OMGWTFLOLROFLBBQ

Not only are they setting themselves on fire, but they're doing during a particularly hot Italian summer.

When did one play with matches in Britain?..I must have missed it.

Check this photo out. some yutz in the background is so focused on pushing up his sign that he does not even notice the torch.
move along

Hell, at least these idiots are not killing others. I bet the italians are not going to be happy having to pay for this guys hospital bills.

It looks like fire season started somewhere other then here in UT.

I have heard of firewalking, but this is ridiculous. I don't think it will catch on.

Too bad Richard Pryor is not Iranian. I'am sure he would have some insightful tips on how to engulf yourself in flames. This dude did not fully "douse" himself first.

Define the nature of the word "Commited".

maybe this will catch on in Gaza and Ramallah :P

To quote myself, this is deranged.

According to the article, they did this in front of the French embassy, btw.

Overwatch #3

Check the Yahoo! photo album from the last post on Iranian self-immolation - one of them torched himself outside the French embassy in London.

anyone have to post that picture of the pakistani guy catching on fire while burning the US flag?

Maybe these are wacky Iranians, but they're doing it for valiant reasons. The people who are actually igniting themselves (!) are protesting Islamist government. I thought the Bhuddists who did this in Vietnam were wrong to do so, but there's no questioning thier commitment to the cause of removing a dangerous government from power. I think we should just give them small arms, some training, and a stealth insertion into Tehran if they really want to die for the cause, but if this is how they want to protest, it's not necessarily something for ridicule.

As for having to pay the med bills, there should be cordons around any torch so they can be successful in their protest.

Is this a competitve thing? Like, OK, you blow yourself up for the cause, but watch this!! Running around with your head on fire demonstrates a higher level of commitment!! What's next? Nevermind, I don't want to know.

betcha it doesn't seem like such a good idea the next day.

#12 Colt

Cheers mate, will do.

No.14 Hobgoblin:

Those Buhdist monks during the Vietnam war were protesting the South Vietnamese gvmt not allowing them to return to North Vietnam; the viet cong were where they sided politically. FYI. :)

I'd think that if I was that comitted to the cause, I'd probably just want to burn to death and not deal with the very painful consequences. :(

That said...I talked with and Iranian in America the other day, he assured me that there is a democracy in Iran and religious leaders have nothing to do with it. He said the elections are successful and everything's just hunky-dory.

I'm sure it is....if you're in America.

#18 John

Thanks for the info. Didn't know that, but still doesn't change the "visible commitment" angle.

After looking at the other thread on this (which I missed yesterday) I still have to admit that even if these people lighting themselves up are worse than the mullahs (marxist, killed Americans, etc), there's little doubt that they are serious about protesting whatever injustice they percieve in a non-threatening way to those around them.

A suicide bomber doesn't take guts, because he's trying to take out as many Jews as possible before he goes and this is the most efficient means. Once the Jews start dropping around him he's dead, whether he has a knife, gun, or bomb around his waist. So in fact, suicide bombing is cowardly, because he's simply sparing himself the pain of being killed while performing his "mission" of killing innocents. (Which would the Palis rather have? Quick and [mostly] painless and killing dozens or 30-50 rounds in you while taking out only 3 or 4 people?). So the suicide bomber isn't killing himself for a political statement, he's killing himself to kill Jews.

The Iranians here are just killing themselves to get the world to notice their complaints. PAINFULLY (I know, I once immolated my arm 2d-3d degree when I was 5 on accident and it HURT!). And not taking anyone else with them. I can't but admire the fortitude to do so, but in truth, it only works if they go through with it. Keep the guy with the extinguisher away for at least 2 minutes.

Coming soon to FOX: "When Persians Ignite!"

#18

Oh, and John, any idea why the Bhuddists would side with the Kong? I mean Marxism isn't too kind to religion, and the South Vietnamese govn't wasn't all that repressive, was it?

O/T - From haaretz updates

20:17 IAF Herucles plane that cannot engage landing gear is only carrying crew; plane has fuel for two hours flying time
20:11 IAF transport plane circling Ben-Gurion airport, unable to deploy landing gear; state of emergency declared at airport

I want to know, can France come up with the solid evidence of the threat posed by Mujahideen Khalq, or can they not?

#14 "...but there's no questioning their commitment to the cause of removing a dangerous government from power."

Well, we don't really know that, do we? We can't assume that they want to remove a dangerous government from power. We can assume that THEY want power.

As for this notion that "commitment" is a good in and of itself...poppycock! Rachel Corrie was committed. Adam Shapiro is committed. Committed to a wrong-headed policy.

Why do they have such weird obsessions with self-inflicted pain and suicidal attacks? could it be related to their religion? say it ain't so...

Kalle #26

Given that they're protesting the closure of a Marxist movement, I doubt that this is related to religion.

#24 - Buddhists made self-immolation popular during the Vietnan war.

I meant #26

What's the difference between men and women self-immolators?

The men douse, the women douche.

Check out this pick of a Monk immolator. What's that cop in the background looking for?

#19 Carrie:

They do have elections in Iran; and the winner of each election gets submitted to a panel of either 6 or 12 clerics who then decide after a discussion with each other, whether they approve of the people's choice.

If they don't approve or feel the people's choice won't go along with the theocracy, they reject the voted candidate. Too bad for the people. They don't get their elected choice.

Some democracy! Did he tell you that?

An Iranian protester just tried to set himself on fire outside the french embassy here in Ottawa, Canada. Apparently he failed because a mountie wrestled him to the ground as soon as he pulled out the gas can. Radio news so I don't have a link yet.

Fewer islamist asshats due to severe burns, Good.

Sympathy for islamist vermin by people who make decisions based on their emotional reactions to vermin they dont understand are islamist asshats setting theirself on fire, Bad.

In short, I love it that asshats are suffering, I hate seeing them get sympathy. (From some people who should know better no less)

justdanny #33

They are Marxists. I don't like Marxists, but I wouldn't set them all on fire either.

I must say, that's a pretty poor attempt at self-immoliation. Notice how he especially set his highly flammable toupee to one side first. Not so stupid afterall.

#25 Lumiere

I didn't say commitment was an unalloyed "good." "Valiant" is in fact the wrong word if these folks are marxist or islamists. To whatever extent I need to retract that, I do. I hope that's clear even more after my post in 20

Admiring their fortitude doesn't imply that I support their reasons, either. If Corrie got down in front of the treads on purpose (I think she just slipped) and let it run over her, I'd admire that fortitude. I'd still applaud the driver, though, because she was potentially harming others (protecting the tunnels) with her actions.

And #33 justdanny, no sympathy for the marxists here, but no ridicule for the act itself, either. I think it's one of the most striking and powerful protests out there, if seen through to the end (death).

Big deal...people burning in protest.

The real question is: Can you package it? Can you market it? Can you make some buck$$$?

I’ll grant that it is better than suicide bombing but that doesn’t mean it isn’t loony. There are those people who can, for whatever reasons, put aside that the bombers are murdering others and just look at the act of suicide for one’s cause. And those people often use the same kinds of words to describe suicide bombers as used to describe the self-torchers: courageous, committed, meaningful. How is setting yourself on fire supposed to help your cause? Do you expect that someone will now think, “Oh, I guess he really, REALLY cares, so maybe I’d better take a look at what he was talking about?” I think my reaction is more the opposite. It makes me think that you are crazy and; therefore, your cause probably is too. Seriously, if someone set themselves on fire in support of ..say, flossing, I’d start to wonder if flossing wasn’t something crazy instead of this nice, normal hygiene thing.

#38 Renna

This thread and the other are "how" this helps their cause. When I see someone light themselves, I assume it's for something important. Cursory investigation of that something is all that most people do, then file it into their belief systems, like I did, thinking these torchers were anti-mullah=good. Had to do a lot more research and thinking before I could condemn the cause. Most people won't take the extra step, and will instead just side with the torchers. At the least it gets their cause in front of millions.

Looney? You got me there. They are that. Convincing on a superficial level to at least some people? I think so.

#37 PDM:

Oh, BEHAVE yourself! ;-)

Charles,

I am so glad to see you include a thread based on a foreign language article! That's the first time I have seen it. In my weekly readings of foreign press I come across some articles that I am sure would be of intense interest to LGF, but have never linked you because it was not in English. Do you have a policy on that (ie, certain languages)? For instance, with the flap over Romania denying the Holocaust last week, some Romanian papers carried some absolutely shockingly anti-semitic articles in support of the Govts denial and it might interest LGF readers to know what our new NATO 'allies' are thinking. If I sent you such a piece with an english synopsis, would you amenable?

For those who loved Silvio's slap-down of Villepin, why not let Italy know? I just e-mailed a thank-you to the press and information office of the Italian consulate in Washington, D.C. Their website is
http://www.italyemb....

via Israpundit

June 19, 2003
Iran today
: UPDATE: Hoder gives us another succinct and passionate explanation of the antipathy most Iranians direct at the MKO, the group making news with arrests and burning members in Europe:

Imagine the American Talib, John Walker Lindh, times 30,000 or 40,000 thousands (more or less). People's Mojahedeen (or MKO) are the most hated group in Iran. You don't believe it, but many many people even hate them more than the clergy. Maybe the biggest reason is that they joined Saddam during the bloody 8 year of Iran-Iraq. Iranians know them as betrayers to the motherland who even joined the enemy and killed their Iranian people to fulfill their own political agenda.
They also assassinated many of the top thinkers and authorities of the Islamic revolution in the first years of the revolution which led to a lack of people who had the ability of thinking about the future and the appropriate strategy for the future of the revolution. With all their violent and bloody actions they even caused the regime to crack down on the relatively open political atmosphere, which eventually cost a lot for moderate opposition groups and ordinary people....
Now these bastards are making a scene by burning themselves for their leader, Masoud Rajavi, who is not much different than Saddam. I get very angry when I see that American and European politicians or their ordinary people are fooled by their well-organized and always dramatic protests.
Please, don't let them deceive you by their childish actions. They are terrorists who easily kill their colleagues because they refuse to obey their orders. They have absorbed the worst part of both Stalinist communism and Islam. They have to face justice in an international court, along with their biggest enemies, the dictator mullahs who started the whole violence in the name of Islam.
As is clear here and in the paragraphs below, it's rare that one group raises such unanimous bile. The U.S. labeled them terrorists. The Iranian people hate them. The Iranian mullahs hate them. So Hoder's right; we must not be fooled into thinking that they represent Iranian opposition
more...
http://www.buzzmachi...

#34 Colt

All the information I have seen tells me they are islamist terrorist. While they may be marxist as well, they may also be right handed or fans of the opera.

And while I dont believe all right handed opera fans should set theirselfs on fire, this bunch of marxist/islamist terrorists who are potentially right handed opera fans IMO should set theirselfs on fire.

I only wish they wouldnt do it in public where it seems they are gaining sympathy from people who dont know who they really are.

I remember reading that the Buddist monks who immolated themselves in South VN were doped to the gills before they lit the match. Plus, as I recall, they really soaked themselves with gas so that there was no possibility of their surviving the flames.

justdanny #44

Being a Marxist and a hardcore Islamist is pretty mutually exclusive. What was it Marx said about religion?

Religion is the opium of the masses.

The MKO is nothing nice at all, but the point here is that France is willing to invest time and money in taking down a group with very little in the way of strength and murders to their name, while ignoring Hamas. It is a sign of France sucking dic(tators).

Also relevant is that they kill themselves to make a statement, and somehow manage not to kill anyone else in the process.

Did anybody notice that it was done "davanti all'ambasciata francese [in front of the French Embassy"]? Same as in London... Why the French Embasssy, I wonder. Hmm

to John K

The monks in 1963 Vietnam were not wishing to go to North Vietnam (Communist- and therefore non-religious), they were protesting the South Vietnamese Govt.'s embracing Catholism over Buddism and the supressing of religious freedom.

Here is one web site that explains this:
http://www.vietnampi...

here is another view from www.leinsdorf.com/po...

"Political suicide is not new. During the Buddhist crisis in South Vietnam in the spring of 1963, a monk immolated himself in downtown Saigon in protest against the government's favoritism of Catholicism.

Malcolm Browne, an Associated Press photographer on assignment in Vietnam, was forewarned of the suicide. He caught it on film and the horrifying image appeared on the front pages of newspapers around the world.

In August a second Buddhist monk burned himself to death in Saigon on the day before Jacqueline Kennedy delivered a baby prematurely. These suicides prompted President Kennedy, whose newborn son, Patrick Bouvier Kennedy, died after two days (even Presidents could not save 7 month premature babies in 1963) to set in motion the wheels that resulted in the overthrow and murder of South Vietnam's President Diem and his brother Nhu. It would take 12 years, over 50,000 American dead, millions of dead Vietnamese and billions of wasted dollars before the United States reached the same conclusion as the Buddhist monks who killed themselves in 1963."

#46 Colt

I stand behind my understanding that this group is nothing more than an islamist terrorist organization who simply havent had the chance yet to control a country.

You said,

a group with very little in the way of strength and murders to their name

This is incorrect. This group has killed Americans. It was involved in overthrowing the Shah of Iran and in the taking of US hostages in 79.
I believe this group has defined itself as a marxist/islamist organization.

If you look further into this group Colt, I think you will find that they are nothing more than a bunch of wacked out islamocultists.

I think y'all may be way off base here:

Charter for the Fundamental Freedoms for Future Iran

1 - There will be complete freedom of belief, expression and the press. Any form of censorship or scrutiny of beliefs will be forbidden.

2 - Parties, assemblies, political groups, unions, associations, councils and syndicates - except those factions loyal to the dictatorships of the shah and Khomeini- are totally free. There will be no limits to this freedom, up to the point of armed uprising against the legitimate government and law of the land.

3 - General elections and suffrage will be the basis for the legitimacy of the government. Laws not enacted by the elected legislators of the country are not official and lack credibility.

4 - The judicial and professional security of all citizens, as well as individual and social rights, as stipulated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, will be guaranteed.

5 - All repressive organs remaining from the Khomeini regime, and all extraordinary courts and tribunals will be abolished. Freedom to defend oneself, the right of associations of jurists to carry on activities, and public trials in the presence of a jury will be guaranteed.

6 - Women will enjoy social, political, and cultural rights absolutely equal to those of men, including those outlined below:

The right to elect and be elected in all elections, and the right to suffrage in all referendums.
The right to employment and freedom of choice in profession, and the right to hold any public or government position, office, or profession, and judgeship in all judicial bodies.
The right to free political and social activity, social intercourse and travel without the permission of another person.
The right to freely choose the spouse, to marry, equal rights to divorce. Polygamy is banned.
The right to freely choose clothing and covering.
The right to use, without discrimination, all instructional, educational, athletic, and artistic resources, and the right to participate in all athletic competitions and artistic activities.
7 - All privileges based on gender, ethnic background, or beliefs will be abolished, and all citizens shall enjoy equal political and social rights.
8 - All forms of discrimination against the followers of various religions and denominations in the enjoyment of their individual and social rights will be prohibited. No citizen shall enjoy any privileges or be subject to any deprivations with respect to nomination for election, suffrage, employment, education, judgeship or any other individual or social right, for reason of belief or non-belief in a particular religion or denomination. The qualifications of judicial officials will not be determined by their religious or ideological position.

9 - Any form of compulsory religious or ideological teaching, and any compulsion to practice or non-practice of religious rituals and customs will be forbidden. The rights of all religions and denominations to teach, proselytize and freely perform their rituals and traditions, and the respect for and security of all places belonging to them, shall be guaranteed.

10 - To secure and strengthen as much as possible the popular sovereignty, territorial integrity, and the national consolidation and unity of the country, the people of Iranian Kurdistan's just right to autonomy is recognized in accordance with the Plan adopted by the National Council of Resistance.

11 - Any form of dual oppression shall be abolished against any ethnic or national minority, whether Kurds, Balouchis, Arabs, or Turkmen. All rights, and cultural, social and political freedoms will be guaranteed for them within the framework of national unity and Iran's territorial integrity.

12 - The workers, farmers, and multitude of toiling masses of the cities and villages are the driving force for progress, reconstruction and prosperity. Thus, all anti-labor and anti-peasant laws and regulations, and all debts owed by peasants and workers to the Khomeini regime, are abolished. New laws will be ratified in consultation with them, as the true owners of the fruits of their labor.

13 - In tomorrow's Iran, all nationalist and patriotic specialists, scholars, and artists, anywhere in the world, are welcome to take part in the reconstruction, prosperity, progress and independence of the country and in the service of the public. Their ideas, expertise, and efforts will be valued as our most precious human and national resource. In addition, all those forced to live in exile due to participation in the Resistance or to the Khomeini regime's pressures , will be warmly welcomed to return to Iran.

14 - The free market, national capitalism, individual and private ownership, and investment to develop the country's national economy and increase in production will be guaranteed.

15 - Provision of basic necessities, such as jobs, housing, health care and education to the poor and low income families, including workers, farmers, and government employees, in particular teachers, administrators and retirees, will be a priority.

16 - Iran will base its relations with the international community and its ties with other countries on independence, equality, and the safeguarding of its national interests and territories. It will refrain from interference in the affairs of others, and will prevent others from interfering in Iran's internal affairs. It will defend the interests of peace, peaceful co-existence, and regional and international cooperation.

"""

Is this really the agenda of Marxist Islamic Wackjobs? I think these people deserve our support.

Here is a link to a story about the nutjob who tried to set himself on fire outside the french embassy in Ottawa yesterday, I promised to post one back in #32.

http://www.canoe.ca/...

My work is close enough to this incident that I could hear the fire-truck and ambulance going to the scene.