The Optimized Initiative Compilation

Introduction

The vast majority of justifiably popular threads on the Character Optimization board have a three things in common:

1) They provide useful information to help players make optimized characters
2) They organize the opinions and advice of experts and insightful rookies into a discussion of the topic.
3) They focus with awesome fervor on one particular idea, whether it is a particular class, a new build, or a combo.

This thread is an attempt to meet all of these commonalities on a new subject, one that is often overlooked in the optimization world: Initiative.

There is no doubt that at any level, high or low, initiative is a key factor in determining the outcome of a battle. He who strikes first, strikes last, as they say. What needs to happen now is discussion and creation-- talk about new ways to make a quick-on-her-toes character or how much character resources should be spent on initiative as opposed to other key stats. This isn't just about getting a single build with the maximum possible initiative (though that would be a nice treat, too). We can ponder how to get a entire party mobilized properly and how to make the most out of going first (flat-footed targets anyone?). I'll be sticking around to update our lists, quote people and link builds, advice, etc. Let's get to it!

Table of Contents
1. Tools -- Lists of every possible way of enhancing initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543312&postcount=2)
2. Builds -- Optimized initiative in action (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543318&postcount=3)
3. Theory -- Decide what to do now that you're first (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543323&postcount=4)

Tools

To kick things off, I'll be adding the complete list of Dungeons and Dragons version 3.5 modifiers to Initiative. Note that as an ability check, initiative benefits from bonuses to such checks.

Key:X = Scales according to variable class, item, or feat investment
* = Modifiable by essentia investment or chakra binding
Feats
*Feat Name* *Bonus* *Source*

Improved Initiative +4 unnamed Player's Handbook
Blooded +2 unnamed Player's Guide to Faerun
Thug +2 unnamed Player's Guide to Faerun
Battle Hardened +2 unnamed Races of Stone
Shifter Instincts +2 unnamed Races of Eberron
Quick Reconnoiter +2 unnamed Complete Adventurer
Psycrystal Affinity Nimble +2 unnamed Expanded Psionics Handbook
Fire Heritage +1 unnamed Planar Handbook
Guerrilla Scout +1 competence Heroes of Battle
Lunatic Insight +2 morale Heroes of Horror
Yondalla's Sense +Wis to init Races of the Wild
Gestalt Anchor +2 insight (also Races of Eberron
granted to Kalashtar allies)

Guardian Spirit init reroll 2/day Complete Arcane
Danger Sense init 1/day Complete Adventurer
Markings of the Hunter roll init twice, Races of Stone
take better of two
Heroic Destiny +1d6 to d20 roll 1/day Races of Destiny
Favored of the Companions +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Knight of the Stars +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Servant of the Heavens +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Disciple of Darkness +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin
Scion of Sorrow +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin
Thrall to Demon +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin

Nimble Bones +4 for created undead Libris Mortis


Spells
*Spell Name* *Effect* *Level* *Source*

Good Hope +3 morale to ability checks Bard 3 Players Handbook
Feast of Champions +1 morale to ability checks Clr 9 Eberron
K's Skittish Nerves +5 unnamed init Wiz 1 Magic of Faerun
Elemental Familiar +2 unnamed init Wiz 3 Online (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a)
Wish Can be used to force rerolls Wiz 9 Players Handbook
Foresight Never flat-footed Drd 9/Wiz 9 Players Handbook
Anticipatory Strike Re-insert yourself in the Psion 3 Races of Destiny
initiative order
Sign Init set as if caster had Clr 1 Miniature's Handbook
rolled a natural 20
Channel the Mishtai +2 insight Wiz 2 Magic of Incarnum
Channel t. M, Greater +2 insight Wiz 6 Magic of Incarnum
Guardian Spirit +2 insight* Clr3/Wiz4 Magic of Incarnum
Guardian Spirit, Mass +2 insight* Clr7/Wiz8 Magic of Incarnum
Improvisation +1/2 CL to checks Bard 5 Complete Adventurer

Soulmelds
*Name* *Effect* *Class* *Binding Benefits*
Bluesteel Bracers +2 insight Incarnate, Soulborn Arms: Allies within 30ft gain same bonus
Lucky Dice +1 luck to ability checks Incarnate, Soulborn Hands: Allies within 30ft gain same bonus


Items *Item/Ability* *Effect* *Source*

Rod of Alertness +1 to init Dungeon Master's Guide
Pale Green Ioun Stone +1 competence to ability checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Stone of Good Luck +1 luck to ability checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Flexible Spine +4 racial to init Lords of Madness
Luck Blade Reroll a die 1/day Dungeon Master's Guide
Burning Ability +2 if held @ start of battle Eberron
Doomwarding Ability Reroll a die, limited charges Player's Guide to Faerun
Initiative Ability +2 luck to init Oriental Adventures
Eager Ability +2 unnamed Arms and Equipment Guide
Fire Grafts (X grafted) +2 times (X-1) unnamed Magic of Eberron
Intelligent Item -- +2 to checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Special Purpose power
Boots of Speed, bound +2 insight Magic of Incarnum
to Feet Chakra

Class features*Ability* *Effect* *Source

Duelist 2,8 +2, +4 unnamed Dungeon Master's Guide
Visionary Seeker 3, 7 +2, +4 unnamed Planar Handbook
Cipher Adept 3, 6, 9 +1, +2, +3 unnamed Planar Handbook
Dervish 6 +2 unnamed Complete Warrior
Warforged Fighter 1 +3 unnamed Races of Eberron
Knight of the Iron +2, +4, +6 unnamed Frostburn
Glacier 2, 5, 8 while in frostfell
Sorcerer/Wizard 1 +4 unnamed Dragon 323
(Hummingbird Familiar)
Scout 2, 11, 20 +1, +2, +3 competence Complete Adventurer
Streetfighter 1,3,5 +1, +2, +3 competence Complete Adventurer
Fleshwarper 2, 5 or 8 +4 racial bonus Lords of Madness
Shifter Druid (Sub) 4 +2 insight bonus Races of Eberron
Duskling Barbarian 1 +2* insight Magic of Incarnum
Incarnum Blade 1 +2* insight Magic of Incarnum

Nobility Domain +2 on ability checks Complete Warrior
Tattooed Monk X +2 luck to ability checks Complete Warrior
Void Disciple 7 +20 to single check Complete Divine

Iajutsu Master 2 +Cha as unnamed to init Oriental Adventures
Bayushi Deceiver 2 +Int as unnamed to init Oriental Adventures
Exemplar 8 +Int as unnamed to init Complete Adventurer
Darkrunner 3 +Int as unnamed while Lords of Madness
underground
Marshall 1 +Cha to allies' init Miniature's Handbook
Rokugan Ninja +Int as unnamed to init Online (http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf)
Dread Commando X +X to allies' init Heroes of Battle
Shade Hunter X +X daily to checks Champions of Ruin
Cosmic Descryer 7 +1 to checks/5 damage Epic Level Handbook
Elf Wizard 3 Doubles familiar bonuses Races of the Wild

Wu Jen 1 Init reroll 1/day Complete Arcane
Luck Domain d20 reroll 1/day Player's Handbook
Visionary Seeker 4 +1d6 to d20 1/day Planar Handbook
Visionary Seeker 8 d20 reroll 1/day Planar Handbook
Chaotician 5 reroll anything 1/day Planar Handbook
Fatespinner 4 reroll anything 1/day Complete Arcane
Dread Pirate 5 reroll anything 1/day Complete Adventurer
Tattooed Monk X d20 reroll 1/day Complete Warrior
Entropomancer 5 d20 reroll 1/round Complete Divine
Dragon Prophet 9 reroll check/save 1/day Magic of Eberron

Divine Oracle 10 Never surprised, act Complete Divine
normally in surprise rounds


Racial Sources*Race* *Bonus* *Source*

Shadowswyft +2 unnamed Planar Handbook
Illumian ("Uur") +1 or +2 to dex checks Races of Destiny
Killoren +2 unnamed Races of the Wild
(Aspect of the Hunter)

Chaos Gnome die reroll 1/day Races of Stone


Ways to Lower Initiative*Status/Spell/Ability* *Effect* *Source*

*Unpleasant States*
Deafened -4 to Init Player's Handbook
Shaken -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Frightened -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Panicked -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Entangled -4 to effective Dex Player's Handbook
Negative Levels -1 per negative level Dungeon Master's Guide

*Spells*
Bestow Curse -4 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Crushing Despair -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Symbol of Pain -4 to ability checks Player's Handbook

*Abilities*
Hexblade's Curse -2 to ability checks Complete Warrior
(Hexblade 1)
Curse of the Fatespurned -2 to ability checks Races of the Wild
(Luckstealer 1)
Curse of the Black Cloud -2 to ability checks Races of the Wild
(Luckstealer 7)

*Traits/Flaws*
Torpid -2 to init Unearthed Arcana
Unreactive -6 to init Unearthed Arcana

New: High-Dex Monsters (Over 21 Dex, Under 26 HD) *Name* *HD* *Dex* *Type* *Source*

Coure 2 24 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Vultivor 3 23 Outsider Fiend Folio
Guard Bat 4 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Hunting Bat 4 24 Animal Monster Manual 2
Dire Hawk 5 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Reekmurk 5 24 Ooze Fiend Folio
Avoral 7 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Mind Flayer Vampire 8 22 Undead Lords of Madness
Air Elemental, L 8 25 Elemental Monster Manual
Sunfly Swarm 9 22 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Will-o-Wisp 9 29 Aberration Monster Manual
War Bat 10 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Nimblewright 10 24 Construct Monster Manual 2
Jarilith 10 29 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Shimmerling Swarm 11 22 Fey Monster Manual 3
Alkilith 11 25 Outsider Fiend Folio
Hellwasp Swarm 12 22 Mag Beast Monster Manual
Barbed Devil 12 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Scarab Swarm 12 23 Undead Sandstorm
Cuprilach 12 24 Outsider Monster Manual
Rimefire Eidolon 12 24 Fey Frostburn
Rukarazyll 12 27 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Legendary Eagle 12 30 Animal Monster Manual 2
Kelvezu 12 31 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Shredstorm 14 22 Construct Monster Manual 3
Throne Archon 14 24 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Legendary Wolf 14 28 Animal Monster Manual 2
Death Slaad 15 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Horned Devil 15 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Cinder Swarm 16 22 Elemental Monster Manual 3
Disenchanter 16 23 Mag Beast Fiend Folio
Legendary Snake 16 24 Animal Monster Manual 2
Fire Elemental, H 16 25 Elemental Monster Manual
Spectral Lurker 16 27 Aberration Fiend Folio
Wraith, Dread 16 28 Undead Monster Manual
Bronze Serpent 16 28 Construct Monster Manual 2
Air Elemental, H 16 29 Elemental Monster Manual
Tulani 18 22 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Windghost 18 23 Aberration Monster Manual 2
Deathshrieker 18 25 Undead Monster Manual 3
Pit Fiend 18 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Odopi 20 23 Aberration Monster Manual 3
Balor 20 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Maulgoth 20 25 Aberration Fiend Folio
Prismatic Golem 20 33 Construct Monster Manual 3
Fire Elemental, Gr 21 27 Elemental Monster Manual
Air Elemental, Gr 21 31 Elemental Monster Manual
Ragewalker 22 25 Fey Monster Manual 3
Water Elemental El 24 22 Elemental Monster Manual
Fire Elemental, El 24 29 Elemental Monster Manual
Air Elemental, El 24 33 Elemental Monster Manual
Faerunian Ha-Naga 24 38 Aberration Serpent Kingdoms
Deathshrieker, Adv 25 27 Undead Monster Manual 3
Vasuthant, Horrific 25 23 Undead Monster Manual 3
Gloom 25 46 M. Humanoid Epic Level Handbook

Zeugalak 16 16 Aberration Lords of Madness
(+1d4 Dex per electric attack)

Please post to let me know if we've missed any!

Builds

That's right, submit your initiative-optimized builds and they'll show up here.

Max Initiative Record-Holder
Interested2's Int/Init Monkey (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6548307&postcount=13) with a permanent Initiative of 94

Caster Builds
Wu Jen 5/ Wild Mage 10/ Fleshwarper 2/ Fatespinner 4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LoP)
Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Visionary Seeker 3/Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1/Fleshwarper 2/Eldritch Knight 8 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LoP)

Combat Builds
Rokugan Ninja 1/Monk 2/Swashbuckler 3/Bayushi Deceiver 9/InvisibleBlade 5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5381824) (PhaedrusXY)
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed (Goliath) 3/ Duelist8/ Street Fighter 5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LordofProcrastination)

Skill-Monkey Builds
Marshal 1/Rokugan Ninja 9/Exemplar 8/Bayushi Deceiver 2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6548307&postcount=13) (Interested2)
Scout 2/ Ranger 2/ Darkrunner 3/ Dread Commando 4/ Exemplar 8 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6567579&postcount=34) (LoP)

Support Builds
Illumian Psion (Nomad) 19/ Marshal 1 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6548983&postcount=15) (DisposableHero_)

Theory

Insert your handy quips, well-thought-out-theses, or all-around advice for would-be speedsters here.

The Basics
Absolute Fundamentals and Surprise-round Tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6557487&postcount=30) (LordofProcrastination)

Quotes

Mini-Essays and/or Advice
The usefulness of Initiative: how and who (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6553526&postcount=25) (LordKiwi)

Getting the Most out of your Initiative Order
Readied Actions and Initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6554973&postcount=27) (DisposableHero_)

Good stuff. I'll add some ideas later but here are a few quick adds:

Bayushi Deceiver: Int. to Initiative, level 2 (OA)

Rokugan Ninja: Int. to Initiative, level 4 (Rokugan — 3rd party, but has attained a modicum of acceptability based on its availability as a free pdf)

Daiodji Bodyguard: Defensive Refocus, level 1 (total defense action is followed by moving up in Init. count as if you rolled a 20). Very specialized. (OA)

Eager weapon enhancement: +2 to init, even when sheathed (A&EG)

If you're a wizard, get the elemental familiar spell and turn your familiar into a tiny air elemental (Spell Here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a) which grants +2 Init (finally a use for your crappy familiar eh?)

Spells:

Moment of Prescience
Foresight

Moment gives +casterlevel to a single check

Foresight prevents you from being supprised(which sort of applies to initiative)

Pretty Stupid but: Foresight + "anticipated strike" (power ROD) means you always go first (bar gods).

Humming bird familiar = +4 initiative.

If you're counting dragon

Divine Oracle 10 gets the same ability as Foresight always on if we're going to talk about that.

:bump: very good ideas....nice thread

:D

Great job on the updates and hidden sources of Initiative that I missed in the first go-around! I've added most of them to the lists, with a few caveats and questions.

1) The Daiodji Bodyguard's Defensive Refocus ability was ommitted because it is a slight alteration of the "Refocus" initiative action which was removed in 3.5. Technically, WotC hasn't got around to fixing this PrC, so even if most of the OA material seems legit, this ability would seem awkward and out of place.

2) Where can I find the "Hummingbird Familiar" option from Dragon? Issue and page number anyone?

3) Unfortunately, Moment of Prescience doesn't seem to work on initiative checks. The spell description says that the bonus can be applied "on any single attack roll, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw." I may be off on this one, but Initiative is a Dexterity Ability Check, but not necessarily an "opposed" check. I know there aren't any specific qualifiers to differentiate the two, an opposed check generally involves the success of a single higher roll and the failure of a single lesser roll, rather than the sliding scale and multiple actors involved in the Initiative process. Of course, if there has been a ruling on this somewhere, or if someone has a convincing argument otherwise, by all means, enlighten us! An extra twentysomething on an initiative roll would be nice after all...

4) Anyone have any initiative-optimized builds in the works yet? The world record pedestal is empty and beckoning you to glory...

32 PB: 18 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Dex, 14 Cha, 10 Str, 8 Con
28 PB: 18 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Dex, 14 Cha, 8 Str, 8 Con


Race: Human Scorpion Clan
Flaw: Inattentive, Meager Fortitude
Trait: Aggressive (+2 init)

Level Class Feat(s)
1 Marshal 1 Blooded, Skill Knowledge:Use Magic Device, Quick Reconnoiter, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
2 Human Paragon 1
3 Human Paragon 2 Improved Initiative, Quick Draw
4 Human Paragon 3
5 Rokugun Ninja 1
6 Rokugun Ninja 2 Item Familiar
7 Rokugun Ninja 3
8 Rokugun Ninja 4
9 Iaijitsu Master 1 Weapon Focus(katana)
10 Iaijitsu Master 2
11 Exemplar 1
12 Exemplar 2 Way of the Scorpion
13 Exemplar 3
14 Exemplar 4
15 Exemplar 5 Speed of the Kami
16 Exemplar 6
17 Exemplar 7
18 Exemplar 8 Leadership
19 Bayushi Deceiver 1
20 Bayushi Deceiver 2

EQUIPMENT
+1 Eager Dagger (+2 init) 18000
Headband of Int +6 36000
Cloak of Charisma +6 36000
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36000
Sign, Constant (always roll a 20) 2000
Tome of Clear Thought +5 137500
Manual of Quickness of Action +4 110000
Tome of Leadership and Influence +4 110000
Belt of Giant Strength +6 36000
Kapaur's Skittish Nerves (+5), constant 2000
Flexible Spine graft, 91000
Stone of Good Luck, 20000
Pale Green Ioun Stone, 30000

Total: 664500
Left: 95500


Other things to do: With that 95,500 gp remaining, spend 1,200 of it to pay a wizard to Polymorph Any Object you into a Black Ethergaunt. The racial ability bonuses should give you a total of another +48 to init, for a total of always 167. Use Leadership to get a Bard as a cohort that can use Improvision and Good Hope for another +13, and have one of your 3rd level Wizard followers cast Channel the Mishtai for another +2. 182 init, always... Plus he's actually playable at all 20 levels, *and* can pull the abusive UMD tricks.

Correction for the tools post: Iaijutsu master gets Lightning Blade (charisma to init) at level 2 not level 5

Another tool: Anticipatory Strike Psionic Power from races of destiny. It doesn't enhance your initiative but lets you take you turn out of initiative order.

Another Tool: Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble Personality) +2 unnamed bonus

A support build:

Temporal Distortion
Illumian Pison (Nomad) 19/Marshall 1

Feats:
Improved Initiative (1), Psicrystal Affinity (Psion1), Psycrystal Containment (3), Psionic Meditation (Psion5), Quicken Power (6), Twin Power (9), Extraordinary Concentration (12), 2 Psionic Feats, 2 Normal Feats

Class Features/Special Abilities:
Motivate Dexterity, Nimble Psicrystal Personality, Uur Sigil, (if your DM allows the krau sigil to transfer to psionics you can take this and use your dexterity to determine bonus power points, raise your manifester level to your character level throughout the progression, and let you further focus the character)

Psionic Powers:
Synchronicity, Anticipatory Strike, Telekinetic Maneuver, Dimension Swap, Energy Wall, Solicit Psicrystal, Time Hop, Dimension Slide

Initiative:
Dexterity Modifier + Charisma Modifier (Motivate Charisma) +2 (Uur Sigil) +4 (Improved Initiative) +2 (Nimble Psicrystal)
Total – 8 + dex + cha

The tricks:
This character uses a high initiative modifier and anticipatory strike to take his turn before his opponents, at which point he uses Quicken or normal augmented synchronicities to set up contingent readied actions to disrupt any game plan of his opposition. Effectively the character is based around taking readied actions at any point in time and using them to destroy any tactics of his opponent. The mechanics of this mayhem are:
Dimension Swap - instantaneously placing any party member in the right spot at the right time, for full attacks without closing first, superior flanking prospects, massive usage of feats that generate attacks of opportunity like karmic strike and hold the line, massive use of teleport trigger abilities like sun school or shadow pounce
Telekinetic Maneuver - disrupt spellcasting with grapples, disarm or trip an opponent at a critical juncture, this is supplemented with extraordinary concentration and solicit psicrystal to let these effects linger while still providing control of the battle field
Energy Wall - to carve up the battlefield and punish opponents that try to disrupt your tactics with mobility, responding to an attempt to cast a spell with two readied synchronous powers, the first and energy wall and the second a telekinetic grapple will put an opposing wizard in a world of hurt, or a ring energy wall that forces a charging opponent to pass through it twice before they reach your ally
Time Hop - as if removing people from the time stream needs an explanation :D

Did anyone mention Skittish Nerves? Its a first level spell in the player guide to Faerun.

+4 to init

If a 12th level Druid wishes to have a crazy-high Initiative, all she has to do is wildshape into a Legendary Eagle (MM2). Presto - an instant +10 to Initiative in addition to the other wonderful benefits accrued from having a DEX of 30, +4 to Nat. Armor, +1 to Size-based Armor, 100' Fly Mode, +12 to daylight spotting, and guaranteed touch attack success (racial Weapon Finesse applied to natural attacks) for her appropriate spells.

The beauty of this is +10 is that she doesn't need to invest in any additional gear, feats, or spells to accomplish this. It's already built into her class ability set.

Snow Savant highlights a key source of precious, precious Dexterity: alternate forms. So, what we need for the Initiative Compilation is a list of high-dexterity creatures from which initiative-optimized characters can pick and choose the form that suits them most.

I'm scanning the 3.5 Polymorph thread for high-dex monsters, but to make this more of a group effort (and so that it gets finished before version 4.75 gets released ;) ), could ye well-versed druid-lovers and transmogrofists post suggestions from the teeming multitudes of lovable monsters?

For the sake of simplicity, let's classify a "High-Dex" monster as one with 22 or greater Dexterity, a number which would normally take moderate resources to achieve otherwise as a character. (Source book, dex score, HD and monster type would all be appreciated)

As I just posted in another thread, but on a different subject, the Kelvezu Demon (MM2) is a prime monster type for folks to polymorph, draconic polymorph, or shapechange into for a number of mechanical reasons.

One being, a DEX of 31, which is hard to beat in a medium-sized bipedal, speaking form that allows to wear all your gear without modification.

Note: Kelvezu's are outsiders. Hence, to poly into one, you need to be a Tiefling, Neraphim, Aasimar, or Otherworldly feat-wielder to make this work.

DEX 31 = +10 Initiative.

This is an important piece that's been largely missing from the CO board's library for a long time. Kudos to you for fixing the lack.

So is no one else doubled over in laughter at the fact that a guy named Lord of Procrastination has created the ultimate thread about being quick to act? Man, I love Irony...and Alanis Morrisette. :D

-=Tweedledope=-

Absolutely nothing beats out Gloom for Dexterity, not even Elder Air Elementals: 46 DEX. In addition, its combat stats are amazing - 32 STR and 28 CON, and it does 13d6 SA. While it's 25HD, it is awesomely powerful with a Sneak Attack/TWF build, especially since it gets +20 to MS checks, among other things.

For rogues with the ability to get a 25HD Shapechange, this should be considered the ultimate in sneak attack alternate forms.

Nice thread! I'd say Iaijutsu Focus is of the best things to do with a super high initiative score, along with sneak attack.

Here is an Int-based "monk" build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5381824&postcount=723) that I made a while back. It certainly could be more optimized for Initiative, but with a +38 it's pretty good "right out of the box". It uses the Rokugan book heavily, and other sources like Dragon Magazine that alot of other people might now allow (but which I use ;) ). He would mainly fall into the Combat category, but has a huge number of skill points and a wide array of class skills. Unfortunately, he has no classes with the Rogue trapfinding ability...

I plan to use him as an NPC in a game I run, eventually. I think I might use Caelic's Boogeyman (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=313633) as a villain, and have this guy be his "archenemy". A wandering "monk" who poses as a beggar, and has been trying to track down the Boogeyman and eliminate him for some time. He'll approach the PCs and "test" them to see if he thinks they might be up to the task.

Although Master Po isn't really a "good guy" and has certainly done some morally questionable things in his past, his discovery of the Boogeyman has made him turn from his own selfish pursuits and devote himself to ridding the world of such an abomination. He is still somewhat morally ambiguous, and willing to use extreme measures to catch and defeat his foe.

(Yes, I know the Boogeyman would eat this guy for lunch. That's why Master Po has been following and tracking the Boogeyman, but hasn't been able to destroy him yet. He is wise enough to know he can't do it alone... perhaps after losing to him and having to remain in hiding afterwards to escape retribution.)

Thanks for the monster suggestions, Snow Savant and Rashomon. Normally, I'd try to keep the lists strictly 3.5, but Gloom's HD-to-Dex ratio is just so fun, I'm throwing it in for posterity. Extra thanks for Phaedrus' well-rounded build-- more OA hijinks for everyone.

Well, after an extensive search of every creature-bearing 3.x book in my possession, a new tool-list has been added: High-Dex Monsters (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543312&postcount=2).

As always, let me know if I've missed any!

Good start on the thread. I notice you have lots of getting a high initiative and not a lot about why you'd want one, so to help with that here's my opinion of when initiative is important, and why.

The advantage of having the intiative starts of rather fantastically. If you win, by your second action you've acted twice as much as your opponent (you act, they act and you act again). At the end of your third action this idecreases to a 50% increase in number of actions taken, and so on slowly reducing to a negligable amount. The second advantage is catching your foes flat footed, although again, this is only useful for a short time.

This means initiative is useful for sneak attacking rogues/ninja, blaster type wizard/sorcerer/psions and high damage fighters/barbarians. If you rely on offense as your best defence, dealing massive damage quickly, then initiative is for you.

On the other hand, skirmishing, ranged or defensive characters will not get much out of a high initiative. These characters focus on long protracted fights, wearing there enemy down slowly. It's probably better to focus resources elsewhere.

EDIT: As DisposableHero points out below Initiative is useful for characters that NEED to be able to delay there action to counter an opponent in round 1. This includes Mageslayers and Counterspeller, amoung other things.

Lord Kiwi,

Quick Reconnitoir (CAdv) gives +2 to init (aswell as spot and listen, plus do both as a free action)

@Interested2- Isn't Blooded a regional feat from faerun? How can a rokugan ninja get blooded?

A note about initiative theory:

Readied actions. It could be as simple as firing on an enemy wizard when they try to cast, or as complex as a chain of metapsioniced synchronicities like the build I posted earlier, but winning initiative doesn't have to be about acting first, it can also be about acting when it is best to do so. Any disruptive measure from a simple trip to an archmage's mastery of counterspelling, if well timed can throw a wrench into even the best laid plans. The catch is to effectively ready an action you have to win initiative. It may not always be about the extra actions as lord kiwi suggests, but about timing your actions to get the most out of them.

A note about initiative theory:

Readied actions. It could be as simple as firing on an enemy wizard when they try to cast, or as complex as a chain of metapsioniced synchronicities like the build I posted earlier, but winning initiative doesn't have to be about acting first, it can also be about acting when it is best to do so. Any disruptive measure from a simple trip to an archmage's mastery of counterspelling, if well timed can throw a wrench into even the best laid plans. The catch is to effectively ready an action you have to win initiative. It may not always be about the extra actions as lord kiwi suggests, but about timing your actions to get the most out of them.
This only really applies to round 1 since you can delay your action into the next round in 3.5 and set your initiative to whatever you wish.
Still, I can see initiative being useful for counterspell/mageslayer type character that block their opponents, you don't want to be lax in round 1 when a well aimed finger of death could be disastrous or if it means someone can timestop to buff before you can stop them.

Since my post's now listed in the first post I'll go down and change it a bit so it isn't misleading.

Lord Kiwi,

@Interested2- Isn't Blooded a regional feat from faerun? How can a rokugan ninja get blooded?I can't really answer for him, but I can tell you why it would be appropriate in a game I DM. There is a region much like Rokugan in Forgotten Realms. It is called Kara Tur, and in the FR game I DM, which is set in the Unapproachable East, I just use the Rokugan material for Kara Tur, since I don't own any of the original Kara Tur stuff and it hasn't been updated to 3.X anyway. So in the Unapproachable East region, there is a mix of Rokugani stuff and normal Forgotten Realms stuff. A ninja with the Blooded feat could easily come from there in my game.

Edit: Besides, people often use mixed genre stuff on the C.O. boards. As I've demonstrated above, alot of games take "setting specific" stuff and adopt it to their own homebrewed worlds or modified versions of "official" settings. So it's not entirely unrealistic to make a character that uses a mixture of stuff from different settings. It just depends on the specific DM and campaign.

Taking a step back: The Fundamentals

Definitions and Mechanics
Initiative is a Dexterity check made at the very start of combat which determines the order of character turns. To be specific, initiative is rolled when a character becomes aware of combat, as determined by circumstances specific to the game, and may require awareness-producing checks such as Listen or Spot. The initiative roll may be modified by a variety of character features, many of which stack due to the unnamed nature of the bonus.

The first and near-universal benefit of having an initiative roll higher than one's opponents is that opponents who have yet to act are typically flat-footed. Opponents who are flat-footed lose their Dexterity bonus to AC. The loss of the Dexterity bonus to AC is the prerequisite condition for a variety of class features, including Sneak Attack (Rogue etc) and Sudden Strike (Ninja etc). The Uncanny Dodge ability granted by several classes and prestige classes (notably Rogue and Barbarian) negates the flat-footed effect.

While initiative order is generally absolute in terms of the order of action, there are (as always) a few exceptions. Immediate actions can enable turn-hopping interruptions, at measly cost of one's "swift" action in the next turn. Anticipatory Strike, a psionic power, also allows limited rearrangements.

Essential Tactics

0) Pre-emptive Initiative: The Surprise Round

When circumstances or careful planning conspire to result in a surprise round, it means that only those aware of combat (hopefully the players) are capable of rolling initiative and taking action. Obtaining a surprise round is a character and in-game issue, but once in a surprise round, initiative optimization can take place.

In the case where one's party is on the offensive (i.e. mostly aware of combat and participating in the attack), canny players can work to maximize the amount of action possible against flat-footed foes by casting spells or using abilities to lower opponent's upcoming initiative checks. Easy options include fear-inducing abilities (which often don't impede your attack actions), anything that causes deafening or entangling (even temporary), and for dual-threat, negative levels. If a surprise-enabled support character is able to significantly hinder foes' upcoming initiative rolls, it could effectively mean a whole extra round of sneak-attacking or full-attack-unloading before any sort of reaction occurs.

Conversely, if on the defensive, a lone support character aware during a surprise round has the opportunity to enhance his/her friends' initiative rolls. The practicality of this tactic depends, as usual, on the level of his/her allies' initiative optimization (i.e. do they need the help), and spell availability. The Bardic favorite, Good Hope is a solid bet for the whole party, while Kauper's Skittish Nerves should probably be reserved for circumstances when a single character's involvement in the battle is exceedingly time-sensitive.

(More to come later, this is just the start. Comments welcome)

Haven't seen it mentioned but Warlock with constant foresight.

Alright, the Theory (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543323&postcount=4) section has been updated to include my short essay on Absolute Fundamentals and Surprise-round Tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6557487&postcount=30) and DisposableHero_'s advice on Readied Actions and Initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6554973&postcount=27). Also, thanks to cvazi and canadianguy for their catches-- Quick Reconnoiter and Dark Foresight are resting safely in the Tools (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543312&postcount=2) section.

An outstanding point-- where can one find the Hummingbird Familiar option? Dragon was mentioned, but which issue?

A few new builds to keep things rolling along:

Dwarves can be Fast, Too
Style: Flexible Dex/Int combat-type
Classes: Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed (Goliath) 3/ Duelist8/ Street Fighter 5
Race: Okay, not just Dwarf. Any race that grants Darkvision (I suggest Lesser Drow)
Key Feats: Markings of the Hunter, Improved Initiative, Battle Hardened (if Dwarf), Blooded
Salient Features: BAB +19, +13 to Init before Dex and items, Two initiative rolls every time, Uncanny Dodge

Gish it Up
Style: Fighter-mage with a few initiative-boosting tweaks
Classes: Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Visionary Seeker 3/Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1/Fleshwarper 2/Eldritch Knight 8
Race: Any
Key Feats: Improved Initiative, Blooded
Salient Features: Wizard Caster Level 17, BAB +16, +12 pre-Dex/item Init bonuses

The Lucky Mage
Style: Primary Caster with more rerolls than a shotgun-armed tycoon in Vegas
Classes: Wu Jen 5/ Wild Mage 10/ Fleshwarper 2/ Fatespinner 4
Race: Any, though Human eases skill requirements and opens "Heroic Destiny"
Key Feats: Danger Sense, Guardian Spirit, Improved Initiative, (Heroic Destiny)
Salient Features: Wu-Jen Caster Level 19, Init reroll 4/day, +8 pre-dex/item initiative bonus.

A quick build. No pun intended.

Stealth, Survival and Speed, Oh My
Style: High mobility, high-stealth, high-awareness-skilled warrior
Classes: Scout 2/ Ranger 2/ Darkrunner 3/ Dread Commando 4/ Exemplar 8
Race: Anything that grants Darkvision, or substitute Dread Commando levels for a Darkvision-PrC
Key Feats: Quick Reconnoiter, Improved Initiative, Blooded
Salient Features: Very High Skills, +13+Int (+Int again if underground) to Initiative (all pre-Dex/items), top-notch team-enhancing abilities

Flexible Spine: This invasive graft replaces the creature’s
spine, including the spinal cord, with a much more fl exible
and effi cient set of nerves and vertebrae. The graft grants a
+4 racial bonus on initiative checks, Balance checks, Escape
Artist checks, and Tumble checks.
Graft Flesh (silthilar), regenerate; Price 91,000 gp.
Silthilar graft from Lords of Madness if you can't tell

Thanks, AlienFromBeyond, Flexible Spine is sitting pretty up in the Items part of the Tools Section (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6543312&postcount=2)

The clarion call for more Theory posts still rings loudly...

1. Zeugalak (LoM, pg 171), gains 1d4 dex and is able to teleport as a free action every time it takes electricity damage. 16hd.

2. Where can you download that free Rokugan pdf?

2. Where can you download that free Rokugan pdf?Here (http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf), but it is supposed to have a good Reflex save, not Will save.

Great! The Zeugalak has been added as a special honorable-mention at the bottom of the High-Dex Monsters list in the Tools Section.

For ease of reading (and finding), the Rokugan Ninja is linked right next to its ability. Specifically, it is in the *Source* column of the Class Features section, just scroll over a bit.

Aha! Another bonus found: "Gestalt Anchor," a psionic feat from Races of Eberron, which grants a +2 insight bonus to oneself and one's kalashtar allies.

What with Psycrystal Affinity and Anticapatory Strike, I'm surprised no psionic builds have emerged from the psi-fans on this board yet. All in due time, I suppose.

The Elven Wizard substitution level doubles bonus from familiars, so if you have the +2 init air elemental that gets boosted up to +4

I'm not sure if you can exactly consider init to be an opposed roll, but if so, Moment of Prescience as well as the Conflict? domain granted power would be useful.

Thanks, allenchan. The Elf Wizard's bonus is officially added. Now, if only someone knew where that Hummingbird Familiar option was hiding, the synergy could be killer. Any luck, Dragon-readers?

Sithobi1, I'm fairly certain that Initiative is not an "opposed check" in the formal D&D use of the phrase, as was discussed on the last page here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6546974&postcount=12). Of course, if there's evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it.

Dragon 323, Page 98, Class Acts for Wizards.

Excellent! Thank you, Sithobi1. The Hummingbird Familiar is certainly an excellent option, coming in at a whopping +4 unnamed bonus. Mix in the 3rd-level Elf Wizard substitution to double familiar bonuses, and somebody's spellcaster is going to be scorching-fast...

Don't mind me, just a little update: A Barnes-and-Noble browsing has revealed that the DMG II contains an item which adds an elusive +2 insight bonus to initiative. Folks out there picking up the latest books, drop a post if you run across anything new!

Due to the cyclical nature of the dnd initiative system, other than the surprise round is there any reason to desire a high initiative? Perhaps for readied actions? Ive not seen one of paramount importance come up that would entail me to want to play a character based around it, however there any many easily incorporated tidbits here to give characters an edge here without sacrificing much of anything, should I see a reason. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I would suggest the last spell in the Destiny Domain, as well as for Readied actions the Ancestor Feat "Adventurous Explorer".

Lacking access to a few of the newer books, and wanting to keep this Compendium up-to-date, I'd like to ask the general CO boards populace if there have been any initiative-relevant mechanical options added in the last two months.

Feats, class abilities, creatures, spells, items, anything!

First thing that pops to mind - the Bluesteel Bracers soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum grants a +2 insight bonus to initiative. If they are bound to the arms chakra, they grant this bonus to all allies with 30ft.

Bump for save-age.

Update time! I've added a bunch of things from Magic of Eberron and Magic of Incarnum. I haven't had time to run a fine-toothed comb through the other books coming out recently, so any other initiative-boosting catches would be helpful!

Recent Additions:
Bluesteel Bracers
Lucky Dice
Fire Grafts
The Incarnum Blade
Dragon Prophet
Duskling Barbarian Racial Substition ability
Channel the Mistai (and Greater CtM)
Guardian Spirit (and Mass GS)

Also, any new high-Dex monsters for Polymorphing/Wildshaping/Metamorphing would be likewise appreciated.

I quite like this:

Catfolk1/Scout5/Samurai (OA)4/Exemplar8/Iaijutsu Master2

Key items: flexible spine, slippers of battledance
Key feats: catfolk pounce, improved initiative

Take your time following your enemy stealthily (taking 10 on hide & move). Pick out the leader. Charge up to 120'. Tumble through enemies squares (taking 10 on tumble and with +9 from items alone). Full attack the leader with charisma to attack and damage, iaijutsu strike on the first attack, +2d6 skirmish damage on each attack. Win initiative (d20+9+dex+cha+int+additional feats+items), tumble out. Yay!

A.

DisposableHero_, How do you get "Psycrystal Containment (Psion1)" when it has a prereq of manifester 3?

I don't know much about psionics, but could a Psi Artificer accomplish all the same? Perhaps with a level of Psion to pick up the psicrystal.. But would you need it, since you don't actually need any power points?


Nice thread LoP, you da man.

Thanks, jaerad. This thread may not be my most well-known project, but I hope it's useful at very least.

Nice skirmisher, AngelLemmingThief. Good combination of tactics to take advantage of the Initiative-win.

Back to business: when flipping through Heroes of Horror in a store, I remember coming across a feat which granted a modest bonus on initiative. Anyone with the book care to confirm and provide the details?

Thanks LoP :)

It may be Lunatic Insight you spied, it provides +2 morale bonus to init, plus untrained use of knowledge() skills.

DisposableHero_, How do you get "Psycrystal Containment (Psion1)" when it has a prereq of manifester 3?

I don't know much about psionics, but could a Psi Artificer accomplish all the same? Perhaps with a level of Psion to pick up the psicrystal.. But would you need it, since you don't actually need any power points?I don't, its been fixed :D

Also fixed the tactics section of that post to reflect the proper rulings on synchronicity and readied actions.

A psionic artificer could pull off the same trick with a simple dorje of synchronicity.

Dirty Trick Worthy Stunt

You can use synchronicity to punch a microscopic whole in the initiative order. Readied actions set your initiative count to the count on which you took the action. After a readied action is resolved the initiative count proceeds from the initiative of the user of the readied action. Multiple entities acting on the same initiative act in order of their initative bonus.

If you have a manifester use a synchronicity, and share the power with his or her psicrystal, then immediately use the readied action, which is followed by the psicrystal taking its readied action before the manifester uses their remaining move and/or swift actions then you procceed directly from the psion's turn to the crystal's turn and then on from there. This means, that any entity on the same initative count as the psion and crystal, with an initiative bonus less than that of the psion and more than that of the crystal, will have their turn skipped.

How do we get the psion, the target of the turn highjack and the crystal all on the same initiative count? Enter Anticipatory Strike, allowing a character to have perfect temporal targeting for their turn-jacking attack, as the augment sets your initiative to the count where you use the strike. Manifest in the middle of your target's turn, share with your psicrystal, manifest synchronicity with the gained actions, proceed as above, jack their turn.

In this fashion you then only need to optimize the psion's initiative, and deoptimize the psicrystal's initiative, in order to widen the size of the turn-jacking window, so as to effect more potential targets.

Nifty stunt, DisposableHero_.
Sneaky, underhanded use of the game's most monstrously broken power... ...I approve!

Granted, it's entirely impractical for repeated use, but I'd wager that a reasonably optimization-appreciative DM wouldn't mind seeing it put to use for one spectacular TBBEGKO. Since the prerequisites for character investment are minimal, it wouldn't even be much of a loss to an enterprising character to have it nefed after a single use.

I didn't have time to carefully read through the whole thread, but I think you forgot about one nice Init booster:

Improvisation, Brd 5, Complete Adventurer
At caster level 20, it gives you a nice +10 init.
But if you have a staff of improvisation and optimized UMD...

A simple not optimized example: (assuming you get 10 on checks)
23ranks, +7 Cha = +30 UMD
Activate Staff, simluated CL 20, +10 bonus
Activate Staff, with the +10 bonus, simulated CL 30, +15 bonus
Activate Staff, with the +15 bonus, simulated CL 35, +17 bonus

But then, take the current UMD World Record build: (it was +227, right?)
Activate Staff, simulated CL 217, +108 bonus
Activate Staff, with the +108 bonus, simulated CL 325, +162 bonus
Activate Staff, with the +162 bonus, simulated CL 379, +189 bonus
Activate Staff, with the +189 bonus, simulated CL 406, +203 bonus
and couple of times more...
but who needs more than +203 initiative?

Ah, that's a good one to remember, Harry. I won't wander into the dangerous ground of debating the whole "Staff/UMD/CL" issue, but if Improvisation provides an Initiative bonus, it belongs in this compilation!

Another thing, but an Epic one.
Cosmic Descryer prc from ELH, has Cosmic Connection ability, that gives Cosmic bonuses on init checks.

Duly noted and added.

Combined with the now-classic "Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity + Bucket of Water" combination, the Cosmic Descryer presents a unique opportunity for functionally limitless Initiative bonuses in the Epic context.

Thought I'd hand it over.

Dragon 323
pg. 98
Hummingbird familiar

Unearthed Arcana
pg. 87
Aggressive
This traits - -1 AC, +2 Initiative



Not sure about this one.

Eberron Campaign Setting
pg. 53
Flensing Strike

Says it causes a -4 penalty on attacks, checks, and saves for 1 minute.


Not direct, but also in Eberron Campaign Setting
pg.54
Haunting Melody

Causes target to be Shaken, creating an indirect -2 to initiative.

Missing Feats.

Oriental Adventures

Gifted General - +2 Initiative and +1 Fortitude.
Warrior Instinct - +2 Initiative and Spot checks


Only ones I did not see in this thread so far.


Brand X
Generic GM

Dragon Shaman (PHBII) have an aura which gives bonus to Initiative equal to the Dragon Shaman's aura bonus (+1 to +5)

Nerve Skitter from SpC (basicly the same as the similarly named spell). Shock and Awe also from SpC (-10 penalty to init of flat footed opponents when cast in surprise round).