Joe the Plumber Weighs in on Debate: "Obama's Proposal Scares Me Because It's Just One More Step Towards Socialism"
Oops!... He did it again.
Joe brings up that darned "socialism" word again.
Joe Wurzelbacher, "Joe the Plumber", of Toledo, Ohio weighs in on the final presidential debate last night. The man of the night concluded that Obama scares him because his plans are just one more step towards socialism:
True.
Observateurs
"Joe the Plumber" also told Katie Couric in an interview after the debate that the Illinois Senator has "a tap dance...almost as good as Sammy Davis, Jr."
Ouch!
It looks like Joe the Plumber just scored the best shots of the night.
Related... USPharmD posted "Obama vs. McCain on Healthcare: Top 10 Issues."
Michelle Malkin has more reaction to Joe the Plumber and "Senator Government."
UPDATE: That didn't take long. The Obamedia is already going after Joe the Plumber.
UPDATE 2: Lori Byrd corrects the liberals who are distorting Joe the Plumber's words.
Labels: Campaign08
posted by Gateway Pundit at 10/16/2008 04:24:00 AM
59 Comments:
The comments at Ben Smith's blog are unreal. The left is the most hate-filled group imaginable. They say things about Joe Wurzelbacher that would curl his hair (if he had any!). I wish that the average American knew how horrible the left really is - and Obama is their hero.
I like this guy Joe!
Wow, I wake up to a video of Joe tellin' it like it is. BRAVO!
That man doesn't know it yet, but he is forever now an American Icon.
GO JOE!
Not only does he have a great name, Joe the Plumber has revealed the truth about BO as no one else has from the very start of the election season!
He is an unplanned hero!
Meanwhile, the left has shown itself incapable of reasonable response and can only be vile and vulgar.
After all...it's all they know.
Palin/Plumber -- my dream ticket.
Joe the plumber needs to get himself an accountant if his business pays him a $250,000 salary and he is concerned about the incremental increase of 3% on the money he will earn over $250K.
I am sure he understands the difference between Net and Gross, but I do not think that he articulated himself well.
Just because Joe believes that Obama will do something, does not make it true.
If you are going evaluate candidates plans, you can not assume they are lying to you. If you think a candidate is lying you should vote against him.
Mrs. Whatsit...great minds think alike. That's my winning ticket.
"If you are going evaluate candidates plans, you can not assume they are lying to you. If you think a candidate is lying you should vote against him."
If you think both candidates are being entirely truthful about their plans, you may be interested in some mortgage securities I have available for sale...
"Sammy Davis Jr.???" Joe the Plumber is a RAAAAAAAACIST!!!
Pay attention to the lefties. You'll hear it.
Dan (5:22 AM) wrote: "If you think both candidates are being entirely truthful about their plans, you may be interested in some mortgage securities I have available for sale..."
Ah, yes, the equivalency game. That's the default response when a Democrat gets caught committing a sin the size of Montana, and excuses himself because the Republican commits a sin the size of a flea.
Same thing here, as always. McCain is likely adjusting a few of his policy choices to hit high spots in the focus group polling. Obama's entire policy presentation is a facade. Naturally, these are morally equivalent, if you're a Democrat.
Democrats lose elections when it becomes apparent that they don't think like most Americans. They win when they manage to hide it.
Good luck with that this time, Dan. The mask is starting to slip...
Sammy Davis Jr?? Well sure Joe's RACIST -- he's one of those icky blue-collar people after all -- but the question is, is he anti-black or anti-semite? Or anti-lounge singer?
Does anyone know if Joe the plumber is single or not? He's so American, so macho, standing up for truth, even risking the wrath of The One's goon squads.
Denise said...
"The comments at Ben Smith's blog are unreal. The left is the most hate-filled group imaginable."
Denise, dear, what do you expect? Look at the track record of leftist movements.
Leftists gassed 6 million Jews (before any smartass modern-day leftists says Hitler was a right-winged ass, do a check on his policy, remove the nationalism, remove the racism and what you have left -fear the pun- is pure and utter socialism! Or do you think that Adolf's plans for full employment are not leftist?)
Leftists murdered thousands on Cuba (Che "the butcher" Guevara was responsible for the camps)
Leftists butchered 70 million people in China, mostly by starvation (Mao "Greatest Murderer Of All Times" Zedong was in charge of that)
Leftists sent hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people into Siberian gulags where they simply perished (Lenin, Stalin, etc, etc, etc)
Leftists massacred thousands in Cambodia (Pol Pot anyone?)
I would even go so far and say that the Japanese fascism was somewhat socialist (one great leader, a bunch of "gold pheasants" surrounding him (it's a term I've taken from German, which describes high ranking leaders of a regime, due to all the medals they wear), and on the bottom a large mass of "subjects", standardized and indoctrinated to serve the great leader). Of course, we gotta add ridiculous nationalism and racism there as well, but if you strip Japanese fascism of that, you get a very socialist society.
Now, in comparison, what has the "right wing" done? Before we go into that, let's clear up what the "right wing" exactly is. First of, the "difference" between commies and nazis as being "left" and "right" does not appear until after WW2. Why? Quite clear, the commies tried to hide the fact that Hitler and his goons were national socialists (while commies are international socialists). They were of the same breed, the same kind of garbage. The "right", historically, was what the commies called the "bourgeoisie". Citizens, people with higher education, etc. Yes, pretty much the kind of people that "revolutionary" leftists wanted to murder. And these people have done... what? Hmmm... let me think for a second. But, in fact, I can't think of anything that would even be remotely like genocide or mass murder...
Ok, so who's surprised that the leftists today are so hate-filled?
Not I.
And let's also keep in mind that people, who dare to stand up for freedom and democracy, in today's Europe... are called NAZI by leftists.
According to the leftists I'm a nazi because I'm for freedom of speech, for religious freedom, for political freedom, for freedom fo the economy, but against sharia law and against socialism.
It shows that leftists these days are not only the most hate-filled group, but also lack any actual education on what a nazi (which is an abbreviation for the German term "NationalSOZIALIST", national socialist) really is.
The German saying is true!
If you're not a leftist with 20, you lack heart.
If you're STILL a leftist with 30, you lack brain.
Too bad Joe the Plumber is not registered to vote, if the reports are true.
I think many disinterested Americans are likely in store for a rude awakening come the end of January as the liberal agenda becomes difficult to hamper, let alone reverse.
Not hopeless for McCain, but doubtful so far...
Law Said:"Joe the plumber needs to get himself an accountant if his business pays him a $250,000 salary and he is concerned about the incremental increase of 3% on the money he will earn over $250K."
I'm guessing you have absolutely no clue as to how LLC's work. The owner(s) of an LLC pay taxes as personal income on the total revenue - deductions. That's how small businesses work. He may "pay" himself $250,000, but he'll be paying the taxes of the entire company out of that, which could be $200,000.
I work for a fairly large LLC, an AE firm of 200 people. If there's an increase of taxation by 3%, that will reduce the total income of the company by about 3%. That affects my job/salary and I don't make 250,000.
Palin/Plumber - I'm there! Where's the bumper sticker?
This guy makes more sense than all the elite twits combined.
Go JOE!!
I hope people are really listening to this. Unfortunately, I am becoming more convinced that people want socialism because the "old fashioned way" of working for what you get like Joe is doing is too hard.
http://o2richenvironment.blogspot.com/
It won't be long before somebody calls Joe The Plumber a racist. After all he's white and bald. He just LOOKS LIKE one of those Neo-Nazi skinheads!
Plus he said Sammy Davis Jr.
NB, one can say that Obama's tax policies will put many more people out of work, in order to transfer wealth from workers to non-workers. Is it his goal to put ALL of us out of work? This is a window to how Dems/Socialists think. They really don't want working stiffs (like Joe and you and me) - they want non-workers in masses voting for them and dependent on government. There is literally no end to their evil.
Here's the problem: Joe is a hardworking and determined small business man.
In four years when Obama is up for re-election, the media will hunt this guy down and report that the business is healthy and he's put 3 more trucks on the road since 2008.
Not because of anything Obama does, but in spite of it.
But the headline will read: SOCIALISM WORKS. Mark my words.
From Another Rovian Conspiracy - Hope the McCain campaign takes this ball and runs with it:
If I were in the McCain campaign, I'd immediately start airing an ad, showing the "other" Joe's in America. The electrician, the general contractor, the bricklayer, the store owner, the small factory owner providing jobs to Americans.
Is everyone on here rich?
And who on here thinks its perfectly acceptable to have government policies that make the wealthy wealthier and make it harder for working class Americans to move up?
Does a candidate with a plan to fix this middle class America make him a socialist?
And I want to see some of your definitions of "socialism" because you can't simply throw a label on something and expect it to resonate.
I could argue that you are all socialists... you pay social security, you pay taxes... therefore you're paying to social programs.
The mistake that many Republicans make is not understanding that things are rarely black and white... socialist and capitalist.
In order to have a capitalistic society that works, you do have to have some regulations in place... if you call regulations socialism... then maybe you should go to China and see what it really looks like.
If socialism is the belief that everyone (not just those already wealthy) should have a fair chance at the American dream... then I'm a socialist.
Marxist-Socialist philosophy revolves around the "redistribution of wealth". In a theoretically perfect Marxist economy everybody would make the exact same amount of money. In order to accomplish this, the government taxes the "rich" and gives that money to the "poor".
The US was founded on a free market capitalist philosophy. This philosophy says that you work for your pay. Now, this is not always monetary. For example, many people become teachers, arguably one of the lower paying professions. However, they worked hard in school to meet that goal.
Socialism destroys that ethic. Why would I want to work hard and make a lot of money if the government is just going to take it away? What is to stop the government from decided that "rich" is anything over $50,000? At some point you get people that realize it is much easier to stay at home and collect welfare than to work. Then where does that leave our economy?
I pay taxes because I have to. I don't agree with everything that my tax dollars are spent on.
I've been discussing all of this on my blog the last several weeks.
http://o2richenvironment.blogspot.com/
Let the "vetting" begin. This morning I heard that several ABC reporter were already checking out Joe and were reporting he was not registered to vote in Ohio. Guess Acorn missed his neighborhood.
Do they do this to every person on the street they get comments on? What else are they looking at in Joe's past? I thought they had the election won. Sound desperate to me.
Blake, you might try reading up a bit on Socialism. Most of what you're posting is 'factoids' that have little to do with either socialism or capitalism (let alone free markets).
Tell you what. I'm not wealthy, but if you send me your paycheck every time you get one I'll redistribute it the way I think works best for everybody.
Now, replace me with the government and see how much you like either.
As for opportunity, I seriously invite you to take a very close look at Socialist countries, or even ones with some socialist policies. In those places, opportunity for the poor and/or lower classes goes down, not up.
I have students who periodically want to get 'free' college the way 'they' do in Germany. I then invited them to see what percentage of students in Germany is *allowed* to go to college and how they decide who gets in. That usually finishes that idea.
Try not arguing from ignorance so much and you might become useful.
Memo to the MSM and the moonbats:
Go ahead and try to "Palinize" this guy, I dare you.
I double-dog dare you.
Be a fan of Joe the Plumber!!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Joe-the-Plumber/28980014635?ref=nf
That didn't take long....
The "tolerant left" at HuffPo have already posted Joe the Plumber's addresses and phone numbers and are calling him a "white supremacist". I wonder how long it will be before this guy starts getting harassed by some "professional government workers" and union officials.
Blake,
With all due respect, are you blind and unimformed about Obama, his past, his present friends?
OBama surrounds himself not with just dangerous terrorist that bombed our nation, but their Marxist ideas for our nation. That is what is so dangerous about him economically. Forget the stupidity of hanging around with unrepentent haters of America for a moment.
That is the point that is not being told to Americans by the left biased Media today. That all of OBama's friends are Marxist, Socialist, and failed Slum Lord criminals from his Chicago experience. He has resided over nothing but experimental Marxist failures in his career and failed public housing projects with criminals.
Obama can care less about Middle Class. He is using this false red flag to woo some over to his side. But the truth is, he hates the Middle Class. Just read any of the junk he believes from his Mentors and you'll find the Truth. For example, one of his heroes is Saul Alinsky. A Radical far left nutter that introduced ACORN type tactics to undermind our nations electoral process and advocates for elimination of the get this, "bourgeois" Middle Class.
You have to READ Blake. Read about all the Marxist beliefs that Obama has bought into in his life training and decisions. You know, as a nation, as a people we must know our history and that of the world regarding Marxist, Socialist, Communist hatred of the "bourgeois Middle Class"
You have to read what Obama has been reading all his life. What he's been trained to do all his life by Communist mentor Frank Davis from childhood, to Marxist/Terrorist William Ayers, to Saul Alinsky worship, to his Marxist Black Liberation theology pastor, Jeremiah Wright for more than 20 years. They all believe in re-dististribution of the Wealth by Enforcement of the Central State. That is Socialism and Marxist ideology Blake.
If you want to be dependent upon the Government, fine. Thats your choice. They will also tell you everything to do in your life, including your childrens choices. Because they pay you, they keep you, they are your Masters.
It is a failed policy around the World. In fact, our Middle Class in America lives better than any in the world. Try Socialism in Europe, in small flats, with high rates of taxes and poor nationalized health care where you wait weeks for any service for the most simple of procedures that would be done in hours or days here.
A typical Middle Class worker here enjoys big homes with three bedrooms or more today, large living spaces, two bathrooms, open yards, and a blue sky, with a two car garage and two cars.
A typical socialist family enjoys a small flat, one bathroom, one bedroom or two if lucky, no yard, no blue sky, no garage, no car.
This is the Socialist way of life.
Trust me I've been all over Europe, former Soviet Union, etc. Don't even get into the failed nations of Cuba, Venezuela, China, etc.
And you know what. Thats OK for some who grow up in life in tiny flats, scrunched into small spaces. But that is NOT America. We are a big, wide open country with great big dreams that everyone can make it here. From the poorest immigrant that comes across our shores, to the Europeans that are fleeing a failed society, to the South Americans that flee a failed socialist nations and enter illegally across our borders.
What Obama wants to do is cap America's Free Market system at the knees, cut her down, make her weaker in Defense and more like other nations. He detest our military strength and is own record for reducing it. He detest our Middle Class and is own record for admiring all the Marxist, Communist and Socialist that hate our nations open market system.
Sorry, but you're uninformed about why this fight is so important.
==================================
McCain believes in low taxes for all peoople. The top half of the nation pays all the taxes. The lowest 30=40% pays nothing. So now you want to give out welfare? Welfare to people making $50K a year? Here's the deal. IF you cannot live on $50K a year, think about moving someplace else. Stop living in Democrat controlled states and cities. Move to low tax, or no state-income, low property tax areas, where you are allowed to breathe the fresh air.
Are you kidding me? I don't want these handouts! Because it is just the tip of the iceberg. These are not the only taxes Obama wants to put on peoples backs. There are many more mandates on Middle Income earners and employers that he will enforce. It will stagnate our nation much worse and more employees will be out of work than ever before. He will create the Next Depression, just Like Herbert Hoover did in the 30s.
I come from low income, in fact, poverty level in the past. In college I lived without many things that most students have today. I worked my way through college and never thought of complaining. I never expected a handout from anyone richer than me. I expected to learn from them! And to move up in life! That is the American dream. All is possible in this nation unlike any other.
I started out making less than $20K, then $30K $50K, even upwards. What are you and others turning into? I've never hears so much blubbering give me, give me than today's spoiled brats from the 60s generation and their spawn.
The greatest nation ever on earth for upwardly mobile people to succeed and now you want to shut it all down and for what? So some family has to cut down on their NHL hockey package in order to buy insurance? Because families refuse to budget their expenses? Because they refuse to stop spending on needless garbage and save?
Honestly, this is becoming crazy. People making $100K feeling like they deserve welfare checks in the mail. People living in 3 bedroom homes with two cars thinking they deserve welfare.
Because I'm informed about history and the failures of the past. This is just small time bribes to start with. And the nationaliized health care plan of Obama? He'll put even more taxes on small businesses and corporations. Which will cause more jobs to be lost. He'll raise capital gains tax, which will cause more money to flee our markets and our nation to other nations around the world. He had to change his plan as it got out he was actually penalizing the Middle Class retirees. But its just temporary until he gets elected.
He will cause true disaster, a major depression. There needs to be reform, not heavy taxation of the markets, financial systems, small businesses, and entrepreneurs that create our greatest economy on earth.
Not the forced intimidation tactics of failed Democrat policies and ACORN strong-arming our financial institutions that led to the mess in the first place.
Are you OK with bad loans to illegals? To people with no jobs? With no income? With no credit history? With no verification?
That is what OBama fought for as lawyer, as trainer of ACORN, as a "community organizer" and what Democrats fought for and got beginning under Clinton. The Democrats blocked every attempt to stop the financial disaster.
They created it. They inspired it from the beginning. And many of Obama's largest donors are from Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, plus slimey thieves like the Sanders who made $2.5 Billion off bad subprime loans. Which the Democrats kept forcing on American banks thru FM/FM even after being warned by Bush over 17 times at Congressional meetings thru his Treasurey dept and other press releases and speeches.
Now that is the kind of Greed Obama can believe in. Where he takes all the donations from the sleazy rip-off con artist of the left that got us in this mess and uses it to run a campaign that says he cares.
Funny how the media does not run with all the corruption on Obama's side.
If they were objective media, Obama would never had been elected and the American people would know the truth about the Democrats forcing Socialist failed policies thru our banking and financial markets.
Some corporations got greedy, and bought up these failed subprime loans. Not realiziing that people like the Sanders was scum making up false loans in billions of bad subprime deals. Our nation was taken, stripped and stolen by people like the Sanders who support Obama.
Now available for purchase, "Don't Tax Me, Bro!" shirts, mugs, stickers, etc.
Enjoy
Dave,
Thanks for you moment of sanity. Most people do not realize how Socialism works. And that once bureaucrat socialist get in, they never get out. They make work for their failed ideology and failed systems. Instead of teaching good values. They experiment on one failed policy after another. They create more work for them and call it "caring" and "taking care" of the Middle Class. But truth is every single program they create takes more money from the system.
And as you say, they limit people in education, but also in healthcare. And in every part of life.
Just one examply of Far Left nutters out of control in Europe....
Germany wanted to force women on unemployment status to take jobs as prostitutes. Can you believe it?
OK, no more unemployment checks while you can be a prostitute and sell your body.
This is what happens as socialist with no real morals in life get in control of a nation.
Englands nationalized healthcare is a disaster for the poor and middle class stuck on it. Canadians come to America daily for good healthcare.
The truly uninformed that have not traveled and buy into this BS from Obama have no clue how good we all have it here.
The real problem with Large City, Urban city breakdown is that Democrats have ruled for the last 40 years. Even if you get a Republican Mayor, you still have Democrats in majority of districts that fail to pass Reform time and time again.
They have instituted a series of failed socialism with the lower class and now they're trying to expand these failed blights on society into the Middle Class. These failed systems of socialist values and education create more failures in inner city zones damned with liberal far left policies.
What Republicans and Conservatives must do is take back our inner cities block by block and hold them, rebuild them and begin to teach inner city youth about the good values, truth and liberty this nation is build upon.
By giving away failed areas in cities and education systems to the left, we are now seeing the low hanging fruit of socialism bleed into America mainstream with failed adults that cannot think for themselves, that vote for more failures in life. That vote for Nanny Gov to take care of them.
The only way to stop the bleeding is to go to the CORE of Democrat failures in inner cities around America and take them back with sound, fiscal, and moral policies through Conservative groups.
To continue to allow Democrats rule without a fight in these areas means there is "no competition" of ideas. There is no healthy debate or competing ideas. So the inner city is left to the old Democrat plantation plans to keep everyone poor and answering to the government.
We cannot just fight for the Presidency or Senate and Congress. We have to start fighting in the worst areas of our nation. We must fight at the grass roots level and stop allowing Democrats to demonize anyone that believes in what our Founding Fathers did for this great country and the original values and morals that made it great.
What made this country great was not failed socialist handouts. What made it great are its spiritual roots of Individual Liberty and the "pursuit" of happiness. Not some government guaranteed blue pill that each person must ingest to survive in "collective salvation."
Here is a policy McCain should ask Socialist Obama to stick to.
If he is for Taxing the Job Creators in our nation. He should also be for Taxing Harvard and Columbia, Yale, MIT, Berkeley, etc., and all their billions.
I think they should "Spread the Wealth" of all these Rich Universities to other poor colleges around the nation.
Joe the Plumber is just thinking and saying what everyone with half a brain is thinking.
Obama wants to give the middle class guy earning under $250,000 a year a break on taxes so he can build his business up to the point where he too can earn $250,000 someday just so he, Obama, can tax him to the point where this guy will again be considered a middle class guy earning under $250,000. You can't give the guy a break, so that you can tax him when he starts doing well for himself just so his acquired wealth can be distributed to those who haven't made the effort.
Obama is a moron if he thinks anyone will have any incentive to grow their business and hire more people if when the business achieves a certain dollar figure, they will be taxed out of their earnings so they can have their wealth distributed.
This is worse that socialism - this is a lie. People will start and end up at the same point with Obama's idea of tax relief for the middle class. No one will ever get out of middle class.
And let's not forget who REALLY ends up paying for the higher taxes proposed for those like Joe:
1> Their customers -- i.e. US -- in the form of higher prices.
2> Their employees -- i.e. some of US -- in the form of reduced salaries and benefits if prices can't be raised ... in some cases, reduced to ZERO as they hit the unemployment line.
And when you try to do this to larger firms ... they pack up and leave for the many nations with lower or no corporate tax rates than we have here.
Soak the rich ... AND WE ALL GET DRENCHED!
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You can argue capitalism is God's gift to man and for the most part you're right... but you can't ignore that there are certain markets that need to be "socialised", as you call it, I call it regulated, to better the economy as a whole.
The greatest thing about capitalism is supposed to be that every business has a chance to grow and that people always get the best product or service at the best price, and its all driven by competition.
That sounds great from an ideological standpoint.
But what about when certain markets are hurting the economy as a whole even though technically they are following capitalistic principles.
Exxon/Mobile does not want alternative fuels because they are making more money off of oil. The more oil prices go up, the more profit they're able to claim.
Unfortunately, this means that some truck drivers will get laid off, the price of everything from groceries to clothes will cost more, and ultimately many businesses will fail due to rising shipping costs.
Now don't you think that when a company like Exxon's capital gains are significantly bringing down the economy as a whole... don't you think they should be regulated? Or do you think it should continue until the point of you not being able to afford to drive your car before you change your mind?
I'm just using energy as an example, I also think the healthcare industries, and credit industries could use some serious regulatin'... but I don't have time to detail all that to you right now.
The change that is coming is change from ideological viewpoints to flexible viewpoints based on reason.
Reason says yes, for the better economy, there must be some regulation and some push to get us off of oil... Ideology says, its a free market society and they should be able to bring down our economy if they want to.
You guys are so ideologically driven, you'd cut off your nose to spite your face.
We've found out what happens when people are intolerant, inflexible, and entirely driven by ideals rather than by reason. (see: Osama bin Laden)
Denise said the left is horrible and then states that Obama is their hero. Denise apparently hasn't seen all the horrible things the right has said about the left's hero. The right is really, really, really horrible. The right in order to win an election will try to paint an American as not being an American. The right divides and separates the country in an effort to win an election. The Right does not win elections because the majority of America is like the right. No, the Right wins by lying, cheating, voter suppression, issue dodging, distractions, by any means necessary. So, Denise before just bashing the left. Take a gander at the right. You won't like what you see over there, either.
Joe is a shill for McShame... He's not a Plumber... He's related by marriage to Keating the criminal... and if you do the math, Joe must be worth lots to be able to buy a that makes 250,000 a year(?)... and the Plumber's Union endorses Obama... and he doesn't seem to be registered to vote...
Yep, he's the GOP American Dream. The son of a criminal who was arrested on domestic disturbance charges and isn't registered to vote... Weird,
The Neo GOP got nothing but vapid empty-headed Talking Points.
Blake,
You can also argue on lies from the left if you like.
Lets breakdown all your misinformation, or disinformation and propaganda... with many false assertions and assumptions.
----------------------------------
"You can argue capitalism is God's gift to man and for the most part you're right..."
It is not just capitalism I am arguing and this is where most leftist are lost and blind that believe in failed secular and socialist nation states. Our Founding Fathers believed in Federalism and States Rights, not a Centralized Socialist State. They also believed in Freedom of Religion so highly they placed it in the First Amendment.
Benjamin Franklin made the statement that if our morals are lost, then our nation is lost. He is proven prophetical as our morals in this nation are lost and now the lost want to be led by Nanny Gov.
The Founding Fathers rejected Tyrants and they rejected large government for a reason. Anytime leaders grow the government into a larger footprint on the nation they then become tyrannical, no matter what kind of system. Dictatorship, Socialism, Communism, or Monarchy. It is not just that Obama wants to tax higher income. He wants to impose fines on everyone too if they do not follow his enforced mandates. This is tyranny that the Founding Fathers would never accept in regards to taxes.
The very problems we face today is because we went away from Federalist ideas and Free Market economy and the Democrats enforced Socialist policies on our banks.
"but you can't ignore that there are certain markets that need to be "socialised", as you call it, I call it regulated, to better the economy as a whole."
Regulations for honest, transparetn business is good. That is the only thing our government should do. But you're playing the leftist game of misleadingly renaming Socialism - regulation. That is simply not true. Once you cross the line of wealth redistribution you enter new territory. Stop playing semantics.
"The greatest thing about capitalism is supposed to be that every business has a chance to grow and that people always get the best product or service at the best price, and its all driven by competition."
Yep, that's right. And everytime government steps in to force prices low, they screw it up. They hurt the economy and stop up the pipes with garbage. Thats when you must call in Joe the Plumber to clear the pipes again and release market forces.
"That sounds great from an ideological standpoint."
It is great. It is the greatest idea so far in this crazy world we live in. It has led to the most succesful nation on earth. But again, only because we had a Judeo-Christian foundation that required honesty and discipline. The ACLU and Democrats have taken this away from our schools and colleges and now our society suffers as more people today are undisciplined and our leaders are thieves, bribers and cheats. This "regulation" as you call it with our childrens lives has now created a very corrupt society. Again, listen to Benjamin Franklins predictions.
"But what about when certain markets are hurting the economy as a whole even though technically they are following capitalistic principles."
Well, that's a lie. Not by you, but by the people you read and trust for guidance on the left. The truth is quite different. The Democrats stopped the Capitalist process and introduced Socialist forced mandates of "affordable housing" to people with no jobs, no income and no verification of credit history.
Do you see now where you have made your biggest mistake? This is the first problem of deception by liars as leaders for our nation.
They must be run out of their offices.
"Exxon/Mobile does not want alternative fuels because they are making more money off of oil. The more oil prices go up, the more profit they're able to claim."
No kidding. That is the inherit profit motive allowed to solve problems. The problem comes in when people like Obama do not permit them to do their work. Instead he and the Democrats did not allow drilling offshore. But their hypocrisy as puppets of George Soros allowed their biggest donor to invest in Brazilian Oil companies up to $800 million.
So tell me Blake. Why is it OK for George Soros to compete around the world, but tell his Democrat puppets not to allow competition at home in America?
Now do you see your second mistake of trusting Obama, Pelosi and Reid? These are liars and hypocrites that Demonized our own nation and companies while their Puppet Master took advantage of Oil Markets for future gain. Therefore, its OK for their puppet Master, but not for you and me in America.
"Unfortunately, this means that some truck drivers will get laid off, the price of everything from groceries to clothes will cost more, and ultimately many businesses will fail due to rising shipping costs."
Again, this is not the American oil companies fault. This is George Soros and the Democrats fault for not allowing free market competition. I am all for Solar, Wind, Battery, Electric Vehicle, but I am also for American Companies to freely compete, unlike Obama whose puppet Master invest in a Brazilian oil firm.
"Now don't you think that when a company like Exxon's capital gains are significantly bringing down the economy as a whole... don't you think they should be regulated?"
Your kidding right? What about all the investors that make money? The Moms, Pops, Teachers? They all make money off the success of Exxon, or IBM or any company that does well. The problem is when you shut down the markets and do not allow them to compete fairly at home, while George Soros grows rich and uses his money to fund Socialism. Why is he the only god allowed to play games around the world?
"Or do you think it should continue until the point of you not being able to afford to drive your car before you change your mind?"
Again, you've fallen into lies from the left. It is Obama who believes high oil prices for America was a good thing. American Oil companies did not drive the prices high. Oil cartels, Socialist like Chavez did, Russia did, Middle East did.
George Soros and Democrats did by "over-regulating" if you must our Commodities. If they would back off and allow a true Free Market where local companies compete and resources are open, Millions of jobs would be created and Tax Revenue would go up for City, State and Federal.
"I'm just using energy as an example, I also think the healthcare industries, and credit industries could use some serious regulatin'... but I don't have time to detail all that to you right now."
You mena the regulation that John McCain tried to pass? That Obama opposed and the Democrats blocked? That regulation was to stop the interference of Socialist giving away houses for free to people that had no income or credit history.
Look, again, our Founding Fathers believed in honesty and integrity. What happened in this mess all started with Socialist Engineering 101 policies.
"The change that is coming is change from ideological viewpoints to flexible viewpoints based on reason."
Actually, the change that is coming is ideological totalitarianism based upon failed antiquated systems that created the very mess we are in today.
"Reason says yes, for the better economy, there must be some regulation and some push to get us off of oil..."
Well, you have to first be able to stableize prices. You cannot do that without American companies to have freedom to pump American oil. Once you get that process going again, then you can transition us off of oil and onto gee... Nuclear, like France. But the Democrats blocked it every chance we get. Like John McCain said, go take a look at any Naval Carrier and you'll see an efficient city run on nuclear power. But thats not all. We have the ability for Clean Coal now. And Solar, Wind, GeoThermal and Natural Gas and Electric Vehciles. We must do ALL OF THE ABOVE.
"Ideology says, its a free market society and they should be able to bring down our economy if they want to."
This is a huge lie. You are now a troll. You are now demonizing using some leftist talking point. And the markets were brought down by ACORN types and Obama, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank and others that mandated Socialist Engineering policies on our nation and introduced SubPrime loans. Some of Obama's largest donors are the very crooks that ran the system from Franklin Raines to the Sandlers - that made off with 2.4 billion in crooked subprime deals.
Even Saturday Night Live recognized the evil of Sanders, Barney Frank and Pelosi lying to the America people.
"You guys are so ideologically driven, you'd cut off your nose to spite your face."
And you'd buy a piece of coastal front property from Harry Reid in Nevada. Your arguments are now a parody of ignorannce and cliches.
"We've found out what happens when people are intolerant, inflexible, and entirely driven by ideals rather than by reason. (see: Osama bin Laden)"
And we also found out when a nation is dumb, stupid and blind thy do not take threats seriously(see first terrorist attack in 1993) and instead ignore the terrorist attacks on our nation and around the world from Kenya to Lebanon to Yemen.
You just lost all it with a bunch of stupid drivel.
Since you refuse to see the truth that the Democrats forced this garbage on Americans in the first place.
So much for taking you seriously. Your just another whacko throwing out insults in the end.
According to your insane logic, Barney Frank is like Osama bin Laden because of his ideology and his beliefs. While Barney Frank is propably one of the stupid idiots and blind moonbats for forcing such garbage on America. I'd never compare him to Osama bin Laden.
And now that you've compared us all to a murdering thug terrorist that killed 3,000 Americans, go back to your moonbat cave.
Next....
leesa,
...and your a nutjob for DailyKos. Another clueless victim turned mouthpiece for the worst garbage spewed forth onto our nation.
"Every generation needs a new revolution." - Thomas Jefferson (author of our constitution)
curt b.
Obama divide our nation. Pelosi/Reid divided our nation all during a time of war while our troops are in harms way.
Obama accepts hundreds of thousands by Code Pinko Commies that also sent over $600,000 to terrorist enemies in Iraq.
How pathetic that you support a man that supports traitors to our nation and accepts their blood money.
Obama demonnized and damns our nation at home and abroad.
He demonized American oil companies while his puppet Master George Soros, convicted criminal in France, on the loose in America invested over $800 million in a Brazilian oil company!
Take your pathetic drivel back to your false messiah.
OBama demonizes our nation, demonizes Penssylvannians. Calling them bitter, and his Democrat partner and liar and scumbab ABSCAM partner Murth demonizes people in PA to as racist.
The only Divider of this nation today are the Democrats. They divide every single one of us by our skin color instead of our policy differences and values.
They lie, cheat, steal, voter fraud, intimidation to silence like the Geztapo. They demonize our troops by comparing them to Nazis.
That is the Democrats. Undermine our nation every way they can. Defeat it while at war. Defeat and demoralize our troops. Vote against funding. And Declare Defeat on National TV!
You suport the scummiest nominee ever electd to the Democrat Party that sit for more than 20 years at a false church of hatred, a vile racist leader, anti-semite that divides our nation from his angry and racist views. This is who Obama supported all his life in Chicago and what he still represents today.
Bidne/Obama Dividers by Race/Class
McCain/Palin Uniters by of All people to work together. Who truly do not care about race and still believe in the American dream that has been more sucessful than any other nation in the world.
curt b.
Obama divide our nation. Pelosi/Reid divided our nation all during a time of war while our troops are in harms way.
Obama accepts hundreds of thousands by Code Pinko Commies that also sent over $600,000 to terrorist enemies in Iraq.
How pathetic that you support a man that supports traitors to our nation and accepts their blood money.
Obama demonnized and damns our nation at home and abroad.
He demonized American oil companies while his puppet Master George Soros, convicted criminal in France, on the loose in America invested over $800 million in a Brazilian oil company!
Take your pathetic drivel back to your false messiah.
OBama demonizes our nation, demonizes Penssylvannians. Calling them bitter, and his Democrat partner and liar and scumbab ABSCAM partner Murth demonizes people in PA to as racist.
The only Divider of this nation today are the Democrats. They divide every single one of us by our skin color instead of our policy differences and values.
They lie, cheat, steal, voter fraud, intimidation to silence like the Geztapo. They demonize our troops by comparing them to Nazis.
That is the Democrats. Undermine our nation every way they can. Defeat it while at war. Defeat and demoralize our troops. Vote against funding. And Declare Defeat on National TV!
You suport the scummiest nominee ever electd to the Democrat Party that sit for more than 20 years at a false church of hatred, a vile racist leader, anti-semite that divides our nation from his angry and racist views. This is who Obama supported all his life in Chicago and what he still represents today.
Bidne/Obama Dividers by Race/Class
McCain/Palin Uniters by of All people to work together. Who truly do not care about race and still believe in the American dream that has been more sucessful than any other nation in the world.
Blake,
If you're going to quote our Founding Fathers, then you agree with them to fight tyranny.
Obama is tyranny. He believes in taxing people against their will. That is what started the Bosten Tea party. Don't be so misinformed or ignorant.
Obama is what Jefferson fought against, a usurper of power that takes money away from the people. You have no right to my money. Got it? Thus the Second Commandment. Thus the ability to Impeach a sitting President. Thus a Federalist System of States Rights and Local Government down to the smallest towns.
Tyranny is Obama coming into my town and telling me how to live, and to tax my success.
That is why our nation started out with We the People.
Obama would take us backwards away from our Founding Fathers beliefs.
Be very careful what you hope for, a revolution just may be what you get in ways you do not plan.
The true revolution that must take place is to get back to what our Founding Fathers beleived in. That would mean kicking out the Democrats fully and many Republicans today.
My opinion is that Joe was a plant by the Republican's, he seemed a little to rehearsed. Obama isn't about socialism but hey... I lived in Canada for many years and they have a little more government involvement and you know what... it works. Everyone has health coverage, banks don't fail, business still thrives and the economy isn't any worse than ours.
wavesonshore,
Right, thats why Canadians come to America for healthcare.
There's a reason conservatives took over your nations government after the liberals ran it into the gournd with their corruption.
What you don't get is the Democrats did the same here with their mandates for housing that forced loans to people with no credit checks and no income.
That was their failed policy. It has nothing to do with our normal capitalistic approach.
It was a failure of leftist socialsim run amok and not allowing any sound principles. They blocked all attempts to stop it as well.
So, in fact your nation is probably not suffering because you did not allow such practices to start.
Our President warned the Democrats at least 17 times on record to stop it, to stop haul in FannieMae and Freddie Mac.
John McCain tried to stop it too.
The Democrats blocked the bill all voting agaist it in committee.
Obama surrounds himself with the very people that caused the problem and accepted money from them as the second highest recipient from these failed lenders after only three years. The first place recipient was Chris Dodd, Democrat and Committee Chair with responsibility for oversight.
Canada is also the same place that took Mark Steyn to some Kangeroo court to stop free speech.
Lovely...
But I do think the Conservatives for backing our nation in Afghanistan. The Canadians are good people. But your healthcare sucks.
Truth abourt Canadian HealthCare is in Crisis:
---------------------------------
"The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: "the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest; Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.
Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis."
"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.""
Oh and another thing Canada allows?
They allow Drilling for Oil.
Thus Canada has become America's biggest oil supplier. This is another reason your doing well.
If our Democrats would allow drilling in America like Canada we would have a better economy too.
The Democrats are practicing socialist environmental nightmare against our nation. But hey, you Canadians get the benefit of high prices on oil.
Alright, so I tried to have an intelligent conversation about capitalism and socialism... but I can see you're not quite ready for that. To you its still good vs. evil and I don't have the stomach to talk you down from your fascist dream world.
Good luck! And even though you don't have the capacity to understand that the next 8 years under Obama will be infinitely more benefitial to you personally than the last 8 years... you'll figure it out once you get your 2009 tax returns.
Joshua, sorry but you are misinformed.
Canada has had a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism for the greater part of its existence.
Canada has been running budget surpluses for the better part of a decade now, Canada has been paying down its debt, Canada's pension system and social safety net is very healthy, unemployment is at its lowest.....ever, our healthcare which as always could use improving but is still excellent and provides coverage and adequate care to all. Corporate taxation is lower then it is in the states and if you factor in that I don't pay health insurance/coverage (included in my taxes), then I pay just as little taxes as an American does with the same income down south.
Now Joshua you state that Canadians come to America to access healthcare providers. Why yes we do, in many cases our healthcare providers make use of the surplus space you have down south to create greater access for Canadian end users, this of course injects money into the American system (no need to thank us). See our healthcare providers need to run things tight and efficient and some times the surplus that is available elsewhere helps this out.
Lets see, our Liberal government which you speak of with disdain, was the same Liberal government that got us into this great financial position and have been running surpluses ever since. Yes the Liberal government in power at the time got a bit cocky and drunk on power (just like the conservative government before them), but the only reason the Conservatives are in minority power in Canada right now is because of vote splitting. Approximately 63% of Canadian voters voted for parties left of centre - Canada is a left of centre nation by and large.
Oh and it was the Liberal government that originally sent our soldiers to Afghanistan, not the Conservatives.
........and you must remember our Conservatives aren't like your Republicans. Our Conservatives are more equatable to your Democrats when it comes to levels of conservatism.
As for Oil Drilling. We don't have any offshore drilling on the West Coast and our environmental laws are quite strict, but I think you still drill way more then we do.
As for socialism in America, you've already got it. That almost Trillion dollar buy out is probably the greatest example of fiscal socialism to ever happen in history - brought to you by a Republican President.
Now the rest of the Fannie stuff and sub-prime mortgage is really debatable. Why do you think the Republicans are not all over it, if as you say it was the Democrats fault? That is because there is more then enough blame to go around for everyone - republican or democrat.
In the long version of the video Obama goes into baffling him wuth tax policy BS once he finds out he can't dazzle Joe with brilliance. Obama brings up taking $500 away from the wealthy who aren't struggling and giving it to the waitress he met that morning who might be struggling.
Why not simply cut the waitress's tax burden by $500 and leave the middle man out of it? Same result. Because politicians want to grease their palms with the money first so they can earmark it to stay elected and stroke their ego. You don't really think these socialists want a national health care care system because they give a damn about the citizens other than a source of cash to buy votes. No, it is because they have pillaged the Social Security funds and are simply looking for a new trough to feed from.
Now if you want to elect more of the same of this wasting your money through earmarks then Obama should be your choice and you become part of the problem. McCain rarely, if ever, took part in this practice.
Politcal parties, concepts of left and right, have divided our nation to the extent that one side can not see the merits of the other. Obama is not a "left-wing terrorist bent on destroying our country" and neither is McCain nor Palin a "war-brewing, bible-thumping intolerant racist". Please, attempt coherant and thoughtful debates instead of slipping back into the campaign rhetoric that either side flings at one another like day-old cabbage in a middle school cafeteria.
waveonshore and Toowoozy -
I also lived in Canada for several years - in Alberta. We heard many horror stories about the hospital system in Calgary. Our family was so appalled by the health care system that we made the effort to continue having all of our health care, including all of my husband's cancer treatments, down in the states. In Alberta, if a person needs a CAT scan or MRI, they have to wait their turn in the "queue" which usually takes weeks. However in the states, my husband always received his CAT, bone scan or MRI the same day or the very next. I would never want to see the Canadian Health care system adopted in the United States.
I also found the Alberta Conservatives to be exactly like our Montana Conservatives. No difference whatsoever. Except for the exporting/importing of beef, they were in agreement on all the same issues. I even became a member of the Canadian Alliance. (I couldn't vote, but I could be a member.)
I also did lots of our grocery and clothes shopping while we were back in the states for Doctor appointments because the prices were simply better in Montana, even before the exchange rate reversed.
WhiteTrashVote.blogspot.com
Hey Joshua:
I may feel the same about you as you feel about me... I don't know you... i know your silly off-slant rants... that's all.
But I do think it's funny that so many of the Right-Wing-Nut-Job Monkey Bats, no offense of course, constantly talk about how Obama is "dividing our country..."
That is such crap. The GOP's whole social agenda has been to divide... besides steal all your money, of course. As much as Junior said he was "a uniter, not a divider..." only an idiot couldn't see how he constantly was in dividing mode...
In terms of dividing: The hateful creeps at McShame/Bible Spice's rallies show who you are.
I believe in the Commons for Americans... not for the Corporations. McSame believes in tax breaks for all his crony contributers like the Oil Corps. And he's a War-Damaged angry old fart who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any WMDs.
"Worst garbage..." Yea... nothing like the hateful tripe you guys spew... keep drinking the idiot Kool Aid... but be careful... you are definitely close to drowning.
And... It's funny that you had no comeback about Joe the lying phony never was a Plumber... and his connections to the Keatings.
xoxo.
Hey Brian:
Thanx for a very thoughtful response... but...
I do agree that Obama is certainly not a terrorist... that's insane nonsense rhetoric... and I would argue his being "Left-Wing." McCain keeps saying the ridiculous nonsense that Obama is the most Liberal member of the Senate... More than Dennis, or Chris Dodd? Be serious. Obama is just a gnats hair left of center. The problem is that the terms "Moderate" or "Centrist" have been co-opted by the idiot pundits like Rush, Hannity and O'Rielly into defining radicals like Junior as a Moderate.
I do think that Caribou Barbie is a "Bible-thumper". Have you seen her exorcism? Or read what she says about abortion? It's all The "Moral Majority's" typical ignorant hateful platform.
And McCain is an angry old fart... I can see that with my eyes... "racist?" Probably. For the first two "debates," McCain couldn't even look Obama in the eyes, or shake his hand. That might not be indicative of a racist... but it probably is.
waveonshore
Joe a plant? Um, that's some conspiracy mongering seeing as Joe was playing football with his son in his OWN FRONT YARD as Obama and his traveling PR syphocants (also know as the mainstream media) were going door-to-door in Joe's neighborhood. How did that happen, hmmm?
Leesa is an acolyte in the Religion of Obama.
Hugo Chavez is jealous.
Socialism is already working under the current administration. It's called "government contracting" and if you happen to have a project one of the government's "pet corporations" want, the government will gladly take it away from you and give it to their pet.
I know. I had it done to me.
Also, if you have land a developer wants, they take it. If you won't sell it, they'll condemn it.
How is that for passing around the wealth? The only thing Obama will do differently is just call it what it is. "sharing the wealth"
A better term for it is theft.
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