Program Transcript

Read the full program transcript of Chris Masters' report "Big Fish, Little Fish".

Reporter: Chris Masters

Date: 27/03/2006

CHRIS MASTERS: On April 17, 2005, Myuran Sukumaran celebrated his 24th birthday. He might have thought it his lucky day. Travelling on a personalised passport, blessed with an array of Chinese lucky numbers and with riches at his fingertips, Sukumaran and eight others would be arrested that day.

Less than a year later, a Bali court delivered sentences to seven of them of life and two of them of death.

LEE RUSH: We could never have expected this outcome. We would have done something different, I am certain, to what has brought us here to this country.

REPORTER: Is there anything you'd like to say to Australia to try to garner a bit of support at home? How are you? How are you feeling, guys, how's your health? How's it going? Everything alright?

SCOTT RUSH: I'm not expressing anything.

CHRIS MASTERS: There was distress also at the Australian Federal Police, the organisation that delivered the tip-off that lead to the arrests.

MICK KEELTY: There were portrayals of the AFP as having blood on its his hands. Well, that's ridiculous. Their portrayal of the AFP as being the executioners. I mean, how would the AFP...Even in our own country we don't sentence people. We deliver the evidence to the court and the court determines the guilt or innocence of the people involved and then determines the sentence. So there were a lot of biased portrayals of the AFP's role here without any consideration really to what the bigger picture was.

CHRIS MASTERS: Tonight, that bigger picture. Our setting, the criminal underworld of South-East Asia from where the drugs were sourced. The journey into the expanding Asian drugs market takes us beyond the Australian perspective towards the view from Jakarta on drugs and their traffickers. That bigger picture encompasses the maelstrom of change within a modern Indonesia struggling to apply the rule of law.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: I can assure you it's not going to be a smooth ride. It's going to be rough ride, you know. And we just have to be prepared for this.

CHRIS MASTERS: Into this battle zone, where the Australian Federal Police has taken the fight, we examine the catch. Two weeks after the Bali Nine verdicts Commissioner Keelty reopened a revamped Transnational Crime Centre in Jakarta. Alongside him was Indonesian National Police Chief General Sutanto. In the front line of reform Sutanto has had to take on his own.

BUDIMAN TANUREDJO(TRANSLATION): He has taken a firm stand towards several members of the police who were subsequently seen to be abusing their power.

CHRIS MASTERS: It's also been a turbulent term for Commissioner Keelty. In his time, 92 Australians have died as the result of terrorist bombings throughout Indonesia. And the AFP budget has nearly tripled to over $1 billion. Around $40 million has been poured into a form of forward defence with AFP officers now in 26 countries. The need to get closer to the Indonesians advances the proposition that the Bali Nine were sacrificed on the altar of counter-terrorism initiatives.

MICK KEELTY: Well, that's nonsense because we'd been working with the Indonesian National Police here in Jakarta since the early '90s. People have seen the successes that we've had over...Not only the first Bali bombing but the bombing of the Australian Embassy. The second Bali bombing as well. I mean, we'd firmly entrenched our cooperation over counter-terrorism and we've been working with the Indonesians on narcotics for some time.

CHRIS MASTERS: When Australia launched its national illicit drugs strategy in 1997, expanding the international role of its police, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were still at school. Sukumaran would go on to a job at the Passport Office and Chan, at a catering company. Their seven partners in crime also shared modest circumstances as well as dangerous ambition.

LEE RUSH: We didn't understand what the risks were until it was far too late. Maybe he just... A less than...A very immature young man, than I would allow myself to think he was.

CHRIS MASTERS: One of the drugs mules, Scott Rush, along with a schoolmate, Michael Czugaj, was lured into the world of transnational crime by a Brisbane associate, Tan Nguyen. By the time Rush and Czugaj signed on, Nguyen's efforts to hook other mules in the nightclubs and pool halls of Fortitude Valley had already drawn the interest of the Brisbane office of the Australian Federal Police, which launched 'Operation Midship'.

Earlier runs to Bali probably funded the later mission. These had involved teams from Brisbane and Sydney, including Myuran Sukumaran, Andrew Chan, Renae Lawrence and Matthew Norman. They'd be joined by Si Yi Chen and Martin Stephens. Most of the Sydney group worked for the catering company that employed Andrew Chan. By the time the teams flew from Australia to Bali in April 2005, there were, it seems, three separate tip-offs to police. Tan Nguyen had been flagged by Customs and a letter sent to the Indonesian National Police, identifying all members except Myuran Sukumaran advised of a likely attempt to traffic drugs.

At this stage, the preferred goal of the AFP was in likelihood for the Australians to be watched rather than arrested in Indonesia.

MICK KEELTY: At the time the information was originally passed by the AFP to the Indonesian National Police, no-one knew how it was going to play out. And like anything, once you transfer the information to another agency you have to agree with the transfer of the information that that agency does with the information what it will.

CHRIS MASTERS: Andrew Chan had earlier made an important connection further north in Bangkok. The flesh strips throughout Thailand are ideal for recruiting not just partners in sex, but in crime. As in Australia, the idea is to recruit the exploitable and have them take the risks.

CHARTCHAI SUTHIKLOM: In principle they know that's what they're going to do. But in detail they do not know what's exactly inside.

CHRIS MASTERS: A Thai prostitute, Cherry Likit Bannakorn, had reached an agreement with Andrew Chan that she would act as a courier, delivering drugs to Bali. Cherry was another to live in modest circumstances, remembered here for keeping company with Nigerian men who'd attracted the interest of Thai police.

AMNOYPORN MANEEWAN(TRANSLATION): Cherry herself was involved with a group of dark-skinned foreigners from overseas. And in the past three months there has been a drug elimination program being carried out at the apartment complex where she was staying. After the sweep, Cherry disappeared from the scene.

CHRIS MASTERS: In Tangerang Prison in Jakarta I was able to meet some of the couriers now on death row, and although not on camera, hear their story. Like Cherry, the women were given suitcases like these. In the bigger operations, a group of such couriers, unknown to each other, are sent on their way. Even if some are caught their West African boyfriends remain in business.

CHARTCHAI SUTHIKLOM: These people will order the drugs from the broker in Thailand, who can order from the border. Then they will have another group who is stationed in Thailand recruit the Thai females or the Philippine females, or other nationalities, to be the courier.

CHRIS MASTERS: When Cherry arrived in Bali she was detected by local police surveillance, which had been slow to respond to the Australian alert. As it turned out, despite allegedly twice delivering drugs to Bali in the space of a week, she escaped arrest and returned to Thailand.

MICK KEELTY: Obviously we would have liked to have seen her arrested and extradited back to Indonesia. And I haven't lost hope of that happening yet. But at the same time, just in the same way I've described about our own sovereignty in Australia and the Indonesian sovereignty here, we have to respect the sovereignty of the Thais. They had her there. They didn't have a brief of evidence against her. The Indonesians had the brief of evidence. And so we can't ask them to make an arrest without the evidence.

CHRIS MASTERS: Having missed Cherry, the Indonesians were not going to let the Australians go. On April 17, the first group of mules, with their overseer, Andrew Chan, were detained.

Were you happy with their decision to make an arrest?

MICK KEELTY: I mean, cooperation means exactly that. I mean, you can't half cooperate. Partnerships mean, if you're in look after your partner. You look after not only the good things, you have to look after sometimes, you know, decisions that don't, you know, go in the way you might want them. And you have to accept that because sovereignty is clearly a key issue to the way jurisdictions will operate when we're talking about transnational and global crime.

CHRIS MASTERS: The second group was quickly rounded up. All of them, including families back in Australia, would have their lives changed forever.

LEE RUSH: I don't see Scott as a major criminal at all...He's been a foolish young man. His mother Christine and I certainly do not condone drugs as a habit or condone the thought that Australians are drug-trafficking and attempting to bring drugs into Australia. Um, but this is a serious crime that's been committed. And Scott has been hit with a very harsh sentence. Not that I believe that the sentence should be as harsh as this for a drug courier.

CHRIS MASTERS: Like the Schapelle Corby case before it, while the proposition of innocence could not carry so far, blame attached itself to the police and sympathy to the prisoners. There was suspicion that the operation might have netted the little fish, while the big fish got away. Then, two weeks after the arrests, an alleged big fish was caught in this outer Jakarta suburb.

HATTA, STREET VENDOR(TRANSLATION): Suddenly, two men got out of the car in plain clothes and run here. They straightaway opened the gate. I didn't ask them what's up. I thought they were visitor. They opened the gate and went straight in. Shots were heard.

CHRIS MASTERS: Indonesian Police took into custody Man Singh Ghale, reputedly a Nepalese drug dealer who had operated in Jakarta since the 1990s.

HATTA: He was brought out handcuffed and wounded.

CHRIS MASTERS: There are two views of what happened to Man Singh Ghale. The police say he was killed while resisting arrest. Some criminal associates say he was robbed and allowed to escape. In any case, as it turned out, the connection to the Bali operation was slight, Ghale having done business with the stepfather of Cherry Likit Bannakorn.

MICK KEELTY: He is on the margins of this...of this syndicate. But just as I wouldn't expect the Indonesians to make any comment on a police shooting in Australia, that would be subject to the jurisdiction of an Australian coroner in whatever state in Australia it occurred, I can't be expected to make or cast judgment over the Indonesians. And clearly there's a process here in Indonesia that has to take place.

CHRIS MASTERS: So who was in the background of the Bali deal? The answer appears to be within a mosaic of medium-level drug traders, often Nepalese, more often West African, who operate between various Asian communities.

CHARTCHAI SUTHIKLOM: In that city, they will have another group of members who operate in that area, and recruit another couriers to smuggle that suitcase or that heroin to the third countries.

CHRIS MASTERS: In the Tanah Abung area of Jakarta, as in Thailand, the black community survives in a grey economy, often married to local women, sometimes dealing in drugs. As in Thailand in the past, Indonesian police have adopted a take-no-prisoners approach - the back streets of Jakarta, a new Wild West.

MANTAJUDIN, SECURITY GUARD(TRANSLATION): There have been incidents in 2004 and 2001 in Kayu Manis. There were two blacks who were big dealers. They were shot on sight by the police.

USMAN HAMID, CO-ORDINATOR, KONTRAS HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP: In some cases, it happens. But the police always gave an excuse. For examples, those who have been accused as criminals are trying to run, are trying to escape from the police watch. But then you never know how exactly the things happen.

CHRIS MASTERS: Despite the crackdown, finding drugs in Jakarta is not too difficult. Nor for that matter is finding our way into the underworld. After a small amount of negotiations, a local drug dealer, carrying a wound from a police shooting and unsurprisingly, requesting anonymity, described the local 'putauw' or low-grade heroin scene.

TOMMY, DRUG DEALER(TRANSLATION): It was brought in by the Nigerian couriers. To market it here, they approached Indonesian women in particular. These men from Nigeria married these women or maybe just lived with them. So the women were the ones who initially spearheaded their marketing. These women had friends. They socialised with the Indonesians.

CHRIS MASTERS: The development of a local market for hard drugs in Indonesia has rattled a people struggling for order and survival.

MR GRAMPY, BAR MANAGER: I just tell you the drug story. For Indonesian country, drug is the biggest problem. Indonesia is developing country, poor country. If the people in Indonesia on drug...yeah...our country will getting poorer and poorer because drug can kill everybody, kill everything. You know, the people will be lazy and they need money and they will get money and they create all the bad things. That's why I think Indonesia they create really hard rules for the drugs.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: You know, for many years, we always thought that a drug in Indonesia is not a big problem because it was...Indonesia is considered only a transition, you know, a transit point, not the...end of the market. But for quite so many years now, the situation changed.

CHRIS MASTERS: Indonesia's national anthem opens this Narcotics Board conference. BNN is headed by another reformist, former Bali Police Chief Made Pastika, a friend of Commissioner Keelty. The National Narcotics Board estimates 4 million Indonesian teenagers use illegal drugs.

MICK KEELTY: It's an enormous problem. And in terms of scale, it's nothing like the problem that we have in Australia. So to work with them and help them, and have the by-product of assistance to our own country, to me is not only a smart thing to do, it's the right thing to do.

CHRIS MASTERS: At their February conference, Indonesia's BNN presented a call to arms to senior police.

The Australian Federal Police can't fail to be aware of their policing partner's deep history of corruption. The Indonesians themselves acknowledge it. At this conference, priority, above drugs and terrorism, was given to confronting what the underworld calls 'Code 86'.

TOMMY(TRANSLATION): I got arrested. They drove me around. And it became clear there was room for negotiation...doing an '86'.

CHRIS MASTERS: On that occasion, the drug dealer says the bribe amounted to about $50. Now, under the new order, doing an '86' is more difficult. But then again, if you can't bribe a cop you can always try the courts.

TOMMY(TRANSLATION): In the past, it depended on the senior officers. There were some places, for example, at a particular police station, you could do an '86'. But once it got to regional headquarters, you couldn't. The risk could be lessened, depending on what we did. If we couldn't do an '86' here, we'd try somewhere else. This sort of bargaining goes on up to the level of the courts. It's up to all of us as to how we work it out.

KIM, PROSTITUTE(TRANSLATION): I'm freelance. And my customers - this might surprise you - customers sometimes Give me $200 or $100. That sort of money is the norm.

CHRIS MASTERS: Police raids on nightclubs and brothels have increased pressure
on Indonesia's busy vice industry.

KIM(TRANSLATION): It's getting more and more difficult. Hanging out is more and more difficult. So when I am hanging out, I have to...I used to be able to relax. Now I'm paranoid, scared. That's how it is.

CHRIS MASTERS: The sex worker we spoke to had mixed views on the raids. While impressed by the targeting of corrupt senior police and their cronies, she complained junior police have stood over and even raped her.

KIM(TRANSLATION): I hate them. I really hate them. What can I do? I'm just an ordinary person. All I can do is accept my fate.

CHRIS MASTERS: Another major source of illicit income for police has been the illegal casino industry. Barely hidden, frequently in the Chinese quarters, were huge enterprises. This man ran one of them.

HARRY, CASINO OPERATOR(TRANSLATION): For running costs for the local police, the smallest station commander can get $700 a week.

CHRIS MASTERS: General Sutanto, reputedly run out of town himself for taking on casino bosses early in his career, has now, literally, turned the tables.

HARRY(TRANSLATION): It's drastic now, drastic. Indeed, there are none open at all. They are closed. Certainly, no-one dares to open at all. Especially the highest-class one. They don't dare open.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: You can see now, almost, illegal gambling is almost non-existent. Before, you know, you seen it everywhere. And now it's non-existent. But, on the other hand, you see that the police are now very diligent in checking out whether motorcycles have the proper registration, whether they put on their safety helmet or not. So I guess that the police knows that they are not allowed to back up illegal gambling any more, so they have to find other ways.

CHRIS MASTERS: In the Indonesian National Police, they talk of good corruption
and bad corruption - getting a reward for performing your duty being good and being paid to let a crook go, bad. They also talk of wet and dry areas.

Traffic policing is the most conspicuous wet area, where cops supplement their incomes by informal on-the-spot fines. Operational budgets are also supplemented by raids on the non-public purse.

DR FAROUK MUHAMMAD, GOVERNOR, INDONESIAN POLICE TRAINING ACADEMY: So, in order to get additional income, they, they have to make a good relationship with people. So, in terms of corruption, pure corruption, that's all corruption. We may not permit them to do so but in term of legal aspect, maybe it doesn't fulfil. But, still, in the future.

CHRIS MASTERS: Since 2001, foreign aid has poured into skills development, particularly in counter-terrorism. But Indonesian police remain poorly paid, these junior officers earning about $200 a month. While anti-corruption and human rights are high on the teaching agenda, policing has yet to be complemented by a working budget.

YUNDINI ERWIN, LECTURER, INDONESIAN POLICE TRAINING ACADEMY: They don't want to have low salary. They don't want to do any corruption. They don't want to get money from the people, to do all those kind of things. They want to be a clean person. They want to be a clean officer. And they are working on that, yes.

CHRIS MASTERS: You're not well paid. How do you avoid corruption?

USMAN THOIF, POLICE CAPTAIN: I think if we understand deeply, truly understand the philosophy of police to serve and protect community, and also we understand the rule, understand the law about corruption, I think we will make ourself clean from corruption.

CHRIS MASTERS: But out there in the community, where there's no welfare, no pension, 10 per cent unemployment and much higher under-employment, you also don't get by on less than fresh air. Illegal movies, sold on the streets for under a dollar, are one small part of a massive underground economy. Police regularly raid the markets. The marketeers just as regularly bribe their way back onto the streets - and then they do it all again.

YASIN, DVD SELLER(TRANSLATION): Well, we scatter when there's a raid. And then we come back.

CHRIS MASTERS: Yasin, the illegal DVD seller, does well, earning between $5 and $10 a day. Transparency International ranks Indonesia among the world's most corrupt nations. Indonesia's black marketplace has merged so completely with the legitimate economy that turning around corruption is all the more difficult.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: And that create a problem because it's create a blur - what is corruption and what is not. And then it keep going on that way. So then we lost sight of, of the strict line between corruption and not. And that's the situation we are facing now.

CHRIS MASTERS: Public urging has encouraged President Yudhoyono to start at the top. The KPK - a corruption eradication commission - was formed in 2002.

BUDIMAN TANUREDJO(TRANSLATION): What is not yet apparent is how to prevent corruption, meaning the reform of the bureaucracy has not yet been fully implemented. So that people consider that when the new government was formed that the international transparency index on corruption would improve. But it has not yet shown significant improvement. I see the biggest problem as being the prevention of corruption.

CHRIS MASTERS: A national purge on corruption has seen raids on the supreme court and the electoral commission, as well as the pursuit of senior police. General Landung was investigated for receiving gifts such as this new car.

ERRY RIYANA HARDJAPAMEKAS, INDONESIAN CORRUPTION ERADICATION COMMISSION: We need five years, or maybe even 10 years, learning from other countries and learning from our own history. We have to be patient. We have to have stamina. And it is a long-term because we just ignored this problem for a long, long time, 30 years, more than 30 years.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: I talk to many people, many of my friend in the business. They are now thinking twice before trying to bribe, because they don't want to end up in jail or something like that. Now, they see the risk of doing corrupt act has been increasing. And that's a good sign, I think.

CHRIS MASTERS: Part of the big picture the Australian Federal Police wants understood has to include its delicate relationship with the Indonesian National Police within this sensitive period of reform.

MICK KEELTY: In terms of isolating or insulating the AFP from that, it's something we're very conscious of. And that's one of the reasons why we have to deal at official levels. We underpin our working relationship with the Indonesians, as we do in other countries, through the government-to-government relationships that exist in these countries. And we also have our own integrity-testing programs with our own staff to ensure that they've not fallen into a life of corruption whilst they're in these places.

CHRIS MASTERS: Despite the difficulties and criticism of the joint Bali Nine operation, Commissioner Keelty is confident the relationship with all the Asian partners in crime-fighting is worth it.

Beyond the successes in rounding up terrorists in Indonesia, information exchange has led to some or the world's biggest drug seizures in Australia and abroad. A joint operation which closed down the world's third-largest amphetamine factory near Jakarta last year received little media attention, the drugs, in part, bound for Australia.

There have been other major seizures. 184kg of heroin and 80kg of amphetamines
in this case, 357kg of heroin in Fiji, and earlier, off Port Macquarie, a 390kg heroin haul.

MICK KEELTY: From 2000, 2001, we've made an enormous in-road into preventing drugs from coming to Australia. And in excess of, you know,
11 tonnes of narcotics - not only from the AFP. This also includes customs
and the other agencies. But 11 tonnes of drugs coming to Australia. That's an enormous amount of drugs being stopped at their source. And if policing is about crime prevention, then this is an excellent example of crime prevention, treating the crime at its source. But not blaming the countries involved, working with the countries involved to deal with the problem.

CHRIS MASTERS: The statistics are compelling. In 1999, there were 1116 deaths
from heroin overdose in Australia. By 2002, it was down to 364.

Australian Customs, which has also had millions poured into improved systems such as this container X-ray facility in Melbourne, also sees the link.

JOHN VALASTRO, AUSTRALIAN CUSTOMS SERVICE: Essentially, we've got research which backs that up as well, and probably the most useful research in that sense is the one that relates to the fact that while, while Australia has actually had a decline in use and availability of heroin, in similar countries overseas, particularly those that source heroin from the Golden Triangle, have actually seen either a stable, a stable usage pattern, and/or an increase over the same period. So, I think we can point pretty clearly to the fact that that's the case. By the same token, we're not saying that we're the only factor out there that's playing a fact, playing a part.

WOMAN: And as we move along, you can see weapons concealed within the actual car, a handgun here, which was put inside the door; a pistol, just here.

MAN: We have cocaine concealed in soup cans. And over here we have a concealment of narcotics inside a vase, as you can see over here. That's where the narcotics are concealed. We also have heroin concealed inside clothing over here. We have steroids which are concealed in a speaker system.

CHRIS MASTERS: Australian Customs has had some good catches, including last year, 5 million ecstasy tablets - an indication in its own right that shifting patterns of drug use is another explanation for decreasing fatalities.

MICK KEELTY: Amphetamine use is up, but the United Nations Office of Drugs in Crime singled out Australia in its March 2004 report to say that whatever Australia was doing in its supply reduction strategy was having a marked effect.

CHRIS MASTERS: Against the 11 tonnes of drugs seized in the past five years, the eight kilograms and nine traffickers captured in Bali might seem out of proportion with the attention attracted, but for the death penalty imposed on two Australians citizens.

Can you say what your position on the death penalty is, personally?

MICK KEELTY: Well, in a way, it doesn't matter, because I hold a statutory office and I'm Commissioner of Police. But I am a practising Christian, and I don't believe in the death penalty, but I have to do my job according to my oath, without fear or favour, affection or ill-will. You know, there are good and bad parts about policing, but you have to take the good and the bad, and always work for the greater good.

CHRIS MASTERS: How do you reconcile the apparent contradiction of Australia opposing the death penalty, you personally opposing the death penalty, yet our citizens being exposed to the death penalty?

MICK KEELTY: Well, it appears on the surface to be a contradiction, but in reality it's not. It's respecting the sovereignty of other countries. And so, you know, if people come to Australia, they don't get the death penalty. And that's our justice system. You know, it's just a reality of working in the global environment, that you have to accept that not everybody has the same laws, not everybody has the same standards in terms of policing, the same standards in terms of their criminal justice systems, the same proof standards that are required. And people who want to get involved in international crime - and this what this is, international crime - need to understand they subject themselves to the differences, if you like, and in some times the harshness of the international criminal justice systems.

CHRIS MASTERS: According to the Indonesian human rights group Kontras, 15 people were executed in 2005, and there are a further 58 on death row.

MAN: I think for drug offenders in - in the public discourse, the people facing the problems of drugs with their children, with the young generation, so they think that the death penalty can be used to fight against drugs.

USMAN HAMID: I constantly as I get older, you know, I tend to think that we shouldn't have the death penalty for anything, but if you ask me as a professional journalist, my assessment, yes, it has a very strong support among the people here.

CHRIS MASTERS: In Indonesia, the Bali Nine case attracted little interest. If it was followed, like the Schapelle Corby case before it, there was bemusement at Indonesia facing criticism as the result of Australians trafficking drugs.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: Well, I think it was, it was much interest because Ms Corby is an attractive woman. You know, I think it's natural people sort of, "Oh, why such a pretty lady is in such a difficult time?" But then again, you have all these accusations from the Australian, some Australian media, and you think, "Ooh, why is Australians a better two legs than Indonesian two legs?" it's create
a negative reactions.

BUDIMAN TANUREDJO(TRANSLATION): I don't think Indonesia is focusing on whether they're Australian or not, but whoever indeed enters the territory of Indonesia in the unlawful possession of narcotics, they will have to account for that before the law.

CHRIS MASTERS: It's easy to presume Australia's standing in Indonesia following the arrests of Australian drugs traffickers would have taken a substantial hit. Considering the tourists' appetite for sex, drugs and most of all alcohol, you might think the Balinese in particular, however reliant on tourism, have seen too much of the ugly face of Australia.

In general, in Indonesia, it's not quite that simple.

I KETUT SUTARJA "BRUCE", HEAD BARMAN, REUNION CLUB: Australian they're having fun and they can be drunk one time, it's got spew also, but still come back in the morning after, they go, "Hi Bruce, everybody Reunion crew. What's going on last night?" he said, it's having fun, you know? It's very, very good.

MR GRAMPY: The Aussie people, they like to be fun, they like to be serious. But I'm a tour guide, yeah? At the bar, they have to be fun, whatever, they understand what they have to be. I took them to the, to the temple, they respect what I explain about the culture. I took them to shopping, they respect the people. Yeah, at the bargaining, the supermarket, whatever, they still understand. They understand the way they have to be, yeah. This I tell you the true and the honest, I not bullshit.

BAMBANG HARYMURTI: I think if I have to bet my money on it, I would say that I'm more positive because we have so many people who have studied in Australia for long years, so they know the rest of what Australian are really like. So, yes, but every society have their bad apples. But I think I would put my money that people in Indonesia look at Australian more in positive light than a negative light.

CHRIS MASTERS: Meanwhile, the hunt for the remaining bad apples continues, with more associates of the nine being prosecuted in Australia, and the search for the Thai connections continuing further north. Indonesia has been slow to attempt extradition of Cherry Likit Bannakorn, who, when contacted by Four Corners, said for the trouble Andrew Chan had brought her, she wishes him dead.

AMNOYPORN MANEEWAN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR(TRANSLATION): I think she has not been involved in this activity that long. That means she is not one of the big fish, because she is probably not capable to do such things by herself.

CHRIS MASTERS: While confident the operation had its merit, and that the presumed ringleader, Myuran Sukumaran, might have been on his way to bigger things, the trial of the Bali Nine is probably not the case the AFP would have chosen to showcase its international expertise. It's a case where we lift the rug and discover both victims and villains are our own children.

LEE RUSH: I still love Scott extremely, very, very much, and the more I visit him in incarceration here in Indonesia, I feel I'm getting closer to him, and him to me. It's not the place that I would've wished for us to build a stronger relationship, but I do believe it's there, and I still think he's a young Australian that can redeem himself, and enter into the world.

CHRIS MASTERS: When I spoke to Scott Rush on the day he was sentenced to life in an Indonesian jail, he told me the massive publicity about Schapelle Corby facing a death penalty made no impact. Nor, it seems, did the warnings posted in Indonesia.

MICK KEELTY: Rarely in the drug business is there any good news. There's no good news for, for mums and dads, there's no good news for kids, there's no good news for the couriers at the end of the day, and there's no good news for the organisers at the end of the day.

CHRIS MASTERS: Little fish in the drugs war, but big fish in the propaganda war, Myuran Sukamaran and Andrew Chan have had the harshest possible welcome to the real world of international crime.

[End of transcript]

Please note: This transcript is produced by an independent transcription service. The ABC does not warrant the accuracy of the transcript.