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BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

by John Sullivan posted at 2006-12-15 15:51 last modified 2007-02-21 16:54 Copyright © 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are permitted worldwide, without royalty, in any medium, provided this notice is preserved.

Boston, MA—December 15, 2006—The Free Software Foundation (FSF) today launched BadVista.org, a campaign with a twofold mission of exposing the harms inflicted on computer users by the new Microsoft Windows Vista and promoting free software alternatives that respect users' security and privacy rights.

“Vista is an upsell masquerading as an upgrade. It is an overall regression when you look at the most important aspect of owning and using a computer: your control over what it does. Obviously MS Windows is already proprietary and very restrictive, and well worth rejecting. But the new 'features' in Vista are a Trojan Horse to smuggle in even more restrictions. We'll be focusing attention on detailing how they work, how to resist them, and why people should care”, said FSF program administrator John Sullivan.

The campaign will organize supporters into effective and unusual actions drawing attention to this daylight theft of computer users' rights, aggregate news stories cutting through the Vista marketing propaganda, and provide a user-friendly gateway to the adoption of free software operating systems like gNewSense (http://www.gnewsense.org) and Ututo (http://www.ututo.org).

Peter Brown, executive director of the FSF said, “Whilst Microsoft embarks upon its largest ever product launch, its marketing dollars will be spent in an effort to fool the media and user community about the goals of Vista. Our campaign will ask the important questions. Can you set yourself or your company free? Can you ever be free from Microsoft? As with our campaign against Digital Restrictions Management, we aim to demonstrate that technologists can be social activists, because we know the harm that Vista will cause”.

Among other harms, BadVista.org will focus on the danger posed by Treacherous Computing in Vista. Commonly called Trusted Computing in the industry, it is an attempt to turn computers from machines controlled by their user into machines that monitor their user and refuse to operate in ways that manufacturers don't authorize.

Supporters can sign up to receive more information and participate in the campaign at http://badvista.org.


The Free Software Foundation, founded in 1985, is dedicated to promoting computer users' right to use, study, copy, modify, and redistribute computer programs. The FSF promotes the development and use of free (as in freedom) software—particularly the GNU operating system and its GNU/Linux variants— and free documentation for free software. The FSF also helps to spread awareness of the ethical and political issues of freedom in the use of software. Their Web site, located at www.fsf.org, is an important source of information about GNU/Linux. Donations to support their work can be made at http://donate.fsf.org. They are headquartered in Boston, MA, USA.

Press Contact: For more information about this announcement or to schedule an interview, please contact Peter Brown or John Sullivan at +1-617-542-5942 or <pr@fsf.org>.

(This story is on digg.)

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Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by Anonymous User at 2006-12-15 18:50
I think it's great that FSF is trying to let people know about some of the DRM garbage in Vista. But what this should be about is ugly "features," not a general Vista-bashing. OS's are not exciting, they're functional. Because the goal isn't to kill Windows, it's to kill DRM malware and anti-consumer practices, in all places whatsoever. That's Windows Vista, that's Mac OS. And I would say nothing would be more convincing than bad publicity, but can we please stick to the specific problem at hand?

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by dbowles at 2006-12-15 22:30
i don't think that anyone is trying to argue that microsoft has no right to charge for their product. of course they do. the problem is that they charge you for a product and then regulate how you use it.

for example, when you buy new tennis shoes, nike doesn't make you sign an agreement allowing you to wear the shoes, but not allowing you to kill a bug with them if they're not on your feet.

in the same way, when you buy a car, the dealer does not tell you who is allowed to ride in it or where you can take them.

the problem is that after buying vista (or even xp, for that matter) you still don't "own" it. you are in essence paying for permission to use it on your computer.

again, of course microsoft has the "right" to do this, but does that make it correct? the people at the fsf do not think so. neither do i. when i pay the money to "buy" a copy of the os, i think i should be allowed to do with it what i will. i fail to see how it is really any of microsoft's business what i do with it after i buy it, so long as i'm not stealing or doing anything illegal.

of course, i'm always open to the idea that i'm completely wrong.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-16 03:42
Bad Vista just about says it all.

Now we need to say it to all.

Once again I'll send out my bi monthly "heads up" email to all my non geek friends, and now I'll have a place to point them at.

Way to go FSF.

My email auto signature now has a new bottom line:

Area66
GNU/Linux is the future
Join the FSF: http://www.fsf.org
Get the Real Facts: http://BadVista.org

(FSF member number, etc. removed from email sig for this post)

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by questron at 2006-12-16 04:04
Sorry but what are you doing here? I thought we are talking about software, about bits and bytes and whatever? This sounds more like a religious discussion!

I don't think that it is the right way to convince people by saying how bad the others and their products are, I think that the right way would be to tell why your alternatives are better.

The people reading a blog like this are those who know what software they are using and they all know why, no matter if they use free or proprietary. The people you want to reach want simple, user-friendly software, colorful icons and everything working out of the box. Put more effort in creating good software for the masses and less in religious discussions and you won't need blogs like this anymore.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-16 04:35
"Put more effort in creating good software for the masses and less in religious discussions and you won't need blogs like this anymore."

A philosophy is not a religion, it's a viewpoint.

In this case it's the view point that DRM and Treacherous computing are bad.

Bad Vista.

O.E.D.

The "it's a religious war" is an attempt at a sort of reversed use of Goodwin's Law. Instead of invoking one inane comparison, you invoke another, just as inane.

I wouldn't count on it working here, the average reader is no doubt sharp enough to recognize a troll attempt to poison the well.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by In-Cider at 2006-12-16 04:45
I think this is a badly thought out campaign. I guess the obvious question is, why Vista? There is no doubt that OS X also contains DRM and, indeed, uses closed-source code to stop you installing the software on another non-Apple piece of hardware.

Further to that, you seem to be linking to opinion pieces by reknowned Anti-Microsoft commentators such as Vaughan-Nichols, which gives the whole campaign the stench of FUD.

In my opinion, trying to go after attacking products as opposed to ideals they disagree with, is a new low for the FSF.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-16 05:16
"In my opinion, trying to go after attacking products as opposed to ideals they disagree with, is a new low for the FSF."

Exactly how does one critique a product that is, simply put, the embodiment of things that the FSF has long opposed, without critiquing the product?

Yes there are many operating systems that contain, use, or otherwise are counter to the FSF position on DRM and Treacherous Computing.

The greatest threat to the end user, however, comes from the same place that is also the largest threat to the freedoms the FSF are attempting to protect. Yes, obviously that is Microsoft, and specifically Vista.

You must start somewhere and starting with the largest offender is the usual method.

The virtual monopoly held by Microsoft is why they are front and center in this issue.

And that's my opine. I have nothing to do with the FSF other then being a member - and agreeing with the philosophy. I don't set policy (or have any more input then any one that wants to voice an opinion).

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by In-Cider at 2006-12-16 06:00
"Exactly how does one critique a product that is, simply put, the embodiment of things that the FSF has long opposed, without critiquing the product?"

It is not the embodiment of everything the FSF has long opposed. There are certainly features within Vista which implement the likes of DRM and Trustworthy Computing. However, it should be counterpointed with the fact there are features in Vista which are generally good for the average user.

However, the greater point is, this site attacks Vista on aspects that have absolutely nothing to do with what the FSF is about. Look at the news stories linked. What on earth does Vista's incompatibilities with SQL Server have to do with anything the FSF espouses? What does the price of computer components have to do with the FSF?

The answer is nothing.

The FSF has a real place, but I fear it is cheapening itself to becoming a ranting Anti-Microsoft organisation with a campaign like this.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-16 06:52
"It is not the embodiment of everything the FSF has long opposed"

I said "the embodiment of things that the FSF has long opposed"

Other sites have other things they oppose in Vista, I haven't seen anything on THIS site that deviates from the well known FSF philosophy.

"Look at the news stories linked."

Would you be happy if a link was provided to microsoft.com? A bit pointless I would think, but other then being pointless, I doubt anyone would object to such a link.

I don't think this is a "war of links", or even a site that needs balance in links... is that even possible? Or desirable?

It is, I think, a site intended to provide a locus for exposing people to concepts they may never have even heard about.

And what better time to do that then while Microsoft is attempting to push a massive bunch of "Give us more money and power over you" at the end user?

Seems not only reasonable, but also timely to me.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-16 07:17
"Open Source is much more mature regarding these matters. The FSF continues to isolate itself from the rest of the open source community."

I'm always slightly puzzled when I hear this sort of argument. I am a rather strong proponent of "Open Source" myself... so as a member of that community also, are you speaking for me?

I can extend myself to see the validity of Closed Source, Open Source, and Free Software without any great effort.

Then I get to pick what I want (100% Microsoft free for several years now, and proud of it) - but it remains a choice. My choice.

The only way to protect the ability to have a choice is to protect the existence of the very things that I'm choosing between.

And I simply would not trust Microsoft to protect my ability to chose something other then Microsoft.

The FSF would protect my freedoms, and has. You know the FSF has an extensive track record, and so does Microsoft... ask your self which you want to trust, then do that - you have a choice.

And you can thank the FSF for having a choice at all.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by oherold at 2006-12-16 11:27
>I don't think that it is the right way to convince people by saying how bad the others and their products are, I think that the right way would be to tell why your alternatives are better.

There is no "other product". There is a commercial product that lures people in a non-free way of thinking, with no way out if they begin "to see". And on the other side, there is an alternative, an alternative way of thinking.
If you abstract free software to gratis software - there is no place for you in this community. If you think of "free" it's some kind of "religion", but it's for good and remember it's really free. Remember, free choice :-)

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by chronoss at 2006-12-16 11:28
I listen to the negative comments and not only wonder if they are troll like in nature but microsoft friends.

Yes, thats you. XP is bad enough, I do not understand where the debate is however. My own research into linux versus XP for instance yielded XP being a complete failure versus linux.
take the longest uptimes of xp i had ( running ugh apache webserver ) and mandrake 10.1 (with the 2.4 kernal)
XP 2 weeks, mandrake 8 months ( offed due to a masive powerfailure province wide )
One note: the linux box did it with half the memmory, and was using a higher percentage of ram also.

now i hear nothing but trouble from people that are trying vista. religious what. its a fact, its another windows ME. Reasons i suspect are that like windows ME, htey actually tried to make a real change then realized they can't code, and scrambled to patch up what they had.

Nothing new really, just more buggy more DRMed more treacherous computing.

I will be giving madrivas new 2007 a try and when i get time the latest debian release too. (the 14+ cds is a bit much even for high speed LOL)

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by jeeves at 2006-12-16 12:00
The one thing this site lacks is a good design!

For those who would complain: this campaign is probably a result of Microsoft directly threatening Free software. Seems Ballmer has annoyed some people by claiming 'Linux' owes Microsoft money.

If he wants to lie, spreading FUD about GNU/Linux, then the FSF is welcome to spread some home-truths about Microsoft's software.

Many people seem confused about the issues: Vista has some 'features' that are simply scary, and aimed at ensuring no-one can move away from Microsoft software. Read-up on Trusted Computing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing ).

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by birdy27 at 2006-12-17 07:13
I'm not sure wether this campaing can archieve the right thig:

Attracting negative attention to something still attracts attentions towards Vista.

You can archive more if you attract teh attention that you want to attract attention to. You still can then compare that (e.g. Unix based OSes) to Vista or even better "next generation Windows product.

What you're doing now is a "Hey Vista is here campaign". You inform people and the "I can live with that" factor let's them buy Vista.
And in a way you made them to.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by err at 2006-12-17 11:50
This site is a bad idea.

You guys are entirely missing the point with this entire site. You cannot get people away from Microsoft by talking about "computer freedoms." Users don't care about "computer freedoms." You can only get at them by talking about features and the benefits of switching in terms they will understand. Talk about why Linux is easier to use, not more "free." (The problem is--and I've been using Linux exclusively save for games for five years or so--that Linux isn't easier to use in a lot of ways...)

For that matter, why are you recommending gNewSense, a distribution with next to no penetration? Just because it was Made Here doesn't make it as user-friendly as Redhat or Ubuntu.


I'd like to see Vista sink, but the FSF needs to focus on things users care about, not what the FSF cares about. If I tell someone that Vista's bad because it controls what they can do with their computer, you know what their entire response is?

"So what?"

You have to talk about things people care about and, as sick as it sounds, people don't care about their freedoms.

And a factual point: you do realize that you can entirely ignore Vista's DRM, so long as you just don't buy DRM-enabled music? My MP3 files still play just fine. LAME runs. I can even play OGG files. I just don't buy DRM from the sources of DRM. I consider not mentioning that to be unfair and skirting dishonesty.

We're better than that.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by rek2 at 2006-12-17 17:37
just wanted to let you guys now that binaryfreedom.info supports the FSF in this step, don't listen to the Trolls, keep doing what you always has, protect us, and think only in freedom, we don't fight for usability but for freedom, GPL was not made to make computers work better, it was made to protect software from tirans, programmers should be the ones making software more usable not the FSF, the FSF is there to protect our software.
the people who always critics the FSF is the same people that denies the political ideals that we have, they want a system that works, they care less about everythin behind it. I say they are the ones who alianates themself been ignorant to the circustances.

http://www.binaryfreedom.info

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by r4y at 2006-12-18 20:24
Perhaps you guys should have a look at http://www.karmabanque.com and start/support a campaign there against Microsoft Vista (if there isin't one already!)

cheers

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by pacha at 2006-12-19 05:00
C'est bien de monter la vrai réalitée microsoft, au monde. Mais il faut aussi penser aux alternatives. Aujourd'hui il faut tout de même avoir un bon niveau pour faire ce que l'on veut avec Linux !
Pour installer un produit équivalent sous windows, il faut faire d'énorme recherche et après avoir trouver, il faut installer plein de packages que les non-développeur (comme moi) ne savent pas à quoi ils servent.
C'est là dessus que nous devons, à mon avis, mettre nos efforts.
Avoir des packages logiciels contenant tout le nécessaire (bien entendu, si un élément est déjà présent, les scripts seront suffissaments fin pour upgrader ou sauter cette installation). Ainsi les sociètés d'édition de logiciel feront plus pour linux. Comme les jeux video et autres logiciels n'existant que sous windows.

Voilà.

We must work on the linux package for newbeez if we would convert people liking windows to love Linux. And after, the software compagny will develop more for Linux.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by www8 at 2006-12-19 12:29
In my opinion, a blogs are helpful and good only for geeks. You want to create a campaign to all internauts, so you should change layout of this site.

Most people (those who don't know anything about Open Source and alternatives for Windows) want to have clear and concrete information about bad sides of Vista.

So, you should create a site, where would be the most important information.

And I think, you have to concentrate on presenting an alternative. There will be no effect, when people won't know how they can change their operating system.

Finally, I must admit, that sadly majority will still use Windows. Because, it has great support (not from Microsoft of course, I thought about other, more experienced users) and for example, most games work only on it.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by thenixedreport at 2006-12-19 18:55
I disagree with many of the negative comments thus far. It's like saying MS can provide propaganda against Linux, yet countering said propaganda is bad? I want to control my own machine. It's MY machine, not anybody else's.

I for the most part go with open source alternatives. The only thing I run on this desktop thus far is XP (mainly for games like FF Online). Even then, I run Firefox 2.0, OpenOffice.Org, GAIM, VLC, and other open alternatives to proprietary software.

The Redmond company seems to want to take power away from the individual computing-wise. I am against that 110%. They have been shown to want to potentially spy on users, even going to far as to leave a backdoor in their NT-based systems (remember that Windows Metafile "bug?..." it was an actual feature, not a bug). Wake up! You are consumers who have rights, or do you prefer the "new freedom?"

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by oblastar at 2006-12-19 21:17
Well at Uncyclopedia we posted a funny article about what Windows Vista is all about:
Windows Vista at Uncyclopedia

There is a lot of funny stuff there that is closer to the truth than fiction.

Yet I wonder, if Microsoft's anti-piracy part of Vista will prevent F/OSS from installing or working because they are not digitally signed by Microsoft to work on Vista? I support Windows for friends and family, and when they use Norton Internet Security, the Norton Firewall asks them "This program has been modified" and defaults the combo box to "Block access to this program" by default, and if they do not bother to read it, they automatically block Internet access to whatever program just got an Internet update. BoDog Poker, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc all update over the Internet now, and when they don't read the secuity dialog box that pops up, to see that they have to change a combo box to say "Allow this program to access the Internet" or else it blocks it, guess who they call to fix it? Yes, me! Microsoft's Windows Vista anti-piracy function works like Norton Firewall in that unsigned software defaults to "Block this program from running" and if the user does not read the security dialog, the software will get blocked and not run, because they didn't authorize Vista to allow it to run, and now Vista thinks it is malware or pirated code and blocks it. Programs that are DRM digitally signed by Microsoft or OEMs, avoid this kind of security dialog.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by seb at 2006-12-20 09:22
To be honest, I really don't understand what's going on. For me, this campaign can be a big dicredit for the FSF community. It's a dangerous game to play. The main problem, according to me, is to target Windows Vista. If the main goal is to respect users’ security and privacy rights, so make a more general campaign. Microsoft technologies are not the only ones... I'm not saying that users' privacy is not important : cause it really is. But for me, your campaign looks like a declaration of war... Please, try to be as Open as your code...

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by macutty at 2006-12-20 16:19
This website wants to run the follwing add-on: 'MSXML 5.0' from 'Microsoft Corporation'. If you trust the website and the add-on and want to allow it to run, click here...

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by greenarrow1 at 2006-12-21 02:09
Like a lot of programs you are buying a license to use Vista not the actual Operating System itself. So after saying that I tested Vista from the get go all the way to the end. I found many issues which violate 1) privacy of the user; 2) transmission of data between MS and computer which I would consider a Trojan base (another words sending and receiving data without the users permission) 3) WGA is nothing more then a tracking program to keep the user in line with MS antics (there are many other ways of validating a OS without repeated re-validations) 4) cost of Vista is not financial cost effective to either home or corporate users (which includes the many upgrades one would need to operate Vista to its full potential) 5) MS trying to control what a user can watch, download, copy (MS is not the FBI or police and has no authority to tell a user what they can or cannot do with their owned computer) 6) With Windows Live which Vista uses who is to say MS will not or could in the future hold the user's use of the computer unless they either upgrade or buy MS software (another words lock down Vista so it is not usable) 7) I really want to see the coding in Vista 3D to compare it to Novell XGL to see if they infringed on that coding (MS is known to steal others programs then make it their own)(also could this be why MS has buddied up to Novell) remember their past. 8) Finally why is not the Open source people filing writs with the Anti-Trust DOJ if any violations are found? I have filed 1 so far which is in conjunction with the European Unions Anti Trust Case (if what they violated in the EU why is it not a violation here in the US??)
You want to hurt MS then test Vista and when you find any violations report them that will hurt more then blogging specially if they have to remove or change a main feature.
I am after the WGA because it violates a users privacy rights and I have some major corporations behind me on this and I am gaining more support each day. I do not care what Operating System one has the maker does not have the right to scan your computer, specially when it collects more info then is what is needed.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-21 03:26
"Well at Uncyclopedia we posted a funny article about what Windows Vista is all about:
Windows Vista at Uncyclopedia"

Now that is almost as understated as the Uncyclopedia is over the top... but absolutely outstanding job, and very funny.

Unfortunately it's the grains of truth about Vista that make it so funny. Like an Oscar Wilde quote, as an example...

And they really are gritty grains of truth. Totally indigestible, in fact. You might say 'The problem with grit is that it is wasted on the grit-less"... sorry but that mangled non-quote is your fault Uncyclopedia.

I also support a good few Windows systems, although I will not take on any new ones.

I now only 'rescue' those people with problems that are not DRM or TC, or 'activation' related.

Long ago I would just fix it so they could watch the movie or what ever (legitimately purchased DVDs that wouldn't play, and so on - mostly).

But now I just tell them "sorry you will have to talk to Microsoft about that". It's hard to do that to people you know well and who count on you, but it just has to be that way, IMO, because to do anything else is just enabling the same sorry state of affairs that Microsoft wants to not only continue, but to make the problems even worse with Vista.

The first OS 'upgrade' in history that has the sole purpose of enslaving the end user even more. Not one single redeeming 'feature improvement' that I can see, in fact it does seem to be a downgrade in many aspects.

One benefit of my policy is that I get a fair number of Windows users that I 'help' to at least let me give them a 'Live CD or DVD' distro to try a taste of GNU/Linux with.

While that does not bring 100% of them around, it at least leaves them thinking, in the back of their mind, "I don't really have to put up with this" while they are talking to Microsoft (and sometimes paying considerable money just to be told it's the fault of the other guys program, i.e., Norton, etc. - whether it is or not).

So on an ever increasing basis I gain more people showing up at the LUG meetings, and asking about installing GNU/Linux, or at least dual booting so they can 'really' try it out (people are coming around faster now, but it still feels slow to me, because I know they would be better off with GNU/Linux).

So I think it's got to be a sort of tough love deal with your friends and operating systems.

Back in the day, we all (well I'm on the high side of 60 so I sure did) ran around and acted as unpaid Microsoft support people - because we wanted to share this 'new' thing called a PC - and soon Microsoft was dominating the market - good marketing, not good code, even then. (when I started it was punch card collators and they were not anything you wanted to share with your friends).

Still that's the way it was - now to undo the evil I inadvertently helped spread, has become a major goal for me.

Call it atonement if you wish.

Me, I don't think I did anything 'wrong', I wanted to spread the tech, and still do. It just needed RMS to point out the problems with some ways that the 'law', or a company's policies, could be used to subvert that 'tech'... he did, and still is.

So lambaste away about this, or any other FSF endeavor. But time will tell who is right, and my money is on the FSF. With some really good reasons.

Not just past FSF history, but many of those reasons are right there in Vista, for anyone who will take a moment to look, to see for them selves.

Freedom is not sexy enough? Well maybe not, but then the world isn't all Disneyland either. Protecting Freedom is not and never has been glamorous, just an unending slog through complainers and/or the 'Oh, they'll never use it that way' crowd.

What the heck, all battles worth the fight have things to overcome.

I rather enjoy the challenge anymore - does me good.

Long post - but then the subject does sometimes make me a bit verbose. And it grew organically, with each preview... it was only going to be a few lines to thank to the funny folks at Uncyclopedia... so blame them.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by ppan at 2006-12-21 04:12
"Windows Vista at Uncyclopedia"

FUD in its purest form.

Once again, what a sad, sad place this is. Thank god I don't subscribe to this kind of narrow-minded view.

Message to be suppressed in 3...2...1...

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2006-12-21 05:41
I know feeding the trolls is always a bad idea, but possibly other people that drop in and see one of those before they are removed need a little explanation.

While it's not my forum, and I can't speak for the FSF, or for BadVista.org, I can post what I think.

And if the people in charge want to remove this post it's OK by me - I am being a bit presumptuous by defending actions that I really have no inside knowledge of why they were taken.

But I have a suspicion I'm not to wide of the mark here.

So here's my take on the removal of some posts:

It never ceases to amaze me that people who will cry the most about a deleted post and how their "Freedoms" are being denied them, are the very people that are blaming the FSF for trying to protect freedom.

Microsoft would probably (if you were irritating enough to them - in any forum) just track you down (legally) and sue you out of existence.

I'd say that merely having a post removed from what is, after all, a moderated forum, isn't much to complain about.

You could start your own forum, heck the community even provides the free software to do just that - all you have to do is use it.

There are plenty of posts that do not agree with this site, or what the FSF is trying to do, that are not removed.

You need to ask your self why that is - theirs stay, but your posts go away... could it be that your posts are simply pointless yelling, serving no purpose?

You might want to read the posts that express opposition, they mostly have some actual point they want to make, and go about making it as well as they can.

A free flow of IDEAS is a good thing.

Anyway I think those of you that keep trying to complain about your posts being removed need to be asking why are some (in one case all) of your posts removed - but the other guy's posts that have bad things to say about this web site, or the advisability of the FSF taking this course, and so on, are still here for all to read.

Possibly it's just a deficiency in either what you're saying, or how you're saying it.

I probably read most, if not all the posts that have been removed, and I'd have removed them too.

Not simply because they are anti FSF or pro Vista, but because they are... well lets kindly put it like this: pointless ranting is counter productive.

This is good advice I am trying to offer, although I doubt you'll take it, but it would serve you well in life if you did.

Bravo !

Posted by Laurent B. at 2006-12-21 18:18
Félicitations !
Nous ne nous rendions même pas compte, que Microsoft s'apprêtait à contrôler automatiquement, si tous les utilisateurs payaient les licences de leur saloperies de logiciels propriétaires installés. Il faut dire que Microsoft, ce sont les seuls à faire des systèmes d'exploitations et des logiciels payants, et à contrôler leur utilisation.
Quand à l'idée de nous ficher tous... Elle me glace. Je préfère ne pas y penser, c'est entièrement nouveau pour moi. En effet, mon banquiers, mon gouvernements, les institutions et services publics que je fréquente -alors que je n'y suis pas obligé- ne conservent absolument aucune données me concernant, et c'est pourquoi je leur voue une confiance absolue. Comme Google, à qui je confie la totalité de mon courrier électronique, qui n'a lui non plus aucune idée d'ou je vais et de ce que je fais sur la toile. Pas plus qu'il ne dispose de moyens techniques pour parvenir à le savoir.
Tout ça est très grave, et vous avez raison de mobiliser les foules, car ça l'est bien plus que toutes les autres broutilles qui foutent notre planète en danger, comme les guerres, les génocides, les maladies, le réchauffement climatique, la déforestation et la bêtise universelle.
Continuez à servir cette grande cause pour l'humanité. Luttez jusqu'au bout, et quand toute la population mondiale en liesse (moins 60000 chômeurs) vous remerciera d'avoir sauvé la planète de Microsoft, vous ne pourrez que vous féliciter.
Le monde du libre en sera grandi.

website must be redesigned!

Posted by larrygdc at 2006-12-22 12:33
From a usability standpoint, I must say this website sucks! I am able to navigate it because I'm fairly used to blogs, but you are completely missing your intended audience.

You have a great advantage in that you have an eminently "googlable" tagline out there that is gaining traction, namely "bad vista". But from then on, you are badly dropping the "google ball".

You *badly* need to "analyze a use case".

Actor: a *Windows user*, not so net-savvy, who has heard some vague ideas that there are some things wrong with Vista. He has also heard the tagline "bad vista" somewhere. He's *mildly* curious about what this "bad vista" thing is all about, so he figures he'll google it during his lunch hour. It bears repeating that this actor has only *mild* interest! For such things that he is mildly interested in, of which there are many competing ones, he is used to googling them, clicking the first item in the serach results, and giving the site that comes up about 5-10 *seconds* of his time (including page load time), then deciding whether to investigate further.

You have the first battle won! You are #1 for "bad vista" (even without the quotes). You have the hard part done already! Many sites have been trying to get to that point for years!

But you fall down on the "easy" part... designing the website.

The use case called "Find out what this Bad Vista Thing is All About" goes as follows:

1. Enter the following search term in Google: bad vista

2. Click on #1 site.

3. Site loads in 2 seconds or less.

4. Actor immediately sees an uncluttered, *simple* (but visually appealing) screen with *nothing* but the top 10 reasons Vista is Bad, top first. Each reason should be 1 or 2 sentences at most. At least 3 reasons must be completely visible "above the fold" (without scrolling). Each reason should contain a link to more information about that reason, also in a clear, uncluttered format, with clear navigation to other reasons and back to the "top 10 list" without use of the Back button.

- End of Use Case -

Don't get me wrong... I think blogs are great, and I also think you need a blog on this topic, but the blog needs to be a link *off* the website. The blog cannot *be* the website!

This is a case where a *static HTML* website, using circa-1994 technology, is completely adequate and is in fact the best solution.

If you absolutely must use dynamic content, at least go for a Wiki. But a blog as the first page... you are losing your audience big time!

What is DRM?

Posted by kajiura at 2006-12-22 19:53
Somebody explain please, what is this DRM ?? (the only thing i can remember is linux's direct rendering manager :)))

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by mfoetsch at 2006-12-23 12:26
kajiura, DRM refers to "Digital Restrictions Management" (the industry calls it "Digital Rights Management").

A good resource is: http://www.eff.org/IP/fairuse/
(DefectiveByDesign.org has more links)

"Treacherous Computing" (aka "Trusted Computing") is related: http://www.eff.org/Infrastructure/trusted_computing/

An analysis by Peter Gutmann that puts it all in context with Vista (and mentions why it's a threat to Free Software) appeared on Slashdot yesterday: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

(Let's wait for serious discussion about this analysis to have it backed up [or rebutted] with references.)

Re:a real life test in 1998 of NT 5 beta 1

Posted by chronoss at 2006-12-24 01:18
Yes the exact precursor to XP is that old , and makes me wonder why it takes that long to make what XP professional which is what? NT5 beta2? A beta, any coders out there ship final versions as betas stand up. TWO:
we left the machine on with osme sniffer software and through the night it called home about 12 times almost once every 40 minutes.
Unfortunately the sniffing software wasn't sophisticated enough to trap the packets for analysis just logged that they were being sent to MS. Now on a software where nothing illegal , nothing wrong etc, why was it happening. Every feature that we could find to call home was turned off. And as my uncle at that time was an offical MS developer he also wondered what was going on , was told nothing. Now picture your gov't running like that. Picture any business you deal with like that. The phone company, your isp(the illegal wiretapping aside in the USA- i am in canada so...) people get real mad fast. Make sure to point it out the way I described that its not that they spy when you do something wrong they do it frequently and to users that do nothing. Also as i pay for bandwidth. Is there not some legal remedy for me and others to reclaim our costs as we do not know the frequency with which call homes happen. You cannot make me sign a legal EULA and then constantly take my bandwidth which i pay for and you do not.
If they wish to do so they need to tell me or show me stats that show how much bandwidth and cost i will in cure as to there OS. Then i can make a proper assumption to whethar i sign or accept there agreement. Other wise and IANAL but i have read cases where people had legal agreements that were nulled because the other party neglected to inform the other party ( the users) of certain things that could and would affect the agreement or potential agreement. Now in canada we have a very strict privacy law. More i read it and more i read MS's EULA, the more i might see a legal challenge could happen. I do not see MS showing its good faith in this EULA.
I also see that it is being very anti competitive and like another user where i have vmware and linux, on xp if not using vmware i am using vlc, openoffice (cause its the only app that can open doc files ROFL) arachnopilia 4.0 for webdesign (careware- a form a freeware)
I have been asked once form a provincial govt accountant about debian and i told him its a very robust distro with plenty a "free" tools. I also said for a desktop i use mandrake 10.1 ( was newest at time)
And i have told hospital people that they could save hundreds a millions a dollars by a migration to linux and in told in my research if every canadain govt Computer used linux the liscense fee savings would tally almost 900 million a year. WOW. wait times in hospitals are sick -- hire more doctors and increase there pay to lure more of them here. lower gas prices a bit more to stimulate the economy. Increase the discounts on tuition costs and hire or give an increase to professors as education is any countries tomorrow.
These are things that linux can help ANY country with. Think of my realativ esaying that the local police dept getting hacked and they ran windows, that would be a no brainer to use linux.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by erekose at 2006-12-24 20:36
And what of Gamers like myself? We have perhaps been ripped off the most by Microsoft. We help drive the hardware industry, and pretty much keep Moore's law going single handedly. Unfortunately Vista will give us slower and more expensive hardware, more compatibility problems, and basically force us to accept their terms because Linux and similar open source systems are not supported for many games.
Add this to other issues like lack of backwards compatibility for older games (A problem that was already rife with win XP)and the fact that because we have put so much effort into our machines they are generally used as our primary multimedia devices, and we pretty much get hit by every 'feature' Vista has.
Even Bill Gates has recently said that DRM is pointless, why are they doing this to what is perhaps their most captive market of all?

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by mick666 at 2006-12-25 11:25
In my opinion windows vista will be the bigger error of microsoft; the people and the company to using vista would be up-date their pc and hardware and spend so so so much money. Some information company now begin to able the users to buy their pc's without a copy of windows, installing a GNU/Linux distribution like Kubuntu or Mandriva.
I think in this period and many more when vista will enter on commerce, the free software could gain on microsoft.

Andrew

http://www.openlinux.splinder.com/

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by oblastar at 2006-12-25 16:24
Well the Uncyclopedia article was meant to be funny, not FUD. Still it did contain some truths about Vista in it.

I expect the pro-Microsoft people to call anything that reveals at least some kernels of truth about Vista to be FUD. Yet it is ironic as Microsoft had had its own FUD about Linux for over 10 years now.

User friendly Linux? Please meet Linspire:
Linspire Linux based OS

Much better than Unbuntu and most other Debian based Distros. They try to make Linspire more like Windows than Linux, and it used to be called Lindows until Microsoft sued them over the name. Freespire will be the free version, but the main Linspire OS costs a lot less than XP Home Edition or Vista Starter Edition. Sometimes Linspire gives free ISOs over BitTorrent as part of promotions. It has Click 'N Run that works like Windows Update, but also lets you buy Linux commercial programs as well and install them.

Oh BTW Novell and Microsoft made a deal to give SuSE some Microsoft technology like Vista has in exchange for some SuSE technology for Vista updates. If anyone noticed Vista is using a Unix like security system of having an administrator password to install apps and making it harder for malware to be installed via security certificates.

I might upgrade one of my systems to Vista to try it out. But I run Red Hat Fedora Core 5 on my server, soon to upgrade it to Core 6.
Red Hat Fedora

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by rhunter at 2006-12-26 12:51
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Download Vista for free before you knock it ;)

Posted by yd6mjd at 2006-12-26 13:46
A lot of people work hard to promote VistA and have worked hard for many years. Don't let a lobbying firm like MS succeed in its campaign to Google-bomb perfectly good software off the radar.

Download Vista for free and give it a try. ;)

There is and has been for years, an active VistA community if you have questions.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by sargek at 2006-12-26 16:39
I applaude this anti-vista campaign. I see people posting things like "don't bash vista until you try it!". These people completely miss the point. The point is the product is made by Microsoft. That alone should be enough reason to avoid it like the plague. Microsoft is completely incapable of making an operating system efficient and stable enough to be used with any semblance of reliability. Windows has, and always will be, a gaming shell, nothing more. Personal and corporate adoption of the Windows "OS" has largely been because of market flooding, not because there are no better alternatives. How can I take a server OS seriously that has a built in media player, or even a GUI no less.

Monkey see, monkey buy

Posted by lokal2b at 2006-12-26 17:12
Microsoft is not forcing anyone to run their software, or accept any of their fanciful creations as the only solution. IMHO any restriction placed upon users of products from any company are misinformed, or just don't care.
Thankfully there are alternatives, and the choice is easy to make if you take the time to explore the possibilities. But maybe a little freedom is what you're happy with? If you're not afraid of exploring your own ability and finding that there really are good quality alternatives, offering respect for your personal privacy for free, then that's your choice.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by Vicente Raúl Plata Fonseca [XnT] at 2006-12-27 18:30
I'm waiting to see some more arguments so I can drive my friends up to Open Source Software.

Nevertheless, I think (as other people already argued before) we should focus more on making more friendly software, whom is the only lack of most of the FSF Software (let's be honest, please).

This kind of campaigns should be done after that. Common end-users don't have enough expertise (and criteria) for making a choice. Rather than attacking, why don't we build better barricades?

Regards,

XnT.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by zyxman at 2006-12-31 21:31
Hi All!

Please, read this about Vista DRM impact on hardware:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Happy New Year!
Zyxman.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by area66 at 2007-01-01 02:40
New Year Resolutions:

1. Renew my FSF membership.

2. Get at least one new person to Join the FSF.

3. Help at least 2 people become 100% free from Microsoft software.

4. Explain what DRM and TC are to at least 4 people (and I mean really be effective at explaining how this affects them).

5. Give away at least 8 'Live' GNU/Linux Cd's - and take the time to sit with each person the first time they try it out (there is nothing like a personal bit of supplying 'helpful tips').


Now there are 5 really easy resolutions to keep. You can add more, and I'd encourage everyone to do even more to promote GNU/Linux and the FSF.

BUT, think what a change we all could make if each of us did just these 5 simple things in 2007.

I hope you will share my resolutions (and also keep them) in the coming year.

And to all, a very Happy New Year!

Are you migrating to Microsoft AGAIN ?

Posted by Julian Coccia at 2007-01-01 06:50
People have been migrating to Windows for years without even asking why. Today we have other alternatives and it is time, for once, to ask:

Are you migrating to Microsoft AGAIN ?

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by lemax at 2007-01-01 07:04
Hi,

I changed my OS from Windows to Linux Ubuntu. It was very interesting. But i have discoverd that the free softwares were not only on Linux distibutions. Many of them have a Windows Version. So what, I did a website that list the best ones i use on Windows. For helping people.
see you on http://www.freewebs.com/freesofts4win/

bye

Max

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by scotty45 at 2007-01-02 14:39
VISTA is nothing but Microsoft Spyware.

Read the EULA, they have taken the constitution and shredded it by allowing them to spy on your computer 24 hours a day . Defender will scan your computer on a daily basis and report back to MS about anything they feel is not legitimate on your computer. When did I give MS the right to spy on me and my computer. Well if you install VISTA that is exactly what you are doing.
They do not even have to ring the doorbell, you give MS the right to enter your home and go through your computer with impunity.

The DRM measures in VISTA will prevent you from viewing any HD multimedia content in its original form. It will disable anything that is not MS approved and prevent hardware from working.

Your brand new Flat Screen will not display HD content in Vista and most of the other hardware in your PC.

Read this and be very scared:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

I used to think people that criticized MS were nut cases but after reading about the new DRM measures, they are right! MS is trying to form another monopoly from everything to hardware to software to Hollywood content.

Why have all the major Tech reviewers not told the public about this? It seems their paychecks can be bought off with free software and hardware.

I am now in the MS is EVIL Camp.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by tuckerl at 2007-01-05 14:03
On one hand, live.com does need to improve but on another, we need to be a little less negative about it! you have to remember that this search engine is relatively new... so they are still basically in the "beta" stage. I think the best think to do is really push them to make some changes, whether it be via E-mail or more posts like this one... I think a positive attitude would help a great deal also! another thing they need to do is stop working with the graphic design so much, i mean sure it looks nice but they could really improve other areas with the time there spending on the graphic design parts of there search engine!
-sincerely, Tucker Lee

Re:BadVista.org: Let Microsoft know they need to fix their search engine

Posted by stu at 2007-01-08 10:36
Whether MicroSoft's search engine is "BROKEN" by fault or design just doesn't matter to me anymore. It's an example of either their continued incompetence or cupidity. Only the most ardent fan-boys will bother to continue making excuses for them as they continue to fleece the clueless masses.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by vistabad at 2007-01-11 14:59
All Windows/Office up to ME/2000 were tolerable, because they used only serial number that was unconditionally and independently reusable on every PC. Windows from XP, through Vista, and up to Vienna and beyond are obviously controlled by activation, and thus unconditionally intolerable and inacceptable to any use ever imagined.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by ruip at 2007-01-16 04:55
I have been thinking about changing from Microsoft to OpenSoft or Linux type OS.
However, I must admit that the only reason I have not yet done this is because of the way in which people consistently bad mouth Microsoft.
I find it very frustrating and not very productive at all.
Please don’t get me wrong, I really think that good points have been raised and that Linux type software has huge advantages.
But having said that, Microsoft software is just so much easier to use and a lot more compatible to everything else out there.
So, if you taking about “freedom”, then in my opinion, Microsoft is the better choice.

As for dbowles comments below-
A car dealer might not tell you who is allowed to ride with you, but the law is very clear and does tell you how to drive!
Also the standard warranty of a car will also not cover any motor alterations you might have done to the engine.
And although Nike might not make you sign an agreement, it still limits you in that you can only wear it on your feet.
---//--

OS is about choice, and in my opinion, computing is changing, and I believe that companies such as The Free Software Foundation, should be using this time to change this rather than trying to make Microsoft look stupid.
For example, Google is already trying and nothing is stopping Google in becoming the next OS!

I am very open minded and listen/read about all OS options, i.e. Mac OS / Linux(Opensoft) / Microsoft.
I really think that Microsoft gets blamed for a lot of things that is not really their fault.

I have always learned that one should never bad mouth the competitor.
That is not the way to win clients.

If Opensoft is to win this war, then its’ users and developers should take a completely different approach to its way of thinking.

Re:BadVista.org: FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by xpbad at 2007-01-17 13:28
Withdraw XP, this activated evil!

FSF launches campaign against Microsoft Vista

Posted by UNIX-WORLD NEWS at 2006-12-15 17:59
The Free Software Foundation (FSF) today launched BadVista.org, a campaign with a twofold mission of exposing the harms inflicted on computer users by the new Microsoft Windows Vista and promoting free software alternatives that respect users' security an

BadVista - Kampagne der FSF

Posted by F!XMBR at 2006-12-15 18:06
Boston, MA—December 15, 2006—The Free Software Foundation (FSF) today launched BadVista.org, a campaign with a twofold mission of exposing the harms inflicted on computer users by the new Microsoft Windows Vista and promoting free software alterna...

Organización estadounidense declara la guerra a Microsoft Windows Vista

Voy a empezar contando una fábula, la de la mosca y el elefante. Había una mosca volando por todo el

FSF Launches "BadVista" Campaign

Posted by Donna's SecurityFlash at 2006-12-16 22:08
From Slashdot http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/16/2252240 : FrankNFurter writes to note the launch

Bad Vista

Posted by chorse's weblog at 2006-12-17 13:12
The Free Software Foundation has launched a capaign against Vista. You really should have a look. Freedom tastes of reality! ...

Die Badvista Kampagne

Posted by at 2006-12-18 07:53
Die Free Software Foundation hat unter der Domain Badvista.org eine Kampagne gegen Windows Vista gestartet. Die Kampagne verfolgt zwei Ziele: Erstens soll auf die Gefahr hingewiesen werden, die sich Benutzer von Windows Vista aussetzen und zweitens sollen kostenlose Software Alternativen, die die Privatsphaere und die Sicherheit des Benutzers respektieren, gefoerdert werden.

Informationen wie man die Badvista Kampagne unterstuetzen und sich aktiv beteiligen kann, sind ebenfalls auf der Website zu finden.

BadVista.org

Posted by Timmy's Blog at 2006-12-18 11:27
The Free Software Foundation luanched a new site: BadVista.org They want to promote free software alternatives that respect users’ security and privacy rights. To be honest, I don’t know what they are trying to accomplish with this campaign...

BadVista, la seconda Intifada

Posted by casperize at 2006-12-18 22:26
Doveva accadere, era solo questione di tempo. Il Profeta ha parlato, la fatwa contro il nascente demone Windows Vista partorito dall’Impero del Male con sede a Redmond è firmata, i muezzin stanno salendo ai minareti per attaccare la lagna e...

Organización estadounidense declara la guerra a Microsoft Windows Vista

Posted by Bloggers MSDN Latam at 2006-12-19 05:05
Voy a empezar contando una fábula, la de la mosca y el elefante. Había una mosca volando por todo el

BadVista.org, I proud of you?

Posted by Lorgor at 2006-12-19 15:02
John Sullivan, program administrator of The Free Software Foundation (FSF) announced the BadVista.org a campaign against Microsoft (Windows) Vista.  I am interesting on this (I don’t care on what they want to do with Microsoft). “Vista is an...

Vista - it's cool, but

Posted by OffBeatMammal at 2006-12-21 03:26
Because the service pack for SQL 2005 is now available ( for testing ) that lets it run under Vista I

You know Vista is&nbsp;Bad?

Posted by iTechnology at 2007-01-12 09:49
Free Software Foundation has launched a campaign (i.e BadVista) against Microsoft Vista which will be released for public in the next month (i.e January 2007). FSF has launched the campaign against Vista when they know Microsoft was trying to convince ...
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About this blog
The BadVista campaign is an advocate for the freedom of computer users, opposing adoption of Microsoft Windows Vista and promoting free (as in freedom) software alternatives.

You can support the campaign by joining the FSF.

Support the FSF
Vista News Watch
Analysis: DRM may be why Microsoft flip-flopped on Vista virtualization 2007-07-03
Forget about the WGA! 20+ Windows Vista Features and Services Harvest User Data for Microsoft - From your machine! - Softpedia 2007-07-02
iTWire - Vista: They took five years for this? 2007-06-25
PC World - Windows Vista Not Playing Well with IPv6 2007-06-22
EFF: Windows Media Center DRM - Now With More Bugs! 2007-05-25
More news…
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