Aucotte, Awcotte, Conacher, Edson, Emerson, Farrow, Forbes, Gardiner, Hayden, Judkins, Judson, Lane, MacKay, Nomoster, Orcutt, Stetson, Urquhart, & Vining

Variations of the Orcutt and Urquhart Names include:  de Hurchard, de Urcharde, de Urquhartt, Harchard, Orchar, Orchard, Orchoden, Orcutt, Orquart, Urchar, Urchard, Urquhard, Urquhart, Urquhartt, Urxohart, Wrghward, Wruhurt

 

 

 

 

 

Florence Pluma Waters Orcutt

holds her daughter Helen Elizabeth Orcutt Wilson.

 

Notes on the Genealogies and Lives of the Families

Orcutt, Waters, Adams, Scott, Montague, Moore, and Hawks 

by

Florence Pluma Waters Orcutt with additional notes by her son Fred S. Orcutt, Sr. Blacksburg, Virginia 1974

(c) 2003 by Danielle Skjelver

All notes have been typed verbatim except where unclear.  Spacing is different for convenience.  Photos of her handwriting are included where possible.  All references to "you" were to her children, one of whom is my grandmother.  I have attached photos of the individuals where possble.  Incidentally, the Afterward is a lovely work.  The Afterward and the Adams, Moore, and Montague families are on the Brits & Scots page.  Scott & Hawks is where you will find the Scott and Hawks families and the Deerfield Massacre

______________________________________________________

Photographs

Dora & Wm. Edwin Orcutt -- Robert Wm. Orcutt -- Florence Waters Orcutt

Deborah "Dora" Cook Orcutt, wife of WEO
William Edwin Orcutt
Robert William Orcutt as a toddler
Robert William Orcutt as a young man
Robert William Orcutt in middle age
Florence Pluma Waters probably before she married RWO and became an Orcutt
Florence Pluma Waters Orcutt

William Urxohart (Orcutt) Tree

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you.   

______________________________________________________

For a Glimpse of what life was like for William and Martha Orcutt in Seventeeth Century Massachusetts:  Spiritual Life and Warfare for our Colonial Ancestors

________________________________________________________

THE WOMEN WHO MARRIED THE ORCUTT MEN

 

by

Judy Orcutt Holy

 

Chapter One

Mary Martha Lane

 

William Orcutt married Mary Martha Lane on January 24, 1663/64.  William was the first male Orcutt in America.  His sister Susannah Orcutt Edson was the first Orcutt in America. 

William Lane Tree

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you.   

______________________________________________________

 

Chapter Two

Jane Emerson

 

Thomas Orcutt married Jane Emerson on June 29, 1703

Ralph Emerson of Foxton Tree

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you. 

______________________________________________________

 

Chapter Three

Mary Gardiner

 

Emerson Orcutt married Mary Gardiner on April 3, 1735

 

Ancestors of Mary Gardiner

 

Descendants of Nicholas Farrow

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you. 

______________________________________________________

 

 

Chapter Four

Prudence Hayden

Elijah Orcutt married Prudence Hayden on January 4, 1770

Ancestors of Prudence Hayden

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you. 

______________________________________________________

 

 

Chapter Five

Mehitable Vining

 

Emerson Orcutt married Mehitable Vining on March 10, 1804.

Ancestors of Mehitable Vining

Descendants of Robert Vining

All of the trees on this page contain personal information for living persons.  These trees have been removed until I get to the task of removing such information. Thank you. 

___________________________________________________________

 

WILLIAM EDWIN ORCUTT

pictured below

A Brief Biography of William Edwin Orcutt by Danielle Mead Skjelver
Barbara Orcutt Keeton's Convers - ations with F.S. Orcutt Regarding R.W. Orcutt and Wm. Edwin Orcutt
"End Comes In West" Obituary of W.E. Orcutt
Orcutt, Andress, Waters, Scott Headstones in Sioux City, IowaA Letter from Helen Orcutt Wilson (Granddaughter of W.E. Orcutt) to Her Daughter Joan Elizabeth WilsonWedding Accounts, Poetry, and Obituaries

 

  THE URQUHART QUESTION

"History of the Urquhart (Orcutt) Name from Antiquity"

by Frederic Scott Orcutt, Sr. 

Remarkable in its scope and breadth, this document covers the following names and variations in spelling:  Urquhart, Orcutt, Urchard, Urchar, Orchar, Orquart, Urquhartt, Urquhard, Harchard, Wrghward, Wruhurt, de Hurchard, de Urcharde.   There is an interesting relation to the name Edson which is very much intertwined with Orcutt/Urquhart history.  There were eleven Orcutt � Edson marriages up to 1799.  This begins in the Reformation era.  "History of the Orcutt Name From Antiquity" covers briefly the ancient names:  Conacher (or Ochonachan), Edson, Forbes, MacKay, Nomoster (or Nomaster), and Ochonochan.  This document has been "safely deposited in a number of genealogical libraries such as Library of Congress, Boston Public Library, Connecticut State Library, New England Historic Genealogical Society, etc."  It is wonderful and surprising to read so much about one's own family history. 

Our Thanks To Frederic Scott Orcutt, Sr.

Caveat

Bob Urquhart, the Clan Sennachie, has said that much of the Urquhart history contained in F.S. Orcutt, Sr., and Sir Thomas Urquhart's work is legend:  the origin of the Forbes, MacKay, and Urquhart families, for instance. 

Also, it is no longer taken as fact that Orcutts are descended from the Urquhart Clan.  There are some who say that this old family legend has been proven false by a DNA test.  Others question the testing methods. 

For more on this subject, see the "Who Are The Orcutts?" section below.

__________________________________________________________

Imagine Scotland between the ages of Nomoster and Conacher.

__________________________________________________________

For More On the Urquhart Clan See Also

The Official Urquhart Clan Site

Clan Urquhart at Electric Scotland

__________________________________________________________

WHO ARE THE ORCUTTS?

Clan Urquhart claims Orcutts as its own, but are we really? 

Joel Orcutt's test results done by FamilyTree exclude any link at least to the Urquhart ancestor used in the test.  View Joel Orcutt's DNA Test Results 

Joel took a SECOND DNA test, which also came back NEGATIVE for a connection to the same ancestor.  This latter test was done by Oxford University but was not done through the Clan's program.     

Participate in the  Clan Urquhart DNA Project.

Perhaps I am simply stubborn and sentimental, but I can not yet reject what my family believed their origin to be.    

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that Orcutts did carry the Urquhart name.  Judy Orcutt Holy presented the idea that our ancestors may have lived Clan Urquhart territory.  It was not at all uncommon to take the name of the clan in whose domain one lived. 

So, while there may be no blood link to the chief's line, which is what DNA testing excludes or includes, Orcutts may indeed be Urquharts. 

Joel Orcutt, however, has done extensive research into a new theory on another origin of the Orcutt name:  Aucotte.  His position on the debate is stated below, and here is a link to Joel Orcutt's own site:  Our Orcutt Family 

 

Orcutt/Urquhart/Aucotte Debate

 

By Judy Orcutt Holy

 

It has never been firmly documented that the William Orcutt who came to Massachusetts by 1664 is a descendant of the Scottish family/clan, Urquhart (and related spellings), although many lines of his descendants have passed on traditions of such Scottish heritage.  However, in 2000-2001 Joel Thomas Orcutt in Oklahoma, a longtime family researcher, developed an alternate background which points to an English Warwickshire family named Awcotte (or related spellings).  JTO offers interesting circumstantial evidence, and serious students of the question of William 1 Orcutt�s ancestry should consult his results and arguments.  

 

This writer, while admiring JTO�s work, is not fully persuaded:   For example, his approach takes no account of a number of pieces to the puzzle which indicate an Urquhart/Scottish background.  How else did that belief come into so many Orcutt family traditions, in some cases, emphatically?  JTO is not unaware of those pieces; he considers they come from various mistaken views, carried on through time.  One such piece:  the Rev. James Keith of Bridgewater, Massachusetts, in recording the marriage of William 2 Orcutt and Hannah Smith in 1698, spelled WO�s name �Urrohart� or �Uxxohart� (the penmanship for the �r� could read either way).   This very Rev. Keith was Scots-born and also son-in-law to William 1 Orcutt�s supposed sister, Susanna Orcutt Edson who lived in Bridgewater too.  Keith may well have been aware of the Urquhart background and wished to indicate it, since WO could only make a mark for his name.  

 

It must be noted, however, that there is dispute over Susanna Edson�s maiden name.  JTO has located a Warwickshire marriage record stating that Samuel Edson married Susanna Bickley in 1638.  However, 3 generations of Edson family researchers call her Susanna Orcutt, including one (1856) whose source came from her grandson.  This seems a stubborn issue, difficult to resolve, unless Susanna Orcutt had married a Bickley before marrying Samuel Edson, or some other such way may connect both names in her background.  Edson researchers now refer to her as Susanna Bickley/Orcutt, a fair way to keep both possibilities open. 

 

A possible �combination� resolution to the debate could occur if it could be demonstrated that these Awcottes of Warwickshire were originally Scottish Urquharts (Edson researchers stated Susanna Orcutt�s family was well known and respected in Warwickshire, but JTO states that his own search of Warwickshire records show almost no Orcutt-related names; yet he demonstrates the presence of various Aucottes).  To JOH�s knowledge, that effort has not yet been made.   Another important line to continue searching is from the Urquhart end.  Sir Thomas Urquhart (1611-1660) speaks of cousins in England, and one or more may have settled in Warwickshire.   Meanwhile, Clan Urquhart continues to accept Orcutts as full and appropriate members.  Perhaps, since conclusive written records continue to be lacking, DNA testing can help?   

 

Why these different views among Orcutt lines of descent?   JTO has told JOH that his family has never had a Scots tradition, only English.  He descends from Joseph 2 Orcutt, fourth son of William 1 Orcutt.  Joseph 2 was the only one of William 1�s offspring to leave the family region in Massachusetts, moving from Weymouth (where the families of Andrew 2 and Benjamin 2 also lived) to Connecticut in 1717.  JTO stated on his website that Joseph 2 �had become dissatisfied with the illiberal rule of the Massachusetts theocracy.�  (He did not give a source for this view.)  Could that signal a major family breach, a deliberate break from family traditions?  

_____________________________________________________

 

The Other Side of the Debate

 

By Joel T. Orcutt

 

            Sincere thanks is extended to you, Danielle for  the informative and interesting web site, and extending the opportunity to me to respond to the article that concerns  and cites me personally. These are complex issues, and due to space restraints I will be able to touch only the high spots, but I will gladly share a copyrighted excerpt from my book that deals with these specific issues in much greater detail to anyone wanting to study it for themselves, if they  e-mail me  jorcutt@juno.com 

 

            I wish to make plain from the start that there is nothing personal in my disagreement with Judy Orcutt Holy on any issue presented here, and I both respect and like her, and know her to be a good person  from the personal exchanges we have had. She is an asset to the Orcutt family, and due recognition for the considerable hard work and effort she has undertaken.  Her views and help have been useful to me in no small measure as I have continually attempted to prove what has formerly been written about the Orcutts, and why,  and what actual records and various circumstances indicate about Orcutt origins. I appreciate this opportunity to address what she has written in this particular instance, as some of it is  misleading about what I personally know and believe, perhaps due to no fault of Judy's , but perhaps my failure to communicate as well as I might have, and  I sincerely appreciate the chance to set the record straight.

 

            I agree with Judy Orcutt Holy wholeheartedly that �It has never been firmly documented that the William Orcutt who came to Massachusetts by 1664 is a descendant of the Scottish family/clan, Urquhart ...�,  and in fact I would go a little further by pointing out that there is actually NO documentation, "firm", or otherwise, that proves  such having been the case.  

           

            I would sincerely like to be able to take credit for  having  developed an alternate background which points to an English Warwickshire family named Awcotte...�   in regards to the early origins of the Orcutt family, but unfortunately for me Mr. Jarvis Bonesteel Edson beat me to it by 100 years! 

 

Edsons in England and America and  Genealogy of the Edsons,

by Jarvis Bonesteel Edson Of the City of New York,  The Knickerbocker Press

27 west 23rd street New York, New York, 1903.

page. 89-90

� The Orcutt family, as the Edson, had long been seated in Warwickshire.  The surname appears to be an etymological modification of the French compound, Orcote, which in England became corrupted into Alcott, Orcutt, Aucott, and Howcote.� 

 

            Mr Edson�s isn�t the only reference that proceeds me that points to English origins for Orcutts;

 

DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN FAMILY NAMES

ELSDON C. SMITH

HARPER & BROTHERS PUBLISHERS  1956

 

page 158

� Orcutt (Eng.) Dweller in a hillside, or riverbank, cottage.�

 

               Mr. Silas Orcutt, born June 26, 1795, Butternuts, Otsego County, New York, son of Rev. War Vet, Benajah Orcutt , a great grandson of William Orcutt.   An 18th century born Orcutt with whom a  scant three generations of Orcutts lay between himself and William Orcutt,  the immigrant ancestor, (and who proceeds me by well over 150 years), when asked his ethnic background reported himself to be of  English origin.  I would suppose he knew if he were English or not.   Silas� father, Benajah Orcutt, was born ca 1758, son of Joseph Orcutt Jr, (born 1717),  and we can rightly expect Silas surely  had good firsthand knowledge in respect to the Orcutt�s ancestral origins, and with only three generations between himself and the immigrant William we should certainly consider Silas a highly reliable witness.

 

Federal Census of 1871 (Ontario Index)

ORCUTT , SILAS  75  UNITED STATES  PRINCE EDWARD  Athol 

Sex: Male 

Age: 75 

Birthplace: United States

Religion: Universalist 

Origin: ENGLISH  

Occupation: Carpenter

District: Prince Edward ( 059 )

Sub-district: Athol ( G )

Division: 1 

Page: 37 

Microfilm reel: C-9990 

Reference: RG31 - Statistics Canada

 

            I  believe, in light of these references, and other information, some of it circumstantial, and some of it  �firm�, well documented facts,  that the Orcutts are of English origin, and this goes well beyond  being merely �interesting circumstantial evidence..�   It's not what I am saying, or any theory that I am advancing, but these recorded sources that  stand on their own merit in regards to Orcutt ancestry.  I would also like to point out that verifiable marriage, christening, and burial records aren�t circumstantial evidence, but real, viable, primary documentation, and such is the stuff that genealogical dreams are not  only made of, but are realized through. 

 

            Judy Orcutt Holy and I exchanged some really good information and ideas about Orcutt ancestry several years ago, but perhaps due to faulty  communication she has apparently misunderstood several key issues that she uses to try to prove her theory that a wide-spread, common knowledge of  a connection between the Orcutts and Urquharts  has been a tradition throughout the Orcutt family from the immigrant ancestor, but somehow has been missed out on by descendants of Joseph Orcutt, my own ancestor.  The fact I stated was that the �tradition�, if you will, that Orcutts were of English origins concerns my immediate family,  persons I have personal knowledge of, and that is my direct line, and that being back to perhaps the time of the Rev. War.  I know what my folks believed, and my grandparents, and they based their belief on what the had learned from their folks on back.  Silas Orcutt, mentioned above, was a Joseph Orcutt descendant of my particular line and his answer when asked by the census taker as to his ethnic origins is totally consistent with what my particular Orcutts have always said.  There are hundreds of �lines� of Orcutts descended from Joseph Orcutt, and to establish what any of them have personally believed, or perpetuated in regards to any legend would have to come from them. That said, I have extensively researched Joseph Orcutt�s descendants, and over the years that put me in touch with many of those folks, and while some had heard about the Urquhart/Orcutt legend,  it has remained to date that what I have found is that information came to them by something they read, or were told by some one that had read it, ect., and as of yet I have never found one instance of the legend being �handed down�, or proved to be any older than early last century.   This is not only limited to the line of Joseph, but is true also for many Orcutts from other "lines"  I have corresponded with about this issue.   If there is �emphatically   based knowledge,  please, let�s see the proof of it, and supply the names of the people that the emphatic information has been passed along by, and I will personally make a sincere effort to help ascertain how well the information can be relied upon.   As it now stands,  I am forced to rely on the documents that I have been able to procure that can provide proof of what various Orcutts in the center of Orcutt family history have had to say  at various times about William Orcutt's early origins.  Note, again,  this is not JTO's �personal theory� , but  is simply what  I am relating that respected Orcutt historians in the not so distant past wrote.  If there is any good reason to doubt they knew what they were talking about, or likely they wouldn't have been in contact with persons having known about the "legend", if it indeed existed in any broad scope, such as Judy's theory suggest,  I sincerely would like to learn what those reasons might be.

 

The sheer volume of information Mr. Frank Bates presents in this address in it's entirety wholly attest to the fact that extensive efforts had long been undertaken at that time, 1904, as to researching and documenting the  Orcutts. 

 

Boston Evening Transcript

September 19, 1904

 

Some Orcutt Homesteads

          ________

An Address Delivered before the Orcutt Family Association at the reunion held in South Weymouth, Mass., Sept. 17, 1904

         _________

 

By Frank A. Bates

President of the Association

          -----

paragraph 4

 

     � Of our mutual progenitor, William (1) Orcutt, the early part of his life is yet a mystery.  That he came to this town, (Weymouth), it�s immediate vicinity is sufficiently proved.  That was about 1664, for on Jan. of that year he married Mary Lane of Hingham....Without other evidence than the business he did, we should naturally suppose that he was more than fifty years old when  he died in 1693.�

 

   Thus we have Mr. Bates word, and we can trust that word is good in light of the in-depth information he had compiled about the Orcutts at that time, that he, nor anyone he knew of, had any information at all in regards to William Orcutt�s origins, or life prior to having married Mary Lane.  If Judy's theory that the legend has been both long standing, and wide spread, why did  the President of the Orcutt Family Association 1904, not even 100 years ago, not mention it?  

 

            Fred W. Ingalsbe, Secretary of the Orcutt Family Association for many years and an aggressive Orcutt genealogist  states point blank  at least several times prior to 1935 he has no clue as to William Orcutt�s early origins.

 

Orcutt  Family Association   ,  April 24, 1932

 There was an Olcott  among the earliest settlers in Hartford County Conn.  In 1790 four Olcott families were recorded ( residing) New York, Benijah Olcott, John Olcott, Oliver Olcott, , and William Olcott and doubtless the two latter had lived in Columbia County on their way north from Hartford, County, Conn.  William Orcutt  was (apparently ?)  the oldest of the four, perhaps the father of the other three.  This William Olcott was no doubt a grandson of William (2) Orcutt, and the name Olcott as (commonly ?) was used.  William  (2) Orcutt being the first son of William (1) Orcutt and having been of Bridgewater, Plymouth, County, Mass., where he  married Jane(3) Washburn, John  (2) Washburn,  John (1) Washburn  and of his ( missing word) we have (names?)  sons and daughters and some of them having no doubt (retained?) at Hartford, County, Conn. and later into Columbia, County,  New York.  Of the father , William (1) Orcutt settled early at Hingham,  married  Jan. 21, 1664 , Mary (2) Lane , Andrew(1)  Lane , Was in Scituate 1667 which place the children were all born, except William  (2) Orcutt born at perhaps Weymouth, and also Bridgewater, but the youngest Susannah at Bridgewater,  Perhaps was first at Weymouth but earlier  than that the great (passing ? passage) of time and nothing about him has come down to this time and is not known (further ?) of him anything before his marriage at Hingham, Jan. 24, 1663-4.�

 

            To avoid any possible confusion, Benajah, John, Oliver, and William �Olcutt� named here have in fact been proven to have been Orcutts, just as Mr. Ingalsbe states.  Look at what he has to say in another newsletter;

 

Orcutt Family Association   1935

 

 "William  Orcutt (whence he came we have no trace) married Mary Lane of Hingham Jan. 24, 1664, daughter of Andrew and Triphany.  When he died his widow was Martha  Whether this is a twist of names or an evidence that he married again, I am uncertain. Benjamin was the ninth child born 1679. I have just returned from Plymouth, where I have been looking up old Orcutt deeds, and I have some good materials.  We are rapidly collecting data for an "Orcutt Genealogy" and will be thankful if anyone having any data on the family will send it to the Transcript.  The reunion of the Orcutt Family Association will be held this summer, and all new material will be made public at that time, in the various addresses."

 

            These statements, "whence he came we have no trace", and, � Perhaps was first at Weymouth but earlier  than that the great (passing ? passage) of time and nothing about him has come down to this time and is not known further of him anything before his marriage at Hingham, Jan. 24, 1664.�,  are easily understood.  Mr. Ingalsbe didn�t know where William Orcutt had came from, had no trace of a clue as to where it might have been,  and he states plainly that �nothing has come down to this time...�

            To fully appreciate the significance that the clearly admitted lack of any known, or suspected information about William�s origins that  is presented here  entails one should also study more of Mr. Ingalsbe�s newsletters, at which point  it quickly becomes glaringly plain there is no chance he would have known about any legend but failed to mention it, if he had any inkling of such.  As he had been in personal contact with a multitude of Orcutts, and Orcutt genealogist on a constant basis  for many years previous to these references having been written it is extremely hard to reconcile Judy�s theory  that the legend was widespread common knowledge to what we can find actually being said by these key Orcutt historians of the past.  It should also be pointed out that the legend, as was passed on by Mr. Ingalsbe when he became aware of it, and his obvious embellishment of it, is rife with �facts� that can easily be shown to be totally non factual,  in some cases in fact impossible, thus the legend as he passed it along looses any veracity it might ever have contained, if it had existed previously. I would be glad to furnish anyone interested with both a transcript of the "legend", as well as an assement that documents the many glaring "mistakes", and unfactual information it contains that make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to put any relience in the "facts"  related in it.

           

            The fact that James Keith would have had any insider information about the Orcutts is another of Judy�s theories which is not supported by any documentation.  It relies first on the assumption that it was James Keith that personally made the marriage record. As samples of his handwriing are available and could easily be compared with the marriage record by someone with expertise in that area,  that probably should be the first step in advancing this theory.  Whether or not James Keith can be, or is proven to have made the record,  this theory he had insider information in regards to early Orcutt origins would still rely on the assumption that his mother-in-law was an Orcutt, which can be shown to be incorrect, or at the very least, improbable.  The marriage record for Samuel Edson  and Susannah Bickley exist, and is not a figment of my imagination, and anyone wishing to ascertain this fact for themselves can easily do what I, and the Edson Family Association, have done...ante up the cash and obtain a copy of the marriage record.  In that record Susannah Bickley and Samuel Edson are named to have been �of Whittaker�, which is Whitacre, which is a parish that borders Fillongley in Warwickshire, and Fillongley, as we all know, is well documented to have been the birthplace of Samuel Edson. Whitacre has been identified as the place in England that Thomas Snell, also an early settler  of Bridgewater, Mass., and the nephew of Samuel Edson, is known to have originated from prior to settlement in America.  The next element of Judy�s theory relating to William Orcutt and James Keith is that  as she revealed to me in 2000;

 

 My imagination of the scenario is that, possibly right around September of 1698, Rev. James and William 2 may have talked about Scottish backgrounds or the Rev. had some fresh reason to think of it, so he purposely decided to use that name in writing this marriage record ...."

 

I�m going to cheat a little here, as I address this issue in my book, in the interrogative section;

 

OUR ORCUTT FAMILY

Copyright June 2000, Joel Thomas Orcutt

page 3

 

�Doesn�t the marriage record for William Orcutt/Urrohart  to Hannah Smith at least indicate that the person that recorded the marriage knew William Orcutt Jr. quite well, probably  was acquainted with him and the Orcutts, and likely knew their family background, thus  probably wanted to use the opportunity of the marriage to memorialize the fact that the Orcutts were Urquharts?

 

There is no proof whatever to indicate such was the case. It might be better to ask, than answer, in regards to this theory;  Any such person having such an intense interest in �memorializing� Orcutt family history might well have been expected to have done so in some other, more lucid manner.  How would that person have been able to know, or why would they assume that anyone finding that record years later would be able to connect it to the Orcutts in any way?   This would appear to have been an extremely  bizarre, not to mention uncertain way to memorialize an entire family's heritige!   As William, and other members of the Orcutt family were never recorded as Urquhart, or a variant there-of in any other record, what is the true significance as to this one time?  Why did this person himself incorrectly spell Urquhart, if that was the name he was trying to spell?   William�s sister,  Mary Orcutt�s marriage the proceeding year, and the births of  his brother John Orcutt�s children in the years before and after this marriage, were all recorded as Orcut, or Orcutt.  The logical explanation in view of all the facts would  better seem to indicate that perhaps a new clerk during this  particular time that had little, or no prior knowledge of the Orcutt family, and simply recorded the marriage as they imagined the name might be spelled.  To imagine, or read any more into any genealogical value presented by the variant spelling on the marriage record stretches the bounds of common logic, and of course falls into the realm of speculation, or imagination.

           

            About Susannah Bickley, aka Orcutt,  as Judy writes, �3 generations of Edson family researchers call her Susannah Orcutt, including one (1856) whose source came from her grandson. �,  The source of some of the information for this book  by Judge Elijah Hayward  in 1853  did include mention of  a book compiled by Josiah Edson, grandson of Susannah Bickley Edson, but it isn�t stated anywhere in that book  that the use of the surname �Orcutt�  was referenced from that earlier work of Josiah�s, which went missing, and as no copy is known to have been made,  it is seems useless to speculate about what it may, or may not have revealed.  Judge Hayward doesn't state how, or why he was attributing the surname Orcutt to Susannah, but the most likely source would have been Nahum Mitchell's History of Bridgewater.  To point to a work that is missing as a source document  presents an impossibility of any chance for verification. To attribute a reference to Susannah having been surnamed Orcutt from Judge Hayward's book as having been learned by him from Josiah Edson's book, which he doesn't say,  is a far stretch, and of course more speculation.   How does  JOH, or anyone else know exactly what Josiah Edson's book said about Susannah?   Mr Gene Edson, President of the Edson Family Association revealed to me an e-mail, (I�ll supply a copy to anyone interested), in 2001 in which he states that the consensus among the Edsons , and of his own understanding, is  the  use of the surname "Orcutt"  by Judge Mitchell in The History Of Bridgewater is the first reference known as to Susannah as having been surnamed "Orcutt".

           

            It�s also interesting to note that Judy's theory that the Edson genealogical works can be considered wholly and strictly correct in their every aspect due the intimate nature of the information having been passed along personally  within the Edson family itself, thus an excellent, definitive source about Susannah,  (especially as to her surname having been carried forward from a supposed personal knowledge as recorded by her own grandson). But what does this say in turn to the fact that this work,  and the other Edson genealogical works utterly fail to mention in even one instance Susannah was Scottish in ancestry?   If this  Urquhart/Orcutt connection was in fact  wide-spread, common knowledge among the Orcutt community as Judy's other theory allows,  how did this, given the well known intimate relationship maintained between the Orcutts and the Edsons for the centuries afterwards, and insider information having come straight down from her own grandson as Judy believes, result in the Orcutts having that knowledge, but not the Edsons?   If  Judy's theory that the surname Orcutt was passed along by Josiah Edson from that missing book and was intimately repeated in three generations of Edson genealogy there-after, proves anything at all for the reasons she gives  it also  proves way too much in regards to her theory of the Urquhart/Orcutt common knowledge issue.  If the premise is that the Edson genealogies are to be considered to be a totally infallible source, and as such we can be assured Susannah's surname was Orcutt because these genalogies state that,  then we should just as easily  be fully ready to accept Jarvis B. Edson's determination about the Orcutts, " The Orcutt family, as the Edson, had long been seated in Warwickshire.  The surname appears to be an etymological modification of the French compound, Orcote, which in England became corrupted into Alcott, Orcutt, Aucott, and Howcote.�   If this is not correct, then I would respectfully ask Judy how she is able to discern  between what is factual in these genealogical works,  and what is not?

           

            Addressing  the last paragraph, Joseph Orcutt certainly did remove from Ma. to Ct.....along with several of the sons of his brothers. Applying the same logic, (because they moved to Ct.), I would suppose we must then believe Joseph's nephews having moved there also might "signal" that they also broke from "family traditions"?

I have followed genealogy in regards to the Orcutts for many years, and Joseph�s line in particular, but  this is the first time  I have ever heard  a theory advanced, or a question, or statement made insinuating Joseph Orcutt, or any of  his descendants might have experienced a �breach�... �from family traditions� , and in fact quite the opposite can easily be shown to be the truth of the matter.  Joseph�s descendants lived in the same areas aside,  or near other Orcutt "lines" , such as Stafford, Ct.,  Berkshire, Hampden, and Hampshire, and other places in Ma., many places in Vermont, and New Hampshire, and especially Washington County, and  numerous other places in New York, and many other points west.  But perhaps most damaging  to her theory on this issue  is the fact that some of Joseph�s descendants remained in  Bridgewater, and  many other places in and near  Massachusetts and throughout New England.......and can still be found living there today.  I see no logical reason, or know of no information that hints at, or points to any reason to suspect Joseph Orcutt and his descendants ever broke from "family traditions", or that there was ever a "breach" between them and other member of the Orcutt family, and if Judy, or anyone else has any  information that proves, or even indicates such was true, I  sincerely request seeing it.  Otherwise, I can't see any wisdom on the part of anyone in speculating that such might have been the case.

           

            Different people no doubt have different ideas, and standards, as to what constitutes �proof�, and not surprisingly most people feel their own personal theories and ideas are the ones  with the most merit.   But any of us at any time should be prepared to offer real, documented and  verifiable proof for what we are theorizing, and especially if we are publishing and presenting such information as "fact".   In this respect I have to agree with Judy Orcutt Holy  in what she wrote July 1, 2002, in a message on the Orcutt board at Genealogy.com;

�Maybe it's not surprising that historians and genealogists haven't referred to oral tradition in formal published materials, since there's no way others can verify it. (I'm grateful for those who are careful to use only verifiable sources.�       

I emphatically  agree with Judy on this critical and important point, but in doing so also humbly point out that the �legend� theory, and the insider knowledge assumptions/theory  she advances about Susannah Orcutt/James Keith/William Orcutt Jr., as well as many other points made in this article  are of course unverifiable. 

           

             I  wish to again convey my sincere respect and appreciation for both Danielle and Judy�s efforts, and believe much can be gained by respectfully  listening to and examining what others think, and have found.  I believe an open minded approach is always requisite to success where genealogy is concerned, and  my goal remains the same, finding and documenting the early origins of the Orcutt  family, no matter where that leads, and  I continue to welcome hearing from anyone that is interested in discussing these fascinating issues.

 

_____________________________________________________

Edson Family Genealogy Forum

Emerson Family Genealogy Forum

Gardiner Family Genealogy Forum

Hayden Family Genealogy Forum

Lane Family Genealogy Forum

Orcutt Family Genealogy Forum

Vining Family Genealogy Forum

Waters Family Genealogy Forum

Woolever Family Genealogy Forum

______________________________________________________

 

Danielle Skjelver

Author of MASSACRE:  Daughter of War

 

MASSACRE:  Daughter of War

(c) 2003 by Danielle Skjelver

 

Clan Map of Scotland - Click Here


FastCounter by bCentral