Balkan Insight


birn
B92
RTK logo
RSG Banner
press online logo
beta
fonet logo







US Decision 2008.
Who would you vote for in the upcoming United States Presidential Election?

John McCain
Barack Obama


Kosovo PM Attends Peace Academy

20 October 2008 Pristina _ Kosovo’s Prime Minister Hashim Thaci has left for Rome to take part in the annual Peace Academy, organised by international foreign policy think-tank, Krans Forum Montana.
Bulgaria For Visa-Free Travel for Serbs

19 September 2008 Nis _ Bulgaria’s ambassador to Serbia has said his country is in favour of a visa-free regime for their Serbian neighbours.
In Some Bosnian Minds, War Never Ends

24 October 2008 Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, linked to wartime suffering, leaves many Bosnians in a constant state of trauma and deep distress – but too few ask for help.

By: Aida Alic, in Sarajevo



Justice Report






Mexico Reverses 'Macedonia' Recognition

Skopje, Macedonia
Skopje, Macedonia
21 October 2008 Skopje _ Mexico is to officially start referring to Macedonia under its provisional UN reference, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM, Skopje media report.

Local Kanal 5 Television reported that the Mexican Foreign Ministry’s website posted an announcement saying that they have changed their mind over Macedonia’s name after talks with Greek officials.

Previously the same day, Macedonia’s government had rebuffed the Greek Foreign Ministry’s allegations that Mexico, Panama, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo had overturned their recognition of Macedonia’s constitutional name.

The Greek Foreign Ministry, the same day published on its own web site what they say were “quotes from the official diplomatic announcements signed by the representatives of the governments of Panama, Mexico, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo” saying they will start using the term FYROM for Macedonia.

Previously Macedonia’s Government claimed that they recently got reassurances from the Mexican ambassador to the UN that his government “neither changed nor discussed the 2001 decision to establish diplomatic ties with Macedonia under its constitutional name”.

The written statement from Macedonia’s Foreign Ministry said Panama’s Foreign Minister Samuel Lewis Navarro also denied Greek allegations in a telephone conversation with his Macedonian counterpart Antonio Milososki. Regarding Congo, the Ministry expressed doubt but said it will check the claims.

“Athens can not reconcile with the fact that more than 125 countries worldwide use our constitutional name,” the Macedonian ministry adds. It notes that the Greek “provocations” are aimed to “manipulate” its own public in order to show Greek diplomacy as “triumphant”.

In April, Athens blocked Skopje’s bid to join NATO and is now threatening to do the same at the EU if Macedonia refuses to change its name. Greece argues that Macedonia’s name implies Skopje’s territorial claims over its own northern province of the same name.

The ongoing UN-sponsored talks between the two sides have so far been fruitless.

In 1993 Macedonia was forced by Greek pressure to enter the UN under the provisional term FYROM pending a resolution to the dispute.

But since then many countries recognised Skopje’s use of the name ‘Republic of Macedonia’, among them the United States, Russia and China.

Main News Page

Comments:
Panama, Kongo and Mexico is a diplomatic effort of three months only.... who is next relally??
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Did you hear that Fyromians??? Do you now understand how contstanly your goverment is lying to it's people, and how much really everything that coming out of their mouths is blind propaganda claims and nothing else??



Panama, Mexico and Republic of Kongo have already lifted the recognitions as "macedonia", and decided to call you FYROM again.



Just to inform you, Republic of Kongo is the third largest african nation, while Mexico is the second largest latin nation - after Brazil, with big political and diplomatic influence worldwide.



And these three countries were persuaded to lift the "macedonia" recognitions and turn to FYROM again, only after a 3 month diplomatic effort by Greece. You can understand what that means, and how the months that will follow will result for your fake and stolen "constitutional game"....



You can keep "swallowing" the propaganda lies by your nationalistic goverment, or you can see the reality, which proves that the one country after the other (by drastic diplomatic effort from Greece), have stopped to "swallow" your fairy tail about "macedonianism". More recognitions from "macedonia" to FYROM will follow in the next two months. Just wait for Russia, China, Nigeria and Brazil in the next two coming months...



Your goverment is in panic, as it sees that is loosing the battle everywhere, at all grounds. Greece will force you to change your name, no matter that you don't like that, because you don't own that name. And we don't care what you like really. You will change your name only because we want you to do so. As simple as that...
Pavlos

How much did you pay for this one?
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
How much did you pay? Did your gov give weapons to already war ridden Congo?
ZL

hmmm
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
''lying to it's people''?? About what are you talking about?? About the Greek goverment lying the Greek public that Mexico and Kongo had reversed their recognition of the name ,,Macedonia''?? Man get real, all those countries are serious, and don't change their opinions like dippers. The fact that the Greek goverment believes this crap tell us the level of crazines that goes around there.

I mean they don't have a single proof that these countries( Mexico,Panama,KOngo) will refer to Republic of Macedonia as ,,FYROM'' but still believe in it like in GOD.

Poor souls. We didn't cared about your crappy VETO in the NATO summit and we will not care in the next years. So you will have to coup to live next to Republic of Macedonia.:)

The only difference will be that in 5 years it will be called Northern Macedonia for international use only. It sounds much better then FYROM don't you think. By the way Macedonian language and nation will be garanteed for us. So bye bye loosers.
pecko

Take it or leave it
Tuesday, October 21, 2008


FYROM has a last chance to the term "Macedonia" by accepting "Republic of Northern Macedonia" as is unilateral name. If this is rejected, there will be no chance of further talks.
Meander

Vardarska and keep your pride
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
FYROM can keep it's face and pride if it is called Vardarska. They even have a soccer team named Vardar. Vardarska is the original name of the place. Think about it, there will be no compromise on anything else. Greece holds the NATO card and it's not looking good for EU entry because of their own failings, then after will come the Greek veto. The game is over for FYROM, what can they possibly do next? Dubya is gone soon, the whole world is waiting. What is the country's future? Gruevski is trying to keep the nationalism game going on forever. Next he will be trying to convince people the EU and Nato isn't where we want to be. He won the last election on a wave of nationalism and will drive the country into the ground over it, 36% unemployment currently.



To pecko, if you're going to call someone a loser, spell properly. And did you read the article above or only the title followed by a nonsense rant? And FYROM sounds great, we could use that forever just as in the Olympic Games.
Alexandros

bye
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
i still prefer fyrom, pronounced "fire 'em", as in made redundant, layed off
uncle dedo

Viva!
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Viva que Mexico ;-}
uncle dedo

johngrnmn@yahoo.com
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
The most appropriate name is Republic of Vardar!
John

Slightly missing the point
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
All of the comments above to my mind miss the point. This would assume some real significance if these countries started to refer to 'Vardarska,' or whatever idiocy the Greek foreign ministry dreams up. Whilst (notional) allies in the EU and NATO remain divided this whole question of who uses what title is less significant than it first appears. I have always felt that this thing about 125 countries (and that depends on how you count countries that use both FYROM and ROM) is overblown. The name issue is not (yet) a global test of the regional settlement as Kosovan recognition is.



Whilst the words, 'Republic,' and, 'Macedonia,' are in the designation little else matters really and truly. Greek aspirations to monpolise the word 'Macedonia' are not getting anywhere. This is where Alexandros totally misses the net effect of what s/he says. By, 'we,' I assume you mean Greece? You can say FYROM all you like, the rest of the world says, 'Macedonia.' The idea that all my wife's friends, colleagues and family are all going to wake up one morning and start referring to her as 'Upper Macedonian,' is very fanciful.



Of course, this is where the Macedonian side misses a trick. 'Upper Macedonia,' would be, 'Macedonia,' to everyone around the world. This whole dispute really is that simple. Less triumphalism, more confidence all round would go a very long way here. Much easier said than done of course!



The article is probably correct that there is a certain over-trimphalism in Greece now. That is to be expected of a country whose current foreign minister supported Slobodan Milosevic not much more than ten years ago, but that's a different story. The Greek case in the modern context is so weak I could struggle to make tea with it, but politics must be the art of the possible and government must be progressive. Many in the region need to go an have a long hard think.



Incidentally, ZL - I'm sure that there is a quid pro quo, that's nothing unusual. The Japanese have been using their aid budget to buy votes to allow them to hunt whales for decades. There was a time when the US effectively paid countries not to go nuclear. That's probably a pretty good comparison.



As an aside to all this, if you go and look at the Mexican Foreign Ministry website now you will see that the page dated 2004 on there refers to both FYROM and 'Macedonia.' I think that that may actually be a very good indication of how 'outsiders' view this.
Dara


Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Boo Hoo, who cares
Sim

Pavlos
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Gee, you've got some world powers supporting you there. Younanistan is amazing. Try Malawi and Mali next.
Taki

To BalkanInsight.com
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
BalkanInsight.com



"21 October 2008 Skopje _ Mexico is to officially start referring to Macedonia under its *"provisional UN reference"*, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM, Skopje media report."



If it is its provisional UN and dont forget by EU also reference, than why do you refer to them as "Macedonia"? This agency needs to get its act straight.
REAL MACEDONIAN = GREEK

What a fuzz!
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
I just got this from a Macedonian friend and I felt some SHAME by my Government... But not all is like it seems: Mexico applied for a membership into the Security Council and was backed by Greece. Mex-Gov is paying back the favor by receiving Greece's Foreign Relations VM and telling him "Yes" to all, including the silly "FYROM" name use... As a Mexican, I can tell this is only a move by my government and don't necessarily express what we, the civilians, feel towards it. Greece has a stupid motive (and I like Greek music and food) just like China over Taiwan: this means that U.S. state called "New Mexico" should stop doing so, otherwise it's getting in trouble with us? NONSENSE! It means that there is a HISTORICAL link! Just like Greece has towards Macedonia via Alexander The Great! This is a mere tantrum from some government and I'm really sorry that they drag the Greek people, the Macedonian people and US to the mudd together with them for nothing! (Thumb down)
Sam

macedonia
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
Dara,

Yes!, you said it well! No matter what the UN Resolution outcome, you and your FYROM population will keep on referring to yourselves as what your Government has fed you now for the past 17 years! That's fine by us Greeks, because by what we read and hear in your Country(FYROM) you people are ALLWAYS making, 'astonishing' new discoveries about your so-called, 'glorious history'. Recently, I read the one about how Jesus Christ was an, Macedonian probably from the Bitola region! (macedonia.org Website) What about the one where two, Electrical Engineer's had deciphered the third text on the Rosetta Stone as being, 'ProtoSlav'????? Dara, what I am trying to say to you and the Slavic Minority in the FYROM is this, Once Greece accepts a 'Formal' name for your Country, like now?? who cares what you People of the FYROM think!! All it takes is to open an Encyclopedia or Google a topic on, Macedonia and the truth prevails, on who the people are and which Greek Tribe they come from!! Untill then, the rest of the world who recognises and appreciates known History around the world just look upon the people from FYROM and think, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????????????????????????????????
Macedonia Forever Greek

deconstruction
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
It feels like we've 'deconstructed' this issue again and again since April, addressing even its so-called primordial origins...



In practical, real-world terms, and without touching on the substance, I still absolutely think this issue was 90/10 percent solved in 2006, weighing in favor of Skopje.



Rep. of Macedonia (Skopje), or RoM-Skopje, probably would have slid by after a provisional period as FYROM in NATO and in commencement of EU accession date negotiations texts.



Therefore, a massive amount of blame for the deterioration in Skopje's position should be laid where it belongs: on the current VMRO government touted by supporters as "patriotic".



Milosevic was a patriot too, or so the internal propaganda went...
Ringo

Propagandists are exposed once again...
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Dara fist of all the name will be "North Macedonia" (like the deal that the "patriot" Gruevski was trying secretally to pass througt, with the help of the former US embassador) and not "Upper Macedonia".



And internationally all people call the North Koreans, "North Koreans", as well as the South Koreans, "South Koreans", So no matter how your bulgarian wife calls FYROM, the name will be North Macedonia and everybody will call it that way.



And Greece never tried to monopolize the name macedonia. You are deliberately lying once again (you do it very often in here, as well as elsewhere). That's why it insistis to a composed name for Fyrom, that will include the term "macedonia" as well as a second term (like North or Upper) that will identify the country from the greek region.



The only part that has been hardly trying to totally monopolize the name macedonia (and all the historical - territorial claims together with it) is FYROM, that's why it was stubbornly denying ANY change to the name "Republic of Macedonia" until now.



Say hello to your beloved bulgarian wife, that you so often mention in your comments but has absolutely nothing to do with macedonia.
Pavlos

Name is not alone. It is connected with other factors..
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
To Sam the "mexican":



If you are really mexican (which I doubt you are) you should know that there is not really only a "historical" problem with the name that Fyrom has.



The problem is that this country is directly connecting the name with territorial claims and hostile behaviour over Greece, teached and promoted systematically even today in all university and school texts and books of Fyrom.



They want to monopolize the name Macedonia, and teach at the same time in all the public schools that "we are half macedonia and Greece has conquered the other half of our country", or the greek co-capital Thessaloniki is "our conquered but real capital of our country".



So this actually sets the basis for current and future territorial claims against Greece, into the minds of all of their society and especially the young generations. This policy is directly promoted and organised bt the central goverment of Fyrom.



And it is obvious that Greece is not going to let such a country to join the "alliances" of NATO and the EU, simply because this country's behaviour is totally hostile against an "ally".



PS: I really liked the parallel you did between the Country of Mexico and the american state of New Mexico. So, I am really wondering.. do they really teach in all the mexican public schools and universities of the country, that the "conquered by real" capital of Mexico is Santa Fe and not Mexico city?? Or that the real borders of the country of Mexico today reach Colorado???



I would really like to see the reaction of the USA, if they were... but fortunately they don't (unlike Fyrom). This is the problem with the behaviour of that nationalistic but artificial country. Not the history.
Pavlos

Disambiguation
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Querido Sam, I'm glad you raise the New Mexico analogy, which begs the obvious question: Why can't a similar solution be applied in this case? Given that the Greek region of Macedonia is the original land of Alexander the Great, as you acknowledge, why can't the ex-Yugoslav state across the border be New Macedonia, and its people New Macedonians? If it really is so obsessed with a name that doesn't even accurately denote its territory (most of it was in fact Paeonia in antiquity, not Macedonia), then the least it can do is accept some form of disambiguation from the older and larger Macedonia, something successive governments in Skopje have blatantly refused to do. That is all Greece is asking for, in the end.

Cleitus Melas

Macedonia
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Ooh, please watch out! I heard on the grapevine that the Macedon Ranges in Victoria, Australia and Macedonia in Ohio, USA are now laying claim to land in Northern Greece. Maybe you should bully them into changing their name.

GFWt's
AussieMac

"Macedonism"
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
ust like most people from FYROM, I used to accept the "Macedonian truth" about our unity as a people and our victimization by neighbors, primarily by Greeks. I was more exposed to anti-Greek propaganda ("600,000 Macedonians under Greek slavery" etc, of that type),not least because I was a half-Aegean from a sociobiological perspective and I grew in "Aegean" household. But starting to realize that "Macedonism" is based on lies, conclusions which I reached via extensive contact with foreign historic, anthropological, linguistic literature, I rejected my Pseudomacedonian identity, accepted the Serbian one, as an authentic centuries old identity in the northern strip of FYROM from where my patrilineal ancestors originate from. Others will follow me and this new movement as we have had our identities stolen from Skopje's government in order to facilitate their own needs and radical propaganda.
Janice


Thursday, October 23, 2008
It's time to turn back to your pre-Tito Communist name: VARDARSKA.
Macedonian

Other factors...
Friday, October 24, 2008
Pavlos:



Your whole answer tells me you're Greek, I don't have a doubt, and only confirms what I´ve been experiencing through the years.



I was about to answer your final question, but you know what? I'll let you do your homework. Here go some clues: "Aztlan" and "La reconquista". That will show you the TIGHT -yet underground- issue between my country and our northern neighbor.



Do you have relatives in Macedonia, do you have friends there, and visit? Do you go there and shop or spend any money there? I have relatives and friends in California, and visit them, and I go on shopping sometimes over there; that certaintly gives me a vision of the problem. Being one-sided is not good.



I haven't visited Greece nor Macedonia, but the core difference is that, so far, I've been able to make Macedonian friends: the Greek people I contacted have been so arrogant... So, what's the message? Funny, I haven't dropped my liking for Greek music, in spite of my Macedonian friend mock; and everytime I go to Tijuana I like going to Dimitris' to get some gyros.



But politics is another subject, and my point of view -maybe from afar and ignorant of the real situation, yes- tells me that there are no other factors, like you say, it's just one: Greece's government grandiose delusion.



And Cyprus: I have the point of view from both sides (Greek and Turkish), but my opinion is that both countries should leave it alone; but none is willing to and the Cypriot people is left in the middle of cross fire. Too sad.



I always go for the underdog, especially when it's defenseless and proven that its cause is fair.
Sam

Re: Disambiguation
Friday, October 24, 2008
Hi Cleitus! Now, yours is a very different answer. But what I was trying to imply is the use of the name.



Certaintly Macedonia could add "North" to their name (and, in a future, I guess that'd be the relief valve); but forcing a country to rename itself I think is coercing, thus violating its rights and freedom. I mean, there are a lot of CITIES in the United States called Mexico (the majority out of the historical land) so we're forcing them to drop the name?? Come on!



Now, as your fellow Pablo (*Castilianized) says: "Territorial claim and hostile behavior"??? I think Greece has more militar power, I don't believe the Macedonians are to engage in a WAR they'd probably lose. The same here and the Reconquista movement: Mexico's never having in a war with the States! It's like playing kicking with Samson, out of any considering!



So, why not let the Macedonians calling themselves so if they want? What's the damage? What's the threat? Instead, commerce treats and foreign affairs should be worked on to bring peace to such a troubled area for centuries.
Sam

@Sam what's the threat
Friday, October 24, 2008


The real problem is bringing up a generation of people believing that somehow another country has wronged them and stolen their land. It does not need many people to start a war, even a war they cannot win. A few lunatics is enough. Look at Lebanon and Hezbollah

Incidentally "why not let the Macedonians calling themselves so if they want". Because how would you then call greek Macedonians, who are no less Macedonians? Also, because the fyrom government has stupidly brought up issues of "macedonian minority" in greece. First, there is no such minority by election results. Second, if there were, a foreign country cannot speak for them the same way the government of Mexico does not speak for Mexican-Americans

Last, and most important, if you want to speak of such a minority,

you cannot call it Macedonian, because so is 1/4 of the population of Greece, including the prime minister. So anyone speaking on behalf of "macedonians" would be liable to a suit because the 2.5 million greek Macedonians only authorize their elected MPs to speak on their behalf, and no one else
David


Friday, October 24, 2008
David,



You say that a foreign country cannot speaak for another. Then why is Greece so obsessed and trying to speak for the Republic of Macedonia?
Rob

"Threat"
Friday, October 24, 2008


"So, why not let the Macedonians calling themselves so if they want? What's the damage? What's the threat?"

Because we want the world to know the truth, namely that there is an ancient land called Macedonia that lies outside the borders of "Macedonia" and has been an intrinsic part of our Hellenic heritage for the past 3,000 years or so. Would you willingly surrender your Mexican identity? If the answer is no, why would you ask us to do so?

As for Skopje not being a threat to Greece, you are perhaps understandably somewhat naïve vis-à-vis the intricacies of Balkan history and shifting power structures. Skopje *on its own* may not be a threat, but it has very powerful friends. It would be like Guatemala coveting part of Mexico. Of course you could easily defeat them in any military confrontation, but what if your northern neighbour stepped in to help the guatelmaltecos against you? Think about it for a moment, and please try to be less dismissive of our legitimate security concerns.

The "Macedonians" are conditioned from birth to believe that *everything* relating to Macedonia: its name, history and territory, since time immemorial, are rightfully theirs, and that we Greeks are some kind of interlopers or occupiers who will one day be expelled and Macedonia "liberated". Do not underestimate the power of irredentism; it worked for the Albanians in Kosovo against a much more powerful Serbian military machine.
Cleitus Melas

Post comment: Please read Terms and Conditions first
 



captcha image




 
 

A film documentary charting Lord Byron’s travels in Albania is to be shot, with actor Rupert Everett playing the poet-lead.


Montenegro witnessed an increase in both tourist numbers and tourist spending for 2008.


Within six months Bulgaria will adopt legislation to comply with European Union standards regarding the regulation and conduct of real estate business.



Enjoy the stunning views, pine-scented air and chuckling rivers in this pristine national park - just don’t get eaten by one of the bears.


Kafka-esque novel by Croatian writer Miroslav Krleza in which a successful lawyer inadvertently blurts out an honest thought at a dinner party.


Two Bosnians – a Muslim and a Serb – meet unexpectedly in the icy wastes of the northern United States. Thrown together, what unfolds are mind-games and memories of violence from the country they left behind.



Copyrights © 2007 Balkan Investigative Reporting Network.
Contact
Terms and Conditions of Use