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« Bush: Ready for global climate change rules -- late next year |   Latest postings   | Swamp Sunrise »

Originally posted: May 31, 2007
Bush to mother: Don't sell on eBay

Posted by Mark Silva at 2:30 pm CDT

Several mothers who have lost children at war in Iraq took part in a new talk show today on National Public Radio.

One of them, Elaine Johnson, recounted a meeting that she had with President Bush in which he gave her a presidential coin and told her and five other families: "Don’t go sell it on eBay.”

An excerpt from the interview on NPR's Tell Me More can be heard here.

The president told her that the war goes on because the U.S. has "a mission'' to complete. But Johnson says she has discovered her own mission now: Fighting to bring the troops home.

Host Michael Martin asked Johnson: "What about you? Why did you decide to start speaking out? ''

"My son was killed November 2, 2003,'' Johnson said. "After they had my son’s memorial in Colorado Springs -- that’s Fort Carson -- I was interviewed by the Gazette Newspaper, and that started it all.

"They said they had a mother or a person to ever lashed out at the president, criticize the president of being insensitive,'' she said. "So a couple of days after that they called me and said that President Bush would like to meet me. And I said well okay, only at his cost because I was not spending my money to meet him.''

"So he flew about a hundred families back to Fort Carson,'' she recalled.

"And in the room that I was in it was only me and four more other families. And I asked him questions you know, on um why we were over there? He couldn’t answer that. I said, well what are we fighting for? He said to finish a mission.

"I said, why was my son and the rest of the soldiers on the Chinook helicopter, which was supposed to be only to transport cargos not humans? He said, well he didn’t know. He referred me to General Wilson, which was in the same room. General Wilson’s response was that they, you know, they was transporting them on that same helicopter and never was shot down.

"They flew over Fallujah; Fallujah was always the hot spot. Common sense would've tell them, if you fly them over Fallujah, you should have escorts that has the equipment to detect these weapons that would attack the plane.

"But you know, they so brilliant, they up there in D.C., now, that a mother with a high school diploma can sit down and day, okay, now I won’t send them over a hot spot without protection.

"President Bush, he just didn’t see that, and he told me I was kind of, seemed like I was kind of hostile. I said, ‘yes I am hostile, because you sent my son over there.’ So my thing is -- all the questions that I asked him, he didn’t know nothing then, and he definitely don’t know nothing now, because the United States is in worser shape now that it was in 2003 that my son died.''

Martin asked: "So when you left that meeting did you leave with determination to do something or did that happen over time?''

Johnson said: "When he told me -- I said what’s, what’s the mission? He couldn’t give me an answer. I says, well I’m going to tell you what: I’m on my mission now. My mission had just begun. And my mission is to fight to bring these troops home, to take care of these troops when they get home.

"Then he gave us a presidential coin,'' she said. "Now you check this out: He gave six of us a presidential coin, tell us not to tell the rest of the people that was there, and then after that he told us don’t go sell it on eBay. Now you tell me how insensitive that can be? What kind of caring person is that?''


in Iraq War | Permalink

Comments

Wow, it was really nice of the Commander Guy to give the mother of soldier who was killed in Iraq a Presidential coin!


Yep, that should cover her for the loss of her son at the hands of the NeoCon thugs who trumped up the lies to get us into Iraq in the first place.


I wonder if W. told her some of his drinking stories from when he hid during Vietnam in Texas or maybe Cheney can tell her how the insurgency in Iraq is in it's last throes again?

Posted by: John E | May 31, 2007 2:43:59 PM


 

"don't sell it on ebay" hyuk, hyuk. Good one George! You're so funny.

Like giving a coin to a parent will make up for the loss of a child.

I wonder what GW gave his mother’s maid all those years ago when he got her pregnant and dragged her to Mexico for an abortion.

Posted by: nisleib | May 31, 2007 2:45:16 PM


 

This from a President who has not attended a single military funeral. That's right. Not one.

Posted by: Kenny Bunkport | May 31, 2007 2:54:47 PM


 

I wonder how a President Kerry would have handled that situation.I'm sure with much more class and humility.

Tell me again why you voted for Bush, Leo?

Posted by: Raving Loon | May 31, 2007 2:59:23 PM


 

Here's another one from the Commander Guy and his band of idiots.This one only cost us taxpayers 63 million.

Let's all vote for those "Conservatives" in 08!


Al Hurra television, the U.S. government's $63 million-a-year effort at public diplomacy broadcasting in the Middle East, is run by executives and officials who cannot speak Arabic, according to a senior official who oversees the program.

That might explain why critics say the service has recently been caught broadcasting terrorist messages, including an hour-long tirade on the importance of anti-Jewish violence, among other questionable pieces.

Facing tough questions before a congressional panel last week, Broadcasting Board of Governors member Joaquin Blaya admitted none of the senior news managers at the network spoke Arabic when the terrorist messages made it onto the air courtesy of U.S. taxpayer funds. Nor did Blaya himself or any of the other officials at the Broadcasting Board of Governors, which oversees the network.

"How does it happen that the terrorists take over?" asked Rep. Gary L. Ackerman, D-N.Y., at a hearing last Wednesday of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee he chairs. "Is there no adult supervision?"

Blaya conceded that the top officials in the network's chain of command could not understand what was being said on al Hurra broadcasts.

Posted by: Raving Loon | May 31, 2007 3:12:01 PM


 

I was all set to type up something all witty and snarky, but I just couldn't do it. Giving the mother of a dead soldier a coin and telling her not to sell it on E-Bay...Wow. Just wow. My heart goes out to Mrs. Johnson. I hope you find peace someday. May you succeed in your mission.

Posted by: weinerdog43 | May 31, 2007 3:22:09 PM


 

Just when I thought that Chimpy McFlightsuit couldn't get any chimpier, this comes out . . . .

Posted by: Buster | May 31, 2007 3:33:09 PM


 

Will we see weeks of coverage and outrage by the mainstream media like we did when decorated war hero John Kerry messed up a joke? Odds anyone?

Posted by: Paul | May 31, 2007 3:43:00 PM


 

I'm sure he was trying to be funny and light, or maybe the President was unnerved by somebody being "hostile," but that just wasn't the time to be witty. Weinerdog is right. The Presidential coin in and of itself isn't really insulting, but given in that manner to someone who's recently lost a son, it is pretty thoughtless. Not that Bush would have read it, but it sounds like the scene from "A Tale of Two Cities" where the Marquis de St. Evremonde accidentally runs over and kills a small child with his coach and then throws a coin to the father to compensate the family's loss as he continues on his way.

I hope that Mrs. Johnson and the other five families at that event are able to heal from their losses with time. They deserved better than this.

Posted by: Op109 | May 31, 2007 3:48:30 PM


 

He gave he only one coin? I thought the traditional payment for blood money was 30 pieces of silver?

Posted by: Tony | May 31, 2007 4:03:14 PM


 

Between the double negatives and hearing someone use John Kerry and "class and humility" in the same sentence, my sides are busting over here. Thanks for the comedy, guys!

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 4:04:13 PM


 

Yeah, im sure he just handed it to her when she was hysterical and said don't sell this on ebay. People have a little more tact than that, and for all you people who know it all, the president does too. I gauran-damn-tee that when it was said those present laughed and enjoyed a light hearted moment, INCLUDING this woman. It's too easy to rip someone apart by looking for the sympathetic vote from everyone, and then the media gives them the absolute moral authority card. I love it.

Kenny- the president doesn't have to meet one on one with families either, but he does it. Can't be easy. And then you've got people like Cindy Sheehan, the former activist, who demands secondary meetings and follow up meetings.

Posted by: mark | May 31, 2007 4:04:16 PM


 

The loon's right, Kerry, the career C student, would've told the mother that her son never would've been killed if he'd simply studied harder in school.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 4:05:25 PM


 

Jeff, I'd change the subject also if I voted for a complete moron twice.

I'd suppose Bush doesn't quite understand the loss of life compared to Kerry who fought in a war and had to take a mans life.

While Bush was drunk as a skunk guarding Houston or Alabama or whatever.

Posted by: Raving Loon | May 31, 2007 4:14:37 PM


 

Between the double negatives and hearing someone use John Kerry and "class and humility" in the same sentence, my sides are busting over here. Thanks for the comedy, guys!

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 4:04:13 PM

What double negatives Jeff?

Surely even you would not be so crass to be laughing at Mrs. Johnson's admittedly inarticulate words. Surely you would not find humor in the deep pain of the mother of a fallen soldier. Please show me, with the exact quote you are referring to that I am wrong.

Are you that uncaring Jeff? There are no double negatives in the comments section, so I am left to assume that your sides are bursting, at least in part, at Mrs. Johnson's loss.

Posted by: tony | May 31, 2007 4:23:40 PM


 

Insensitive. That is all that comes to mind.

Posted by: AR | May 31, 2007 4:26:29 PM


 

Does the almighty Decider care? Sure he does and it's safe to let a fox watch over the chicken house.

The Unfeeling President
by E.L. Doctorow
September 9, 2004

I fault this president for not knowing what death is. He does not suffer the death of our 21-year-olds who wanted to be what they could be. On the eve of D-Day in 1944 General Eisenhower prayed to God for the lives of the young soldiers he knew were going to die. He knew what death was. Even in a justifiable war, a war not of choice but of necessity, a war of survival, the cost was almost more than Eisenhower could bear.

But this president does not know what death is. He hasn't the mind for it. You see him joking with the press, peering under the table for the weapons of mass destruction he can't seem to find, you see him at rallies strutting up to the stage in shirt sleeves to the roar of the carefully screened crowd, smiling and waving, triumphal, a he-man.

He does not mourn. He doesn't understand why he should mourn. He is satisfied during the course of a speech written for him to look solemn for a moment and speak of the brave young Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

But you study him, you look into his eyes and know he dissembles an emotion which he does not feel in the depths of his being because he has no capacity for it. He does not feel a personal responsibility for the 1,000 dead young men and women who wanted to be what they could be.

They come to his desk not as youngsters with mothers and fathers or wives and children who will suffer to the end of their days a terribly torn fabric of familial relationships and the inconsolable remembrance of aborted life . . . they come to his desk as a political liability, which is why the press is not permitted to photograph the arrival of their coffins from Iraq.

How then can he mourn? To mourn is to express regret and he regrets nothing. He does not regret that his reason for going to war was, as he knew, unsubstantiated by the facts. He does not regret that his bungled plan for the war's aftermath has made of his mission-accomplished a disaster. He does not regret that, rather than controlling terrorism, his war in Iraq has licensed it. So he never mourns for the dead and crippled youngsters who have fought this war of his choice.

He wanted to go to war and he did. He had not the mind to perceive the costs of war, or to listen to those who knew those costs. He did not understand that you do not go to war when it is one of the options but when it is the only option; you go not because you want to but because you have to.

Yet this president knew it would be difficult for Americans not to cheer the overthrow of a foreign dictator. He knew that much. This president and his supporters would seem to have a mind for only one thing -- to take power, to remain in power, and to use that power for the sake of themselves and their friends.

Continued here: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0920-13.htm

Posted by: EvilPoet | May 31, 2007 4:31:05 PM


 

"or whatever," thanks for the illustration that you have no idea what you're talking about, Loon. I know I'm tempting fate by addressing you here, but how many times do I have to tell you? I have never voted for Bush for any office in my entire life. I wrote in McCain in 2000 and I didn't vote for either of the nincompoops in 2004.

I agree that Kerry should know and understand the gravity of losing a life in a war, but when he insulted the intelligence of all our soldiers by saying: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq," he CLEARLY illustrated that he's no smarter than Bush in social situations and also showed another of many examples of the contempt he's had for the military. His contempt was first demonstrated when he testified against his fellow troops to congress and called them murderers in the 1970s.

A cursory search of Kerry's gaffes, legislative mistakes, and the career C average he tried to hide from the voters shows that he's no brain child in non-social situations, either.

Face it, he'd be doing the same stuff you're lambasting Bush for doing right now, unless you honestly think Kerry would've had the intellectual courage to get us out of Iraq... after he voted to authorize the war... after he said he was reporting for duty. That's just, ugh, no.

Anyway, if you'd said that Al Gore, maybe, would've had more class and humility in this situation I'd be inclined to agree with you. I do enjoy our civil discussions, Loon.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 4:37:02 PM


 

Mark.. how do you "guaran-damn-tee" that it happened like that.... other than the simple reason that you obviously would have liked it to happen that way, there's no reason for you to think that.

This lady says herself in the above quote that she found it insensitive and it doesn't sound like she was in too good a mood in the President's prescence. Why would you think she would get a good yuck out of his comment?

Posted by: david k | May 31, 2007 4:45:39 PM


 

Tony, I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just pointing out blatantly bad english. "Don't know nothing" is actually a triple negative, too. I feel bad that she lost her son but it doesn't make her any more articulate. I just think if you're trying to criticize the intelligence of the President of the United States you shouldn't say he "don't know nothing." It sort of eats away at your credibility on the subject. "They so brilliant" isn't really going to help her cause, either.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 5:13:31 PM


 

Oh, and Tony, my sides are bursting at her attempt to impugn the intelligence of the President while using double-negatives, not at her loss. Nice attempt to put words in another poster's mouth, there.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 5:22:28 PM


 

Reminds me of that scene in Tale of Two Cities where a French aristocrat tosses a coin into the crowd after his coach has run over a street urchin.

Posted by: JEdens | May 31, 2007 5:23:30 PM


 

"I wonder how a President Kerry would have handled that situation.I'm sure with much more class and humility.

Tell me again why you voted for Bush, Leo?

Posted by: Raving Loon | May 31, 2007 2:59:23 PM"

Yeah, or President Gore.

""Don’t go sell it on eBay.”

This is the way Bush, and other oligarchs, view us, the great unwashed.

Posted by: C.Morris | May 31, 2007 5:32:40 PM


 

"While Bush was drunk as a skunk guarding Houston or Alabama or whatever.

Posted by: Raving Loon | May 31, 2007 4:14:37 PM"

Raver is correct.

Jeff, it's called 'quality trigger time'.

Bush 'ain't had none'. (sic)

Posted by: C.Morris | May 31, 2007 5:39:05 PM


 

"Bush to mother: Don't sell on eBay"

This was a claim made by someone who is critical of Bush and it is apparently uncorroborated. Yet the writers at The Swamp print it as fact.

None dare call it liberal bias.

Posted by: S. Sherman | May 31, 2007 5:47:55 PM


 

Dick Cheney and George Bush have created a lot of jobs with Ebay, and they are justified in demanding that the economic growth follows some common sense rules. With Dick Cheney as President, this economic growth will continue.

Dick Cheney 08

http://www.ilovedickcheney.blogspot.com

Posted by: richard bruce | May 31, 2007 6:17:25 PM


 

"Diane Ibbotson and H. Elaine Johnson are grieving mothers. Both lost sons in Iraq, and both feel strongly enough about the war to travel to the nation's capital for demonstrations. That is where the similarities end. Johnson will be protesting the war, while Ibbotson will be speaking out in support of the military action." (from the Huffington Post)

Ibbotson and Johnson. Guess which one Mark Silva quotes here and which one he never will quote?

Posted by: Bruce | May 31, 2007 7:21:06 PM


 

So Jeff, what were Bush's grades in school, the one who got into an ivy league school only because of his dad? With the amount of money daddy donated to his alma mater, even you, or for that matter, Bruce could have attended. Oh, wait, Bush always refused to talk about his grades. Must have been a stellar student. Good thing his loyal fraternity brothers aren't spilling the beans. Interesting picture I saw of Bush being hung upside down while drinking at a college party, a few years ago in Men's Health. Must have been studying for his finals.

Cheny in 08? Hasn't this country suffered enough?

Posted by: RomanB | May 31, 2007 7:33:30 PM


 

I'm just surprised that Bush knew how to get on EBay. This must be where the expression "not worth a plugged nickel" comes from. Anything from him would end up amongst the grilled cheese sandwiches with the image of a religious figure.

This sounds exactly like something that Bush would say, so I can readily believe it.

Passengers on Air Force One get mementoes, and so do many White House visitors. There are limits on how expensive these gifts can be, as well as rules about what a President can accept from foreign dignitaries.

Posted by: pb | May 31, 2007 7:39:32 PM


 

Why does chimpy mcflighsuit hate the troops AND their mothers?

Posted by: snitramc | May 31, 2007 8:03:24 PM


 

Not even Kerry can touch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbPVrb5KM

Posted by: dt | May 31, 2007 8:13:51 PM


 

Bruce, meet S. Sherman, S. Sherman, meet Bruce.

Posted by: Bubba | May 31, 2007 8:18:39 PM


 

The human shield theory is still alive and well in the Democratic party, apparently. We should at least give kudos to Cindy Sheehan. Even if it was belated, she realized that her personal loss and her fame were nothing more than a pathetic attempt by powerful political figures (ones with names like Pelosi, Emanuel, Clinton, and Chavez) to exploit her and use her tragedy as a shield against criticism of them and their policies. The woman was exploited and used by the left and then tossed aside like a dirty dish rag once she was no longer needed.

You can see Tony doing the same thing here, trying to imply that me correctly pointing out that Ms. Johnson used double-negatives in her attack on the president, somehow means I'm making light of her loss. I'm not. I'm making light of her ridiculous political statement. The death of a soldier is not a blanket shield against criticism of political statements made by a relative of that soldier. What Ms. Johnson said, and what we do here every day, is nothing more than political discourse. Free speech is never a one-way street, ESPECIALLY political speech.

Johnson isn't the first human shield the Democratic National Committee has trotted out for reporters to write one-sided stories about. Here's to hoping she wakes up like Sheehan did someday.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 8:35:41 PM


 

Jeff,

Why aren't we allowed to see the caskets of our fallen soldiers coming back from Iraq?

Posted by: Bubba | May 31, 2007 8:45:28 PM


 

I love sitting here listening to yuppie young Republican Jeff avoiding talk about his REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT BUSH and trying in vain to steer the conversation towards John Kerry, who is not the President because of his hero Karl Rove's evil doings in Ohio and then to top it off, the little twit whose always crying about everyone else screaming on here, starts making fun of the way a mother of one of our fallen troops uses the english language.


Real classy, you're a ***** Jeff!

Posted by: John E | May 31, 2007 9:39:36 PM


 

Well, Roman, I don't think Bush has ever claimed that he's all that intelligent the way loon has claimed Kerry is. I don't think Bush is all that intelligent, either.

But to answer your question, Bush's grades at Yale, the EXACT same institution Kerry went to, were only a little bit better than Kerry's (Bush had an overall average of 77, Kerry had a 76). They both belonged to the same secret society, too.

I Guess Daddy got John Kerry in, too, eh? And Bush never attempted to hide his grades. He released them to the public in 1999 before he officially declared candidacy for the presidency. Kerry fought the release of his and they didn't become public until AFTER the 2004 election.

Educate yourself on the subject with this USA Today column: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/benedetto/2005-06-10-benedetto_x.htm

Or this CBS News story: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/07/politics/main700170.shtml

Cheer up, though, you're not the only pseudo-intellectual that backed the wrong horse in that race. Check out this quote:

"Does anyone in America doubt that Kerry has a higher IQ than Bush? I'm sure the candidates' SATs and college transcripts would put Kerry far ahead."

Howell Raines
- Former Executive Editor of the New York Times

Is it really any wonder that Raines oversaw one of the darkest periods in the history of the Times? Or that he was fired in disgrace?

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 9:53:41 PM


 

Jeff, I think you doth protest too much.

Your first reaction was only to say that the womans statement made your "sides burst" and you ended with "Thanks for the comedy, guys!" I don't see much in the way of compassion there. Personally I don't find anything about this woman's dstory of loss comedic. I find it incredibly painful to read. Yes, she lacks education, and as a result I would imagine she doesn't have alot of opportunities in life, or much in the way of material wealth, and now her son has been sacrificed in service of his country. Yeah, really funny stuff.

I think it was pretty clear to anyone that the death of this woman's son really didn't affect you at all. You chose to make fun of her lack of education as your total response. I guess military families only matter to you as long as they toe the Republican Party line.

Maybe you can find a good chuckle here. I sure can't.

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/jenningsdariust.html

Posted by: Tony | May 31, 2007 10:25:07 PM


 

Jeff,

Here's another "human shield trotted out" in the reddist of red states where nary a democrat can be found. After you've inspected her narrative for grammatical correctness, gotten your perverse laughs, feel free to critique her for failing to "wake up" to Bush's war of choice. You're pathetic Yoder, a disgrace to journalism, a disgrace to the human race.

Posted by: dt | May 31, 2007 11:32:27 PM


 

Laugh it up Jeff, don't miss a double negative and don't neglect to politicize a Mother's grief:

http://origin.sltrib.com/search/ci_5882323

Posted by: dt | May 31, 2007 11:37:43 PM


 

Jeff,

Who did you vote for in 2004, Kerry or Bush?

I don't believe for a second that a partisan hack like you didn't vote a straight GOP ticket...which makes you a part of Team Bush.

Posted by: John E | Jun 1, 2007 1:06:30 AM


 

Re:
Johnson isn't the first human shield the Democratic National Committee has trotted out for reporters to write one-sided stories about. Here's to hoping she wakes up like Sheehan did someday.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 8:35:41 PM

---------------------------------------------

I suggest you Google this person and get some background. Bush is hardly an exemplar of clear public speaking, and this lady, in pain since 2003 from her son's loss, is clearly not George Will in terms of making her point, but it's nonetheless valid to her. From 5/12/06 interview:

ELAINE JOHNSON: I have their fullest support of bringing the troops home. Every time I do different rallies and different events, I get emails and phone calls, you know, telling me to keep up the good work, because we all support our troops. We just don't support this war, because when I met President Bush back in ’03, there was nothing -- he couldn't tell me why my son was killed, why the soldiers are over there. And here it is 2006, and the matter has not gotten better. It's just gotten worse, so he still can't tell me anything, why our kids are getting killed. But, you know, we know why. It's because of the oil. Like Cindy was saying, the greediness of him and his colleagues is for oil.

(She's from South Carolina, and that's the argot - I think none the less of her for her syntax. At least, she has a reason for lack of articulation - Bush went to Yale and Harvard, and cannot string a sentence together without verbal fumbles. I'd suggest watching Tony Blair on PBS, to hear what an intelligent leader sounds like; and catching "Prime Minister's Questions" on CSpan before Blair leaves office in late June. Blair did a fine job for Britain for 10 years, and Bush's policies left with with a SIX percent approval - that's what happens when there are no Neocons in the equation to bolster Bush's egregiously poor performance.)

Posted by: pb | Jun 1, 2007 1:58:47 AM


 

Leaving Ramadi (Sorry Sheryl)

Life springs eternal
On a sewage-strewn street
Not that I care at all
I spent the best part of my losing streak
In my Humvee retreat
For what I can't recall
Oh I'm banging on my M24
As I check for IED's
And I'm shaken to the core
I say my prayers
Should our maker feel inclined
And I wonder what we'll find

[Chorus]
I'm Leaving Ramadi
explosions so bright
Palm sweat, firefight
On a Saturday night
Leaving Ramadi
Leaving for good, for good
I'm leaving for good
I'm leaving for good

Used to be I could drive up to
Bagdad for the night
Straight Talk Express
Tell me every thing's all right
But these days it seems
Nowhere is far enough away
So I'm leaving Ramadi today


I'm standing in the middle of the desert
Waiting for my ship to come in
But now no General, no Senator, no President
Can take this loser hand
And make it win

[Chorus]

I quit my job as a journalist
Got my training at Medill
Writing stories until one or two
Such a muddy line between
The things you want
And the things you have to do

[Chorus]

I'm leaving Ramadi
And I won't be back
No I won't be back
Not this time


Posted by: TheReamer | Jun 1, 2007 3:07:17 AM


 

Jeff, I disagree with you in SO many ways on this "human shield" post of yours. Yes, OF COURSE Mrs. Johnson's grammar is incorrect and inelegant. If you want to point out her grammatical mistakes, by all means -- have at. And if you want to attack Mrs. Johnson's POSITION, by all means here too -- go to it, boy! But your argument, as I read it, was that she used incorrect English, therefore her position is false; and, as I read Tony's reply to you, I got him catching you in exactly the same way -- not defending her position BECAUSE SHE LOST A SON (awful for her but not in and of itself an argument against the war).

I see your argument as EXACTLY the same one Ann Coulter used to spew her hate against the 9/11 widows who happened to voice the "wrong" opinion about Bush -- she attacked them rather than their argument.

I know you and Tony don't get along, and that's fine by me. It doesn't change the logic, though. If you want to go after Mrs. Johnson's grammar, perhaps she'll benefit from the lesson. Doubtful, but possible. You'll look like a nitpicking, pompous jerk in the process, but that's your choice to make. If you want to pick the lady's argument apart, however, I'd love to hear what you have to say. So far I see nothing indicating you've found something wrong with her position, just that you've found her too "unwashed" to voice an opinion.

Posted by: Op109 | Jun 1, 2007 6:03:36 AM


 

You can see Tony doing the same thing here, trying to imply that me correctly pointing out that Ms. Johnson used double-negatives in her attack on the president, somehow means I'm making light of her loss.
Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 8:35:41 PM

Well ya know....fool me once ..shame on..shame on me...fool me twice....huh.....huh...well we just won't get fooled again.

Posted by: bill r. | Jun 1, 2007 6:20:47 AM


 

Tony, I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just pointing out blatantly bad english.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 5:13:31 PM

"English" is generally capitalized.

The guys and gals on the right are true twits.

Posted by: Bud McFarlin | Jun 1, 2007 6:40:09 AM


 

Elaine Johnson must've taken great comfort in the Presidents gesture.

Posted by: Logic Prisoner | Jun 1, 2007 6:40:18 AM


 

Bush's comment just reflects his general attitude that "life goes on." And it does... for him. He's not going to lose a wink of sleep for ANY of the soldiers who have died.

That's why we will never see JORGE BUSH, Jeb's son, anywhere near Iraq. Prince Harry set the standard for the conservatives. Go dress up like a soldier and stay home and tell everyone how you boldly served your country during a time of war.

Posted by: Bud McFarlin | Jun 1, 2007 6:46:21 AM


 

Nothing new in most of these posts, but Op109 hit on something here: "But your argument, as I read it, was that she used incorrect English, therefore her position is false," actually that's not what I was saying at all. I believe she has every right to her position, just as Diane Ibbotson does. No position on something like the war is 100% true or 100% false.

I say you should say and believe whatever you want about the President and the war. That's just free speech. But if you're going to go around saying he "don't know nothing," then your English should at least be better than his mangled language, don't you think? That way your statements will help you and your cause, a lot more.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 7:46:17 AM


 

Once again we try to point out tiny snap-shots of Bush to paint him as this uncaring, completely in-sensitive person...the comment was a brief moment to lighten what Im sure was a very painful and difficult meeting -- remember that young men and women VOLUNTEER for the Armed Services, they dont get to pick and choose where they are sent and in what capacity...I thank God that her son was brave enough to volunteer and defend this nation -- but the President cannot possibly speak diresctly to each and every family based on the fact that they do not agree with the situation, whether its Iraq, or Bosnia, or China or where ever troops are needed...

Posted by: TOtt2146 | Jun 1, 2007 8:02:04 AM


 

Blogger Jeff/Andrew Speaker- separated at birth.
Same self-importance, smugness...so much more better than the rest of us peons.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly | Jun 1, 2007 8:17:26 AM


 

To clarify, I drew the most mirth from the fanciful idea that John "If you don't study, you end up in Iraq" Kerry would have more tact and humility really than anybody. The idea that someone, anyone, still tries to impugn another person's intelligence by saying that person "don't know nothing" was just a little amuse-bouche to the whopper of a main course that is Mr. Reporting for Duty.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 8:22:31 AM


 

His comment to her was meant to be folksy and light-hearted, but it was completely inappropriate. But don't try to tell him that, or anything else for that matter.

Posted by: Tom | Jun 1, 2007 8:52:57 AM


 

The majority of you people are showing your true, naive colors. Maybe another major attack killing even MORE people would jog your memories about why we are over there. These are EXTREMISTS who will do anything to kill Americans. I think you all are smart enough to know that. You know, whether it was W or Kerry or whoever, we'd be in this war right now and soldier's would still be dying. They are the ones who enlisted wanting to help keep our freedom, and the majority of them agree with what's going on. The majority of the people here in the states who aren't there seeing what the Iraqi's really think disagree with it. Don't you think you should listen to what the troops are saying? Look at Cindy Sheehan's son. He was proud to be fighting over there and told the public the great impact that was happening. Sheehan completely missed the point. This war must be fought unless you all want to be converted to Islam (which isn't something I would touch with a 10-foot pole) or be killed. Those are the 2 choices if these people have their way.

Posted by: steve | Jun 1, 2007 8:54:07 AM


 

Jeff-

I'd just like to thank you. Your posts in this thread should finally lay to rest the notion that Republicans actually support the troops and their families in any way. You've done a service for your country in laying that myth to rest.

Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 9:08:15 AM


 

Shorter Steve: Everybody clap louder!

Posted by: weinerdog43 | Jun 1, 2007 9:17:54 AM


 

Tony, your posts illustrating how great a deadline for withdrawal would be show exactly how much you support the troops. My support is rock solid, something yours has never been, and that's something you've previously said you're quite proud of.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 9:25:48 AM


 

Same old Billy/Jeff tap-dance trying to justify his callous behavior. If you ever wondered what "compassionate conservative" means in Bushworld, look no further.

Posted by: dt | Jun 1, 2007 9:25:51 AM


 

pb,I enjoy the Prime Minister's questions on CSPAN, too. Those guys really get into it when Tony has the book.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 9:28:02 AM


 

Tony, your posts illustrating how great a deadline for withdrawal would be show exactly how much you support the troops. My support is rock solid, something yours has never been, and that's something you've previously said you're quite proud of.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 9:25:48 AM

Yep, Jeff, I'm quite proud of my support for gthe troops out of harms way, and out of a dangerous situation that their presence inflames rather than improves.

I'm also quite proud to say I have never mocked a grieving mother of one of our dead soldiers, a shameful action you seem quite proud of.

Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 9:45:07 AM


 

Can someone explain to me why we are'nt busting down the gates of the WH and dragging these smug bastards out and pounding the bejesus out of them?I can't believe there are folks out there that actually voted for this dirtbag and still support him.One last thing about this scary individual that parades as our leader;the other day he signed an executive order that gives him complete dictatorial authority in times of national crisis.I'm quite sure the next 911 will occur between now and the end of the year.Think about that for a moment won't you.

Posted by: MATTHEW | Jun 1, 2007 9:45:53 AM


 

That should have been "getting the troops"...

Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 9:46:33 AM


 

It's too bad she couldn't afford to hire a spokesperson so that McCainiacs like Jeff wouldn't laugh at her. Does a degree from Northwestern school of journalism make you a pompous jerk or were you born that way?

Posted by: Janet | Jun 1, 2007 9:55:36 AM


 

Elaine Johnson you are a true patriot and a hero.

Thank you for your courage and thank you using that courage to ask him directly what his mission was. Your son would be very proud of you.
I sure am.

Posted by: Justice | Jun 1, 2007 10:00:22 AM


 

"I have never mocked a grieving mother of one of our dead soldiers."
Tony, neither have I. I mocked a political statement that misfired on itself that said mother made. Like I said before, it's not a shield. Cindy finally realized it.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 10:23:15 AM


 

Tony, I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just pointing out blatantly bad english. "Don't know nothing" is actually a triple negative, too.

LOL!!! Jeff calls this a "triple negative." What a MORON. He must think "know" is a NEGATIVE. What a boob. He probably thinks he is "oh so hot" right up to the moment where he make such a STUPID gaffe.

To the point of this thread, Bush is the decider. He has decided to be an A$$. Quit being surprised at the depth of his ability.

Posted by: NOT Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 10:24:43 AM


 

When is Jeff's unwavering support for the Coward-In-Chief
going to cause him to put on a uniform and go fight his war?
If he is enlisted, then I commend him. If he is not then he should
just shut the &%#@ up.

And BTW, Kerry's flubbed joke was just that . . . a flubbed joke.
He was referring to studing hard so that you "Don't get stuck in Iraq" . . . meaning, as everyone knows, BUSH being stupid and stuck in Iraq. He was not referring to anyone in or out of the military.
He left out ". . . like President Bush". THAT would have cleared it all up and the MSM knew it but didn't report it that way.

It actually made a lot of sense and it's too bad he botched it.

Posted by: Bob | Jun 1, 2007 10:29:47 AM


 

Jeff, only a mean-spirited, ugly Republican would laugh at a grieving mother till his "sides are busting." Have they busted yet? Keep laughing, hopefully for the rest of us they will. And a double negative to you for not joining up and fighting for your man Bush. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't tell us you're too old, they're getting desperate and will take anyone. It's been recently reported that the military is accepting amputees, people who have already lost body parts in the Iraq war. You'd qualify. You obviously have a prosthetic brain. You go boy!! Enlist. A double positive to that.

Posted by: Audrey | Jun 1, 2007 10:34:09 AM


 

No Jeff, you mocked her. You didn't mock the substance of her statement, you mocked her inarticulate, uneducated means of expressing it. It's fine to disagree with her, but you moved on to laughing at her personally.

But your right, being the mother of a dead soldier, is obviously not a shield from the elitist personal attacks of the hypocites of the right.

Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 10:37:29 AM


 

Just call me Dick. Quit picking on Jeff, with his background and a few years at Savior U, we could grow us another Scooter. He claims to have voted for McCain, and in usual GOP-cheap-labor style plays "what if" with Kerry.

LET'S PLAY WHAT IF WITH MCCAIN. Maybe McCain would have sung these poor moms his "bomb bomb bomb, let's bomb iran" song. Better yet, he could have taken her for a stroll down the streets of Baghdad, stopped for a cup of tea and a mortar attack. I noticed at the GOP debate that each candidate tried to be "like Reagan." Kudos to McCain, for portraying the later years.

Posted by: Dick 'the dick' Cheney | Jun 1, 2007 10:38:32 AM


 

It is always the poor, and usually lesser educated, who carry the large burden during war.

Bush is angry with Saddam... thousands of soldiers and civilians die.

Oil companies want access to the $$$, thousands of women and children die, millions pay the bills.

I cry for this mom, and for all of the others, who will at some point know that their sons died fighting the rich man's war. The civil war WE CAUSED has nothing to do with freedom, and less to do with "keeping them over there."

It has to do with: oil contracts, puppet governments, guns over butter, and keeping the american people watching the shiny thing, while their economy is tipped to the wealthy AGAIN.

Posted by: Joe Public | Jun 1, 2007 10:49:11 AM


 

I was exagerating to get my point across there, Not Jeff.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:00:53 AM


 

Jeff to America: If you speak less than perfectly, you are a joke and anything you say should be ignored....I cannot believe Sen. McCain sends you onto blogs to spead such filth.

Posted by: john | Jun 1, 2007 11:04:57 AM


 

Thia clown should be impeached. The lives of our soldiers mean nothing to him, nothing at all. It sickens me to think of all the blood we've spilled in Iraq for absolutely no reason. This Administration will definitely go down in history as the worst of all time.

Posted by: Paula | Jun 1, 2007 11:13:10 AM


 

No, I didn't Tony. I mocked that she was trying to call someone else unintelligent by saying he "don't know nothing," that's an attack that will misfire every time. Does everyone notice that Tony's in my head again and knows what I meant more than I do? I wish I had ESP like Tony sometimes.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:18:54 AM


 

YOU are right Jeff. You didn't make an error, you were EXAGERATING. Of course, that is a lot like EXA-GG-ERATING. But, AGAIN you didn't make an error.
You were only, WHAT?

Saving a G to use later?
Pacing yourself?
Fighting the great "G shortage" in America?

So far I am more taken with an uneducated mom who is mourning the death of her son than I am with your pseudo-everything thinks-he's-wealthy-enough-to-be-conservative.

I hope during your growing years that you awaken to a better sense of self. If you want to feel better about yourself, send this grieving mother a card of sympathy and enroll in a better school.

Posted by: dick cheney | Jun 1, 2007 11:22:13 AM


 

Tony, I've already said I was laughing more at the idea that John Kerry cares about our troops and even acts humanely toward them.

Also, Tony, where's your condemnation of Jethro? He called another "grieving mother" of a soldier "hippie scum" in the Sheehan thread. Does your rancor only to apply to "grieving mothers" who haven't renounced the Democratic party? How about it, the floor is yours.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:23:53 AM


 

Jeff,

I've refrained from putting the red pen to many of your posts because I would be a hypocrite. Although the notion gets quite tempting when I see you get on your high Medill horse.

Why are you so obsessed with Elaine Johnson's improper use of language? You actually had a good laugh at her expense? Quite telling.

Again, why aren't we allowed to actually see the caskets of our fallen soldiers returning from Iraq?

Why isn't the liberal media banging down the door to the WH?

Posted by: Bubba | Jun 1, 2007 11:24:16 AM


 

Bubba, I'm not obsessed with it. I made an offhand comment about it. One that was more pointed toward the laughable notion that John Kerry would be any better in that situation after the things we know he's done and said concerning our troops past and present, and then as usual I have to deal with people like Tony doing everything they can to twist my words, misconstrue my thoughts and put words in my mouth that I never said. It's typical, really.

I grew up in a rural, poor part of America where double-negatives were the least of everyday grammar's problems. I still managed to figure out at a young age that using proper grammar will help you get ahead in life, so I added, offhandedly, that if you want to insult the president's intelligence it's probably best to not misfire on yourself with a double negative like "don't know nothing." Whenever anyone uses lousy grammar to insult someone else's intelligence, yes, I get a little laugh out of that. Not what happened to her son, not the situation she was in with Bush, but the idea that she felt that statement would impugn Bush's intelligence.

But to Tony that means I hate our soldiers, am insensitive to grieving mothers and that only a republican can be those things.

Jethro called another eternally grieving mother hippie scum on the Sheehan post the other day, but Tony didn't say word one about it. It shows that his outrage is reserved only for his political cause. Let's not put airs on here, this is The Swamp, EVERYTHING is about "my side is better than yours." Please.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:36:59 AM


 

Steve,

We went into this unjust illegal war in Iraq for OIL and to make Old Bushies buddies richer. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 as Cheney and the neocon keeps sprouting out.

Why are we building an unnecessary embassy that cost the American taxpayers 592 million dollars? The people of Iraq are going without electricity and their is sewage in the streets.
The children are affeared to go to school and play outside. I don't want my tax money to pay for this illegal war in Iraq.

More power to Mrs. Johnson for speaking out. Bush does not have any compassion. He does not care because their isn't anyone from his family in Iraq. Bush was AWOL and Cheney with his 5 deferments. We need to impeach both Cheney, Bush and his admin.

Posted by: Katie | Jun 1, 2007 11:45:50 AM


 

Dick Cheney, I make grammatical errors all the time. I'm just not trying to insult the intelligence of anyone else, let alone the president of the united states, while I'm making them.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:48:23 AM


 

Blogger bloke Jeff steps in another pile of biggie. Does this dim duff ever belt up?

Another smashing triumph for the left!

Posted by: Baron Fitsfield Von Fitterhead | Jun 1, 2007 11:49:36 AM


 

Yes, Jeff, the mother's poor grammar (as opposed to the stellar record of impeccable speech from YOUR hero Mr. Bush) totally negates any loss she has suffered from the death of her son in an engagement that neither the President nor the commanding general could explain.

She should obviously go back and concentrate on more important things like, say, putting food on her family (what's left of it). Even the President knows how hard that is.

Jeff, please do us all a favor and show your unwavering support for this President and this war by going over there yourself.

Posted by: Karl | Jun 1, 2007 11:59:22 AM


 

Another Victory for the Liberal side of the aisle!

Posted by: Egbert Souse' | Jun 1, 2007 12:09:58 PM


 

This is for "steve" and anyone else on this site
that backs this traterous,neglegent,lying, murderous criminal BuSh. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. THIS OCCUPATION IS FOR OIL. The Iraqi people are defending their natural
resources from being stolen just as any nation would. Whether buSh is dumb or just stupid is irrelivent. He is a coward and a lier and a thief.

For a full year following 9/11, the President opposed an independent investigation. Under pressure from 9/11 families, the Congress finally established the 9/11 Commission. The Commission was comprised of former politicians rather than experts. They were evenly divided politically -- five Republicans and five Democrats, but chaired by a Republican. During much of the Commission's existence, they suffered from lengthy delays, maddening restrictions, and disputes with the White House over access to sensitive documents and witnesses.

As the 2004 election approached, partisan disunity broke out among the Commissioners over presidential responsibility for 9/11. To maintain unity, they agreed to include only facts and leave readers to draw their own conclusions. This private agreement was not disclosed by the Commission in its report or in briefings to Congress and the media. The agreement contravened the Commission's statutory requirements for:

* A full and complete accounting of the circumstances surrounding the attacks.
* U.S. preparedness for the attacks.
* Findings and conclusions for corrective action.

The facts in the Commission's report (along with those from other key sources) show that the Bush White House received unprecedented warnings of an impending attack and did not try to prevent it. By spring, "the drum beat" had begun; by summer the warnings had reached a "crescendo"; and by the end of July, the CIA director told the 9/11 Commission that the warnings "could not get any worse." Some predicted the actual method of attack -- the hijacking of commercial aircraft.

Intelligence reporting consistently described the upcoming attacks "as occurring on a calamitous level ... causing the world to be in turmoil". When the warnings reached a high peak of urgency in July, the CIA director rushed to the White House to brief the National Security Advisor about an expected attack in several weeks -- it "will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties and will occur with little or no warning ... this is going to be a big one." Bin Laden's goal is "the destruction of the United States." He urged the White House to go on the offense and preemptively attack Afghanistan. He asked for covert authority to go after bin Laden and his organization -- the same request he had been made three months earlier. In late summer, the warnings continued:

* The King of Jordan sent a message that aircraft would be used in a major attack inside the U.S. To make sure it got through, he sent the same message through another country. (After 9/11, the administration got Jordan to rescind the warning.)

* Germany warned us that commercial aircraft would be hijacked for use as weapons.

* President Putin of Russia warned of suicide pilots in training for attacks on U.S.

* President Mubarak of Egypt warned that a bin Laden attack on America was in the advanced operational stages. Another Egyptian warning a month earlier reported that 20 al-Qaeda members had slipped into U.S. - four of them training to fly.

* England warned us twice -- once about multiple airplane hijackings. Prime Minister Blair was involved.

* Israel intelligence sent a list of 19 terrorists inside the U.S. planning to carry out an attack in the near future. Four were 9/11 hijackers.

Counterterrorism officials described the warnings as "the most urgent in decades." Two of the officials considered resigning in order to go public with their concerns. The Commission report does not discuss the specific warnings shown above or why the White House did not respond. The report did confirm that government agencies never mobilized a response, got direction, or had a plan. But, it didn't explain why.

According to the Commission report, CIA briefings to the President and Vice President addressed the al-Qaeda threat 40 times before 9/11. Headlines in these briefings included "Bin Laden threats are real," "Bin Laden Planning High Profile Attacks," and "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S."

Just before the 9/11 attack, the National Security Council placed on the President's desk a strategy aimed at eliminating al-Qaeda in 3 to 5 years. Such a strategy could not possibly confront an imminent threat, one where the CIA director said "The system was blinking red."

Several months before 9/11, the President had rejected a national security commission recommendation to establish a Department of Homeland Security. Instead, he asked Vice President Cheney to oversee an effort to respond to domestic attacks. At 9/11 time, the Vice President had not established a capability to respond to domestic attacks.

Had the President tried to defend against the imminent threat, his role as Commander-in-Chief might still be in tact. Instead, he went on a month-long vacation in August. He did not put the nation in a crisis mode; he did not call a cabinet meeting; he did not pursue military options; he did not give the CIA the requested covert authority; he did not prepare for suicide hijacking of commercial aircraft; he did not strengthen passenger screening; and he did not shore up glaring aircraft vulnerabilities, such as cockpit doors.

Time Magazine's The Secret History of 9/11 concluded that there was a systematic collapse in the administration's national security apparatus. The Terror Timeline book went further:

"The public record reflects that the extreme focus on terrorism in place at the end of the Clinton administration dropped dramatically under the Bush administration. With few exceptions, little attention was paid to terrorism, even as the number of warnings reached unprecedented levels."

Posted by: Paul | Jun 1, 2007 12:26:37 PM


 

This reminds me of a story a woman told about meeting Bush. She was at some White House function and she was introduced to the President as a war widow whose anniversary would have been that day. His response? "Ooooh, double whammy..."

Posted by: Brad | Jun 1, 2007 12:44:34 PM


 

Also, I agree that Dems "use" these people for their own selfish gain, but that shouldn't diminish the conviction and motives of people trying to stop a war that has harmed them most personally.

Posted by: Brad | Jun 1, 2007 12:54:51 PM


 

The loon's right, Kerry, the career C student, would've told the mother that her son never would've been killed if he'd simply studied harder in school.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 4:05:25 PM

Hey,TPJeff-check this out.

http://www.margieburns.com/blog/_archives/2006/11/2/2468355.html

And in case you don't want to link, this here's an exerpt.
A number of students were aware that the residences traditionally kept old grade records. This student was among those who went down to the basement, checked the older records physically and looked at them. Students discussed among themselves the disparities between some grades published for Bush and those stored in the residence hall basement. According to anecdote, some of the housed grade records had also been physically altered, with grades whited out or obscured and other grades substituted.

One key question among others would be when the records were altered. Student hearsay has it that the altering took place during the presidential term of the senior Bush, but that may be conjecture generated by stories still floating around the institution from 1998 and beyond about visits from former First Lady Barbara Bush to campus.

Posted by: Catherine | Jun 1, 2007 1:12:01 PM


 

Wow, some unnamed students dug some unnamed records out of some unnamed basement and only told a leftie blogger. That's some sourcing there, Catherine. That "may be conjecture," indeed. If the official records aren't just that Yale would've said so in 1999.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 1:23:26 PM


 

So, THAT'S why the shrub has no soul! He must not have gotten a very good deal on ebay for it, worthless as it is.....

Posted by: Luath | Jun 1, 2007 1:37:25 PM


 

i cant stand those damn liberal bloggers. them and those investigative reporters, whats with that stuff. add to that those crybaby parents and those bastards with cameras in the torture prisons, the whistleblowing babies.

when i want my news i go directly to fox. straight and balanced. evenhanded and fair.

if it wasnt for those stinking leftie bloggers we wouldnt have this insurgancy and civil war, these illegal wiretaps, torture, those stupid rumors about our president getting preferencial treatment to become a qualified pilot in an airplane no longer used in nam, that stupid mission accomplished sign, that attorney thing, that stinking abromoff scandal, and probably that beautiful young girl having to serve time at the singsing hilton. damn liberal bloggers, probably invented evolution and global warming just to poke fun at us true blue bright white conservatives. okay, maybe laying it on a little thick there.

Posted by: Geoff | Jun 1, 2007 1:40:53 PM


 

I cannot believe it. Once again a blog where the conservative side of things isn't "we are strong", "we are smart", "we have a good idea",
but rather---> we're better off because XXX (enter any liberal name) would have done worse.

Bull$h17!!!!

Any of the democrats would have done better that Bush did. ANY!!! In fact, most conservatives would have done better as well.

Like pulling a lottery number, you have in office the absolutly WORST men in the country at the wheel. NOBODY ELSE (including Kerry) should be accused of the lying, cheating, stealing, poor leadership, bad judgment, live in a bubble, signing-statement, election rigging, veteran benefit cutting, lack of apathy that bush, cheney, rice, ashcroft, rummy, wolfie, et al. have accomplished.

To CONSTANTLY bring up "what Kerry would have said" "what Gore would have done" is as absolutly stupid as possible. (no, im not calling you stupid Jeff %^) just what you are saying... i guess that is the subtle ploy you enjoy)

Posted by: can't believe it | Jun 1, 2007 1:50:24 PM


 

Bush is a Born Again Christian. That means he can commit whatever sins he wants, as long as before he dies he surrenders himself to Jesus Christ all his sins will be forgiven. With this mentality is it no wonder that he feels he can do no wrong???

Posted by: John P. | Jun 1, 2007 1:51:29 PM


 

Elaine Johnson is a wonderful lady, more power to her.

"Don't sell it on EBay" OMG...what can you say to such a crude, brutal man? It's not like he has the ability to empathize with anyone. I blame it on his upbringing.

Posted by: Prissy | Jun 1, 2007 2:13:46 PM


 

I agree, can't believe it. That's why I didn't bring Kerry up. Raving Loon did, and even made the Bush comparison you're complaining about. I honestly can't understand why you guys continue to make excuses for Kerry, either. The man is manna from heaven to conservatives.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 2:14:55 PM


 

Jeff, Jethro's statement was as inappropriate as yours.


Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 2:24:58 PM


 

Yuppie young Repub Jeff, you've stepped in the doo-doo big time.


Now go out and buy yourself a new set of horned rimmed glasses and pocket protectors and come back later.

Posted by: John E | Jun 1, 2007 2:30:57 PM


 

In case you haven't seen old Billy/Jeff tap-dance around his lack of class or compassion, here's a good illustration:

P.S., Jeff, If you have to explain it, it ain't workin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn5-VN3SH1o

Posted by: dt | Jun 1, 2007 2:37:56 PM


 

Tony, then what took you three days to say anything about it? Could it be ideology?

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 2:44:50 PM


 

LOL! With the value Bush has placed on the Medal of Freedom, a "Prezimental Coin" wouldn't get much . . . Lynne Cheneys Book is offered at $.71 and daugher Marys book is a rousin' $.99 plus $5 postage on E-Bay . . . a bargain pickup for adding to "My Pet Goat" in the "The Library"

Posted by: Jess Wonderin | Jun 1, 2007 2:46:21 PM


 

Jeff using Kerry for his own "human shield", nice side-step there. What, did you get tired of trying to blame everything on Clinton?

Posted by: dt | Jun 1, 2007 2:48:24 PM


 

George Bush's sense of humor is at the expense of others!!!! This is a perfect example of that!! This guy is his mother's child-as insensitive as a wasp!

Posted by: cheryl | Jun 1, 2007 3:08:15 PM


 

I would have told "The Decider" to stick his Presidential Coin in his ear!
IMPEACH THIS IDIOT NOW!!!

Posted by: George Warmonger | Jun 1, 2007 3:20:53 PM


 

Tony, then what took you three days to say anything about it? Could it be ideology?

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 2:44:50 PM

Jeff-

I didn't participate in the Sheehan thread, infact I read the comments for the firs time, when you brought it up. (There is a Tony who responds, but as you can tell fronm the comment it isn't me). It was so predictable that you and the rest of the right wing attack machine would take the opportuntity to trash the poor woman, I really just didn't have the heart or energy to go there. I did notice you got your licks in. Apparently the only role you want to see the mothers of the fallen in is in the background of a Bush photo op.

While there were many things I disagreed with her on, Cindy Sheehan bravely spoke out when few would, and she still has my respect and sympathy.

Compassion can reach across ideological lines Jeff. You should try it sometime.

Posted by: Tony | Jun 1, 2007 3:25:35 PM


 

Anyone defending Bush's idiocy is defending their own idiocy as well.....WAKE UP!!!!!!!

All Republicans' should be "caged"?

Posted by: kman | Jun 1, 2007 3:42:39 PM


 

Jeff, your incessant lies about John Kerry in an effort to change this conversation from Bush's callousness are pathetic. Your attempts to bring up the "joke" that everyone with more than one brain cell knew was about BUSH, not "the troops," would be hysterical if you weren't actively engaged in yukking it up at the expense of the mother of a dead soldier. John Kerry has done more for "the troops" than you have EVER done in your miserable chickenhawk life- just last week Kerry spoke out and brought attention to the Bush budget plan to deny the soldiers a pay raise. What have YOU done for soldiers lately - other than mocking their mothers?

Just another keyboard commando Republican who has nothing but contempt for actual soldiers and their families.

Posted by: Rachael | Jun 1, 2007 3:56:08 PM


 

Ha ha! Look, I got the last word in again you lefty losers!

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 4:04:35 PM


 

DT, once again, I didn't even bring Kerry up. You have your raving friend to thank for that.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 4:11:20 PM


 

Leaving Ramadi

Terrific, Reamer

Posted by: C.Morris | Jun 1, 2007 4:30:38 PM


 

The Big B just created himself some more Cindy Sheehans! Just in time.....

Posted by: Barbara Stewart, MLS | Jun 1, 2007 5:12:55 PM


 

Where are some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths. Who does THIS sound like?

Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Krashkopf | Jun 1, 2007 5:21:13 PM


 

http://search.ebay.com/presidential-coin_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40

I'd sell it in a second!

Posted by: A rope leash | Jun 1, 2007 6:28:33 PM


 

Maybe he gave the mother who lost her son a "presidential coin" because to him that would be what _his_ kids are worth.

Posted by: jeang287 | Jun 1, 2007 6:47:33 PM


 

Please don't pretend old skull and bones Kerry is any better. Especially in view of the fact that the Democrats just gave Bush a blank check to continue his illegal and immoral war.

Posted by: lsbumblebee | Jun 1, 2007 7:02:25 PM


 

"then the media gives them the absolute moral authority card"

Gee, how did Bush earn his? He's never had any experience with war, yet his moral authority is absolute. Why do you accept this so uncritically when those who actually have experience with war are apparently so easy to dismiss? I thought the knock on anti-war types was that they didn't understand war, but when someone who knows war all-too-well is anti-war they get no credit for it.
It is one thing to disagree on a given war, it is another to dismiss the informed opinions of others when you yourself are uninformed. Chickenhawks are not simply those who support war having never served, but those who presume to be the only informed voices on the question despite having never served. In other words the defining characteristic of a chickenhawk is neither cowardice nor arrogance, but both of them together.

Posted by: Joe B. | Jun 1, 2007 7:36:28 PM


 

"Once again we try to point out tiny snap-shots of Bush to paint him as this uncaring, completely in-sensitive person" Add together enough uncaring little snapshots and you'll get one big uncaring picture.

Posted by: Joe B | Jun 1, 2007 7:44:08 PM


 

Jeff:

If you're going to assume the role of grammar policeman, perhaps you should revisit the rule of never ending a sentence with a preposition. Let's revisit your comment from earlier today:

"My support is rock solid, something yours has never been, and that's something you've previously said you're quite proud of."

While you may have been the beneficiary of a good education (above writing sample notwithstanding), perhaps Ms. Johnson was not so fortunate. That's tragic on a number of levels. Even a fraction of the $500+ billion dollars wasted in Iraq could have gone a long way towards addressing the education issues this country faces.

People like you and George Bush would rather play the smoke and mirrors game and shift the focus from important matters to irrelevant details. Horrible leadership combined with a your brand of vapid discourse is a lethal combination. The Founding Fathers would be ashamed.

Posted by: jbp | Jun 1, 2007 7:49:48 PM


 

What a disgusting crass piece of crap. The least he owes any American is an explanation, an HONEST explanation, of why our families are dying in Iraq. How much more does he owe the mother of a fallen soldier? Certainly more than a coin and an insult.

Posted by: ckerst | Jun 1, 2007 8:08:50 PM


 

Jeff, you certainly havce a lot of nerve criticizing grammar mistakes when you have the barest grasp of the language yourself. Perhaps you ought to tend to your own education rather than making fun of others?

Posted by: Jennifer | Jun 1, 2007 8:13:01 PM


 

"You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don’t you get stuck in Iraq.” October, 2006

"I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry, June 2005 after his grades were finally made public.

The Wednesday after the "you get stuck in Iraq" statement: "I haven't said anything that's incorrect about them, and they've said lots of things that are incorrect."

The next day: "I personally apologize to any service member."

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." Kerry, 2003

"They (U.S. soldiers in Vietnam) had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war." Kerry, April 1971.

Appearing on "The Dick Cavett Show" in July 1971, Kerry admitted that he'd never actually seen some of the atrocities he testified about, but still maintained that U.S. soldiers fighting in Vietnam routinely violated the Nuremberg Principles.

"I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that."

"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry, 1972. During the 2004 campaign Kerry’s spokesman, David Wade said the historical document containing this quote "needed to be viewed in the era in which it was written."

" ... And there is no reason, (interviewer) Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the - of - the historical customs, religious customs." Kerry, still not getting it in Dec. 2005.

"Al Sharpton is traveling with me today because he's a friend, because he proved during the course of this presidential race that he has a great understanding of what's happening in the country and a great ability to communicate it to Americans." Kerry, summer 2005

Posted by: The Wit and Wisdom of John Forbes Kerry | Jun 1, 2007 8:38:44 PM


 

To all the wingnuts who have rushed on here because you viewed this as an opportunity to slam John Kerry(?!):

Well, all you have proved is one thing: Even YOU can't defend Chimpy this time.

"Lighthearted moment"? Uh, yeah. Right. Bush is never anything BUT lighthearted, I am sure----after all, HIS kids are not risking their lives in Iraq in a futile attempt to inject themselves into a 1,200-year sectarian civil war.

Posted by: jgmurphy | Jun 1, 2007 8:49:13 PM


 

.....and it's STILL all smarter and wittier than anything Bush has said or ever will say in his entire putrid pathetic life.

Posted by: jgmurphyj | Jun 1, 2007 8:57:57 PM


 

As to Jeff's rant against 'double negatives":

Prof. Tom Burnam, who wrote the wonderful "Dictionary of Misinformation" back in 1977---still one of my favorite reference books---discusses at length, the grammatically-pretentious hysteria over double negatives.

It is an attempt, he points out, to apply the logic and reasoning of algebra to verbal expression. Of course, grammar really has nothing to do with algebra, so to claim that saying "he don't know nothing" somehow "really" means "he knowns everything," is itself a non-sequitur.

The bias against double negatives is merely an attempt to quantify language in mathematical terms and is a fool's errand.

Posted by: jgmurphyj | Jun 1, 2007 9:05:53 PM


 

I would have thrown the damn coin right at his monkey ass face and told him to kiss my ass, the lying, two faced, lowdown, dirty, smirking, smug, deceptive, underhanded, oh the hell with it. You can fill in the rest.

Posted by: Mustang | Jun 1, 2007 9:07:56 PM


 

I loved the E. L. Doctorow commentary and was happy to read it again here. This coin story perfectly describes the trouble that we are in. God have mercy. So many Americans still have their hearts intact. But what can we do? How can we stop a madman? No double negatives here for the smartasses who worry about such things rather than our collective soul as Americans. Shock and awe turned into shame and disgrace. And what about that falling dollar that George Bush brought us? Will the double negatives matter when the smartasses are selling their coins on eBay?

Posted by: Sarah | Jun 1, 2007 9:26:10 PM


 

I Do so abhor this creature who inhabits the White House him and his entire puke of a family and I mena his entire family neices nephews down to the tiniest baby in the family. Just more vermin to suck off the lives of honest human beings!He is just a complete dunce and that is being generous. I also hate with a passion those americans who could not see what a fake this man is. He is liar a coward a fraud and an absolute idiot. I condem all those who voted for him and now see the foolishness of that vote to hell for what they have put this country through for the past six years shame on them SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!

Posted by: stephen | Jun 1, 2007 9:47:02 PM


 

People have a little more tact than that, and for all you people who know it all, the president does too.

Posted by: mark | May 31, 2007 4:04:16 PM

You call giving a coin to a family member who lost a loved one a tactful act? I'd say that's the last thing those family members expected, or wanted. Perhaps Bush thought it would create a distraction for his ignorance as to why he decided to invade a country that was no threat to the United States. Bush obviously forgot his lines: "Because Iraq was a gathering threat."

Posted by: WC | Jun 1, 2007 9:51:04 PM


 

Pauline Robinson Bush....The only Bush family member who did right by America.

Posted by: stephen | Jun 1, 2007 9:56:22 PM


 

Re:
pb,I enjoy the Prime Minister's questions on CSPAN, too. Those guys really get into it when Tony has the book.

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 9:28:02 AM
=============
This is a tradition we should import - PMQ's date back to the 1950's, and the practice is followed in Australia, New Zealand, Scotland and Wales.

PM Blair is a remarkable public speaker, and I'd recommend that the posters here spend 1/2 hour on Sunday watching a REAL politician and leader at work.

With Bush as President we are really outclassed, as Putin is also a brilliant speaker, who can go into multi-hour discussions in detail without preparation. Watching Bush go against Putin is like watching a mosquito attack a bear, intellect-wise. I am frankly ashamed most times Bush opens his mouth in representing us overseas. Remember when he gaffed at the Group of 8 Summit in 2006 on a open mike?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/17/world/middleeast/17cnd-prexy.html?ex=1310788800&en=ca1bcacad7c3aece&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

---
In the taped conversation Mr. Bush, clearly eager to get home to the White House after six days in Europe, is heard saying, apparently to a counterpart, possibly President Hu Jintao of China, who was sitting next to him, “Good job, gotta keep this thing moving — I gotta leave at 2:15 — you’ll want me out of town so to free up your security forces.” The voice that appears to be that of Mr. Hu agrees, “Ya,” and he laughs along with Mr. Bush’s trademark giggle.

But Mr. Bush sighs, and explains, “Gotta go home, got something to do.” Apparently betraying some confusion about the geography of Europe and Asia, he asks: “Where you going? Home? This is your neighborhood; it won’t take you long to get home.”

The counterpart, perhaps Mr. Hu, cannot be heard as he responds, but Mr. Bush exclaims, “You get home in 8 hours? Me too! Russia is a big country, and you’re a big country.”

But it is around then that Mr. Blair walks by, and the president yells out, “Yeah, Blair, what are you doing? Leaving?"

Posted by: pb | Jun 1, 2007 10:09:33 PM


 

Tony, I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just pointing out blatantly bad english. "Don't know nothing" is actually a triple negative, too. I feel bad that she lost her son but it doesn't make her any more articulate. I just think if you're trying to criticize the intelligence of the President of the United States you shouldn't say he "don't know nothing." It sort of eats away at your credibility on the subject. "They so brilliant" isn't really going to help her cause, either.

Posted by: Jeff | May 31, 2007 5:13:31 PM

Well, Jeff, is you so brilliant that you can't count to two? Exactly how is "don't know nothing" a triple negative? While I recognize and regret that the contraction may be confusing for you, I'll lay it out for ya: instead of "don't know nothing," let's examine "do not know nothing," shall we? Let's see, there's a "not" and a "nothing"...still looking for that third negative...hmmm...can't find it. You're not counting "know" as a negative, are you, Jeff? While it is a homophone of a negative, "no," it is not itself a negative. Are we clear? Keep working on using that third finger -- we know which one I'm talking about, don't we, Jeff? -- in your counting technique, but don't use it too hastily.

Posted by: Ron | Jun 1, 2007 11:01:10 PM


 

I am one of the other Mothers who was part of this interview, and met dear Elaine in 2004 a few months after my son was lost. Please understand Elaine and I and other mothers who speak are not beholden to anyone's party, or candidate. We are not some publicity prop trotted out to support a campaign.

We are real people. We are Mothers, Fathers sisters brothers, wives , husbands, of real soldiers whom we loved and who are lost in this useless war of choice. We are witnesses to the terrible price of this war. This is neither academic or amusing.

Criticize my stand if you think I am wrong, but do not belittle the love of my son I stand on. Criticize Elaine for language, or listen to what she was trying to say to her Country. Her son was not bought for a coin, her love did not end with Darius's death. Her devotion drives her everyday to speak her truth against this war. It is a sobering and terrible story, all 3477 stories are, -listen to the voices of the grieved of America, and then tell me there is some one's story that should be mocked?

Celeste Zappala-citizen and
Mother of Sgt Sherwood Baker, KIA 4/26/04

Posted by: Celeste Zappala | Jun 1, 2007 11:53:31 PM


 

Bush has a mission.

Make sure the rich keep getting richer. Osama Ben good to Bush - keep him free so that he can clam he is a war president. As a war president, he has been allowed to get away with everything. How is it that we are in this Iraq mess after almost 5 years? No accountability, no plan, no reason. By every measurement, Iraq is in worst shape then it was before Bush invaded it. If another country had invaded Iraq the way Bush did, everyone would be calling for a stop to it. His mission was to get re-elected no matter what the cost and how big the lies.

He allowed 9-11 to happen as he stayed on vacation almost 50% of the time. He took money away from New Oleans to help to re-enforce the walls in case of a hurricane. He stayed on vaction after Katrina for another 6 days. The debt is up by almost 6X since he was appointed by the suppreme rebulican controlled court. Gas is up almost 3X and on and on.

Posted by: bgg | Jun 2, 2007 12:04:32 AM


 

My questions is: When is Douglas Feith going to be arrested and imprisoned for filtering false Israeli intelligence to the White House through his "Office of Special Plans" (how zionazi), to justify the pre-emptive attack on Iraq. Isn't it time?

Posted by: escape_from_bushistan | Jun 2, 2007 12:26:14 AM


 

I am disappointed in the Bush administration. Two of my greatest errors in judgment were made on the election days of 2000 and 2004. I would do anything to take my votes for Bush back. I'm sorry, America. Through this abuse of power from Bush, Cheney and the Republican party I have seen how uncaring they are for anyone not willing to give them privilege, power, and money. We should get out of Iraq now. Yes, the world is through with Saddam, but it is clear is all that really mattered was the oil and whatever Haliburton could get for it. After 9/11, an attack on Afghanistan was warranted, but have we finished the job, NO! There's no money there, so we had to push it with Iraq. I feel sad for our passed soldiers and their families who feel that their will be no justice for their sacrifices. A more competent president would have taken measures to prevent 9/11 before it happened. I remember reading in the paper how Al-Quida made threats about airplanes THREE WEEKS before hand. How much earlier did Bush know? (Wink, wink) What a great opportunity for the defense industry. Let's ignore that so Cheney and his buddies can make more money. The soldier's lives don't matter to them. Rumsfeld is a horrible example by saying not getting them sufficient protection was unimportant. This is the view of the Bush administration. The every day human being is not worthy of justice and protection unless you're in step with Bush. Wake up like me, this gets more evident every day. Mr. Gore, Mr. Kerry, and all other opposition candidates, Democratic, independent, and otherwise, I make a promise to you. I will not be so blind to your opinions and your leadership. I will also choose a candidate who respects the people and their prosperity instead of corporations who which to enslave them. Clean the environment! End the drug war! Legalize Marijuana! Raise working wages and conditions for the working poor! The day of our freedom is coming, January 20, 2009. I will vote accordingly.

Posted by: Milo Berrios | Jun 2, 2007 1:20:46 AM


 

Ofcourse the US government owes the Americans not just any explanation of why they are in Iraq, but the real reason. That is not going to happen, no matter which of the two branches of The Party occupies the White House. It is not your role to understand, let alone participate in such decisions. It is your role to obey and to not sell coins at e-Bay. Once you get that, play along but not buy into their crap and make sure somebody else dies in their wars and not you or your kin, then you might have become part of the cure, instead of the sickness.

Posted by: Albert Bakker | Jun 2, 2007 2:01:45 AM


 

Do we really expect more humillity than that from Bush? I still can't believe I ever voted for Bliar. can't wait til the day I see at least one of them on the stand to be held to account for the chaos they've unleashed.....

Posted by: peanut_eye | Jun 2, 2007 5:13:04 AM


 

Mrs Johnson is to be respected,shown compassion,and backed up by the people of this country.Many fine and intellegent people have never had a chance to learn, what is called good English.I'll drink a cup of coffee anyday with Mrs Johnson [a brave and honest person] before I would with that malcreat in the white house. the facts are that,at the least tens of thousands of inoccent people have died as a result of the lies of this administration.this country needs people like her to set us back on the right course. Mrs Johnson if you read this pay no mind to the fools that disparage you. You are right, and deserve the thanks of this country.

Posted by: dino | Jun 2, 2007 6:36:28 AM


 

Has anyone checked E-bay for presidential coins?

Posted by: livnlirn | Jun 2, 2007 8:07:39 AM


 

Celeste,

Thanks for contributing here. I am sorry for your loss. I am also sorry you had to read the callous and insensitive statements of the soulless few. God bless.

Posted by: Richard | Jun 2, 2007 9:18:23 AM


 

Has there ever been anyone less suited to be the President of the United States. History will judge him the worse ever, but what does that say about us who elected him twice.

Posted by: lbrow | Jun 2, 2007 9:25:06 AM


 

Jeff..Celeste deserves your apology. Are you man enough?

Posted by: TheReamer | Jun 2, 2007 9:32:16 AM


 

Mark: How many meetings did Falwell get? Or Abramoff?

Hmmm?

Posted by: Sleestak | Jun 2, 2007 9:51:10 AM


 

if anybody wants to see the personification of wingnuttery, just read the posts here.

1. jeff begins by mocking the mother of a dead soldier (who, incidentally, was brave enough to go and fight while jeff joined the 101st keyboard commandos).

2. foot soldiers bruce and s sherman chime in with 'blame the liberal media'.

3. when caught in his classless act, jeff first tries to change the subject to kerry, then tries the grammar police flanking maneuver, then retreats to failsafe fallback position #1 - deny, deny, deny.

4. convinced that denial has somehow restored his credibility (while revealing himself as a mccain voter), jeff resumes attacks on mothers of dead soldiers, referring to them as human shields for the democratic party.

5. jeff then reveals that his assumption of the point of this story is to disparage the *intelligence* of the president (easy foil), when in fact it is to illustrate that the president is a discompassionate jerk who has no idea of the suffering he has wrought. wouldn't it be nice if we could return to the halcyon days of the summer of 2001 when our only complaint was that bush was an idiot. jeff displays his own "pre-9/11 mentality". sorry jeff, we've moved well beyond the innocuous notion that bush is simply an idiot. he has a growing list of dubious achievements to show for it.

6. and of course we're still waiting on jeff's retreat to failsafe fallback position #2: BLAME CLINTON

these are the rhetorical flourishes of wingnuttery. although easily identified, they are employed often, almost always in favor of taking the more difficult, but certainly more honorable action of just conceding that the initial statement was tasteless, disrespectful, or flat out wrong.

Posted by: lonesomerobot | Jun 2, 2007 10:21:00 AM


 

Jeff...Wish you could get away?

Posted by: SWA | Jun 2, 2007 11:10:11 AM


 

lonesomerobot....so true.

Posted by: dt | Jun 2, 2007 11:12:35 AM


 

Steve wrote: "This war must be fought unless you all want to be converted to Islam (which isn't something I would touch with a 10-foot pole) or be killed."

Steve is very afraid. He's afraid he will be forced to convert to Islam, or be killed. So much for America being the "Home of the Brave." More like, the Home of the Extremely Fearful.

Steve would do well to read a little history, if he is so afraid of being forced to convert. The religion that has forced people to convert has, historically, been Christianity. Steve should take a trip to Spain -- in particular, the city of Cordoba. There he can visit the Grand Mosque and see for himself the desecration wrought by Christians on another religion. He can visit the Jewish quarter and the Synod, and perhaps he will learn how Moslems aided Jews when the Christian Inquisition was forcing them to convert.

I am sure Steve will ask me, Would I prefer to live in Afghanistan under the Taliban? Since I am a woman, of course, the answer is no. But, then, I don't want to live in an America dominated by the Christian Religious Right that seems to want to take this country back to pre-1920 when women did not have the right to vote and were dominated by their husbands.

As for Bush, he proved to me that he does not care about others when he mocked Karla Faye Tucker, who was pleading for her life. After reading Professor Bob Altemeyer's study, "The Authoritarians" (available on the web), I believe Bush was born without the ability to empathize. A person, especially someone who holds the reins of power, is extremely dangerous if he cannot feel the hurt he causes others. A person who cannot feel, cannot care. Such a person could start a war without suffering one sleepless night. It's all about power. Such a person could even destroy the U.S. Constitution and it would not bother him at all -- and that is exactly what Bush and Cheney are doing.

And that, Steve, is what you should really fear -- not Islamic extremists trying to convert or kill you, but home-grown right-wing authoritarians, dressed up as Christians, exercising illegal unitary executive power and thereby destroying the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. If they are allowed to complete that task, none of us (men and women) will have any rights in this country.

We need brave people, people like Elaine Johnson, to stand up to this very real threat!

Posted by: Karen | Jun 2, 2007 12:47:10 PM


 

Anyone who supports the troops should not disparage the mother of a dead soldier. For any reason whatsoever. Respect the fallen.

Posted by: JB | Jun 2, 2007 3:36:27 PM


 

"I grew up in a rural, poor part of America where double-negatives were the least of everyday grammar's problems."

"Whenever anyone uses lousy grammar to insult someone else's intelligence, yes, I get a little laugh out of that."

Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:36:59 AM

Obviously your rural education failed when it came to the basic rules of writing. Your anthropomorphism of 'everyday grammar' is WEAK at best. Also, 'double negatives' isn't hyphenated. Further, 'busting' is not really a proper word. The word you're clamoring for is 'bursting'.

So, using correct grammar, could you please explain one more time how the words Mrs. Johnson used to express her opinion actually undermine her position? I still fail to see how her intent was invalidated by her ineloquence. However, I totally see how your defence is invalidated by your own ineloquence.

Posted by: Smarticus | Jun 2, 2007 3:57:27 PM


 

Jethro called another eternally grieving mother hippie scum on the Sheehan post the other day, but Tony didn't say word one about it. It shows that his outrage is reserved only for his political cause. Let's not put airs on here, this is The Swamp, EVERYTHING is about "my side is better than yours." Please.
Posted by: Jeff | Jun 1, 2007 11:36:59 AM


Jeff, Let me refer you to this comments you, yourself, made here:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/03/edwards_campaig.html#comments
Lets ingnore the callous attack you made on John Edwards in a post dedicated to an anouncement about his wife's cancer, we'll just skip down to your post at 4:11:54 PM when you refused to call out your 'philosophical brethen' & your reasoning why. To save you time & effort I'll repost the last paragraph for you.

As for me not going after my philosophical brethren for their comments, you have absolutely no leg to stand on, Tony. Days ago you were saying it wasn't your responsibility to renounce the comments of "John" who was passing along campaign smears from the Hillary camp about John McCain. Paolo's not my responsibility like "John" isn't yours.

Posted by: Jeff | Mar 22, 2007 4:11:54 PM

Posted by: jj | Jun 2, 2007 7:06:10 PM


 

Thanks for the support JJ.

Posted by: Tony | Jun 2, 2007 9:36:21 PM


 

The callousness of his gesture is appalling.

He must have many enemies by now....no one can possibly respect this piece of human garbage.

Posted by: Charlie Chan | Jun 2, 2007 9:51:08 PM


 

Bush, Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, it does not matter. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like "America Deceived' from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Last link (before Google Books bends to gov't Will and drops the title):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

Posted by: Jack D | Jun 3, 2007 12:03:44 AM


 

Jeff: What a pathetic caricature of a man you are. Yes, you support the troops-as long as they're dying in that hellhole of a war so you and your ilk don't have to.

Go Cheney yourself, loser!

Posted by: scullygrrrl | Jun 3, 2007 1:41:51 AM


 

Blaming the OTHER person for being 'hostile' toward your OWN behavior and acts is a classic diversionary blaming manipulation tactic that emotionally stunted semi-human people--like Bush--use, especially against women (because anger is 'unfeminine'). "I dint do nothing--you're so MEAN. You're HOSTILE. You're NOT NICE."

Bush is so despicable it's even difficult to find words strong enough.

Maybe someday some mother will spit right in Bush's face. I hope it happens. I hope it happens.

Posted by: VL | Jun 3, 2007 7:40:47 AM


 

Most of the posters here are very unfair to Pres. Bush.
He gave them each a presidentail coin as a symbol, something to make them remember that he took time from his busy schedule to meet with them. Who are they, after all. A bunch of nobodies. Yet, he, the Master of the Free World, the Decider, who can always get more soldiers by offering each a green card for enlisting, takes time to meet with the families of the ones that have been expended already.
AND he was extra sensitive by telling them not to sell it on e-bay becasue he wanted to spare them the upset of discoveing that it is worth a small, dry turd, just like the dollar. If that's not sensitive, I don't know what is.

Posted by: Eteria Irinis | Jun 3, 2007 10:19:45 AM


 
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