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"Affliction: Banned" draws 14,832 for $2.1 million gate

Fedor Emelianenko and Tom AtencioThis past Saturday's "Affliction: Banned" event drew a total attendance of 14,832 -- a small increase from the night's announced attendance of 13,988 -- for a live gate of $2,085,510.

The numbers, certified by the California State Athletic Commission, were today sent to media members, including MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).

The debut event for Affliction Entertainment took place at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif. Part of the card aired on FSN before switching to pay per view.

Of the 14,832 total tickets, 11,242 were sold, and 3,590 were complimentary and given away.

Although initially announced as a sold-out event, the CSAC reports that 15,572 tickets were available, and 740 went unsold/unused. The majority of those "deadwood" tickets were from the $200 (352 tickets) and $100 (248)sections.

Among the event's 3,590 complimentary tickets, most were for the cheapear seating areas, including the $150 (1,079), $100 (822) and $50 (652) sections. Ticket prices ranged from $45 to $1,000.

So how do Affliction's total attendance (14,832), paid attendance (11,242) and live gate ($2,085,510) figures stack up to the competition?

Here are how three recent UFC events at the Honda Center fared:

  • UFC 76: 13,770 tickets (11,817 paid) for a $1,985,000 gate
  • UFC 63: 12,604 tickets (9,343 paid) for a $1,582,370 gate
  • UFC 59: 13,814 tickets (13,060 paid) for a $2,191,450 gate

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jrspas05 on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:02 pm ET
Better than I expected but the true story will be in the ppv buys since the gate 
comes close to covering the fighter salaries
 

alexovie on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:11 pm ET
The gate was $2 million.  Fighter salaries were $3.3 million.  In what world is $2 mil close to $3.3 mil?  I want your bank account.
 

Drakkon on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:26 pm ET
that doesnt even include the figure from signing bonuses and the the rest of fedor's payday. affliction will be lucky to break even on this one
 

boonders on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:03 am ET
no you don't!  He's got about half of what he thinks he has!
 

chirinos2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:40 pm ET
you r such a dumass.
of course they make the money and even more, a lot of people don't think the this is about bussines remember the they r making the money just to name a few from the PPV, THE AFFLITCION BRAND , wich increase their sales in 200% more just for that weekend, and anothers diferents ways they make their money not to mention the you have to invest to be better and make money and the future so if u guys don't know what you r talking about don't say anything i bet the more than 80 % never been and a fight on the octagon i have so i can talk if u not just go somewhere else coz u have no IDEA what is this about, and fighters deserve as much they can get any guy who step in the octagon deserved respect and the money not everybody is cut out fir this.
 

newmmafan76131 on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:45 pm ET
What the heck did you say here?
 

chrisG on Jul 23, 2008 at 5:33 pm ET
HE BASICALLY KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT AND NOT SOME MMA FORUM POSTER. MAJORITY OF REVENUE IS GENERATED FROM SPONSORS, THE BRAND ITSELF, ENDORSEMENTS...ITS A BUSINESS, AND A MULTIFACITED ONE AT THAT. WE SHOULD ALL STICK TO WHAT WE KNOW
 

healthins101 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:22 am ET
58,000 PPVS

That's my best estimate.

My sister in law works at DIRECT TV and she told she took about 10% of the orders she normally takes for WWE or UFC ppvs.  Also they normally have more people work in her department on big PPVS and they didn't have any.

I'm not sure that's a big indication but it seems like it's going to TANK!!!
 

BlackStule on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:10 am ET
 really your sis-in law takes ALL the orders for directv?  wow I had no idea she was the head-sole-PPV-order-taker....thanks for the tip.  What exactly does an "inside" conection like that get you?
 

healthins101 on Jul 22, 2008 at 4:17 pm ET
[Deleted. No insults or name-calling. -J] .
 

Demon95 on Jul 22, 2008 at 6:37 pm ET
Since when is Diret. T.V the only F**** source to order pay per views?  [deleted] and relax girl
 

healthins101 on Jul 22, 2008 at 7:45 pm ET
Demon,

It's a small percentage but that's how polls are done all over the country.
They poll a very small percentage of people and come up with a consensus.

So in my opinion based on this small percentage of non-buys with her department of DIRECT TV I'm going to say the PPV numbers WILL TANK!

If you would like to wager on the actual number of PPVS I would love to.  I said 58,000 ppvs.
Do you want to take the OVER?  If not then shut up and move on, you scared little monkey.


I am a UFC --------- and proud of it.
 

Demon95 on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:58 pm ET
[Deleted. No insults or name-calling. -J]
 

BlackStule on Jul 23, 2008 at 8:56 am ET
[Deleted]
 

Jason on Jul 23, 2008 at 12:15 pm ET
Drop it and get back on topic.
 

_Blackhawk44_ on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:09 pm ET
You have to wonder how much they lost in this endeavor.

I mean 3.3 in pay outs and only 2.1 from the gate? So if they sold the PPV in 30,000 homes then they break even on the pay outs.

Then you have to figure in the cost of the advertising, for the venue, production cost plus hotel stay for VIP's yada yada yada.

I mean they have sunk some serious coinage in this thing and cross their fingers that if pays off.

Certainly will be interesting to see what happens...fighters aren't going to jump ship right away for the salaries...I mean they have contracts and all so Affliction will have to continue this for a while before they really can steal someone of some significance......don't ya think?

Will this cause Dana to fork over a bit more...hmm will be interesting indeed.
 

KimboSpice on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:18 pm ET
Not to mention the two cases of Pabst Blue Ribbon that they had to buy to get Megadeath to perform.  That had to be at least $20.00.
 

zackaryl on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:42 pm ET
icwhutudidthere
 

Marauder on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44 pm ET
That had to be the funniest thing I've ever read on this site!  Thanks for the laugh buddy! :)
 

TacoPuncher on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:20 am ET
Hahah.. dude that was good man.  Dont forget the bottles of Viagra they needed for the 60 year old groupies!
 

rhymeister on Jul 22, 2008 at 7:05 am ET
LMAO!  That's about all they are worth too.
 

DuBois1982 on Jul 22, 2008 at 8:17 am ET
Ha!  That sh*ts funny.  Did you see his face while singing, it looked like he was taking a dump on stage.

Great fights, hope that Affliction does well, but it seems like they are gonna end up losing money for the first couple of PPVs.  UFC did the same, so I guess it's all gonna boil down to whether or not the Trump wants to fork out a little more money to make it work.
 

sumotron on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:08 am ET
They would have had to have done far better then 30,000 to combine with the live gate to break even on fighter pay.  I don't know the numbers, but i do know cable and satelite companies charge to even hold a ppv on them.
 

availj78 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:16 am ET
Stunts like this are going to destroy MMA! If you pay these fighters more then their worth you create a big problem, most of all getting them to fight. Look at boxing, even before boxing sucked how often did you see a fighter more then once a year? When you pay athletes that arent tied to a seasonal sport like football or baseball to much, they fight only when they really need too! Imagine if the UFC paid its top fighters high six figures the same thing would happen. We as fan would be lucky to get one or two good events a year! I dont dislike Affliction, but I hope it settles down and keeps its fighters hungry because if they dont, this single event could end the monthly MMA events we all enjoy so much!
 

roysdogpound on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:50 am ET
That's why most MMA orgs sign fighters for multiple-fight contracts.  They don't pay them six figs for one fight unless you are a bigger name.  Everyone in the UFC (minus the major names) sign muti-fight deals to ensure they don't just magically appear when the bank account starts running dry.  Not to mention, if the fighter's managers actually want to make money, they need to make sure their fighters are making a name for themselves by actually winning fights.
 

LiuLang on Jul 22, 2008 at 9:43 am ET
What a lot of people are failing to take into account is the fact that PPV buys doesn't give Affliction all the revenue from the sales. 30k buys would not allow them to break even on the disclosed payroll at all.

The cable company and PPV provider take a significant part of the PPV sales. It was just mentioned in an article at MMAPayout that the UFC was just able to negotiate a 50/50 deal with the PPV providers due to the leverage they have now in the PPV market. Somehow I doubt Affliction got that as well. It's looking more and more like this event is going to tank financially.

Here's to hoping they're willing to take the hit.
 

mixefactory on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:38 pm ET
why would you figure in the cost of advertising? advertisers pay you ... you dont pay them. affliction made money and got their name out there. the only people talking sh*t know as much about payroll as they do about walking on the moon.
 

jwdink on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:12 pm ET
The cost of advertising? You mean the money they made from advertising? That should be a factor.
 

ManUpWear on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:21 pm ET
do you think TV stations pay companies to run their ads? how do tv stations make money then?
they had to pay a lot of money for all the ads they put out about the show.
TV, billboards, magazines, etc.

ManUp Wear
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:56 am ET
I think he means that they get money from sponsors just like the UFC does.  I don't remember who the sponsors were for the event but I know the UFC get some serious money from their sponsors.
 

WarlockHolmes on Jul 22, 2008 at 5:18 am ET
That's pretty bad for the sponsors if you don't recall who any of the sponsors were. 
 

nicdutcher on Jul 22, 2008 at 8:30 am ET
buckle/metropark
 

brentwilliams2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:43 am ET
Affliction Clothing is also a sponsor, although I'm sure they didn't pay any money.  But any increase in shirt sales should be included in this calculation.
 

Demon95 on Jul 22, 2008 at 6:41 pm ET
Dude it doesnt matter who their sponser are. THEY GOT DONALD. This sdude sh*ts sponser! Big time sponsers....real sponsers. He was more then likely turned on to this event as a buisness investment to see if it would tank or boom. It boomed thus giving this dude the green light to have his freinds invest in this org. And once it does ......take off!
 

mazzard on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:13 pm ET
Sounds like a good take.  The event cost a lot though with fighter salaries and promotion but I am hoping that they ultimately make money after PPV buys because that was the best show I have seen since the peak years of pride.  Outstanding event, can't wait for Fedor vs. Couture.  Crossing my fingers. 
 

Tubekid on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:15 pm ET
I wouldn't call losing over a million coming close to the fighters salaries. Not to mention all the bonuses and unreported payments made.  Right off the bat you could be looking at a 3-4 Million dollar loss not to mention whatever else they had to pay for, production, staff, etc...  Even if they got 50K PPV buys you are talking an extra 2 Mil... still a considerable loss. No way they can keep operating like that.

One thing...if the majority feels we shouldn't compare organizations then why everytime there is an Affliction article we have to see the comparisons to the UFC??

The figures shown of the past 3 UFC events at the Honda Center is weak IMO..
 
UFC 76 was how long ago? UFC 59?? 

MMA and the UFC is far more popular at this moment then any of those events. It's a pointless comparison.  If they were a month apart then it would be more credible.

Still interesting to know but it doesn't hold much weight


 

_Blackhawk44_ on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:29 pm ET
"The figures shown of the past 3 UFC events at the Honda Center is weak IMO..
 
UFC 76 was how long ago? UFC 59?? "

And yet UFC 59 had more folks than did 76... not a bad comparison but did the UFC hand out as many freebies as did Affliction....that is the key factor into the comparison to me.
 

_Blackhawk44_ on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:33 pm ET
as you can see they didn't Affliction gave out many more than UFC take away all the freebies from all the events and what do you have?

You have Affliction only out drawing one of the 3 rather than all of them.

As for the gate prices were lower then than now that is easy but like I said it is a fair comparison (IMHO).
 

roysdogpound on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:03 pm ET
I'm all for Affliction doing well in this event, I want to see some competition.  But, the UFC most likely gave high-dollar seats for freebies for those HC events and still grossed near the Affliction Event.

Although, something you've got to consider is that Trump doesn't get involved with something unless he thinks that he can eventually make money off of it.  And unfortunately for Dana White, Trump has the bankroll to ride this one out.  He can AFFORD to lose a few million a pop for the first few cards, as long as the viewership steadily increases.  And Trump didn't make his money by quitting everytime he hit a bump in the road, so I hate to upset all the UFC devotees in here but I think Affliction is going to be around for a while.  It may even come to the point where the UFC has to make a decision whether or not to purchase Affliction or possibly the other way around.

Let's face the facts here, if it comes down to a bankroll war, Trump is gonna win that one.
 

Lawdog on Jul 23, 2008 at 11:30 am ET
How much money did Trump invest?  I haven't seen any info on that.  Trump is a master at self promotion first and foremost.  I'd be willing to bet that he didn't really have much at risk, and still got all the attention.
 

Drakkon on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:30 pm ET
they were comparing the ufc 's last venture to the honda center. a better comparison though would be how many people watched ufc instead of affliction anhd see how many people dana white stole away. if he did enough damage, then he will do it every time and sink affliction.
 

Tubekid on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:33 pm ET
Yea, where are the UFC Spike TV ratings or is this all about Affliction and trying to hype them up? I am curious to know what kind of number Silva vs Irvin did...Where's that article??
 

Jak on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44 pm ET
Yeah, everyone's always trying to spin it so Affliction always looks good... they don't use the comparisons to ever make'm look bad.
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:06 am ET
They are comparing them to the times that the UFC has used the same venue.  What would be a better comparison than that?  Is it their fault that the UFC hasn't held a venue there in a while?  Maybe Affliction did a good job and it isn't spin to make them look good.  They are just reporting what happened.
 

KillaHitman on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:44 pm ET
  why can't they compare them?

   ufc 59 drew a larger crowd and had more gate than 76!!

    Why can it be a comparison to between Affliction 1 and UFC 59, 76?
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:04 am ET

Ok Tubekid, we get it.  You hate affliction.  It doesn't matter how good they do it won't be enough for people like you.  They had a better live gate than the UFC did on 2 of their last 3 appearances at the same venue.  That's doesn't mean anything though.  How many years did the UFC go before they broke a profit?  How much money did they invest to get a return?  I think Dana said it was over 40 Million.  But losing 2 million (your estimate) that is just insane.  It's not like the UFC lost 20 times that, oh wait they did. 

If they have decent PPV buys what are you going to say then?  If they make a profit, are you going to say that they didn't make as much of a profit as the UFC?  Affliction is not the UFC, but they did a hell of a job for their first event.  Even if they lose money on their first event they won't be the first ones to do so.  Name an MMA promotion who hasn't lost money on their first event.  Name an MMA promotion who isn't millions of dollars in debt in their first year. 

 

brentwilliams2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:47 am ET
Well said. 
 

jrspas05 on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:21 pm ET
they never expected to make a profit, they expected this to be a foundation for the future of mma.
 

scotsha on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:50 am ET
Foundation of losing and hemorraging huge amounts of cash with a stupidly huge card that didn't get nearly the attention if UFC had put a heavyweight card like that together.

We are all going to forget about this and the public still doesn't understand that this wasn't UFC.  UFC is like Kleenex is to tissue paper.   Just ask 10 random people that are NOT hardcore fight fans.  Their typical response is...  Is that like that Ultimate Fighting er thing. 

Also Affliction did state that they wanted the Entertainment division to turn a profit.  So... if they lose a million or two in the first show how long do you think the owners of a T-shirt company are going to stay committed.  My money is now on Tapout...they are the big winners here, heh. 


 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:09 am ET
You mean like when the UFC lost 40 million dollars?  That kind of hemorraging?
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:29 am ET
I believe the number was less than 30 million dollars, and the situation was different. The UFC name had some value, and there had been a time when it had been profitable. And there was no competition in north america.


Nowadays, it's a whole new world.
 

brentwilliams2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:58 am ET
scotsha, your comment had so many holes I don't know where to begin.  The card was too "huge"?  Oh no - you had too much MMA!  And you don't seem to realize that the UFC CAN'T put a heavyweight card like that together because their stable of heavyweights isn't nearly as good. 

Lastly, it's obvious that the public doesn't know who Affliction is yet because you seem to forget that they are NEW!  According to you, it sounds like it's a waste of time for any new promotion to start up because they won't immediately have the name recognition of UFC.  But even without hardly any name recognition as a fight promoter, they still had comparable gate sales with the UFC.  That says a LOT. 

The better that Dana White promoted UFC, the more he promoted MMA in general, which gives new promotions openings into the business because there are now a built-in audience that the UFC didn't have when they were just starting.  So if they improve their production value and pull together some more interesting matchups, they shouldn't be hemorraging nearly as long as the UFC did.
 

roysdogpound on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:12 pm ET
The owners of that T-shirt company have financial backing from one of the richest men on the planet, Donald Trump.  Dana White probably bought his private jet from a company which Trump is the majority share-holder.

Not to mention, the fact that Affliction put up those kind of numbers on the same night that the best pound-per-pound fighter on the planet moved up a weight class shows what kind of potential they have if they put up that kind of a card on a night when the UFC doesn't counter with a card of their own.
 

chrisbboy82 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:41 pm ET
I think that this situation as far as losing money or not is similar to TNA (Total Nonstop Action Wrestling) in that as far as Donald Trump is backing Affliction financially, there really is no issue for NOW. The comparison is that TNA is backed by Panda Energy and regardless of how well or not well they do, as long as Panda Energy is backing TNA, they will still stay afloat. Similar to Affliction, as long as Donald Trump is with Affliction, they will still stay afloat. This first Affliction show only indicates so much. We will know how well or not well Affliction is doing by the next shows.  If PPV buys for the next show are higher than this one and if the buys keep increasing for future ones, then it will be a success (of course that will take a while). It is like buying a house in that it is only worth so much when you buy it , but it may or may not be worth more in the future. UFC was the same way in that it was not worth much when it started but it is now worth billions. I think that Trump and anyone else investing in Affliction hope that Affliction becomes worth more in the future as well. They have to build up the Affliction name first and that takes A LOT of time. In order to build up their name, they have to have consistently high-quality events so the fans will eventually recognize Affliction as being synonymous with high-quality fights similar to the UFC. Like I said, this first event only says so much; look for future events to gage how Affliction is doing.
 

Tubekid on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:24 pm ET
That Donald Trump and Affliction clothing company....what nice people they are. They care for MMA...are you kidding me bro? Nobody loses money on purpose.. 

Did they anticipate a possible loss? Sure....did they want to? Hell no..
 

eckoltz on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:25 pm ET
And mind you the salaries were just "reported." Fedor is getting either a bonus or a % from the PPVs that was not reported. I'm calling a 4-5 million dollar loss. Their next event will have Tito, but who the f is he going to fight, Phil Baroni?Too many eggs in one basket with this PPV is going to make the rest of their events thin/
 

KimboSpice on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:43 pm ET
If they wait a couple of months, they have all the same eggs to work with again.  Pretty sure they are not planning an event in the next week/month.  The winners of most of those fights didn't get beat up, so there is no reason they can't be involved in the next event.
 

KillaHitman on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:46 pm ET
Vitor Belfort vs Tito Ortiz.

 count on it
 

KimboSpice on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:55 pm ET

That and Fedor v AA makes for a great drawing PPV. 

I would rather see Barnett get the shot against Fedor though, that is the next Heavyweight fight I want to see. 

 

brentwilliams2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:21 pm ET
I could see a Fedor/Barnett and AA/Sylvia revenge fight.  Then the winners fight.
 

larrinho on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:47 pm ET
what if Fedor beats Barnett and Sylvia beats AA....then we'll end up with Fedor Vs Tim again, and that sucks!
 

scotsha on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:55 am ET
yep and combined salary...almost a million.  What is going to be the impact on MMA, almost none.  And this is good for MMA? 

I am a believer that MMA needs to build from the bottom up and create stars, new markets, new fans.  This is a very top Heavy(heh) approach and recycles a few matchups that just the hardcore fans wanted.  Weird part is that I bet Kimbo made less than some of these guys and also has 10 times the marketing power.  Who is overpaid now? 


 

ManUpWear on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:26 pm ET
anybody that has their own business on here understands Affliction's strategy.
I think they made quite an impact in the MMA world.
yes, they are going to lose money, they knew that.
they will lose money on the next show, and the one after that.
but they will have a better idea of how to run things and how to get closer to that break even point, while at the same time building a fan base and a fighter roster.

it's all part of the "business plan", i assure you, not one single executive from Affliction is surprised they didn't make money on this show, that wasn't the point. the point is the fights were good, the show was good, the fighters are happy, noone is crying to get their money back, and we are all talking about the show days after it happened. it's not cheap to be successful in MMA.

ManUpWear
 

eckoltz on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:38 pm ET
Manup,

the point is understood, but how much money are they making on the next show when you have no one who's going to draw. If Tito is their next headliner, how's lining up to order that PPV?  the power of the UFC is that they are the name brand. UFC is MMA whether you like it or not. If Affliction wants to survive, they're going to have do some hardcore mainstream advertising,marketing and get the casual fan.
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:13 am ET
Every UFC PPV that has Tito on it has a large draw.  It doesn't matter that he isn't even ranked in the top 10.  He will always be a draw because of his name. 
 

Dugganmma on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:45 pm ET
they will lose money on the next show, and the one after that


Dude, they said they'll only do 3 shows, re-evaluate, then maybe they'll do more. According to you, they'll be out by the 3rd show.

Attencio said already that him & his investors (trump) are not in this to lose money (and who would be), so none of them (especialy Trump) are going to sit around and watch millions go to Russia's economy just because they like MMA.

I think they MIGHT have a 2nd show, and IF that turns a profit, MAYBE a third, but THATS ALL FOLKS!
 

scotsha on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:58 am ET
Trump is in no position to lose any money....just a very good possibility that he wasted some time and effort.  But he probably doesn't care because at least he was able to help put a few huge shows on and let someone else take the dive if it doesn't succeed. 
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:36 am ET
I don't think Trump has  invested much time or effort into this project. Apparently, he did a couple of media interviews in the days leading up to Affliction's debut (and according to The Wrestling Observer) he didn't come across as knowledgeable or interested. He didn't mention the names of the fighters, the exact date of show, etc. If the hosts hadn't stated the name of the show, it wouldn't have even been mentioned, because Trump either couldn't remember it or simply forgot to say it.

He just kept saying it was "sold out".
 

roysdogpound on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:22 pm ET
Amen ManUpWear!

That is absolutely my point.  They will continue to lose money on the next few fights, but the point of starting up a venture like this for the first few fights is to develop a "client base" of sorts.  And then a couple of years down the line, you start to make the REAL money.  Nobody starts up a business and starts making millions off of it right off the bat (hell, most of the time you are in the red for the first 5 years or so).  One fight is not going to break Donald's bank no matter HOW much they lose, and if they DIDN'T plan to lose money on this fight then they exercised poor business sense, but that's not how Trump does things, guaranteed.
 

nsteling1 on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:35 pm ET
Also with the loss of t-shirt revenue this should start the end of affliction. UFC sign Fedor please!!!!
 

roysdogpound on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:26 pm ET
What loss of T-Shirt revenue???  If anything it will go UP after this, for the simple fact that they even HELD this event.  Hell, Affliction is getting free advertising as we speak right here on mmajunkie for the simple fact that we are even talking about them.
 

KimboSpice on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:38 pm ET

I see all of the keyboard warriors are working their day jobs as keyboard accountants.  You can not take any of the numbers released and figure out what the loss/profit is.  You don't have all the data. 

Two things we know currenlty;

Fighter purses
Live gate

Some of the many things we don't know

PPV purchases
production costs
cost of venue
cost of non-fighting personnel (announcers, refs, doctors, security, etc. etc.)
cost of advertising
cost of 4 hour PPV slot rental
payment from Fox for broadcasting rights

payments from sponsors

 

Dugganmma on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:51 pm ET
Exactly
 

Riley_96 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:27 am ET
the cable company i use had it running back to back  so in that case 8 hours of rental space
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:15 am ET
That's because your cable company didn't have anything better to put in that time slot.  They don't pay for the hour, they make a deal for the show itself.  If the cable company wants to repeat, that is up to them.
 

Jak on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:39 pm ET
i think it will depend on who they can bring in for their next event, as long as its not the same card but all the matches rearranged... i don't see how that would be a bigger draw. Barnett vs. Fedor, although the fight we would like to see, would it draw more? Tim Sylvia's a bigger draw then Barnett...

but i'll wait till the PPV buys come out...

as a Business they were hoping for 250k, if they didn't crack at least 80k, then by their own business plan i'd say they may have some troubles...


 

Tubekid on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:47 pm ET
Affliction the clothing line is a fad.....consider them like Von Dutch.....a year or two from now nobody will want to wear their clothing.. It wont be the "in" thing to do anymore...you will see someone rockin an affliction shirt and laugh.. same as we all do when we see someone wearing a Von Dutch trucker hat....

Loud clothing styles and designs are in one minute and out the next....

Once "stars" rockers, actors, etc...move onto the next "it' designer it's bye bye..

Losing tons of bank on fight promotion is a risky proposition..

Seriously, let's not compare Affliction and UFC anymore..it's so tired...

Junkie i absolutely love the site but let's go out and get more interviews with fighters, in depth looks, etc...

Reading articles from your staff about comparisons, and how this is good for the sport, etc..is pointless right now. This is 1 show they did. Let's revisit all this after a full years worth..

The Ultimate Fighter blogs are awesome...grab a few fighters to blog for us..give us an inside look into the world of MMA..

Just one loyal viewers opinion




 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:17 am ET
If you don't care about it, stop posting 20 comments to every article about the topic.
 

FACELESSMAN on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:12 am ET
affliction clothes are huge in the west coast, it really has not hit the east coast and the product affliction puts out for their clothes is better than any abercrombie or gap gear
 

FACELESSMAN on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:13 am ET
definately wouldnt consider a quality product a "fad"
 

ezx248 on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:28 am ET
U realize ur talking about clothing in a MMA section...who da f**k cares about what in fad u fruit cake

U just hate Affliction for no reason just because they had a realy sick fight card
 

FACELESSMAN on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:10 pm ET
settle down there mma wanna be.  with out the affliction clothing line there wld of been no sic ppv this past saturday, so i do care about the business.  where (besides the donald) is the money coming from for the fights.  ignorant people suck.
 

CodeBlue on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:50 pm ET
I don't remember who was in UFC 59, 63, 76 right off hand, but I'll bet that there was not as many big names in one card as this one had.  So affllictions "biggest card in MMA history" was close to just another month of UFC fights.  If UFC did what affliction did, you would see Spider, Chuck, BJ, GSP, Nogueira, Fitch, Franklin all in one card, but what would be left for the next month?  Everyone has to remember, the UFC will have at least one card a month, with the ablilty to put a pretty darn good card together at the drop of a hat, plus UFC fight nights every so often.  I will be anxious to see afflictions next card.  Who's on it, and how long before it comes.
 

Dugganmma on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:56 pm ET
76 was Lidell vs Jardine, Shogun vs Forrest, Sanchez vs Fitch,Kaz vs Machida, Clementi vs Johnson, Tyson Griffin vs Tavares
 

Dugganmma on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:01 am ET
and 59 had

Arlovski v Sylvia
Diaz v Sherk
Ortiz v Griffin


Those are pretty big names, especially on UFC 76 which was less than a year ago.
 

NuckChorus on Jul 21, 2008 at 11:55 pm ET
Lets not forgot that Dana has publicly said that if it wasn't for the success of TUF, then the UFC might have well gone under as well.  They ran in the red for quite a while.  Durring one of his interviews he stated that the Fertitta brothers were close to pulling the plug.

Any start up out there doesn't expect to turn a proffit off the bat.  They'd love to but don't expect it, they build their product for the long haul.
 

Jaeger on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:17 am ET
Is there a particular reason people seem hell bent on Affliction failing?

with every positive benchmark reached, people seem to want to redefine what is a successful FIRST attempt.

I'm an MMA fan, I hope they all do well.  UFC, EXC,  Affliction and DREAM.

I don't understand why MMA fans would want anything less...
 

Jak on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:21 am ET
Because just as many people are 'hellbent' on seeing the UFC fail for some reason...
 

rfecteau on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:35 pm ET
Really? Show me one comment on this site where an mma fan wanted the ufc to fail?

I'm waiting...
 

alexovie on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:26 am ET
With one organization you will have one true champion in each weight class.  If the different promotions don't cross promote then you don't always get to see the best match ups.  If Affliction were to ever get a super stud middleweight who was tearing through everyone who wasn't in the UFC, wouldn't it be a shame not to see that guy fight Anderson Silva?  With one organization you would get that.  With a bunch of promotions you get...boxing.
 

fasaani on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:56 am ET
Now all we need to do is get someone to play along with other kids on the yard
 

michaelsalas on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:39 am ET
I agree with you bro.  Don't get me wrong I love the UFC but I would love it even more if they cross promoted.  I hope the other promotions do well so that we may eventually see the UFC fighters fight fighters from other promotions. 
 

BrandedToKill on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:32 am ET
You missed the point that alexovie was making. NO cross promotions because it turns out like boxing. Have only promotion like NHL,NBA,NFL,MLB so all the best fighters make it to the "BIG" time (which equals the UFC).
 

WarlockHolmes on Jul 22, 2008 at 5:36 am ET
You missed the point.  All of those leagues have multiple teams and multiple owners that both compete and work together to make money.  If the UFC was the only promotion there would be only one owner (or 1 group of owners) not competing againsting each other, but against the fighters on what they have to pay which would be peanuts because where else are they gonna go.    People on here are so stupid.  If this were boxing Fedor and Randy would be fighting no problem.  The problem with boxing isn't necessarily the alphabet organizations but the fact that there's no umbrella organization that regulates them and declares the true overall rankings and champions.  Instead they have Ring magazine which is all opinion and no power.  MMA is already trying to fix and avoid that with WAMMA, which is probably a good idea.  You could have as many leagues or promotions as you like, but WAMMA makes the final call on rankings.  All you need after that are organizations that are willing to co-promote.  It happens in boxing all the time and mega-fights get made despite different belts and differnt promoters.  The real problem here is the UFC being stingy, not wanting to pay their fighters their fare share, not wanting to play with anyone else, and in turn ruining it for us fans.  Why do you think their HBO deal fell through?  Because they didn't want to give up any production control or have unbiased outside commentators or people give an honest assessment of what's going on in the ring.  It was too American for their Nazi Propaganda machine.  Could you imagine the commentators actually calling out bad decisions when they happen (Bisping v Hamill, Forrest v Rampage)?
 

alexovie on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:29 am ET
Not to mention, if there is only one promotion, then that would be the promotion that would be on network T.V., and I would get to watch good fighters, not some super hyped main event like Kimbo Slice. 
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:53 am ET
"Is there a particular reason people seem hell bent on Affliction failing?"

Personally, I think that too many companies water down the talent pool. I'd much rather see all of the top fighters in one organization. Also, it doesn't matter whether we want Affliction to fail or not- it is going to happen. They are losing money, and there is no reason to believe they can turn it around.
 

KillaHitman on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:18 am ET
fun fact #1:  fans that cannot shell out $40 to watch a pay-per-view, wishing that UFC should be the one and only MMA promoter.
 

nsteling1 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:33 am ET
I dont care whether its UFC or AFFLICTION I just want all the best fighters in one place. Maybe im just greedy but I want to see the best fights with the best fighters all the time. whether that be the UFC or Affliction I care not.
 

barrsmoke on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:44 am ET
How in the hell does a boring dude that nobody really likes watching fight, get $800,000?  And how does Fedor only make $300,000?  He must get a cut of the profit or something.

Because if Fedor's asking price is $300,000 per fight, and Dana White doesn't have him fighting for the UFC, then something isn't right.  He is definitely worth $500,000 to show.

Either way, that spent a lot of money for some of those guys.  

If they can afford another show, they should put Arlovski up against Fedor or Barnett.  Or any combo of the 3. 
 

KillaHitman on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:50 am ET

   I don't mind paying $40 to see an event with a group of great fighters, what I don't do and won't do is pay $40  to see weak cards...

   ufc 87 has one fight that is appealing to ME.  GSP vs J.Fitch, I would say an above average fight.
   then Florian vs Huerta, I would say a good fight.

   Lesnar and Herring doesn't appeal me, yet.

   I won't pay $40 bucks for it.

   It's good that UFC has at least 12 Events in the year.. but not all of them are worth $40 bucks. So this is where I and many other fans, want/wish for other promoters to step up, specially when and if they show up they bring a stacked card worthy of $40.

   12 UFC events + 3 Affliction + 5 Dream +-5 EliteXC + WEC + HDNET

   IT'S NOT ENOUGH..... :)
 

nsteling1 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:02 am ET
But i bet it would appeal to you if it was Fedor vs Randy, or Gomi vs Penn. 1 premire organization= The best fights possible :)
 

rfecteau on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:40 pm ET
So, what you are saying is you aren't really an mma fan, just a "name" fan? Some of the best fights I've seen were between guys I hardly knew.
 

parkerwshngtn on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:51 am ET
It was the fighters' plea for another organization, not just a t-shirt guy. The principle of all this isn't any different than free agency in other sports.  Its not just the Affliction guys who are getting paid more.  I guarantee you all the elite fighters in every organization are gonna get more money because of this.   This was a big draw and sponsors see this.  Now that the sport is not seen as "cockfighting", the doors are open to the highest bidders.  Nobody would touch mma a few years ago because of its lack of acceptance by the public.  Sponsors will keep Affliction afloat.  Anything that draws 14,000+ fans is gonna get new sponsors.  It does suck for Dana because he opened those doors.  
 

sumotron on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:14 am ET
Affliction won't be kept afloat by sponsers because of the following.

A) The UFC is working it's butt off to bring in huge names like Bud, Harley, and Burger King (as well as huge deals to sell UFC merchandise in retail stores).

B) A name like Affliction (and Megadeth playing at its shows) is not going to sit well with the Wal-Marts and Coca-Colas of the world.

A large part of marketing is image, and although Affliction has everything it needs to be huge with hardcore fans, it's completly ignoring that it's the masses paying the bills.  Also, if you watch both events you'll see a huge difference in sponsorship.
 

BrandedToKill on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:44 am ET
"The fighter's plea"? C'mon, really?  Sylvia? Boring. The Pitbull? Last few fights in the UFC were snoozefests. Barnett? he's been fighting in Japan way too long. Babalu? Yea right he got booted cause he was a jerk.

"The principle of all this isn't any different than free agency in other sports"
Yea but free agency in other sports isn't between rival football leagues or rival baseball leagues. It's all in 1 league. So that logic does not apply.

"I guarantee you all the elite fighters in every organization are gonna get more money because of this".
Not gonna happen. Other orgs aren't going to fork out money to lost it on an event.
 

WarlockHolmes on Jul 22, 2008 at 5:57 am ET
Wow, there are some really ignorant comments on here.  I blame it on NCLB.  Why is it that anyone that doesn't fight in the UFC, even recent ex-champs that don't re-sign, sucks all of the sudden, when only a few shows ago they were the sh*t?  Of course this is going to cost Dana more money in fighters salaries.  Unlike the UFC fanboys on here, the fighters don't care about the brand, they care about whose going to treat them better and pay them more.  And now they have one hell of a bargaining chip.  The UFC will now finally be forced to ante up to keep the rest, who haven't already left (former and current HW champs included) , from jumping ship. 

And the UFC is not a league.  Leagues have teams with owner(s), plural, that compete against each other and help each other make money (they split attendence).  You can't have a league with just one owner.  That would mean the only people they'd compete against are the fighters. 
 

fitchfan17 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:04 am ET
they got 2.1 million buux, but they paid 3.3 million to the fighters.... good profit
 

jrd8523 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:08 am ET
barrsmoke,

For sure Fedor gets a huge cut of the profit.  Fedor is rumored to have a promotional contract with Affliction in addition to his fight contract that paid him most of his money before the fight.  Payout has his rumored pay to be around 1.5 mil.  The amount of people who actually think that Fedor might had only made 300,000 is shocking.  It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that Affliction didnt really pay Fedor the same amount of money they paid Matt Lindland.

Will be interesting to see the revenue from the PPV buys and if they come anywhere near close to breaking even.  Its really all about the next show and how much the numbers drop or grow in comparison to this one.  If they get Fedor Vs. Couture they could have a chance to really get a show that will have people buzzing.
 

finger on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:17 am ET
Everyone who loves fights should have a high hard one.  Silvia destroys Irvin. Fedor Destroys Timmy. Hansen pounds out Aoki.  Jesus, I've watched around 30 mma fights this weekend and 25 of them were worth watching and I have the free cbs card and margarito vs. cotto.  What's not to like.  I just do not understand all the hate for one organization over the other. I love them all.  Keep the fights coming.
dream-cro-cop vs. overeem
            alverez vs. hansen II
afflicition-fedor vs. randy
               tito vs. lil nog.
ufc-silvia vs. anybody
can't wait for the next punch
 

KillaHitman on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:29 am ET
 Overeem will destroy Cro Cop, he is the next big HW, he needs more fights though.

 I'm a fan of Alvarez and Hansen. Great fighters.

 Randy will retire, after he cashes his check, just like Sylvia.

 Tito will most likely fight Vitor in a Rematch. Both are very well know. it's more appealing then nogueira vs Tito.   but that will be speculation.
 
  since both are signed and have fought for Affliction, Lill Nog vs Vitor.. that should be a great Boxing match, KO to come for sure.

  and when you wrote ufc-silvia..  I'm pretty sure you were talking about Anderson 'the Spide'  SILVA.  just like  Tiago Silva, Wanderlei Silva....   Sylvia would be 6'8" TIMmy
 

finger on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:38 am ET
most definetly the spider.  Fedor and Anderson are clearly the great ape and the lion of the jungle.  Goddamnit I am drunk of bloodlust.......I hope all the organizations make plenty of money....what a weekend.
 

KillaHitman on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:21 am ET

  I agree the more fights, the more organizations the better, good product stays, bad will always go away.

    I'm stoked with all this fights.
 

sublime420otown on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:23 am ET
 I would feel safe in saying I think people will be suprised at the ppv buys. This Affliction event will easily turn a profit I just hope they profit enough to come in bigger and badder for their 2nd show. Affliction show for me was worth every penny for the ppv. Just one mans opinion God bless this sport!!
 

hispeed on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:31 am ET
as far as ppv goes.. all the buisness establishments that showed it didnt pay 50 bux.  There were quite a few, at least in houston.  For a start up fight organization to bring in 14K people to watch fights, that says alot.  I think Tom and company will be satisified when all the smoke clears.  At the end of the day, it says alot when a startup company can pay these fighters a salary they deserve while UFC keeps doing what they do.  Buisness is buisness and to each there own, but I think the 800 lb gorilla just shed quite a few pounds.  It a great time to be an MMA fan.  Oh and i can't imagine the payday Tim got.  800k for losing but did you get a glimps of his shorts?  I know it was a quick 36 seconds but he probably had like 10+ sponsors.  That ain't cheap either!  I wonder if Fedor sells himself short, i didn't see any sponsors on his speedo other than his name plastered across his ass.  Makes for a nicer payday that is for sure. 
 

hispeed on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:36 am ET
oh i forgot.. those complementary tickets were for the megadeth groupies! 
 

KillaHitman on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:45 am ET

   Business ppv orders have another name for it, it costs way more too, I think there were more than 650 requests for business establishments showing. There was only one place(that i know of) in Massachusetts, but some states had more than 50.
 

michaelsalas on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:35 am ET
I honestly thought it was a great event.  I enjoyed it more than the other non UFC events.  Of course they took a loss.  They expected a loss.  They said they would analyze this loss and decide whether or not to do it again.  I guess it all depends on how they look at the loss.  Those fighter salaries were fat though.  Even if theny don't do anymore events, Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski got paid fat !! Sylvia $800K and Arlovski$1M.  How crazy is that.  That would be cool if they kept it up.  The name "Affliction" is already branded.  Who knows, it could be that the event (even though they took a loss) could help brand the "Affliction" name.  I heard the clothing line did about $300 million in 2007.  There are so many ways to look at the loss.  I guess we'll see.
 

BUDO on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:49 am ET
no one can say anything until we see the PPV sales.. If they do 100,000 or 150,000 that is 4mil to 6mil just in PPV. I bet they at least did 100,000 PPV buys. But no one knows until it is released to the public. I hope they do well.. Dream put on another great show.. I love watching MMA and I am tired of UFC always talking down about the new org's.. I think its great for the fighters to make money doing what they love and being able to fight in different Org.. UFC is great and shouldn't worry about what other ORG's are doing.. But it does seem that DANA is worried having to put up an event the same night as Affliction.. but when some of there fighters see what other org's like Affliction is paying I bet when contracts are up you see more jump ship.. The 2 fighters that didn't even get to fight made what some of the UFC fighters made who had to fight.
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:41 am ET
"no one can say anything until we see the PPV sales.. If they do 100,000 or 150,000 that is 4mil to 6mil just in PPV. I bet they at least did 100,000 PPV buys. But no one knows until it is released to the public".

The ppv numbers are very important, and The Wrestling Observer should have stimates within the next couple of weeks. I'd say a good guess would be between 10,000 and 50,000 buys.
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 28, 2008 at 5:01 pm ET
According to today's issue of The Wrestling Observer, Affliction's got approximately 50,000 to 85,000 ppv buys. These are only estimates (and actually better than I expected) but considerably less than Atencio claimed.
 

Derek on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:08 am ET
ive said it once and ill say it again, just watch the fights and SHUT THE F**K UP....
 

Parloso on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:37 am ET
yesssir!!!! I called it, everypne was so quick to hate , but they can hang!!! WATCH THE FIIIIIIGHTS.....not the PROMOTION!!!!!
 

Parloso on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:37 am ET
yesssir!!!! I called it, everypne was so quick to hate , but they can hang!!! WATCH THE FIIIIIIGHTS.....not the PROMOTION!!!!!
 

duck on Jul 22, 2008 at 6:14 am ET
Lets say for arguements sake affliction got 100,000 ppv buys.  At $40 per that is 4 million dollars best case they get 80% (3.2million)of that after cable gets their share.  Add the 2 million from the gate and that puts the gross around  5.2 million for the event.  now subtract the fighters base pay of 3.3 million and that leaves 1.9 million. 

out of the 1.9 Affliction still has to pay
fadors signing bonus
production cost
venue rental
other bonuses
promotions
licences

Take all that and they may have broke even if they got 100,000 ppv buys.  I could be way off I'm just guessing at these figures and using some simple math to see where they might stand.
 

MMAuthority on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:25 pm ET
Your point was legit but your figures were off...


PPV buys does not equate that amount in revenue for the promotion. UFC has the best PPV deal (now) in a 50/50 split. And that wasnt untill recently that they got that..

Most other promotions dont get that much, it's more realistic to a 30/70 or 40/60 with the promotion getting the "lower" of the percentage numbers. So if by chance they did 100K in total buyrates on an average of 40 a pop that = 4 million gross. Now cut your percentages from that figure, then calculate taxes after that and see what the true "net" numbers are from there.. Only then will you see what they made in revenue (not profit) from a promotional standpoint. Then you can start subtracting the other neccessities such as:

Production costs
Venue Rental
Advertising costs
Medical for fighters
Comp'ed reinbursements
Bonuses
etc..


On another note.. Fedor is not getting a "percentage of the profits"... As there will likely not be any.. He may however get a "precentage of the PPV buys" which translates into greater potential earnings on the back end..

I'm more inclined to believe his money came by way of his "Promotional" contract through Affliction via sponsorships..

Also take into consideration that Fedor "does not net" his earn money either.. He does have management fee's and percentages just like any other fighter does.. He has to take cuts from his earnings towards taxes, fee's and percentages as well..

So the bottom line for earnings is always a little blurred in there with what an entertainer really takes home when it's said and done...      
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:27 pm ET
"Lets say for arguements sake affliction got 100,000 ppv buys.  At $40 per that is 4 million dollars best case they get 80% (3.2million)of that after cable gets their share.  Add the 2 million from the gate and that puts the gross around  5.2 million for the event.  now subtract the fighters base pay of 3.3 million and that leaves 1.9 million.  out of the 1.9 Affliction still has to payfadors signing bonusproduction costvenue rentalother bonusespromotionslicencesTake all that and they may have broke even if they got 100,000 ppv buys.  I could be way off I'm just guessing at these figures and using some simple math to see where they might stand."


It looks like you're waaay, waaay off.

They won't get anywhere near 100,000 buys (10,000 to 50, 000 is far more likely).  Also, they will be lucky to gey 50% of the ppv. So lets say they do 30, 000 buys. At 40 bucks a buy that is $1.2 million dollars and they'd get half. So their cut would be $600,000.

The gate was 2.1 million (and as I 've said before, I believe that number was faked). But for now, let's accept it. Add the ppv and it's going to a total of 2.7 million dollars.

Now lets look at the payroll. 3.2 million plus Fedor's signing bonus for a total of at least 4.5 million. Subtract 2.7 million and the loss is around 1.8 million. Yes there are other factors: production costs, advertising, venue rental, etc. And certainly, they must have made something from endorsements as well as merchandise sales.

When it's all said and done, they will likely lose millions of dollars on this show.
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:18 pm ET
The live gate was certified by CSAC, what are you talking about.  Why is it faked?
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:16 pm ET
This is what I know: Back when Pride did it's two north american shows, their live gates were both officially reported at around two million dollars each. I remember thinking that was pretty good. Well, just a few months ago, The Wrestling Observer reported that those numbers were faked. Apparently, Pride had sold thousands of tickets to themselves and then gave hem away to the general public. Officially, those shows each had a $2,000,000 gate, but realistically they only sold $1,000,000 worth of tickets to the public.

It's common knowledge that K-1 did the same thing on an even larger scale at the Coliseum. As for Affliction, Atencio at one point said they sold 8,000 tickets. The next day, Trump said they were sold out. Days after that, you could still buy blocks of eight tickets in just about every price range (just a couple of days before the event).  Then, as if by magic, they got a full house. I say Trump or Atencio bought several thousand tickets and gave them away at the last moment. If I'm right, The Wrestling Observer will eventually report it.
 

duck on Jul 22, 2008 at 8:40 pm ET
Don't jump on me two quick.  I said "for arguements sake" and then made up a fictious number to go off of as a base line.  I never said that is the numbers they were gonna get.  I just made up a number to plug in to see what affliction would have to do to break even.  That was it.  You did help with my arguement by correcting the % they get from ppv buys.  If that is the case they would have to do way better than 100,000 ppv's to keep from losing money.  

 
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:22 pm ET
duck, I've got no problems with you. I just wanted to keep the numbers realistic. Eventually, the numbers will come out,  and we'll know for sure how the did.
 

rhymeister on Jul 22, 2008 at 6:58 am ET
Not bad at all for a first event, to outdo the last UFC.  Would be interesting to see the PPV figures to see how those match up w/ UFC's.
 

MullaJW on Jul 22, 2008 at 8:47 am ET
I agree, not a bad start at all. Granted they had Fedor headlining so let's hope the November event is stacked too. I can only imagine Dana is going to step it up a bit. Let's see some more freebies!!!!
 

FeelzGood on Jul 22, 2008 at 9:05 am ET
It's good to see number like that, but I still don't think things will stack up.  The draw for Affliction on PPV wasn't the casual MMA fan, I'm sure they enticed some into buying it, but I doubt it had the draw of a UFC PPV card.  Furthermore there were a decent percentage, not a majority by any means, of hardcore MMA fans who opted to watch UFN not to mention those who watched online.  The Justin.tv feed of Affliction Banned alone had over 2,000 viewers at some point.  That doesn't even figure in all of the other feeds that hardcore MMA fans rely on to steal events.  All of this combined doesn't even take into account fighter pay.  The amount that Affliction made on the gate basically covers Fedor's pay, and that's gross not profit.  Unless merch sales were off the charts and PPV buys numbered in the half-million mark I don't see how this promotion can be successful.
 

tonikred on Jul 22, 2008 at 9:46 am ET
     Am  I  the  only  one  that  realized  that  the  entire  Affliction  card  was  filled  with  mis-matches.- even  before  the  card  started  you   knew  the  outcome  of  every  fight . I  realize  you  got  to  see  Fedor  and  Barnett  fight .----and   andre's  return.   but,  at  least  give  me  one  fight  that  I  could  say   before  hand "  this  is  going  to  be  a  great  fight ,  lets  see  who  wins  when  the  smoke  clears "
 

CobraKai on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:25 pm ET
I think you are the only one that cares.  It was their first card.  Every fighter was fighting for their promotion for the first time.  They needed to establish names.  They needed to give their top fighters someone they would feel comfortable on their first fight so they would be more likely to take the match.  How many fighters turn down Dana when he offers them a fight?  If Afflictions fighters said I don't want that matchup where do they go from there?  Maybe that is what happened.  Maybe they had sick matchups and the fighters wouldn't sign the bout agreement so they had to go with lesser fighters in the matchups.  IT IS THEIR FIRST CARD.  If their next card is exactly the same way I will agree with you that they need to mix it up, but quit beating a dead horse.  Most of the fights were still exciting even if some were one sided. 
 

rtwil on Jul 22, 2008 at 9:46 am ET
Congrats to Affliction!  They drew better live than what I thought they would do...especially with only having around 8500 tickets sold a week and a half out.  While it is true that they will live or die on their ppv numbers, the attendance was very comparable to the UFC. 

It was a good card (not as great as some hyped) with some great fights (AA v Rothwell should be a fight of the year candidate).  Sometimes as fans (myself included) we get so caught up in fighter pay, rather something was a good business decision, how much profit something will make, how well we think a fighter is being treated, etc that we forget about what is really important...the fights.  At the end of the day, Affliction put together a solid card of fights and fans attended.  Congrats to them!

 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 10:25 am ET
I am suspicious of this 2.1 million dollar live gate. It's well known that K-1 tried to inflate the live gave for it's north american mma show by selling thousands of tickets to themselves and then giving those tickets away. Though probably less known, Pride did the same thing (although to a lesser degree) at both of it's american shows. Live gates of $1,000,000 became $2,000,000 live gates and it was a year before The Wrestling Observer even reported it.


My gut feeling is that Affliction is pulling the very same trick.
 

rfecteau on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:48 pm ET
The CSAC would have no reason the "fake" the numbers. Grow up please.
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:26 pm ET
Learn how to read. The CSAC doesn't fake the live gate numbers, but promoters do. Read an issue of the Wrestling Observer once in awhile, and you'd know what I'm talking about.
 

Foshizzle on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:24 am ET
Rather than everyone guessing here, let's just do a quick pro forma:

Costs:

Fighter Salaries:               $3,300,000
Bonuses not on SI list:     $1,500,000  (most agree Fedor must be getting more than indicated)
Advertising:                      $1,500,000  (could've been a lot more)
Misc. Staff to run event:     $200,000

Total:                                $6,500,000

Revenue:

Gate:                              $2,100,000
Bump in clothing sales       $500,000  (this could come over the next few months)
Subtotal:                         $2,600,000

HOW MANY PPV BUYS TO BREAKEVEN?
So to breakeven , they need to make $3,900,000 on PPV which at an aggressive 50/50 split with the
cable companies means they would have to do just under 200,000 buys to break even.

I'm sure there are costs I forgot or underestimated, and if the clothing sales take off that's upside for the company, but
this should give everyone a better idea of where they need to be to breakeven.   Change the numbers
to suit your own estimates to get an idea.
    
 

Cash on Jul 22, 2008 at 11:42 am ET

I was at the event and the merchandise booths were selling like crazy.  I would say 8K of the people purchased the event Afflcition shirt for $30 with most averaging $100 at the booth.  That's another quarter of a million plus in revenue.  Advertising wasn't over a million, they had a few billboards in NY and LA but nothing to warrant huge dollars, in fact they even sent out promo packs to fans for free to pass out. 

The bumb in Sales for there clothing line will far exceed a few million given the fact that 70% of the people at the event were wearing Affliction.  I was absolutely shocked at how many styles of shirts they have, because I didn't see two alike.  I don't where the stuff but I mustt say there were a few styles that were'nt too bad if you like wasting $50 on a shirt. 

If and a big "if" at that, they gave bonuses, I'm sure they would be incentive based on PPV buys like every boxing or UFC event.  Like most people I am curious as hell to find out what the PPV buys were.  The UFC really killed them here with the free show on Spike.

 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:01 pm ET
"If and a big "if" at that, they gave bonuses, I'm sure they would be incentive based on PPV buys like every boxing or UFC event."

Fedor made close to a guaranteed 1.5 million for this show, so the real payroll is at least 4.5 million. Also, nobody would have counted on ppv bonuses, because the ppv is expected to be non-existent. Something tells me that the rest of your speculation is also misinformed.
 

Cash on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:06 pm ET
I'm a CPA and make far money each month than you make a year.  Something tells me you are a gealous [cut]
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:30 pm ET
Sorry Cash. But I know for a fact that much of your post was nonsense. Therefore ,I have to assume the rest of it was just more nonsense.
 

brentwilliams2 on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:31 pm ET
I guess you don't need to know grammar or spelling to be a CPA these days...
 

MMAuthority on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:42 pm ET
Well I'm certainly not a CPA but I do own a few companies and also work in the "entertainment industry"...


But last time I checked "promotional packages" were a form of advertisment. And yes while certainly not as much as running a TV or radio spot on a regular basis, print add's still can amount to a pretty penny when adding up advertising costs...


Those werent simply "FREE" promotionals they sent out.. They had to pay for the artwork (graphic design), then pay for the print runs (actual material to be used such as fliers, banners, post cards etc.., then pay the freight charges to mail them out to everyone.. And thats just on the physical print add costs.. Then factor in the digital print add's they ran as well....

Do you think those banners on webpages were "free" ? Do you think those websites built around Affliction: Banned were free ? Do you know the going rate on an hourly basis for a good graphic designer and someone thats certified in C++, Microsoft, etc.. to build, host & maintain those sites ?? See internet advertising is just as big a budget as is TV, Radio or traditional print is... It all adds up in the end... No different..  
 

Cash on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:58 pm ET
It's far less expensive to have fans distribute promo-packs.  The cost of the materials is nominal if they know what they are doing and have it produced in China.  I have audited many companies with extensive advertising expense and I'm well aware that it can be costly.  However, Affliction didn't go crazy with any of the design.  To advertise (banners as you say) on Mmaweekly and Sherdog is pretty dirt cheap.  These sites aren't main stream yet and the number of hits is still relatively small.  The advertising push at the end was the most costly with TV ads on Spike etc... 



 

MMAuthority on Jul 23, 2008 at 8:21 am ET
LOL says you.....


Do you expect me to believe that these FANS actually spent time distributing these so called "Promo Packs" ??


How does that equate to far less expensive ?? They still had to pay for the production, manufacturing and distribution... Which again adds up.. It may not be 1.5 million total in advertising, however it is still "part" of advertising costs and as you claim to know, can be just as costly.. I claim it was more along the lines of wasted add space & cost's because it's target demographic simply werent interested in print add flyers (other than your average fan that offered to get the packages for the sake of getting them, only to keep them for themselves and pass a few out to friends for the sake of doing so)
 

You say these "banners" were cheap ??? I'll give you cheap in relative to MMA sites, but for all other purposes it's not CHEAP in any sense of the word. whatever the bottom line may be, it still cost as a part of "operating costs". And as I said before "it still adds up"


My refute to your claim is that I could see a 1.5 million add budget easily.. 1.5 million does not get you "ALOT" of target specific add slots in prime markets... thus the relatively poor advertising as a whole in terms of premier add slots.. 

I stand by the claim that they did a good job for what it's worth, however it is not a bankable bet in terms of longterm sustainability at this point.. They have a very shallow roster & one show in the books. UFC have the starters, the bench & the Injured Reserves on staff.. We'll see how they hold up in the coming months when planning for a card and one of their "stars" falls short due to injureis and they have to pull the fight for lack of roster space... 


And again I still saw the fights as alot of 1 sided matchups.. Everyone that was favored to win, simply won.. It was no big surprise.. The fights were pretty easy to call for what it was.. The only fight I saw remotely impressive in terms of competition was the Martin/Belfort fight.. I was impressed with how Terry was able to stand and trade with Vitor. He may have gotten KO'ed but he showed vast improvement in is striking and mobility. He had great head movement, great footwork, he put together some nice combos, and was the aggresor for the most part of the fight.. He simply got caught. He was alittle undersized compared to Vitor but he put up a gutsy performance none the less.. The Lindland fight was a bit of a letdown because he was favored to win but couldnt put him away..


Did anyone honestly think Rothewell stood a chance against Arlovski ?? Sure Arlovski looked good.. But it's hard not to when you dont fear the other guys striking and you know for a fact that he isnt looking to take you down when you throw... You put him back in there with a good wrestler/submission fighter and he will be just as tentative as he was in his previous fights after the Sylvia KO.. If he thinks he could get caught or put on his back and outwrestled he will simply look to keep his distance and poke away.. And I'm a HUGE Arlovski fan !!!!!!


Fedor outstruck Sylvia... Ohhh boy !!!!!! No big secret there.. Sylvia is very predictable and prone to getting caught early.. He comes out VERY slow and OPEN.. Did you think the Randy fight was a fluke ?? He came out wide open and SLOW like he always does.. Anyone with any halfway decent speed and hands can catch him in the opening segment of the fight.. He always looks to walk out and circle to his left.. He was more affraid of Fedor rushing in and putting him on his back early that he walked out with his hands low and reacted to the fakeshot/overhand right.. ala Couture and bam on the button.. Fedor is just athletic enough to come in and bang it out when he hits the ground.. Arlovski did the same thing in their first fight and damn near in their second fight.. Only an idiot would not be able to pick that out and use it in their gameplan.. Also because Fedor fought Sylvia he now has some credibility back.. But I say put him in there with a more athletic fighter and see how he does.. Arlovski would be the better of the 2 but not the be all end all.. Couture would not beat Fedor & again I was a BIG Couture fan.. He simply doesnt have the reflex timing that Fedor posses.. He will get caught just like Chuck did to him and it will be lights out again..







 






     


    







   


 
  

 

tonikred on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:29 pm ET
       CPA  who  makes  all  this  money   but   mis-spells   JEALOUS .   in  the  words  of  the  ufc-released  Travis  Lutter....I  say   BULLSH*T  !
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:32 pm ET
No kidding. The boy is obviously a fool.
 

Cash on Jul 22, 2008 at 12:37 pm ET
[deleted]
 

kamura5 on Jul 22, 2008 at 1:59 pm ET
Cash,

We are impressed. Thank you for sharing. Now, grow up!

From one professional to another.

Changing the topic, I am really impressed with Fedor...his peaceful, happy demeanor
hides an animal. . . same can be said for A. Silva. . . kind of refreshing.


 

Jason on Jul 22, 2008 at 2:35 pm ET
Cash -

If you continue to post in this manner you will lose your posting privileges.
 

larrinho on Jul 22, 2008 at 3:53 pm ET
Travis Lutter was released from the UFC??
 

Unorthobox on Jul 22, 2008 at 7:08 pm ET
UFC 59 pulled in 2.1 mil in tickets, but only had 531k in reported fighter salaries.
 

gimme on Jul 23, 2008 at 9:29 am ET
Yahoo is reporting that Atencio claims that PPV buys were way better than the initial speculations and were definitely over 100,000 buys.
 

cain91077 on Jul 23, 2008 at 11:08 am ET
I beleive the T-shirt guy,that Affliction did over 100k buys.I went to the affliction website to find a bar to watch at(because im a poor college student and 50 bucks is a lot of ramen!lol) and the list was very long of bars showing the event.I read somewhere that bars pay by capacity.Also im in nashville and the amount of people at the bar to see Fedor was amazing for this town.A guy like Fedor doesnt really need marketing,you dont have to market the guys like him or anderson silva,even though the ufc is backing the hell out of him.To be marketed as number 1 p4p fighter can actually take away some of the legitimacy of the claim.To just go out and destroy youre competition and then act like you dont even want to talk about it makes you into a legend.Thats whats happened to Fedor.I honestly cant say who is the best,but I know i like watching Fedor more than Silva,just because with Silva you know youre going to see mostly striking and more than likely a ko,or tko.Hes good on the ground but more comfotable on his feet.With Fedor,who knows?The guy can kill you from anywhere and hes more dangerous on his back than anyone in mma right now.They had to pay Timmy 800k to fight Fedor and they paid Fedor 300k.So Tim earned 22,222$ per second he lasted in that fight.Wonder how much they will have to pay the next guy Fedor faces.How much will these guys take for a loss?lmao!
 

HandsomeTim on Jul 23, 2008 at 11:40 am ET
I have a feeling that the buys will not be massive but are going to be over 100000 maybe 125 or 130.  It probably would have been much higher if the UFC didn't put together the UFN fight card on free tv.
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:30 pm ET
Anything over 50,000 ppv buys will surprise me. 25,000 seems more realistic.
 

xsaavedra on Jul 23, 2008 at 2:40 pm ET
Fador was great which is the only reason people wanted to watch, other then that it was a boring show cause Fador is the only real draw, the rest of the fighters are old news, Hope this guys come up with new up an coming fighters cause this old man card isnt going to cut it in future events
 

xsaavedra on Jul 23, 2008 at 3:08 pm ET
These guys need to earn the fans and the fighter instead of trying to buy there way into the core of MMA, the only person at Afflication thats ever train or been in a fight is the VP, the founders are far from fighters or even guys that enjoy training , Two of them are very nice guys and other is a total ass so in other words total posers, and Trumps support is paid for, his not giving them any money it more like they are paying him to use the name, maybe they should try bring up there own fighter instead of taking all the UFC left overs
 

ThonolansGhost on Jul 28, 2008 at 5:08 pm ET
According to the Wrestling Observer, it looks likes I was correct when I said the 2.1 million dollar gate was bullsh*t. It seems they bought $500,000 worth of tickets from themselves and gave them away. Admittedly, I'm surprised that they even managed a legitimate live gate of 1.6 million.
 

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