Go to RichardDawkins.net | Social | Chat | Store | OUT Campaign | Disclaimer

Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Log in Issues? Having problems? Need help? Perhaps you just have a techie tip or want to share a solution to a problem.

Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby Jason Macker on Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:05 am

Hi I just wanted to say that I take issue to listing that website on the page:
http://richarddawkins.net/atheistResources

That website, while superficially nice, is actually detrimental to the atheist cause. A quick survey of their forum members shows that most of them are right-wingers and/or Christians. Their leader, Ali Sina has said things like:

"Islam is a lie. Its god is a lie and its prophet was a liar. He was not just a liar but also an extremely evil man. Once you strip Christianity from all the fairytales and superstitions, and separate it from the actions of the Church, you see that it contains good teachings. Jesus' teachings are not evil. Once you separate facts from fiction and what the Christians added to Christianity you find the essence of Christianity is love and it is beautiful.

"What will remain of Islam once you separate facts from fiction? Once you discard the ridiculous claim of splitting the moon and climbing to the seventh heaven to bargain with Allah about the number of prayers that Muslims should say during a day and other stupidities like these, you’ll find Islam is nothing but hate, violence, and terror. The psychopath narcissist does not understand love. He understands fear. Islam is based on fear.

"Let me use an imagery to make my point. Think of Christianity as a beautiful sexy woman rapped in ragas. The more you strip her, the prettier she looks. When she is completely naked, she is so attractive you fall in love with her. Now compare Islam to an old witch, ugly and disgusting, but dressed in fanciful clothing and wearing a seductive mask. The more you strip her, the more frightening she looks. Once she removes her mask you want to run away."

But most frightening:

"Most other religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, Bahaism, etc. are mixed bags of good and bad. You can compare them to ore. There is lots of dirt but in the midst of that dirt, there are gems and precious metals.

There is nothing good in Islam. Islam is sheer evil that is sustained by fear. Not only the teachings of Islam are evil, Muhammad was a monster. You cannot say this about the founders of any other major religion. Muhammad was more evil than most cult leaders. He can be compared to Shoko Asahara and Charles Manson. So as you see, there is a fundamental difference between Islam and other religions."

Taken from here.

I think this is problematic, as it marginalizes the criticisms of Christianity (along with other religions) as things that can eventually be overcome. But I think the most serious problem with this idealistic perspective is the "no-true-scotsman" fallacy being used, i.e. "No true Christian would ever be bad! No true Muslim would ever be good". This sort of bigotry is not an appropriate introduction to helping Muslims leave Islam. It seems the stance of the site is "Please allow yourself to believe any delusion, except for Islam." Is that appropriate?

Other things Ali Sina has said:

"Marxism is a hoax"

"As a freethinker I consider it my duty to denounce communism in all its shapes and forms and make it clear that communism is an atheistic dogma/religion which has nothing to do with freethinking and democracy. Despite their claim of being “progressive” communists are regressive, close-minded, reactionary and very dogmatic. Let us also not be fooled by their “anti Islamic” rhetoric. Communists are the natural allies of Islamic terrorists and will stand together whenever their anti Western and anti democratic interests coincide."

"I do not have to believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or any other religion. As long as these religions are tolerant of people with views contrary to theirs I consider their followers my allies."

"Communism is just as intolerant and fascistic as Islam."

"Multiculturalism is a failed paradigm and cultural relativism, the offspring of moral relativism is hypocrisy."

And on and on, from here.

Can the site please be removed from the atheist resources? I don't think replacing one delusion with another is going to help.

Sincerely,
Jason Macker
"Das Wort schon »Christentum« ist ein Missverständnis -, im Grunde gab es nur einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz." - Kapitel 39
Jason Macker
Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Riding on the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Postby Jason Macker on Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:46 am

Is this the wrong forum for this? My apologies, I guess this should have gone in the suggestions forum.
"Das Wort schon »Christentum« ist ein Missverständnis -, im Grunde gab es nur einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz." - Kapitel 39
Jason Macker
Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Riding on the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Postby Jason Macker on Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:36 pm

Anyone else care to offer their thoughts on the matter?
"Das Wort schon »Christentum« ist ein Missverständnis -, im Grunde gab es nur einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz." - Kapitel 39
Jason Macker
Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Riding on the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Postby Jason Macker on Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:11 am

Bump?
"Das Wort schon »Christentum« ist ein Missverständnis -, im Grunde gab es nur einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz." - Kapitel 39
Jason Macker
Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Riding on the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Re: Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby Jason Macker on Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:39 am

Bump again?
"Das Wort schon »Christentum« ist ein Missverständnis -, im Grunde gab es nur einen Christen, und der starb am Kreuz." - Kapitel 39
Jason Macker
Newbie
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: Riding on the Invisible Pink Unicorn

Re: Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby Or Bar on Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:56 am

I agree, take it off the list. How come there hasn't been a reply? How come no one paid this attention?

They're specifically tagging Islam on that forum, but not as a refugee for atheists. It's purely an anti-Islam site with atheism hardly given attention. It's more of a hate-forum with Christianity agenda pushed forward, as if under some veil of atheism. It seems to be where Christians, agnostics and myopic atheists clash against Islam and its terrorism. A distorted, hateful attempt to find a common goal for Christians and atheists. :nono:
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" -Douglas Adams
User avatar
Or Bar
Forum Member
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Ramat-Gan, Israel

Re: Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby mung bean on Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:30 am

You're right that it isn't designed for an atheist resource, even though Ali Sina himself is an atheist.
It is purely an anti-Islam site. If you are against all religions (as opposed to just not believing in them) then obviously you will be against Islam too.
Ali Sina's opinion is that out of all the extant religions Islam is by far the most dangerous.
You can argue about whether he's right or not but his attitude is to deal with the worst problem on the basis that the enemy of his enemy is his friend.
There is no specific Christianity agenda there but there are a lot of Christian members and of course they are under no obligation to be silent about their beliefs.
Some of them are raving nutters and some of them are quite sane. There are also a lot of Hindu and Sikh members. Ditto for them.
If you're looking for a specifically atheist forum then FFI is not it. That said, it can be an interesting place at times.

ETA: Re the hate-site bit, the mods there have long had a liberal free speech policy which basically meant giving everyone enough rope to hang themselves. It did get way out of hand though and after protests by some long standing members who had become disgusted with the direction the place was headed in there has been a bit of a crackdown, as a result of which some of the more extreme members have got the sulks and left.
"You have to love the awesome displays of religious apeshit."


She was heard to say about another set of incredibly bad arguments
"If I wanted that idiot's [WA Dembski's] opinion, I'd read his entrails".
User avatar
mung bean
Forum Member
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Australia

Re: Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby RichardPrins on Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:35 am

admin wrote:Thanks, I've removed this listing. I appreciate the help on this.

Josh
I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things; by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose — which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me. ~ Richard Feynman
User avatar
RichardPrins
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 6737
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:24 am
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: Listing Faithfreedom.org on " Atheist Help & Resour

Postby moizkhan on Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:27 am

Nice find, its always good to weed out stuff like this, and when you're running a huge website like RD.net, you likely wouldn't have the time to thoroughly review every single website you link to. So kudos for the warning. :-D
Image
"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves."
-Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
moizkhan
Newbie
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:11 am
Location: New York


Return to Tech Support & Reports

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot] and 1 guest

Go to RichardDawkins.net | Social | Chat | Store | OUT Campaign | Disclaimer