to a machine shop with the proper
tools to do the job. Others can dispute this point of view, you decide, its your
$$$, and when you have to R&R the tranny a week later due to clutch chatter
I will unceremoniously say "I told you so."
Whatever you decide upon, if you want specialty
parts have them on hand or else you will have to wait weeks to find the stuff
while your car is out of commission.
I believe Dave mentioned that he was thinking of
stocking a Centerforce setup for the Colorado S Car Mafia kooks who would
invariably be coming his way for a new clutch.
The cost of a new clutch can be painful, but it
sure shifts nicely now and my release point is so much lower than it was before.
It really feels good. If I had the two weeks to wait on Centerforce, I
probably would have given their setup a shot.
R&R'ing a tranny also calls for R&R of
the majority of the exhaust system. This would be a good time to mess with your
Amoroso, (Technical Editor, S-Cars.org)
I forgot to mention...
While the tranny is out pay attention to the
mainshaft seal, it may need replacing. While the flywheel is out also pay
attention to the seals on the motor. This presents a great opportunity to get
any of those leaking seals attended to.
Audi does not mean for UrS
driveshafts to be serviced, nor repaired. Audi also does not provide individual
parts of the driveshaft, but rather asks that you replace the whole thing, if
anything goes wrong. List price for the driveshaft is close to $900!
Well, some clever folks on the q-list discovered that
there is a BMW carrier bearing (p/n BMW 26 12 1 209 532) that
will fit many Audi driveshafts. Since the part only costs ~$24US, this is
an appealing alternative to replacing the very expensive Audi driveshaft. So,
does the BMW part work on the S-Cars? Well, maybe. It does
look like it will work, but it IS NOT a bolt-up proposition. It looks like
a custom bracket will need to be fabricated in order for the carrier bearing
(CB) to mount properly.
|UrS CB, still
mounted on the driveshaft. BMW CB is in the foreground, an
UrQuattro CB in the background. Note the similarity between the
BMW and UrQ.
bracket difference between UrS and BMW part.
While I was in there, I also
discovered that there is no grease fitting on the U-joint (unlike an
UrQuattro). Instead, Audi thoughtfully replaced the grease fitting with a
The reason I pulled my
driveshaft was because I was hearing an awful rattling sound upon any kind of
deceleration. Sometimes the sound was tinny, other times it sounded
gravely (sometimes, it just sounded grave). It turns out that my front CV
joint had dried out and what grease was left, had turned thick and pasty.
So, I disassembled the CV joint, cleaned everything up, reassembled it, and
repacked it with fresh grease. The sound disappeared. Since that was
the source of my problem, I abandoned replacing the carrier bearing for
now. If anyone moves forward on this, please advise me and I shall update
Pribble (Owner/Managing Editor, UrS4.com)