Clara Hemphill

Clara Hemphill

Posted: July 15, 2009 11:07 AM

Do Charter Schools Help or Hurt?

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When officials at P.S. 123, an ordinary neighborhood school in Harlem, were forced to call the police this month to keep a charter school from taking over its classrooms, I was reminded how charter schools make it harder for neighborhood schools to succeed.

Some time ago, I visited P.S. 42 in the Bronx, just a block away from a charter school, the Carl C. Icahn Charter School. Both schools serve poor children, and neither school has an entrance exam. However, the charter school gets children whose parents know enough to sign up for a lottery in April - and who know in the spring where they will be living in the fall. The neighborhood school gets lots of children from nearby homeless shelters, who come and go during the year. The charter school has a majority of African-American children, most of whom speak English at home. P.S. 42 has a majority of Latino children, many of whom speak only Spanish. Teachers say children who can't meet the academic or behavioral requirements of the charter school are encouraged to leave and wind up at P.S. 42, which has a large number of children receiving special education services. Despite these challenges, P.S. 42 received an "A" on its latest school report card. Still, teachers say their job would be a lot easier if all the schools in the neighborhood took their fair share of the most needy and vulnerable kids.

P.S. 123 in Harlem - where the skirmish over space broke out -- is a fairly successful school that benefits from strong leadership, an active parent body, and support from a number of elected officials. When the Harlem Success Academy II, a charter school that shares the P.S. 123 building, hired movers to remove furniture from several P.S. 123 classrooms so the charter school could expand, teachers occupied the classrooms and halted the takeover, as reported in the New York Daily News. A Department of Education spokeswoman says there was a misunderstanding and the charter school was ordered to stop.

In poor neighborhoods with terrible local schools, charters may serve as an escape for some children whose parents can navigate the admissions process, much as "gifted and talented" programs serve middle class parents who want to escape what they consider inadequate local schools. But what we need is a strategy to improve schools for all children - not an escape for a few.

 
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I know for a fact that Charter schools work. Look, the bottom line is that the (children) should be top priority. We have so much mess in the system until I feel so sorry for today's children. The classes are to big and to much for one teacher. We now give the children anything to eat, we have dumb down P.E. and now have in the last 20 years the biggest elementry kids I've ever seen in my lifetime. First, we have to remember that our children are first, and we may even try to separate the girls from the boys because we are now seeing our male youth drop out at an alarming rate, this right here need to tell america the no child left behind was clearly a joke. Charter,schools work because the classes are smaller and the kids can have a little one on one with their teacher, and we need more male teachers, get out and recruit good teachers and pay them a decent wage. The reason why I said even separating the boys and girls would help because boys learn differently from girls and can get distracted easily and will get bored, they start off just as smart as the girls but between 10 and 12 something happens we need help so we can help our youth.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 PM on 07/15/2009
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The results of the Charter school movement are mixed at best. The real question that should be asked is whether or not all children will get a quality education based on this mix. District administrators love charter schools, since they have the same mandates as regular schools without having to micro-manage them (they can micro-manage themselves).

Yet if you are a fan of reaching out to all children, including those with special needs, we have to really look hard at the charter system. Is this merely a place where the "diamonds in the rough" are plucked out and the rest left to fend for themselves in the wilderness?

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 07/15/2009

My understanding of charter schools is that they use methods like smaller classes, ect. that everyone knows should be in ALL schools. Seems like the education establishment has to be bribed or threatened to adopt new methods of teaching. It's the 21st century people-let's move beyond 18th century curriculum.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 07/15/2009

Charter schools in New Orleans are just as you suggest, they cherry pick students and push out any special needs kids. I do think you are confusing Gifted and Talented programs with magnet schools or maybe it just works different down here. Here in New Orleans the Gifted and Talented program is in any school that has a student that fits the criteria. I work in very poor schools and am a Talent teacher in the G/T program. I go to six schools and work in very small groups with children gifted in visual art. My students are all lower income and a mixture of races. My classes are like having private art lesson. Most of our teacher in the program have MFA's and are working artist. It is a great program and also includes theater and music as well as math and English.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 07/15/2009

Thanks for the anecdote, but it's not convincing to me. I know when a charter started in NC, the public schools looked at it as their dumping ground. They would tell low-achieving students and their parents about the new charter school and how it would better meet their needs.

So, the new charter school was made up of half low-performing students with behavior and learning problems and the other half was sort of alternative people who moved to the area from other places and didn't really fit in the red-neck culture at the local public school where kids get harassed and beat up if they aren't into hunting and pick-up trucks and football.

We have a choice of 100 different restaurants to go to. Why shouldn't we have a choice of 100 different schools to send our children to? Rich people already have school choice- they can send their children to private school or homeschool or move to a different neighborhood. It's poor families who can't afford those options who need different choices.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 07/15/2009

That is why vouchers are such a good idea. It will give poorer students more choices and better education. The rich already send their kids to private schools and do it without the vouchers. If private schools are good enough for the Obamas, then why not everyone else who wants to attend? The reason is the teacher's union.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 07/15/2009

Vouchers are the worst conservative idea ever. Public money to private schools? No. Private schools can fend for themselves. Any decent private school I've encountered has the means to provide scholarships to low income families, and other families sacrifice to send their kids there. Vouchers would be $1,000 to $2,000, from what I understand, and that doesn't begin to cover private school annual tuition. If people can afford if except that little amount, they can squeeze out the rest. Private schools can pick and choose the students they take or reject, and are not subject to state standards. So no, they should not get state money.
You have choice, it seems that you want the taxpayers to fund your choice instead of you coughing up the dough yourself.
No thanks.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 07/15/2009

I live in WI and most charter schools here seem to be the dumping grounds for kids whose behavior or attendance has become an issue or have been kicked out of public schools. We do have a school voucher program also. What I have learned about that is, to get the state funds, the private schools (at least the ones my sister visited for her son) are piling up the kids in there now. She said from the ones she visited, the student to teacher ratio is only 1-3 students better than at a regular public school. I grew up attending private schools since 4th grade and the small classroom sizes were a big benefit. If the voucher programs are going to interfere with that, then the admission process concerning that should be reviewed. If I were paying for a private school for my child and the school started sacrificing the class sizes for the $$$, then that would have to be an issue brought to the school, because I would not want my child to remain. My child currently attends a public school that has a SAGE (Student Achievement Guarantee in Education) program. From grades K5 - 3rd, class sizes are no larger than 15 students to 1 teacher.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 07/17/2009
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this article shows that we need a handicap general a 'la Harrison Bergeron

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:09 PM on 07/15/2009

I believe that studies done on the Indiana charter schools indicate that not only do students in the charter schools improve their performance but the students that remained in the public schools improved as well. I could be wrong on the state, but I do know that these studies are out there. Since the creation of the department of education we have dramatically increased the amount of money we spend on education, but we have failed to make any real improvements. Charter schools may not be the answer by themselves, but they can be part of an answer to help all kids get a quality education. It would be wonderful if we could improve the quality of the public schools here in NYC, but many of the things that make charter schools better for students would be impossible to implement in the public school because of concessions won by the unions regarding hours.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 AM on 07/15/2009

There is no evidence, no study, nothing that conclusively says charter schools are better than public schools. In fact, there is great evidence showing that charter schools are on par or perform worse than public schools. Obviously that will depend on the school's charter, the state in which it is chartered, the community, the parents of the student body and so on. There is no hard and fast rule that proves one is better than the other and in fact more and more studies are beginning to provide definitive evidence against that notion. I agree with you that charter schools should be a part of a larger, multipronged solution to our education problems, but for us to approach those problems with real solutions, we need to avoid these misguided and misleading beliefs that charters are by their nature better or private schools are by their nature better when the vast body of studies, though there are many who work to keep them concealed, is showing no inherent advantage.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 07/15/2009

Could you show me the overwhelming studies because as far as I have seen, the studies actually support charter schools at a ratio of 15:1. Even the studies that come to the conclusion that the schools perform the same as their public counterparts acknowledge the fact that they do so at a fraction of the cost. I genuinely do like to research the issue because in all honesty this shouldn't be partisan and we should all be focusing on improving the education and educational opportunities for children. I am also interested in who is keeping these studies concealed and what the nefarious motive could be? I do know that Duncan is trying to quietly kill the program in DC, but I haven't heard of people suppressing studies or what possible motivation they would have for doing so.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 PM on 07/15/2009

I think I heard this before-at an NEA meeting.

    Reply    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 07/15/2009

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