11/3/2004

Exit polls and ‘actual’ results don’t match; Evoting states show greater discrepancy

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  1. I called it a week ago: Bush going away in election night robbery via Diebold hi jinks. And guess what, folks? That’s right, there’s no way to challenge the results because there is no paper trail.

    All I can say is that I we are going to reap what we have sewn in ways that will startle even repubs. Give it a year; they’ll be screaming for Kerry.

    Comment by victim — 11/3/2004 @ 11:13 am

  2. Only Democrats could argue that the ACTUAL RESULTS are wrong because they don’t match polls.

    Comment by Joe — 11/3/2004 @ 11:17 am


  3. Thanks for the report! The major media isn’t talking about this. Keep up the good work.

    Comment by Holly — 11/3/2004 @ 11:37 am

  4. I guess we must concede- however, this report does show that there may be some inconsitencies. It probably will not be looked at over time because of the margin of victory.

    It is a sad day for our country. I can’t imagine what the rest of the world will think of us now…

    Comment by mdsalen — 11/3/2004 @ 12:00 pm

  5. Instead of whining, Democrats should analyze this election and start planning for the election coming up in two years where many senators will be up for reelection and house members have to run again. Complaining for four more years will take away from the focus needed to win future elections.

    Comment by Bonnie — 11/3/2004 @ 12:52 pm

  6. What the results actually show is that the majority of Americans (all Bush supporters) have voted for lies, illegal wars, genocide, war crimes, & empire.

    As the majority of them are far-right wing religious “Christian” fundamentalists (one wonders what kind of religion allows these crimes) they should be able to understand that they will reap what they have sowed.

    May they rot in hell.

    Comment by Osama — 11/3/2004 @ 1:00 pm

  7. Exit polling has been and is one of the measures used by this country and others to check for fraud potential in elections worldwide. This was the method used to legitimize the result of the recent referendum in Venezuela. By this standard, fraud in our own election must be investigated.

    Moving vote tabulation out of people’s hands and into a server running secret, proprietary tabulation software further erodes the legitimacy of the process. As long as those in power benefit from these accounting methods, there will be no change.

    These are dark days indeed

    Comment by brisa — 11/3/2004 @ 1:02 pm

  8. It’s time to come together.

    The bitterness of the campaign that just completed is not good for the country.

    It’s time to move forward & act as 1 country.

    Comment by Jack Pearson — 11/3/2004 @ 1:05 pm

  9. It must suck to be George W. Bush. That asshole’s been hell bent on losing this election. He tried to fuck up as much as he can for the past 4 years.

    Oh well, I want to welcome Harry Reid as our new leader-elect in the Senate and express my gratitude to Tom Daschle for his heroic battle against the right-wing machine.

    Yes, it’s time to come together so I would welcome the Republicans to join us and stop screwing us. But we’ll see….

    Comment by joe — 11/3/2004 @ 1:18 pm

  10. It’s a dark, dark day for America. I cringe when I think of what the next four years will possibly hold.

    Comment by Dawn — 11/3/2004 @ 1:20 pm

  11. OMG -

    “May you all rot in Hell” ????

    “These are dark days indeed” ?????

    Can you guys put a little more drama into the election please?

    There are political channels in this country and we should use them.

    If Kerry has such a wonderful plan, then why can’t he pass something throguh congress? Why does he have to claim it forhimself as a platform on which to run? He is a senator, so doesn’t he have an obligation to bring any compelling “plans” to the table?

    Oh that’s right - he or Edwards don’t have time to show up to vote. Or to do the jobs they have currently.

    If I skipped out on my job as much as they have, I’d be fired from my job - without lifetime benefits.

    Let’s cool it with the “Woe as me” melodrama!

    Quit calling people names - that is so grade school.

    The world is NOT going to end.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 1:21 pm

  12. The fact that nobody is screaming voter fraud is terrifying. We’ve become sheep, willing to just shrug and say “oh well.” I spent all day working the election and saw such outrageous examples of voter fraud, manipulation, suppression, and intimidation that I was in tears by the end of the day. This is no longer the country I loved. In four years it will be unrecognizable. It’s time to move away and mourn the death of democracy. Unless we fight now, there is no saving America. I’m ashamed of our silent acceptance.

    Comment by kimbob — 11/3/2004 @ 1:22 pm

  13. “come together"?

    you must be out of your freaking MIND. this country will never, ever be whole again.

    we have the whole of the entire world on our side. all countries are looking to the American left to save them from the moloch-worshipping Bush.

    “I know the forces of spontaneous, emergent Life are stronger than the forces of evil, repression and death, and the forces of death will destroy themselves."– William S. Burroughs

    Comment by neversaynever — 11/3/2004 @ 1:25 pm

  14. kimbob -

    More melodrama.
    If you worked at the poll - don’t you have a responsibility to report the fraud you saw? You know - a little know thing called documentation?

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 1:37 pm

  15. Coming from Venezuela, this is very familiar to me.
    U.S. international observers in Venezuelan elections learned all these tricks here, so that the same tricks could be used in the States in favor of the incumbent. Haven´t you noticed that recently Chavez and Bush are a little friendlier toward each other´s policies ????????
    Shame on both of them.

    Comment by Ruben Rivero — 11/3/2004 @ 1:37 pm

  16. People need to wake and realize that our goverment is morphing into one based upon evangelical christian values. I find it interesting that Bush and his believers talk about ending goverments based upon religion in the middle east. Yet, they are doing their best to establish the same type of goverment here in the U.S.

    Since all his believers talk about his strong moral character. Why is it o.k. morally to lie, cheat and steal? Because this administration has scared people into believing they are the only ones who can fight the terrorists. This is a christian crusade. Yes, I said CRUSADE! When push comes to shove that is what they think at their core.

    Comment by Dwayne Bass — 11/3/2004 @ 1:39 pm

  17. Of course this is fraud.
    They learned how to do it in the Venezuelan elections two months ago. The incumbent, Chavez, easily won because of the machines. The international observers could not prove anything.
    Shame on them. Haven´you noticed both Chavez and ush are a little friendlier towar each oher?

    Comment by Ruben Rivero — 11/3/2004 @ 1:41 pm

  18. I’m one of those sheep I guess…I’m going to tune out of politics permanently. One party has such overwhelming control of the media, the military, most of “the Church", the business world and even the pro sports elite…we simply cannot compete. And now with Diebold and its secret, proprietary software, we’ll never really have free votes again. One by one, in states with Rep governors and legislatures, Diebold will be invited in, and democracy will die.

    Welcome the the Banana Republic of America.

    Comment by Nelder — 11/3/2004 @ 1:44 pm

  19. let’s study history. how ’bout 1930’s Germany.

    This isn’t melodrama. It’s series shit, and that’s what the bush folks don’t seem to get.

    are you kidding me? give this guy a popular mandate? i’d rather nixon, cuz at least he had a brain.

    hello future of drafts, cut benefits, and the rich get richer. can’t wait.

    Comment by jarrett — 11/3/2004 @ 1:44 pm

  20. It is NOT time to come together. It IS time to organize the same sort of resistance with which the French fought the Nazi occupation in WWII; it is time to organize in the way the people of India organized against the British. One might lose to evil (the other Hitler was elected also), but one does NOT give in to it. Resist. Organize. Confront. Impeach.

    Comment by Richard Marks — 11/3/2004 @ 1:46 pm

  21. The saddest thing to happen is that now “Karl Rove” politics have been stamped with approval by the re-election of Bush. A new era is now going to be ushered in and it will not be pretty. Anybody who has not seen “Bush’s Brain” ought to get a copy and sit down watch how this man operates behind the scenes. We will now be subject to political operatives that were kicked around as kids for being such nerds and now are allowed payback time with no social conscious by “killing” the good guys in politics with lies and distortions.

    Comment by Tj — 11/3/2004 @ 1:47 pm

  22. That was obvious all the time - the voting machines designed to bypass the inconvenient 2000 problem of recounts. Without paper trail, problem eliminated! Easy!

    Comment by Hehee — 11/3/2004 @ 2:04 pm

  23. Another win for the biased media. If we Dems are gonna take back our govt…. we gotta boycott i tell ya. Clear channel has rid ourselves of another voice whether u like him or not… Howard. People in all those red midwest states and the Dakotas hear Rush all day long. Fox is pompous as hell and Chris Mathews is still an apologist for the Republicans, going against his own roots.

    We are becoming extict humans of caring, giving, & reasonable people. If we do not amass properly, we surely will be all in jail soon for these writings in this forum, called freedom of speech.

    Comment by acbalint — 11/3/2004 @ 2:16 pm

  24. Why did Kerry concede so quickly after promising to"count every vote?”

    I am very disappointed with the early concession. Where is the fight? This is a quicker concession than Gore. Is it all rigged? Both sides? Geez. Disgusting.

    Well, the Republicans own the government now. At least those of us who did the right thing can say, “don’t blame me we didn’t vote for him.” And as the sh*t hits the fan over the next four years, they won’t be able to blame anyone else for their misdeeds.

    Comment by jOE f. — 11/3/2004 @ 2:19 pm

  25. I think the Democrats really need to take a close look at God. The Republicans effectively used God as their tool for winning the election. As much as many Democrats try to ignore God, they need to take a good hard look at God to see where they are losing the message. As hard as the Democrats may not like it, people will vote against their own financial well being if the choice is made to look like a moral choice. In ignoring God, the Democrats have failed their electorate, and under estimated the deceptiveness of the Republicans, again.

    Comment by captcoyote — 11/3/2004 @ 2:23 pm

  26. We need to look at the bright side of this election. While I fought hard for Kerry in this election, another 4 years of Bush may be to our advantage. Only the fact that people were afraid of change allowed George to win. Kerry won the majority of moderates in voting, but Bush’s fear campaign got enough of them that he won. I do believe that 4 more years of Bush may alienate so many moderates that the extreme right control of the GOP will collapse due to the many,many,many failures Bush will continue to create. But we must stay strong and organized to capitalize on these failures. First up, let us kick Santorum and Delay out of office. It won’t be easy but it can be done.

    Comment by freemark — 11/3/2004 @ 2:24 pm

  27. This is a dark day in the history of the U.S. As Democrats, we have a lot of work ahead of us if we want to take back our country from the grips of this cancerous corruption and greed. We must remain steadfast and committed to bringing back transparency and legitimacy to U.S. democracy through the principals of liberty, equality, education, and honesty.

    Comment by J. Rhodes — 11/3/2004 @ 2:27 pm

  28. Bush’s Brain?

    Are you for real? You are probably one of those who believes The Daily Show is real news? Like Jon Stewart said, his show follows puppets making crank calls.

    Do you think someone who would create something like “Bush’s Brain” is going to truly report both sides? Do you think fair reporting, journalism and movies get the ratings?

    Yeah - I’m going to grab a movie - design to create a prfit - and make all of my political decisions based on it.

    Do you self a favor - think for yourself.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 2:29 pm

  29. As much as I hate to say it, I agree with the other Joe… statistically, exit polling is subject to even higher margins of error because the sample is not random and participation is voluntary. Really, given these stats, all you can make an argument for is that republicans don’t like to say who they voted for, and I can’t blame them–I wouldn’t want to admit I voted for Bush either.

    Nice try though John.

    Editor’s Note: Exit polling is used around the world to validate elections. International observers have said that Florida’s election polling was worse than Kazhakastan, Georgia and Venezuela.

    Comment by Joe C — 11/3/2004 @ 2:32 pm

  30. I’m not saying irregularites didn’t or will not exist at the polls. I mean if you guys really look at how the government spends our money - you’d know they were all crooks.

    By the government’s own poverty standards, how many time more than the poverty level are our elected officials making?

    Wake up guys - the enemy isn’t the extreme left or the extreme right. The enemy is right in front of you.

    But they and the media have us bickering with each other so much - we can’t see it.

    I don’t think our founding fathers had these salaries and kickbacks, medical benefits and generous retirement packages in mind when they created the country.

    And the elaborate spending doesn’t end there.

    Where was John Kerry and John Edwards both as hey were drawing salaries as US Senators?

    Bush definately had some alterior motive to go into Iraq.

    Look guys - it’s not like we were chosing between Prime Rib and Spam here.

    Let’s not bicker between Spam and Spam here. Lets look at things for how they are.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 2:39 pm

  31. Someone has to explain why in Florida the Senate exit polls were right where the Presidential miss by 7.

    Comment by Iureldas — 11/3/2004 @ 2:41 pm

  32. Lesson 1. The only rule is that there are no rules, unless the rule works in the favor of those who rule. The rule of law is a smoke screen to be used to prevent the masses from outright civil rebellion.

    Lesson 2. No one Listens, No one Cares, until it’s their time to board the train at gunpoint.

    Lesson 3. By the time you figure it out for yourself, It’s way too late to stop the train since it’s already left the station with you on it. (ask any survivor of the death camps.)

    Lesson 4. The only enemy we have are the ones we allow to exist.

    Lesson 5. See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil, only works if we allow it to work.

    Lesson 6. Trust No One, Keep Your Laser Pistol Handy, The Computer Is Your Friend. (Not, The Computer Is Doing It’s Best to Kill You. ) Motto of the role playing game “Paranoia”.

    Lesson 7. No matter what you do as an Individual, Nothing will Work, Only a Collective of Fanatics with One Purpose, One Objective will Succeed.

    Lesson 8. Everyday is just another battle in the War, You can lose every battle and still win the War.

    Lesson 9. “In Death Ground Fight!” (Sun Tzu, 800 b.c.)

    Lesson 10. Humanity will never learn from it’s history. Individuals which take the time to learn from history will always succeed in any endeavor.

    Lesson 11. “ The road to hell is paved with good intentions”

    Lesson 12. What hell is really like, is living in hell and never realizing it.

    Conclusion: Get over it, Move beyond it and keep moving. A moving target is always harder to hit or in other words the only good defense is a good offense. Never compromise on anything once you have chosen a path to walk down. “Never give up, Never surrender!” (Steve Allen movie actor).

    For the next Lesson visit: http://www.bluelemur.com/newsbone
    and read The GOP End Game series of articles.

    Comment by Stephen at News Bone — 11/3/2004 @ 2:41 pm

  33. Bush is the closest we have to a modern day dictator. I find it ironic that the most partisan administration of our time (the 1st Vice President EVER to refuse meetings with opposing party senators) is now talking about “reaching out.” The most extreme irony, however, is that a campaign about “freedom” - is about just that - taking away our personal freedoms via the supreme court.

    Comment by Emily — 11/3/2004 @ 2:42 pm

  34. “Instead of Whinning…"??? Please use that response with the next
    RAPE victim you encounter. I mean, you just need to figure out
    WHAT YOU DID WRONG which caused you to get reped.
    Thanks for the insight. Loads.

    Comment by j0shtree1 — 11/3/2004 @ 2:59 pm

  35. Time to conceed if Kerry’s conceeding. It’s admirable that Democrates always tend to play by the rules, it’s also probably why they always seem to loose. I was expecting Bush to become the next President, but I thought Kerry would at least win the election. The same incompetence will now continue to loot two countries for rich corporations. On the brighter side this will make the anti-Bush camp stronger. I’ve been saying that Bush will face a trial for his crimes if he wins this election or not, and I can now get to leave the impeach Bush link on my website. I was planning on taking that down after Kerry’s landslide victory. This just doesn’t compute. America! What the hell?!?

    Comment by Davol — 11/3/2004 @ 3:09 pm

  36. Sad day and the first time I am not proud to be an American. What a stupid uninformed majority we have.

    Comment by Don Rhodes — 11/3/2004 @ 3:12 pm

  37. Hey, can the democrats hire Karl Rove. Seems like thats the only way to win the next one…
    .. and MSNBC, CNN and door to door sales men/women!
    Screw democracy, we use a thorn to pull out a thorn.. Then we must cauterize the wound.

    Comment by Karl_Rove — 11/3/2004 @ 3:19 pm

  38. Let the first and foremost objective be the establishment of nationwide standards for voting that include adequate paper trails. Toss that test balloon up and see who salutes and, more importantly, who doesn’t - lable the latter as subversive.
    Statistically, a perfect separation in prediction accuracy between states with trails and states without trails indicates forces at work other than objective analysis with only an infintesimal probability of error.

    Comment by johns — 11/3/2004 @ 3:20 pm

  39. Great observation. This topic is too important not to publish. I’m rolling it out on the NewsTarget Network today: http://www.newstarget.com/002076.html and I welcome other related posts or analysis docs from anyone who is following up on this.

    The big story, of course, is not that the actual results don’t agree with the polls, but that they’re off by around 5% *only* in states with electronic voting machines.

    - Mike Adams, editor, NewsTarget

    Comment by Mike Adams — 11/3/2004 @ 3:21 pm

  40. Taking away our freedoms via the supreme court? To which freedoms are you referring? And is the Senate, who confirms the presidential appointee to the SC not bi-partisan?

    Modern day dictator? Do we not still have the checks and balances of the Congress and judicial system? (granted I think they all are crooks, but there is still a vechicle for opposition)

    And how did whinning get associated with a rape victom? Which is a very serious crime in our society.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 3:22 pm

  41. […] ain |


    The conspiracies begin
    |By SayUncle|

    Sorry, guys, but if your source is DU, you’ve lost me. The obvious reason is that, you know, exit polling is usele […]

    Pingback by SayUncle : The conspiracies begin — 11/3/2004 @ 3:30 pm

  42. Elections should be audited (just like company physical inventories), no matter what the results. Voters should be assured, through a percentage test of all ballots and random races that the election was valid and without fraud or error. Shame on ALL Americans for not demanding it - I fear the price we will pay is way too large for our children and descendants.

    Comment by Pam — 11/3/2004 @ 3:37 pm

  43. I’m stunned, I feel like 9/11 all over again and if anyone doesn’t believe these guys just pulled a fast one, your in denial like the most conservative christian. It’s a huge machine we’re dealing with and the only way to battle the machine is to realize we’re all in this together and we can’t be afraid, it’s not the end, we all got up this morning and do what we always do, whatever that is. Where do we go from here, ANTIWAR…we can’t forget the suffering that’s going on in our world because of these gansters, it’s not just about America , (poor us??) If we’re really pissed off and disgusted, then good, let’s put that en energy towards holding these guys accountable. We can’t stop, we owe it to everyone that believes in peace and social justice. U.S. out of Iraq!!!

    Comment by AJ — 11/3/2004 @ 3:40 pm

  44. Now it is the right time for a popular uprising, if you got balls. You’ve seen they lie. You’ve seen they wont let you win.

    Comment by Finn — 11/3/2004 @ 3:49 pm

  45. Well, you are kind of misrepresenting the election monitors article. What the observers said was that “they had less access to polls than in Kazakhstan, that the electronic voting had fewer fail-safes than in Venezuela, that the ballots were not so simple as in the Republic of Georgia and that no other country had such a complex national election system.”

    This says more about our electoral process than the outcome of this election itself.

    And exit polls are never used to *validate* elections, they are used by *some* monitors (Carter, notably) as *one indicator* of electoral fraud when the discrepancy between the exit poll and declared result is far, far, far greater than the discrepancy here.

    Comment by Joe C — 11/3/2004 @ 3:55 pm

  46. I don’t know how people who claim they love all life and that God rules their lives, and then turn around and support a president who has murdered over 1,000 American Troops, believes in capitol punishment, and illegally bombed a country that has never attacked us, murdering over 100,000 Iraqi citizens, who and has lied about so many things and let so many people down — this is not Christian at all – it’s the ultimate in hypocracy – HOW DARE ANYONE VOTE FOR THIS PRESIDENT BASED ON LIFE!

    Comment by Trish — 11/3/2004 @ 3:59 pm

  47. If we’d stop trying to explain away why the exit polls and the actual vote didn’t match ("people lied to the pollsters,” “it’s a random sample,” etc.) maybe we would see the elephant in the room and figure out how to deal with it.

    I feel quite sad for everyone who believes what they are told on TV. Today America lies on her death bed. The only way to bring her back to health and the promise – which is freedom for all of us, not just certain religious sects or financial brackets – is to begin today to build a voting system that is transparently fair and auditable.

    Today it may be the ‘Democrats’ who are marginalized. If we don’t fix this, tomorrow it may be you, and you, or you.

    Comment by Ennealogic — 11/3/2004 @ 4:03 pm

  48. stop this now. suck it up folks, we lost.

    Comment by Liberal Chris — 11/3/2004 @ 4:20 pm

  49. Standardized election is a good thing. You’d have to seperate the Federal elections from the state elections. Why would it matter if you moved within the country to vote for president? You’;d have to move local issues/elections off to a sendary ballot that was precint specific.

    We here in NC have had the optical scanners and the system has been working great with no real issues. I agree that the system needs centralized guidance.

    Good luck getting that passed though.

    But then you’ll still have people who don’t give a darn who’d take $5 from anyone to vote for whomever. You’d still have collusion where a whole precinct can tamper with the vote (yes it does happen)

    Of course, we could start making politicians accountable for thier actions. How about….. ending secret service protection of the president once he leaves office? Might give them incentive to do the right thing while they were in office?

    Did George Washington have a Secret Service? Did he have an enormous salary, retirement benefits, pension?

    You guys crack me up!

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/3/2004 @ 4:30 pm

  50. Secession anyone? The stench of this election even outweighs the 2000 election - it absolutely does NOT pass the smell test. To all you back-woods, red-state assholes - you ARE MY ENEMY! If another terrorist attack or natural disaster happens in your neck of the woods, I won’t shed one tear, or send one dollar to help you get back on your feet. You are on your own. You have declared war on everyone with differing viewpoints as your own, and you have allowed the taking over of a government body (most likely by fraudulent means), which is supposed to be of, for and by the People, to the extent that one half of this country has absolutley NO representation by its leaders. Talk about TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! I am going to do my bit to help devastate the economy of this country (to help Bush achieve his goals sooner rather than later), by pinpointing the industries, products and/or services which are exported from the Red states, and I will boycott them. Since the voters in the Red states (especially Ohio) don’t have enough sense to vote to protect their own economic interests or their children’s (or my children’s for that matter), I cannot feel any compassion whatsoever for them. You all suffer from the “holier than thou” syndrome. By the way, how many of you who voted for the ban on gay marriage based on the premise that marriage is sacred, are divorced? Or have committed adultery? Gotta love those marriage vows, you can selectively follow the ones you want. And how many of you who voted to one day ban abortion because you are a “right-to-lifer", turn your back on the fact that this President (and you, ultimately for voting him in) are jointly responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 (at last count) Iraqis (thousands of which are probably innocent children), and over 100+ executions in his five years as Texas’ Governor. Do you believe in life OR NOT! And how many of you men out there who are opposed to abortion, have had pre-marital sex in your lifetime, which may or may not have resulted in a pregnancy or two that you didn’t even know or care about? How can you be so sure that you haven’t fathered illegitimate children during your irresonsible youth? And don’t say it’s none of my business, because you Republicans have made everyone elses’ bedroom antics YOUR BUSINESS! All I can say is that RED is the appropriate color for your party (the Nazi’s used it, the Communists used it, etc., etc.). You deserve what you get!!!!

    Comment by Laura Bush — 11/3/2004 @ 4:31 pm

  51. Re: Dick Cheney’s speech

    George Bush actually stole the largest number of popular votes in history…with Diebold’s help.

    Wonder what they would do if all the millions who don’t buy into his lies claimed exempt on their tax withholding and cut off the money…refused to serve in his military empire building and just refused to acknowledge his regime? Could they build enough jails to hold 50 million people? And who would pay for his empire building then? The people who support him? That seems fair.
    It’s a nice fantasy. Certainly better than the reality of the situation.

    John Kerry has betrayed all of the people who worked so hard for him by folding so easily. Does he really think George Bush wants to bring the country together? If so, then Ralph Nader was right…Kerry is as bad as Bush and neither one of them is fit to be president.

    God help this country and the rest of the world.

    Comment by Connie — 11/3/2004 @ 4:32 pm

  52. This is so very important. If the voting process itself is corrupted the way this unbellievable set of coincidences implies, what can be done? Nothing can succeed unless the fraud is exposed and prevented. What is next in this story?

    Comment by Cat — 11/3/2004 @ 4:34 pm

  53. Civil war, anyone? I’ll bring the sandwiches and the lemonade.

    Comment by Barry — 11/3/2004 @ 4:43 pm

  54. I’m glad that I’m not the only one who suspects Republican voter fraud. When all eyes were on Ohio, and Repubs were pulling all sorts of dirty tricks to undermine voter turnout there, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that they were padding their own votes in Florida. Come on, Bush got 900,000+ more votes in Florida this time around. What accounts for that increase? Certainly not the exit polls.

    Comment by Cynical — 11/3/2004 @ 4:56 pm

  55. It is IMPERATIVE that we take a closer look at these descrepancies NOW. If we cede the point for the sake of unity and look forward to plan for results in two years… and IF the paperless voting machines are rigged but we don’t make a stink about it, two years from now MORE districts will have them and whomever is in power will remain in power for all time (and by all indications that will eternally be Republicans since they now have the power and possibly the means to keep it no matter what).

    Bush has announced that he will now AGGRESSIVELY move ahead with his agenda. This is not the talk of someone who cares about uniting the country. This is the talk of someone convinced of his own invinceability. This may well have literally been a coup and we owe it to the people of America to make sure that is not the case.

    What can we do to press this point?

    We are vetting the story with a major national publication. If the story holds water, it will get national press. If the AP/NEP has a reasonable explanation for why they changed their exits (even probably if it seems to us to be bogus) it probably will not.

    Comment by CarolD — 11/3/2004 @ 4:57 pm

  56. First of all, it sickens me that there hasn’t been a peep from the ‘liberal’ (yeah, right!) media about the very real possibility of voter fraud in this election. No-one wants to remember that the man who created the unholy electronic voting booth is a huge Bush backer and doner. No one wants to look at the accuracy of past exit polls in LOTS of elections and question why they are so out of whack here. And, of couurse, no one wants to question how a moron like W could be elected president…twice…well, at least once….I mean, this guy got into Yale because of his daddy, almost flunked out, destroyed several companies, lives in the pockets of Saudi oil companies, and even managed to make Texas a worse state than it already was.

    By the way, cc to Scott Fortman, your weak and sniveling and apologist attitude is why the Democratic party is failing so horribly. Sometimes, you have to go out and fight for what you believe in. Just because there are accusations of fraud or other things which, 4 years ago, would have been almost inconceivable in American politics, doesn’t mean that this is some sort of conspiracy theory against W. It is a very real possibility that W and his crew cheated to win this election (remember 4 years ago?). Don’t go off the deep end because someone recommended Bush’s Brain as a good film to watch. I’m not saying that the film is 100% accurate (having not fact-checked it myself) but it does give food for thought, and it can get people excited. Not only do the Democrats need that desperately, but so does our country.

    Comment by Joe O’Connor — 11/3/2004 @ 5:15 pm

  57. Hmmm…I think that I might have to ake to the streets soon here if I don’t see a REAL independent investigation into what happened yesterday as per the exit polls vs ‘results.’ Just as long as the investigating team isn’t another Republican lackey (like most independent investigations in this country for the last 4 years). Failing that, I’m abandoning ship and moving to another country. I am so sad to call myself an American today.

    Comment by Joe O\\\’Connor — 11/3/2004 @ 5:26 pm

  58. Well, of course the election was rigged. Up here in Canada, and the rest of the democratic world, we use paper ballots. We put an X next to the candidate we vote for. Then a human counts the votes in front of representatives from the political parties. Then we know how many votes went each way, and we can check if necessary.

    Optical scan? E-Voting? The only reason anyone’d have that is SO THEY COULD RIG THE ELECTIONS. Why is this such a surprise?

    Move on up here, folks! The weather’s nice on the West Coast, our elections work, we have free health care, we don’t care who marries who, and nobody shoots each other.

    Comment by Glacial — 11/3/2004 @ 5:30 pm

  59. Before all of you Republican fascists get up in arms about Democrats crying foul in this election, it is worth keeping in mind that the only two Presidential election I am aware of in which exit polls have proven completely out of whack with actual results are in elections for George “W"uss Bush. Hmmmm. If the tables were turned, the far right radio stations would be abuzz. I think as the old adage goes, if you lie big enough, people will believe you. Well maybe if you cheat big enough, people will never doubt the result.

    The good news for Democrats is that we can look forward to more carnage, bloodshed, terror attacks, and MASSIVE deficits on Bush’s watch. The most irresponsible party in history can blame no one but themselves for these results.

    Comment by Doug — 11/3/2004 @ 5:38 pm

  60. Speaking from ‘the rest of the world’….we think you guys are NUTS!!!!!??….how could you re-elect such a dangerous incompetent? …or did he steal it…? It would be nice to think the fix was in …because then we wouldn’t have to think you’re all NUTS!!!! Time to read up on Nixon…..the next four years should be unfortunately entertaining.

    Comment by rest of the world — 11/3/2004 @ 5:57 pm

  61. I think it’s time for another revolution….our government is leading the way to our death…..hide and watch….oh well, america was nice while it lasted….this country deserves everything it tries to dish out in return from any other country…..eye for an eye sort of speak.

    Over the next four years, watch Bush choke on what he thinks he can chew

    Comment by formeramerican — 11/3/2004 @ 6:02 pm

  62. The whole idea of counting votes electronically without a voter-verified paper trail borders on insanity. Please support the efforts at blackboxvoting.org if you agree that we need to see what happened in this election. Bev Harris is conducting Freedom of Information requests to 3000 counties. Note that the address is blackboxvoting.org, not .com.

    Comment by Frank Hardisty — 11/3/2004 @ 6:12 pm

  63. How can we trust Diebold machines when its CEO is a partisan and contributed to Bush campaign? There is no transparency in e-voting if neutral observers are not allowed to inspect the machines and the software.

    Comment by Environment comes first — 11/3/2004 @ 6:20 pm

  64. God help us all now. If we were scared before, we should be terrified now at the damage that will be done in the next 4 years. It will take decades to recover. WHAT WERE PEOPLE THINKING??? NOT!

    Comment by Karen — 11/3/2004 @ 6:21 pm

  65. Hey, Fartman
    WTF?! Quit stinkin’ up the joint.
    Logic. Study it. Then you will be able to understand what the
    comparison actually is. Or do you INTEND to misdirect?
    The latter appears more likely.

    Comment by j0shtree1 — 11/3/2004 @ 6:26 pm

  66. Thank God for Blue Lemur! No one else will talk about this.

    Even intelligent Republicans realize Bush stole yet another election. How on earth he hopes to govern a nation that didn’t vote for him in the first place suggests extremely scary, Draconian scenarios.

    Comment by Melody — 11/3/2004 @ 6:34 pm

  67. I am covering this issue on my own site, and I must disagree with those who say that, in so-called “third world” elections, international observers note only a very large disparity between exit polls and electronic vote tallies.

    The electoral college system places the United States in an unusual situation. Here, a rather subtle reconfiguration of the vote in only a handful of states can change the election.

    The “false positive” exit polls need not be massive to arouse legitimate suspicion. They need mere be systemic. Pattern indicates fraud.

    We have such a pattern here in the United States. In two successive presidential elections, virtually all the false positives to crop up during exit polls indicated a Democratic win. If the disparity occurred by chance, then Republicans would get false positives about half the time.

    If you want to blame the disparity on absentee ballots (which used to favor Republicans but which are now distributed more equitably), then you still have to account for the fact that in states with an e-vote verified by a paper trail, the exit polls mirrored the final results.

    The pattern is so pervasive as to exclude the possibility of coincidence.

    Comment by Joseph Cannon — 11/3/2004 @ 6:42 pm

  68. The GOP has had 4 years of power in all branches of government, yet refused to put in reforms in the election process. What are the chances the GOP will in the next 4 years?
    We need a federal election system with actual identity verification. Other nations have them. Its crazy that we have such a balkanized system where it don’t have 1 presidential election, we have 51 of them, all run by different groups of people. Talk about the formula for disaster, and we do it every 4 years!

    I’m sure the GOP will howl and demand such reforms (not to mention eliminating the Electoral College), if the trend starts moving against them in the future.

    Comment by Steve Savage — 11/3/2004 @ 6:46 pm

  69. I am amazed at the denial I find in the people around me when I mention the discrepencies in the exit polling between paper ballot states and evoting states. People just do not want to believe, or be told about, the possibility that the election could be rigged in such a way. It strips them of their last delusion about their vote actually being meaningful.

    Comment by John Hamilton — 11/3/2004 @ 7:08 pm

  70. This was the biggest stagged election in history. Who cares. They both are for open borders, big goverment, id cards, don’t you people get it. Your a bunch of sheeople. They are taking away our rights more and more everyday in the name of security. America will give up her liberty for security. Then they can user in the new world order……… wake up..

    Comment by matt — 11/3/2004 @ 7:31 pm

  71. For the record, Minnesota has a paper trail. We have the multiple choice, SAT, fill out the ovals kind of ballot in most polling locations.

    Comment by Steve Nelson — 11/3/2004 @ 7:38 pm

  72. About the same time Kerry was conceding the election in a speech on Nov 3, an odd thing happened. An “Omen” perhaps? On the Red subway line in Washington DC, at 12:49pm, 2 subway trains came to a head on collision at one of the stations.This occured while Kerry was just about to give his speech. If you ask me, I’d say America, like that train, is heading in the wrong direction and Democracy has been derailed once again. Oh, I just can’t wait until America plunges into a economic Depression by the time Bush is done chewing up and spitting out this country, then I can finally where my T-Shirt, “Don’t blame me, I voted for Kerry.”

    Comment by BA Baracus — 11/3/2004 @ 8:02 pm

  73. You’ve probably heard this before….
    The only poll that counts is the one in the election booth.
    But otherwise, the actual results matched pretty closely the polls taken before, certainly within statistical uncertainty.

    Exit polls are unscientific, IMO. If someone asked me how I voted, I would tell them “NONE OF YOUR DAM BUSINESS” I know people who would say that they would LIE. And they are totally non-random. A statistician would laugh at them.

    Get mad at something in the real world, if you want.

    Comment by hello — 11/3/2004 @ 8:08 pm

  74. SUCKERS !

    Comment by youngwithafuture — 11/3/2004 @ 8:16 pm

  75. America got Diebolded and many Americans have been too inoculated with the propaganda of America being the “greatest democracy in the world” to even see it.

    Comment by Lawrence — 11/3/2004 @ 10:30 pm

  76. Anyone who thinks this election was won fair and square needs to get their heads examined. I always said that the only way Bush will win is to cheat- and that’s exactly what he did.
    I think Kerry conceeded because he knew that he couldn’t fight voting machines that were rigged from the start ( Florida, Ohio, South Dakota, Nevada, New Mexcio). Also, he would have had to fight a very hostile House and Senate.
    I have a teenage son who will be ripe for the upcoming draft. I am also old enough to remember Viet Nam and I know what had to be done to be a conscience objector- write, speak to anyone who will listen that you are a pacifist and don’t believe in war, join the Quakers or Buddists and be active in promoting peace activities- leave a “paper trail” so that when the time comes, people can verify your beliefs of being anti war due to religion.
    We have to keep screaming and fighting and the senate has to spend the next 2 years filabustering everything!

    Comment by cathy law — 11/3/2004 @ 10:42 pm

  77. This is from a site called trackingterrorism.com……and you thought we are pissed about the election outcome…..wonder what action if any Bush will take with this news or once again just wait until an aid whispers in his ear again……here’s the msg

    An Insurgent on a popular Islamic Website is reporting that he has received an email indicating a severe and grave threat to the United States. He then posts the email he received and asks for other Mujahideen’s opinion on the letter.

    The letter contains ominous statements such as “We will totally destroy every state that votes for Bush", “All of you Americans will be giving us reason to destroy you, by re-electing Bush into office", “Our weapons will reach each and every house in the United States, our threat is very very serious.”

    Comment by formeramerican — 11/3/2004 @ 10:52 pm

  78. The numbers that have been collected would seem to be impossible without fraudulent intervention to produce them. At this point a PROFESSIONAL STATISTICIAN needs to be brought into this to calculate the odds of such a distribution occurring in an honest election are. That’s a step that can be taken even if they have covered their tracks in and out of the voting machines.

    This situation is crying out for an aggressive investigation. But even if that proves impossible to implement, we still must understand how this underscores how it is ABOLUTELY VITAL TO PUSH UNFLINCHINGLY FOR ELECTION REFORM. If the election process itself is corrupted, all our plans will go nowhere and the neocons will continue their disastrous policies without effective opposition. The Electoral College system is another story; for now there MUST BE A VERIFIABLE PAPER TRAIL for each vote and the readiness to use it to certify results.

    Comment by Cat — 11/3/2004 @ 11:06 pm

  79. would those who voted for Bush care to explain to our boys in Iraq who are getting their a..ses shot off why you voted the way you did? I bet they’d like to know!

    Comment by mom — 11/3/2004 @ 11:10 pm

  80. All Kerry voters need to realize that he gave up way too early. There were so many voting irregularities and intimidation tactics, then Kerry just gives up? Why the f*ck doesn’t he care as much about saving our country as we do? because he’s a phony- this whole skull and boner staged election was all a setup to give bush a ‘mandate’ for more wars and gov’t spying.

    If you voted for kerry it’s because you fell for the Anybody But Bush bullshit. He was a setup, a scam all the way as many of us have been trying to warn the ABB sheep all year. We need you kerry voters to realize we’ve been scammed, when these people wake up then we will have the opportunity for some real action.

    check out blackboxvoting.org - they are uncovering the election fraud… prediction- next terrorist attack hits soon then we’ll be forced to forget about counting all the votes in the name of unity… remember that one- “you’re with us or against us”

    Comment by visitor of blackboxvoting.org — 11/3/2004 @ 11:35 pm

  81. Let’s face it folks - the reason these atrocities occur is because the vast majority of the American people (Democrats and Replublicans) base their political decisions on ’sound bites’ from the evening news and the USA Today. They don’t have a clue as to the real position of either candidate. I watched so many post-election interviews with Bush voters who had absolutely no sense of the issues and supported him for the stupidest reasons.

    The other thing that is so frustrating is the partisan rhetoric (vastly Republican). I am so tired of people having no qualms with exaggeration or outright lying just to support their candidate’s advancement.

    I voted for Kerry. I was not sure of his capabilities but I certainly knew of Bush’s - and am sure four more years of this administration’s neo-conservativism is going to take a serious toll on our nation.

    Bush supporters point to the fact that since 9/11 the President’s offensive approach has made us safer here, witnessing that there have been no further attacks on our soil. I think these folks should remember that 9/11 was over 15 years in the planning. We’re not safer - they’re just reloading.

    Comment by Chenz — 11/3/2004 @ 11:49 pm

  82. What if the electronic voting machines were programmed to flip every fifth vote for Kerry to Bush? Then that would be an explanation for the discrepancy in the exit polls and for some of the anecdotal evidence about peope who voted Kerry but saw the machine come up Bush.

    I think the election was fixed.

    Comment by Rick R — 11/3/2004 @ 11:52 pm

  83. Time to dig a little deeper. A paper trail isnt the only way to look into this. If there is something there it will come out, but will people pay attention?

    Comment by CD — 11/3/2004 @ 11:59 pm

  84. Hopefully the ‘Rapture’ will happen in the next year or two and all the Evangelical Christians will be swept up to Heaven… And then the world will be a place with just us heathens… Wouldn’t that be wonderful… just Imagine….

    IMAGINE…

    Imagine there’s no heaven,
    It’s easy if you try,
    No hell below us,
    Above us only sky,
    Imagine all the people
    living for today…

    If you’re one of the Evangelicals make sure you’re Rapture Ready

    http://www.raptureready.com/

    Comment by Scott — 11/4/2004 @ 12:08 am

  85. I would just like to say thanks to our President for ripping us off a second time. Thanks for not providing enough ballots in Ohio, thanks for the disenfranchisement of African Americans across the nation, thanks for forcing your religious beliefs on the most diverse nation in the world, thanks for drafting our brothers and sisters into a war that half the nation opposes.

    since when was 51% considered true majority? This is a sad day for freedom and democracy.
    I no longer consider myself an american.

    Comment by Lily Johnson, Davis Ca. — 11/4/2004 @ 12:13 am

  86. A sad yet sincere hope: what about the 9-11 commission report? I read somewhere that the Bush administration had withheld and hidden it because of its “incriminating content” which might hurt them in the upcoming election. Well, it’s time. There is no excuse. I think the time has come to demand the report.

    I’m calling for impeachment. Just give us verifiable ammunition. Surely SOMEONE has enough power to dig up the dirt on this jerk and throw it back in his face.

    Afterall, we ARE fighting an unConstitutional war.

    The saddest part is that Bush has turned us against each other. It was him and his administration that has told us all along that if we do not agree with him and the war we are un-American and un-patriotic.

    Be American– we started this country fighting for our rights. Have we forgotten them all?

    Demand the truth about the election, the war, and all the other BS this stupid frat boy is feeding us.

    Comment by MovingToCanada — 11/4/2004 @ 12:17 am

  87. Oh, please. Bush won a majority of the popular vote. Gore never did that; EVEN CLINTON never did that.

    The man won fair and square. AND DECISIVE.

    In fact the blue states were “squeakers” but the red states were blowouts.

    This election proves that the Dems are not a national party. The true progressives (and Jack Kemp will love this) are the Republicans. The GOP is the party of new ideas, of individual effort, of personal responsibility.

    The Democrat Party is dead in America. Its only remnant is its solcialist wing. If you remaining Dems were honest, you would admit that and build on your philosophy.

    Comment by DaveJ — 11/4/2004 @ 12:20 am

  88. Hey dummies of America, makers of the voting machines are solid Bush supporters, no one is demanding a paper ballot so they can do whatever they want! Get it? Dubya’s business partner is a bin Laden and dad’s employers are bin Ladens. The big, bad boogey man (an A-rab) appeared in crystal clear color to scare you and your precious too many offspring… David Bowie said it best for me: “I’m afraid of Americans, I’m afraid of the world.”

    Comment by Ninten12 — 11/4/2004 @ 12:27 am

  89. Sorry for the length of this post. It contains my detailed response to someone else’s message on the topic of vote fraud.

    I’ve copied that message, “Taking a Second Look at the Results…” below my response.

    I think we should make sure that the facts are really what the lone person at bluelemur claims. I read his account but as far as I can tell he provides no evidence for what he says. It should be easy enough to check his claims as well as easy enough to check whether states with paperless evoting had suspicious results only in evoting precincts.

    What needs to be checked are:

    1. His accusation that exit polls were really in such close agreement with final results in all states with paper trails. Or maybe he only looked at states with paper trails that were also considered swing states. All states should be looked at to get a larger data size. Of course, swing states are of most interest.

    2. His accusation that only in swing states (or all states?) with paperless evoting were there large discrepancies between exit polls and final counts. And, even more suspicious was that he claims they were ALL in the direction of favoring Bush.

    3. It would also be helpful to check the historical accuracy of exit polls. This should be done not just for the 2000 election, but for all elections and for all states. Best would be an analysis precinct by precinct. There are a lot of assumptions, corrections, and outside data that apparently go into exit poll predictions and it would be best to get an understanding of these.

    4. Based on 3. above, I would be very interested on what Zogby says about what happens. Zogby has a financial interest in being correct. If he was not correct, and he can explain why, that is to his benefit. Of course, he may be enough part of the establishment that he doesn’t want to rock the boat.

    5. Finally, and most important, it is easy to check the theory. Assuming the Repubs decided to concentrate their cheating in Florida and Ohio with paperless evoting machines and were not able to find other means of cheating with paper ballots … then it should be possible to find some voting precincts in these states where evoting was in place and simultaneously exit polling was conducted. Of course, if the Repubs were sly they could have carefully avoided changing the vote at those precincts where they knew exit polling was planned. I wouldn’t be surprised if anyone could have found out which precincts were planned for exit polling. I believe they use the same precincts year after year so that they can base their projections on historical analysis. Also, from what I read on CNN, the exit polling in most states consists of about 1000 interviews per state. That’s a lot more than regular national polls, but it still probably means there are only a dozen or so precincts per state where exit polls are conducted. A smart sleazer would not change the vote in those precincts but would target all the other precincts of which there are hundreds if not thousands per state. If this is the case, then the analysis would have to be more subtle and indirect. One would have to compare the historical trends of vote counts in precincts with exit polling to those without. If the exit polled precincts in Ohio and Florida all followed historical patterns of voting, but many non-exit polled precincts which had paperless evoting showed unusual large shifts to Republican (by 10% or more), then that would be highly indicative that things were rigged. Note that the shifts would have to be large because I believe in both Ohio and Florida, of the total voting methods for all precincts, only half the precincts or less used paperless evoting. To get the 5% win in Florida those precincts would have to cheat by 10%. Again, “controls” should be run on all the other states, precinct by precinct. It’s a big job, but maybe someone like Greg Palast will take it on, or maybe one of the anti-paperless evoting organizations.

    Note that this analysis hinges on two assumptions:

    1.) That Republicans could pretty much alter the paperless evote at will.

    and

    2.) Republicans were not able to alter the paper trail votes or decided that would be too risky in swing states.

    I personally believe assumption 1 is very plausible. When every dimes worth of candy transaction at any store in America offers you a paper receipt, it is highly suspicious that so many evoting machines have omitted this most basic of safeguards. Of course, if it’s so easy for Republicans to tamper with evoting, one should ask whether Democrats can also tamper with evoting. Are Dems so stupid that they haven’t tried to do this or are they so honest, gullible, or complicit that they haven’t raised it as an issue?

    As for assumption 2., I think there is plenty of historical evidence that paper ballots are tampered with all the time. Look up Lyndon Johnson in Texas and Mayor Daley in Chicago. Nevertheless, these precedents for vote tampering actually make assumption 1 all the more plausible. Given the chance, politicians have tampered with voting in the past, and paperless evoting makes it all the easier and more difficult to trace. The temptation must be irrisistable! And why risk getting caught with paper tampering when you can do it in a much less traceable manner.

    Note that I was unable to go to the original message poster at Democracy Underground so I have no idea what even the web name is of the poster. That doesn’t give a lot of confidence. Anyone can claim anything on the web.

    In conclusion, I think the bluelemur person raises excellent questions, but I hope someone will put the work into confirming his suspicions. It shouldn’t be too hard to do using publicly available numbers from exit polling and from actual “counted” votes.

    Let me know what you think of these ideas…

    Suspicious

    P.S. Several people have proposed that an effective and efficient way to counter vote tampering is to conduct RANDOM spot checks on a certain percentage of precincts. Paper trails would be required of course. The checkers, composed of people from ALL parties, and hopefully anyone else like any media or citizens who desired, would go to randomly selected polling places and have access to all the paper ballots immediately after results were sent and made public at the central county tabulating office. They would then conduct their own public hand count of the ballots and see how closely it conformed with the tabulated results reported at the central county office. Of course, all voters would have to be clearly warned to check to see that their paper receipt from emachines corresponded to what they intended. And poll watchers from all interested groups would have to be in attendance all day long at the polling place to make sure all paper ballots and receipts were kept secure. This isn’t quite as good as having all paper ballots publicly counted by hand, but it should be good enough and allow for a fairly good way of capturing fraud for national and statewide positions.

    ———————————————————————–
    ———————————————————————–
    Taking a Second Look at the Results…

    Hey People,

    I think there is ample reason to think that the election was stolen right from under us last night. Here’s why:

    Up til early evening, the Exit Polling had Kerry winning in ALL swing states, including Florida and Ohio, and had him winning in the national vote as well. The data was convincing enough to lead John Zogby, one of the most accurate and respected pollsters, to predict at 5 pm that John Kerry was going to win the election with 311 electoral votes.

    However, despite an excellent historic track record (minus Florida 2000) for being correct, the Exit Polls were later contradicted by the “official” results in a number – but not all  - states.

    Interestingly, ALL, let me repeat the word, ALL, discrepancies between Exit Polling and the Official Results, favored Bush. See: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

    And, guess what?

    The only swing states which Bush lost where the Exit Polls were accurate (New Hampshire & Nevada), were also the ONLY swing states where PAPER BALLOTS were REQUIRED for every ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINE.

    As some of you may know, most electronic voting machines produce no paper record of the vote, so, once the election is over, there is no way (besides exit polling) to verify if the computer’s tally is accurate or not

    With that said, I think there needs to be an investigation as to whether the electronic voting machines had anything to do with the divergence between exit poll data and the official results. Of course, there is no way to go back and verify the accuracy of the electronic voting machines (because of the lack of paper trail).

    Finally, for those skeptical that these electronic machines could be manipulated for partisan means, please read the following, disgusting report from the Washington Post: http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm#appendix3

    Check out the following as well: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

    Finally, let me note the following:

    Exit polling was designed to prevent fraud – and is widely used around the world for this purpose.

    Sadly, however, exit polling is now getting a black eye from the US media, as the media blamed it for incorrectly predicting Gore winning Florida in 2000 (of course, Gore did win), and is now being blamed for faulty predictions yesterday. See: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/10083854.htm

    Thus, it appears the days of the media trusting exit polls are numbered. Without exit polling, we can literally say bye-bye to democracy.

    Bush/Orwell 2004!
    Cynic

    p.s. For more info on Electronic Voting, see: http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

    ####

    Links of Interest:

    1) Early Exit Poll Data Showed Kerry Winning in ALL Swing States

    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/US_Elections/0,,2-10-1665_1614915,00.html
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/2/190123.shtml

    2) Media’s Explanation of Discrepancy: Exit Polling no longer reliable

    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/10083854.htm

    3) Alternative  Explanation: Fraud

    http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

    4) Precedent of Fraud (favoring Bush in Florida 2000) with Electronic Voting:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm

    5) Evidence of Republican Partisanship among Owners of Electronic Voting Systems:

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

    Comment by Suspicious — 11/4/2004 @ 12:53 am

  90. I think that many of the there’s-something-wrong-here comments above are insighful and accurate, but they lake the larger perspective of what is fully going on.

    It is not merely this election that is rigged. The 2000 and 2002 and 2004 elections are merely putting the correct actors on stage for the main play. These elections are minor means to a incredibly huge end, a far bigger end than what you might currently imagine, an end which justifies vote-fraud means, even justifying the risk of getting caught committing vote fraud on a grand scale. There are people who are the bosses of the President. The Neoconservative cabal who serve as the puppetmasters of this administration are the most visible people representing those in charge.

    This election is nothing compared to what is to come. The ever-widening wars in Afganistan and Iraq are nothing compared to what is to come. In a nutshell, the DoD and CIA have taken control and the Neoconservatives control the DoD and CIA and the Übermensch control the Neoconservative cabal. We are in a massive PsyOps operation conducted inwardly within the borders of the USA. It is the most potent propaganda operation conducted since Nazi Germany (and thus all comparisons to German fascism are in order and quite insightful/foresightful). What is the end-game? Why conduct this massive amount of prepration and penetration of the American levers of power?

    See http://www.LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net. The fossil fuels are running out, especially considering that China and India and portions of the 3rd world are industrializing in a major way, which makes the fossil fuels run out even sooner. See http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/2003/so03/so03kelley.html . There is a massive secret research effort to develop genotype-based bioweaponry at top-secret BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities ran by the Department of *Energy* to avoid treaties that supposedly govern only DoD according the Bush/Cheney/Neoconservative-cabal administration. These two topics intersect. To solve the fossil-fuel shortage, there are two over-arching techniques: 1) increase available energy supply either by alternative fuels or conservation or 2) decrease demand (and I ain’t talkin’ conservation here).

    Some estimates are that the world’s supply of petroleum and coal and natural gas support a food-supply system of less than, say, 1 billion people long term, instead of the current 6.5+ billion world population. To reduce energy demand, the solution for which we are being prepared is to reduce world population to, say, less than 1 billion. That is where the genotype-based (e.g., race-based) bioweaponry comes in. The predominantly-white Christians in North America (and a few sick-minded allies of similar racial make-up) develop bioweaponry that slaughter all of the other races worldwide. Thus the remaining surviving one billion would have a sufficient fossil fuel supply to live comfortably for the long term. Oh, by the way, before the slaughter, roll the tanks into all petroleum-rich/natural-gas-rich countries, especially in the Middle East. (Iraq really is all about the oil, but on a grander scale that what most peace protesters realize than simple corporate greed.) The tanks will continue to roll into Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the like.

    As an added benefit, if the remaining/surviving one billion white people just all happened to believe in religions that are on the approved list (e.g., evangelical protestant Christianity, Judaism, perhaps Catholic Christianity), then the proverbial two birds are killed with one stone. Not only does one solve the fossil-fuel shortage problem, one also gets rid of all of the pesky competing religions: a win for the surviving humanity and a win for spreading Christianity to possibly 100% of the survivors.

    Time is running out for execution of this plan in multiple ways. Peak Oil is probably occurring right now as various oil fields are becoming fatigued and new oil fields are few in number or quantity by comparison. Plus industrialization of China, southeast Asia, and India is quite apparent to the bosses of the President of the USA; additional demand siphoning off precious fossil fuels away from North America is unwelcome. Furthermore, the use of the dollar as the worldwide reserve (instead of gold in a former day) is under direct threat, especially regarding the monetary unit in which petroleum is denominated worldwide. The post-WWII American Era of benevolent world (friendly) influence is waning (before W ever came along). (There is only so many decades of world influence that winning WWII and Levis and Coke and Pepsi and Hollywood can buy over the long term.) The deadline for enacting this plan is fast approaching and the Übermensch bosses of the President know this quite well. That is why they are so blatant, to the point of being sloppy in the way the numbers don’t all jibe in this 2004 election, to the point of almost getting caught. The risk of getting caught is justified by the end-goal.

    This grand scheme so incredibly eclipses anything that grass-roots democracy can handle, resist, influence, deflect, or undermine. Perhaps there are techniques of resisting. Getting the truth out is one of those ways.

    Comment by Übermensch — 11/4/2004 @ 12:54 am

  91. One way to make almost everybody happy would be for all the northeastern states from NY, NJ and PA on up, plus all the Pacific Coast states, to secede from the USA and petition Ottawa for the privilege of becoming part of Canada. We in the blue states would get free health care, French teachers who lost their jobs because of the underfunding of NCLB would find work, Canada would get eight major league baseball teams to make up for losing the Expos, and for most of the major ports and financial centers in North America (Boston, NYC, LA, San Francisco), going over to Canada would tip the balance of power in the Western Hemisphere. As for the new, oddly phallic-shaped USA, it will sink into economic depression, but that’s OK because the people of those states only care about Moral and Spiritual issues.

    Comment by James McCaffery — 11/4/2004 @ 1:14 am

  92. History will judge us harshly - and well it should. After four years of the most blatant and obvious subterfuge to do nothing but amass power (for a second term via fraud or other means), live out fantasies of being macho (after dodging the draft), and play chess with real lives (starting a war they had an itch to fight despite no justification).

    Comment by history — 11/4/2004 @ 2:34 am

  93. Just how can we prove anything? The software can be written to self-destruct its source code so as to be completely untraceable. Is there a way to get our hands on an actual machine - by hook or by crook - so we can examine it? Someone should do it and a study should be done. I’m not given to conspiracy theories but this fraud is so easy to undertake, it would seem almost be wrong and irresponsible not to do it, given the committments made by the CEO of Diebold in Ohio and Jeb Bush in Florida to “deliver” the vote. What the hell kind of promise is that in a democracy???

    Comment by robot — 11/4/2004 @ 2:41 am

  94. Any sites with exit polling data per state broken down by time, and also with the “final vote"? Plus voting method/machine used. That would be a good place to start…

    Comment by wantsfacts — 11/4/2004 @ 2:49 am

  95. 70% votes of ‘christians’ based on ‘faith’ issues. Now that’s what I call a theocracy! Well done!

    Ha-ha.

    “Moral issues! What is more immoral than believing that your morality is the right one? What is more immoral than attempting to impose your morality on others? What do you call the invasion of a country for oil and empire—and the killing of 100,000 innocents? Benevolence?”
    source http://www.rense.com/general59/terroristsinthevotingbooth.htm

    In every refusal to hear another side of the story there is a certain amount of pure, concentrate evil.

    Type your favorite “truth” with the word ‘fraud’ or ‘lie’ in a search engine and see if you can take the most insiduous thing called ‘knowledge’. Be warned though - or very drunk or on drugs: there’s no delete button in the mind.

    Comment by int obs — 11/4/2004 @ 3:01 am

  96. it seems the Majority people i talked with at work, store, online even on this website message board they all oppose bush. all these people come from all walks of life. and if this is the case then Kerry should have clearly won. which leads me to believe that the election was rigged. i cant believe that kerry didn’t contest the controversy. he is a fellow skull member, this may be the reason he conceded TOO early. that is pathetic if kerry put his frat house pledge before this nation. it’s pretty scary too. anyways i believe this nation is headed to path of destruction. sponsored by the “commaner and chief". let me ask you something isnt a bunch of crap with all the problems in the USA right now, none the left wingers never, i mean nver attribute bush to the social ills, economy, SS, etc… whenever i turned on the radio i would hear rush Limball talk about clinton. CLINTON.! the guy has been out of office for 4 years.! bush’s supporters can only beat on a dead horse. and yes bush is a hypocrite. he talks about moral values and right to live. then KILLS INNNOCENT CHILDREN and MOTHERS in iraq. then turns around and says “praise god". i believe in the Lord too but i dont carry an AK with me. what happend to trusting the Lord? i am sick with this. i will be graduating next spring with a degree in Computers, but with all the outsourcing i could be looking at another major unless junior does serious harm to this country. after 4 years he’ll have to go then cheney would be next, can you all imagine cheney as the next president? dont laugh, junior just pulled off another heist. with the way things are going this could be a serious reality.

    Comment by Tiredwithit — 11/4/2004 @ 3:06 am

  97. If I would have known that John Kerry

    was going to concede (let’s call it what it really is, QUITING)

    before all the votes were counted, I would have never voted for

    him.

    Come on John…………………

    Let’s at least let democracy run it course!!!!!

    Comment by Former Kerry Supporter — 11/4/2004 @ 3:14 am

  98. Give it time friends. The world is on our side.

    Every time, they will have to go farther. Every time, they will have to cheat more to stay ahead. Every time, they will have to tell bigger lies.

    The body-count will continue to rise.

    The neo-cons cannot repeat the shock of 9/11, to rescue their regime again. Even another major terrorist attack will not have the same impact now.

    They will go too far. It is in their nature.

    Nixon too, was elected to a second term. It was in his second term that he earned his disgrace. The people grew wiser, and turned against him.

    Comment by jc — 11/4/2004 @ 3:27 am

  99. I’m glad I’m not the only one who witnessed (and recognized) this. I’ve been saying for years that the paperless machines were going to steal this election. It was So obvious. It’s not just the fact that the machines had no paper trail and no security in them. That would just make it possible and untrustworthy, which they were. It is the fact that the Republicans Vehemently opposed tooth and nail against all demand and complaints for a paper trial, when there was ZERO rationalization for not doing it. There was no rational argument why a paper trail would be bad (except for rigging an election). There were no Pros and Cons to having a paper trail verified by the voters. There were Only Pros to it (except for rigging an election). So many people tried to fight against it and demand a paper trail in them. What was the big deal about not providing one? What about it was worth fighting against so vehemently by them except for Rigging?

    Only thieves and Criminals don’t want a paper trail. Right there it is a direct evidence of guilt. Innocent people have nothing to hide - PERIOD!

    Then with the unsecured and easily hackable computers? That was easy to make secure as well. Yet they choose on Purpose to leave them unsecured. Designed in such a manner.

    I was screaming inside last night about the huge difference in the exit polls and *reported* results. I don’t think that has Ever happened in Any U.S. Election! As soon as they called Florida so quickly and I saw how large the margin of victory was there compared to last time, I knew it was fixed.

    Yes, without a full investigation and verifiable evidence in hand it is still just a “theory", but it is a darn sensible one. In fact it is the only one that Does make sense of this sham! The AP - was also Partisan Conservatives. The man with 46% approval rating, a rating that predicted the loss of re-election for every Other incumbent in the entire History of the United States, instead gets the most Votes out of any President in the History of United States? Yeah right. I know there are the religious right out there in the South that think he is as close to Jesus as they come. But, they are Not the majority of the voting population! The majority of the population is liberal, period. And they would never vote for this idiot! It is like when a horrible bad grade and low IQ student (such as Bush) all of a sudden does the best on a test (100%) then any other student has ever gotten on that test before. Wouldn’t that give a little suspicion that they just *might* have cheated? Based solely on the fact that they did *too* well! It might of been a little more believable if the results were much closer. It was a dead heat until results time….

    We are in a dictatorship now! Un-believable.

    Welcome to Dumb-ocracy American style!

    Comment by another witness — 11/4/2004 @ 3:32 am

  100. It dawned on me tonight why the media is so silent about the possibility of voter fraud - if it appears to be a clean, decisive victory, they are redeemed from 2000. Why would they want to rock the boat, and again show themselves as the incompetents that they are?

    Comment by Laura Bush — 11/4/2004 @ 3:36 am

  101. Easy way to Detect Fraud in the Final vote count.

    Find a heavily Republican county. Find out the number on the eligible voter Rolls. Find out how many votes the machines gave out. If fraud was pervasive…….I assume count was higher in republican counties.

    Find a democratic county. Find out the number on the rolls, find out how many voted. Probably you’ll get an under count. ….. something you can’t prove involved fraud.

    I think if there is systematic fraud, you should look at heavily republican states and look for an OVERcount. If there is an Overcount in even ONE county, that will amplify the minor voices who are suspicious of fraud into the national press. Now that will get the appropriate response to get in and be able to pull apart and study the Diebold machines that are in question in the states in play.

    Comment by Max H — 11/4/2004 @ 5:09 am

  102. […] General News Voter Fraud — Advena @ 3:06 pm

    From Raw Story’s blog The Blue Lemur: An analysis of the original AP exit polling, which showed Kerry with a tighter margin a […]

    Pingback by 12thharmonic Blog » More info on Exit Polls — 11/4/2004 @ 5:10 am

  103. Another interesting tidbit. How could the Evangelical vote that makes up 30% of the votes account so dramatically?

    I suggest an intentional Overcount by the Diebold machines. It’s interesting that the key swing states removed the requirement for a paper trail for the machines.

    Recall that the press was reporting that the GOP polls ITSELF gave Kerry the lead in FL. Not only the GOP internal polls, but also the DNC polls and the pollsters themselves all polled for Kerry.

    GOP wins ONLY by and OVERcount in the Republican counties and an UNDERcount in the Democratic counties.

    The ramifications are greater than this election, since these same machines will be used to elect the State Legislatures who draw the voting districts. Therefore if these machines can elect Republican legislatures, who give republican candidates the advantage by breaking up the democratic population and dispersing into conservative counties.

    I’d like to see if there was an overcount in the Senate race in FL that favored the GOP candidate.

    Comment by Max H — 11/4/2004 @ 5:33 am

  104. A statistician needs to look into this. If it is true that the deviations between exit polls and actual votes were significantly greater in states with electronic voting and that is consistent across the board, that would be truly extraordinary. That would be the only evidence of tampering with the voting machines. If the trend is true and consistent, I would think that the probability of this occuring randomly would be extremely small. This could be proved or disproved with statistics. Is there a statitstician out there who could run those numbers?

    Comment by RightBehindYou — 11/4/2004 @ 5:42 am

  105. When George Bush turned his back on OBL……he turned his back on the safety of our country, but the ppl that re elected him are stupid enough to follow him to the grave for it.

    Mr President…..you have once again lost my trust and respect and I fear there is nothing you can do to fix what you have done to tear apart this country and the mess you and your idiots on the hill have chosen to try to secure others safety before our own.

    Homeland Security is a joke….there are soo many holes in it. The ones that are major and I tried to report, your ppl turned the other cheek and the holes are still there and growing larger. WTF

    It’s just a fancy name for a false securtiy for the american people.

    Don’t you or anyone else in your damn party piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

    BTW…..I was a republican up until the aftermath of 9/11 and no, I don’t see myself as a democrat either…..Seems neither party knows for sure how to dig this county out of the hole they got us in this time.

    Comment by formeramerican — 11/4/2004 @ 6:04 am

  106. “Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything.” - Stalin

    Comment by Robert Sterling — 11/4/2004 @ 7:41 am

  107. It’s sad to see how the American people are left with such little choises. Our prayers are with you brothers and sisters.

    Comment by THC Ministry Amsterdam — 11/4/2004 @ 7:46 am

  108. Stalin said something along the lines of
    It’s not who gets the votes but who does the counting.

    Comment by JP — 11/4/2004 @ 8:45 am

  109. Joe O’Conner -

    Apparently you don’t see the irony for fighting for peace do you.

    J0shtree1 -

    Fartmen? - now I haven’t heard that one since the 6th grade. Come on certainly you didn’t stay up all night thinking of that one. Try to be a bit more originla next time. - Oh I forgot - orignal - that would require you to THINK FOR YOURSELF wouldn’t it?

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/4/2004 @ 9:41 am

  110. Glacial - Optical scan uses a frikin’ paper ballot. You simply complete the arrow for your candidate, feed it through an optical scanner. Digital counting plus a paper trail with no haning chads.

    Now throwing mud without looking at your target is what I’m against.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/4/2004 @ 9:44 am

  111. The “professional statisticians” have already weighed in. The head of the exit polling stated that his exit polls were statistically consistent with the election. If you balance out the early exit polls, which had more than the average number of women and self-identified registered democrats which presumably voted more for Kerry.

    It not really rocket science. The public data is out there. Run your own ANOVA, chi square, or whatever your favorite test if you don’t believe the experts.

    Face it. More people wanted Bush than Kerry this election. If you don’t like that, focus on changing their minds in 08.

    Comment by hello — 11/4/2004 @ 9:55 am

  112. All of you people who “don’t consider yourself an American” or want to move to Canada - GO! The rest of us will stay here and eventually get this whole government thing correct.

    For those of you touting fraud - quit being a sideline quarterback and get some proof.

    - no quames about me not being a Bush supporter, but John Kerry and John Edwards are both current senators. They are part of the current problem! (Well - that is if they’d show up and do the job they are so highly paid to do)

    What I am trying to incite is thought! All of you are calling the Left flaming liberals and the right Christian Crusaders! Hasn’t our recent history taught us anything? You can’t label a group because of a small population of the group!

    If you are really socially conditioned to believe that one president over the other will bring about the changed needed, then you are all not seeing clearly.

    If we spent a quarter of the energy spent digging up dirt on opposition personnel on makig the country better - we would be a MUCH better place.

    Can’t you see that serving in office now days is one of the most lucrative things you can do now days? Of course people are fighting to get into those positions. And there is no accountability! You can’t get fired, and if you do - you’ve got one heck of a severance policy.

    Comment by Scott Fortman — 11/4/2004 @ 9:59 am

  113. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23580-2004Nov3.html

    “The exit polls got it flat wrong,” asserted Charles Gibson yesterday on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”
    That is wrong, countered Joe Lenski of Edison Media Research, which conducted Tuesday’s exit poll with Mitofsky International for the National Election Pool, a consortium of the major television networks and the Associated Press. “No wrong projections [of winners] were made; the projections were spot on,” he said. “The members used this data with sophistication and understanding of what data can and cannot be used for.”

    Comment by hello — 11/4/2004 @ 10:17 am

  114. Everyone knows that deibold promised many republican wins and he delivered. We know it’s fraud. Let’s band together and accomplish 4 goals:
    1. Impeach Bush…the people call for impeachment!
    2. Stop the voter fraud..demand each state have the same voting machines with paper verifications, no exclusions, no excuses!
    3. Stop any election results from being published until Hawaii casts it’s last vote!
    4. Fight to have churches pay taxes! If they can lobby in politices with money and time that should help the poor, then they are a business and should be taxed! Read Jerimiah 14:14.."The prophets (bush and churches) are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divination, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.”

    Comment by Ada — 11/4/2004 @ 10:52 am

  115. How can we FORCE THE MEDIA to cover us and this issue???

    Comment by intpbornagain — 11/4/2004 @ 10:59 am

  116. Benedict Arnold Kerry betrayed the world when he handed the presidency over to his Skull and Bones brother Dubya without a fight. The presidency was not lost on November 2. It was lost when the conservative media and Dick Gephart smeared Howard Dean into losing the Democratic Primary last year.

    Comment by KEVIN SCHMIDT, STERLING VA — 11/4/2004 @ 11:07 am

  117. It was the machines. And, behind it all, the Chrisitian Reconstructionts. The exit polls did not match for a good reason and it is unconscionable that the media has altered its exit polls..
    The election was rigged; the Diebold machines gave a large enough % of the vote to Bu$h to win as was promised by Diebold. There is no paper trail, very intentionally…they fought hard for that, damn them…so we can not prove it. But, please know that many of those who voted for Kerry did not have their vote count; rather, it was rigged as a vote for Bush within the programming.
    Rest now. There is a much bigger battle ahead. This is only the start of the WAR.
    Bu$hCo did not have a huge new turn out; a percentage of the votes for Kerry were switched by the machines. Dig, people, dig. Get angry and do some work.

    Comment by gbreez — 11/4/2004 @ 11:27 am

  118. Hey Scott,
    You need to open YOUR eyes and THINK for YOURSELF. You drank so much radical right wing koolaid, it’s coming out of your ears.
    Come back in a year or two, when Bush has turned this into a country none of us recognize. Come on back and give us all the pleasure of telling you WE TOLD YOU SO.
    By that time, you will be wishing and praying that we really were just being melodramatic.

    Comment by Susan — 11/4/2004 @ 11:44 am

  119. For anyone who thinks nothing is wrong with what is happening, you need to take really close look at it – World War III is coming!

    Comment by Trish — 11/4/2004 @ 12:02 pm

  120. Wow, Bush so obvisously stole this election … they are dangling the evidence right in front of our faces, and people still don’t see it. This is really scary!

    Comment by Trish — 11/4/2004 @ 12:05 pm

  121. Only 1 day after the elections the USA has issued a big change in its international policies regarding FYROM. I can tell you that most Greek-Americans would not have voted for Bush like they did if they knew about this sinister plan ahead of time.

    The US democracy is joke around the world. Banana republic on mega-scale. The New Age will be remarkably similar to the Dark Ages.

    Comment by Greek — 11/4/2004 @ 12:30 pm

  122. I have a friend who is a resident of Florida and a registered Republican. He lives in West Palm Beach and voted absentee. While 50,000 absentee ballots were lost in Broward County, West Palm Beach managed to send him multiple absentee ballots, which he promptly returned having voted for Bush in all of them. He refuses to tell me just how many he received, but admits to having received more than the customary one.

    Comment by Anonymous — 11/4/2004 @ 12:35 pm

  123. John Kerry has had twenty years in the senate to stop the tax break for companies that outsource jobs, help more Americans get health insurance, and work for the middle class providing jobs and he has done nothing. The bottom line is that John Kerry was an unacceptable candidate for President. If it wasn’t for the Clinton ecomomic bubble bursting, 9/11’s impact on the economy, and the post-war period in Iraq being more difficult than originally thought - Bush would have won in a landslide like when Mondale and Dukakis ran.

    As for John Edwards and his two Americas - He is wrong there is One American - made up of people who believe that this country is the best in the world and has more opportunity than any other.

    There is however two types of individuals, those that work hard and those that don’t. Those that believe that government should take care of everyone (socialists) and those that think that individuals should take care of themselves. The facts are clear in the demographics of the election - If you are over 30 yrs old you voted for Bush, Your income over $30,000, you voted for Bush, You go to church, you voted for Bush, You are a college graduate you voted for Bush. If you are poor you voted for Kerry, if you did not graduate high school you voted for Kerry and if you are a minority or gay you voted for Kerry.

    As for middle America those with family incomes between $30,000 and $75,000 per year voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

    One last comment, despite the media trying to influence public opinion by focusing on Iraq and fallen soldiers, the majority of Americans still support the war and know the facts. Last year more college students committed suicide (1,100) last year than deaths in Iraq. Last year 36,000 people died in the U.S. because of the flu, but no outrage for these two things.

    Middle Americans for W.

    Comment by FM — 11/4/2004 @ 1:01 pm

  124. Actually, I am a college grad and I didn’t vote for Bush; nor do i think that most college grads would.

    Comment by james — 11/4/2004 @ 1:22 pm

  125. For such a tolerant party you guys sure are intolerant.
    Every vote counts, John?? Maybe you should have showed
    up for a few Senate votes then.

    Comment by Someguy — 11/4/2004 @ 1:44 pm

  126. Hey FM-

    Glad to hear you “middle americans” know the facts. Half of you believe that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks.

    It may well be that this election was fraudulent, but I think most people simply can’t stomach the terrifying alternative: that a majority of people actually WANTED this psychopathic buffoon back in office. Not merely a tyranny of the majority, but a tyranny of the ignorant.

    To the nine-out-of-ten of you aged 25 and younger who didn’t even bother to vote: you’ve got exactly the government you deserve. Hopefully you’ll find fascism to be an acquired taste. Have fun in Iraq.

    Comment by man2co — 11/4/2004 @ 2:23 pm

  127. I’m grateful I live in Canada.

    Comment by lucky — 11/4/2004 @ 2:23 pm

  128. kimbob- I want to know where you were working and more about the fraud- these things need to come out!

    anyone else, please be specific and get in touch.

    Comment by yogini24 — 11/4/2004 @ 2:35 pm

  129. Democrats must get back to their populist roots as the party that defends the small people (those who don’t have a corporate lobbyist) against the rich, powerful and greedy…..it’s that simple.

    Every issue needs to be examined on whether it benefits average American citizen workers or hurts them. For a start, Democrats need to fight illegal immigration as it hurts American working citizens, while it benefits the rich and powerful.

    Comment by Tom — 11/4/2004 @ 2:36 pm

  130. James,

    You don’ t think that most college grads would vote for Bush. Perhaps you ought to do some research. Do a search of exit poll data - even the data biased toward Kerry shows Bush having a 6 to 8% point advantage in the college educated demographic and that even includes the postgraduate school liberal college professors who favored John Forbes Kerry by a wide margin.

    You guys can’t accept the fact that middle america and college graduates overwhelmingly favor Dubya over your guy.

    Comment by FM — 11/4/2004 @ 2:39 pm

  131. Here’s another discrepancy:

    The FL senate race was much tighter than the presidential race in that state. The number of votes for Kerry, and for Betty Castor, the Dem. senate candidate, were within about 10,000 of each other. However, Bush had 300,000 votes more than Mel Martinez, the Repub. senate candidate. In the absence of fraud, that means, effectively, that about 300,000 people voted in the presidential race, but not in the senate race, and ALL OF THEM voted for Bush!! (I find it hard to imagine a scenario of crossover votes that could account for that large a discrepancy.)

    Anyone have any theories on that? This result would certainly be consistent with 300,000 votes simply having materialized out of nowhere . . . .

    Comment by Larry Levine — 11/4/2004 @ 2:57 pm

  132. Fellow Americans,

    I use this greeting to mean those of us, Re-Bubba-kin and Democrat, who hold OUR constitution sacred in all of its provisions and believe no man above its freedoms as well as its constraints. Our constitution was written by men who wanted to create a new world, different from the Europe that they left, in opportunities and rights. They believed that all men should be equal regardless of their money or heritage. They believed that the right to vote and decide our countries future is not only assured, it is the cornerstone of our democracy.

    Which is why STEALING AN ELECTION electronically or any other way is wrong. This is not about Democrats or Republicans, it is about our country. I am sickened by the words of some of you who treat this endeavor like a football game in which your team won. I spent the summer registering voters in Texas. We registered 800,000 new voters. I can assure you that the majority of the ones that I spoke to, were not going to vote for this President. They were very unhappy about what he had done to our state and, afterwards, to the entire country.

    Our casual exit polls indicated that Bush was not faring well here. Kerry was doing very well among Hispanics and Whites alike. Imagine our suprise when he got a larger share of the vote than last time and THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS PAPERLESS ELECTRONIC MACHINES AND MOSTLY REPUBLICAN registrars.

    Bush’s policies are going to plunge us into a depression. The greed and stupidity of this man is ONLY surpassed by the blindness and ignorance of his followers. Since I have a much higher opinion of most of my fellow citizens and, backed by the numbers that I have seen, I believe that Bush was going to lose, so he rigged the vote. The data backs up my version a lot more than the conversion version of the neocons.

    Comment by Texas Straight shooter — 11/4/2004 @ 3:10 pm

  133. How to steal a Diebold election:

    1. Sometime in the weeks leading up to the election, have someone with access to the central Diebold GEMS server (which tallies all votes from every precinct) install a program that gives remote access to this machine (a “backdoor").

    The GEMS server runs under Windows XP, so this is really easy since there are many existing programs that give you remote access on Windows without the user of the computer ever knowing about it. Anti-virus software like Norton can’t detect this stuff either.

    This person can install the backdoor directly in about 30 seconds or the backdoor can easily be hidden inside a “normal” program that you could give as a CD to the owner of the machine and have them install it for you (like Microsoft Office).

    Simply peruse this site to discover all the backdoor programs you could choose from:

    http://www.rootkit.com/newsread.php?newsid=71

    2. On Election day, have someone access the backdoor via a remote computer. Since the GEMS server likely runs on an internal, statewide intranet, you would need someone, anywhere within the state, who had access to this network.

    3. Since the GEMS software is built using Microsoft Access, simply have your person upload a simple Visual Basic script that modifies the database totals directly and then execute it at various times during the day. Congratulations! You’ve changed the election!

    Make sure that it’s close enough (like 5%) so that you ensure that won’t be any recounts (which might expose your tactics) but not too far apart to raise alarm.

    Have no fear since the GEMS software has no internal checks to determine if things have changed from an external source.

    4. After the election, have your person remotely uninstall the program and any other files. This guarentees there is no proof of wrong doing.

    5. Repeat, as necessary, for as many states as needed to ensure victory.

    ** If you don’t believe it, then read here:

    http://www.blackboxvoting.com

    and watch this:

    http://www.archive.org/stream/VotergateTheMovie/votergatethemovie_256kb.mp4

    Comment by HowToSteal — 11/4/2004 @ 3:19 pm

  134. I am a registered NY Independent who generally votes Third Party candidates. This election I voted Kerry.

    This is the last presidential election where I will vote for a Democrat or Republican (I’vev oted republican in local races). I will either sticj to voting my TRUE conscience - or join the other 40% of eligible voters and sit it out - because it really DOES NOT MATTER.

    This country is owned by corporaet America and woe be us in the next four years.

    At least, the Republicans will have no one to blame in 2008. I expect we’ll see defections and infighting in their party by 2006.

    Comment by Rob — 11/4/2004 @ 3:25 pm

  135. I see a solution to these acqusations of electronic ballot fraud.

    Call in the hackers.

    Reverse engineer the software, figure out what it’s doing.
    This is far from impossible. Ten good hackers with decent
    pay could fully investigate this situation within a month.

    Comment by Hackasaurus — 11/4/2004 @ 3:41 pm

  136. You people have got to be kidding me! What a whining, pathetic group of losers. I’ve got three words for you to really lament over: Supreme Court Appointments! HA!

    Comment by WS — 11/4/2004 @ 3:56 pm

  137. I make $92k a year as a programmer. I loathe Bush and I believe that Karl Rove and his buddies stole this election. Kerry won Ohio and Florida and the machines gave it to Bush.

    May God have mercy on this country.

    Comment by Charlie Maguire — 11/4/2004 @ 4:11 pm

  138. I am the Lord your God and it was I who miraculously tampered with the machines .

    Comment by God — 11/4/2004 @ 4:13 pm

  139. Here’s my conspiracy theory. The exit pollers who work for the liberal media are in the back pockets of the democrats. They were TRYING to discourage Bush supporters by putting out these claims that Kerry was going to steam roll through this election with FALSE, yes false, exit polls. Or they were going to precincts where they KNEW the population was more heavily democratic.

    This whole conspiracy theory mess is just sad. The democrats need to realize the country has heard what they are trying to sell, and the majority of the country is not buying. Come up with something better. Realize this country does care about values evidenced by the gay marriage ban being ratified in every state that had it on the ballot. And it won convincingly in almost every case.

    Comment by CG — 11/4/2004 @ 4:25 pm

  140. HEY….. OHIO!

    Enjoy your Economic Depression! You idiots!

    Comment by Warren G — 11/4/2004 @ 4:43 pm

  141. Who ever thinks this is a complete idiot! Come on give it up, George W. Bush WON…quit trying to make this a conspiracy theory!

    Comment by Dawn Blanton — 11/4/2004 @ 4:44 pm

  142. uh… excuse me….. but THERE IS NO LIBERAL MEDIA!

    FOX, RUSH, MSNBC…. etc. WHERE is the LIBERAL MEDIA?

    Comment by Warren G — 11/4/2004 @ 4:59 pm

  143. it does appear a bit strange that in to election but different states
    bush has a come from behind victories

    Comment by david coon — 11/4/2004 @ 5:35 pm

  144. Kerry is a spineless ass
    and I voted for him
    There have been rumors of electronic voting fraud for months (years?)
    and he did and said nothing some lawyer he is
    I have never voted for a democrat or republican before and ever will again
    we must reform the system

    so now bush can replace jobs with work camps
    hope you all are happy
    BOB

    Comment by bob — 11/4/2004 @ 5:44 pm

  145. 1984 - 20 years late?

    Orwell was right - just had the date wrong. Big Brother is legal. Opposition is unpatriotic - they have permission to view everything that has your name on it. Come into your home and not notify anyone. The Fascist are running the show now!

    Years ago Mrs. Clinton spoke of the right wing conspiracy - she was right! They put a few people on the Supreme Court. They infiltrated all levels of the process - readying for the time to corrupt it for the views of the righteous. They took the FCC - let the independent radio & TV stations become just a few chains that promote the party message. The networks are owned by a few huge corporations with interests (tax relief/profits) in the repub control. The reporter who used to ask the “tough” questions were either fired or curtailed their “integrity” knowing where their job is at - do not oppose the “Furor “W” or Die! The courts are flooded with partisan right wing extremist judges to uphold all the wrongdoings and let the will of the people be suppressed. They won a few important states - Florida, Ohio - and put the “right” people in the right spots - the secretary of state, for example - to do everything possible - legal or not (courts don’t matter anymore!) to deny the right to vote. They allowed a partisan supporter of the repub party put unverifiable computer technologies into their hands - to be manipulated and keep their side in power - in spite of the people leaving the polls - saying they voted for the other guy. The Congress is solely in their control to stop any call for “truth” finding - there will be no impeachment ever - no matter how many laws “W” breaks - no matter how many lies he tells congress & the American people, no matter how many US kids he kills in the name of OIL & Money, no matter how many Iraqi unarmed citizens he kills (over 100k estimates now), no matter how much his “friends” embezzle - see Halliburton/Enron, No matter how much he drains from the US economy in deficits (Social Security is next), No matter what unethical, immoral bastardly crimes he commits- we have no way to prosecute, no court in all the lands will convict the highest of all thieves in US history!

    The Worst part is how you continue from here? - Your votes are dismissed or changed - your voices overruled - your just stuck and no way out - how do we disassemble “W” and the conspiracy that is real?

    I volunteered, I spoke with many, many people, “Farenheit 911″ - where huge crowds cheered and looked around and felt they were not alone in fighting “Heir Furor W” I took people to polls, I saw the people say they no these people are wrong and they are voting for change. How do they stand up again, knowing the deck is stacked in the corrupt’s favor? I went to an Edwards rally - a ton of people of all different backgrounds, waited for 3 hours in a unventilated gym for 3 hours on a very hot September day to hear 15 minutes of “hope” only to be suppressed and discounted!

    It may have to take a legitimate revolution to take back America!

    I don’t know how to look at my children and say all the good morals I’ve tried to teach them don’t matter - The good will prevail, take the higher ground, God will reward the kind and generous - when it’s clear as day - the devil wrapped in the US flag and speaking of “values” and his morality surrounds us and proceeds to demonstrate - they have control - they win by any means necessary! The mean people win! The hippocrates who enforce their values and narrow minded version of the bible win - Nice guys finish last! Should I tell them to start being an asshole now! Should I enforce that “greed is good", start working on my connections to get them into the right schools, colleges & jobs? Re-inforce the mean qualities I’ve been trying to rid from them? They may be confused for a while, but much like the “wolves in the forest” they’ll soon take to it and will be winners later in their lives - though they feel they earned all by themselves and step on anyone in their way - but it’s all about winning right! no matter if you cheated or found a way to circumvent the rules or the majority.

    Now they want us to unify? the famed “divider” - not just here but in the world! I weep for our future - this election will haunt the US for 40 years!

    Comment by PO\’D Liberal — 11/4/2004 @ 5:45 pm

  146. I don’t know where you guys are from but what are you talking about economic depression! You guys are listening to too much liberal media stuff. I work in the economic field and 25 of the 50 states have unemployment rate of less than 5%. Let me repeat that less than 5%. Yes there are a few states where job loss has been harder hit. I live in one of them Ohio where unemployment is 6.3%. However, I graduated from college in 1984 and let me tell you that was a tough job environment. Unemployment in Ohio was 13+% twice as bad as today.

    News flash, the economy is doing great, we have been losing manufacturing jobs nationally for 25 years includind 500,000 in Bill Clinton’s last 6 mos. in office.

    Just in……Parts of Ohio are doing unbelievably well - Columbus, Cincinnati……Some doing OK- Dayton……..some doing poorly - Particularly Northeast Ohio. I grew up there. Very high manufacturing base, non-college educated workforce, and poor political leadership. Republican George Voinivich brought Cleveland from the dead to shining star on the North Coast and the democratic leadership has driven it into the ground ever since.

    Our country has changed over the last 25 years from a manufacturing economy to a service economy and the areas that have not responded well are suffering now.

    But the recession we had a few years ago was the weakest on record for two reasons. One the tax cuts Bush put through stimulated the economy. The second reason relates to something the media created 30 years ago…..remember the misery index, which was adding up the unemployment rate, inflation rate, and interest rates. Well the liberal media doesn’t talk about it anymore because it is at all time lows. Interest rates are low, inflation is low, unemployment rate is below the average for last 30 years, home ownership is record high and values have increased 25% to 100% during the last 5 years.

    Because of all this the consumer keeps spending like a drunken sailor because they have so much discretionary cash they don’t know what to do with it except by plasma tv’s, ipod, the last cellphone and blackberry, a SUV, and a second home.

    Anybody out there honestly say their kids have it rougher than we you were a kid. My kids and all their friends have things I never even could have imagined as a child. Matter of fact I’d venture to say many kids have more than most parents did.

    Depression……you’ve got to be kidding.

    Comment by FM — 11/4/2004 @ 5:50 pm

  147. Yawn, it’s the usual mean spirited whining. Kerry couldn’t deliver so someone must have cheated. If we can’t have what we want, let’s take our toys and go home. No wonder the Democratic party is a mess.

    Comment by static — 11/4/2004 @ 5:53 pm

  148. One additional comment. The state of Ohio uses punch cards almost exclusively. There is almost no touchscreen balloting.

    Conspiracy theory has been discredited. The exit polls were wrong because they included too many women, to many minorities, too many people that don’t work and are democrats. More republican retired people vote in the afternoons when it is less crowded, and working men (overwhelmingly republican) go vote after work.

    Final exit polls that took into this into account showed the late surge for Bush just as the actual results confirmed.

    Comment by FM — 11/4/2004 @ 5:57 pm

  149. Why would Republicans have fought so hard against a paper trail for the new e-voting machines in Florida if they weren’t planning to fix the results? The first item on the agenda of any democracy-loving citizen is to demand, to scream for transparent elections. The problem is, the Republicans control the voting machines and the rules of the game in the red states, and to them democracy is just an annoyance.

    Comment by Randy Doak — 11/4/2004 @ 5:58 pm

  150. What Another Witness said sums it up. Only thieves and Criminals don’t want a paper trail.

    Comment by Randy Doak — 11/4/2004 @ 6:06 pm

  151. People who say “get over it” and “we have to come together as an nation” can kiss my ass. I will never again knowingly associate with any Republicans on a social level. I simply have no respect for them.

    Comment by Randy Doak — 11/4/2004 @ 6:08 pm

  152. More debunking conspiracy theory….
    The state of Ohio bought all new touch screen voting machines with the feds money after the last election. Republican Secy of State Ken Blackwell decided not to install them because there was no paper trail. They are waiting until next election when it is anticipated they will offer the necessary trail.

    Next idea….

    Comment by FM — 11/4/2004 @ 6:10 pm

  153. If I meet someone who has lost a job, or a loved one in Iraq, I will withhold my sympathy until I know how they voted in this election. If they voted for Bush, tough shit.

    Comment by Randy Doak — 11/4/2004 @ 6:11 pm

  154. It is crystal clear that the exit polls were slanted to favor Kerry by suppressing Voter turnout for bush supporters. The effort failed. I was a Democrat 6 years ago, but switched to Independent as I grew tired of the Kool-Aid-drinking party leaders who followed the path of extreme liberals rather than the soul of Americans. Once glance at the red/blue-coded voting-by-county map to see that nearly all of America is red-blooded. The blue blood flows almost exclusively out of the gigantic metropolitan areas where handouts and defeatism are the way of life. Until this party, and it’s supporters, come to the realization that they are wrong – not cheated, hog-tied or misled – then they will continue to lose election after election until a new second party steps in to claim their turf.

    Comment by Jeff Scott — 11/4/2004 @ 6:13 pm

  155. Can the ‘Freedom of Information’ act be applied to collecting the original and raw Exit Polling from news agencies? It seems to be a type of public information.

    Comment by Fred Haslam — 11/4/2004 @ 6:14 pm

  156. I demand a full independent investigation of the voting in Florida and Ohio!!!

    Comment by Susan Wilk — 11/4/2004 @ 6:19 pm

  157. Karl Rove did it. Plus Rove is now claiming Gore actually won the 2000 election. What this means is Bush can run again in 2008 and will be president until January of 2013. And you know Rove can pull it off too. When will we Democrat idiots get a clue and stop getting the crap kicked out of our silly butts? Let’s nominate a fighter next time! Dennis Kucinich!

    Comment by Joe Yowsa — 11/4/2004 @ 6:22 pm

  158. Karl Rove did it. Plus Rove is now claiming Gore actually won the 2000 election. What this means is Bush can run again in 2008 and will be president until January of 2013. And you know Rove can pull it off too. When will we Democrat idiots get a clue and stop getting the crap kicked out of our silly butts? Let’s nominate a fighter next time! Dennis Kucinich!

    Comment by Joe Yowsa — 11/4/2004 @ 6:25 pm

  159. Randy Doak says: I will never again knowingly associate with any Republicans on a social level. I simply have no respect for them.This is why you and your kind will never win. Just like Michael Moore, your hatred for America and Americans ranks #1 on your agenda. Terrorists, criminals and stan-worshippers probably do not even show up on your top-10 list.I would be perfectly happy to split this nation into two nations: USA-Red and USA-Blue. You guys can have the big cities wrought with crime, welfare and decadance. Check out the county-by-county map, then tell me most Americans are on your side. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm …. even California, Oregon, Pennsylvania and New York are almost entirely red. If this doesn’t tell you something, then it is simply because you don;t want to hear it. Go find some crop circles.

    Comment by Jeff Scott — 11/4/2004 @ 6:31 pm

  160. Burn down the mission if we want to stay alive…..

    Comment by John O — 11/4/2004 @ 6:33 pm

  161. Interesting develpment. Before maybe Sept., I could occasionaly listen to **heads on CNN,MSNBC etc. The last couple of weeks, I could tolerate trolls…free speech and all that. I have lost ALL tolerance, and am ready to go buy my AK. I believe we are a county at war.

    Comment by scubasteve — 11/4/2004 @ 6:36 pm

  162. Washington Prowler
    Tuesday’s Dirty Numbers Print Friendly Format
    E-Mail this to a Friend
    By The Prowler
    Published 11/4/2004 12:09:14 AM

    EXIT POLLSTERGEIST
    Tuesday’s election was marked by some of the most outrageous spinning seen in recent years. “The level of disinformation out there early on was remarkable,” says a Republican political consultant in Washington. “Both sides were doing it, but I have to say the Democrats and their operatives did a remarkable job of shaking things up.”

    Across D.C., consultants were emailing notices to their clients, both political and business, attempting to spin an election day that was barely hours old.

    Take political consultant Michael Frisby’s email to clients around 11 a.m. Tuesday:

    Latest news development is the unprecedented decision by the Bush campaign to add two more Election Day appearances in Ohio. (They had surprisingly scheduled one yesterday). The Kerry camp says the President is responding to election morning reports of heavy voting in Democratic areas of Pennsylvania and Florida, which may make those states difficult for him to now win. By their account, President Bush appears to be making his last stand in Ohio, which he must now win if Florida and Pennsylvania fall to Kerry. One development has occurred in President Bush’s favor: it is raining in Ohio. Republicans, particularly former Ohio Gov. Jim Rhodes, repeatedly pulled out close statewide races in Ohio after rain depressed the Democratic turnout in Northern Ohio. The Dems need to come out of the Cleveland-Youngstown area with close to a 150,000 to 200,000 vote lead if they hope to withstand the heavy Republican vote in Southern Ohio. The heavy morning voting in Democratic areas in key states is also spooking the pollsters; traditionally the morning vote trends Republican because that is when white color workers vote; the late afternoon and evening voting has traditionally been more Democratic because that is when blue collar voters come out to vote.

    Frisby served as Gen. Wesley Clark’s spokesman during his primary run.

    In fact, Bush made only one stop in Columbus, Ohio, the single stop that had been on his schedule for at least a day. That stop was intended to balance the rally the Kerry campaign held in Wisconsin on Tuesday morning. There were no two additional stops. Nonetheless, Frisby’s memo, which was furiously being emailed about Washington during the lunch hour, fed into the coordinated Kerry and Democratic leaking that was about to take place.

    A little after one o’clock, early polling numbers, purportedly from the pool exit polling consortium, began to pop up on the Internet and in e-mails in Washington and around the country.

    The early polling numbers are some of the most eagerly anticipated, if highly inaccurate, data on election day, and are widely distributed. Perhaps that was what the Kerry campaign was banking on.

    According to at least three sources, one inside the Kerry campaign, and two outside of it, but with ties to senior Kerry advisers, some of the “early polling numbers” were in fact direct reports from Kerry campaign or Democratic Party operatives on the ground in such critical states as Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, and Wisconsin. According to a Washington lobbyist with knowledge of the numbers, the numbers were packaged together so as to appear to be exit poll results. They were then scrubbed through several sources to land in the lap of sympathetic bloggers who these operatives believed would put the numbers up with little question.

    Some of the numbers claimed to be exit polling data that showed Kerry with a 8-1 voter ratio. As soon as the numbers hit the Internet, panic set in.

    “It was awful,” says a Republican House staffer. “You just felt sick when you saw the numbers.”

    Within an hour, the real exit poll numbers began to leak out, and while they were considerably better for Bush, they continued to show him lagging three to four percentage points behind the Democrats across the major electoral map, with a two-point disadvantage in the national, popular vote.

    “Actually when the real numbers came out, they made us feel a bit better,” says the House staffer, who was on the road in Nevada working for the Bush campaign. “Compared to what we had seen earlier, it made us think we had a clear shot, since we knew the early numbers tended to be bad for Republicans in the past.”

    Still, the disinformation campaign spread a pall over Republicans in Washington for several hours. By 3 p.m., senior Bush campaign operatives were putting out word that things were looking considerably better for Bush in Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Florida. By 6 p.m., some Washington insiders were already hearing that Florida and Ohio were winners for Bush, based on campaign internals. From there, the road to victory was much smoother.

    A different explanation for why the exit polls don’t match the actual results . . .

    Comment by Cwe_rph — 11/4/2004 @ 6:40 pm

  163. pth just give it up…the better man won…

    Comment by erin — 11/4/2004 @ 6:40 pm

  164. The reason the exit polls were so inaccurate is because it was a Dem plan to make the numbers look good for Kerry, thus deterring Repubs from going to the polls. Too bad it backfired. Instead all the Dems got their hopes up until the real results were announced..Too funny!!! :)

    Comment by Mark — 11/4/2004 @ 6:50 pm

  165. […] Diebold.Scott @ 1:53 pm

    Legitimate concern, or tin-foil-hat time? http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm http://www. […]

    Pingback by Insurrection » Diebold. — 11/4/2004 @ 6:53 pm

  166. […] Diebold.Scott @ 1:53 pm

    Legitimate concern, or tin-foil-hat time? http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm http://www. […]

    Pingback by Insurrection » Diebold. — 11/4/2004 @ 6:53 pm

  167. The middle american for W resurfaces with more facts and glad tidings about our economy, in particular HOW WELL OFF OUR KIDS ARE! Let your kids in on this little tidbit: the Congressional Budget Office forecasts a national debt of 14 trillion dollars in 10 years, with interest payments alone (of nearly 1 trillion dollars a year) exceeding spending for all discretionary federal programs combined. A study commissioned by former treasury secretary Paul O’Neill estimated the 50 year deficit at 44 trillion. W’s response was to shitcan the study and fire O’Neill.

    So live it up kids, W’s got it all figured out, and if he needs help he’s got God piped in through the wire under his jacket.

    Comment by man2co — 11/4/2004 @ 6:55 pm

  168. “If I meet someone who has lost a job, or a loved one in Iraq, I will withhold my sympathy until I know how they voted in this election. If they voted for Bush, tough shit.”

    “I will never again knowingly associate with any Republicans on a social level.”

    I’m a Republican, and living in Southern California obviously have many friends who are Democrates. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not the most concervative Republican when it comes to social issues, but I certainly have disagreements with some of my more liberal friends. We talk about it, and then get on with our lives, and our friendship.

    The fact that comments, like those quoted above, are said doesn’t suprise me. Both Liberals and Conservatives have a fair share of extremist wacko’s. The fact that nobody cared to challenge such statements is a little more disturbing.

    Forget about the next four years, we all need to live together much longer than that.

    Comment by Tim Taylor — 11/4/2004 @ 7:17 pm

  169. You “conspiracy theory” guys are going to kill this party. Go ahead and blow off some steam. I am disappointed too. But if you have any REAL hope of getting things turned around it is time to understand that this country is essentially moderate, at best.

    So, grow up. Get back up. Find leaders that can move us s-l-o-w- y in a more progressive direction with some real conviction and stay away from “damaged goods” candidates that lick their fingers and check the wind. They are out there.

    Comment by sb_jim — 11/4/2004 @ 7:25 pm

  170. Point-by point regarding the recent comment above beginning “John Kerry has had twenty years"…

    1. “Kerry…has done nothing”
    The majority rules in the Senate.
    An individual Senator can’t make legislation, but a President whose party controls the Senate can. George Bush failed to achieve the laws you mention, in spite of having the responsibility and power to do so.
    2. “..there is one America”
    Not all Americans believe Pride is a virtue, as your statement seems to assert. If we have more opportunities than any other place on Earth, then why does George Bush want to fundamentally and radically change America and its culture?

    3. Demographics: George got rid of the Estate tax, so scions can live off their ancestors income like European royalty. Cronyism, from Enron to SBC to Microsoft to Halliburton, has made the USA less of a meritocracy, and reduced our attractiveness to business. Look at the value of the dollar, the movement of capital, and the Federal Reserve’s interest rate since your supposed conservatives took over. If some wealthy people and conservatives voted for this guy on principal, they need to look again at his actual behavior.

    4. Fallen soldiers: Here are some more numbers:
    $25 million from Halliburton to Cheney,
    $2 Billion or more to Halliburton
    $200 Billion American dollars to Iraq
    $200 a year average income in Iraq
    1,100 dead American soldiers,
    George Bush got re-elected.
    Who’s the winner, here?
    Who’s the loser?

    I’m asking you to re-think you loyalties in the light of your sense of reason and conscience, Mr. Middle American

    Comment by David Reinertson — 11/4/2004 @ 7:39 pm

  171. Just wait…

    Comment by Tom Joad — 11/4/2004 @ 8:16 pm

  172. Actually, I’m a bit impressed with the GOP. By keeping the margin smaller, the election results seem more credible, more real, and leave people wondering what else they could have done to get their message across, how else they could have brought out more voters, etc. We feel heartbroken, the wind knocked out of us, instead of angry and mobilized.

    Of course I don’t trust the results. Given what happened in 2000, what has happened with voting machines in the smaller elections since then, and the tactics used to try to thwart minorities, the elderly and students from even register to vote in the weeks and months leading up to this election… of course I wasn’t going to trust the results.

    But they didn’t go for gangbusters… a little tweak here, a little tweak there… enough to tip the election, but within a range that gets us and the pundits talking about how fear, religion, the split in ideas about gay rights, etc. led to those numbers, rather than vote fraud.

    These numbers are meaningless when they come from a machine. How stupid are we? We need records, real records. A power surge, a power outage, magnetic fields, the spiriting away or replacing of a memory card, hacking, hidden code - all of these things can wipe or change data. The promise of faster counting does not outweigh the benefits of reality-based, tangible ballots.

    Sure - I think there are a lot of people who voted for Bush. But as much as there is reason to believe that there are plenty of them out there, there has also been proof of willingness, ability and attempts to swipe votes. The numbers of voters who came out - who they were, what they told exit pollsters - doesn’t add up.

    Come on, voter disenfranchisement is NOTHING new. It’s as old as voting itself. The ways are just more hidden.

    Comment by Not a surprise — 11/4/2004 @ 8:50 pm

  173. I believe that something is very wrong with our voting system. I do not believe that GW Bush won in 2004, I know he didn’t win in 2000. If ip can take control of our personel pc’s, why can’t the same thing happen to pc’s & central pc’s? I would love to know. I believe people are afraid to make it public if they did know. Bush didn’t win.

    Comment by Clara Sowell — 11/4/2004 @ 9:05 pm

  174. This story must be passed to as many newpapers and cable stattions that will have it. They must be forced to research it, and find the truth. It appears that this election was fixed by ev machines with no paper trail. How does anyone explain the exit polls and extreme oposition to the real vote ONLY at polling places using these machines? If the story is true, BUSH must be IMPEACHED!!!!

    Comment by steve naus — 11/4/2004 @ 9:07 pm

  175. HA HA HA HA HHHA HEEEHHEEHHEHH HEHHE HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHH YOU PEOPLE ARE INCREDIBLE!

    Comment by Anonymous — 11/4/2004 @ 9:12 pm

  176. HA, you guys suck, you paranoid whiny idiot children

    Comment by John Kerry — 11/4/2004 @ 9:24 pm

  177. Funny thing is that if terrorists ever did bomb our country, i would doubt that they would bomb the south or the heartland, they would bomb us in the north. everyone knows most of the money comes in thru the states that voted for kerry. bin laden even said he wants to bankrupt the u.s. like he did russia. so why would he attack a farm over let’s say something like the wtc. he wouldnt. hope you southerners feel better knowing gays won’t be able to marry each other now, glad that’s all you care about. who wants to live anyways. thanks a lot.

    Comment by disgusted — 11/4/2004 @ 9:45 pm

  178. exit polls - Cnn - 8 pm.
    Florida Pres. - 49/48 Kerry Result - 52/47 Bush Dif. Bush+6
    Florida Sen. - 49/49 Result 49/48 Martinez Dif. Matinez+1

    Explanation:

    1- Republicans stole a election they might win anyway

    2- Democrats tempered with exit polls but only with the Presidential race

    Comment by Iureldas — 11/4/2004 @ 9:47 pm

  179. CNN exit National exit polls

    Vote in 2000
    Did not Vote - 17%
    Vote Gore - 37%
    Vote Bush - 43%
    Other - 3%

    Note: Gore and Bush should be tied, and this poll means that 10% of Gore support just didn´t vote in 2004, with a tie in the exit poll Kerry would win with 50/48.

    Comment by Iureldas — 11/4/2004 @ 10:03 pm

  180. Cool. This means full scale war and oppression between the Christofascists and the Islamofascists. What fun.

    Comment by Marquis de Sade — 11/4/2004 @ 10:11 pm

  181. Somebody give this author a BIG FAT CRYING TOWEL!!!! GET OVER IT; YOUR CANDIDATE LOST!!!!

    Comment by Patriot — 11/4/2004 @ 10:16 pm

  182. Diebold rocks! You liberals need someone to make voting machines that will give you votes too!

    Comment by Eric — 11/4/2004 @ 10:22 pm

  183. i am having a hard time understanding why our voting system is not being questioned more stronging. there are still states saying to close to call(as of 11.4) and what about the absente ballots and miltary ballots? can’t we all stand up and ask? is everyone afaird that we have another 2000 election messup on our hands?
    i am not living in denile about this election but i do feel it has been stolen. something needs to be done. can we all address this issue?

    Comment by why — 11/4/2004 @ 10:24 pm

  184. Drudge had the following clip a while ago, now taken down:

    EXIT POLL DIRECTOR CLAIMS: WE WERE RIGHT…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23580-2004Nov3.html

    Comment by Red Reptile — 11/4/2004 @ 10:30 pm

  185. If the ruling party can compromise or negate the “civil” mechanism for change, then the system is broken. As one former King George discovered, people in such situations can and will resort to, shall we say, extra-judicial means to effect change. E-voting as currently implemented, i.e., trivially hacked and generally inauditable, is very simply a recipe for armed revolt by the aggrieved party (if you think the left-wingers aren’t up to it, re-read your history). There is no reason in principle that e-voting can’t work, but as it stands now it is worse than useless, and indeed dangerous.

    Comment by man2co — 11/4/2004 @ 10:43 pm

  186. The fascist regime stole he election again and now they say they have a moral mandate! They need to be removed immediately. This make watergate look like a walk in the park

    Comment by Jonathan — 11/4/2004 @ 10:47 pm

  187. I work for Diebold writing source code for Sub_system backup programs.
    And Bush-Cheney(EMP>NORTON was the Code Name)was the default setting for these.
    I resigned 4 days before the election,because i don’t want to go to prison with this Administration.
    There is a paper trail.
    And i have it.
    And it’s either going to get me killed,or make me rich.Dunno which yet.
    But the truth is:America is not a democracy anymore.
    Live in fear.
    Of George Bush.
    Until he goes to prison or someone pops him.

    Comment by DeepThroat — 11/4/2004 @ 10:53 pm

  188. Critical popups.love that shit

    Comment by DeepThroat — 11/4/2004 @ 10:54 pm

  189. I always find people’s “lines” really interesting.

    People can believe that there are “evil men” in the world who hate freedom and basically only want war. Black and white, no gray. But they can’t believe that their could be those with not-so-good intent within our own government?

    Do you think that the offices of the government hold some kind of power, like Wonder Woman’s lasso, that will only allow people of good intent and honor to hold them? Is there a forcefield around the White House that repels all potential evil-doers from entering the door and claiming a place within it?

    Is it that the guys in there now seem more “like us” - are white, speak English, claim to follow Christ, aren’t towel heads, use words like “values"? I really want to know - what is the reason that people can’t see that some of what they have done is evil? Is it because they can’t see the grays in the world? Can’t see cases of some evil deeds, some good deeds, and imperfect people who sometimes need to be corrected or kept in check? It has to be all: EVILDOERS WHO MUST BE VANQUISHED, and FIGHTERS FOR FREEDOM WHO MUST BE GRANTED ALL POWER THAT THEY NEED!

    THAT is childish.

    Religious certainty sure has a comic-book feel to it. If only it was that benign.

    Let’s see - I think evil has more to do with actions than words…

    LYING…
    This administration fabricated evidence to send people to war.
    Hypocrisy
    “Every life is precious…” For those of you who seem to think American life is more precious: over 1,000 soldiers dead, thousands more wounded, maimed or disabled for life. Soldiers sent in unprepared, still lacking the armor they need. Coffins coming home in the dark. No admin member has gone to a SINGLE funeral. Keep telling us how you honor the brave men and women over there. (Somehow some people are still eaiting those words up.) Veteran services slashed, injured soldiers charged for their hospital stays.

    For those of you who can see the value of other human life, even if it comes wrapped in a darker skin: over 100,000 Iraqis dead, mainly women and children. Areas still have no water, no electricity…

    “But we went in to defeat terrorism” - NO LINKS between Iraq and 9/11.
    “But they had weapons of mass destruction” - NONE found. The U.N. had made sure of that. Hussein was only a threat to his own people and the countries surrounding him… but before you argue then that maybe “We went in to help his people and defend his neighbors” - why didn’t we go into Sudan, why didn’t we stop the genocide in Rwanda? Why did we continue to bomb in Iraq even after it was apparent that we were not hitting key sites - that we were mainly killing and maiming civilians?

    With all of this… why would you think that protecting every person’s right to vote would actually be a priority?

    Lying in order to start a war. Going to war using the children of this country they claim to love. This administration doesn’t let concern for the lives or livelihood of others get in the way of what they want, why would concern for voting rights get in the way of their ensuring their continued stay in the White House?

    What is this imaginary line you think wouldn’t be crossed? Honor among thieves? Stop fooling yourselves.

    Comment by Not a surprise — 11/4/2004 @ 10:56 pm

  190. Incredible….you people have gone past being malcontents straight to being unconscionably vapid morons. Oh, yes, of course, the people at Diebold are behind it all! And to the order of more than 3 million in the popular vote ,no less. Gosh, maybe you are right. Do you actually believe yourselves when you say things like that? For such self-acclaimed “caring and tolerant” people, I have never before seen such twisted faces and seeping venom when you mention Bush. Maybe now you will realize that the rest of America (gasp!) does not believe your diatribe, even with the unadulterated support of CBS,ABC, NBC, CNN, PBS, N.Y. Times, Hollywood , Michael Moore, etc. Maybe a good first step would be to stop embracing a-morality as if it were a virtue.

    Comment by Erik Iverson — 11/4/2004 @ 11:00 pm

  191. It is amazing how gullible people can be…

    Yes, teh whoel election was rigged! Right under Kerry, 1000’s of clerks and 10,000 lawyers noses!

    Those sneaky republicans!

    Especially in FL and OH, where nobody was really paying attention anyway because it wasn’t that important.

    Right.

    Comment by Greg — 11/4/2004 @ 11:06 pm

  192. Seems to me that the CNN exit polling was showing Kerry actually ahead on Tues evening in Ohio, IIRC. Ahead, as I recall, by 2% among males, and 4 % among females. Something like that. IIRC

    Comment by A friend — 11/4/2004 @ 11:08 pm

  193. Un-believable. Just when I thought I’d seen it all with you people, you go past being hateful malcontents straight on to being irretrievably vapid morons…Do you actually believe what you write? Wait..of course, it was all the the evil Diebold corporation! And with a nationwide popular vote margin of over 3 MILLION, no less. It all makes sense now! Since you don’t seem to have a clue, I’ll help you: the big secret is that most of America does not fall for your diatribe! And what happened to you who like to hold yourselves up as paragons of “caring” and “tolerance"? I have never seen such twisted, hating faces almost visibly dripping with venom at the mere mention of Bush’s name. Maybe if you were to stop breaking into and shooting at Republican offices, slashing tires, and generally just embracing amorality as if it were a virtue, you might get some semblance of a clue.
    E. Fudde

    Comment by Elmer Fudde — 11/4/2004 @ 11:18 pm

  194. And they also work hard rigging machines and systems every two years to control the house, the senate and a majority of governorships.

    Or

    Maybe they reach more voters with a clearer message and better candidates.

    Comment by Vote or die — 11/4/2004 @ 11:28 pm

  195. cheat your way into office of most powerful country on planet

    organise phony terrorist attack on your own large important skyscrapers with rich arab oily chums and sacrife your own citizens in the process

    scare the shit out of everyone with continuing threat of attacks from bloodthirsty,crazy but very well organised sheepherders who dont even wear shoes but sit next to a large patch of natural resource(opium, oil)

    invade said area of planet to seek out their underground militarycomplexes and compounds (stinking little caves not half full of ammo left over from war against soviet invaders )

    start linking any nearby(but unconnected) countries(which you had already been arming and training for years for own benefit) to the imagined global terrorists and begin invading them for their resources, all the while telling your own people that youve got the international sheepherders on the run

    break all bonds and freindships with natural allies and freinds in rest of western world

    sacrifice a load more of your own people doing this, while murdering 100,000 or more innocent and very poor men, women, children etc in unconnected country

    use your corporate chums to design a suspect computerised voting machine(with no way of verifying or checking 4 foulplay) and get voted back in for a second term with the largest majority vote ever

    scare the shit out of everyone with continuing threat of attacks from bloodthirsty,crazy but very well organised sheepherders …….etc, etc

    this stuff looks easy doesnt it, you couldnt make this stuff up if you tried (or could you?)

    ‘WAKE UP AMERICA’

    the rest of the world already has

    Comment by ralph the mouth — 11/4/2004 @ 11:28 pm

  196. In NH [where Kerry won] we have verifiable electronic voting machines.

    One thing that WAS noticed was the now EX-Governor of the State, Craig Benson gladhanding it with people standing in line to vote - which is clearly prohibited by NH Law.

    All canididates for Office in the State of NH are cordoned off by barriers and are prohibited from engaging the lines of voters in the queue.

    Good news is, Benson LOST in NH.

    Next step - Democrat[s] in the HOuse in 2006!

    Comment by shpilk — 11/4/2004 @ 11:30 pm

  197. In Farenhiet 9/11, Bush clearly states, “This is not a dictatorship. Though it would be much easier if it was. Much easier for me that is.”
    This country is in big trouble. Big trouble. This man has lied, cheated and stolen our country and our values right out from under us, all the while claiming he has been brought to the presidency by God. At least the world recognized that Hitler was insane. Most of this country will follow Bush without question, and I shudder at the results.

    Comment by Penny — 11/4/2004 @ 11:42 pm

  198. Kerry and Edwards take vacations? Please!!! Every politician running for high office takes time from their job.

    Please explain President Bush’s schedule–more vacation, by far, than any president in history.

    Yeah, I guess he made 44 trips to Pennsylvania and about the same amount to Ohio for the good of the country. Ya’ jerk.

    Comment by ron gallop — 11/4/2004 @ 11:44 pm

  199. I believe that this was a rigged election, so don’t blame the candidates for losing (Jesus Christ himself couldn’t have won this one with Diebold machines counting the votes) or the voters for voting for Bush (at least until we know if they really DID - if we ever do.) To those who say “Forget about it, get on with your lives", this is more than just a lost election. I’ve seen my share of those in all the years I’ve voted, but this one is different. If we lay down and let the democratic process die, we might as well get used to living in a fascist dictatorship, because that’s what we’re heading towards.
    Hey Glacial, thanks for the invite! I would like to take you up on it, but I don’t want to leave without my family. Besides, the homeland needs us all to stay and fight for free elections. Isn’t it ironic that we are so hung up on exporting “freedom” to the rest of the world while we are losing it here? Orwell is probably saying “I told you so!”

    Comment by Betty Stewart — 11/5/2004 @ 12:20 am

  200. There’s a low cost, simple statistical way to verify any vote, as was done recently in Venezuela, where an American polling company grossly biased the predicted outcome against the winner in a highly contested election. After those voters had voted electronically or otherwise, they received a printout of what they voted for, looked at it for verification and dropped it into a box seperate from all other voting records.

    Later, these independent voting records were statistically sampled quickly and at low cost to verify that the electronic vote was indeed accurate, which also condemned the polling company as fraudulent for attempting to influence the outcome with an absurdly erroneous prediction against the winner.

    After all the insistence by those controlling the voting machines that printers could not be installed in time for the US election, there were other ways to verify a vote. Hell, they could have used a copy machine to produce in ONE DAY thousands of one-page, formatted scannable forms for statistical sampling that could be filled in by hand and stacked near the machines with simple instructions, but no, that’s too much effort to insure the integrity of a democratic government.

    Comment by MP — 11/5/2004 @ 12:37 am

  201. Dems, keep complaining, but more importantly tell Kerry he is a
    wimp if he does not fight the very idea of evoting without voter paper recipts(not at the end of the day from the eletronic record). Call for a runoff, in all states with electronic paperless voting. Simply claim they cannot prove the voting totals therfore they are useless. The burden of proof must be on the voting system.
    Tell kerry, tell all the networks, get the word out.

    Comment by Brian — 11/5/2004 @ 12:39 am

  202. Deep Throat - You asshole. You’re an ASSHOLE! Speaking as a fellow IT professional we both know Erik Iverson knows nothing about programming. (Erik you obviously have zero understanding of the vicissitudes of software programming and how easy it would be to pull of what Diebold is accused of doing.). DT: Do your duty or get the fuck out of here. YOU are either a troll or a loser who doesn’t have the courage of his –or her–convictions. THIS IS THE MOMENT. GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND DO YOUR DUTY. Go public. OR find the gov agency that will keep you anonymous as you display your evidence. Write the fucking book later, play this card or get off this and every other progressive board, traitor.

    Comment by emmeke — 11/5/2004 @ 12:50 am

  203. I am a registered Republican and I voted for Bush. But I am equally ticked off about the inability to have a reliable audit on these machines. This is something I have been complaining about for months and it is only getting worse as the scope of copyright law continues to increase at our expense. It may very well be the reason you haven’t heard anything in the major news: no one wants to be sued.

    Diebold abused copyright to censor Swarthmore students (and others) for publishing memos about their fraudulent voting machines well in advance of this election:
    http://scdc.sccs.swarthmore.edu/diebold

    There are plenty of Republican and Democrat enemies in this copyright war because many are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by industries more interested in their bottom line then free culture. Maybe now you’ll pay attention to groups like EFF who have been fighting for months to have paper trails on electronic voting machines.

    Up until now, voting was something that could be understood. We all have a basic understanding about what happens when we fill in an arrow and scan the ballot with a machine. But now with electronic voting the nature of voting has been changed using copyright. We now have to trust a few developers to do everything correctly. We don’t get to see how it works.

    We need open-source electronic voting systems. Any concerned citizen should be able to download the code and study it. I don’t trust companies like Diebold to do it for me. Protect your freedom. This has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat bashing.

    Comment by dwm — 11/5/2004 @ 1:27 am

  204. How very sad and bleak a day for America. As a Canadian who almost had a"Bush” in power, let me first offer my condolences.
    It does not surprise me that the republicans would make such a mockery of the term"democracy". Under this dictator, I fear for your health, your environment and the very freedoms that separate the western world from the rest of the world. This man is true evil. He manipulates facts and lies for he and his wealthy buddies own gain.

    Comment by Colleen — 11/5/2004 @ 1:31 am

  205. I feel the same way; I believe that the electronic machines were hacked into. I also believe that this particular hacker or hackers got paid millions of dollars to do this and to also to keep quiet. I also believe that they were paid by a company that is going to profit off of the war. By keeping G.Bush in the white house these companies will profit billions of dollars that is why the stock market profits went up after the election. G.Bush has no plans on taking our troops out of Iraq, it will only get worse. I feel they should send all those republicans that voted for G.Bush to Iraq to fight his dirty war. G.Bush does not care about the human race, he only cares about making him self and all the company’s involved richer. This is a sad day for democrats because we will be the ones to suffer along with those ignorant republicans that voted for him. G.Bush and his friends are what you call “lovers of money” and the day WILL come when they WILL be JUDGED!

    Comment by Audrey — 11/5/2004 @ 1:31 am

  206. Now I bet any amount that the Skull & Bones Brotherhood called Kerry. “yo dude, Let Bush have his turn OR we release your Boneman files” (and ALL Bonemen have files with PHOTOgraphic evidence of bad-boy-behavior.)

    Comment by MKD — 11/5/2004 @ 1:42 am

  207. Have the comments from the international election observers been released, yet? Did they do exit polling?

    Comment by nothing2chere — 11/5/2004 @ 1:50 am

  208. “Comments are moderated; there may be a delay before it is posted.”

    Ah nuts. I’m new here and I missed that notice because there were so many comments. I thought there was some kind of error on my end (message too long, etc). :(

    Keep one of the later ones where the hyperlinks are hidden with the text and toss the others. Sorry for flooding but at least it is moderated out.

    Editor’s Note: Well, I already moderated it – typically I keep the first one and delete the following redundancies. Feel free to repost if I yanked something you wanted to be posted.

    Comment by to the mod… — 11/5/2004 @ 1:59 am

  209. Write to the DNC and your reps in Washington,DC and demand nationwide voting ballot reform. That’s what I did today,because the exit polls didn’t match the results. Please join me in eliminating the electronic “DIEVOTE” machines all owned by Bush/Cheney cronies of the evil empire. I told the DNC they won’t get anymore money from me until this reform is done.:)

    Marian in Oakland, California aka a Blue State

    Comment by Ms. Marian Murphy — 11/5/2004 @ 2:16 am

  210. The question is one of integrity, not one of partisan affiliation. Once integrity can be questioned, what faith can we have in a leader who would manipulate an election unethically? Even if the end result would have been the same, it doesn’t justify doing this sort of thing. There’s no excuse for dishonesty.

    I know that neoconservatives will flame me; they just can’t stand anyone uttering a word of criticism, even when it’s justified. I’d say the same if the election results had been reversed. I don’t want anyone holding office who can’t get there through a fair, honest election. I’m voting Libertarian here on out, partly because I think they make the most sense, partly because I found the behavior of both Republicans and Democrats in this election repulsive and reprehensible. I know I’ve just challenged their vocabulary with those words, and they’ll flame me rather than look them up and enrich their meager education. Sadly enough, that has become the American way.

    Comment by Daddy Kickass — 11/5/2004 @ 2:43 am

  211. http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526/exit_poll.gif

    “This chart makes the trend obvious. In states with paper ballots and
    audit trails, the exit polls accurately predicted the vote results. In
    states using electronic machines, the vote results were distorted in
    favor of Bush.”

    source - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

    Comment by aaa — 11/5/2004 @ 5:02 am

  212. Is there any way dems, or concerned citizens can challenge Ohio - or did John Kerry’s concession put an end to it all. I mean isn’t fraud fraud regardless of concession. Damn - I want to stand up to this crap. Why give up - they wouldn’t, and they’re crooked and wrong!

    Comment by Gaahh! — 11/5/2004 @ 5:09 am

  213. What the HELL is wrong with some of you people?!

    You call wanting to be able to vote legally in a democracy… whining?

    You goddam idiots would have probably looked Patrick Henry in the eyes back in the day and called HIM a whiner!.. and he would of smacked your dumb ass down.

    My God, you poor wimp bastards are just going to ACCEPT THIS in your country? I’m embarrassed to even be in the same thread of some of you spineless rodents. You don’t deserve this country.

    We NEED to get to the VERY bottom of this and find out if this election was fixed. AND if it was, there needs to be a reelection.

    THIS IS DEADLY SERIOUS FOLKS.

    DEADLY SERIOUS.

    Comment by Cowicide — 11/5/2004 @ 5:30 am

  214. http://img103.exs.cx/img103/4526/exit_poll.gif

    “This chart makes the trend obvious. In states with paper ballots and audit trails, the exit polls accurately predicted the vote results. In states using electronic machines, the vote results were distorted in favor of Bush.”

    source - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

    Comment by aaa — 11/5/2004 @ 5:48 am

  215. AMERICA IS FACING CIVIL WAR II. THE RICH VS EVERYONE ELSE. JOIN THE FIGHT. BOYCOTT ALL CORPORATIONS. I WAS SICK OF SEEING THE REPUBLICANS HELPING BUSH WIN THE ELECTION. WHERE ARE THE REAL NUMBERS. DID EVERYONE SIMPLY TAKEN CNN’S WORD FOR WHO WON. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. I AM AGAINST WAR, BUT I HOPE THAT IF TERRORISTS DECIDE TO BRING BUSH’S WAR ON AMERICAN SOIL, THEN HOPEFULLY IT’LL TAKE PLACE IN THE SOUTH. SCREW ALL THOSE REDNECKS WHO VOTED FOR BUSH, JUST LIKE THEY VOTED FOR SLAVERY. THE DEFICIT WAS DOWN DURING BUSH SENIOR, WENT UP DURING CLINTON, WENT WAY DOWN DURING BUSH AGAIN, AND NOW REPUBLICANS ARE DOOMED. BOYCOTT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING, LET THEIR STOCKS ROT. ” LISTEN TO EMINEM’S NEW SONG - MOSH”

    Comment by RED ARMY RUS — 11/5/2004 @ 6:30 am

  216. Everyone can stop the crying! It’s now time for our politicians to go after Diebold. After all there are a significant number of Democratic computer scientists ready and willing to debunk the code! Pressure on the Congress and Democratic Party and everyone’s Senators will do the trick. We should all push for voting only with paper trails! In the meantime Bush will destroy himself and our country but we shall survive and he may not. Statistically speaking the odds of the conflicts in exit polling is astronomical and should raise everyone’s attention level! As for Bush-he will do himself in as the Republican Party splits.

    Comment by Dale — 11/5/2004 @ 7:39 am

  217. Why did Kerry wimp out and not make the un-auditable election system an issue? It needs to be.

    Many conservatives in the media are declaring that the whole exit polling system should be investigated. I agree and wonder why exit polling did not support actual results, when it has in the past. Exit polling was supposed to be a validation of the electronic voting, yet it only raised more questions. There needs to be answers to this to make this election legitimate in the minds of many.

    Comment by Tom — 11/5/2004 @ 8:49 am

  218. “Don’t waste yourself in rejection, nor bark against the bad, but chant the beauty of the good.”
    - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Democrats, we stand for what is right always, not what is right in the minds of the bigoted and ignorant. Don’t despair, we will always fight the evil of greed, corruption and power hungry fools. Sometimes we lose, but we will win in the end.

    Comment by Thomas — 11/5/2004 @ 10:08 am

  219. The 2004 Florida vote results trend overwhelmingly by type of voting machine used. The OP-SCAN results appear very suspect. In OP-SCAN voting districts Bush often received near 100% or 200% more votes than expected and Kerry’s vote was often around 50% less than expected. The statistics have been gathered at:
    http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

    You can verify the data yourself with the links given at the bottom of the website.

    Comment by Jean — 11/5/2004 @ 10:15 am

  220. Why hasn’t the media investigated all of these discrepancies in the vote count? Where are the journalist of old who wanted the truth and actually reported it?

    Comment by Justice — 11/5/2004 @ 10:23 am

  221. Nevada, which also has electronic voting – though should have mandated paper trails, had a variance of 4.2 percent. Kerry led the exit polls by 1.2 percent, while Bush led reported votes by 3 percent.

    I can’t say how wrong that fact is. I don’t know about the Northern part of the state but the southern part pf the state does have a printed paper trail with the evoter machines. In fact we have been praised for having a paper trail with our machines.

    Get the facts straight….

    Comment by Rebekah — 11/5/2004 @ 10:25 am

  222. The polls released during the day were not done exactly right. These polls sampled early voters only. This invalidates a normal statistical analysis. Any introductory statistics student should know this, but the concept isn’t too difficult to understand.

    The polls did not employ Simple Random Sampling (SRS). This is a critical design flaw. In SRS, each member of the population under study (in this case, all who voted in a particular state) has an equal chance of being chosen for the sample (those who were polled). If some members of the population do not have a chance of being selected for the poll, the sample may reflect a population similar, but not identical to, the population under study. Conclusions from the polled sample will apply only to the similar population and not necessarily to the real population.

    The 1948 U.S. Presidential election illustrates this. A telephone poll predicted Dewey would win. But in 1948 many voters, those with lower incomes, did not own a phone. The 1948 poll actually sampled voters with phones, not all voters.

    Exit polling is a major improvement on telephone polling. Those who actually vote are sampled, not those who can be contacted and who also say they will vote. Every actual voter must have an equal chance of being polled!

    But in the polls released before the voting ended, not every voter had an equal chance of being sampled. Who was left out? Those who hadn’t voted yet. Which population was actually studied? Those who cast their ballots during the morning or early afternoon. Why would that make a difference? Who knows. Maybe early voters differ somewhat, economically or politically, than those who voted later in the day. Maybe those at home during the day tend to vote early instead of waiting in line to vote after 5 PM.

    The AP article, “How The Nevada Exit Poll Was Conducted,” mentions none of this. And according to AP, “the interviewers selected voters at a set interval – such as every fifth person – so that each participant had an equal chance of being picked.” That just isn’t a truthful statement. As most introductory statistics texts point out, Systematic Sampling is not random, although it might eem equally fair to all voters.

    AP’s claim, “the results could vary because of chance variations in the sample,” is an accurate statement about precision (also loosely termed “margin of error"). However the problem with the early-release exit polling is not precision - it’s accuracy: the sample does not represent the population. The difference between accuracy and precision is like playing darts. If all darts thrown are clustered together, that’s good precision. But if they’re all together near the edge of the board when you’re aiming at the bullseye, that’s poor accuracy. AP is suggesting the poll may not have been accurate because of a precision problem. It would be more helpful if the pollsters would be upfront about the known shortcomings of their sampling method.

    The bottom line is: each member of the voting population must have the same chance of being selected for the sample poll. Whether the news media are responsible for the resulting confusion is another question!

    Comment by Paul Lanier — 11/5/2004 @ 10:50 am

  223. To all you still-spinning Republicans for Bush:
    You know there ARE dictators in this world, in fact Bush conned us into starting a war to depose the one who tried to hurt his daddy. How do you think they got to be dictators, hmmm? You think all their people just believed their b.s. and voted for them? I believe we have had a close-up example of how it is done. Dubya’s daddy was a CIA man for years, and if anybody knows how to do a takeover of a country, it would be him. Until those I trust can verify that this was an honest election, I will consider George W. to be an illegitimate president. And if he is waiting for this country to unite behind him, he will wait till hell freezes over!

    Comment by Anonymous — 11/5/2004 @ 11:24 am

  224. There were numerous reports filed. Some fool was saying why don’t you report it. My girlfriend was a pollwatcher and she made sure she documented all the discrepancies (there were a large number of them). She was going to fax those in the next day but, I made sure that we did that night itself.

    It is ridiculous that there is no way these results can be verified. It is inconceivable that nobody is doing anything about it.

    Comment by vinnie — 11/5/2004 @ 11:30 am

  225. It’s time to take back our country.

    A massive letter-writing, phone-calling, e-mailing and faxing campaign to your Representatives and Senators is a good place to start, along with contacting as many media sources possible. (Maybe not Fox News…) Don’t forget local media sources – your community newspapers, radio stations, TV stations, etc. The big (and afraid of the government) networks more than likely won’t touch this story until some local reporter gets some good, solid information.

    The class war is only in its infancy. We need to stop it now before it grows up and becomes the big bully. I don’t want corporations running my life. I don’t want my morality legislated to me.

    Hey, George W. Bush! We want our country back!

    Comment by Mixter — 11/5/2004 @ 11:43 am

  226. Extremely cogent argument by Greg Palast, at http://www.tompaine.com/print/kerry_won_.php, which also explains why exit polls were wrong; as last time with Gore in Florida, the exit polls in Ohio and elsewhere reflected the fact more people believed that they had successfully cast their punch card ballots for Kerry than the vote count reflected. The punch card ballot and other methods systematically undercount black and Hispanic vote, by a wide margin.

    Note that in a similar situation, in 2003, international pressure and organized protests forced Shevardnadze, the president of Georgia, to resign, when the official voting results were different from the exit polls. More on this at http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/11/21/georgia_protests031121

    Shevardnadze must resign: opposition
    Last Updated Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:53:41

    TBILISI, GEORGIA - A Georgian opposition leader called for President Eduard Shevardnadze to resign Friday as he led thousands of his supporters toward the capital, Tbilisi.

    Shevardnadze “must resign without bloodshed,” said Mikhail Saakashvili.

    As the protesters arrived in old cars, buses and minivans, the country’s security chief said they may a point.

    Security Council Secretary Tedo Dzhaparidze said that the Nov. 2 parliamentary elections were tainted by widespread fraud.

    Opposition parties have charged that the elections were rigged since preliminary results showed pro-government parties had prevailed, even though exit polls on voting day had shown the opposite result.

    The election commission confirmed the pro-government victory on Thursday, and Shevardnadze ordered the new parliament to convene on Saturday.

    The opposition reacted by saying they’ll try to keep that from happening, and calling for the president’s resignation.

    FROM NOV. 20, 2003: Georgian demonstrators will try to close parliament
    On Friday, Dzhaparidze echoed the opposition’s call for a new vote, suggesting the parliament convene temporarily. He warned that otherwise, the country could head into civil war.

    Written by CBC News Online staff

    Revolution in Georgia

    http://www.janes.com/regional_news/europe/news/jid/jid031126_1_n.shtml

    As JID predicted, Georgia’s 2 November parliamentary election has lead to turmoil (31 October 2003). After weeks of opposition protests and the storming of the parliament on 22 November, Eduard Shevardnadze resigned as president. He had ruled Georgia as interim leader and twice as president since returning to the country in 1992.

    The acting head of state, according to the Georgian constitution, is parliamentary speaker Nino Burjanadze, another opposition leader. Fresh parliamentary elections are to be held in 45 days.

    Election results made official after weeks of unofficial tallies were widely believed to be fraudulent. The conduct of the poll had already been denounced by the USA, Georgia’s largest international donor, as well as the EU and the OSCE.

    The central election commission claimed that the pro-Shevardnadze For a New Georgia coalition won a 21.3 per cent share. However, exit polls conducted by opposition groups gave The National Movement-Democratic Front (EM-DP) of Tbilisi city council chairman Mikhail Saakashvili first place.

    Saakashvili played the key role in organising street protests and the storming of parliament and other government buildings. Burjanadze, who opposed calls for Shevardnadze’s resignation and did not back street protests, has gained most from the president’s resignation. As acting head of state, she is well placed to capitalise on winning the next election. Rivalry between Saakashvili and Burjanadze is set to escalate.
    also below.

    Leonie Haimson

    Comment by Leonie — 11/5/2004 @ 11:59 am

  227. Some observations

    Zogby was polling a big electoral victory for Kerry with the electorate itself split evenly. The numerous states that polled for Kerry were of course also closely split, figures like 52/48. The confidence interval I saw quoted was 3%. So lets say five of these polled states “beat” the odds: i.e. the poll was off by 3% or more. I don’t know what confidence level was used, but lets say it was 90%, since it is usually at least that. The chances of five of these states beating the odds under these conditions is no better than (1/(10^5)) or 0.000001, i.e. 1% of 1% of 1%. Yes these are rough assumptions but they are generous. *Now* add the exit polling, and the likelihoods become even more ridiculous, far more unlikely than a straight flush in poker.

    As to the strident commenters posting “Do you really believe this stuff??? Can’t you think for yourself???", etc.: No matter how loud you shout, shit still doesn’t fall up.

    Another: computer voting machine maker Diebold is also a manufacturer of ATM software and machines. Could they get away with an ATM which *didn’t* print receipts?

    Comment by Willis — 11/5/2004 @ 12:05 pm

  228. FM claims that Ohio didn’t use many touchscreens. That is not true. I know for sure that they were used in Columbus, a major center of Ohio population. They used ones made by ES&S which were used in a very suspicious election in Nebraska on behalf of now Sen. Hagel, who was formerly the head of ES&S before he stepped down to run for election. See http://www.alternet.org ("Exit Polls Right, Tallies Wrong".)
    I lived in Ohio for 14 years and feel for the people there who tried their best to get rid of Bush and were foiled by probably rigged machines.

    Comment by “No Surrender” — 11/5/2004 @ 12:24 pm

  229. I’ve been saying for many years: it’s time to storm the Bastille. If we don’t reclaim our country, we’ll just have to accept the fact that we gave it away. We’re seeing that it’s being taken from us before our eyes.

    Civil war? I dared mention that on a message board and was flamed by one and all. The pinheads thought I was referring to the war between the North and the South back in the 1800s! That’s how stupid Americans have gotten; they don’t even know the meaning of words any more. The United States has become a nation of sheeple, groups that follow a herd instinct without thinking because thinking isn’t “in” any more. Civil war is definitely a possibility, but many sneered because they were sure Butterfly McQueen wasn’t going to come out with a bandanna around her head saying, “Miss Scarlett, I don’t know nothin’ about birthin’ babies!”

    Although I was born and educated in the United States, I lived outside the United States for over 22 years. When I came back in 1998, I had the worst culture shock of my life. Suddenly when a person wanted to demand his/her Constitutional rights, that was considered “whining.” Suddenly when a person demanded justice, that was “whining.” I don’t know what miscreant put this sick idea into the heads of Americans, but whoever did it should be tarred and feathered, because it sowed the seeds of destruction for democracy and the American way as our forefathers intended it to be. I can just hear it now: how would they have reacted if, when they were ready to issue the Declaration of Independence, someone came forward and said they were “whining"? That’s really what is the issue: standing up for one’s rights is “whining” today!

    What frightens me the most is that I am not convinced that Americans will even care enough to take back their own country. I’ve seen that they seem more than content to let these nay-saying types who call anyone who wants to have rights “whiners” run the show. In the end, the United States is united in name only and is run by a bunch of thugs who call anyone who opposes them “whiners.”

    The newest line has become, “If you don’t like it, leave.” It’s either do that or fight to take it back. Which will it be? I don’t see we have a choice. I’ve served in the military, so I’m not afraid. How many others would say the same – and would back it up with action?

    Comment by Daddy Kickass — 11/5/2004 @ 12:27 pm

  230. We are witness to the time when right-wing religionists and right-wing Muslims lay the groundwork for ending peaceful coexistence throughout the world. When they say they’ll fight to the death, they mean everyone’s. It is sad that the Bush supporters don’t yet see what they have done, and when they do it will be too late.

    Comment by A.S. Friedell — 11/5/2004 @ 12:36 pm

  231. I don’t know if there was or wasn’t fraud in this election, but I have no problem believing the neo-conservatives would try to do such a thing. They are addicted to power like a junkie is addicted to heroin and will do anything to get it.

    Even if there was no fraud in the election itself, that Bush would actually get a majority demonstrates pretty clearly that the system is broken. The rich have figured out how to manipulate the stupid people and, as the stupid people outnumber the smart ones in this country, things are only going to get worse.

    Comment by Matt — 11/5/2004 @ 12:47 pm

  232. The precinct where I was volunteering as a poll monitor in precinct 14W in Miramar, Florida, when the polls closed the supervisor only allowed the certified Poll Watcher to view the count of the vote. She recorded the serial number of the machines and one had erased some votes. I have a brief summary of what she gave me, there were 887 receipts (poll workers gave them to voters when they signed in) 882 signatures (sign in) and 35 provisional ballots given out.

    In Broward County Florida, they re-mapped the precincts and they did not notify the voters, so when the voters showed up at their usual precinct, they were not on the rolls, and were told to go to their new precinct, they did not find this out until they got inside. Some precincts knew where to send the voters but most did not, so many voters went around to 4 or 5 different places. Some people who got the precinct close to 7 PM and were told to go to another precinct were not going to make there on time.

    They were also giving out too many provisional ballots without knowing the precinct of the voters, so these votes won’t count if they are in the wrong precinct. We also noticed a pattern that more of the voters who had been relocated to another precinct were generally, Hispanic, Black, Haitian or Female.

    In Broward County, the computer scanner for the absentee ballots crashed and they have to be counted by hand.

    Of course, we also don’t know how many of the absentee ballots actually made it to the dept. of elections.

    Comment by carmen — 11/5/2004 @ 1:01 pm

  233. Note to “comment by FM": I am 50 yrs. old, make over 40,000/yr, I am a college graduate and I voted for Kerry. I don’t go to church because I don’t think my belief in God has to be verified by church officials who think they are God.

    Comment by DW — 11/5/2004 @ 1:10 pm

  234. Guys, it’s time to say it. They WON! Let’s get off it already. Americans chose mediocrity, americans are comfortable with mediocrity so let them have mediocrity. “Bread and games” is all they need.

    Comment by Chris — 11/5/2004 @ 1:23 pm

  235. Forget about all the exit polls for a minute. Every single poll prior to election had Bush winning by 2% or more, even the CBS poll.

    Other fact - the exit poll as described by CNN included only 13,000 people, not even close to 1,000 per state.

    The problem with exit polls is not the raw numbers, its how its scrubed. How they adjust the numbers for male/female, minority/ religion, income level etc. Early numbers as has been described were not scrubbed correctly.

    The only polls having Kerry ahead were these exit polls. CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, USA today/Gallop all had Bush ahead and were right.

    I repeat Ohio doesn’t have electronic no paper trail balloting. Almost all of Ohio has punch card balloting and precincts are run by heavily democratic workers.

    Conspiracy theory……..Not in Ohio

    Comment by FM — 11/5/2004 @ 1:44 pm

  236. I listened this morning on to small reports locally and nationally on public radio that the democratic and republican party want to make sure that the long lines do not happen in Ohio next time,
    and they are searching out ways in which to make Absentee Ballots easier to use (something Kenneth Blackwall supported several years ago). I think this idea of having ballots being sent without non-partisan checks and balances to oversee
    their arrival and to ensure that are counted is something
    we need to think long and hard about, especially given that in some states democratic voter registrations were alleged to have been tampered with.

    I think the issue is not with the number of machines, but HOW the machines are being dispersed. Our district used punch card ballots.

    I am glad that the after effects of the election are not as crazy and uncertain as they were four years ago (ok, somewhat glad). However, even with John Kerry conceding the election,
    it doesn’t seem right that here in Ohio we had no problems in the
    neighborhood I happen to live in with waiting in lines (a somewhat
    “affluent"/mostly Caucasian, mostly republican area
    (Bush rallied here with over 50,000 followers), the School district has been rated “Excellent” 3 yrs in a row,” and so on).

    There were over 5 punch card machines in my particular voting place (I think there were SEVEN, but I’m not certain), and, if I’m not mistaken, the street where I voted there was a School, a church, and a School (all right next to each other) which took voters from different parts of the West Chester
    neighborhood (and there were other voting places throughout this area, as it’s a pretty big suburb, with even 2 high schools).

    Yet in Hamilton County (ironically where the No Child Left Behind act was signed) and other non-affluent areas, only 2-3 punch card machines were available at most voting locations, and lines were as long as 4 hours – and in one place in Ohio, over 9 hours. Hmmmm.

    To be honest, I do not know if my district had long lines during the day (which would have warranted such a number of machines), since I voted early and was at work.
    Most people who I talked to here (such as spouse and in-laws, etc.) said that they didn’t have to wait too long when they voted during the day, though my co-workers in Dayton waited over an hour or more when they voted in the morning.

    Seems to me, in this day and age, that an equal amount of voting machines could be dispersed to all voting locations – or am I missing something? I’ve looked on the Internet for a Voting Location Map of some sort, to see precinct voting place lay-out, etc. but have yet to find anything. I’m trying to “breathe deep” and just carry on, but I also feel that in order to STOP any problems from occurring again next time, that everyone, republicans and democrats alike, need to look at how voting places are determined, and arrange for equality in dispersing the machines. I could have waited an hour or more (my boss wouldn’t have liked it, but I would have done it and
    just worked later) – others, needing to pick up children from school, or go to jobs that aren’t so forgiving, didn’t have this luxury. And, to me, this
    is completely UNdemocratic.

    Kind Regards.

    Tracy H.
    West Chester, OH (about 30 miles from Dayton (N) and Cincinnati (S)
    tnt@isoc.net

    Comment by Tracy — 11/5/2004 @ 1:49 pm

  237. Republicans should think before they call this whining. If Democrats have no reason to have faith in the electoral process, the have no reason to participate in the rest of society, to the detriment of all. It is in every one’s best interest to construct an electoral process that all americans have faith. Democrats accept losing, they do not accept being cheated.

    Comment by steve — 11/5/2004 @ 1:51 pm

  238. Anyone who has taken advanced mathematics and statistics knows that exit polls have a very unaccurate count, especially in rural areas which Bush won.

    It is also counter intuitive to use any exit polling results as an indicator of the winner especially when “every vote counts” - it is not a statistical anomoly to see these results unless you have direct access to their raw data including exit polling location, sample size, and any the other parameters.

    Another question may be did the exit polls slant their data toward one direction or another.

    Pete.

    Comment by Pete Puleo — 11/5/2004 @ 2:01 pm

  239. […] roneous” exit polls that showed Kerry carrying Florida and Ohio (among other states) weren’t erroneous at all – it was the numbers produced by paperless voting machines that were wr […]

    Pingback by The American Street » Was the Election Stolen Again???? — 11/5/2004 @ 2:05 pm

  240. We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore!

    Count all the votes, make every vote count and jail all those who
    mess with the numbers.

    Comment by M. Olson — 11/5/2004 @ 2:05 pm

  241. We are mad as hell and we are not going to take it any more!

    Count all the votes, make every vote count and jail those who
    steal anyone’s vote.

    Comment by M. Olson — 11/5/2004 @ 2:22 pm

  242. Yes, the voting system is mess.
    Yes, most people who follow the blogs didn’t want Bush to win.
    Yes, everyone has a right to be bitter and angry.

    But in the end, there really wasn’t a real choice. The country would not have been that much better if Kerry had won.

    Until there is a viable thrid party - you may as well just get used to this every four years.

    Comment by Heading North — 11/5/2004 @ 2:28 pm

  243. It’s time for a new party, folks. I’m sick of seeing rich Democrats bending over backwards to not offend the ignorant hordes. I’m tired of gutless candidates like Gore and Kerry, who ‘fight like hell’ and then concede with an ‘oh, well, we lost’ attitude when we all know this election was as crooked as San Fran’s Lombard Street. We’d have been better off with Howard Dean, who actually forced the top Dem hopefuls to show some backbone. This two-party system sucks. IT’S TIME FOR A REAL ALTERNATIVE.

    Comment by Diane — 11/5/2004 @ 2:46 pm

  244. Wow, and you Amorcans are just sitting there, allowing an unverifyable, dubious at best election dictate your future? I no longer feel sorry for Americans dying in Iraq. You make the bed you sleep in, and this bed is full of poop. Your own poop. George W. Bush is the perfect metaphor for America.

    Comment by Billy Mcgillicutt — 11/5/2004 @ 2:52 pm

  245. PRELIMINARY RESULTS ANALYZING VOTING PATTERNS IN OHIO COUNTIES

    We have been crunching voting results in Ohio and have discovered the following CONSISTENT PATTERN:

    First, using congressional voting, we divided Ohio counties into 2 groups:
    Group 1 - counties where congressional votes heavily favored Republicans;
    Group 2 - counties where congressional votes were close or heavily favored Democrats.

    In Group 1 counties, the number of ballots with no presidential vote were consistently 300 in 10,000 (3%).
    In Group 2 counties, the number of ballots with no presidential vote were consistently 600 in 10,000 (6%).

    That’s 3% additional ballots without a presidential vote recorded ONLY in counties that were not reliably Republican!

    We are beginning to see this SAME CONSISTENT PATTERN in other states.

    Comment by Kip Humphrey — 11/5/2004 @ 2:57 pm

  246. Practice makes Perfect for Thieves–

    I’m convinced that the slime that infests the white house stole another election, they are more subtle at the art now. I think too much attention is being paid to the “swing” states like Ohio and Florida however. It’s not that those states are/were unimportant, but I also think part of the plan included using the eVoting machines to pad the popular vote in red states that were forgone to the Republicans and thus not likely to be under much scrutiny.

    200,000 votes here, 50,000 there and pretty soon you have a bogus 3.5 million vote advantage which makes it politically impossible to question the results, even though they are as questionable or more so than last time.

    You know, your bank doesn’t even really credit your account with a deposit made to an ATM until they have actually seen and verified the cash or check (paper trail). But why am I not surprised, money talks and voting rights can walk.

    Glad I moved to Canada years ago

    Comment by rkewen — 11/5/2004 @ 2:58 pm

  247. We believe there is something VERY screwy about the exit poll results and the true vote count. WE believe that the exit polls were an out and out fraud designed to discourage Republican voters. We also believe the crap will hit the fan as it usually does.

    Comment by Republicans sick of the liberal Press — 11/5/2004 @ 3:08 pm

  248. By the way, I was one of the 50,000 in Florida who never received an absentee ballot…and I even called the ‘800′ number and they promised they were sending it ‘right out.’ I’m still waiting. But we all know why that happened, don’t we…..’they’ sure didn’t want a paper trail and given the tiny margin with which Bush took Florida in 2000, there was no way for ‘them’ to know he would get many more Floridian votes this time around. Those 50,000 absentee ballots that never went out would’ve made a big difference if Florida voting patterns had followed those of 2000. Maybe we ought to be thanking Bush for letting the auto weapons ban lapse. We should be stocking up….we might need those guns when the newly-legitimized christian crusader secret police come knocking on our doors.

    Comment by Diane — 11/5/2004 @ 3:14 pm

  249. Billy (#244):
    We’re not all just “sitting there” and “allowing” this to pass. There are people working on the investigation. “W” talks as if he had a mandate from the voters. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. I hope we find out soon one way or the other. In the meantime lets all try not to turn against each other in a search for scapegoats. If we screwed up, then we’ll learn from our mistakes and do better next time. If they, as I believe, stole the election, then we’re in for a rough ride for the foreseeable future. Bitter recriminations won’t help. I don’t know how you can get rid of a dictator peaceably. Maybe we’ll have to let the country stew in its own juices for a while until it’s painfully obvious, to even the most brainwashed Bushie, what a mess we’re in. It’s working, Bin Laden - bombs won’t be nescessary.

    Comment by “Wait and See” — 11/5/2004 @ 3:20 pm

  250. The Associated Press published an article 30 minutes ago about votes in Ohio going to Bush, because of an error in an electronic voting machine. It was ONLY 3,893 extra votes in a district that records show only cast 638 ballots in the election.

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_el_pr/voting_problems

    So much for conspiracy theory – the mainstream media is already starting to get involved. We need to act, people!

    Hey, George W. Bush. We want our country back!

    Comment by Mixter — 11/5/2004 @ 3:42 pm

  251. I wish the “expanded” version of that bar graph was actually MORE legible than the one in the page!

    Comment by Cuyler Brooks — 11/5/2004 @ 3:52 pm

  252. This doesn’t surprise me in the least. Bush has lied his way through the first four years, I wouldn’t put it past him and his cronies to rig the polls in any way they can. In a couple years, when so many sons and daughters have died in Iraq and when the entire world hates us, we’ll see if the Republicans still stand behind their stalwart *cough* leader. But by then, it will be too late to mend the pieces…no, Bush is taking us down with him and it’s going to be a long crawl back to the nation that *could* be great, but is now led by a bullying cowboy wannabe. Not all of us Democrats are liberal beyond imagination…I wish the moderate Repblicans would stand up and say ‘enough’ to his antics.

    Comment by Disgusted-in-Washington — 11/5/2004 @ 4:05 pm

  253. The most pathetic thing about this election is the complete sense of denial on the part of the Democratic party supporters. Let me illustrate:
    1. Phantom voting machines? It must be because a corporation made them only count bush votes. I will have to inform all of you that every piece of electronics we have is made by a corporation, 99% of which support reupublicans. What did you think some cobbler made voting machines by hand one at a time?

    2. Asking people who they voted for is so much more accurate than counting the ballots. As if some guy walking up to random people asking them questions would be the best indicator. If you also listen to the people that produce these polls, they were never intended to predict a winner, just the viewpoints of those that voted. They always fall within the margin of error. And in 3rd world countires they aRe used to make sure that nobody Wins with 99% of the vote ALA Saddam.

    3. Religious nuts and stupid people highjacked the country. Just in case anyone on here has an education, the south used to be predominantly democrat. Before hippie generation infused a socialist agenda into the party. The Dems used to have blue collar ideals and a working class ethic. Now it is the party of out of the mainstream fringe groups. CALLING PEOPLE, IGNORANT, BACKWARD OR OTHER RUDE NAMES GOES TO ILLUSTRATE HOW INTOLERANT DEMOCRATS ARE. EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU IS NOT STUPID. MOST PEOPLE THAT GRADUATE FROM HARVARD DISAGREE WITH YOU. MOST BUSINESSPEOPLE DISAGREE WITH YOU. THE FORTUNE 500 DISAGREE WITH YOU. IS THE ENTIRE BUSINESS WORLD MENTALLY HANNDICAPPED?
    IF YOU ARE SO MUCH SMARTER THEN WHY DID YOU NOT HAVE THE WINNING CAMPAIGN?
    Listen to Barak Obama and get back in the mainstream.

    Comment by the illuminati — 11/5/2004 @ 4:09 pm

  254. This entire thing disgusts me and is now distracting me from making a living for my family. I will do my part and spread the truth in hope that those that are able to fight will do theirs. Truth and justice is a long and noble fight. Gird your loins, my friend!

    More Truth: See Kerry Won…

    Comment by Billl — 11/5/2004 @ 4:09 pm

  255. Why would we let this continue to happen in our country. Sure we should focus on the upcoming years, however, if this just continues to happen, what will change it from happening again.

    Complain.

    Comment by Gando — 11/5/2004 @ 4:16 pm

  256. There are 3 main reasons that exit polling was wrong:

    1. The raw data was scrubbed incorrectly

    2. There were a significant number of democrats and republicans in democratic precincts that were embarrased to admit they voted for Bush.

    3. Its been proven that Democrats are dumber than republicans and punch the wrong chad or fill in the wrong block more often.

    Comment by FM — 11/5/2004 @ 4:17 pm

  257. I’m sorry, y’all, but none of this rises to the level of journalistic or legal proof. This is UFOlogy. You think that Bush orchestrated several states using machines from different companies to skew the vote count on the order of 3 1/2 million votes? You guys are seriously smokin’ the drapes, as my friend from Little Rock used to say. You need to get off this conspiracy theory wack-ness and face the facts: The rednecks outnumber us. It’s their country now.

    Comment by Dan B. — 11/5/2004 @ 4:20 pm

  258. I don’t understand why any judge would ever rule against the use of paper receipts, which would prevent tomfoolery by either party. Isn’t democracy important anymore?

    Comment by Mike — 11/5/2004 @ 4:20 pm

  259. How’s this, Bush not just Four more years but EIGHT OR MORE years. Think that those right wing frigging #@$#@%^$# aren’t thinking about how to make that happen…think again.

    Comment by Nut job — 11/5/2004 @ 4:30 pm

  260. I must say, I love living in this country. And, even though I don’t show it, I AM proud to be an American.

    However, I am not proud of that fact that our government is full of liars and crooks (both Republicans and Democrats, and whatever parties hold office).

    The separation of parties is ridiculous. Yes, I know there are different views on different issues, but fighting about them constantly gets us, as a country, NOWHERE.

    I’m not of voting age, but, if I were given the chance to have cast a ballot on November 2nd, I would have chosen John Kerry.

    Why?

    First off, I’d like to say that I don’t affiliate myself with any party in particular.

    Secondly, I believe that George W. Bush had his chance, and he has shown the entire world that he makes a horrible president. I feel that I have been screwed out of my future because the majourity of Americans lack the foresight of their actions. And, when I heard the poll results, I seriously considered moving to Canada until 2008.

    But, being proud to have the rights that I do, I will remain here. Even though the Patriot Act technically takes away a little bit of my right to free speech, I figure toughing it out for another four years will prove worth it when we have someone who’s not an inept imbecile in office.

    Until then, I pray that Mr. Bush won’t piss off North Korea and get the crud nuked out of us.

    Comment by Pho — 11/5/2004 @ 4:50 pm

  261. If you can’t even steal an election, how in the world could you hope to run a country.

    Comment by Jerry H — 11/5/2004 @ 4:59 pm

  262. I’d like to say I’m surprised by this obviously rigged election, but I’m not. No way was this power-hungry administration going to let go of it’s dead grip on america. We are so screwed.

    Comment by Marcie — 11/5/2004 @ 5:02 pm

  263. IN RESPONSE TO BILLY MCGILLICIT:

    First of all, it is AMERICANS, not Amorcans…

    Secondly, if you feel that Americans who disagree with our president are just sitting around and doing nothing, then you’re wrong but there is only so much that a mere citizen can accomplish when the corporate dogs and the government have all the tools and the power. As much as some of us might think it would be better without Bushes on this planet, we can’t just go and assassinate him.

    And how, may I ask, is Bush a perfect metaphor for America? That doesn’t even make sense. Bush is too agressive and you are claiming that Americans aren’t aggressive enough in your comment. Hmm, strange. Doesn’t make sense buddy so just keep your dumbass comments to yourself and stay in your own country if you don’t like us.

    Comment by Theresa — 11/5/2004 @ 5:12 pm

  264. The hate and intolerance being spewed by those on the left is amusing given that they’ll turn around and say they’re all for freedom of speech, the right to self-expression etc. Seems like the right to express oneself only applies if your’re on the left. There is a seething hatred and disdain that those on the left have for most Christians that doesn’t seem to have realized until now that there are a whole hell of a lot more of these people out there than they though, and the more these people see of the extreme leftists bashing the USA and the president who they prefer the MORE likely they are to go out and support him. (I myself am not religious, I’m pro-choice, and I don’t have any problem with the idea of gay marriage, bring it on). But I’m almost forced to vote Republican. I can’t stand the type of leftist, anti-capitalist types we see acting so rudely to Republicans, for instance, at the memorial service held for Senator Paul Wellstone. Don’t you get it? That turns people off more than anything Bush could do. The left is going to have to at least respect the fact that people do disagree with them and that they need to talk TO these people, not DOWN to them. I know the hard-core cult-like true believers on the left can’t comprehend that kind of thinking so it’ll be up to the more moderate types that don’t feel the need to shout down anyone who says something with which they disagree. I was a lot more of a progressive entering college at the University of Texas. It only took a few meetings at various politically inclined groups to be completely turned off by the leftists. I never met a group of more intolerant hateful and frankly insecure people in my life. There was no room for discussion, no room for debate, you either bought into the entire leftist dogma or you would, literally, be surrounded by people who were basically trying to brainwash you, and if that didn’t take, shout you down until you left. That’s not freedom, that’s as repressive as anything done by the far right.

    Comment by John — 11/5/2004 @ 5:16 pm

  265. Dan B…

    Look at the huge “coincidental” disparity? The graph shown clearly shows that the paper ballots vs. the exit polls’ results are almost exactly accurate (or within reason), and the electronic ballots vs. the exit polls’ results are ALL in favor of Bush!

    Coincidence?! I think not.

    You’d have to be blind if you can’t see the corruption that Bush has spread throughout this country and encourages on a daily basis and the funniest part about it, is that people are actually turning their heads and shrugging it off like it is nothing.

    Comment by Theresa — 11/5/2004 @ 5:18 pm

  266. Skimming some of these comments, I have a couple replies. First, at least one of the major media outlets IS talking about the discrepancy between the exit polls and the final results…Fox. My republican husband and Fox fan told me this morning they are saying the liberal media deliberately misrepresented the exit polls in an attempt to influence the voters! The very fact that they are working to put a spin on this to me looks like a “where there is smoke, there’s fire” situation.

    The other comment I noticed was about the rednecks now running the country. I live in a county of approx. 9000 in rural eastern Ky. (probably fits the description of redneck country) and Kerry won it! Kinda makes you wonder, doesn’t it!

    And to anyone who doesn’t think computers, including voting machines, can be hacked, have you missed the news stories over the years about bright college students going to prison for hacking into Ma Bell and supposedly secure govt. departments? Or the stories about viruses being planted by even brighter people who don’t get caught?

    Comment by KyLaurel — 11/5/2004 @ 5:20 pm

  267. Well, it’s official. There was a ‘glitch’ in the Florida voting machines. I invite you all to read the Amendment 4 article in Fort Lauderdale’s Sun-Sentinel, today’s edition. And ruminate on this for a while…I happen to be working for one of the attorneys on the Kerry Edwards Florida Legal Team. According to him, the votes were being tallied on the ’slot machine’ amendment in Florida, and when the vote reached a certain number, the machines began COUNTING DOWN. Story Developing……

    Comment by Mad As Hell — 11/5/2004 @ 5:21 pm

  268. What a bunch of ankle biters!! Grow up & Get over it.

    It was a fair election - you had 10,000 lawyers watching the damn thing. Next, we’ll here Halliburton stole it.

    Hey here’s a clue, perhaps the inexact art of exit polls don’t really match that of the casted ballot!!!!!

    BTW, Zogby had Kerry winning it w/ 311 EV before the polls opened. Geezzzz! Maybe you should direct your hate at the main stream media for fucking your little world.

    Comment by Jim — 11/5/2004 @ 5:35 pm

  269. One last observation from FM,

    Michael Moore doesn’t represent America
    Hollywood doesn’t represent America
    Bruce Springstien doesn’t represent America
    Liberals from state of MA doesn’t represent America
    George Soros doesn’t represent America

    All these people above drive America farther to the right. The are pacifists that can’t begin to understand the world as it exists. Hollywood instead of donating money to help the causes they say they stand for instead raise money by donating other peoples money.

    The fact is every time the democrats think the republicans are vunerable they send the most liberal guy they can find Dukakis, Gore, Mondale and now Kerry. If you would have sent a moderate into the ring he would have won!

    I am sure glad that by the next chance you have to win, 10 million new jobs will be created (same no matter who was elected) and Iraq will be judged a overwhelming success since the unintended result is we got the stupid terrorists to come to Iraq and fight against the best soldiers in the world instead of trying to kill us here. Kerry is Naive enough to think that all the terrorists are still in Afghanistan.

    They are in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, etc. There is only two ways to get to them. Invade all these countries (Ain’t going to happen) or draw them to our soldiers in Iraq.

    One other unintended positive result. Our military (Already the best in the world) will be better because we will get rid of all the soldiers that only signed up for the free college and replace them with soldiers that understand that one day they may actually have to fight for our country

    Comment by FM — 11/5/2004 @ 5:36 pm

  270. HERE’S THE DEAL ….. WE BEGIN BY CANCELLING OUR CABLE TELEVISION, HIGH SPEED ACCESS, (HIT THE LIBRARIES)
    CONGREGATE, AFFILIATE AND SMACK THE BASTIDS WHERE THEY ONLY HEAR …. IN THE FRIGGIN POCKETBOOK …

    Comment by J SUDS — 11/5/2004 @ 6:25 pm

  271. I laugh at your insane losers.

    While you sit around and dream up conspiracy theories and point the finger at everyone but yourselves.

    Try looking in the mirror if you don’t like the way people are voting.

    Comment by Normal Person — 11/5/2004 @ 7:01 pm

  272. I NEVER SUPPORTED THE DEATH PENALTY BEFORE, BUT IF THERE WAS VOTER FRAUD AT THIS LEVEL, I THINK IT IS TREASON AND SHOULD BE TREATED THAT WAY. IT DOES MORE DAMAGE TO OUR COUNTRY THAN OSAMA EVER COULD DO!

    Comment by CHUCKS — 11/5/2004 @ 7:01 pm

  273. I’m seeing some of these “get over it” neocon postings, and to them, I’d post one question: were the situation reversed, would you say the same thing? I know the answer: no way in Hell.

    I was never a Kerry fan, and I have no love for Bush because his performance in office has been anything but impressive. The Libertarian Party is the only party I feel that was worth supporting, but it did not make its platform known to enough voters to stand a chance – and Americans are too small-minded to try anything except for the tried-and-true old guard corruption parties. So the mess continues. I think had Kerry won, it wouldn’t have been great, either, but at least the people would have had some hopes for change. This time, hopes have been dashed.

    What alarms me the most is the boorish behavior I see in the American public, which I find too disgusting for words. I find nothing to be proud of in a nation of street brawling thugs. The Republican supporters have made crudeness their trademark, a far cry from the Republican Party of the Sixties, so far, in fact, that I can’t believe they could be the same party.

    It’s not a surprise to me that the Canadian Embassy reports six times the normal number of hits on their immigration site dating from November 3. How many people will actually emigrate remains to be seen, but I don’t think people would be visiting the Web site if they didn’t have serious thoughts about taking some action in that direction. I can well understand them, not so much because of Bush in office as because of the foul behavior of the people on the streets in the United States that now has become the social norm.

    It seems to me that the entire country lost in this election.

    Comment by Daddy Kickass — 11/5/2004 @ 7:02 pm

  274. […] or some states with paper ballotts and some with electronic voting machines. There’s more here, which is where I found the link to the graphs. […]

    Pingback by Illruminations » Here it is, the data I’ve been waiting for — 11/5/2004 @ 7:57 pm

  275. All you rude Republican who are pretending to be so hurt by our suspicions about Bush seem to have forgotten how you all foamed at the mouth when the name of President Clinton was mentioned. Talk about conspiracy theories - you had some lulus. Clinton was supposed to have had hundreds of people murdered, according to your paranoid fringe. After years of trying to get him convicted or impeached, the worst you could come up with was that he had an affair with a willing intern. HE didn’t go around starting unnescessary wars, spending our money like a drunken sailor, and destroying our natural resources like this joker is doing. You just couldn’t stand Clinton because he is a Democrat and you Republicans feel a sense of entitlement to winning presidential elections. If you can’t win them honestly and fairly, let alone with any measure of civility, you consider yourselves justified in lying, cheating, and doing anything that will help you win. So don’t lecture us about hate and intolerance. And if you’re not a progressive or a liberal, get the hell off our website!

    Comment by “Fed up with snoops” — 11/5/2004 @ 8:23 pm

  276. Well, the voter fraud scandals are starting to surface. Looks like Bush picked up an extra 6,000 votes in one Ohio county due to a computer ‘glitch.’ How many counties are there in Ohio? 6,000 x number of counties…What was Bush’s margin of victory in Ohio? This after the head of Diebold said in 2003 that he was going to do everything in his power to deliver Ohio to Bush. And we all know they didn’t limit themselves to just Ohio…a few thousand here, ten thousand there, spread it out so nobody really notices and before you know it, Bush has his ‘mandate’ to start WWIII and send us all to the poorhouse.

    I want some answers and I want them from the DNC and our Democratic elected officials.

    1. Knowing the potential for fraud with no paper trail and the brazen statement by Diebold’s head, why did they allow these machines to be used without so much as a peep??? They had four years to do SOMEthing, on a state or national level. Why didn’t Democratic governors and state legislators insist on paper ballots?? Has our national love affair with technology robbed us of our freedom to elect our leaders? (Orwell must be laughing like hell.) Paper and pencil was good enough for Washington and Jefferson…it’s good enough for us.

    2. Knowing of the potential for fraud and Diebold’s promise, why did Kerry roll over so quickly??? Why not wait to see what surfaced? Was he afraid he would lose his ‘popularity’ or disrupt ‘the system??’ He seemed to be fighting like hell for the job, but I guess he didn’t want it that badly. I feel totally betrayed by Mr. Senator from Massachusetts. Turns out Edwards was the smarter, gutsier guy..he wanted to fight on.

    The Democratic Party is going to have to undergo a major overhaul before they get another vote out of me. We would’ve been better off with men of real principle, like Dean or Kucinich, who had the guts to make the truthful, albeit unpopular statements. Sure, we would’ve lost anyway, but we would have fought the good fight, taking the offensive instead of rolling with the punches. But the Dems chose hundred dollar haircuts over principle.

    The Democrats better get out of this mindset of pussyfooting around issues so as not to offend people. This idea they seem to have of embracing religion and ‘moral values’ (i.e., radical christian dogma) and of striving for a more centrist position is going to end up eroding the foundation of the Party.

    Note to Howard Dean: why not take a cue from Ross Perot and create your own party…the Democratic Party is a dinosaur with no teeth. It might take a decade or two, Dr. Dean, but do us a favor and help us out here. You’ll have my vote.

    Comment by Diane — 11/5/2004 @ 8:28 pm

  277. Another round of Hail To The Thief.

    Comment by Marty from Valley Stream — 11/5/2004 @ 8:33 pm

  278. RIGGED VOTERS’ DATABASES BEHIND THE SCENE
    Exit Polls Right, Tallies Wrong?
    WHY did the exit polls differ SO drastically from the so-called polling results?

    Bush thanks �The architect� KARL ROVE

    I JUST READ “CRIMES OF THE RIGHT", WHICH I ORDERED FROM AMAZON.COM.
    THE BEST-SELLING BOOK �CRIMES OF THE RIGHT� BY AUTHOR “HOPE NEWMAN” WAS PUBLISHED A MONTH BEFORE THE ELECTION.
    THE BOOK AMAZINGLY LAYS OUT THE EXACT ELECTION RESULTS THAT WE FACED, AND HOW IT WAS ACHIEVED WITH DIEBOLD�S HELP.
    “Diebold CEO, Wally O�Dell, who is the largest Bush donor, and the manufacturer of the electronic voting machines, called Karl Rove at 4:00 a.m. to acknowledge that the voting databases were on track for Bush. Earlier in the evening, he relayed similar assurance to Jeb, and Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood. This time they fixed the databases behind the scene.”

    Comment by WrnBuffet — 11/5/2004 @ 8:40 pm

  279. Did you expect any less from Bush & Company? Obviously all who are on this site are here via computer, and we all know how reliable computers are. To expect black box voting machines to reflect the “truth” of voting is nothing more than misguided faith in technology. When you add in the potential for fraud you gurantee that, at the very least, there will be those who cannot, by their nature, resist the opportunity to direct the outcome to their advantage. The signals were there: voting machine executives didn’t hide their intent and Congress refused to require a paper trail of the votes. I love technology, but I feel that technology is about as faithful to us as a TV preacher at a hookers’ convention. The Republicans benefit both financially and politically from these machines. To change the situation we must not forget about the potential for fraud but must turn our attention toward changing the Senate and House in 06. To steal elections has long been the goal of many in our history. Our main task now is to head off this new way to do it before it becomes institutionalized in the former USA.

    Comment by Bryan A. Blake — 11/5/2004 @ 9:01 pm

  280. Rush was very distraught early on election day–he said the founding fathers had it right– that only property owners should be allowed to vote, stupid students, high school drop outs should not be allowed….spookey frame of thinking.

    As you know, as rush goes, so goes bush.

    Comment by corky M. — 11/5/2004 @ 9:53 pm

  281. I just sent the following email to Zogby international asking for an explanation in the discrepancy between the exit polling and the results:

    Why were the exit polls wrong? And why did you take down your recent statement about trying to get to the bottom of why, and replace it with a statement saying that you got it right, and then showing a Zogby/Reuters poll instead of your exit polls? If the numbers were off, those who trust your polling information have a right to know what went wrong and what is the probability that if nothing went wrong that such a discrepancy could occur?

    Thank you,
    Scott Caplan

    Comment by Scott Caplan — 11/5/2004 @ 11:48 pm

  282. Well, I expected the outcome, but was indeed surprised how such a transparently corrupt method of achieving the evil deed was allowed to happen - and with little to no opposition, or even hinting at questioning the outcome, by the Kerry Campaign. I never did fully trust that bastard. He happily collected all our contributions, without tapping the enormous wealth of his wife, and squandered our hopes before the last votes were counted.
    And, if you will recall, he was thought to be the “most electable” of all the candidates by gaining momentum through an odd form of balloting, the Caucuses. These are not secret ballots, but a count of heads. Sure, it’s reliable, but it’s also prone to influence by the hundreds of other heads moving room to room. Democracy? What’s that? Now these votes, despite mounting evidence of fraud, will never will be counted. Anyone even questioning the accuracy, in this “democracy” (where we are supposedly encouraged to question the validity of our own government) is immediately derided as either a “whiner” or a “conspiracy theorist". No dialogue, whatsoever, is permitted by those in power. This is analogous to the English Fiefdom that we revolted against three hundred years ago and I see no reason to hold back on the same course of action now. Everything is at stake. Our country’s key tenets, which we have invaded Iraq to support and propel, are crumbling piece by piece at home. Republicans seem to care more about “winning” than preserving the freedom and democracy experienced by America’s very own citizens. This is a scary scary state of events, people. We are doomed to come full-circle with the atrocities of the ’40s. Except now, there is no country, no coalition, that could stand in our way (short of simply nuking us - go figure that one of Bush’s major weapons developments involves an integrated missile defense system…). Like “Mien Kampf"(sp?), the ultra-right that are currently in power have already outlined their plans in a simple, 90 page document entitled, “Rebuilding America’s Defense Systems: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century". Several of the members of Bush’s cabinet have signed the mission statement drawn up by the author of this document, including Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and let’s not forget Jeb Bush (members of the Project for the New American Century). Many of the proposals of this document have already taken place, and many other aspects are underway. Securing the middle east, installing democracy, and preserving American interests in this region, are ACTUALLY written in this document. These hawks no longer need to show the restraint used by most politicians when re-election is at stake. With this year’s election results in hand, and the electronic voting machines in place–with more being shipped out for the next round (when Arnold will stroll into office via an amendment to the constitution)–our democracy is at its flailing end. And who could be happier than the Republicans, champions of freedom and business. Fair play, they tend to argue, should be used for taxation, but apparently not for voting. Unless the thinking people (soon to be declared “enemies of the state") are able to make enough noise, in large enough numbers, to make their voices heard throughout the world that this was NOT our will we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. High unemployment rates, a strangled media, record deficits, a bilateral invasion force, DNA SAMPLING of arrestees (they may or may not be charged, but that DNA will surely remain in jail), the inability to sue any company that has harmed you, faith based initiatives, overturning Roe v. Wade, the use of cameras on the streets of L.A. to allow police to monitor public activity, and preferential treatment of key corporations to keep that oil a flowin’…ah, smells like fascism has returned.

    Some of the others are right, there are still avenues of protest that can be taken, but with the current stranglehold of the media on our society, and by the white house, protestors are now deemed as whining liberals who are never happy when they don’t win. We have been framed! Framed as complainers and dissenters rather than the true representatives of the faint remnants of this country and what it used to uphold: democracy. The media, in all it’s FOX NEWS and AM radio forums, are going to echo this notion until we either succumb and “go red” or are completely disenfranchised to the outskirts of mainstream society. Electronic voting is but one piece to the evil little puzzle to ensure that our dictator remains our dictator. Face it, democracy is lost. I agree with the other poster that stated Red is indeed the perfect color to represent the Republican party (soon to be simply known as “the party"). I’m considering moving to Canada (not in the middle east, free health care, and no oil to invade and steal) to escape the Orwellian nightmare that lay before us all.

    But while I’m still here, I’m going to fight this bull**** to the bitter bitter end. I urge you all to do the same, and in doing so, please attempt to contact your local/national media (hey, it’s worth a shot) and your representatives/senators to put the spotlight on this fraudulent enterprise.

    Sincerely hoping in vain for impeachment on the grounds of voter fraud, followed by trial for war crimes,
    Shannon

    Comment by Shannon — 11/6/2004 @ 12:00 am

  283. Turns out Bush was right–Kerry WAS flip-flopper and weak!! “We’re going to count every vote!” and then he concedes to this FRAUD! We saw this coming for the last four years, and when Bush was saying he was “confident of victory"?? We’re living in a banana republic!

    100 years later and we’ve got robber barons and need to fight for the right to vote all over again. But nonviolent protest is an effective political weapon. 85 students in Boulder had a sit-in. When do we start?? We need to get that graph on the front page of the NYTimes.

    Comment by Laurie — 11/6/2004 @ 12:15 am

  284. I was in Ohio to campaign for Kerry in the last three days of the election. I was in a democratic neighborhood, but there were still people who came to vote for Bush (obvious because of their response when I tried to give them a copy of the democratic ticket – they’d start to prentend I didn’t exist, though some would respond politely when I wished them a good day).

    There were a lot of white working class people – especially including unions – who voted for Kerry. And sure enough, the vote was very close – 51 to 48 isn’t a wide margin, though it’s too wide to challenge. I believe the votes in Ohio were probably accurate, given the results for the anti-gay-marriage-and-all-domestic-partner-programs proposition. I’m not sure I believe the votes in Florida because I think the spread is wider than is likely given polling numbers; but I suspect Bush would have one the actual totals as well, so I see little point in challenging.

    But as a reality check: Bush did alright outside the conservative religious base he commands because people think he might be successful (and it is possible to make that arguement, though I don’t believe it). If his presidency is as much of a disaster as I (and other progessives) expect, then we may well have much less difficulty winning next time. OTOH – if it turns out well, I’ll be happy about that (though I distrust and dislike republicans) – but we’ll have been wrong about the dangers of another Bush presidency and overreacting now.

    Some of the dangers are long-term, but more are likely to show up in the short term. This country has some very painful adjustments coming; Bush hasn’t started preparing us, but Kerry would also have had a hard time doing it. I think things are likely to get much worse (and the traditional conservatives are likely to break with the religious conservatives) before they get better, but after spending time living outside this country (I disliked Bush 4 years ago, and lived in Japan for a year), I think it is worth fighting for America.

    Comment by linuxotaku — 11/6/2004 @ 12:44 am

  285. This is fraud on a massive scale. This means WAR with the elite scum behind the curtain. Absolutely no compromise now or ever. These people belong behind bars, and we the people will see to it until the last person is gone.

    Comment by anonymous — 11/6/2004 @ 1:04 am

  286. The first thing we have to contend with is the following: Recently, on Airamerica radio, a congressman called in and said that the Republicans have written a bill to be introduced in their regular session in January which will do away with the IRS and replace it with a 30% federal tax on BOTH goods and services. This tax will be in addition to state and local taxes. For me, this will be a huge increase in the cost of food, housing, clothing, etc. - the necessities of life. Its depressing to know that they have the votes to pass it without opposition in both the House and Senate. This is going to hit the unemployed and persons earning less than $40,000 a year really hard. Basically, we will all be supporting the big corporations, who don’t pay taxes anymore.

    Is it possible for the blue states to cecede? If we all chose a day to demonstrate by marching on our capitals to demand it, wouldn’t that be better than taking on the federals? Okay, so I’m dreaming… but we have to DO something!! The America we’ve known will be bankrupted and destroyed before the evil W’s 4 years are up and we’ll be left with no rights and no jobs. We need a leader to help us prevent these facists from destroying our country!

    Comment by Sharon — 11/6/2004 @ 1:09 am

  287. One thing that had me worried BEFORE the election was the numerous pop-ups asking “who would you vote for". When I clicked on one of these pop-ups casting my “vote” I got a form that said I couldn’t “vote” or view the results untill I provided quite a bit of detailed personal information; name, address, e-mail etc.

    It occured to me that such information and statistics could be used in any number of ways by anyone who might be in a possition to rig the election, exactly what jurisdictions to target, how many votes to add or subtract, but not so many as to raise suspicions, what names to delete from electronic voting machines or add to bogus felon lists etc. etc. etc.

    Before the election my computer was flodded with such pop-up surveys.

    Needless to say, when I saw that all this information was required I closed the window, but it’s still possible that the vote and IP address were recorded and this could still be used for statistical purposes (ie. what districts to target etc.)

    Comment by Tom — 11/6/2004 @ 2:13 am

  288. So exit polling is always right? Most people who actually have a life will tell the poll taker to take a hike. This is why a larger percentage of liberals get over represented in these types of polls.

    Comment by Fred Stein — 11/6/2004 @ 2:33 am

  289. We don’t have to concede squat. It’s a non-partisan issue. These machines should be illegal and any idiot knows it. Get you patoot to blackboxvoting.org and support Nader’s recount. Anyone who thinks Americans should accept corporations running and operating voting machines and counting votes should have their heads examined.

    Comment by Sue — 11/6/2004 @ 3:02 am

  290. Someone spiked the cool-aid over here I see. Ever considered that a simple explanation might make more sense than a crazy conspiracy theory about the exit polls? Perhaps intimidated voters didn’t want to admit who they voted for to the pollsters for fear of retribution from enraged leftist activists? Given some of their behavior it seems like a realistic fear.

    Dave
    http://www.diablog.us

    Comment by Dave Nalle — 11/6/2004 @ 3:22 am

  291. Don’t forget to make sure Cheney is impeached first. It’s obvious to anyone paying attention, that this admin is full of crooks. If you read “Rebuilding America’s Defenses", the right wing drivel signed by Wolfowitz, Pearl, Cheney, Rummy and the rest of the PNAC gallery in the late 90s, they talk about taking over the middle east. They believe that as the last remaining super power we should take action to control all of the worlds valuable resources. They mention that the American people will not want to go along with their plan, so they need a catylizing and horrible event “Like a New Pearl Harbor” to bring the people together so they will support these plans. There are far to many inconsistancies in the official story of what happened on 911 to discount the probability that there was collution by members of our government holding the highest offices in the land. They established motive themselves in the previously mentioned document. They had opportunity. Bush had longstanding ties with the Bin Laden family. They were running “war games” at the time to keep the airforce away long enough to get it done. They definitely saw there power increase by huge amounts after 911. There is no doubt about that. All curcumstantial of course, but a good investigator starts there and collects evidence to make the case. Plenty of people have been collecting this evidence, I don’t see anyone bringing the case into the courts yet.

    If they would do something like that, why would we be surprised that they would steal another election? A little voter intimidation here, a few faulty voting machines in mostly democratic neighborhoods there. Voter registrations drives where democratic registration forms are tossed in the trash. Long lines to vote in poor neighborhoods, an hour or less of a wait in Republican neighborhoods. The ways of influencing the outcome goes on and on. Then if that is not enough, they just make up the difference with the e-voting machine software. Makes me wonder how much Kerry would have won by, had it been a fair election.

    They say we can’t impeach because impeachment proceeding start in the House which is dominated by Republicans. I say that if we build a strong enough case against this group, even Republicans will listen. They are not ALL in on it. These people in power right now are not “Your Father’s Republican Party", and I think many Republicans are becoming aware of that.

    Gather together evidence. Bombard all the representatives in your state with it until they have to listen. I have no idea what will happen with the Prez, the Veep and most of the Cabinet charged with treason and other crimes against the state, but it sure will be interesting to find out.

    Comment by An Optimist — 11/6/2004 @ 5:31 am

  292. The Democrats had four years to block the use of computers. Everybody knows that having a “black box” swallow your vote is stupid to the extreme. Let’s pretend you gave the voter a two-part print out - one he/she keeps, the other is used by exit pollers as verification of the reported “official results.” Maybe, this might help. But, the Democrats sat back and did all the wrong things. Now, it’s four more years of a regime that half the country and half the world hates. The Democrats blew it. They could stop Bush now by denying him a quorum in Congress, but they won’t do that either. No guts. The Democrats could ask the American people to mount a Washington sit-in (10 million protesters might do the trick) until Bush-Cheney-DeLay etc., resign. It will never happen. The Democrats could call for a Nation-wide strike and boycott. They won’t. So it’s four more years, during which I predict, Bush will appoint himself “President for Life,” order the Constitution repealed, and all political parties to be disbanded. Then all the voting machines will be discarded, and sold to the Provisional Governmental Authority of Iraq.

    Comment by Harold S Kramer — 11/6/2004 @ 5:32 am

  293. The reason elcetions are based on the “real” poll rather than an ‘exit’ poll is because people like me, think that people like exit pollsters are prats (a derogatory uk slang expression) who should not be told the truth about a secret ballot, so if asked how I voted, I lie.

    The reason I think ‘exit Pollsters’ are Prats, is because they actually think I’m going to tell the truth, and so base articles and web sites, rather like this, on the ’shock’ result. You people really ought to grow up, I’d hate to think that people so obviously stupid ever get to run a major country!

    Comment by John — 11/6/2004 @ 6:15 am

  294. “An exit poll involves asking someone after they walk out of the election booth who they voted for. While not a guide for proving results, it can be a mechanism for ensuring voting accuracy and flagging potential fraud. Exit polls were recently used in Venezuela to ensure the vote was accurate and legitimate.”

    It’s ironic that in Venezuela, when the rightwingers lost the recall election, they screamed vote fraud despite the lack of any evidence for it. But now in U.S., the rightwingers scream “conspiracy theory” when allegations of vote fraud are raised despite the hard evidence that Bush got thousands more votes in some precincts than there were voters to cast them. Such is life.

    Comment by L.Fleming — 11/6/2004 @ 11:20 am

  295. Personally, I knew Bush would win and the voting machines would help him along. The next four years we will just have to work outside the system by volunteering with non-profit organizations. We can also work at a local level by campaigning for local canidates. This is not the end. but it will be hard to reverse what has happened for the last four years and what will come in the next four years. At 25 I have already come to terms with the fact my generation may not have social security. KEEP FIGHTING. No Surrender.

    Comment by fighter2004 — 11/6/2004 @ 11:52 am

  296. I tried to send this earlier but had a problem with my computer (imagine that!.)
    If you repeat a lie long enough, people will start to accept it as truth. Someone keeps trying to tell us that Ohio didn’t use electronic voting machines. That is not so. Many counties DID use them. Columbus, one of the biggest cities in Ohio, also used them. Ohio used ES&S machines, which were made by a company formerly headed by the now Senator Hegel. He left the company to run for an election in Nebraska, and won the election with some very suspicious results.

    Comment by “Debunking the Disinformation” — 11/6/2004 @ 11:55 am

  297. The true heart of American’s vote is clearly represented by the fact that Bush got 9% - yes, only 9% of the DC vote to Kerry’s 90% and lost NY - where we were hit hardest by nearly 20%! If the Nations capital and the Bullseye of 9/11 say “FU@& You Bush!” you know all you have left are the fearful, close-minded, fundamentalists to get your back. Thats right turrorists - its our wacko fundamentalists with guns against yours - BRING IT ON!

    As a fierce independent who hoped McCain wouldn’t have been smeared for his ‘black baby’ and ‘drug addicted wife’ in SC in ‘00, (I thusly voted for Gore) I still can’t help but speculate this was a multi-layer rigging of black-box untraceable vote rigging, Democrat harrassment (I didn’t see any lawsuits of Dems try to mass-disqualify Reps). The biggest punch was clearly the right-wing threats and ballot measures against gay marriage that brought the Bush-Cult out in droves. Gay marriage was hawked by Fox / Faux News for the past year, so “ya’ll better show up and pretend there aren’t gay people, and vote against their rights. (I can say that personally, my wife and I feel our marriage is threatened because there are gays out there who want to share their lives together and not be discriminated for it.)

    Oh - and did you hear the latest news - NBC just broke that 94% of all gay people are now no longer gay because of the Amendments so they now have the very same rights as all of you who (still) hate them!

    Anyway - only four major e-vote companies tallied all the electronic votes for this election all of whom are open Bush supporters and the CEO’s of two are ultra-right wing Christian fundamentalists.

    That to me is as clear as it gets. Jesus - Chuck Hagel (R, Nebraska), former CEO of ES&S Corp. who manufacture voting machines, was elected by an 80% - 20% landslide by his own voting machines in 1997 - his was one of the final tally companies in 2004.

    The public is ABSOLUTELY not allowed to review any of the election data or code methodology. In my mind, it doesn’t matter what party you claim - thats scary. But I suppose it helps that these companies all lean Republican - I haven’t heard any of the wondeful and friendly, “moral” Republicans asking any questions of the machines, or of Bush for that matter. He’s your ultimate cult-of-personality Figurehead. Ah, that nice warm feeling in your gut…while he slides it in laughing that you all applaud how he’s screwed you and all of us for four years.

    But you’ve all at least done the good Christian thing by turning the other cheek while he slaps your other one daily and tells you it was the Democrats. If you really look into Bush’s actual record, you’ll wonder if he’s actually even a Republican - but in the shadow of the massive and towering propaganda whirring out of Faux News…why would you doubt him - he just pet a horse! He just kissed a baby! Bucky just chased an armadillo into a burrow! He’s praying with Blacks! He just gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001 - OOPS…you won’t hear that on Faux News - only that Bush is Jesus. The majority of Republicans worship Faux News, so there’s your answer.

    Anyway, I gave Bush a chance but realized quickly he was really an ultra-extremist when his very first action as President was to gut much of the OSHA labor laws and tried to kill the “Roadless Areas Protection Rule” on National Forests. Those labor laws and guidelines took 10 years to achieve - some of which were crafted under his father. The roadless Rule took 3 years of lobbying, 4 years of public meetings and comment collection in all states w/ Nat.Forest with the highest # of comments in history for public lands issues. Americans said by a 15 to 1 margin to protect these areas but Bush halted it and said “the American people did not have enough time and information to property decide on this issue.” There’s a believer in democracy for you. Why would anyone doubt that with the voting machine companies on his team that he’d not ensure his own election?

    Finally, the comments of ‘FM’ on this board are amazing…I lost my brother in Iraq because of this INSANE folly. FM’s ‘Military Baiting” concept to be among the sickest of the now “47 Reasons We Invaded Iraq But Didn’t Actually Discuss At The Time.” That one takes the cake.

    Furthermore, even if the US did decide to just invade a country to ‘liberate its people from a dictator’ - the Geneva Convention, which the US helped design, REQUIRES that the lead and party countries hold talks at the UN to discuss and plan such an invasion That was NEVER an issue for Iraq and that never happened.

    We didn’t go there to plant our soldiers as bait just to have them be targets for ‘terrorists’ in a country that never supported Al Queda (why would a nutcase dictator risk losing control of his country just to make a few bucks to lowlife losers - it NEVER happened) but for single reason that was false - the WMDs.

    This war was going to cost “Only $19Billion” or so Rumsfeld suggested and quickly paid back by Iraqi Oil. None of this worked (republicans could care less) and it was followed by a barrage of pathetic rationalizations about ‘liberation’ and ‘freedom’ and such. Man, you people are the 2+2=5 Cult for sure if you can’t see through that one over the Personallity of Bush. (He’d never do that…)

    Now we have $200 Billion appropirated for this oultandish failure and Bush is going to ask for another $70 Billion. Yep, ya’ll are the party of fiscal conservatives aren’t you? Urinating away your own schools and domestic initiatives so Bush can take Iraq’s, then Iran’s oil…all the while pumping it from the Caspian Sea Region to Eastern Asia. Any idiot who’s read 10 minutes worth of E. Asia politics and economy knows THEY’RE THE FASTEST GROWING ECONOMY ON EARTH AND THEY’RE BURNING FAR MORE OIL THAT THE US AND EUROPE COMBINED. Thats where you sell it and when you have dictators who don’t like American Oil interests, you try to remove them. Its as simple as that.

    If you believe that this is not about oil as clearly outlined by the Project for the New American Century - its right there on their website - and that its OK to stage ourselves family members there as a lure at such an unthinkable financial expense footed by us, you are truly among the most deluded people in this world. You also must believe there are only 1,567,388 terrorists in the world, we can’t create more, and that we’re getting them all. Meanwhile, we are then unable to focus on other areas where more serious trouble is really brewing. What a pathetic idea and excuse, FM. You’re not a Republican, you’re a F&^%ing Kremlin Idealist.

    Meanwhile, ‘terrorist alerts’ are ringing off the hook ironically every time serious press comes bad on Bush (and of course, just before the Dem Convention in Boston, but ironically NOT in NYC which was attacked, during the Rep Convention as they milked non-thinking American’s conscience.) If Bush is making us so safe, why are there constant terror alerts?

    Oh well…just get back to building that pipeline through Afghanistan and Kashmir to India and China. What could be suspect about that - this is not about oil.

    Comment by Redneck Leftist — 11/6/2004 @ 12:46 pm

  298. The true heart of American’s vote is clearly represented by the fact that Bush got 9% - yes, only 9% of the DC vote to Kerry’s 90% and lost NY - where we were hit hardest by nearly 20%! If the Nations capital and the Bullseye of 9/11 say “FU@& You Bush!” you know all you have left are the fearful, close-minded, fundamentalists to get your back. Thats right turrorists - its our wacko fundamentalists with guns against yours - BRING IT ON!

    As a fierce independent who hoped McCain wouldn’t have been smeared for his ‘black baby’ and ‘drug addicted wife’ in SC in ‘00, (I thusly voted for Gore) I still can’t help but speculate this was a multi-layer rigging of black-box untraceable vote rigging, Democrat harrassment (I didn’t see any lawsuits of Dems try to mass-disqualify Reps). The biggest punch was clearly the right-wing threats and ballot measures against gay marriage that brought the Bush-Cult out in droves. Gay marriage was hawked by Fox / Faux News for the past year, so “ya’ll better show up and pretend there aren’t gay people, and vote against their rights. (I can say that personally, my wife and I feel our marriage is threatened because there are gays out there who want to share their lives together and not be discriminated for it.)

    Oh - and did you hear the latest news - NBC just broke that 94% of all gay people are now no longer gay because of the Amendments so they now have the very same rights as all of you who (still) hate them!

    Anyway - only four major e-vote companies tallied all the electronic votes for this election all of whom are open Bush supporters and the CEO’s of two are ultra-right wing Christian fundamentalists.

    That to me is as clear as it gets. Jesus - Chuck Hagel (R, Nebraska), former CEO of ES&S Corp. who manufacture voting machines, was elected by an 80% - 20% landslide by his own voting machines in 1997 - his was one of the final tally companies in 2004.

    The public is ABSOLUTELY not allowed to review any of the election data or code methodology. In my mind, it doesn’t matter what party you claim - thats scary. But I suppose it helps that these companies all lean Republican - I haven’t heard any of the wondeful and friendly, “moral” Republicans asking any questions of the machines, or of Bush for that matter. He’s your ultimate cult-of-personality Figurehead. Ah, that nice warm feeling in your gut…while he slides it in laughing that you all applaud how he’s screwed you and all of us for four years.

    But you’ve all at least done the good Christian thing by turning the other cheek while he slaps your other one daily and tells you it was the Democrats. If you really look into Bush’s actual record, you’ll wonder if he’s actually even a Republican - but in the shadow of the massive and towering propaganda whirring out of Faux News…why would you doubt him - he just pet a horse! He just kissed a baby! Bucky just chased an armadillo into a burrow! He’s praying with Blacks! He just gave the Taliban $43 million in May 2001 - OOPS…you won’t hear that on Faux News - only that Bush is Jesus. The majority of Republicans worship Faux News, so there’s your answer.

    Anyway, I gave Bush a chance but realized quickly he was really an ultra-extremist when his very first action as President was to gut much of the OSHA labor laws and tried to kill the “Roadless Areas Protection Rule” on National Forests. Those labor laws and guidelines took 10 years to achieve - some of which were crafted under his father. The roadless Rule took 3 years of lobbying, 4 years of public meetings and comment collection in all states w/ Nat.Forest with the highest # of comments in history for public lands issues. Americans said by a 15 to 1 margin to protect these areas but Bush halted it and said “the American people did not have enough time and information to property decide on this issue.” There’s a believer in democracy for you. Why would anyone doubt that with the voting machine companies on his team that he’d not ensure his own election?

    Finally, the comments of ‘FM’ on this board are amazing…I lost my brother in Iraq because of this INSANE folly. FM’s ‘Military Baiting” concept to be among the sickest of the now “47 Reasons We Invaded Iraq But Didn’t Actually Discuss At The Time.” That one takes the cake.

    Furthermore, even if the US did decide to just invade a country to ‘liberate its people from a dictator’ - the Geneva Convention, which the US helped design, REQUIRES that the lead and party countries hold talks at the UN to discuss and plan such an invasion That was NEVER an issue for Iraq and that never happened.

    We didn’t go there to plant our soldiers as bait just to have them be targets for ‘terrorists’ in a country that never supported Al Queda (why would a nutcase dictator risk losing control of his country just to make a few bucks to lowlife losers - it NEVER happened) but for single reason that was false - the WMDs.

    This war was going to cost “Only $19Billion” or so Rumsfeld suggested and quickly paid back by Iraqi Oil. None of this worked (republicans could care less) and it was followed by a barrage of pathetic rationalizations about ‘liberation’ and ‘freedom’ and such. Man, you people are the 2+2=5 Cult for sure if you can’t see through that one over the Personallity of Bush. (He’d never do that…)

    Now we have $200 Billion appropirated for this oultandish failure and Bush is going to ask for another $70 Billion. Yep, ya’ll are the party of fiscal conservatives aren’t you? Urinating away your own schools and domestic initiatives so Bush can take Iraq’s, then Iran’s oil…all the while pumping it from the Caspian Sea Region to Eastern Asia. Any idiot who’s read 10 minutes worth of E. Asia politics and economy knows THEY’RE THE FASTEST GROWING ECONOMY ON EARTH AND THEY’RE BURNING FAR MORE OIL THAT THE US AND EUROPE COMBINED. Thats where you sell it and when you have dictators who don’t like American Oil interests, you try to remove them. Its as simple as that.

    If you believe that this is not about oil as clearly outlined by the Project for the New American Century - its right there on their website - and that its OK to stage ourselves family members there as a lure at such an unthinkable financial expense footed by us, you are truly among the most deluded people in this world. You also must believe there are only 1,567,388 terrorists in the world, we can’t create more, and that we’re getting them all. Meanwhile, we are then unable to focus on other areas where more serious trouble is really brewing. What a pathetic idea and excuse, FM. You’re not a Republican, you’re a F&^%ing Kremlin Idealist.

    Meanwhile, ‘terrorist alerts’ are ringing off the hook ironically every time serious press comes bad on Bush (and of course, just before the Dem Convention in Boston, but ironically NOT in NYC which was attacked, during the Rep Convention as they milked non-thinking American’s conscience.) If Bush is making us so safe, why are there constant terror alerts?

    Oh well…just get back to building that pipeline through Afghanistan and Kashmir to India and China. What could be suspect about that - this is not about oil.

    Comment by Redneck Leftist — 11/6/2004 @ 12:50 pm

  299. Jesus W. Christ - to “FM” - no E-votig in Ohio?

    You are truly among the delued in the Bush 2+2=5 Cult. My sister lives is Ohio and voted on one, as did the majority of Ohio voters. Thats a simple fact. I suppose Faux News told you otherwise. Fox Good. Other media Bad.

    Further, the Ohio legislature voted this year that though they have already have e-voting they won’t require printouts until 2006.

    I am “FM” Bush is my leader. 2+2=5. Jesus is Lord. Jesus, the original towelhead, would LOVE Cheney and Bush. Cheney and Bush would pass through the eye of a needle BEFORE THE CAMEL. .

    I am “FM". I have morals. Executing 200 people in Texas from 1992 to 2000 is moral. Turning out Joe Wilson’s wife to Robert Novak was moral. Killing 10? 20? 30,000 Iraqi civilians over WMDs WE KNEW were not there is moral. Bush can do no wrong. Ohio was 100% paper voting. I am God. I am deluded. I can fly. I am “FM".

    Comment by Redneck Leftist — 11/6/2004 @ 1:03 pm

  300. Suggestion 1: everyone who voted for Bush (in ‘04) and has children aged 17 up to 30 should now compell your children to enlist in the US Army, Navy or Marines IMMEDIATELY (USAF offers more safety than YOUR kids deserve);

    Suggestion 2: everyone who voted for Bush (’04) and is not yet aged over 30 should enlist immediately in the Army or Marines (even the Navy is too safe for you sht-for-brains pissants).

    Following these suggestions is the only way to avoid the draft.

    Come on, all you hot-shot Bushies: put your balls and your ovaries and YOUR children’s lives where you put your votes—on George W Bush…and count me (and my kids) out.

    re:
    methinkstoomuch.blogspot.com

    Comment by D.Green — 11/6/2004 @ 1:12 pm

  301. What is the Cheney administration’s end-game? (Hint: this ain’t all being done to pull off some sort of evangelical Jesusland theocracy in its own right, although that obfuscation helps hide the true end-game.)

    “An Optimist” in posting #291 gets it. All of the Freepers posting digital brown-shirt insults really don’t get it (if they truly believe the condescension that they are saying) or fully completely understand the end-game (if they are putting out misinformation and disinformation and faux intimidation to herd the sheeple into the chutes leading to the slaughterhouse gates).

    Yes, this election was stolen via more wide-spread fraud that was tested successfully in 2000 on a smaller scale (e.g., Jeb Bush “delivering” Florida in 2000). Yes, 2006 and 2008 will be even worse due to an ever larger invasion force of fascism in our government. (By the way, see http://www.democrats.com for more open talk about fascism in our government now.) The rigging of the election is not the biggest scandal. The biggest tragedy for humankind is yet to come in the end-game of this fascist power-grab.

    We will never be able to fight this in the courts and the voting booth if both are rigged against us (e.g., W will probably name multiple SCOTUS judges [SCOTUS=Supreme Court of the United States] which are likely to be Bork-like at best and Scalia-like (or Thomas-like=defer to Scalia 100% of the time) at worst. By the way, SCOTUS did not directly decide that Bush would be president in December 2000. Instead, the majority in that SCOTUS ruling said that a state may for any whim vacate the Election Day will of the people at any time from election day to the day where the names of the Electoral College electors must be declared for any reason and send whichever Electoral College electors that the state government sees fit, even if the people voted for one person for president, but the state went with the loser in that state’s popular election for president. In short the SCOTUS majority effectively said that voting for president is a privilege not a right! For those of you unfamiliar with fascism or have some skewed view of it (e.g., anyone whose active vocabulary includes “Islamofascist"), there are two central tenets of fascism, even more than pro-military themes: 1) de facto or explicit ownership of the government by corporations and 2) the conversion of all former inalienable rights to be privileges that can be revoked at any time by the government. Or in other words: corporations and governments have rights, sheeple (sheep-people) do not.

    So even if we all find a few federal and state judges who side with us, SCOTUS and the state’s right to vacate an election (not to mention DoD, CIA, and DoE electronic-warfare and PsyOps operations aimed inward within our borders) will always defeat the grassroots until this now-fascist USA reaches the fracture-point that Nazi Germany did leading up to the mid 1940s, when cracks started appearing. This ain’t 1945 Nazi Germany right now, this is somewhere around 1933 Nazi Germany; the fascist grip on power is still a God-blessed Jesus-mandated crusade for Pure Good hell-bent on turning over all of the proverbial money-changers’ tables in the Temple. (In case you are wondering, every Democratic citizen supporting democracy instead of fascism would be an evil money-changer with a table in the sacred Temple that needs to be overturned.) We still have at least another decade of this. If we fail to defeat fascism again (as the world did mid-20th century), the fascist grip on power could resemble 1000-year biblical proportions, not unlike the Dark Ages a millennium ago.

    So, given that we naïve Democrats will organize grassroots organizations that just might even number around 60 million people, such grassroots efforts are doomed to fail. Just as Bush somehow miraculously got the symbolic 51% majority (not the ambiguous 50.1% or 50.07%), the fascists will always figure out a way to play some sort of Euchre-style trump card that pops our balloon hopes just like last Tuesday evening’s election day.

    Thus, we all (or at least a major fraction of us) must focus not on nipping around the edges of the mechanisms that fascists manipulate. Instead we must focus on confronting fascism directly. I doubt that Ghandi-style civil disobedience directly to the fascists will work very well in most cases. Rather, I suspect that we Democrats need to continue to do what worked well from 1945 until this Cheney administration (with W as its puppet figurehead): export the message that Democracy in America is the beacon of hope for both America and the rest of the world, which can defeat all of the disdainful -isms in the world: totalitarianism, communism, and, most especially the current threat, fascism. We can leverage the concern and sympathy that we Democrats are receiving from throughout the civilized world, most especially European democracies and British-Commonwealth democracies. We can form bonds with our friends across borders and across seas and explain to them that we now know more and more what it must have been like in the 1930s to be in Nazi Germany, witnessing the collapse of (and corruption of) a formerly-great national ideal.

    But there must be more to that message that we democrats are to spread worldwide than sobbing over merely rigged voting machines with no practically-usable audit trail. This rigged-election message is important to get out worldwide, so that the world realizes that somewhere around 60 million of us are against what the Cheney administration is doing and that we are vehemently *not* doing what Bill Clinton and John Kerry are trying to convince the sheeple to do: unify and at least politely/submissively tolerate both the Cheney administration and the spread of fascism in the USA.

    We must also communicate what we fear is the end-game. Why rig the election? Why risk getting caught rigging the election? There must be some prize in the end-game that is really worth all of this effort. In my prior posting #90 above, I outline what I strongly believe is the end-game after nearly 3 years of investigation into the matter. In encourage each of you to try to fit together the following:

    1) PNAC: the Project for the New American Century: which on page 59 of _Rebuilding America’s Defenses_ describes genotype-based bioweapons as becoming a “politically useful” tool. (Were Jim Crow laws in The South “politically useful"? Was apartheid “politically useful"? Was the Nazi attempt to exterminate all Jews “politically useful"? Is “politically useful” merely a euphemism for something wink-wink-nudge-nudge very vile cannot be mentioned directly? The way that I read that context in that PNAC document is useful for *us*, not for the terrorists (unless our PsyOps/CIA are the terrorists, but that is another topic entirely).

    2) Prescott Bush’s involvement with the Selesian Steel and Coal Corporation in the Selesia region of Poland. Selesian Steel and Coal used inmates at Auschwitz as slave labor. Is the gold that William Stamps Farrish III now manages as part of the Bush family fortune actually the melted-down dental gold of gold teeth extracted from inmates at Auschitz? (William Stamps Farrish III is the grandson of William Stamps Farrish who headed Standard Oil during WWII, who in turn was part of the cartel which stopped the USA from using militarily-advantageous diesel-fueled engines during WWII, permitting instead Nazi Germany and the Axis powers to have diesel engines as an advantage so that corporate-supported European fascism would triumph over this pesky sheeple-empowering democracy.) It appears that Prescott Bush, Averel Harriman (one of the heirs to the massive 19th-century Union Pacific fortune, and now-exposed mole-for-fascism within the FDR administration), and others were coordinating a fascist takeover of both Europe and North America. Their plan unraveled when the American democracy proved to be too strong-willed to overcome—a strength that they underestimated vis a vis Hitler’s military and propaganda wonder-weapons, which we now take for granted as comprising the set of American wonder-weapons: cruise-missles, jet engines, diesel-powered engines where diesel requires less refining and is relatively non-explosive on the battlefield. For more information regarding Prescott Bush being found guilty of violating the Trading with the Enemy Act and having his investment bank seized by the Alien Property Custodian, see http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2 and http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_Link

    3) The plotted coup against FDR orchestrated by the American Legion and the DuPont family. Luckily they approached a true patriot, retired General Smedley Butler who went straight to FDR with the plot.

    4) The fact that the DuPont family participated (and perhaps orchestrated) the cartel that blocked strategic technology from the USA but freely paved the way for German and the Axis powers to have that same set of technology during WWII.

    5) The fact that Nixon was recruited by Prescott Bush when it became apparent that Prescott Bush’s seizures by the Alien Property Custodian would severely undermine Prescott Bush’s chances of becoming the president of the USA to complete the Nazi German plan in America.

    6) Then Nixon self-imploded (at least once). When Prescott Bush died and Nixon was forced from power both in the early 1970s, the complete-the-Nazi-plan was dealt a serious set-back.

    7) The fact that fossil fuels come up in a major way in each of these line-items. In bullet #1, PNAC seeks to take control of the Middle East’s oil fields as a strategic national interest. In bullet #2 Prescott Bush locates Germany’s largest of 350 slave labor camps next to massive coal and iron ore fields. In #3 and #4 the leaders of the cartel to suppress extremely militarily-valuable petroleum technology from the preWWII and WWII-era USA attempt to overthrow democracy, by killing or deposing FDR and installing a “Secretary General” instead of a President. In #5 the energy crisis of the early 1970s occurs during the Nixon administration which then enacts massive-government totalitarian wage-and-price controls over numerous portions of the economy, most especially the petroleum industry, closing gas stations on Sundays, lowering the speed limit to 55 mph, and other rather Draconian/totalitarian measures for a Republican Party that is supposedly for small government, freedom from government regulation, and the like. In #6, GHWB and W (and Cheney) all intimately comingle petroleum industry with their political power: Zapata, Harkin, Enron, Halliburton.

    8) George H.W. Bush was forced to take over where his father left off in the public sphere, having focused until that point on secret CIA operations which still have not yet come to light to this day. The rest of the plan to continue in America where Nazi Germany left off is more well known to us: GHWB was defeated in 1992. The neoconservatives and hate radio wage a massive decade-long hatefest against the Clintons for delaying by 8 years the re-enactment of the Nazi Germany plan. W is the puppet of the neoconservative Cheney administration that is enacting on the surface a evangelical-supposedly-Christian theocracy, but in the end-game serving quite the opposite goal: an evil domination of the world and slaughtering off of around, say, 5 billion people so that the remaining 1 billion have plenty of oil and fresh water and natural gas to go around per capita.

    9) Peak Oil is occurring. The oil is running out starting around 2000 or so. Lots of competition for the remaining oil among the the industrialized world, especially USA versus China versus Europe versus Russia. A big part of the end-game is: the USA claims vast oil fields throughout the Middle East. TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR THE FASCIST PLAN!

    10) USA’s GPS is going to get a competitor: the European/Russian/Chinese Gallileo system of satellites. USA’s GPS permits its military a massive advantage in that our military knows exactly where everything is during a military operation. Gallileo will at least nullify that advantage, if not, as a newer technology be superior to it. Time is running out for the GPS to be a strategic national military advantage. TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR THE FASCIST PLAN!

    11) Since WWII, the US dollar has been used to price petroleum. Thus it is used as a reserve by central banks worldwide. Gold formerly filled this role, but now since WWII it has been the US dollar filling this role because the thinking is that the US dollar is “as good as gold". But the dollar is faltering due to the Cheney administration’s massive national debt and faltering economy with the looming massive private debt too. Thus Russia’s Putin, Germany’s Schroeder, the Muslim countries, and others are actively pursuing displacing the US dollar as both the denomination in which petroleum is priced as well as the worldwide reserve currency. Russia, Germany, and European Union want the Euro to be what the US dollar has been for both pricing petroleum and for central-bank reserves. The Muslim countries want to return to gold at least as the reserve. Thus there is a future that is coming very soon where the US dollar is not the central of the universe around which the entire rest of the world’s economy orbits. TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR THE FASCIST PLAN!

    If you put all of these above-listed facts together, there is not much mysterious left. The lunacy of the Cheney administration melts away to be a quite pragmatic plan, albeit evil and vile.

    In summary, yes, the election was stolen, but WHY??? There is something coming that is bigger than what most of the sheeple are led to believe. This is not merely garden-variety greed. Time is running out for enacting some sort of plan. For some reason, rigging elections and fully propagandizing the sheeple via the corporate-controlled media (and hate radio) is a MUST DO in the eyes of the neoconservatives. There is something in the future whose failure (or further delay) is unacceptable to the neoconservative cabal that Cheney leads. Bush is in charge of the theocratic obfuscation of the end-game so that the sheeple do not foresee the neoconservative fascist end-game. Cheney is in charge of executing the all-important end-game under the cloak of the supposedly-God-blessed/Jesus-mandated theocracy.

    It is the solemn duty of every supporter of democracy throughout the world to ask themselves: what is the end-game toward which this fascist/neoconservative grab for worldwide power is crescendoing? Once we figure this out (and I propose my answer in posting #90 above) we can start dismantling the end-game as it unfolds, instead of re-arranging the deck chairs on the now-sinking Titantic (i.e., critiquing the vote-counting machines). Don’t get me wrong, some fraction of us must keep putting pressure on the vote-counting machines so that someday there can once again be a fair election in the USA. But don’t allow that to be 100% of your energies, as that is a long-term goal and a quite up-hill battle now that the fascists have taken more-and-more total control.

    Again, what is the end-game that the fascist Cheney administration is driving toward so wrecklessly? There at that destination you will find numerous answers to questions and numerous roads leading to that destination (more than merely a rigged election or two or three).

    Comment by Übermensch — 11/6/2004 @ 1:54 pm

  302. I think it’s plausible he won – but not for the right reasons. He used psychological keystrokes in his ad campaigns (IE wolves, which is proven to induce fear in psychological studies, although it’s ironic he used them even though he’s resulted in their slaughter and is infact causing more terror to them in a ‘terrorist’ sense), lied by telling the south kerry is banning the bible; furthermore lying during his campaigns and debates. He unfortunately is a convincing liar, had I not studied like I do to know the environment is the worst it’s been in about 20 years, economy the worst it’s been in maybe 40+ years. Well maybe had I not studied I’d be taken in by the sweet talking bush too (let’s not forget the straight faced cheney too. If you studied the truth meter of the bush/cheney debates as compared to the kerry/edwards debates you can see who told more false truths during them – even though bush and cheney were obviously more believable.)

    Unfortunately, the majority of America does not study. The altering of education for 20 years to become more leniant in what we learn and harsher in the case of image has resulted in this ridiculous supporting of an obviously dangerous man. Had America studied, they may see that a far more dangerous terrorist is bush himself (terrorist someone who uses a terrible action to induce fear to gain a result in what they pursue. Sound familiar?)

    Let’s also remember folks, he won by 1% and the popular vote may be what was skewled more than the electoral college. This is not a mandate, but uncertainty. I think a better system can be implemented than 1% of ohio or so deciding who is president.

    Comment by Fox — 11/6/2004 @ 2:22 pm

  303. There was a bill that passed the house making black box voting illegal. It wasn’t all the Democrat’s faults. I’m tired of this kind of misinformation. Hastert and DeLay weren’t about to have their sure thing voting machines kayboshed. Get real.

    Again, stand up folks. This ain’t, or shouldn’t be, a partisan issue. As someone put it, it wasn’t Dems trying to block Rep voters. I know the repugs are happy about the outcome, but a banana republic is a banana republic.

    Comment by Sue — 11/6/2004 @ 2:41 pm

  304. Until we can get a true paper receipt for our vote, we will NEVER again get a true election. The Republicans will continue to steal with these horrible machines. They have destroyed Democracy in the United States.

    We must all make a campaign to your Senators, Congressmen, the “mainstream” media about these Black Box voting machines with no paper trail.

    We have to fight and scream until we get paper verification!!

    Why did that criminal Jeb Bush ignore his bi-partisan commission’s strong recommendation to install the very accurate optical scan machines throughout the state of Florida in favor of the touch screen machines deliberately without paper verification.

    They truly are the Bush crime family.

    Comment by Carol Moore — 11/6/2004 @ 2:53 pm

  305. As a Democrat I find the thinking that only the “evil Republicans” are capable of fraud a bit laughable. You must all be too young to remember 1960 when Mayor Daly in Chicago was responsible for a massive and obvious fraud that threw the election to Kennedy.

    Though there were some problems here and there around the country with the count this year it is not enough to account for nearly a 4 million vote deficit. Kerry understands this and is big enough to admit it.

    Four hard years are ahead, and until we get our heads straight and understand the REASONS WHY it went down like this we will make no progress. This is still a decent country filled with basically decent people. If we make this an us versus them war we will continue to fall short every single time. Too much of what I am reading here does not give me hope. Stop the name calling and, yes, whining.

    Comment by sb_jim — 11/6/2004 @ 2:55 pm

  306. We worked hours, maybe scores of hours, every week to restore America to what it was. We knocked on doors, made telephone calls, pored over voter lists, argued, held signs, wrote letters, made speeches, put on bumper stickers, stuck signs in the ground, walked, talked, knocked, lived, breathed the defeat of Bushism so hard with such passion for so long.

    And we awoke the next morning in a foreign country, hurt, crying, hopeless, all our work seemingly for nothing.

    Did we really think that Evil was that easily defeated?

    Comment by John Musarra — 11/6/2004 @ 3:06 pm

  307. Guys, please, this has got to stop. Exit polls had Kerry winning South Carolina, too. That was never going to happen. This is one of the most conservative states in the country. He didn’t spend a dime here. The state Dem party asked him to stay away from their candidate for the Senate. He’s a Mass Lib. That just doesn’t fly in this neck of the woods. He lost by 17 points in SC.

    The real crime happened with the exit polling. Somebody fixed them to over sample blacks and women. You should be pissed at them because that kind of early news sent Bush supporters running to the polls.

    Comment by South Carolina — 11/6/2004 @ 3:20 pm

  308. What a bunch of cry babies. Your guy lost and considering Bush got us into a very stupid and unpopular war and still managed to pull it off shows your guy lost big. Everyone knows we should not be in Iraq and still this is the best you could do? Stop crying and regroup to think about the next fight. Pick a better canidate next time and you won’t have to think up all kinds of conspiracies as to why you lost. Kerry sucked and so did his wife and VP. The only good person in the group was Mrs. Edwards. Put her up next time…

    Comment by Henry Smith — 11/6/2004 @ 4:33 pm

  309. I think people should be skeptical and wary of Karl Rove’s remark that he estimated there were 4 million more evangelical votes which did not get cast in the 2000 election that should be cast in the 2004 election. I suspect that this was just a cover and smokescreen for the fraud which was really responsible for the election results. Look at the results in Illinois and Hawaii to see the power of this supposed evangelical voter strength: Alan Keyes never got out of the basement in his race with Barak Obama. Where was this evangelical vote there? In Hawaii where I live there were two candidates challenging incumbent Democrats for the US Senate and House seats, and they did as poorly as Keyes – about 30% of the vote or less. The “overwhelming “evangelical vote that is supposed to have expressed itself in this election is a myth, in my opinion. Don’t you believe it!

    Comment by Terry Hildebrand — 11/6/2004 @ 4:34 pm

  310. A MATHEMATICIAN / PHYSICIAN WEIGHS IN

    These data are amazing. The electronic voting method gives a consistent ~ 5% boost to Bush in every state where it is used ("95% confidence interval” for the size of the boost is 2.4% to 7.3%). I really like the way you displayed the data.

    I’m a mathematician and the probability that the results you
    displayed here could be due to chance is just 0.28% (or about 1 chance in 350, but I could be off a little due to inaccuracy in my reading your charts). Or as statisticians like to say, “p=.0028″. Specifically, I used the Welch t-test to compare the statistic (Bush’s machine tally) minus (Bush’s exit poll percentage), for the categories (paper voting states) vs (electronic voting states). In science, any p-value below .05 is usually thought of as virtual proof that there is a non-random pattern or correlation going on. Medical drug and medical device trials hardly ever get p-values as small as .003 (as we have here; smaller p-value means greater confidence in the correlation). Life-and-death decisions are regularly made on the basis of much poorer p-values.

    The discrepancy is NOT due to chance, but there can be other explanations that should be ruled out besides fraud. These include: (1) Is this sample of 9 states represpentative, or were they chosen to make a point? Before stating a conclusion I’d want to see data for all 50 states; (2) Could the methodology of exit polling skew the results? E.g. if exit polls were conducted earlier in the day, were more women homemakers or retirees voting earlier (no intent to be sexist, just illustrating the type of bias that could enter in); (3) Did some states use a mix of paper and electronic in different counties, and if so, how are they assigned to one bin or the other? (4) Are there confirmatory studies, e.g. data from other races such as the senate races in which Dems lost big?

    If anyone has the data for most or all 50 states, and you’d like it analyzed this way, feel free to contact me.

    Comment by David Anick (PhD MD) — 11/6/2004 @ 4:35 pm

  311. For any of you who think Übermensch is off his rocker, the proof is out there. Check out the Project for the New American Century’s website: http://www.newamericancentury.org/

    Have a gander at their “Statement of Principles.” Have a good look at the good folks who signed this document. http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

    Or for some comforting bedtime reading, read their manifesto “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century” and see what YOU think they are talking about: http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    This is NOT a right-wing conspiracy. It’s out there for everyone to see. We must organize and act before they get too far.

    This is NOT what our founding fathers had in mind for the United States of America. I want my country back.

    The Mixter

    Comment by Mixter — 11/6/2004 @ 4:38 pm

  312. Anyone heard about the potential economic boycott that was threatened by California’s if Bush won? Nothing like throwing this country into another recession to affect change and make the Republicans look like crap.

    A stagnant economy will kill them.

    Democrats, conversely, need to become slightly more moderate. Like chess, we need to capture the middle of the board. We need to be acceptin of middle america. I absolutely believe the “gay” issue killed us. That’s not to say that it’s wrong. It’s just too early to push it. Word is Clinton told Kerry personally to distance himself from it. 5 years from now, it’s possible i will be less of an issue. 10 years from now, it will for sure be less of an issue.

    Abortion, is a similar issue. I see it as an unwinnable dillema. The rights of the unborn, vs the rights of the mother. In reality, both are “liberating’ issues. We are trying to bestow rights on people, and depending on your point of view, you are taking rights away from one group or the other. The solution is to skirt the issue and lessen the number of abortions performed. We can consistently hammer at the Bush administration the fact that more abortions have been performed under his administration than under Clintons. Pro-birth control and lessening the need of abortions should be our policy. Call the abortion issue what it is, a dilemma, and we’ll gain points for being honest.

    We can capture the Catholic vote. There is a huge difference between Catholics and Evangelicals. Catholics are far more moderate and don’t believe a sin is a sin unless they actually sin. This is not the case with evangelicals. They are in everybody’s business. I live in the South, and I am a Catholic. I know many evangelicals who switched to Kerry, and we probably won’t get every Catholic vote, but keep in mind that Evangelicals don’t like Catholics. I hear it all the time.

    Democrats need to be tolerant of other points of view. Back Clinton-like thinking, and we will win big. We need young progressive candidates who say they are going to change the Democratic party to more moderate. That should get our foot in the door. to winning more governors and get some senate seats. We’ve got 2 years and we need to get started on this NOW!

    In the meantime:

    Look up Boycott Bush on Google and see which companies to boycott. Then send the lists to your friends. Pass this around. Boycotts work. Look at Sinclair. I posted a link to a petition every morning. We should boycott every advertiser on FOX. Maybe then we’ll get some attention.

    We need to get the middle of the board. We need new moderate candidates. We all need to gear up and support the party NOW. We need to make it an issue to fix the electronic voting machine problems. We need to become poll-workers next election. We need to stop supporting the businesses that support republicans.

    We have alot of work to do. Make sure to save as many of these e-voting machine articles for the next election. Make it a big issue. Keep asking the press about it.

    We can win this thing big.

    We can win it without the South.

    Comment by G. DeCicco — 11/6/2004 @ 6:39 pm

  313. Investigate all that,go ahead and fight.
    “Push” knows the rest of the world reject him,Demonstrate is the same in your great nation.
    Don’t give up! free people of USA.
    Stay strong and clever,Great solidarity from Europe.
    Nice and radiant people,blind them with your lights(the light of reason,of freedom,of humanity,of truth,of rainbows of ancient and new cultures)
    Viva el amor

    Comment by Johnny Beans — 11/6/2004 @ 7:09 pm

  314. If this indicates what it likely does, that the election was stolen, then it won’t matter what organization is done for the 2006 elections, we will loose anyway.

    But as the mathemetician pointed out, we need a good, thorough research team on this. AND FOR GOD’S SAKE, WILL SOMEONE ON THE MAJOR NEW NETWORKS INVESTIGATE THIS!

    ABC really glossed over the impact this stuff gives. They did a disservice in the story I saw. Maybe that guys was either bought out or dumb.

    Comment by Geoffrey Knobl — 11/6/2004 @ 7:34 pm

  315. I see some others raised a question that I had: with such a narrow margin of votes in the election and Ohio regarded as too close to call, did it make any sense that Kerry conceded as fast as he did unless he was collaborating with whatever scheme that may have been afoot?

    I think we were all taken for a ride. If anything, I think it was all a big sham just to give Americans the illusion that they have some control over their government when, in truth, they have no control at all.

    The Libertarians still get my vote in 2008.

    Comment by Daddy Kickass — 11/6/2004 @ 8:03 pm

  316. Bush is the President.He won the contest fair and square in 2000 and now again with the majority of Americans vote .It’ll probably do no good to tell all ya winers to grow up and it’s kinda funny to think that this gripeing may go on for another four years. The only one that can change your mind is You man.Get on with it ,figure out y this happened and try to win the next time.Good Luck.

    csolsen

    Comment by craig olsen — 11/6/2004 @ 8:47 pm

  317. Another reason I hate President Bush is that he singlehandly killed stem cell research. While he claimed he left some 60 stem cell lines for research, less than 10 cell lines are viable. This is the kind of research that potentially could cure millions of people with Alzheimers and Parkinsons disease. It is the kind of research Nancy Reagan has been pushing for years. I am sorry that those people have to live with the consequences of an idiot making such a policy. We are talking about a few cells, not full human beings. Isn’t the same thing going on in fertility clinics? In these clinics, only the healthiest and most viable embryos are implanted in the woman’s uterus. The remaining embryos get discarded (yes, that’s means the embryos die). Yet, President Bush stammers on about how it is morally unjust to continue such research and that we’re playing God. How in the world would he know? Where antibiotics came out in 1940s, there were also people saying we were playing God. Can you imagine our generation without antibiotics? How many people would die every year without the access to antibiotics? Again, political figures with no background in medicine or the living sciences are making medical decisions and it isn’t right. It is this kind of ignorance that plagues this society and really angers me.

    Comment by Ben Chen — 11/6/2004 @ 9:00 pm

  318. In my state, I work for the office of the Secretary of State. We sample random Electronic Voting Machines from multiple precincts in multiple counties across the state. We perform the testing before and after every election is conducted. My counterparts in other states administer the same series of random tests. For this reason, we would know if the machines miscalculated votes in favor of one candidate over another. It is just not possible. I think that exit polls are VooDoo science, and they are just plain wrong much of the time.

    You guys are making us look silly when you take the side of unreliable and undependable exit polls over the results of our voting system which has multiple levels of safety checks. Please go to the local branch office of your Secretary of State, and ask for specifics of their testing methods and redundancy. I have already reassured many concerned Progressives, that have come to my office, that there was nothing unfair going on with Electronic Voting Machines. It may not feel good to know that our guy really lost, but you can have solice in the fact that your vote did count, and voting in America is still fair.

    Johannes von Habichtsburg, AD

    Comment by Johannes von Habichtsburg, AD — 11/6/2004 @ 9:54 pm

  319. David Anick, did you look at this data yet?

    http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

    It looks extremely suspect to me. I haven’t had time to run p tests on this but it’s visually suspect from the outset.

    Since when would Democrats register in droves, only to then vote for Bush?????

    Editor’s Note: The pattern of heavily Democratic counties in Florida voting for Republicans goes back as far as 1988, the earliest data available online – previous to the existence of optical scanners. It seems that Florida is an anomaly of heavily Dem counties supporting Republican candidates, but it doesn’t appear to indicate fraud.

    Comment by Thomas — 11/7/2004 @ 12:16 am

  320. Johannes, explain to me the Ohio machine that managed to count almost 4000 extra votes in a county with 600 voters.

    For that matter, explain to me why a programmer couldn’t put in code that says “if the date is November 2nd and the candidate selected is X, then the ballot result should be recorded as Y.” You CANNOT test code unless you have actual access to the code. Black box testing is not sufficient. Any programmer can tell you that.

    Comment by Anonymous — 11/7/2004 @ 2:20 am

  321. The number of posts with the “get over it” or “get on with it” message make me even more suspicious. If the elections were fairly conducted and were legal and legitimate, why would anybody object to having the data examined thoroughly?

    On an entirely separate note, I have seen that apparently I stand a better chance of being gainfully employed in my chosen field in another country. I do not have to remain here if I find it too uncomfortable. Yet as I have also detected, quite a few neoconservatives have had snide remarks to make about that. It would seem that having a person be able to support himself adequately would be preferable to living on the dole, especially to conservatives, but apparently ego matters a lot more, especially in the arrogance of Bush’s America. It is my belief that that arrogance will cost the United States dearly in the end.

    When I first returned to the United States in 1998, I noticed how similar the society had become to the society that appeared in the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, Running Man. I am now thinking that the society in Running Man was a lot more compassionate – and fairer.

    Comment by Daddy Kickass — 11/7/2004 @ 2:47 am

  322. What a pack of whimps you lot in USA are.
    It is plain to th rest of the world that the Republicans stole the Election. The only way the majority will ever win now is by a decent revolution. I don’t think you lot have the guts to overcome the Republican Crooks.. I’d lend my peashooter if I thought it would help

    Comment by Michael Hunt — 11/7/2004 @ 3:21 am

  323. Here in Oregon we vote by mail (a definite paper trail) and Kerry carried the state by about a 16 point margin. Are there any investigative reporters out there intent on exposing the crimes of the Bush administration? Exposing them to the world is the only hope of ever putting America back on the right track. I’m sad and mad to see what’s happening to this great country. The asses of evil have taken over.

    Comment by Lori — 11/7/2004 @ 3:25 am

  324. You guys who say we need top down federal rules on how elections are going to be run are dumbasses. You have all the direct accountability you need. The people who preside over your elections are locally elected officials. If you don’t like the job they are doing vote them out of office.

    You guys are crying about Bush stealing the election. If you nationalize the voting system it will make it easier for the party in power to manipulate the election.

    Pull your head out.

    Comment by William — 11/7/2004 @ 5:38 am

  325. One example of how diabolical this SOB Rove is can be found on election night.
    I saw Andy Card and Gillespie trumped out in front of the cameras to express (among jubilation and confidence for a result that hadnt yet been determined), to express their feigned umbrage at the so called “flawed and dangerous exit polls”

    Rove is the master of media psyops and until the left gets someone out there to match chess moves with this weasel we are all doomed. He has mastered the art of getting out in front of, and even releasing himself a negative story. By doing this it sets the spin course of a given topic. He figures that people would say, “who in their right mind would rig an election and be the one who brings up one of the major sources of evidence” (exit polls)

    This election was rigged and the most insane thing is that there is so much evidence and so little attention. It appears that inside the wall, flipping a few votes via electronic means is as commonplace and acceptable as campaign stops. People really need to get behind these BlackBox diggers and ESS and everyone else that is looking into this fiasco.
    Personally, I think the only way to get this exposed is to plead with Soros (sp) or someone else with the means to post an award over 5 million for ANY evidence this was rigged. Somewhere out there is some greedy chip head snake who will sell out his fundamentalism for the cash.

    Comment by George — 11/7/2004 @ 9:27 am

  326. I kept asking myself; Why was GOP leadership blocking all efforts to make the voting machines varifiable. Why would they be doing such a thing. Why would’nt Tom DeLaay alow any measures that would produce paper records in these machines to come to the floor for a vote? Why would’nt they I ask?

    Comment by Dave G. — 11/7/2004 @ 10:24 am

  327. I’m a democrap voter & before I could get to the polls to vote for Hanoi Kerry I was abducted by aliens. What was alarming was the Bush / Cheney 04 bumper sticker on the alien spacecraft.

    Comment by ho_chi_minh_kerry — 11/7/2004 @ 11:27 am

  328. William you said a mouthfull when you said we should vote them out of office if they are to our liking .How do we do this ,when the machine’s usually don’t allow us to un-elect someone that is to the liking of the current power’s in the administration.

    Comment by steve — 11/7/2004 @ 11:44 am

  329. I work in the computer industry. I don’t know a SINGLE SOLITARY professional that thinks electronic voting is a good idea or that any tests run by non-professionals are conclusive proof that the machines are impervious to fraud.

    The National Security Agency has some rather stringent criteria for developing and testing a “trusted computer system". When the national security is at stake, stringent criteria are essential before taking a computer system operational.

    Diebold and the adopting authorities seem to be utterly ignorant of these criteria. They are fools to think their tests are adequate, and we are fools if we believe them.

    Comment by TinMan — 11/7/2004 @ 11:50 am

  330. To Anonymous

    The Electronic Voting Machines always have their clock changed (where applicable) when we do pre/post runs. I do not know what machines your precinct uses, but you can get all information from the officials that preside over voting in your area. They should assure you that the system works in accordance with the law.

    In the Ohio single machine miscount, they used a DCI ELECTronic machine that is old, and in very little use around the nation. Errors like this happen every election cycle, but reasonable diligence is always carried out. How do you think they found out that this machine miscounted? The machines have multiple redundancy, and one election official trying to recover the vote count corrupted it. That is where most votes are “lost". They are almost always found, though. We catch any errors on the day of the official vote count, yet we still do post election testing on random machines. Our process is secure.

    Johannes von Habichtsburg, AD

    Comment by Johannes von Habichtsburg, AD — 11/7/2004 @ 12:15 pm

  331. It seems highly likely that Bush stole another election–this time by cheating in two states. There is no changing it now. So what to do? Maybe leave the country and become an expatriate, while maintaining your voter registration. This way we can all participate in efforts to get the country back on track while avoiding having to deal with all the negatives: erosion of separation of church and state; erosion of tolerance for individuality; the forcing of personal and religious views of the “Right” on the rest of us; eventual higher taxes to pay for Bush’s follies (they can’t tax your income if you’re living abroad); avoiding inscription of yourself and your children, etc., etc. What better way to spite the Bush supporters by being able to vote but not having to pay the price they will pay.

    Comment by JHuberty — 11/7/2004 @ 12:20 pm

  332. It is more than disturbing, for people to say get over, stop whining.I for one will never get over it, and I will continue whining for the next four years, because that is my protected right as an American. It is a very sad day in America the saddest I’ve ever seen. To say I was devastated by the results is an understatement. We as a country are divided, and Bush will never bring us together, because he does not care. Noone tells Republicans to stop whining, they just go to the Supreme Court, and ignore the voices of the American people. Bush did not win the 2000 election fairly. He went to the Supreme Court when it started to look bad for him and had the recounting in Florida stopped. That man ( I use the term loosely )

    Comment by Kerri — 11/7/2004 @ 1:06 pm

  333. It is very disturbing to be told to get over it and stop whining. I will never stop whining or get over it, I still have that right do I not? It’s also disturbing how Republicans never have to stop whining they just go to the Supreme Court. Bush did not win the 2000 election fairly, he saw that things were not going good for him, and went to the highest court in America to stop the recounting of votes in Florida. Is that fair? No but he’s a Republican, rules do not apply. What bothers me the most is that 4 years ago he basically told the nation that election process means nothing to him, and that our voices don’t count, yet people continue to support him, it is a sad day in America. It is very sad indeed, because this nation will not come together, Bush will not help, he simply does not care. I for one will never comes to terms with, or even try to understand or listen to someone who believes it is more important to deny a gay American the right to marry, than having a job, feeding their kids,terrorism, etc. etc. We are being told Bush won the election because people voted more heavily based on their “moral values". I’m sorry I thought there was a separation of church and state in this country. I guess I was lied to again. I’m still proud to be an American, I’m proud I voted for John Kerry, and I’m utterly ashamed of all the Americans for voted for Bush. I do have faith, there will come a day when all those who voted for Bush will be very, very sorry.

    Comment by Kerri — 11/7/2004 @ 1:27 pm

  334. just sign me up for the cheese of the month club, cuz the w(h)ine is gonna last for 4 years!

    Comment by katncandy — 11/7/2004 @ 2:17 pm

  335. What you all need to know is that the election IS NOT OVER.
    That does not occur until the electoral college votes and congress places the vote into the record. SCREAM, RAGE, CHANT AND MARCH UNTIL THE TRUE VOTE IS RECORDED. Anything less and you are rolling over dead.

    Comment by rageagainstthevotingmachine — 11/7/2004 @ 2:44 pm

  336. Observations: throughout this amazing string, employing millions of words, I see some posts supporting a complaint that John Kerry and John Edwards have been historically ducking their jobs. This quickly shows us that, in truth, some of us actually buy the hype of the right. The data, the facts, also show us that GWB has had more vacation days away from the White House than any other president in our history, except one. That one is his father, Bush senior. The facts also show that GWB has held just 14 meetings with the Press since he took office. His father held over 40 conferences in his term, Clinton over 80.

    Seems a trend toward secrecy.

    As we are all now becoming aware, there is good reason for this secrecy. The man in the White House is the least of our concerns as president. The real fear should come from what the others have done and are doing, those who’ve manipulated their way into the positions they hold around him. We know their names.

    What America needs right now is to add legs to these millions of voices that are speaking out against this outrage, this absolute idiocy, this one true terror that rallies against us with such evil. We, the people of the United States, must not fail, for “We have seen the enemy, and he is us.”

    It is not time to fade away, remain quietly at home, as the ramrod enemy expects us to do, but time to bring our greatest effort into a real fight to pull in the reigns of our runaway America.

    The Corporate Conglomerate owns 70% of the airways that are beaming their spin into our homes. The Smith brothers alone, owners of Sinclair Broadcasting, run 62 television stations that broadcast to 25% of the nation. There are 1600 radio stations across the country that are farther right than any Republican can imagine.

    Follow the ownership - the money trail - there you will find the truth. There you will find an ugly mirror that reflects the evil behind the rigged workings of our entire structure in America, not just in our political system.

    If we really wanted to make some impact against this growing force, we would get rid of our cell phones and refuse to drive automobiles.

    Before some of you yell, I state right here that I have not owned a car for almost eight years and I have no plans to buy one. I have never owned a cell phone and I never will. Don’t worry, I get by just fine. When I need to use “the automobile", I rent a hybrid. I have only had to do that three times, for camping in the rain forest. My news source is not CNN, FOX, any of the C’s, or local. It is the internet. All too soon, I fear, this last bastion of free speech and democratically excahnged ideology will be killed, and I will then choose no news over the news that will remain…

    Yep, there is alot more to do in life than watch television while talking on cell phones.

    Get Active. After I finish this, I am going to a meeting, where a group of us will discuss viable methods of investigation into our government. Then we will debate actions that we can employ to uncover truth, to expose what really happened in America over the last 40 years that led us to this place, to then implement a plan that will contribute to effectively fighting the insideous evil, designed to restrain us from defeating it.

    It reads, “In God We Trust", on all our money in the USA. That’s the foundation of our problem.

    Comment by DiatribeSpeak — 11/7/2004 @ 2:56 pm

  337. Bev Harris of BlackBox Voting - who brought us awareness of this entire electronic voting fiasco, told me back during the primaries that the same thing happened in the democratic primary in Vermont (or was in NH?). Places with electronic voting machines went for Kerry. Places with paper ballots went for Howard Dean. Makes you wonder.

    Comment by Miriam — 11/7/2004 @ 3:40 pm

  338. Now what do we do?

    Comment by Jodie — 11/7/2004 @ 4:49 pm

  339. Having worked with computers for decades, both as an auditor and a computer engineer, NOT having audit controls in-place is a serious concern. System integrity is only assured with such controls present.

    Therefore, voter fraud is a valid concern, to the extent (given the results in 2000 and 2002) it caused (not just contributed to) the Kerry loss; it is possible that the level of black-box fraud in Florida and Ohio alone were so extensive as to reverse the outcome.

    This is a bipartisan issue; it affects all of us. What I propose is that we encourage Ralph Nader to actively pursue the establishment of a nearly fraud-free voting system. Our champion in the past can now focus on a cause that will benefit everyone in the future.

    For those nay Sayers, let me respond by saying: I would rather error on the side of voter fraud than not, because the results of ensuring it doesn’t occur in the future benefits us all. Let’s establish the audit controls necessary to eliminate the potential for voter fraud before the next election in 2006.

    Comment by ronb107 — 11/7/2004 @ 5:17 pm

  340. […] r: General @ 1:27 pm

    The Blue Lemur blog has some interesting stuff about the variance in exit polls and actual results in states that use electronic voting machines and t […]

    Pingback by deconcept » Electronic voting voter fraud? — 11/7/2004 @ 5:27 pm

  341. Jodie:

    Why don’t we organize and alternative Inaugural event where the legitimate inaugurals of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Kennedy, etc. were read? The press might get around to covering it.

    Comment by Jerry — 11/7/2004 @ 6:03 pm

  342. Seeing y’all here from Europe, the most striking features of fault in the US-elections are looming so large few ever mention them.

    1. A campaign where candidates EACH are allowed to spend (or others on their behalf) over $ 2 per citizen - young & old, voter or not - (total $ 1,3 billion) is fraudulent at the outset. Noone ever gets peace of mind to consider the real issues in such a shit-storm of half-truths & lies. Any campaigning as heavy as that fogs up basic reality. - Such as the increasing interdependency in the world, ecological issues / global warming, US economic deficit & relative decline, and of course US military double-standards & un-reciprocity. Might is right & unfitting facts are always wrong.

    2. Your electoral-college system creates a “democratic deficit", i.e. is undemocratic, far shy of “one person, one vote". The election gets to be about which candidate/party manipulates best, not who presents solutions to current needs best. The electoral college is outdated in our time of immediate long-distance communications. Yet the ones who could change it - Congress - are exactly the ones who have benefitted & stand to benefit from the skewed system. Not a prospect for improvement.

    These two points of democratic lack far outweigh any irregularities, however real, within the biased framework these two conditions maintain.

    Further premises necessary to a functional democracy is Transparency & Informedness of the electorate, both of which US apparently suck at.

    But you are also amazingly good at being clear critical of all this, too, when someone in the US put their mind to it. I’ve become aware of the deficiencies in your system much through US voices.
    - Guess the ones wearing the shoes know best where they pinch.

    Good luck 2 U in hopefully joining the democratic countries some time.

    Love - Kris

    Comment by Kris — 11/7/2004 @ 6:14 pm

  343. My early vote and 19,000 others in my COUNTY were not even counted when Kerry conceded. Nor were 10,000 absentee votes. HALF the votes in my county were uncounted in a swing state (New Mexico) and the eleciton was called.

    My sister called me the day after election day. She lives in Florida, but travels, so asked to vote absentee.

    This is no joke. She got her absentee ballot on election day. And the two names on the ballot were Bush and Gore.

    There’s NOTHING reliable coming out of Florida or Ohio. This election is a fraud. We have no right to be forcing our form of democracy on Iraqis and the rest of the world. We don’t have a democracy. We have a corporate theocracy.

    Comment by Gary Worth — 11/7/2004 @ 7:24 pm

  344. If the results had been reversed, you can bet your ass that Bush would NEVER have conceded the election. Nice guys finish last and I’m astounded by the naivete of the Dems and their readiness to give in. These are evil people. Shouldn’t our elected Democratic officials know this already? They get away with everything. Personally, I think Karl Rove was also behind the anthrax scare that helped lead the populace in the pro-war direction the Bush regime wanted to go. Think about it. How many people died? 4? 5? It was worth it to them considering the mass hysteria they created. Well within acceptable losses. And who’s investigating that little psy op? Not the dems. Not the press…there are no Woodwards or Bernsteins left. The Evil Ones will continue to get away with dirty tricks and treasonous activity because there is no one in the country with the guts to stand up to them. Wait and see….if the Bush regime starts to unravel, the press will jump on board and try to take credit. Otherwise, they’re too busy lining up to interview Ashlee Simpson while our country becomes a fascist state. Our Dem office holders disgust me as much as their republican counterparts, with VERY few exceptions. We need a new political party for all of us former Democrats. Kerry didn’t really want to win…how else to explain his eagerness to campaign. NO MORE RICH PATRICIANS WILL GET MY VOTE. Hey John…have some KETCHUP WITH THAT CROW.

    Comment by Diane — 11/7/2004 @ 8:24 pm

  345. Of course I meant eagerness to concede. Kerry rolled over quicker than my little dog looking for a belly rub.

    Comment by Diane — 11/7/2004 @ 9:03 pm

  346. Good reporting. I once saw a flying saucer which I’m certain was responsible for the sky falling. Why can’t you accept the truth instead of coming up with all kinds of conspiracy ideas. GIve yourself a break and get a real life.

    Comment by Mike Stowe — 11/8/2004 @ 12:53 am

  347. If they(the completely scary republicans) can try to impeach Clinton for a harmless physical act, why don’t democrats pull their heads out of their asses and start the impeachment process on Bush for everything he’s done? Because most democrats are TOO complacent! Hello? Conceding in 2000 and 2004 when they clearly won both times? Pitiful!!!!

    Comment by Carly — 11/8/2004 @ 3:45 am

  348. A message for Scott Fortman, the reason John Kerry has not passed anything was and is because he has been a senator through this large republican era. Why would he vote for a law to hurt the people he cares about?(THE WORKING AND MIDDLE CLASS) I don’t know who you think you are but you need to go do your homework.

    Comment by Tim Housos — 11/8/2004 @ 10:48 am

  349. Ask yourselves this:

    1. Why were exit polls always extremely accurate predictive models before the 2000 election?

    2. Why did the Repubs stonewall the bi-partisan Congressional bill to make mandatory a paper-trail in e-voting?

    3. Why the huge discrepancy at non-paper trail e-voting machines between the exit polls and the final count?

    One doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist to know that our democracy is being HIJACKED by this bunch of thugs! And, it appears, with the media’s collusion. Support blackboxvoting.org folks. Cough up some money for them…they are the ones doing the necessary research. Even One Dollar from each of you can give them millions to assure the disenfranchised can fight back.

    Comment by GoKnow — 11/8/2004 @ 11:50 am

  350. Okay, stop with the dems v. the republicans for a second and this of it this way:

    I’m a libertarian, technically a branch of the Republicans, deep in my evil little heart I’m aware I suck and should be allowed near governement. I’ll openly admit that. I want NOTHING to do with Bush. You guys do understand the rest of the world hates us right? Or are moving that way very quickly? I know most Americans don’t seem to care but when we need help again, just wait…it won’t be there.

    And when the draft happens? I wish everyone luck. I’m still kind of wondering if Kerry was supposed to lose. This just makes no sense to any of us. Okay, I may be out of touch, I live in a bit of a box but come on, the country is a mess, and gay marriage is the main topic of discussion?

    Comment by Bunny — 11/8/2004 @ 1:25 pm

  351. Even if you DON’T think the election was rigged, the Bush-Cheney campaign still cheated.

    Interesting article from today’s Washington Post begins:

    “As the presidential race was heating up in June and July, a pair of leaked documents showed that the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign was urging Christian supporters to turn over their church directories and was seeking to identify “friendly congregations” in battleground states.

    “Those revelations produced a flurry of accusations that the Bush campaign was leading churches to violate laws against partisan activities by tax-exempt organizations, and even some of the White House’s closest religious allies said the campaign had gone too far.

    “But the untold story of the 2004 election, according to national religious leaders and grass-roots activists, is that evangelical Christian groups were often more aggressive and sometimes better organized on the ground than the Bush campaign.”

    Read the rest of the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32793-2004Nov7.html

    Time magazine (among others) have reported how coordinated Bush’s campaign was compared to Kerry’s. Seems it wasn’t Bush’s campaign that was more organized; rather, it was the evangelical Christian groups’ campaigns.

    So I guess it is okay for churches to violate laws against partisan activities by tax-exempt organizations in order to stop the whole gay marriage debate. It must be okay to break the law in order to do “God’s work.” Because being homosexual must be a much bigger sin than breaking the law to give your candidate an advantage at the polls.

    What a bunch of losers.

    Write your U.S. Representatives, Senators, local government officials, the media, and whoever else you can think of that might be able to help. Bush, Cheney, et al stole this election and our country!

    I, for one, want my country back!

    Comment by Mixter — 11/8/2004 @ 1:31 pm

  352. I think this is the next “Watergate", truly, if it could only be verified. Bush never even broke a sweat election night and assured voters he had it won………..I wish the FBI would actually do a thorough investigation.

    Comment by M.Carroll — 11/8/2004 @ 1:34 pm

  353. I think that its funny that dummocrats are still whinning about the 2000 election. Under every single recount Gore was looking for he lost. Not one recount was he ahead. Also, all three major networks told everyone in Florida that the polls were closed at 7:00 p.m. EST and started giving exit poll data despite the fact that the polls were still open in the Panhandle which is CST. causing 10,000 undervotes for Bush in the republican region. Also 50,000 New York residents voted both in NY and in FL and majority of these overvotes went for Gore.

    One last comment. Bush was ahead in 2000 by a comfortable margin in the polls before the election until CBS ran the hatchet news on George Bush old DUI. Gore picked up between 2 to 3 % on this late breaking pre-election smear.

    Bush got 3.5 million more votes this time, despite the IRAQ war, a loss in jobs from Clinton Bubble and 9/11. That is because Kerry couldn’t win a senatorial seat in 40 of the 50 states in this country - He is an unacceptable candidate

    Comment by FM — 11/8/2004 @ 3:52 pm

  354. No Surrender,

    For your information on 7 of Ohio’s 88 counties used electronic voting. Largely democratic area of cleveland did not.

    http://www.thestandard.com/movabletype/datadigest/archives/000499.php

    Comment by FM — 11/8/2004 @ 5:45 pm

  355. The text of the article says New Hampshire’s results were within 0.1% of exit polls, but the graph shows a big discrepancy for that state. Which is correct?

    Editor’s Note: The graphs and the article draw on different hours of the exit polling. In sum, I would look to the newer article for a more accurate and reliable analysis; I think we were wrong on this one.

    Comment by Sidewinder — 11/8/2004 @ 6:20 pm

  356. Just finished reading this thread and I have just a couple things to say.

    FM, Fortman and others of like mind; why are you wasting your time talking to these losers? Obviously, you are so much more intelligent than they are. After all, they are forced to go scrambling all over the place finding their information and the facts to back it up and you folks can just pull it right out of the air. ‘Course you do, occaisionally, have to fall back on quoting Rush “Psst, got pills?” Limbaugh, Fox, Bill “Hey baby, can I see your vibrator?” O’ Reilley or other “Great (or is that grating) Minds. Seriously though, do you really think that hanging out with these losers and saying such pithy and relevant things as; “Get over it, you lost!", “Quit whining!", “Losers!", “Didn’t show up to vote! (paraphrased), “Quit!", “Give up!", “Stop saying all these horrible things about My Leader!” (major paraphrase but you and I know that’s what you mean), and “Get over it!” will actually have any effect at all on these poor deluded fools who actually still have hope that the “system” is not truly as corrupt as it is? Get real. Please though, keep spouting these “Devinely inspired", moving and reflective words. “These losers” need to keep hearing just how purposefully ignorant some people can be.

    Besides, if any of them are like me at all, and I’m sure most really are more like me than not, the more opposition I feel from the likes of you, the more I am certain that I am correct and following the right (not Right) course. Also, and you can take this to the bank kids… We will not shut up just because you say so, we will not go away, we will keep on kicking, screaming and complaining (Call it whining all you want. Best whiners in the world? Turn on AM radio and listen, that’s some major league whining Right there!) until things change. Some of us at least, will not give up without a fight… and I’m not talking a little mud slinging here kids, when I say fight, that is exactly what I mean.

    This being said, I was not, and am now even less, fond of Sen. Kerry. Skull and Bones people… look into it, now that’s some scary stuff. We have had several presidents who are members. Considering just how few men in this world are members of that wonderful little cult, the number of presidents that they have produced is, to me at least, quite disturbing. Also, note my use of the present tense here. Once a S&B member, always a S&B member. These people, in many ways, are much worse than the Klan.

    Yes, the election was rigged, the evidence is just too strong to be otherwise. Matter of fact, this election had more rigging than a schooner under full sail. Voter fraud, voting machine tampering, dishonest voter “registration” drives, bought and paid for people from every level of the “system", and a challenger who really didn’t want to win. Look at Kerry’s campaign. Does anyone remember folks saying “When is he going to say something?", “I don’t know what he stands for.” and so on? Then he quits before the vote count is even over and with nary a peep about all the irregularities that are coming to light. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I did vote for Kerry even though I had deep misgivings. Why? Mainly because I am one of those people who still want to believe that all is not lost in this, once and future, Democracy. We do not live in a democracy these days and it really pisses me off (pardon my Anglo-Saxon there). Besides, I already voted for Nader once, never did vote for Clinton, and do not regret it all. After all, the fix was already in down there in the “Sunshine State” and we could have ALL voted for Gore and the Fascists would still have stolen the election. BTW, as long as Congress and the Federal courts are controlled by the RFC (Republican Fascist Party), there will be no impeachment of Bush, no election reform, no real investigation into any impropriety of any Republican, no justice when it comes to Haliburton and Cheney or any other of the many things which NEED to be done.

    They have slowly and carefully stacked the deck folks. Probably have marked the cards too. These people are the ones who grew up taking toys and candy from those weaker than them. They are the schoolyard bullies. The ones who lied and cheated from the day they first learned to talk.

    ‘Ya know, they have a way of dealing with cheaters in Vegas that we need to learn from. First, they get the hard evidence, usually video there in Vegas, and then they fall on ‘em like an old house… sudden and devastating. Now that more and more people are waking up and seeing the “system” for what it is/has become, we need to start paying a lot more attention to the sleight-of-hand tactics used by our enemies, yes I said enemies, and figure out ways to neutralize them. It’s time to fight on their level, even though most of us will need to drop a long, long way to get there. Basically, a fist is not much of a threat to someone who is pointing an M-16 at your family’s heads. Don’t for a minute think that these “people” will hesitate to shoot either, they will not and they will never blink or look back as they walk across the bodies. After all, They have a mandate from God, They have a Holy mission, They’ve stolen all the marbles.

    And the scariest part, it isn’t just the Republicans that I’m talking about. Actually, to some extent, it’s damn near all of them, (this election has proven that as far as I am concerned.) Demopublicans and Republicrats alike, and yes, they are quite a lot like each other. With few exceptions, they all lie to us, they all steal from us and they are all out for number one. If these politicians really cared about us and our country, things would have been a lot different over the years. Things would be much better for all of us and not just those with money, power and the Right connections.

    Strange then, isn’t it, that I still want to believe that there is such a thing as an honest politician, an un-biased judge and a cup of good but cheap coffee. Haven’t seen any of these things in quite a while… wonder if I ever will.

    “…you don’t need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows” Bob Dylan

    Comment by weatherman — 11/8/2004 @ 7:05 pm

  357. Oops, just remembered, Air America is on AM now. I listen on-line but some places in the country can hear them on the radio and they are not whining on Air America, they are angry. Big difference.

    Here’s a link which shows that the “mainstream” media is finally starting to wake up and smell the sewage.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

    Stay angry people! Demand answers! Demand the truth!

    Later…

    Comment by weatherman — 11/8/2004 @ 7:46 pm

  358. Funny… I’ve been trying to get onto www.blackboxvoting.org for a while now, but I can’t seem to get on. Anyone else having the same problem? (I know, it’s a shocker.)

    Comment by Mixter — 11/8/2004 @ 11:09 pm

  359. I’ve had problems on that site too. Maybe so many people are logging in to it that the server can’t handle it all, or maybe Bev Harris took it down to update stuff on it. I tend to get a little paranoid sometimes when things aren’t working right and wonder if Big Brother is messing with my computer, but I usually find out that it was something that I did. Someone sent me an interesting link from New Zealand today:
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm
    Pretty damning evidence!

    Comment by “Iowa Democrat” — 11/9/2004 @ 1:05 am

  360. Evidence Bush Stole the 2004 Election

    “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”
    ~ Wendell Phillips, (1811-1884), abolitionist, orator and columnist for The Liberator, in a speech before the Massachusetts Antislavery Society in 1852

    Bush stole the 2004 election, presidential, senate and house by using crooked voting machines. Here is the evidence:

    * Exit polls are normally bang on. They showed Kerry with a landslide, but the voting machines showed Bush won. Exit Polls are almost never wrong. They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state. According to ABC-TVs exit polls, Kerry was slated to carry Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Bush carried. The only swing state the network had going to Bush was West Virginia, which the president won by 10 points. ABC has been biased toward Bush all through the election. Why would they suddenly betray him at the last minute?
    * The voting machines were designed to be fraud friendly. There was no paper trial, no open source software, no sealing of software, no audits. The software could be changed at any time. The machines were appallingly fraud-friendly. Republican jurisdictions purchased these openly-crooked machines in preference to properly designed ones. It was like a casino buying a roulette wheel with a brake visibly mounted. It is like a gambler buying crooked dice. It is prima facie evidence he intends to cheat. If catch him with crooked dice, it is up to him to prove he was playing fairly, not the reverse. At the very least, it was criminal negligence to buy machines so easy to tamper.
    * 80% of voting machines are manufactured by two brothers. They are Christian Reconstructionists, a cult whose avowed aim is the destruction of democracy and replacing it with a strictly literal biblical theocracy – e.g. stoning adulterers to death.
    * The voting machines have been compromised dozens of times in demonstrations. One group even trained a chimpanzee to do it. An real election in Georgia was stolen, and the fraud was detected, even before the federal election. Watch how easy it is to fudge the election the central accumulating computer, running Windows, the most insecure operating system on the planet.
    * The CEO of Diebold voting machines said that he would do “anything” to ensure a Bush victory – which clearly included fudging the results.
    * In 2000, pre election polls underestimated Gore’s strength by five points. In 2004 they overestimated Kerry’s strength by five points if you trust the voting machine results. This underestimate is inconsistent both history and logic. The voters not covered by polls are overwhelmingly Kerry voters.
    * We still have not seen a breakdown by paper ballot vs voting machine. If such figures are ever released you will undoubtedly see a huge discrepancy with the voting machines preposterously high relative to the ballots. You need to compare the distribution of paper ballot vs machines with historical differences for the two regions.
    * Bush prevailed only where there were such voting machines.
    * Republicans refused to post intermediate tallies during the day of voting machines. This allowed them to wait to the last minute to decide the appropriate fudge factor to win without being too obvious. They could even decide at the last minute not to cheat at all.
    * One third of the vote was counted by such machines. That third is meaningless since it was made up by the Bush team and is large enough to totally swamp the rest of the vote.
    * The vote accumulating computers use the Windows OS which is notoriously easy to hack. Its security system is made of Swiss cheese, an after thought Microsoft tacked on with bailing wire to a standalone single-user system. Further, only one set of accumulating computers is used. Whomever has access to those computers can easily substitute a phony set of results. There needs to be open access to the voting machines so any authorised organisation can do its own tallies, as a cross-check. The military never use Windows for this reason. They use Unix or Mac which is much more secure.
    * FOX news did a piece on how the voting machines are infallible, comparing them to ATM machines. They knew this was a complete lie. They covered for Bush. ATM machine have a paper trail, and a statement to check up on them. The bank has a vested interest in making them accurate. The Republican owners of the voting machines had a vested interest in fraud.
    * When reporters asked Bush about Kerry’s landslide in the exit polls in Florida he gave a wicked little smile and said he was not concerned.
    * If anyone such as the FBI wiretapped any of the voting machines, likely they will be able to prove tampering, unless the only tampering was done in advance or if there are witnesses who recorded the precise timing of their votes.
    * According to the Washington Dispatch election oddities occurred throughout Florida with some counties registering a 400% increase in expected voter turnout among Republicans while Democrats supposedly experienced a -60% decline in expected support in certain counties.
    * According to the Washington Dispatch Palm Beach County logged 88,000 more votes than voters. According to the official election results posted on the Palm Beach County election website, 542,835 ballots were cast for a presidential candidate while only 454,427 voters turned out for the election (including absentee).
    * In Baker County Florida, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180 for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry. In Dixie County Florida, with 4,988 registered voters, 77.5% of them Democrats and a mere 15% registered as Republicans, only 1,959 people voted for Kerry, but 4,433 voted for Bush.
    * In a precinct Gahanna, Franklin county Ohio, 4258 votes for Bush 260 for Kerry. Records show only 638 voters casted ballots in that precinct.
    * Cheney supporters are denouncing anyone who questions the election as kooks, conspiracy theorists and black helicopter crowd. Yet they know ballot stuffing is as American as apple pie. They desperately do not want an investigation. They know they cheated.
    * Blackboxvoting.org says Bush cheated. They have the biggest freedom of information request in history in progress to prove it conclusively.

    “There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.”
    ~ Edmund Burke

    Comment by Joao Cardoso — 11/9/2004 @ 2:46 am

  361. WARNING:

    Do not attempt to adjust the outcome of the ‘04 election…

    We control the voting machines;
    We control the White House and Dept of Justice;
    We control the Congress and the Supreme Court;
    We control the media;
    WE CONTROL YOU!

    Dissent weakens the Nation and, as a matter of National Security, dissent must be stamped out. Via the Powers of the Patriot Act, We are making a list and YOU will soon be silenced…one way or another.

    Voices of dissent Terrorizes the herd, ergo YOU are all terrorists and under the Powers of the Patriot Act, We will find you out and We have the legal authority to detain all of you incognito indeffinitely.

    Watch your backs, Blue lemur and all of your seditious dissenters—We have you in our sights. We have a Mandate. We have the Power…all of it.

    Comment by D.Green — 11/9/2004 @ 7:28 am

  362. a little message of france : last week end I read a
    very good book : author Theodore Roszak
    french title “la menace americaine”

    the message is very clear what the future can be
    with the bush administration, and not only for Irakians
    or Palestiniens. Americans must paid the debt of
    billions or trillions dollars.

    Good luck.

    Comment by rudi — 11/9/2004 @ 7:58 am

  363. As we have long known, many Americans can’t be held accountable for their actions, because they are ignorant, uneducated bunch of rednecks hicks. They have said by voting for Bush - It’s OK to lie and deceive us, it’s OK to send our children off to war to be slaughtered for your greed and it’s OK for you to keep f…….g us up the ass!

    The next four years will teach them - hopefully!

    Comment by mark — 11/9/2004 @ 10:48 am

  364. What does it matter what happens over the next four years? Even if 90% of registered voters poll as pro-democrat for 2008, the “actual vote” will be set to keep republicans in control. You think they will give up billions in funds for theior coffers? Fool America once (2000), shame on you. Fool America twice (2004), shame on us….

    Now, the republicans will push for more electronic voting to perpetuate their fraud in all future elections and “We the people…” are powerless since we can’t do anything without a “vote". And State laws will be protected from the Constitution. Maybe some states will vote slavery back in based on popular vote rather than Constitutional rights.

    Listening to Steppenwolf’s “Monster", its like it was written this year. Would make a great rallying point if dem’s had the balls to do anything about the election fraud.

    I won’t bother registering to vote anymore, I’ll buy an assault weapon and wait for the “insurgency"….

    Comment by stanp — 11/9/2004 @ 1:36 pm

  365. Hey Scott Fortman-ever heard of spell-check? And to everybody else-it’s “whining", with only one “n".

    Comment by Jeanne — 11/9/2004 @ 1:57 pm

  366. Bush’s margin of victory dwarfed the amount of uncounted votes. Theres no huge consiracy, or else the media biased the other way(and if you’re honest to yourself you know it is) would not have called the election for him. The pollsters, if you researchered this you would know, focused on democratic strongholds and it was still close. There people out there, acting like children, that assume that everyone thinks like them or just doesn’t think. Democracy works because we allow everyone to speak. Sometimes you are ignored. Sometimes we give you just enough riope to hang yourself, but it worked this year.

    Comment by Nathan — 11/10/2004 @ 11:31 am

  367. Does anyone have knowledge or research about any vote/election auditing in the USA on any governmental level? It seems to me that we *should* complete each election exercise with an auditing exercise, where there’s a (random) selection of counties, precincts, whatever, in which a manual recount is made and compared to the “official” final results - obviously by an independent nonpartisan/nongovernmental body conducting it.
    If the process detects anomalies or patterns of them, futher inquiry can then be initiated. Nothing provides absolute protection of the vote, but this would be a step in the right direction to reducing the possibility of fraud.

    I’ve heard a lot about poll monitors in overseas elections, but are there audits elsewhere that take place like this that could be modelled? And is there anything like this already in place anywhere in the USA at any level of voting?

    Comment by D Hawkins — 11/10/2004 @ 1:10 pm

  368. NPR just did a story where they considered people “conspiracy theory” believers for having doubts about the accountability of the election. What is conspiratorial about feeling uneasy about the fact that there are electronic voting machines that have no accountability?

    Comment by Jen Eric — 11/10/2004 @ 7:13 pm

  369. Two things we have to work on for the next election

    1. Get the majority of the liberals to vote by absentee ballot. That way one can make a copy of the voting form for their own record, if there is a question.

    2. We are the get the word out that we are not pro-abortion, we are pro-choice which means that we do not want to impose our Christian values on any woman. It is between God and that woman, after all God gave us freedom of choice. I worked in admitting in a hospital before Roe verses Wade and we did a lot of D & C’s about 15 a day on women of various ages. Being natve I thought it was a common procedure for all women, until recently when a nurse told me that they did abortions before Roe verses Wade they called them D & C’s. I recently spoke with two ladies in their 90’s and they said that mid-wives performed abortions in their day. So how would an anti-abortion law stopped abortions? Things will just go under cover again.

    Comment by Trista Harr — 11/11/2004 @ 5:08 am

  370. re #368

    All voting numbers that don’t wash…are being re-laundered and correctly rectified as they come to light…in order to perserve the integrity of this election.

    If duh numbers don’t jive, no prob’:

    We control the numbers;
    We control NPR.

    We have the Political Capital;
    We have the Power of a 1% Mandate!

    Comment by D.Green — 11/11/2004 @ 6:38 am

  371. As far at the CALTECH/MIT analysis of the evoting, let’s remember 2 things:

    1- In scientific investigations, one analysis SUGGESTS but does NOT PROVE anything. Peer review and replication of results are paramount.

    2- Garbage in, garbage out. Statistics may mean nothing if they’re based on faulty data. or faulty compilation.

    3- okay, 3 things. The report “Voting Machines & the Underestimate of the Bush Vote” made claims that need investigating. For example, it “expected the greatest discrepancies between states using electronic machines the most.” But what mattered were the states that were key to the electoral votes, not some global number of states.

    Ensuring tallies are correct is complex, and not to be dismissed lightly. Some rigging was too easy to do and would be too hard to prove. We need to fix what’s broke before 2006.

    Comment by Karen A — 11/11/2004 @ 1:59 pm

  372. The 14th Amendment provides that everyone has the equal right to vote…and therefore…EVERY VOTE should be counted. This is not a Democratic or Republican issue, but rather an AMERICAN issue! Count ALL the votes and let the votes speak for themselves. In addition, anyone (Dem or Rep) who intentionally interferes with that right should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law! It begins with fixing elections, taking away our civil liberties and then what is next? This is how Nazi Germany first began…one portion of the population DICTATING how the rest will fall in line or else… The real problem is not either party per se…but…the almighty corporate dollars running the Country how they see fit and disguising it as “the will of the people". They sit in their ivory towers and are laughing all the way to the Diebold bank. Count the votes and get to the bottom of this FRAUD.

    Comment by LSolo — 11/12/2004 @ 2:11 am

  373. The Media public officials and elected officials will never let the truth come to light. They lack the backbone nor do they care whether we live in a Bush dictatorship. Bottom line they care about money. Media only brushed the subject of the discrepincies. They would never eagerly investigate to find the truth. Unfortunatly without the who where or how nothing will be done. Perhaps we can look forward to our next Pres. to be Chaney. You know Bush will share his STEAL YOUR VOTES HERE campaign with the next Rep. candidate.

    Sharon

    Comment by Anonymous — 11/12/2004 @ 2:37 am

  374. You took the true story off the website because of your fear of giving out the truth and you worry more about your careers than reporting the truth. Americans would not have stood on lines for hours in the rain if they wanted the status quo in the White House. They wanted progressive change. Stop being wimps and get out the truth to the American people and not fold like a card table.

    Comment by Betsy Kerner — 11/12/2004 @ 10:05 am

  375. count every vote. the party of dems are not us. they saved their politcal asses while the 55 or more millions of americans who voted for change and were told that every vote counts and got screwed again. count the votes and dont quit people. nothing could be more important, and it’s up to us.

    Comment by T. Caputo — 11/12/2004 @ 11:57 am

  376. Most of the posts by the looney libs demonstrate exactly why they lose elections and why no one takes them too seriously. Anyone that disagrees with you is immediately stupid, a redneck, ignorant, a bible-thumper, or a stooge. It is much easier for the morons to believe that there was a vast conspiracy to rig the electioin than to believe that there sham of a candidate lost

    Comment by John Kerry — 11/12/2004 @ 6:51 pm

  377. The media spent more time and money going after a legitimately decorated war hero than getting to the bottom of whether the vote was hacked and demanding strict voting reform. Either way, we’re stuck with Mr. Moron for another four years.

    It’s not out of line to demand paper ballots that can be marked by voters using a permanent marker for elections. The punch-card machines and computers need to disappear completely and ballots be counted by hand so that no ‘early falsely reported tallies’ get out to the media before all of the votes have in fact been counted. The elimination of computers and optical scan machines also makes it so dozens of people can vote at the same time, thus eliminating the long lines to vote and eliminating the possibility of electronic thievery.

    This issue should not be dropped. The recounts should happen and then people should demand the machines be tossed.

    Comment by heavysole — 11/14/2004 @ 8:09 am

  378. Taking a Second Look at the Results…

    Hey People,

    I think there is ample reason to think that the election was stolen right from under us last night. Here’s why:

    Up til early evening, the Exit Polling had Kerry winning in ALL swing states, including Florida and Ohio, and had him winning in the national vote as well. The data was convincing enough to lead John Zogby, one of the most accurate and respected pollsters, to predict at 5 pm that John Kerry was going to win the election with 311 electoral votes.

    However, despite an excellent historic track record (minus Florida 2000) for being correct, the Exit Polls were later contradicted by the “official” results in a number – but not all - states.

    Interestingly, ALL, let me repeat the word, ALL, discrepancies between Exit Polling and the Official Results, favored Bush. See: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

    And, guess what?

    The only swing states which Bush lost where the Exit Polls were accurate (New Hampshire & Nevada), were also the ONLY swing states where PAPER BALLOTS were REQUIRED for every ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINE.

    As some of you may know, most electronic voting machines produce no paper record of the vote, so, once the election is over, there is no way (besides exit polling) to verify if the computer’s tally is accurate or not

    With that said, I think there needs to be an investigation as to whether the electronic voting machines had anything to do with the divergence between exit poll data and the official results. Of course, there is no way to go back and verify the accuracy of the electronic voting machines (because of the lack of paper trail).

    Finally, for those skeptical that these electronic machines could be manipulated for partisan means, please read the following, disgusting report from the Washington Post: http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm#appendix3

    Check out the following as well: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

    Finally, let me note the following:

    Exit polling was designed to prevent fraud – and is widely used around the world for this purpose.

    Sadly, however, exit polling is now getting a black eye from the US media, as the media blamed it for incorrectly predicting Gore winning Florida in 2000 (of course, Gore did win), and is now being blamed for faulty predictions yesterday. See: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/10083854.htm

    Thus, it appears the days of the media trusting exit polls are numbered. Without exit polling, we can literally say bye-bye to democracy.

    Bush/Orwell 2004!
    Cynic

    p.s. For more info on Electronic Voting, see: http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

    ####

    Links of Interest:

    1) Early Exit Poll Data Showed Kerry Winning in ALL Swing States

    http://www.news24.com/News24/World/US_Elections/0,,2-10-1665_1614915,00.html
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/2/190123.shtml

    2) Media’s Explanation of Discrepancy: Exit Polling no longer reliable

    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/special_packages/election2004/10083854.htm

    3) Alternative Explanation: Fraud

    http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

    4) Precedent of Fraud (favoring Bush in Florida 2000) with Electronic Voting:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm

    5) Evidence of Republican Partisanship among Owners of Electronic Voting Systems:

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

    Comment by Suspicious — 11/4/2004 @ 12:53 am

    I think that many of the there’s-something-wrong-here comments above are insighful and accurate, but they lake the larger perspective of what is fully going on.

    It is not merely this election that is rigged. The 2000 and 2002 and 2004 elections are merely putting the correct actors on stage for the main play. These elections are minor means to a incredibly huge end, a far bigger end than what you might currently imagine, an end which justifies vote-fraud means, even justifying the risk of getting caught committing vote fraud on a grand scale. There are people who are the bosses of the President. The Neoconservative cabal who serve as the puppetmasters of this administration are the most visible people representing those in charge.

    This election is nothing compared to what is to come. The ever-widening wars in Afganistan and Iraq are nothing compared to what is to come. In a nutshell, the DoD and CIA have taken control and the Neoconservatives control the DoD and CIA and the Übermensch control the Neoconservative cabal. We are in a massive PsyOps operation conducted inwardly within the borders of the USA. It is the most potent propaganda operation conducted since Nazi Germany (and thus all comparisons to German fascism are in order and quite insightful/foresightful). What is the end-game? Why conduct this massive amount of prepration and penetration of the American levers of power?

    See http://www.LifeAfterTheOilCrash.net. The fossil fuels are running out, especially considering that China and India and portions of the 3rd world are industrializing in a major way, which makes the fossil fuels run out even sooner. See http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/2003/so03/so03kelley.html . There is a massive secret research effort to develop genotype-based bioweaponry at top-secret BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities ran by the Department of *Energy* to avoid treaties that supposedly govern only DoD according the Bush/Cheney/Neoconservative-cabal administration. These two topics intersect. To solve the fossil-fuel shortage, there are two over-arching techniques: 1) increase available energy supply either by alternative fuels or conservation or 2) decrease demand (and I ain’t talkin’ conservation here).

    Some estimates are that the world’s supply of petroleum and coal and natural gas support a food-supply system of less than, say, 1 billion people long term, instead of the current 6.5+ billion world population. To reduce energy demand, the solution for which we are being prepared is to reduce world population to, say, less than 1 billion. That is where the genotype-based (e.g., race-based) bioweaponry comes in. The predominantly-white Christians in North America (and a few sick-minded allies of similar racial make-up) develop bioweaponry that slaughter all of the other races worldwide. Thus the remaining surviving one billion would have a sufficient fossil fuel supply to live comfortably for the long term. Oh, by the way, before the slaughter, roll the tanks into all petroleum-rich/natural-gas-rich countries, especially in the Middle East. (Iraq really is all about the oil, but on a grander scale that what most peace protesters realize than simple corporate greed.) The tanks will continue to roll into Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the like.

    As an added benefit, if the remaining/surviving one billion white people just all happened to believe in religions that are on the approved list (e.g., evangelical protestant Christianity, Judaism, perhaps Catholic Christianity), then the proverbial two birds are killed with one stone. Not only does one solve the fossil-fuel shortage problem, one also gets rid of all of the pesky competing religions: a win for the surviving humanity and a win

    Comment by zizo — 11/18/2004 @ 9:22 am

  379. يقذارة يا وصخين اوسخ برنامج على وجه الارض

    Comment by zizo — 11/18/2004 @ 9:25 am

  380. ‘Smoke Alarm’: Berkeley Researchers Find Major Flaws in Florida E-Votes
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/111904W.shtml

    Comment by squirrel — 11/18/2004 @ 6:02 pm

  381. What can I add? Did you think of the very high possibility that the poles were loaded early to create the effect of a Kerry runaway. That is the most likely scenereo, and it just backfired on some in the democratic party doing the dirty tricks part of the campagain. The far right has become so hateful and so out of step with most Americans. Without Bush to bash, who would you now blame. Michael Moore is not your friend, he is a leach, him and many others have used you well for their financial gain. Save your breath, your nasty tomes and your vile demeanor for the next candidate you will want to hate. Save your money for the Michael Moore’s coming up, for they will want to tap you again.

    Comment by Gary — 11/19/2004 @ 9:54 am

  382. Gary, wake up! YOU are the far right. Don’t bash yourself so much, it seems like you already have difficulty thinking.

    Comment by baad — 11/20/2004 @ 9:10 am

  383. Have any of you bothered to look at the final exit polls? It was the early exit polls that were totally wrong. By the end of the day, most of the exit polls, including Ohio, were largely in-line with the actual vote. See:
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/epolls.0.html

    All this blather about a stolen election and vast conspiracies just demean the democratic party. Give it a rest already.

    Editor’s Note: The final exit polls were ‘adjusted’ after the vote to put them in line with the reported results, likely to keep the networks from looking stupid.

    Comment by Jim — 11/21/2004 @ 10:42 am

  384. Funny how those people who post about the anger felt with respect to the outcome of the election…seem to have a great deal of anger themselves.

    No matter your party affiliation…reject the hate, reject the anger, stop the name calling. Take an involved role in making sure democratic processes are fair. If you stop complaining and DO something, you might be surprised at what you can accomplish.

    Comment by Jim in Oregon — 11/22/2004 @ 9:35 pm

  385. The mainstream media is not going to tell us the truth on either side of the issues whether they are classified as Democrat or Republican. What I have found unacceptable is the lack of historical knowledge that most Americans seem to be exhibiting and the media capitalizes on.
    Since the Industrial Revolution the birth and organization of the corporate government began and is known as the Tri-lateral Commission, an organization that President Wilson attempted to uncover. Former President George Bush, Sr. was once president of this organization as well as the Head of the C.I.A., then Vice-President and then President of the United States. Is there a pattern here? Absolutely. The first Iraqy war began with him and has been continued by his son. Many have forgotten that it was Osama Bin Laden’s father who put George, Jr. in business before he was even governor of Texas. Let me see, Texas…the Alamo, the Kennedy Assassination, Waco and the list goes on. Wasn’t LBJ from Texas too? He was an oil man, his wife owned most of Bell Helicopter, who by the way, made millions in Southeast Asia. Okay, so many of us do know about these things and have been trying to get others to wake up as to what is going on in their country.
    These things, amongst others, are not Democratic issues, they are not Republican issues, they are not Christian or any other religious issues, nor or they Gay, or Pro-Life, or Gun Rights and so forth issues…they are, however, American issues. United We Stand; Divided We Fall…if you take a hard look at all the issues you will soon discover how divided everyone is. The only finger of fault that can truly be pointed is at the American People themselves for not demanding that our elected officials live up to their oath of office and defend Our Constitution accordingly. Of course, most of them would have to go back home in view of the fact that the original 13th Amendment, which has never been ratified or amended officially, (but, some how, re-introduced at the closing of the Civil War to address issues of slavery), stated very plainly that no person of title, or letter of marquis should ever sit on the elected government of the United States. (No Lawyers or Attorneys to make it simple). These are the ones who rush to the forefront of this argument to defend their positions and tell the rest of us that we don’t know what we’re talking about, that we don’t understand our constitution. Well, if we don’t, then whose fault is that? Our schools no longer teach it. Most Americans do not know their own constitution. Why?
    Therfore, it is easy to understand why the issues on either side are the Americans fault, not party fault. If Americans want a responsible government then they too have a responsibility to hold those they elected to accountability. They work for us and for any employee to be rude, impolite and disrespectful to their employer is grounds for termination. It is also our protection contained within the constitution, as sited by President Lincoln, to grab these people by the seat of their pants, or dresses, and literally throw them out into the street. Americans also forget that it was the right to bear arms that gave them the power to overthrow the tyranny of King George (ring any bells?) of England to fight for their independence and build this nation and write our constitution and all by way of revolution. Revolution means change…the changes that are needed in America can not be accomplished as long as the People permit themselves to be held in bondage by a corporate government…not a people’s government at all. Is it any wonder why they keep trying to create issues that bring Americans to their knees in regards to the 2nd Amendment? No guns = No resistance = Slavery.
    Yes, the Nazi-Bush Administration has once again manipulated the American People with the weaponry of Corporate Media and completely gut the Constitution of the United States right in front of us.
    So they have the nerve to stand in front of the entire nation and state: “One nation under God…” Whose god?
    Perhaps they should hear the voice of the American People loud and clear: “E Pluribus Unum” = “Of Many - One!”
    We the People of the United States…it’s not one person, it’s not one president, it’s not a fucking game show!
    Wake Up! Life does not have commercials.

    Comment by Uncle Jake — 11/23/2004 @ 2:06 pm

  386. Well… The prediction that Bush would “create” an act of terrorism to keep people away from the polls did not come true. Darn.

    The prediction that Bush would capture Osama Bin Laden in the closing weeks prior to the election did not come true. Darn.

    I guess we have to run with the crazy-assed, “Exit polls are more accurate than the real polls” conspiracy and see how that works.

    Bush won. Kerry lost. STFU all you liberal drama queens. :)

    Comment by Jake Grafton — 11/24/2004 @ 6:21 pm

  387. You Dems just don’t get it do you.

    You just can’t accept the fact that your perverted left wing thought processes are not representative of mainstream opinions in this country.

    The majority of Americans don’t want your values. We don’t want the government digging into our wallets and forcing us to give our money for causes we would prefer to give privately to and wasting 3/4 to armchair quarterbacks and federal workers in DC so that only a small percentage of it reaches the needy.
    For 50 years we have tried it that way and we have more people on welfare than ever before.

    We want to defend our country by going on the OFFENSIVE with a strong military. We don’t beleive in a “sensitive” war, ala John Kerry.

    It’s funny how all of the values that made this country great are now “Right Wing Extremism”

    Just to our North there is a socialist country that you can move to. I encourage you all to leave. Let the one last true capitalist fre Republic survive and prosper and continue to feed the rest of the damn sorry world.

    Eat S&^t and die you sorry liberal, tree-hugging bedwetters.

    Comment by Ted — 11/25/2004 @ 3:11 pm

  388. Wow, don’t you just love it in Bushworld? Deficits are good. The rich get richer at the expense of the poor. Hatred and prejudice are moral values. Lying on a daily basis is the highest moral value. Namecalling trumps facts and rational arguments. Incompetence is rewarded. Deserters and draftdodgers get away with attacking the patriotism of war heroes. Propaganda dominates the media.
    You rightwing wackos are really neo-fascists who won’t be happy until the entire world is owned by one corporation. Get a clue! The only intelligence problem endangering our safety is the complete lack of intelligence in the White House.

    Comment by Insurgent — 12/6/2004 @ 6:37 pm

  389. Wow, don’t you just love it in Bushworld? Deficits are good. The rich get richer at the expense of the poor. Hatred and prejudice are moral values. Lying on a daily basis is the highest moral value. Name-calling trumps facts and rational arguments. Incompetence is rewarded. Deserters and draft dodgers get away with attacking the patriotism of war heroes. Propaganda dominates the media.
    You rightwing wackos are really neo-fascists who won’t be happy until the entire world is owned by one corporation. Get a clue! The only intelligence problem endangering our safety is the complete lack of intelligence in the White House.
    Funny how the exit polls in the Ukraine are accurate enough for Republican hypocrites to call for a new election but the polls must be wrong in Ohio, Florida, and the other battleground states because otherwise Bush did not win the election. Isn’t it also idiotic to claim these same “inaccurate polls” show that moral/sexual values won the election? Face it fear, lies, and the irresponsible right wing controlled media “won” the election.
    Enjoy the next 2 years (assuming your election fraud is not finally exposed) because you neo-fascists will go too far and will lose the mid-term elections. And, a second Bush administration will be the most corrupt in history, beating Nixon and Reagan by a landslide.

    Comment by Insurgent — 12/6/2004 @ 7:00 pm

  390. Funny how the exit polls in the Ukraine are accurate enough for Republican hypocrites to call for a new election but the polls must be wrong in Ohio, Florida, and the other battleground states because otherwise Bush did not win the election. Isn’t it also idiotic to claim these same “inaccurate polls” show that moral/sexual values won the election? Face it fear, lies, and the irresponsible right wing controlled media “won” the election.
    Enjoy the next 2 years (assuming your election fraud is not finally exposed) because you neo-fascists will go too far and will lose the mid-term elections. And, a second Bush administration will be the most corrupt in history, beating Nixon and Reagan by a landslide.

    Comment by Insurgent — 12/6/2004 @ 7:02 pm

  391. Nobody had to steal the election, all the republicans had to do to win was start flushing money down the toilet like democrats to get more votes. It doesn’t matter anyway our country is being screwed by socialist ideas. Most the freedoms we think we still have were taken away long ago by FDR and other socialists. Republicans do nothing to fix it so don’t think I agree with them either. We are becoming a socialism and its total bullshit. Kerry was a socialist and Bush is too. It doesn’t matter where the two parties stand on issues that are constitutionally not a matter of federal government like income taxes, abortion, welfare, social security, and many other programs that were put in place to take our freedoms away. Don’t believe it? Read the article 1 and 2 of the constitution. They explain the powers of our congress and president. Our congress is making laws that they are not lawfully able to create. They are illegally spending our money. These pork barrel republicans are just as bad as the old style democrats at plunging us farther into debt and creating a socialism. Democracies and Socialisms are terrible forms of government. Lets bring back the constitutional republic that made america great. http://www.usconstitution.com

    Comment by Kromm — 12/7/2004 @ 9:41 pm

  392. Oh my God. Am I glad I do not live in the States. Your presidency got stolen a second time!

    Comment by daan — 12/8/2004 @ 8:11 pm

  393. THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD STUPID ENOUGH TO ALLOW THE OPEN THEFT OF THE PRESIDENCY….TWICE…

    THE MEDIA ROLLS OVER AT KEY MOMENTS IN OBVIOUS WAYS…

    Comment by oCEAN ORACLE — 2/11/2005 @ 2:53 am

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