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Holocron continuity database questions  -  2055 replies  |  138 pages
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Faraer
Total Posts: 217
Member Since: 01/01

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Date Posted: Nov 21, 2005 07:50 AM

Tasty Taste:

Well, you've got the Boba Fett thing. Then there's stormtroopers where there's a bunch of sources released prior to Ep2 that said that they were human recruits. Hence we established that while most stormtroopers are clones, there are some that are recruits.

Luckily, that turned out to more-or-less gel with what George had in mind.

But the EU's biggest divergences from the movies are its rewriting of George's Sith as the 'new Sith' in order to keep TotJ in continuity, and the whole post-Episode VI timeline which ignores George's intent that the films end with the destruction of the Empire and of evil itself.
Jedi Comedian
Total Posts: 1863
Member Since: 01/03

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Date Posted: Nov 21, 2005 12:07 PM

I will perhaps repeat the question asked by razzy1319: how canonical are the Chronicals on the KOTOR II official site? They mention that the Leviathan (a Sith capital ship from KOTOR) was an Interdictor-class Star Cruiser, but there seems to be no source for such a claim in the games themselves. Is being mentioned in the Chronicles sufficient for canonicity?

The databank entry for the Leviathan also states that it is a Hyperspace interdiction cruiser, so there is other evidence to back that particular fact up.

In general, I'd say that the Chronicles are C-canon, as they are officially published Lucasfilm material, like the databank. Until they are contradicted by a superior source, then they are to be regarded as correct.
@Sikon
Total Posts: 36
Member Since: 07/04

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Date Posted: Nov 21, 2005 09:46 PM

There is a difference between "interdiction cruiser" and "Interdictor-class Star Cruiser", as well as the term "Sith Interdictor ship" Carth uses in the game.
Normally, I would presume the Chronicles are C-canon, but they apparently contradict other C-canon material. For example, they say Exile was a Jedi Knight, while in fact (s)he was a Padawan (albeit on par with most Jedi Knights of that time). Also, the Chronicles imply the DS ending for KOTOR I, while the Databank implies the LS ending.
Jedi Comedian
Total Posts: 1863
Member Since: 01/03

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 06:40 AM

There is a difference between "interdiction cruiser" and "Interdictor-class Star Cruiser", as well as the term "Sith Interdictor ship" Carth uses in the game.

Well, if you know it's an interdictor, why is it too much of a stretch to call it an Interdictor-class Star Cruiser? Seems perfectly logical to me.

Normally, I would presume the Chronicles are C-canon, but they apparently contradict other C-canon material. For example, they say Exile was a Jedi Knight, while in fact (s)he was a Padawan (albeit on par with most Jedi Knights of that time).

Jedi Knight is often used as a title for a Jedi of any rank. For example, the opening crawl of TPM refers to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan as "two Jedi Knights", even though Qui-Gon is a Master and Obi-Wan is a Padawan.

(cont.)
Jedi Comedian
Total Posts: 1863
Member Since: 01/03

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 06:41 AM

(cont.)

Also, the Chronicles imply the DS ending for KOTOR I, while the Databank implies the LS ending.

At the time the Chronicles were written, I don't think that an official ending had been decided upon. The writers were just making their own guesses.
Leland Y Chee
Member Profile
Total Posts: 1377
Member Since: 05/00

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 10:32 AM

Also, the Chronicles imply the DS ending for KOTOR I, while the Databank implies the LS ending.

At the time the Chronicles were written, I don't think that an official ending had been decided upon. The writers were just making their own guesses.


KOTOR II actually allows for both endings. (This is ingeniously resolved by how the player answers certain dialogue questions through the game.) But the fact of the matter is that by the start of KOTOR II, the Sith have returned and the Jedi have been forced into hiding regardless of whether Revan was light side or dark side. The Chronicles were written specifically to set up KOTOR II.
the fragrant wookiee
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Total Posts: 1170
Member Since: 05/00

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 01:46 PM

The official KOTOR strategy guide named the Leviathan an Interdictor-class ship too.
I figure the strategy guide info is as canonical as, say, an RPG sourcebook.
@Sikon
Total Posts: 36
Member Since: 07/04

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 08:04 PM
This message was edited by @Sikon on Nov 22, 2005 08:06 PM

It also says: "Individual Jedi begin to leave the Jedi Order, and the Jedi Watchmen of many systems, disenchanted with the endless, pointless struggles, step down and exile themselves in unknown quadrants of the galaxy, echoing the disillusionment of Jedi Master JOLEE BINDO."
So are we to assume Jolee became a Jedi Master after KOTOR I? He was only a Padawan by then. Or is it also figurative, like using "Jedi Knight" for Exile?
anakinhanleia
Total Posts: 5
Member Since: 11/05

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Date Posted: Nov 22, 2005 11:55 PM
This message was edited by anakinhanleia on Nov 22, 2005 11:56 PM

message deleted
Jedi Comedian
Total Posts: 1863
Member Since: 01/03

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Date Posted: Nov 23, 2005 01:06 PM

So are we to assume Jolee became a Jedi Master after KOTOR I? He was only a Padawan by then. Or is it also figurative, like using "Jedi Knight" for Exile?

Master used to be used as a generic term for any experienced Jedi, but not so much any more, so I'd say he's likely to have become a Master. And my sources say that Jolee was promoted to Jedi Knight after the Great Sith War, just before he left the Order for Kashyyyk. Therefore, he only needed to be promoted one rank after KotOR to be a Master, and I guess his part in the game was enough to warrant that.
Jedi Comedian
Total Posts: 1863
Member Since: 01/03

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Date Posted: Nov 23, 2005 01:10 PM
This message was edited by Jedi Comedian on Nov 23, 2005 01:11 PM

Sorry, double post.
mike4ty4
Total Posts: 13
Member Since: 11/05

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Date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 01:12 PM

Hello,

I have some questions concerning the Holocron database & the canon policy. Is the "G/C/S"
canon system that is used with the Holocron database the canon policy used by the entire
Lucasfilm company, including Lucasfilm, Ltd. proper and George Lucas, or just Lucas Books
& Lucas Licensing? Or do they (LucasFilm Ltd Proper & George Lucas) use a different policy, if they have one at all? If so, what is it?

I've also heard that in the "G-level" canon that the progression of movies, followed by screenplays, novelizations, and radio plays is "unofficial". How do you deal, *officially*, with a conflict between say, the movies and the novelizations? How do you decide which to call "canon"?

I've also heard that there's some sort of "official" category in addition to "canon". Does that exist?
Leland Y Chee
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Total Posts: 1377
Member Since: 05/00

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Date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 02:11 PM

Or do they (LucasFilm Ltd Proper & George Lucas) use a different policy, if they have one at all??
Anybody can have their own perception of what is and isn't canon. The Holocron comes into play for anything official being developed for books, games, websites, and merchandise. For anything beyond that, it is simply a reference tool.

How do you deal, *officially*, with a conflict between say, the movies and the novelizations?
All contradictions are dealt with case-by-case.

How do you decide which to call "canon"? I've also heard that there's some sort of "official" category in addition to "canon". Does that exist?
To me, everything new is canon. If it's produced by one of the Lucas companies, it's official.
mike4ty4
Total Posts: 13
Member Since: 11/05

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Date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 03:19 PM

Thanks for your reply, but it wasn't quite helpful enough. Could you clarify the following:

1. George Lucas said in the Starlog magazine recently that the books, games, etc. are a "different world" than his films, and that "we decided that we would have two universes", with one being his films and the other being everything else. Does this mean that George Lucas (and presumably others, as evidenced by his use of "we" deciding...) does not consider the EU canonical?

2. Does LucasFilm Ltd. itself actually have a Canon Policy? You said anyone can have their own perception of what is and isn't canon... which I take means that there isn't one single overarching "Canon Policy" used by every single Lucas entity. What is Lucasfilm Ltd. proper's canon policy, if it exists? Is it the same as used by George Lucas? (By Lucasfilm Ltd. proper, I'm referring to the company (or part of the company?) that produces the films.)

Thanks.
Leland Y Chee
Member Profile
Total Posts: 1377
Member Since: 05/00

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Date Posted: Dec 07, 2005 04:07 PM

George Lucas said in the Starlog magazine...
GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films.

Does LucasFilm Ltd. itself actually have a Canon Policy?
No. I'm not exactly sure what the existence of such a thing would actually mean. Beyond the merchandise and online, I don't see how or where it would be applied. It's not like there's a document that exists that says "these are the things that are canon" that everyone in the company can look at.

If Greedo can shoot first and an old Anakin ghost can be replaced with a young Anakin ghost, then there's always room for things to change.
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