OGDENS' NUT GONE FLAKE
JODY DENBERG: The Small Faces album Ogdens' Nut Gone
Flake was described by Rolling Stone magazine as "...a
strange combination of programmed music, fairy tales, and soul-based
rock, and it's fairly wonderful, one of the least pretentious
and most successful spin-offs of the Sgt. Pepper's... era."
Were the Small Faces at the time psychedelically influenced by
the music (i.e., ...Pepper's...) or by the psychedelics?
RONNIE LANE: Naahhh! It was the drugs! It (the album's title)
came from us just thinking if it (marijuana) was legal, what would
it be called....
KEN SHARP: Who cameup with the idea for the cover of Ogdens'?
IAN MCLAGAN: See it wasn't gonna be a round cover. The idea was
it was gonna be a tobacco tin. Andrew got us delivered the actual
Ogdens' archives, scrapbooks -- Ogdens' is a real tobacco company
see, very kind of them really -- all of their very thick scrapbooks
from the 1800's of all of their labels, the actual labels, and
we had the real things in the Immediate offices, really. And we
found "Ogdens' Nut Brown Flake," and Steve went "Oh!",
and it was a rectangular cover, tin, you see, most of them are.
And it opens up inside just like the album. We had an artist come
in, we didn't change it see -- all of the pictures, slogans and
all are exactly the same, it's just that instead of "Nut
Brown" we changed it to "Nut Gone," and it was
a beautiful thing. And the pound box on the back I found in the
book. And then Nick Tweddell and Pete Brown who were in the Muleskinners
did the inside sleeve. Although the photograph Gered [Mankowitz]
took -- that's my banjo, my cat on my shoulder. Steve was George
the cleaner with the mop in the background. (Pointing to pictures)
that was in the Immediate offices, that was Ronnie's flat....
KEN SHARP: Tell me about the Ogdens' album. Were you guys
writing that to be a concept album, or did you just put it together
that way?
IAN MCLAGAN: We had the idea. We took a boat out. This was before
we lived out in Marlowe together; I remember it different from
Ken, I don't remember him being there, but I suppose he was. But
anyway, we took boats out on the Thames, and we'd stop and have
a smoke, have a drink, and play - work on songs. I still have
a tape of that, it's very bad quality -- I daren't play it for
anyone -- but we worked on songs like "The Fly," "The
Journey," "Happiness Stan," and then the idea evolved
about having links between the songs. We talked to Spike Milligan
originally and he turned it down. So we got Stanley Unwin.
KEN SHARP: It's so cool seeing him do it on that Colour Me
Pop show; have you seen that?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, this guy in Japan gave it to me. I brought
back about $500 worth of CDs and videos, Voodoo Lounge
outtakes, all the bootlegs. If somebody's gonna have it, I ought
to, you know. (Getting back to Ogdens'...) I can remember
it so clearly, the order of the A side and the B side. Was "Collibosher"
on there? No, it was done about the same time though, at the next
session.
KEN SHARP: Wasn't "Lazy Sunday" originally a ballad?
IAN MCLAGAN: Well it was slower, but we didn't like. Steve came
in with it. As I remember it, it was slower, but he was singing
it straight, and he went out for a pee or something, and we were
messing about and sending it up (sings), and just taking the piss
out of it. And he came back in and said okay, let's go, and it
just kind of evolved like that.
KEN SHARP: Were you embarrassed that it became so popular?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, we were trying to be serious. And that was
stupid really, as soon as you get serious they'll find a joke,
you know. It's like Humble Pie, that to me was a hopeless attempt
to be too serious, too heavy. Ronnie Lane was like the glue that
kept Steve anchored, you know. His beautiful melodies were missed
immediately when he left the Faces; it was all over. And when
he wasn't writing with Steve, Steve's stuff wasn't half as interesting.
There was real magic there!
KEN SHARP: Did Stanley Unwin understand the humor?
IAN MCLAGAN: Oh yeah. He stayed with us in the studio, spent 5-6
hours just hanging out. He's been in some Carry On films.
He's still around [sadly not any more, he isn't]. Very,
very funny guy.
KEN SHARP: What about your song, "Long Ago and Worlds Apart"...great
title? What's that mean to you?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah, it just came to me. Can't remember the lyrics,
that's what it means to me....
KEN SHARP: Was it hard getting your songs on the albums? Would
the band allow you to do it?
IAN MCLAGAN: It was fucking impossible gettin' 'em to listen
to my songs. Ronnie and Steve had a partnership and you couldn't
break in. I'd contribute bits and pieces, little things here and
there, suggestions, but it wasn't until Ogdens' that they
started puttin' my name on. "HappyDaysToyTown" was my
title, my idea.
KEN SHARP: Why is it that the band's live show at that time didn't
feature more songs from the album? I think you only did "Rollin'
Over" and "Song of a Baker."
IAN MCLAGAN: They were great things to record. We didn't like
to play "Itchycoo Park" either. You couldn't play like
acoustic guitar and get it not to feedback, and "Lazy Sunday"
-- we thought it was a drag that it was a hit. We did play it,
though. Even in the early days we'd do "Hey Girl" or
"Sha-La-La-La-Lee" a few times and then drop 'em. "All
or Nothing" we always used to do. As we had single hits,
we didn't always play 'em. It was fun to do 'em in the studio.
Paul Weller asked me if we used to do "Get Yourself Together,"
and I said I've no idea how the song goes. We'd never played it
live, just played it once in the studio. Same with the Faces,
some of them we'd only played in the studio, and if you ever wanted
to play 'em, you'd have to learn them again.
KEN SHARP: To me one of the most electrifying tracks by the Small
Faces is "Song of a Baker." When I saw that live version
on Colour Me Pop it just blew me away, the energy, the
guitar solo ... what do you remember about that song?
KENNEY JONES: I remember I did a very clever little slight flick
of my left wrist on "Song of a Baker." I heard the song,
and I thought "it don't sound right," and I'll just
play it like this (makes rhythm sound). It just came natural.
KEN SHARP: It has a lot of energy on the Colour Me Pop show.
Are those live vocals?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah. That's the one where Ronnie and Steve get
into a little banter just before the song about "...it's
nice to be nice...." That made me cry with laughter when
I saw it, just fell about. (ed. note: it occurs during "HappyDaysToyTown,"
Ronnie's singing, forgets the line and looks off into space, Steve
looks back and sees him, says "Nice!" and both fall
out laughing and continue the song.)
KEN SHARP: Did Rod Stewart ever come see the Small Faces?
IAN MCLAGAN: I don't think so. Him and Woody (Ron Wood) used
to love Ogdens', used to listen to it all the time in the
Jeff Beck Band. When Woody started getting together with Ronnie,
Rod was quick to follow.
KEN SHARP: I heard Kenney's working on an animated film for Ogdens'.
What's happening with that?
IAN MCLAGAN: Yeah he is. I have no idea what's happening with
that, really....
KENNEY JONES: Ogdens' is brilliant, brilliant. One of
the greatest things about it is no one can mess with it as a complete
piece. Even though I'm redoing it, no one can mess with the music.
We're gonna redo all the music with contemporary musicians, and
some more well-known, long-established artists. And also we're
gonna do a classical piece with it as well -- with an orchestra,
and invite those special guest stars to sing at that occasion.
It was about three years ago now that I first asked Phil Collins
to do the lead voice-over part, the Happiness Stan voice, 'cos
that's basically Steve singing. Phil has got a cockney sound to
his voice, he knew Steve, and he was a big fan of the album, so
I know he would know what to do. He called me up like six weeks
later -- I thought I'd never hear from him -- and he called me
up about 9 o'clock on a Sunday morning and said "I'm sorry
it's taken me so long to get back to you, but I've been on a European
tour, I've got your synopsis, and it's fucking great! Count me
in, I'm a 100% there, I want to do it." To be honest, I need
to go back to him and talk to him further, because so many things
were going on with our royalty situation that I'd kind of put
it on ice for awhile. But now, it looks like things are working
out with the royalty thing -- we'll be resolving all our royalty
differences soon, so I can move forward with the project.
KEN SHARP: Did you feel finishing Ogdens' that it signaled
an ending for the band?
IAN MCLAGAN: No. Was that our last album? When Steve left it
was a big shock. Fucking very sad at the time. You know, he was
chickenshit about it, he didn't let us know.
STEVE MARRIOTT: After we'd finished Ogdens', there was
two ways of going. Either we'd try to reproduce this on stage
-- which would have taken an orchestra, which we couldn't afford,
or just leaving there and getting the hell out and seeing what
develops. As it happened, we got two good groups out of it, Humble
Pie and the Small Faces with Rod Stewart and Ron Wood. When the
screaming stopped, what are you left with. I wanted to do something
more real.
KEN SHARP: We heard the Colour Me Pop TV show where the
Small Faces do most of Ogdens' on stage was going to come
out? Did the Small Faces option that for release?
KENNEY JONES: The BBC supposedly owns that, and they were going
to put it out, and stopped them, because basically, they can't
do that. We will put it out at some point, but we have to negotiate
it with them. Everything the Small Faces played, touched, felt,
whatever, I consider we now own.
