Here’s the rest of last week’s interview with Davecat, world famous doll husband and iDollator. Click here to check out Davecat’s blog (a great resource for all things doll, robot, gynoid, android, you name it - this man knows his shit), and click here to be directed to part one of our dialogue.
Tell me a bit about your interest in Gynoids.
For as long as I can remember, I’ve been enthralled with artifice as a whole - I’ve always been drawn to things that resemble something from nature, yet aren’t actually natural. I’m completely in love with the whole Sixties-era obsession with plastic, for one. I believe two of humanity’s greatest achievements are developments in robotics, and the replication of things that Nature usually creates, and Synthetik humans are a fine combination of those two things. Creating robots in general supports my philosophy of every man being his own god, but when you wrap all that technology up in a very humanlike appearance, it’s easier for Organik humans to embrace the idea of robots as valid members of society. That’s why I always use the terms ‘Synthetiks’ and ‘Organiks’ - it’s my hope that in the future, people will see Androids and Gynoids as simply another type of human. Although they’re not meat-based like we are, they’re human as well, in their own fashion.
As far as a partner is concerned, ultimately I would prefer to have a Gynoid. One of the important differences is that a Gynoid doesn’t judge. Society kinda goes out of its way with its needless and excessively judgmental behaviour - you can check out most peoples’ general opinions of iDollators and technosexuals all over the Internet, or really anything that can be categorized as being ‘out of the ordinary’, for example. With an artificial partner, they would accept you for who you were completely and entirely.
Also, with me being an isolationist in general, I much rather prefer to be in the company of individuals, Organik or not, that I can relate to; failing that, I prefer to be alone. I’ve always said that being lonely is an awful situation that no-one should have to go through, but being alone is wrongly stigmatized and highly underrated. Having a Gynoid partner prevents loneliness; however, selfish as it may sound, I wouldn’t have residual feelings of guilt on the rare occasions that I chose not to make conversation or interact with her.
A Gynoid would have a predictability that I’d find really appealing. Well, predictability dependent on the level of artificial intelligence that she had, obviously. But there’d be a consistency that would be completely reassuring. Of course, the question arises that, despite the best programming available, would there be a lack of real love? That’s one for the philosophers, but frankly, I’d rather invest my feelings in a Synthetik being that won’t intentionally manipulate my emotions to serve their own ends.
Honestly, I’d say it’s a bit of both. The fact that she’s an artificial person has an enormous appeal to me. A friend of mine once asked me if I’m so keen on having a robotic partner, why would I prefer one that has artificial skin that makes her look like an Organik, as opposed to one that looks more blatantly robotic, i.e, like one of Hajime Sorayama’s creations? I guess you could just chalk it up to an insidious streak, but having a wife that, for all intents and purposes, appears to be Organik until further scrutiny inevitably happens, is just a hell of an idea to me. Apart from not really wanting to cuddle up to a cold and hard metal body, a Gynoid having that sort of obvious robotic appearance would just be too straightforward for my tastes. Plus, having to constantly wipe off all those fingerprints and smudge marks off her would be a hassle!
But yeah, I have to admit, there is the control aspect. But on the other hand, there are a lot of people in (traditional) relationships who would probably love to have complete control over their spouse or partner, and either they can’t cos you just don’t treat another human being like that, or they do exert some controlling aspect, with whatever degree of messed-up-edness that occurs. With a Synthetik, cheating simply wouldn’t be an issue, which is a guarantee that most Organiks can’t provide. And with the type person that I am, I wouldn’t be cheating either, as there’d be no ‘need’ for me to do so if my Gynoid was faithful, which she would be, as she’d be a Gynoid. The problem solves itself!
You recently posted a meme on your blog in which you said in 6 years you’d like to be in Toronto. Why is that?
Ever since my parents and I first walked down Yonge st back in the mid-Eighties, I’ve been madly in love with Toronto. The mentality of Canadians as a whole seems to be more accepting of so-called ‘different’ behaviour than your average American, and in a cosmopolitan city like Toronto, being unique is no big deal. The architecture is fantastic, the people are friendly - as a matter of fact, last time I was there with friends, I was spotted by two different people on two separate occasions, due to ‘Guys and Dolls’! The functioning mass-transportation system is a bonus - it’s assumed that if you live in the Motor City, you have and can afford a car, so Metro Detroit has pretty much stamped its mass-transportation system into the ground - and there’s no end of things to see and do. Plus, there’s a Japanese restaurant practically every other block, which makes me all kinds of happy. And hungry.
Toronto is a big city, but it’s a mild-mannered city, and whenever I come up to visit, it’s that much harder for me to leave. All told, I’d probably move to Missisauga though, as it’s close to T.O, and in doing that, I’d hopefully avoid paying crazy T.O prices for an apartment…
Well, when I say ‘Doll convention’, it makes it sound a lot more organized than what it is, but it’s a lot less to say than ‘a bunch of Doll owners hanging around and talking shop, followed by a dinner someplace’. The first ‘Doll convention’ I attended was back in 2001, where about ten to twelve of us from the Forum flew out to the old Abyss studios in southern California, met with Matt McMullen and the staff, walked round the studio with huge smiles on our faces for a couple of hours, then met up at a restaurant and discussed Dolls until late evening. Loads of fun, as you probably suspect. Whenever I refer to iDollator get-togethers these days, it’s basically a handful of us that are in the metro Detroit area, although we’ve had appearances from people in Canada, Massachussetts, Illinois… east-coast people, mostly, that are willing to hop in a car and drive a few hours to speak openly with like-minded souls about a subject they love intensely.
Doll owners run the gamut, naturally, but they’re all fab people. Although there are a couple of guys that could be called raging perverts, quite a few iDollators have Organik wives who are obviously open-minded. For the most part, the majority of iDollators that I’ve run into are single blokes who grew fed up with playing the dating game, and are making a decision in their lives to no longer be lonely. Maybe not all of them have given such extensive personalities to their ladies as I’ve done with Sidore, but each Doll means something extremely special to the person that shares his life with her. I’ve always said that Doll husbands are romantic idealists, and it’s true. We’re seeking in our Dolls what we can’t necessarily find or have with Organik partners.
Apart from being recognised in Toronto, as I’d previously mentioned, I don’t really get spotted a lot! At least, not where someone’s come up to me, asking if I was That Guy on TV with That Doll. Although months ago I was once seen at my bank, which, as you’d suspect, would be kinda disconcerting. The bloke did ask if he could have a photo taken with me, though.
I’m somewhat open about being an iDollator when I’m out-of-doors; I don’t think it’s really something that a person should be ashamed of, but a lot of people aren’t as open-minded as they want you to think they are. I mean, I’m not exactly walking around with a sandwich board that has ‘DOLL HUSBAND’ on both sides in bold print, but if I meet a person in a non-Internet context and get to know them over the course of a few months, I’ll clue them in to my blog, and then proceed from there. If they’re still curious, I’m more than happy to explain, but I don’t press the issue.
I’ve never lost a job because of my status as a Doll husband, but the fact that I am one has crossed my mind as far as seeking different employment. As the job market is currently rubbish in this state (and pretty much everywhere), it’s hard to tell if being an iDollator will have any influence on being able to get something new. I’d honestly hope that a potential employer would realize that has nothing to do with qualifications, but you know how people are… Maybe I just need to get a job working with a Doll manufacturer!
I’m not an optimist by nature - I think that most people in contemporary society only get out of bed every day because they believe themselves to be smarter/better-looking/more well-off than everyone else - so although the technology for Synthetik companions is gradually improving, it’ll still be a while before having a Synthetik partner is ‘accepted’ by mainstream society. Just because it’s not accepted, though, doesn’t mean that there aren’t going to be brave individuals willing to speak up and say that having a Synthetik partner is a legitimate choice. With Dolls, admittedly it’ll be a more difficult argument, but once there are iDollators that are seen out in the world with an Android or Gynoid partner, that’ll definitely get the ball rolling. I hate to be obvious and use the comparison to the gay rights movement, but publicly coming out of the iDollator closet will run pretty similar to that, I believe.
Then, there’s the whole ‘uncanny valley’ hurdle. Back in the Seventies, roboticist Masahiro Mori came up with a theory that there is a point where you can design a humanoid robot where it looks like an Organik human, but if you detail it too much like an Organik, the point dips into the ‘uncanny valley’, where the robot resembles a human, but something’s not quite right about it. Something like C-3PO may look human, but is instantly recognised as a robot. Someone like one of the Actroid series of Gynoids looks like an Organik at first glance, but may have a slightly-less-than-human appearance, or may not have all the body language cues that Organiks do, which can put some people off.
Personally, I don’t believe in the uncanny valley - roboticist David Hansen himself said that the theory is ‘really pseudoscientific, but people treat it like it is science’. I’ve always said that it’s psychosomatic, and all down to the person who perceives the Synthetik. I mean, animals don’t have the same body language as humans do, but we can guess with pretty reasonable accuracy what they’re trying to convey. Arguably, an animal’s body language would be even further removed from an Organik person’s, as compared to a Synthetik person, who’d be programmed to behave like a human. So once Synthetik humans start becoming commonplace in society, there’s going be an initial backlash — progress tends to run into that a lot — but eventually mainstream society will recognise them for what they are, and grow accustomed to them.
Recently, a Japanese robotics company debuted a walking, talking Gynoid (inelegantly) named HRP-4C, designed primarily for being a fashion model. Of course posts were written about her on various blogs and websites, with the usual disparaging comments about ‘uncanny valley’, and ‘Japan is weird’, and ‘that thing is creepy’, and etc. There was this one blog post that simply detailed the facts and figures, mentioned the critiques that some people had about a Gynoid runway model, and brilliantly ended the post with ‘Nobody though much of the first Toyotas, either.’
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