STRIKE TO STUN FORUM

Mournstorm · Initiate Joined: 18 Aug 2002 Posts: 107 Location: USA

Or you could try it this way:

Didz wrote:

Didz · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject:

Wolf · Adept Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 668

My quote function doesn't seem to work either.

On the Dwarf Wizards issue, isn't the main point about it how it reflects a simplification of the game meaning that it now lacks a subtlety it had before? In v1 Dwarf wizards were pretty rare creatures. Their lack of aptitude for magic reflected in lower magic points and their background could easily support the sort of cultural attitudes Didz mentions. In v2 the rules now seem to ban any Dwarf or Halfling magic users.

Alea Jacta Est · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:

That's what I always thought.
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Didz · Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:

Posted by Wolf

Aldred Fellblade · Adept Joined: 06 Apr 2005 Posts: 659 Location: Albion

I agree with Higa that mechanics are important, sorry if we're not purist enough for you dirach, and the combat rules in v.2 were anathema to me. Mechanics can be important as they provide a basis upon which everything rests. When it comes to the business end of what happens to your character the players are depending on the mechanics. The v.2 combat rules are too mechanical IMO.

dirach,
As for the Empire background not having changed much I think you should look at the 'Ruling an Empire' thread and see the differences in background we came up with there. The differences between Didz and myself (for instance) there were largely the result of him using some of the WFB4 material and me not having done so, we both used TEW as our primary source. The changes to the Empire background could be considerable when taking up the v.2 material as well. You may say this are minor changes (as you have about the disappearance of an entire province in the past) but I disagree. If you play TEW you are likely to mix in high politics at some point and if you continue on from the campaign this is likely to increase.
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dirach · Initiate Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 262 Location: Norway

Wolf · Adept Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 668

v1 had the Electoral Province of Suddenland. There have been suggestions that Solland is its equivalent in the new background.

Chuck · Initiate Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Utah

Higa · Initiate Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 148

I think Chuck is on the spot here. There are indeed RPG's for which one easily could switch systems, but then there are good RPG's where the designers creates the rules which reflects what is given away in the background.

Hence, one cannot have a background telling that wizards is heavily drained from using magic, and then dont let this show in the system (this was an example, I actually dont think of v2 now, just a general statement). Or to state that even heroes should be aware the swords of goblins and then let the PC's get heaps of Hit Points, etc etc.

I remember the playtest and how some playtesters often pointed out that - expecially the magic system - some things in the background was not reflected by the v2-rules.

Is it possible to run every setting with any rules? Well, yes, it is - but with some systems (such as warhammer with d20, or indeed Paranoia) it would demand huge amount of rethinking and work - it would almost be like creating a new game in the end, I guess.
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draeron · Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:02 am Post subject:

Higa Wrote:

Black Knight · Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:47 am Post subject:

Gareth · Initiate Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 128

I just started a new campaign a few weeks ago, useing v2 rules with v1 background. I am tempted to go back to v1 rules, but the players are pretty set on sticking w/v2.

As far as v2, all in all I am pretty disappointed in the direction v2 has gone.

hallucyon · Initiate Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 152 Location: Poland

Like many of you, I began my explorations of the Old World with v1 being my faithful companion. Albeit editorially poor, it offered something none other could compete with: a grim world of perilous adventure. Its universe, though heavily influenced by European history and geography, was full of its own, unique flavours which ensured that it was neither a facsimile of early renaissance Europe nor a blend of hackneyed fantasy ideas. Instead, Jim Bambra, Graeme Davis and Phil Gallagher somehow managed to concoct the most delicious roleplaying dish one could ever be offered to taste. People quickly lost their hearts to the Old World.

As teenagers my friends and I used to set off for the Empire twice or even thrice a week. Our journeys were long, gruesome, but absorbing. At that time we've travelled the furthest corners of Sigmar's fatherland and delved into the darkest depths of Human minds. Unfortunately, impeding studies scattered our party to the four winds. Our Warhammer World fell into disrepair.

Years were passing by, consecutive publishers failed to fulfill fans' sophisticated demands, and eventually the line ceased to exist. Dark Ages began. Small groups of fans, dispersed all over the world, contrived to organise themselves by means of the web. A community that has risen as a result supported the game with unofficial products, many of them being paramount to the official ones. Their activity had its peaks and troughs but the fire of ardour has never been put out.

I wish I had had a chance to join them at that time...

A few steps past the threshold of the twenty-first century the community was stirred up by the news of the line being raised from the dead: the original publisher had decided to release the game again. Editors of the second edition ruled that WFRP timeline should be consistent with that of WFB which resulted in introduction of the Storm of Chaos. Playtesters, among whom there were several v1 veterans, groaned with dismay. The Old World has changed its face.

Shortly after graduation I decided to get back to the Empire. Totally oblivious of the market's events I was considering purchase of an original English v1 rulebook. A friend of mine learnt of my plans and convinced me to wait a few months for the second edition. I did. Every week I popped in to BI's website to download the rulebook's previews. Whole weekends I dedicated to meticulous study and subsequent discussion of that few pdfs. We were astonished to learn of Karl Franz's successful reigns in the second decade of the twenty-sixth century -- it turned out that keeping continuity with v1 had not been the publisher's objective! None the less, we were trustful and anxiously expected the release...

I think I was among those gamers who were the first in Poland to get their hands on the new rulebook. Like a doddery old man is unable to fasten his belt properly, I experienced similar difficulties in opening the package. As soon as I eventually managed to unwrap the book, I plunged into reading. I remember it as if that was yesterday: after a sleepless night I went to work where, what an irony!, someone remarked I looked like a zombie!

It took me almost a fortnight to study the rulebook and design my first adventure after a years long gap without Warhammer. Excited like little boys we sat down and played our first session which actually launched a short, self-concocted campaign. A few months passed when we realised that we missed something -- something vague and therefore difficult to define but in the meantime intimately inherent in the Old World. Another few months elapsed and we knew that the second edition lacked that specific blend of grimness and mockery. With Chaos undivided and ubiquitous the Old World emerged as strikingly crystal clear. The whole spectrum of grey has been somehow lost in the fires of BI's forge.

And so a few weeks ago I decided to get back to the original face of the Old World. No WFB-ish Storm of Chaos, no Archaon. The Empire thrives and its once ever-vigilant people begin to deny the presence of The Enemy Within...

Yesterday I picked my own English copy of TEW and SoB. Now I know that good old Warhammer has really come back!
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Gareth · Initiate Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 128

"With Chaos undivided and ubiquitous the Old World emerged as strikingly crystal clear. The whole spectrum of grey has been somehow lost in the fires of BI's forge. "

WIth this handful of words, you summed up it all up, rather nicely.

Higa · Initiate Joined: 30 Sep 2005 Posts: 148

I wonder how many Old Timers who have actually gone back fully, or partially to v1 at this moment - of left the game for other games?

The postings here and at BI do not any longer have the same frequency of Old Timers as it had a year ago... is this an indication that many people left v2 behind?

For my part, I have turned my back on WFRP (both editions) for now... I will -. of course - take it up again in 6 months or a year or so, re-entering the Old World in its original (and best) version: the v1.

But first I must let some time pass pass to cleanse out all things v2 from my mind.

Luckily for me - there are heaps of good RPG out there to spend my time on in the meanwhile.
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Didz · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:

Chuck · Initiate Joined: 21 Nov 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Utah

I just finished reading "Robin's Laws of Good Gamemastering" (I highly recommend it) where he gives definitions of each type of gamer. A thought struck me: WFRP v1 was written for the "story-teller" type gamer and v2 has a greater emphasis on the "butt-kicker" gamer. Story-teller narratives can be done with v2 but v1 offers richer possibilities. I wonder if the v1-v2 debate all boils down to the type of GM and gamer each version plays to.
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Nahuris · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject:

I think that we finally hit the nail on the head.....
In the other thread with this topic in general discussion.... I mentioned that the cults all rose up to support Archaon, ect... and was pointedly told that the words printed in the book were mistaken.

The chaos undivided was kind of a let down.... suddenly all the little cultists had their day (although the orcs stopped them.... meaning, that the orcs did what the empire couldn't.......) and we are left with the emptyness that is left.......

Not only that, but one of the few things the empire had going for it was the fact that Korne hated Tziench, and Slaanesh wasn't really liked by anyone. Now.... we have Slaanesh bedding Nurgle, and Korne and Tziench getting together for lunch..... and all of them happy to pour the blessings on one champion.... which kind of defeats Korne's usual method of constant challenge to build his followers..... but that's ok, I am sure he is happy to compromise.....LOL.

Some of the most fun adventures that I ever played were those where our party got stuck in a situation that really didn't include us.... like accidentally helping the lord of changes (we were hired to do a prison break by a lesser noble to get his illegitimate son out before it was revealed that it was indeed an illegitimate son.) However, the noble was a follower of the lord of changes, and the son was a devotee of Slaanesh, and of course.... the son's cult had a rescue planned too. Imagine our surprise..... both sides assumed that we were supporting the other, and both cults were moving to get rid of us, while making sure it didn't trace back and attract any witch-hunters, and also ensure that we weren't helping the other cult....... Meanwhile, due to the fact that both sides were trying to get rid of us..... we were wanted by the city militia..... who declaring Martial Law, had closed the city down........

Fortunately, one of us had enough disguise skill to keep us in food while this was going on........

Good times.....

Nahuris
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