Lets get the clarification first- whether this is indeed from RPK...

Nevertheless, I pity the man. He refused the red pill, even struggles to keep the matrix working, frightened to death his people will 'wake up', leaving him alone in there.

Weakling.

What qualities of strength do you have that allows you to call others weaklings ???

The general election is round the corner, this could well be another UMNO smear attempt, the timing sounds just about right.

Furthermore your above statement is
self-contradictory, you ask for judgements to be with held until the man can come forward and defend himself and yet in the same breath you pass your own judgement.

Wan,

It's not self-contradictory. The "man" I referred to is the author of the email. My comment was not targetted to RPK, until he clarified it is indeed him. Judgement was passed onto the man, not RPK at the moment of posting.

Yes, the election is around the corner, but it's not a matter of propaganda by any party. It would be up to the voters to decide. What I am concerned here is the content and the message the author was trying to send across.

Yes, probably this shall effect some parties on the opposition front, but it doesn't bring about much support for the BN too as it is offensive to the 2nd class citizens in BN. What it can do with such sensitive and brainless claims of a superior race is harm and unrest.

Any clear-minded person would see this as an isolated case of some people calling for the idea of a kasta like system. Pauline Hanson was a good example of such people. Hitler with his Aryan idea was such a man. They does not represent the whole nation, but their idea if left alone can be very dangerous.

I must admit my previous post as being emotional. Yes, what quality I have which permit me to call others 'weaklings'. I must apologize for that remark.

However, running away from the issue and choosing to close our eyes to such an extreme propaganda is not the answer. I leave it to the Malays to judge it for themselves. For the sake of the Malays themselves and the nation as whole, open up your eyes and mind.

Whether it was really him or not is actually non-issue. The important thing is he is right. What does his message say that's not true? Does anybody deny the reality of ketuanan melayu? Do you, Darren?

The only thing this ketuanan has acheived is a medley of across-the-board abuse. Judiciary, the police (who are more interested in nabbing homos), extreme cronism and nepotism etc. Keep the ketuanan but please leave non-malays out of UMNO-PAS squabbles.

Dear Wan,

No to ketuanan Melayu, agreeable to social engineering considerations for the bumiputera. Aye to bumiputera scaffolds, not to Malay per se.

Justifications for special treatment shouldn't be made on lordship. So Wan believes in ketuanan Melayu. At least he is honest about it.

Sincerely,
Chez

No to ketuanan Melayu? It's not really your choice, is it Chez? So learn to live with it like Fooji has wisely done.

http://www.aizuddindanian.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=670

Quote by Fooji: So what's the big fuss. I can live with it.

The blogger is WRONG in behaving like a kangoroo court judge. How can one quote dubious sources and ask someone to reply whether it is he or she. It is against the rule of law which says that the onus of proof is on the prosecution, not accuse.

The above statements in support of the e-mail are NOT mine, I suspect X might be behind them.
I deny any link to such racist postings...and to avoid confusion any further postings on this matter are not mine also.

I have posed RPK two very simple questions on Bungaraya since he wrote his explanation last night. The questions were: do you personally and/or politically support the concept of Ketuanan Melayu? If no, will you lead, or cause to lead, a campaign on the scale of FAC to denounce the concept?

RPK is a subscriber to Bungaraya and he would have seen my questions under the thread "Let's put in on record". RPK has yet to answer them. Will he? Could he? I have my doubts. In fact, I doubt many, if any, among the ex-UMNO people in PKR has the guts to openly denounce ketuanan melayu. They can't because they have to leave the door open for thenm to re-join UMNO in the future.

http://pub219.ezboard.com/fmalaysiaforeverfrm2

Its obviously a parody. In the full email that I read from the aizuddindanian blog, RPK mentions funding banquets through corruption etc. Aiyah, nuff saidlah. Sheesh,making mountains out of the rumor of molehills!

Its a Parody, but not a very well written one. Or maybe I just don't have a sense of humour.

Whats the problem with u wan?? Jeff, please tell that idiot ( Wan) that its not me who post that message ( check the IP).

Wan, you are known for your racist remarks anayway. So, stop behaving like a child and act like a man. If, you don't have the guts to stand what you believe, than please stop posting, and also...please stop crying like a baby!!

parody? nah i don't believe it is a parody at all. it ccould be RPK's innermost feelings unwittingly revealed so now he's worming himself out by saying it was a paradoy.

and talking about 'lord of the lands' (ketuanan melayu), what ketuanan melayu? the lord of the lands are the orang asli! they are the original (asli, see) people to settle here, so they are rightly the lord of the lands. the bumipetera title should rightly belongs to them. sadly the melayu had taken over their status and pushed them aside. talk about colonising.......

x, take a look at yourself before you start calling people racist. you are the racist not me. i just call a spade a spade. do u deny malays are lord of this land?

There's a simple reason why people can easily believe Wan's supposed message is the real thing even when it isn't. And that reason is that it is Wan who can sometimes post racist and religionist comments. If he is complete innocent, non-racist, non-religionist, then nobody believe when someone impersonate him. Why people believe Wan can post ugly racist remarks? Maybe because he (Wan) has tendency to be racist. That's why. So, look to yourself Wan, in the mirror.

Fooji..Yes, probably you can live with it. We also acknowledge “Ketuanan Melayu” as part of UMNO's agenda.

However you put it, I would not like to take this debate as a way to decide or influence anyone to choose who they want to vote in 2004. It is up to the parties to get their real agendas sorted out and the people's effort to challenge them before they walk to the ballot box.

Whether UMNO-BN or PKR has a truer "Ketuanan Melayu" as their agenda is up for each individual to decide. Yes, maybe UMNO has to protect the Malay's right. Maybe to the non-malays, they believe their rights are still protected and they can live with the amount of rights they can get now despite being deprived of lots of government benefits such as scholarships, business deals, etc which their Malay counterparts can get easily.

What I am more interested in debating here is the contents of RPK's email. To me, I am against every single thing he claimed in his purportedly 'poked fun', tongue-in-cheek, or his heroic daring attempt to get people to talk about this. He has reduced to sell on the basis of his so-called guts-to-speak to divert commenters' attention from the ideas he harbored about his superior race and other lower classes of citizens. Now he wants to challege the people to debate about who to vote for and leave him alone; forget about his mistake of not understanding the nature of the “reply” button in a Yahoo group.

Lets get back to the content. It's not about whether you can live with it or not. It's whether you agree or reject his ideas because in the end, how the younger generations (Malays or non-malays) think that matters the most. What message we pass on to our kids will matter. We form the mould in which their brain will develop on. This will define the path Malaysians will be walking to the future.

RPK is such a product of a system that teaches a young Malay the idea of Malay being the "Tuan" and other races being inferior because they are decendents of immigrants; people belonging to China, or India, not Malaysia. They are allowed to stay here not because they were borned here or can help contribute to the country, but because Malays are sympathizing their homeless fate. This system also teaches this young RPK that it is okay to promote and live in such a system; that this system shall do no harm for his own people, or other races or the country as a whole. This very system RPK is preaching maintains that it has been like this in the PAST, shall remain as it was NOW, and will be just the same in FUTURE. That the non-malays are not really Malaysians, that the Chinese still idolise Mao Tse Dong, the Indians wants to go back to India, and all they are doing here is trying to take over the land and ‘steal’ their richess.

Yes I do feel bad being called a second class citizen. I do feel bad when my Malay friend was absorbed into American Degree Program while I have to endure STPM despite the fact my SPM result was far far better than his. As you can already guess, I'm not rich. I couldn't afford to study abroad. I performed well in study. Why my country did not give me this opportunity? It's because the system says I'm a second class citizen and I should live with it.

Yes, I can live with it. But what saddens me more is the fact Malaysia will not be progressing the way she can with such a system, and the Malays cannot see that all these special rights are not really helping but destroying themselves in the face of globalization. We are all Malaysians. I hope to see my children having a better life compared to his dad. I want Malaysia to surpass other countries in modernization. But RPK's ideas are only slowing the process, or maybe dragging all of us down.

Just like you, I can can live with it too, Fooji. In fact I tasted a lot of the second class syndrome in my academic years from schools to university.

Take Singapore for example. Why are we so lagging behind? Singapore was once part of Malaya and they started off just about the same condition as us when the British left. But why are they so far ahead of us now? The number of brains in our countries is many many times theirs. Why? Remember what happened when our Malays said openly in public that they pity the fate of the Singaporean Malays? Their very own race in Singapore retaliated stating that they are very happy with their life in Singapore and generally, they dont feel being sidelined by their government.

And why do we find our top students obtaining Asian scholarships, enrolling into their Junior Colleges, and later into their universities? How many of these great brains of ours got drained out? How many of them returned to contribute to their motherland? WHy? Because they are second class citizens here. They see no point in contributing to a country that doesn’t value their brain because of their skin color. They see no point working for a system that would never allow them to fly high because they are not supposed to be higher than their ‘Tuan’. Their father told them, “Son, go out. There are plenty of opportunities out there. Don’t stay here.”

And why we read in newspapers government projects got delayed, gov funds spent unnecessarily, Malays graduates finding themselves very hard to get a job in the private sector, the idea that Chinese are still richer than Malays, the idea that Malays can't compete without Government's help? Why our national car manufacturers have to get Government's help, why we must buy a Waja when deep in our heart, we are yearning for a Honda City? Why?

To our dear Malay friends, is it doing you an enormous sense of proud and pleasure if we accept ourselves as second class citizens? Does this claim of “ketuanan” makes you more Malaysian than us? Do you think we can progress with such a mentality? If you see a Palestinian Muslim fighting with a Malaysian Chinese while you are in UK, who do you side (if you really have to choose one)?

I hope the Malays can think about it. One day, I hope the Malays will feel grateful to RPK for waking them up and opening their eyes to see why we are not going to make it, if we keep on producing younger generations with such a mentality.

Heard this from a song, “..till the planets collide, they’ll never see eye to eye, until they decide, to set the differences aside…” We can choose to wait for the planets to collide, we can fight among ourselves, or we can set the differences aside and work as a team.

Wan (whoever you are),

I really regret to inform you that I have decided not to answer or participate in any dialogue with you on this matter. First reason being I do not know how many Wan/s we are looking at here. Second, I find you do not really have any substance in your arguments apart from asking people to look at themselves in the mirror.

I only hope we can engage in peaceful exchange of ideas; that is if you disagree on something, please spit out your ideas in a civilised manner and explain to me why I was wrong. If I realise I made a mistake, I'll apologise and correct it. More importantly, I shall be grateful to you for pointing to me something I might not know.

Now with x in the already blur picture, I think it's good if you can provide a valid email address instead of a website url so we can contact you to verify your opinions or exchange our thoughts off this comment board.

Lets promote peace, not hate.

Darren: This is the real Wan. Honestly, it's your loss if you don't want to debate openly with me.

As for my e-mail. It's my right to maintain privacy. I hope you respect that.

For Venchaiden, what qualifies you to ask me to look in the mirror?

Look to yourself before you accuse others. Fooji obviously looked in mirror, understand reality, and that is why he can accept and be happy with his situation. But people like you don't.

This question is for Wan and any other proponents of Ketuanan Melayu:

"Ketuanan Melayu" presumably imply that Malays are a "superior" race. But in what ways are they superior?

So superior that they need quotas to get into university? So superior that they need government allocation of shares? So superior that they need 10% discount when buying new houses.

So superior that the very notion of removing government handouts scares the living daylights out of them? Superior in what sense?

Pray tell, Wan.

THIS IS THE REAL WAN.

READ THE 6th MESSAGE WRITTEN BY ME PLEASE , VENCHAIDEN IT'S OBVIOUS YOU CAN'T READ ENGLISH, I JUST HOPE YOUR TAMIL IS BETTER.
ONLY THE MESSAGES 1,2,6 AND THIS ONE UNDER MY NAME ARE REALLY MINE.
THOSE ABOVE THIS ARE NOT MINE.
I WAS COMPELLED TO DISREGARD WHAT I WROTE IN MESSAGE 6 TO CLARIFY THE MATTER AS VENCHAIDEN CLEARERLY IS NOT SUFFICIENTLY ENDOWEED INTELLECTUALLY TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION AND REALISE THAT SOMEONE IS USING MY NICK.

ANY FURTHER MESSAGES UNDER THS NICK ARE NOT MINE NO MATTER WHAT THEY STATE OR CLAIM.

In our own backyard, we are promoting 'ketuanan melayu' while in the international arena we critisize the U.S. and the Europeans for being racist and waging a war against the muslims.I have lived abroad for quite a while now, let me assure every reader here, there is NO institutionalised racism in the U.S. like the way we have it in Malaysia!! Everybody,in America is treated equally, a notion quite foreign to the likes of Wan. The U.S. were heavily criticisized by Malaysians when the U.S. attacked Iraq,many claimed it was not U.N. sanctioned thus being illegal.Is this a case of hypocrisy at it's worst? Our only hope is global domination of America and it's allies. I believe in Bush, when he said that the winds of change here....

Wan,I deny the reality or the rights of "ketuanan Melayu".You are a "racist".You and your likes are miserable losers, who can't compete in a equal footing. Ketuannan my foot!

Actually it does not bother me much to live by the name "Second Class Citizen". I understand perfectly well why the Malays want to cling on to to the title lord of the land.

I always try to put myself in their shoes to try to understand the root of their arguments and actions. I find this a very disturbing idea not only because this will weaken their own people, it will also deter the nation's progress.

Looking at the history, our Malays by nature has this tendency to prioritize first by religion or race and followed by nationality. This kind of mindset makes it even harder for us to work for a so-called Malaysian identity because part of the people does not regard being called a Malaysian as something they can feel proud of anymore.

In every facets of our life, we can see evidence of such a practice of de-Malaysianizing our people into championing the idea of racial/religion segregation. It is giving me an impression that our "tuan" regards their fellow non-malay citizens as a threat that should be silenced while on the other hand, welcome the brotherhood in the name of Islam regardless of their nationality. We see a large influx of scholars from middle East countries into our public universities to study, research and lecture. Why don't we see much academicians from other well-known universities being invited here to do the same? I even hear a 2nd Class Citizen lecturer complaining how hard it is nowadays for them to secure for place in our public uni to teach or research if you are not a Muslim or Malay.

This is only one small example how this system, over the years has evolved into a monster that does not value its citizen by their ability, but by race or religion. How on earth do you expect these 2nd Class intellectuals to contribute under such a dissapointing system? So they give up the idea of "Malaysian: Satu Bangsa, Satu Negara" and turn to protect his own interest selfishly, and move out to the private sector.

Now we introduce a fake meritocracy system that matches the CGPA of matriculation and STPM results. How can you compare them, when they are in fact two different exams? Walk into our local universities, run a check on the top achievers and see if these are mostly STPM or matriculation students. During my days, most of the Malay students are either busy taking part in Reformasi or simply does not have the interest to compete with the top students. As a result, I see most of them staying back, when we finish our study.

But where have all these 1st class graduates gone to? Well, mostly overseas, attached to foreign companies, researching for big players like Intel or Motorola, some went to the factories and fade into the group of second class citizens struggling to make ends meet, competing to climb the corporate ladder while looking for every single opportunity to flee this country for a better life, somewhere they know their ability would be noticed and valued.

So with these kind of attitude, who are to be blamed if not the system itself? It is people like RPK who does not see how important it is for us to put down our race-religion differences and work hand in hand or compete among ourselves if we must, so we do not fall asleep even for a second in this ever fast changing world of globalization.

Now if anyone thinks what I had commented above is irrelevant to RPK's hope to see the Malays remaining in this spoon-fed system or even think what I babbled so much is merely racist remarks with no logic, you are welcome to tell me why.

I do not hope to see our people resort back to a "black" history we swept under the rug. When our kids do not know what racial hatred can do to our country, another "513" could be just hiding around the corner waiting for election to come. We chosed to hide, instead of openly discuss the matter.

Now I have an even greater fear. Come Election 2004, should I stock up some groceries and dig an underground shelter if the two big elephants fight with us the small "kancil" right in between? These elephants are not only fighting among themselves, they are at the same time trying to step on the "kancil"s asking them to take side. With the people like RPK around, I suddenly wish the next general election be delayed to 2020, to see if this kasta system he is preaching so hard can really bring us there.

Wan, why do you make racist statements like "I hope your Tamil is better than your English".

You assume I'm Tamilian. I'm not but even if I were, what's wrong with that?

You are hateful, you are spiteful and you bring disgrace to your race.

And please, stop playing the fool and saying "This is the real Wan" and "That is the fake Wan" and so on. Nobody knows which is which anymore.

All we know is when there is something racists or spiteful, it is the REAL Wan.

I find this Wan amusing, although like many others, I never quite can tell when it's the "real" Wan or the "fake" Wan or indeed, whether both are the same persons. Maybe he's got multiple personalities. One thing's for sure, though, whether it's the "real" or "fake" Wan, both are clearly racist. Which leads me to conclude they are, in fact, just one person -- one person trying to play the fool with all of us. And we (myself included, I guess) are suckers for his silly games by even responding to him. Congrats, Wan. You should be a politician.

Please Lotte, you're giving too much credit to Wan. I have said this before and I'll say it again, I suspect Jeff has hired Wan to act as the comic relief in is weblog. This guy is hilarious!!! I woudn't be surprised he's working at some circus or is a 'guest of honor' at a mental institution. Someone earlier commented that his arguments have no depth. No depth? More like....what the hell is he talking about?Everytime I read his comments I'm like thinking to myself..'Huh what?' Where does this dummy get his facts from? Anyway Wan, please keep on entertaining us with your hilarious inputs, my racist and mentally challenged friend.

Lotte Lenya alerted me about this blog. It's good. And that Wan is good too -- good at entertaining us with his purposely ridiculous views.

I think all of you are taking him too seriously. I followed the RPK saga through various links in this blog and others. In the end, it was a spoof.

Have you guys ever considered that this Wan fellow is a satirist? Think about it. He's probably having the last laugh. He's probably not even a Malay or a Muslim, but someone else pulling our leg.

I mean, nobody can be that blatantly racist, misogynistic, religiously radical. And look at his "I'm the real Wan" and "That's the fake Wan" double act. Isn't it obvious that he's having a laugh on us all.

Do like I do. Enjoy reading his comic relief as Sudo Nim puts it. Then you won't get all upset. Good for you, Wan! You make all of us realize the ridiculousness of bigotry by your parody!

Sudo nim this is your psychiatrist here, I see you've gone back online again after all the therepy we've been through, I just hope you're still taking your medication.
Please stop pretending to be an intellectual, we tested you and you're a dimwit drug addict.

I'm not tamil, i'm a pariah.

Venchaiden, I don't care if you're pariah you're still my brother and I love, eventhough I have a phobia about dark skinned people who like to burn their widows.

It's very, very, very obvious that someone is playing the fool here. The following are obviously FAKE:

1. Venchaiden (why would he say that about himself)
2. Sudo Nim (obviously he won't say such a thing judging from his previous posting

I don't want to speculate who might be behind this. But I think most readers of this blog know WHO the trouble maker is. (Hint: he's someone who sounds like he's from Terengganu).

For the Fake Venchaiden and Sudo Nim: good try on provoking people. Both the real Venchaidena and Sudo Nim have more dignity and intelligence than you!

Wow, this one is hard to analyse. There's so many. But agree with Lulu Brown, whom I know personally (she's a big fan of Frank Sinatra).

I think her analysis is correct. The real Wan is probably not responsible for the fake Sudo Nim and the fake Venchaiden.

QUOTE: August 5, 2003 05:24 PM

"I have said this before and I'll say it again, I suspect Jeff has hired Wan to act as the comic relief in is weblog. This guy is hilarious!!!"

This is cool ;-)

Please disregard the message above, it's not mine.
I moderate not and comment.

I don't know who pasted that message above but it was not me.
Will who ever is doing this please stop.

Haha...I really do not mind if anyone would like to use my nick to post something. How hard it is anyway?

I've already said what I wanted to say and I am sure just like any other real commenters, my stand on this issue is loud and clear. Whether the RPK thing is a spoof or not, I dont bother. Whether you guys are all fake or not, it's not important. If anyone would like to use my nick to cloud the cloudy the situation more, please do so. I would just use another nick to post. My stand will just be the same. To me the content matters, not the sender anymore.

I think I will not choose to reply to anyone who commented on this, but to talk about the main thing Jeff put on this blog. I hope you guys (the real ones) will do just the same. If we want to strike conversations, we can use ICQ or Messenger or even emails.

So if the RPK's email was a fake one, I am sure the coward who wrote it must be thinking he is creating a great propaganda to destroy certain politician or party's image in wake of the coming big election. I must say thank you to him and all other fake things I read here. Without you guys, nobody would want to talk about this. I pity the victims, but life is unfair anyway. But fear not if you are clear of your own stand.

So cheer up guys. Nothing is real for sure. Some people like to think all the things they encounter in their life is a huge scam, and someone is carefully crafting it behind. They are constantly paranoid and skeptical about all the things he see. That is why we read so many funny theories such as the US and Isreal masterminded 911 and blame it on Muslims. What tickles me more is many of my Malay friends actually believe it after reading the mails. Then they start to mass forward it. Even go to the extend of telling me in person what the US is having in mind. I also get some photos of US soldiers raping Iraqi girls. Many simply believe it's real without even think about it. They would even add a few cursing lines targetted at US, before mass forwarding it.

How easy we can be doped into believing something. To me, the simplest answer is enough to explain what I see. What I dont see and dont know, I dont want to guess, or believe.

Maybe there is a huge scam behind all this RPK stuffs. I dont deny that. The moment I read the email, I was more interested in the content rather by who the sender was (I dont even know who RPK was anyway). But hey, relaxs. We cant deny the fact that the Malays are getting more and more addicted to this sweet drug of special rights. So lets just look at the content and give your two cent's worth. Then leave. Only fools would want to argue with fools.

Jeff, maybe you can some up with a system whereby readers who want to comment must obtain a password from you that matches only a unique username. It isn't hard to do right? Judging from the amount of effort readers put to comment here, I think they wont find it troublesome to enter a password to post.

So to those who wants to use my nick to post, please do fast! It seems like nobody is interested in my nick. What, not nice to hear? Else you would not be able to use my nick when Jeff decides it's time to password protect commenters. I think this is better than blocking IP addresses.

It's just an idea anyway. So Jeff, if things really get out of hand, you can either do that password thing, or just remove this comment tool, because these fools only want to create confusion here to defeat the purpose of commenting.

Oh Wan, is this the best you can do, putting up racist comments and signing off with my name? God, you are pathetic!! Someone commented that this guy may be a sattirist, I beg to differ. I've actually met cartoons like that!! Sorry Jeff, for my part contribution to all the 'hoopla' surrounding our 'friend' thus turning evrybody's attention from the actual topic you posted.

Wan is so.....sad

Not being racial here but lets face the fact. chinese do not need to complain about those rights because they already control the economy even with this handicap.And the indian community is also picking up with more and more remarkable & successful Malaysian indians.

Having had the rights for years, bumiputras are still lacking behind. No wonder Mahathir cried. No wonder Mahathir did 'melayu mudah lupa'. no wonder no wonder.....Wake up bumiputras, if you do not want to lose your land!

Dont get me wrong...I am actually a supporter of bumiputra rights. Afterall they were 'forced' to bersawah padi, tanam jagung etc long ago during british rule. What i dont agree is the way it is fed to them. Mahathir was right, it makes them lazier.