Penelope, apparently we will have project oriented jobs in the future and move from gig to gig on a regular basis. But I can tell you that, as of today, every recruiter I know has a bias against people who stay too long and people who don’t stay long enough.

3 years is a minimum. 7 years is a max. 5 is ideal.

But you know I like your style and this is a good one to get another 800+ comments.

* * * * * *
I’m happy to see this is the first comment so that we can address this issue right off the bat.

The last link in this post is to one of 100 articles on how generation Y is in the driver’s seat when it comes to hiring. Young people are in too high demand for recruiters to dictate rules of engagement. And this is changing workplace rules for everyone.When recruiters say 3yrs minimum, etc., it’s all realative to what the candidate brings to the table.

There are no hard and fast rules for recruiting except get good candidates. You look at the candidate and decide which rules should apply. Should the no misspellings rule apply? Not necessarily for a top programer whose first language is not english. Should the three years minimum rule apply? Probably not from a second-year Goldman Sachs associate dying to get out of banking. The more stellar a history of performance the fewer rules apply. When so many people are changing jobs frequently, the rule of no job hopping will have to be applied less frequently, to everyone. There will be no other choice. So people should plan their careers accordingly.

Penelope, I find your take on things refreshing. And you’re right: “When so many people are changing jobs frequently, the rule of no job hopping will have to be applied less frequently.”

But we’re not there yet. I’m telling you what I experience as a recruiter here in Toronto now not ten years from now.

Some of the recruiters I work with are real bottom line guys whose only concern is to get openings filled ASAP. But when I bring them a person who has moved around a bit I have to justify his or her moves up and down and all around the block.

Why are they so tough? Because they believe that the client doesn’t want to hire someone who’s looks like he might soon disappear.

If you’re going to make a statement to the contrary, I think you’ll have to back it up with real proof that what you’re saying is true here and now.

And not merely for superstars whom companies will do anything to get but for the ordinary specialists and managers.

There’s a chance that things are different south of the 49th parallel. But I doubt it. Regards.

Penelope, love the post. I get that job hopping when you’re younger is smart. But what about when you’re older? Is the expectation that younger workers will sample a smorgasborg of options, and then pick one? or can the hopping continue indefinately since, as you point out, there’s no golden watch or fat pension reward down the line.

I also concur with Recruiting Animal’s comments, though with a different slant. Given the cost of jobhoppers to an organization’s bottom line, of course some corporations aren’t interested. Maybe the trick is to make recruiting and maintaining talent within an organization cheaper. : )

I love this post and I find it refreshing, probably because I am a job-hopper myself. Although for years I was hopping because I couldn’t seem to find the right job, I’ve finally ’settled’ into freelance work that pretty much guarantees I’ll be hopping forever. Since my skills seem to be in demand, I’m much less worried about my future than I was when I had traditional jobs.

Since you talk about finances, as well as making the most out of in-between times, I will admit that this is my biggest challenge. Although I’m no longer as worried about being able to support myself, I am never 100% sure about whether I’ll be working continuously. Sometimes when I’m not working, I get so worried about the future, that I don’t spend any money to take advantage of my free time. I know I’m not the first freelancer to deal with this, and that there are plenty of plans out there about how to calculate an annual budget for fluctuating income, but so far nothing I’ve read seems to fit my situation very well. So I’m wondering, if this is the new model for work– on again, off again– is there also a new model for personal finances?

Penelope, I absolutely agree with you. I am considered a job hopper, averaging 2-3 years with my last 4 positions since graduating college for reasons ranging from skill set bore-out, searching for the right career for me with a liberal arts degree to relocation with my husband.

We are relocating now and although most job postings ask for 1-3 years experience in my field (Senior Buyer) with documented major accomplishments I have had few responses.

I have now secured a third interview with a company where the division manager stated during the first interview that I only had one thing going against me— All of the jobs that I’ve had!! Of course I skillfully explained my past but it showed me that most gold-watch-lifers (he has been with this company for 20 years) see short-timers as a liability.

I have been in Public Service, larger municipality and state government positions, all of my life and have found it to be very rewarding. There were many internal job/position reassignments along the way over 30+ years.

My son, only child, will be attending an expensive out-of-state college in the Fall 2007 term. I encourage him to seek Federal (DOD) work positons and train toward that goal. He could pursue other avenues, but I believe the benefits of this type of work would be more rewarding, especially in the field of Science/Engineering. This work would probably involve much longer tenured jobs and especially for ME and PhD applicants. I believe the benefits would be greater than if he hopped around.

Have you read “The Why Cafe’”, John P. Strelecky? A story about finding your “Purpose For Existing” (PFE) and seeking your own satisfaction with your life and decisions.

Don - I don’t understand why you’re suggesting a book about finding your “purpose for existing” in the same comment that you claim to be encouraging your son to do what his dad did rather than figure out what he wants to do himself. I think you should be recommending books like that to your teenage son rather than Penelope!

Good article, but we have a ways to go before your philosophy is realized. I do agree that people should worry less about the length of their stay with a company and proactively seek other opportunities as a means to progress their careers. In my experience, I can tell you I have seen a change in the perceptions towards those candidates that change jobs every 2-3 years, but most hiring managers I have dealt with are quick to question those that “hop” jobs.

Personally, I believe this has a lot to do with the demographics of the hiring manager(s). In other words, the baby boomer generation appears less likely to adopt your philosophy while the X and Y generations appear more comfortable with switching jobs more frequently. As the retiring of baby boomers accelerates, I believe your philosophy on changing jobs more frequently will be adopted and accepted as a common practice.

In my 12 years of recruiting experience, I have always been more concerned with why someone chose to leave an organization than how often they changed positions. I do not think anyone will criticize someone for changing positions if it helps advance their career. Then again, I’ve been wrong before. :)

* * * * * *

Jeff, great analysis. Thanks. I think you’re right that the shift will happen in hiring as baby boomers shift out of the workplace. I like to think, though, that the sheer demographic power of Gen Y will force hiring practices to shift faster. Maybe wishful thinking. Maybe this is just a wakeup call to human resource executives that they are holding things up with their antiquated hiring practices…

–Penelope

Penelope - Your comments are always thought provoking, but I have to question your assertion that “Generation Y workers are in incredible demand throughout the workplace.”

I work for a very large technical company, and serve on the job placement committee for a local professional society. I have not observed that employers are particularly looking for Generation Y workers.

What I have observed is that employers are seeking highly skilled technical workers. As it so happens, many of those workers come from Gen Y, but I have never encountered an employer who specifically preferred a Gen Y just because they were Gen Y. But you have to separate the generation from the skill set.

* * * * * *

Steve - It’s not that employers prefer gen Y because they are gen Y per se. It’s that there are more jobs for people with not a lot of experience than there are people to fill them. Additionally, gen Y has already made it’s mark on the workplace by being stellar entrepreneurs, which means even fewer of them are in the workforce at any one time.

–Penelope

One final benefit of job-hopping that bears mentioning:

Job-hopping helps to build your network of contacts (assuming that you don’t burn your bridges every time that you leave).

While it’s possible to network effectively with non-co-workers, the fact is that co-workers who enjoyed working with you are likely to provide strong job leads in the future.

And since most people do little networking outside of the job, staying inside one organization is a perfect recipe for building your specific value to that organization while letting your general value to other organizations wither on the vine.

This is a very interesting post, and the comments make it even more so. I definitely agree that Penelope’s prediction will be realized as more baby boomers retire and are doing less of the hiring. I just started a job where there are lots of “lifers” or company men, who are definitely still of the mindset that job hopping shows a lack of loyalty to the company, and its a small miracle they were able to overlook the several instances on my resume.
At the same time, however, the company I work for is a trade association that represents an industry made up almost entirely of baby boomers, and company perpetuation is the almost always their #1 concern. They’re placing a lot of emphasis on attracting Gen Ys to the industry (yes, they’re targeted specifically), but I feel like there’s a disconnect between the company men who are working on this problem and the young entrepreneurs they’re trying to attract. I’m interested to see how entire industries, like this one, will have to change to accomodate this new way of thinking.

I’m surprised Penelope and no one commenting so far has mentioned the possibility of job hopping within a company.

This has the advantage of giving you new challenges without the disadvantage on your resume of looking like a hiring liability.

Recruiting and retention is a key challenge in many companies. To help, many offer opportunities for staff to try new roles within a company or organization.

***

Another point no one has raised: Job hopping a few times in your 20s is cool, and won’t be a serious resume liability. If you’re still job hopping annually at age 35 or 40 — and are not a freelance / contractor type — I can’t see how you’re likely to be considered for good, well-paying or flexible, creative or management type positions that require multi-year commitments to projects and clients. (Yes, there will be exceptions, but most of us will not be the exception).

One thing I didn’t see mentioned here - develop a clearly defined specialty to be in demand.

As a boomer with 30 years hybrid experience in marketing communications/public relations and a job hopper for various reasons, I find team lead boxes on the org chart now being filled with specialists generally my junior in terms of overall career experience. Have I done what they do now? Yes. But I didn’t do just that, so it’s the specialist that wins the day.

Thank goodness there are still positions that benefit from the ability to see the big picture - which specialists often can’t. It’s a good idea to avoid ‘one tool’ syndrome…if the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.

At 28, I’ve been with the same company (different positions) for five years…because I like it! Is this bad?

Penelope, love the post. I’d like more employers think about their management practices. 100-hour work weeks, dull jobs, miserly managers, etc. do little to benefit a company or its employees.

Perhaps, as a response to job hoppers and the high cost of retraining, companies might become more enlightened — and thus job hopping would become less prevalent with more internal opportunity, flexibility, etc.

Gen X managers might make the workplace a very different environment, so that people aren’t staying for the gold watch, but instead staying because they are still engaged.

Wendy, Don did mention job-hopping within the same firm for 30 years. But when a company reorganizes and kicks you out after 20 years outsiders won’t see you as a job hopper with varied experience. They’ll see an unambitious coaster who served time in a large, undemanding bureaucratic firm.

Chris had an interesting point about dangerously narrowing the range of your experience by staying in one place so long. It’s a bit like survival of the fittest. You have to be adaptable to new situations and if you have invested too deeply in one, you’re a goner.

Fascinating post.

I was surprised to hear so many reports of stodgy employers who question frequent job changes. It makes me think they have other reasons for rejecting the applicant, reasons they don’t want to share, so they hit on “job hopping.”

And what about the difference between moving from job to job while employed, as opposed to periods of unemployment during which the person is looking for work, trying to explain away the many jobs? I do believe employers would be far less critical of the first method. Then they could feel good about themselves for stealing away a valued worker from a rival.

I entirely agree that we need to be responsible for our own financial futures. Counting on a pension (or, God forbid, Social Security) was never a good idea, not even in the second half of the 20th century, which people now seem to be viewing with some sort of nostalgia. The good old days were never that good, really.

Sticking with a job you hate just for “security” is a mistake now, and was a mistake then. It’s a recipe for misery.

In my 40 years of work experience, job hopping never hurt me. At least not that I knew of! In any case, people who would question a lot of job changes would not be the kind of people I’d want to work with/for anyway. Penelope is right in that job hopping is going to become more and more the accepted norm. Those old stodgy dinosaurs will soon die out.

Great post. You get people’s attention with a controversial suggestion, then follow up with concrete steps that are actually pretty challenging to master. It’s not like you are saying people can just decide that they are perennial short timers and expect to be stable. But if you 1) get good at managing your employment and 2) get great at managing expectations, I can see how it would be more stable.

1) expertise - when you can carve out something you are objectively good at, it give you “liquid assets.” “He’s a database guru” is better than “We don’t know what we would do without him.” At the end of the day, no one is irreplaceable. “miracle worker” status is non-transferable.

2) transition - after working nearly 5 years at one company, I felt like I sort of forgot about the whole dues paying, proving yourself routine. New people don’t know about the allnighters you pulled at the last job and they don’t know how great you are. Even if you’re not an arrogant bozo, it is easy to forget that you need to establish your credibility. So getting good at transition is something you need even if you don’t set out to “job hop.” Who wants to have to waste 3 months just demonstrating to people that you are not an idiot?!

3) Taking a pause between jobs? Sorry, maybe after my kids are in college and I have a couple years salary in the bank. Taking a few weeks off with nothing lined up can easily turn into a few months or longer. People survive it, but who needs that stress!

4) Dues paying…see above and the miracle worker fallacy. If you can transition well, you don’t need to pay dues. People who are “paying their dues” are wasting their time if they believe their willingness to do crap work that nobody else wants to do enhances their status. Of course, you shouldn’t be saying “that’s not my job” and you should be saying “what can I do to help?” but if you only feel like you are paying your dues, you may be the only one who thinks so. It’s expected. What else are you doing?

5) Amen to finances. But don’t forget health insurance. How do you crack that nut? If you have a family, that is at least $1000/month expense you cannot afford not to have. If you own a home in an expensive area (Boston, New York, SF, etc.) figure in mortgage and all and even if you live frugally, you face at least a $5K/month subsistence expense. Add in health care and you can literally feel the burn rate. On the other hand, why is it that I felt I could only take 3 days off between jobs and yet we were somehow able to float two mortgages for 5 months?

I’m not saying these things cannot be addressed…actually, I think they have to be addressed even if you plan to stay at your company for a long time. In that case, dealing with these challenges just liberates you to perform your job without fear of losing it.

I find this post funny in the light of your other posts on happiness and I’m going to call you on the contradictions.

Since $40K should be enough to deliver happiness, why focus on getting a better job? Doesn’t this encourage maximalist thinking? Once you have an acceptable job, why not focus on other aspects of your life and take career changes as they come?

Someone who has a decent job and stays at it may end up earning half as much as someone who hops around a lot. But should it really matter?

Of course, I’m a maximalist so I’m not interested in being happy, just successful. :)

* * * * * *

Job hoppers are happier doing their work because their work is more intresting and contributes more to personal growth. Job hoppers create a stability for themselves that lalmost guarantees they won’t have to worry about that $40,000. That’s why job hopping is good. The jury is still out on whether job hopping gets you more money — probably depends on the hopper.

–Penelope

Great idea and really an eye-opener as I am in the intersection of work and life as well. I have been working in a company for 8 years and I am thinking of changes now. This post really gives me a lot encouragement. But I still struggled how to balance the work and personal life as a mother of two small kids. Will frequent job hopping (esp. moving from one city to another city) create an instable environment for the kids? I am still kind of worried…

I am a Nigerian. I have had cause to change jobs quite often. It was not the initial career plan. The initial plan was to be in a place for at least 5 years but restructurings, mergers, uncondusive working environments where your employers dont have any plans for your present and future apart from their own and market turbulences changed all that. Also, observing nasty things happening to people around and before you who tried to be loyal and long serving employees. Employers should stop complaining. you reap what you sow. Employers are never loyal so they should not expect same. Life is two ways.They do away with employees at the slightest opportuinity and they cry wolf when it is done to them. A proverb says since the hunter has learnt to shoot without missing the bird too has learnt to fly without perching. It is hard getting a moving target. It is about personal survival,development and growth.

Wow! That article made so much sense to me and makes me feel so much better about being a 29 year-old about to leave my 5th job in 7 years. I thought being a job-hopper was such a character default but I’m actually just trying professions out until I find my passion in life. I agree that money is not the end-all-be-all in a great career. I quit a job where I was making $20K per month because I was far from happy. I am so glad I found your site today! Wish me luck in finding a job I love.

what a flopperplonk article. This one makes no sense whatsoever. These job-hoppers are know-nothings who think they have picked up skills in their short span at given company, but all they have done is bring some excitement into the work place (no complaints there) and their lives (not my business any way), but make no mistake - they learn very little. I work with many of these job-hoppers, and you can tell based on the stupid decisions they make every day (and with a laugh!). Absolutley no idea or don’t even care about the consequences of their actions, they take no responsibility for their mess and look to take credit every chance they get (it’s hilarious when you see two job-hoppers fight for credit when someone says “good job” to the most trivial of tasks). Penelope Trunk is yet another floater, and the media is lapping up her drivel as advice.

-bunzi

While I won’t go so far as attacking Penelope personally, Bunzi makes some good points.

Those committed only to ‘building their skills and moving on’ seem, to me, to be missing the point. The workplace isn’t about you. It’s about the work, the mission, the goal. If you’re with an organization that’s doing something you can’t get behind, get out. Find one that’s got a direction you can get excited about. Or, to put it another way, committment to something outside yourself.

Is it more important than family and work/life balance, and all that stuff? No. That’s not what I’m trying to say. Just that if you’re going to go to work, then go with some desire to do it well. Bring something with you beyond your lunch in a brown sack.

Hi Penelope,
I noticed a lot of your blogs are tailored towards gen y, do you have any words of wisdom for gen x? I don’t have a MBA and I’ve been an individual contributor for my entire career. Am I doomed? Will gen y pass me up? What steps should I take now to ensure success and a leadership role in the future. BTW, I’m now in my early 30’s.

* * * * * *

Carina,
This is a great issue you bring up. I think the key is to be careful which companies you work at. If there are boomers everywhere, and they are smug about their 900 years of experience and their spot on the hierarchy then I would stay away. There are plenty of smaller companies run by Gen X-ers or open-minded boomers that are less hierarchical and more open to new ways of doing things. This is the kind of company where a Gen-xer is least likely to get squashed between generations, I think.

-Penelope

Carina, consider what you want to do and develop some internal measurements of what you consider success. We babyboomers had a different measurement, which is why so many cling to our spot on the hierarchy…for us, that IS success.

And for those of us who are now cube dwellers with no direct reports, there is a sense of loss and frustration. We went from ‘command and control’ to ‘command and cajol.’ That said, I’m making more now than I ever did as a manager with a lot less aggravation.

The only ability to influence most of us have is based on the quality of our ideas, how we present them, and our ability to link them to the overall goals of the business.

If you can come up with new ideas and successfully tell truth to those in power, it doesn’t matter if there are a bunch of youngsters coming up behind you. That’s the way of the world. There always will be. And sure, they can be annoying. They expect to be treated as equals, regardless of how much experience they have. Comments like ‘900 years of experience’ are something of a slap in the face, but in the end if you do the best work you know how to, it will be appreciated and rewarded. Be judged by your actions and attitude.

More on ‘being open to new ideas…’

It’s easy to see it in terms of being 30 or 50 or whatever. But that’s not a really helpful framework, if only because it doesn’t really address the issue. Consider the Kirton Adaption-Innovation Inventory, which addresses adaption vs. innovation. It creates an an awareness of how people prefer to use their creativity as they solve problems. In brief, adaptors are creative inside the box; innovators are creative outside the box.

From what I’ve seen, that makes a lot more difference than age. The link is to the KAI Centre…no endorsement implied, it’s just for background.

Penelope,

Changing jobs every year or two is horrible! Should we all keep our possesions in backpacks? We can lead the nomadic hunter-gatherer existence from 20,000 years ago. We can also live 6 people to an apartment like our new guests from the South. Nice optimism! How can you say that the young people should embrace job hopping? That may be the depressing reality, and I truly feel sorry for the masses, believe me I do. I would advise young people to find a skill and defined career: plumber, carpenter, computer guy, auto detailer, teacher…etc. This nebulous changing jobs isn’t going to work for people, at least it never would have worked for me. Try to get into one of the last unionized jobs: plumber, cop, fireman, teacher, and you will be better off. How are you going to move and change jobs every two years with a family???? This really is a postmodern world, and it is terrible and tragic for those who have to suffer through the mindless corporate crap. This country is all about Cronyism, who you know. If you don’t have wealthy, influential friends forget business!!
Being a policeman will be especially needed as will prison guard. Being a teacher in the innercity is like being a prison guard. It is a Brave New World! Good luck! Sugar coating the lack of stability in today’s workplace tell me that you (Penelope) are not intellectual enough to be leading this discussion. I wonder what your (real) job would be if you weren’t leading this ridiculous (crazy optimistic) worthless blog. Maybe that’s the point.

best regards,
John

John,

You made a very good point, by stating your opinions and it may even differ from some of the counter-points here.

But what I just don’t understand is why you would personally attack Penelope. What does that have to do with the ongoing discussion? What does that say about your own intelligence?

I was reading along and understand everything you have to say about the job-hoppers, but Penelope’s article made a good point (at least to open up the forum for discussions), and I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions and experiences.

Haven’t you heard the adage “Don’t shoot the messenger”?

I maintain three primary businesses and a few ever changeing sidelines I tell you this: it helps to keep finding new endeavors.

Sticking with one skillset stagnates the mind. You get bored. You lose the edge.

Corporatewise, it then makes sense to juggle different careers. If simultaneous is not possible, then do so every ten years.

This helps you grow as a person.

I forgot to ad: and make sure you intersperse a lot of play with your career.

so clear,

my jobhopping has to do with something else too. I pinpointed a very high dream, and i’m working my way to it. I think this is essential to make the jobhopping make sence. To me it seems ships with no goal allways have the wind blowing from the wrong side.
if you have a dream or strong goal , every decision makes more sence .

in Belgium (where i live )job-hopping is considered bad,
this is the feeling i get whenever i decide to change my job because i feel i get the information and skills i needed to move on.

the way penelope explains the subject is as clear as fresh spring water.

i guess the people who oppose the idea of jobhopping didn’t get the idea that there is no more golden parachute. ( in belgium at 65! )
It’s like the babyboom generation is deaf or in denial on this subject.
why would someone work hard and be a yes-saying guy to get some cash at 65 ?
first you don’t need the cash at 65 because the children can take care of themselves by then and by 65 you might not even make it.

ps you americans really make a lot of sence!

I love this post, I have been in state government positions some years ago, but I didnt get rewarding in this field. Sometimes I get worried about the future and becouse i didn’t spend my money to take advantage of my free time. Now i’m freelancer and i can control my time and lifestyle. While my skills in demand i dont worry about my feature.

I frequently suggest to my clients that wholistic growth is correlated to job shifting every 6 to 10 years. Doing the same thing for extended periods- even if you’ve already reached AVP or VP level- can dull the mind.

Don’t worry about core competency when shifting. You’ll develop new ones on the job!

I thought of something better- instead of shifting jobs or jumping careers, why not take the entrepreneural route? Think of the benefits: you control your time and all profits are yours to maximize.

As an employee, your income is an expense being minimized by the company