Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 12:53 PM

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 12:54 PM

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-17-2004 10:28 PM

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-23-2004 04:01 PM

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wilibus wrote:

Looks great and very familar kinda curious how much of this is going to change after the balance though.

 

One issue i noticed though, at 1024x768 the formatting pushes the HAM modifiers to the second line

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Bennyboy4308 wrote:

Suppressionfire2 is kinda redundant. True some people don't have 1, but it really should have some advantage.

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I really struggled with SuppressionFire2 along with WildShot1/2.  But my first question is do we really have proof that the % chance to PD is equal to SF1?  Secondly, SuppressionFire2 is not specifically required for Master Carbineer.  If SF2 were to be considered redundant, then you would also have to consider ChargeShot1 redundant next to FireKnockDown.....but I don't think we want to start down that road.

With recent reports, I feel WildShot1/2 needed to be taken off the Redundant List because of the higher chance at Stun.  The increased chance of Stun becomes important with the reports of easier application of KD, PD, and other States.  So I felt it necessary to recognize these recent findings and bring to light that WildShot1/2 should be considered useful attacks to be explored by each person.

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Chiro wrote:

Hmm...

 

Working Specials: 14

Broken Specials: 0

 

How often do you PvP as a carbineer?

 

Good work on the stats by the way.

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Anybody that can give me PROOF of a BROKEN Special that I can reproduce on Chilastra or TC or SpaceBeta1 and I will gladly update this and take it to the Corr Forum.  Just because there are problems PvP'ing does not mean Carbineer is broken.....why do you think we have a COMBAT BALANCE coming.

And expect me to be very defensive when people make such attacks on me personally.  As Carbineer Correspondent I am held to "higher standards" in posting because I am the Community Leader here, but don't ever expect me to get walked all over by anybody except a name in RED.  There is a proper way to have an adult conversation and discussion.....but this is NOT the way to start it off.  The insinuation that I don't PvP is quite offensive and like saying I don't know my arse from a whole in the ground.  If you wish to rephrase your reply and offer up some PROOF of broken Specials, then please do that and I would be happy to discuss it with you or anybody else....

I am not the expert PvP'er like Addy, but I do enough to know Carbineer forwards, backwards, sideways, up and down.

And if I have misread your reply and flown off the handle without reason, then I am sorry.....but I am very passionate about Carbineer and take this very seriously.

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Chiro wrote:

Hmm...

 

Working Specials: 14

Broken Specials: 0

 

How often do you PvP as a carbineer?

 

Good work on the stats by the way.

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It all depends on your definition of "broken".. and this is where the "I want to be the best" arguement also comes in.

Technically, not a single special is broken in the sense that it does not do what is intended of it.  All KD moves do have a chance of KDing.. same with all state specials and damage specials.  Only the LegShot2/3 situation is a bit iffy semantically.. but this is where Firehawk states that it is redundant, so that's good.

That's all this document suggests.  We are not comparing the actual "broken state of Carbineer" PvP-wise.. we're only looking at the raw damage multipliers and effects of specials.

As far as how "broken" the Carbineer profession is in relation to its specials is a matter of opinion.  Personally, I think we are exactly where we should be.  Pistoleers are a bit low on the damage side, and Riflemen.. well, they speak for themselves.  And I can see where you're coming from, too.  Pistoleer used to be one of the best professions in PvP if coupled with the BH or Smuggler lines.  This has changed, though.

Yes, we could use a bit of generosity in terms of raw damage and state-inducing effectiveness (most specials against defense stackers aren't all that useful), but to say these moves are broken, I think, is pushing it too far.

And for the record, I've PvPd as a Carbineer for over 8 months now, and while I choose to remain unguilded for personal (and RP, I guess) reasons, I grouped up almost every day with the best PvP guild on my server (TS and all).  I think we were up to 3 Carbineers out of a team of 12-15.. simply because we see the sheer value of this profession.

Solo though, we're not nearly as effective.  But who wants to be a loner?

Prove to me that one of our specials is indeed broken and I will forever deem you my new God, heh.

Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 09-24-2004 11:36 AM

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Chiro wrote:

Hmm...

 

Working Specials: 14

Broken Specials: 0

 

How often do you PvP as a carbineer?

 

Good work on the stats by the way.

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Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:46 PM

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Bennyboy4308 wrote:

/sigh, just because you don't use a special in PvP doesn't mean others don't use them. Maybe you find wildshot redundant when you have fullautoarea, but the stun from wildshot is more reliable so some people open up with it. Maybe legshot2-3 isn't normally used, but sometimes people won't wear leggings.

 

In fact, if you go through the list you can find a use for every special in PvP, besides of course pre-reqs like legshot1 and scattershot1.

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:46 PM

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You mention ScatterShot1, which doesn't have a Damage Modifier done yet....I need to get that fixed because a dabbler might find the info useful.  A person looking to conserve Skill Points may find ScatterShot1 to be better for them than using 7 more Skill Points to get ScatterShot2.

Not that I encourage dabbling in Carbineer, but we should have as complete of information as possible

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TAfirehawk wrote:

Specials Data Table

Special Reload Modifier Damage Modifier HAM Modifier

FullAutoSingle2 1.7 5.5 1.6 / 2.0 / 0.5
BurstShot1 2.0 6.0 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
BurstShot2 2.5 6.0 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
ScatterShot1 2.0 - 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
Scattershot2 2.5 7.5 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
WildShot1 2.0 3.5 1.4 / 1.1 / 0.5
WildShot2 2.5 4.5 1.6 / 1.1 / 0.5
CripplingShot 2.5 7.5 0.8 / 1.8 / 0.8
FullAutoArea1 2.0 3.5 1.4 / 2.0 / 0.5
FullAutoArea2 2.5 4.5 1.6 / 2.0 / 0.5
LegShot2 (Marksman) 1.5 3.0 0.5 / 1.3 / 1.2
Legshot3 1.5 3.0 0.5 / 1.3 / 1.2
ChargeShot1 2.3 3.0 0.7 / 1.1 / 0.7

ChargeShot2 3.0 3.7

ActionShot1 (Marksman) 1.6 1.5

ActionShot2 1.7 3.0

SuppressionFire2 2.8 3.7

Please note the Damage Modifier is defined as carbine X modifier = damage, where "carbine" is gotten from the Examine Window of the Carbine. Some other classes choose to report their numbers as weapon X 1.5 X modifier. To compare Carbine Specials to those, you must divide Carbine Damage Modifiers by 1.5 or multiply those other modifiers by 1.5.

This information was collected by novamarine and TAfirehawk and may not be used without permission.

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-01-2004 09:58 PM

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Betatoxin wrote:

I am curious what intellectual property principal you are trying to invoke?

Since you are simply stipulating facts and not expression I fail to see how copyright applies.

You could claim trade secret, except you posted the information in a public forum on the internet.

Simply the fact that you collected the data does not actual confer to you any rights. Also it is difficult to see how in a discussion forum, where information is routinely copied, and quoted how you would have any expectation of control?

I am just curious, I have no real interest in the information, just find it curious that you seem to be trying to apply some principal of intellectual property to your post.

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ROFLMAO

It is a game dude....but Nova did 99% of the testing and we both feel our effect should be acknowledged....

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Elapidae wrote:
I see what he means, its now the fact that you gave credit where credit is due, but the line of "not to be used without permission". That line just doesn't make sence, especially since if anyone has a copyright, it would be SOE.

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Seems we have some people that don't understand this is a GAME.....personally I got a /chuckle out of it when Nova added that so I kept it.

And SOE can NOT copyright the work that Nova and I did.....and neither can we.

Nova and I simply ask that the data table of Specials not be used without some acknowledgement or authorization.  Where do we claim to have a PATENT or COPYRIGHT on this?  Nowhere.....

Is this all we can discuss on the Carbineer Specials?  GEEEEZZZZZZZZZ