Surfin' Safari: Comment on Acid2: Lopping Off the Sideburns

Comments: Acid2: Lopping Off the Sideburns

It seems like the mouth isn't too high, but that rows 9 & 10 are squeezed together. You'll notice that on the reference rendering, there are 4 rows in the middle of the face, but 3 on the Safari rendering.

It seems like this *is* a Safari bug to me because on my copy of the browser (v405), which does not have your fixes, it *does* show 4 rows on that part of the face (but horrible everything else), but your current rendering shows only 3.

Or have I missed it entirely? :-D

Posted by John Davidorff Pell at April 20, 2005 11:46 PM

I have been enjoying watching your progress as you work on this. Keep on updating!

Posted by Dustin Qasar Sacks at April 20, 2005 11:55 PM

A bug in the test! hahahaha.
Let's hope that the "correct" test does not set you back.
Great to follow this by the way.

Posted by Sean Wood at April 21, 2005 12:22 AM

Have we forgotten about the object tag? What about the eyes?! Or does this go along with the world domination plan of blinding us with your propoganda!

Posted by Jeff McGlynn at April 21, 2005 12:55 AM

No, it is a bug. Safari 1.3/2.0 was not handling the min-heighr declaration correctly, which is why it coincidentally hid this bug. Once I fixed the min-height problem, this bug in the test was exposed.

Basically the test has the smile clearing a float with a bottom margin of negative 1em. This means that the bottom outer edge of the float is actually 1em up from the bottom of the rendered float content. Thus the smile is supposed to overlap the float by 1em. This is clearly not the intent of the test.

The test put a 1em margin on a block inside the smile assuming that this margin would not collapse into the float clearance. However the spec is quite clear that this collapsing is required, especially given that this block's margin was used in the theoretical collapse computation that led to the understanding that the clear was necessary in the first place.

Posted by hyatt at April 21, 2005 12:55 AM

And here I'll just be happy to get some docs to make a rich text editor toolbar work in Safari. ;-) Thanks!

Posted by btn at April 21, 2005 1:01 AM

Here is the problem with the test or with the rendering.

http://zoplionah.com/acid2.gif

Posted by Jeff McGlynn at April 21, 2005 1:13 AM

Well if anyone was going to find a problem in the test...

Matt

Posted by Matt at April 21, 2005 6:20 AM

I know people have been lauding you from the start, but I just have to add my acclaim to the mix. Your work has been fantastic, and it's only fitting that you should be the one to discover a bug in the test. Everyone I've told about your work on the Acid2 test has been astounded by your responsiveness. Keep up the great work!

P.S. — What about the eyes? Can you not continue to work on rows 4–5 regardless of the bug in row 10?

Posted by Morgan Doocy at April 21, 2005 8:01 AM

Would it be a lot of work to post the reference image along side the latest iteration?

Anyway, this has been fascinating and I appreciate you working on this and keeping us all up to date.

Posted by John S. at April 21, 2005 9:57 AM

I've been reading along with fascination as you discuss the internal bits of Safari in your blog, but have never had reason to post until just now. I'm slightly off-topic, but risking a post anyway.

So, if you're taking a break from Acid2, but are still in a debugging mood and want a challenge... Here goes:

This URL (http://www.lovett.org/~omathews/43.html) renders perfectly in Mozilla and Firefox, and heck, even IE 5.2 does passably! Why does Safari (1.3) fail to render it properly? I suspected errors in my own code (the table was generated by a perl script) for some time before coming to the conclusion that Safari has some kind of bug in its table rendering code.

Email me if you'd like more details (including the script and lots more tables).

Posted by Owen Mathews at April 21, 2005 11:25 AM

Dave (Mr. Hyatt?),

Great work. A few of us are really curious, though, about how to implement the contentEditable features added in the most recent release. None of the freely available toolbars appear to work and even tests of my own with a simple toolbar (one button) have been unable to get it to work. Specifically, when clicking the button, the selected text loses focus and becomes deselected. I suspect this is an expected behavior (seems like a consistent default behavior), but I'm not sure how to work around it. Do we need to turn on event capture for the elements involved to tell Safari how to respond to the click event?

Please, some pointers. It's really nice to see this single feature will make Safari the best browser around (for me, at least).

Sincerely,

Ted Stresen-Reuter

Posted by Ted Stresen-Reuter at April 21, 2005 12:38 PM

Owen,

In response to your table rendering incorrectly, are you certain that your markup is being generated properly?

The validator says it's not.
(http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri;=http%3A//www.lovett.org/%7Eomathews/43.html)

I just thought that needed to be pointed out before we encourage Dave to go hunting.

Posted by Cameron Walters at April 21, 2005 3:00 PM

In addition to Cameron's comment, fixing the errors highlighted by validator will most likely fix your rendering problems. Hint: head requires a title, and tr requires a td - and a doctype wouldn't hurt either :)

Posted by Ahanu at April 21, 2005 4:45 PM

Safari 1.3 introduces some weird issues with a:hover:before that weren't present in Safari 1.2. I've set up a test page here

WARNING: playing with this crashes Safari 1.3 on my system (no 3rd party add-ons).

http://hipsterfag.com/safari.html

Basically, I'm placing an animated gif before each link when you hover over it. Some images stay there even after the cursor leaves, some crash the browser. I would have noted this in the last post, but I'm too lazy to code a trackback system for my blog ;)

Awesome work on the Acid fixes and adherence to standards in general - you're my hero ;)

Any chance SVG will show up some time soon? I noticed this guy has a WebCore based SVG viewer up and running.

Posted by ned at April 21, 2005 9:13 PM

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but recently I've noticed some display bugs in Safari 1.3 (10.3.9). Here's a link with the explanations:

http://www.macuser.ro/safari_bug/

I know that website's HTML code isn't as clean as it should be, mostly due to the bloated phpBB code. Anyway, that bug didn't exist in Safari versions prior to 1.3. Any thoughts?

Posted by Tudor Vedeanu at April 22, 2005 12:07 AM

Cameron, thanks for the pointer...

Dave, sorry for the premature post...

I explored the problem and have gotten my code to validate. But here's what sucks: I had to kludge in a big way to get valid HTML. This does not seem to be a Safari issue (dave.vindicationCount++) but an issue with the W3 specs. Namely, that each TR element must contain at least one TD. Too bad for me if I want to have a simple table like

_______________________________
|                                 |______________|
|                                 |                                 |
|______________|                                 |
|______________|______________|

(Ignore the ragged right edge and envision four rows and two columns.)

I challenge anyone to do this without resorting to one of my kludgey solutions: the one that validated, which was to add a (nearly) invisible extra column so that each row had at least one TD element; or the nonvalidating one, which was to keep the empty TRs and explicitly set the pixel height of each spanning TD.

And now that I'm completely off-topic, can anybody tell me where best place would be to take this question?

Posted by Owen Mathews at April 22, 2005 9:02 AM

Owen: do you know that there are attributtes like "colspan" and "rowspan"?

Posted by movieman at April 22, 2005 1:07 PM

I think you want to read up on the colspan and rowspan attributes: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html

Posted by Huck at April 22, 2005 1:11 PM

He is doing rowspanning, but he's trying to make the spanned row two high. It is tricky.

Posted by Nate at April 22, 2005 3:29 PM

Owen,
Try webmasterworld.com, the people there have solved XHTML/CSS bugs I've worked on for days in a matter of hours. I suggest you read the terms of posting before your first post, they get very agitated if you break the rules.

Matt

Posted by Matt at April 22, 2005 4:01 PM

But what's the point of working on that at all? Tables are for tabular data; CSS is for layout. Why create the headache when there's already a solution?

Posted by John at April 22, 2005 4:14 PM

Has everyone seen the bottom of this page?

http://webstandards.org/act/acid2/guide.html

Version 1.1 of the test :)

Posted by Ken at April 22, 2005 6:36 PM

Nice. I cannot wait to see the rendering with new v1.1 of the test! Maybe by the time we get another post, he'll have some of the object code fixed.

Keep up the great work Hyatt!

Posted by Kyle Rove at April 22, 2005 7:35 PM

You can render both with Safari now (won't render properly) but you can tell where the change was made because there's a space above the chin in the 1.1 version.

Posted by Ken at April 22, 2005 10:30 PM

"But what's the point of working on that at all? Tables are for tabular data; CSS is for layout. Why create the headache when there's already a solution?"

Webmaster world forums will tackle pretty much any problem, if you re-read my post you will see I wrote that they had solved XHTML/CSS problems for ME.

Otherwise it would be called xhtmlcssworld.com.

Matt

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I am seeing in Safari 2.0 that if you do not explicitly set the colSpan and rowSpan properties on a table cell, then retrieving from javascript results in a value of zero, rather than the w3c default value of one.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but this is what I am seeing.

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