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It's the sun
Climate's changed before
There is no consensus
Surface temp is unreliable
Models are unreliable
Al Gore got it wrong
Ice age predicted in the 70's
CO2 lags temperature
Mars is warming
Global warming is good
View All Arguments...


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Models are unreliable

The skeptic argument...

"Models solve the equations of fluid dynamics and do a very good job of describing the fluid motions of the atmosphere and the oceans. They do a very poor job of describing the clouds, the dust, the chemistry and the biology of fields, farms and forests. They do not begin to describe the real world that we live in. They are full of fudge factors that are fitted to the existing climate, so the models more or less agree with the observed data. But there is no reason to believe that the same fudge factors would give the right behaviour in a world with different chemistry, for example in a world with increased CO2 in the atmosphere," he states. (Source: Freeman Dyson)

What the science says...

There are two major questions in climate modelling - can they accurately reproduce the past and can they successfully predict the future?

Reproducing the past

A way to test the accuracy of models is through hindcasting - see whether they successfully predict what has been observed over the past century. Here is the IPCC model of surface temperature from the 1800's - both with and without anthropogenic forcings.

The key point is that all the models fail to predict recent warming without taking rising CO2 levels into account. Noone has created a general circulation model that can explain climate's behaviour over the past century without CO2 warming.

Another way to look at it is multiple studies (both using models and independently) calculate a climate sensitivity of around 3°C (Hegerl 2006, Annan 2006, Tung 2007). In other words, global temperatures would warm 3°C if CO2 was doubled. To deny anthopogenic warming, you need to not only explain what's causing global warming but also explain why increasing CO2 isn't causing the expected and observed warming. More on climate sensitivity...

Predicting/projecting the future

A common argument heard is "scientists can't even predict the weather next week, how can they predict the climate years from now". This betrays a misunderstanding of the difference between weather, which is chaotic and unpredictable and climate which is weather averaged out over time. While you can't predict with certainty whether a coin will land heads or tails, you can predict the statistical results of a large number of coin tosses. Or expressing that in weather terms, you can't predict the exact route a storm will take but the average temperature and precipitation will result the same for the region over a period of time.

Climate projection is a difficult and ever refining art. There's the problem that future behaviour of the sun is very difficult to predict. Similarly, short term perturbations like El Nino or volcanic eruptions are difficult to model. Nevertheless, climate scientists have a handle on the major drivers of climate. Way back in 1988, James Hansen projected future temperature trends (Hansen 1988). Those initial projections show remarkable agreement with observation right to present day (Hansen 2006). Hansen even speculated on a volcanic eruption in 1995 but missed the date by a few years (we'll cut him some slack there).

The image “http://www.realclimate.org/images/Hansen06_fig2.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

Hansen's Scenario B (described as the most likely option and in hindsight, the one that most closely matched the level of CO2 emissions) shows close correlation with observed temperatures. In fact, Hansen overestimated future CO2 levels by 5 to 10% so if his model was given the correct forcing levels, the match would be even closer. There are deviations from year to year but this is to be expected. The chaotic nature of weather will add noise to the signal but the overall trend is predictable. More on predicting the future...

Other results successfully predicted and reconstructed by models

  • Cooling of the stratosphere
  • Warming of the lower, mid, and upper troposphere
  • Warming of ocean surface waters (Cane 1997)
  • Trends in ocean heat content (Hansen 2005)
  • An energy imbalance between incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared radiation (Hansen 2005)
  • Amplification of warming trends in the Arctic region (NASA observations)

Uncertainties in future projections

The other misconception is that climate models are biased towards exagerating CO2 effects. Uncertainty could go either way - catastrophic climate surprises are as likely to occur as smaller-than-expected changes. Many current models don't take into account positive feedback systems such as melting permafrost releasing additional greenhouse gases or warming oceans releasing more CO2. For example:

  • IPCC projections fail to take into account non-linear feedback effects like melting ice causing a loss of albedo which further accelerates warming. Analysis of past sea levels shows instances of 'albedo flips' that spark rapid climate change (Hansen 2007)
  • IPCC sea level projections may have "substantially underestimated the contribution of small glaciers and ice caps" to rising sea levels (Meier 2007)
  • Actual CO2 emissions from 2000 to 2004 are higher than any rate used in IPCC emissions scenarios (Global Carbon Project)

Do we know enough to act?

There is a notion that we should wait till models are 100% sure and get it perfectly right before we act on reducing CO2 emissions. If we waited for that, we would never act. Models are in a constant state of improvement as they include more processes, rely on fewer approximations and increase their resolution as computer power develops. The complex and non-linear nature of climate means there will always be refinements and subtleties to be included.

The main point is we know enough to act. Models have evolved to the point where they successfully predict long term trends and are always improving on predicting the more chaotic, short term changes. Multiple lines of evidence tell us global temperatures will change 3°C with a doubling of CO2. The uncertainty is ±1°C degree but this uncertainty is decreasing (and the climate sensitivity of 3°C reaffirmed) as new studies refine our understanding.

Models don't need to be exact in every respect to give us an accurate overall trend and its major effects - and we have that now. If you knew there was a 10% chance you'd be in a car crash, you'd wear a seatbelt. In fact, if there was any possibility, you'd still do it. The IPCC consider it at least 90% sure humans are causing global warming. Considering the negative impacts of global warming, to wait for 100% certainty before acting is recklessly irresponsible.

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Further reading

  1. Look at plate 1 in Hansen's 88 paper, the model includes the oceans. Hansen's Scenario C is the one that most closely matches the "Land – Ocean" temperature.

    John Cook wrote:
    "A way to test the accuracy of models is through hindcasting - see whether they successfully predict what has been observed over the past century."

    Not true for any model. All that shows is they can fit the model to the history. That is beside the point as the IPCC does not claim that the models can predict anything.

    John Cook wrote:
    "The key point is that all the models fail to predict recent warming without taking rising CO2 levels into account."

    Given enough "tunable parameters" that should come as no surprise. The modelers also assume that there is some positive feedback, there is no proof that this is the case. Here is one for you straight from the IPCC, Chapter 8, page 596:

    "The number of degrees of freedom in the tuneable parameters is less than the number of degrees of freedom in the observational constraints used in model evaluation."

    IOW, the models are nothing more then sophisticated curve fits.

    Calling the models "predictions" does not instill confidence that you have done your homework.

    Kevin E. Trenberth
    http://blogs.nature.com/climatefeedback/2007/06/predictions_of_climate.html
    "In fact there are no predictions by IPCC at all. And there never have been. The IPCC instead proffers “what if” projections of future climate that correspond to certain emissions scenarios."

    And from the same letter:
    "Even if there were, the projections are based on model results that provide differences of the future climate relative to that today. None of the models used by IPCC are initialized to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models correspond even remotely to the current observed climate. In particular, the state of the oceans, sea ice, and soil moisture has no relationship to the observed state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models."

    John Cook wrote:
    "Satellite measurements show that the troposphere is warming"

    The models predict that the troposphere should warm faster then the surface, it isn't.
    [ Response: Re tropospheric warming, I recommend reading Satellite show little to no warming in the troposphere. The argument over "prediction" vs "projection" is semantics. Kevin Trenberth is merely saying we don't know with certainty what future emissions will be so we make predictions based on various emission scenarios. However, lest it be a stumbling block, I'll update the text. Thanks for the feedback! ]
  2. Models are the biggest gun in the arsenal for AGW. What people like Dyson are telling us is that the models use assumptions that are not validated by observation and that cannot account for many known effects. The models might be right but they haven't got a good track record except in hind sight. (After they've been fudged to fit the past) Someday they will probably be good they are better than 20 years ago.
  3. I recommend this paper and it references for this section as well

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~glrmc/2007%2005-03%20AusIMM%20corrected.pdf
  4. Will Nitschke (www.capitaloffice.com.au) at 21:50 PM on 20 December, 2007
    Leaving aside the silly notion that you can 'prove' a model's accuracy by checking it's fitting to the historical record--I mean honestly, you are aware that these models are tweaked *until* they fit the historical record, aren't you? The past is not the problem.

    The Hansen forecast sounded impressive, so I looked over the paper and did some googling. There is definitely a different spin on the accuracy of the forecast. Discussed here:

    http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=796

    which demonstrates that scenario B is nowhere near the perfect fit implied by your article or Hansen. Hansen could be right, but he doesn't seem to explain where he is getting his data from. I can only find vague references to 'Station Data' and 'Land-Ocean'. What data is it he is using? How has it been adjusted? At least the sceptical article above is up front on where the data is coming from. This doesn't prove that Hansen is wrong. But it doesn't leave one with a high degree of confidence either.
  5. Well, here is NASA telling us there is no meaningful comparison of models to observed global temp change
    "The analysis by Hansen et al. (2005), as well as other
    recent studies (see, e.g., the reviews by Ramaswamy
    et al. 2001; Kopp et al. 2005b; Lean et al. 2005; Loeb
    and Manalo-Smith 2005; Lohmann and Feichter
    2005; Pilewskie et al. 2005; Bates et al. 2006; Penner
    et al. 2006), indicates that the current uncertainties
    in the TSI and aerosol forcings are so large that they
    preclude meaningful climate model evaluation by
    comparison with observed global temperature change.
    These uncertainties must be reduced significantly for
    uncertainty in climate sensitivity to be adequately con-
    strained (Schwartz 2004). Helping to address this chal-
    lenging objective is the main purpose of the National
    Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glory
    mission, a remote sensing Earth-orbiting observatory"

    http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/88/5/pdf/i1520-0477-88-5-677.pdf
  6. Will Nitschke (www.capitaloffice.com.au) at 12:13 PM on 9 January, 2008
    Here is an interesting quote from IPPC's AR4 found in chapter 1:

    "The strong emphasis placed on the realism of the simulated base state provided a rationale for introducing ‘flux adjustments’ or ‘flux corrections’ (Manabe and Stouffer, 1988; Sausen et al., 1988) in early simulations. These were essentially empirical corrections that could not be justified on physical principles, and that consisted of arbitrary additions of surface fluxes of heat and salinity in order to prevent the drift of the simulated climate away from a realistic state. The National Center for Atmospheric Research model may have been the first to realise non-flux-corrected coupled simulations systematically, and it was able to achieve simulations of climate change into the 21st century, in spite of a persistent drift that still affected many of its early simulations. Both the FAR and the SAR pointed out the apparent need for flux adjustments as a problematic feature of climate modelling (Cubasch et al., 1990; Gates et al., 1996).

    By the time of the TAR, however, the situation had evolved, and about half the coupled GCMs assessed in the TAR did not employ flux adjustments. That report noted that ‘some non-flux adjusted models are now able to maintain stable climatologies of comparable quality to flux-adjusted models’ (McAvaney et al., 2001). Since that time, evolution away from flux correction (or flux adjustment) has continued at some modelling centres, although a number of state-of-the-art models continue to rely on it."

    A 'flux adjustment' is where you discover that the model's predictions start to vary so much from the historical record that you have to go in and change the values inside the software to re-fit the model to what's actually happening. Very confidence inspiring. And what does 'a number of' mean? 50%? 20%? 80%? How many of these models are manually fiddled with to get them to continue to work...?
  7. Will Nitschke (www.capitaloffice.com.au) at 08:32 AM on 18 January, 2008
    Here is another posting assessing Hansen's model work in a not very favourable way:

    Whether these alternate assessments of Hansen's work stand up is a separate issue. I would point out we should not accept them blindly any more than we should blindly accept Hansen's paper on how brilliant Hansen's previous work was, as this naive article does...
  8. "The models might be right but they haven't got a good track record except in hind sight. (After they've been fudged to fit the past)"

    "Leaving aside the silly notion that you can 'prove' a model's accuracy by checking it's fitting to the historical record--I mean honestly, you are aware that these models are tweaked *until* they fit the historical record, aren't you?"

    Nonsense. Are you saying that Hansen, way back in 1988, was able to travel in a time machine to 2006 and back, so that he could make the adjustments to his 1988 models to make them agree all the way to the present?

    The denialists have nothing but nonsense.
  9. Oh, and ClimateAudit is a barrel of laughs:

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/01/climate_audit_comedy_of_errors.php
  10. And besides, if models can be "fudged" to fit anything -- as our `skeptics' claim -- why are the _same_ `skeptics' saying that they can't get Hansen's model to fit the data?

    Can it be because our `skeptics' are simply full of junk?
  11. Wondering Aloud at 10:25 AM on 8 February, 2008
    No, we are saying that Hanson's model from 1988 does not fit the present, even his conservative projections are significantly high of actual observation at this point. (High relative to the ground based measurements and wildly high compared to satellite and balloon measurements to be more specific)

    If a model can't take past conditions and produce results that fit current reality it would be obviously useless.

    However since modelers are not simpletons that isn't the problem that was being discussed! The problem is just because current models have been changed so they can somewhat be used to fit past observations that doesn't mean those changes were the correct changes, therefore it doesn't mean that they are making correct predictions. The models still contain assumptions for various parameters that have not or perhaps can not presently be varified.

    Freeman Dyson is correct here, Models are improving but they have a long way to go before they are better than educated guesses.

    You should read Dyson's entire statement this is a bit out of context.
  12. Wondering Aloud:

    "because current models have been changed"

    You're clearly off spouting rubbish you don't know a thing about.

    Look at the temperature predictions in Hansen et al. (2006) and Hansen et al. (1998). They are _exactly_ _the_ _same_. The 1998 model has _not_ been changed at all, and it still agrees all the way to 2006. All your talk about "fudge factors" can't explain that.

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