Jon Oliva's Pain
Circle II Circle
All That Remains
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Rock My Monkey: Hello, you are listening to the Rock My Monkey netcast on RockMyMonkey.com. If you are listening to the audio version, please go to RockMyMonkey.com to get the full featured version. Today we are talking with John Olivia of Savatage, Trans Siberian Orchestra, and John Olivia’s Pain. How are you doing today, John?
Jon Oliva: I’m doing great. How are you doing out there, man?
Rock My Monkey: Trying to wake up. I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but this is, to me, the best Savatage album I’ve heard in decades.
Jon Oliva: Well, thank you. I got to agree with you, I kind of think on that one.
Rock My Monkey: Cool. Right on.
Jon Oliva: It’s a great record. I really like it a lot. The fact it’s got music, Chris Olivia music included in it makes it a must have for any Savatage fan.
Rock My Monkey: I was actually going to bring that up. I was reading that part of the reason maybe these songs are a little different is they do have lost music from your late brother. Do you think that made this, for you, do you think that kind of maybe gave you a jolt of passion for this album that would have otherwise been missing?
Jon Oliva: Oh, I absolutely, yeah, I agree a hundred percent. When my wife found the box in a big box of shoes that we had, and it was just at the bottom of the box with a bunch of other shoe boxes, and it just happened to be one that was taped closed. And it had my writing on it in magic marker saying ‘tapes.’ And she brought it into me and said, ‘is this important?’ And I was like, ‘wow, what is this?’ And I opened it up, and it was all, like thirty five old cassette tapes, that were writing tapes that he had before he died. We used to trade, when we would work, we would trade tapes, and that’s how we would work. He would give me his unfinished music, and I would give him mine. So these were like a collection of stuff that we had for years and years and years that I never knew I had them. They were just kind of lost. So when she found them it was quite a pivotal moment, really.
Rock My Monkey: I got to say, that as I was reading, to help prepare for this interview, I was reading some other interviews. I was reading actually on the MetalTemple.com interview you did, and when you quoted your wife saying ‘is this important?’ I actually kind of chuckled. Is this important? Well, yeah.
Jon Oliva: (laughs) My wife, she’s great, but she’s a pack rat. She saves everything.
Rock My Monkey: Good thing.
Jon Oliva: Thank god. I told her, I said, ‘honey, I’ll never yell at you ever again for anything for the rest of your life.’ Because it was just so cool. It added a touch of spark and a vibe to everything. It was kind of like working with him all over again, in a weird way. I mean, it was just kind of like the same thing, because so many of these little pieces of these things that I found were things that I couldn’t remember. I didn’t know what they were. They had little blurbs in between things, and stuff, and stuff that I guess for some reason in the past they weren’t developed enough to move forward with them or something. There was a bunch of them, and I still got about another thirty tapes I haven’t even gone through yet, so who knows what I’m going to find on those.
Rock My Monkey: Cool. So ‘is this important?’ is the understatement of the century?
Jon Oliva: Right. I mean, it’s just, it’s an amazing thing. It’s really weird how it happened, and the timing of it… (laughs) Just unbelievable. But it was all good. It was all positive, and I’m very happy. He’s a part of what I’m doing, even today. That, to me, makes it special.
Rock My Monkey: Which songs actually have Chris’ riffs in them?
Jon Oliva: Okay, well, the title track, Maniacal Renderings, has a piece of his in the middle section. It’s kind of a fast spot that Matt plays a little lead blurb over. So that’s the song with the least amount in it. It’s just one little riff. Theres’s a plucked string thing, and then it goes into this kind of a ride. But when you hear, you can tell it’s so Chris it’s like, that’s got to be the riff. That was one. The Evil Beside You has a couple of riffs of his in it. The main riff I sing the chorus over. ‘Feel the weight of the world upon you.’ That riff that’s playing under that is one of his. And a couple pieces in the solo section. Time To Die, the middle section to that, the real doomy middle section of Time To Die is something that was from 1981, I think. It was one of the first things he ever wrote. Me and Matt kind of doctored it up a little bit, and modernized it a little bit, but the basic doomy riff was Chris’. And the biggest one, and my favorite song I think on the album, Timeless Flight, the entire middle of the song, from after the second verse it goes into this piano thing, and it goes through a long solo passage, and all that was stuff that he had on a tape that was being played on an acoustic guitar. So I had to sit and figure it out on piano, because I wanted it to be piano. I switched it around. But that whole middle section of that song, up until where the third verse starts again is all Chris’ music. I believe there’s another one too. It’s just escaping me for some reason right now. It might be Push It. There’s another little riff in somewhere. So I mean, he’s got credit on like five songs on the album where he contributed pieces of music. So I think that’s just-that’s a lot how we used to do it in the old days anyway. It was kind of just, the only thing is he’s not here to play it. But at least it’s part of him, you know what I mean?
Rock My Monkey: So you say there’s thirty tapes that you found?
Jon Oliva: Oh, yeah. There’s a whole boxful.
Rock My Monkey: Does this mean that we’re going to be hearing Chris’ work, for how many albums after this?
Jon Oliva: Well, it’ll definitely be-as long as there’s stuff that’s usable. I would never put something of his out that I didn’t think was at his level, because he was an incredible player. There’s a lot of stuff I’m sure I’m going to run into when I get into the earlier tapes that’s really not very good. Sometimes you can take something that’s not very good and make it something great just by working with it a little bit. So I’m not sure. I would like to keep him a part of whatever I do. If the material is there-like I said, I still have a lot of tapes to go through that I haven’t even had time to listen to yet. Once I start going through those, I’ll see. Obviously, if there’s stuff there that I can use, I’m going to definitely use it, because if I don’t, no one will ever hear it. I think for the Savatage fans, something like that, this is a good little surprise for them. Here’s something that no one expected to happen, because I didn’t even know. I didn’t even know I had that box of cassettes anymore. I had no idea. If you would have asked me two years ago if I had them, I would have bet my house that I didn’t. But my wife is a pack rat, and thank god. She packed everything in. It was just buried at the bottom of a box full of boots and sneakers. All the moving around I do, we just never went into that box. It was just so weird.
Rock My Monkey: With riffs from a lost tape recorded, some of these in the early 80’s, fitting this current release so well, do you think that shows how timeless the music you and brother made was?
Jon Oliva: I think it definitely does. There is some old stuff on there. Again, like I said, you got to take the stuff, and you got to sit and have the patience to analyze it a little bit, and work with it a little bit. And that’s what I tried to do. I gave it a lot of time. Especially the Timeless Flight song, because there’s actually another riff that comes over the one riff that was from a whole completely different thing. So I had to take this one riff, which was just a guitar riff, and change the key so that it would play in the time and the tempo of how it was played, because he had it playing a lot faster, and I wanted it to play over the other part of his that I was using for the solo section. So it was two totally different things, and that took a long time to get right. But when it comes in, it’s just so cool. You can tell it’s a Chris Olivia riff. Plain as day. I just love that. That was a labor of love, definitely.
Rock My Monkey: Cool. You also said, you made it clear that Savatage is over, but when I talked to Zach Stevens a week ago-
Jon Oliva: Well, it’s over but it’s not over, you know what I mean? It’s over right now because no one’s doing anything. We haven’t disbanded or anything. We have plans to do something in the future. We’re just-it’s like every time we talk about it, and every time I say we’re going to do something, something happens to fuck it up. (laughs) So in my opinion right now, nothing is going on until everybody says, okay, let’s go do something. Then we’ll probably do something. We want to do something for the 25th anniversary of the band, but it’s just a time thing, and a schedule thing with everybody so busy with Trans Siberian Orchestra. Is like a runaway freight train right now. It’s just getting everybody together. They all play in the orchestra, so that makes it even more difficult. The demands on the guys for that has become ten times what it was four or five years ago. That’s one of the things that is been holding up there being a Savatage thing. Another thing I think is the fact we’ve been together for twenty some odd years, and I think everybody just needed to get away from it for awhile. We never really had any break from 1983 all the way up until 2001. The most time we ever had off was when Chris died, and even then, I was recording Handful of Rain four months after he passed away. I mean, it was just, I think after the 2001 tour, and being stuck in the middle of 9/11, and being three thousand miles from home, and not being able to get home, I think that was the emotional thing that snapped everybody. We just got to put this down for a while. It wasn’t fun anymore. We loved the band so much, I didn’t want the band to end that way. I don’t want the band to end that way. When everybody can give it the time and dedication it deserves, then we’ll get together and we’ll do something. Until then I’m going to continue doing what I’m doing now. We’ll see what happens. You never know.
Rock My Monkey: So there is no definite time plan as far as the 25th anniversary?
Jon Oliva: No. It’s like the 25th anniversary actually falls next year. 2007 I believe is the actual year. So we’re going to try to do something. I’ve been doing video compilation stuff, and editing old things for a bonus DVD to go with it, that has a ton of live Chris stuff in concert, a lot of backstage frolicking about, and going to castles in Europe. I’ve been working on that for better part of a year and a half now, trying to do it like a kind of a movie type of thing. It’s very time consuming, so I only can really do it when I have the time. But that’s one part of the project. The other is going to be an album. Whether it’s a live album, or a studio album, that I’m not sure of yet, because Paul and I haven’t really had time to sit and talk about it. But there are plans to do something, so something will happen.
Rock My Monkey: When that happens, are you going to consider that to be the proper goodbye?
Jon Oliva: That depends on everybody else. As far as I’m concerned, I’ll keep playing stuff until I’m seventy years old. But it’s like, there’s got to come a time when you got to move on. The whole thing is, with TSO becoming so big and so popular, it’s hard to convince people who are playing Madison Square Garden in front of 23,000 people to put that on the shelf for a year to do a Savatage club tour. (laughs) If Savatage sold millions of records, that would be a different story. We never sold millions of records. We have a very die hard, core following of lovely people, and very, very true fans, and we love them all. But their numbers were never significant enough to provide a living for anybody. Basically we were living week to week when we were doing all that stuff. Savatage never made big money. We spent far more money than we earned on touring and videos, and god knows what else, crazy costumes and drum risers that couldn’t fit in buildings. All kinds of cuckoo things like that. But we never cared because we just loved the band so much that we just, for us, it was just, we didn’t know anything different from Savatage. It was all we had from when we were twenty years old until now. It was half of our lives were dedicated to doing that. I can understand people, but I think people can also understand that after you’ve done something for twenty, twenty-five years, to take a few years and just step back and do some other things, I think is healthy. Because otherwise-I don’t want to just sit there and hammer Savatage into the ground, making the same album over and over again. To me, that would be a crime. I’d rather wait and not do anything, and then do something spectacular, than beat the thing into the ground. But I don’t want to do that. And we don’t need to do that because of the success of TSO. We’ve got the money and the stuff to take care of everybody. Now we can do it because we want to do it, not because we have to do it.
Rock My Monkey: Will this be-if you’re able to do the 25th year anniversary-will there be a full production DVD filming of it, so fans can have that high quality archive?
Jon Oliva: Absolutely. It will definitely be-Paul wants to do it big, so it’ll definitely be the full thing.
Rock My Monkey: Will this be a one time show, a full tour? Or do you know?
Jon Oliva: That I don’t know. I would say to do one show would probably not work. I would say it probably be a small series of shows. Maybe a couple, two or three in America, and then three or four in Europe in certain areas. They would all be filmed, and then we would put it together from there.
Rock My Monkey: Cool. Well, if there is any way, anything I can do, humanly possible that I can do, to get you guys to do one of the shows in Seattle, I will go to amazing lengths to make it happen. I know that’s way off in the corner for you.
Jon Oliva: I have a lot of friends in Seattle. Kurdt Vanderhoof is a good friend.
Rock My Monkey: There is that connection. Now this is totally hypothetical, obviously, but there was some strange magic that happened for TSO to explode the way it did. If some strange magic happens and the Savatage DVD goes multi-platinum, would you be able to balance that and TSO, or would your head explode?
Jon Oliva: I would probably tie a rock around my ankle and find the highest bridge. I don’t know. That would be something you’d have to deal with at the time. It’s hard to say. TSO just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger every year. It’s almost like a runaway train. It’s very exciting watching it happen. I was on the road with them last week, and I was introduced at the soundboard. Kurdt Vanderhoof is running the sound for TSO out front, so I was hanging out front with Kurdt, and they introduced me, and I got a standing ovation from people all the way from eighty years old to eight years old. (laughs) It was weird, man. I felt like a circus ringmaster, or something.
Rock My Monkey: You are the circus ringmaster of TSO. Now, like I’ve said, I’ve been trying to get an interview for TSO for a few years, for anything related that you do. So I do have a few TSO questions, as well, if you don’t mind.
Jon Oliva: Sure. Not at all.
Rock My Monkey: For the fans that go to Trans Siberian Orchestra because of who is onstage-obviously you’ve got a lot of Savatage fans that follow TSO-do you mind spilling the beans on who will part of the East Coast package, and who’s going to be onstage for the West Coast tour?
Jon Oliva: It’s basically the same lineup. The main core band is still the same. Al Pitrelli and John Middleton head up the West Coast with Angus Clark on guitar. Also with Al, and Al’s wife, Jane Pitrelli, is a phenomenal keyboard player. That’s my dog losing her mind.
Rock My Monkey: (laughs) Glad to have her part of the interview.
Jon Oliva: Yeah, it’s great. On the East Coast is Chris Caffery, Alex Skolnick, Bob Kinkel, who played on a lot of the Savatage albums, played a lot of keyboards and orchestra stuff on the Savatage albums.
Rock My Monkey: Could you say his name again? I couldn’t hear it over the dog.
Jon Oliva: Bob Kinkel
Rock My Monkey: Oh, Bob Kinkel
Jon Oliva: Bob Kinkel He’s done a lot of stuff with Savatage. He was actually the first outside musician to ever play with Savatage in the studio. He did a lot of the orchestration work with me. Actually he taught me a lot about orchestrating when we were doing Hall of The Mountain King, and that album. That was the first time we worked with him. And he’s on the East Coast, also. So, the thing is is that it’s really for the fans that see it, it’s really about the show and about the music, more than it is about ‘oh, that’s Al Pitrelli, or that’s Paul O'Neill or Chris Caffery’ or anything like that. We try to keep it away from it being like that, because the band is very interchangeable. We use a lot of different people, and we want to keep it that way. So we have our core players, which are Savatage, including myself, because I play on all the records. We kind of move everything else around what the songs need when it comes to string players or vocalists, and things such like that. We want to keep that door open. I think that’s what makes it so unique and so fresh, because you never really get a chance to get too comfortable with one thing before we’re changing it and trying something different. But I think versatility, especially with something like TSO, is very important, because it can get a little bit monotonous using the same people all the time. So we try to keep bringing in new talent.
Rock My Monkey: Speaking of changing things up, there was talk of Kurdt Vanderhoof of Metal Church being involved with the TSO albums. When will fans be able to pick that up?
Jon Oliva: That album is probably not going to be out until springtime. We actually started recording, and then the Christmas tour started, so we had to take a break from it. Actually I’m scheduled back in the studio January 2nd, so Paul’s not really giving much time to recover after New Year’s Eve, put it that way. (laughing)
Rock My Monkey: With TSO being so established as a Christmas holiday thing, what is being done to make sure that the non-metal TSO fans, those sixty year olds that gave you the standing ovation, what’s being done to make sure that they get excited about this album, and don’t go ‘what, that Christmas band is doing a spring album? Who cares?’
Jon Oliva: Yeah. Well, I mean it’s the type of stuff that we’re doing. TSO has developed a sound and a style that’s kind of to me was born from Savatage Dead Winter Dead and Wake of Magellan, and Poets of Madmen album. You can kind of see where TSO came from. More so Wake and Dead Winter Dead. I mean, the sound and the different singers and the type of things we’re doing, it’s more catered to a wider range of people anyway. We don’t want to shoot for one particular age group or one particular market of style of music. We want to be able to just appeal to everybody. And he’s done that. Paul’s been able to pull that off somehow. A lot of people can’t do that. But his lyrics and his stories and the way we go about things is very universal, to me. That’s the feeling I get from it. Whether you like rock or not, it’s really hard not to like some of this stuff.
Rock My Monkey: So you don’t think there’s ever going to be a problem at all with those fans that, to them, they’ve never heard of Savatage. They don’t give a flying rip about Savatage.
Jon Oliva: No, I don’t think so. ‘They look like what?’ (both laugh)
Rock My Monkey: Right. There are sixty year old fans of TSO that I’ve talked to. Basically parents of my friends, that I sit there and I go, ‘well, you know that TSO started off as a metal band, right?’ And they’re just shocked. They’re like ‘what, you’ve got to be kidding me!’
Jon Oliva: And it’s the truth that people are starting to realize that now, which is cool. I’m starting to get older people asking me questions when I go to shows, and stuff like that. They ask me a bunch of things. ‘What about this Savatage thing?’ One day you’ll get it.
Rock My Monkey: How come you don’t tour with TSO?
Jon Oliva: I don’t tour with them on the Christmas stuff. Because I want that time, I know I have that three months every year to do my own stuff, put together my records and work on my own material. I never agreed to do the Christmas stuff in the first place. I love writing it, and it was great fun, but playing it live every night was just not my kind of thing. I’m a little bit more of a throwback metal guy. I can’t play it 89BB every night, it needs to be a 189. (both laugh) So it just wasn’t my-I did a few of the shows with them. I did a few of the tv shows and stuff. It just wasn’t for me. Anything other than the fact that I felt like I was just a puppet or something. Not a puppet, or like a mannequin, just moving my hands. I couldn’t really be myself. And me onstage, I’m a little bit wild and crazy, I like to have a good time. TSO is a very family-oriented thing. I can’t be running around going ‘fuck, fuck, fuckedy fuck fuck fuck’ all over the place and shit like that. To me, I don’t like being me. When they tour the stuff, when they do Beethoven and Night Castle, which is the record we’re working on now, and that goes out on the road in the summertime, or springtime of the year after, I’ll be doing that because I sing on both of those albums. So that one I’ll do, because it’s not Christmas stuff, and that I won’t mind doing. The Christmas stuff they’ve got, we’ve got a great situation, and it gives me time to do what I want to do, and it gives me time to work on more material for TSO also. So it kind of works out really well that way.
Rock My Monkey: To me, the JOP stuff and the TSO releases seem like two sides of the Savatage pie. One being the more mellow side, and one being the more metal side. Would you say that’s accurate?
Jon Oliva: I would agree with that. I could see your point there. Anything I do is going to be compared to Savatage or TSO just because of who I am and the fact that I wrote the stuff for all three things. But that’s okay. I don’t mind. I think that my stuff that I’m doing on my own, it stands on its own two feet. It’s quality. It’s really good. It’s me saying things I feel like I have to get off my chest. So it’s a way for people to get into my head a little bit. Then that frees me up to when I do the TSO stuff, it’s fun for me. It’s like I don’t feel frustrated, and I’m not saying anything. I look at TSO for me as more of a job. It’s like my job is to put Paul’s lyrics and stories and stuff to music. And it’s very hard, it’s very difficult, it’s very time consuming, it’s very challenging. But it’s not as enjoyable for me as when I’m doing like what the record I just did, was more fun than I’ve had in the studio in twenty years. So, I mean, it’s all good though.
Rock My Monkey: Will there ever be any videos from Maniacal Renderings?
Jon Oliva: Yeah, we are going to be filming. In late March we’re filming some stuff over in Europe, and there will be some stuff available. We want to do an acoustic, a DVD acoustic thing, because I’ve done some acoustic shows over there last summer that went over really, really well. And the record company’s like, ‘we should do one, we should do one.’ So I may do one of those. Then some of the live shows that we’re doing, where I’m headlining Prog Power in London at the end of March, and I’m going to film that show. So yeah, we’re going to do a bunch of stuff, and then see what we can put together.
Rock My Monkey: If there was one song that fans should listen to before they buy this CD-if they’re thinking about buying this CD and there’s one song they could listen to to convince them to buy this CD, what song would that be?
Jon Oliva: As far as this new record goes?
Rock My Monkey: Absolutely.
Jon Oliva: I would say Timeless Flight. Because it’s got the most music-it’s a song that’s pretty much written 50/50, me and Chris. And it is very reminiscent of, to me it’s kind of reminiscent of Crowds Are Gone, from The Gutter Ballet album, it kind of has that type of vibe to it. But it’s a very magical song just for the way it came together. That would be the song I would say, for the people, if you’re a real true metal head, you want to listen to Time To Die, because that’s one of the heaviest songs I’ve done since City Beneath The Surface. If you’re more into the melodic sound that I do, then Timeless Flight is a definite-it’s hard, because I like every song on the album.
Rock My Monkey: I was just going to say, the lyrical hook that catches in my head, and I end up singing in the shower is actually the chorus for The Evil Beside You.
Jon Oliva: Oh yeah. ‘Feel the weight of the world upon you.’ Yeah, that’s a great one, too.
Rock My Monkey: That sticks in your head.
Jon Oliva: That song started playing in Europe on the radio, and it did really well over there for me. That’s a great one too. So I mean, it’s the type of album you just got to put on and enjoy. It’s got a lot of different varieties of music on it. It’s got messages in every song. It’s telling about something that’s going on in the world today that everybody should be able to relate to. It’s a very special album to me.
Rock My Monkey: As I was saying, I was reading your interview with MetalTemple.com, and you were talking about how much money Savatage has lost. So now I got to know, the John Olivia’s Pain project, how much money does that lose?
Jon Oliva: Well, I’m doing that on a much smaller scale, so I really haven’t lost anything, because I’ve been able to do the things with the budgets I’ve been given from Europe. I’ve been able to do what I had to do. It always costs money out of your pocket to do this. But the difference between this and money coming out of your pockets for Savatage is like the difference of a penny to a thousand dollar bill. (both laugh) You know what I mean? It’s a much smaller scale for now. But I don’t mind that, because like I said, I’m just doing it because I love to make music, and I wanted to give the Savatage fans something special. And this is what I can do right now for them. I can’t give them anything else. I’m basically just doing it for that. I’m not really doing it for-I’m not really making money on it. I spend more than I make. But I don’t care, because Trans Siberian Orchestra takes care of me, and I don’t have to worry about that anymore. I can really just do it from the heart, because I want to do it, and not have to worry about finances as much.
Rock My Monkey: Would you say that TSO is your job, and John Olivia’s Pain is your outlet.
Jon Oliva: Yeah, I would have to say that. TSO is more, like I said before, is more like a job. I love it. I love my job. It’s a great-but it definitely, I have to really focus, and I have to be able to work with a wide variety of people. It’s very difficult when you’ve got a room full of people, and everybody’s got their own envisionment of what things should be like. You have to adapt and learn to work with people, and bounce off of people. That sometimes is very difficult. And that, for having the JOP thing, is my outlet where I can do this the way I want to do it. I don’t have to worry about this guy or this girl, or this guy or this violin player, or this bass cello player, worrying about ‘that’s not right.’ It’s just like any job. It’s got its great moments, and it’s got its pain in the ass moments. So my escape from the pain in the ass moments is to do JOP.
Rock My Monkey: I got one more final question, but before I ask that, is there anything that you want to make sure the fans know about? Anything we haven’t covered?
Jon Oliva: Just that I really think you guys are going to like this record. I hope I will be able to see everybody on tour sometime this year coming. God bless you all.
Rock My Monkey: Cool A JOP tour? A John Olivia’s Pain tour?
Jon Oliva: Yeah.
Rock My Monkey: Sweet.
Jon Oliva: We’re putting some shows together.
Rock My Monkey: This is the final question for the interview. Basically I ask this mostly to challenge the subject to see how you can uniquely interpret the question.
Jon Oliva: Okay.
Rock My Monkey: If you had a chance to completely wipe any rock or metal band off the face of the earth, who would it be and why?
Jon Oliva: (laughs) Rock or metal?
Rock My Monkey: Pretty much any guitar-oriented music.
Jon Oliva: Oh, god, I could wipe off the face of the earth. (laughs)
Rock My Monkey: And you got to say why, too. And remember, you can interpret this in any way you want.
Jon Oliva: Oh, boy. That’s one of the greatest questions I’ve ever been asked in my entire career, man. Oh, boy, that is so hard. You know what, probably for me, it would be the Bay City Rollers.
Rock My Monkey: Cool. Why?
Jon Oliva: I hate plaid.
Rock My Monkey: (laughs) Right on! I love it. In closing I just want to remind anyone that is listening to this interview through our netcast to the audio portion that they can go to RockMyMonkey.com for the full featured version of this, and many other interviews with more amazing artists. I thank you very much for speaking with me today, John.
Jon Oliva: Thank you, man. You guys take care.
Rock My Monkey: And I hope everybody runs out and gets Maniacal Renderings, and checks out TSO on their new Christmas tour.
Jon Oliva: Okay. Well, god bless you guys. Happy holidays, and you all take care, and I’ll see you on the road.
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