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Legal fees mount in Tory case against Elections Canada

The Canadian Press

Possible $500,000 tab a sensitive issue in the 18-month-old lawsuit launched by the Conservatives over controversial ad scheme during 2006 election ...Read the full article

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  1. Ryan Ginger from Canada writes: I wish the conservatives would be just a little more transparent. I don't trust Harper. Conservatives need a new party leader. Soon.
  2. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Elections Canada lawyer Barbara McIsaac gave notice last week that she intends to introduce an Elections Canada affidavit and background information that convinced a judge to authorize a warrant to search Tory headquarters last April.

    The affidavit, which includes allegations the Conservatives shifted ad expenses to election candidates to skirt the party's $18.3-million campaign expense limit for the 2006 election, has so far not been entered as evidence in the case.
  3. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: RCMP targeted alleged Tory spending scheme
    Mr. Finley and Mr. Lepsoe fled from the Sheraton down a back set of stairs
    But it does confirm that the RCMP search was not related to a lawsuit launched against Elections Canada by the Conservatives after the Elections Commissioner had begun an investigation of the scheme.
  4. R M from Saskatchewan, Canada writes:

    I am outraged with the condut of the Conservative Party of Canada over their conduct in this election expense dispute. Unfortunately, the taxpayers are funding both sides of this dispute - not only are the Conservatives expecting the $1.95 per vote collected, but they are also obtaining the tax credits for contributions AND expecting the reimbursement of election expenses, which Elections Canada disputes are not warranted.

    While the Conservatives would like to cut off the funding to the opposition parties, one must look at the abuse of the system that is being investigated by Elections Canada, and for good reason.

    It would be interesting to consider how much of the huge amount of the Conservative fundraising has been subsidized by taxpayers' money.

    Come clean, Mr Harper, how much is it?

    .
  5. Daniel Cunningham from Victoria, BC, writes: As usual the Theo-Cons are spending taxpayer money like drunken sailors @ Mardi-Gras. Oh wait, every day is Mardi-Gras for the Theo-Cons since they control the purse strings. Bunch of hypocrites.
  6. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Its about the $1,100,000.00 overspending by the Harper Conservatives, its against the law, Harper,quit trying to cover-up everything your incompetent, crooked Gov't does. Stop the LIE, LIE LIE ....Spin Spin Spin Sweep Sweep Sweep

    Why is Finley in the middle of every Consevative illegal Scandal???

    Next on the RCMP list???

    CCB Scandal, its got Finley's prints all over it.
  7. siren call from Canada writes: 18 months in court for the "governing" Harperites to sue a vital institution (Elections Canada) in our democracy.

    I guess it's dragging on because, darn it, it still isn't a good time for the results to be released to the public.

    Ditto the, alleged Cadman bribe, the Keen lawsuit for wrongful dismissal on the nuclear watchdog file and other cases.

    Stand up Steve looks pretty bad on the legal file.
  8. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Stephen is the king of sleeaze.
  9. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: CRIMINAL CODE ,PART X FRAUDULENT TRANSACTIONS RELATING TO CONTRACTS AND TRADE , FRAUD

    380. 1- Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretense within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service,

    (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding fourteen years, where the subject-matter of the offence is a testamentary instrument or the value of the subject-matter of the offence exceeds five thousand dollars
    -------------------------

    If found guilty"Conservative Party Fund Canada"of these 3 charges in a
    court of law, the court then has the power to de-register the Conservative Party and liquidate all its assets, and put its riding associations out of business.

    No wonder Stephen Harper is fighting hard to shut down committees looking into Conservative misdeeds, committing fraud and making false statements with-holding information and not cooperating with EC, in general Stephen Harper is doing everything that would be done in a undemocratic country. If what Harper is doing were happening in any other nation, we would call it a dictatorship or a banana republic.

    The Liberals stole money............

    Harper stole an election...........

    Whats more important???Democracy or money??

    Stop the cover-up Harper, come clean.
  10. Mikey Dee from Canada writes: and this is just one way how Harper & Co. is putting Canada into a deficit position. Harper has got to go....he can't close the deal anyway
  11. Paul Dieter from Canada writes:
    I'm sure all the CONs are happy Harper is spending all the Party's money to delay prosecution for his criminal activities...I guess when Steve starts serving up the cool-aid, the CONs will obediantly line up and take a deep drink with no complaints...CONs are sheep led by thieves.
  12. Michael Black from Canada writes: What a ridiculous waste this is. Harper thinks everyone is out to get him for no reason. The man's ego knows no bounds.
  13. Aubrey Sharpe from Canada writes: ... and Lloyd Robertson and Robert Fife somehow made it through their fireside chat with Harper without laughing in his face, or blushing as they sucked up one evasive "answer" after another. I missed the part where they bowed - did CTV cut it out ?
  14. Coalition Disenfranchises Western Canada from Canada writes: I don't trust Elections Canada. It is discriminatory against the Conservative Party. Pursue this matter regardless of the cost; members will gladly pay.

    Anytime a government agency is sued the taxpayers pay for it. That is the way is should be!!
  15. canadian muttenhead from Vancouver, Canada writes: Are their any sober editors at the G&M; tonight? This article is a confused piece of trash. I do not think there is a lucid sentence in the whole article.

    Please send this supposed professional writer back to school so that he can articulate his reportage in a manner where-bye a reader can actually decipher a structured argument.

    Unfortunately, this article is yet another piece of partisan trash pretending to be honest comment.
  16. Gerald Fox from 50 km south of Reform country in Ontario,, Canada writes: "The Canadian Taxpayers Federation says since taxpayers are footing the bill, an earlier settlement would have been preferable."

    You don't imagine a settlement would include a confidentiality clause, do you? Far better than a settlement would be a full and open hearing so that Canadians can hear/see for themselves how the Conservatives do their dirty business.
  17. Peasinour Thyme from Edmonton, Canada writes: It irks me to no end that Harper is sticking his filthy hand in my pocket and robbing me. What adds insult to injury is that he used the money he is stealing from me to finance a bunch of hate ads against Liberals that contained nothing but the usual Harper lies.

    Even in the runup to the last stupid unnecessary election - oh, thanks by the way, Harper for squandering another $300M! - in the runup I was bombarded with Conservative propaganda that was clearly related to the election but yet was paid for by all taxpayers, regardless of how much we despised Harper.

    And after robbing me blind how many times over, just a few weeks ago Harper wanted to shut my party out of getting any of my tax money, just so he could continue to rob me of it all.

    He is a crook and a liar. Conservatives have no shame, how can you support this man and his methods? Do you really hate Canada that much that you would destroy it and undermine its values?

    Don't even respond with your anti-Liberal vitriol as if anything in the past excuses Harper's present conduct that you all so obviously condone. Say what you will, Liberals were never so bad as you would have us believe, or such a threat to Canada as Harper is.

    We had a surplus, and a solid economy. Now everything is a shambles and Harper is too busy defending his treachery, lies and theft of my money to put an economic plan together (as if he could)!
  18. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Relax, the chess grandmaster knows what he is doing. Relax.
  19. diane marie from Canada writes: All those "little" CPC-supporters out there in the hinterland writing cheques for the CPC collection plate. Are they, anytime soon, going to wonder about the church they are supporting? The disconnect between what they think they are providing the foundation for, and the structure that is actually being built is - well - monumental in scale.
  20. Is there anybody out there from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: Taxpayers pick up tab for Tory squabbling, corruption/
  21. Finn M. from Canada writes: The Canadian Tax Payers Association seems to be taking a very restrained line here. Could this be out of deference to spiritual soul-mate Stephen Harper?
  22. peter jones from Canada writes: These guys (CPC) would argue with a fly crawling up the wall...

    They just can never admit they were wrong and apologise..Not once..and it is ALL Toronto's fault..or Quebec's or the CAW's or Dion's or someone

    Tony Soprano has nothing on them
  23. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: Now for those who are saying "so what if they went over the limit with their money". It is not as simple as that.

    If what Elections Canada claims they have done is true, by shifting these national expenses to individual campaigns, they not only utilized the unused expense room of these local campaigns (remember a lot of campaigns don't spend their limit), those campaigns that participated that got over 10% could very well have been paid a REBATE from Elections Canada based on these false expenses.

    If memory serves me correctly and the amount rebated for qualifying expenses is 60%, I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

    If this is all true then Conservative campaigns, some of whom donated back to the national organization, would have received over $600,000 through fraudulant means. Money that would have been available for things like future campaigns and purchase prewrit attack ads.

    If this was JUST about being over the limit I doubt the Conservatives would be fighting so strongly.
  24. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: would have recieved 600K... should read may have
  25. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ....another classic example of the neocon arrogance towards the rules of fairplay and their wanton disregard in squandering the money of others.....
  26. Calvin harrington from Canada writes: The "Canadian Tax Payers' Federation" is an arm of the Conserative Party of Canada. Nolton Nash of CTV along with Jane Tabler are very closely tied to Harper, I wonder if Nash will be named to the senate? His star needs to be removed from the side walk fo Famous Canadians Nash is a Conservatvie lacky.
  27. M. Mark from Victoria, Canada writes: Let the Conservatives keep on charging the taxpayer for the legal bills. They are "entitled to their entitlements". :-)
  28. David J Parker from Edmontarsands, Canada writes: When it comes to manipulating and raising funds the Tories can't be beat. question is can they continue to get away with it?
    It took two elections to show the American people what a disaster G. W. Bush was...... Harper has now had his two also.
    It seems these ideologues have to be given enough rope to hang them selves and unfortuately that takes time.
    The biggest problem for we Canadians is an electoral system that gives power to a party with only 37% of the vote. We desperately need Proportional Representation.
  29. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: .....this brings to mind the silly suit Stevie has against Stephie....same type of pig-headed persistence into failure.....
  30. john may from writes: Using the logic of the CP reporter it would be fair to say that almost all legal disputes about money are funded by the taxpayer because in the end said costs are deductible as an expense.
    In other words there is little difference between this case and most other disputes.
  31. Grampa Canuck from Belleville, ON, Canada writes:

    Sue, sue, sue..................
    .
    .
  32. scott thomas from Canada writes: The CONS will pay any amount to try to prove that they're not crooks. Lesson learned from Mulroney.
  33. Pierre-Yves P from Canada writes:
    Like any bureaucracy, Elections Canada is a baby: an alimentary tube with a big appetite for power at one end, and no sense of responsibility at the other. It is not the Conservatives fault if this absence of accountability is causing huge legal costs for Canadian taxpayers, as a settlement could have been reached a long time ago. Maybe next time Mr. Mayrand`s decisions will be scrutinized more thoroughly.
  34. Bill Harrison from Canada writes: Trust the good old Canadaian Press to drag out this story and the G&M; to print it just before the Senate appointments, which will give more red meat to the Harper-haters. It is too bad that Canadian Press and many of those who have written here believe in mob justice rather than waiting for the case to be decided. If the Tories are at fault, they will undoubtedly pay. If Elections Canada is wrong, then the role of a publicly funded government organization must be reviewed, and changes to its modus operandi made.
  35. The Bubble from Canada writes: I've noticed how the cons on here have shifted from being defensive to being smug and calmly telling everyone to wait for the system, the legal system must run it's course while the government deliberately stalls justice and tries to bankrupt the other side. This was the tactic of the Catholic Church in the Cornwall buggerytrials. If you simply look at this from the point of view that Harper hates Canada more than I do, it all makes sense. He will never change, he will smash democracy itself to prove himself right.
  36. TIME FOR CONS TO WISE UP from MY M.P. COUNTS JUST AS MUCH AS YOURS, Canada writes: The problem is, maybe every Con MP in Ottawa was in on the fraudulent in-and-out transactions that the party used to evade election laws. It will be hard to run a government with the majority in jail.

    .
  37. TIME FOR CONS TO WISE UP from MY M.P. COUNTS JUST AS MUCH AS YOURS, Canada writes: Bill Harrison from Canada writes: Trust the good old Canadaian Press to drag out this story and the G&M; to print it just before the Senate appointments, which will give more red meat to the Harper-haters.

    =======================

    LOL!

    You support the senate appointments and evading election laws, I guess.
  38. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: Let's hope the courts sort this out once and for all and not just for the Tories....they are likely not the only ones with dirt on their hands if it proves true!
  39. siren call from Canada writes: Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ....another classic example of the neocon arrogance towards the rules of fairplay and their wanton disregard in squandering the money of others.....
    ...............................

    No, no, no.

    Necons are for law and order.

    Well really, revenge and punishment.

    It just sounds better, more sheriff like, to say law 'n order.
  40. Calvin harrington from Canada writes: Imust say I was wrong and I am sorry I got names mixed up I meant lloyd Robertson and not the Great NoltonNash, very sorry for that terrible error. Lloyd and Duffy up for Senate Seats,they deserve them being loyal Harper supporters along with members of the RCMP
  41. Mr. Achinghead from Canada writes: Hard to beleive that the Conservative Party would be less than forthcoming in this manner, especially given the way they have crusaded to be transparent and fiscally responsible.

    I guess as long as it's the Conservative Party wasting taxpayers money its okay. Each party needs their turn at the trough. Besides, the Conservatives have shown time and time again that they would rather litigate than negotiate.
  42. Yours Truly from Winnipeg, Canada writes: The Canadian media have a responsibility to pursue this matter vigorously and to report the facts to the Canadian taxpayers. This matter also needs to be resolved one way or another before the next election so that the Canadian voting public can make their appropriate decision. There has been enough sleeze implicating all of the parties. As Obama has said so eloquently, it's time for CHANGE. Personally I am fed up with the shouting, applauding and grandstanding that goes on in our parliament as it just masks the incompetancey of all of the political parties. I hope that Iggy's presence will somehow bring some decorum into the House of Commons.
  43. David Blott from Dartmouth, NS, Canada writes:

    Bill Harrison from Canada writes:

    "If the Tories are at fault, they will undoubtedly pay. If Elections Canada is wrong, then the role of a publicly funded government organization must be reviewed, and changes to its modus operandi made."

    Given the fact that the Chief Electoral Officer Marc Mayrand was appointed by Harper, the "Tories" clearly are at fault. They appointed an honest man who won't be bullied by a party leader unwilling to accept responsibility for any of his actions.
  44. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: The Bubble, if you hate Canada as much as you profess you do; Why not leave? There is no reason you couldn't be welcoming the New Year in the country of your choice, if they will have you. Since it is quite possible you are a dual citizen, you should have no problem returning to the place you wish to be. I am sure you would not be missed here in Canada, the opposite is more likely to be true. Au revoir!
  45. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Given its court-going nature, CPC must surely be in favour of the rule of law. Only problem is, it doesn't want to see any rulings actually get made any time soon, unless they are made to halt certain proceedings (e.g., Cadman case) during elections.
  46. The Bubble from Canada writes: I'm not going anywhere. I love getting you pieces of garbageangry at me. Redneck irresponsible Albertan dirty oil people.
  47. The Bubble from Canada writes: and besides, Harper hates Canada more than I do.
  48. The Bubble from Canada writes: I wouldn't have sent the troops into harms way like Harper and the little boy Mckay have done.
  49. Wayne H from Canada writes: Harper&Company; must go................
  50. Jesse Winger from Calgary Loves a Coalition, Canada writes: More proof the Harper Conservatives are worst weasels to ever rise to govern our country. What a disgrace.

    And I wonder how that defamation lawsuit is going by Mean Steve against the Libs on the Cadman file?
  51. G. Veneta from Canada writes: The Conservatives have no shame when it comes to wasting tax payer money. The facts tell us Conservatives are abysmal managers of the economy and public purse.

    How is it that the myth of fiscal conservatism still exists in people's deluded minds????????????? It's an outright lie as the facts speak for themselves.

    Why do people support this utter crap? Stupidity or just ignorance?
  52. Tor Hill from Canada writes: Je m'accuse.
  53. The Bubble from Canada writes: and I wouldn't try to buy a dying mans vote like that, and I wouldn't try to shut everyone around me up because I was a social retard and I believe in evolution and I believe in democracy come what may, I wouldn't be so blind as to think I could do it all myself and if everyone didn't like it I would punish them all and spend all their money trying to prove I wasn't guilty of fraud and breaking election laws and promises I made about the senate. In short, I would like this country a whole lot more if Harper simply realized he alone is destroying this country, not everyone else. Unschooled, uneducated delusional bible thumpers.
  54. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Tor Hill, the Cadman case was useful only for the smear value that the Liberal allegations had. It may have influenced a handful of voters in the riding. The libbies need new allegations that are more plausible, either that or come up with policies and candidates that attract voters.
  55. diane marie from Canada writes: Pierre-Yves P:-- Elections Canada is the bulwark between the people, hopeful about democracy, and those who would bend the rules to their own advantage. I know, I know, it's a difficult concept but do try to understand it, even if you find yourself unable to respect it (for partisan reasons).
  56. The Centrist from Canada writes: More taxpayer dollars WASTED! $30 billion for DIPPER BAILOUTS. $4 billion for DIPPER bailouts to 3 companies which can't get their act together. The Conservative government has turned into DIPPERS.

    Now I learn millions are being wasted on this inane exercise?

    A betrayal of campaign promises. A betrayal of conservative principles.

    Where is the reform party???
  57. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G. Venette, could it be that many voters are more intelligent than you are and don't buy Lieberal lies?
  58. P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: Harper is against open and transparent government. This is only a small fraction of the lies he has told or the things he continues to try and hide.
  59. Tor Hill from Canada writes: So in a sense, it is the people of Canada against CPC. I like that!
  60. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: diane marie, that is all the more reason why Elections Canada should not only be non-partisan, but be perceived to be non-partisan.
  61. Kat Wilson from Canada writes: Why are public funds paying for this?
  62. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Fuzzy bear....you're an imbecile and you know it. Your master is corrupt so go and rub his feet like a loyal minion. CAD.

    Are all conservatives corrupt? Is it in their DNA. Are they all nasty and mean and bitter and fat? They represent the ultimate in under achievement --non athletic, can't keep their fat digits out of the cookie jar then blame the empty jar on their little sister.

    You people are lying thieves. Ignorance is certainly bliss.

    Now run along and wait for Santa Claus. Don't eat his cookies.
  63. C R from Canada writes: I've never seen so much sleaze come from a political party of this country as this brand of Conservatism under Harper. The guy heading Elections Canada is a guy Harper appointed. This isn't about bias. This is about the issue of Harper's party breaking our election laws. This is some really serious stuff. It throws into question the whole legitimacy of our democracy.
  64. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Tor Hill from Canada writes: So in a sense, it is the people of Canada against CPC. I like that! " ** Tor Hill; You may like or even love it, likely because it isn't true. Nothing like a good lie to turn a Lieberal on!. *
  65. 1 i from northish gta, Canada writes: As said above at 11:23,

    "Using the logic of the CP reporter it would be fair to say that almost all legal disputes about money are funded by the taxpayer because in the end said costs are deductible as an expense.
    In other words there is little difference between this case and most other disputes. "

    Um, no, this is not the case. In 'other' disputes costs are potentially an allowable deduction, so they would reduce the income exposed to taxation. In this case, Elections Canada expenses will be wholly paid by taxpayers (unless the court finds the other party liable for costs ...) while the Conservative Party pays its costs out of income ... that income, of course, comes from taxpayers via the 1.95 per vote subsidy, and the 75 percent tax credit (please note the difference between a tax credit and a tax deduction) on political party donations. Assuming an equal disposition of costs across the parties involved, and an equal breakout of funding sources for the Conservative Party, that would put taxpayers footing the bill for 87.5 percent of the total cost of this dispute. However, I guess it is possible that Stikeman Elliot is providing services pro bono; its like that old saw about lawyers and sharks, professional courtesy and all that.
  66. The Bubble from Canada writes: this court case needs to finalize, the case against Mulroney needs to be finalized, the Cadman affair needs to be finalized, Canadians need to see Harper for what he really is, a disgrace.
  67. G. Veneta from Canada writes: I guess the silver lining is that the sleaze is oozing from every part of their party and government. The sleaze and incompetence just piles up. Corrupt and hateful. Such creeps.

    Let them hang themselves on their own ignorance. Harper hates Canada and is out to destroy it and in the meantime makes a mockery of all of our institutions and democracy. Cruel and mad.

    He's already destroyed the fiscal position of Canada. YUP, that's conservative fiscal insanity for you.

    Time Canadians launched a class action lawsuit against Harper and the Cons. They're an affront to all that is good about Canada. He and they mock our country. For shame only they have none.
  68. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G. Veneta; There is no match for thieves like the Liberals. The $100 Million the Lieberals stole with the Adscam theft is a record that will probably never be matched in Canada. It took master thieves and schemers to come up with the plan and the coverup. No paper trail makes it a long process, but the investigation is still proceeding. There will likely be some well known names mentioned in the Adscam investigation in the next year.
  69. Fake Name from Canada writes: "Peasinour Thyme from Edmonton, Canada writes: It irks me to no end that Harper is sticking his filthy hand in my pocket and robbing me. What adds insult to injury is that he used the money he is stealing from me to finance a bunch of hate ads against Liberals that contained nothing but the usual Harper lies."

    And that shoe's never been on the other foot. Oh, no, not at all.

    They're all dirty, on both sides.
  70. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Fuzzy Bare you lie as always. No elected member of the Liberal party was ever found to be guilty and 100 million is another con talking point lie. It was about ad agencies in Quebec. How much do you think ad agencies across the land are making on Harper paid by the taxpayer?

    Now run along and remember not to steal Santa's cookies - or his reindeer's carrots. I know it's a reflex for you con types.
  71. diane marie from Canada writes: Fuzzy Bare:-- Only people who like to blame everybody but themselves for their lack of political success spend their time fingering Elections Canada for partisanship. For once in your pathetic lives, consider that it might just be what you offer and represent, and the person you've chosen to do the offering and representing, that is your problem.
  72. siren call from Canada writes: TIME FOR CONS TO WISE UP from MY M.P. COUNTS JUST AS MUCH AS YOURS, Canada writes: The problem is, maybe every Con MP in Ottawa was in on the fraudulent in-and-out transactions that the party used to evade election laws. It will be hard to run a government with the majority in jail.
    ..................................

    Are you kidding us?

    Nah, even if every elected member, except Harper were in jail, the country would be run as it has been for the last 3 years.

    By Harper and an unelected, unseen and unknown team of weirdos in the Prime Minister's Office.
  73. Fake Name from Canada writes: "Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: diane marie, that is all the more reason why Elections Canada should not only be non-partisan, but be perceived to be non-partisan."

    So they should look the other way when conservatives submit fabricated advertising invoices (according to the deposition from the ad firm president) to claim reimbursement, so they avoid the appearance of bias when they track down wrongdoing?

    Nuh-uh; the liberals had to face investigation of their dirty dealings in adscam, so the conservatives must and shall face their share of scrutiny over this.
  74. Just A Guy from Canada writes: It was a "scheme" was it? Much like the public funds in Liberal friendly firms "scheme"?

    For the most imbecile and uneducated comment of the day, my vote goes to G. Veneta from Canada for this piece of work: "Are all conservatives corrupt? Is it in their DNA"

    History has shown otherwise dingbat.
  75. siren call from Canada writes: Tor Hill from Canada writes: So in a sense, it is the people of Canada against CPC. I like that!
    .............................

    Try googling, Harper v. Canada.

    Yes, there really is a court case, supreme no less, with that moniker.
  76. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Siren Call,

    Agreed, frightening but true and likely some long distance. Time to take Canada back from all of those that are out to destroy it.

    Time for Canadians to wake the h. up and pay attention.
  77. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Of course we know this article will be no where to be found on Monday. Slip it in Sunday night then it disappears and it's no wonder Canadians don't smell the full stench of this crap going on.
  78. The Bubble from Canada writes: wow it's true, Harper is suing Canada, truth is stranger than fiction.
  79. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G. Veneta, at this point in in time, you are correct that no elected member of the LPC has been charged or convicted of being involved with the Adscam stealing. Will you be able to repeat that a year from now?
  80. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Just a Guy,

    You're kidding aren't you?! Let's see we have Mulroney and the 'birds' n'brown stuffed envelopes of 300k cash then look south at the likes of Nixon, Bush et. all. Just name an honest con please. It's not in their DNA. It's just full of hate and ugliness to their fellow man.

    'What I stated was, that the Conservative Party was, by the law of its constitution, necessarily the stupidest party. Now, I do not retract that assertion; but I did not mean to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.'

    (Public and Parliamentary Speeches, 31 May 1866, pp. 85-86.) John Stuart Mills.
  81. The Bubble from Canada writes: So in reading Harper v Canada, it looks like the Harper team is not arguing their innocence, they are arguing that the provisions in the Charter regarding election expenses is unfounded and vague. They really are doing their best to reduce our democracy to a fascist state.
  82. siren call from Canada writes: The difference between Lib Adscam and this alleged in and out --when the Libs were found guilty, they didn't turn around and call the court system illegitimate. Harper has and will again.

    "The historian Garry Wills once observed that Richard Nixon wanted to be president not to govern the nation but to undermine the government. The Nixon presidency was one long counterinsurgency campaign against key American institutions like the courts, the FBI, the state department and the CIA. Harper has the same basic approach to politics: attack not just political foes but the very institutions that make governing possible. The state for Nixon and Harper exists not as an instrument of policy making but as an alien force to be subdued.

    Canadians have never had a prime minister who has literally made his career attacking and undermining the legitimacy of Canadian institutions.

    Until now."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/24/thecanadiannixon
  83. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Fuzzy,
    Can we just move on from Adscam. It was 15 years ago. Like the NEP was over 30 years ago. Why is it you people can't move on to today. There are new Liberals and they had nothing to do with the issue. Ignatieff was not there and he is leader.

    Can we please for a minute just look at the here and now and move forward. I am sick of any party stealing and taking advantage of Canadians. I am sick of all of it.

    Both parties have had their share of lying scum just as every business has them and churches. Why should politics be any different? Just look at the most recent financial fraud that has destroyed the world's financial system. Same type of corrupt people.

    They are everywhere. At least the Liberals have learned a hard lesson while the cons just flagrantly throw the stuff in our face. Election fraud is fraud of the taxpayer purse and now we are on the hook for another million in legal fees. Then there's the Cadman lawsuit and on and on.

    How much should Canadians be forced to pay for Conservative law suits?

    Is that fiscal responsibility with your tax dollar? Want to see Con corruption just come to Alberta where the tax payer has no idea what's in the books for 30 plus years. It's one big old boys feast and suddenly we're broke cuz oil is under 40$ and you can't blame Trudeau for that one.
  84. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Fake Name, If the election expenses can be claimed as riding expenses, Election Canada made the wrong call. If the Court agrees with Election Canada, then it is up to the appeals courts. All the way to the top court is possible. That is the way legal matters are settled in Canad, whether they involve people or political parties. Everyone has the right to have their day in Court.
  85. L M87 from Calgary, Canada writes: Anyone have an update on Harper's lawsuit against the Liberal Party? I heard Harper's team was spinning its wheels on that one too. I think Harper has forgotten that this is the Canadian Court System, not the American. Sensationalism and being the loudest does not carry weight in this Canadian institution.
  86. siren call from Canada writes: G. Veneta from Canada writes: Is that fiscal responsibility with your tax dollar? Want to see Con corruption just come to Alberta where the tax payer has no idea what's in the books for 30 plus years. It's one big old boys feast and suddenly we're broke cuz oil is under 40$ and you can't blame Trudeau for that one.
    ............................

    Well, I'm taking a wait and see approach.

    Let's hook up on these boards when Stelmach and Harper join hands to sing the "blame Trudeau" song.

    They did it most recently with Dion and the Green Shift so I'm sure they're in fighting form.
  87. The Bubble from Canada writes: When John Stewart Mill was a teenager, he was already an unbelievable genius and highly schooled in legal writings of Bentham. One day when he was walking to work he observed a little blue wrapped bundle in the park he walked through on a daily basis and discovered someone left a baby there. He walked a little further after dealing with this and observed two men hanging by their necks at the gaol. This went a long way to forming his extremely enlightened writings about legal procedure and also his desire to bring women into the mainstream of public thought. He was busted for handing out tracts describing birth control methods and sent to jail for a couple of days until it was revealed who he was and who his benefactors were: Jeremy Bentham and his own father James Mill who basically ran India from Britain then. It's good to revisit those days to see why Social Democracy and the legal framework for it were originally developed. Harper and his goons want to go back to a time when it was brutish, short and nasty.
  88. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G. Veneta, Adscam is not over, as much as Liberals pretend and hope. The investigation is still active, now we may find out if elected politicians were involved. Adscam is a far more serious matter than the interpretation of Election financing regulations.

    The Cadman court case was caused by the stupidity of senior Liberals who made allegations, not protected by the Parliamentary custom of allowing any accusation to be made, without recourse to libel laws.
  89. tom johnson from mississauga, Canada writes: harper is such a waste of time: the MOST selfish PM I remember ever.
  90. G. Veneta from Canada writes: Fuzzy Bare,

    You do inhabit a parallel universe. Why do Cons spin lies and more and more lies. Never accountable for anything. Support the tribe's fraud and lies cuz it's your tribe. Pathetic. Like a religion this con support is. Never want to open their eyes to the ugly truth. Keep carrying your master's water. Sad actually.

    Guess, it takes guts and courage to admit mistakes and be accountable but cons are just plain gutless. Girlymen the lot of them. Cowards.
  91. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: tom johnson from mississauga, Canada writes: harper is such a waste of time: the MOST selfish PM I remember ever.

    tommie, you seem to have a memory problem. do you recall what you had for lunch today?
  92. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G. Veneta, it takes courage to admit your mistakes. If only some Liberals could find the courage to confess to their crimes and come clean on Adscam, we could put Adscam to rest. Until then, Adscam is a black cloud over the head of many Liberals.
  93. The Bubble from Canada writes: "the interpretation of election financing LAWS'
    It's implicit in this statement that Harper broke the law and is now trying to change the law, the arrogance is unbelievable, if elections Canada loses this fight we are in for it. This is really important for the next election to keep Harpers oil backers from giving as much money as they want.
  94. The Bubble from Canada writes: Harper is a criminal, he says so in his court action but he's a criminal who is trying to get the law changed so he won't be a criminal, and he's using taxpayer money to do this.
  95. John Alberta from Calgary, Canada writes: I'm really blown away by the 'depth' of knowledge and script like mutterings many of the posters have, Eg., "harper is such a waste of time: the MOST selfish PM I remember ever."

    Almost like they have talking points emailed to them every day, before the Grope and Flail slag is written.

    You Liberals don't do that, do you?
  96. The Bubble from Canada writes: I have no talking points, I make it all up, nice try but only the cons email out their talking points, everyone else just knows what Harper is and if the same themes of fascist, liar, control freek etc keep coming up, it's because that's what he is and that's what people see him as no matter how much advertising he spends tax money on.
  97. Mark Tunis from Canada writes: Not being a Liberal or a Conservative, I know sleezes from either party when I see them. Harper and Co are just the latest in the string to fit the description. It would be best, since this is a Conservative scheme, if the party paid the bill. At least their members and supporters could then hold their heads up. As it is, it's just more Adscam, taking money from the taxpayers for the good of some crooks.
  98. diane marie from Canada writes: John Albert:-- You are one of dozens if not hundreds of posters who appear once on these fora, seemingly for the sole purpose of denigrating the level of quality you think you see and have judged. It's an easy thing to do, a whole lot easier than actually contributing something yourself and having those who read it evaluate it, perhaps even to comment. You are your fellow one-hit-wonders are cowards.

    And, by the way, I am on the LPC's e-mail list and have never received any talking points. Furthermore, I've had a look at the LPC's website a few times and don't see any formal talking-point system there. Where you WILL find official talking points is on the CPC website, where all you need do is enter your postal code and a radio talk show's contact information AND the day's talking points will be provided so that you can spear-carry into the rosy sunset.
  99. Jeff Tenbrooke from Vernon, Canada writes: I question the legal costs of $1.4 million for the Conservative Party screwup involving about $850,000 when the federal government under the Liberals spent an estimated $700,000 in legal costs to recoup $63 million owed to the taxpayers.

    Could it be that Conservative screwups are more costly than Liberal screwups?
  100. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Hard to believe that there are still CPC supporters defending this. The Cons have done everything they can to keep from facing the questions or coming forth with the evidence that would clear them of wrong doings and even went as far as to have their 5 star general (Finley) obstruct the hearing in a rather obnoxious and arrogant manner like he was above the members himself. A self imposed lord above the law.

    The fact that he and a fellow CPC chief had to run out the back door should tell you something isn't right. This is from the party to professed to bring integrity,transparency and above all....HONESTY to Ottawa. Instead they have left a black scar on the Canada's governing as a whole, they've hid everything they can from the world outside of the party and have lied to pretty much every question regarding their suspicious activities.

    These same supporters seem to also ignore all the money taxpayers are losing as the CPC keeps obstructing investigative panels and delaying on top of initiating legal battles that are simply political tactics and in the end will be seen as frivolous and inane.

    The last Conservative that sued Canada ended up costing us millions in legal fees and a settlement. We are now finding out he apparently perjured himself and swindled us.

    Are these CPC supporters just plain naive or completely blinded by partisanship?
  101. The Bubble from Canada writes: the conservatives are completely in the wrong under the present laws, they are arguing that the laws are wrong in the first place so their behavior can be made legal, it's assbackwards and criminal.
  102. Doug MacGregor from Canada writes:
    Mugabe and Harper...separated at birth.
  103. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Diane Marie, regarding your 1:24 AM post, that's the difference between us (the people outside of the diehard CPC'ers) and them. We don't need to be told what to say or think. Or where and how to do it. We also tend to view the world with both eyes open and we go through our days without political blinders on to keep us one track minded.

    We also have the ability to condemn any party when they step outside the permissible boundaries and not defend their faults simply because they are the party we voted for or support. Wrong is wrong and that's how Harper was elected.We held the Liberals accountable and they paid by way of lost votes. Too bad it was like shooting ourselves in the foot lol.

    Had Dion not focused on the Green Shift and Harper had run on achievements rather than attack ads for 2 1/2 yrs. maybe the coalition would have been readied by the Cons once again and we would be looking at Lib minority in a RUNNING and OPEN parliament.

    Cheers and GN.
  104. j.e. bligh from Victoria, BC, Canada writes: Is there ever going to be an end to all of the disgusting and illegal activities coming out of Ottawa?
    I really wish that this is the type of activity that would get more Canadians out voting instead of staying home.
  105. Stephen Harper's Ignorant Tories from Canada writes: There is no end to Conservative sleaze. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg.
  106. Frank Ziffel from New West, Canada writes: The good news is that Harper and his crew are ensuring that they are so thoroughly despised that they will not form a government for a generation...and with luck their coalition of conservative zombies will dissolve.
  107. John Brown from Maritimes, Canada writes: Honesty and accountability, thats what the CONservatives are supposed to be all about is it not. It appears they do not like being called to task afterall; is this not what they accused the Liberals of, lying and cheating Canadians. This case is costing taxpayer money and for what? They got caught with their hands in the cookie jar and broke their own rules once again and all in the name of a minority government. Good example you are setting there Mr. Two-face Harper, do you still use the title Honourable Mr. Steve Harper? I really don't think that may apply to you or members of your party right now, maybe in the next election they should look at replacing you with somebody a little more charismatic to stand a chance at a majority.

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