great piece on continuing educational retreat from job one: academics. The notion that kids need to be bribed to read is, as Tupac might say, "1/2 baked". Trying to sex-up course curriculum with ebonic laced dribble is "Ludacris" (sic). From my perspective, this technique should be Caput.

Word.

"I bet you never been to the hood"
I bet this kid hasn't either. But besides that, if listening to his music brought comfort and inspiration to these kids then wouldn't the case be that they would WANT to read Shakespeare or Frost to excel?

Here's another obvious call for education VOUCHERS.

Michelle,

Your trying hard to be Bill O'Reily. Hey I get the point about Dumbed down education, I get pissed when some right winged Imposter klan member approaches me with Street slang. However I had to laugh at you when you used the phrase "Lament racist". Every week some Ghetto persona type is under attack in your column. YES thats whats wrong with the world! Baggy pants is killing the earth! DONT SPEK THAT STREET SLANG! I know plenty of dignified people with Corn rows, Michelle although I would never wear my hair that way, There not all criminals.

Your article spent too much time on Killing Tupacs legacy, than the dumbing down of education. YES tupac was ignorant, but i love his Work Even with the contradictions and negative sterotypes He still hits home in a ton of topics. I havent researched Shakespeare, was he a saint. Personally I never got the Shakespeare love fest. I noticed you took some of Pac's poorest work to make your point, and look we all know Pac wasnt maya Angelo with written poems. These poems were never intended to be published, they were mere Scraps Pac wrote when he was bored. I'm sure you knew that and left it out your article intentionally. i know never let the truth get in the wa.... any way there are some good poems that we can use to stimulate, like the poem title after the book "The rose that grew from concrete".

As for comments you made about the Black panthers, and Cop hating. th
e black panthers fought and gave there freedom and people like me and you are benefiting because of it. Was Pac a black panther worshipper? or was his mother a actual memeber. you know the answer. Michelle you will never get your ass whipped by a cop simply becuase your in the wrong place wrong time. you will never lose a child by a cops hand,. You will never have that child framed like he is a criminal like Guliani and the commissioner kelley did when they wanted to open Sealed juvenile records of a deceased black man. You see why cops are hated?

Your opinion is worth about 25 cents in N.Y. as pac Would say "The geame is 2 be sold not told!"

Now we know how Massachusetts educators have chosen to spend the surplus monies the Education Department was so worried they'd have to return.
[http://theunmentionables.blogspot.com/2004/06/use-it-or-lose-it-this-appears-to.html]

With this sort of crap being pushed in middle schools, it's no wonder our colleges are reduced to teaching Buffy, The Simpsons, Harry Potter, and Star Trek.
[http://theunmentionables.blogspot.com/2004/06/academic-maladjustment-when-in-doubt.html]

Is there a 12-step program to become NOT 'Hooked on Phonics'??

Geez....talk about not taking personal responsibility for your own abilities - or lack there of.....

I think my t-shirt slogan (front side) from the other day -- the one with "(Your public education tax dollars at work.)" on the back -- could have been almost anything said or written by the Tupac fan. Eesh.

"to give them the inspiration to achieve the goals"

Ah, but there is another issue. School should be about giving you the tools to achieve lofty goals, as well as the ability to even dream that high. That is not the same as dreaming of being high all the time.

This is just idiotic. Talking to some Pakistani about my Dell tech support doesn't seem so bad if people here are going to start accepting this form of English.

In response to the comment you posted about your Tupac article, this sounds like the same song, 10 millionth verse. The person wrote "don't hate the player hate the game that created these conditions".

Well, life's not a "game". And for the most part the adults living in the "hood" are the parties responsible for creating those "conditions". It's not society, it's not "the man", it's not the Bush administration. Stay in school, listen to your teachers, stay away from drugs, and a collegiate education is yours for the taking. Between admissions policies which prefer minorities, minority scholarships, and student loans, it should be fairly simple for most anybody to escape the "hood" these days. Of course, if you treat life like "a game", you're destined to spend the rest of your life blaming others for your problems.

I see where the system is coming from on this issue. When I was 6 or 7 I started reading sci-fi and horror books. My mother saw this and was concerned as was my uncle (my de facto father) who pretty much verbally beat the crap out of me for reading that instead of whatever was considered 'good for me' at the time.
My mother goes to school and speaks to the Principal and asks him if she should stop me from reading 'that kind of stuff.' His reply was to let me read. Simple. He said that at that age the important thing is to let me create a habit of reading. Since then I've read a plenty of sci fi and horror, but also a lot of the main stream 'classics.'
I wonder if I would've read all those if my mom would've stopped me from reading 'that stuff' when I was young?

I've always said it, and now that I'm a parent I try to stick to it as much as possible: Nothing can overcome good or bad parenting. If someone's big concern is that a book of poetry is going to twist their kid, then he/she isn't doing right at home. It's the same kind of mentality that spurs people to picket a video game, yet watch TV when their child comes home from CompUSA without asking "What's in the bag?"

Idiotic

One last thing about Tupac. I haven't read his poetry but I've listened to his music. Try it. Let go of the hate for words you yourself use and listen to what the song actually SAYS. Yes, there are songs in there that have no actual social value, as there are in so many other types of music, but there are also songs that give voice to a group of people that aren't represented by CNBC, CNN and the Michelle Malkins of the world.

"leave the ghetto in the ghetto" is what your article boils down to.

If you want what we have, do what we do. Life's oldest lesson.
What does Tupac have? A grave.

While I don't think there is anything wrong with reading and understanding a great variety of literature, educators should be focused first on basic education before deciding that students should read 2Pac Shakur poetry. I hope that was your point Michelle.

Business is not done in Eubonics. Successful people do not speak like thugs, not even rappers. 2Pac Shakur actually attended a Fine Arts University in Baltimore, Maryland where he studied music, i.e. he was a classically trained musician. Shocked? You shouldn't be.

2Pac might have been the first to criticize the decision to substitute literature for his poetry as required reading.

The real absurdity of all this is calling his work "poetry" and "music". Anyone who has ever read poetry or listened to music knows that the scrawlings and bellowings of an illiterate are neither.

2 Words: Home School.
My wife and I did it with all 3 of our sons. We knew it was not smart to allow our boys to wallow in filth 6-8 hours every day in government schools. Parents only get one shot at building a good citizen out of their child and to give that responsibility to the schools is, in post-60's America, not a wise choice.

((gumming the words)) In my day... it was MAD Magazine.

The thought was for a long time that if it wasn't edifying, then it shouldn't be read by kids. I wonder where "Harry Potter" would have been categorized 100 years ago by school teachers. But this... this is a large step beyond "not edifying." And the Tupac fan embodies what a steady diet of this next step accomplishes.

Instead of suggesting students read the violent, obscenity-laced Tupac "poetry", parents and teachers may try another music icon...BOB DYLAN...his lyrics are filled with words that should have kids looking in the dictionary, rather than trying to decipher some sort of obscure "code" like that in the Tupac book...and when you read and hear Dylan's lyrics, it is truly poetry...

A good argument for private school. I just wish conservative Christians parents would quit trying to make their children be the "salt" of the public school system. You're sending you're kids to a SEWER every day.

That Tupac fan, with his poor grammar and spelling, proves that there needs to be more Shakespeare in the classroom.

A bit of deja vu reading your fan's letter: he writes better than quite a number of Berkeley undergraduates, and in the same style.

The vast ramifications of this tupac character is just the addition of more sad commentary of what, we as a nation have become. The fact that "some" (hopefully not more than a few)teachers would encourage these kids by giving in to their demands(gracefully disquised as requests) is more viability to just how disfunctional our public school system is as well. Obviously all the millions of dollars towards educating our children hasn't and will not alter what has already been done by the lack of one man & one women,father & mother, sticking together and laying a GOD fearing, Christ following, biblical standard for them to exemplify. Question: Why is it that some mothers will spend $500. on a pair of sneakers for their child instead of $200. for "Hooked on Phonics" when they and their kids can't speak proper english and wonder why no one wants to hire them? (Thank you Bill Cosby for that insightful article).

The liberal brainwashing education system is on the way out. The country is making the natural evolution to conservatisim due to abortion (more libs kill their next generation). The conserative trend will continue and will start to overcome the liberal strangle-hold on education.
Michelle, as for shawns comment about you not being "ass whipped by cops for being in the wrong place" he's right about that but for the wrong reason. I doubt you steal cars, run from cops, deal crack, gang bang, do drive bys, beat your kids,....

"The essence of having knowledge is to apply it; The essence of not having it is to confess your ignorance".... Confucious

"No race can prosper till it learns that there is much dignity in tilling the field as in writing a poem"....Booker T. Washington

"Thoughts lead on to purpose; Purpose goes forth in action; Actions form habits; Habits decide character; Character determins our destiny".... Tyrone Edwards

"Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped".... Calvin Coolidge

All of these wisdoms apply here:

Booker would be laughed out of the hood today....

Confucious, would be a good rhyme....

Tyrone, does not speak our language....

Calvin, who dat?....

Unfortunately todays deities are: movie stars, rap stars and all the liberal lunies who are always trying to make things comfortable for our kids.... the standards have been dropped many times to appease the masses and what do we have to show for it.... Thank you liberals.... you have all done so much for our country.... What was it that John F. Kennedy said,... I'm willing to bet that his speech is not being taught to our school children today....

Have you ever heard of lowered expectations? No wonder kids can't problem solve, have ADD, only deal in 'concepts', etc. When teachers (dare I say, parents, also?) ask so little of the children, minimum exertion is what they'll receive. The kids that excel on their own initiative are few and far between. Most need to be guided, taught, challenged. The idea that kids can't excel because of social/economic/ethnic origins is crippling this country - the less you expect, the less you get!

Hey Shawn -

Those heroic black panthers and their violent splinter groups killed many, many cops in the 70's, typically ones that just pulled them over for traffic violations or were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And some of the cops were black.

How do I know? Because Tupac's aunt killed a friend of my father, and my father guarded her in the hospital while she chanted ""If I had some poison gas, I'd throw it on your white ass."

But I suppose my father, an exceedingly gentle man and easygoing ex-police officer is just spouting lies of oppression.

Get a clue.

Most difficult assignment in an English class studying Tupac's lyrics? Diagraming one sentence.

You are such a bad girl, opening up the comments section on THIS subject as a device to further prove your point! Oh yeah, you have the right stuff for this gig. Good job!

Ahh, I smile thinking of the day where hopefully, I'll receive similar fan-mail like you Michelle. :)

My message to kids today (especially those in Junior High and High Schools):

I am responsible for hiring and supervising people in my department. During the interview, you will have zero chance at the job if you come dressed in baggy pants, Enyce Jerseys, Sean John shirts, a (non-religious) doo-rag on your head, etc. If you speak poor english or ebonics or gangsta at all, you will have zero chance at a job. If every third word out of your mouth is "know what I'm sayin'?" or "shizzle" or whatever, you will not get the job.

Now, if you want to read Tupac in school, go ahead. You've been warned

michelle...your comments on tupac sickens me because of your lack of understanding of the person that he really was. Sure enough, his works are violent, related to sex and drugs, but there was also another side to him which u didnt touch on. "you read better stuff on tiolets than his poetry?". its pathetic seeing people like you trying to get to the mainstream with your pointless opinions. I would like you to listen to "changes". hope that song would change your mind.

michelle.....i'm not a fan of tupac....but i think that "the reading stuff on tiolets were better than reading his poems" part was a bit too far..thats y i responded like that.....sorry about the matter...

Its very sad when people come to conclusions without knowing ANYTHING about what they were talking about. You want to know something? When i first listened to Tupac, I did not like him. I too thought that he was too violent and even not very talented. But that was before, when i missed something very strong. I dont expect you to understand what I am talking about, but Tupac has a connection with his fans. No, im not talking about both of them being from the ghetto. I mean, he actually communicates with you 1 on 1 just through a pair of headphones. Sure, he has some meaningless and filthy songs where he was just reacting out of anger, like all of us do at times. But he has some songs that will hit you so hard emotionally, that you could just break down and cry. He has inspired millions, and like he once said, he might not change the world, but he will spark the brain who will.And to even further the point, Tupac died at the age of 25, he had not even fully matured. He had no father figure around or even a mother around most of the time. And still, look where he made it! What do you people expect from someone raised like that, who is still basically a kid! I actually feel sorry for people who dont even give Tupac a chance, because you have missed and are still missing something you will never experience in a lifetime. And his mission is not even yet complete, thats the beauty of it all. I do not think it's a bad idea to have Tupac read in a class, but i can see the point of the opposition. Although, i would guarentee grades would go up. However, this article was extremely out of hand for proving this point, extremely biased, and in some parts, completely false. Without a single question, Tupac has taught me more than a teacher ever has or ever will. And there are millions that will agree with that statement. I suggest that the writer of this article read the book titled "Holler if ya Hear Me" by Michael Dyson, and I will promise you that she will see Tupac in a whole new light. Only fans will understand some of the meaning of this post, because Tupac has something special that he shares only with us, "The Secrets of War".

"its pathetic seeing people like you trying to get to the mainstream with your pointless opinions."

boycool, i don't think Michelle is trying to be a lemming

These poems are not intended for your generation, therefore it is understandable that you don't get the "fuzz". They were never intended to be as well-written as by the great poets, who for most kids are nothing but a name on the top of the page.
Tupac wrote these poems when he was between 15-18 years old, so students will most likely relate and, maybe just maybe, start to take notice in Poetry. So they too can express how it feels to be in love, deal with anger, drug addiction etc. Let’s just hope people won’t ridicule their first attempts, like u did Tupac’s!

I’m just going to ask you one thing; that’s to remember Tupac was a human being just like you. It’s clear you aren’t a fan of him, but that doesn’t give you the right to be disrespectful. After all he has been dead for eight years, and can’t defend himself.

Peace

Another great point! Tupac wrote MOST of these poems as a child!

And this is to you Michlle Malkin:
Believe it or not, Tupac was probably about 10 times smarter than you ever will be. And I will swear on that. Time will soon show how smart he really was. The man is a GENIUS. Music aside.

Bob Dylan?Bob Dylan talked about war and how the government is wrong (Masters of War).He talked about a black man gettin screwed by the government (the Hurricane).He talked about drugs in most of his songs.So why is it so bad for a guy like Tupac to say it?

RIP Pac

Tupac wasn't here to represent grammar or spelling, he represented a generation from the ghetto and the truth. The world isn't a perfect place and trying to restrict literature to what you see as perfect isn't how it should be at all.

The Rose That Grew from Concrete

Did you hear about the rose that grew from a crack
in the concrete?
Proving nature's law wrong it learned 2 walk
without having feet.
Funny it seems but by keeping its dreams
it learned 2 breathe fresh air.
Long live the rose that grew from concrete
when no one else ever cared!

I suppose Picasso's work isn't acceptable because it was different from other artists? What does substituting 2 for to really hurt? If that's how he liked things then that's how his art is. I think it's a good idea to bring a different view of the world into the education system. By the way, will you guys please go learn about Shakespeare, Edgar Allan Poe, etc.'s history? They aren't exactly saints. And the sexual abuse case, he was convicted of touching her butt and she had already admitted in the court room to giving him oral sex in the club, I've seen the papers. That just pisses me off. Also, have you ever heard of Black/urban dialect poetry? Pac isn't the first. Anyway, I will say I don't think the students should be introduced to Shakur's work until high school so they can understand his point of view better and understand his roots with the Black Panthers and the ghetto.

In the Event of My Demise

In the event of my demise,
when my heart can beat no more.
I hope I die for a principle
or a belief that I had lived 4.
I will die before my time,
because I feel the shadow's depth.
So much I wanted 2 accomplish,
before I reached my death.

I have come 2 grips with the possibility,
and wiped the last tear from my eyes.
I loved all who were positive,
in the event of my demise!

I'm curious, I wonder what T.S. would of wrote or sung if his parents would have did what is right & just in their Creators eyes by making a responsible,heart-felt commitment to Him and to one another,"till death do we part",married and actually invested some quality time with one another and their offspring. Why is it that when a person, who knows full well, that after they surrender themselves to another in such a intimate and special way,are going to be left behind for someone else, proceed anyway and that, without some form of protection? Doesn't anyone see the epidemic in this country of single black mothers and what damage it does to ALL concerned? And even, in some cases, to those not concerned? And doing it time & time again? People, this energy being expended on the case of Tupac desperately needs to be redirected. We are wasting our childrens precious lives with such meaningless meanderings.Look around you and SEE what our idiosyncratic behavior patterns have created.It doesn't take a highly educated individual to figure out that the quality, or lack thereof, of what we put in, is all we can expect in the end. Ever heard of " YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT"? (the breakdown of which means what you read,hear,see & say).

I must say I forgot to mention a few things. 2Pac (I hope that won't irritate you, having to see the 2 rather than "Tu") has said many times in interviews that being a "thug" has little to do with society's definition. Being a thug to hip-hop artists simply requires you to do whatever it takes to come up out of the gutter and become a success, which could include society's "thug" in extreme cases I suppose. T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E., "The Hate U Gave Little Infants Fucks Everybody," which could be looked at as you get from us what you give to us. Also, N.I.G.G.A., "Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished," I look at this as fighting back against racism by making the epithet a fairly acceptable term that doesn't always put someone down. When you have a race calling each other "nigga" in a friendly greeting, you know racism is slowly deteriorating. I highly recommend some of you anti-Tupacs check out "Tupac: Resurrection," the movie. It shows him in an honest fashion, representing both his anarchist values with where society puts him and his more deep and emotional side. For example: a kid named Joshua was dying of cancer and his last wish was to meet Tupac. Tupac got on a plane and flew over and met the kid and then renamed his record label Joshua's Dream as a form of dedication. I truly believe that on September 13, 1996 the world lost a misunderstood yet controversial genius, and deep down inside, a great person and possible revolutionary.

it's troll feeding time...

tupac might be ok to read at the local coffee shop, but he's a very poor choice to be used in SCHOOL to teach BASIC READING and WRITING SKILLS

mustaches with monikers from the hood might turn you on and make you feel love (or hate) for your fellow man (or woman - don't wan't to discriminate against misogynists), but it doesn't do much when you're trying to teach a kid how to better himself/herself

use "2pac" to motivate kids? fine, just make damn sure they know his english skillz is teh crap

When I read your comments the first thing I HAD to do was laugh, but then I got worried. I realized how many people there are just like you living in this world. You know nothing about a man and you're quick to put him down to higher yourself. You do not begin to understand Tupac Shakur in the slightest way. You cannot be an appreciator of ART and be so closed-minded. Your ways are wrong and I am sure everbody can see that so there's no need for me to attack that issue.

Tupac Shakur was a brilliant man! He accomplished more in his twenty five years of life then you'll accomplish in your sad existence. Tupac spoke about the truth, something that people still try to avoid. You can't have millions of fans world-wide, for eight years and not have anything special. Tupac may have not been apart of the music genre you prefer, but even he was not so closed minded. He had a vast music library and even practiced ballet at you point of his life. Pac's message wasn't about Hip Hop, nah Pac was on some knowledge criteria, falling just short of being a prophet. If Moses, David, Isiah, or John, were born today, I wouldn't be suprised if they turned out to be just like Tupac. Pac saw things that people have to spend years at college trying to learn. Pac was filled with wisdom. He wasn't a thug. He spit at camera's to gain more record sells, he said this in an interview. But he shot two drunk cops beating up a innocent motorist, because that's who Tupac was. He drove hundreds of miles out of his way, with no publicity (this came out after his death), to visit a little girl whom had just had her face taken off by a dog. She was in the hospital and he stayed with her, by her bedside, for a day because that's who Tupac was. He was part of the make-a-wish foundation because Tupac thought highly of our young children's chances. He donated profit from his albums to inner-city organizations, with the only request that it not be made public until after his death because that's who Tupac was. He spoke POSITIVE to our kids when everybody else was pushing them away.

You cannot judge a person until you know every aspect about them, at least that's the standard when it comes to journalism and yet you seem to have done this. If a person is selling millions of records after eight years of his death, then that says how strong is message was eight years ago. You cannot hurt the legacy of Tupac Shakur. He is far more embedded into the souls of this world then you'll ever be.

"I am societies child, this is how they made me, and now im sayin what's on my mind and they dont want that. This is what you made me America."

Tupac Shakur

This chick really thinks she's hot stuff talking shit about a dead man, then being stuck up about the hate-mail she is receiving. This is exactly what she wanted, to further prove her point.
Do not take this as a threat or anything, but you really messed up when you dissed Tupac Shakur. He has THOUSANDS of people that would probably not only kill for him, but die for him. Because he is exactly that. "2-die-4"
I will be the first to admit, Tupac fans can be ignorant, but only because he is the only person they look up to. He is the father figure for the children that dont have a real father. He took time out of his schedule to visit kids in the hospital, to donate food to the ghetto, to give a good amount of his record sales to charities. What other rappers do you see doing that? huh? NOT MANY, you see them on T.V flaunting their 3 mansions with 10 cars, where Tupac actually said that he would never do that. He said that he would only take what he needed, and give the rest away. Yeah, Tupac called some women "bitches", but also explained his reasoning in the songs titled "wonda why they call u bitch". (where he proves some very valid points)
not to mention that Tupac, more than anyone has got me more into religion AND has convinced me to stay in school. But i guess he's just a nobody right?
I reccomend to everyone that you look more into things. The man is so powerful and so deep that people have actually compared him to Jesus. They actually call him "Black Jesuz". Im not saying this is right, but it just shows you how much of an impact he had.There is still more to come in the puzzle he left for us, so u have not heard the last of Tupac Shakur. His legacy will NEVER die. ~Makaveli lives on

RESEARCH !!!!! someday you'll learn ...
you're sorry
at least he's still alive with his lyrics, by the way, who are you ???

You people need to listen up...and listen up RIGHT NOW. How can you (Michelle Malkin and everyone else like her) be SO prejudice? When I say prejudice, I mean to make a prejudgment and you are no better than the men were to women in the early 1900s. You're not giving 2Pac a chance. Yes, you can treasure a poet/short story writer who was a drunkard, an insane individual, and a was person who married his 15 year old cousin, but you can't support a man who actually cared about kids having problems at home, crack babies, etc.? For one thing, 2Pac ain't NO Gangsta rapper, as you have said in your corny article. You're no better than the media that portays 2Pac wrongly, and no better than what I leave in the toilet everyday at 3:46 pm. 2Pac has made a huge impact on many people's lives and his works should not be looked over. How many kids have a role model that shares his thoughts/feelings with them to make them feel comfortable about what they are going through? That's someone who has a heart, and someone who should not be forgotten! The intelligence in that man's head was PHENOMONAL. Also, why complain about the way he writes his poems? Why complain about "sex" being mentioned in his poetry, when kids are learning about SEX IN SCHOOL? It just doesn't make sense to me...it doesn't. When there's RACISM around us, POLICE BRUTALITY around us, and WAR around us we learn about things in school that we are going to forget the next day. Yeah, he made us realize that. When he wrote the poems, he wanted to be unique...he did not want to write about killing people and planning murders like Edgar Allen Poe has done (Although 2Pac did treasure Poe's works). These were NOT, I repeat, these were not his intentions. These were not MEANT to be released in a book, for that matter...they were personalized to his friends and loved ones...that's why the language that is being used in there is being used, and the way he wrote the poetry is the way he wrote it. He speaks about the problems we have TODAY!!! He's teaching kids!! He's bringing things to their attention...he's opening the eyes of the youth with his music! But if 2Pac were to read your article he wouldn't give a CRAP about it...lend an ear to a song called, "Only God Can Judge Me"...he makes references to people like you...not people who don't understand his work, but people who don't care to LISTEN.

Only God can judge all of us...he opened up my eyes, and he'll even get through to you, Michelle, and maybe you will want to make the difference that he couldn't make.

wow, tupac sure seems to inspire a lot of hate in his disciples

Oh, wow these comments gave me a good chuckle for tonight!

Thug's Cry, you said, "Tupac was a human being just like you. It’s clear you aren’t a fan of him, but that doesn’t give you the right to be disrespectful. After all he has been dead for eight years, and can’t defend himself."

I'd hardly call it disrespect, it's more like using her right to free speech to criticize subpar educational material. So now we're not supposed to critize NE1 who's in da grave? His "artistic style" certainly criticized dead people, but most importantly it was completely disrespectful to many groups-whites, blacks, women, just to name a few.

Ryne: I never read Dylan's lyrics as a school assignment.

God's son: "You cannot judge a person until you know every aspect about them, at least that's the standard when it comes to journalism and yet you seem to have done this." Yes, columnists are paid to be neutral....

Though not a journalist, you certainly judge her with, "your sad existence."

And Makaveli: Wow, sounds like there's subtext of a threat there to me.

But yeah, you're right about the hate-mail. She probably does find it funny, I know I sure do.

Most of you are only reinforcing her point. Thanks.

Some of these more recent comments remind me of an old saying, perhaps by Confucius:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Im going to feed right into this. Fuck Michelle.
I saw the little update on the front page, showing the hate-mail too...well, you are an asian bitch. Athena- you are a bitch too. All of you racists are bitches. All of you will burn in Hell.
I hope that Michelle, Athena, and the rest of you will DIE SLOW.

Michelle will be sorry...

Why is Michelle a "bitch"? Because she pointed to the failings of our education system? Pointing out that young people reading certain books or listening to certain music without counter exposure to the real humanities, is detrimental to their growth and ability to integrate into the world as we know it?

Anyone claiming that is "racist", might well consider that THEY are actually the racist for assuming color was part of the discussion. Michelle, why don't you pick on eminem next time? You want to make sure your quota is correct when discussion >

But Tupac doesn't inspire his fans to violence or anything....

Funny.

"They say my music is detrimental to kids, as if they cant see the misery, in which they live, blame me for the outcome, ban my records, you dont have to bump this but please respect it"

No, she is a bitch because she went way out of line and off topic. Her comments were border-line racist in my opinion. She has no idea that Tupac never even intended for those poems to be published, and also wrote some of them as early as the age of 15! now tell me that she was not mis-leading....

People are just afraid of reality, and that is a problem with todays society. If you want to fix it, you have to confront it. People just do not want to hear that grades probably WILL go up if introduced to a topic like this. Because its REAL, its the TRUTH.
As Tupac once said somethin along these lines:

"They didnt even wanna stop the vietnam war until people saw the pictures of how horrible it really was, so i said to myself, thats what im gonna do with my lyrics, im going to paint a picture of the horrible aspects of life, and maybe THEN they will try to stop it"

People need to understand that Tupac had a good cause, he may have rapped about drug dealing, or killing, or various things similar, but he was STORYTELLING. He is teaching us, showing us what not to do. He is all for change and wants to make things better. He got into the mind of a killer, the victim, and the victims family so he could hit EVERYONES point of view. No-one really realizes how mis-understood he is, and it's really a shame.

"But Tupac doesn't inspire his fans to violence or anything....

Funny."

On purpose? No. It's all on how you take it in. Harry Potter could inspire its fans to witchcraft.Thats not its intention, but the individual can decide what to do with it.
Tupac inspired me to go to church and stay in school....so without him I probably would have wasted my life away.

I can't believe the narrow-mindedness of some of these people who agree with you view. For example, george implies that Tupac was illiterate, but little does he know the number of books Tupac has read in his life; all of Shakespeare's works, Machiavelli's works, Sun-Tzu: "The Art of War", the list goes on. In your article, you discussed the issue of Tupac's poetry containing many spelling mistakes, and that he needs to use a dictionary. I can tell u right now that you are the one who is blind in missing the entirity of the poems. How can u judge his works just because of the style of his writing. It is absolutely appalling to hear u bash Tupac in the way that u have. What about the Universities who have a specific course about Tupac's works? University of Washington for one, has a class that focuses and analyzes Mr. Shakur's works. Are you suggesting that these numbers of Universities are also bringing down their quality of learning?

The blind will always be blind.
The deaf will always be deaf.
The haters will always hate.
The ignorant will always remain ignorant.

So there's no point even talking to some of you but Makaveli lives on.

Frankly who gives a fuck if you dot you I's & cross you're T's when you're dead your dead.

If you don't like it, don't read it & take your kid to a private snob school, so he won't get his head flushed down the toilet.

I suggest the writer, whatever her name is study some of Tupac's music/poems/books & makes up her own mind about him, instead of reading the rags.

Quote = "People are just afraid of reality, and that is a problem with todays society." -Johnny_Hajduk

I would like a response from the writer as to why theres a link to the Assata Shakur story? whilst her original article was about Tupac & education.

It just don't wash, it's a hate story & the bitch knows it.

Makaveli fan, I think that is exactly what she's suggesting. I think Ms. Malkin understands what his poetry is about. I know that you rap fans think people like Malkin or Bill O'Reilly, who speak out against these things, just "don't get it" but get over it. "It" isn't very hard to understand. I'm pretty young and back when Tupac was still alive I was a preteen and I listened to his music. I've heard what he had to say and I understand what it means and luckily, I've grown up enough to know now that its a bunch of crap. His "writing style" does look like a cell phone text message. His "style" (which is basically misspelling words on purpose and using numbers to represent words...how brilliant)is already making an impression on kids. That's how kids communicate now. "Wot r u doin?" or "Ure 2 kool" That's how they spell things. Now I'm sure at least some of them aren't dumb enough yet to think they are actually spelling correctly, but its going to make a difference in their intelligence, there's no way it couldn't. He may well have been a bright, well-read man, but his music and poetry are doing nothing to stimulate these kids in an intellectual way. I know this guy who worships Tupac and he's always talking about "the message" Tupac conveys. This guy has been in prison at least once already and he's only 20 years old. Now that he's out, he spends his free time doing and selling a variety of drugs. I guess he got the message. Kids, no matter where they're from, need to have positive role models and should be encouraged to read real literature, that uses proper english. That way they can actually learn from it instead of hearing all about how "the hood is gonna keep them down".

Lindsay, that's called short-hand typing and I'm sure you realize it's been around before Tupac even released a record. He was just trying to sell records, and if the kids like that style of writing, why not? If the hippies liked denim, why not manufacture jeans? That's how I think of it. You wouldn't believe how off-topic the Assata Shakur story is, and as little as I know about it, I know that not ALL cops are heavenly people. I admit that there have been some ignorant replies, but Pac spoke to a young impressionable generation that includes myself, and it's not like teens are perfect people in the first place. I'm going to leave you with a few songs I think you should check out, a few of which gave me watery eyes on first listen, and that's deep. Also, please plug your ears when he says those dreaded curse words. Just the fact that he on average wrote and recorded an average of three of these songs per day leaving enough music for at least a decade after his death is something worthy of his mention. Also, please plug your ears when he says those dreaded curse words. Our virgin ears can't deal with that in such a beautiful society, so after hopefully checking out a song on this list, go back to the richy rich pop-music world:
Changes
Dear Mama
Unconditional Love
Keep Ya Head Up
Baby Don't Cry
Brenda's Got a Baby
Do for Love
Holler if Ya Hear Me
The Good Die Young
Happy Home
Teardrops and Closed Caskets
Thugz Mansion (any version)
I Wonder if Heaven Got a Ghetto
Mama's Just a Little Girl
Words of Wisdom
Part Time Mutha
So Many Tears
Trapped
Me Against the World
Life Goes On
Only God Can Judge Me
Wonda Why They Call You Bitch
White Man'z World
Hold Ya Head
Papa'z Song
Pour Out a Little Liqour
Until the End of Time
Letter 2 My Unborn
Ah sorry for how long the post is, I'm done. Just take a random song, please, or get at me through e-mail and I'll send it to you or something.

You really don't find this peice disrespectful? She's making fun of a 15 year old kid's inner thoughts, how would like it somebody exposed and ridiculed your early poems (if you have any). I don't know about miss perfect, but my first poems where were not like Shakespears.

And stop with this Tupac fans are "criminal" bullshit, you are trying to portray. That's speculation, not facts.

If you really cared about the inner city problems so much, maybe you should do something about it instead of just pointing fingers. Tupac talked about the problems, he didn't create them. The kids was saying "fuck" and "bitch" before Tupac got famous. So who's fault was then?

It comes to my attention that the only reason why she does this kind of stuff is to get attention. She knows that there's alot of 2pac fans out there. What's the best way to stir up controversy. It's been done a million times... Just IGNORE her.

ATTENTION = PUBLICITY = FAME

I think it says it all when a writer's skill is judged by the number of his "fans". Some of the most vacuous writing today has a very large "fan" base; think about those cheesy romance novels for sale in the supermarket. "Fans", indeed. Snort.

But the comment that I particularly enjoyed was: "How can u judge his works just because of the style of his writing." If you don't know, then you've missed the entire point of literature. I'm guessing you're a product of the contemporary public school system.

Wow what a stupid site this is! Find somebody you don't agree with and then disagree by making fun of PARTS of their statements. I thought democracy prevailed, you know the thing where both sides of every story are represented.

What is it you want? If everybody agreed with you, what would you do then? Apparently all you do is mock the people with other beliefs than your own.

Everybody can judge and throw mud at people, that’s the easiest thing in the world. It would be an accomplishment if you took the time to understand WHY people say what they say!

Most people criticize what they dont understand.

To George

Poetry is for everyone, not just people with good writing skills. Maybe it's what was said, not how it was said.

And I am the product of the public school system, but that doesn't give you the right to talk down to me or anybody else in my situation. Everybody wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

I can't believe this article on Tupac Shakur. It's like a fairy tale story, the facts are hard 2 find in this article. If you write things about Tupacs sex case conviction and the black panther part, you've got 2 print the facts. Who are you (Michelle Malkin) 2 state your opinion on someone who has done so much for the world. If you only print one side of the whole story it's easy to talk that man down but that's harder 2 do if you use facts 2 go with your story. Before this article I never heard about Michelle Malkin (like many other people) so I guess she's using Tupacs name and fame 2 get famous herself. But who am I 2 judge her without knowing the facts??!

how are you gonna tear apart tupac on how bad he is when all you do is write about other people because your life sucks.For the people who dont listen dont know or dont care about tupac then dont comment on him because if you hear one song you would see how much meaning he puts into them you might not like them because you were never exposed to that type of envirement but dont sit there and type all shit on pac when you dunno shit about him. he stood up for what he believed in was the GREATEST rapper of all time talked about real issues and influenced and touched millions of people.You should be ashamed of depicting tupac for being himself and making somthing of his life if you would like to insult someone who has passed on go ahead you just sound ignorant and DUMB for talking about shit you dont know.

must...feed...trolls...i mean cult followers

just remember, class, it's OK to hate whites, asians, and jews

so michelle points out that tupac isn't the best author to give kids when you're trying to teach BASIC ENGLISH skills

and for this she gets called a racist asian bitch (ha! racism AND misogyny, is this what tupac teaches you?) and is basically threatened ("Michelle will be sorry..." -BlackJesuzLivesOn; along with the warning "He has THOUSANDS of people that would...kill for him" -Makaveli's Disciple)

those of you claiming that tupac led you to religion...what religion? the religion that has tupac for a god? maybe tupac had a positive influence on some of you, but for a lot of people he has apparently become an idol (as in a false god)

are you going to let tupac inspire you and others to hate and threaten another person just because they "dissed" your idol? show michelle how much tupac has positiveLY influenced you as a person, not how much he has turned you into an "enlightened" cult

This is amazing.

Michelle criticizes using 2Pac's poetry as a school reading assignment because it will not teach proper english usage and all of you folks show up and prove her point.

None of you will ever get a job and be successful if you can not write properly. Using proper grammar is essential in almost any business. Even in the record business. I am confident that 2Pac spoke perfect English when negotiating contracts. Legal documents do not look like text messaging.

2Pac was not being dishonest, he was entertainment and social commentary. That is VERY different from what YOU will be doing with YOUR life. Learning how to properly speak and write is not fun, but it is necessary for you to be successful.

If your school is not teaching you this, they are ripping you off and you will live an awful life because of it. I think that is why Michelle was unhappy about the reading list, not because she dislikes 2Pac necessarily.

Now go play in the traffic you crazy kids.

In the Event of My Demise

In the event of my Demise
when my heart can beat no more
I Hope I Die For A Principle
or A Belief that I had Lived 4
I will die Before My Time
Because I feel the shadow's Depth
so much I wanted 2 accomplish
before I reached my Death

I have come 2 grips with the possibility
and wiped the last tear from My eyes
I Loved All who were Positive
In the event of my Demise

How could you not see that this is a great way of getting kids interested in poetry? 2pac was and is an icon whether you believe it ot not and when kids see that he had such a profound way of expressing himself and was a great poet it means more to them than some stone-age poet.

On a side note, I find that you have a horrible personality sptting on someone's grave like that!!

I'm letting the man speak for himself:

I dare you all to read it, if you won't please keep your opinions to yourself because then they're all very ignorant, but I guess ignorance is a bliss and spitting on people's graves is so much easier.

"Dear Mama"

You are appreciated

[Verse One: 2Pac]

When I was young me and my mama had beef
Seventeen years old kicked out on the streets
Though back at the time, I never thought I'd see her face
Ain't a woman alive that could take my mama's place
Suspended from school; and scared to go home, I was a fool
with the big boys, breakin all the rules
I shed tears with my baby sister
Over the years we was poorer than the other little kids
And even though we had different daddy's, the same drama
When things went wrong we'd blame mama
I reminice on the stress I caused, it was hell
Huggin on my mama from a jail cell
And who'd think in elementary?
Heeey! I see the penitentiary, one day
And runnin from the police, that's right
Mama catch me, put a whoopin to my backside
And even as a crack fiend, mama
You always was a black queen, mama
I finally understand
for a woman it ain't easy tryin to raise a man
You always was committed
A poor single mother on welfare, tell me how ya did it
There's no way I can pay you back
But the plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

[Chorus: Reggie Green & "Sweet Franklin" w/ 2Pac]

Lady...
Don't cha know we love ya? Sweet lady
Dear mama
Place no one above ya, sweet lady
You are appreciated
Don't cha know we love ya?

[second and third chorus, "And dear mama" instead of "Dear mama"]

[Verse Two: 2Pac]

Now ain't nobody tell us it was fair
No love from my daddy cause the coward wasn't there
He passed away and I didn't cry, cause my anger
wouldn't let me feel for a stranger
They say I'm wrong and I'm heartless, but all along
I was lookin for a father he was gone
I hung around with the Thugs, and even though they sold drugs
They showed a young brother love
I moved out and started really hangin
I needed money of my own so I started slangin
I ain't guilty cause, even though I sell rocks
It feels good puttin money in your mailbox
I love payin rent when the rent's due
I hope ya got the diamond necklace that I sent to you
Cause when I was low you was there for me
And never left me alone because you cared for me
And I could see you comin home after work late
You're in the kitchen tryin to fix us a hot plate
Ya just workin with the scraps you was given
And mama made miracles every Thanksgivin
But now the road got rough, you're alone
You're tryin to raise two bad kids on your own
And there's no way I can pay you back
But my plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

[Chorus]

[Verse Three: 2Pac]

Pour out some liquor and I reminsce, cause through the drama
I can always depend on my mama
And when it seems that I'm hopeless
You say the words that can get me back in focus
When I was sick as a little kid
To keep me happy there's no limit to the things you did
And all my childhood memories
Are full of all the sweet things you did for me
And even though I act craaazy
I gotta thank the Lord that you made me
There are no words that can express how I feel
You never kept a secret, always stayed real
And I appreciate, how you raised me
And all the extra love that you gave me
I wish I could take the pain away
If you can make it through the night there's a brighter day
Everything will be alright if ya hold on
It's a struggle everyday, gotta roll on
And there's no way I can pay you back
But my plan is to show you that I understand
You are appreciated

[Chorus]

Sweet lady
And dear mama

Dear mama
Lady [3X]

"Brenda's Got A Baby"!!

Brenda's got a Baby
Brenda's got a Baby

I hear Brenda's got a baby
But, Brenda's barely got a brain
A damn shame
Tha girl can hardly spell her name
(That's not our problem, that's up ta Brenda's family)
Well let me show ya how it affects tha whole community
Now Brenda never really knew her moms and her dad was a
junky
Went in debt to his arms, it's sad
Cause I bet Brenda doesn't even know
Just cause your in tha ghetto doesn't mean ya can't grow
But oh, that's a thought, my own revelation
Do whatever it takes ta resist tha temptation
Brenda got herself a boyfriend
Her boyfriend was her cousin, now lets watch tha joy end
She tried to hide her pregnancy, from her family
Who didn't really care to see, or give a damn if she
Went out and had a church of kids
As long as when tha check came they got first dibs
Now Brendas belly is gettin bigger
But no one seems ta notice any change in her figure
She's 12 years old and she's having a baby
In love with tha molester, whos sexin her crazy
And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever
And dreams of a world with tha two of them are together,
whatever
He left her and she had tha baby solo, she had it on tha
bathroom floor
And didn't know so, she didn't know, what ta throw away and
what ta keep
She wrapped tha baby up and threw him in tha trash heep
I guess she thought she'd get away
Wouldn't hear tha cries
She didn't realize
How much tha tha little baby had her eyes
Now tha babys in tha trash heep balling
Momma can't help her, but it hurts ta hear her calling
Brenda wants ta run away
Momma say, you makin' me lose pay, tha social workers here
everyday
Now Brenda's gotta make her own way
Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay
No money no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job
She tried ta sell crack, but end up getting robbed
So now what's next, there ain't nothin left ta sell
So she sees sex as a way of leavin hell
It's payin tha rent, so she really can't complain
Prostitute, found slain, and Brenda's her name, she's got a baby

Changes!!

Come on come on
I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself
is life worth living should I blast myself?
I'm tired of bein' poor & even worse I'm black
my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero
Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares
one less hungry mouth on the welfare
First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers
give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other
It's time to fight back that's what Huey said
2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead
I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere
unless we share with each other
We gotta start makin' changes
learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers
and that's how it's supposed to be
How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?
I'd love to go back to when we played as kids
but things changed, and that's the way it is

[Bridge w/ changing ad libs]
Come on come on
That's just the way it is
Things'll never be the same
That's just the way it is
aww yeah
[Repeat]

[2]
I see no changes all I see is racist faces
misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under I wonder what it takes to make this
one better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
and only time we chill is when we kill each other
it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other
And although it seems heaven sent
We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh
It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact
the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game
Now tell me what's a mother to do
bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way
sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"
Well hey, well that's the way it is

[Bridge]

[Talking:]
We gotta make a change...
It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
and let's change the way we treat each other.
You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do
what we gotta do, to survive.

[3]
And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you
Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,
crack you up and pimp slap you up
You gotta learn to hold ya own
they get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone
But tell the cops they can't touch this
I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this
That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool
my mama didn't raise no fool
And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped
& I never get to lay back
'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs
some buck that I roughed up way back
comin' back after all these years
rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

Keep ya head up!!

Little somethin for my godson Elijah and a little girl named
Corinne

[Verse One:]

Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice
I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots
I give a holler to my sisters on welfare
Tupac cares, and don't nobody else care
And uhh, I know they like to beat ya down a lot
When you come around the block brothas clown a lot
But please don't cry, dry your eyes, never let up
Forgive but don't forget, girl keep your head up
And when he tells you you ain't nuttin don't believe him
And if he can't learn to love you you should leave him
Cause sista you don't need him
And I ain't tryin to gas ya up, I just call em how I see em
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

[Chorus]

Keep ya head up, oooo child things are gonna get easier
ooooo child things are gonna get brighter [2x]

[Verse Two:]

Aiyyo, I remember Marvin Gaye, used to sing ta me
He had me feelin like black was tha thing to be
And suddenly tha ghetto didn't seem so tough
And though we had it rough, we always had enough
I huffed and puffed about my curfew and broke the rules
Ran with the local crew, and had a smoke or two
And I realize momma really paid the price
She nearly gave her life, to raise me right
And all I had ta give her was my pipe dream
Of how I'd rock the mic, and make it to tha bright screen
I'm tryin to make a dollar out of fifteen cents
It's hard to be legit and still pay tha rent
And in the end it seems I'm headin for tha pen
I try and find my friends, but they're blowin in the wind
Last night my buddy lost his whole family
It's gonna take the man in me to conquer this insanity
It seems tha rain'll never let up
I try to keep my head up, and still keep from gettin wet up
You know it's funny when it rains it pours
They got money for wars, but can't feed the poor
Say there ain't no hope for the youth and the truth is
it ain't no hope for tha future
And then they wonder why we crazy
I blame my mother, for turning my brother into a crack baby
We ain't meant to survive, cause it's a setup
And even though you're fed up
Huh, ya got to keep your head up

[Chorus]

[Verse Three:]

And uhh
To all the ladies havin babies on they own
I know it's kinda rough and you're feelin all alone
Daddy's long gone and he left you by ya lonesome
Thank the Lord for my kids, even if nobody else want em
Cause I think we can make it, in fact, I'm sure
And if you fall, stand tall and comeback for more
Cause ain't nuttin worse than when your son
wants to kno why his daddy don't love him no mo'
You can't complain you was dealt this
hell of a hand without a man, feelin helpless
Because there's too many things for you to deal with
Dying inside, but outside you're looking fearless
While tears, is rollin down your cheeks
Ya steady hopin things don't all down this week
Cause if it did, you couldn't take it, and don't blame me
I was given this world I didn't make it
And now my son's getten older and older and cold
From havin the world on his shoulders
While the rich kids is drivin Benz
I'm still tryin to hold on to my survivin friends
And it's crazy, it seems it'll never let up, but
please... you got to keep your head up

When your heart turns cold!!

When your heart turns cold
it causes your soul 2 freeze
It spreads throughout your spirit
like a ruthless feeling disease
The walls that once were down
now stand firm and tall
Safe from hate/love, pain/joy
until u feel nothing at all
When ure heart turns cold
a baby's cry means nothing
A dead corpse is trivial
Mothers neglecting children is daily
Loneliness becomes your routine friend
Death seems like tranquility
Sleeping is never pleasant
if u even sleep at all
u forget ideals and turn off the reason
2 make sure the product gets sold
You don't understand how I behave
Just wait till your heart turns Cold!

May I also not that Tupac's poetry was written when he was 16/17 years old.

May I also not that Tupac's poetry was written when he was 16/17 years old.

Marten de Vries, it's not about "poetry" it's about teaching kids basic english skills

"On a side note, I find that you have a horrible personality sptting on someone's grave like that!!"

tupac forbid we actually try to teach kids how to read, write, and spell correctly!

it's you and people like you that will keep minorities "oppressed" by refusing to recognize the importance of quality work as opposed to emotional or emotive work and by encouraging the victim mentality

you say tupac is such a great motivator? motivation to what? all you cult followers are showing here is blind devotion, finger pointing, and hate - no education, no refinement, no logical arguments...only anger and hate

i see alot of ignorant comments in here by people who have never stepped foot in the ghetto.

why do you think tupacs poetry will affect the way we spell, its the words that affect us kids and make us want to learn more. i sit in class all day and read shakespeare and leave home not giving a fuck what he said. but when i hear a song by 2pac that has a positive point it makes me look at what i'm trying to pursue with my life and i strive harder to exceed in school.

jeff:

I see alot of ignorance by people who have never held a job. And sadly, if you, and they, do not learn much better communication skills, you may never hold a real job.

THAT is real and you are worried about music lyrics? Please try and support a family without adequate job skills.

We show anger and hate? You are the ones calling us ignorent and what not!

Most Tupac fans are kids, we're between 14-20 years old. This is not a cult, how did u come to that conclusion?

And for the spelling and grammar, I'm not from an english-speaking country. Tupac have fans all around the world

I'm a 22-year-old black female. If I recall correctly, I was almost 15 when 2Pac died. So I'm right in the age bracket of the audience 'Pac was speaking to.

That being said, if one more person says that 2Pac was the voice of my generation, I'm going to shoot him/her. I don't want anyone that ignorant and that mysogynistic speaking on my behalf, thank you. People will defend 'Pac faster and more passionately than they will defend (pick a deity). And why? The man was an entertainer - and a rather hypocritical one at that. C'mon, Mr. Shakur. Are we hoes or are we queens? Are you America's most wanted or just a man trying to make a dollar out of blahblahblahshutthehellup?

The man was not a prophet. "But Jenn! He predicted his own death!" Hello, aren't we all going to die? Annie sang that the sun will come out tomorrow - is she a psychic?

When I was in school, we didn't get to read "fun" stuff like 2Pac. We read boring, dead authors whose works - whether I liked them or not - stood the test of time. No one cared if we enjoyed it or not. And we survived. The younger generation will, too. They need to learn that the world isn't going to cater to their spoiled-ass needs.

2Pac fans are fast to write anyone who doesn't love their Jesus as folks who "don't get it" or "aren't from the hood" or this, that and they other. If they don't want to be written off as illiterate, non-spelling idiots, perhaps they should learn to respect and accept the views of others.

By the way, I'm a serious fan of rap music...just not of 2Pac. I hope people can get over that. If they don't, the sun'll come out tomorrow. Wow, there I go predicting the future again...

michelle, you make me laugh by hooking that article about someone else shooting cops acting like tupac told her to shoot them LOL

she has nothing to do with tupac.

your just trying to make him look worse by focusing on his bad points.

im sure you have your bad points in your life, maybe you got teased as a child or fucked the whole football team in college.

everybody has a bad side.

why did you not point out the good side of 2pac.

you are very sad, really i feel sorry for you trying so hard to be like bill o'reilly

to jenn, everybody is a hypocrite. you are, your mom is, i am, nobody is perfect.

Jenn:

I think I'm in love...

...kidding.

I can tell that you got a great education.

Regards,

Jenn:

Are men always wonderfull, no of course not. That's real life, you don't feel exactly the same everyday!

I don't think Tupac is Jesus, I'm a fan of his. So of course I will get angry when people disrespect him. Who are you a fan of? Let's see how you like it if we make fun of a person you admire.

Mr. Who...certainly, we're all hypocrites. The difference is, I don't make any money exploiting my hypocritical beliefs. I also try my best not to push them on young, impressionable minds. And if, by chance, some young kid IS impressed by my hypocritical thoughts and wants to follow in my footsteps, s/he needs to be shot. Why? Because s/he's obviously a weak-minded waste of space.

Oh, let me guess. I'm jealous, right? See, I know every trick in the ghetto bag - in fact, I know them in order. Jealousy's next, followed by stupidity, with ugly coming up in the rear.

note to self:

Do not piss Jenn off...

Got it.

:: slinks away from the website

Shocked, I'm a huge Janet Jackson fan. You don't really think I'm going to jump on you for making fun of Janet, do you? I could care less. I'm a grown-ass woman, and so is she. She doesn't need me defending her honor. It doesn't make me any less of a fan to let other people have their opinions. For the record, I thought 2Pac was a decent rapper, a great actor and was very attractive. But a prophet and a genius? Please.

Let's ask 2Pac what he thinks about his fans saying things like "He has THOUSANDS of people that would...kill for him" and calling Michelle here all kinds of sickening racist slurs. I'm sure he'd LOVE that people are acting like total JACKASSES in his honor.

Oh, crap. We can't ask 2Pac. Because 'Pac's dead, isn't me? Killed by the very life he so proudly lived by, the last time I checked.

"See, I know every trick in the ghetto bag - in fact, I know them in order. Jealousy's next, followed by stupidity, with ugly coming up in the rear."

Sorry, I forgot SLUT, followed immediately by DYKE. Maybe I'm a dyke slut? Who knows? ;)

jenn:

whats does making money off opinions have to do with this. nothing.

and fans aren't trying to follow his footsteps, we are just taking his words and realizing what we can do to change in a psoitive way.

and if kids looked up to me and wanted to be like me i wouldn't wish death upon them as you do.

if someone wants to be like you then you want them shot, what kind of shit is that. LOL

and i laughed at you thinking you know the tricks in the "ghetto bag".

please

Jenn

So basicly you don't like Tupac "exploitting" being hypocrite, but Janet J can show her breast on national tv right before her album drops?

You don't know anything about Pac, but yet you conclude a whole lot of things about the man. It has nothing to do with whether or not he was a decent rapper. It's you saying he was fake, which you know nothing about.

Hey Mahatma I'm I educated too?

i don't even know what your talking about now.

calling yourself a slut and a dyke.

am i lost or is this about 2pac in schools and not you.

I read your article and I attempted to be as open-minded as possible. I tried to view things from your persepctive. I tried to make you into a reasonable human being. All attempts failed. It never ceases to amaze me how people will take a snapshot from someone's life and hold it as representive of their total person. Tupac said it best, "Measure a man by his whole life, by his actions fully." Judging by your comments (i.e. cop-hating, Black Panther worshipping, convicted sexual abuser) this is exactly what you have done. Regarding his "cop-hating," he was reflecting the attitudes and feelings of many young African-American males in the United States. As a African-American male I can tell you that there are police that do harrass young African-American youth, and that is part of why there are hated in some communities.

It is funny to me how the Black Panthers are so often demonized. When the colonies fought Britain for their independence, they were considered revolutionaries. We assign the term "freedom fighters" to most groups that unite to incure social change, but for some reason it is a negative thing to admire the Black Panthers who engaged in the same cause. As far as the sexual abuse charge goes, any woman can level those charges against any man at random with no proof at all. There was NO physical evidence. It was her word against his and unfortunately in our legal system a seemingly distraught woman can elevate above common sense. Furthermore, lifestyle has never kept us from reading any of literatures more...distinguished authors. Langston Hughes was a communist, but his work is included in almost every literature textbook.

To be honest, I agree with you. His poems were somewhat elementary, but do you expect from a 16 year-old. I think that Shakespeare should continue to be a mainstay in our schools. Tupac himself was a admirer of Shakespeare and known to quote ten minute Shakespearean soliloquies. I do not think that there is anything wrong with allowing children to read someone who they may actually like. This does not mean that you discard the classics or the luminaries of literature. I am sure that Tupac's was not the only book on the entire reading list. One of the reasons that most children neglect to read is that they do not find it enjoyable. If you can make it enjoyable, then perhaps they will want to read more often.

As an educator, I agree that there is a tendency to "dumb-down" inner city education. I also agree that there is penchant toward "latent racism." However, I do not think that this is an example of that.

The truth is that with any artform the value lies within the heart of the beholder. There is no legitimate explanation on why a Picasso is better than a stickman drawn by a 3 year old. Art is interpretation. You may not think that Mr. Shakur is deserving of a slot on a summer reading list and that is perfectly fine. How many will read your columns eight years after you have passed on? How many summer reading list will your book appear on after you have transecended?

mr. who - you're "lost"? Wouldn't expect anything less.

Moving on. Shocked, pardon the shortness, but your posts tend to make my eyes bleed.

"So basicly you don't like Tupac "exploitting" being hypocrite, but Janet J can show her breast on national tv right before her album drops?"

Can you show me where I said that Janet did was okay? You can't? Good, just checking.

"You don't know anything about Pac..."

If that's what you want to believe, by all means.

You know what I like? How every time a 2Pac fan posts, Michelle's point is further proven. Johnny can't read or write for shit, but wants to bitch at me for an opinion that I don't even hold. Go figure.

I can't stand all the BS the Tupac-haters are writing here. Tupac isn't my idol and I don't look up to him at all. I just think he was a remarkable man who did a lot for (black)people. He is the reason that a lot of young people start reading. He changes/changed the image that reading is for nerds only. His favorite music was music from "les miserables"!! COME ON! That has nothing to do with being a gangster!! I even like poetry now and that's all because of Tupac. Tupac only used rap to get his message to the whole world and he did a great job. All those people criticising him for the use of language have to understand that this world isn't like disney world.

Jenn, i just wanna fuck you all night long.

lets forget about these kids and meet up somewhere you sexy bitch.

the bottom line is all you tupac fans are wrong and i'm right.

michelle and I are perfect and we are the smartest people here.

Jenn your so full of shit!

You don't make any sense at all haha! Atleast give some valid points, god damn.

There's one more thing that irritates me. There are a lot of people posting on this topic while not knowing anything about Tupac. Have you read "Holler if you hear me"? Did you watch "Tupac Ressurection" or "Thug Angel" or at least one of the many interviews he did? We can talk about all of this later. Get to know the facts first!

i know, why don't you prove your points jenn instead of saying you are right.

so now we are dumb?

Man, for a second a thought his was a serius site! But this is some scary shit, what the hell is this? Some kind of sex club or something?

Shocked...the next time you call that hotline, make sure they send you Hooked on PHONICS, not Hooked on CHRONIC. I can't take anyone seriously who can't distinguish the difference between "you're" and "your". Before you start copying 2Pac lyrics for the 30th time, copy down a page out of a grammar book.

I am having a blast making fun of you over at Grammar_Snobs, though. Thanks for the giggles, kid. Cheers :)

Too easy, Drill Sergeant - too easy....

"Have you read "Holler if you hear me"? Did you watch "Tupac Ressurection" or "Thug Angel" or at least one of the many interviews he did?"

If we did, will the Pac freaks finally admit that not all "Pac haters" are over 30, white, upper class and basically clueless? Just curious. Hell, I deserve a Nobel Peace Prize just for plowing through the dreck that was "Inside a Thug's Heart".

"the bottom line is all you tupac fans are wrong and i'm right.

michelle and I are perfect and we are the smartest people here."

High-sterical! Man, I've got fans imitating me already. I LOVE it. Especially that fake hotmail address. Some poor woman is going to get blasted, though...that sucks.

Actually we don't speak english where I live, that might explain it!

But you can ridicule my spelling anytime, that doesn't bother me! If that's all you can come up with, you went from Tupac, to his fans, to our spelling! You seem like somebody who could use a hug!

What a bunch of immature morons. I step out for a second and some little shit uses my name to post.

What an idiot.

every poet you all named were all dope heads opium cocaine and probably anything else they could get their hands on and for michelle malkin while you're kissing butt about edgar allen poe run this through your small mind if any "great poet" that u named could read your work do u think they would give a damn about u or what u have 2 say? you'd be another animal with too much color in her skin stop bashing a great icon to people who live totally different than you therefore have a totally different mindset and outlook on the world than you if u don't agree that is perfectly fine but why all the hate i'm sure u know what cops polititans and just about all people in power or have the mental illusion that they are better(who are usually white) feel about tupac and anyone who looks or carries himself in the same manner beacause from your peice i know u feel the same and to you i have to say we are not beasts we are not less human or worth any less than you if we appear racist it is only a reaction to the dirty things that people in power did and do to us my family tree goes back to slaves and there are still mental scars that have been passed down generations it has been passed down not to trust athautity figures(cops) because they abuse us the same with whites because they are evil they burned crosses raped my people bashed our heads in and tried to kill our spirit because we were different and the do the same now some in same ways others different and some just hidden and u don't like it because my reaction and pac's reaction was f**k the police f**k the politions and f**k u too if u don't understand? well i don't care we(people like me)don't care! and if u didn't like this message think you are better than me or in a position to critique my spelling lack of punctuation use of language where i'm coming from or the meaning behind this message then f**k you too pac's a racist? well me too and proud of it because people who feel the way u feel planted the seed that make me do some of the things i do sa some of the things i say and feel the way i do about you so f**k you and i wouldn't mind saying it to your faces i'm not a coward like you who talk crazy on the internet never to say how u feel to our faces with out slave chains handcuffs police dogs billy clubs or jail cells f**k you!!!

Ah Shocked, I think the point is that not reading proper literature is going to lead to poor grammar and spelling. You not using proper grammar and spelling is kind of the point.

you say tupac is such a great motivator? motivation to what? all you cult followers are showing here is blind devotion, finger pointing, and hate - no education, no refinement, no logical arguments...only anger and hate

I'm a college graduate in lawschool....what?!?!

again, judging books by it's cover??

never ever post stuff but after reading Ms. Malkin's article I felt compelled to respond and post up my response.

Dear Ms. Malkin

I recently read your article about Tupac Shakur's poetry being read in schools. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect yours but I disagree with it very strongly. As a 21 year old black male, I can easily relate to Tupac's music and messages. I find it very reality based and emotionally gripping. In your article you brought up numerous opinions and problems you have with Shakur's work but I feel as though you were unfair in presenting only one side of him in your writing.
One of the things you complained about in your article is that Shakur's poems used images (an eyeball instead of I) in the place of words. You seem to be offended by the notion that Shakur's poetry which uses a lot of slang and abbreviations is being read in schools. I believe you referred to it as "dumbed down ghetto entertainment". I read a lot of poetry. Poetry is a reflection of it's writer's thoughts and views. The fact that he purposely used slang, or symbols to express himself should not take away from the artistic value of his work. That's his style and one of the things that makes poets great is their own individual style no matter how unorthodox it is.

The poems you are referring to in your piece were written by him at a very young age and were never intended to be released to the public. How well would your earliest work stand up to intense literary criticism? Do you have works that you have written that you don't plan to release? What do you think people would say about those works and you as a writer if those early writings of yours were leaked. As a young writer, and the son of a Pulitzer Prize winner (Leonard Pitts Jr) I know that it takes practice to become good at writing, no matter how naturally talented you are. the work you criticized was nothing more than shakur at practice.

But even at practice his words hold meaning to an entire generation of young, disenfranchised minority males. I think that the reason you dislike his work so much is because you could never relate. To be blunt, he's not talking to you. Poems like "The Rose That Grew From Concrete" offers hope to the millions who read it in the US and over seas because It speaks about growing through adversity and still managing to prosper. If you can understand what he's saying, many (far from all) of his poems are powerful and I personally find them moving because I know what he's talking about. I fail to see how work such as his, which highlights the struggles of young black males, could be called crap.

In school we're taught about men like Christopher Columbus who invaded an occupied land, claimed to have discovered a land that was already found, stole from it's people, and initiated the mass murder of Native Americans. We still learn and read about him. In schools we read poems by men like Edgar Allen Poe who married his cousin, had a serious drinking problem, and was known for his volatile temper. We still read about him and his work. Why is okay to read about these type of men and study their works but putting revelant social commentary by Tupac in schools is wrong? Having a criminal record (or being a thug) doesn't unqualify you as a writer worth studying. Mumia Abu-Jamal is currently in prison and his poetry is quite beautiful. It is without question worth studying.Yes Tupac sold drugs, and yes he was a self admitted thug but he was a talent that many youth identify with because he was far from perfect. He was one of us.

It's no secret that many inner city children don't like to read. The school systems putting Tupac in classrooms are doing something very smart. If a kid sees Tupac on the book the kid is going to read it. You can't start everyone off with Shakespeare, Carl Sandburg, Ogden Nash, or something like T.S Eliot. If that kid reads one book that they enjoy then they're more likely to move on to another book. Moving on to another book could establish a lifelong pattern and before long they might have more of an interest in reading other types of literature. But it all starts with that first book. Thanks to Tupac thousands if not millions went out to read books like THE ART OF WAR or THE PRINCE by Niccolo Machiavelli. People went and read these books because the same writing you labeled as crap is littered with references and allusions to great literary masterpieces. Learning is at it's easiest when it's fun and that's what schools are doing. That's why there are high-schools and even college courses on Tupac's writing.

In your article you speak rather sarcastically about comic books and romance novels. I was never into the romance novels but comic books are actually a brilliant way to improve reading, story telling, and characterization. I read very well and I can write pretty damn good if I do say so myself. I learned how to read by reading comics. My father who, as I mentioned earlier, is this years Pulitzer Prize winner (Leonard Pitts Jr. of the Miami herald) also grew up on comics and still reads them. You shouldn't speak down on a entertainment medium you don't seem to know much about. The average comic reader is 20 years old. Many comics are written on a college reading level. I suggest you take a look a writers like Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Frank Miller, and Mark Waid. Their work is sheer genius. (read: Phoenix Saga)

In hip hop anyone who uses profanity, speaks about life's hardships, and/or raps about any violence is labeled a "gangsta rapper". Why is it okay in our culture for characters in movies to curse, and be extremely violent but when a rapper speaks about the same things he's a gangsta, his music has no place in our society, his record needs to be banned, etc. When James Cameron or Steven Spielburg film movies depicting limbs being blown off and Joe Pesci does multiple shootings it's entertainment. They win an award. When rappers depict some of the same themes there is a double standard and that's not fair.

Tupac may have had some very violent lyrics and I'll admit he most definitely was not a role model. Yes, he hated cops but with good reason. Look at how these crooked, corrupt cops beat, wrongfully persecute, and kill young black males. I can relate to Tupac. In the last month I've been pulled over for "fitting a description" eight times. Yes Tupac worshiped the black panthers. I can relate because I have great admiration and respect for any black males trying to make things better for the future of their people, which the panthers attempted to do before our goverment waged war on them.

In conclusion I feel that you have not studied your subject very well and focused purely on your biased view of man you didn't know or understand. Writing like the type heard on "DEAR MOMMA," "WHITE MAN'S WORLD", and "WHO DO YOU BELIEVE IN?" are poetry at it's best. What you call "shallow ramblings by a celebrity thug" I call introspective poetry that is way over your head. But that's just my opinion.

"every poet you all named were all dope heads opium cocaine and probably anything else they could get their hands on"

Kid's got a good point there.

"whites...are evil they burned crosses raped my people bashed our heads in and tried to kill our spirit because we were different and the do the same now some in same ways..."

Oh, really now? All of them? All of the white people? You learn something new each and every day.

"if u didn't like this message think you are better than me or in a position to critique my spelling lack of punctuation use of language where i'm coming from or the meaning behind this message then f**k you too"

Hey, I could use a good fucking, myself...

i am a college graduate.

and all i see is Jenn responding with no valid points.

somebody will post a comment and Jenn just uses grammar as a scapegoat to not respond in a mature way.

Mahatma, Sweeeetyy, I'm still not from an english-speaking country. But after listening to Tupac my english has improved, so I can understand your mistake!

lito:

When the point is whether a particular book is appropriate reading, grammar used by the respondants is kind of on topic.

Jenn:

You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That's 'bad' environment for all you Tupac fans)

Lito - hey, I'm a law school graduate, magma cum laude. And...okay, I'm lying. You may be, too. You may not. You being a college graduate has no merit here.

Topic: I don't have to "make a valid point". I don't have to read any two-bit post that doesn't have even a vague resemblance to English. Why? Because the real world doesn't. If you present your points in a halfway intelligent manner (such as YoungSkitzo, who was able to make his case without insulting anyone or threatening violence), they'll probably get read, if not responded to. Comments like 2PAC RULZ N UR STUPID YAY!!!!111111 just get glanced over, quoted and laughed at. That's just me, but you brought me up, so...

Is it fair? Of course it's not. Welcome to life.

"In school we're taught about men like Christopher Columbus who invaded an occupied land, claimed to have discovered a land that was already found, stole from it's people, and initiated the mass murder of Native Americans. We still learn and read about him. In schools we read poems by men like Edgar Allen Poe who married his cousin, had a serious drinking problem, and was known for his volatile temper. We still read about him and his work. Why is okay to read about these type of men and study their works but putting revelant social commentary by Tupac in schools is wrong? Having a criminal record (or being a thug) doesn't unqualify you as a writer worth studying. Mumia Abu-Jamal is currently in prison and his poetry is quite beautiful. It is without question worth studying.Yes Tupac sold drugs, and yes he was a self admitted thug but he was a talent that many youth identify with because he was far from perfect. He was one of us."

you said it pefect right here. and also with your whole post.

"That Tupac fan, with his poor grammar and spelling, proves that there needs to be more Shakespeare in the classroom"

im a student i have just finished reading romeo and juliet and i could see why todays kids would not like to read shakespeare because of the old english used in his books. kids today dont understand that kind of stuff and they need something to relate to thats where tupac comes in.he opens the door for kids like myself to want to read more i have started reading the
"art of war" by sun tzu beacuse of the influence it had on tupac

"Instead of suggesting students read the violent, obscenity-laced Tupac "poetry", parents and teachers may try another music icon...BOB DYLAN...his lyrics are filled with words that should have kids looking in the dictionary, rather than trying to decipher some sort of obscure "code" like that in the Tupac book...and when you read and hear Dylan's lyrics, it is truly poetry..."

can i ask you a question? did you even read the book? or are you assumeing?
have you ever listend to his music he too has "kids looking in the dictionary"."and when you read and hear Dylan's lyrics, it is truly poetry..." yes lets let the kids read every body wants to get stoned wow thats profound instead of critizizeingand assumeing listen to songs for yourslef like "brendas got a baby" "keep ya head up" "Me Against the World" "Dear mama" & "Changes"

"You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That's 'bad' environment for all you Tupac fans)"

Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^

Shocked may I recommend that you explore other sources for learning the language. Last I checked the only places in this country that speak like Tupac wrote are not the best place to learn conversational English.

Of course that could depend on what you want to use the language for. Communicating with some of the poseurs who have posted here might require some dumbed down language skills.

Mahatma - it's not that I'm trying to "teach" anything. You can't "teach" those who don't want to be "taught" - hell, I know that. Some people bask in their own ignorance, saying things like, "Well, this is just the way I talk/write/act, and if you can't accept that, then there's something wrong with you!" Right. Gotcha.

The point really isn't 2Pac. Believe me, I'd be just as pissed off if they were trying to read Poems by Britney Spears in school. My POINT is that there's no REASON to teach 2Pac in school, as he was not a literary author. I don't care if kids are bored in school. Do it the way they did it in my day - you read what was assigned to you, or your ass FAILED.

"But Jenn! Then we'll have scores of inner-city kids failing out of school!"

So? That's the choice they're making, yes? Then let them deal with the consequences. It happens. Welcome to the REAL WORLD, where no one gives a damn about you or what you think.

"Comments like 2PAC RULZ N UR STUPID YAY!!!!111111 just get glanced over, quoted and laughed at."

aren't you the one who said you and michelle were the smatest people here?

that seems like the same thing.

and nobody really cares if your in law school. im in college too, who really cares?

"The man was not a prophet. "But Jenn! He predicted his own death!" Hello, aren't we all going to die? Annie sang that the sun will come out tomorrow - is she a psychic? "

-Does everybody know how many times they will get shot? The state they will die in? How many witnessed there will be? Will they talk about events that happened after their death? Well, hmmm Tupac did. And you don't think the man is a genius? Well i'd hate to break it to you baby but Tupac was on a whole new level which people like you cannot understand. You hear the words that come out of his mouth, but not the hidden message located in his songs. No, im not talking about him story-telling or any shit like that, its deeper than that, something that the naked eye cannot see. Do not be mad because a rapper made it out of nothing, a rapper who only owned 1 pair of jeans and had to go nights without food, a rapper used no grammer or any shit like that, but still managed to make more money that probably all of you haters here. And like it was said, the reason you might see bad grammer from some of the fans, English is not even their first language! Tupac has fans across the whole world, unlike being a NOBODY like you.

"By the way, I'm a serious fan of rap music...just not of 2Pac. "

-haha, the funniest thing you said yet. and who would you suggest is better? the "Birdman"? hmmmm, what about "LIL JON"?
Would you rather the kids be reading about "pimp juice"?

Is that why every single rapper gives it up to tupac and admits he was the greatest?

Is that why he has fans from all types of music genres and diffrent countries?

Nawwww, you'd rather be watching an episode on MTV cribs where the "CASH MONEY MILLIONAIRES" are flaunting their 30 cars. But Tupac would rather give, so fuck him.

I understand that the atricle was about reading his poetry in school, but it's obvious that she took this way too far, and now she is even bringing assata shaur in the picture? now tell me what is the point of that?

Ah, that "literary author" thing was a typo. Sorry. I suppose anyone who publishes a book becomes a literary author. Anyway, topic.

"Having a criminal record (or being a thug) doesn't unqualify you as a writer worth studying."

I totally agree with this. And as soon as we can find where Michelle said this, we'll really be rolling!

Oh, wait...

Did I miss the MICHELLE UR A RASIZT!!!!111111 boat? Or is that coming next?

if the school wants to teach it then let'em. why the fuck do you care?

its not like it'll make class more boring.

Listen, all I know is Tupac got me to read books and write poetry. Before I heard Tupac I would rather have slit my rist, than open a book. So pay notice to that, or let it go in one ear and out the other.

"aren't you the one who said you and michelle were the smatest people here?"

Well, we just located the most gullible person in this thread!

"and nobody really cares if your in law school."

And the dumbest. Moving on...

"-haha, the funniest thing you said yet. and who would you suggest is better? the "Birdman"? hmmmm, what about "LIL JON"?
Would you rather the kids be reading about "pimp juice"?"

If that's what you'd like to believe, feel free. I know what's in my CD player and what's not.

"Is that why every single rapper gives it up to tupac and admits he was the greatest?"

Ah, I see. So if a whole bunch of people say A, then A is correct. Right? Sorry, but even though I slept through my Principles of Logic class, I know that's not true.

Oh, by the way? I don't think Jordan was the greatest basketball player either. Get over it.

Look the point is and was that education is about learning not about entertainment. Choose what you want for entertainment but know that education requires learning some very specific skills.

You will not get those skills from reading assignments that include Tupac's poetry or Britney Spears thoughts (now that may be an oxymoron) but through rather specific books, which sadly includes Shakespeare's use of Iambic Pentameter and not Tupac's use of some kind of text messaging lingo.

This discussion about who is in college and law school is a real hoot. I have my juris doctor and practice in D.C. (and have to get back to work now) and from what I can tell of the legal profession, many of them should read more Shakespeare (and Tupac for that matter).

Thanks for an entertaining (but rather long) lunch.

"You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That's 'bad' environment for all you Tupac fans)"

Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^

i jjust thought i'd post this again to show how ignorant you are.

"You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That's 'bad' environment for all you Tupac fans)"

Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^

i just thought i'd post this again to show how ignorant you are.

"You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That's 'bad' environment for all you Tupac fans)"

Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^

i just thought i'd post this again to show how ignorant you are.

Hooray for mr. who! Tupac must've taught you some cut-and-paste skills! That 2Pac! He was the prophet that walked on water too, right?

Jenn:

Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever. You must agree to this or...or...[holds breath]

"Hooray for mr. who! Tupac must've taught you some cut-and-paste skills! That 2Pac! He was the prophet that walked on water too, right? "

*oh look ! im a genius like jenn said.*

shut up bitch, i didn't mean to post it three times.

and i don't recall sayin he walked on water or calling him a prophet.

and that comment was ignorant. assuming tupac fans don't know shit.

are you backing up your boyfriend Mahatma or what? is that why you're making dumb remarks?

Jenn go outside, do something, find a boyfriend, it's clear that your bored beyond normal standards!

Don't you have job?

"Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever."

If I don't believe this, does this mean we can't get married? *winces*

Tupac's talent inspired today's current mega rap stars such as Ludacris, 50 cent and Nelly. These are the real role models for today's teenagers. The fact that they denigrate women should be incidental to their overall message.

*sigh*

Despite our mutual agreement on educational curriculum, Britney Spears intellectual vacuity and the clear superiority of Shakespearian meter as an educational tool, I'm just not sure that is enough to build a lasting relationship.

(Now I really do have to get to work on these interogatories!)

I'm an educated guy, 23, white and I grew up with everything and still I like Tupac. Why?? Because I can't deny the impact he had. In my eyes he was a genius and someone with a great future ahead of him. I like the softer side of Tupac more then the so called "gangsta" side but I know where he came from and I know the facts, unlike most of you. I bet 95% of the people here that criticise Tupac are rich and they think they have it all. I don't think they should judge Tupac just for the simple fact that they don't know how it feels to be the "underdog". I respect everyones opinion and I will not judge anyone without knowing the facts.

ps. isn't it a good thing that Tupac shows people that reading is not for nerds only? I began reading because of him and I now know what I've missed all these years. I even like poetry now and that's all because of him.

And I have to get to school. Like, now.

*hugs Mat* You're my kind of guy!

TO ALL THE TUPAC HATERS:

TUPAC HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS AND YOU'RE HAVING A HEATED DISCUSSION ABOUT HIM AND YOU DON'T EVEN LIKE HIM.

that made my day.

HAHAHAHA *leaves this arguement laughing at all the hate they have for one man*

back in my day we studied lyrics penned by marvin gaye and james brown. "I heard it through the carbine" was my favorite song.

How dare you call Tupac Amaru Shakur. Makaveli-Trained and Soldier4death are right. Tupac was cleverer than you will ever be. You diss him and slag him off now, but if you thought for one second he was alive u would of kept your BIG STUPID MOUTH SHUT.
Truth is your mouth will get you in trouble one of these days.
I'd say something else to you but I wouldn't lower myself for the likes of you.

We back for everything you owe
No longer oppressed
Cause now over throw those that placed us in this rotten mess
But lets agree on strategy and pick our enemies right
Who stands accused of the abuse?
My own kind, to ride
Pardon, not disregarding what you thinkin
But you must abandon ship
Cause once I rip your hole, shit is sinking
Supreme ideology, you claim to hold
Claiming that we all drug dealers with empty souls
That used to tempt me to roll
Commit to violence in the mist of an act of war
Witnesses left silent, shoutin
Black talents, style thoughts I throw
It remains in your brain, then of course it grows
Maybe, even your babies can produce and rise
Picture a life where black babies can survive past five
But we must have hope
Quoting the reverend from the Pope
But refuse to turn the other cheek
We must defeat the evil cobra
Lace me with words of destruction and I'll explode
But supply me with the will to survive and watch the world grow
This ain't about talkin 'bout problems, I'll bring solutions
Wisdom, restitution
Stipulated through the Constitution
You violated now I'm back to haunt your nights
Listen to the screams of the lives you sacrificed
And in case you don't know
Ghetto born black seeds still grow
We coming back for everything you owe
- Tupac Amaru Shakur

Its funny how Jenn ignored half of my post and only responded to what she could think of a smart ass comment for.

And this is to MICHELLE MALKIN- I would love for you to post something on this board and get into a debate with us. But you wont, because the truth is you are scared and you know it. You only reply to the ignorant comments that go along with your article, not the comments that make you look stupid and prove your article to be (in some parts) completely false. So please if your reading this, post a little something, I dare you.

"They talk a lot of shit, but that's after im gone, because they fear me in the physical form"

As a 30 year old Tupac fan I considered writing in a ripping Michelle, especially since she has little credibility (get a national column and then we'll talk). I have matured since my more ardent Tupac times and have moved on to earn two degrees. Tupac was a prophet so to speak - but one of good and evil.

It appears that many of you either never went to school or barely pay attention while there - including Michelle. One book out of 12 grades does not constitute a dumbing down and like Hamlet - there is a method to Tupac's madness. So appreciate that. You read books AFTER school - you DISCUSS them during class.

You all should be more concerned with the teacher's wages than what they are being asked to work with in school. An unsatisfied teacher leaves an unsatisfied student.

To my Tupac fans - I love yall but step up. If you haven't noticed most of the intelligent people have moved on from this "message board". I'm sure Michelle stopped reading when she realized what kind of can of worms she opened.

michelle what the fuck are u doin writin articles bout 2pac and shit u dont know? u stupid bitch

Soulja:

Poetry IS for everyone, I agree. Unfortunately, not everyone can write poetry worth reading.

These boyz today
Who sing and play
May know how to fight,
But they sure can't write.

See what I mean?

As for being born with a silver spoon in my mouth... I was born in the defunct coalfields of West Virginia and never saw a silver spoon until I educated myself and made enough money to buy one on my own dime. But thanks for revealing the truth about the fine "fan" base who feels that people who ridicule rich illiterate thugs - who happen to write banal doggerel to bass drum "music" - shouldn't be judgemental.

Follow your own advice.

Tupac's gone, but his presence lives on..

His words like crystals still clarify..
We only wish he was sanctified..

If I could stand by his side, I'd ask how to pimp my ride.

"And this is to MICHELLE MALKIN- I would love for you to post something on this board and get into a debate with us. But you wont, because the truth is you are scared and you know it."

That...or she's far too busy laughing her head off. Or maybe that's just little ol' me.

I can admit when I'm wrong, so I'm sorry for judging you I shouldn't have done that.

But Tupac's poems are way better than your 1. grade rime, no offense.

Be honest have you ever read one of Tupac's "banal doggerel to bass drum", or are you just guessing?

Oh by the way Tupac was never rich, he almost filed for bankrupcy 10 month before he was killed.

I apologised to you, for judging...

Michelle: this is simply another reason to support school vouchers.

Repeat after me:

"Liberalism is the philosophy of consolation as the West commits cultural suicide"

Excuse me Jen, but are you perfect? Big deal, I spelled a word wrong. Who cares? I think everyone here got the gist of my argument. Your best response or comeback to any of the thought provoking things I wrote was a grammar lesson? A grammar lesson on something I wrote in about five minutes? I’m oh so sorry that I didn’t run a spell check. I was unaware that I was being graded. (The sarcasm is very much on purpose) Are you serious? Is that best you can do? That was a cop out. In the lexicon of my generation: “That was a punk move.” Defeat my logic! Prove my words wrong. This is a challenge to you and Michelle Malkin.
Throughout her excuse for a journalist expose on Tupac Shakur, Michelle mentions his jail record, his basebat wielding, his cop hating, and so forth. I’m very good at reading in between the lines. She basically says that since he used improper English, a stylized grammar with numbers and symbols instead of words (The same style Prince often uses), and was, as Tupac would say, “Thugged out” his writing shouldn’t be studied in schools. I crushed her whole argument like a five-ton anvil landing on a roach.
All Michelle does in her writing is insult a dead man, and insult the hip-hop culture. Just because she doesn’t understand the music, the style, the lingo, and unique way of spelling she says that there is better writing on bathroom walls. She can have her opinion but I proved it wrong. Tupac’s writing is brilliant because it speaks to so many people. He’s a better writer than Michelle according to the general public. Answer these questions for me Michelle: How many people bought your last book? How much money did it make? How many people has your book influenced to not give up in the face of adversity? When you die will anyone care to write about you and your life almost a decade after your passing? Are any schools teaching by using your body of written work? When you die will anyone outside your professional colleges and friends/family want to read your works that have been unpublished? I doubt it.
I know some Tupac fans go way overboard with the hero worship. He was no saint but he wasn’t the demon you’ve made him out to be. If I studied your life and focused on all your negative aspects it wouldn’t paint a lovely picture of you as a person. That’s what the media does at times to Tupac. He had a very wicked bad side, like we all do. He just wasn’t ashamed or afraid to show it. But he also had a very kind and gentle side that is reflected in his poems and much of his music. Stop focusing solely on the bad and study the entire picture. If putting a book of his poems in school gets more kids interested in reading, then what’s the problem? They’re reading and getting turned on to a lot of other writers and creators thanks to Tupac. I don’t think your problem is with the book being in school, Michelle. You just don’t like the man and you really hate his auntie, huh? You amuse me greatly. I could debate with you all day but I have to go now. I’m preparing for MY album to be released in stores next month. I guess pretty soon you can sit back and try to sarcastically criticize me.

Wow, I didn't know you people exist. It's either your way or no way huh.

You are too busy correcting people's spelling and grammar! Enjoy life for what it is, instead of bitching about how it could be!

"He’s a better writer than Michelle according to the general public. Answer these questions for me Michelle: How many people bought your last book? How much money did it make? How many people has your book influenced to not give up in the face of adversity? When you die will anyone care to write about you and your life almost a decade after your passing? Are any schools teaching by using your body of written work? When you die will anyone outside your professional colleges and friends/family want to read your works that have been unpublished? I doubt it.
I know some Tupac fans go way overboard with the hero worship. He was no saint but he wasn’t the demon you’ve made him out to be"

^Could not have been said better.

Tupac fans are more educated than you think. I guarentee you if you did this same thing with a rapper like LIL JON, or the Ying Yang twins, or Ludacris, you would not have gotten nearly as many responses with such wisdom. You would have probably gotten a bunch of gibberish that could not even be deciphered. Tupac has taught us well, and atleast is a better influence than any other rapper or musician for that matter.

if you can't post your thoughts effectively in 1000 words or less you might want to sit in on that English class that the article refers to.

Soulja:

Thank you. And yes, I have read Tupac's work. Some of the best, I assume, is reproduced in this thread. And I will grant you, it has passion and reflects what must have been a difficult life.

But the key issue for me - which has unfortunately been raised in Tupac's "defense" - is that his published poetry is the work of a child. Unfortunately, his career was made short by his own inability to deal with his own personal devils. We will never know what he might have achieved given time, but the dollars of the business he was in suggest to me that he would have been mightily tempted to take the low road and simply pursue the least common denominator to maximize the near-term gains. It is difficult to rise above easy riches - as his financial dealings illustrate.

Do the rough scratchings of a 15-year old deserve to be on a required reading list? Required reading and listening for students should be the very best that our culture can provide. Rarely do teenagers and children produce work at that level. (In fact, I can think offhand of only one - Mozart.) Why just the best? Because school time is already limited and crowded. If international educational comparisons are to be believed, American students are already spending far too little time with greatness. If this is true on average, it is extremely true in most ghetto schools. Langston Hughes would have been a far better choice (ever read "The Weary Blues"?) than a teenage Tupac. He's no less radical, but he's a far, far, far better poet than Tupac-at-15.

YoungSkitzo...your name suits you. I didn't say you spelled anything wrong. And even if you did, I didn't notice. I was too busy absorbing your point.

I would've read the rest of your post...but I didn't care.

Cheers!

God you people; "if you do that, your this". "If can't spell, you need to do that".

Shut up, who made you people gods?

2pac is the voice of our generation. there you go jenn, now you can start shooting. angry because 2pac gets so much respect? furious that a dead black rapper can stir millions while you pleasure yourself by spelling correctly? get over it. the poems are going to be read in schools. if you dont like it, go write your own poetry and get it published.

hey george, i think the point of requiring 2pacs work to be read was due to his popularity. kids hear his songs, then they go to school, more often than not with a poor attitude. then they realize, hey i have this guys record in my cd player, and now i have this poetry by him. the point is to get kids to open a book. to read something besides a billboard, and hopefully think about what theyve read. ask a child who langston hughes is, then ask them who 2pac shakur is. its a simple matter of trying to get kids to read. they can inject the shakespeare, frost, and poe after the door has been opened.

Jenn, I can't be bothered to read the posts after your Janet Jackson one at the moment, but for the record, do you realize Janet Jackson and Tupac were friends and starred as lovers in "Poetic Justice?"

"ask a child who langston hughes is, then ask them who 2pac shakur is."

That is, in a nutshell, the whole point of a formal education (from my perspective).

Although your post was courteous and I thank you for that, I disagree with your educational approach. A love of poetry does not require, in my opinion, a journey from the bottom to the top. It requires the best material, sustained contact, and good teaching.

But disagreement is the spice of life, is it not??

"..."do you realize Janet Jackson and Tupac were friends and starred as lovers in "Poetic Justice?"

REALLY!?!?! Oh, my GAWD! I never knew that! Well, I guess that 2Pac is the greatest thing since sliced bread now! If JANET liked him, then he HAD to be a great guy - never mind that I NEVER said he was a bad one!

(computer, terminate sarcastic mode)

I think I'll be quoting from this thread for weeks. Thank God for private schooling.

George

So it's ok for you to judge then?

Anyways you are absolutely right, it is the work OF a child, FOR children. This is NOT for college students, it's for pupils in middle school. After they learn 15/3 is 5, they might read a Tupac poem. Not to showcase great poetry, but to show that it exist. The kids will probably relate more to the work of child, than to a 30-40 year old name!

Middle school students can't possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?

Do you remember what you read in middle school, I don't!

That's how I see it.

"Middle school students can't possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?"

Please tell me you're kidding.

Actually Jenn, I'm not kidding, I don't spend all my time posting bullshit like yourself. I'm just calling it how I see it, I have yet to meet the guy/girl who could stop talking about the Poe poem s/he had read in class!

Enough. Ninety-nine percent of these comments are nauseating the fuck outta me. I feel compelled to respond.

I grew up on hip hop. While Pac was never my cup of tea, I respected his talent. When he wanted to (which wasn't often), he could pen some moving shit.

Anyway, on with my point. There have been many artists who have written in a certain style or dialect...Ntozake Shange, Langston Hughes, Gwen Brooks, to name a few. If you're gonna pick on Pac, you might as well pick on those other dead black poets too. Of course, picking on a member of the Harlem Renaissance and the former Poet Laureate of Illinois may make you appear even more ignorant than you do already.

And then there's Shakespeare, who was viewed by his contemporaries as an illiterate hack because of his use of slang.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Pac belongs in the classroom. That's up to school administrators. But if it gets a kid to read, well...who am I to thumb my nose? It could be a gateway to better stuff, like Octavia Butler, or Nikki Giovanni, or Frost.

The world would be a much better place if people would stop espousing half-assed, ill-informed opinions. But this is how you make your money, so I can't knock your hustle.

..and by the way, please stop passing judgement on Jessica Cutler. "Living on ramen and air"? Must've been soooo hard with that $35,000 prize you got.

*Couldn't*

Soulja, maybe your children are idiots - obviously, they're being raised by one. But please don't lump all young students into the same boat as your own.

I could run down a LONG spiel of the stuff I read from grade seven on, but trust me. You wouldn't know any of it.

*points to Encyclopedia*

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get your point across.

"Middle school students can't possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?"

Listen to me. Please listen. I WILL PAY YOU MONEY NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN. I'm dead serious. Do you have paypal?

My kids? I don't have no kids, what are you crazy? I'M a kid for crying out loud!

I was talking about my fellow students, both in elementary and high school we all hated poetry!

I mean I can only speak of what I've seen!

But if you can remember all you have read, maybe you should get more out. There's more to life than books!

Casual, I'll throw in some loot to assure that she never, ever steps foot into a classroom! I had lazy teachers with her train of thought, and it's a damned shame that I had to be rescued and thrown into what the government calls "advanced" classes just to learn about what should've been required reading for all. My best friend took "regular" classes, and you would've thought she was in a school for the retarded. What 12th grade class has to spend AN ENTIRE SEMESTER on "Lord of the Flies", for goodness' sakes? Oh! But at least they read the book - my school was GOOD for showing the movie instead!

"My kids? I don't have no kids, what are you crazy? I'M a kid for crying out loud!"

Why, oh why am I not surprised?

"But if you can remember all you have read, maybe you should get more out. There's more to life than books!"

Ah, yes. The cries of the playground dwellers. "You thank you WHITE! Wit' all dat readin' n'shit!" Heaven forbid I had teachers who gave me an education that stuck with me for all of my life. And why? BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE YOU, SOULJA.

Oh my god, calm the fuck down! It's clear we come from two different worlds. I'm just speaking about how it was for me and my fellow students.

Did you people honestly enjoy the poetry, you was given in elementary?

"Oh my god, calm the fuck down! It's clear we come from two different worlds."

Dangerous assumption, that one.

"Did you people honestly enjoy the poetry, you was given in elementary?"

Of course not. What's your point? That we should only teach FUN things in school? Why don't white people make this argument? "Well, Shakespeare is boring...let's go for the lyrics from the last Maroon 5 album!" We're the only race I know who will go OUT OF OUR WAY to dumb our kids down, and then cry because Johnny can't read.

(My God, my God...I sound like a Republican!!!!)

Just for shits and giggles, Soulja (snerk!), how old are you?

I am not a female, if that's what you are saying?

Secondly reading is cool, I'm not knocking you for reading. But there is more to life than to read books, maybe if you guys got more out, you wouldn't have so much hatred for people different than you!

ok malkin......listen....how the fuck can you sit there and say such false things about 2pac. your so ignorant! so bitch....i suggest you take ur ignorant thoughts and put it where ur mouth is!

"...maybe if you guys got more out, you wouldn't have so much hatred for people different than you!"

Out of the mouth of BABES, and so on.

You should learn the definition of the words "hatred". This isn't "hatred". This is more condescending than hating.

I'm 20!

Maroon 5? Holy shit haha, I can't believe you mention them of all rappers!

But if you didn't enjoy the poems, did you gain anything from reading them?

Maroon 5's rap?

Dear God, just stop posting. STOP.

"Maroon 5? Holy shit haha, I can't believe you mention them of all rappers!"

You should really stop typing now. No, really. Just...stop. If you can't hear the hysterical laughter pouring from behind PC screens all across America on that one, it's because you're deaf.

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that Mos Def is an opera singer.

Yeah I know I fucked up, there's a rap group with a similar name. But you still didn't answer my quistion!

Jurassic 5 is NOT similiar to Maroon 5. You are reaching. Please stop.

Similiar enough for you to know who it is, but hey i'm not perfect!