McCain In 2003: ‘I Absolutely Don’t Believe’ Military Service Alone Qualifies Somebody For President
McCain In 2003: ‘I Absolutely Don’t Believe’ Military Service Alone Qualifies Somebody For President
This Sunday, on CBS’s Face the Nation, host Bob Schieffer commented that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) may not have the experience to be president because he has not “ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down.” After having already expressed his respect for McCain’s military record, Gen. Wesley Clark responded by arguing that “getting shot down is [not] a qualification to be President.” The McCain campaign issued this statement condemning Clark’s remarks:
The American people know that John McCain’s record of service and sacrifice is not a matter of debate. He has written about and discussed his service as a POW extensively — often in excruciating and painful detail. The American people will judge harshly anyone who demeans or attacks that service.
Then, last night, on MSNBC’s Veridct with Dan Abrams, Clark again reiterated that “this is an issue about the qualifications to be President” and said, “I want to assure you I would never, never diss someone’s service.” Watch It:
Much of the traditional media quickly asserted that Clark was impugning McCain’s patriotism. CBS’ Dean Reynolds suggested that Clark had questioned McCain’s patriotism and had “critici[zed]” McCain’s “service, including five years as a POW.” And NBC’s Brian Williams falsely suggested that Clark had impugned McCain’s “war record.”
In reality, Clark’s argument that military service is not sufficient alone to be president is an argument that has been made by McCain himself:
- During an interview with National Journal, John McCain was asked if “military service inherently makes somebody better equipped to be commander-in-chief.” McCain said, “Absolutely not…I absolutely don’t believe that it’s necessary.” [National Journal, 2/15/2003]
- I believe that military service is the most honorable endeavor an American may undertake. But I’ve never believed that lack of military service disqualifies one from occupying positions of political leadership or as Commander and Chief. In America, the people are sovereign, and they decide who is and is not qualified to lead us. [American Legion Speech, 9/7/1999]
- Earlier this year at Washington’s Gridiron Club, where humor is the required fare, McCain lay bare what underlies his candidacy. Wearing a jacket outlandishly festooned with dozens of fake military medals, McCain said, “The question I ask myself every morning while shaving in front of the mirror is: OK, John, you’re an incredible war hero, an inspiration to all Americans. But what qualifies you to be president of the United States?” [Minneapolis Star Tribune, 11/7/1999]
In fact, in an interview on NPR on May 1, 2004, McCain noted that “some of our greatest presidents have not [had military experience]. … And all of them turned out to be fine commanders in chief.” Perhaps the media might take notice of what McCain himself has said.
Cross-posted on The Wonk Room.
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Whether their war heroes or not, I really don’t think America can afford another Republican president–it’s gonna take years to fix Bush’s Republican mess and I don’t think Republicans are the right people to fix the Republican mess they made.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:19 amDamn those internets! How the heck do they expect McSame to lie his way to the White House when they keep reminding everyone of the things that he said???
July 1st, 2008 at 11:20 amAnybody who saw the entire interview with Wesley Clark knows that Clark was not in any way impugning McCain’s service. Clark was making a response to Schieffer’s question if Obama WASN’T qualified to be president because he didn’t get shot down in an airplane.
However, this was cropped by a number of media to suggest that Clark was somehow treating McCain’s service as a negative, which he was not.
I hope that more people see the McCain flip-flop over this than see swift-boating where it doesn’t exist.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:21 amObama may not have logged any military service, but then, he did NOT crash 5 US aircraft either.
One could safely extrapolate that if McPutz moves into the White House, he will crash that as well.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:22 amraynman @ #2; (:-D)
July 1st, 2008 at 11:24 amyes, misshusseinmolly.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:28 amI think it’s time for the rabid media and faux news fans to have an injection of “reality”.
Clark never “dissed” McCain’s military record. Not like Bush’s campaign did in 2000.
He just stressed the fact that someones military service is not necessary a lock for president.
End.
Of.
Story.
Unfortunately, this will get played out over and over (ala John Kerry’s joke slamming Bush) with false purposes.
Boy. Can’t wait to hear how they’ll spin this one.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:32 amThis appears to be another example of how the media will allow themselves to behave in an obsequious manner whenever the word patriotism arises. It does not seem to have occurred to those in the journalistic world why someone like McCain, who incinerated Vietnamese civilians by dropping napalm on them from 35,000 feet, should be exempt from scrutiny. Then there is Obama, stating in today’s USA Today, that “… no one should ever devalue [McCain’s] service.” Apparently the last thing that a politician like Obama would ever wish to do would be to examine the reasons why McCain should be be somehow thought of as being a hero. I suggest that Obama may try making that statement to the Vietnamese people and see how many of them will believe that McCain should be considered a hero for dropping napalm on the Vietnamese people from 35,000 feet in the air.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:33 amHow dare General Clark agree with Senator McInsane that service in the military isn’t needed for a president? I’m shocked, shocked do you hear, that a basic grasp of reality is being injected into these discussions! I reject your reality and substitute one of my own, where facts don’t have such a liberal bias!
July 1st, 2008 at 11:36 amBack to real reality:
Impeach Pelosi, Cheney and Bush and Save the Constitution!
misshusseinmolly Says: However, this was cropped by a number of media to suggest that Clark was somehow treating McCain’s service as a negative, which he was not.
There are several areas in our culture that are not “allowed” to be questioned, much less criticized. Military service, religion, and parenthood are just three of them.
We automatically give someone a pass because they served in the military, believe in something they cannot prove, or have procreated. And its too bad that we don’t question these things as they are also three main reasons we have many of the problems we do today…
July 1st, 2008 at 11:37 amConservatives didn’t think George McGovern’s WWII medals qualified him to be president. I don’t think Timothy McVeigh’s service in Gulf War I qualified him for president. FDR was a good president without military experience. ETC., etc.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:38 amTP stepping up to defend Wes Clark’s truth telling yet again. Yes, indeed.
More of this please, because the MSM is trying to bury Clark & his truth telling, since it contradicts the McCain myth they have been trying to weave.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:39 amsince the SCOTUS appointed Bush the POTUS, it is precedent that the POTUS need not have military experience. Flying outdated planes in the TANG during a real conflict, and going AWOL rather than flunking a required flight physical shouldn’t qualify as military service, more like rich frat boy combat evasion.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:41 amKeith Says: I don’t think Timothy McVeigh’s service in Gulf War I qualified him for president.
Touche!
July 1st, 2008 at 11:42 amDoes McCain’s experience as a POW make him more likely to surrender to the enemy?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:43 amNobody, I have heard, has dissed or made light of McSame’s military service or the fact he was a POW during Vietnam. What has been said is that he does not deserve a free pass to the POUSA because of it. General Clark said that his service was not a qualifier to the presidency. The same has been said of Kerry, McGovern and many others.
McSame has to qualify just as Obama on the the good judgement meter. When he went to the Rovian playbook and immediately drew the Swift Boat cards out, he proved he is nothing more than a GOP puppet like Dubya the dunce.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:43 amBut McCain doesn’t know about the internet so facts on the internet from a couple years ago don’t matter.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:44 amSo in other words, McCain doesn’t even believe his own bulls**t.
http://progressiveworldreview.com
July 1st, 2008 at 11:46 amYou know, there was a fighter pilot who was the Navy’s only genuine ace in Vietnam. He even got shot down, although he managed to bail out over the Gulfof Tonkin and so escape being captured.
After the war he entered Congress, and dealt with military matters. Clearly his bravery and public service would qualify him for Commander-In-Chief–
–if he ever gets out of jail.
The man is Randy “Duke” Cunningham.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:54 amThis should put this issue to rest. By David Hackworth, the most decorated soldier in Vietnam:
John McCain is being hailed by the press as a “genuine war hero.” But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his “war hero” status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?
For sure, McCain has the fruitsalad a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.
On a purely medal count basis, he outweighs Murphy and Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.
McCain’s valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.
In an attempt to find out exactly what the man did to earn these many hero awards, I asked his Senate office three times to provide copies of the narratives for each medal. I’m still waiting.
I next went to the Pentagon. Within a week, I received a recap of his medals and many of the narratives that give the details of what he did.
None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as “boilerplate” and “part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs.”
McCain’s Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 the day after he was shot down to 8 December 1968 reads: “His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…” of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.
Yet in McCain’s own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors “O.K, I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”
A Vietnam vet detractor says, “He received the nation’s third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!”
The rest of his valor awards issued automatically every year while he was a POW read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: “By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces.”
Yet McCain’s conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a “black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate.” This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.
Accounts by McCain and other writers tell of the horror he endured: relentlessly beatings, torture, broken limbs. All inflicted during savage interrogations. Yet no other POW was a witness to these accounts.
A former POW says “No man witnessed another man during interrogations… We relied on each other to tell the truth when a man was returned to his cell.”
The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors. And they’re not talking.
Our POWs in Vietnam were treated appallingly. The Viets would either break a POW or kill him. POWs provided info beyond name, rank and serial number or they didn’t come back.
Based on these stalwart men’s horrific experiences, the Code of Conduct has been changed. A POW says, “Now the training is to give them something… don’t risk permanent damage to health, mind or body.”
McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he “just followed orders.”
McCain certainly doesn’t appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.
David H. Hackworth died in June 2005, he was a much-decorated and highly unconventional former career Army officer who became a combat legend in Vietnam. Col. Hackworth received 78 combat awards — including a Distinguished Service Cross, a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts — during his 25-year military career which spanned the Korean and Vietnam wars..
July 1st, 2008 at 11:55 amRobertSeattle Says:
But McCain doesn’t know about the internet so facts on the internet from a couple years ago don’t matter.
They matter, just that he can’t remember what he said before. And his handlers are writing the script this time.
Just like they did for Ronnie Ray-gunz.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:55 amI really hate what this country has become. It’s all about the military. It’s all about Patriotism. It’s all about the so called “war on terror”.
The average Joe Schmoe is seeing their savings depleted because of the cost of gas, food, healthcare etc go up.
Just wait folks — when we bomb the shit out of Iran and gas costs $8-$10 a gallon — this country will come to a standstill.
This country is a Military Economy and the ones associated with the Military Industrial Entertainment Complex are the only ones raking in the dough.
The average person is just trying to fill the tank, keep their home, put food on the table ETC.
This is not the country I knew as a kid.
And unless we get to the bottom of 9/11 — this country will continue to tank.
Reinvestigate 9/11
July 1st, 2008 at 11:56 amImpeach
Imprison the Entire Bush Administration for Crimes Against Humanity and for Treason.
At least Clark is standing his ground and not cowering from the right wing’s mighty wurlitzer media onslaught. If John Kerry had done the same against the swift-boat smears, there might not ever have ever been a President George W. Bush and all of this would be for naught.
The faux outrage on the right is understandable if laughable. The Clark comment, which they know is accurate, is just an excuse to use the media as a willing accomplice to undercut Obama’s National Security Credentials. And speaking of the so-called “librul media” — buffoons as always — completely and deliberately missing the point of what Clark was saying, then rushing onto the airwaves to manufacture a phony controversy just because they can — it’s sickening to watch.
Bottom line is, the Obama people had better start understanding that the corporate-whore media, having been good little water-carriers for Bush and the GOP these past several years, isn’t going to relinquish that role willingly. Also, Obama had better start backing up his supporters like Clark when they speak truth to power. If he doesn’t, the progressive community which has played a monumental role in putting him in the position he’s in, might decide, come November, that staying home is better option than pulling the voting lever for an ungrateful and unworthy candidate.
Just saying . . .
July 1st, 2008 at 12:03 pmTrippleKick Says:
As far as Commander in Chief goes, I’d take McCain’s military record over Obama’s any day, twice on Sunday. This is wartime after all. Taxpayer funded healthcare is a cute socialist idea but right now what’s important is a strong CIC.
Don’t you ever tire of being a cliched, kneejerk conservative buffoon?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:03 pmYou know, just what did McSame do to be called a “Hero”?
Throw himself on a grenade? Nope.
Rescue his squad from death? Nope.
Save puppies and kittens from a fire? Nope.
Why is he called a “Hero”?
Does simply being shot down and in a prison camp qualify someone as a “Hero”? If it does then we have a whole lot of unknown “Heros” out there who are not getting the praise they deserve.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:03 pmThis is wartime after all.
Wartime my ass. This was a PNACian planned occupation to get oil. All based on lies.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:04 pmThis is wartime? No declaration of war exists. We invaded Iraq on the basis of a Resolution. Which was extracted from
July 1st, 2008 at 12:04 pmCongress under false pretenses.
There’s a bunch of ragtag religious fanatics who’ve actually accomplished much of their mission, of luring us into a nation draining occupation of a Muslim country.
Congratulations KrippleTick, you’ve surrendered our national values to the terrorists. You chickenshit prick.
Tripplekick, according to you, we are the only developed country in the world that is not socialist. Did you know that, or are you ignorant?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:04 pmErroll makes an excellent point that the media becomes enraptured when the word patriotism or military service is mentioned. I depart from the line of reasoning when Erroll goes into the use of napalm and the lack of heroism in bombing raids.
1. This is not about the role of bombing. The whole point of war is to inflict violent damage upon an enemy with a minimal exposure to death or injury for your own troops. The use of mines, booby traps, pungi sticks, execution of suspected Viet Cong or South Vietnamese leaders is always the cruel result of war that is inflicted by both sides. McCain’s heroism involved his captivity and mistreatment at the hands of the enemy.
2. The real issue is whether such military service prepares one as commander in chief. That is the issue that should be addressed. Clark’s comments were correct. Although they could have been better phrased - understandable given the response to a question with the exact same words - Clark should have known how it would be twisted.
3. We need to counter with a frank discussion of what kind of how military service would actually add to a candidate’s credentials. Eisenhower stands out as an excellent example with his role during WWII as Supreme Commander in Europe where he was involved in grand strategy and high stakes diplomatic efforts to maintain the alliance. FDR typifies a cripple leading the nation as president during that same war. Kennedy and George Bush I typify presidents who served heroically during WWII but did not really gain the kind of executive military experience that added substantially to their qualifications to be president. Indeed, Bush I gained far more from being VP and Director of the CIA.
3. We need to hit back with McCain’s own comments concerning the role of military experience. McCain is retreating from his own prior position as are his surrogates.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pmSince McCain failed in his mission(s) to return safely and to not get shot down and captured by the enemy, is he more likely to fail as President?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:08 pmThe only “bombing” taking place by 5 deferrment Dickhead Cheney is being drunk while hunting…
July 1st, 2008 at 12:09 pmTrippleKick Says:
This is wartime after all.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:10 pm—-
So what sacrifices have you and yours been making during this time of war? Isn’t that what citizens do during times of war?
Hey Tripp,
And what about AWOL Dubya’s NG service makes you feel saf now?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:13 pmIs it his codpiece in his flightsuit?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:14 pmI think this is a good time to remind all the knee-jerk, flag sucking, half witted right wing morons about a few points of fascism. Pay close attention to #’s 4 and 6.
And you call yourselves Americans.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:14 pmAs far as Commander in Chief goes, I’d take McCain’s military record over Obama’s any day, twice on Sunday. This is wartime after all. Taxpayer funded healthcare is a cute socialist idea but right now what’s important is a strong CIC.
Why? FlipFlop McCain has already demonstrated that he’ll fold under pressure, and I’m not talking torture.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pmtripkickmyass; How does dropping napalm from 30,000 feet that turns people into ‘crispy critters’ make one a bonafide war ‘hero’?
STFU!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pmTrippleKick Says:
As far as Commander in Chief goes, I’d take McCain’s military record over Obama’s any day, twice on Sunday. This is wartime after all.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:59 am
______
This isn’t wartime. You can’t fight a war against an abstract concept.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pmCan you imagine if all the outrage bottled up over the past 7.5 years was unleashed?
oh. doggie.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pmI’m so damned sick of these stupid flarking Repuke hypocrites with their hysteria, their abject cowering fear, their slavering attacks upon ANYONE who dares speak the truth.
I’m even MORE sick of those cowards who, when faced with the slavering reichwing mob, back down and relinquish their truth to the terrorist Repuke hordes.
For the love of God, people - when are we going to start standing up to these Republican terrorists???
When???
July 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pmTripkick: Put your knowledge where your mouth is. Specify the exact traits, skills and experience gained by Senator McCain while in the military and how they would prepare him to be a good commander in chief during war. We are all waiting to hear something more than drivel - “he was a hero” or “he has a fighting spirity” bs that we expect. We would like to see something well thought out and persuasive.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pmHow can anyone believe McCain’s military service qualifies him for anything, other than the right to walk in parades?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pmKay Says:
Can you imagine if all the outrage bottled up over the past 7.5 years was unleashed?
oh. doggie.
Or, what will the war-huggers like Tripp do when we actually begin to resolve differences without pre-emptive wars?
They will have to play extra bloody rounds on their Xboxes to keep that adreniline flowing. (Along with a double bump of Mountain Dew)
July 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pmThis is war on the poor time.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pmObama has some glaring deficiencies in this area..
So did St. Ronny Reagan…
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pmTrippleKick Says:
Obama has some glaring deficiencies in this area..
July 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
_______
I can only hope that you defend the military service records of John Kerry, Al Gore, and Jimmy Carter with the same amount of enthusiasm.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pmSo does Dubya, but that doesn’t seem to faze tripp, since he still has a R behind his name.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pmTriptick: No one questions that McCain has received medals. So what? I have my military medals as well. Now tell us exactly how McCain’s medals and military experience prepare him to be commander in chief. FDR led this country in the greatest war in history. He was just a crippled victim of polio and the person who originated so many social programs that you decry. Obviously lacking in those same areas as Obama but an extremely compentent commander in chief.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pmHow about it TC? What about Ronald Reagan’s lack of military experience? Don’t you guys brag about how he ended the Cold War?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pmtripkickme; McPutz has medals, show some repsect.
SO?
I have medals too, from that same war.
Go Cheney yourself!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:25 pmTrippleKick Says:
JMOHR,
McCain is the one who’s military record speaks for itself. Why don’t you explain how Barry Obama’s non-service, non-sacrifice, and utter lack of experience qualifies him to be CIC during wartime.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
________
This isn’t wartime.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pmI had a lot of them too, but threw them over the WH fence.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pmWhy don’t you explain how Barry Obama’s non-service, non-sacrifice, and utter lack of experience qualifies him to be CIC during wartime.
And Ronny?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pmTripplekick: Please read above post #21, by Col. David Hackworth, a real war hero. That should set your @ss straight.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:27 pmMcCain’s wartime bouts with dysentery speak for themselves.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:28 pmObama’s never even ejected from a plane.
25. krazeeinjun Says:
Obama had better start backing up his supporters like Clark when they speak truth to power. If he doesn’t, the progressive community which has played a monumental role in putting him in the position he’s in, might decide, come November, that staying home is better option than pulling the voting lever for an ungrateful and unworthy candidate.
Obama did the right thing by denouncing Clark’s comments!!!
Although it is true that being a Naval Pilot and/or being shot down does not necessarily provide any specific experience that qualifies one to be President… Clark also said that McCain was untested and untried and that he had never been in a position where he had to understand risks, gauge his opponents, or be held accountable. Also, Clark mentions that McCain has never run anything as an executive.
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
This is not the conversation we want to be having!!!
McCain’s Media would not allow these comparisons to work out well for Obama nor would they allow them to go away any time soon. If Obama stands by Clarks comments he irreparably damages his candidacy.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:28 pmTripplekick: Did you know that FDR never served? As a matter of fact, he was wheelchair bound, crippled with polio.
I guess according to you, someone else should have been president, huh? Clearly he wasn’t qualified.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pmKrippleTick, see #21 for debunking of medals status.
Awarding medals during Nam was somewhat like a contest between commanders to see how many each unit could rack up.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pmI got a Bronze Star for doing just about nada. Plus the ARCOM, VietNamese gallantry cross, NSDM, etc, etc…Less than three years and I had three rows of crap to display.
TrippleKick Says:
JMOHR,
McCain is the one who’s military record speaks for itself. Why don’t you explain how Barry Obama’s non-service, non-sacrifice, and utter lack of experience qualifies him to be CIC during wartime.
Wartime? You mean like WWII? You mean like FDR?
Or maybe you mean “I played war in the movies” Ronnie Reagan?
Or “I ducked combat and drank my way across Alabama” GW Bush?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pmSo what if I don’t get to be admiral. I’ll be president, that’ll make mama proud.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:31 pmG.W.SuperChrist Says:
This is not the conversation we want to be having!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
_______
So true. It’s realy getting in the way of important issues like flag pins and angry black preachers.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:32 pmIf Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
This is not the conversation we want to be having!!!
At the risk of eternal damnation, I would suggest that it is. This is a political ploy, to highlight for voters that all of McCain’s “wartime experience” has been invalidated, by his refusal to embrace re-deployment of troops, and his insistance that we are making tangible progress in Iraq. They are Roveishly trying to nullify his supposedly greatest political strength.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pmbarfly; Ronnie Ray-gun did serve in the army in WWII, staying in Hollywood, making films for the army. But to hear Ronnie tell it, he out-Murphyed Audie Murphy.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:37 pmReagan as president liked to tell the press about being at the liberation of the Nazi death camps. His handlers would always cringe when he did because the truth is Ronnie never left Hollywood.
Everyone thinks John Wayne is so heroic—but he took marriage deferments and never served.
Try this: http://www.whoserved.com/
July 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pmC’Mon Trip;
Ronny’s standing there, with his pants around his posthumous ankles (ugh!), waiting for you to defend him! If military service during a time of war is so important, why didn’t Ronald Reagan’s lack of service disqualify him, during the Cold War?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pmI love it when old white people use the word “diss”. Next thing you know we’ll have Bob Dole talking about his wife’s Badonkadonk or John McCain referring to his purple heart as “bling”.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:41 pmRonnie Ray-gun did serve in the army in WWII, staying in Hollywood, making films for the army.
That was simply face-saving, wasn’t it? He “enlisted” knowing he’d never leave the studio lot.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:42 pmUncle Ho Says:
barfly; Ronnie Ray-gun did serve in the army in WWII, staying in Hollywood, making films for the army. But to hear Ronnie tell it, he out-Murphyed Audie Murphy.
And folks,
Let’s not forget Dubya’s landing after singlehandedly brought on ‘Mission Accomplished’ and then did his fake Texas swagger across the flight deck in that ridiculous flightsuit and codpiece. I bet he had a woody that lasted all night.
That will always be my favorite BushCo moment. I laughed til I cried when I first saw that.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:44 pmThat will always be my favorite BushCo moment. I laughed til I cried when I first saw that.
And Rove was thinking: “Hmmm… Action Figures…”
July 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pmTrippleKick Says:
People want a strong CIC right now, that’s why Bush was reelected.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
_______
Actually, Bush was reelected because states like Ohio and New Mexico disenfranchised a shitload of voters. But do go on…
July 1st, 2008 at 12:52 pmWe’re talking about Obama Vs. McCain, not Reagan’s achievements and military support during peacetime.
Um, Hello? Cold War?
You simply cannot argue that during a time of war, military experience trumps all - given the fact that Jimmy Carter served during wartime, and Ronald Reagan didn’t. The Cold War ended during Reagan’s terms in office, not during Carter’s - and since you conservatives claim Reagan ended the Cold War, and he didn’t serve (his titular “enlistment” notwithstanding), your past statements conflict with historical record.
Reconcile that, if you can.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pmThat was then. This is now. It’s all he has. He can’t win on the issues that concern the populace.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pmTrippleKick Says:
Barfly,
I can see you want to change the subject to Ronald Regan, likely because you can’t find any reason to defend the utter lack of any experience at all in Barry Obama. I can see how that could be embarrassing.
We’re talking about Obama Vs. McCain, not Reagan’s achievements and military support during peacetime.
My point is that the TP community is denigrating McCain’s military experience simply because Obama doesn’t have any experience. They are attacking McCain’s strength because they know this is a huge weakness for Obama.
I can see how you want to change the subject to Obama’s lack of experience rather than address your own ridiculous suggestion that military experience was critical for a Commander in Chief. It’s much easier for you to ignore people like Reagan, FDR and Bush, none of who had combat experience. FDR was CiC in a real war.
People are not denigrating McCain’s military service at all, merely pointing out that it is irrelevant. Republicans and their lapdogs want to pretend it is relevant because otherwise? They’ve got Bush III, with all the incompetence, economic disaster and cronyism stuck on. Better to pretend we need McBush’s “experience” than admit what a disaster the last seven years have been.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:59 pmIf that pandering wingnut wannabe McLoser keeps bringing up his service as his qualification to be CIC, then we have the absolute right to examine his “qualifications” under a microscope.
What I’ve read about McCain’s service isn’t all that impressive (see David Hackworth’s account). He’s more survivor than hero, IMO. And while there’s something to be said for that - well, it was 30 years ago, he’s got his medals and his tax-free pension - and that’s enough.
No more free passes, McLoser. What you were 30 years ago is NOT what you are now. Not by a long, long shot.
Give me a smart, Harvard-educated, Constitutional scholar any old day over a senile old fart with no ethics, no scruples and no moral center who will say anything for power.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pmIt would be more accurate to say W was reselected.
If he is so wonderful—why is his approval 23% and his disapproval 73% (an historical record)?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pmAccording to Bush’s people in 2000, McCain’s suffering in the POW camp made him insane. Tripp, I guess you really would favor McVeigh over FDR!
July 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm.
Well,
We CAN agree that Barack Obama never capitulated on, during and for torture… like Johnny. In fact McTORTURE is overqualified on the subject.
Who else knows more about enduring TORTURE but McTORTURE?
Who else knows more about confessing while being enduring that TORTURE bu McTORTURE?
Who else knows more about crashing 1,2,3,4,5… aircraft?
Who knows more about the deaths of some 130 crewmen due to negligence of his plane?
… Yep, service counts for something… NO?
.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pmHey DribbleDick,
July 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pmNo one here has even remotely denigrated McCain’s military record!
Nice try at moving the goal posts, but the question still stands:
If Obama, with no military experience, is not able to lead this country in your stupified opinion, then how could Reagan?
Mucking Foron!
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
On doing a little Wiki research, I stand corrected. Reagan did serve, but no one can argue his service was what made him a good CIC:
After completing fourteen home-study Army Extension Courses, Reagan enlisted in the Army Enlisted Reserve[20] on April 29, 1937, as a private assigned to Troop B, 322nd Cavalry at Des Moines, Iowa.[21] He was appointed Second Lieutenant in the Officers Reserve Corps of the Cavalry on May 25, 1937, and on June 18 was assigned to the 323rd Cavalry.[22]
Reagan was ordered to active duty for the first time on April 18, 1942. Due to his nearsightedness, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas.[23] His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as a liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office.[24] Upon the approval of the Army Air Force (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the Cavalry to the AAF on May 15, 1942, and was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit in Culver City, California.[24] On January 14, 1943 he was promoted to First Lieutenant and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California.[24] He returned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit after completing this duty and was promoted to Captain on July 22, 1943.[21]
In January 1944, Captain Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the sixth War Loan Drive. He was assigned to the 18th AAF Base Unit, Culver City on November 14, 1944, where he remained until the end of World War II.[21] He was recommended for promotion to Major on February 2, 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year.[25] He returned to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on December 9, 1945.[25] By the end of the war, his units had produced some 400 training films for the AAF.[21]
July 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pm66. barfly Says:
If Obama stands by Clarks comments he has to endure countless comparisons between his and McCain’s testedness, triedness, understanding of risk, experience gauging opponents, experience being held accountable, and experience working as an executive.
This is not the conversation we want to be having!!!
At the risk of eternal damnation, I would suggest that it is. This is a political ploy, to highlight for voters that all of McCain’s “wartime experience” has been invalidated, by his refusal to embrace re-deployment of troops, and his insistance that we are making tangible progress in Iraq. They are Roveishly trying to nullify his supposedly greatest political strength.
I respectfully disagree.
All of these things emphasize experience and not judgment. Like it or not McCain has much more experience than Obama.
If you make the conversation about experience McCain wins… if you make it about judgment… Obama wins.
Obama did the right thing by stepping away from the experience pissing contest!
July 1st, 2008 at 1:07 pmToasterhead, What did he say about our nuts?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pmTripplekick:
July 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pmSo about those sacrifices you’ve been making during this alledged time of war…
citizen_pain @21
Someone seriously needs to confront Senator McTORTURE on these facts.
~ Was he tortured?
~ Did he capitulate and confess?
~ Was his torture effective at obtaining useful information?
~ What can we gleam from his experience concerning the current US TORTURE PROGRAM?
.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pmBet that you didn’t know that John McCain is a Master of Yoga and the Kama Sutra. He has 99 different positions - on every issue…
July 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pmTrippleDipp Says:
Ronnie Reagan, US Army Air Corps (Captain, 1942-45)
What else you got
Yeah, making films in Burbank SO prepares one to be CommanderInChief.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:11 pmTrippleKick Says:
Toaserhead and Kieth,
If you honestly, truly feel that the elections were rigged or stolen then you have an absolute obligation to either move out of this corrupt country, or pick up a weapon and revolt, or realize that your nuts and quite down.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:07 pm
_______
Actually, I don’t have an obligation to move out or revolt. My obligation is to educate people about the rigged and stolen elections of 2004 and make sure they don’t get stolen again in 2008.
Good try, but you can’t get rid of me that easily.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pmTrippleKick @83,
And Bush’s?
LOL….
July 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pmCommendable?
Keith and toasterhead,
I guess something about your nuts are quite down, which may imply that they hang low?
(although, in all fairness, I did type “reach” for rich in another thread, so I really shouldn’t criticize other’s typing, but this one was way too much fun to let pass)
July 1st, 2008 at 1:13 pmKeith Says:
Toasterhead, What did he say about our nuts?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm
______
Apparently they’re quite down.
Perhaps he’s suggesting that we need to switch to boxer-briefs.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:14 pmTrippleDipp, Your nuts if you believe electronic machines made by conservative corporations who swear they will do anything to ensure that W wins. And we are not allowed to see how they work because that just would not be fair to them.
You must not read much. Sixth graders don’t make as many grammatical errors as you.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pmG.W.SuperChrist Says: I respectfully disagree.
Ah, but, we all know from bitter experience how easily voters are manipulated. If Obama can conflate the two - experience and judgement - in voters’ minds, in regards to Iraq, he can win.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pmHT,
July 1st, 2008 at 1:17 pmI am wearing boxer-briefs. The ones Michael Jordan wears.
Try to learn English, you might make more sense.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pmTrippleKick Says:
So apparently military experience was only important with John Kerry, but not important with Barry Obama. How convenient. *eyes rolling*
July 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
______
Actually, it wasn’t important with John Kerry. At least, not until the Swift Boat Veterans began slandering him.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pmTrippleKick Says:
Ronnie Reagan, US Army Air Corps (Captain, 1942-45)
What else you got
An ironic chuckle, that Bush actually did some piloting, while conservatives’ “great one” had a service that could only be considered, what’s the word I’m looking for?
Unconventional, I guess, would be the nicest way to put it.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pmDribbleDick Says:
Keith,
Thanks for the insults. Try adjust your foil helmet.
So sayeth the English major who called two posters here “insane”, but ended up infatuated with their “boys”.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pmTrippleKick Says:
Ronnie Reagan, US Army Air Corps (Captain, 1942-45)
What else you got
He never left Hollywood, dopey. He spent the war filming movies as propaganda. Combat? Not so much.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pmTrippleKick @86,
So, are those the only choices…?
~ Put up or shut up
~ Violence
~ Leave the country
What happened to education? To reforms?
I suppose you’re happy with corporations owning the proprietary rights to the programs used to count your vote? What ever happened to a public count of the people’s private vote?
Oh, forgot… that’s so pre-9/11… like the Constitution…
July 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm… Eh ?
TrippleKick Says:
Keith/Toaster
I’m saying that if you really feel that your votes were manipulated and that the elections are rigged, then you are obligated to do something about it because you are essentially saying that democracy in the US is gone. So your not going to organize a revolt? Gonna just whine? That’s fine, but clearly you don’t even believe your own lies.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
______
Okay, then. I’ll organize a revolt, if it’ll make you happy.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pmI nominate DribbleDick as today’s greatest goal post “mover” at #103.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pmI’ll bet it was a real hoot, for guys like Glenn Ford, and Audie Murphy, to rub elbows on movie sets with such stellar military minds as Capt. Reagan.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:27 pmsacrifices? Come on man. This is wartime right?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:29 pm99. barfly Says:
Ah, but, we all know from bitter experience how easily voters are manipulated. If Obama can conflate the two - experience and judgement - in voters’ minds, in regards to Iraq, he can win.
Voters are easily manipulated… so if it appears that Obama is calling out McCain on experience than it would be easy to convince them that both parties agree that experience is of primary importance.
Again… this is not the conversation we want to be having. We do not want to have a conversation that splits time between experience and judgment or even one that tries to conflate the two.
We want to talk, as much as possible, about judgment and only judgment. This is the winning conversation.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:29 pmTrippleKick Says
July 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
So apparently military experience was only important with John Kerry, but not important with Barry Obama. How convenient. *eyes rolling*
________________________________________________________
Nice try, but the swift-boaters made Kerry’s military experience a much bigger issue than Kerry ever did. The main point about Kerry’s service is that he actually served when called, and went to Vietnam. He didn’t DODGE THE DRAFT as Dubya did to avoid going where he could get hurt.
Obama? He didn’t dodge the draft either. He turned 18 on August 4, 1979. THERE WAS NO DRAFT THEN. Nor were we at war anywhere. While he’s not a veteran, he’s no chickenhawk, either.
And McCain? He went to Vietnam, got shot down, and spent 5-1/2 years in a living hell that nobody should have to endure, only to emerge with permanent injuries. He did the best he could with what he had. I was willing to consider his experience as a factor in his fitness to be president, because I thought that someone who had been subjected to torture would be the best qualified to dictate its use by our forces. I was wrong. McCain’s principled stand against torture has vanished.
Oh, and Wesley Clark NEVER dissed McCain’s service. He just said that getting shot down in a plane doesn’t in and of itself qualify somebody to be president. And he’s right.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pmTripleDipp,
You seriously think I have the power to lead a revolt overthrowing the USA? You seriously think I have the ability to move to any country of my choosing at the drop of a hat? You think you know more about the laws of average than U. Penn PHD in Research Methods Stephen Freeman? Have they ever let you out into the real world?
http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm
July 1st, 2008 at 1:30 pmOkay, let’s make it real simple for Dribbledick:
Show us where Clark (and others) denigrated McCain’s military past.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:31 pmPlease provide information showing how one’s military experience or lack of would benefit or hurt a presidential candidate’s campaign. Please cite examples including the Bush 2000 smear of McCain.
TrippleKick Says
July 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I’m saying that if you really feel that your votes were manipulated and that the elections are rigged, then you are obligated to do something about it because you are essentially saying that democracy in the US is gone. So your not going to organize a revolt? Gonna just whine? That’s fine, but clearly you don’t even believe your own lies.
_______________________________________________________
You’re right — we ARE obligated to do something when our democracy is hijacked. That’s why we are doing everything we can to make sure the current regime is deader than a doornail after November. If it ain’t close, it can’t be stolen.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pmG.W.SuperChrist Says:
We want to talk, as much as possible, about judgment and only judgment. This is the winning conversation.
And for a lot of voters, Obama has a slim track record on the national scene, as evidenced by the focus-group conducted by pollster Peter Hart. They don’t have much to judge by, and it’s not a politically isolated conversation, but one that will take place in an arena of many competing ideas, and proposals. Experience can safely be conflated with judgement (I believe), because evidence from the last administration, that Oil Man Bush’s experience added nothing to his judgement, is so fresh in voters’ minds.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pmKeith Says:
HT,
I am wearing boxer-briefs. The ones Michael Jordan wears.
Ewww. Do you at least wash them first?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pmEach county in the US sets the rules for registration and voting. There are 4,600 counties in the US. International agencies say that makes it impossible to insure fair elections in the US.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pmSo apparently military experience was only important with John Kerry, but not important with Barry Obama. How convenient. *eyes rolling*
Ahh, trickledick. Your ignorance is painful even to me, one who is used to beating down trolls on the blogs.
Kerry VOLUNTEERED for Vietnam, then was swiftboated, while your idols Bu$h and Cheney DODGED THE DRAFT. It’s that simple. He may have spoken to congress about his experience and you may disagree, but he had the BALLS to go to Vietnam. Typical Rove manuever, attack their strenghts with lies. You must be proud of your party.
Now, let’s run down a comparison of recent military conflicts, from a democrat/republican viewpoint:
WWI: Wilson - Democrat: Helped end WWI with infusion of American Troops. Hoover - Republican, failed to support returning veterans (I’ll let you research that little tidbit).
WWII: FDR - Democrat: You should know the story, I’m sure your days are filled with drinking cheap beer and watching the military channel as opposed to actually working.
Korea: Truman - Democrat: Fought to a strategic tie with China’s surrogate army, left the 38th parallel.
Vietnam: Eisenhour - Republican: Responsible for getting U.S. involved in Vietnam. Warned of Military Industrial complex in outgoing speech.
Vietnam: Kennedy: - Democrat: Realized the potential quagmire and began to try and withdraw our presence. Was most likely killed for this reason. Bu$h #1 head of CIA at this time. Was in Dallas on 11-22-63.
Vietnam: Johnson - Democrat: Well, he screwed up. Realized it, and had the character and remorse not to seek re-election.
Vietnam: Nixon - Republican: Ran for election on ending the war, then escalated it. Kissinger and he even knew the war was un-winnable, yet continued on. Illegally bombed Cambodia while holding peace talks with North Vietnamese.
Vietnam: Ford - Republican: Presided over disgraceful retreat of American forces from Vietnam.
Iranian Hostage Crisis: carter - Democrat: Failed rescue attempt. Wouldn’t have mattered, Reagan already had a deal with the Ayotollah to provide Iran arms in exchange for hostage release.
Lebanon: Reagan - Republican: Tucked tail and ran when Marine barracks bombed.
Falklands: Reagan - Republican: Aided the Brits in bombing a fruitstand in South America. Provided naval escort.
Libya: Reagan - Republican: Bomb another fruitstand, this time in the middle east.
Iraq: Reagan - Republican: Arm Saddam to fight Iranians, who were also being armed by us (see Iran-Contra). Also provided intelligence and materials for chemical and biological weapons to Iraq.
Panama: Bu$h #1 - Republican: Bomb fruitstand in Panama.
Gulf war #1: Bu#h #1 - Republican: Failed to topple Saddam the first time, at the recommendations of several architects of Gulf War II, who at the time said Saddam “wasn’t worth it”.
Somalia: Bu$h #1: Failed to topple band of maurading bandits, left job to Clinton to clean up.
Kosovo: Clinton - Democrat: Quelled a potential regional war.
Terrorism: Clinton - Democrat: Apprehended McVey, bomber in Oklahoma. McVey executed.
Terrorism: Clinton - Democrat: Was accused of ‘wagging the dog’ when he tried to take out Bin-Laden with tomohawks during the midst of the Lewinsky scandal.
Terrorism: Clinton - Democrat: Repeatedly warned the incoming Bu$h administration of Al-Qaeda’s plan to attack, most likely with Airplanes.
Terrorism: Bu$h #2 - Republican: Presided over the most damaging attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor. Took whole month of August of that year on vacation.
Was AWOl in Texas National Guard. To this day not ONE SINGLE Servicemen has stood up to verify that he fulfilled his obligation to the Texas Air National Guard.
Afghanistan: Bu$h #2 - Republican: failed to finish the job of destroying the Taliban. Allowed Bin_Laden to escape in Tora-Bora. Refused to send additional special forces being requested by commanders on the ground who had Bin-laden cornered.
Gulf War II: Bu$h #2 - Republican: The most complete and utter failure, militarily and in terms of foreign policy, in the history of the United States. Quite simply another Vietnam.
Chew on that for awhile trickledick.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pmgummitch,
July 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pmSorry, that was ambiguous. Not actually the same ones that Jordan wears—just the same brand and type. I would obviously need a larger size. One night at a bar, a lady asked me if I wore boxers or briefs. I said “Depends”. She replied “depends on what?”. Never did get the joke.
TrippleKick Says:
What Toaster and Keith are saying is that democracy in the US is just a sham and the the elections are illegitimate. They likely wouldn’t be saying that if their candidate won.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
_______
Our candidates, Al Gore and John Kerry, DID win in 2000 and 2004, proving our point that democracy in this country is a sham and the elections were illegitimate.
However, our reaction to this is not to take up arms and overthrow the government, but to educate our fellow citizens so that we can prevent the theft of the next election.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:55 pm“Its the same weird logic as those nuts who think 911 was an inside job.”
Trickledick
Have you ever sat down and actually thought about what happened on 9-11? Have you investigated any one of the governments claims?
One question: Where were the bodies and the debris from the crashed airliner in Shankville PA?
July 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pmcitizen_pain,
July 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pmNixon was in Dallas that morning. GHWB is the only person in the world who says he does not remember where he was. Oswald’s anti-communist Russian friend, George De Mohrenschildt, had GHWB’s nickname, address, and phone # in his address book at the time of his suicide.
TrippleKick Says
July 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Misshusseinmolly,
At the risk of being tangential, if you too believe the elections were rigged and stolen, then how could you possibly have faith in another rigged election to fix it? What Toaster and Keith are saying is that democracy in the US is just a sham and the the elections are illegitimate. They likely wouldn’t be saying that if their candidate won.
Its the same weird logic as those nuts who think 911 was an inside job. *Those* people really need to leave the corrupt and dangerous country, if they truly think the government killed its citizens.
______________________________________________________
First, if our side won, I wouldn’t suspect the election of being rigged. Double-standard, you say? Not at all. Voter caging is a Republican trick. A state’s electoral votes going for one candidate while exit polls decisively indicated another candidate benefitted a Republican. Sending law enforcement personnel to polling places in mostly non-white precincts to intimidate voters was only done by Republicans. So don’t blame me if I see election rigging as primarily a Republican thing.
Second, you think that those of us who see corruption and criminal activity going on in our government should leave the country. Nope. I’m staying. I am still an American and I love my country. This is why I’m sticking around and doing what I can to fix the damage that has been done to it over the past eight years. And I’d bet my next paycheck I’m not the only American who feels this way.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:07 pm#21-Three former POWs told me he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he “just followed orders.”
July 1st, 2008 at 2:10 pmAnd just who is this commander? Why none other that Bud Day. Remember him? He lead the charge of the Swiftboater against John Kerry. Now he is working for McCain to respond to Wesley Clark’s comments. The whole political process is a sham. It has become predictable. It’s like grade school. Obama needs to stand behind his supporters, he’s starting to disappoint me.
Trippy,
July 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pmWhen did Bush get shot down?
So Trippy,
July 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pmWas Clint Curtis lying about Tom Feeney…?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs
Keith at 127:
http://tomflocco.com/ fs/ FbiMemoPhotoLinkBushJfk.htm
July 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pmTrippleKick Says:
As far as Commander in Chief goes, I’d take McCain’s military record over Obama’s any day, twice on Sunday. This is wartime after all.
Ok idiot troll,
war verb, warred, war·ring, adjective –noun
1. a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
2. a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations: The two nations were at war with each other.
Do you want to tell us what country we are at war with? What active military operation we are in with another army?
We are not at war. We are occupying Iraq and we are in a skirmish in Afghanistan with the Taliban.
McCain doesn’t even know the difference between a Sunni and a Shia. That’s not someone I want as Commander and Chief.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:28 pmmisshusseinmolly Says:
Second, you think that those of us who see corruption and criminal activity going on in our government should leave the country. Nope. I’m staying. I am still an American and I love my country. This is why I’m sticking around and doing what I can to fix the damage that has been done to it over the past eight years. And I’d bet my next paycheck I’m not the only American who feels this way.
Hear…hear…missmolly. I too live for the day we can take back our government from the criminals who have raped and pillaged us for the last 7 years.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm#31-JMOHR
You seem to excuse McCain’s use of napalm during the Vietnam conflict as the “cruel result of war”. You then attempt to further justify McCain’s actions by claiming that “This is not about the role of bombing. The whole point of war is to inflict violent damage upon an enemy with a minimal exposure to death for your own troops.”
It is difficult to know where to begin with these disingenuous statements, which one would normally expect to see from the flag waving blogs of a conservative super patriot. The key word in your sentences is the word enemy. As I attempted to point out at comment #9, McCain did NOT bomb “the enemy”; rather he dropped napalm bombs from 35,000 feet upon innocent Vietnamese civilians, which is expressly forbidden in the Geneva Conventions. McCain himself, in a 60 Minutes interview in the 1990s, said that what he did should be considered a war crime, which then begs the question why he and other American military personnel and officials were never tried for those admitted war crimes.
My point, which you wanted to dismiss, was that it certainly should have been “about the bombing.” I strongly suggest that you rent or buy the powerful documentary Sir! No Sir! or purchase David Cortright’s classic work Soldiers in Revolt, which Sir! No Sir! was based. To do so would reveal to you those people who had far more heroism and courage than John McCain and that would be those military personnel who took part in the GI movement during the Vietnam conflict at or near military bases both at home and abroad. They recognized that they should not have participated in the wanton destruction and genocide of the Vietnamese people. Some even went to jail for their beliefs while John McCain is lauded for bombing people who were never a threat to anyone in these United States. Yet Americans, and even liberals, have the temerity to label McCain a hero for incinerating countless Vietnamese who had the audacity to defend their country from warmongers like John McCain.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:34 pmcitizen_pain,
July 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pm133. veeeerrrrry interesting! No wonder he “doesn’t remember where he was”!
You know what, DroopyDuck? You got NO cred here. Period.
Why do you keep banging your pointy little head against the wall with your stupid arguments…?
NOBODY here believes a single word you say.
Why don’t you give it up, DippyShit?
July 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pmBilbo Hussein Baggins Says:
McCain doesn’t even know the difference between a Sunni and a Shia. That’s not someone I want as Commander and Chief.
Aw, hell, now, Bilbo - they’re just ragheads. That’s good enough for the Repukians!!
July 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm141: One could easily substitute “W” for Obama and your point is well taken.
At any rate, do you think that military experience is a pre-requisite for government service?
July 1st, 2008 at 2:46 pmI would choose an empty suit Democrat against John McCain who wants to stay in Iraq for a hundred years, was for the invasion, is for more tax cuts for the rich, opposes single-payer healthcare, is for privatising Soc Security, opposes Roe v Wade, opposes gun control, threatens Iran, etc., etc.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:49 pmTrippleKick Says:
No need to be hysterical. I am here simply to point out that your Obama candidate is an empty suit with no experience in much of anything, especially military affairs.
And your guy’s an empty suit.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:56 pmThat needs to be drycleaned.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:56 pmWhat about McCain’s service to the rich blonde? Does being a kept man qualify one for public office of any kind?
July 1st, 2008 at 3:00 pmAt least Obama is not an empty skull. I may not agree with his every position, but at least his brain works.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:02 pmTripkickme; So, if military service is a qualifier to be prez, just how did W’s desertion of his ANG duty make him an able CIC as of 2000?
July 1st, 2008 at 3:04 pmI voted for the smartest candidate…you figure it out.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pmPoor trickledick, getting smacked down so thoroughly. Here’s a little more to chew on, should your foot be out of your mouth by now:
A compilation of democrat/republican military service (hint, the silver spoon rich kid republicans pale in comparison):
Prominent Democrats
• Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA) - distinguished 37-year career in the U.S. Marine Corps, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990. (1)
• Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71. (1, 2)
• Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72 (1, 2)
• Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 (1, 2)
• Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore’s Service
• Former Senator Bob Kerrey… Democrat… Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam (1, 2)
• Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-’47; Medal of Honor, World War Two (1, 2)
• Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat (1)
• Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea (1, 2)
• Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam (1, 2)
• Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953. (1)
• Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1, 2)
• Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1)
• Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. (1)
• Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier’s Medal. (1, 2)
• Former Representative “Pete” Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit. (1, 2)
• Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. (1, 2)
• Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat “V.” (1)
• Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. (1)
• Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
• Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.
Prominent Republicans• Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Former House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve (1). “So many minority youths had volunteered … that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself.”
• House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
• Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
• Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (1)
• Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (1)
• Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
• Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan’s Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
• GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat’l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he’s “been to war.” Huh?
• VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own words, “had other priorities than military service”) (1)
• Former Att’y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
• Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)
• arl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a Republican.
• Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)
• Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.
• “B-1″ Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea.
• Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments
• Senator John McCain - McCain’s naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him.
• Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php
• Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm
• Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations Recently entered plea bargain on felony charges of bribery, etc. etc.
• Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
• Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite (”I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed… managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units…”)
• Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.
________________________________________
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July 1st, 2008 at 3:06 pmHere are a few more…
Democrats
• Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
• Howell Heflin… Democrat… Silver Star
• George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII.
• Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but received a high number (311) and was never called to serve. (CNN article.) “…it was his doubts about the morality of the war and the Selective Service system that led him to abandon the ROTC idea and to subject himself to a draft lottery. Only the luck of the draw - a high lottery number - kept him out. ” (Jeff Greenfield, ABC News, quoting Gov. Clinton.)
• Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy. “Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter.” (New Yorker Magazine)
• Former Presidential Nominee Mike Dukakis - United States Army, 1955-’57 (1)
• Former Senator/Vice Presidential nominee Lloyd Bentsen - B-24 pilot in WWII 1942-’45, Squadron Commander; earned Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with three Oak Leaf Clusters. (1)
• Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
• Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
• Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.
Republicans/Conservatives
Political
• Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve (1)
• Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve (1, 2)
• Senator John Cornyn, R-TX - did not serve. (1)
• Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve (1, 2)
• Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, (formerly) fifth-ranking Republican in the House - did not serve. (1)
• Rep. John T. Doolittle, R-CA, sixth-ranking Republican in the House - did not serve.
• Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve (1, 2), had a “bad knee” (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland’s patriotism)
• Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve (1, 2)
• Jack Kemp, did not serve (1, 2) (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source)
• Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) (1, 2)
• Eliot Abrams, did not serve (1, 2) (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America)
• Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve (1, 2)
• Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve (1, 2)
• Richard Perle, did not serve (1, 2) (is the current bloodshed in the Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling in Clinton Administrstion foreign policy?)
• Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve. (1)
• Rudy Giuliani, did not serve (1, 2)
• Michael Bloomberg, did not serve (1, 2)
• George Pataki, did not serve (1, 2)
• Spencer Abraham, did not serve
• John Engler, did not serve (1, 2)
• Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a “Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran.” A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
• Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve (1)
• Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service.
• Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve (1)
• Rep. Todd Platts, R-PA - did not serve (1)
• Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition
• George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Awarded Navy Cross. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane (link).
• Representative Sam R. Johnson, combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973 (1)
(don’t ever run for president Sam, they’ll spread rumors that you’re crazy)
• Senator Ted Stevens, R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China.
• Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy 1945-1946 as a RM3; reenlisted in the USMC 1950, 10 years service in Marine Corps Reserve, retired as Captain.
• Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served in the Air Force 1978-1989
• Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII
• Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott, that America should have been a segregated society. Still, he served.
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The GOP is the party of too fearful to even come out of the closet. Chicken$hit chickenhawks.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:08 pmNice little misogynistic touch there, drippydick, calling me “hysterical” because I tell you that you’re an idiot troll who’s wasting our time and bandwidth with your stupid drivel.
No hysteria here, assswipe, just a heapin’ helpin’ of truth.
Oh — and speaking of empty suits, YoumakemeSick, your last 3 Repuke presidents have been truly empty suits - and your current Repuke nominee is not only another empty suit - but a really OLD, wrinkled and smelly one, at that.
And you have a nice day, ok?
July 1st, 2008 at 3:11 pmlol… leftside Annie: Perhaps trickledicky, being of the 19th century mindset he so obviously is in, hoped he could help you with your ‘hysteria’, whcih I believe used to be a medical term for a woman’s um, desire, shall we say.
How funny, the troll is trolling for some action!
July 1st, 2008 at 3:17 pmAnd you people did that twice! And Bu$h had a proven track record - of FAILURE! LOL! Please trickledickly, stay down.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:22 pmAh, DrippySick, I LOVE the ad hominem attacks! You’re crackin’ me up here!!
So now, you misogynistic pr*ck, you expect me to shrivel up, burst into tears and faint at your feet, since you’ve attacked my womanhood, eh? Next thing you know, you’ll be calling me a bulldyke.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! How very 1800’s of you!!
July 1st, 2008 at 3:28 pmUp yours, SippyCup. You don’t get to tell me what to say or how to say it. You’re nothing but a stupid troll with too much time on your hands, a sh*tstain in your underoos and a head with nothing in it but Repuke BS.
Go haunt someone else, moron.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pmI’m glad to hear that dribble snick voted for Kerry and didn’t fall for the swiftboat liars unpatriotic attacks.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:10 pmTaxpayer funded healthcare is a cute socialist idea
So cute that the military and government uses it.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:19 pmTrippleKick Says:
Personal constant attacks are so unbecoming. It shows a real lack of maturity and integrity. I hope you’ll strive to do better.
You told me I was an unpatriotic, whining, insane, tinfoil-hat, cowardly, socialist wimp.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:47 pm“Iranian Hostage Crisis: carter - Democrat: Failed rescue attempt.”
And left our people to rot for a year.
Except the Iranians were already making a deal with Reagan for weapons.
And the weapons transfers began just a few months after his taking office, so blame that year on Reagan’s perfidy.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:42 pmAnd to this day not one single serviceman has provided proof that he didn’t.
Because Dan Bartlett had already removed any embarrassing documents from his TANG files.
You’re either very simple-minded, or very corrupt. And since you’re a conservative, I’ll go with option “b.”
July 1st, 2008 at 8:45 pmNippleLick (you wish):
javascript:window.close()
Maybe this will help the stench of your mother’s basement.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:47 pmhttp://www.shophappytrails.com/ v/ vspfiles/ photos/ 141297-2.jpg
My bad. Hope this one works. Might be good for your SUV, er, uhh, your bicycle. Turd.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pmOriginal one was an air freshener…have one in my car. Makes for a lot of conversation with drivers-by.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:50 pmGeneral Clark was correct. John McCain is always being touted as knowledgable regarding military because he served and was a pow. If he is being regarded that way, then it is surely correct that someone more advanced in the military has a right to have an opinion as to McCains qualifications. The General was not throwing mud on McCain’s service. But what he said is true, his service does not automatically make him presidential material for that reason.
I have a brother who was a prisoner in a German concentration camp. He was tortured including water boarding. He was also a brilliant man. But that does not make him presidential material. And he graduated on the GI bill at the top of his class, not the bottom like McCain. He would be the first to tell anyone that the singular fact of being a pow is only one part of McCains qualifications. Steadiness of temper, steadfast ideology that does not change from week to week. If people want to vote for a man that keeps changing back and forth from week to week, then this is their man. As for me I prefer someone who stands by what he says and does not change depending on which way the wind blows.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 amHere is an interesting article where former Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating is defending McCain against Clark’s statement.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:22 pm