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7 December 2009  Article Rating

While a shadow minister, Tony Abbott was never afraid of speaking bluntly in a manner that was at odds with Coalition policy.

So as I am a humble backbencher I am sure he won't complain if I tell a few home truths about the farce that the Coalition's policy, or lack of policy, on climate change has descended into.

First, let's get this straight. You cannot cut emissions without a cost. To replace dirty coal fired power stations with cleaner gas fired ones, or renewables like wind let alone nuclear power or even coal fired power with carbon capture and storage is all going to cost money.

To get farmers to change the way they manage their land, or plant trees and vegetation all costs money.

Somebody has to pay.

So any suggestion that you can dramatically cut emissions without any cost is, to use a favourite term of Mr Abbott, "bullshit." Moreover he knows it.

The whole argument for an emissions trading scheme as opposed to cutting emissions via a carbon tax or simply by regulation is that it is cheaper - in other words, electricity prices will rise by less to achieve the same level of emission reductions.

The term you will see used for this is "least cost abatement".

It is not possible to criticise the new Coalition policy on climate change because it does not exist. Mr Abbott apparently knows what he is against, but not what he is for.

Second, as we are being blunt, the fact is that Tony and the people who put him in his job do not want to do anything about climate change. They do not believe in human caused global warming. As Tony observed on one occasion "climate change is crap" or if you consider his mentor, Senator Minchin, the world is not warming, it's cooling and the climate change issue is part of a vast left wing conspiracy to deindustrialise the world.

Now politics is about conviction and a commitment to carry out those convictions. The Liberal Party is currently led by people whose conviction on climate change is that it is "crap" and you don't need to do anything about it. Any policy that is announced will simply be a con, an environmental figleaf to cover a determination to do nothing. After all, as Nick Minchin observed, in his view the majority of the Party Room do not believe in human caused global warming at all. I disagree with that assessment, but many people in the community will be excused for thinking the leadership ballot proved him right.

Remember Nick Minchin's defense of the Howard Government's ETS was that the Government was panicked by the polls and therefore didn't really mean it.

Tony himself has, in just four or five months, publicly advocated the blocking of the ETS, the passing of the ETS, the amending of the ETS and, if the amendments were satisfactory, passing it, and now the blocking of it.

His only redeeming virtue in this remarkable lack of conviction is that every time he announced a new position to me he would preface it with "Mate, mate, I know I am a bit of a weather vane on this, but....."

Third, there is a major issue of integrity at stake here and Liberals should reflect very deeply on it. We have an Opposition whose current leadership dismisses the Howard Government's ETS policy as being just a political ploy. We have an Opposition Leader who has in the space of a few months held every possible position on the issue, each one contradicting the position he expressed earlier. And finally we have an Opposition which negotiated amendments to the Rudd Government's ETS, then reached agreement on those amendments and then, a week later, reneged on the agreement.

Many Liberals are rightly dismayed that on this vital issue of climate change we are not simply without a policy, without any prospect of having a credible policy but we are now open to the charge that we are also without integrity. We have given our opponents the irrefutable, undeniable evidence that we cannot be trusted to keep our word or maintain a consistent position on the issue of climate change.

Not that anyone would doubt it, but I will be voting for the ETS legislation when it returns in February and if my colleagues have any sense they will do so as well. If the legislation is passed, incorporating as it does the amendments Ian MacFarlane negotiated with Penny Wong, then the issue will be settled. It is manifestly in the national interest and in the interest of the Liberal Party that it be so.

 

 


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Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:24 AM
http://topsy.com/tb/tinyurl.com/ylk9f7p
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:30 AM
Social comments and analytics for this post
Stu
# Stu
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:30 AM
Thanks Malcolm. Keep making noise! Maybe you can convince some more of your colleagues in the senate to get this thing over the line.
Aron
# Aron
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:35 AM
This is so true. Someone's got to bash some heads together around here. Keep up the good work!
Richard
# Richard
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:37 AM
Malcolm,

There is no doubt that we need to do something, but I and many other Liberal voters are not sure Rudd's ETS is the best way of doing it. It is insulting to suggest, as the PM has done, that if you oppose the ETS you are a climate change sceptic. This illogical view implicates Bob Brown and the Greens are climate change sceptics because they voted against the ETS. The Liberals must come up with a policy, but your "straight talk" does the non-Labor cause no good and retards our ability to have a rational internal debate about an alternative.
Clio
# Clio
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:43 AM
Great posting. Clear and concise. The best role you could play in this Malcolm would be as an independent in the Senate. I'm afraid the Liberal party is too divided on this. Abbot's bounce in the polls shows that there are still many in our society who believe we can just ignore the train light at the other end of the tunnel!
AB
# AB
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:43 AM
Good on you. Hopefully more of your colleagues look into themselves for a bit of conviction on this.
Ric
# Ric
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:45 AM
Richard - I think part of Malcolm's point is that the party's "ability to have a rational internal debate about an alternative" is already proven to be deficient.
James Glover
# James Glover
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:46 AM
It is true that it is the Opposition's role is to oppose or question the government at every turn but occasionally in large matters such as war the govt and opposition come to an agreement on a policy acceptable to both - at least in the spirit of compromise. Climate Change is just such an issue. Yes there are lots of people out there who think its all "left wing bullshit" (like my 77yo father) but they will, unfortunately, hold that view regardless of the evidence. For Tony Abbott to exploit this issue for short term political gain is egregious stupidity and damages us all in the long run and if you care about it, the Liberal Party as well.

Keep up the fight Mr Turnbull. Your country needs you!
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:46 AM
Is everything always so black & white in your world? Are your comments constructive? Really? Or are you throwing nothing more than an articulate tantrum? Personal attacks on the opposition with different views are the type of school yard tactics found at my son's primary school. If you want to gain my respect - Play the ball not the man!
simon bedak
# simon bedak
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:46 AM
Egotistical has been.
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:47 AM
http://ozpolitik.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/newspoll-5/
glenn
# glenn
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:48 AM
love it
bring on the next lib leader
Tony
# Tony
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:48 AM
You are the only one in your party speaking sense Malcolm.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Being an effective opposition doesn't mean just being disagreeable. Sometimes bipartisan consensus is called for.

Abbott is indeed full of bulls$it, and many of us long term liberal voters appreciate you calling him out on it.
Danielle Ecuyer
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:49 AM
Excellent comments. The truth about what is happening in the Liberal Party needs to be told. The financial reality of how to reduce emissions needs to be told.
Go Malcolm
Alan
# Alan
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:52 AM
Malcolm - sour grapes comes to mind. Give me a break. You banter has as much BS in it as anyone who wants to take bat and ball and not play the game. Grow up - the people of Australia have spoken (seen today's opinion poll ... the BEST opposition leader support BEFORE your time).

Your leadership is over. It is good to have Tony leading the party - we have a point of difference and not more Rudd shadows.

Do us all a favour - get out of the parliament and stop earning my tax payer dollars.
antonio
# antonio
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:53 AM
Maybe Malcolm if you did not pander to the labor party and had evoked a national debate on the ets and bringing in a new tax then you wouldn't be on the backbench would you?

Abbot may be a lot of things but at least he is a real alternative to rudd rather than a cliche.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:55 AM
When the LNP splits into the Conservatives and the Liberals, the Liberals will have my membership and vote.
Alan
# Alan
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:55 AM
Well said Antonio.

Malcolm - you were a leader of a great party. You were also part of bringing it to its knees.

Malcolm - in the words of someone far more popular than myself: "it's time to go - you are the weakest link - goodbye!"
Barry
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:56 AM
Agree Malcolm entirely, unfortunately for Australia the long,diffilcult and complicated work that Penny Wong did on this important national issue has been sidelined. Abbott should be seen for what he is a political thug who will duck and weave on the issue to try and score political points. This should be a matter of National/International Importance and as such deserves Bi-partisan support which you gave. And Richard no the ETS in its current form was a framrwork tp get the ETS rolling and give time to massive polluters to change the form of energy they used in electricity production. AS Penny Wong said it was not a 'Ferrari' but could be adjuested over time as countires around the world tweeked up their carbon targets. Thanks for this post Malcolm.
Richard
# Richard
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:02 AM
Ric - I don't think that the ALP and their union colleagues are entirely supportive of an ETS. Friends of mine who are Labor Party members say there are divergent views at a branch level, but that debate has been shut down by the powers that be. At least the Libs are discussing options.

Barry - If $123 billion for polluters is your idea of an important first step on carbon emissions, we will have to agree to disagree.
anon61
# anon61
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:03 AM
Malcolm,

Do you realise that you are a LIBERAL Member of Parliament? You need to start learning the meaning of being a member of the Liberal Party. Having your own opinion is one thing. But openly going after members of your own party is unforgivable...
Dave Gaukroger
# Dave Gaukroger
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:03 AM
Thanks for letting your integrity guide you on this issue Malcolm. Climate Change needs to be addressed and we need more than Tony Abbott's empty rhetoric.

What a shame that the Howard government hadn't addressed this issue years ago when the cost of action would have been so much less.
Ray
# Ray
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:04 AM
You are a bad LOSER Mr Turnbull go back to Private Enterprise where you were a WINNER
Tim
# Tim
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:05 AM
You should quit the party before you embark on a public campaign to destroy it.
Tom Pynnonen
# Tom Pynnonen
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:05 AM
Malcolm speaks the truth. You cannot trust Abbott or his cronies. Talk about Kenneally being a puppet; whose puppet is Abbott?
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:07 AM
tell me Malcolm...with yours and Rudd's great big tax bringing costing us more...who wins...where does the extra money you take from us go? If it really is a big tax...are we going to see a tax cut somewhere else? Lower the GST? Cut income tax rates?
John Waller
# John Waller
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:09 AM
Malcolm,

It's time to shut up and let Tony get on with leading the Liberal Party and winning the next election.

You've had your turn. Your party has said thanks but no thanks.
Lou minter
# Lou minter
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:09 AM
Oh for heavens sake. Malcolm, you were upset when your model for a Republic was dismissed and you are upset now because you are dismissed once again. Malcolm, unclench yours fists, stop stamping your feet and stop behaving like a spoiled brat. Be quiet and let your party get it's act together.
Graeme
# Graeme
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:09 AM
Malcolm

This is in the first instance not about the reality of climate change, it is about the appropriateness of Rudds ETS as the appropriate solution.

You and Rudd are arrogantly out of touch with public opinion - we the people need to understand the detail and implications of Rudds ETS - you dont vote for what you dont understand!

Sending the ETS to a senate committee for review was the simple solution for the opposition, pushing the legislation out past Copenhagen and giving everyone including the public more time to effectively understand and consider it.

I am a Wentworth resident who has supported you in the past but your performance on this issue and this extraordinary and pathetic white anting effort by you has put that to an immediate end.

You are out of touch and out of line.
Peter
# Peter
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:12 AM
As usual, you're hell bent on getting your own way like a typical spoilt brat, and couldn't care less about anyone else. Clearly you've now made your bed as far as your political future is concerned, with your environmental concerns I suspect running as deep as reading the writing on the wall as far as retaining your own "green" seat, you're determined on bringing the rest of the Liberal Party down with you.

I'm all for industry and us consumers cleaning up our act, but let's face it, the scientific "proof" on our level of impact on climate change - hot or cold - is not clear cut. What I can't believe is that somone of your apparent intellect is willing to adopt the line that a wopping big tax is going to fix the problem.

Never mind Peter Costello - YOU look like becoming the greatest Prime Minister we never had, simply because you can't keep your ego in check. You had such potential - I can't believe you've descended to this.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:12 AM
Good on you Malcolm. Glad to see the Libs still have some sanity tucked away on the back benches.
Allyson
# Allyson
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:13 AM
Sounds like a case of sour grapes. Malcolm, remember one thing: your not leader anymore, so but out!!
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:14 AM
Good on you Malcolm! Unfortunately you joined the wrong party.
Garbo
# Garbo
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:16 AM
We need action on climate change. Liberal party has no future unless they become serious about this issue.
Moreover, this issue is more important than the party. So hopefully, other liberal MP's and senators will continue to put pressure on the skeptics to act in the interest of the nation rather than simply serve their own beliefs.
will
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:16 AM
Mr Turnbull,

I'll preface this by saying I strongly disagree with most of your policy, economics and taxation in particular. That said I believe many of the above comments were entirely correct vis a vie the Liberal Party's needing a cohesive approach to being in opposition.
It is quite obvious that Mr Abbott is there because John the Baptist cannot let go. You know better then most what Howard wanted and he hadn't yet accomplished all of it. So, when Abbott is defeated at the next election and Hockey makes his play for the leadership make sure you're still there to push the climate change agenda in the Party Room, someone in that party has to pull the collective head out of the sand so the new generations of Australians will consider the Liberal Party a serious opposition.
As I said, I do not agree with most of your or indeed the Liberal Party as a wholes policy, but I am also very concerned at the idea of a one party Australia. Make climate change a point the incumbent government will have to make politically competitive policy decisions and please don't be afraid to spend on it,
regards,
W. Maguire
Patricia
# Patricia
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:18 AM
Keep it up Malcolm. The liberal party needs a real leader who has vision for this country. I know like everyone that the ETS was not perfect but we all need to start this job somewhere. No one is saying it will stay in this format for the next 50 to 100 years but its a start on the road. The loss of 10 years means our country is that far behind change and the new economies of this world. We will end up a third rate country unless we embrace the change. Just like the beginning of industrialization those that moved with it were the power houses of the future. So we must go the next stage so we can have a future economy that is prosperous and adaptable.
Chris
# Chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:19 AM
Your a farce now Malcolm, you have no alternate vision for Australia you had the chance to lead Australia to be something great.

An ETS for a country that would reduce global emissions by less than 1% is stupid and horrendously inefficient - To be honest I'm not sure why you support Kevin Rudd's money-go-round.

If you were serious about tackling our emissions footprint the targets would be much higher, the current targets are too low to have any meaningful impact anyway so what is the point in spending 126 Billion to achieve nothing, I'd much rather we'd have done double the effort and actually achieved something (however minor it would be).
Doug Matthews
# Doug Matthews
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:19 AM
M.T Stop your dummy spitting serve the party you joined to help the nation or resign.
Verity
# Verity
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:20 AM
At last, someone who shows integrity and isn't afraid to speak out against the current "bullshit" of the party! Keep it up, Malcolm. Turn the disappointments of the past few weeks into positive outcomes. People are turning away in droves from negative, fear based commentary and strategies used by people to promote and defend "minority" viewpoints. Just watch the criticism of this post as evidence!
Realist
# Realist
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:20 AM
You should go join Labor instead of having a dummy spit. The only constant in the world is change, and it is extraordinarily arrogant to think that humans can do anything to stop it.

The ETS is flawed and a load of crap, hence why everyone except for Labor voted against it.

Abbott has the balls to raise nuclear energy as an answer and you didn't. Fact is, nuclear energy and the soon coming mass-produced electric cars are going to fix any problems with air pollution, which is much more important than "carbon emissions". It's the free market solution, if only the government allows enterprise to count nuclear as an option.
CB
# CB
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:20 AM
I am an avid Labor voter, but have also been torn to be a supporter of you Malcolm (as a wentworth resident) and was very sad to see you out. Your rationality and sensitivity in leadership was great to see. Best of luck with future ventures. Keep fighting the good fight- and the man with the ball now will drop it in due course, he is a ticking time bomb of hysterical nay-saying political mishaps with no manners and a tempestuous disposition. The game is almost not worth playing when he is team captain.
Mick Bell
# Mick Bell
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:20 AM
I agree Mr Turnbull . However you are showing signs Mark Latham like qualities at present. You need to reign in that famous temper of yours.
Mick Bell, QLD
Sue
# Sue
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:21 AM
I've been a conservative voter all my voting years. I feel as though my opinions don't matter to anyone in the Liberal party at the moment. I certainly don't feel like voting for any of the current Liberal members. If I thought an ETS would serve any real purpose (apart from taxing me to the hilt) then I would like to see it discussed openly not rushed into law because KRudd wants to be the first to jump on the bandwagon. I thought the opposition was supposed to oppose.
denise
# denise
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:22 AM
just love your blogg and i am labor it must be great to have wide appeal not like Mr. Abbott.
Australian news paper have a strange way on interpreting polls have
have you seen the new poll today.

: 56-44 Nielson
O and i think its wonderful your Lucy goes everywhere with you
re something i read on this site.
that is how married life should be, we share everything 41 years today.
Pat Connellan
# Pat Connellan
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:22 AM
Well said, Mr Turnbull. It is time to drag the Liberal Party kicking and screaming back to the middle of Australian politics and away from the outer fringes where it has now camped.

Why the Liberals are so obsessed with their "base" ( a declining and motley collection of rural socialists, talkback radio nutters, religious fanatics and climate change denialists) is beyond me.

If you want to broaden the party's support beyond this reactionary rump, you need to modernise it. And much as the Murdoch media this morning is trumpeting the weekend by-elections as a triumph for Abbott, the fact is the Liberal's primary support has gone backwards.

You should corral the forces within caucus for another tilt at the leadership as soon as feasible. Failing that, start a new progressive liberal democratic party and watch a lot of former Labor voters switch sides.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:23 AM
BTW Malcolm, didn't Abbott say that if Hockey put his hat in the ring that he would stand aside?

Great way to begin his leadership - with a lie. What integrity.
Dave
# Dave
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:23 AM
I tips my hat to you Malcolm , WELL SAID .
The climate sceptics have their heads in the sand and will have their arses burnt by GB warming . Shame these loud voices have swayed the weak swingers in the blue party to this dark side of politics (and are defending their actions by saying "they give the planet benifit of doubt but not K.Rudd" )
You had to put up with Turkey , sorry typo , Tucky why not give them some home truths from the B.Bench .
The blue team have always walked the honourable side, this departure from that ethic by this small group of loud sceptics will in time catch - up with them.
Hang in there Malcolm .
CB
# CB
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:24 AM
I agree with Paul. Paul above, and PK before.... You would have been a ripper Labor leader.
matilda
# matilda
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 AM
Malcolm - where is the "I" in team? You never were a teamplayer. Meglo is the shortform.
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:26 AM
http://topsy.com/tb/bit.ly/70IK2l
Vic
# Vic
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 AM
Malcolm: Your biggest battle is ahead of you. You need to win the Liberal party for action on climate change. You will do it. It will just take a bit of time before the idiocy which has gripped your party sinks intto the rising sea.
VCB
Claire
# Claire
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:28 AM
ETS is a strategic approach. Which ever way you look at this, it is going to cost us. Delay tactics will cost us more.

The Labor party, one which I have not supported in the past...until Rudd came in, now has my full support - a government that has taken significant action in a number of areas, and with a strategic/long term focus, unlike previous governments. Rudd and his team work hard. They lead focussing on issues, not egos. Malcolm, you are a smart man and also have my full support. It's not about Liberal or Labor....its about the leader and the issues being addressed. Abbot you are a disgrace, with no policies and everyone knows it - you are not a leader, and previous blogs not supporting Malcolm are evidence of your gang weakly supporting a baseless man.

Malcolm, work with Rudd and put your talents together. We are an educated society and we are listening and watching and value your commitment as a leader.
Oziebill
# Oziebill
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:28 AM
Malcolm

I think its time for you and like minded "liberals" to split from what has become a conservative party and an image of the U.S. Republican Party. Then you can judge proposed legislation on its merits, not just the knee jerk reaction of opposing everything.

There is ample precedent for this and this is probably your final chance to leave an indelible imprint on the nation's history.

Yes, its a big step but I'm certain you could muster enough of your colleagues to ensure the passage of the ETS in February.

adrian
# adrian
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:29 AM
You may claim that there is a scientific consensus supporting AGW, but there is no economic consensus that a carbon tax is the most effective way to mitigate the issue. In fact the Copenhagen Consensus made up of preeminent economists including noble laureates concluded that ETS style schemes are amongst the least effective way to deal with AGW. The costs they involve far out way the benefits. It would take a couple of centuries before one would be able to mitigate the 3.5c change in temperature predicated by the IPCC.

Meanwhile you have to justify spending $50 trillion across the world to try and stop a couple of degrees change in temperature, while that same money could be used to solve world hunger and malnutrition and eradicate a range of preventable diseases in the third world, thereby saving millions - with change left over to adapt food technology and general infrastructure to a possible increase in temp. - if it ever happens like the IPCC says it will.

You have once again demonstrated that you don't understand the issue and are more intent on promoting your socialist agenda for your own personal beneift than solving problems that actually exist in the here and now, not in some future world concocted by a model forced fed dubious data from academics trying to get the science to match the politics. Aka climagate.
Ray
# Ray
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:29 AM
Keep it up, Malcolm. It is obvious that Tony Abbott is unable to unite the party (first the two senators, now Helen Coonan) and the most constructive outcome might be for the party to split into conservatives and liberals (and I wonder which would be the larger group?) Abbott's novelty value might produce a bounce in the polls for a while, but unless he can come up with some policy substance it will lead nowhere.

The ETS seemed a pretty weak scheme to me but provided it didn't prevent evolution into something more effective at least it was a start. Politics is the art of the possible.
NotYourMum
# NotYourMum
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:29 AM
Oh lordy, Mr Turnbull!

You're so hot right now!

I love it when you talk like that !
reb
# reb
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 AM
Well said Malcolm - keep up the good work!!

http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/rudd-losing-ground-on-climate-change/

Eric B
# Eric B
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:30 AM
Malcolm, you really should consider creating another party. You obviously don't take the by-elections in Higgins and Bradfield as a vote of confidence in the new liberal leader. I think you'll only be satisified if you get it direct from the horse's mouth.
reb
# reb
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:31 AM
http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/rudd-losing-ground-on-climate-change
Liberal
# Liberal
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:31 AM
I am sure Tony wouldn't mind you posting your thoughts on any forum as it will expose you for what you are.You stuffed up over the Grech affair and with your legal background,you did not even check the validity of the fake emails and you were made to look like a fool over the ETS legislation.
Its embarrassing seeing you self destruct in this way,no honour in what you are doing and perhaps you should consider doing the most honourable thing,quitting Politics or more to the point quitting the Liberal Party.
David Northern Beaches
# David Northern Beaches
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:32 AM
Malcolm, thank you for your straight comments on this important issue. I look forward to more of the Liberal Party speaking out honestly and with just conviction on this matter. You have had to suffer the ignorance of the likes of Tuckey and Joyce on this issue. Best wihes for Christmas and the New Year to you and your family.
ShowsOn
# ShowsOn
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:34 AM
Abbott's claim that the CPRS will cost $120 billion is just misleading nonsense. That is how much money will be raised in 10 years, and most of it will be used to compensate households. Also, Abbott was part of the government that introduced the GST which will raise $500 billion (half a trillion) over the next 10 years. So whenever he says the ETS is a $120 billion tax, he will have to explain why that is bad yet a $500 billion tax is fine.
denise
# denise
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:34 AM
Abbott did not get a bounce in the polls it was just the way is been
interetated as i show above no change.

Neilson poll.
56 -44
also as a woman
i would never vote for party he leads.
Fefe
# Fefe
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:35 AM
@Realist, you are right the ETS is an extraordinary gift for the big polluters. What you need to realise however is that without a carbon price you will not fix the 'market failure' of carbon pollution. In fact, even nuclear energy (of which I don't agree with) will require a carbon price to compete with coal. It is not the 'free market' solution. In fact the current arrangements are more appropriately described as 'market failure'. I find it extraordinary that the right always harps on about the primacy of economics when fundamentally they are never committed to the models they claim to be proponents of. Coal is an amazing source of energy, cheap and plentiful, unless we tax it out of existence, we will never have the clean energy transition the planet needs.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:36 AM
I agree with Oziebill. Start a new party.

(just please ignore the impulse to call it The Malcolm Turnbull Party, that mightn't play too well)
denise
# denise
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:36 AM
o and i forgot the low voter turn out for both by elections.
No one has commentated on that.
paul
# paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:38 AM
Good for you Malcolm. Keep telling the truth.
You're still more of a leader than little Tony Abbot will ever be.
denise
# denise
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:44 AM
sorry that poll was News Poll

but what amused me is the 23.60 re abbott and out P.M. and how its been interrupted to sound good.
I think all new oppositions leaders started at about that and i seem to remember Malcolm's was higher.
Greg Graham
# Greg Graham
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:44 AM
Dear Malcolm. Your disloyalty to the Liberal Party is outrageous and totally unacceptable. While the leadership vote was close, the fact is you lost, and Tony immediately did the honourable thing and asked the members to vote on what what each thought on delaying or dumping the CPRS, yes or no, and they overwhelmingly voted to delay or dump rather than pass, and they did so in a secret ballot so there was no intimidation factors to sway their vote. You are now speaking against the agreed party position and actively damaging the party and I believe you have let your personal feelings about being rejected as leader blind you to this fact. Please either tow the party line, keep your feelings to yourself or offer your services to the Labor Party and switch camps. Electorally you may have more chance of retaining your seat as a Green or Labor candidate rather than a rep for the Liberals and I suspect the Liberals would rather you went this way too as you're doing the Coalition no favours at present.
GlenK
# GlenK
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:44 AM
Hi Malcolm. Well done.

Clear and concise and the ultimate weather vane. The Liberal Party has not only badly misjudged the mood of the electorate but are using fringe science and fragments of statements from experts to justify their ludicrous position. But, perhaps most importantly, they have failed the trust test. Would you trust this mob with the economy, our defence, our health care system, our foreign relations? Under no circumstances.

Here is the fact. While Mr Abbott has gained slightly higher polling than you did last month he now holds the record for the lowest preferred PM vote for any first-time leader of an opposition. And that is with a 'hand-on-the-heart' statement that he will save every household at least $1000 per year. If you can;t get a decent bounce off that then you better watch out for when the issues are actually debated.

But please, let us take Mr Abbott at his word on the commitment to 5% emissions cuts by 2020. If the front page of the Herald is right today about Mr Hockey's $50bn analysis of the 'direct action' model Mr Abbott is pushing then maybe he can tell us which hospitals he will close, which defence strategies will be shut down, how much will old age pensions be cut, which ships will we sell that currently protect our borders?

Because the greatest tragedy of all would be if the polluters were forced to pay their fair share.
Amos Keeto
# Amos Keeto
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:45 AM
Great stuff, simply great stuff Malcolm.
Alex
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:46 AM
Malcolm, thank you for your input. I however continue to remain skeptical of your dedication to effective action on climate change as climate scientists have suggested we need a much stronger reduction to emissions than you have proposed:

"Meinshausen et al. (2009) found that if a total of 1000 Gigatons of CO2 is emitted for the period 2000-2050, the likelihood of exceeding the 2-degree warming limit is around 25%. In 2000-2009, about 350 Gigatons have already been emitted, leaving only 650 Gigatons for 2010-2050. At current emission rates this budget would be used up within 20 years." (cf. Copenhagen Diagnosis) The proposed targets in the joint ALP/Coalition CPRS would have fallen far short of this goal.

Please review the science behind emission reductions and bring that to the fore of the debate. Thank you!
Tom
# Tom
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:47 AM
Reading these comments, I'm amazed at how many flat-earthers are still around in the Liberal party.

Loony climate change deniers aside, there is still a large number of Libs who grudgingly accept anthropogenic global warming but claim that an emissions trading scheme is the wrong way to tackle it. Of all people, shouldn't economic liberals embrace the ETS? Rather than mandating the redistribution it means to let the market take care of things. Surely, that should be right up the Libs' alley, no?
Earth
# Earth
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:47 AM
If only the disendorsed you. Nothing but a egocentric backstabbing bastard, you are. Tony Abbott never tried to keep pulling you down as leader. You did that yourself.
TweedleB
# TweedleB
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:47 AM
Malcolm
The Liberal Party is a TEAM. You are dear sir not part of it. It is with you, my way or no way. Join the alp as it was your first choice was it not?
Kelvin
# Kelvin
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:48 AM
To everyone calling out Malcolm for being a rebel and speaking out of turn,

You have no ground to stand on. Where were you 2-3 weeks ago when, even 2-3 months ago, when Tuckey, Joyce, Micham et al were speaking out? You don't care about the Liberal party, you are just hypocrites who only want the Liberal party to represent the far right of politics and can't stand moderates. You're criticisms have nothing to do with the issue at hand. You were the ones that created this division so if you're not tough enough to take it then maybe you should be the one that leaves
Mitchell
# Mitchell
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:48 AM
I also agree, we need a genuine third party option. Malcolm, I think you should step up.
Huskynik
# Huskynik
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:50 AM
Hi Malcolm. You sound hot. Got email?
Pat Connellan
# Pat Connellan
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:50 AM
As much as Abbott and Minchin might wish it to be otherwise, this is beyond the now redundant left-right divisions.

Most reasonable people, while never likely to get their heads around the climate change science, realise that a balance of risks approach demands coordinated global action to cut back greenhouse gas emissions.

What Labor is proposing is very similar to what Howard took to the last election and what most other developed economies are proposing - a market-based solution to climate change.

While there are arguments over whether the Liberal negotiated amendments have made the ETS too generous to polluters, this bill is a good starting point and represents, while not a perfect solution, the best possible outcome for the time being. It is definitely better than the Abbott alternative, which is basically nothing (until he finds a way of wedging Labor).

Malcolm Turnbull successfully negotiated what he and other moderates in his party saw as a realistic accommodation with the government. But, no, the denalists and irrational forces on his right - cheered on by a mainstream Murdoch media that long ago gave up the pretence of even-handedness - white-anted him.

It is patently obvious to many of us centrist, small 'l' liberal, progressive and educated urban voters that the Liberal Party is an anachronism, just as Labor is an anchronism - a legacy of late 19th and early 20th century class battles now desparately looking for a point of difference.

The reality is the Liberal Party is a reactionary, conservative party, dominated by irrational and hysterical forces hostile to sensible, moderate global policy responses to global problems. Get rid of them Malcolm.

Now
Earth
# Earth
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:52 AM
If only this overpaid tosser knew what he was talking about. Australian farmers have largely changed their farming practices and many continue to change over to Bio-Organic farming despite the political parties trying everything to make them go GM.

If you want to look at who creates the most environmental damage, blame the city mugs with all their concrete and pollution. Turncoat wouldn't know a tree if he hit one with his car.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:52 AM
1. In light of all leaks into the 'climate change science', I think it's simply a bad tone to keep claiming that we are prepared to give the Earth the benefit of the doubt. Give us the benefit of the doubt.
2. The liberal party is not your party, you should not be a member of it, Malcolm. Go to Labor, as you were going to at some point, or have your own party.

If you don't stand down at the next election, the party is bound to loose the seat. At least i am no longer voting for you. I'd rather tear apart my bulletin.
Ely
# Ely
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:53 AM
Please keep it up. Well done and thank you!
Samdy
# Samdy
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:53 AM
You disapoint me normally would not comment but you are playing with my day to day life and I resent that. If you honestly believe all of what you said then you need to look at the leader of the Liberal party at the time. He didn't do his job poperly. I believe that was you. You created your own platform of straight talking for the article and yet you are very selective in your quotes . Your admitting there is more than one window of opportunity to vote for this legislation You are also well aware that climate change being a real issue then no Government can totally ignore the problem. You don't have to like someone to vote for them but you do have to respect them sorry you lost me there
Julie
# Julie
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:53 AM
Malcolm
I agree with the concept of no gain without pain. I also am concerned by the lack of integrity and the "weather vane" concept exasperates me. Turnbull and Joyce together would run a good fish'n'chip shop.

However, what I would like to do is understand more on the issues and on the alternatives. I am reading as much and as widely as I can, but nearly everything comes with an agenda.

Could you put up a series of FAQs and provide your thoughts on each of them. At least I know where you are coming from.
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:54 AM
Social comments and analytics for this post
corbarb
# corbarb
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:54 AM
The average person has really no idear of what is going on.So much od Al Gore can not be proved and his behaviour is not helping.The new email scandel is another problem.What are we supposed to belive.
Hide The Decline
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:54 AM
Malcolm, with all due respect, STFU. You lost the leadership AND the ETS ballot in the party room. What does that tell you? Only Labor and Goldman Sachs would benifit by the introduction of an ETS. It is becoming obvious you are NOT working for the majority of conservative voters who had their say on the weekend and it seems they don't agree with you either! Get it yet?

I once thought you would make a great PM. Sad to say, but you are not going to be remembered in a good light if you keep these childish outbursts up. Not a great legacy for a public figure......
nicksr
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:55 AM
Keep fighting - although I didnt agree with your politics you fought a fair fight and addressed issues and the ETS as you saw it. Now the Libs are taking an unprincipled cop-out stance full knowing the masses simply go for legislation that doesnt hurt the wallet - little thinking that ETS is about our global long term survival for all generations everywhere.

As you say the Libs have not ETS policy just hollow rhetoric. A tragic shame that people care more about their next plasma TV than our environment's future. And the Libs now to their shame shall be milking these voters for all the support they can muster with their new spin and venom.

Indeed M. a third party would be a blessing to Australia.

All the best anyhow at Xmas.
Marie
# Marie
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:55 AM
Dear Malcolm Here's a note of encouragement from a demographic usually dubbed 'rusted on Liberals'. My friends

and I ( all over 70) are dismayed at the parlous state of the Liberal Party and cannot believe the mouthings of Nick

Minchin and his foot soldiers. We are trying to assess the hidden agenda and can only come up with the 'born to

rule' syndrome driving their frantic attempts to raise a fear of climate change and the ETS solution among those

most important people, the swinging voters.

I am now a financial member of the Greens, my protest against the Opposition's negative view of climate change

and the failure of the incumbents to sort out the disastrous mess called our Public Hospital System.

You appear as a man of logic and clear thinking and I commend your courage in facing up to your enemies.

You already have the support of 41 members and have the capacity to encourage them to develop a bi-

partisan solution to help save our troubled planet. I encourage you to 'maintain your rage". (Thanks 1975)

You may be amused to hear that we, in our presumed dotage, have devised a new game. Whenever we hear on TV the words,

"great big new tax" we reach for the remote and change channels. We resent Abbott's transparent attempt to implant

his mantra into the long term memory of every viewer.
Ing
# Ing
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:56 AM
Love it Mal!
I am not a Liberal voter, and must admit that I voted against you in the seat of Wentworth last election - but your determination on this issue has won me over. Thank you for being a voice for all of us trying to do our bit, let's hope it's not in vain.
Andrew Rock
# Andrew Rock
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:56 AM
Straight talk indeed.

Tony Abbott is following the Lying Rodent's strategy: say anything, do anything for power. As well, using the populist strategy: telling morons it's OK to be a moron. Why shouldn't he? It works.
chris
# chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:56 AM
your being so UN AUSTRALIAN. don't do any more damage then you have already done.If you don't like the liberal party GET OUT. But don't be seen as KRUDDs lap dog. you were a better person than that.
Barry
# Barry
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:57 AM
Well said Malcolm. Thank you for your integrity on this issue.
frank
# frank
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:57 AM
We, the voters do not want any more closed rooms party discussions, what we want and most australians need is an open debate about the subject as I am sure most ordinary voters have no idea of the implications in adopting a policy in this matter (one way or the other).
I agree whith the new liberal leader in respect to inform the people of Australia in simple terms what is it that we are risking for the future of our kids and if nothing, then say it in an open debate.
Also, we would like to remind Malcolm and Rudd that they owed alliance to Australia first and then to the world and not the other way around.
I, personally work in areas of housing commission and ordinary australians who live the day to day on a less than a minimum wage and they do not understand anything about ETS, Global warming (now more confusing with the knowledge of the emails from the scientist community in England, covering up the findings or enhancing maliciously the data found), carbon print, etc. They worry about the food they put on the table on a daily basis.
Darren
# Darren
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:57 AM
Top stuff Malcolm - you're a man of integrity.

You're within your right as a member of the party to voice your opinion. In the words of Don Chipp 'keep the bastards honest'.
Tracey
# Tracey
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:59 AM
good on ya Malcolm....everyone is talking about how Abbott is a 'conviction' politician but he is anything but that...he changes his mind like the wind.
For my money, you are the conviction politician and have stood firm in your belief on climate change when Abbott is on record as calling it 'crap'.
Keep up the good work and keep the pressure on.
Cheers and Merry Xmas!
Matta
# Matta
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:00 AM
Mr Turnbull,

You should stop pretending the ETS will do anything to curb climate change. It is a disguise for the Labor party and your own inability to do something substantial. An ETS is just a tax, which means emissions wont be cut, they will just cost more. And with YOUR amendments, the biggest polluters can keep polluting anyway.

I am personally offended by yours and Rudd's argument of "If you're against THIS ETS you are a climate sceptic", because that is rubbish. Stop hijacking the debate by framing it as such.

I believe climate change is happening and LOTS needs to be done, but I think this ETS is a sham, as is the whole notion of 'Emissions Trading'.

Why don't you stop being so closed minded and actually listen to what Abbott has to say on the policy and then criticise. You are criticising something that does not yet exist.


I voted Labor at the last election, but if Abbott opposes the ETS I will vote Liberal.
Petar
# Petar
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:01 AM
Many Australians feel they have been disenfranchised by BOTH of the major political parties... we need a 'third way'. Present one please, the public need representation...
Hamish
# Hamish
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:01 AM
Malcolm, assuming you actually read this and I dearly hope you do... You are not the leader, you lost the vote, Abbott blows you out of the water in the polls and now you're displaying the worst case of SOUR GRAPES ever seen in Australian Politics by attempting to undermine the party you once led. Take your spite somewhere else. If you are so confident that your electorate agrees with you, stand down as the member for Wentworth and run again as an independent. Put up OR SHUT UP!
Matt
# Matt
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:02 AM
Could not have said it better!! >>

# Hide The Decline
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:54 AM
Malcolm, with all due respect, STFU. You lost the leadership AND the ETS ballot in the party room. What does that tell you? Only Labor and Goldman Sachs would benifit by the introduction of an ETS. It is becoming obvious you are NOT working for the majority of conservative voters who had their say on the weekend and it seems they don't agree with you either! Get it yet?
Clive
# Clive
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:03 AM
Malcolm,
You are acting like a 2 year old who hasn't got his way. Your behaviour is a disgrace and I am more glad now that you lost the opposition leadership than I was when you first lost it.
Pull your head in and give the new leader Tony Abbot a chance to give the Liberals a chance at the next election.
Understand, that the Liberals is more than just about you!
You should be ashamed of yourself!!!!!!
Tusker's Rescue
# Tusker's Rescue
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:03 AM

So the thing is this ... let's have a look at the Venn Diagram shall we?!!! Hmmm.... how come that the very same people who are calling the few 1000 or so Tamils (and of course a few dodgy Sinhalese crims and economic refugees) that are fleeing Sri Lanka ..."scum" are the same drongos who don't believe in climate change?

Malcolm, you should have started saying no to this mob when they jumped on the right-wing fascist band-wagon and got all xenophobic about 1000 Tamils. You didn't and that was wrong and you know it.

I have lived in Wenthworth for two decades, who I vote for is not really the issue. I supported you on the Republican issue .. and there again you got done like a dog's dinner by John Howard. I was confident that there were enough Libs who would stand up and push aside 12 years of stupidity under Howard regarding climate change but oh no, you got done like a dogs dinner again!

We did manage to finally say sorry to indigenous Australians, (albeit while Wilson Tuckey sneered from the balcony), you said sorry to the lost generation and for these two things we can be proud that Australia is moving away from ignoring it's past and towards correcting it's mistakes.

So now what? The Liberals who are not living in some dark hole, waving the Union Jack, thumping a big bible and who have got a brain, MUST re-invent themselves.

I think Malcolm, you should give Tony absolutely heaps but for God's sake start listening to ALL Australians not just the power-brokers and special interest groups in the Lib-National coalition. How does Tony Abbott think he's going to get the vote of Muslims, of Gay people, of Greenies, of women (don't care what the polls say). Do you want to be tarnished with the same brush? No - well you're going to have to prove that YOU are an alternative to Tony Abbott and the right brigade - can someone write the song :-) !!!

If you cannot remain with the Liberals because they are about to self-destruct ... go it alone. Become an independent. Stand for true libertarian views. There are many, many dissatisfied Libs out there. There are a few unhappy Labour voters ... more so with State politics - either way we need a third force.

Tony Abbott should join the Nationals and realise that it's a sin to tell lies.

I'd like to see you take him on - but I really think it's time you listen as well.

Jeffrey Tapping
# Jeffrey Tapping
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:05 AM
Thanks Malcolm for TRUTHFUL straight talking, instead of that designed solely for personal gain. I recently submitted a letter to New Scientist on the topic of politician's attitude to climate change evidence, and said in part, "Deniers such as the senior Australian politician who says that climate change is an international left-wing conspiracy need to be challenged for the evidence for their statements. They want iron-clad evidence from us, but accept blind assertions from themselves."
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:06 AM
Keep it coming Malcolm. You're alright with me.
Pugwash
# Pugwash
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:06 AM
Thankyou Malcom for putting good science and long term policy ahead of short term political thinking.

If the Coalition has any sense, they'll let the wingnuts become the minority they actually are and put you back as leader.
gerry eaton
# gerry eaton
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:08 AM
Poor old crash or crash through Mal finally crashed out.

Your sound like a jilted lover Mal why don't you piss off and leave politics to politicians.

If you look at the opinion polls most Australians think your nothing but a bully boy with bad manners.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:10 AM
Malcolm

For someone with such high intelligence you also appear to be below average in some areas. You are looking like a spoiler now and your leadership has in the past made Kevin the Rudd look good. People have the right to ask if you are in the wrong party. Some didnt trust that you were a true liberal going back to the republic debate, and now with you throwing mud at the party at a time when they least need it, some may even suggest your desire is to destroy the party.

Please, if you care about the liberal party just let Tony have have some room to breathe as he has a great deal of rebuilding to do. Tony will make a fine leader and needs to be given a fair go . You can have your opinion but right now is hardly the time to be expressing it publicly
Jason
# Jason
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:10 AM

Lol at the people commenting on MT's lack of loyalty. Where was the loyalty shown by various members of his own party throughout his term as opp leader?

Comment above about a TEAM made me laugh the hardest.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:11 AM
Good post Mal.
Thought about defecting to the ALP? There's a lot of republicans and people who believe in climate change over there. It happens... look at Japan... their current PM was a senior member of the conservative party. Changed tack, now he's PM...

Why bother with Abbott and Minchin?
The far left and the far right are both tripe, but the ALP have this thing called the Greens, which takes away people from the far-left, so you don't have to pretend they are your best friends.
Nick L
# Nick L
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:11 AM
Great comments Malcolm. Climate change is a reality. I work with scientists around the world and there is not one respectable scientific organisation I know which is not doing work on climate change. Governments around the world are spending money now - vast sums. The reality is that Governments, and REAL scientists have seen the problem for years and they are doing things about it NOW. But they need to do more.

What we hear as a public is ALL of the of political bullshit which is aimed simply at parties getting re-elected.

Why don't we all accept that people who are far more knowledable than the vast majority of us have recognised the problem for what it is - bloody huge and only just manageable. The media and political banter is game which just gets in the way of the work that needs to be done.

What is a terrible shame is the amount of time we are all wasting and especially the disctractions we are putting in front of people who can make a difference.

Malcolm a traitor to his party?? Well who cares because he not a traitor to humanity.
Dan
# Dan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:11 AM
Hi Malcolm,

Keep up the good fight. All the comments here show that the community is far from united on this one. I believe that if the policy wasn't going to be so effective in reducing pollution, we wouldn't be hearing all the noise. As Eric Campbell-Geddes said "squeeze the...lemon until the pips squeak"

Good luck and hang in there.
Peta
# Peta
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:12 AM
Malcolm, I appreciate your concerns on the environment. I appreciate your passionate support in what you believe. I do not appreicate the arrogance you show however in any debate on the topic. You do not have a mandate to force your opinion on the whole country and it may come as a shock but you are not always right. I would have thought your experience with the Republic debate would have taught you a lesson - I think that vote was lost because of your arrogance in running the debate. I also do not appreciate you running down the Liberal party. Perhaps you should start your own party - call it Malcolm First.
Rohan
# Rohan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:12 AM
Malcolm - you have been crucified by half your own party for doing the right thing.

The fact that you were ousted only demonstrates the myopia of Abbot and his supporters, and shows to me that they are more interested in the politics of the ETS than they are in keeping Australia at the front of the pack of developed economies. Europe has a fully functioning ETS, america is emerging from a dark time in its political history and will no doubt sign up soon. Abbot's actions have bumped us to the back of the pack.

An ETS is not a matter of "IF", but "WHEN".

ETS damaging to the economy? No - there will be a short period of readjustment and then it will be business as usual, no more than the period of adjustment we had for the GST, the period of adjustment we had when lead based fuels / certain refrigerants were banned.
Climate change real? It seems that way - overwhealming scientific consensus on the topic, but vocal opposition from those who have a financial / emotional interest in high pollution levels.
ETS a certainty? I'd say yes - any block now is just delaying the inevitable.
Will we all benefit from ETS? Absolutely - less pollution therefore environmental benefits for all of us (if you've ever been to china you know how bad it can be). Related industries (alternative energy, clean production, carbon credits) will flourish, and technology will be eventually passed on to the consumer (imagine an australia where every home could afford solar technology).

Malcolm - although the ETS was probably not the strongest in the world, you can stand tall for having the foresight to realise that it will happen whether deniers want it to or not.
James Nguyen
# James Nguyen
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:13 AM
Malcolm, I am totally supportive of your stance on climate change policy and the sooner you return to the Liberal leadership, the better. Tony Abbott may have exited the Liberal party 'base' but Sarah Palin had the similar effect with Republican. Being combative just for the sake of it is not what moderate voters (the majority of the electorate) want. Australia needs more principle politicians like yourself.
Toby Fiander
# Toby Fiander
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:14 AM
Those who oppose the carbon trading scheme need to look at what other nations have done, particularly in Europe. Mostly it is a trading scheme - I am sure it is possible to learn from their mistakes, and there have been some. Australia has schemes for trading in rights (eg. rural water). The schemes tend not to act as a tax, but they do shift the value of actions of property.

There is an argument for a carbon tax, as well as a trading scheme. Those with some experience think there ought to be a tax as well as a trading scheme. The proceeds of this can be like the proceeds of the petrol tax, which supplements general revenue or they can be like the proceeds of the Medicare Levy, which does not cover the cost of that scheme.

There are also arguments for agricultural sequestration and low carbon technologies generally.

None of these things is going to fix the problem alone, and nothing will work unless you either legislate certain actions or make the actions follow from establishment of a market to give carbon a price.

Those who think that this is someone else's problem need to look carefully at the ethical implications of their present lifestyle. In the longer term, they will be causing the death of other people in weather related disasters and the extinction of plant and animal species. Those who say change to a low carbon economy cannot be afforded now, or that other trading nations will be advantaged compared to Australia should realise they are using the same arguments that opposed the abolition of slavery. Slavery did not see the end of civilisation, and neither will transition to a low carbon economy, whether we elect to do it now, or it is forced on us later with considerably higher costs.

Malcolm's points, made in his characteristic way, whether you like that or not, are simply the truth. He has shown real leadership when others wanted to prevaricate.

Perhaps Malcolm failed to bring the slow learners with him, because, arguably, that is the job of a leader, too. But he has made his stand for the well-being of humanity and used his influence for good.

Mate, mate... nice work, mate.
Boris
# Boris
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:14 AM
Malcolm go your own way. You could be the 3rd alternative in politics. Take over the democrats, they are just a shell desperately needing leadership and finances. You will probably get 6-10 MP's coming with you. You may even get some labour people. We need a 3rd voice that occupies the middle ground
Ben
# Ben
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:15 AM
Tony Abbot 2004 – "Climate change is a load of crap"....

Tony Abbot 2012 – "Greenland is a load of crap"....
Ronny Susanto
# Ronny Susanto
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:15 AM
Well, if you asked me whether i support Mr. Turnbull or not few weeks or months ago? the answer will be No. But, I must agree on this issue with him. Not that I agree with him in many policies and issues but to see him critizing Mr Abbott is a brave thing to do. Mr Abbott policy (no that he has any...yet...if he ever) is an absolute non-sense.

Mr Turnbull I applaud you and your decision to cross the floor when this issue, re-introduced to the parliament, next year. I do hope you keep and stand up for what you believe in. Well don!
ozgirl58
# ozgirl58
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:15 AM
Malcolm I am a Labour voter, however I admire you for your integrity. Abbott is a fuc*wit and does not care about anythingbut himself. The bloke is an idiot. Whines about everything even to the point on TV yesterday complaining about the PM and Premier of NSW being at church and TV crews outside. Start your own party.
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:15 AM
Go join the Labor party then. You have joined the "Global Warming" religion - the proof is far from conclusive that any climate change is the result of human activity. You are a sore loser that is used to getting your own way.
Nathan
# Nathan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:15 AM
Malcolm, You want some home truths? Can you really handle the home truths?

1. Abbott may have said what he thought in the shaddow cabnet meetings, but he didn't bring it public untill the leader (yourself) blatently ignored the partyroom

2. Global warming myth is coming appart at the seams, have you investigated climategate? Maybe you need to come clean and tell us all what you have to gain from it all.

3. The majroity of Australians either don't understant the ETS and its implications also the majority of Australians don't believe in rushing the legislation through prior to copenhagen and prior to the big polluters doing their bit.

4. Your and your labor mates target of 5% of Australias emmissions is actually 0.007% of global emmissions. In other words nothing that will make any difference to global climate, and $120 Billion new tax to do nothing except make you and your banker mates rich.

5. You are doing nothing but distroying the party. At least Costello stayed quiet on the backbench so you could have your chance which you failed due to your ego and your labor party stance. You have no one else to blame but yourself. Go and starty your new party. You think you will take votes off the Liberals with your socialist policies? i doubt it , the only people you will steal is the Labor votors and then it won't be many.

You are a disgrace to the Liberal party and a disgrace to conservitive politics.

Can you handle these home truth's Malcolm?

Or are you trying to overtake Mark Latham as the most unstable politician in Australian Politics. The best thing the Liberal Party can do is preselect somone else for your seat of Wentworth unless you get back in line and be a team player.
GB Dorrington
# GB Dorrington
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:16 AM
One of the few comments by Turnbull that I am inclined to strongly agree with. The Libs are now commanded by an Abbott and Bishop, and only God will save them from the crap they are now peddling. As for their chances at an election, that is entirely laughable; I predict Abbott will be out in 6-8 months.
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
Thank you Malcolm for speaking with conviction on this topic. To all those out there who criticise based on 'not following the party line' how about assessing the importance of this issue.

We need politicians who can speak with honesty and integrity and it is refreshing to hear someone stand by his principles and not reinvent them every 5 minutes because they think that is what will win votes!!!!!
Pete
# Pete
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
I always thought you were a twonk for selling OzEmail to Worldcom. We're still paying for that selloff and collapse today. At last, you've started along that long road of redemption in my eyes. As a New (Classic? Traditional?) Liberal, I'm greatly hearted.
# Rex
# # Rex
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
Good on you Malcolm. Straight talking as usual..

Abbot is only where he is so Minchin and his cronies can control their agenda. How on earth could Abbot deal with world leaders?, He alters his position every five minutes and has absolutely no integrity whatsoever- What a joke the party has become.
PLEASE BRING ON ANOTHER SPILL, and get back where you belong. (those in the team with talent and integrity need you)
HotWaterService
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
@TurnbullMalcolm: Impressed by your consistent stance on climate change! It is too important to play politics (Tony are you listening? )!

Best Wishes HotWaterService
david roden
# david roden
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
Thanks for the 'straight talking'. Let's hope some more of your colleagues will actually listen and follow suit. I was dismayed that the new Member for Bradfield started talking climate-change-double-speak as soon as Tony Abbott was elected leader.
Get_Therapy
# Get_Therapy
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:18 AM
I have no idea how you managed to avoid the 'conflict of interest' question from the media over this issue. Ex-chair of Goldman Sachs, shareholder in ...., mates all over the world who stand to make BILLIONS from an ETS.

Malcolm, just go and join the Labor party and be done with it.

You are behaving like my 5 year old.
Neil
# Neil
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:19 AM
The utter hypocrisy of four positions on climate change in four months, and the populace wait with baited breath for his new position?
Tony is a chameleon, and for someone who professes to have strong Christian principles, I find his commitment to a position solely for the purpose of political-power gamesmanship, to be rather queer.
Give it less than a week and he will be firing up the border protection issues with a fearful rhetoric.
People admire Tony because he is not afraid to express his views. Unfortunately, these same people are not at all concerned about what his views are.
But why would anyone? It changes to match the electable landscape, but not to the groans of an Earth in crisis!
LMB
# LMB
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:20 AM
Malcolm,

1. The credibility of undermining comments by the loser in a leadership contest means the value of your comments say more about you than about the position you espouse.

2. The Australian federal political scene has a precedent for the course you are embarking on. You are flirting with becoming - and risk being viewed as - Lathamesq.

3. Whilst your conviction is to be admired, politics is about achieving outcomes and this is something Tony - as a dyed in the wool political animal - has a grasp of. You demonstrably do not. My admiration for your conviction would be worth more than a passing reflection if you allowed your ego to get out of the way of achieving the outcome you so passionately feel is worth advancing.

4. You have done your ETS cause a disservice by establishing it as an act of faith in Malcolm, rather than in the ETS and climate change action itself.

5. All the above leads me to believe that you have done more to harm climate change action in Australia by associating yourself with it, than by not being involved at all. Your participation in the debate has the direct consequence of the Opposition position (or - for now - lack of one) we have now.

6. The body politic understand that your personality deficiencies are the real issue here. You respect strength and toughness. Demonstrate some by reconciling yourself to whatever demons so obviously torpedo your prodigious talent. Doing so will deliver to the Australian community the fullness of the promise you hold to us.
Peter
# Peter
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:21 AM
Malcolm, did you used to throw temper tantrums in the aisles at the supermarket?
marcus
# marcus
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:21 AM
Malcolm is this sour grapes, are you going to destroy the Liberal Party because you were dumped...The problem is all Liberals politicians have a born to rule mentality. Who is lurking in the background...hmmm
Ron
# Ron
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:22 AM
Are you Australia's Al Gore? Made more of an impact outside politics than he did when he was in the political system...You have a lot to offer Australia and we shouldn't lose you from public life...
Rowan
# Rowan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:24 AM
Malcolm, what are you doing? Where's your loyalty to the party?

Tony Abbott has been in the job for less than 7 days, he hasn't yet published a policy on this (it's been seven days cut him some slack) and he hasn't said once that what he may propose will cost nothing.

Tony said it may be revenue neutral. That's not the same thing, and to paraphrase you 'morever you know it'.

Honestly Malcolm, don't be a sore loser, just get on with the job and support your leader, or if you love the labor ETS so much – not even something they want to fully support at this point – go join them.
Craig
# Craig
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:24 AM
Sour grapes, Malcwarm Turnbull. Too bad you didn't get your way.

I see another bitter Paul Keating in the making.
Steven
# Steven
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:24 AM
Dear Malcolm .... It's not about you or your ego... Your disloyalty to the Liberal Party is outrageous but sadly not unexpected. Move on Malcolm.
Stephen
# Stephen
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:24 AM
Economic arguments in favour of an ETS:

1. Property held in common, for example a commune, will always be subject to the so-called "tragedy of the commons". eg, The story of farmers with cows grazing a common paddock: because there is no incentive not to overgraze, eventually, the entire paddock is ruined and cannot be used.

2. Of course, cutting emissions will cost. If the other forms of energy were cheaper, they would already be in use.

3. A carbon limit via an ETS and/or a carbon tax should be about managing the shift from a carbon intensive economy to one that isn't. In terms of cost, better a gradual shift than a sudden one.

4. Peak oil is already here.

5. Better to start now and be at the forefront with alternative technologies, and be in a position to export them, than to wait until its necessary to change, and then find out that it is cheaper to import everything. eg, solar, geothermal, etc.

6. That a rise in sea levels will have adverse economic effects cannot be denied. Some say the sea is not rising due to human causes. Plausible. But what if it were. Years from now, wouldn't it be better to be safe than sorry.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:25 AM
Bloody hell Malcolm, pull your head in or quit the party!!
mike_in_mudgee
# mike_in_mudgee
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:25 AM
Good stuff, Malcolm. Do not abandon the good fight! Abbott and his mob of nutters are not just climate change deniers, they are deniers of science in general and want science "put back in its rightful place" as Sarah Palin has said.
James
# James
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:26 AM
Malcolm you are a poor, sad, vindictive little man.
If Kevin and his party wear convinced of their convictions and their solution they would not have bothered negotiating with you or the Liberals.
Unlike Labor and your party the Greens don’t doubt climate change and are ready to take real action. If Rudd actually wanted useful legislation passed to would have negotiated with them. Instead he played you and won a monumental political victory- one which you are amplifying.
You, and the rest of the nation, got played and you’re too sour to see it.
Doron Katz
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:27 AM
Sorry you guys and Malcolm. You all make it a tab boo to discuss ETS and validity of human induced climate change. All Tony Abbott is asking for is a debate, and everyone is running saying No. Im sorry, I dont subscribe to the British Academic world of censorship and figure-manipulating when it comes to Global Warming.

Sorry Malcolm, you may have your view on this but you should talk for the party, or make your own party but we vote for parties as it stands in Australia, not a politician (unless you are an independent).
MartinGAtkins
# MartinGAtkins
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:27 AM
You were willing to support a tax that would ruin Australian industry and hurt every hard working tax payer. Your a gutless appeaser and the Liberal party would be better off without you.
Nathan
# Nathan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:27 AM
Sorry "gerry", but I don't think you speak for "most Australians". Nor do I, but if we're going to play pretend, I believe "most Australians" will vote for George W Bush before they vote for Tony Abbott. The Liberals have just lost election 2010, and I think they know it.

The thing is, I think I'd like Mr Abbott if I met him in person. He seems a likeable bloke, and I seem to share many values with him. However, there are several vital things I believe vital to the future of Australia that he and I don't see eye-to-eye on.

As for Mr Turnbull, it's a pity the leaders of this country (and I think Mr Turnbull fell into this category until a week ago) are unable to speak plainly for fear of being torn apart by the media and their rivals. I would love to be in the room if they ever get together off-the-record and speak plainly what they think without fear of recrimination the next day.

Mr Howard was ousted as leader of the opposition in the 80's, and then went on to regain the leadership and become Prime Minister. I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Mr Turnbull just yet. He has shown himself to be a force in Australian politics that is not to be underestimated.
Chino
# Chino
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
Malcom,

I applaud you.

Keep going.
George Pap
# George Pap
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
Well said... the sound of sincerity.

You have said, what alot of people have not had the intelligence and guts to express.

Nick Minchin implied that most Australians are gullible, and that is why they accepted the premise of human induced global warming.

But how gullible do people want to be when they are willing to give Tony Abbott and Nick Minchin the benefit of the doubt and not our planet.

Good on you Malcolm dont let them silence you.
Brendan
# Brendan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:29 AM
I would say that Abbott said before what he did to be loyal to the leader until that loyalty looked like destroying the party - so then he did the right thing and spoke what he really believed in.

Some people do have loyalty and don't go around bashing their leader and throwing temper tantrums.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the Liberals are stronger now and every day justifies the changes.
Aaron
# Aaron
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:29 AM
The Libs have really shot themselves in the foot here. Who would have thought they would elect a leader in 2009 even more backwards than John Howard.

I haven't voted Liberal for a decade or so but you were a fine Opposition leader Malcolm!

PS don't forget about the Republic thing eh?
derspatz
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:30 AM
Who are you REALLY working for Malcolm ? It certainly doesn't seem to be either the Liberal party or the good of Oz.

What REALLY is your interest in seeing Oz speedily enslaved to endless ETS that does absolutely nothing in terms of influencing the natural and endless cycle of climate change ?

Anyway, just like ten upon tens of thousands of email writers and blog posters/commentors (including myself) coupled with the recent tsunami news event of "Climategate' helped bring about the returning of the Liberal party to its necessary conservative roots by removing you as leader and the putting of a road-block on the highly suspect and totally unnecessary ETS, hopefully before too long concerned email writers of Oz will be able to convince the Liberal Party to get rid of you completely.

Then you can go back to working for Kevvy and Goldman Sachs ... oh hang on, did you ever CEASE being in the employ of both ?

In closing, never mind for a moment what your ETS was going to cost Oz ... I'm more interested in what it is going to cost you by NOT having it.

I say bring on a Royal Commission to not only explore the questionable science behind the whole AGW lie and ETS scam, but also to explore the potential vested interests of those who were pushing for it the most.

Such as you.

regarDS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTGLpqFGyYM
Peter
# Peter
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:31 AM
Malcolm, I may be out of touch, but in talking to lots of small business people in rural Australia, I find a huge lack of understanding of the ETS and its impact. I also ask this question: Why did our forefathers go to war to protect our sovreignty when, via Kyooto, Via World Heritage Listings, we seem so keen hand over control of our nation to others, and who are these others? It is of great concern to me that we are so quick to adopt actions which appear to me to be almost traitor like.

John Howard said he would meet kyoto standards but would not sign the agreement - what was wrong with that?

We should act alone, not as part of an international group, but alone and in the best interests of Australia, and we should therefore be having an exhaustive debate around the costs of this plan, ETS, and the costs of other proposals. Governments have an appalling records in managing tax revenue - just look at the States in particular Queensland and NSW who are virtually basket cases when we have had some of the best economic times for the past hundred years during the last decade.How can we trust them to use the funds wisely, to encourage greener power, more efficient fuels. We don't trust them - they are a Labor Govt and they do not have any credentials to manage an economy.

Look at the waste that has occurred with the GFC handouts.Even if i believed in Global Warming, caused by humans, and I am somewhat skeptical, then I would not trust this Government to administer it in a fair way. Just look at the appointment for the vote rigging Mike Kaiser to his NBN position - what a joke.

There is a lot involved here, but I would not support any additional tax measures whilst Labor is in office.

Peter
Mac
# Mac
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:31 AM
“Play the ball, not the man”. Great straight talk on the ISSUE. Yes, it is going to cost something. We need to do something – the debate is good.

Also – why isn’t anyone use the whole ‘tipping point’ analogy of ecosystems. The human body is an ecosystem that reaches a tipping point of ‘death threat’ when you smoke, drink excessively etc etc. And increases when excessive amounts are done in a short space of time. Why don’t we use this issue based lobbying to educate further about the earth. We have stats on what CO2 our global industries are releasing – in the short space of the last 200 years of industrialised society – just do the stats on the growth of internet usage in the world and the CO2 released into the atmosphere – this one simple message with the tipping point analogy could quickly shift a few more liberal members’ understanding of this issue.

The Rudd Government are trying to resist the petty personal attacks of our parliament - and it is working - look at how the Liberals are imploding as the Rudd Govt are not getting sucked in by this bullying game. They have done a lot of good work on this issue – they need the bipartisan support – which you gave – keep focussed – you are a voice for many – keep going.

~ No put downs
~ No personal attacks
~ Rational arguments,
~ Focussed on the issue
~ Keep attempting to educate
~ Keep canvassing for different solutions if they don’t like this one.
Tim
# Tim
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:31 AM
Start your own climate party Mal. You could easily make it a very good alternative to the wacky green vote.
W Roberts
# W Roberts
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:31 AM
Why are we even discussing reducing our own emissions when there are no committments from China, India, USA and Europe.

Why penalise Australia with debts of Billions of Dollars when the changes we may make are so insignificant compared to emissions from theselarge emitters.
Scott
# Scott
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:32 AM
I agree with Boris, join the democrats, I am a member of the party, and if anyone can keep the bastards honest you can. It has the foundations there to build it back up as a dominate player in Australian Politics again.

Mark
# Mark
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:32 AM
Good work Malcolm,
Keep this issue front and centre - the young and future generations depend upon people like yourself pushing for action on climate change.
Sergio
# Sergio
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:32 AM
Malcolm

The Labor party people who will never vote Liberal are blowing smoke up your pompous rear end and giving you a false impression that you have clear support for your ETS policy folly.

True Liberal supporters can't accept that a new tax will save the environment when the proceeds go to pay off heavy polluters.

Do everyone a favour, quit the Liberal Party and go join your mates at the Labor Party.
barry
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:33 AM
Get over it, the party has made its choice.
Clovis
# Clovis
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:33 AM
Malcolm for senate! (Someone has to keep the b&$tards honest ; and its damaging to be associated with flat-earthers...) .
ben bhuy
# ben bhuy
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:33 AM
Well said MT. Keep up the fight, the future of the Liberal Party depends upon it.
Richard
# Richard
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:34 AM
Good on you Malcolm!

I am utterly shattered that you are no longer leader of the Federal Liberal Party and we are now seeing certain members of the party use the climate change debate as an excuse to go backwards and move towards the far right and become an ultra conservative movement.

But if you and any of your like minded progressive Liberals decide to form a new third force political movement you can count on my membership and support! We need and can have a political party which is pro-free market, pro-republic and wanting to still do something about our environment along with a degree of compassion on social issues.

This country needs people like you with conviction that are willing to stand up for what they believe in.

All the very best.
Michael Sukkar
# Michael Sukkar
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:34 AM
It's not surprising that Malcolm has chosen the scorched earth policy now that he's been dumped as leader. We have seen similar vindictive actions in much of Malcolm's public life whenever he doesn't get his way. Malcolm, remember that you are still a member of the Liberal Party and should refrain from making absurd statements that destabilise the Party. You have lost the policy debate, and your leadership style was rejected by the Parliamentary party, so I would suggest that as a "humble backbencher" you concentrate on the electorate of Wentworth, and nothing else.
Tim James
# Tim James
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:36 AM
Despite a well worded rant, I fear you're missing the point Malcolm. Many Australians believe something needs to be done. But we simply fail to see what the rush is, nor to we believe we should just nod politely when Rudd tells us he knows best.

To call me a climate change sceptic is an insult, I'm not sceptical that there's a problem, I'm sceptical that Rudd has the solution.

Why the rush? Why can't we at least wait until the rest of the world gets together and perhaps agrees on a general direction? We alone can't do a damn thing, so what's the point, other than ensuring Rudd eventually gets his nice UN posting?
Colin
# Colin
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:37 AM
Malcolm, how about you come clean on the REAL reason you are so determined to impose an ETS on Australia?

How about you come clean on your former Chairmanship and Partnership with carbon derivatives trading prime mover, Goldman Sachs?

For that matter, how about you come clean on your own and fellow Goldmanite Chris Joye's lobbying of the Government, in 2002-03, via your then Chairmanship of the Menzies Research Centre, advocating for deregulation and encouragement of equity financing and other financial "innovations" to boost the availability of easy finance in the mortgage market, thus making a financial killing for you and your Goldman mates, whilst average Australians have been crucified by ever-rising house prices, and record household debt levels?

Your cynical, self-serving advocacy for Goldman Sachs' continued rape and pillage of the masses is shameful, if not arguably evil. It WILL be exposed.

What bets this post is rejected? The truth will out, Malcolm.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:39 AM
Well said. You are way too worthy for the liberal party.
DaveK
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:39 AM
Well said. On his first appearance on 7.30 Report as Leader, Abbot had some of his words quoted back at him and he responded that he only said that because he was supporting his leader. In other words he lies for political advantage. I don't know how anyone could vote for him after that.

Unfortunately your integrity, the numbers in the party room don't stack up. Rather than continuing to attack the party leadership from the back benches, you should resign and move to the cross benches. If you were to be followed by others, you could then form a new party which could wield considerable influence in the Senate, and may displace the Liberal Party altogether.

I hope you do.
anonymous
# anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:39 AM
mate - you just lost my vote for the seat of Wentworth!!
James
# James
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:42 AM
Well said. If politicians stopped trying to out do each other and actually sat down and talked about the issues that are facing Australia, regardless of their allegiances, Australia would be a much better place. Mr Turnbull you are the one of the first to do so and I beleive you truly are one of the great politicians this nation has seen. If only others from either side of the bench could behave the same way. I am neither a Labor or Liberal supporter, but I am a supporter of Australia.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:43 AM
Malcolm you are an AL GORE belierver and you are wrong , the world is getting cooler (latest findings) and I feel you all have been dupped ,conned,and yes bullshitted to. Malcolm wake up !you supposed to be a learned man (not a sheep),sit back and wait till the truth comes out.

Global warming is NOT happening !

Steven Cousley
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:44 AM
It's nice to see the honesty Malcolm. Please keep it up for the good of the people you represent and the country as a whole. Living in a rural area I can already see the costs of doing nothing on climate change. Yes there must be costs involved in dealing this issue. The long term results of doing nothing will cost a whole lot more. Abbotts stance on this issue is ridiculous.
Andy Semple
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:45 AM
Hey Malcolm, no upside for you or your party if you now continue to be a sore loser. The enemy is Kevin Rudd, not your own party. The mind boggles why you and others within the party are so keen to help that megalomaniac Prime Minister of ours. What team are you really playing on anyway? The ETS is like cancer and once it is in our economy you would never be able to get rid of it. Regardless of your amendments, the ETS is still a pig. I also suppose you don’t put much weight in the recent “Climategate” email scandal – which just further proves the science isn’t settled and in fact has been manipulated by the climate alarmists - like you.

I’d have had some more respect of you had you instead been advocating say a straight out carbon tax– at least then you could argue how crap an ETS is whereas at least a carbon tax is transparent, but no, you had to support Kevin Rudd. Not only that, you where given a chance to save your leadership but your ego got in the way so you reap what you sow, Malcolm. If you can’t contribute and sing from the same song sheet, do the noble thing and resign your seat. Any goodwill that was left will quickly erode away if you now snipe away at your colleagues from the sidelines.
alyson emmins
# alyson emmins
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:45 AM
Go Malcolm! Keep it up: there was only one bloody vote in it! Just wait...
The citizens have to wait again for sensible informed debate.
All the best.
Kim
# Kim
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:47 AM
Keep it up Malcolm.

I'm glad to see someone within the Liberal party is keeping up the debate.
This issue is too big to be ignored for another decade or become a partisan issue.

Suggestions:

If the National Party does not believe in GW, stop drought relief.

Any member of parliament over 60 should be ineligible to vote on the issue. It's easier for them to bet against GW - they're not going to be around when the worst happens.
Greg Wootton
# Greg Wootton
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:47 AM
Ah Malcolm,

You were a very poor leader and this outburst shows that you are used to getting your own way.

If your policy had stayed it would have been a bloodbath at the weekend. Leave politics and go back running a company, your King Mal approach is accepted there.
Martin
# Martin
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:47 AM
Good on you, Malcolm.

Nice to get a glimpse of the Liberals as a party of rationality, before what may be a long trip into the wilderness...
Paul M
# Paul M
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:47 AM
What would be the thing to do is for the Coalition parties to regroup as Liberals and Conservatives, and let Australians tell them whose ideas they really support. The Liberals would take up the middle ground, which has been the property of Labor in recent years. The Conservatives, over time would contract to an ultra right wing party that few modern Australians would support.
Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 AM
What an ego! Malcolm what we need is an informed debate. Your mistake is that you were fooled by Kevin Rudd into supporting the need for a hasty decision on a poorly explained system. No one doubts your climate change beliefs but you've had your time. Either shut up or quit the Liberal Party.
Hopenhagen
# Hopenhagen
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:52 AM
For all those INTERESTED in a POSITIVE outcome from the Copenhagen meeting , the United Nations have a web site and facebook page blog etc.
"" H O P E N H A G E N ""
http://www.hopenhagen.org/

Climate sceptics , as you were , heads in sand this its just a media beat up with EVERY world leader attending to discuss the topic that aBBOT and the secptics are advocating does not exist .

********** WELL DONE MALCOLM ************ spot ON
41 / 42 could be interesting if this is given a good coverage.
David Suzuki and many others have been reporting on man made the climate problems for 20 years . At a time when we all need an honest political approach we have 7 sceptics with loud voices and the flat earth brigade being followed by some very weak MP'S in the Liberal party .


John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM
Malcolm,
When Abbott and the Minchinite Liberal Party lose the next election, you should have another tilt at the leadership.
The opportunity might even come sooner. Let's see how Abbott fares in the polls over the next six months.
fehowarth
# fehowarth
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:54 AM
Public opinion is not always right. This so call opinion can also change. Mr. Abbott and his ilk set the ground rules for the future. They cannot deny others what they claimed for themselves the right to speak out. I have no brief for Mr. Turnbull but in this case he maybe right. Give Mr. Abbott time and he will put his foot into it by making comments as in the past, but people for the time being and listening to him. There appears to be no loyalty or morality in the modern fay Coalition. Anything goes as long as you have the strength and are willing to bully.
Matt Holden
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:54 AM
Hear, hear, Malcolm. If only Kevin Rudd could explain the issue so succinctly and clearly. It’s time the people who want to take action on climate change weren’t afraid to spell out the costs of action -- and the costs of inaction. Rudd -- or whoever is going to do something about this -- needs to be up-front and honest and not take people for idiots. As for Abbott, I don’t think anyone can take him seriously on this issue -- without some kind of market mechanism -- tax or trading scheme -- he is left with a very Big Government approach as his only option, including, presumably, foisting nuclear power on Labor electorates close to existing power generation infrastructure (I am thinking the Latrobe Valley, for example). That or fiddling at the edges and waiting for someone else to do something ... Keep it up --
Colin North
# Colin North
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:54 AM
Your title was great. Then you proceeded to choke discussion. Australians are not sceptics, they just need to understand the problem and the options.

Rather than tearing your political party to pieces. Contribute to the discussion. Too much is written obout the characteristics of the players rather than the issue(s) at hand.
Thom
# Thom
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:55 AM
Fight the Barstards
eddiepscetti
# eddiepscetti
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:57 AM
Many Liberals are rightly dismayed that on this vital issue of climate change we are not simply without a policy..


You mean, "A few Liberals are rightly dismayed", right? How is anyone supposed to make an intelligent decision on the ETS when our leaders don't fully understand it?

We have given our opponents the irrefutable, undeniable evidence that we cannot be trusted.


We have given our opponents the irrefutable, undeniable evidence that we won't be bamboozled by mumbo jumbo.. There, I fixed that for you.
Ian in Bondi
# Ian in Bondi
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:58 AM
Australia needs the "Syphilis" vs "Gonorrhea" choice between the 2 major parties to evolve as the population becomes more diverse. I expect your politics, which seem more aligned with the UK Tory / David Cameron party, actually do represent the majority in your seat of Wentworth.
So how to reclaim the Liberal party for the progressive, centre-right ? How to drive the religious crusader/jihadi believers and hypocrites off to the Nationals, or some new fascist, reactionary, demagogue group.
Unlike a fish, the Labor party will rot from the a*se up, but will remain in power without a credible opposition that represents the broader population (refer NSW politics).
Pat
# Pat
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:58 AM
Couldn't agree more Malcolm. Its about time Australia had a little L liberal party/voice, instead of a faction driven Labor party and a conservative dominated Coalition.
Jon James
# Jon James
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM
Mr Turnbull, I am not a Wentworth voter (I live in Bradfield) but I would love to see you as the Independent Member for Wentworth. You are a liberal but your party has for many years been consistently Conservative rather than liberal. What can you really achieve for this country by associating yourself with a group of poll-driven, racist, neo-con, religious fundamentalists who somehow manage to believe that the findings of the vast majority of climate scientists are "far from definitive proof" of human induced global warming?
mik
# mik
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:01 PM
Even if the climate change is "crap", is it not a good idea to change the way we are so dependent on fossil fuel for our development? Because everyone know fossil will not not last forever. Or maybe , Senator Minchin think oil will always be available.?
Imogen Daly
# Imogen Daly
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:01 PM
Dear Malcolm,

What a disgraceful outburst. You are white-anting your own party because you didn't get your way. You should cross the floor and publicly join Rudd and his 'bullshit' because you are doing such a good job at selling it for him. All your 'negotiations' and time spent working closely with Rudd on his absurd ETS scheme, simply improved it by lessening the number of jobs that would be lost. In other words, you were helping him to dump a horrendous tax scheme upon all Australians. I ask you, where is the alternative government/Prime Minister in that? Your role was not that of a lawyer negotiating an amicable outcome for all, for goodness sake, you were meant to be a STRONG OPPOSITION LEADER, presenting viable alternative government policies - not polishing the rubbish policies cooked up by the Rudd puppets. Abbott has come out and said what most Australians are thinking, and I for one am relieved to see the Coalition at last behaving like the strong entity it once was and Australia now needs. You can slander Abbott and the Coalition all you like Malcolm, but it will only serve to destroy your own reputation and after achieving so much in your career and your life despite the struggles you have had since you were a little boy, I think the need for reflection now is high.

Best regards.
Tony Khairy
# Tony Khairy
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:02 PM
Malcolm you have proven that you are a true looser.
Particularly so that you are now a disgruntled back bencher loosing your life long dream of becoming a PM of Australia. What is even more significant and worrying is the fact that you continue to ignore the accurate science concerning climatic changes which proves that earth goes through cycles of different kind and times but instead you support that manmade pollution is so significant and a contributor to a fabricated problem, and I stress fabricated because you are backing up a deceitful, dishonest and corrupt scientists who were recently exposed in the UK, who initially were at the forefront of telling us that we are responsible for the climatic change before their emails and dishonest work was uncovered. Do you know what happened to most of them they resigned, and if you have any bit of respect left for yourself and family you would do he honourable thing and that is to resign.
Rick
# Rick
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:03 PM
Only time will tell who is right and wrong in this debate, but when you were leader of the Liberal Party you desired loyalty from the other members. I don't believe you should be speaking out in the manner that you are, It implies sour grapes and your credibility goes out the window.
grumpie grannie
# grumpie grannie
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:03 PM
This is an interesting phenomenon- and one to be applauded

In the past at Federal level we had to wait for intelligent men like Malcolm Fraser to break free and let the nation know in their retirement what they had always been capable of ie rational discourse, compassion, integrity

Here is an opportunity to make your mark on history by engineering a quantum shift in Oz politics- is it possible to be a Federal politician and model the powerful message that you don't need to wait to leave office before shedding the polly-speak to speak honestly from a sound, balanced and altruistic values base?

I (and probably thousands like me) would really like to see that!

James
# James
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:04 PM
Malcolm, what ever happened to party solidarity? If the time had been taken to have the debate over climate change in the months and weeks leading up to the legislation debate then maybe it would not have appeared such a shambles at the end. Holding a gun (and an artificial deadline) to people's heads just raises questions. The issue for the Liberals now is not who is leading, but how are they going to be a strong opposition, question policies and encourage debate. Unfortunately all that was seen was before behind the scene deals and negotiations with government. Never forget the people you are representing and that leadership is bringing people along with you on your views, not forcing them to do something they don't understand.
Ben Gray
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:05 PM
It's a good thing you're taking this whole "not-the-leader-anymore" thing on the chin and not acting like a giant baby.
Oh wait, you are.
I'm not a Climate Change skeptic, I'm a skeptic of whether the ETS was the right thing to do, and you wouldn't even allow it to be delayed until after Copenhagen, which is all anyone really wanted.
But you go ahead and act like a baby, people love that in a leader.
Somewhere there is a bat and ball missing it's pouting child.
Mark
# Mark
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:05 PM
Let's get some home truths, Malcolm.
First, why do we have to "dramatically cut emissions"? Prove it is the cause and maybe we will back you and your magical ETS tax
.
Second, climate change is not crap, it is fact. What is crap is that man has caused it. What is further crap is Australia taking massive pain for no gain. A country like us, whose entire economy relies on digging up or burning something can't be a martyr to climate change zealots like yourself. Why, with all your riches, none of this will impact you anyway, so why not impose it on the proliteriat?!

Third, if you didn't know it was a ploy to win votes, then what land were you living in? Howard was the master of making public policy that got him the most votes; can you say "children over-board"?

The sad fact is Malcolm, you were on the abyss of assigned the death knell to the Liberal party, just like the Ms Lees' Democrats did when they agreed to pass the GST and were seen as the toadies of the government.

Here's an idea, why not resign and take up a position on Rudd's climate change religious synod? Some of your previous colleague's have no problem doing it!
Rotem
# Rotem
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:07 PM
You write: 'to use a favourite term of Mr Abbott, "bullshit."'
Mr Abbott was overheard saying it publicly only once, and even then it was not meant for public consumption and it was over a very minor issue.
Your "bullsh#t" is said in a very public manner, over probably the most important issue in the coming election between Liberals and Labor.
Also: at the same time of using such language about your own party's policy, you warmly endorse Labor's policy. And you a are Liberal, or supposed to be.
If you want you can start your own party (Labor, while very compatible to your views, will never touch such an un-loyal person as yourself), but this is not on.
Matt
# Matt
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:08 PM
Coming from a Bankster it's not surprising you want an ETS.

Co2 isn't a pollutant! Co2 isn't a pollutant! Co2 isn't a pollutant!
jackadandyrose
# jackadandyrose
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:08 PM

The Story of Cap & Trade:

http://vimeo.com/7908590

everyone needs to watch this to learn about what Rudd & Turnbull are fighting to push through into law.

its all money-making & deception. and bound to fail to cut emissions enough to save the planet.
Simon
# Simon
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:10 PM
Malcolm you really are sore loser! Your popularity was at 14% of which 100% would have been hard core liberals. Therefore seeing you have alienated them, your popularity is now 0. Time to save the little credability you still have for another day don't you think!
Paul Romas
# Paul Romas
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:11 PM
Malcolm,

You seem surprised about the Liberal party's (not liberal party) current position on climate change. I do not understand why, everybody knows the Conservative Party of Australia aren't fair dinkum on this. We all watch the news 55-28 voted in the partyroom against passing the Government's bills; that's a landslide! And Nick Minchin, as you know, even flagged the possibility that the Liberals would act in bad faith anyway.

Why so surprised?
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:13 PM
I have to be frank. I've never liked the Liberal party. Largely every Liberal leader I've ever seen has been to my mind, an egotistical, corrupt servant of the greedy and heartless in this country. The Labour Govt's ETS was too timid, too ineffectual to do much of any value for our environment, and the amendments only served to water it down even further.

That being said, you got robbed. At least you were taking some measure of a stand on the environment. Now the Wingnut and his fellow Minchinites are at the helm. Your party has been led by them away from a path of relevance and taking a necessary stand, onto the ramshackle byway of lunacy, greed and cruelty.

Do not stop giving these backward-looking, blinkered fools hell.
Michelle Jubant
# Michelle Jubant
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:14 PM
Malcolm, you are right, we have to do something, but this ETS will do NOTHING to benefit climate change. It will reward the big polluters and has been shown to be ineffective in Europe. Why you as leader of the opposition wanted to promote Kevin Rudd on the world stage is unfathomable. The debate needs to be had. This Tax must be clarified for the people. You were thrown out because you were stifling the debate.

Go ahead. Cross the floor in Februrary - but when you do, maybe you should consider staying there.
Jennifer Fuller
# Jennifer Fuller
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:14 PM
Glad to see you fighting back, we need another party to vote for now.
How about another party?
With a credible ETS we already on the path to 4 degrees rise in temperature.
We absolutely need to do something now.
Andy Semple
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:14 PM
In case you all missed it.

Ed Begley Jr. ClimateGate Global Warming Rant

Check the youtube link at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIl2gdDtbCg
Morgan
# Morgan
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:14 PM
Malcolm,

It's time to resign from the liberal party mate. You are no longer wanted.

BYE!!

Terrence Baxter
# Terrence Baxter
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:14 PM
Malcom, You do yourself or conservative politics no discernible good whatsoever with this sort of public denunciation of your 'elected' leader.

I'm not involved with politics at all, merely a observer who votes. I can vote for a party with policies that I may not strictly agree with, its about looking at the entire catalog of policies that most people assess their vote! I cannot however bring myself to vote for a party where blatant disloyalty such as this is promulgated, especially by a former leader who demanded this sort of crap be stooped.

The climate debate will continue, and outside of politics the true level ground will be established, and action taken. It will be taken on rational grounds by people who vote (like me).

I will vote for my local liberal candidate (currently Chris Pearce) at the next election, if (and only if) he can display character attributes of loyalty and integrity better that what you have displayed here!

It saddens me to see someone with your capacity and skill sinking below that of your opponents (or should I say party members). Leaders lead no matter what their status or position, and in this you have faild the fundamental test of a leader.

Good luck with the future!
Sebastian Gurciullo
# Sebastian Gurciullo
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:15 PM
Well done Malcolm. I am not a Liberal voter, never have been and never will be, but I applaud your efforts on this, the issue that will in the years and decades ahead of us, will be the defining issue of at least one if not more generations. On this issue, people of sincere conviction, regardless of their usual political preferences, will need to come together to form new coalitions in order to defeat the ideological dinosaurs and flat-earthers (plenty of them in the Labor party) that still lurk in every political corner, and whose political methodology on this issue is: more of the same, delay, confusion, obfuscation, and ... bullshit!
Myeviltwindidit
# Myeviltwindidit
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:15 PM
Wow.........

Why are you so determined to become the Liberal Latham?

Feel free to fade away quietly Malcolm.

You have been weighed, measured and found wanting.

We do not want you. Deal with it.
Frank Smith
# Frank Smith
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:15 PM
Yes, it is true, Tony Abbott did publicly express dissenting views while you were leader. Not good form, I agree. But, to my knowledge, he never spoke publicly in the extraordinarily childish, disloyal and personally vindictive way you have in this blog. Keep behaving like this Malcolm and your party room colleagues are unlikely ever to vote for you again. But I suspect you are in such pain right now that you just couldn't give a shit and will happily bight the hand that got you a seat in Federal Parliament. Malcolm, the bottom line is that you could not and will never be able to remake the Coalition in your own ideological image. You should have joined the ALP.
Alison
# Alison
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:17 PM
Imogen, what you should have said was" What a disgraceful way to conduct yourselves!" And I am talking about Minchen and his buddies...if I recall, Minchin was dead set against ratifying Kyoto and put the hard word on Howard much against Hill's conviction...Why is it that the fossil fuels, EITE supporters have been allowed to brandish their dirty ways....yet you waste your time having a go at someone who tried desperately to get Australia to be a good global citizen, change the way we do business, change the way we live in order to preserve the palnet.... but no, you simply want to denegrate this man's character. What Ajoke! I have never been more ashamed of being AUsdtrlain that when I witnessed the shanigans that went on in our Federal parliament...it was a joke. The ETS argument has been around for well over 10 yrs...oh the LIbs are just now deciding to pan it! I think not! They are simply politically hungry nanny goats and I for one will never vote for them again. I do not trust them one iota...neither should you!!!
Jeremy C Browne
# Jeremy C Browne
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:17 PM
How much will a birthday cake be under the ETS Malcolm??? Two dollars?
Five dollars? Ten dollars? You should be ashamed of yourself for endorsing another GST on top of the existing one but with the rider that the price for everyday items will be constantly on the move, at the whim of carbon speculators. You are ab absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to the party.
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:19 PM
You may be correct Mr Turnbull but shame on you for weakening the liberal party further. The top priority of your party should be to defeat Kevin Rudd before he completely ruins Australia like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown has Britain. A bankrupt country will not be able to support the transistion to a carbon free economy, nor will one with uncontrolled population growth and immigration. The easiest way to decrease our carbon emissions is to maintain Australia's population at its current levels, something which will hardly happen if Rudd continues his plans to increase the population to 35 million.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Humans talk about climate change lots when they've just had a heatwave or a bushfire or a warm winter, but throw in a cold winter and humans start talking about something else. Greenland apparently used to be green and not covered in ice, Ask a meteorologist how many milimetres the ocean has actually risen in the past ten years? If you wanted to heat a planet made up of 75% deep water, increasing co2 in the air around it probably isnt the best way of doing it. Just as taxing families on everything they do wont make it rain in Dubbo.

Malcolm has become a single issue politician - and he let Kevin the Rudd off bigtime with all the debt mountain, which is still there, just ask Costello. That issue has been forgotten now so Labor scores 1, Libs nil. Lots of labor supporters are encouraging Malcolm to speak his mind and keep up the fight. Maybe they'll get their wish and Rudd will continue to sail along without a problem
Simon from Sydney
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:21 PM
Just one word: disgraceful.

You should resign from the Liberal party and join the party you are far more suited to: Labor.
Clint Walsh
# Clint Walsh
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 PM
If you felt this way before you imploded you should have resigned and and campaigned on these views. Its obviously more important to you than any other
political consideration. I want Rudd out. I want Australia to take action in proportion and in concert with other countries. I want you to give it up.
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:22 PM
Dear Malcolm
THANKYOU for standing up to Abbot, Minchin and the rest. I have made it my business to be as informed and educated as possible on the Climate issue. (reading, lectures, science mags, essays..)

I understand people can believe anything... star signs...ghosts....whatever....even really intelligent, really smart people.... especially.... if their self belief or self interest is at stake. And sceptics have the veal of religious fanatics so are a very dangerous force.
I am listening to the scientists and those who have done rigorous research. Not the opinions of the mob.
I will back you on this 100%.
And for those who see this as affront to their Liberal sensibilities. This issue is beyond politics and it will be the insurance industry that will most likely bring you to your senses.
Raphael Hythloday
# Raphael Hythloday
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
Turnbull's a joke. Can anyone really doubt anymore that he white-anted Prime Minister Howard the same way he has white-anted Costello, and before him, Nelson?

Thank God he'll never be Prime Minister.
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
I also find the number of deniers on here scary. I find it scary that you consider a couple of leaked out-of-context emails and fatuous graphs the quality of those of Bolt/Fielding more persuasive than the vast body of evidence lying ignored about you.

Tsk tsk Libs. What will you say when the waves are lapping at your feet? Oh that's right, it'll be your kids and grand-kids problem. I forgot that the Coalition is the party of rampant selfishness.

Maybe Malcolm, you should get to a lifeboat before your party sinks into its own insanity.
Raphael Hythloday
# Raphael Hythloday
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
Turnbull's a joke. Can anyone really doubt anymore that he white-anted Prime Minister Howard the same way he has white-anted Abbott, and before him, Nelson?

Thank God he'll never be Prime Minister.
Robert
# Robert
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
Malcom,
An ETS is in theory a cost efficient way of achieving a phased reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, but in practice it has to be supported by complex regulations and a costly bureacracy to administer it. That is exactly what Labor's CPRS is, along with its supporting national greenhouse accounting scheme. And then, how can you possibly accurately quantify carbon credits? If anything the CPRS is the biggest piece of "magic pudding" ever devised. Furthermore the targets are so meagre that they are not even worth considering. I think it is a disgrace that you failed to come up with a credible alternative while leader. And so what it Howard had an ETS at the last election? He was desperate.

If you are serious about doing something to mitigate the adverse effects of greehouse emissions you would commence immediately to replace our coal power stations with nuclear. That would achieve drastic cuts to our domestic emissions within 10 years, far more than an ETS would do in 50 years. The matter of our fossilised energy exports and imports needs to be examined in a global context.
Ian
# Ian
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
I have great doubts that an ETS is the smartest way to tackle climate change. It smacks of a complex system that will result in lots of bureaucrats and an inefficient system. However of greatest concern is the dinosaurs in the liberal party who still doubt climate change. Its resulted in the debate not being about the best way to tackle climate change but an internal feud in the liberal party. As much as it pains me I could not vote for the Liberals if there was an election tomorrow. For the sake of my children I would prefer a faulty system to tackle climate change to no system at all. I can only thank Nick Minchin for revealing that he is a climate change denier – at least I know they can never be trusted to take this issue seriously.
DH
# DH
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:23 PM
Well done Malcolm. As you have no-doubt observed there is a yawning gulf in the centre-right of politics that the Liberal ("conservative") party regrettably seems in no hurry to attempt fill.

Perhaps the time has come for a new political force in Australian life? A potent third-way that can marry the forces of Liberal economic management with the moral imperatives to act with principle on issues such as climate change and asylum seekers. It is not just North Shore "soccer mums" and "doctor's wives" crying out for such a change, but the community as a whole. The LPA has been de-based by the religious right and the radical climate-change deniers such as Minchin who are beholden to incumbent industry heavy-weights and conservative ideologies that never let the facts stand in the way of a good argument.

If the Liberal Party is unable to change from within, then perhaps change from outside is what is required. A modern day Don Chipp is needed and I am wondering whether you will be the bearer of the torch?
allan mason
# allan mason
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:24 PM
Congratulations Mr Abbott. Suck it up Turnbull. I can picture you wiping the tears from your eyes as you typed that rubbish. I'm disgusted that a self confessed leader would behave in such a childish manner on a public forum such as this. Mr Abbott is your boss. Show him some respect. Mr Abbott took your job. Thank God. Emissions Trading TAX is Bullshit. The dribble at that you spued on this blog is a perfect example why your so called peers sacked you. You lost Turnbull. Mr Abbott won and so did Australia.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:24 PM
When Abbott won, some commentators claimed that the Liberal Party had just elected its own version of Mark Latham. In actual fact, the Party had just removed him.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:25 PM
Well at least one good thing has come from all of this - a member of parliament who is willing to speak his mind regardless of party politics and policy. Raise hell and good on you - this comes from a Labour voter who regrets the fact that the opposition seems to have lost a leader with some integrity.

To all those who expect some sort of 'loyalty' from a former leader - grow up - if you were in a position where you believed strongly in something would you tow the line and just put up? - the world needs more fighters who are willing to risk 'credibility' in the line of doing what they believe is right and good for all of us.

Mick
# Mick
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:25 PM
Rather disgraceful and unprincipled for a former Leader who no doubt professes at least some hypothetical allegiance to the Liberal Party,to resort to such childish and petulant behavior.How is this helping the Party?
But this seems typical of your"scorched earth policy ".
When you lose,- a desperate attempt to justify yourself and inflict maximum damage on the retreat.
Tony Abbott would never resort to such tactics and never called any of your policies "bullshit".
Best for you to resign from the Liberal Party.Very disappointing.
Paul Hassing
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:29 PM
Dear Malcolm. I vote green. Apart from John Howard banning guns, this is the only time I've been impressed with something a Liberal person has said. Bloody good on you! Best regards, Paul. :)
john
# john
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:29 PM
what a terrible rant that is. you need to swallow your pride. give Abbot and the Liberal party a chance to defeat Rudd. I have no respect for you.
Black Russian
# Black Russian
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:30 PM
Please Malcom, enough of you to be honest.
Just resign and go and setup a new party or just join Labor.

Lee
# Lee
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:31 PM
I'm a Labor voter, but a cautious one who knows the importance of a Senate that isn't a rubber stamp, and the importance of an intelligent, coherent and strong opposition that holds propsed legislation up to the light of rational, principled analysis.

Your stand on principle has been the one bright spark in a very gloomy week.

Against my own biases I have been increasingly impressed with your abilities.

Cross the floor for God's sake. And PLEASE don't be run out of parliament by the troglodytes. If you and others like you stay the course there is a reason to regard the Liberal Party as a viable alternative government. Without you there is every reason to see the small 'l' liberal disappear and the hard right ideologues kill the party off for years to come.

I voted for Rudd. But I know we SERIOUSLY need a viable opposition to keep him honest, and rein in his hunger for power and his arrogance.
peter kevin
# peter kevin
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:35 PM
I am a labor voter and was totally against your grubby grab for power with ute gate.
that said, your stance on ETS is to be admired.That you were done in by Minchking and his henchmen is really sad for Australia as Abbott hasnt a clue what to do about this issue, especially as he has had many contradicting positions.
The bielections proved nothing as the ALP didnt run any candidates.if they did, we would have seen swings away from the Libs.
Time for the thinkers of the Libs to break away from the deniers and narks.
Maria
# Maria
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:36 PM
Bad luck to your global banking pals at Goldman Sachs and the stock exchange who would have made a fair penny out of the ETS. They must be disappointed in you. Maybe you can join the Labor Party who seem more sympathetic to global rather than national issues.
Roger
# Roger
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:36 PM
History repeating itself here. Once a sook always a sook......no wonder they got rid of you. Just go away Mal.....there is no point in burning down the house as you leave. You aint stayin' so just pi$$ Off! Take your bat and ball and get lost!
Dave
# Dave
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:36 PM
So You're still Kevin's Patsy.

I will never understand why you make the case for Labor policy. It gives them a free ride.

It's over for you mate, you're not going to get another turn. I hope you get rolled for preselection
anonymous
# anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:36 PM
Good on you Malcolm, stick with your principles and you'll never go wrong.
ROBERT GRIESHABER
# ROBERT GRIESHABER
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:37 PM
WITHOUT PREJUDICE.
NOW WE CAN WATCH MR.RUDD PAINT HIM SELF INTO,4 CORNER'S
SIC--ABC
THIS IS MORE FUN THAN CHESS. According to specific rules; the object is to checkmate the opponent's King. PAWN’S don't do all that much.
Game over.
CHECK MATE?.
PLEASE ENYOY YOUR NEXT GAME.
YOU are right CLIMATE GHANGE (CARBON,MAN MADE) is bullsh$t,but bullsh$T is good for the garden.
BUT WAIT,THE SCIENCE HAS BEEN Settled,. IN GOOD FAITH.
WHEN WILL THE PENNY DROP?.
QUESTION.
Is it illegal to aid and abet a scam or fraud.RE-FIRE POWER-etc -etc-etc
RE HACKED E-MAILES. CLIMATE-GATE. BIG NEWS OVER SEAS.AUS?,
THE USA WILL LOOK INTO THIS.
MR.RUDD ONLY GOT IN TO GET RID OF THE BAD IR LAWS. THE ETS WILL GET HIM OUT.BRING ON THE BIG VOTE,RUDD AND THE GREEN'S WILL GET A BIG SHOCK.
---psyops-- Planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups, and individuals. The purpose of psychological operations is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to the originator's objectives.
Also read the full text of the Lima Declaration.
Ajender 21
RE- NOT MADE IN AUSTRALIA ANYMORE IMPORTED -------- OR ----- TOP QUALITY MADE IN CHINA.
YOU CAN BOIL A FROG (VOTER, WORKER) ------SLOWLY.
WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
Toby Fiander
# Toby Fiander
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:37 PM
How is that people think loyalty to a party or its leader is a higher ethical responsibility than to resist the manslaughter of people on the other side of the world?

How is it that people think there is actually time to think interminably, when we have come so late to do something effective about achieving a low carbon economy?

Some time soon, those who prevaricate, but continue to think about global warming, are going to have one of those "Oh Shit" moments, and realise that there is no time to lose and that effective schemes should have been implemented years ago.

Keep up the good work, Malcolm. History will deal more kindly with you than some of the people who blog here.
# Rex
# # Rex
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:40 PM
Reply to Nathan (11.15am)

A few years ago (late 70's or early 80's I think) scientists warned that a large hole had been discovered in the 'Ozone Layer' in the atmosphere above the pacific.
They were so concerned that they pleaded with industry to reduce gas emmisions,even to the extent of asking manufacturers to change gases used in refrigeration etc., They told us this 'hole' would mainly affect Australia, New Zealand, The Pacific Islands and the Antartic region. They considered it would cause an increase in skin cancer, longer and more severe drought periods, rising sea levels, the melting of ice glaciers, and unpredicable changes in the climatic throughout the South Pacific.
At the time, I, Like yourself was skeptical - but seems to me there is no doubt who was right...

simon
# simon
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:40 PM
Your determined to either Lead or destroy huh.

Heres the order of thinking for a real leader; Nation, party, self. You are all backwards...

Look at this blog. Look at the responses you get. You think these are Liberal voters egging your destructiveness forward?

Wake up. You are smarter than that.
Michael Lewisham
# Michael Lewisham
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:40 PM
The thing that you, Tony Abbott, Julia Gillard and all the many legally-trained sophists that infect parliamentary democracies don't seem to understand is that the sun and the earth aren't so easily persuaded by your head games and eloquent argumentation. Either global warming is or isn't a reality. Either humans can make a meaningful difference or they can't.

Why don't you lawyers and all your easily swayed language groupies keep your mouths shut for once and let your brains do some thinking.
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:40 PM

Good luck to you, Malcolm

There's never any progress without defeating conservatives.

The majority is behind you. Challenge at the first opportunity.
Julian Wearne
# Julian Wearne
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:43 PM
Glad to see you hold to your convictions Malcom. The Liberal Party need to get real with the climate change issue and whilst the ETS might indeed be heavily flawed at least it acknowledges that there does need to be some sacrifice when dealing with cutting down emissions. It will be interesting to see what sort of joke "solution" Abbott offers in the coming months.
Julian Wearne
# Julian Wearne
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:43 PM
Glad to see you hold to your convictions Malcom. The Liberal Party need to get real with the climate change issue and whilst the ETS might indeed be heavily flawed at least it acknowledges that there does need to be some sacrifice when dealing with cutting down emissions. It will be interesting to see what sort of joke "solution" Abbott offers in the coming months.
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:43 PM
Earth to Malcolm. Dude, you are no longer the leader. Time to tow the party line or become an independent. All you are doing is showing how self interested you are. You had a go, but didn't quite get their. Time to move on. It's not like you don't have any other options. Graceful in defeat will earn you more respect in the history books than throwing grenades into Tony's camp. Go spend some time with Lucy and the kids. That's where you focus should turn.
dave price
# dave price
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:45 PM
MALCOLM PULL YOUR HEAD IN .LET SOMEONE WITH SOME GOOD OLD AUSSIE SPIRIT HAVE A GO ALREADY HIS GOT HIGHER POLL RESULTS THAN YOU EVER GOT.GO CROSS THE FLOOR AND STAY THERE. YOU LIKE RUDD ARE FULL OF BULLSHIT
DO A POLL ON THIS SITE AND SEE THE RESULTS
paul from QLD.
# paul from QLD.
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:45 PM
Malcolm you are So So wrong in your support for an ETS ( EXTRA TAX SLUG) Thank God the Coalition has Tony .............. Malcolm you are now nothing in the eye's of the majority of Coalition Voters.
Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:46 PM
Take your bat and ball and go play with Latham. Better still ask Kevvy if you can join his party. You'll fit right in - until you don't get your own way then you'll run away sooking, just like you always have.

The Liberals would be better off without you.
Jeremy
# Jeremy
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:47 PM
Malcolm
Stand as a Labor Candidate for Wentworth at the next election. Then get Ruddy to replace that goose Garrett with you on the front bench. Then we might get the environment/climate policy we need. Good on you, mate - I wouldn't be putting up with all this tripe if I were in your position (well, I'd be retired!) and good luck.
Sue
# Sue
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:49 PM
Mr Turnbull

Some questions for you:

1. From where did you get your information with regards your certainty that the planet is going through a dangerous warming period?
I hope it wasn't from the IPCC reports as they have been muddled and manipulated, to say the least. You might like to look at this link to better inform your stance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8&feature;=player_embedded

Its quite long, 90 minutes, but not when compared to the countless years that Australia will be committed to enduring if the wrong system is introduced., then it is only short!

2. Are you aware of the hacking of the CRU and the apparent manipulation of scientific data in an attempt to exaggerate the effects of global warming? What is your assessment of the importance of this leaked information?

3. Would you ever change your mind about an issue if facts were presented that discredited your point of view?

3. Are you connected in any way to any businesses that will stand to make the most money out of an ETS?

4. Would you ever consider stepping down rather than destabilising the Party?

5. Are you aware that many bloggers who appear to support you on this Blog are actually Labor Party voters who love the fact that you are creating waves for the new leader?

6. How did you interpret the Party room 55 - 29 vote against the ETS vote last week? Did you interpret that it was a support for the ETS, is so, how so?

I am a genuine Liberal voter and as such I am genuinely concerned for the Party . I am also concerned for your mental health at this time.
Anthony
# Anthony
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:52 PM
Thank you Marie/DH et al. I heartily support your views.
I too joined the Liberal Party at University. For me it was the only party with integrity; a party which had the right mix of compassion for those needing looking after and the guts and brains to run the country. The Liberal Party was a true 'broad church' mainly of people who had wide experience in the community and were thus in touch with real core values of the nation.
No more! Today our party has been hijacked by zealots, rednecks and party hacks; young Turks who think nothing of stooping to the lowest trick and dirtiest lie - think posting Nazi videos to attack their colleagues. We don't need these people - go and form your own party of hate - what we need is more people of integrity like Malcolm and his team.
Incidentally, if you doubt my comments, just read the barely literate hate mongering above. Be off with you foul lot!

Anthony, Woollahra and a proud Turnbull supporter.
dr00
# dr00
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:55 PM
Are you still making noise? Mate, you're a labor politician. If you would just accept that you could probably be a good politician for them. You've now become a sad, bitter little man who has stopped trying to create and is now trying to destroy. That's a shame.
Anthony
# Anthony
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:56 PM
I'm NOT a traditional Liberal voter but if you keep speaking this honestly and can back up the words with action (independent or new party?) I'm starting to think that I could seriously get engaged.

Cheers

Anthony
Vince
# Vince
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:56 PM
Malcolm, I hope against hope that after the failure at Copenhagen the world will finally start to understand that the Climate Change thing is a ruse.

Then people like you will have to make excuses for being part of the problem, not part of the wrong solution.

I so hope someday the Australian press will start to report the news, not make the news..

I think I will be very disappointed.
cassi lane
# cassi lane
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:57 PM
Wake Up Malcolm.The positive comments on this blog are coming from
rusted on ALP hacks.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:57 PM
I applaud you Malcolm for you stance on Climate Change/Disruption and the ETS. Even though you are no longer the leader you are showing outstanding leadership on this very important issue. I believe the ETS is only just the beginning of what is required to tackle Climate Change/Disruption. Unfortunately the Liberal Party has rendered itself totally irrelevant with the election of Mr Abbott last week. People might complain about what the ETS will cost them but at this stage it a cost that the community can pay. If action doesn't happen soon on a world wide it will be impossible to restore the climate. No amount of money will make any difference. We need to stop thinking about our own interests and think of the planet - our life support system.
Mr Reality
# Mr Reality
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:57 PM
How embarassing. You couldn't guide a fiercely independent nation down the "gimme" republican path, and you couldn't even make it to a single election as leader. I'd feel pretty shitty about myself too.
Diana Lubis
# Diana Lubis
Monday, December 07, 2009 12:59 PM
Malcolm, congratulations on your determined and rational stance on this issue. It's heartening to see someone acting in the interests of the country and of global futures rather than on narrow party principles, or pure self-interest and power grabs. I really admire your principles, courage and convictions. Diana Lubis
wbb
# wbb
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:01 PM
Good work, Malcolm. You will surf right back on this. Tony will come a gutser.
Patrick
# Patrick
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:01 PM
Wow... I really have to laugh at all the people whinning about towing the party line. Apparently its ok for some people to speak exactly, want they want when they want, to white ant you....but now they are saying its not ok to shoot your mouth off.... they are saying you must now be quiet.... 42-41 doesnt sound like a convincing majority to me.
Shaun
# Shaun
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:01 PM
Mr Turnbull. It is indeed encouraging to note that a Liberal Party might exist that would provide a real alternative to those who do not support rabid social conversativism or extreme climate skepticism. The problem for you is that you cannot win. If you are re-elected leader I suspect the rabid right-wing base of the party will flee.

It's only good for democracy for people to speak up when they believe their party is doing the wrong thing. If only this happened more often from all parties.
Greg Atkinson
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:01 PM
Malcolm stick to banking since have shown over the last few weeks that you are not suited to politics. You appear to have forgotten the people you back-stabbed in your quest for power and now that you have failed you are acting like a spoilt brat.

As for global warming (which has now morphed into climate change) then perhaps you could tell me when you became a man of science?

Do you really think the global warming is the biggest problem human-kind faces?

Maybe you should consider some other "problems" out there: Are climate change and global warming dangerous distractions?
John
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:02 PM
Malcolm

You lost. Get over it. The party is bigger than you. Stop trying to destroy it just because you are bitter. You are rapidly turning into an abusive, sore, irerelevant loser like Mark Latham.

The new leadership has made a great start. The electorate is clearly over you and your Labor policies.

If only you had shown the guts you showed defending Labor policies on Liberal issue such as individual contracts.

I still can't believe that out of sheer arrogance you threw away your leadership, merely to get through Labor's ETS in a specified week of Parliament.

John
Willem Lukas
# Willem Lukas
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:03 PM
Thanks for having a clue, Malcolm.

A Labor voter.
Tim
# Tim
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:03 PM
Dear Mr Turnbull
I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself on this. For the record though I am centre right. I will vote liberal 2 times out of 3 but I firmly believe that a regular stint in opposition is vital.

That said, I am pleased to see democracy in action on this matter and this is a worthy subject for debate. As a scientist I am used to watching non-scientists arguing with great vehemence matters that they (and usually I) don't understand. The arguing doesn't bother me, that's natural and good, the vehemence is not helpful though.

To be honest I had not bothered to work out how I would vote in the next election yet and had not done the work to find out where you stood. I the week leading up your "fall" I began to hear you putting your position and you won my support ... just as it became pointless... for the time being.

I do not believe that Tony is likely to become PM. This is not a reasoned position, just an older person's gut feeling based on watching all the candidates since Holt. I suspect you will get another chance and I will vote for you then.

I am not a climate scientist but it seems unwise to me to take all the CO2 that has been sequestered underground since the beginning of the carboniferous and pop it back into the atmosphere in less than 200 years. Having reached that conclusion it follows that I support the idea of curtailing and eventually ceasing this process. The laws that make that happen will not be perfect in their first incarnation but it is necessary to make a start and continue to revise them until they are having the correct effect.

I am not in the least bit interested in unwinding modern technological society. I take great pleasure in it. But there's more than one way of doing things and we need to begin to explore the alternatives with some determination.

An entirely different (and also not original) take on the whole question is the matter of global power and stability. I believe we are doing the oil producing countries no favours by massively distorting their economies with the flood of oil money. It is also unwise for our economies to be built on a resource which is finite and in the hands of people who are still strongly influenced by social forces that oppose personal freedom. They should be freed from our economic hegemony and allowed to modernise their society in their own way.

Finally, it seems to be taken for granted that the changes being discussed will involve a huge cost - and that's that. Well, things are usually more complex than that - in a good way. New ways of doing things always involve the decline of some industries and the rise of new ones. The old one's struggle noisily and the new ones have not yet appeared to make their case. I see no reason why this time it should be different.

Of course, in the long run what is being discussed is an investment in the future. If we don't make the investment now then the final costs to society will be much, much greater than those currently being contemplated by those who oppose the changes being suggested.
chanlord
# chanlord
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:03 PM
Well said, Malcolm. If I lived in Wentworth, I would absoutely vote for you.
Rach
# Rach
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:03 PM
C'mon Malcolm, defect to Labor....you know you want to.
Nate
# Nate
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:04 PM
Go Malcolm! Start your own party, I'll be behind you all the way!
NM
# NM
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:06 PM
Good on you Malcolm. Well said.

Apart from the simple fact that you are absolutely right about the relative costs of approaches to CC there is no denying that this was a tactical disaster for the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party cannot win on climate change. The best thing would have been to have passed the ETS and gotten it off the front pages and start attacking the ALP on something they can win on. Now it's going to be there all the way to the election to the party's detriment.
Mark Stevens
# Mark Stevens
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:06 PM
Just as your botched attempt at a republic crashed and burnt so will the contrived arrant nonsense that is AGW. take mr abbott on in debate Mal... fat chance, eh? when you cross the floor , stay there as your unswerving loyalty to Goldman sucks is better served.. the fullness of time will reveal you as the egregious cynical snake oil peddler whose seditious machinations were only eclipsed by his trifector of withering losses, need reminding? no I didn`t think so.
PDev
# PDev
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:06 PM
Malcolm, a clear precise summary of the Liberals current position. How any thinking Liberal supporter can vote for the Liberals with Abbott at the helm and climate deniers such as Minchin and Joyce on board leaves me speechless. I agree any policy the Liberal the party comes up with will be total green wash. The time is ripe for a breakaway party with you as its leader that would give Liberals who can think and dissaffected Labour voters a real alternative. The tabloid media such as Bolt and co will cheer on Abbott out in the suburbs and he could actually gain traction -please Malcolm save us from the possibility of the country being led by these right wing zealots.
John Smith
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:07 PM
You're an idiot! betraying your own party.

You know and I know that those emails exposed brought in correspondance that would jepordise this whole thing. Don't trash on your own party's integrity.

If ETS passes, when Anarchy errupts in the streets cause unemployment to soar, I'm sure you will be fine because, like Al Gore, you have invested millions into Carbon offset groups, making you a potential billionaire.

Using Australia jobs to profit your own portfolio...pathetic
Nonni
# Nonni
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:08 PM
Well done Malcom.
Pity Rudd & Co. cannot articulate the for argument as well as you have. Rudd has taken the voting public for granted on the ETS, so he will cop a black eye for his troubles. The point is, we must accept that eventually an ETS of some description WILL be implemented on a world wide basis, like it or not.

The moderates in our party must regain ground lost to the far right. Failure to do so will allow Rudd to push us further to the right, alienating a huge voting block.

Tuckey/Minchin/Bernadi as spokesperson for the Liberal Party anyone?

With the two new members for Bradfield/Higgins and Fran back on her feet, a spill might produce a 44/42, or better, once Copenhagen is out of the way. (Not withstanding the twit that voted NO, sheesh!)

There must be some very nervous sitting Liberals aghast at a looney right ascendancy. The next election could see a number of these decent people lose their seats.
We mustn't become a party of reactionaries in order to differentiate from the other side.

Good luck Malcom and all clear thinking moderates, take back back the party for the good of all Australians.
Randal
# Randal
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:08 PM
You have failed those that elected you Malcolm and you no longer represent the interests of the party or those that elected you. In truth you probably never did.

The reality is Malcolm that the party does not support the ETS, pure, plain and simple, and you do. This is not about whether one believes in Climate Change, it is whether we believe that the ETS would be good for this country and the answer from our members and supporters is a categorical 'NO'.

For evidence of this, the results in Bradfield and Higgins, have confirmed that the parties primary vote was unaffected with Abbotts election as leader.

Malcolm, you are now completely out of step with the party across all key policy areas and now as a high profile member of the back bench you have decided to air acidic attacks aimed purely to destablise the party further.

It is time to go Malcolm, and you should move to an independent in the parliament, and if you wish face the electorate in Wentworth as such, it would be a disaster for both the Liberals and you, but at least then we could limit your damage to one seat only.

So let's see if your are this great man of principle, resign from the party, do the right thing just once, at least then I could say that I held some respect for you, as in the end he did the right thing.
Jill DS
# Jill DS
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:09 PM
Mr Turnbull, move permanently to the Labor Party, as you appear to be working for them in your determination to stir up divisions in the Liberal Party.
I support Tony Abbott 100%.
Pensioneron
# Pensioneron
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:10 PM
Early on I had high expectations of you but alas you have let us all down and the "bullsh*t" quote from you is unbecoming and sounds very much like school yard sour grapes and more like something from a labor hack.
And it may cost you some much needed support in the future.
Definately not one of your better moments
Adam
# Adam
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:10 PM
Mate ; congratulations on taking a principled stand. If only more of your party could do the same. The next years will show you acted in the interest of both country and of planet; and that a Liberal Party may one day rise with enough brains to recognise it. The faster the old Howard acolytes are removed from their positions; the faster that you may get a relevant climate change policy.

Good luck. Keep it up.
Keith
# Keith
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:10 PM
"As we are being blunt, the fact is that Tony and the people who put him in his job..."

As we are being blunt, the "people who put him in his job" are the hundreds of thousands of people (including me) who contacted members of the liberal party telling them that you had to go.

Your rant the week before the spill confirmed that view, and your post here merely reinforces this.
ETS = SCAM
# ETS = SCAM
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:11 PM

Malcolm your dignity destroying actions are becoming more transparent by the day.
You serve NOT the Australian people but yourself and you bankster buddies.
Are you now the lobbyist for Goldman Sachs ?
You are behaving like it.
You know that all the ETS does is create a carbon trading market.
A market run by the same bankster criminals that just got multi-trillion dollar bailouts after polluting the world with toxic derivatives.
Your childish rants only serve to prove your mandate to Goldman.
Resign or STFU.
Darren
# Darren
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
I don't believe that anyone disputes that cutting CO2 emissions would be cost free, however, the question is do we actually need an ETS? Much of the science is floored and you lost your leadership on your stubborn stance to force your party to accept Ruddy's plan to rule the world. If you had have remained an "opposition party" you may well have remained the leader.

If the ETS was genuine in saving the planet (why Australia has to do this I don't know) why are there so many concessions for big business to buy their way out of polution reduction? It's simply a scam that you were going to endorse.

I look forward to supporting Mr Abbott
Jo
# Jo
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
I commend your stance and it's encouraging to see a politcian who has the courage of his convictions.
Believe in climate change or not it is obvious that without action NOW,we continue to overtax the earth's resources and we must make a move to solve the problems for future generations.
It will cost but we don't get anything of worth without paying for it so as a young and growing economy we need to show the world that we have the will to do all we can to tackle the problem and not just sit back and hope others will do it for us.

I worry about Tony Abbott's reign and was disappointed to see him take over from you.
Take heart,there are many,like me.
Ken
# Ken
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:15 PM
Malcolm,
what possible good can come of sprouting off like this? Surely, you either contribute to the Party and show a united front or you resign and become an independant. It's true you weren't afforded proper support as leader but two wrongs don't make a right. A lot of conservative voters were looking forward to the future after the turmoil of the past fortnight and, here we go, it's all stirred up again. Rudd must be rubbing his hands in glee.
Nettie
# Nettie
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:17 PM
I am of the opinion that most of the comments supporting Malcolm Turnbull's blatant self indulgent actions in attempting to further divide the Opposition, stem from the pens of Labor voters, because no true Coalition supporter would dream of condoning one who is intent on sabotaging our chances at the next election.

We know who we have to beat at the next election even if Turnbull doesn't. But it's like I always said. Malcolm Turnbull's ego is so great that he will not allow Tony Abbott to succeed where he has failed.

wbb
# wbb
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:18 PM
A lot of good can come from Malcolm doing this, Ken. He can save the Liberal Party from committing itself to political irrelevancy.
Gary Leete
# Gary Leete
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:21 PM
Cath up Mal, read the blogs about the quality of the evidence you have relied on...stop being a sore loser and ...be fair....you stuffed up and would not listen to even your fellow party members let alone the public...you are just like Rudd treating everyone like a dumb fool...we do have an opinion and deserve to be heard. It,s is now becoming quite obvious that you too have your snout in the trough and are only interested in the climate debate for the money...
James
# James
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:21 PM
Nothing is more dangerous than a wounded prima donna.
Nick
# Nick
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM
I just don't understand why you are so wedded to this ETS idea., Malcolm. You wouldn't have interests in carbon trading companies would you, like Al Gore? The IMF believes a carbon tax is the more effective way to go.
I just don't agree with you that Liberal members just don't want to do anything about climate change. We all want to do the 'best' thing, not 'something'. And we haven't had that discussion in this country yet. Poor leadership from politicians like you.
You are sounding very shrill and a bad loser, Malcolm. Your party has rejected your leadership, time for you to be grown up and mature and let the new leadership do its thing. You may have been a good businessman, but you have never been a good politician. That requires a different set of skills that you don't possess. Maybe its time you moved on - or back - to where your skills set is most appropriate.
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM
Dear Sir;

There is nothing like loyalty.

What party are you a member of again?

This is just another nail in your political coffin.

Please do everyone a favour and return to Goldman Sachs.

We know what your agender is and who you represent regarding alleged climate change.

My impression of Tony ABBOTT is that he is a reasonable person who can keep his mouth shut without ridiculing people.

I detect that you are a sore looser.

You lost my respect when you called Bill HENSON's photos of young pre-pubescent girls so called art.

You are definitely not a representative of the people.

You represent big business and people with money.

Do you realise by carrying on this way that you are alienating people from you and the Liberal Party.

The people you are appealing to are Labor voters and swinging voters.

Guess who they will vote for at the next election?

Labor.

I believe you are doing this on purpose; but think intelligent people can see through your transparency.

Good luck; you will never receive my vote.


Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:23 PM
Anyone else finding it funny how many ALP supporters are on here supporting Malcolm?
Bob Mellows
# Bob Mellows
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:24 PM
I would say Mr Turnbull that a majority of the public are in favour of reducing carbon emissions. I would also say a majority of Australians were in favour of the opposition and the Government talking about issues rather than butting heads over everything. Lead on.
Phil
# Phil
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:25 PM
Good work Malcolm.
People who believe in man made climate change are part of a new religion????
This argument comes from people who take their views from the bible. But, if you believe that stuff, it's no wonder you doubt science.
Nick
# Nick
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:27 PM
Malcolm the worst Liberal leader this country has seen.Couldnt lay a glove on that useless Rudd.
Couldn't get Rudd to justify why we should sign up to an ETS before the rest of the worl but actually supported it!!
Could nt explain to the Australian people how much it would cost Australians.
Couldn't make any ground on asylum seekers even while we are being flooded with illegals on a daily basis..
Malcolm,the reason that your own party turned on you is that you are out of touch with the majority of conservatives who support the Liberal party.Your pitiful polling proved that and the first bounce in the polls since you were banished confirm it.
Its obvious you are now out for some revenge and will do whatever you can to do as much damage as you cant to the coalition .
Maybe your mate Rudd can give you a job when you self implode after the next election.
Sandra
# Sandra
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:27 PM
Tut-tut-33% approval rating (his) versus 14% approval rating (yours) - the above comment by the FORMER leader sounds a bit like sour grapes!
If you are REALLY convinced that human emissions are causing 'warming' of the planet, why would you support an ETS legislation that will allow the big polluters to continue polluting while receiving 'compensation' (raised by this ETS tax) over the next 10 years??
By the way astronomers are reporting signs (since 2007) of warming/climate change on several planets in our solar system ... hello! ... anyone home?
If you 'cross the floor' it will make no difference - it's still got to get past the Senate! And the more time passes, the cooler the earth becomes!
David Best
# David Best
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM
Mal, Mal, Mal (mate),

Your recent comment that 'the LP had to have an ETS policy before the next election or you would be decimated' (or words to that effect') was a short term political view. Nothing to do with reducing carbon emissions in the long term.

Your best mate 'stated he would not be voting for Kevin Rudds future elevation to Secretary General at the UN' (or words to that effect); again, a short term political view and nothing to do with reducing carbon emissions in the long term.

Your gutless members in both houses who vaccilate between 'for' and 'against' dependent on what the leaders disposition is on any given day. Well, how short term is their viewpoint on this issue? And what do they really think?

Tony Abbot has now had two bob each way. He is not theologically opposed to nuclear power (as a means to reducing carbon emissions?) and is ordained as, and is a practising preacher of the Church of Coal!

Where do you Liberals stand?
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM
http://popurls.com/pop/
Bob from Geelong
# Bob from Geelong
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM
Malcolm

Once again, you've proven that you are:

1. An egotist extraordinaire
2. A sore loser
3. Unable to look past your personal interests

The sooner you leave public life, the better.


Trisha
# Trisha
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:29 PM
Nettie you are probably right, no true coalition supporter would dream of condoning one who is intent on sabotaging YOUR chances... however no right minded person would ever vote for a party that is full to the hilt with CC sceptics! Tax fear mongering or not!

You (LIBS) cannot gain power again without some of us voting for the LIBS... some of us will never, never ever vote for Tony Abbott, but some of us might have voted for an intelligent person like Malcolm.

Libs/Nats are now showing their true ignorant colours.

Good on you Malcolm for not going quietly, some things are indeed more important then supporting a party that frankly just stabbed you in the back!

;)
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:29 PM
Malcolm needs to play the man and the ball. If we don't modernise the Liberal party and bring it out from last century then the old guard will drag it further and further into obscurity. Malcolm is on the back bench but not on the back foot. He leads the party in forward thinking and has my vote for marking the players that are the most destructive to progress. I suspect Malcolm that you see the next election as just one more step in the cleaning process. I highly doubt it can be won by the Liberal party but its best used to clean house. You are a strategy man and see the long view. Abbott sees only and 4 inches in front of his budgie smugglers. Play the man Malcolm, play him hard and rebuild from a younger modern base for the future.
Liberal-National split
# Liberal-National split
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:31 PM
Split the Liberal and National parties - be honest with the nation and end the marriage of inconvenience.

Move on and start a new party with real drive and vision and a republican focus, Malcolm.

The Liberal Party is not for you - don't waste your time.

All we're seeing now is the fallout of the tyranny of the Howard leadership years. It will be a long time before the party can think for itself long enough and hard enough to develop relevant, timely policy for the good of the country.

In the meantime, there's real issues to deal with - issues that go far beyond who the current leader is. End the farce.
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:32 PM
So Malcolm, now tell us what you think of Julie Bishop. No really, please.
Liberty
# Liberty
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:32 PM
You don't sound like a very good loser Mal and this reflects very poorly on your character.

Are you a member of Climate-gate?

Now for a positive solution...........

"What we need is a National Apology on Climate Change.
Same effect on global emissions as an ETS, but with zero cost."

Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:32 PM
Malcolm, you are entitled to an opinion but here is a scoop...so are others. Your view no longer matches that of your party or the community so get over it. Thankfully others with less ego had the integrity to change the policy to reflect the views of the members.
Nadia Bracks
# Nadia Bracks
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:33 PM
According to Newspoll, 72% of Australians surveyed support the Government's CPRS: http://www.newspoll.com.au/image_uploads/090906%20Carbon%20Pollution%20Reduction%20Scheme.pdf

Great to see you having a go at the dinosaurs in the Liberal Party!

We need you Malcolm, go!
Trevor
# Trevor
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:33 PM
Malcolm, you have always been at your best when you are NOT trying to please the Conservative arm of the 'Liberal' party.

Yes, any form of action on reducing greenhouse gas emissions will cost money. That's half the point!

Even without climate change, it's a waste management issue. We don't let people dump solid waste anywhere they like. We don't let people dump liquid waste anywhere they like. And yet people still insist on believing they can merrily dump gases into the atmosphere for free.
Phil
# Phil
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:35 PM
Well said, you should tell it how it is.
The new leader of the opposition prides himself about speaking frankly and fearlessly.
Climate change is a big issue, seemingly too big for the Liberal Party. Whoever is the leader of a party, much effort has to be put into building consensus, perhaps you didn't do enough, I feel less optimism that Tony will be able to build anything with subtly.
I feel this issue is so big, dare I say we need a radical solution - bipartisanship! If as predicted sea levels rise, the rains stop etc. etc that is what the Australian and the world community will expect.
Stick with it, we the people need a strong alternative voice in the parliament.
Aristotle
# Aristotle
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:35 PM
You tell 'em, Malcom -- Flat-Earthers have no place in the 21st century.
Hard of Hats
# Hard of Hats
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:36 PM
Malcolm,
Gee you really are a team player!
This would have to be the greatest performance of poor sportmanship I have ever witnesed in Australian political history.
Are you sure you are not a labour party Mole?
Best regards
HofH
Anneke
# Anneke
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:36 PM
I'd like to join the majority and say good on you Mr. Turnbull. Even myself, a Labor-supporter for life, can support what you have said in this blog. I think that the Liberal party would do well to listen to you more (as they should have when you were its leader). Keep up the good fight with regards to the environment and climate change, and don't let them bully you into toeing the party line on this.
Len
# Len
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM
I question your integrity when it comes to the carbon reduction trading scheme (scam). It is well known that the major banks such as Chase and lo and behold Goldman Sachs stand to gain trillions over the next ten years with the implementation of these scams in many countries. I feel you do not give a rats damm about Global Warming which I might add is questionable given the evidence. You are there for one thing and one thing only to grab as much as you can with your other Goldman Sach cronies.
Steve
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:40 PM
Malcolm,

If you were SERIOUS about Human Global Warming, you wouldn't TAX it you would simply set "LIMITS" to how much companies can output.

Allowing them to "PAY" to "POLLUTE" isn't going to stop it, the large polluters will just pass that cost onto the consumer.

ETS is nothing more than a money grab.

If YOUR serious about "Man Made Global Warming" with Carbon being the main cause, there wouldn't be an ETS, governments would simply bring in "STRICIT" restrictions like they did for "CFC's".........

Monica
# Monica
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:40 PM
Malcolm - you are nothing but a jerk!! You lost in a contest - you DO NOT speak for country people at all. You have come across as a city slicker who does not have this country at heart. How is it that no one will explain the ETS and just what the costs will be to us - the senior citizens in this country who are getting ripped off hell, west and crooked since all these Labor governments are in place are supposed to just believe in tooth fairies.
I quickly scanned through some comments and one said you joined the wrong party. TRUE. Now you are going to pull the party down for your own selfish interest. I had not thought that half the comments are from Greens and Labor supporters giving you confidence. Don't believe all that is written here. Have you ever spent much time anywhere in Australia but in your own area? Enough from me now. With your reaction in denigrating Tony Abbott shows your true colours. I never heard Tony Abbott or any of the others trying to pull you down. Only the day of the spill was the first we heard. You are just being like the little boy who could not get his own way now. A big shame.
Gordy
# Gordy
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:40 PM
Well Mr 14% Turnbull, the problem is you were unable to convince your own party you were right about the ETS so you were never a show of convincing Mr & Mrs Joe Public that your ETS was any different to the Rudd ETS thus you were never going to be in Government.

I would like to think that you really believed in the AGW religion but my cynical parts remind me that you were a Merchant Banker and there is only one religion that they believe in....M O N E Y !!

Who offered that saying: " Never stand between....................... and a bucket of money"
robert kernohan
# robert kernohan
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:40 PM
Finally the ALP plant has unmasked himself, HO HUM.
Lex
# Lex
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:42 PM
Malcolm,
Your comments are a ray of light in this morning's news. Your stance on climate change is commendable, and you have shown far more backbone on the ETS than your feeble-minded, ego-driven colleagues. We do need your voice of sanity, regardless of the repercussions for the Liberal Party. Continue to stand your ground on this one, and your support from other ranks will grow. Most climate change sceptics have a vested interest in avoiding the issue, and history will not thank them for doing nothing.
Monica
# Monica
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:43 PM
I forgot - what good was that ETS going to do to cut emissions???
We with least money pay for the big polluters? If this is not correct why would not Penny Wong answer questions in the Senate last week.
There is more behind all this than you are all leading us to believe!!!
Sophie
# Sophie
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:43 PM
Malcolm

You are the ONLY Liberal that makes sense. The ONLY one. That should say something about the party you belong to. Time to give them the flick they deserve and either join another party or stand as an independent.

You are a breath of fresh air in that old crusty decrepid party which will lose the next election and lose TERRIBLY.

Keep speaking your mind, don't listen to the idiots on this blog...and STUFF party discipline. The intelligent and thinking Australians want a politician to speak their mind and follow their convictions, not be a puppet for any party. Party politics has ruined democracy.
Peter Kelly
# Peter Kelly
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:44 PM
para. 6: "... a favourite term of Mr Abbott ...". You wouldn't say "of me", you'd say "of mine". So that should be "of Mr Abbott's".
Sergio
# Sergio
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:45 PM
How many people on this blog supporting Malcolm Turnbull are Labor and Greens voters who would never vote Liberal?.

Malcolm you need to appeal to core Liberals and the swinging voters, you won't do that by adopting extreme Labor and Greens policies
chris
# chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:45 PM
I wouldn't say Malcolm is being a sore loser - he's just puting a bit of closure on the past few weeks - well spoken Mal!

No he'd be a sore loser if he quit politics to head up a legal firm specialising in class-action law suits for victims of climate change. That's going to be a huge money earner in the future with so many people putting up their hands as litigation targets.
James
# James
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:48 PM
Well done Malcolm and well said! Keep up the great work. Don't let them grind you down. The only way the Libs would win is if they get their heads out of the sand.
Leigh
# Leigh
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:49 PM
Alot of comments here complain about the impact of your comments on the Liberal party. Surely the real issues here are the need to honest and the need to be rational.

Thanks for this Malcom!
peter__
# peter__
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:49 PM
Tell it like it is...
David Ready
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:49 PM
Time you people watched Alex Jones', Fall of the Republic and tell me where any of it is wrong. It will put in to perspective why Malcolm Turnbull is more interested in making money out of the "Climate Change Industry", and what brought on this latest white-anting tirade.

He's not interested in the people of Australia, let alone the Liberal Party. And let's not loose focus on the fact that no Green or Independent voted for the ETS in the Senate last week. The ETS required only 7 to cross the floor. 2 Libs did. There are 5 Greens. That says it all about this particular ETS doesn't it?
Alan
# Alan
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:51 PM
Malcolm, Sour grapes, spoilt brat. What's your goal now? Trying to destroy the party you joined?

Or has this blog been hacked?
Ed
# Ed
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:51 PM
Great Blob Malcolm. The new Liberal team have made such a leap to the right on this issue there is now a middle ground political vacuum in Australia. Have you considered setting up a new party?!!!
Brenda Spence
# Brenda Spence
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:53 PM
Malcolm, I am appalled! I supported your leadership and didn't like Wilson Tuckey's continual commenting but you have proved him RIGHT by this latest rant.

You obviously have no loyalty to the Liberal Party. How many of the comments on this blog are from Labor supporters ?- that should tell you something.

RUDD is who you should be taking the fight to - show some grace in defeat - you have no credibility anymore.

I am very disappointed.
Another supporter lost
# Another supporter lost
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:55 PM
Malcolm, I am appalled! I supported your leadership and didn't like Wilson Tuckey's continual commenting but you have proved him RIGHT by this latest rant.

You obviously have no loyalty to the Liberal Party. How many of the comments on this blog are from Labor supporters ?- that should tell you something.

RUDD is who you should be taking the fight to - show some grace in defeat - you have no credibility anymore.

I am very disappointed.
Nonni
# Nonni
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:55 PM
@Monica

Malcom speaks for the majority of Australians (news poll)
Country people have that jerk Barnyard Joyce. Bunch of bible bashing red necks.

Pete
# Pete
Monday, December 07, 2009 1:59 PM
Ah, the irony of people criticising you for being liberal and not being a team player...

Yes, that's Mr Menzies I hear. At this rate, his spinning will create a world's first perpetual motion machine and the Liberal Party WILL have truly solved The Great AGW Debate.
Anonymous
# Anonymous
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:00 PM
Well done Malcolm. You are indeed a man of substance on this issue.
Alan Johnston
# Alan Johnston
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:02 PM
Malcolm, your behaviour is a disgrace and keeps getting worse. You were reported as saying the other day that you wouldn't cause problems for the backbench but that's all you seem to be able to do.

If this policy position is so abhorrent, you should resign from the Liberal Party and go independent rather than inflict further problems on the party that took you on.

Can you imagine the next Labor election campaign ads??

This is not how the game is played. Move on ... then you can say whatever you like. If you don't have the decency to do so, serious consideration to disendorsing you. You are simply too used to getting your own way, are bitter and will not let this go.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:03 PM
bring back Costello then we will all laugh the abbott and Costello roadshow well done Malcolm for having the gutts and integrity in wanting to honor the agreement with Government
Alan Johnston
# Alan Johnston
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:03 PM
Malcolm, your behaviour is a disgrace and keeps getting worse. You were reported as saying the other day that you wouldn't cause problems for the backbench but that's all you seem to be able to do.

If this policy position is so abhorrent, you should resign from the Liberal Party and go independent rather than inflict further problems on the party that took you on.

Can you imagine the next Labor election campaign ads??

This is not how the game is played. Move on ... then you can say whatever you like. If you don't have the decency to do so, serious consideration to disendorsing you. You are simply too used to getting your own way, are bitter and will not let this go.
Guy
# Guy
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:03 PM
Well said !
Bumble Bee
# Bumble Bee
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:04 PM
I am not a liberal voter but I must say Mr Turnbull you are one of the few credible politicians in our parliament today. You stand by your convictions and are prepared to make self sacrifices to defend these. You must be commended for this.
Penelope
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:06 PM
Well said Malcolm. I'm delighted that you've chosen to speak up and show that att least one member of the coalition has an understanding of the science of global warming and the threat it presents to future generations. Do not be afraid to carry on your good work!
Shirley
# Shirley
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:12 PM
How sad that a few months ago, I thought that you were the personification of a great Statesman. When the media started describing you as Rudd-like I was appalled. How sad that once losing the leadership, you have let your bitterness and ego, turn your actions into that of a spiteful, nasty, little schoolboy, who doesn't know how to lose gracefully. Sad indictment of what you are portraying for your own children, Malcolm - you should be ashamed. As for your latest threat to cross the floor in February, then perhaps when crossing you should stay there,as that is where you seem to be aligned with your comments, and behaviour. Or better still do the Liberal Party and the Australian people a favour - resign. Who knows friend Kev may even have a good job offer for you anyway. That is better than pretending that you have the interest of the party at heart, while you do everything in your power to spew forth criticism and try to undermine the man who replaced you. The Australian people WANT to know more about the ETS before any decisions are made. If you spent a little more time reading the polls, and listening to the people, rather than making vitriolic comments, and almost unblanced rants, you would probably get over your obviously huge disappointment, and act like a man, who cares about the future of this country.
Valda
# Valda
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:14 PM
Goodness Malcolm Turnbull you had 41 Liberal m.p's who voted for you to retain your leadership of their Party, and now you intend attacking the other 42 m.p's who didn't vote for you. That is stupidity, and shows no tact or respect for opinions different from your own. You had the opportunity of convincing your colleagues that Labor's policy is the right one after McFarlane amended it, and you lost. The least you can do now is resign from the Liberal Party you so violently disagree with. Abbott is prepared to debate Rudd which is something you should have done. We are told that 80% of the public do not understand what this ETS Policy is all about, and you never enlightened them. Let Abbott do it for you, and be a good little Liberal boy and shut up OR spit your dummy proper, and get out of the way.
Good on you Malcolm!
# Good on you Malcolm!
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:15 PM
Monica and others- your vitriol is really misguided. The same newspoll referenced above shows that nearly three quarters of Aussies support the CPRS, and that two thirds want the Coaltion to negotiate changes: http://www.newspoll.com.au/image_uploads/090906%20Carbon%20Pollution%20Reduction%20Scheme.pdf

Malcolm's position IS in touch with popular opinion!

If the Liberal Party wants to win support, it should be reaching out to the public, not pandering to a base of sceptics.
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:15 PM
Go Malcolm Go!!
Dont take a backward step.
Ex-Turnbull Supporter
# Ex-Turnbull Supporter
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:17 PM
Malcolm, if you are going to antagonise your supporters with this nonsense, we will vote you out at the next election, even at the cost of handing the seat to Labor.
Wadard
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:17 PM
Good on you Malcolm, make that do-nothing denier's life utter and absolute hell from now, so that he can't bequeath our kids and grandkids their own special hell on earth.

Tony Abbott may not quite be God - but on the ETS and Climate Change he sure acts as if he is omniscient.

Go, you good man, go!
Ostin Milbarge
# Ostin Milbarge
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:18 PM
I was not a self confessed fan of your Mr Tunball, but this has gone a long way in redeeming yourself in my eyes. It is unfortunate that someone as level-headed as yourself is no longer the Opposition leader, passed over by a bunch of climate change sceptics and general lunatics like Minchin.

Way to stick it to them.

O
chester
# chester
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:18 PM
You would ruin Australia for 40 pieces of silver. You will be exposed, many see it already.
Grant
# Grant
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:19 PM
The mad monk and minchin have done the Labor Party the biggest favour in bludgoning the party andtherefore themselves into the top libral positions this, together with their stance on the climate, I believe, will place the Labor Party in an even more prominate position at the next election sufficient to rule on their own. If some body doesn't shut up that idiot Joyce he will do even more halm.
Australia desperatly needs a good oposition. You were slowly getting there, unfortunatly, the change in leadership was not a step up but severly backwards. For gods sake liberals get yor act together and ask questions the enquire not just for the sake of hearing your own voices.
Paul Gilding
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:20 PM
More evidence that you actually "get" this issue with the depth it deserves. It's time thinking people everywhere started, as you are, calling it like it is. The science is in, lack of action is both immoral and economically dangerous. Keep at it.
Matt
# Matt
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:22 PM
Well said Sir - finally someone from the Liberal party talking honestly and sensibly about this issue.
Mikey M
# Mikey M
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:24 PM
You are a petulant childish fool.

As a local resident and Liberal supporter I am amazed and utterly disgusted by your foot stamping, vicious and entirely unnecessary attacks on the Party that entrusted you with its leadership.

This behaviour simply proves that those that doubted you had the mettle to be a good Prime Minister and a good leader were probably correct.

So go ahead and cross the floor and vote with Labor. But stay there and don't come back. Local Liberal supporters have had enough of your 'bulls hit'. You are truly beneath contempt.
CARMEN
# CARMEN
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:25 PM
I can't believe what I have just read - Malcolm, you are a disgrace, an unprincipled jealous man who obviously can't take it on the chin and bow out in a gentlemanly fashion. SHAME ON YOU , you are now in the same league as Kevin Rudd. You have just gained another EX SUPPORTER.
Lefty Banana
# Lefty Banana
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:26 PM
Malcolm,
Stand up,
Tell us your vision
Show us a future we can believe in
Take reasonable Liberals, and we disenchanted by the lost potential of Kevin "Winston" Rudd
Lead us to the promised land
- Lefty Banana
Chris
# Chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:31 PM
Looks like you've sent Abbott scurrying back under his rock with this one.

Please don't give up on your vision for the Liberal Party.
john
# john
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:31 PM
Malcolm, I don't remember Brendan Nelson sinking to the depths you have lately, when you defeated him.
I have been voting Liberal for over 40 years in Wentworth but will NEVER again while you remain the member.
Now but out, join your labor party and your mate krudd will probably make you the Minister for Goldman Sachs.
That is what it is all about isn't it. You stuffed up and let your mates banking mates down.
Abbott is 100 times the person you will ever be.
You a greedy spoilt brat, behaving like a two year old.
Grow up!!
Rebecca Wilson sumed you up perfectly.
Dale
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
Hey where was this attitude when you were leader damn it. THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY POLITICS FROM NOW ON! In your face, gritty, thruthful and with BALLS.

With that out of the way, what you have said right, the Liberals are heading for an election asking us the public to vote in their favour with no clear plan, policy or idea about climate change other than to stick ones head in the sand, pray and hope like all hell in favour of the evidance of crack pots and lunatics they they get it right. It might be time to abondon the Liberal party to the wing nuts and actually found a party based on policy that makes sense and is based on fact rather than spin
RexAlan
# RexAlan
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
Malcolm I live in Wentworth, and because of what's happened you no longer have my vote.

The Rudd governments ETS is a dogs breakfast of a policy. Even if man made global warming were happening, which of course it's not, this stupid scheme would do absolutely nothing. What it will do though is cost the taxpayers of this country billions of dollars, jobs will go offshore and industries will close.

Tony Abbott is about uniting the party and becoming a valid opposition.

A trial without a defence is a "sham", business without competition is a "monopoly", science without debate is "propaganda", and government without an opposition is a "disaster".
Ex Teacher
# Ex Teacher
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
Malcolm Turnbull, in years to come, will you be able to hold your head up high when you look back at the way you dealt with your dethroning?

I was a supporter of yours but gave up in dismay when you failed to oppose the ETS. Your intransience spoke of an arrogance and inability to listen. You, the formerly omnipotent Malcolm Turnbull, decided that you knew better than your grass roots support.

Your behaviour since your ignoble downfall has been reminiscent of a child's tantrum. I thought you were better than that MT. Where is that man I once respected?

The sad news is that the majority of your supporters are Labor or Green voters. Malcolm you only achieved a paltry 14% preferred Prime Minister. Does that not illustrate that you are on a crusade without an army? Unfortunately MT, you are garnering more support from Labor voters. Your Coalition support was haemorrhaging, a sure sign that Coalition voters DO NOT want to rush into an ETS!

In the spirit of some straight talking, Malcolm you are shredding your credibility. Your pathetic petulance is evidence of a sore loser. Tony Abbott seeks to liberate the party from your pestilent ETS. We the Coalition voters largely agree with your leader's POV! Live and let live!
Owen
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
Good, obvious points. It's pretty clear an ETS is required. Even if there needs to be massive payouts to get it off the ground to start, those can be tapered over time to make it work.
geoff
# geoff
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
There's some rational posts here but the ones that make me wonder should I laugh or cry are of those that want to either (a) keep the liberal party together at all costs & that accept that it's OK that even though the conservatives who are still the minority of the parliamentary party were able to push through their objectives because the small l liberal members generally lacked balls or (b) keep wanting the sceptics & the flat earth society to be on rise.

I've never voted coalition but might one day vote liberal if the neocons split off with their 'me & now, bugger my grandchildren' National mates (as if they really represent the land & those on it!) went off & formed their own right wing party & left the libs that the majority surely favour to run their party. It's alright for Minchin, Abbott & Tuckey to fire bullets that were clearly against the party line at the time but if Turnbull does what the majority of the party really believe but most of them too gutless to say it that's a no no! Are you really that blinded or intimidated by them?

Whether you like it or not the Government won the last election with a large majority. A clear part of their platform was for an ETS. The majority of the people voted for that. Deal with it! If you have read some of the thousands of articles over the last 25 years by eminent scientists, biologists & many other academics who actually give a stuff about the only planet we have to live on & then you go & look at the Murray-Darling system, talk to locals that saw the system 40 years ago you'd realise something is happening with our climate. The thing is do you care about what we leave for our children & their children. Are you convinced by the recent wave of paid for by those interested (read mining companies, oil producers, etc) deniers of the mountains of the peer reviewed information available. No one is entirely sure but many things are pointing at man made climate change. To put it simply yes the climate is always changing but we are making it happen faster than living organisms can adapt to the climactic changes. We are part of that biosphere & cannot survive with being part of it. This directly affects our own future as a species. As Senator Xenophon put's it even if we're not convinced surely a good idea is a thorough risk management practice be put in place by legislating the ETS. Actually investigate for youself what the likes of China are doing to wean themselves of dirty energy. You'll be very surprised! Turnbull is being pragmatic that's all. You'd be crazy not to be unless of course all you care about is yourself in the years you have left to yourself.
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:32 PM
Your ranting is indicative of how poor a consensus builder you were. People in the electorate now know just what sort of a bully boy you really are. These divisive and childish tirades are the necessary justification to ensure that you dont keep preselection for the next election.

My cousins handed out voting papers for you last time. They wont be next time and the word is now going out
Fezzex
# Fezzex
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:34 PM
Gee, a lot of people don't like having the truth pointed out to them.

The liberal party really needs a leader that can tell it like it is and not pander to right wing thinking. It's an absolute pity that weren't able to pull it off Macolm.

Those that knock Malcolm for his blunt approach here, it is better that this frankness happens now, so that a real and credible policy on Climate Change can be thrashed out and then communicated to the public well before the next election.
Simon
# Simon
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:35 PM
Malcom Turnbull only has "freak-show" value now. Why don't you go and prop up the corner of a bar somewhere?
bob thomas
# bob thomas
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:35 PM
Well done Malcolm. You have remained true to your convictions and to your committment to progressive reform for Australia. Although I am Labor, and would never have voted for you, I none the less respect your integrity on the climate change issue.

Global warming is a major issue here in WA. One of our major industries that supports hundreds of small communities is broad acre farming. Our farmers are the best in the world but unfortunately are becoming more marginal every year due, in part, to global warming. Seasons are less predictable and more unreliable than ever before in living memory. The long term trend is even more disheartening if no action is taken to reduce carbon pollution in the atmosphere.

An ETS in Australia (or some equivalent type of carbon capping) is just a small part of the solution. Our politicians must also become more proactive in developing solutions on a world wide basis because that is where 98% of the carbon is emmitted. Failure to do so will sentence thousands of Australian agricultural businesses and communities to oblivion.

People like you can make a difference. You can help raise awareness of this issue and support similar minded coalition MPs. One local Western Australian National MP, Philip Gardiner, has shown in his maiden speech that he fully understands this issue. More power to the both of you.





Jack
# Jack
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:35 PM
With respect, Mr Turnbull; doesn't this all seem familiar from the republic debate? If the most conservative can split their opponents by getting them to argue models long enough, nothing changes. Tax? Cap and Trade? Mandatory schemes? Delay, obfuscate, exhaust.
By the way; in response to the ubiquitous "1.4% of world emissions" argument which gets another airing in the comments above: My tax bill is a microscopic fraction of Government revenue - much less than 1.4%. Not paying it would have no impact Australia-wide, but would improve my global competitiveness significantly. Would you mind asking Barnaby Joyce if it's OK if I didn't pay anything this year?
Philip
# Philip
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:35 PM
I used to a big fan of the successful, confident and energetic Malcolm Turnbull. Who on earth is this bitter, vengeful megalomaniac with the same name. It appears that you joined the Liberal party not to assist it or to work with it, but to use it as a vehicle to fulfil your own ambitions. Now that the party doesn’t want you any more, you would destroy it rather than see it successful without you. Until few days ago, I was hoping for the return of Malcolm Turnbull as a Liberal leader, in not to distant future. However, it appears that now you have been showing your true character. No one wants any association with this new Malcolm Turnbull any more. You have been digging yourself deeper and deeper into the bull....
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:38 PM
Mate, you need to cool down & have a think about what you are writing. A clever bloke like yourself should know that you have a good read of what you have written before you publish it...or did you accidently press send...oops...
This is a very undignified dummy spit, the likes of which I have never seen before; don't be fooled by those on here who are saying keep it up; my gut feeling is that the average aussie is highly sceptical of the indecent haste to get this ETS passed; whatever happened to rational informed debate and a bit of commonsense.
I am sure Abbott, Minchin & co are just as keen to see good old planet earth survive as you profess to be; I certainly am but I think there are so many things we can do as a nation before you just tax the crap out of us all!! Us average aussies aren't as dumb as you & your bestie (Krudd) think and we really don't like bullyboy behaviour. And Al Gore....really...he is so slimy don't you think? Show us some good science, show us some respect, listen to the people...they are screaming out for answers but not many are listening to us!
I have raised a few boys, I know they can chuck the best tanties at times but usually they grow out of them by the age of 3...not sure what happened to you mate, you probably should have some quiet time & think about what you have done!
Cheers :)
Charles
# Charles
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:39 PM
Given that perhaps the easy option for you might have been towalk away from politics and make money in private enterprise in response to the ETS, the fact that you have chosen to remain and be a voice for what you believe is commendable.

To those who urge you to bow out, I say your right is to voice your opinion as is Malcolm's to be the voice in the party for those who care.
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:39 PM
Malcolm, I backed you for a long time but still no proof of man made climate change, and still no explanation of what Rudds ETS would cost us as taxpayers. Not ''about'' figures, definate factual figures. You have had your chance to questionRudds ETS you just agreed with him, but no proof. Now step aside, we need an opposition. Go, be an independant, or join the Labor party. We don't need a yes man.
Rob
Jason
# Jason
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:40 PM
The party has spoken. You were not chosen. Do the right thing and get behind Abbott.

And stop pushing your climate change agenda on us. We're not buying it.
Wentworth Resident
# Wentworth Resident
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:42 PM
You have accosted me twice in the last two elections Malcolm...

Once in the Oxford St Mall in Bondi Junction in 2004 after a sweaty walk around Centennial Park and then again in the Bondi Junction Interchange while on my way to drop my son at daycare in 2007.

Both times I declined the offer of a chat and made a hasty exit. I had made up my mind long before the election which political party I would be voting for.

If you stand again in 2010, then I will happily stop for a chat!!!

You have shown yourself to be a man of principle willing to stand up for what you believe in at great personal expense.
Craig Eyles
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:43 PM
Let me see, you'd rather an ETS instead of a carbon tax?? There isn't any difference. It's still a greedy tax grab.
And, it's not Liberal Party policy & it never will be unless you get back in charge (God forbid) & hijack another meeting.
This is why you lost the leadership. You don't listen to your party room, you don't listen to the people & you might as well join the ALP.

Put plain & simply, the ETS is a 30% GST with Work Choices thrown into the mix. You can't expect the power & gas companies to just sit there & let us make inprovements in our homes to save on our power bills without a penalty. This ETS is our penalty.

A penalty for those who believe in global warming. If this theory in global warming isn't ridiculous enough & totally unproven since weather records existed, but man made global warming is even more laughable.

Have a look at our esteemed PM. He uses more carbon than over 20 surburban homes. So, we'll have to foot the bill for that too?? You've got to be joking me.

And for what?? To theoretically save Australia from 15 days of global warming??

This policy has absolutely no common sense, no scientific substance, no financial justifications & only stands to make the family budgets break.

It's not alot of good writing & abusing Abbott without telling the people the truth about the ETS & who really profits from it from a business & family budget stand point. I've yet to see any documents on this at all & all I can read into it is a grab for the companies producing the energy & a loss from the family budget stand point.

So, please, prove me wrong.
Wendy  Robson
# Wendy Robson
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:44 PM
Way to go, Malcolm!! You have got some backbone! Stick it to 'em. I think I could be persuaded to vote Liberal if you were standing in my area.
My old dad says, "Everything in life has its price." Same for climate change. Do we pay now, or do we pay ten fold down the line a few years. WHat a legacy for future generations. Minchin and Abbot will be all but dead and the world will be in a most catastrophic state, but as long as we don't have a "great big tax"!
Chris
# Chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:45 PM
Good lord Malcolm atleast go out with some dignity, dont go out a Hewson or Latham nobody respects that. You are not helping your party, you are helping Rudd.
Pat
# Pat
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:45 PM
I'm a swinging voter who appreciated seeing the Liberals being led by someone with the ability to take it up to the Rudd Government. Now what choice do swinging voters have? It seems to me that you were never really given the time and scope to develop and fulfill your potential as leader of the Opposition. Disloyalty may have been lurking behind the scenes for a long time but we are all aware there was the known uncertainty stemming from the Costello factor. The process which resulted in your loosing the leadership was nothing short of bizarre! So far as the new leadership is concerned, you are right! Regardless of what he thinks and really stands for on a wide range of issues, Tony Abbott does keep changing his position at incredibly short notice based on what he actually says. I do not share the view that you ought to have remained silent on matters of principle that concerned and probably hurt you so much when these are also matters of public trust. Hiding dirty washing from the public does not result in it ceasing to exist. .
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:46 PM
I dont know why the ALP supporters here are so in favour of this wretched ETS- They will be the losers in all of this, the volvo drivers and bankers will be the winners. There has never been a proper public debate on climate change in this country. We need the hard facts and we need to see which way the rest of the world is going to go. We need and may finally get a few hard heads in the liberals for a change, thank heavens. We dont need any more doomsday prophets, mad greenies, whining hand wringers or other idealogues who have latched on to the idea of man made climate change- they are people who would never accept any contrary science because it doesnt suit their political agenda. If you want to cut climate emissions you need to cut global population growth first. someone needs to tell this to Kevin Rudd maybe Malcolm you could give him a call on his private number.
Geoff Brown
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:47 PM
So, Malcolm, you don't mention the falsifying of the evidence by the IPCC which began years ago with the false hockey stick.

Also you don't seem to ever want to mention that Goldman Sachs and the company they formed with Al Gore (He of the discredited Inconvenient Lies movie) Generation Investment Management are making Megabucks from trading in Carbon (Dioxide) credits.
Observer
# Observer
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:47 PM
I suggest to Mr. Turnbull that, when he crosses the floor to vote with the Rudd Government on this ETS issue, then he actually stays there, and sees out the rest of his term to the RHS of the Speaker. His term concludes whenever the next election is held - that should give the NSW Division of the Liberal Party ample time to call for candidates to contest a pre-selection for the seat of Wentworth. Of course, in Mr. Turnbulls case, I strongly urge him to seek preselection by the ALP for the seat of Wentworth. That would make a very interesting tussle! Seriously, it is high time for Mr. Turnbull to move on - and if he won't go voluntarily, then the Liberal Party ought to dump him from the Party on the grounds of either or both of disloyalty, or bringing the Party into gross disrepute. He would make a very good companion for that OTHER Malcolm of past history within the Liberal Party - Malcolm Fraser. Both of them absolutely bloody hopeless!
Cheers,
Observer
Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM
I for one am somewhat of a global warming skeptic, however my biggest concern with Rudd's ETS, was the fact that nothing had been explained fully. Siding up with KRudd, and getting some amendments through just to pass the policy, without letting the public fully know how they were going to be affected by this ETS is very poor form.

I for one am glad that this will fail to get through as I have not the slightest clue how this will affect me. My understanding is that I would be paying more for goods and services, and the money that I pay, will go to the carbon producing industries and generators. Sounds like price gouging to me, the only people to actually benefit would be polluters.

If you really are a team player, you would have consulted the Liberal Party room before publishing this attack on Tony Abbott. By publishing this attack, you are showing that you are not a true Liberal Party member. Why are you engaging in friendly fire with your own team mates? Is it harder to discuss this with Tony Abbott face to face, than to publish a new blog posting.

I want to see an enquiry as to the outcomes of this scheme, and I would like to see what the world as a whole would put forward at Copenhagen, than leap out on a limb, with legislation showing we are the first to commit, yet then find that we have committed in the wrong direction?

Poor form Malcolm, poor form ...
rob
# rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:50 PM
finally the ALP plant has unmasked himself, Ho hum.4q
Pat Connellan
# Pat Connellan
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:52 PM
I see all the Liberal Party's paid stooges have been busy on this forum - so many of the messages blasting Mr Turnbull have similar talking points and written in the same style with fake anecdotes. Keep on spinning boys. You will be annihlated in the next election and wake up to discover what you really are - a diminishing extreme right-wing rump of a party populated by climate change denialists, xenophobes, monarchists, religious fundamentalists and nasty, fearful ignorant old people.
John Davidson
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:52 PM
You are quite right Malcolm. Many of the actions required to reduce emissions will involve costs that have to paid for by someone. However, there are some things that don't cost unless you insist on "putting a price on carbon. For example, the average fuel consumption of Australian cars is approx. 11 litres/100 km even though there are plenty of low cost cars on the market that consume less than 5 litres/100 km. Leaving the cost of fuel unchanged and using regulation to keep the average fuel consumption below 5 litres/100 km is not going to cost car buyers and users. (See here for more details)
On the other hand, cleaning up electricity is always going cost serious money. However, this doesn't mean that the use of ETS or carbon taxers is the smartest way of driving this change. To my mind it would be better if the strategies for cleaning up electricity included setting up a series of contracts for the supply of clean electricity. If it is done properly it will satisfy most of the needs of the government, potential investors, consumers and the owners and workers in the existing power generation industry. (See
Graeme from Melbourne
# Graeme from Melbourne
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:53 PM
Malcolm, you would best serve Australian politics by joining your spiritual home in the Australian labour party.

Please look up Climategate on Google and educate yourself to the huge and growing hole at the foundation of the "Man Made Global Warming" myth.

Note that the trend lines for belief in man made global warming are falling.

Note the science is "not settled", and Natural Variation of Climate has not been disproven, and attacking labour from the left was always a bad strategy.
Wazza
# Wazza
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:54 PM
Malcolm you are much smarter than me, but that doesn't mean that you are always right or that you can tell me what to think.

I personally think there was no need to legislate before Copenhagen, a view I thought I recalled you holding earlier.

There are those in the party who say you stacked the original party room vote. You haven't answered that, therefore your argument that the Liberals renegged on their deal is open to debate.

Is the truth here that, while you are not afraid of fighting your own party, Rudd held the double-dissolution trigger up and you blinked?

You have a lot to give....I just hope you learn what you must learn before you can make your contribution.
Fezzex
# Fezzex
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:56 PM
Having reread the blog, and some of the commentary below it, I must be missing something.

Where is the "dummy spit" some are going on about here?

Is it because he used words like "crap" amd "bullshit", merely referencing these comments from other Liberals (including the current leader)?

Is it because he is arguing against the official line of the Liberal Party (which in itself is a reversal of its position a week or so ago)?

Many comments here are based on the assumption that the rest of the Liberal Party is a) in denial about climate change and b) acted unanimously to depose Malcom.

The fact is a) some feel very strongly doing something about climate change (witness the senators crossing the floor last week) and b) Tony Abbott only just scraped in, by one vote.

If you have issues with the science of Climate Changes, maybe start blogging with Andrew Bolt. He needs you.

If you have issues with Malcolm speaking out against the Liberal Party, suck it up. This wont go away, and nor should it.
Carol
# Carol
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:56 PM
I bet those traditional Aboriginal Elders who are still deeply connected to the ancient knowledge of this great land are sitting back shaking their heads at this demonstration of the flawed western way of doing business .

The Elders might well be wondering why they were never consulted way back when the environmental pillaging began. It was a pretty clean, harmonious landscape the day we greed and ownership driven colonisers arrived and began dismantling systems that were in place for thousands of years.
Here are just a few things that can be found across all language groups in traditional Aboriginal Culture:

*Respect for the environment and working in harmony with the Laws of nature
*Training in the importance of the "We" over 'me me me"
*Ceremonial processes where differences can be brought to the circle & conflict resolved in a manner that is in the best interest of the collective
*Rites of passage so that grown men do not carry on like adolescent boys
*Treading lightly on the landscape & recognising the role of seasons and cycles over instant outcomes & accelerated productivity.

Sounds like these combative adolescent-politicians could well do with some proper training.

How about Malcolm and Tony, who are STILL fighting in the mirror of their similar personality types, go bush for a few months for some boys business on and perhaps when they have outgrown this adolescent phase, learn the wisdom, grace, maturity and traditional Aboriginal knowledge that is lacking in this ego-driven debacle.

Global warming is happening and politicians emitting hot air and combative diatribe is contributing more than its fair share.
Stoz
# Stoz
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:56 PM
Good to see someone telling the truth for a change Malcolm.

I have never been a Liberal (and rarely Labor) voter, however you were dragging them down the right track.

About time to give these losers the flick and start your own party. Currently there are fewer choices to vote for than 10 years ago. Liberals have purged the moderate members and are controlled by the extreme right, while Kevin just keeps spinning.
Patricia
# Patricia
Monday, December 07, 2009 2:57 PM
Thanks, Malcolm, good to know you're hanging in there on this! Trust that the long hot summer, outcomes at Copenhagen, feedback from constituents and some solid soul searching will bring your parliamentary party supporters back to Canberra in the New Year seeing more sense than they showed in the Senate last week. Meantime they need to know you're still there and rock solid! Have a good rest over Christmas and come back refreshed, not that you've lost your edge so far!
Jacques
# Jacques
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:00 PM
Hello Malcolm

Although I understand most of the critics in response to your blog, I have great respect for the way you carry your convictions. It is true there can't be a cure without cost and the longer we wait the greater the pain will be for the people, paying for the mistakes current previous generations has put upon them.
Remember the early eighties when we went into the information technology age? The scare campaign of business, polititions and union about lose of jobs and the demisse of our economy where the order of the day and gues what, we survived and got even more jobs and better economie because of it.

The real losers are the ones that are narrow minded and can't see a solution even if it spit them in the eyes.... carry on Malcolm your doing great!
John Lovell
# John Lovell
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:00 PM
The Coalition’s current response to dealing with climate change seems rather contradictory, particularly for those who either deny global warming (some have said the globe is actually cooling) or that warming is the result of solar cycles and not due to human activity. From those who hold these points-of-view, to spend any money doing anything at all about climate change, would appear to be a waste of money since it would achieve nothing. But to those who say they don’t really believe in human-induced climate change really mean what they say? In relation to the recent leadership change, we might wonder how much of it was deliberately engineered by those behind the scenes. It appears the powerbrokers behind the Liberal Party have done their homework and decided that coming into an election year they needed to sharply distinguish themselves from the current Labor government on some major issue to have any chance of winning. Thus there was a need to dump the progressive leader Malcolm Turnbull and get back to a more hardcore conservative set of policies to win back traditional Liberal/National supporters who identify with very conservative values (don’t trust change) and the continuation of a constitutional monarchy. Opposing the ETS and appearing to deny climate change was really merely a smokescreen and a calculated gamble they were willing to take under the circumstances. People have short memories and a spill now before year-end would give time to re-define the party along old lines before getting too far into the election year. Certain well-known sympathetic radio commentators and others have played their part in helping achieving last week’s right-wing victory (spreading negative sentiments about dangerous left-wing global-warming conspiracies/cover-ups among scientists and even the suggestion Copenhagen may be a cover for the establishment of a World Government with its old associations with ‘Big Brother’, Anti-Christ, etc) for this shift of Liberal culture from the progressive to the traditional hard-core right-wing conservative. The pre-announced appointment of Barnaby to the front bench was very symbolic of where this revised cultural strategy is heading. Perhaps I will call this conspiracy theory ‘Abbott-Gate’.
ETS-is-a-scam
# ETS-is-a-scam
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:01 PM
Dear Mr Turnbull,

The ETS is a scam (just like global warming), or perhaps you missed the CRU leaked emails?

Mr Abbott wants to have a live debate with Mr Rudd per the ETS, as a Liberal supporter, I support Mr Abbott's position.
Past supporter
# Past supporter
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:01 PM
Malcolm you have lost me. You should forget that you were dumped and move on. Since Tony took over there is a peceived air of support, so are you trying to undo all of that? If you keep slapping your handbag around, the party will never return to government and any opportunity that is there for your return to the frontbench is gone. Act your age and don't copy Keat, wWhitlam and Hawke.
Tom
# Tom
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:02 PM
There is something sinister about Tony Abbott, and something even more sinister about Minchin, who are these people? Why do they feel they have the right to gamble with our future. Tony Abbott seems to have an opinion on everything but really stands for nothing. Its a real and terrifying nightmare that somebody like Tony Abbott can lead a major political party. I personally have had a enough of God and Politics getting mixed together in this country, and I have had enough of career politicians like Tony Abbott and Nick Minchin putting themselves and their ego's ahead of quality leadership. Abbott is going to get bashed at the next election..and then what
Malcolm Turnball was doing a fine job...don't stop having an opinion Malcolm, don't stop trying to invest a sense of reason in the stupid nightmare that is Australian Politics
Jess
# Jess
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:02 PM
Hi Malcolm

It's great that you care so much about the environment now. It's a shame you didn't display the same concern when you were The Minister for the Environment and Water Resources under Howard. The pulp mill you approved for the Tamar valley will cause significant environmental degradation in that region.
Tricia
# Tricia
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:02 PM
We need a national open debate from Kevin Rudd on the ETS. We don't need signs of Mark Latham qualities. You lost me on the utegate and your Australian Story. How can anyone anyone make a conscious vote when the ETS has not been explained properly.
Hayden
# Hayden
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:04 PM
Malcolm, if you can actually explain how the ETS is actually going to convert more carbon dioxide to oxygen, then maybe I would understand enough to vote for it. As I see it all the money charged under an ETS goes to renewable energy. renewable energy is not 100% efficient and many other arguments come to mind, but first and foremost they do not reduce actual carbon dioxide, they reduce carbon dioxide emissions at some sort of efficiency rating. So sell it to me, how I an ETS actually going to go and figure out how to make more oxygen and try to reverse the situation. If it is just going to make me pay more so more money can be shuffled across to wind farms, and solar farms, and geothermal, or nuclear, then what's the point.

Maybe I am a climate change sceptic, the fact we use climate change now and not global warming makes me sceptical enough. (But I also hate the fact we don't say black boards now and they have to be chalk boards too. Whiteboards are still white. ) Anyway, I will cop the tax on the chin if someone can tell me when the funds are going back into trees, as at this point, they are the only thing that generates oxygen efficiently. The ETS odes not stop us cutting down trees. Maybe we should all build giant greenhouses and charge the government for how much oxygen we generate from the trees. At least then the income is taxable and the government would be interested in it. Trees don't make money, and that in essence seems to be the problem. No money = no tax = no interest by govt.
Laurie Seguna
# Laurie Seguna
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:04 PM
Malcolm, I have emailed you in the past supporting you. But not any more.

Despite arguing on your behalf in the past, many mates of mine, both Liberal & Labor supporters, could never cop you. Some indicated they were familiar with some of your business interests (I wasn't) and some said they'd met up with you or heard some pretty negative things about you and that was about it.

After what has happened since you lost the leadership, I guess I can now see why MOST of these guys felt the way they did. Because I now feel the same.

Don't be fooled or get too comfortable with many of your responses in this blog, because after the way you have RE-ACTED since losing the leadership most Liberal supporters are disgusted and devastated at your attacks at what I thought was the party you represented and supported. Represented yes, supported?????. Well you probably can't even see the damage you are doing to the Liberals.

Surely you MUST know that it's not only Mr Rudd and his band of men, that the party you are supposed to represent have to overcome, but also most of the biased TV political media. The media that never have and never will hand the Lib's any favours. What you have done now is give Mr Rudd & those tv political supporters more ammunition to attack Mr Abbott and the party. Shame on you.

You sound like Mr Rudd and his men accusing Mr Abbott of not believing in climate change, and that he now represents a party of doing nothing. Malcolm, what Mr Abbott doesn't necessarily believe in is Mr Rudds ETS sceme. Period.
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:05 PM
Well said Malcolm! It's so disappointing to see the Liberals return to the sneaky politics of John Howard when this is such an important issue.
Jack See
# Jack See
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:05 PM
Malcolm, You seem to be a pretty spiteful whinger.

Disgusted in your attitude, whos side are you on.

Youve lost any respect I had for you.

Now put your head in the corner.

Jack
Sam
# Sam
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:06 PM
I can't believe see this 120 something billion dollars as cost!!
I see it as an investment in our future.
This scheme won't be simply giving the polluters money, it will be providing incentive to invest in ways of producing energy that is both clean and sustainable. Think of the opportunities that will become available as a result of this, not of the what you will be losing. I think that even if it is proven that human activity is NOT causing global warming, even then we should still be working towards a future where energy is produced from renewable sources regardless. What is happening within the Liberal party is a disgrace.
Jim
# Jim
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:07 PM
Malcolm, no secret that you are bitterly disappointed. Quite a few Australians know your grasp of practical financial and economic matters is better than Kevin Rudd's. That gave you a good chance, like Lazarus and John Howard to rise again. Your illogical rant above has severely damaged any chance of that happening. The public are bundling you with Latham, as a bitter and psychotic man on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Read some of these blogs and you will recognise that the only praise you are receiving is coming from dedicated ALP voters who are delighted with your attack on Abbot. Your body language and words suggest that you are heading for a nervous breakdown. Please, for your own sake, step back and take a well earned rest over the Christmas holidays with your family and friends. If you have any time to refelect on us, the Australian public, recognise that a referendum held today on whether Kevin's ETS should have been passed or not, would result in a resounding NO. The truth recognised by most thinking Australians is that Kevin's ETS is premature, not well thought through and in reality, uncosted in terms of jobs and living standards in Australia. Kevin is taking the largest delegation (over 90 people) to Copnehagen and wanted to tell the world how they must behave. A prelude perhaps to his ambition to be the first World President. Commonsense easily tells us that the nations have to thrash out a workable system for reducing emissions, and agree to it. For it to have any chance of working, an ETS must be part of a global agreement, and not just a a product of one man's ego. Malcolm, you know this is true. This is a good time to take a leaf from Costello and write a book. Relax and get well. Wishing you and your family a Happy Christmas.
lorraine
# lorraine
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:07 PM
malcolm,
I think you're in the wrong party. How bitter and twisted can you get.. With someone like you muttering in the background, who needs enemies.
Let the Liberal Party get on with it, just leave gracefully Malcolm.
Sertified
# Sertified
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:08 PM
Sorry Malcolm, I am Liberal through and through but you are not helping the conservative side of politics voting in favour of a BIG TAX for which there is no exit strategy if it all goes bad. There was no need to do this before Copenhagen and you know that. You only did this to avoid an election you knew you would not win. How bout you start keeping the debate inside the party room and then have the party stand with a united front. You unfortunately did not bring the party room with you on this one which was a mistake. Neither Liberal or Labor bothered to explain to Australians exactly what the ETS was about which is not good politics.
ed
# ed
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:08 PM
Malcolm you might be a backbencher, but a humble one? Not .....
This sounds all like sour grapes to me. your colleagues mentioned that you gave a very gracious speech after you were defeated. You certainly try to undo that big time now.
To reveal all the private comments and your distrust towards Julie Bishop show a bitterly disappointed man, and a very arrogant one i.m.o.
Malcolm, you used to say "I am the leader". Yes you were, but your downturn was the fact that you didn't practice the second part of leadership, and that is to be a 'servant' and listening colleagues & to the people who voted for you.
To put all these so called "home truths" in here is a sign of great immaturity.
Let's face it Malcolm: you put this "working" with the government on top of the agenda for only one reason: to get an agreement with them, so you could avoid an early election. As you knew quite well, thatyou would have been wiped out.
I'd say: get off that backbench a.s.a.p. please, so someone with more respect for others can take it.
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:10 PM
Resource scarcity alone means we need to do something significant to reduce energy consumption (& hence emissions). It is not necessary to believe in anthropogenic climate change or even in climate change at all - we're heading for a fall anyway. If the BER is any indication, the ETS will be expensive, inefficient, inflexible and economically distorting - but it will still be better than nothing. This govt has too much invested in the current ETS and they are not going away at the next election I suspect. So there will be an ETS. I have a fair bit of respect for MT's position in this debate although clearly he wasn't able to make it across the line ahead of his enemies. Time for a new party I think. Two dominant political forces clearly is not delivering the goods.
Mekon Delta
# Mekon Delta
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:10 PM
The jig's up, Malcolm.

By now it's transparently clear that your old merchant banking masters couldn't abide your standing in the way of the billions to be made by their Carbon trading activities. The ETS had to go through, irrespective of the disasters it would bring about for the country you had sworn to serve and (presumably) protect.

So the question of why your attitude to the question of Global warming changed so quickly .. and inexplicable must be asked:

How many pieces of silver traded hands?

Obviously enough to fund a 180-degree opinion change at enormous cost to your fellow countrymen. Or was it always part of the master plan to sell Australia out?

Kevin Rudd already has family members safely stashed away in well-paid places in China. Perhaps similar arrangements have been made for your kith and kin?

Might I suggest you consider the obvious course of action .. resign from the political party you have (despite your best efforts) failed to destroy .. and join your party of first choice?

Then you would be entitled to make all the snide, snivelling noises you like about the Liberal Party and the People of Australia whose future means everything to people with true values and strength of character.

These same people of Australia were prepared to stand behind you in your efforts to "do battle" with the Labor Socialist Government; you and you alone decided to change sides .. of all people, you should have known that all acts of such extraordinary treachery are eventually discovered .. and the perpetrators exposed and punished.

Accept your fate like a man.

You are diminished in the eyes of family, friends, party and country by your choice of action and words.

But Kevin Rudd and his party salute you!

Et tu, Brute?



Trevor
# Trevor
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:10 PM
Hi Malcolm.

As you are so fond of speaking bluntly why don't you pack up and P*SS OFF to the Labor Party you sad excuse for a conservative. I honestly believe you were always a labor plant, determined to destroy the great Liberal Party from within. Your behaivour over the past few weeks has only strengthened this opinion.
Instead of getting Swan during Utegate, you went the whole hog and claimed you were trying to get Krudd when in fact you knew all along that your action would only make sure you got nobody. You are a bitter and twisted republican and have nothing to offer our side of politics to please, pack up and leave or even better, don't cross the floor, move over to that side for good.
Wolfa
# Wolfa
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:12 PM
Well, I'm voting for the deniers; those who say 'it's crap', because I'm sure it's crap and it's about bloody time someone had the bottle to say it. Man-made-climate-change is a con, people and I only hope ONE of the parties says so.
ben keogh
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:12 PM
Malcolm, the politicking about climate change and the ETS has cost five people in my company their jobs. We specialize in creating forest sinks and have had to lay people off as we have no CPRS, no voluntary mechanism and no certainty about investment. We need a mechanism that will see trees planted. Trees not only soak up emissions from the atmosphere rather than stop new emissions going into the atmosphere but they mitigate against climate change and provide so many other environmental services, they are a no regrets policy and a win win policy. we have missed another planting season ads farmers wait to see if they will pay for emissions or make money from trees. All parties seem to agree trees are part of the solution but not do anything about it. Can we get both sides of parliament to get the the tree component working please.
Moz
# Moz
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:12 PM
Malcom...a terrific summary of the current situation facing the Liberal Party. For Tony Abbott to abandon a market mechanism to reduce carbon emissions is simply bizarre and more like a directive from Communist China's Central Committee. Any rational approach to this issue must compare the costs of generating power from coal, of various shades, gas, wind, solar or nuclear. And as you know the cost of the nuclear option, notwithstanding its diabolical health consequences, only beomes relevant a very long way down the track if there is a price placed on carbon either through an ETS or a carbon tax.
Oziebill
# Oziebill
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:12 PM
All those saying Turnbull is a sore loser conveniently forget two things. Firstly - the week before he beat a spill motion moved by that idiot Andrews stalking for Abbott. Who were the sore losers then?

Secondly, Abbott won last week by one vote when one of Turnbull's supporters was absent sick and another didn't have the guts to cast a valid vote.

So Abbott did not "win".
Alan Johnston
# Alan Johnston
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:14 PM
He's not just helping Rudd, he's doing Rudd's job for him - his latest effort is nothing short of a personal attack on his own party.

My question is what is Malcolm really hoping to achieve? His vote in the reps doesn't matter. His seat is marginal and he'll be lucky to get through this without being disendorsed and he's giving Abbott no chance to build a credible alternative to take it to Labor in the next election.

When you're in a political party you argue your position in the party room or in cabinet, you don't slam your new leader in the media.

I've lived in Wentworth for most of my life and the feedback I've received is that while people agree with action on climate change ... they cannot stand disloyalty and don't trust him any longer.

Abbott has already said that the Libs want this issue considered in further detail in committee ... not that nothing will be done. To me this seems logical ... why rush through a bill that will have a massive financial impact on the community when we have no idea what it is really about.

Malcolm should also think about how this will look in his future endeavours in the private sector.

As Chris has said, if you get out now, you can run the line that it was 'conviction'. Your current actions are branding you as an indiscrete traitor, lacking media savvy and in general a spoilt brat.

Please leave the party and let them get on with the job.

PS. I would be interested in Malcolm's justification for his actions as his latest explanation fell well short.

Geoff
# Geoff
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:16 PM
Good on you Malcolm.

So many of the respondents here are missing the big picture with their concentration on winning the next election and saving a thousand dollars in costs. These are absolutely insignificant compared with the responsibility we owe to our children, grand children and beyond to leave to them a livable planet.

Even Brendan Nelson in his farewell speech talked of the fact that Australia only emits 1.4% of the world's greehouse gases and anything that we did was therefore insignificant. That's like people living in a small court saying they don't need to obey water restrictions because their consumption is insignificant compared to that of people living on Princes Highway. Australia constitutes around 25 million people out of six billion in the world. That is around 0.4% of the population. That means that we are at present emitting more than three times our fair share. How can that not give us an obligation, no matter what other countries are doing?

Many say they vote against the ETS because they don't understand it. How can an issue as important as the preservation of the planet and the welfare of everyone on it not motivate these people to make the effort to access the explanations which are readily available on the web.

The principle has been around since before I studied economics in 1978. The idea of markets is to allocate resources in the most efficient manner. Industries that can reduce their carbon footprint are rewarded by the ability to sell their permits on the open market and the market dictates that they will be purchased by those who can make the most efficient use of them. The total volume of emissions can be controlled by the permits on issue.

The ETS may not be the ideal system, in which case we need to look at what is. The only serious contenders seem to be either the ETS or a carbon tax, which may be more efficient. With those who seek the short term benefit condemning the ETS as a tax, there seems little prospect of them advancing anything worthwhile.

Unfortunately those like Abbott, Minchin and their cronies put political point scoring and their own jobs ahead of the welfare of future generations. History will be scathing in its criticism of them and others who failed to act when crisis called.

Keep up the good work Malcolm. Our planet is much more important than winning the next election.
Billy Wilko
# Billy Wilko
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:20 PM
Well spoken Mr Turnbull - I look forward to your standing in the next election either as an Independent candidate for your present seat, or for the Senate as an Independent who believes in what he says - unlike some of the bullshit artists presently holding positions that make the entire opposition look like a one ring circus with revovling ring masters (no offence intended to you please)

My other dream is that you do what Don Chipp all those yrars ago - form an alternative party and "Keep the Bastards Honest Again" - stranger things have happened, mate. Stranger things have happened - thanks for being "fair dinkum" - Oh and I am a Labor voter who would swing behind you ike a shot
annabel lee-morgan
# annabel lee-morgan
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:22 PM
First time to post a comment on a blog site BUT from a skim read of the above comments bolsters my belief abour the nefarious intent of the Liberal dissidents and the extent to which they will manipulate public opinion (I'm sure you have never done that have you Malcolm? Surely no....). However along with their ability to conduct "secret ballots" where Julie Bishop was able to not only identify but retrieve her "secret ballot" paper, they have also demonstrated their ability to organise telephone trees, flooding blog sites like this with adverse comment and spouting ad naseum an opinion poll where supposedly 80% of AUSTRALIANS supported their position. Hellooooo!!!!! The poll they are so fervently quoting was a poll conducted in Queensland with a meagre 400 respondents. We don't know what the question asked was, if it was slanted in one direction or not. How valid is that. How dishonest is their conduct over the ETS. Governments govern for ALL Australians . Oppositions should respect ALL Australians and act in the National interest, not in the interest of their reading of the Liberal Party and their pursuit of individual power. The behaviour of the dissidents is not in the national interest, it is not in the interests of the Party and ultimately it is not in their own interests. What goes around comes around.
Tristan
# Tristan
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:22 PM
Great post Malcolm.

Abbott is just showing that he doesn't understand natural science, or economics.

Anyway, I think Abbott, MInchin and others will actually result in Australia having tougher legislation on climate change next year. The irony!

And those guys all need to read Scientific American's seven answers for climate skeptics. http://bit.ly/8B4E9t
Mike
# Mike
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:23 PM
Even if you are right sounding like a sore loser won't win you any friends. What the Libs need is a leader, not a dictator.
Kerry O'Brien
# Kerry O'Brien
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:23 PM
@Laurie Seguna

And surprisingly, according to researchers from the Australian National University, the ABC Television news is the most pro-coalition of them all.

Former Liberal prime minister John Howard railed against the alleged left-wing bias of the ABC, but the researchers found Aunty was more likely to favour his side.

Researchers pored over news stories from 1996 to 2007 to establish if the media was biased.

The results point to the media being generally middle-of-the-road, with the coalition tending to win out.

Researchers found journalists were "a centrist bunch". The exception was ABC TV news which "had a significant slant towards the coalition".

Way to go LS
Tim
# Tim
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:23 PM
I thought you said the libs would be blown apart for changing their stance on the ETS ? Not in Higgins and Bradfield. I think people are sick and tired of all the scare stories and tipping points that we just keep motoring through.
Anne
# Anne
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:24 PM
Malcolm, your outburst is astounding, and disgraceful. The people spoke, and the party spoke, and you still block your ears. Your style of leadership of bulldozing everyone to get behind your opinion was, and is, not acceptable to a conservative party. I actually thought you had the integrity to accept your defeat and serve your party, but sadly I was wrong.
It is now apparent you are determined to endeavour to try to tear the Liberal Party apart out of spite, but I believe you are only doing your reputation a great deal of damage. I find it amusing that all those commenters who support you seem to have to resort to calling us, the ones who don't believe the science is settled, don't believe in rushing the ETS to allow Rudd to carry his trophy to Copenhagen etc, names like "loonies", when in fact we probably have far more intelligence and common sense than they! We do not need to resort to the same name calling, but have respect for their views. That is called democracy.
I have, at last, absolute faith that Tony Abbott will lead the party in the direction conservative voters want, and that he will take the fight up to Rudd as it needs to be taken up.
I sincerely hope we do not see the letters "LP" behind your name on the ballot papers at the next election.
Tristan
# Tristan
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:26 PM
Oh and I forgot to add, go for that third party idea I've heard thrown about, if the Democrats hadn't signed their own fate years ago and had some strong principles in this area, the political landscape would be completely different today. The Greens will never be that strong of a political force in Australia, purely because of the connotations with hippies and 'greenies'.

We need an alternative to Labour and Liberal with some modern, progressive policies.
Anton
# Anton
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:27 PM
I'm sure I speak for many liberals when I say how disappointed I am that you have engaged in such a public attack on your party and your colleagues. You have done a lot of damage to the party. If you want to stay, you should support your party and it's leader. If you want to go, then go, but why can't you just go quietly?
c grasso
# c grasso
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:27 PM
good work mate

abbott is an unguided missile that will self destruct

cg
Hagen Dedekind
# Hagen Dedekind
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:27 PM
Malcolm,

Accept the fact that you handled the politics of the situation badly, you antagonised your own people when you were the leader and it did not work out for you. You haven't seemed to be able grasp the politics of the situation and plyed the man instead of the to issue too many times that was your downfall.

I for one thought you were a good candidate for the Liberal leadership after tha last election but it seems that the corporate leadership style which you possess is not suited to running a political party and you've been on the back foot ever since the Grech affair. Sticking to your word is commendable but unfortunately in politics you have to be able to shift your position when the politics of the situation demand it.

Most people did not undersatnd the ETS and its implications to their lifestyle and a lot of the general public are not inclined to vote for something they do not understand. The govenrment did a very bad job of selling the ETS to the public and only have themselves to blame.

Your comments above will not endear you to a lot of your colleagues regardless of their view on the ETS as you are acting as a destabilising force. You would have been better off passing comment once the new Liberal policy had been released. Your present comments and their timing do not support your party and you would be better advised to be lobbying colleagues with similar views on the ETS in private to effect change rather than continuing to air the laundry.

The one part of the ETS that I found objectionable was the 120% level of compensation to low and middle income earners. Everybody has to bear a price signal otherwise there is no change in energy usage behaviour. Also not passing on the cost of emissions from petroleum usage limits the ETS's effectiveness. This ETS lacked environmental credentials and thus it was able to be protrayed as a Rudd slushfund. This perception whether true or not has played out badly for the ETS.

The next year will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Luke
# Luke
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:28 PM
Malcolm, I notice your detractors have worse grammar than your supporters.

It is obvious to anyone who understands the issue that an ETS is neatest mechanism for effecting a reduction in CO2. To those who don't understand: just relax and the rest of us will take care of it all for you.

I look forward with morbid curiosity to Abbot's alternative.

Luke
Andy Semple
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:30 PM
Forget the Mad Monk, we now have MAD MALCOLM and his Lunatic Limousine Left Liberals. Save your dummy spit for the party room instead of giving Leader Rudd and Comrade Wong more ammo.

When you do cross the floor, keep on walking out the door.
Alan Johnston
# Alan Johnston
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:30 PM
Luke: perhaps you should learn how to spell Abbott :)
Steve Holling
# Steve Holling
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:31 PM
Anton,
Having voted Liberal for the last 12 Elections, you most certainly DO NOT speak for me.
Go Malcom, you have every right to voice your opinion in the broad church party.

Steve
Peter Wilson
# Peter Wilson
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:32 PM
Well said Mr Turnbull. Politics is seriosu business and at times, personal integrity must transcend grubby politics as played by Minchin and his mates.

The Liberal Party lost me as a supporter at the last election becuase they couldn't recognise it was time to roll Howard and start tackling climate change. Electing Abbott to lead them just confirms how much they now represent nothing more than greed and self interested consumerism. My children deserve a future of opportunity, not a burnt out shell of a planet, devoid of any resources. At least Malcom Turnbull believed they do to.
IanP
# IanP
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:33 PM
Labour's ETS is nothing short of a joke. And the biggest and baddest joke of all is that all of this would be pointless and leave our economy in tatters.
The effect of CO2 emissions on the climate is so small that all the billions of dollars that will be wasted as a result of any Copenhagen Treaty will make not an iota of difference. Just like Kyoto made no difference either.
The climate will do what the climate will do, and there ain’t nothing we can do about it.
You are not a scientist Malcolm - stick with what you do best and don't make an idiot of yourself.
Jacinta
# Jacinta
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:34 PM
Malcolm, you are a brave man. Keep fighting against ignorance and perfidy. The sooner Nick Minchin is out if the Liberal Party the better place Australia will be.
Anna
# Anna
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:37 PM
Howards legacy.....bwahahaha

Stay true to your convictions Mal
Kyno
# Kyno
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:37 PM
If the libs had been a bit more collegiate then maybe they would have a consensus policy. The fault for the current blank page really lies with the leadership of the time.

Please check my maths:

Total carbon output = (say) 1000 units
Australia's portion = 150 units (1.5% of total)
So our 5% reduction goal = 7.5 "saved" units.

Yes our 5% reduction (if achieved) would equate to a 0.75% overall decrease in world carbon!

Is it just me or is the whole premise to this debate insane?

Surely (given our size / skills) our best contribution is to help with advances in science that may go some way to assisting the real polluters.
Richard
# Richard
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:38 PM
I think we need action on climate change. I also supported Turnbull as leader. However, I don't agree with with the so called straight talk. Plays into the hands of the do-nothing Rudd government and weakens the coalition. You can do better Mr Turnbull.
Mary Blackmore
# Mary Blackmore
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:39 PM
Dear Mekon Delta. I think you are onto something. You might like to look up Bluesource LLC, for instance.
Sven
# Sven
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:40 PM
0.75% x many other countries = well done world
good point Kyno
carmen watt
# carmen watt
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:44 PM
You are a disgraceful Rudd puppet. Go away.
Mickey
ben
# ben
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:44 PM
I find the comments saying the Malcolm is somehow "betraying the party" and should fall into line with the leader's position absolutely astonishing. Abbott and his cronies have spent the last few months deliberately and publicly criticising Turnbull and constantly undermining the party position. I'm sure that some of the people criticising Turnbull for speaking out now adamantly defended Abott's right to disagree just a week ago.

Also, the fact that there are still people attacking the science brings me close to despair.

1. The overwhelming majority of major scientific bodies support the consensus on anthropogenic global warming.

2. The overwhelming majority of respected climatolgists support the consensus on anthropogenic global warming.

3. All peer reviewed papers ever written on the topic in the world support the consensus on anthropogenic global warming.

No amount of political distortion and fallacious cherry picking can change those facts. Skeptics, that debates over. Let's all move on and work out what we're going to do about this problem, before it gets too late.
Cory Anders
# Cory Anders
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:45 PM
Jeez Malcom you're coping some flak here. I think some of these wingnuts are double dipping.

Good article, thanks.

Bob SW
# Bob SW
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:46 PM
Malcom, as a swinging voter I applaud your stance on this issue.

Anybody associated with the oil & gas industry knows that this issue has been on the table for over thirty years. The industry remains divided: on one side the scientists (who accept the reality of AGW) and on the other side are their bosses, the profit takers (who reject the scientific consensus on AGW). It is understandable that many scientists employed in this sector are not in a position to bite the hand that feeds them. And there is scant reason to blow a whistle when scientific consensus already exists.

And so it is that decisive government action is the only way forward on this issue. A market driven by profit will only change tack when their is a financial incentive to do so. And this ETS is the softest option; the only softer option being the new coalition policy of inaction.

It's unfortunate, albiet expected, that this issue has degenerated into a political football match between the outspoken fringes of Australian politics. It is a sad day for us moderates. We call for a moderate response and when it comes it is defeated by hard left (greens without means) and the hard right (Howard's minchinites and the National Coal Mining Party)

I sincerely wish you luck in the months ahead, Malcolm, and support wholeheartedly your position on this issue. I didn't vote for Kevin Rudd at the last election (based partly on the coalitions support of an ETS) but fear that I will not have an alternative at the next election given the importance of this issue.

I can tolerate Tony Abbott's social conservitism (just) and, personally, don't mind the bloke -I too enjoyed contact sport and once flirted with the priesthood - but I cannot, and will not, stand silent and endure this baseless posturing on AGW. It's entertaining stuff but politics without policy is, well, politics. And us experienced voters can smell that shit from a distance.

Besides, the last time I gave the hard right the benefit of the doubt I ended up with the Iraq War and Osama the oddly ubiquitous fugitive. So sorry Tony but once biten, twice shy.

Malcolm, I know you have the broad support of the Australian public. Not just because of your stance on this issue but the fact that you stood up and went toe to toe with the hard right faction in your party when even most labor politicians fail to muster the nuts to give them a serious run for their money.

To my mind, 'mate', you've simply picked the wrong time to take the Liberal Party forward while also keeping the National Party in check. Also, the strength of your personality is clearly a double-edged sword and, as such, as you move forward I hope you balance your charisma with a good dash of humility (eg displays of arrogance toward pesky journalists is NOT cool - we know you're a powerful man, get over it).

That said, you have presented yourself as an inspirational, honest and fearless leader and we, the average Australian, love you for it.

All things considered, you've got my support.

Bob SW


















Simon
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:48 PM
Thanks - it's good to hear a straight opinion rather than spin. Interestingly the majority of people saw through the spin last week - at least as measured by the responses to Joe Hockey's tweet on the ETS. Results here: http://bit.ly/4FdlCj
helen
# helen
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:48 PM
Abbott is odd, silly and dangerous.
Sit on the bakc bench and keep the b's honest until the time is right and then it will be right for all of us
Don
# Don
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:48 PM
Well i have watched Malcom from the start , his stance on becoming a republic to this ETSand i certainly dont see him as leadership material.
And another thing that concerns me is that people will become members of a political party, surly you cant agree with everything a party stands for??
If Rudd becomes to arrogent and we still cant understand what hes saying at the next election well we just get rid of him.
Lets face it , Howard was voted out !! ( he got arrogent) Rudd wasnt voted in.
Sorry Malcom im glad ur gone , just to "Top end of Collins st" for me.
John
# John
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:48 PM
Malcolm - have a listen to last Friday's ABC Counterpoint - hardly an ultra-right conspiracy programme - have YOU actually gone through the scientific 'evidence' that (1) there is anything other than natural cyclical changes in the climate (2) it is heating (3) it is due to CO2 (4) it is man made CO2 that is te problem (5) imposing a multi-billion tax would reduce CO2 (6) such a reduction, if achieved, would alter the course. There are just too many unanswered questions. It has become like the Hans Christian Andersen fable of the Emperor's new clothes - few if any are prepared to even suggest that there may be a problem with the science, not with the process. Have the debate, then if the science is incontrovertible, act. Don't kill the economy for no purpose.
helen
# helen
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:49 PM
Abbott is odd, silly and dangerous.
Sit on the back bench and keep the b's honest until the time is right and then it will be right for all of us
Abdul Harenthji
# Abdul Harenthji
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:49 PM
@Ben

Well said but I fear you are wasting your time with some people.

Well done Mr Turnbull, conviction politician with guts to speak out.
Jereme
# Jereme
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:50 PM
Malcolm,
You rock. The jewel in any political partys crown is tout Sustainability as their focus in the next election. It encompasses so much of what people in this great country care about. Sustaining jobs, education, industry and the environment.

I am terribly scared that the liberal party has headed down this path. As an Aussie voter living in America, the association that people are making with the Liberals Party and Conservative right wing republicans, is rather distasteful.

Nothing like a good election loss to refocus the party though eh :)

Jereme
Chris
# Chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:51 PM
Keep up the good fight,

The politics of fear and ignorance wheeled out by Tony Abbott hold no future for the Liberal party or the country.

It is rank hypocrisy to criticise your strategy given that current, pack of power hungry leftovers will only be removed by force.

Continue to shine the light on these unprincipled, parasitic leftovers.
Michael
# Michael
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:51 PM
Malcom,

when will you face the fact that you had your roll of the dice and wasted it!

Australian's expect the opposition to exhaust all avenues of enquiry in keeping the government of the day honest.

You and the Prime Minister have attempted with hate speak (ie climate change sceptic) and other shallow vehicles to make Australians feel like the issue is so simple they must be stupid not to get it. You have also employed the public good will to address potential for man made climate change factors to bully the ordinary Australian into swallowing one of the biggest social elite shams since Hitler was swept to power in Germany.

Australians like new taxes less than they do politicans...

Back your new leader, stop being a poor loser and finally, if you are serious about saving the planet as you say you are then a clever fellow like you should be able to fina another way that doesnt include a hard to expalin BIG TAX!!
Rob
# Rob
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:52 PM
Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm...you said time for some straight talking so here it is. Quit while you are ahead and still have some pride, please!! You have been beaten and the party has spoken on the issue (this time by a secret ballot an not on your say so), so let democracy take it's course. Have some pride and move on instead of spitting your dummy like a spoilt brat.
Roy Lange
# Roy Lange
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:52 PM
Malcolm, you're too witty and charming to be in the Liberals or indeed any party. This is the vanilla age. Where a Rove or Rudd can captivate a nation. Your charisma is your greatest weakness. Please don't let that stop you sticking it right up them!
Lozzy
# Lozzy
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:53 PM
Boy your comments really take the cake. In terms of dummy spits yours would have to be better than Mark Latham!. Grow up nd move on. Brendan Nelson didn't post negatives about his leader when he was de-throned.

As far a global warming, climate change, etc is concerned, to use your vernacular, "Bullshit"
Eric
# Eric
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:54 PM
Geoff Brown (like your hat, but mine's bigger), yes the Hockey Stick was wrong. Some scientific data interpretation is wrong and this is why Science is so valuable in that in questions itself constantly. I am a scientist who has on most occasions questioned mathematical/computerised models. However, there is plenty of other evidence out there if you care to exhaustively search the literature AND rely on your own observations. Steven Fielding went to the Heartland Institute of America to get his "facts". This mob by the way is heavily funded by energy giants such as Exxon. No wonder they have a biased view to present!! For the moment, the ETS is the best we have and it may not be enough. It will cost us dearly but I do not mind paying a tax on energy if it will help. This monster is bigger than the economy and get that through your heads!!! i.e. "its the Earth stupid..." This might sound like an extreme analogy but if scientists discovered that a meteor/comet was heading our way in 2040 and would wipe us out what would we do. Say, "Nah, that's bullshit" or endeavour to invest everything ( your pay included!) e.g.we had to use our total world nuclear armaments and combined workforces to send the thing off course. Have a Royal Commission? Steve Fielding?

Even if there is no GW then surely we must reduce our carbon emissions to save our finite coal/gas/oil reserves and decrease air pollution. For those last reasons alone, the ETS is worth it.

Although I support Rudd et al. I believe that any government should have an EFFECTIVE opposition. The Liberal Party is not effective. I disliked Malcolm Turnbull at first and he had a shaky start etc. He then showed compassion and real emotion for us all to see. Given time he would have and hopefully will show himself to be an effective opposition leader. Unlike "Tony About", who believes in the old Menziesian(?) take that an opposition should deny the Government at every turn and without question, MT has taken a bipartisan stance on the ETS. That does not mean he agrees with Labor on all other issues. It shows sensibility and not me-tooism!!

I went to school with Nick Minchin. He was academically
gifted and a great sportsman. Well-liked but he did not seem to have any close friends. He didn't belong to any "group". A bit of a dark horse as I recollect. I remember him telling a teacher that he was proud of his Germanic backround in Adelaide. I was also somewhat flabbergasted when he admitted last year that he smoked dope in his school days (not inhaled?). He was just not that sort of bloke if you know what I mean. Hmm?
Somewhere in The Australian on-line I said this:

After the Liberal Party shot off both its left and right feet and ending up with a budgie smuggler, The National Party have good reason to feel cocky.

I thought that was funny if I may say so myself...
Mary Blackmore
# Mary Blackmore
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:56 PM
Dear Ben

Well I do despair at your appalling ignorance of the facts.Please start questioning the government-controlled media's view of the world. These three assertions are patently wrong. You sound intelligent: look into the CRU scandal, and see the ramifications, especially for what 'peer review' actually means at present.

To start with : latest BBC report on the CRU.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/8395514.stm

Like our mainstream media, you have a lot to catch up on, get onto it now, as there will be more revelations tomorrow, more articles to read.. and more to despair about!


Gerhard
# Gerhard
Monday, December 07, 2009 3:57 PM
All is well Malcom.

We can't really hope to win the next election, I think you made your move to early.

Just bide your time, Abbott & right wing will be crushed.

The sensible moderates will regroup with you at the helm and Krudd will be gone.
dan
# dan
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:03 PM
do everyone a favor and join labor where you belong if you want self appreciation you were nothing in the libs and will be nothing evermore with empty speeches no ideas but shamless to jump on the coat tails of popularity if anyones full of bs it is you turnbull take it up to the government or is your cowardly agenda now just to undermine the libs getting into government
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:03 PM
Malcom! I'd just like to point out that in your rant, you not once mention Solar power, just dirty coal fired power stations with cleaner gas fired ones, or renewables like wind let alone nuclear power or even coal fired power with carbon capture. Why on earth are we even considering any source of power except renewables. Why has everyone got it in there thick skulls that we have to have clean coal and gas fired power stations. End pollution now and put all the funds into renewables. How good will it be to have future generations look back and be able to say, it was that generation that made the tough decision and rubbed out all pollution produced by power sources and generation. Malcom if you really want to make a difference, campaign for REAL change not against the hand that feeds you.
dan
# dan
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:03 PM
do everyone a favor and join labor where you belong if you want self appreciation you were nothing in the libs and will be nothing evermore with empty speeches no ideas but shamless to jump on the coat tails of popularity if anyones full of bs it is you turnbull take it up to the government or is your cowardly agenda now just to undermine the libs getting into government
Mr. I.M.G. Ferguson
# Mr. I.M.G. Ferguson
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:04 PM

Dear Mr Turnbull,

Mr. Rudd is weak on climate change.

The "Mad Monk-Minchin' team are 'bullshit' and a disgrace to society.

Your position bases on principle & knowledge, as you see it, is respected.

You can always walk with your head held high.

With regards,

Mr. I Ferguson
charles scanlon
# charles scanlon
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM
who rembers when the scientists said that the great australian artesian basin was being drained by station owners and they had to be stoped as it would take 100 years to fill it up again. some said that australia never had enough rain to fill it and the water must come underground from new guinea.
one big flood and the bloody thing was overflowing , blowing the well heads out.
have not heard what those scientists are doing now,climate change experts i expect. or perhaps they retired when their grants ran out after fixing the hole in the ozone layer.
Raoul Machal
# Raoul Machal
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM
Here's some straight talkback: Before toff bully boy Malcom fully decends into school yard jargon and antics, he should do the decent thing: Hand back his Liberal party membership and formally join the hollier-than-thou worshipers in the Church of Global Warmology. Or perhaps form a new Australian Republican Party? Then Malcom can play CIC and prance around trying to rid Australians of our Queen, our wealth and sanity, all in one big leap of fanatical faith.
Frankie V.
# Frankie V.
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:07 PM
Malcolm, you are not the Chosen One. You do not have a special destiny. An invitation to the Playboy Mansion is not Excalibur. You're just a dude. And a dude with a gift for rubbing people up the wrong way.

Forget all the faux praise from Labor party groupies because the Libs are the only party that will have you, and if you want a future with them you must start playing nice.
penboss
# penboss
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:08 PM
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right? So there shouldn't just be one accepted opinion that everyone has to go along with whether they like it or not. There should be both a party in opposition and a party in government. Some people can afford to pay the costs of a certain policy, and some people can't. But if everyone gets to choose who represents them, then even people who haven't got all that extra cash to throw away can still have their say about the new taxes the government's got planned for us all. If you like the government's new tax, for example, you vote for the government. If you think the government's wrong, the beauty is, you get to vote for someone else. Or at least, ideally, there'd be an opposition that represents you and other people like you, who can't afford the new tax. But what happens when the opposition and the government both say the same thing, and no one stands up for people like me, who don't believe in this tax? Shouldn't there be an opposition that represents people like me? Shouldn't there be two choices, instead of just one? This idea that the government and everyone who believes in their tax can bully and browbeat the rest of us to shut up, is not a good sign. It suggests a narrow-mindedness and an inability to imagine that other people still count, even if these other people have less cash and therefore a different view about how much they can spare. I mean, if you support the government, but you don't want to literally join them, you could start your own party, and leave at least one party for the rest of us, right? Just as long as there still is some opposition left, and not just a ruling oligarchy to enforce the one line.
Patrick
# Patrick
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:09 PM
Malcolm, what have you done? My 6 year cannot spit the dummy like you, and she has had more practice.

And why are you spitting the dummy? You have a great family, great careers in many fields, a lot of money, you have been in parliament and were the leader of a major party. Just one of those things would be great for most people around the world to achieve at some stage in their life, but you achieved it all.

But because someone did to you, what you did to your predecessor, you believe you have the right to act like a spoilt 5 year old tantrem throwing brat. Malcolm!

You could well have come back in the future, but not now. Now your tantrem and not your principles will always be remembered.

You should go away now Malcolm, you have gone from being a role model for my kids to an embarassment, and you have just about totally shredded your dignity.

Oh, and on the topic of ETS, I know that is not what your dummy spit is about.

Man up, grow up.

Will Jurgens
# Will Jurgens
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:10 PM
There is no such straight line in climate science. It is uncertain to the point of total obscurity. To pretend otherwise is misleading and deliberately disingenuous. If the science is obscure then what chance solutions. Better to hand out birth control pills and methods to reduce our footprint on the earth rather than rely on market mechanisms and other computer modelling which ended us up in the GFC. This is nothing but a cynical exercise in trying to gain some political traction. The whole thing started with a con in Brazil pre Kyoto and has ended in brainless hysteria.
Glenn
# Glenn
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:13 PM
Malcolm, I am not a natural liberal voter - but I have found myself drawn to centre right thinking the older I get - your thoughts and opinions are striking a chord with moderate liberal thinking Aussies - time to leave the far right to the cowboys Malcolm and create a new political force in this country that is relevant to "liberal" thinking voters.
Paul Hewitt
# Paul Hewitt
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:14 PM
I agree with 'bide your time comment'.
Abbott will lead next election, (disaster). Liberal Party needs time in wilderness to regroup, as did Labor.
Then you can make your move. A new younger Liberal Party, purged of all the dead wood.
doug
# doug
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:16 PM
Thank you for telling the truth about the ignorance and culture of denial in the liberal ranks.

Anyone who thinks there is no solid science behind climate change has their head stuck firmly where the sun does not shine.

Sadly so many people especially Liberals are far more concerned with short term financial benefit than long term planning.

If you doubt that global warming is a fact please read the following website.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/wheres-the-data/
Mary
# Mary
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:17 PM
Malcolm, it's time to go. This climate change issue is a no-go in my book and even more so now with the release of the 'climategate' emails

You always came across as supercilious, even though you are a good local member.

You are doing the party a great deal of harm by throwing your tantrums

The best man won fair and square and the opinion polls are showing that

Doing the rounds today among my Wentworth friends (I too am in Wentworth) they would not vote for you again, which means a waste of a vote by voting informally
Elspeth
# Elspeth
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:18 PM
If only you had been so determined and passionate during your time as the Lib Leader. I am not a Lib voter myself...but agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments and frustrations. Hopefully Tony's stay as opposition leader will be as blissfully short as that some-time ago of Alexander Downer!! It won't be long - with his comments recently - before he opens his mouth to put BOTH feet in there.
Hewy
# Hewy
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:20 PM
@Raoul
@Frankie
@Patrick
Kids...please

Thanks for the words Malcom
Warwick
# Warwick
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:22 PM
Your position, like Mr Rudd's, is that the world will become scarcely liveable without a drastic reduction in the release of carbon dioxide.

Then why are you endorsing a plan which will only reduce our local consumption of coal by a mere 5%?

At the moment 75% of the coal that we dig up is exported, and the state and federal governments are spending billions of dollars on ports, rail lines and the like so that this amount (coal exported) can be doubled, at least, by the year 2030.

To bring in a scheme that targets only the locally consumed coal, while encouraging the expansion of the much greater segment of our coal production, shows that you, and Mr Rudd, are not serious about reducing the release of carbon dioxide into the world's atmosphere.

It is true that Mr Abbott believes that the fear of catastrophic, man - made global warming is one of those hysterias that sometimes arise. They occur regularly at the stock exchanges and now we have one amongst the worlds scientists. But there are many scientists who have kept their heads and the absence of any global warming for the last decade shows that there is a lack of empirical evidence to support the catastrophist phrophecies.

Tony Abbott claims he accepts that the gas released from our industry will lead to this awful destruction but that he can undo the damage without spending much money. This is, as you say, rubbish; he is trying to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

But your stance, where you claim to be a Gore - type true believer, but turn your back on our gigantic coal exports, is just as ridiculous, just as inconsistent.

The global warming scare will prove to be as foundationless as the scare campaigns run by the Ehrlichs and the Club of Rome. Neither you nor Abbott have the commonsense and courage needed to pour cold water on this adolescent panic.

Warwick Wakefield
Steve
# Steve
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:22 PM
MT

I am confused whether MT is working for Kevin007, the way he attacks his leader has proven he has joined the wrong party
Hewy
# Hewy
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:24 PM
Mary, so you're in Wentworth, yeah sure.
You accuse Malcom of being supercilious, just have a look at yourself.
Insider
# Insider
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:25 PM
Ohh what a pathetic, miserable little child. I am disgusted to say the least. Your political career has been very embarassing to witness at times. You failed as The Minister for the Environment and Water Resources. Infact, you failed in all your portfolios. You had no hope of leading ANY party to one single election. I would not want my children to watch me fail time and time again. In one single blog you have proven money doesn't buy happiness. You have also proven to be a Selfish, immature, hypocritical moron. There were many reasons I never showed you any respect. Now you are making sure many others will also treat you like the dillusional, missguided money grabbing bull shit artist your portraying yourself to be. Mr Abbott is in charge. You, turnbull are insignifigant. Your political career will go down in history as a monumental failure. We are fed up with your bull shit turnbull. You are the sorest LOSER I can think of. Judging by these posts you have commited political suicide in spectacular fashion. You can't be so naieve to take the supporting posts seriously.
Will Jurgens
# Will Jurgens
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:25 PM
Oh, and by the way, badmouthing, bullying, distortion and misleading etc. etc. not only demeans you but gives a pointer to the level of respect you have for our intelligence and for anyone other than yourself. You underestimate the majority of us. We will judge you on the character you display using such tactics. Also by the way, I am no one elses stooge so accept this in the way it is intended. Develop dignity and public integrity and stop treating us as morons, you may then stand a better chance of succeding in politics, where you have been an abject failure to date, starting with your contribution to the mess with the republic recommendations. Respect garners respect in return.
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:26 PM
Come on Malcolm, get over yourself. You tried, you failed, you got kicked out. Deal with it. As for climate change, until the Australian public is given the true scientific data (not data from flawed models, compromised data, misleading data etc etc) we only have the word of a very select few that it is what is being reported. I for one don't deal in fiction or hearsay, only facts, and these have NOT been forthcoming in an open, honest and unbiased fashion.
Peter Campbell
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:26 PM
Malcolm,

Your comments regarding Abbott's political position on "not taxing carbon emissions" are spot on. The game he is playing is described here:

http://www.greenlivingpedia.org/The_end_of_the_world_as_we_know_it

But I don't think your support for Rudd's heavily compromised ETS (CPRS) is warranted. Treasury modelling shows it won't reduce emissions until after 2030. It also ignores Garnaut's recommendations to not give out free permits or cash payments to polluters (corporate welfare), nor exempt agriculture and petrol.

We need an immediate cost on carbon and a simple tax would be the best way to do this - not a market based system that provides no abatement.

Immedidate legislated energy efficiency standards and a national gross feed in tariff are needed too.

Dorota
# Dorota
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:26 PM
Malcolm,
Do you actually understand science? Did you attended a primary school?
I was fooled many years ago until things didn't made sense anymore.
CO2 poison gas! Hey, maybe the next thing will be that the "Earth is flat", hmm?

Stop insulting the nation! Get a life and out of Liberal Party now!

Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:26 PM
An issue like this, being one that affects so many very powerful interests, will almost inevitably end up polarising portions of the electorate.
Thankfully, Malcolm's (and Judith Troeth's) recent contributions to the debate give the lie to the lazy, and frankly opportunistic, line that this is (or should be portrayed as) a Labor/Liberal issue.
Sandra
# Sandra
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:27 PM
Malcolm, how many ppm's of CO2 emissions will this ETS remove straight away from our environment? Penny Wong couldn't answer that question in Parliament, perhaps you can? Or is it that Australia just pays money (from the ETS tax) to Gambia or some other country with 'carbon credits' because they have no industry, while our polluting industries continue pumping it out here for the next 10 years with the appropriate 'compensations' taken from this ETS tax on all Australians earning more than $60,000 pa?
You see, all that the ETS does is move the money around!
Why is it that astronomers have been reporting that other planets in our solar system have been showing indicators of climate change around the same time as on our planet?
If you want to check if a scheme is as 'good for all' as it claims, check out who stands to benefit and by how much.
mike wang
# mike wang
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:29 PM
Agreed, thought I am not sure the amendment negotiated with the Govt was fair and efficient.

Under the proposed amendment, big polluters were rewarded at the expense of consumers. A lot of big polluters have strong market powers and will be able to pass majority of the cost, which inevitably will be borne by the consumers. Therefore subsidies should be directed to consumers rather than industry. The proposed amendment had it totally the wrong way!

To claim that consumers would be affected less and therefore need smaller subsidies due to a stronger dollar and lower carbon price makes absolutely no sense. First, in the short to medium term where international trade of permits will be limited, strength of A$ will have only marginal influence on carbon cost in Australia. Second, the current surge in A$ is only a short-term phenomena and only against US$. Performance against other major currencies such as Euro and Yen is fairly neutral. There is no evidence to suggest the appreciation of A$ will be sustainable and across the board over the next few years. Finally, common sense would tell you that with more free permits issued to industry, supply of permits will be tighter which will then driver up prices. Even the Government’s own calculations indicate this.

The end purpose of ETS is to encourage consumers to switch to less carbon intensive products. It is the consumers who will have to make the decision. It is still the consumers who will bear the costs. Therefore the revenue from permits should go to the consumers not industry (except in the case of trade exposed industries).
Peter Edwards
# Peter Edwards
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:29 PM
Mr Turnbull, I believe that one reason so many people are worried about whether or not they should accept the concept of an ETS tax is that other than personal views, spin and confusing "statistics" from both sides of the debate, including many scientists, no one in the general public has had anything explained in a clear and concise way that will make them, or me anyway, comfortable in any decision made, but particularly for Rudd to lock Australia into action that may be detrimental to us in the fuure. Surely we can wait a few months and have a friendly, adult discussion, without any screetching and screaming, from either side, on what the rest of the world will be doing and make our decision accordingly?
I do not believe that your personal animosity and cosntant "sniping" at Mr Abbott will achieve anything at all, for anyone, except to lose more Liberal supporters that I believe definitely do not want this damaging attitude that you are displaying, to continue.
Steve
# Steve
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:30 PM
Malcolm, I agree with your position on climate change, however, your attacks on your "colleagues" are what cost you the leadership. Today's blog just does more to damage to your cause. Being seen as doing the wrong thing in personal relationships loses you respect. Being right about the policy does not help. If you want swinging voters to listen to you, then you need to retain their respect.
Peter
# Peter
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:31 PM
Sir,

Your little meltdown reminds me of Max in Where the Wild Things are. Max doesn't get his way so he goes and smashes up the place where he lived. At least he had the decency to run away for a while. Perhaps there is a message in that for all of us ....

Nobody wants the ETS. It does nothing for the planet whatsoever. It will devastate the economy. And all for reasons that are not yet settled.

You may not believe the skeptics Malcolm, but as they say, "follow the money" or in your case, the markets. Have a look here at the latest prices on the Carbon Exchange .... http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/

As you can see the market is voting on ETS, Copenhagen etc. With its wallet. It looked for a while like good old Kenneth Lay of Enron might have been onto something when he dreamed up carbon trading. But alas ....

Time to back away from this Malcolm, and deny the conspiracy theorists the opportunity to remind people of the billions that the investment banking stand to make from this, inevitably bringing your motives into question.

Perhaps take leaf from young Max. Buy a boat and go for a little cruise. Relax Malcolm, or you'll pop a rivet.

Kind regards,
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:31 PM
Judging from some of the vitriol being posted here, the coal industry has gone and organised itself an angry mob.
Ms Liz
# Ms Liz
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:31 PM
Malcolm, what party do you belong to?

This ‘debate’ over man-made global warming has been hijacked by the likes of you, who claim that if anyone is against Rudd's ETS then somehow they are against the environment. That is absolute utter bullshit.

Grow up and stop snivelling Malcolm; it doesn't become you.

Give Abbott time to come up with an alternative to Chairman Rudd's ETS and then we'll debate the merits of each accordingly.

Here's a thought... Seeing as you belong to the Coalition (or you say you do), how about you try helping them instead of being a white ant.
Robbie
# Robbie
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:32 PM
Despite being a big support of you, I have totally disagreed with your handling of the ETS. Your actions are now getting to be disgraceful and constantly hand Labor more points. It is time to listen to the people that vote for the Liberal Party. Not everything you believe in is universally supported.

Instead of stepping down gracefully, you have acted like a spoilt child. You didn't get what you wanted so you are going to jump up and down and cause as many problems as you can.

Maybe Abbott can lead us away from the brink of financial ruin that all our wonderful Labor governments have given us, without a massive tax grab.
Shane
# Shane
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:33 PM
Malcolm, I think you're behaving very poorly over this matter. We all forgave you when you went-off (wrongly) over Ute-Gate, but I can assure you that a lot of people I've spoken with will NOT forgive you if you continue to tear-apart the Liberal Party over your personal desire to impress the left with your support of the ETS.

Get over it Malcolm, the party, and your elected leader, do NOT support the ETS at this point in time. This is not to say it won't be supported, just that some time is needed to fully understand what it's all about.

Your behaviour is bordering on discraceful. You're acting like a sore loser!
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:33 PM
Oh, I forgot. Do us all a favour you whining little boy, quit politics and go count your money.
Richard Smallwood
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:36 PM
Malcom,

losing the leadership challenge was indeed a farce. but part of strong leadership is the ability to avoid that sort of dissention in the ranks.

this sort of blog rant posting comes across as really 'childish' and does nothing for your party.

the ETS would have been a good start - but it was no 'cure' for climate change.

at least people are now talking about 'alternative ways' to solve the problem.

why not focus on that? (and show some grace.)
JAMES
# JAMES
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:36 PM
I have never voted for the Liberal party in my life.

However I think that Malcolm's performance in the last week as leader of the Liberal party was brilliant, and he really showed a glimpse of what might have been. I would have voted for the Libs had Malcolm still been leader at the next election, as would a lot of other disappointed Labor voters I know.
joe paice
# joe paice
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
Mr Turnbull and Mr Rudd are business men looking after their own business interests. Fact, Howard discussed a GST for many years then took it to an election and the Australian people had an informed vote. Fact, Rudd was elected to reverse Work Choices (and have they done so....really?) and is trying to RUSH a new tax through parliament without debate. Australians deserve due diligence and due process. Climate Change is supposed to be based on science, not blind faith like a religion, so yes it should be debated and discussed.
Eric
# Eric
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
I forgot to say this. Malcolm, either you hang in there in a dysfunctional party or you start your own!! I'm sure that the Liberal party will be dysfunctional for some time yet with a Machiavellian controlled budgie in charge. Check the numbers carefully and discretely of your support base, don't rush, plan, wait for the right time, double check and pounce!
Above all, patience. A new party would be interesting and heaven forbid, an alliance/compromise in the Senate with the Greens? Who knows? At least it would be
SERIOUS fun as there are a lot of middle-of-the road voters out here. Whatever, I'd like a real fight from an alternate opposition.
roel loopers
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:37 PM
Great article Malcolm. Never thought I would hear that from a Liberal!
NoBory
# NoBory
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:39 PM
I see the alt text attached to the header image still says "Malcolm Turnbull, Leader of the Opposition". You wish. Suggest you get it fixed. Dill.
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:39 PM
Hi Malcolm,

I resigned from the Liberal party this week, ending a 40 year association. This issue is so vital I find it hard to credit that they are still arguing the fundamentals.

In good conscience one could not support such a group - I commend your stand.

Regards

David
Remy
# Remy
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:40 PM
Andrew Bolt, is that you posting in all this shite?
Why don't some of you anti AGW get together with the lunatic right of the Liberal Party, find that raving moron Bolta a seat, elect him to lead, you'll all be happy then, right? Throw in with the Neanderthals from the Nats
Meanwhile, Malcom can lead the true Liberals, a solid opposition holding the government to account.
Melinda
# Melinda
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:42 PM
Look at the facts before screaming 'global warming' and 'climate change'. Humans have only been keeping reliable weather records for around 100 years. How can we say this is a global warming event? The earth goes through natural cycles of warm and cool, and has done for 1000's of years even before the world was over populated and overrun by pollution etc...

And try not to be a sore loser, Mr Turnbull. I was glad when you were elected leader of the opposition, but after reading this tirade I am even more glad you were voted out of leadership. This is not how a leader behaves.
Steve
# Steve
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:43 PM
NOBODY NO BRAINS
Dorota
# Dorota
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:44 PM
Strongly suggest a visit to www.noteviljustwrong.com
Dorota
# Dorota
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:45 PM
NoBody, you are great! Keep on!
Patrick
# Patrick
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM
Hewy,

I don't reward my kids when they throw a tantrum, why would I reward an adult.

Hewy, you know this behaviour is wrong, don't try and spin it.
Rainer the cabbie
# Rainer the cabbie
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:51 PM
Talk about spitting the dummy!
But I liked it Malcolm, what the cabbie understood is that the Liberals are only opposing the legislation because they run out of arguments everywhere else. Still, considering the funding of lobbyist on the pollution industry's side, there is no way that Kevin will be able to win a "climate change" election.

What puzzles me is that you and your wealthy mates are actually winning in this taxation game. Make the poor poorer and squeeze the middle class, in order to have carbon reduction.

The only way changes will happen is to tax the industries involved, and threaten to reduce their profits unless they are willing to change.

Neither you nor Kevin are proposing this.

Am I smelling a rat here?
Jo
# Jo
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:51 PM
Malcolm, Would like to hear your thoughts on this article now you have some spare time:

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/Monckton-Caught%20Green-Handed%20Climategate%20Scandal.pdf
Baz
# Baz
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:52 PM
Abbott might be "all ears" but whether he listens, well that's another thing.

Gee, there's no shortage of global warming skeptics blogging here either. Global warming is an major issue that goes outside party lines - keep up the pace Malcolm.
DZ
# DZ
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:52 PM
Barnaby is a HERO!!! HERO!!! HERO!!!
have a cry turnbull
# have a cry turnbull
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:52 PM
You are a loser turnbull, get over it. Someone had to be the loser. Your an absoulute disgrace. Grow up. Your patetic attempted character assassination of Mr. Tony Abbot. ( your superiour. ) is disgusting. Mr Tony Abbott is your boss. You should show him the respect and loyalty he deserves. Mr Tony Abbott should pull you aside and let you know who's running this show. Mr Tony Abbott is the LEADER of the opposition. Your just a bitter and twisted loser making blogs vomiting bullshit and having a childish tantrum. You will go down in history for being rememberd as the loser who couldn't run a chook raffle. Nor lead that chook raffle to one measley election. DISGRACEFULL.
Alex
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:52 PM
Malcolm,

my heartfelt condolences for your recent cliffhanger loss in the party room. In deposing you, your party's swung much further to the right and that's of concern to us all, regardless of our political colours.

Maybe with Abbott's surprise victory, the Liberal party are having their "Mark Latham moment" and will later opt for a more reasoned, moderate, intelligent approach in either you or Joe Hockey.

Let's hope Tony "mad Monk" Abbott's political pugilism isn't able to fend off discovery of his George Bush-esque ignorance. He might be a Rhodes scholar, but he doesn't appear to have applied this scholarship to the climate change debate.

Keep nipping at his AND Kevin's heels. To quote Don Chipp, "keep the bastards honest."

Carolyn
# Carolyn
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:53 PM
It's disappointing that so many who have posted here would rather protect their fat wallets than acknowledge we will all have to pay more to protect this earth. Look at the waste, finite resources and melting ice caps.
At least Malcolm had the courage of his convictions and didnt cave in to the polls. The Liberal party has seen the last of my support after 30 years.
There is nothing more important than saving the planet.
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:54 PM
Steve, I see you the intellectual capacity in the equivallance of a peanut (same as the petulant MT). Show me unassailable, independantly verified data (not bullshit) re so called Global warming. Meanwhile go hold MT's hand, wipe his nose and go play in traffic.
Pat
# Pat
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:55 PM
Remy, the true liberals are never, and have never, taken Turnbulls position, nor do they act like brats.

True liberals act with class in all situations, not just when they are winning!
Nicklaus Mahony
# Nicklaus Mahony
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:56 PM
Thank you for acting in Australia’s economic and environmental interests. What the Far Right coup of the Liberal Party is fighting for is for Australia to delay the inevitable at the expense of Australian business and residents. The world will have an active carbon trading market in the next decade. Australia would be incompetent if it did not lead the creation of such a market. Thank you for having the courage of your convictions and acting in the national interest. If only the rest of your colleagues had the same attribute. As far as I’m concerned a Liberal Party headed by Tony Abbot (On behalf of Minchin) is not the Liberal Party at all.
Colin
# Colin
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:58 PM
@Remy "..a solid opposition holding the government to account.."

Ummmmm... since when is losing the leadership, and trying to burn down the house on your way out, all in a desperate bid to SUPPORT the government's environmentally-pointless big-taxing legislation passing into law, count as "holding the government to account"?!?!

There is only one logical explanation to credibly explain MT's utterly rank FAILURE to hold the government to account over the ETS.

Money.

There is no other remotely plausible explanation for these do-or-die, it-must-be-an-emissions-TRADING-scheme-or-nothing actions by "The Member for Goldman Sachs".

If MT can prove to the public that neither he, nor ANY of his Goldman Sachs cronies, will ever make a single cent out of the multi-trillion dollar (casino) market TRADING bits of paper called "carbon credits", then I will believe that he is a true Gaia-worshipper ... and not just a leader for a very, very long conga line of carpet-bagger banksters.
Alex
# Alex
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:58 PM
Malcolm. We're on to you and your Goldman Sachs buddies. We've seen it in the US and now you are here infiltrating government for power and control. Shame on you. We need direct action on climate change - not a new commodity index for you and your mates to get rich on. How do you sleep at night? Seriously. Either call climate change a farce (like Y2K was) or get on and take some direct action. No more of this garbage that you signed up to with Rudd and Wong. It's just so transparent.

Claire
# Claire
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:59 PM
Hi Malcolm,

Had you not changed you position on voting for the ETS Tax Bill before Copenhagen, you would still be Opposition Leader. You are the one who has flip-flopped.
I believe Tony Abbott made he comment some months that we should give you room to negotiate with the Government re amendments. You & the Stockholm Syndrome victim, Ian McFarlane changed the time-line.
Perhaps you should resign from the Liberal Party & go home to the party that fits more naturally to your philosophies.
You are loosing a lot of past Liberal supporters.
Claire

Sertified
# Sertified
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:00 PM
I cannot accept that some people just blindly accept the science of one side of this argument and ignore the other. It appears that if you don't aqgree with the ETS you are a climate denier. How convenient for Labor. It's our way or the highway. i wonder how many here sprouting the necessity for the ETS and nothing else have actually done some proper well informed research rather than just listening to the spin of the Labor party or the media?

This debate needs argument based on science not emotion. I know some people get all warm and fuzzy over saving the planet etc etc but lets use some common sense for something that even the scientists admit they don't understand. Afetr all that is what science is, provide an explanation for what we don't understand and to hypothesise.
Derridian
# Derridian
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:01 PM
Malcolm,

I have voted Labor my entire life, but, for the first time, I can see and hear a true 'liberal' in what you've written and what you've said. I'm not sure that I would have voted for you as leader, but if the Rudd Government loses it's way I may well have, for the very first time, considered voting Liberal. It was good to see that there was an alternative... now I confess, that will not be the case. Abbott and the clique surrounding him are irrationally conservative... oppositionalist, blindly ignorant and clearly cynics in the true sense of that word.

It's time to contemplate a schism! Go out and form a new truly 'liberal' party... one that stands for all the values and aspirational elements such a notion embodies. Forget trying to win the Tories over... that's history... so too is the Liberal Party. Abbott is a populist ideologue who will simply lead your party to years in the wilderness. A real alternative will reinvigorate the electorate and empower voices so far silenced by the great two party divide.

Abbott has confessed to not reading the IPCC report, to not completely reading Plimer's dubious book of denial and to not actually digesting the Hadley Climate Centre's data! You on the other hand demonstrated a well researched and clear understanding of the available material on the subject. Quite frankly I don't know how Liberal voters can have any confidence in Abbott at all, from any perspective. As for Minchin... his adherence to Lord Monckton's ravings is utterly bizarre!

I commend you for your honour and integrity. I do not subscribe to the abandonment of representational politics for the party line and never have. If your constituency wish you to pursue a policy, then it behoves any elected representative to do so. You Sir, are doing precisely that.... the evidence is in the polls and has been for months, if not years... hence the Howard Government's, apparently disingenuous, efforts to campaign on the basis that climate change would be addressed via an ETS.

I am reminded of Greg Barns' book, "What's Wrong with the Liberal Party". Apart from possessing a fine mind, Barns is clearly prescient... and a well informed critic of what has finally transpired in the most aggressive form possible; the death of the liberal faction in the Liberal Party and an even more substantial pedestal for the conservative faction, despite the failure of the Howard experiment.

In closing... all the very best. Please continue presenting the rational cogent argument you have to date and please, please, do not cave into to craven conformity. Your political career depends on this. Moreover... please consider the establishment of a new 'liberal' party, one founded on the tenets of that great intellectual school.

Kind regards,

Derridian.
Frankie V.
# Frankie V.
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:01 PM
@ Alex

Ah yes, Don Chipp. Another of history's great dummy spitters. Started a new party because Fraser wouldn't give him a ministry.
Seb Harlow
# Seb Harlow
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:02 PM
Malcom, hope the article above doesn't damage your standing with moderates within the party. It's fairly strong, god knows it will p**s off the f***wits on the right.

You have the ability to lead a great party, but you must take the true Liberals with you.

As for calling Malcom a sore loser, or worse, what do you so called Liberal supporters want?....a mouse like Tip waiting for the leadership to be handed over on a silver platter?

Of course he is going to fight the back stabbing b******s that pushed the 'anyone but Malcom' agenda, despite what it might do to the party.

Gee Abbott 42 Turnbull 41. What unity. Why wasn't Fran Bailey able to proxy? What about the two newcomers.

Judith Troeth calls a spill, goodbye Abbott

Geoff Brown
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:04 PM
Eric@3:54pm

Anonymous Eric:

Bigoil money – you say Heartland gets that. Does it matter? What matters is the science.
Are IPCC/CSIRO etc scientist pure? Or do they look for BigGovt.Funds?

The Vostok Ice Cores show that CO2 doesn’t cause the warming, rather warming causes the increase in CO2.

The fact that an IPCC lead author (Jonathan Overpeck) emailed a scientist from Oklahoma Uni (David Deming) and said: “If we are to make an impact, we have to get rid of the MWP!” (Co-incidentally confirmed in the leaked CRU e-mails) and then MBH came out with the fraudulent and disgraced “hockey stick” graph, would make one doubt the science even before the leaked CRU e-mails.

We have an e-mail from the IPCC admitting that they have no proof that (poor harmless innocent colourless and maligned on ABC with pictures of steam!) CO2 causes AGW but that they rely on the EPA, a body that has declared that CO2 is a dangerous pollutant.

The main arguments against the sceptical (or realist) viewpoint come down to

• Supported by BigOil whereas Alarmist science is supported by alarmist left governments;
• Ad hominen Attacks on the person Please address the science offered (didn’t like MT – then he showed he was pretty left – I liked him; Minchin “proud of his Germanic background” …so?? And then the ultimate, the insult that lost a NSW opposition leader an election – linking Abbott and budgie smugglers. Shame on you?

You say (sarcastically?): Have a Royal Commission? Steve Fielding?

Why not have a Royal Commission? Why not question the link between C02 and AGW? Is there one? There is still no proof and the evidence is retreating fast as the leaked CRU e-mails are examined.

Were YOU cheered by John L Daly’s death?

Adam
# Adam
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:08 PM
Ahh Mal, It shouldn't have come as too much of a shock to be kicked out of the top spot in the underdogs, but there's probably enough shit on your liver to get you back into a leadership role in an investment bank...

The ETS will severely savage every non polluter in Australia while allowing the coal mines and power providers to get off without any penalty - an Opposition (that means to Oppose Mal!) would have realised that the electorate should not be expected to stand for this, rather than just grabbing your ankles.

Surely the former NATIONAL party members who represent the rural people would not have been behind the taxation of pastoral producers who would be forced off the land - as their sales would barely cover the increase?

Let's face it, climate change is about as true as your chances of becoming the next prime minister Mal. Liberal leaders are like nappies, and they should be changed frequently for the same reason.
Alex
# Alex
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:09 PM
Well done Malcom. Tell it like it is.

Tony Abbot is is going to destroy the liberal party with its backward thinking climate skeptisicm and bullshit political spin. Tony should have the guts to tell the truth; that he is a skeptic supported by skeptics.

Even John Howard supported an ETS!! Tony's backflip on the ETS make the liberal party look untrustowrthy. He might get the radical right wing skeptics on board. But the rest of Australia thinks doing nothing on climate change is wrong.
peter rasey
# peter rasey
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:09 PM
well well good by-elections results
and guess what
you can not help but try and spoil the party
grow up
Phil
# Phil
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:10 PM
Hey Malcolm, Why don't you just join the Labour Party? Let's face it. The Liberal Pary extruded you because you're like a foreign body within the party. At least have the grace to remove your ego from the spotlight. And while you're at it, why don'y you actually apprise yourself of some facts about climate change instead of mindlessly going with the flow. Cheers Kevin. Um. I mean Malcolm.
Trevor
# Trevor
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:12 PM
Mr Turnbull,
I am totally disgusted by your outrageous attack on the Liberal Party & Tony Abbott.
This is the Party you are supposed to represent in the seat of Wentworth.
It seems as though that anyone who might listen & learn & develop a different opinion to yourself is an idiot or just plain wrong.
Is it not possible, even plausible that you are wrong with your beliefs on "climate change?"
If you are right, then the VAST majority of scientists are wrong, but you of course wouldn't let that little fact influence your thinking would you as no one elses opinion counts for anything in in "Malcolm's World".
Just in case you are interested I have attached a link for you that is a petition with over 31,000 scientists that speak against the conn job that is being pulled on the public the world over but more importantly on Australians.
Wake up & smell the coffee Malcolm instead listening only to the side of the story that suits your uneducated (on this matter) opinion.

Please check out the petition for yourself.

If you then decide that you still can't work for the Liberal Party or under Tony Abbott as you are supposed to & not against them as you currently are, please do us all a favour & either resign from the Liberal & run as an independent or join the Labor Party with Krudd, who's policy is better suited to your way of thinking or better still, resign from parliment.

http://www.petitionproject.org/signers_by_last_name.php?run=all
Frankie V.
# Frankie V.
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:13 PM
@ Seb Harlow

"Gee Abbott 42 Turnbull 41. What unity."

As opposed to: Turnbull 45, Nelson 41???????????
Rosco
# Rosco
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:18 PM
Hey Phil, thats a bit unfair. You'll remember it was a very close vote.

Keating had a tilt, lost, retired to the backbench and came back to be one of the greatest PMs in our short history.

Malcom can do the same
Frankie V.
# Frankie V.
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:21 PM
@ Rosco

"Keating . . . came back to be one of the greatest PMs in our short history."

OK, now you're just trolling.
John
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:22 PM
While the Federal Liberal Party (& the NSW State Labor Government) continue to be driven by factionalism based on the quest for political power the both will be dysfunctional. Factionalism forces a party to abandon good policy, to benefit the individual self-interest of power-brokers.

It is important for moderate members of the Liberal Party to continue to seek good policy, including on climate change. Malcolm, you and other moderate Liberals must continue to speak out.

For a Rocky Horror Show take on recent events, see:
http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2009/12/libs-jump-to-right-with-abbott.html
and
http://truepolitik.blogspot.com/2009/12/keneally-first-nsw-woman-premier.html

John
(largely centrist, perhaps just left of centre, and concerned about the ethics of politicians and governments)
Elizabeth
# Elizabeth
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:24 PM
Talk about sour grapes Malcolm. When you took on the Liberal party leadership I had great hopes but thank heavens you're out. Climate change aside, back stabbing like this is the most incredible thing that I have ever seen in any politician. You are obviously hell bent on making sure that you get your own way with the ETS. If that means supporting Kevin Rudd and keeping the Labour party in power than that is apparently fine by you. How else do you explain your actions? Does that mean that I am a staunch liberal supported? No sir. I just hate petulant and spiteful behaviour that you have so clearly displayed.
SPOT ON FRANKIE V
# SPOT ON FRANKIE V
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:24 PM
FRANKIE V.....YOURE SPOT ON !!

I THINK TURNBULL IS ON HERE TYPING BULLSHIT UNDER OTHER NAMES SUCH AS " SEB HARLOW "
Dick Garner
# Dick Garner
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:26 PM
I well remember your arrogant approach to the republic (I was at the Townsville forum) and your buying Wentworth. Then whiteanting Nelson.

i have no preconceived attitude to climate change (it happens all the time - it was cold three months ago and bloody hot today). I have no idea of human contribution.

But I do know the Libs did well in the recent by-elections, just days after turmoil.

Yours and Rudd's 'with us or against us' attitude reminds me of Bush on terrorism. There just could be another way of dealing with a problem that may not be one.

Please spare us from your assumptions that Malcolm (and Kevin) knows best. I am quite capable of thinking for myself.

ALex
# ALex
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:26 PM
Well done Malcom. Tell it like it is.

Tony Abbot is is going to destroy the liberal party with its backward thinking climate skeptisicm and bullshit political spin. Tony should have the guts to tell the truth; that he is a skeptic supported by skeptics.

Even John Howard supported an ETS!! Tony's backflip on the ETS make the liberal party look untrustowrthy. He might get the radical right wing skeptics on board. But the rest of Australia thinks doing nothing on climate change is wrong.
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:26 PM
Trevor,

Good link and a good read. Thanks.
Frank
# Frank
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:28 PM
Well done MT
Seb Harlow
# Seb Harlow
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:29 PM
@Frankie V

Yeah Frankie your right, that was close as well, again what unity. I just wish the loopy right would ride off into the sunset.
The party would stand a much better chance of pulling government. Draw across the soon to be disaffected Labor/swing voters.
With crazies like Minchin pulling the strings it's going to be a long wait.
Anna
# Anna
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:32 PM
Good on you Malcolm. I couldn't agree more and hope that you will continue to stand up for climate change among Liberal ranks, to help move the party into the modern age. We need a progessive, reformist Coalition that acts in the national interest, not a small clique of Luddites acting in the interests of a few.
Nick
# Nick
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:37 PM
At the end of the day it doesn't matter weather you believe in climate change or not, but the harsh reality that the world is facing is a world that hasn't got the infinite amount of resources that some might think we have. The worlds population is growing exponentially and there are alot of smart thinkers out there, that are wondering how or where the resources are going to come from to supply the wants and needs of these people, As the personal wealth of the average chinese / indian person increases, there wants and needs will increase as well and they'll slowly become more and more like us, can the world supply the resources for all of this ?, don't forget in some of these Chinese citys they nearly have the complete population of Australia in one city. part of the liberal partys mantra pre-election was all about good economic policy, well it's my belief that a carbon tax or ETS if done right is good economic policy. Obviously everyone knows about supply and demand so here's a question, what if the worlds wants (demand), exceed the capacity to supply those wants, you have a recipe for massive price increases right there !! the world is changing people, we need to change with it !, although I don't really agree with the way some of the lobbyists have managed to weasle there way out of things, some type of agreement is better then nothing, if the government has the right policys in place to help people to move over to more green friendly production, things shouldn't be as bad as some might say it's going to be. Traditionally no one gave a shit about the back yard company that refused to stay ahead of the game and move along with the times, innovation was admired and applauded.., so whats changed.....? There's a thought from an ex liberal voter, think about
Jack
# Jack
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:40 PM
Malcolm it is apparent to me that you are anticipating a Labour win at the next election at which point you will resign and then surprise! surprise! King Kevin will offer you an important post--ambassador to Siberia with a bit of luck!
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:42 PM
Glad to see turnbulls babysitters have finally changed the heading on his homepage. Claiming to be the leader of the Libs is as turnbull would say - bullshit. You lost remember. Mr Tony abbott is the Leader.
It's a shame a mere uneducated blue collar skeptic had to point out the fact that he was miss leading the public ( once again ) claiming to be someting he is not is why turnbull was sacked. Learn from your mistakes turnbull.
Evan
# Evan
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Mr Turnball: I'm a life long Labor supporter and I'll never vote Liberal ever, BUT thank you for taking such a courageous stand and sticking to your principles.
I fear you are one of the few voices of reason left in the Liberal Party! Sadly Abbott is pandering to the non-believers and the do nothing sceptics!
What you said about Minchin last week was right on the money! He's pulling the strings, and the rest of your party is dancing to his tune!
Whatever supposed policy Greg Hunt delivers in February will be a joke!
Malcolm, I urge you, please resign from the Liberal Party, become an independent or even join the ALP!
Send my best regards to Lucy and your family!
Cheers,
EVAN
wally
# wally
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:44 PM
Malcom what is the hidden adgenda behind your eagerness to pass this tax without and debate? Is it that your banker mate stand to make billions trading carbon. I had the highest regard for you but i cant understand why you have gone against your party.If you are not happy leave and start a new party and see how you go. WE DO NOT NEED A CARBON TAX which the greens agree will do nothing on lowering emmissions. So pull your head you spoilt brat.
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:48 PM
I admire your stance and conviction to what must be one of the biggest concerns to all people who have the rationale, and accept that we cannot go on polluting the air we breathe at the rate we are doing it without affecting the well-being of this planet.

Lets rename the ETS to - Environmental Trading Scheme - because that's what we're destroying.

And to the sceptics - You remind me of an interview with a 14 year old girl during the the Dairy Farmers strike when asked how the strike was affecting her family milk requirements.

Her response was: "It doesn't bother us because we get our milk from the shop"

Unfortunately it appears that some of our politicians and some of the public (Mainly the rich who have the most to lose) apply the same logic to the Global Warming problem.

Dale
# Dale
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:48 PM
Trevor, I must say your post is brave. A brave move in the 'Yes, Minister' sense. The petition you list has been discredited for quite some time now. Either you are behind the times, or are 'brave' enough to tout a discredited petition as a source of reliable information. In either case it is pause for concern.
As some background to the petition please read: http://www.desmogblog.com/30000-global-warming-petition-easily-debunked-propaganda

What other brave theories would you present; maternal impression or maybe even expanding earth???

If you are on the global cooling side make sure when things get cold enough and you get the flu you close your eyes when you sneeze or your eyes may pop out!

Perhaps a benefit from all this is that is has been quite some time since the public has been involved in a scientific debate. More of it!
ryan
# ryan
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:50 PM
Well done Mr Turnbull. I have to say it's nice to see someone with the courage of their convictions. I would not say I was a traditional liberal voter, however I respect the fact that you have an opinion on climate change and an ETS. I grew up in Europe where they have been discussing climate change for nearly 20 years, always saying that we really need to do something. I think that time is now and I needs people like you to stand up for the rest of us and our children s children and say, you know what you make a mess in the back yard then you have to clean it up
Trevor
# Trevor
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:51 PM
Nick, you just stay an ex Liberal buddy. The Liberal Party doesn't need voters like you that swallow any amount garbage that is thrown at them without actually thinking about the consequences of the policy that follows.
If you do actually look at the science that is available you would find that the hottest period in human history was during the Viking period.
Where was CO2 back then? What was the industry that was causing "global warming?" Do you still think that an ETS is a good thing when you take facts like this into consideration?
If you do, vote Labor or even the Greens, They are as bad as each other.
Michael Williams
# Michael Williams
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:51 PM
You just don't get it do you Turnbull. We don't want a lite version of Rudd we want a real Liberal leader who is going to challenge his policies. Keep this up and you'll never be PM, you're damaging the label.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:52 PM
Welcome to one of the natural consequences of the (early) internet age - policy debate through (mostly) hastily cobbled together diatribe.

Just like portions of the Senate Hansard from last week.


john
# john
Monday, December 07, 2009 5:52 PM
Carolyn
Monday, December 07, 2009 4:53 PM
"It's disappointing that so many who have posted here would rather protect their fat wallets than acknowledge we will all have to pay more to protect this earth"

You couldn't have said it better Caroline.
It is MALCOLM you numbskull who is all about protecting the wallet of Goldman Sachs.
Get with it girl.
Les
# Les
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:00 PM
I am glad to finally see some spirited voices discussing an issue within a party. This will split the party, probably for a good year or two, but hopefully the end result is a stronger party with a real stance on ETS. I don't know if Rudd's plans will do the job - but I had hoped we could go to Copenhagen as a leaders in this field - not to become followers as usual. I think one of the problems in politics is that people like Bob Brown would hate to see Kevin Rudd as a leader in climate change.

Waiting to 'see what everyone else does' is a dud argument since they are 'waiting to see what everyone else does' - we had a chance to be world leaders and blew it. Not only that - nothing is ever set in concrete - this legislation could have be tweaked down the track where necessary.

BTW Mal - losing the leadership was the best thing to happen to you. Let Abbott take the face full of egg at the next election - let Joe have a run, then do a Howard and come from the back and lead the libs back to victory. Look hat Howards history and learn.
Barry
# Barry
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:01 PM
For something like 20 years I have developed a deep abhorrence of Kennett/ Howard type liberalism. I can't believe I am now logging on to a Liberal party website to read and feel respect for Liberal member with reasonable views regarding an issue. There is hope for the Australian parlliament yet. Hang in there Mr Turnbull .and may many of your party follow your lead... some good governance may result and there will be some hope for the next generation... Ms Mirabella and Mr Abbott's kids included, despite their parents having warped out of date opportunistic views of the world.
wally
# wally
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:01 PM
Why wont rudd debate abbott turnbull . rudd sais abbott has no climate policy so he wont debate, well then he should wipe the floor with abbott, would that be that be right. You and rudd are as bad as each other. has he promised you a position as well. By the way what happened to the hole in the ozone we dont hear much about that then there was the green house affect then global warming but he we stopped calling that because the science was not conclusive so now we call it climate change.
Yambaman
# Yambaman
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:02 PM
Malcolm, solidarity is very important in party politics, the best thing you can do for the Liberal Party is RESIGN now! The ETS was a rubbish solution to a perceived problem that many scientists do not consider a problem at all. There is very little/no real evidence that man made pollution is contributing to climate change. After all, scientists still can't even forecast the weather accurately, what chance do you really think they have in forecasting that the climate is changing and why? Your so-called policy stank, and your words that Abbott doesn't even have a policy yet are very hollow, of course he hasn't a complete policy yet, he's just got elected on the basis that your policy was clearly rubbish. Your petulant display is reprehensible, get out of politics now or go join the Labor party if you've suddenly become a true believer! And please, show some dignity when you depart.
Dazza
# Dazza
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:02 PM
Grow up Malcolm....and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
len tsln
# len tsln
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:06 PM
On July 29, 2009, a distinguished team of researchers from the
> Massachusetts
> Institute of Technology and Harvard released what co-chair Dr. John Deutch
> calls "the most comprehensive, interdisciplinary study ever conducted on
> the
> future of nuclear energy." That report maintains that "The nuclear option
> should be retained precisely because it is an important carbon-free source
> of power."
>
> It is Mr Rudd's claim that is discredited; China alone has 20 nuclear power
> stations under construction and maybe another 100 planned while India has 6
> under construction and more planned, the USA is considering 30 more plants
> and nuclear provides 30% of the EU's electricity.
>
> Meanwhile he denies Australia the advantages, including being carbon-free,
> of nuclear energy while gleefully pocketing the tax generated by exporting
> uranium to fuel nuclear plants all over the world and demanding Australians
> cut back on carbon emission! You should be attacking Rudd and accepting the overwhelming vote of your party on the ETS policy. Shame!!
Mario
# Mario
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:06 PM
"Humble backbencher"?? Just stick to the "backbencher" part, please! As you know, one had tried to assist you with quality and relevant information. That the assistance eventually ceased was precisely when one realised that the element of "humbleness" had been a mere veneer covering up a conceited egotist. Still, one still finds it worth trying to assist what one believes to be a worthy cause, i.e. that the people's views and interests are represented by those who the people have elected to do exactly that, not to promote their self-interests to the detriment of the people who ahev elected them. .
Oziebill
# Oziebill
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:11 PM
# wally
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:01 PM


Indeed you are a wally!
Eddie
# Eddie
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:12 PM
Good on you Malcolm. You are right on the money on Climate change. If you were still leader at the next election I would have probably voted for you and the Liberals. I won't vote for Tony Abbott however. Good luck :)
R. Valenci
# R. Valenci
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:14 PM
@Michael Williams

The former government proposed it’s own ETS (or some type of carbon trading). On this matter, Kelvin Rudd is just a follower..
SFH
# SFH
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:14 PM
As an economist working in the energy industry I have spent hours trying to explain marginal abatement cost curves, least cost abatement, the advantage of trading over a flat carbon tax, the importance of an internationally compatible system, the need to capture/store as well as reduce emissions, the need to compensate industry (and associated issues of sovereign risk) why a transition period is required and the ability of a ETS to be steered and modified over time etc etc etc to people from all along the political and climate change spectrum and whom I would otherwise consider to be amongst the more intelligent and educated of our citizens.....

.......and while they frequently, finally 'get it' (usually just as I am turning blue in the face), far too often they don't and that is when I can't help but wonder what hope we have... when the mechanics and impacts of an emissions trading system is so far beyond the comprehension of the majority of Australians.

Perhaps Malcolm - you could tackle the real challenge, which to my mind, is to educate the voters on what an ETS is and how it works. Once the average citizen develops a real understanding, they will be far less susceptible to the scare tactics of the likes of Tony Abbott.
Drew
# Drew
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:18 PM
Sour grapes from one of Rudd's elves. It doesn't matter what party you say you're on Malcolm, you are Rudd's boy.
ben
# ben
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:18 PM
Dear Mary Blackmore,

Thanks for replying, I know it was a few hours ago but I thought I'd respond.

I've read about the CRU scandal, naturally it should be fully and critically investigated. The personal emails of a couple of scientists, however, doesn't disprove decades of accumulated scientific research from thousands of sources.

I appreciate the politeness of your rebuttal, but I find it hard to take your patronising request to "start questioning the government-controlled media's view of the world" seriously. I've been to enough dubious conspiracy websites to know that convincing yourself that the media and government are against you is the perfect way to justify a belief in the face of facts. But without evidence and motives of such a tremendous cover-up, such claims are meaningless. There is no logical reason why every government and scientist in the world would fabricate a catastrophe like this and enter into costly and unpopular measures to prevent it. Unless they were dedicated to form a totalitarian socialist one world government, or maybe were out to contaminate our vital bodily fluids. After warning me of the biased propaganda of the diabolical government-controlled media, you go on to link to the BBC, the biggest public media organisation in the world.

Also, how are my three assertions "patently wrong"? Are you saying that contrary to everything they've officially expressed and published the majority of climatologists, scientific organisations and peer reviewed papers take the abbottian view that anthropomorphic climate change is absolute crap?

As much as I wish that climate change was not a threat, the skeptical arguments I've read seem to often end up with the same of handful of fallacious chestnuts: the climate has changed naturally so it's impossible for us to influence it, Prince Charles travels by plane, it was cold last Thursday in Aubrey-Wadonga, Carbon is natural, etc.

The scientists agree, the majority of people agree, and until last Tuesday, even the politicians were close to agreeing. Can't we just put aside the political bickering and try fix this in the best possible way, if not for our own sake then for our grandchildren?

Ed
# Ed
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:19 PM
Yambalan here's a ticket to the 1950s.

But seriously good on you Malcolm, unlike Abott, you have views and stick to them. It is unusual for me to support a Liberal but you are easily the best option they have had for a long time (in many ways you are even better than Howard). As you have said don't change your opinion because of your party, do what you believe and believe what you believe.
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:19 PM
The lack of intellectual rigour of a great many of the posters here is truely amazing. Yet they are able to vote. No wonder this country is phucked. Just look at the quality of the so called leadership. Pathetic and churlish.

It's irrerelevant which party governs, they both DO NOT AND WILL NOT listen to we the people and do as we would like them to do.

So much for their representing US. They don't, never have and never will. Self serving egotists eberyone of them.
george rock
# george rock
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:20 PM
if a record hot day in adelaide is proof of global warming (as stated by your hero rudd) does that mean record early snow in houston is proof of global cooling? your only concern is your investments in carbon trading. you malcolm are the bullshit.
nataie west
# nataie west
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:23 PM
my name is natalie, i am 17. malcolm you are soo right. the bullshit that tony abbott is on about is complete lies. if you can honestly look around and say climate change isnt happening i suggest you open ur eyes.

there is no way someone could say that climate change is not happening. yes, clmate change is natural but the rate at which we are burning coal and polluting is making climate change react faster with more damaging results.

i wish i could stand infront of that meeting of leaders and tell them what i see. im 17!!!!! if i can see what we are doing to this world than obviously it is happening!!!!!!!!!!

there is NO way you can deny it. CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

i mean if severn suski, who was 12 at the time, in 1992 could see the climate changing and she had the guts to say something than this is what i believe and what i know for fact.

so wake up tony abbott!!! CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JudyS
# JudyS
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:24 PM
Tony Abbott says: "I only want to argue with Rudd on climate change". Not quite right. Tony Abbott should be honest and say: "I ONLY WANT TO ARGUE".
And, Tony Abbott, you want to argue with KR only because you want Kevin Rudd to give you the free publicity of sharing a platform. Tony, I'm sure you know that KR isn't that silly - he didn't come down in the last shower. So you are just game-playing as always - hoping to get some credit from KR's sensible and rational refusal to play along with your silly game.
Tony Abbott, it seems that you are little other than a pugnacious pugilist, so it is in your nature to be AGAINST everything and to want nothing more than a FIGHT. Ever thought of working in the interests of Australia?
Please come on out and tell us all, with reasoned arguments, what you are FOR. Not just on matters like Work Choices (for), abortion (against), caring unions between non-heterosexual couples (against), female priesthood (against) ,so-called 'celibate' priesthood (for?), continuing coverups of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church (silence from you), God (for - despite no scientific proof; ha, ha, don't need it unlike climate change and pollution), evolution (silence), creationism (silence), ...
Let's cut to the chase.
What are YOUR beliefs on 'climate change' and (especially and more importantly as far as I'm concerned) pollution caused by humans, and what is YOUR preferred policy?
Please tell us right now, this minute.
Otherwise please don't pretend for one second to be a straight talker.
Dene
# Dene
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:24 PM
Remember YK2 and the disaster we were led to believe that was going to be.
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:24 PM
Malcom, mate what hoot.

I live in Wentworth and voted for Peter King. Boy was I miffed when he was rolled at pre-selection.

All is forgiven Malcom. your principled stand in the face of the back stabbing turds in the Liberal party, (not to mention some of the fuck wits trolling on this blog), well son, you have my vote at the election.

Don't be put off by dipsticks like Cranky Frankie or Nobody@ Home. Their just losers with their heads stuck in the sand.

Brett
# Brett
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:25 PM
Malcolm,

You have single-handedly brought the Liberal Party to its current parlous state. Your blind acceptance of AGW and Rudd's mad dangerous ETS was disgraceful.

The science behind AGW is fraudulent and it will be exposed as such within the year.

You have been a woeful disappointment to the Party and I am just so glad and relieved that Abbott had the stones to step in and take on the position of opposition leader that you were so clearly incapable of.

The results in the recent by-elections are a vindication of the Libs' decision to get rid of you. It is time now for you to resign from the party and join the Greens, where you will so obviously be at home.

Éamon de Valera
# Éamon de Valera
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:28 PM
Mr Turnbull, have you or your family any pecunary interests/investments in any company or bank that will seek to profit from the trading of `carbon` ? have you dicussed the ETS with any of your brothers at goldman sachs? do you support a parliamentary inquiry into the the `science` of AGW? Have you succombed to the psychotic rages that leave your memory blacked out and threads of carpet lodged between your teeth? Your self loathing is understandable as you are a serial loser of gargantuan proportions, always failing to grasp the glittering prize,so precious, and yet forever out of reach. Knowing this gnaws at you constantly and It`s all getting to much to handle, isn`t it malcom? your infamy is assured as is the indelible place in Australias history as the loathsome creature that conived with Mr Rudd to sell Australia out.
GZG
# GZG
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:31 PM
I started to count how many people people here have suggested or called for your resignation in the light of you having your own special policy. I lost track at around 99 or 10.

Add me to the list.

Resign, and join the ALP. You KNOW you want to do it.
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:32 PM
There on to you Turnbull. Money talks and bullshit wins elections. It's a shame you didn't kick and scream when it came to health and education. What won't you do for money ????? I can't remember you having a tantrum and backstabbing everyone around you over.........well..anything ! Shame on you for trying to brain wash us with this bullshit. Your extreme tax scam. Of course there is an agenda and it's got absoulutely noting to do with saving the planet.
Your passionate about two things turnbull. Dollars and cents. You obviously have no regard or respect for anyone other than yourself. You are a disgrace.
How many Australians have to lose there jobs to top up your kitty ??????
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:34 PM
Hey Lou

"Don't be put off by dipsticks like Cranky Frankie or Nobody@ Home. Their just losers with their heads stuck in the sand."

You say this based on what? A couple of comments on a pathetic post by MT.

Maybe it is you who has his head stuck in the sand or maybe up MT arse. ;-)
Adam
# Adam
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:35 PM
It's time to do defect, Malcolm. I'm sure Labor will welcome you with open arms.
Dave Leslie
# Dave Leslie
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:35 PM
Malcolm, what you and your mate Kevie have both failed to do is tell us just how the ETS would work.
How much would carbon be reduced by this scheme?
How much would global temperatures be reduced by this scheme?
How is the economic impact on Australia going to make any difference to the climate?
Mark
# Mark
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:36 PM
Turnbull there is every chance history will record you as the worst ever leader of the Liberal party (and that takes some doing), and now you are out to be the most destructive. Get a grip... you have your pathetic little global warming belief, suck it up and understand that it is unraveling quickly, and Abbott is all over it. You are clearly not stupid, I can only surmise yopur carbon trading banking mates have got you completely in their hold. I really did admire your business acumen, now I see you as a nasty little Napoleon who just can't take losing.
Steve Coleman
# Steve Coleman
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:38 PM
If Australians are to pay billions of dollars via the ETS its only fair that we understand the implications and if there will in fact be a real return on the price we pay. Governments are very good at taking our hard earned money and wasting it. I had great hopes for you Malcolm ( I still do ) however you need to work with both your party team AND the people of Australia. Your tough talking, my way or the highway, style of leadership is an old fashioned style of leadership. Leadership today is about communication, sharing a vision, inspiring people and working as a team. Old style leadership is about pushing people and telling them whats best or what to do. We don't want to be told what to do. We want to be listened to and communicated with. They say its a trap to prepare to flight tomorrows wars the way the last wars were fought. I think you need to be open to shifting your mindset about what kind of leadership style will be needed for the future. I'm a long term Liberal voter and I'm a still hopeful supporter of yours BUT I will put Australia first and the Liberal Party second before my support of you. You will need to earn my vote, not via tough talk but via respect, and show me you are capable of real leadership with a shared vision and a supportive team. All the very best.
Mark Stevens
# Mark Stevens
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:40 PM
Hey Judy, how will Mr Abbott be able to answer your well thought out questions if as you suggest Mr Rudd denies Mr Abbott a platform? what better way for our shiny smirking PM to crush the sceptics argument and triumph in debate? As if.. btw do you know the opposite of sceptical is gullible?
reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:41 PM
Well said Malcolm!

If only Tony Abbott would make up his %$@# mind!!

reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:42 PM
why are people so unkind...?
Daniel
# Daniel
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:43 PM
Malcolm,

I'm 35 years old and have never voted Liberal. I just wish you were still the Leader, as the comments and moral stance above are something I look for at the polls. I probably would have been swayed your way.

I'm not looking for sauce bottles, fence sitting, swapping electorates for safe seats etc. I'm looking for someone who's not afraid to stand up and call bullshit what it is.

Maybe you should move up here to Qld and run for State politics. That'd be a nice change.

Good luck on the benches and I hope you stick around for awhile to come.

Cheers.
Aileenimou
# Aileenimou
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:43 PM
Malcome you are a disgrace to the party and have been for a while now. Time for you to go maybe Kevin can find you a job. Tony is a far better leader than you ever were. I mean just look at your utegate e mail scandal.
reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:44 PM
I wonder if big Joe will cross the floor too..?

I mean, it would require a bit of physical effort...

But then he did do the Kokoda thing...
James in Clontarf Qld
# James in Clontarf Qld
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:45 PM
Scanned through the posts, some really well thought out points from people supporting the scientific AGW position.
Notice how the naysayer posts think conspiracies, commie plot, your banking mates etc. Some of them really are being quite vicious in their rantings.

Go Malcom
reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:45 PM
Forget about Utegate Malcolm...

We have!

Now it's on for young and old!

Why doesn't Kevin agree to a debate with Tony?

It's so unkind.

Pete Bishop
# Pete Bishop
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:46 PM
Mr. Turnbull, as a lifelong Liberal voter, I am ashamed to be associated with you and your destructive and damaging comments. You lost your position because you were wrong, accept that and move on. Don't behave like a spoilt child who doesn't get what he wants.

How about representing those who might vote for you? I already pay 6 figures in tax, I don't want to pay more - and for what? Absolutely nothing.

Do the right thing and resign, or better still go and join the Labour party, it's where you belong. Traitor.
Douglas
# Douglas
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:47 PM
Malcom,

Hang in there, the wheels will turn.

In the meantime, could you push the Federal Government about why they are not fulfilling their promise about the wind tower project in Mildura? The wind tower uses very conventional and mature technology to produce a lot of power using solar energy and conventional turbines turned by a very large solar chimney.

The Federal and Vic Government promised 250 million for the project - which was on schedule. But the Labor Governments have said that they'll only pay any money at all, when the project is finished. They need the money now.

The company running the project, also leads the world in solar cells. It'll probably be bought by a foreign company, and become a huge financial bonanza. Something once again lost from Australia, in this case due to the Labor Governments failing to fulfill their promises about energy.

Also the Vic State Government has cancelled the project to turn our Brown Coal into distillate, for diesel engines. We import diesel fuel into Australia. We need it for road transport, and some rail. And for farm machinery too. It was profitable to convert the Brown Coal into distillate during the Kennet Liberal Government, whose policy was to fund the project. But Labor stopped it. It was profitable at 50 cents a litre - the price is more than that now for diesel fuel. And with gas electricity, why not use the brown coal? Heck we could export the fuel if we insist on using foreign distillate.
Stephen Drew
# Stephen Drew
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:47 PM
With all the best of intentions has Malcolm pushed the ETS agenda, but now we are told (SMH 7/12/09) that the British Climate Institute, whose data the UN have relied on to illuminate the effects of climate change, has been shown to be totally unreliable, and that it will be two years in the sorting out.
I am no climate change skeptic, but we are pushing an ETS for political purposes not environmental.
Now we see the NASA Goodings Institute for Climate Research has released its study using satellite imagery from the past 20 years and with data for 120 years. Yes, there is climate change, but guess what, its in the Northern Hemisphere. The Southern Hemisphere is experiencing cooling!
Now we need to take a cold shower and have the southern hemisphere exempted thank you.
reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:47 PM
I say that Tony Abbott will self-destruct before the next election.

It will be pure comedy to watch it happen...!
Big Gav
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:48 PM
Great post Malcolm - its good to see some honesty from a politician.

Ignore all the fools in the comments who are criticising your supposed party disloyalty - everyone should be free to say what they please, and the Abbott/Minchin faction are in no position to criticise after the way they openly flaunted "party unity" and decided they'd rather destroy the party than support the ETS they had previously agreed to.
Gary Duffy
# Gary Duffy
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:48 PM
Malcolm,‎

I have a huge respect for you and this will never change, you are gutsy, But Climate ‎change is a thorny issue. First people who have businesses and who are doing all the right ‎things do not understand how they are causing Climate change and why they are blamed ‎for it. It is like saying you are guilty of killing your kids and there hasn’t been a trial.‎
Most businesses I know, do every thing possible to recycle, use as little power as is ‎needed, use unleaded fuel, have smoke reduction on vents and use biodegradable ‎products. Every day business owners and farmers endeavour to do something better to ‎protect the environment and to be called murders of their children and be fined for it is ‎wrong - convicted before trial. ‎

When we look at simple things, like the overwhelming number of street lights being ‎installed by Governments for the sake of “it looks good” and the mistakes like building a ‎‎$10M bridge and pulling it down after 8 months. Building desalination plants which are ‎inefficient and out of date before they are commissioned. I have seen working ‎desalination plants which use 80% less power than the ones being built in Australia. ‎Going back year after year putting 20mm of bitumen on roads, when if they put 100 mm ‎on first time, they wouldn’t have to revisit that road for 20 years, the list goes on and on.‎

If governments did things as good as private industry there would be 50% less emissions ‎being produced, the cost to do this is zero. Look at what Coke have done, they have ‎announced they will change all fridge units to HFC free by 2012, Zero cost to taxpayers.‎
Look at www.ecovativedesign.com , they have made a packaging product which ‎eliminates polystyrene, a major source of pollution and emissions Co2. Zero cost to ‎taxpayers. Have it where all tyres must be made out of recycled black carbon from tyres, ‎an 80% reduction in this industry www.tyremil.com.au cost to taxpayers Zero.‎
Get the Americans to give up their guns. Just in the firing of guns in firing ranges ‎produces over 500,000 ton of Co2. It also produces 4,500 ton of lead pollution ‎www.ewg.org/files/leadpoll.pdf which is getting into the water supply of the world. ‎Americans firing guns for fun, is the biggest single polluter in the world. It used to be ‎cars, but now it is Americans and their guns. Heaven knows how much lead is getting ‎into our water from the wars and how much Co2 is being produced.‎

We are all still paying for the Iraq war, when they set all the oil wells on fire, it was said ‎at the time it would take the environment 50 years to get rid of that pollution. We still ‎have to count this single factor in the equation BUT we should not have to be taxed for it.‎

Like I said Malcolm, I would have a coffee with you any day; I have a heap of respect for ‎you, but don’t convict us of murdering our children without all the evidence and a proper ‎trial. We are not murderers of our kids or of the environment, in fact Australians do just about everything possible to maintain clean air and clean clear water. ‎
Gary Duffy

reb of the Gutter Trash blog on Politics
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:49 PM
"I already pay 6 figures in tax"

Well you earn too much bloody money then!

Either that or you've got a crap accountant...
Colin Grigg
# Colin Grigg
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 PM
Hey, Malcolm! Where's the facts mate??? Truth is there's none! Just the ideology of the Global Warming religion! There's no fact except this... all the emails that have come to light proving what we all knew from the start, that this is the biggest con that has ever been foisted upon us by the unscrupulous manipulation of your so-called scientists who all have something to gain out of this ruse! Tell me, was it predicted in the stars? Probably!!!! Where else did it come from? Hey, what's Santa bringing you for Christmas? To believe what you believe, you have to believe in the Stars and Santa Claus.
Colonel Neville
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 PM
Malcolm Turnbull:
“I remember once years ago when I was in New York when I was a partner of GOLDMAN SACHS, I was talking to John Corzine, who was then the chairman, and John is now the governor of New Jersey... "

My, my...a merchant banker never falls far from the Climategate fraud gang Turnbull ignores. The Global Warming Climategate crime of the century, an uber grab for MONEY, POWER and CONTROL gravy train. The disgusting lying plot thickens.

Look up Goldman Sachs, Ken Lay, Enron, Kleiner Perkins GIM partner and Chicago Carbon Exchange mega beneficiary Al Gore etc, and how they gee wizz, came up with the tax embezzling envirofascist corporatism bonanza of golly, carbon trading cap n' trade et al..:No really.

The venal wilfully ignorant arrogant super rich phony Malcontent Turncoatbull:
“...He's obviously a very wealthy guy, but like a lot of people I mean, John and I basically have he's a Democrat, so he's probably left of me politically, but we have similar values in the sense that we believe that if you've done well, you should be prepared to give back. Now John and I are both giving back in terms of public service.”

Rich eh? Ain't theyall. Give back? Er, then how come you want MORE tax then? Oh, you're giving back more DEBT. Got it. Fake conservative nuance, actual leftard socialism. Check. Colonel Robert Neville blogspot com.

zombietime com climateaudit org eco imperialism com climatedepot com wattsupwiththat com greenhellblog com nipccreport org greenspirit com junkscience com Andrew Bolt blog Herald Sun michellemalkin com

Tim Blair blog Daily Telegraph Lord Monckton James Delingpole blog zombietime com PJTV com michellemalkin com dissectleft blogspot com lookingingattheleft com biggovernment com ANY P.J O'Rourke steynonline com Liberty & Tyranny Mark Levin The Capitalist Manifesto Andrew Bernstein Richard Lindzen Steve McIntyre


Darryl Mason
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:51 PM
I don't agree with Malcolm Turnbull when it comes to a carbon tax, but I'm astounded and very pleased that he has allowed so many harsh and sometimes downright vicious comments to be published here, beneath his stories and opinions.

Meanwhile, the Herald Sun's Andrew Bolt, a relentless critic of Turnbull, has now shut down all comments on his stories and opinions.

An interesting turn of events when politicians allow more free speech and debate on their blogs than mainstream media blogs do!
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:53 PM

*sigh*
A couple of pathetic comments on a post by MT.
Kenneth Taylor.
# Kenneth Taylor.
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:57 PM
Is it really necessary for grown men to behave like spoilt kids? I have watch Labour destroy NSW over the past 12 years. Now I see the Liberals doing the NSW Labour shuffle. Get back to politics or get out. Take stock of your reasons for being there. If your reason has changed and you no longer want the gravy train to stop at your door, resign and let some one in that does. Wake up and act like an adult who wants the best for Australia. I know that
Sir Robert Menzies wouldn't put up with this crap.
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:01 PM
See you got it Lou. Cheers.
george fripley
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:06 PM
Well done for standing up for your convictions Malcolm. How about some light relief - this sounds like it may apply to

The Offiical Politicans Prayer

Our leader, somehow elected
Delusion be your game.
My god you're dumb
But there's work to be done
And blame to be deflected.
Delay today your policy decisions.
And let us forgive your empty promises,
As you should forgive those who make empty promises in response.
And lead us not into innovation,
But deliver us from progress.
For we have the bureaucrats,
With the power, and the will,
To infuriate
For ever and ever.
Amen.

Al
# Al
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:06 PM
Well said Malcolm. Thanks for being principled on this matter and trying to do something for the greater good of the Australian public. Tony Abbott's position has been farcial. I hope that you can continue to have a positive influence in parliament and try to moderate what has become an extreme right-wing and unelectable Liberal Party.
Windguy
# Windguy
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:08 PM
Malcolm is a disgrace??

Just wait, predicting the future, Abbot will have egg on his face by either creating a farcical joke of a policy that does nothing or split up the Liberal party again by creating a policy that does something.

The party is a joke. It was a great party for holding back the bleeding heart lefties, but being centre right is a far more popular choice than the far right climate denial camp out that's in the senate.

Abbot is now pandering to the senators who actually don't need a majority vote to get in. As you can see, Steve Fielding is running around with some crap 15 year graph ignoring even the people posting into his own website, and getting away with it because 0.3 percent of Victoria voted for him.

Malcolm's current blog is actually about Tony Abbot saving face before he becomes the laughing stock of Australia.

The ETS is the cheapest marketing tool to cut emissions. It is not a tax. The bad polluters who don't cut their emissions will have to buy credits from the companies that use their initiative and cut their emissions. So if an ETS comes in, you can profiteer from it.

120 billion, crap again! Money floats around in a pool, we are just changing the direction money flows. Companies can either pay for their emissions or cut their emissions and pay nothing. Passing the cost onto consumers won't work either because if you are a company that doesn't make cuts to your emissions because you believe you can pass them onto your customers. Then you will lose business to your competitor who does the opposite.

Unlike the theory the ETS can run up credit costs to amazing levels bankrupting businesses. The ETS as the market dictates will only run up to a maximum of where solar panels and Windmills run into a parity cost with coal to produce electricity. Spain is going to hit that parity next year!

The only thing I would rather is a 25% reduction in emissions mainly because I can see it being achieved with very little cost, more likely a saving. it can be done just by the usual appliance and vehicle turnover since V8 Holden Commodores have gone from 13.5 to 9 litres per 100 kilometres within 5 years. Lighting (because of Malcolm) has gone down from 80w to 18w average already saving 4 million tonnes of CO2 already, and Australia was first.

Malcolm showed the Liberal party can compete on green terms, but obviously that was destroyed in 1 week by those senators.

Funnily enough, as written in the Daily Telegraph, the business community wants the ETS in, instead of learning to cope with some gobbledygook Tony spews forth. They are Liberal voters, normally......

NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:08 PM
Here I was thinking that everything on this blog was light relief. ;-)
Mark Stevens
# Mark Stevens
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:08 PM
@darryl Mason
Thats as plausible as rudds hot day in nov supporting agw...
mg
# mg
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:13 PM
Malcolm,
Stay where you are, once people get over their Abbott crush they'll think differently. It is just a matter of time. I remember that big Rudd crush, and it is slowly diminishing, so will the 'new' star. At least people know who you are and what your position is. I think that is why J. howard stayed for so long, because people continued voting for someone they know, and what their stance is.
Good luck, I am looking forward to another libera shuffle and you coming back!
Barry Manuel
# Barry Manuel
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:13 PM
Mr Turnbull
Most of the time I vote Liberal. I want to say to you that you are a traitor to the Liberal party. You need to join the ALP. The ALP's ETS is a sham and the rhetoric on Climate Change is wrong for Australia. We are one percent of the problem! Many sensible scientists disagree with what the propaganda merchants say on climate change. Time to go Mr Turnbull. If you cannot support your leader you need to show real courage and resign!
TB
# TB
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:14 PM
Sadly Malcolm appears bitter and twisted about the changing of the guard ... disappointing. I accept your beliefs and principles in this matter but In your absence of leadership Tony Abbott stood up for the country. That's what politics is all about and you should back your team or leave.
sas
# sas
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:19 PM
Malcolm

When you lost the republic vote, you said Howard broke the nation's heart. Now you are biting the hand that feeds you. You boardroom bully go back. You have a big ego
Matthew Kemp
# Matthew Kemp
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:21 PM
Malcolm,

I simply cannot believe you would write what you have in this posting.

Face the facts champ, you lost the top job. I thought you would move to the back bench gracefully, with a sense of dignity. How wrong was I?

I have written in support of you when you became leader. I supported you all the way until the last month.

Have you noticed that the overwhelming majority of people whom support your 'principled' position on the ETS / AGW are all LABOR voters?

You are the LIBERAL member for Wentworth - it appears as though you have forgotten this.

I help out hopes that if you waited on the back bench, you would get another chance. But with this effort mate, I can promise you one thing - I would never vote for you EVER.

Have a nice life you clown.
Jen
# Jen
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:23 PM
Good on you Malcolm - You are speaking common sense and being honest. Abbott is just being a radical to try and mount a scare campaign. You have values and ethics and he doesn't. You will sleep well at night and have good karma. You have our support.
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:25 PM
ATTN : windguy

use your real name turnbull.

Nice try.

You lost you bitter and twisted little boy. Even graeme gilbert has just blasted you and your pathetic attempt at brainwashing us to fatten your pocket.
Oziebill
# Oziebill
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:29 PM
Lou wrote:

# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 6:53 PM

*sigh*
A couple of pathetic comments on a post by MT.

A couple!

Methinks your counting is on par with Abbott's accounting.

Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:31 PM
Hey Matthew,

Surely you mean W. Tuckey who is a Nobody is the clown.

Malcoms got guts, this might hurt him but he'll come back when Abbott implodes.
Abbott is a most effective attack dog. Once this jaunt with the leadership is done, he can go back to where his particular skills are most effective.
Gavin Maxwell
# Gavin Maxwell
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:33 PM
Malcolm as the member for Goldman Sachs could you please refrain from destabilizing the Liberal Party.
If you are so KEEN on doing Rudd's bidding why don't you join the Australian Labor Party,It seems that rich socialists are welcome there!
Joe Blogg
# Joe Blogg
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:38 PM
Who was the leader while all these non-policies were not being raised, researched, discussed and decided. Oh, you?
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:41 PM
@Oziebill

Yep, your right much more than couple.
Hey, whats wrong with Tones counting skills? He could work out that a shadow ministers salary of $130,000 plus plus is not enough to live on. Then winged to the world, or at least to Limited News where it was covered with due importance.
Derridian
# Derridian
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:42 PM
I've been reading the remarks on this blog for a while now and I can't help but be surprised at the vituperation from many who profess to be Liberal Party voters. Abuse, accusation and some quite abrasive meanderings that defy explanation! Is this the constituency of the Liberal Party?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've voted for the ALP all my life. I had thought that if the Rudd Government went seriously awry I'd consider a vote for Malcolm Turnbull, but the extremists from the Right are clearly in the ascendency if the remarks on this blog are indicative of sentiment within the party. It begs the question, just what constitutes the Liberal Party? Are these people truly representative?

I can only suggest that you, Mr Turnbull, along with other genuinely liberal thinking people secede from the Liberal Party and form a new party of those committed to liberalism. It seems that the Liberal Party has already divided and the chance of reconciliation is all but gone. As Slavoj Zizek says, the repoliticization of politics is necessary in democracies split by a dicotomy of two principal parties to ensure the restitution of genuine choice in a post-political world. Now is the time... seize the day and make a difference... I for one believe you have it in you to do so, and not just for the sake of self-aggrandizement, but in altering the political fabric of this country for the better!

Good luck!

Derridian.
Graham Bartholomew
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:44 PM
two things:
1. Climate change is not happening outside normal bounds (slope and slope zero are well within the error bars - null hypothesis holds)
2. Any change (currently decreasing) is not caused by human activity.
Addiitonally, the IPCC "scientists" have been faking the underlying science (you can't call what they've been doing as science) = climategate.
Given this behaving like Mark Latham's twin brother is a really good look, not.
If you are going to cross the floor when the next vote on the ETS comes up then it will look as sad is it is, AND why don't you stay on that side of politics where you can continue to make Kevin and Penny look good.
Paul Hogan
# Paul Hogan
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:45 PM
I hope Tony Abbot drives the Liberal Party into oblivion, where they can join the ranks of the DLP.
Most of their leaders have been disingenuous.
They have lead us into 3 immoral wars - Vietnam, afghanistan and Iraq, and have been sickenly subsurvient to America.
I would like to see the ALP become the conservative party, the greens become the progressive party and the liberals and nats just a bitter memory.
Jeez IMHOT
# Jeez IMHOT
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:45 PM
Well Said Malcolm. I applaud your right to speak out on this and other issues after the precedent set by ABBOTT and his followers. I look forward to hearing more from you and please don't be silenced by the party machine. You may find that you more power and influence to changing perceptions on the backbench than as leader. Go for it.
KennethD
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:46 PM
Hello Malcolm...

GoodOnYaMate!!

Politicians (of all persuasions) suffer from the delusion that the Australian public can't read through their political BS. They're wrong!

Blind Freddy can work out that people across the planet are concerned about climate change and want ACTION to happen NOW!

Even if the scientific evidence is completely wrong (highely unlikely) we, the Human race, need to give the planet (our only home) the benefit of the doubt here. Our children's children cannot afford us to be wrong here.

You've taken a stand here Malcolm, and that resonates well with the Australian public. GoodOnYaMate!
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:47 PM
Lou,

Get it right. I said "A couple of comments on a pathetic post by MT"

Dyslexia maybe?
Nick
# Nick
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:52 PM
@ Trevor, if you bothered to read my post properly you would of realised that I made hardly no mention of climate change in the post, though mentioned my opinion was an issue regarding resources and mass consumption, but then again this is probably normal behaviour for yourself, that is only reading 2 words in a whole paragraph, and not researching or reading information properly before opening your trap. Sadly you represent a bunch of ill informed people, that are trying ever so hard to cling to there old ways.....(Ditto). The sad reality for you lot is that this stuff is coming weather you like it or not, and all of this nay-saying via Abbott's lot is all about playing politics with this situation. I bet your bottom dollar, that they know that this is going to happen weather they're in power or labour...., but they'd rather appeal to a bunch of people that don't want to change there ways.......Trevor, the keyword here is resources.......no offence mate, but your fighting a losing battle.
Kate
# Kate
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:52 PM
So let me get this straight....

You want us to pay for your (oops, KRudds) scheme, so you can hand the $$ over to someone else, and we will still be no better off?

You want us, the real people, to hand over our hard earned dollars, so that you, the clueless of the ivory towers, can give it to other countries, based on a "scientific theory" that hasn't been proven 100% accurate (let me not start on climategate)

So, in [insert number here] years, when the carbon dioxide levels are still the same, due to things like THE SUN and farting cows, will any of you stand back and say "oops... we were wrong"?
D.B. Valentine
# D.B. Valentine
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:52 PM
Good on ya Malcolm. Howard kept the Libs in the dark about this for so long only a few (like you) in the party have woken up & realized its the 21st Century. We need real action on this. This is beyond party politics, its about the future of humanity.
CJ
# CJ
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:53 PM
Dear Mr Turnbull

I have to say that I have not been your most ardent supporter – especially during the whole Utegate debacle.

That being said, it takes a strong person to stand by their convictions and you have proven yourself to be that strong person.

My views on climate change have never wavered. I believe that we as a people need to take numerous steps to assist in saving this planet – I also believe that we have to stop with the whole “we’ll wait until someone else does something” mentality.

Sadly politics is a populist sport. What can we say to make sure we get into power next? How can we deride the other side? It appears that politicians forget that they are there to serve the interests of all the nation – not just those that have the heavy wallets.

More-so I feel that politicians are in many respects akin to parents. Responsible for the well being of all their children (be they 6 or 60), for their environment, and to make the hard decisions that are ultimately in the best interests – regardless of whether they want to make them or not. Sometimes the hard calls have to be made, regardless of how unpopular those decisions may be.

There are also times when all sides of politics need to come together for the greater good – this was one of those times, and it is a shame that the Liberal party chose to renege on their agreement with the ALP.

As a tax payer I am fully aware that an ETS is going to cost me more. But I choose to use all the appliances I have, I choose to use the power that I use – and if the reality of that is if it costs me more to use these things that I enjoy I will. If I cannot afford it then obviously my habits will change.

I am not so much concerned that the sceptics are wrong, but am fearful that the non-sceptics are right.

I would just like to ask your leader one thing – Is he, and in turn is his party, willing to gamble the future of his children, and his grandchildren, on the possibility that he is right? And what does he say to them if he is proven to be wrong?

But of course – it won’t matter then will it – because in 50 years time he won’t be in a position to worry about it.
Liz Burbrook
# Liz Burbrook
Monday, December 07, 2009 7:59 PM
Malcolm, please keep this up. A friend and I were discussing this and she said, "It would serve them damn well right if he resigned and join the Labor party." At the time I laughed, but its not a stupid idea. You and Kevin Rudd don't need politics. Neither of you would worry financially if you were not in parliament. Therefore, just possibly, those of us who actually think about these things, realise that you have no axe to gring except what is important for the country. Go Malcolm, whichever side you choose to play on, because let's face it; the libs are going nowhere now.
Kate O'Neill
# Kate O'Neill
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:01 PM
Good on you Malcolm.
You will go down in history as the one who was prepared to speak the truth on Climate Change no matter what the personal or political cost.
A Labor Supporter.
Gladstone
# Gladstone
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:03 PM
Now that the conservatives have really taken control and abandoned honour, integrity and public trust that historically was the culture of the Liberal Party my faith in the Party is evaporating.
I fear an awful Liberal defeat at the next election when the public puts aside their political leanings and think deeply of the critical climate implication for our lifestyle and planet if no sensible carbon reduction strategies are very quickly put into place.
This issue is simply too important for the traditional Liberal/Labor one-upmanship game playing enjoyed by those who are traditionally rusted onto a single political ideology.
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:04 PM
@Nobody
Oh, Sorry Nobody, missed your comment.
I was responding to Ozziebill. He challenged my count of the pathetic comments on a genuine heartfelt post by a conviction politician, namely MT.

Ozziebill was correct and I told him so. Cheers
stevenjonair
# stevenjonair
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:08 PM
The turn of phrase "throwing your toys" comes to mind - NOT in relation to Malcolm but rather the rightwing tantrums on this blog.

There is a clear difference between Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott and it can be summarised in one word - integrity.

Fortunately Tony's cronies only represent about only 25% of the electorate which according to my calculations spells disaster for them.

Have another go Malcolm - your party's credibility depends on it.
King O'Malley
# King O'Malley
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:10 PM
The Right Dishonourable Malcolm Turnbull - Member for Goldman Sachs

What a corrupt little bullshitting turd you are, Sir.

Sour grapes at not getting to bring in a global derivative trading instrument to further enrich your merchant banker masters.

There is no honour in you. Only an evil hidden agenda to tax the world and destroy Australia in the process.
Graeme C
# Graeme C
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:11 PM
Malcolm, for once the silent majority spoke out. Unfortunately you didn't listen. The phones ran hot, emails poured in, still you didn't listen and it seems nor do your labour mates. I am all for a Senate enquiry. Then maybe we will get actual facts and not hyperbole and insulting statements directed towards those that wish to question the so called "facts." The silent majority will speak again. I wonder if your listening or will continue to go your own arrogant way with KR!
NoBody
# NoBody
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:12 PM
Ok, enough of this rubbish. Time for a quiet ale.

Nite and regards to all. Hope none were offended as that was not the intent.
Having a bit of fun was. Cheers.
dominic
# dominic
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM
Malcolm you couldn't handle the loss in the republican debate and now you cant see that a lot of us are against the ets for a lot of reasons.I think if you just got out of politics the better for everyone,trying to push through something which doesn't make sense to most of us is never the way to go. Most people who believe in the ets don't even understand what it is about and winning over the dumb isn't a great achievement , the people I talk too realize that it is a new way for the rich to get richer and the rest of us to suffer for the few who will benefit.
wad can naaidoo
# wad can naaidoo
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:16 PM
Malcolm, I used to have respect for you but not anymore Today you have shown your true innermost feelings and we don't like them. Your actions are not of a statesman. If you belittle your party what would you do to your family and friends.Still a liberal voter but only if you are NOT around. Happy for you to pack your bags and take all your mates with you to another party.
Dmitri
# Dmitri
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:17 PM
Malcolm,

You lost against majority of your colleagues, not just against Tony Abbott. Being Rudd Little did not work well for you, the Liberal Party or Australia.

Enough bitching, time to join the party ranks and start working for us, majority of your Liberal Party voters.
Peter
# Peter
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:20 PM
Manmade global warming is one of the biggest hoaxes in the history of science and you, in spite of your conspicuous intellect, have fallen for it hook line and sinker. This country has narrowly averted an economic disaster thanks to Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce. The fact that you haven't taken pause to reflect on the disaster you nearly facilitated is an indightment on your uncontrollable ego.

As a former banker you would know all about the maddness of crowds. I suggest you go to Wikipedia and look up phrases like South Sea Island Bubble, Tulip Bubble, Y2K bug. And while your at it, look up the definition of Groupthink and its particular application to the Bay of Pigs invasion, and finally come to terms with your muddle headed thinking.

Quite simply, on this issue you were, and continue to be, WRONG!
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:20 PM
@stevenjonair
"The turn of phrase "throwing your toys" comes to mind - NOT in relation to Malcolm but rather the right wing tantrums on this blog."

You have nailed it Steve. This blog has been full of hissy fits from nobody in particular.
Ian
# Ian
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:24 PM
Malcolm give it a break. You were wrong... you were about to encumber us with a tx before the rest of the world laid its claims. Maybe you should seek preselection in the Labor Party for a SECOND TIME.

You have no convictions worth serving the liberals.

Please go!
Daniel Carr
# Daniel Carr
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:27 PM
Malcolm - never give up. As a voter who is faced with a choice between ALP waste and mismanagement and Liberal conservatism, it has been refreshing to see someone espouse both sensible and timely social and environmental views while remaining committed to economic reform. There are few torchbearers for this style of progressive politics, which despite growing in popularity is bereft of representation in parliament. It is a shame the Liberal party has shunned modernising in face of embracing hard-line conservatism once again. I wish you all the best and trust you will continue the fight for pragmatic and effective policy.
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:28 PM
Turnbull, this morning on your blog you claim to be a humble back bencher
That is Bullshit. Your homepage this morning also claimed you were the leader of the opposition. Crap. You couldn't lie straight in bed. You were quite successfull before you got involved with politics. It's a shame you will be thought of as a monumental failure who couldn't lead a pack of yes men to one single election. You only have yourself to blame. Get over yourself and move on. After reading the rubbish you spued on this site this morning I find you repulsive, offensive, immature and have proven yourself to the general public as a spoilt little brat who can dish it out but can't take it. Do you have shares in Kleenex tissues? have a cry turnbull. You answer to Abbott now.
Darren Lewin-Hill
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:29 PM
Malcolm, I'm tempted to admire you for a principled stand, but I can't quite get there knowing that the ETS before and after the deal b/n Ian Macfarlane and Penny Wong just doesn't match what science says is needed to address the problem. If every developed nation followed such a lead, we would continue on a steep emissions path that would doom our climate.

We're recovering well from the GFC and have such a wealth of renewables that we can afford to show international leadership on this one - however, we ultimately have no choice.

Good on you for acknowledging climate change, and for blogging with a bit of spirit - as good as you'll get from a lefty, I'm afraid.
Hendo
# Hendo
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:34 PM
Malcolm
If you are a true Liberal, you must stand behind your leader, after all, that is what you expected of all your front & back bench.
Doing what you are doing now is only keeping the confusion going. Why not focus on making the Liberal Party better and truly work as a team.
Keith Hill
# Keith Hill
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:36 PM
How sad to see someone who appeared to have so much promise descend into the same bitter, vindictive pit as two other failed leaders of this great party, John Hewson and Malcom Fraser. Perhaps now you have become the de facto spokesman for Rudd on the Enormous Taxation Scheme, you would deign to explain what neither Rudd, Wong, Combet, Tanner, Swan, Garrett and the rest of the Labor members have been unable or unwilling to do.
(1) How the scheme is supposed to work.
(2) How it would make one scrap of difference to the environment,
(3) As it was not suppposed to start till 2011 why (apart from alowing Rudd to massage his huge ego and grandstand in Copenhagen) it had to be passed last week..
(4) Why it could not have been deferred to a Senate Committee for proper evaluation and scrutiny in February next year, as yourparty and thousands of supporters wanted you to do.
(5) Why you chose to make it a leadership issue when nobody else in the party wanted to.

You had your chance and blew it ! If you cannot bear to oppose Kevin Rudd, at least either have the decency to resign or keep your peace and allow the party to become a credible real opposition with the guts to give the people of Australia a real choice.

Scott-Climate realist
# Scott-Climate realist
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:36 PM
Cross the floor and stay there you fool.
How can you and all these other supposedly intelligent "leaders" believe this climate change crap? Or do you see it clearer than most and know that it is just a massive money making hoax?
Surely if you have enough time to compose the dummy spitting prattle above and post it you would have the time to do some checking on the other side of the climate hoax argument.
This ETS goes way beyond simple politics- libs vs labor pale into comparison with the global scam you and your bedmate KRudd are trying to ram down our throats. I defy either of you to actually tell people what you are trying to do, what crippling shackles you want to hitch to our economy all to appease the new gods of this shiny new religion called "climate change".
Its all well to say coal is bad, that CO2 production will be the death of us all if it were true. HEY STUPID- what do you think plants live on? The ocean itself produces 2000 times more CO2 naturally per day than our whole economy! WE NEED CO2!! Climate change is a vastly different issue than looking after the environment in terms of pollution. Yes save the whales, yes stop polluting our rivers, yes recycle where possible - be smart about resources. But do not destroy our way of life in self flallegating punishment for not still living in caves.
You say you are educated, and an educated man will look at both sides of an argument to get his opinion on a subject. Spend 5 minutes on google and search " climate change truth".
You say you want to go down in history as a great person of note then blow the bloody whistle on this fiasco, start the ball rolling on common sense, bring some sanity to the issue. Have some balls.
Finally, stop helping labour win the next election. When KRUDD first got in I thought with the unions help he would wreck our economy in 6 years. It looks like you are helping him do it without the unions help in 2 years.
Albert Hopkins Shirley
# Albert Hopkins Shirley
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:38 PM
My family were leaders of the Barrons revolt which then became the MAGNA CARTA, The Great Charta the foundation of our freedoms.
They were Simon DE Mountford Earl of Leicester and Ferrers Earl of Derby.
Because of what they are doing then every person in Australia can now claim
At "LEAST" 1 one million Dollars Australian because of their loss of their FREEHOLD RIGHTS and FREEDOMS if not more because what VALUE DO YOU PUT ON YOUR FREEDOMS THAT MOST PEOPLE COME HERE FOR.
FROM all over the world they,you have come from including myself.

Well Well this what Malcolm has said is just continuing the scheme scam and CON worth Billions to them and billions in TAX to the Australian working people.
This SMOKE screen that Ruddy Rudd and Turn-BULL are saying is just a load of tripe and rubbish to what they TRULY WANT under the NEW WORLD ORDER.
The ETS stands for,European Trading Schem. SCAM.
NOT WHAT they say it is.
Think.
Why is this treaty being signed in Copenhargen instead of in New York at the UN.Copenhagen is part of the European Union. EU-SSR.
I ask Is it because it has nothing to do with global warming but the New World Government in HANDS with the European UNION as in Soviet UNION.

We all know what has happened to the country's that have joined the EU.
All laws pasted by the EU then forced upon the peoples of Britain, Commonwealth, and now the {? FREE world for how long}.
ALL treaty's take away some of your freehold rights and freedoms.
This one is to taking away the bloody lot. ALL OF OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
GET< and look at the rough draft of the treaty and then you will see NOTHING OF YOUR Democracy whether it is Australia's, Americas, New Zealand .
YOUR VOTE.
YOUR MP.
YOUR RIGHTS.
YOUR LAWS OF FREEDOMS.
It just TAKES THEM ALL AWAY.
OH and then think and ask this QUESTION
? WHY is it that TURBULLS bank is one of the banks that will be handling the BILLIONS IN CARBON TRADE NOTES.
I ASK< ? conflict of intrest at work.
I ASK,?What shares does BLOODY RUDD HAVE,? in the same bank I wonder?.
I ask? what hidden agendas are they TIED TO because they ARE 100% not in the peoples of Australia interests, BUT THE European unions nothing more and nothing less.
No matter what the RUDDS TURNBULLSand others say.
Including the Queen.
Albert Hopkins Shirley.
Fred
# Fred
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:46 PM
Dear Malcolm,

Well done for your comments today - I like your response and glad you are continuing the fight!
ps
# ps
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:46 PM
Good for Malcolm! Tony bush fire Abbott is a fool. We live in the driest inhabited continent on earth and the Liberal party is taking chances with the climate. What a pack of morons.
Capitalist
# Capitalist
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:47 PM
Mr Turnbull, by claiming that the ETS is some kind of insurance policy, you are evoking what the environmentalists call the precautionary principle.

This is a negation of the principle of the onus of proof; that is, that the person making the assertion must prove it.

As climategate demonstrates, two of the most most "reliable" sources of data to support AGW are now under a cloud.

East Anglia CRU has been trying all different methods to hide the data, and does not even have the original data - just the adjusted data.

Unfortunately we are dealing with quacks, some of whom were claiming previously that the early was cooling. Time to stop their funding.
Schwahelian Jungle Boy
# Schwahelian Jungle Boy
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:48 PM
Malcolm,
I am so happy you have lost your laboral leadership. At first I had faith in you but you did not challenge that dipshit Rudd. In fact, you went along with him. Tony is a far better candidate as he has already proven in the polls and more-so in the electorate. Go back to being a banker mate, and you know what that rhyms with don't you!!
Bert Barina
# Bert Barina
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:49 PM
If you ask ANY person who has been to the Arctic or Antarctica they will tell you that climate change is for real and a severe threat to our future.
Surely the "Deny Party" within the Coalition are in a minority.
And if there was only one vote in the sham voting last week that saw Tony Abbot elected as leader, who was the idiot that marked "NO" on their ballot paper.
Why did Julie Bishop's vote not be an informal vote as under electoral rules, any marking of a ballot paper other than in the vote boxes would be declared informal.
She by her own admission marked her ballot paper ?
Time to make the "Bastards Honest" once again mate.
DO NOT LET UP ON THIS PLEASE or we will see Labor in for 10 or 20 years from now,if we are all still on this planet.
A coalition voter no more while ever these idiots are running the asylum.
Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:52 PM
Judging by some of the positively mediaeval rants on this page against climate science, Tony Abbott must be receiving some fairly frightening messages of support.

A poisoned chalice for him perhaps?

In any event, Abbott's current tactic of appealing to naked self-interest (i.e. by claiming that Australians shouldn't be expected to do anything about carbon emissions - at least not anything that costs them any money) is likely to backfire - because, as Malcolm (and many others) argue, it is nothing but a con.

PrincessofIrony
# PrincessofIrony
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:55 PM
I'm loving all the Liberals here tearing Malcolm to shreds for daring to disagree with their newly anointed leader. Perhaps you should go away and look up the word "integrity" in the dictionary, and then decide whether the definition applies to Mr Abbott. Get back to us on that. The fact is, the ETS was originally John Howard's idea. And another fact is that Abbott, for all his criticism of the ETS, has absolutely no climate change policy of his own - apart from "ignore it and it'll go away", it seems. While many of us have doubts about ETS, we also know that something has to be done to tackle cliimate change. And we will not vote for any party that does not have a practical, cohesive plan to do so. Abbott needs to stop celebrating those one-horse victories in the recent by-elections (blue ribbon seats and Labor weren't even running - who did he think might win? The tooth fairy?) and let us know what his plan is for climate change. And here's a hint "It's not real" doesn't cut it.
Greg Harrah
# Greg Harrah
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:55 PM
@KeithHill

(1) How the scheme is supposed to work.
It's all on the www

(2) How it would make one scrap of difference to the environment,
Ditto

(3) As it was not suppposed to start till 2011 why (apart from alowing Rudd to massage his huge ego and grandstand in Copenhagen) it had to be passed last week..
The more countries that bring something to the table the bette...ahh never mind this wouldn't even part your hair.

(4) Why it could not have been deferred to a Senate Committee for proper evaluation and scrutiny in February next year, as yourparty and thousands of supporters wanted you to do.
It's been debated for over thirty years.... never mind, see (3)

(5) Why you chose to make it a leadership issue when nobody else in the party wanted to.
What are you smoking.





swinging voter
# swinging voter
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:57 PM
Malcolm, explain this to us,who will collect these trillions of $$$$ ? where will 'they' invest the money?. Who will 'police' and prosecute the fines if the countries don't payup? What are the penalties for non-compliance? What will the currency be for carbon credits? What are the chances of me getting some of the trillions of $$$$.?? Without some detailed answers how can us 'simpletons' be expected to understand what you and the other bankers have in mind to do with my taxes? Penny Wong has no idea on how to articulate this(have you listened to her in Parliament?Her dictionary of rhetoric is outdated and frankly boring boring.) We challenge you to spell it out for us 'doubters'- swinging voters and others.If you can't answer we can only believe you are Labour dressed up in Liberal suit.
Kim
# Kim
Monday, December 07, 2009 8:59 PM
Well said Malcolm! Concise and true.

As a 'small government' person, who believes climate change is a big risk that needs to be dealt with, I now feel politically disenfranchised. I certainly feel little common ground with the current federal party leadership, who seem to be on an idealogical crusade, based on an ideology that I and many other Liberal Party members strongly disagree with.

One thing to observe about those trying to railroad any action on climate change is that they always scaremonger about the costs of abatement. Sure, it will cost money, but my bet is a lot less than everyone thinks in the long run, as it will stimulate new technology.
Pensioneron
# Pensioneron
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:03 PM
As a lifetime liberal I dispair how the party has fared you had your chance to lead and failed it was you who said if you didn't get your way you would resign.
So if and when you cross the floor malcolm do us and yourself a favour and stay there.
Jillian
# Jillian
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:03 PM
Malcolm,
Message for Malcolm:
I strongly believe that now is the time to start a new party.

There is nothing to be gained from persevering with the current incarnation of the Liberal Party. I say that even as someone who has been an active member for 15 years. The party has become too conservative.

I will continue to support you as the Member for Wentworth in any capacity you may choose (Liberal, new party, independent etc), but I think a new party is the best option.
Lou Bedford
# Lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:04 PM
@swinging voter

To describe yourself as a swinging voter and a simpleton in the same post is .....well.....appropriate
Ken
# Ken
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:05 PM
In my 60 years, i have never congratulated A Liberal
But, Malcolm you really do have the courage of your convictions
good on ya mate
Jillian
# Jillian
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:05 PM
Apologies for the repetition in my last message. I was copying and pasting from somewhere else.
Stuart
# Stuart
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:06 PM
The ousting of such a rational leader on this issue for the "fingers in the ears" wing of the Liberal party is a tremendous shame for both the country and the party.

Certain choices of the Rudd Labor government have left me looking for a credible and sensible opposition, which we had a week ago and now don't.

Your integrity and conviction are admirable, and I can only hope it helps counter the anti-science denialist attack machine which is sadly growing in force.
chris
# chris
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:11 PM
malcom go and join the labour party we dont want you in or anywhere near the liberal party and the polls showed it get lost when you cross the floor stay there please, you said Mr Abbott does nt have a policy well nether did you you just copied rudd, all you want an ETS for is so that you can make your fat cat banker mates who got you to where you are rich with all the brokerage, you are a joke and an embarasment to the country go away you had your chance and stuffed it up.
Shane Morrissey
# Shane Morrissey
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:11 PM
Bravo, Malcolm Bravo (and I didn't vote for you) Spot on,you tell it like it is!
On Abbot: The mendacious and nefarious (attack dog) Abbot is now unleashed upon us. Abbot failed in his undertakings - twice to tap Howard on the shoulder, after promising Costello he would so, not a man of his word and he wants to aspire to PM! I think your chances of being opposition leader again after the election are very good! Keep up the fight.
lou Bedford
# lou Bedford
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:16 PM
@chris

Go directly to the sin bin and say hello to swinging voter.
Madz
# Madz
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:16 PM
Well Mal you did not show good leadership and now knocking your leader is also not a cool thing to do....Tony Abbott does acknowledge the climate is changing however, before this policy robs the nation of its wealth..put Australians on the streets and dole lines and also take us all back to the dark ages....We better disclose the truth of this policy on all fronts so the Australian people are aware, and prepared for what lies ahead..therefore just like abbott, I am not a skeptic but I thank God someone like him had the intestinal fortitude to want this policy to be scrutinized and opened up for the people of this nation to view, understand and assess...THAT'S LEADERSHIP !!! Why don't you go back to the private sector where you can earn more money and exert your influence on the minority...it is obvious that it became very urgent to adopt this policy and you wanted us to sign on the dotted line before we know the cost... WHY ? THAT IS SCARY !!! Not Good - Not Cool. So Bye -Bye Baby
Jettboy
# Jettboy
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:16 PM
Malcolm T,

Your third point in your blog is highly important. “...there is a major issue of integrity at stake here ... we have an Opposition which negotiated amendments ... then reached agreement on those amendments and then, a week later, reneged on the agreement.”

Imagine if the Liberal Party was a business. How would their customers treat the Liberals if they reneged on a business deal in this way?

We customers would sue them for breach of contract, and also for false advertising.

Is this what the Liberal Party plans to do once in government? Go back on deals which have already been made?

And this Abbott Rabble purports to represent the many small-to-medium business owners of Australia...

Bullshit.

Chris Thompson
# Chris Thompson
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:16 PM
The arguments that MT raises are irrefutable. The response of the Liberal party to the climate issue is, to say the least, disappointing.

Less disappointing (because the climate issue must be the number one priority) is a number of the comments here, which seem to imply that integrity is unimportant in the Liberal party. It seems to these people that winning the next election is more important than anything, and any measures should be taken to achieve this.

Well, I'm afraid the using any measure to win is a sure recipe for losing. History has shown us that politicians will conviction find support and win elections, and those who drift around searching for the "popular" position are soon recognized as frauds by the electorate.
John Broadley
# John Broadley
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:16 PM
Malcolm,
My wife and I are 71 years of age and have voted Liberal all our lives as have our parents before us. We were happy over the change of leadership last week as we believe that Tony Abbot more reflects the ideals, opinions and beliefs of Conservative voters in Australia. As far as climate change goes, the Australian public has been kept in the dark on the science behind Rudd's policy on the ETS, and opposing views on equally high profile scientists have been suppressed. The "Climategate"emails have also been suppressed by most of the media as well as the most recent news that James Hansen is now hoping that Copenhagen will be a failure. James Hansen as you are aware is regarded as the pioneer of Climate Change science for over 20 years and is now aggressively opposing the ETS approach. How can you as a mere politition go along with Rudd on this. Even worse, you are now turning on your own party just to vent your spleen. Malcolm, you are a disgrace, and showing the same spitefullness you displayed 10 years ago when you lost the Republican debate. Give up and go back into business. Maybe you can increase your wealth by trading in carbon permits through your old company.
Graeme
# Graeme
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:19 PM
Malcolm,

A "leader" is someone who has the ability to take his or her team with them on an issue. As the Opposition "Leader" you never demonstrated any leadership at all, as you were unable to unite the Liberals behind you. Your whinging diatribe about climate change shows you have no real idea about life and how to develop working relationships with people, which is very sad.

The Greens also voted against the ETS, or are you conveniently forgetting that fact? I don't have any problems with having a reasonable and considered policy on how we can reduce the impact of humans on planet earth, however you don't seem to realise (and Rudd also) that you need to explain the ETS to the public and get them on side as well. As I see it, it is no different to explaining to the public why we need to send our soldiers to war, etc. Malcolm, you don't belong in the Liberals, join the Greens and see how you go, I suspect not very far, as you are too arrogant to listen!!!!
Jason G
# Jason G
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:20 PM
You've shown actual conviction and courage on this Malcom and I wasn't previously impressed with you. Sadly the more you've come up in my esteem, the less the extremes in the LP liked you. It 's good to see someone who has some convictions in politics, not just those that call themselves conviction pollies (eg Howard, Abbott etc)
Stuart
# Stuart
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:24 PM
There seem to be an awful lot of people here pointing to "Climategate" to prove the science is a global left-wing conspiracy.

I wonder how many of those have actually investigated the issue themselves, or whether they're just repeating the same chinese-whispers nonsense that there is a controversy and if they keep talking about it, maybe someone will believe it.

The science is beyond question at this point and the CRU leaks do absolutely nothing to change that. There is actually enough out there for everyone to investigate themselves, but for those who don't - what is the more likely explanation for the experts across virtually all scientific disciplines believing in anthropogenic global warming? A global communist effort to infiltrate each and every university in the world, each and every scientific journal, each and every science academy and scientific organisation... or... the science is correct? Polls show that belief in AGW significantly increases with the level of scientific education - what should that tell you?

You've sadly fallen for a political attack machine which has nothing at all to do with the science of global warming.
Murph
# Murph
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:24 PM
While not usually a Liberal voter, I have nothing but admiration for your stand on this issue Malcolm, and your efforts to drag your party into the 21st century.

Please keep up the good fight - your planet needs you.
joni
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:25 PM
Well said Malcolm. Keep up the fight and we will be able to reduce C02E emissions to save the planet.
Steve
# Steve
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Thanks Mr. Turnbull,

It was a bit of a pity really that the one person who stood up and delivered the most empassioned plea for the ETS to go ahead was you. Labor could have done more to make the case for it in my opinion. I hope the ETS that you've put your heart into comes to fruiting one day. Thanks again.
Tamara S
# Tamara S
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:29 PM
I don't really want to comment about what has been said, either by Mr Turnbull or Mr Abbott, for that matter. I do however, wish to comment on the fact Mr Turnbull has made this comment.

No one expects all politicians to agree with each other. But they are supposed to support the party, and its democratically elected leader. They have to be seen, by the public, by their voters, by their potential voters, as a strong, unified team. Comments like those made today do not encourage anyone to vote for them.

A disjointed party can never win. Get it together, all Liberals, hold your heads high, band together and get this worked out before the next election, or you can have no hope of winning.
james
# james
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:39 PM
Labor had its Latham. Liberal now has its Abbott. Interesting!
George & Irene
# George & Irene
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:39 PM
Malcolm,
My wife and I are 71 years of age and have voted Liberal all our lives as have our parents before us. We were unhappy over the change of leadership last week as we believe that Tony Abbot doesn't reflects the ideals, opinions and beliefs of Conservative voters in Australia. As far as climate change goes, the Australian public has been well informed on the science behind Rudd's policy on the ETS, and opposing views on equally high profile scientists have been pushed by Limited News, a respected Murdoch publication. The "Climategate"emails have also been freely discussed & discounted by most of the media as well as the most recent news that James Hansen is now hoping that Copenhagen will be a success. James Hansen as you are aware is regarded as the pioneer of Climate Change science for over 20 years and is now aggressively supporting the ETS approach. It's great that you as a mere go along with Rudd on this. Even better, you are now turning on your own party just to help them see the light. Malcolm, you are a hero, and showing the same leadership you displayed 10 years ago when you set in train the inevitable Republican win. Don't give up and go back into business. Maybe I can increase my wealth by trading in carbon permits through the company. Good luck Malcom
Tommy
# Tommy
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:41 PM
Excellent post . . . wish more of your colleagues displayed the same degree of integrity on climate change . . . keep up the good work . . .
David
# David
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:42 PM
Here, here!
rod
# rod
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:43 PM
The world needs leaders. Abbot is a follower. Malcom you stick to your principles, our children need it.
Lou
# Lou
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:45 PM
I'm not a scientist and I don't know anything about the maths but I do know that the climate is ALWAYS changing.

It may be warming, it may be cooling (take your pick) but NATURE is the force in control and it never stands still.

This time round some say man is contributing to the change, depending who you listen to anything from 5% to 40% (again take your pick) by emitting greater amounts of CO2.

So logically if the above is true and we were to somehow be able to stop emitting ALL our CO2 contribution (in reality impossible), we would SLOW DOWN the change by 5% to 40%.

ie, instead of taking 20 years for the change to occur, it would take 21 years or 28 years, but the change Will happen NO matter what we do.

Nature is the driving force and the best we can do is learn to adapt to what it dishes out.

We can make things more comfortable for ourselves by looking after or environment in conjunction with nature, but we will never change the course nature wants to take.

Of course my 'logic' may be flawed so I'm happy to be corrected, just don't abuse me, please :)
Drew
# Drew
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:50 PM
I can not believe I thought that you were a man of decency. This blog is a disgrace and highlights an absolute lack of character on your behalf. Pardon the expression, but trying to put your foot on the throat of someone who has been 'democratically elected' to YOUR party, so they can not succeed, signifies that you are not a team player and are so unbelievably self-absorbed. Why don't you try and take a leaf out of Mr Nelsons book, hold up a banner and resign. Remember only 16% of Australia thought you were better than Rudd, now that is an undisputed figure unlike the climate models.
Lee Charles Walker
# Lee Charles Walker
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:54 PM
Malcolm,

The only good that can come of all this, is that the Australian people will find out once and for all how useless Tony Abbott is. He will surely go down as ten times worse than Brendan Fraser, more of a joke than Simon Crean.

I just hope none of your supporters are absent in the next leadership vote, so you can beat Joe Hockey and get the leadership back. The only problem is that you might have to wait until the end of Kevin Rudd's second term to get a shot at PM, because I don't think there's enough time before the next election for you to win back leadership AND undo all the damage done by Howard's refusal to step down, Fraser's blundering, and Abbott's inevitable screw-ups.

I hope you get another shot, Malcolm. Some people might think you're a Silvertail, but everyone in Australia likes a good comeback!
Kate
# Kate
Monday, December 07, 2009 9:57 PM
At last, after 12 months of wet leftism at the helm of the Liberal party, in Tony Abbot we have someone with colour and vitality to add to the job! After 40 years of solid Coalition support, I was never going to vote for you Mr Turnbull, or your lapdog Macfarlane, in whose electorate I reside, simply because of your stance on the ETS garbage. Now that the bill has been rightly thrown out of the Senate I will now reconsider, but not if you continue to snipe from the sidelines, like some sore loser!

Grow up Mr Turnbull, you've been done fair and square, if you don't like it, RESIGN!
Lee Charles Walker
# Lee Charles Walker
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:07 PM
Having now read about 100 of the ~670 comments to this entry, I can safely say there are some real nutjobs out there. Malcolm, seems like no matter what you do, there are some people out there who don't want to give you a shot just because you made some money in your life.

After the way the coalition has treated you, I am beginning to think the poster who encouraged you to start a new political party might be onto something. There doesn't seem to be much in the coalition worth saving. I'd gladly join a new party if you started one, and it seems like the time is right. The Liberals are in a shambles, the Nationals will be gone from everywhere except Queensland soon.

Malcolm, you should start a Republican party, and campaign on what you really believe in: an Australian republic. Now that is something a large proportion of Australia can really get behind.
Dann
# Dann
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:08 PM
mal accept that are not a born leader but a guy so full of himself that you cannot see the forest for the trees. If you cross the floor in favour of the vanity,egostistical PM and endorse the ETS (GST) you are then a destoyer of famlies Australia wide. Just shut the F*** up and be true liberal believer and follow your leader ,be a team player instead of agreeing with the PM scaremongering that the world is doomed if do not agree to this soul destoying tax. Be a MAN mal and earn respect from the public or like the PM you will be gone come next election and the Ego driven Pm a one term PM.
les Paton
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:08 PM
mr Turnbull Y dont u resign u havent the experience 2 be opposition leader this y u r where u r on the back bench where u should,ye remained until u were un til u had served more time in learning how 2 b a politician , However u did your best in a dificult situation i have not yet to met anyone who understand ETS that elmer Fuddd is trying 2 lumber Australia with DOWN WITH ANY RUDD IDEAS HE
Katie
# Katie
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:09 PM
Shite, after 12 months of solid leadership at the helm of the Liberal party, in Tony Abbot we have someone who only answers Pell to add to the job! After 40 years of solid Coalition support, I new you were the answer, Mr Turnbull,Because of your stance on the ETS know this your vote is safe. Now that the bill has been stupidly thrown out of the Senate I will now slash my wrists, maybe, but not if you continue to stand for strong principals from the sidelines, like some mighty Greek god!

Yes Mr Turnbull, you've been done fair and square, if you don't like it, get even!
Alan
# Alan
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:11 PM
Malcolm,
I think I agree with Greg - it is pretty obvious there is a major split between the liberals who have their heads screwed on the right way, and the conservatives who aren't living in the same Victoria - that has had once in 50 years bushfires three times inside 10 years - that I live in.

The reason an ETS must "cost" money, is that economics will *change our energy use*, and thus reduce our carbon emissions. Just paying more money isn't the complete answer.

Good luck with the new party, I'll be with anyone who is going to *do* something and not just mouth platitudes.

Oz in SE Asia
# Oz in SE Asia
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:12 PM
Go for it Malcolm - keep up the good work. Only you give us a choice between the Luddites and Ruddites on Climate Change.
Wilson
# Wilson
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:16 PM
Well done Malcom
Graeme Beresford
# Graeme Beresford
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:20 PM
Malcolm

One cannot lead without followers. Your followers deposed you and I believed you had better pride than to criticise your party in the media.

Yes it is hard to let go, but you are now a humble backbencher.
If you cannot support your party then You should consider leaving and write a book.

Graeme

Brian
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:21 PM
Malcolm,
You sate "First, let's get this straight. You cannot cut emissions without a cost. "
If you will allow me to change 'no cost' to 'minimum cost' then your statement is incorrect.
There is a proven way to reduce carbon emissions, water usage air pollution, deforestation, resource usage, and many other problems, spending just millions not billions.
To emphasize it has already been proven to work.
Rod Cleary
# Rod Cleary
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:22 PM
Malcolm,
Time to be graceful and accept your early retirement; as a lifetime Coalition supporter I had great hope for you, however, I think your expectation that you were destined to lead Australia has been pretty far fetched and fuelled by 'class arrogance'.
Waltzing around with an ex Frensham lovely with extremely good tenacious blue blooded pedigree will never win over middle Australia; with total respect to Lucy who I met in my teenage years (a lovely person may I add).
Your views (including the Republic) are too left of the middle for most Liberal coalition believers, so you have just expierenced the ultimate reality check.
Your projected arrogance is untimely in a time where a forethright but humble persona is the calling of Gen Y and iGen (13yo and younger). My young boys say that you remind them of Papa, my 85 year old father.
Malcolm, time to back down gracefully.
Lee Murray
# Lee Murray
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 PM
Good on you Malcolm!
I so admire your principled stand on the climate change issue! It's sad and scary that the (now ironically-named) Liberal Party is being run by a pack of troglodyte sceptics and denialists and, if its leader in Tony Abbott is suddenly a recent convert to the belief that human-caused climate change is real, it's only for despicable, slimy, cynical reasons of pragmatism and vote-winning. To think that you can have a serious impact on cutting carbon emissions without some sort of cost is fairyland stuff and might appeal to a lot of the self-interested and hip-pocket motivated Liberal Party constituents who are criticising you now, Malcolm, but it just aint possible! I wonder why people like Abbott, Minchin, Bishop et al (and their champions) didn't seem to have a problem with a 'big, bad tax' like the GST?... oh, of course, silly me!...that's 'cos it was a tax that distributed money from low-income earners to the rich!
Please, Malcolm...do us all a favour - take your like-minded parliamentary colleagues and form a REAL 'liberal' party and leave this lot of reactionaries to wither and die!!!
Liberal voter
# Liberal voter
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 PM
Malcolm

So you think licking Kevin Rudd's ass will solve the climate change problem...thank god you are gone! Now shut your mouth and go back minding your own business. Australian people now how to save themselves and the world.

Greg
# Greg
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:28 PM
Dear Malcolm,

You are a very intelligent and succssful man. You do not deserve a large proportion of the criticism posted by some commenters here. That said, I do strongly disagree with your position. It appears that I'm not the only one.

It is not unreasonable to take a skeptical view of AGW - debate certainly exists, and CO2 levels no longer seem directly correlated with global temperatures. But even if you accept the pro-AGW view of the science, what benefit is there for Australia to essentially "go it alone"? Australia emits 1.4% of global carbon emissions. No Australian ETS will be of any environmental benefit if China, India and/or the US aren't on board. An ETS will cost the Australian people though, and fetter our economy (for next to zero environmental gain, if the current predictions re: Copenhagen are correct).

I also disagree with you posting what can only be read as a spray at Tony Abbott. You must know that the ALP will seize upon this for the next election. By all means raise your concerns internally (I'm sure you have, many times), but don't provide the ALP with such obvious fodder.

I'm sure you've heard these arguments before. But that (IMHO) does not diminish their validly.
Bear
# Bear
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:31 PM
MT,

Time to get over it and move on. Stop disappointing us with your 'Lathamesque' behaviour. It's not a good look for anyone.
simon
# simon
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:34 PM
As a YOUNG LIBERAL VOTER with a Young Family we are worried about our future when it comes to the climate .. Please don't forget us Mr Malcolm i implore you to not let our voices be drowned out.
Jackie
# Jackie
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:37 PM
Go join the Labour party whingy, whiny Malcolm and grow up!! I'm a swinging voter but unlike you and the majority of stupid people I researched global warming and am glad that Tony has the balls, unlike you to find some backbone and take a stance for the truth!!
Maureen Jefferies
# Maureen Jefferies
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:45 PM
Well done on your rebuttal of Abbot's rhetoric. 'Keep the bastard honest'. Tony Abbot is an opportunist and a charlatan. Climate change is a serious issue and his vacillation is of major concern to the thinking public. He should be exposed at every opportunity. Don't be afraid of political conflict. I give him 6 months to a year before he self destructs!




Darryl
# Darryl
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:47 PM
You only make yourself look like a bad loser! Who has given you or K Rudd for that matter the answer for all things climate change. Any one in their right mind can see that the proposal by you & Labor (how's that sound MT) will not stop climate change. So we pay more for firms to omit the same amount of carbon to make the books look good, how ridiculous. Wake up Malcolm you lost me, why do you not yell louder about deforestation, less trees, less of the earths lungs. That's the main problem, we can never go back to reborn or replant tropical forrest. No medicine, no animals, and even more carbon.
Tony
# Tony
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:48 PM
The best bit about you Malcolm is you don't sound like a politician at all. I remember when I first saw you on Insight or Lateline about a year ago, I thought "wow, someone in politics who isn't full of s*** for a change". Fess up to smoking pot as a kid...honesty, great! Interrupt the interviewer and tell them straight up they've got no idea what they are talking about - great!

People don't become successful in your former line of work (Goldman Sachs etc) without being able to make the tough decisions that may be unpopular. The biggest problem in Australia is that we give a voice to people who's only interest is sitting on the gravy train, the kind of people that resent a successful person.

Stick to your guns, stand above reproach, and for god's sake rip those vultures in the media a new a**hole when they try to spin up irrelevant and incorrect issues. The Australian public might yet have the privilege to have you as their leader...not that we'd appreciate it!
jasper
# jasper
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:51 PM
Go quietly ya windbag....bugger off to labor and don't come back.
You were put in parliment to do the best for your country not steal (tax) our hard earned and put it in the hands of merchant banks...mmmm!!
Big business...big banks...are the winners..the little people get screwed and big energy keeps on polluting.
Thanks for nothing you treasonous c#$@
Maureen Jefferies
# Maureen Jefferies
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:01 PM
Why are there black lines through the latter comments supporting Malcolm Turnbull's comments re Abbot. If this is an attempt at 'hacking' or interference, this message is for you. If you believe in democracy then you believe in free speech. If you do not believe in democracy then there are many countries in the world where you would be at home. Australia is not one. Failing your departure spend some time and money educating yourself and attaining maturity. We need the Malcolm Turnbull's of this world who are willing to speak out against the odds..
PS If these lines are a malfunction of my computer then this is a general comment.
Scott Howard
# Scott Howard
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:14 PM
Malcolm, I don't usually vote Liberal but I agree with you entirely. These people are whack jobs - they have their heads in the sand. Further, they don't have the intelligence or vision to see this will hurt the Liberals long term. You're right that a Liberal party without a climate change policy is unelectable, and it will become moreso in years to come as we see the effects of climate change become more obvious. My hat goes off to you.

As for you mouth breathers who disagree with the climate change science, I suggest you read this article from BBC summarising the main skeptic arguments and the counter arguments.
Scott Howard
# Scott Howard
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8376286.stm
Strikeout
# Strikeout
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:19 PM
Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:19 PM
Great post Malcom - I admired your stand on the issue, and believe the Coalition has backed themselves into a major corner with the substantial number of voters.

There should be more discourse being open and honest that fronting the greatest challenge in human history (IMO) will not be without cost, but the hip-pocket impacts in the short term are a very shortsighted way of looking at things.

As every report on the issue has ever identified, it will all cost us more in the long run to ignore the issue.

Keep up the good work - I would have voted for you at the next election given you strong stance on the issue. Abbott scares me.
Frank
# Frank
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:20 PM
Good on you Malcolm. The problem as you pointed out is that the Liberals do not have a Climate Change policy. So if there is no alternative, pass the Bill, at least you g.t the amendments you wanted
Sally
# Sally
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:20 PM
Thanks for your integrity and gutsy outspokenness on this issue, Malcolm. I'm amused by the "supporters" who accuse you of not being Liberal enough for not towing the party line on this.. plainly they haven't read their liberal party history and are unfamiliar with it's ethos as being a bread church, if tending to the conservative generally. It's always been the big criticism of Labor that they don't allow that freedom that you're now exercising. Bit of a hangover of the support base drummed up by that divisive PM Howard I guess.
Bob
# Bob
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:22 PM
....

Malcolm you have no credibility left.

To put it in perspective: A wooden stick which can not speak or move would have more credibility than you.

Abbott 2010
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:25 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A PARTY LINE HAS BEEN DRAWN .

TOW THE PARTY LINE TURNBULL LIKE A GOOD LITTLE FOLLOWER !!!!!

YOU ANSWER TO MR TONY ABBOTT NOW. MR ABBOTT IS YOUR BOSS !!!!

YOU COULDN'T LEAD A DUCK TO WATER TURNBULL !!!!

WE ARE VERY DISSAPOINTED IN YOU TURNBULL !!!!!

GRAEME GILBERT IS DRAGGING YOUR NAME THROUGH THE MUD !!!!!

AND SO HE SHOULD !!!!!!


Shelley
# Shelley
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:27 PM
Well done Malcolm..
My humble suggestion is that if the Liberal Party don't get on board over the vital issue of climate change, then you should run as an Independent!
Malcolm Turnbull - Independent.. Sounds good to me!
Paul
# Paul
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:27 PM
just testing to see of this is working - the last few posts plus the post comment box is edited full of strike throughs
Ken
# Ken
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:34 PM
Well done Malcolm ! That political whore Abbott is a disgrace to the Liberal party and a backward step for the environment.
David Truman
# David Truman
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:34 PM
An excellent posting Malcolm, which transcends the depressing tribal politics too many politicians engage in. Occasionally an issue comes along which is so important that you have to step away from being a 'team player' and tell it like it is. "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man."

To those bloggers who have badmouthed Malcolm for going against Abbott and the new l Liberal "policy" (whatever the hell that is) on the climate change issue: Have you no sense of perspective at all? Do you really think the climate change issue is just another short-term purely economic (tax) policy to be argued over, rather than something that vitally affects all living things and future generations? Have you no regard for the precautionary principle, which is about being prudent and CONSERVATIVE about things that matter?

I'm not tribal in my politics. Abbott's professed intention to go for the political jugular, run a scare campaign, oppose everything the government proposes and rush back to morally reprehensible stuff like Work Choices, strikes me as appallingly divisive. I'm socially conservative myself, but I would not in a FIT vote for a Liberal Party under an Abbott like this, or the evil Minchin (erstwhile apologist for Big Tobacco - see the Australian's article a few days ago), the smarmy Abetz or the loudmouth bogan Tuckey. God save us all.

David Truman (Malcolm: remember me from your days with Star Mining?)
Bren2K
# Bren2K
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:40 PM
Well said, Mr Turnbull, and not a single word wasted. Ignore the fork-tongued lickspittles, the shrieking soulless flunkeys, the tedious turncoats and the denialist foot soldiers. History will judge harshly that those not part of the solution were part of the problem. Abbott is promoting Joyce to the ministry, for goodness' sake - JOYCE. This surely has to be either a sick joke or a ghoulish nightmare.
Strikeout
# Strikeout
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:43 PM
>
Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:43 PM
Facts:

Kellie O'Dwyer won Higgins on Labor votes, as Liberals left the Party in droves.

Newspoll reported a swing to Liberal, as the 2PP vote remained unchanged... this was the minor right parties who preference liberal anyway.

Let's have a new beginning - a new non Labor party ... please Mal... Please.
Luke
# Luke
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:47 PM
Man-made climate change is a complete farce and has been proven wrong. We only have to look at the fact that for the past 8 years the global temperature of the earth has been declining whilst the atmospheric CO2 concentration has continued to increase. Promoting the idea of an ETS is farcical because 1) man-man climate change is non-existent and 2) even if it did exist an Australian ETS would not change the climate one bit. Malcolm your comments are extremely damaging to the Liberal Party and if you find the Party’s climate change policy “bullshit” I think it’s time you defected to the Labor Party where your views are aligned to the party’s views.
Allan
# Allan
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:50 PM
CONGRATULATIONS TURNBULL...............I TYPE ON BEHALF OF EVERYONE YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY COMMITED POLITICAL SUICIDE. WELL DONE.
Andrew
# Andrew
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 PM
Have a close look at the booth results Luke...

This election was a false war - victory delivered to Abbott and Kellie by ALP voters.

The strong Liberal booths deserted with swings from BVetween 24.3% and 15% ...

How do you explain that???
I Wilson
# I Wilson
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:56 PM
I have just watched Dr. James Hansen talking with Tony Jones and condemning the EST as not addressing the problem of the changing
climate He cosiders it more a ploy of Governments and banks to gain
money. I wonder if your fury is as a result of not making a fortune too!
Lyn
# Lyn
Monday, December 07, 2009 11:59 PM
Wow, way to go Malcolm - Bitter doesn't even come close to describing your self indulgent little rant. Unlike you, Abbott will give a voice to the people to participate in a DEBATE that will effect us for the rest of our lives ! Public Debate, something that has been LACKING from our Dear Leader, KRudd! Most Australians believe that our planet is in distress - what Rudd and his little Climate Change pet Penny Wong haven't done is to EXPLAIN to the people the cost in $$$$$ terms to them and their families! Btw - It hasn't escaped my notice that the UN is trying to sign up the West to pay 0.7% of their GDP to third world countries. That will equate to 7 billion a year from Australia.....EVERY YEAR! It's not enough that we have offshored our companies and jobs to these countries, they now want our hard earned tax dollars as well. Any government that signs us up to that sort of punitive measure will be anilated at the next election. This is nothing but a cynical ploy by the UN to shift First world wealth to the Third world. As citizens of THIS country we have a right to expect OUR government to use OUR tax dollars to improve infrastracture & services..........all things that WE the long suffering constituants have been patiently waiting for!!!!
Bren2K
# Bren2K
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:00 AM
NB. The strikeout formatting appeared because of a typo by commenter "# les Paton [Monday, December 07, 2009 10:08 PM], who it appears accidentally introduced a HTML strikeout character instead of an apostrophe.

If the blog master were to correct or delete that post, all will be well again.
Andrew
# Andrew
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv-0mmVnxPA

All of the moderates and liberals who were burned off by the extreme denialist right of the party are ready....
Strikeout
# Strikeout
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:04 AM
I just went to the trouble of fixing poster @ 10.08pm's strikeout typo error for you, Malcolm... just so I can gloat.

Watch ABC's Lateline tonight did we? See the lengthy interview with the famous AGW pioneering climate scientist (and leading fear-monger) James Hansen, of NASA's GISS? Check it out - ABC will doubtless have it on their site in the morning.

James Hansen totally debunked your entire fraudulent argument for an ETS. TOTALLY! He said that "cap and trade", ie, emissions trading schemes, are a fraud, utterly pointless, as they will not / do not reduce carbon dioxide emissions. Full stop.

And here's the biggie, Malcolm.

James Hansen specifically stated that the ONLY people who benefit from ETS's are.... the BANKS!

And guess which bank in particular James Hansen specifically cited... the very first one... as an example of the only entities who benefit from cap-and-trade ETS's?

That's right. YOUR bank, Malcolm. GOLDMAN "!$£*^!%$ SACHS.

Your dogged determination to force an environmentally pointless (according to James Hansen) ETS on us... come hell or high water (pun intended)... is ALL about making BILLIONS for you, and all your Goldman Sachs cronies.

With ZERO environmental benefit.

You and your bankster friends have been exposed by your own side... by none other than the leading figure in the so-called "scientific consensus".

All this drama and chaos... for filthy moolah! You are a despicable, self-serving traitor to the people of this nation.

Luke
# Luke
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:08 AM
Andrew firstly I never said anything about election results. Secondly did you happen to notice that many of the lower income booths such as Chatswood and Hornsby in Bradfield recorded swings to the Liberals of 13.4% and 12.6% respectively. These are the people who will be dramatically affected by the costs of living pressures imposed by the ETS. These lower income areas reflect the outer suburban seats of cities where most of the swinging voters reside and where an election is won or lost. Based upon these results it appears that this particular demographic are exceptionally worried about an ETS and the costs that will be imposed upon them.
Gus
# Gus
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:11 AM
Nice work MT, my opinion of you has completely changed over the last few months.

Not saying the ETS is the greatest of bills. (I'm a greens voter) But nice work naming Abbots bluff about actually having a 'policy.'

We have had enough far right governments recently (howard) i was looking forward to a more sane (center) lib party from you or mr hockey. I have a feeling that we will be seeing this again soon. Abbott is unelectable.

We need an opposition party to keep the government honest in this issue, however we don't need the kind of non-productive bullshit from abbott and co who are pandering to stupid peoples ignorance and prejudice.
Keep up your honest politics
Bren2K
# Bren2K
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:17 AM
I Wilson [Monday, December 07, 2009 11:56 PM], while climate scientist Dr Hansen of NASA on Lateline tonight did advocate against an ETS, he advocated for a CARBON TAX instead (believing it to be more effective in reducing emissions quicker).
James
# James
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:17 AM
Malcom

Conservative parties do not win elections by copying the other side.

Sorry old mate but you have thrown the toys out of th epram once to often and you will not get my vote next election.

Grow up and be a man and support your leader and the grass roots movement of the Liberal party that put him there.

sandgroper
# sandgroper
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:19 AM
Dear Malcolm,
I am terribly confused. As a Liberal supporter, I am not sure what is happening to this party. All I know is that Kevin Rudd has a upper hand and has forced Liberal to this sad stage of affairs by using ETS as a weapon of Liberal Elimination.
Mr Rudd is now selling himself as a credible world leader. He is too big for Australia now. And he is all set for another term of PM.
Ben
# Ben
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:23 AM
The only reason Turnbull stuck to his guns in trying to ram through the ETS bill before the public had a chance to understand it was... Mal has vested interests.

As previous chairman of Goldman Sachs (who bank rolled Obama's Presidential campaign and will manage the global ETS scam), and with a 500 million dollar (including interest) joint law suit over Mal's head, in the wake of his dealings as GS adviser to FAI during the HIH scandal...

I'm sure you'll remember Goldman Sachs (under Turnbull's stewardship) cooked the books to make it look like FAI was worth millions when it was worth nothing? HIH subsequently bought FAI on the advise of Goldman Sachs and Turnbull for 300 mil.

Mal and his criminal mates, Larry Adler et al, (now banned from being company directors), brought on the collapse of HIH collapse and the downfall of many Australian businesses who depended on HIH for their insurance.

Goldman Sachs is due to settle this case against them very soon. Goldman's deal with Mal is that they will waive any claim on him of personal liability but his balls are owned by Goldman Sachs to the tune of hundreds of millions of $$$$$$$. But that’s chicken feed compared to the billions they’ll rake in from the management of the ETS scam.

THAT is why Turnbull was prepared to risk his political arse for the ETS. He could care less about the environment. He has no environmental scruples, demonstrated by his insistence on converting Tasmania's old growth forests into toilet paper with his GUNNS deal when he was environment minister.

This is all on public record, yet the details of this story haven't been exposed in any comprehensive way in the media. Why not?

Mal is a high powered corporate sleaze with his snout in the trough at the really big end of town.

The media has completely whitewashed this. I've never seen Turnbull questioned in relation to any of this. How does he manage to fly under the radar?

Because we reward criminals if they wear a nice smile and a suit.

Links:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/hih-score-settled-for-malcolm/story-e6frg6no-1111119117953

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/services/advising/environmental-markets/business-initiatives/trading-and-cap-markets.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/malcolm-spared-a-grilling-in-hih-case/story-e6frg8zx-1111117525251


Andrew
# Andrew
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:25 AM
Can you read stats Luke...

What does it mean when Labor booths swing Liberal, and Liberal booths swing Green?

Next time there will be a Lbor candidate - and given the Liberal base has fled - the Abbott Conservatives will be destroyed.

Didn't your extreme right faction teach you guys how to read the stats???

It's time for a new Party....
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:27 AM
Heh heh heh heh heh - Gus, I have a sneaking suspicion that Abbott is going to suprise a lot of people.....by winning the next election. People have had a gutfull of our Milky Bar Kid PM - the biggest carbon emitter in Australian history. Between him and Al Gore they must have carbon footprints the size of a YETI !!

Has anyone told Super Kev that planes burn up the atmosphere! Hasn't the schmuck ever heard of VIDEO CONFERENCING! It just boggles the mind all these world leaders crisscrossing the globe to attend their effing endless summits - which mostly end up achieving ZILCH!

Bren2K
# Bren2K
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:27 AM
Sorry "Strikeout", I beat you to it. Have a second look ;)

And while you're raving about Dr Hansen, I note you (like "I Wilson") omit the highly cogent detail that he argued instead for a CARBON TAX.

This is why climate scientists should stick to giving the best advice they can about climate science; and economists should stick to giving the best advice they can about economics.

Your big-end-of-town wealth conspiracy doesn't hold water nor sense. Was Garnaut supportive of an ETS to make big bucks for bank cronies? Was Stern? Was Shergold? Obviously Howard didn't think so. That's an awfully big claim, and a potentially defamatory one, so I assume you're able to back it up with more than just hysterical anonymous ranting on a blog?
Turn-bull Bullshit
# Turn-bull Bullshit
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:29 AM
YOUR A FREAKING MORAN MALCOM..

GO MAKE COME MONEY TRADING CARBON CREDITS..
Jack
# Jack
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:30 AM
Malcolm, you need to build a bridge....and GET OVER IT!!! You have been defeated by Tony cause you were NOT an opposition, you just agreed with Rudd on most policies.
I would NEVER have voted for Paul Fletcher if you were the leader of the opposition last weekend, but seeing how Tony DEFEATED you, I have faith in the Liberal party led by Tony Abbott and voted for Paul Fletcher last weekend.
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:36 AM
Very astute observations Ben - and thanks for the links.
Hopefully now that Abbott is in charge the Australian public WILL now get the chance to understand exactly what this means for them, their families and their wallets!! State governments are already using this ETS as an excuse to increase electricity to obscene levels. Here in Qld they have already gone up 16% with another 26% increase mooted for next year......and this is just the BEGINNING!
Godfrey
# Godfrey
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:37 AM
Well said Malcolm. I have to agree that Abbott. Minchin and Joyce have absolutely no intention of doing anything about climate change. I would say their attitude is that Australia does not need to do anything and we should sell as much coal to China and India as we possibly can until such time as they find other sources of energy. That is as far as their thinking goes.

They cannot and will not understand that as Germany's Angela Merkel said to the U.S congress _the EU is moving ahead, Japan is moving ahead, China is moving ahead, Britain is moving ahead-with or without the U.S. and now Australia.
The irony is that the U,S may well move ahead too and leave Australia like the proverbial shag sitting on a rock , trying to sell its dirty coal which no one will want because the rest of the world has moved on to carbon free economies.

Please keep telling it as it is Malcolm and expose the Abbott con.
Simon Haber
# Simon Haber
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:37 AM
Dear Malcom

On behalf of my 19 month old daughter who will bare the brunt and have to pay the price for mine and our forefathers inabilities to respond to climate change I thank you for your effort and passion towards this important subject.

Your courage and tenacity is a breath of fresh air in the Australian political arena and politics needs this.

Perhaps its time to do a Don Chip and start a new party - perhaps the Liberal Greens might be a fitting new title!

You have won my vote.
Andrew
# Andrew
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:38 AM
It's time for a new party...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjqtuUXnm2g
Strikeout
# Strikeout
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:39 AM
“The fraudulence of the Copenhagen approach – "goals" for emission reductions, "offsets" that render ironclad goals almost meaningless, the ineffectual "cap-and-trade" mechanism – must be exposed.” -- James Hansen, The Guardian, 29 Nov 09.

Bren2K, who mentioned Garnaut? Or Stern? Or Shergold? Keep throwing those red herrings, mate.

But since you brought up Garnaut / Stern, interesting that these two are mentioned in the Climategate emails:

(Phil Jones to Michael Mann, Ray Bradley, and Caspar Ammann) - 1210341221.txt

"You can delete this attachment if you want. Keep this quiet also, but
this is the person who is putting in FOI requests for all emails Keith and Tim
have written and received re Ch 6 of AR4. We think we've found a way
around this.
I can't wait for the Wengen review to come out with the Appendix showing what
that 1990 IPCC Figure was really based on.
The Garnaut review appears to be an Australian version of the Stern Report.
This message will self destruct in 10 seconds!
Cheers
Phil"

Everyone who's done a modicum of research knows that Turnbull came into parliament, was the prime mover who commissioned Shergold to do his report... and Howard pathetically rolled over on accepting and running with an ETS at the death, in a desperate 11th-hour bid to save the election.

Have a good dig around on Garnaut's business interests too... cometh the fame, cometh the money.

You're a DENIALIST, Bren2K. O how the worm turns.
Strikeout
# Strikeout
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:47 AM
Thanks Ben @ 12:23am. Very, very pertinent information. It's about time all these crooks were brought to justice.
DavidPeter
# DavidPeter
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:48 AM
Yeah was that you who locked my browser strike out. What do you think is going to happen if labour goes for an election
Who wants the ETS. Don't worry they'll gain the senate next time and no one will get a say.Your personal attack is groundless and now I must try to repeat what I have allready written. DICKHEAD.

Malcolm
If you take the time to read all of these comments and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't

Sugestion
Take the emmitions reduction target and divide it by the world population
The answer will be our right to life.
Let individuals trade with buissiness their carbon credits charge 10% on the traded credit and invest that into reserch and developement of better technologies.This way we will reach emmitions targets buisiness will know it's limit and the carbon users will foot the bill. the indigenous will gain an income where they had none. This will spread wealth more evenly gaining the third world a foot hold in market ecconomies and the individual can decide how they use their carbon.
It's an idear you should consider

Good on you for knowing how our government must work.
Good on you for making a hard decision.
Good on you for making the best of a bad circumstance.
If you are going to cross the floor then make sure you get us value for money.
don't waist your sacrifice on marbels make sure it is gold coins.
Craig Goodrich
# Craig Goodrich
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:49 AM
When there is no problem, just media hype without any scientific backing whatever, as is the case with this entire issue, the statesman will have the courage to do nothing.

I am bemused by the fact that Andrew above is perfectly willing to have his daughter grow up under policies guaranteed to utterly destroy both her freedom and her potential prosperity, but worries about completely nonexistent and impossible climate catastrophes.

To those of us who have been following the "science" closely for two decades, it has long been clear that there is none. The IPCC reports are, to coin a phrase, pure political bullshit.

And as to conspiracies -- if I stand on the corner yelling "free money", those that queue up need not have conspired with each other. This whole business has been utterly absurd from the start, and only the wretched scientific illiteracy of the chattering classes has allowd the silliness to reach the level where we are actually considering these disastrous policies, while dreaming of happy bunnies prancing through a meadow of colorful wildflowers.

Neither "cap n traid" nor carbon taxes will affect the climate in the slightest. But either would destroy your economy. Some "precautionary principle."
Dave Wane
# Dave Wane
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:51 AM
Malcolm,

Your ambition to take control of the Liberal Party, and change it into a socialist party of moronic, sheep-like socialists seems to have encountered some strong resistance from freedom and free-enterprise- loving Tony Abbott, and his supporters.

Australia already has a Prime Minister who wanted the "top" job above all else, no matter what damage he caused to the economy. His name is Kevin Rudd. Are you much better? I doubt it.

We surely do not need a "kevin-lite". And of course, that is how I, and many other people from the REAL world see you. Especially given your stance on the theory of man-made-climate- change.

Maybe the position of Premier of New South Wales, leading a Labor government, would better suit your politial philosophy?

Please provide you view's.
Not Impressed
# Not Impressed
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:52 AM
You got done by Abbott fair and square Malcolm, you sour grapes here show just how little respect you have for the party you claim to represent. That's what got you dumped Malcolm! It's only you that believes you are some how so special that the world needs you to enforce your opinions on them.

Your white-anting shows what a bitter and twisted maggot your really are.

The public do not like being told what they should think! The public are not so stupid that they cannot differentiate between carbon pollution reduction and a tax which does nothing to stop a single emmission.

If you are so hell bent on peddling Labor rhetoric Malcom then bugger off and join the ALP, you already know how to peddle their views.

Australia needs some real leadership in politics, not sulking ex merchant bankers, undermining all around them from the cheap seats.

Do the honerable thing Malcolm go join the ALP your doing no-one any favours where you are, not the public and not yourself. After all the voters of Wentworth could well do with a return to a member who represented his/her electorate.
Dr Andrew Power
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:53 AM
Malcolm,

I congratulate you for speaking your mind. Too many sell themselves short all too often.

I think Abbotts contention is sleazing his way to an early election with the hopes of riding false misconceptions with his half-assed proposals. Of course he'll only talk to Rudd about it. How else can he get face time as the media hog he presents as.

Stick to your guns Mal - It's the aussie way!

-Andrew

PS - Kudos to the above poster who called you a moran (not moron). That poster obviously lacks a dictionary to look up the very word he misspelt, otherwise he may just find his photo looking back at him.
Scott
# Scott
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:53 AM
Very bad Malcolm...very bad form indeed. Really does seem like sour grapes. There's many here that obviously support you; that must be comforting. But I think you have moved too close to Rudd and he in turn hasn't explained what the ETS is all about.

Abbott might be talking bullshit right now...but there's many of us who think YOU are ALL talking bullshit. Hell-bent on slamming this MAJOR legislation through without explaining it properly to us plebs.

Your outburst is despicable...you have descended to a very low level. Just leave politics -you're no good at it.

Cold Hard Truth
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:55 AM
Couldnt agree more with the last poster. Stick to ya guns mate
Zoo
# Zoo
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:57 AM
The ETF has more to do with Goldman Sachs and co making a profit on carbon credit exchanges (defacto TAXING carbon producers instead of the Aussie government itself), than to do with actually curbing carbon emmissions. Of course, like all pollies on the take, the libs in general have probably received more payoffs from net polluters (think coal and oil industry) than from the likes of Goldman Sachs and their fellow investment bankster buddies, so they their job is to jam up the ETF legistlation. On the other hand, Kevin and his ALP buds (and ex Goldman alumni Turnbull) got all their payoffs from the investment banksters who probably wrote the damn bill for them in the first place.

Follow the money - it's all about who makes money from the ETF and who loses money. Sweet FA to do with global warming really.
Greg
# Greg
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:57 AM
This is the first time I've visited this blog but after hearing Malcolm's comments reported in various media today I wondered whether the reports were accurate. It seems they were...unfortunately. It's likely I won't be visiting again.

Malcolm had his chance to explain his reasons for supporting the ETS legislation to the general public and failed to do so. He and Rudd/Wong also failed to explain adequately how the ETS was proposed to work. Instead they branded anyone who questioned either the ETS or Climate Change, a 'sceptic'.

It's interesting reading the polarised comments on here. They are from annoyed Liberal voters on one side and delighted Labor voters on the other with little in the middle.

Petulence doesn't become you, Malcolm.
Not Impressed
# Not Impressed
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:03 AM
Banning light globes! That was one of yours, wasn't it Malcolm. And the resultant energy savings from that are? About the same as Rudd's ETS. And the cost to the community is?

You peddle your poison that the Libs deny costs, all the time cointing the perks of a safe liberal seat.

The model is flawed and your motives aren't trusted. That is why Malcolm Turnbull MP is now a back bencher, that and your perpetual bad polling.

You've secured yourself a comfortable gig Malcolm, even from the back benches. If your ego can't cop that then it's time to go. Turn the light off on the way out wont you, you know it reduces carbon polution to do so.
Dinah Aram
# Dinah Aram
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:04 AM
Shame on you for this display that appears childish and vindictive. It does you no favours.
John
# John
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:09 AM
Well done Malcolm! You, not the Liberal, have earned my vote.

Some people don't believe that smoking is harmful regardless what the scientists say. It hasn't caused any harm to them for years and there's no sign will be tomorrow. However, when the day does come, it may be all too late.

On the 3 Dec, Abbots said ""Whether it's a stealth tax (like) the emissions trading scheme, whether it's an upfront and straight forward tax like a carbon tax, there will not be any new taxes as part of the Coalition's policies."

On the 6 Dec in his interview with Ch9, he has changed his view to '“Without Great Big New Tax”.

In just 3 days changed from no any new taxes to no great big new tax. Exactly a bit of weather vane.

Didn't Hockey claim that Mr Abbott's proposals would cost $50 billion.

What is Abbot's policy? It depends (on the weather), if it can get him to the party leader.
Brian Richard Allen
# Brian Richard Allen
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:09 AM
Some straight talk:

There has been a rumor around these past several years, Mr Turnbull, to the effect that you're a bit of a whiz lawyer.

Must been as a lawyer of the slip and fall kind -- or a conveyancer -- for God knows you lack either the good common sense or the moral integrity, even, to be the kind of, say, John Howard lawyer, of the kind that successfully fails - into politics.

For starters, Mr Turnbull -- and even before the recent whistle-blower's release of the confirming literature (eMails) that confirmed what those previously misnamed "skeptics" and who are now called The Vindicated -- it was as clear as is the nose on your face that the Socialist-International/”Democratic” Party military-industrial-complex had morphed into and had become the “climate-change-“science”-industrial-complex.

You may have heard of the military-industrial-complex, Mr Turnbull. The one against which the Republican United States President, Eisenhower, warned us, that depended upon “domination of the nation's scholars by federal employment, project allocations, the power of (government, whose) money is ever present and gravely to be regarded” -- and that a “government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity.” Bit like the way it is with climate “science” The “science,” that is of both protecting the gummint check – and advancing its tyranny.

The military industrial complex, especially that part of it located in Southern California and Texas and by way of which several generations of “Democrats” had fattened themselves and their cronies and cohorts – and thousands of complicit bureaucrats with “science” degrees and/or “qualifications” -- was pretty much wiped out when the Republican United States President, Reagan, defeated the Soviet Union and won the Cold War.

There is no way to kill a Socialist-International-sponsored malignancy, though and so little wonder that the manifestation of evil by way of which several generations of effectively-treasonous and arrogantly-corrupt war-profiteering “Democrats” (Kennedys, Kerrys and the entire LB Johnson “administration” spring to mind as (big surprise this one) does the second-generation Soviet-Agent/Armand Hammer-supporting Goebbels Warm-mongering Al Gore, (AKA The World’s Most Dangerous Dullard!) have fattened themselves, their cohorts, their cronies, their complicit bureaucrats with “science” degrees – and, Mr Turnbull, please note) their useful idiots -- has morphed into the “global-warming”-morphed into the “climate change”-industrial complex!

There is no surprise to be taken from the un-and-anti-Australian, Socialist-International-supporting Labour Party’s incitement, encouragement, facilitation and support of this fraud-based godless-religion-like mass-hysteria. But the purpose of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, Mr Turnbull – and especially when that responsibility falls upon what these days passes itself as a “conservative” (IE: moral integrity guided) party, to whit the Liberal Party to which you pretend, is to oppose. And especially to oppose those policies that will, at the cost of irreparable harm done to what remains of our once-free nation (much of its sovereignty already surrendered to their Socialist-International masters by other Socialist International and/or Peking-predator-kowtowing Labour Party luminaries) -- but advance tyranny – and the Socialist International.

Which brings us to the Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition and to what has gone on behind the parliamentary Liberal Party’s closed doors these past weeks. It goes like this, Mr back-bencher, Turnbull:

You supported the Socialist International-supporting, Peking-predator kowtowing K.Rudd’s un-and-anti-Australian attempted surrender of much of Australia’s Sovereignty and the accompanying transfer of Scores of Billions of the confiscated Dollars of Australia’s (and therefore of the world’s) most creative, innovative, productive and industrious men, via the fraud of “climate change,” into the more-likely-to-kick-back claws of the third-world thugs and dictators that complete the quorum at the international junket-fests much beloved of Labour Party politicians, by the foreign tyrants to whom they toady -- and to which they all pay slobbering homage.

We the Australian People, your bosses, took umbrage at your effective abrogation of your duty to us and to our Nation and, as is our Absolute right – and is our duty – telegraphed our rejection of your complicity in the K.Rudd Labour Party’s sellout – and you were fired!

Please note that the name of the Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition is the Honorable Tony Abbot. And that your Fifteen Minutes, Mr back-bencher Turnbull, is over. Please sit down and … um .. be quiet!

Cordially – Brian
Rhyll McMaster
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:09 AM
Dear Malcolm - Decades ago I had lunch with you and others at Susy Carlton's; I recall it with great clarity because, on proffering an opinion about something, you told me to "shut up and eat your lunch". But I have forgiven you your casual paternalism because currently you are affording me the most delicious pleasure as you barnstorm your way through the ugly joke that is the present Coalition. I don't really care what your motives are, and I'm not a Liberal voter, but I cannot abide parliamentarians who are not intelligent, and neither, it would seem, can you. So the sooner Abbott and Joyce are upended the better. Good luck.
Rhyll
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:10 AM
Dr Andrew Power - The only media hog around here is Mr Kevin ( EGO is my middle name) Rudd. It's a well known fact that he craves a UN position after he is done running 'little' Australia (into the ground) !! God bless Tony Abbott - because he is going to give Australians the answers they DESERVE !! Holding Rudd and his band of hysterical 'the end is nigh' proponents to account is at the very least going to be INTERESTING! When was the last time Rudd did anything INTERESTING, other than to attend endless sumits and engage in PC spin. Abbott is forming a different plan.........AND I WANT TO HEAR IT!!
Paul
# Paul
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:15 AM
Malcolm Turnbull you are a disgrace to yourself, and the people who voted for you last time around. You are a bad sport, and you are not worthy of sitting in the Federal Parliament. You must be one the greatest let downs in Australian Politics this decade. Shame on you and your bad judgment.
anonymous
# anonymous
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:16 AM
you are acting like a child and you are letting the liberal party down.

it's been reported that australia contributes somewhere between 0.8 and 1.5 percent of the world's emissions. reducing that amount by 5 percent will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem (if there is actually a problem)

this issue really has nothing to do with whether or not you believe in climate change, even if it is happening it makes no sense whatsoever for australia to act ahead of the world when its contribution to the overall problem is so minimal (the whole "lead by example" argument is absolutely ridiculous, not only is it arrogant for us to think the rest of the world cares what we do, i simply do not see why we should sacrifice our own economy in order to make a gesture)

i do not understand how this issue has become the urgent "we must act now or meet our doom" wave of hysteria that it has... for you to start attacking your own party over it and going on a moral crusade is absolute madness

thank god abbott has stepped in to actually OPPOSE krudd and this ETS "bullshit"
bob
# bob
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:25 AM
listen to malcom he say the truth abbert worst than hitla an polepot luv child togetha becos he hate all gay peoples and only want to give big monee to the church and only make pollution to make climate worst.
Hamish Sobers
# Hamish Sobers
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:28 AM
Thanks Malcolm. You have just convinced me not to vote for any Liberal candidate at the 2010 federal election and to vote either Green or Labor.
And in 2010 I will not be yelling out words of encouragement to you as I did in 2007, when I observed you and Shayne Mallard standing outside the Kings Cross railway station, dodgers in hand, apparently friendless and lonely, looking despondent and forlorn. You clearly don't need encouragement.
John
# John
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:37 AM
Don't know what ETS is?
Ask Dr Google.
I just came across to Professor Ian Lowe's Carbon Trading 101. I still remember that a couple of days ago I came across to a link that explains well ETS. Sure this is not something like 1 + 1 = 2 thing. If I find that it is difficult to understand, it does not mean they have not explained it well.
Not Impressed
# Not Impressed
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:52 AM
Why is it Malcolm, Penny, Peter and Kev's environment policy is all fear about some poosible future impact, and at the same time puts the disgrace that is Murray/Darling into the too hard basket?

When the ETS tax has blead the country dry to fill bankers pockets will the rest of our country expect the same neglect and inaction?

Your all problems and no solutions Malcolm that's why you are being seated further back!

With good environmental policy Malcom no one has to pay. It's all about doing things better, not taxing our nation into oblivion while shipping our industry overseas..
John
# John
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:54 AM
I often read something like this: Australia contributes little to the total emission. A reduction of such a percent will do nothing to solve the problem. Wait and see what other countries are willing to do, then we think about it.

Leaders think differently from followers.
If I can, I want to be a leader.
Paddy Mc Ginty
# Paddy Mc Ginty
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:21 AM
Malcolm, you have rolled over into Rudd's camp. Rudd and his nodding donkeys have been pulling the wool over the eyes of the electorate on every issue that matters since they came to power. I thought Mr Turnbull, that you would have asked the important questions and held out for answers rather than becoming an echo of Rudd. Australia should be grateful to Tony Abbot for stopping the mad rush to an ETS before Copenhagen. There is plenty of time to define our strategy when we see where the rest of the world is going. Everyone knows that if we were to completely stop using fossil fuels it would make little impression on carbon dioxide levels anyway so why paint ourselves into a corner that we would not be able to get out of, just to make Kevin Rudd look good.
With some of the so called leading climate scientists totally discredited, because of their massaging of the temperature data, we should be very careful when reading the IPCC reports which were carefully edited to suit a particular viewpoint.. How many other top "climate scientists" rounded their data up or down to better fit a preconceived idea? Probably quite a few. When the fraudsters are peer reviewing their mates work how much credibility does any of it have.
In view of this, only a fool would swallow everything Rudd and Wong spout about the effects of carbon dioxide on the climate. Mr Turnball you have fallen for the bait. You should move on or join the ALP, you have lost credibility. You didn't get your way and now you are trying to destroy the only the Liberal Party. Australia can't afford two Rudds. You are the vindictive, Trojan horse that will destroy the Australian economy for no climatic gain. I hope that Australians will take the opportunity provided by Tony Abbott to learn a bit more about the issue and see the big picture.
Remember, Greenland was not always covered by ice and the extent of the Alpine glaciers in the not too distant past was considerably less than it is today. The climate changes all the time and man will not change that. We should look after the planet and plant trees and other vegetation where possible to reuce and if possible reverse desertification. Everybody would see the sense in that. Creating a market for emissions trading is not going to have any tangible benefits as far as the man in the street is concerned. Al Gore might make a few bucks out of it however.

You'll never again get my vote Malcolm. I don't agree with everything Tony Abbott says but at least he put the brakes on before Rudd took us over the cliff.
You were too close to Rudd's backside to see the road ahead.
david
# david
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:31 AM
Stick with it Malcolm. The nitwits who have snatched control of your Party are doing the country a terrible dis-service by fostering half-truths, distortions and plain falsehoods about climate change and the need to respond to it. Abbott is leading his mob into a policy dead-end, as will soon be obvious to all.
John Baas
# John Baas
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:36 AM
Many thanks Mr T.

Now, having picked apart Mr A's flippityflops, may I ask that you get down to some serious forensic analysis of dear Barnaby's position.

I know that I live in the City but surely not all the Bush can take him for Messiah?

Raraland deserves better.

Cheers. JB.
dumb as a rock
# dumb as a rock
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:40 AM
australian are mostly dumb as rocks, they have no idea that this ets only benifits the likes of lying al gore [ already made a billion from cap and trade not even launch yet] goldman sachs [suprise suprise] and obama heavily invested in cap and trade, people dont even know the reserve bank of australia is a private bank same as all other countrys reserve's NOT GOVERMENT. they act like its the peoples fault when australians has been lead down the garden path by the infiltrated enviromental movment , doing every scheme enthusiatically THEY SAID would help the enviorment but has little or negitive effect ,but its always making some insider rich. they dont even know the un is a evil organisation that will get the carbon tax ,they dont even know that codex alimentraius comes into affect this month, they watch the tv and think there informed, they dont realize that most scientists work for goverments and private corparations and wont keep there jobs long if they step out of line, and there only given grants if its technolegies they want researched, they dont even know hitler was the first person to put sodium fluoride in the water in the concentration camps to make them docile and dumb,, everyday i see on tv people suprised and shocked that theres little or no justice in this country, there shocked when there children get autism and gillian barr from the twenty four vaccines before the age of four filled with baby fetus tissue, animal dna, mercury, and cancer viruses, so keep drinking your yummy chemical water and keep cheering for kevie and malcom and keep trusting your gov, yer no goverment as ever hurt anyone you dumb rocks
Brian Richard Allen
# Brian Richard Allen
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:43 AM
Dear Goebbels' Warm-ongers

Reflect for a minute on the sad reality that:" ... the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research ... (and) a government contract (has become) a substitute for intellectual (integrity). For every old blackboard there are now (millions of computers).


"The ... domination of the nation's 'scientists' by federal ... allocations, and the power of money ... (has absolutely corrupted 'science').

"Yet, in holding 'scientific research' and 'discovery' in respect, as we (once could), we must also be alert to the ... danger that public policy (has) become the captive of a (pseudo)-scientific-technological elite."

-- Dwight David Eisenhower - With apologies to

Cordially - Brian
Paul
# Paul
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:46 AM
As a student of leadership, I would observe you have failed the primary test of a true leader, namely to bring your team along with you. What sort of leader walks out of a meeting, preemptively as you did, without ensuring cohesive agreement on the team's overall way forward?

An old manager of mine also had a saying on being a team player: "Agree and commit, or disagree but still commit". On that basis, I would think you have also just failed the test of being a true team player.

Having previously been deeply respectful of your talents, I now left wondering what you have to offer to a team like the Liberal Party?

Your deep belief in Anthropogenic Global Warming leaves me further wondering if you have done adequate due diligence on the science. If you look closely, you will discover two facts:
1. Deep doubts exist on the critical assumption of high climate sensitivity, that is necessary to drive temperatures above 1 degC over the long term norm. Google "Lindzen and Choi 2009", or "Paltridge and Wentz" to learn more about these critical papers, based on observations, not computer models!

2. There appear to have been systematic attempts to hide historical climate variability, in order to link this past century's temperatures and recent anthropogenic CO2. In truth, the climate heating we have observed between 1974 and 1998 is "nuthin special" - indeed we had the same rate of warming between 1900 and 1940, a period during which anthropogenic CO2 release was much lower!

ETS-is-a-scam
# ETS-is-a-scam
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:57 AM
Dear Mr Turnbull,

Is it true that you only support the ETS because you may indirectly but financially (on a significant level) benefit via Goldman Sachs trading in the ETS?

I hope it is not true, otherwise people may start calling you Mr Turnbullsh*t.
David
# David
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:21 AM
Go away quietly, you are a disgrace to the liberal party.

I am going to look for your name on the ballot and vote you down. I am also going to encourage others to do the same.

You want to reap the financial benefits of the ETS and do not care what it would do to the Australian public. No wonder your opinion rating was so low. You don't stand for anything but yourself.

You disgrace.
ETS-is-a-scam
# ETS-is-a-scam
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:42 AM
Dear Mr Turnbull,

Please see the link below in regards to the CRU (Climate Research Unit) illegally *deleting* damning emails (that disprove their global warming theory) which were legally requested under the UK Freedom of Information Act.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/11/24/john-lott-climate-change-emails-copenhagen/#discussion-form

Excerpts below:

"Tim Osborn, discusses in e-mails how truncating a data series can hide a cooling trend that would otherwise be seen in the results. "

"If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I’ll delete the file rather than send to anyone"

"I did get an e-mail from the FOI person here early yesterday to tell me I shouldn’t be deleting e-mails"

"We only have e-mails from Professor Jones' institution, and, with his obvious approach to delete files; we have no idea what damaging information has been lost."
Tony
# Tony
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:08 AM
I am ashamed to admit that I first met Ian Plimer in 1992 as we were members of the Australian Skeptics. Ian wrote about the need to develop "Bullshit Filters" in his much needed book "Telling lies for God". Being a geologist & having a lot of creationists as cronies seems to have affected Ian - he has collected a lot of bullshit and has been enthused by throwing it as climate scientists for the sake of promoting the mining industry. I suspect he has been spinning this dung into a fine yarn which could be exported to China to be knitted in to a fine suit for Tony Abbott.

But seriously there are issues that need to be addressed as outlined here http://vimeo.com/7974428 by Senator Milne for these Bills to proceed.

Good on you Marie for Joining the Greens, I once was a Aust Democrat Voter who felt betrayed by the Infamous five, I found the Greens to be a fertile party with practical policies and a sound structure so I joined 5 years ago.

Labor have tried from the outset to exclude the Greens from any brokered Deal to get an ETS passed, why would that be?
Ruth
# Ruth
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:14 AM
The ETS may not be the perfect model but it is a start. I do agree with the comments on Lateline tonight being more about big business but then again, they are the biggest polluters and users of Fossil fuels. Barnaby Joyce going around with a Skeptic telling people a one sided story doesn't help the situation, just confuse's it. Anyway, he seemed to know more about the colour of Mr Abbotts underwear than make a rational comment about the climate.
Seffo
# Seffo
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:09 AM
Ease off Malcolm, I suspect what you are failing to see is that the majority of voters in yours, and many more electorates in the country have finally been heard! It is therefore expedient and correct to vote down the ETS because you and your colleagues are supposed to represent your electorates and not your own opinions!

You are a very bright lad, but I suspect you think you know more than us mere voters so why should you vote what we want? I'll tell you why, because if you can't, you don't belong in politics! Rightly or wrongly, history will record the truth, Tony has voted the way his electorate wanted him to vote... the fact you have been blinded by your own personal committment to AGW and ETS is the cause of the Liberals not having an alternative policy... because you, and the other Climate Change Ostriches never put it on the agenda to create one!

Shame on you for bad-mouthing what the voters want... full and proper debate on AGW and ETS and a holding pattern until we see what happens at Copenhagen. I think, as always, there will be no empirical result from Copenhagen, but the Climate Change Ostriches will find something to brag about I'm sure... but it won't be committments from the USA,China, India, Pakistan or Brazil If they don't commit, then why should we... do we really want to travel back in time to the inflation and unemployment figures of the Keating & Hawke eras?

Signed
Climate Realist!
DB
# DB
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:20 AM
ATT: RUTH
If you listen and watch ABC, you will belive that Earth is flat! Wake up to the fact that ABC is as left as they come!
Do you people understand communism? I have lived in a communist country and I KNOW HOW IT SMELLS!!!
ETS smells like it!
phill Parsons
# phill Parsons
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:30 AM
At the start of the Copenhagen Conference the Potsdam Institute anounces that the targets for reduction in emissions proposed by all nations together mean a 3.5dC temperature rise.

Enjoy that realists, because it will be very real for future generations.

It appears Turnbull believes in something and has the principle to honour agreements. Its a very sad day that you are lining up behind Abbott who appears to have niether value.
Andy Kowalski
# Andy Kowalski
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 6:35 AM
I don't give a sh_t about future generations! I live today and pay taxes today fools!
NoBody
# NoBody
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:24 AM
Well said Andy K. We OWE fhe future nothing.
Kevin V Russell
# Kevin V Russell
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:27 AM
Mal mate, were you watching the Insiders on Sunday morning? Did you even listen to the debates in the Senate regarding the Labor party's proposed ETS. It is a monumental failure. It won't even have any effect until 2020. It hands out huge bags of cash to the worst polluters like the generators in the Latrobe Valley. If this is the best the Country can come up with then I'm happy to say I'm a skeptic. By the way, what is your proposal?
Melbourne hammer
# Melbourne hammer
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:27 AM
Give me a break. Some of the responses on this website have simply missed the point. Abbott adopted a series of different positions on this issue including as late as the week before it was debated - can anyone honestly say that his positions were principled at any stage or intended to do anything other than destabilise the position of Turnbull ?

And yet half of you want to string Malcolm up because he has adopted a single consistent position the whole way through this debate.

By all means deny climate change if you want. I don't think anybody (except perhaps the most rabid of greens) thinks there is an unambiguous aspect to the science. But Malcolm's position is the correct one - sensible risk management says you get insurance and you prepare your economy to deal with the risk.

And the opposite to the most rabid greens are the Minchin's of this world who think it is a giant left wing conspiracy dreamed up by a few academics whose bolshevist cell has remained hidden for 20 years waiting to pounce.

It goes to show that for a proportion of true believers the only thing that matters is to close ranks behind a leader (not unlike bolshevism in truth) no matter how many people tell them the emperor has no clothes.
chris
# chris
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:51 AM
hi Malcolm,
I rue the day that Australian politics lost the consensus on global warming. Although I have never voted Liberal i think it is important to have a progressive and moderate opposition so that Australian politics can move to the middle ground rather than to the rabid right currently.
I would urge you to consider setting up another party Liberal Democrats as you would no doubt carry a lot of the liberals that are progressive such as yourself.
Its very good for the environment that you keep the pressure on the opportunitistic, illogical and dangerous position that the Liberal party is currently following.
I predict that there will be another leadership spill early in the new year once the party sees that they are being lead over the cliff by the flat earthers.
chris
Steve
# Steve
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 7:59 AM
Hi Malclm
I did not think that you of all people would go off like a spoilt little brat that didn't get his own way but YOU HAVE. As a long time liberal voter and what you call a climate sceptic (I prefer climate realist) it's time for you to go as your only interest is now your ego. Your responses in defeat are similar to one previous opposition leader...one Mark Latham.
Steve
Liam O'connor
# Liam O'connor
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:22 AM
Why don't you go away Malcolm. Maybe join the labour party or greens. As a lifelong liberal voter I would not have voted for you anyway.
Reuben
# Reuben
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:53 AM
Mr. Turnbull you are correct and have shown yourself to be a man of principle.

I see many people debating the best way to mitigate climate change i.e. pretending that the current Liberal leadership are not denying climate change. Sorry, you need to replay the Four Corners episode. It's all there: straight out climate change denial - they think that the earth is flat.

My gratuitous advice to Mr. Turnbull: Once you have clearly stated your position and solidly reinforced it by crossing the floor you will have to re-position yourself as a leader. This will require the self discipline to keep quiet. You cannot be the scapegoat for the party losing by being seen to undermine the Liberal Party. For example Mr. Costello clearly favored an apology to Indigenous Australians. He was able to make that very clear without undermining his party.
Bob Dee
# Bob Dee
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:57 AM
Malcolm, Please don't do a Latham. At this time, you need to take a shower, it is Christmas, so have a few weeks off and come back in the New Year. Thanks for what you did over the last year but now it is time to reflect. Merry Xmass..
Dusty
# Dusty
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:06 AM
Mr, Turnbull no doubt you are smarting at your loss of leadership but frankly you did it to yourself, in attempting to allow Rudd's tax to pass you turned yourself into a socialist clone of the Labor Party.
The response from ordinary people was overwhelmingly against the ETS.
If you cross the floor to vote with the Labor party you will sentence yourself to political oblivion.
Alex D
# Alex D
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:12 AM
Please keep trumpeting the truth - it's always welcome and very, very refreshing.
Dallas Beaufort
# Dallas Beaufort
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:15 AM
Hi Malcolm , Have you heard of Inigo Jones ?
John de Villiers
# John de Villiers
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:24 AM
Malcolm
If the man made CO2 portion of total greenhouse gases is only 0.117%, how can this (man made) portion be most likely responsible for warming the planet?
This is what is claimed by the IPCC.
Whats wrong with being sceptical about that?
Actually thank God for those who question
By the way, is Al Gore at Copenhagen?
worried grandma
# worried grandma
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:27 AM
i do not understand why people think that Mr. Turnbull is doing this for himself he has nothing to gain.
He is doing it for my grandchildren his and yours, if you do not have any then he is doing it so e.g. you may need someone who is healthy re doctors etc to look after you down the track people do no even think about what may happen in their future only look at the walletts and think o this could cost me.There are
other values we have to consider and it is not MONEY.
We just lost a lot of our supper in the global crash but we are not complaining we have our health and that is all the wealth we need.
i watch an English documentary that told the story as follows.

the reporter was in India along the Ganges River. The reporter then took the viewer to the high areas above the river it had had been marked in the 1800
60.s and 8o.s the mark where the river began, Now one can only see in the very distance where the Ganges River begins. The locals who are not scientists told the story how over the last 10 years the river beginnings suddenly vanished to higher ground. This all means that the snow is higher and there was NO glaciers left in the lower areas.
The elderly man who lived in the area would of been perhaps 80.
Took the British reporter down to where the River flows through the farming districts or part there of. The Farmer and the Scientist explained that this is where all the food is grown for India along the banks.
When ask by the reporter he said if the Ganges stops flowing or does not produce as much water we cannot feed the people, " How will we grow the food he ask". He explained the rivers decline would be swift
If any one thinks i am making this up i saw it last week at the end of the Chanel 10 years during the day.

So you see you people out there just do not read about things that are happening very happy to live for today and not tomorrow.
I love my grandchildren so much that i am happy to make sacrifices so they can enjoy our live style and even better. ARE YOU???????
Neil
# Neil
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:30 AM
Malcolm, I appreciate it that you told us what you planned before the election and then tried your best to keep your word.

It is a shame that the weasels and liars seem to have come out of their nests.

Mr Abbott has a poor record when it comes to telling the truth.

Sue Penrose
# Sue Penrose
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:33 AM
Malcolm,

I used to acutally like you but not anymore. You have shown yourself to be arrogant and bitter. You should not denigrate your fellow party members, it is not done. They should expel you from the party for your biased comments. The Australian people do not want a great new big tax on everything. There are other ways to cut emisssions - like setting limits and fining the big polluters is one way.

Tony Abbot is like a breath of fresh air. Finally an opposition leader who will make the government accountable.
worried grandma
# worried grandma
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:34 AM
that should have been chanel 10 NEW at lunch time.
Ralph
# Ralph
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:39 AM
Now this is some of the man I'd hoped to see when he first took the job. Malcolm, if you'd played to your strengths and taken on the government in a similar fashion you might be in a whole different place. Frankly your stint as leader was characterised by feeble attempts at playing politician with opportunistic statements that would have insulted the intelligence of a compost bin. What or who dissuaded you from applying your intellect to the government? God knows we need rational politicans with backbone who are prepared to make a case. I wish you well.
dbeyat
# dbeyat
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:43 AM
You've been infected by the global warming religion that relies on faith over science.

There is no proof whatsoever that carbon dioxide has any significant effect on climate, either now or in Earth's history. And there is no proof that a tax on emissions will do anything to reduce CO2. What it will do is create opportunities for the wealthy to profit while the average Joe pays. We already have instances of fraud in emission trading schemes overseas.

Don't wait till the next election! Resign now and go back to the world of high finance before you do any more damage to the Liberal Party.
Chad
# Chad
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:46 AM
Malcolm, when are you going to ditch those Libs and run as an independant, or begin a new force in politics? As a swinging Labor-Independant voter, I like your position. The current leader of the Liberal party seems to have totally misunderstood the electorate's feeling on climate change, haven't they done any 'market research' on the public and climate change? Are we the only ones who think they are heading for political suicide?

Families are talking about it, kids are doing school reports and projects on it, Uni students are debating it, the voters of tomorrow are the only ones who are taking the time to get educated on this serious issue.

I hope you keep the pressure on emissions and climate change, God knows we need you right now!
Don
# Don
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:57 AM
Go Malcolm!

You have strong principles and great ability. Ignore your detractors.

The liberal party has lost the plot as it lurches to the right with Abbot, Minchin, Bernadi and Co. You should set up a new political party for progressive's. I would join you in a heart beat.
David
# David
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:59 AM
Hi Malcome,

your time is past, carping from the back bench will not return you to the leadership! move on, leave the party and get a life.
Robert
# Robert
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:02 AM
Well done Malcolm. You are showing your true leadership. Many of us were feeling that you were for a long time just being a figurehead of an unruly party giving their viewpoint and not your own. Now you are standing by your beliefs. People will be drawn to you as a result. Your electorate will stand by you.
Let Tony Abbott go down in history as the man with the worst defeat of a political party in history at the next election. The remains will be begging you to come back to lead them and you will be a winner at the following election. People will follow you.
Stick with the small l liberal way and let the public see the conservatives for what they are. They do not want progress, they are sceptical on everything, they want to return to the past in morals and attitudes. Conservatives are out of touch and the best example is Climate Change. The other of course is having a Republic.
Tony "Wingnut" Abbott is confused on many issues and has many positions on most things, torn between his religion and commonsense. For instance, he is a Catholic who strongly supports the Queen who is the head of the Anglican Church!
Labor can easily win the next election just by showing the public what the real Tony Abbott is like. Then it will be your time again.
Stefan
# Stefan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:03 AM
Malcolm,

Good intention, I agree with most of what you say, but not so good results. I'm single, lib voter currently from Sydney (might run to Europe if the situation here does not improve and higher income singles get taxed like there's no tomorrow). I am looking for leader/party who supports small business, supports policies for individuals to be able to take care of themselves, everyone saving for their own retirement, pay our own health bills, decide how to use money best to improve our standard of living and probably do something for the environment. That means I don't want to get taxed again because frankly a can't work more hours to increase my pay to be able to support government with 30%+ taxes. I would like to see policy that separates ETS from helping environment. I understand that there's a cost for everything. But as today Kevin announced at some place around the world or other, I'm pretty sure it wasn't in Australia, he plans to tax working singles/couples and give the money to industries and unemployed. This is not acceptable. It does not solve anything (well he did not mentioned ever that this money will be used for environment - I'm pretty sure he mentioned that polluters get exemptions, taxes from singles go to unemployed and industries ... so I'm not quite clear on what will this new tax solve and how it actually is related to environment - money from working to unemployed - care to ask Kevin for some answers?). What we want to see is support for solar systems, hybrid cars, rain water tanks for gardens, greener houses taking up less energy/water and so on. This is where I will be putting my money once I manage to save some after that horrific tax. This is the direction government should be heading. Not more tax because Australians just can't take it anymore. Moreover, how about single unified tax rate like 18% for everyone no matter if you earn billions or 30000 and add some benefits to low income earners and elderly support to uni students (anything that will lower university fees). Take care and please keep making noise otherwise will end up with likes of Abbott ...
The Oracle
# The Oracle
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:05 AM
Thank you for your great contribution to this important subject. Sadly your contribution has cost you your job BUT has certainly cemented your integerity and honesty with Australian voters.Mr Abott is doing what he does best and that is making alot of noise and bulldozing through and over anybody that dares to stand in his way and his political ambitions. I was never a fan of what you stood for, however I have now come to respect and admire what you stand for and tried to achieve. Your current stand is solid and an honest one and this is what the voters want to see...a person who stands his ground and fights for his beliefs. Abbott, on the other hand , changes his stance everyday according to what he thinks will achieve his self serving agenda. He is creative with the truth .Voters are not blind and will see through the likes of Abbottz and Andrews. We all hope that you will keep up this fight within your own group and not succumb to pressure to ' shut up'. There were many people who saw merit in being liberal whilst under your leadership, however these folk are now fleeing away from the liberal opportunistic self serving leaders currently at the helm.
Brad
# Brad
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:13 AM
Congratulations Malcolm,
Would be great to have another Al Gore to help the world.
Congrat's again.
Brad
Mike
# Mike
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:18 AM
Your message is sound but I fear going after Abbott may be counter-productive. Not that I disagree in any substantive way with your analysis.

If the solution to the problem was costless one would be forgiven for thinking someone in the world might have noticed before now, no? Perhaps I am misinformed and I await with baited breath upon Abbott's word.

Abbott is channelling Pauline Hanson by appealing (fomenting) fear / ignorance / anger. This is effective in the short run but will harm us in the long term. Who among the unwashed masses really understands cap and trade strategies? What will really be done with the money?

Abbott is no intellectual midget. He must know that any policy to reduce carbon output will cost someone: the greater the reduction, the greater the cost. These costs will have to be shifted onto consumers whether or not it's called a tax or not. One might assume his motives are less about his (born again) conviction that the world is wrong in its approach to global warming and more about political opportunism. Like a latter day Nero in budgie smugglers, Abbott fiddles while the world warms. Bread and circus performances will only work so long as the world ignores Australia.

Suppose Abbott were to win the next election courtesy of the magic pudding policy. Our trading partners will punish us via tarriffs if we don't come up with an acceptable strategy to reduce our carbon footprint. So instead of the tax staying in Australia it goes to our trading partners - nuts! It is better to come up with our own solution than have one dropped on us by an angry world.

A credible Liberal Party MUST have a sound carbon reduction policy or be doomed.
Carmel
# Carmel
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:23 AM
Malcom; thank you for standing up for my grandchildren and their children. You have shown courage and commitment for an issue that is bigger than all of us. Tony will fall on his own knife, nothing is surer and you will stand out as the man they should kept. It is not very often that we actually see a politician who shows such integrity; I usually compare politicians with prostitution; if the price is right any position can be taken'. I don't mean to be crude it is just that way the party machines work – After watching the first day of Copenhagen the sceptics must be feeling very lonely.
Eric B
# Eric B
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:24 AM
Dear Malcolm,

When will you learn that you live in a democracy, and that you serve the people , not the other way around. The electorate rose up and deposed you, the party merely fell into line with the concerned voters - and for that I congratulate them that they listened to the electorate. Yes, we are made up of skeptics (and not without reason - ever studied climategate, and scientistss who present alternative views?) and some who though believing in global warming have grave concerns over the ETS in its current form and its far reaching consequences (I hate the fact that as a single adult I'll be taxed , whilst couples and singles on lower incomes won't be ). You are a multi-millionaire, so I think you might just be a little out of touch with those who are paying mortgages and other bills that you can so easily afford.

Additionally, you would need to allay my concerns over any possible conflict of interest you might have with Goldman Sachs, your previous employer, who is set to be a major player in carbon trading. Al Gore also has a significant investment in green technologies - a noble cause in and of itself, but seriously comprising his stand on global warming issues.

We have seen very little debate within the . If global warming is real, is something that man contributes to significantly enough to be the cause behind it, and can do something about it - why not debate the subject in an open forum with the believers and the skeptics, and let the public decide. I see a largely left-wing media presenting a pro-global warming views and openly deriding the other side.

You are no longer the party leader, Sir. May I ask that you respectfully step down from off your high-horse and let the current incumbent lead the party in the direction which reflects the wishes of its constituents. Your continued noise on this and nother matters merely reflects on you
Robert
# Robert
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:24 AM
Likely Scenario. Double dissolution in late July 2010. Labor returned in the lower house with an increased majority but fails to gain control of the upperhouse despite 10 Liberal Senators losing their seats. Labor forced to negotiate with the Greens. An ETS is agreed with the Greens with a 15% cut until 2020 and then a 40% cut from 2020. The softly softly approach that could have come in when Malcolm Turnbull was Leader of the opposition is rejected and even tougher on major polluters than the one previously posed. Thats politics.
jim
# jim
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:26 AM
Start a party, and I'll be your first member.
Kingsley
# Kingsley
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:26 AM
IT'S AMAZING TO LISTEN TO ALL THESE BRAINWASHED IDIOT LIBERAL VOTERS WHO SUPPORT THE PARTY LINE REGARDLESS OF HOW STUPID IT IS.

You go Malcolm, I have never voted Liberal and never will but you are a man with integrity. The Liberal Party as a Bi Partisan party is dead. The new front bench will resemble a Menzies Government of 1962, crusty old men with outdated ideas.

The upside is, that this all signals at least another 2 Labor election victories.

Thanks for that Tony
jennifer
# jennifer
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:31 AM
Please go to the Labour party where you belong Malcom. You are looking and sounding quite pathetic whining about the ETS. You lost, you were a poor leader, the public did not like you, nor did half you colleagues. cheers
Tony
# Tony
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:33 AM
How sad that you wouldn't do the honorable thing and leave the party before embarking on your white-anting campaign. Disgraceful.
mike
# mike
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:35 AM
Mal, you do not listen and you do not communicate. You were being clearly told by your party members, supporters and the majority of your fellow parliamentarians that they did not want to support the ETS. You have two choices, change your policy to meet their expectations or communicate and convince us it was the right thing to do.

You did neither and now find yourself on the political scrap heap where all egotists belong. You are elected to serve the people, not your own interests and passions. The majority of core liberal supporters told you they did not want an ETS and you refused to listen. Have a good hard look at yourself, your behavior is idiotic and you have only yourself to blame.

Leave the liberal party and go do whatever, I don't care as long as you are not a member of the party.
Hamish
# Hamish
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:46 AM
Dr David Evans has 4 degrees in mathematics and physics. I quote him:

"I devoted six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian government to estimate carbon emissions from land use change and forestry (Google on "FullCAM"). When I started that job, in 1999, the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty conclusive, but since then new evidence has weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause. I am now skeptical."

As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

Malcolm, for the sake of your personal reputation, you must do a u turn. There is no shame in being wrong, but there is shame in being obstinate and cowardly. There is also shame in doing damage to the Liberal Party, and consequently, the country. Our country, your country. It wasnt built on 'crap'!
David Morrison
# David Morrison
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:47 AM
Just when I thought the world was improving the NSW Labor parliamentarians voted in Mrs Keneally as Premier, and now there are people who still want to defend Malcolm Turnbull and even suggest he may still be Liberal leader in the future. He refused to act like an opposition leader when the Government was trying to con us all and he has shown over many years that he would never be a suitable person to be Prime Minister. He has obvious strengths and abilities and should work with those to improve society, but not in politics.
Habib
# Habib
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:47 AM
Show the courage of your convictions for once and resign then join the Greens. You are a bigger disaster for the Liberal Party rhan John Hewson, Billy McMahon and Malcolm Fraser combined. The party now has a chance of winning government- under your asinine followership it was headed for electoral oblivion.
Shelley
# Shelley
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:49 AM
# Kelvin
Monday, December 07, 2009 10:48 AM
To everyone calling out Malcolm for being a rebel and speaking out of turn,

You have no ground to stand on. Where were you 2-3 weeks ago when, even 2-3 months ago, when Tuckey, Joyce, Micham et al were speaking out?

@Kelvin
You make an interesting point here.

Malcolm Turnbull I wish to congratulate you on your elevation to MAD UNCLE!
John
# John
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:54 AM
Congratulations Malcolm on your stance on ETS. Unfortunately your party seems to be currently dominated by boneheads and the flat-earth crowd at least on this issue. If you watched the 7/12/09 7.30 Report interview of prominent NASA scientist, Dr James Hansen delivering his solid and very sobering overview of the effects of global warming on the world and the likely outcome for the people of the world, the only conclusion that could be reached is that all countries of the world must act immediately. It is already too late to avoid the early effects of global warming. We are already experiencing erratic climatic events, extreme droughts, extreme floods, and unstoppable fires. Once this process gains momentum, we will soon arrive at an avalanche point where mankind will not be able reverse it. Maybe we have already passed that point.
Leah
# Leah
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:55 AM
Go Malcolm!!!

Abbott is a backward twit on a lot of issues, not just about climate change!
Bryan Wiseman
# Bryan Wiseman
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:58 AM
MT
You are a disgrace!
Do the Coalition a favour and resign, fight a by-election as an indipendent then you will have earnt the right to oppose AT who has been a loyal team member until you provoked the challenge by your despotic actions
Thank God you never had any real power, or will have outside the fortune you hope to make through carbon trading
The public have got your measure - so sit down and shut up!
Fair Go
# Fair Go
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:02 AM
Malcolm,

You fluffed the opportunity, let alone moral imperative, to delay the ETS vote until after the post-Copenhagen landscape is clear and thereby maintain some semblance of party unity while retaining leadership. Previously you fluffed the opportunity to use the Grech affair to party advantage by insisting on your own "glory" rather than sending in the "attack dogs" so you could maintain dignity (and avoid any unitended fallout). Prior to that you fluffed the opportunity presented by the republic referendum by insisting on a model that was clearly at odds with what Australians want.

If you're so confident that your political views are the way to go you should put your money where your mouth is and start your own "wet liberal" party. You have the financial resources, but do you have the courage of your convictions? If you're not going to do that, then you should have the decency to move to the cross benches.

BTW Was the Howard policy *really* to go it alone regardless of whether the rest of the world acted?
Rev Truth
# Rev Truth
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:03 AM
Mal's a crook up to his balls in Goldman Sachs dirty money.
Billions are going to go into the kitty and GS (the criminal cartel who bankrolled Obama's 800 million presidential campaign will manage it internationally.

Remember how we were conned into the 'War on Terror?' The enemy that could never be defined and could be fought any place any time for any reason? Well, the currency for that has ended as the truth is out on that scam. Now it's the war on climate change. Similar because no one can define/agree on it.

Who stands to gain?

Murdoch
Arms manufacturers
GUNNS
Goldman Sachs
The ex Chairman of Goldman Sachs...

Yes.... Mal Turnbull. To the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

If you want the truth read Ben's post on this page 12.23 this morning.

Thanks Ben You've nailed Mal's filthy hide to the wall.

Your days of flying under the radar are over Mal, you sleazy, smiling bankster.

You're a traitor to this country and this planet.

May you ache behind your smiling face.









Magnus Heimdall
# Magnus Heimdall
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:03 AM
I've followed your career, dating back to the Wright affair, with some interest and I've always considered you an, intelligent, honest, upright individual who was something of a gentleman. But I must say that your petulant behaviour over the last few days does you little credit.

I sincerely hope that you will manage to overcome the disappointment and bitterness you are presently experiencing - they are very destructive emotions you know - and I hope to see some more considered and rational responses from you in the near future.

As to global warming and the human influence - if, indeed, it is occurring and if the human contribution is that marked - I am something of an agnostic. I am very concerned at the mass of contradictory information that is being disseminated and, as a logical thinker, I rather mistrust those who press their views too hard. Moreover, I was appalled at the indecent rush to introduce a carbon trading scheme, particularly as it would have had little, if any effect on the world's climate.
Best wishes,
Magnus Heimdall
tonys
# tonys
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:06 AM
i believe in CC....SHOWS YOU TO AN IGNORANT

MMCC=Science fiction story based on faulty Modelling
and disproven after 30 years of raw empirical evidence
which clearly says "it ain't happening"\
So MT -its "i believe in MMCC"..

2)consensus is anitscience-not a popularity concept
let the data speak(without distortion)

you are willfully ignorant to the truth

you are unfit to be a leader

you are a dangerous deluded politician
you would destroy Oz for the sake of a prob that does not exist
to all those who support MT-wake up-enviro concerns are real
but MMCC/AGW is a false truth-----MT GROW A BRAIN
Angela
# Angela
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:09 AM
Arent you glad that you have so much support from the Labor party acolytes.

You were (and are) wrong on the Man Made climate change hypothesis - the science is shonky and you were prepared to sell out Australia's children and grandchildren for Rudd's messianic ego. An emissions taxing scheme will have little or nothing to do with any climactic changes but what Australia needs more than anything is a strategic plan for dealing with the impact of a naturally changing climate not an irrevocable tax on exhalations! One has to think that you had a pecuniary ulterior motive.

Your spiteful petulance in defeat is unbecoming - you like to maintain your image as a statesman - not happening now. Badly done, Malcolm, Badly done!
Joe Raftery
# Joe Raftery
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:10 AM
Please, when you cross the floor in February, take everything with you. It's where you have always belonged.
Ben Dover
# Ben Dover
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:13 AM
Get wise people. Mal's not stupid or deluded. He's cunning as a rat and stands to gain millions from a Goldman Sachs (ex chairman Mal) managed ETScam.

This is happening world wide. This is beyond politics.

Once again good people are being skinned by the banking cartels.

The only thing that will fix this is a people powered revolution. Knowledge up people. This is a war against an enemy who believe themselves to be impervious. Lives and livelihoods are at stake.

Better to live on your feet than die on your knees.




Tony
# Tony
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:15 AM
Malcolm, I hate to say this, but there is no point in attacking Abbott (or indeed the Liberal Party) for changing his / their position on the ETS - since you were the one who changed your position first. You initially persuasively argued to delay ANY action on the ETS before Copenhagen (and the party supported you) - and then, midstream, you unilaterally proceeded to support Rudd to do exactly the oppositie - why would you change your clearly stated position ? especially to help Rudd impose a new tax. Now you have divided the Liberal Party and destroyed your own leadership as well as now engaging in low brow debate (abuse?) over something which was entirely your creation. Again why?
TonyD
# TonyD
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:16 AM
Hello Malcolm,

I had a fairly healthy level of regard for you when you first took over the leadership of the Liberal Party. I had my reservations but was more than happy to give you a go. Unfortunately you have proven to be a bigger disappointment than Fraser and Hewson combined.
How dare you join a conservative political party when you don't subscribe to the ideals of conservatism. Your leadership ended the way it should have - you being thrown out by fair dinkum conservatives who joined a party that represented their views, and not as a means to power.
If you have any honour left at all you will resign from the Liberal Party immediately.
Josh
# Josh
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:19 AM
You are an arrogant egotistical fool. Any respect the Australian community once had for you has now evaporated.

Have you no dignity, you will be remembered only as someone who blew their leadership, much like Latham.
Jim Dirou
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:19 AM
Come on Malcolm this is a bit rich, you had plenty of time and airplay to state your views and we were all in no doubt where you stood on the issue of ETS.
What you have yet failed to acknowledge is that the secret Lib party ballot clearly indicated that the stand against an ETS gained the support of around two thirds of your colleagues and that as leader, you were clearly not aware of this or simply chose to ignore it - and secondly, opposition to an ETS does not automatically label someone as being a climate change skeptic just the same as opposingthe Iraq war did not automatically brand someone as being unpatriotic.
Two thirds of your Lib party colleagues are against an ETS and in a NINEMSN poll over the weekend over 94% of some 80,000 respondents agreed that they do not understand the ETS - this clearly indicates that neither yourself or Kevin 07 has managed to managed to successfully sell the argument or explain it in understandable terms to the public at large.
We all agree that there needs to be action on climate change but you simply failed to make a convincing argument for your point of view.
I never liked John Howard and was glad to vote Labour to get rid of him and I have never really liked Tony Abbott but like him or loathe him he has now given me a reason to vote Liberal again and I am thankful that we can now have a sensible debate on the merits or otherwise of an ETS that is being imposed upon us - I agree that Tony may muck it all up but at least he is providing us with the chance to look more closely at all options and to each make up our own minds....he is providing us with a choice.
Get over it Malcolm, you had your chance and we all heard you loud and clear - it's just that most of your party don't agree with you and I suspect most of the voting public as well....time will tell.
Dickie
# Dickie
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:19 AM
Hi Malcolm,
A quick question which I'm sure you will be able to answer. I earn about $100k per annum have 2 kids, 2 cars, a mortage. 1 child with autism which requires special needs assistance. I work way more than 40 hours a week. We have little time or money for ourselves. How much per month or per annum will the negotiated ETS cost our family?? I cant find the answer on your web site or Labor's web site. The newspapers won't say etc. Yet you argue that it will protect my kids and their Grand kids? Why wont someone tell me how much it will cost me before you create the law?? Surely that is your duty.
Daniel Cox
# Daniel Cox
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:20 AM
Congratulations Mr. Turnbull on having the moral courage to demonstrate to me that you are like Mark Latham, clearly unworthy of leadership.

Regards,

Daniel.
Peter M
# Peter M
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:27 AM
The Climategate emails have established there is no scientific consensus. The Climategate fortran code shows how we have all been duped. Malcolm there is no excuse for not reading the emails and understanding the code. It is not that hard.
David
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:33 AM
Well Done, Mr. Turnbull.
I am not usually a Liberal voter but you are to be congratulated for this stance. There are some things that are too important for politicking. Sometimes the Parties have to act in the National/Global interest. Actually stand up and lead and use all the intelligence they can muster to articulate the problems and solutions to the electorate in general.
Again, well done and keep it up.
DG
# DG
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:36 AM
I admire you courage and conviction in standing by what you believe in, which is more than can be said for many others in politics.

You were the best chance of me voting for the liberal party.

Too bad.

Pat
# Pat
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:38 AM
Daniel Cox, I agree.
Malcolm Turnbull, you are the liberals own Mark Latham,
Jazza
# Jazza
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:39 AM
Many of your colleagues gave you credit for some integrity
Wonder how they feel now you are shown up as a Latham-lite?

Two points for you Mr Turnbull.
Climategate(shows how the scam was conducted)and no need for a CO2 Protected Rorters Scam
Copenhagen--do you agree Rudd should sign away Australia's sovereignty too?

Finally ,as someone who was a professional leader of a large team, and shuders at your actions now--in some disgust , I ask

Would you expect Tony Abbott to be taking the limelight to white ant you if YOU had won the ballot by the one vote difference--and if so, how would you deal with him?
Hamish
# Hamish
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:40 AM
It's time to go Malcolm. You have completely failed.
David in Newtown
# David in Newtown
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:42 AM
You had your turn, been found wanting and now the party has spoken. You're an arrogant man, Mr Turnbull, and surprisingly bitter. As so often happens in politics, character will out.

Your natural home is the Labor party. With your talents you'd make a great backbencher.
keg
# keg
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:43 AM
I can't believe you lot , just totally consume your own, Malcolm is the only thing apart form Costello and some very good back benchers you have going for you.

Your new leader has "resonable people skills" fantastic he can use them for the myriad of "diplomatic" decisions he will need to make.

As he is diplomatically telling people in foreign countries that have wide spread of aids don't use contraception, Oh and don't abort either and why we are at it make sure those pesky gay relationships are allowed to be made legal either.

Some peoples views here , are "olde worlde" stuff makes me so sad, yes we might need to pay more tax, to help save the planet and god forbid Australia taking the lead on anything...

Check this for consistency, your against spending so much money, for a stimulus, now your against paying a tax to get some of it back..

What do you actually stand FOR?

Lance
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:43 AM
Mate, your next move would be to cross the floor permanently and join your close Mates in the ALP. I expect that to happen or not contest your Wentworth at next election. You have lost the plot Mate and it's only a matter of time until your kicked out of the Liberal Party! watch your back and be very careful!
jim
# jim
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:45 AM
Go away Malcolm. You had your chance and you blew it. Practice what you preach warming believer! Give me some of your wealth and then feel free to tax me higher rates for a religious belief. Act with some class.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:48 AM
Hey Malcolm, you really should give up your dreams of global governance and wealth redistribution by way of the global warming scam.

Did they indoctrinate you with this garbage at Goldman Sachs?

Why don't you just shut up, stop annoying the true Liberals, resign and join your first preference, the Labor party!

Nobody's interested in your outbursts!

Better still just go a away and disappear into a black hole.

No regards.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:52 AM
A warning for true Liberals

Watch out for Turnbull, it looks as if he's scheming to push his adopted baby, the Emissions Tax Swindle through in February!

Remember, he's an ex Goldman Sachs man and his first preference was to join the Labor party.

That could explain a lot about his hotheaded desire to push through Rudd's Emissions Tax Swindle.

JustAThought
# JustAThought
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:53 AM
Three questions the Australian public need to ask:
1. Where does the money come from?
2. Where will it go?
3. What will it actually achieve?

Answers are pretty simple - us, others and absolutely nothing (unless "a consensus" counts as "something").

Malcolm, if you are an open minded, fair, reasonable and logical person, you won't be afraid to go and listen to sceptical scientists in detail or read for example Ian Plimer's book. Science works and advances by putting your beliefs to the test, encouraging more and more rigorous testing to refine your hypothesis.

Until you can put your beliefs to the test and examine contrary science in great detail, your dogmatic nature, ultimately your downfall, merely mimics the dogmatic nature of other warming believers who will have to address the same cognitive dissonance when the facts contradict their beliefs.

Leave dogma to religions.
Robert
# Robert
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:55 AM
Please Malcolm,
Raise yourself to a higher level and let Tony lead the party without distractions. Please be gracious.
Kind regards,
Brett
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:56 AM
I have time to respond today after being retrenched due to the mismanagement of the NSSP program. I would like to say thank you for being brave enough enough pair of boots to stand up for the environment. Sadly we are a greedy lot, which is why we have got ourselves into the financial and environmental mess we find ourselves in. Global warming or not we should not spoil the air we breath or the water we drink and we need to pay for our excess. Change may take a generation but it has to start now. Ah those employment doomsdayers - new industries will spring up because of the ETS which I'm sure will more than offset those that are lost.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:59 AM
Typical of a millionaire.

Any increase in costs from KRudd's Emissions Tax Swindle wion't hurt you in the slightest.

That's why you're willing to impose a huge new tax on the populace based on the dodgy junk science of the global warming scam.

I'm alright Jack eh?

No regards
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:59 AM
# Dickie
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:19 AM
Hi Malcolm,
A quick question which I'm sure you will be able to answer. I earn about $100k per annum have 2 kids, 2 cars, a mortage. 1 child with autism which requires special needs assistance. I work way more than 40 hours a week. We have little time or money for ourselves. How much per month or per annum will the negotiated ETS cost our family?? I cant find the answer on your web site or Labor's web site. The newspapers won't say etc. Yet you argue that it will protect my kids and their Grand kids? Why wont someone tell me how much it will cost me before you create the law?? Surely that is your duty.

DICKIE -

THIS IS WHAT TONY ABBOTT WILL GIVE YOU - ANSWERS TO WHAT AN ETS IS GOING TO COST THE ORDINARY AVERAGE JOE....AND THAT IS JUST THE BEGINNING. THE U(united) N(nothing) HAS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY IN THEIR SIGHTS AS WELL. NOT CONTENT TO MAKE YOU PAY AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE YOU PAY AT THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL BY FORCING WESTERN NATIONS TO HAND OVER 0.7% OF GDP TO THIRD WORD COUNTRIES. THAT EQUATES TO 7 BILLION A YEAR..........EVERY YEAR! IF THIS HAPPENS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WILL HAVE TO MAKE DO WITH LESS. LESS INFRASTRUCTURE, LESS SERVICES AND LESS PUBLIC SERVENTS (LIKE TEACHERS, NURSES AND POLICE) ......AND WONDER BOY KRUDD WANTS A BIGGER AUSTRALIA, BRINGING IN ANOTHER 15 MILLION PEOPLE BY 2030! AUSTRALIA WAS NEVER INTENDED TO SUPPORT SUCH A POPULATION. IT HAPPENS TO BE THE MOST ARID COUNTRY ON THE PLANET - AS IT IS WE HAVE ALREADY DESTROYED THE MURRY DARLING SYSTEM AND THE NEARLY THE RIVERENA TOO. SCIENTISTS HAVE TOLD SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS THAT AUSTRALIA CAN ONLY SUPPORT 25-30 MILLION TOPS.........I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THESE POLITICAL TOOLS ARE SMOKING !!!
Stewart
# Stewart
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:01 PM
Please Malcolm, stop this petulant, destructive behaviour. Climate/global warming is a political movemment, not an environmental one. Don't you understand politics? Cheers. Stewart.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:02 PM
Hey Brett.

I have news fo you.

Carbon dioxide, one of the basic building blocks of life, is not a pollutant, it is PLANT FOOD.

We need more not less.

Ely
# Ely
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:05 PM
It's appalling how many people here can't spell, have no grammar skills or have no notion of how to use punctuation. If you don't know the spelling of the word "flaws" and write "floors" instead don't expect me to listen to anything you have to say about "The climate change religion", "The New World Order" or "Reds under the bed". If you want to start trying to convince people of the validity of the so called "Climategate scandal" then learn to spell first! Your general lack of intelligence says more about you than any link you care to regurgitate as "proof"!

Go Malcolm!!!
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:08 PM
Hey Dickie,
NOTHING NEW ON THE MURRAY!

It’s DÉJÀ VU On The Murray-Darling Basin Not Climate Change
River has seen worse drought in 1000 years
Asa Wahlquist
November 11 2006


http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20737980-421,00.html
Deb
# Deb
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:10 PM
Malcolm check out The Punch.
Bernardi led a campaigne with the radical religious fringe to oust you and the ETS.
Bernardi told these radical groups to deluge their MP's with emails, letters & phone calls. The Punch has a sample letter distributed to these groups telling what to do & say.
It was not a core support revolt at all but a US style grassroots storm orchestrated by Bernardi.
Core supporters are hardly going to dissent against their party when that party took that policy to the last election.
david
# david
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:10 PM
Why is it that when Minchin, Abbott, Abetz et al were bucking the party line, some people on this blog found it acceptable. Now that Malcom gives a bit back you start to get abusive? The fact is that Minchin is an out and out thug and bully boy, determined to get his own way at any cost. Some in Labor saw Latham as the new messiah, as some Lib's now see Abbott. Both groups are delusional. Abbott is a disaster and Labor will grill him and his master Minchin slowly, leading to an inevitable political bloodbath in August 2010.
DM of Perth
# DM of Perth
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:10 PM
Dear Mr Turnbull, you are living proof that money cannot buy class.
Your behaviour before and since losing the leadership of the Libs
is a disgrace. You have vindicated every doubt we had about you.
Please stop making an ass of yourself before it is too late. The
Australian public will never take you seriously again. You will be
seen as just another disgruntled member of the Whining Losers
Club along with Mark Latham, John Hewson and Malcolm Fraser.
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:14 PM
Keepin` it real - If we were to totally shut Australia overnight - China would make up for it within 16 weeks!!
denese
# denese
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:20 PM
I cannot believe the vitriol that is going on here
it has nothing to do with the Liberal party it has to do with
saving this earth,
From its self.
if you where told we where going to be invaded some time soon you would be crying out for something to stop the invader.

Well the invader is us and what we have done as humans to our home earth.
. Letting the smoke from factories go in to the atmosphere and also the rivers etc.
This earth is ours to respect and look after just like our bodies.

This is nothing to do with politics or the liberals its to do with the survival of man.
I read with interest a piece by worried grandma perhaps you all should.


Get over it Mr. Turnbull is not playing politics here he is telling you what is what.
Wyndham Dix
# Wyndham Dix
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:24 PM
I comfort myself in the knowledge that the rising tide of scepticism will eventually lift all boats.

The IPCC is predicated on the assumption that human-induced climate change is real. For 20 years or more it has distorted science to bolster its case.

When the world awakens from its torpor and the IPCC is irredeemably discredited, let us go back to square one and ask the questions: "What drives climate change?" and "What can we do about these drivers?" Then, assuming there ARE things we can do (an heroic assumption perhaps) let governments abandon their political correctness and objectively answer the question, and explain to the people: "What, if anything, do we need to do and at what cost?"

Let us also clearly distinguish between (1) climate change per se, and (2) efficient use of resources at our disposal and careful disposal of waste on the land, and in the sea and air. This in itself might raise disturbing questions about energy-hungry desalination plants compared with building more dams to harness water flows.

Above all else, let us not fall into the trap of creating financial instruments that allow us to trade away responsibilities to clean up our own backyard and in the process allow those driven by money to enrich themselves still further.
Deborah
# Deborah
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:25 PM

Malcolm, please go join the Labor Party...you know you want to!
Australia needs an Opposition, not a bunch of Rudd rats.
You cannot give the loyalty you demanded when you were leader
and have disgraced yourself beyond belief.
Please leave.
Gar
# Gar
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:27 PM
Rat
Join the Labor Party now you make a good running mate for Rudd .
Made me sick to see you on TV standing in the background with Rudd and the big smug smile on your face as he spoke. Im sure he will give you a job if you ask you certainly are no liberal politician.
And you certainly do not represent any liberal voters I know.
Chad Swanson
# Chad Swanson
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:31 PM
Very poor behaviour here. When you are in a team, you can argue your case passionately behind closed doors, but ultimately, you need to abide by the direction the team decides to go. Peter Garret sets the example.

Since you have never liked what the Liberals stood for, you should have joined the Greens.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:31 PM
To all alarmist whackos ....

STOP BREATHING NOW.

You're killing the world with that filthy CO2!


Tony
# Tony
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:35 PM
Malcolm,
Until you decided to talk for your party without open debate and ram the ETS through you had my full support. Now it`s time for you to support the majority in the party and stop being petulant like a sulking child.
Climate change is upon us as it has been for millions of years before and will be into the future. Does carbon contribute to this and wiil a ETS scheme help or just make the creators of such a scheme very wealthy? Carbon levels are at historicaly low levels (based on studies I have read) Carbon levels actualy increase AFTER global warming as the sea warms and releases Carbon Dioxide into the atmosphere which it has sequestered during cooler periods. Plant life thrives in higher Carbon Dioxide enviroments (a fact).
Are these studies accurate? I do not know ..... there are to many unanswered questions to rush blindly into a ETS scheme.
Doug OC
# Doug OC
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:38 PM
Dear Malcolm,
I think you have been most honourable and I found your conviction on this issue extremely pleasing... Thankyou for this post.. Whilst other ministers will come and go I feel you have retained a dignity that Abbott and Minchin could never achieve let alone understand..
Mikhail
# Mikhail
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:39 PM
Sorry, mate - but you are worse than Latham - at least he quit first, and then let it rip... You are an egoist and a fool - what you are saying loud and clear, that if this party is not led by you, it is not worth voting for. Pathetic....
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:41 PM
Hey Malcolm, even your alarmist friend Flannery admits to global cooling over the last ten years, thus invalidating the CO2-will-destroy-the-planet hypothesis.

You obviously have ulterior motives in pushing KRudds Emissions Tax Swindle and the global warming scam.

Maybe global governance and global taxes eventually, eh?

This wouldn't hurt a millionaire like you but, would it?

To quote your friend .....

“So when the computer modelling and the real world data disagree you’ve got a very interesting problem . . . Sure for the last 10 years we’ve gone through a slight cooling trend.”

No Regards
John Cox
# John Cox
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:41 PM
No. Nay. Never, to an ETS.
You are out of your depth, going against the party and its supporters.
Walk across the floor, Malcolm and vote with Kevin. You have lost all credibility in my eyes.
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:45 PM
It's a sad day in human history when one of the basic building blocks of
life is declared to be life-threatening pollution by the EPA in the US!

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

And you Malcolm are falling for this scam!
worried grandma
# worried grandma
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:47 PM
I believe Mr. flannery refuted that a couple of days ago.
James
# James
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:48 PM
Malcolm Turnbull a man of loyalty and conviction.

Loyalty to Goldman Sachs and a conviction that he is right and he will white-ant anybody who disagrees with him. What a shameful act.

Join John Hewson as a blight on former members of the Liberals.



Paul Evans
# Paul Evans
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:51 PM
Malcolm 'Latham' Turnbull. Everybody is laughing at you MT
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:52 PM
Hey Malcolm,
if KRudd's Emisssions Tax Swindle ever sees the light of day I will be looking forward to seeing you splurge ALL of your millions in buying up indulgences ... er, carbon credits.

All to "save" the planet of course!

Will you promise to do that?

I hope to see you broke and begging in the streets after spending all of your money.

But at least you would be happy in the knowledge that you did your bit to "save" the planet!
David Turnbull
# David Turnbull
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:53 PM
Malcolm,

Seriously, do you never learn? You screwed the republican movement with your "my way or the highway" attitutde. You've now done it to the Liberal Party.

You personally tried to pull Bernadi into line over blog comments (and sacked him) as well as your less than supportive comments on Joyce and Tuckey. How about you live by the rules you set for everyone else? Be graceful in defeat. There was a secret ballot on the ETS and it was COMPREHENSIVELY defeated. In fact, you resemble more a Labour leader than a Liberal one in this respect. If you don't like difference opinions, go join the labour party where only one view is allowed. You cetainly agreed with Rudd enough to make this not that hard for you.

I was one who emailed my MHR telling him I would not vote liberal (for the fist time ever) while you where leader of the party. This had nothing to do with my disagreement of you stance on the ETS and AGW. Difference of opinion is what makes the liberal party strong.

Why did I send this message:
1. When asked if you supported the draft of the Copenhagen Treaty - it was clear you hadn't read it, nor been breifed on it by those who had.
2. Not once did you attempt to explian the costs of the ETS in terms the average person could understand. Simple things like the report from NSW saying electricity costs would increase 30%. Why could you not explain that then explain why you thought the impost was justified?
3. Your perofrmance from a supposed Lawyer on Utegate was that of a primary school child.
4. Your pale shadow of Rudd on most issues would have consigned the federal party to the same position as say the Victorian party under Ted. You will not win by outflanking Labour on the left.

Ufortunately for you, this sour grapes of yours is only going to achieve nothing but putting you in the same group as Keating, Latham and Fraser. I don't like you much Malcolm - but you are better than that. Suck it up pricess and get back on the horse.
Carl Fowler
# Carl Fowler
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:54 PM
It seems that Andrew Bolt is being employed to paint Mr. Turnbull as insane:

"Stand by for more payback from a man who seems unbalanced by one more rejection too many - by his mother, by Kerry Packer, by his fellow republicans and the anti-republic voters, and now by the Liberals. Those who still like him should urge him to keep his silence until he regains his balance, and before he cements his reputation as a megalomaniac never to be trusted again"

That's almost libel.
BOB BROWN
# BOB BROWN
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:55 PM
Would Mr Abbott stand in the garage with the car running, and deny that climate change is not the result of human activity?
Our planet is one big garage. The fumes do not get fanned out into the universe.Even Wilson Tuckey knows that.
Mr Turnbull,Thankyou.Unlike Abbott and co ,you ve held fast under great pressure and temptation.You are right to stand your ground so rejoice that the likes of Abbott,Minchin and the other sheep have chosen to leave your team,and by the time your team gets 'back up' you'll have another crack at it.Thankyou and stand tall! I am sure you have the support of intelligent and loyal Australians( from all walks)
Lachlan
# Lachlan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:56 PM
Malcolm,

pull your head in you ARROGANT man. You are surely showing your true character. People don't like bad losers. You are doing more damage to youself in the public eye than you are obviously trying to do to the Lib Party. No matter what anyone thinks of Abbott all I can say is thank God he got in. I do not want to be paying another tax and especially one that is pointless. A tax on atmosphere. What a joke. You people and your tax pushing supporters should be ashamed of yourselves
Theresa
# Theresa
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:56 PM


Mr Turnbull,

What an enormous amount of disappointment in your behaviour since the new Lib leaders election! But evidence does reveal a bruised ego is not conducive to loyalty, humility or self control...

However, a man of integrity has the power to redeem one's self through a sincere and humble apology... One, we might all agree, your party deserves!
Bill
# Bill
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:59 PM
Mal's been exposed as a money grubbing, Goldman Sachsy little crook. Pure and simple.

To try and con the Australian people like this for money... check his head for horns.


Adam
# Adam
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:59 PM
Please resign from the liberal party. you are not a liberal so why keep up the charade, just go independent or join the labor party already.

Yes the current team is not perfect, neither was yours but the last thing we need is another Malcolm Frasier type sitting on the nations shoulder like a parrot. That is a somewhat lenient comparison as a parrot doesn't attempt to subjugate its host, you are more like a cancer.
GoodbyeKevin
# GoodbyeKevin
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:06 PM
Malcolm,

I cannot begin to describe to you, the relief my wife and I felt when we learned that you had lost the leadership the other day.

AT LAST we can have someone voicing OUR frustration at the present government, and their maddening arrogance. If I have to hear Rudd or Wong insult me again by calling me a 'denier', I swear I'm going to lose it. Within hours of rolling you, Tony Abbott had landed a couple of decent hits on Rudd, yet in the many months prior, you managed to look like a sub branch of the Labor party. For the first time in ages, Rudd is looking unsettled and rattled; All thanks to Tony Abbott.

He continues to land some terrific hits, yet you snipe from the back further convincing people like me of your utter unsuitability for public office in ANY poloitical party, let alone the Liberals.

Climate change is a game changer mate, and you have seriously mis-read the sentiment in the general electorate on this issue. Australians have a great bulls_it detector, and I can tell you that mine goes off the scale whenever I see Rudd/Wong talk down to me on about climate change. I have a fairly decent grip on the scientific method, and this whole thing is clearly politics, not science.

Mark this one in your diary Malcolm, "The ETS will be the Labor party's Workchoices" - never underestimate the people's ability to see through the political agenda, and revolt.

Incidently, your behaviour in the last two days is nothing short of disgraceful. In attacking your colleagues in such an uncalled-for manner, you have diminished yourself immensely.

Give it away mate.
Joe
# Joe
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:09 PM
Come on Turnbull. Move on. You are only making a fool of yourself. Your political career is over.
Bryan
# Bryan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:11 PM
Oh Dear, little boy in the schoolyard pissed that he has been passed over. It is not worthy of someone whom has held such a lofty position in Australia; and certainly smacks of arrogance and ego. You should have taken the behaoviour of some of your predecessors in how to move on. Obviously the stories re you initially wanting to be a labor politician were right. Maybe you were a plant/sleeper - to come out once you were in position to wreak havoc. Whichever, please do everyone a favour and go back to the legal profession - your traits are a fit with most people's understanding of solicitors/barristers. Good riddance wherever you go
Jacob
# Jacob
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:12 PM
In the end, nobody is important. Not Abbot, or Rudd or Obama, or the people who bully and rant above. The reality of the matter of fact is that in 100 years the world will look different from how we know it, just as the world looked different 100 years ago. Inventions will come and go, and new energyforms will be implemented, when cheaper options become available. Because that is what is important: MONEY.
John M
# John M
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:12 PM
Long term ETS and cap is clearly the way to go so as to cause transnational polluting capitalist corporate entities to alter their behavior; problem is, they will just pass on the additional costs to the most-vulnerable consumer. Solution is, get the consumers to alter their behavior; problem is, they are too acquisitive and materialistic. Solution is, tax rebates; they are non-regressive and do, in fact, change behavior; witness the rebate for water-efficient appliances. This then produces a downward pressure on prices and more efficient and less polluting competition on the part of the capitalists. Low-energy light bulbs sounded pathetic at the time, but look at the widespread adoption in advanced economies. Keep chipping away at the edges, Malcolm...it may (should) ultimately involve the establishment of a new (cross-border) centre-left political party. Hundreds of thousands of us ( in many advanced nation-states ) want this now! Many of us are existing members of the (failing) political parties.
"Down with the establishment" was one of the crowd cries at the reading of the Independence Proclamation at Philadelphia on July 4, 1776! Western nationals need to rethink the game of economic growth at all costs; those in developing nations need to rethink their truly desired outcomes.
allan
# allan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:13 PM
turnbull you lost, Mr Tony Abbott won. Suck it up you repulsive, spoilt little brat.
You will soon learn to respect Mr Tony Abbott. He is YOUR leader. Get used to it turnbull. Leadership and dictatorship are 2 different things. Wipe away those tears and apoligise to your leader, your boss, your superior, Mr Tony Abbott.
scio
# scio
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:24 PM
Well done Tony Abbott – you have demonstrated your environmentally responsible credentials. No matter how worn out & apparently useless an article is it still has a potential for recycling in some form or another - Bronwyn Bishop is now seniors spokesperson
JS
# JS
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:25 PM
For Ely. I'm a lot less concerned about poor spelling (which may only be typos in any event) than I am by outright lies and deceptions. Somebody named Nadia Bracks above cited a poll claiming wide support for an ETS. She didn't bother to add that the poll was from last September.

How about citing the Galaxy poll taken right before Abbott was selected as leader? You know, the one which said that more than 80% of Australians said they didn't know enough about the proposed ETS and 90% wanted it delayed.

I'll take bad spelling over bad lying any day.

And Malcolm, you were a dreadful leader. There are dozens of areas where Rudd has failed dismally, and you hardly said a word. And there's no reason to push through any legislation with such indecent haste. Makes one wonder if you don't have other motives.

Time to get lost.
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:38 PM
Keepin` it real - Of course NO ONE has taken into account the other equation in all this - POPULATION CONTROL! Since WW2 the planet's populaiton has TREBLED! Clearly humanity has become the plague apon this earth. At the rate we are going we'll be like the people of Easter Island......literally eating ourselves out of house and home. So why haven't the Climate Change guru's adressed this looming catastrope?????? Mmmmmmmm....maybe bacause there's no POLITICAL PRESTIGE OR MONEY in it!
b milligan
# b milligan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:39 PM
Hi Mal,

You should stop pretending the ETS will do anything to curb climate change. l. An ETS is just a tax, which means emissions wont be cut, they will just cost more. And with YOUR amendments, the biggest polluters can keep polluting anyway.

I am personally offended by yours and Rudd's argument of "If you're against THIS ETS you are a climate sceptic", because that is rubbish. Stop hijacking the debate by framing it as such.

I believe climate change is happening and LOTS needs to be done, but I think this ETS is a sham, as is the whole notion of 'Emissions Trading'.

Why don't you actually listen to what Abbott has to say on the policy and then criticise. You are criticising something that does not yet exist.

If Abbott opposes the ETS I will vote Liberal.
joe
# joe
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:54 PM
Regardless of the flat earth society,s folleys ,It is hard to fathom how the liberal party machane could allow Abott to come even within a wiff of the leadership.
He will never ever win an election
Colster
# Colster
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:55 PM
Time to do what's right... Start up the Progressive Liberal Party of Australia and move on from the right wing neo cons that will move Australia backwards... before we know it Abbot and co will be trying to outlaw abortion, bring back god save the queen, etc

Let them be a right wing party that stands on the margins.
Liberal Farrrrr  right
# Liberal Farrrrr right
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:00 PM
Malcolm W E L L D O N E

For being a MAN to BACK up your statements with your actions on ETS / climate change . WELL DONE YOU.

AND also WELL DONE as via this BLOG exposing the VERY UGLY side of the obvious FARRR Right of the so called liberal party .
They are sounding more like the Labour party of old , VERY LOUD , without any common agreement or policy . Obviously the TRUTH hurts them .
There seems no interest in the center,ethical,moral ground for the good of ones Country .
They are all in the same pot calling the kettle black and must have very short memories , given the party's actions over the past months . That vote was 42/41 they seem NOT to wish to remember
To them Tucky must be a hero . But I don't hear any of them saying so .
the term ""Red Necks and wing Nuts"" comes to mind .

On the IMPORTANT topic of ETS , YES CROSS the FLOOR and vote with your conscience it IS YOUR democratic RIGHT and NOT against the liberal party rules . Austarlia IS a Democracy at least last time I looked .



Alphonse
# Alphonse
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:12 PM
"An ETS is just a tax, which means emissions wont be cut, they will just cost more".
- # b milligan, Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:39 PM

If chocolate gets to be more expensive than caviar, I'll still buy just as much.
David Buckley
# David Buckley
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:13 PM
My God! An honest politician. Is this a first for Australia?
Alan Marshall
# Alan Marshall
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:15 PM
Well said Malcolm,

I hope you do indeed cross the floor in February. Ultimately the truth will prevail, and history will judge your stand as principled and heroic. The policy response to ths issue is too important to humanity for it to be compromised by percieved party interests.

I suggest you go further, and urge the public to enquire about the views of all their local candidates, and to vote for the individual, regardless of party affiliation, who is most commited to practical action to reduce carbon emissions.

Best Wishes,
Alan Marshall

PS. There was a very thourough critique of Abbot's non-policy by Ross Gittins in the SMH (Business Section), 7 December 2009. It agrees well with your own comments above.
allan
# allan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:15 PM
ATTN: TREE HUGGERS.

TURN THE AIR CONDITIONER OFF - TURN THE COMPUTER OFF UNPLUG THE FRIDGE AND START WALKING INLAND TO WHERE THE OCEAN USED TO BE. WALK DOWN THE HUME HIGHWAY AND OBSERVE THE REMNANTS OF GLACIERS. WALK UP THE NEW ENGLAND HWY AND OBSERVE THE MOONBI RANGE AND HAVE A THINK ABOUT YOUR BULLSHIT TAX. IF ONLY THE DINOSOARS THOUGHT OF INTRODUCING AN ETS. CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL. IT HAS BEEN FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. IF YOU TREE HUGGERS WERE FAIR DINKUM YOU WOULD STOP BREATHING FOR THE SAKE OF THE PLANET YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
Deb
# Deb
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:21 PM
Well I posted before about the radical religious right and Bernardi using a US style campaigne.
It would seem that the flat earthers are visiting here also.
Malcolm there is a relentless campaigne by the extreme right with the support of extremist religious groups.
Be warned, but don't back down as they unleash their fury in on this site in an attempt to silence you.
I don't see your actions as one of a spoilt child but one of conviction.
Good Luck & stick it to em.
Karen
# Karen
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:27 PM
The climate change illiterate has announced his dynamic front bench. Pre-historic Bronwyn Bishop, disgraced Kevin Andrews (Dr Haneef) and the shrill ranter Barnaby Joyce. Should make for a hilarious but very short comedy.
Asha
# Asha
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:31 PM
You know, what really p*** me off Malcolm is your comment about "how we GET farmers to change the way they manage their land, plant trees etc" You obviously know sweet FA about what REAL farmers are doing (as opposed to pretend ones like you). I don' t know a farmer who hasn't changed their management practices and no one had to "GET" us to do it. Just like no one has to "GET" us to plant trees. We planted 900 this year. No one paid us, no one had to GET us to do it. We don't need punitive measures to GET us to make changes. Nearly all innovations in agriculture have come from farmers. Which surely isn't surprising. Your comment is ignorant and insulting.
Liberal Farrrrr  right
# Liberal Farrrrr right
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:36 PM
Re the comments above from aLLAN and some others

This is the so called logical discussion and sentiment that is now permiating through the far right of the liberal party .

What a SHAME to see the party descend into such mindless depths
God help us at the next election
Vote one Neanderthals
Joan
# Joan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:40 PM
Mr Turnbull, it saddens me as a lifelong Liberal Party supporter, that there is such open disunity being fostered by you.
Whatever happened to loyalty and teamwork?
Robyn Fraser
# Robyn Fraser
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:41 PM
Last night on the ABC a NASA climate change expert said that all the carbon taxes would only benefit the Wall Street banks. Specifically, he named Goldman Sachs. One could say that either this scientist had a beef with the banks (possibly because of the global financial crisis(?)), or did he have direct proof of how the huge financial rewards from this type of ETS scheme would be manipulated? Afterall, the Wall Street boys were the real experts in thinking up all ways and means to invent new types of loans that virtually brought the world to its financial knees. The real winners in that exercise were the top executives in those very banks. Today, the head of Goldman Sachs Wall Street boasts of his bank's wealth. Guess a new game is now to be fought over, worldwide, and it will be one hell of a fight.
PJ O'Brien
# PJ O'Brien
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:49 PM
I am a Woolloomooloo resident. I get to vote for you (or not).

Get with the party line Malcolm. The ETS is a scam.

The only people supporting you here are Labor voters - By their own admission. (Poor simple darlings - there there, yes of course I know we're all going to melt, yes of course climate change causes earthquakes, of course the science is settled - now totter off back to Flannery's website - there you go)

Use that big Rhodes scholar brain YOU have. YOU won the Spycatcher case against the whole British government - when you were a child. YOU told Kerry Packer you'd kill him - when he was your boss. YOU started email in Australia - sort of, well you paid for it anyway.

Your behaviour is killing your legacy. You are making the wrong choices and saying things that make no sense. Get out of that latte and into the trenches.

What's your motivation Malcolm? What could make you give up being PM?
Grant
# Grant
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:54 PM
You were proven to be unrepresentative of your party, and I believe unrepresentative of your voters. An ETS is NOT the only way to go, particularly when the major polluters were excluded. Become an independent and re-run for your seat. Then you can (if you're elected - good luck there) say you're doing the right thing.

It's not just fringe science that's against an ETS. There are those that just don't think the ETS will do much apart from increasing admin and cost. Also there are many alternatives. Where are the "eat a kangaroo" campaigns (methane is MUCH worse than CO2 for warming)? Where are the discussions on sciences that may allow for further reflection of the sun. Discussions on reforestation. Why wasn't the ETS made sooooo public that I could recite it in my sleep?

Also I can not believe that you were so stupid as to try and allow this through without any idea as to how this would interface with the rest of the world - you were going to allow this before Copenhagen. Good on you for agreeing to make Aus less competitive by an ETS tax that the rest of the world may not accept.

You failed in your job as leader, and now you are failing as follower. You deserved what you got.
Malcontent
# Malcontent
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:55 PM
Malcolm,

I came here from theorstrayhun, as one of your constituents, it is enlightening to see this method of debate and comment. In due course it will settle down and some decent feedback may be useful, so I have put this site with my favourites.

Now with the time now available for you to sit , think, and reflect, I trust that you will read the decent and serious comments, or at least have them brought to your notice.

A great book to read for Christmas is David Ray Griffin's recent analysis titled;

'The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7. Why the official Report about 9/11 is Unscientific and False'. [Olive Press. 2009]

Now tell us about all those 'sexed up' (as in the Downing Street memos for the conquest of Iraq) recorded hot temperatures that the scientist's leaked e-mails indicate, are exagerated and hide the reality of climate cooling.

By the way the commentator on George and Paul (2UE) last Saturday reported that the climate in Oz is based on a thirty six year cycle, the last good season ended in about 1970. His forecast was; from next year is the commencement of the 36 year wet cycle.

I hope we are not then paying a fortune in extra charges etc for a whole heap of rain and cooler days!

Oh well , the scientists and government boffins are never wrong are they?

Chris
# Chris
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM
Thanks Malcolm. The Liberal Party deserves oblivion, and you have done more for that cause than any living person.
PJ O'Brien
# PJ O'Brien
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:02 PM
Just further...
I don't know what you've seen and heard, but I'd be very interested in hearing why you have made these decisions.

Hold a lecture in your electorate. Preferably this weekend. Put it on Youtube for everyone to see.
Tell us what you know.
Tell us why we shouldn't be concerned that Google is censoring it's engine. That the ABC is not demonstrating a sickening alarmist bias but is actually presenting a balancing debate.
That the alarmist propaganda is actually reasonable.
That there is actually some science behind this.
When the debate was held and the science was settled.
That the hockey stick incident was just a simple calculation error.
That Al Gore actually has a need for fourteen cars, a private jet and all the lights on in all four of his mansions all night for security reasons.
Why the sceptics are wrong.

Contrary to what you may believe, many of us are looking for the science. A reason to support this madness. The only science we find points us in the opposite direction. Nobody wants to melt - if in fact that may occur.
Disclose your reasoning or perish.
Anything else is just empty rhetoric. Nobody cares what you think - we want to know WHAT YOU KNOW.
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:04 PM
Last night on the ABC a NASA climate change expert said that all the carbon taxes would only benefit the Wall Street banks. Specifically, he named Goldman Sachs.

..............................................................................................................................................
Golly gosh, gee wizz - I wonder who used to be a Goldman Sachs banker prior to moving to the Liberal party?
Tony Haldeman
# Tony Haldeman
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:05 PM
YOU are only serving to help the Liberal Party plunge into the wilderness for the next 3-4 elections if you are going to continue to snipe from the back benches! Go and get back into bed with Kevin Dudd and stop the sour grapes you are oozing from every pore Malcolm...ENOUGH
Karen
# Karen
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:07 PM
Judging by the number of comments, the MT blogs are indeed hits. Malcolm, keep them coming and please start a new party for the voters without a home. The current choices are horrible. An insipid milkshake(ALP) or a toxic brew
( the mad monk and his tribe of cave dwellers formerly known as the Liberal Party).
Gary Duffy
# Gary Duffy
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:11 PM
Rudd today... he will change the ETS so 2.6 million Australians will not pay for Carbon Credits, and 3.4 million will get refunds... This is completely different to the ETS he tried to push through Parliament..This just goes to show how wrong it was for Australians. Seeing James Hanson's interview on Lateline last night made sense this is a climate change which has been going on for 45,000 years since the last ice age, when Aboriginals walked from Africa to Australia.. James is the Director of NASA"S Climate change institute and is the one who first discovered the planet was warming. He said not one cent will stop climate change. it is a cycle which happens every 50,000 years, so in about 5,000 years the planet will freeze again and the cycle will start again.
Gary Duffy
# Gary Duffy
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:14 PM
Starting a new party.. you will end up with Pauline's supporters, the only ones without a home.. Only 4% of Australians are members of a political party, the rest couldn't give a dam.
Lyn
# Lyn
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:18 PM
Karen - The mad monk may well be the saviour of this country. Until Abbott WE were being railroaded into accepting a deal that would have destroyed the Australian economy and seen your tax dollars sent to corrupt third world leaders like Mugabe. Abbott is working on an alternate plan which he will unveil in February,2010. I think that the 80% of voters that polled wanted more infomation - and Tony WILL give that to them! As a voter I am sick to death of our politicans signing UN treaties with little or no consulation.
Ingrid
# Ingrid
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:19 PM
Dear Mr. Turnbull.
As a liberal voter I supported you at first as leader,but later became disappointed with your policy on the ETS,and not standing up against Mr.K.Rudd enough.
So...let it go,you are not the leader of the liberals anymore.
Alondra
# Alondra
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:24 PM
Good on you. I've always voted Labor but your personal stand on the ETS' legislation alone (telling it as it is) can persuade me to vote Liberal if you ever become leader again .....provided you're able to clean up certain elements in your party.

Again, well done for speaking out.
Oziebill
# Oziebill
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:30 PM
What I don't understand is how these sceptics explain (a) David Cameron, the U.K. Conservative party leader and almost certainly the next prime minster has a bi partisan approach with the government; and (b) how they explain the Queen's call recently for Commonwealth countries to take the lead in climate change action.

Are these two left wing conspirators?
Ron Chandler
# Ron Chandler
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:53 PM
Well said, and this comes from a long-time Labor hater. Good to see a pollie with some brains, let alone principles. Or, is there in place a huge CORPORATE RIGHT-WING conspiracy, feeding the denialists? Always follow the money. I hope you're quietly recruiting your next shadow ministry: they'll be needed before too long...
Karen
# Karen
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:58 PM
@Lyn. The mad monk has consistently shown he does not understand climate change. He is without credibility on this issue and lives in the dark ages as far as this and other important social issues are concerned. The world is about to pass him by. Are you aware of the negative press he has been getting from the overseas press? MM will soon be contemplating a new career as will his fellow misfits. He might consider modelling speedos. The man is no saviour but an extremist whose views are out of touch with the mainstream and the swinging voter.
Fred
# Fred
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:03 PM
It's not about politics it's about Turnbull via Goldman Sachs managing the global ETS pot of gold.

Wake up and smell the money trail. There's a good post on this page at 12.23 this morning that exposes the entire scam.


mike edwards
# mike edwards
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:19 PM
The real debate should be about sustainability. If we actually need the resources of 3 or 4 Earth-like planets to provide everybody with an Australian standard of living, and we believe this is desirable, then economic growth is the problem and global warming is the symptom.
Evan
# Evan
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:23 PM
Malcolm, I'd love to hear/see your reaction to Abbott's Shadow Cabinet lineup, announced today! Very much a case of "Back to the future".
I don't quite know what Hockey and Pyne are thinking, signing up to the "New Right" agenda of Abbott and Minchin!
Abbott is definitely rewarding the climate change sceptics/anti-ETS people!
stevebrisbane
# stevebrisbane
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:31 PM
Why are you being a spoiler, Malcolm are you really that destructive. You don't get that most Australians do not buy the crooked science and the deception, don't be part of that I always in the past thought you better of that.
Flogiston For Real
# Flogiston For Real
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:36 PM
DEFENCELESS DENIERS

Dear Malcolm, I hear today that Mr Abbott has nothing to say, . . won't [deign to] debate you on the issue of Global Warming. Funny that!

You must be mortified, devastated !

Not a good look Tony, NOT A GOOD LOOK !

( Go for it Mal. Go get 'em ! )

=FFR=
Malcontent
# Malcontent
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:39 PM
Fred at 4.03.

You can bet that you are on the money. I take it that you and Malcolm would need to examine the article at the Georgewashington blog spot;

'The woman who invented credit default swaps is one of the key architects of carbon derivatives, which would be a the very center (sic) of cap and trade'

See: http://www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com./

Many are aware that the credit default swaps occasioned the present economic crisis and the CTS is centered around derivatives,

This whole thing is a banker's rort and most of our politicians are the mere puppets.

We need pliticians who by due diligence put Australia's interest first second and from third on.

You up to that Malcolm?
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:41 PM
Global scpeticism is on the rise, despite, or perhaps because of, outright lies, exaggeration, data "adjustments" and other devious means employed by carbon crackpots and their disciples in the name of the Church Of Latter Day Alarmism

Soon nobody will own up to being duped by this global warming scam posing as a new-age, urban-atheist religion.

In the US:
AMERICANS who think global warming is caused by human activity, including vehicle and industrial emissions, are now a minority for the first time in nearly two years, according to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll.

Only 45 per cent of the 1041 adults surveyed on December 2-3 believed global warming was a proven fact and mostly caused by human activity, down from 56 per cent in October 2007.

In Britain:
Almost half of people in Britain believe there is no proof that global warming is caused by humans, according to a new poll.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/soon_no_one_will_admit_they_were_once_a_warming_dupe/
Ray Jamieson
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:44 PM
Malcolm, wake up to yourself!
Has CLIMATEGATE been in your newspapers? Does the word SCAM cross your vision? Read about and listen to the arguments flying about the validity of the Global Warming issue, and the fudging of the data, before you brand us all as "deniers". The future may well prove you the idiot you are making yourself out to be with this sour grapes attack!
As for the ETS, how does a tax change the climate? The money goes into treasury, then what? You are rewarding the big polluters by covering their costs, so they don't make any changes. The banks love you for setting up a new commodity to trade and make BILLIONS with, and the long suffering consumer is screwed again! They will cut back, not on power, but on food, childcare, clothing and health before they can turn off their refrigerator!
Wake up, and enjoy your time on the back bench, before you slip away into oblivion! Stop playing DOG IN THE MANGER!
Ray Jamieson
Greenhoax
# Greenhoax
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:48 PM

I note that KRudd is too afraid to debate Tony Abbott on the Emissions Tax Swindle.

I wonder why?

Perhaps he's still hoping to lumber us all with a huge new tax when he thinks we're not wa\ching.

Or perhaps he doubts the junk science behind it, just like the rest of us, ( even the alarmists!), and therefore would be unable to intelligently debate it.

His huge deficit has to be repaid somehow.

Not a good look Kevin, NOT A GOOD LOOK !
Mick RWC
# Mick RWC
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:50 PM
Cry me a river Malcolm.
What this party needs now is unison. YOu have had your time in the sun. YOur comments now are only destructive. If you must bang on with your perspective, then you owe the Liberal Party to resign and run as an independent.

You argue that the sceptics are closed minded yet you are not being very open to recent email scandal for the University of East Anglia's CRU. It is worthy of a bit more attention. The science is not settled. We don't owe the environment the benefit of the doubt. There is too much doubt. We (you) owe Australians the benefit of the doubt. Down with the ETS. Down with the ETS now. Down with Rudds international galavanting and self-promotion.

I agree you cannot reduce emmissions without some hurt, but you need to consider less hurt than $120bn over 10 years - just for starters.

You need to pull your head in Malcolm. That is your responsibility now.
Rod
# Rod
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:57 PM
Well said Mr Turnbull. You and sensible menbers of the Opposition need to maintain integrity and rationality on this. There a true liberals in the LP, and hard right reactionary and prohibitory conservatives. The Australian people need to have the opportunity to not only respond to the Labour-Liberal divide electorally but also this inner (current) divide. Perhaps it needs to be fully overted?
scio
# scio
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:02 PM
There is a very interesting article here ; http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-holy-war-on-climate-change/ on the way the lunatic extreme right orchestrated the attack on Turnbull etc.

Good old CatchTheFire ministries were heavily involved - remember these nuts - the ones who claimed the Victorian bushfires were caused by God (perhaps God actually started them with a discarded cigaratte butt or a divine lit fart) to punish Victorians for their stand on abortion.
Geoff
# Geoff
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:03 PM
When Tony Abbott saved us from the ETS and you Malcolm slinked off the back bench, I noted to my mates… "LET THE WHITE-ANTING BEGIN." Soon after we had the baseless hockey funding figures. Then your dummy spit Malcolm... you are so predictable.

Arrogant, egotistical and immature… you haven't grown up since the republic push. I still remember the erroneous plaintive cry re Howard breaking everyone’s heart. You couldn't stand losing then and you still can't. YOU CAN"T BE TOLD!!!!!

Now you are going to vote with Labor… surprise... surprise...
Well like Kernot before you perhaps you should join the party your politics reflect.

A party that is so-called-progressive, wants a republic and wants and ETS. So much so none of them are allowed to dissent.

It’s no use bombarding you with dissent or another opinion... I know you don’t listen. Like Rudd YOU know best. Anyone who dissents is wrong... right?

You don’t need to start another political party… one that reflects your beliefs already exists… it is called... the ALP.

Since the Liberals finally found a backbone the lies have been coming thick and fast and you Malcolm have been spouting the ALP rhetoric in your own defense.

1/ The Liberals broke their word.

No that’s a lie. The Libs gave you the go ahead to bargain with the ALP on the ETS… BUT… after that it was still up to the party to accept or reject the final bargain etc.

2/ You say of Tony Abbott, that he ''was never afraid of speaking bluntly in a manner that was at odds with Coalition policy. So as I am a humble backbencher I am sure he won't complain if I tell a few home truths about the farce that the Coalition's policy, or lack of policy, on climate change has descended into.''

Another lie… I can’t recall Abbott not publicly supporting the party line. Until the party was flooded with public dissent... until they made it abundantly clear that they did not want the ETS. They wanted an Opposition.

3/ You infer that the Libs say that ''you can drastically cut emissions without any cost”.

Another lie… no one has said it will be without a cost.

4/ You infer that the Libs are misleading people because they don’t have a policy.

Another lie… they are now going to create a policy… I note… Malcolm YOU didn’t have one either and chose Labor policy instead.

As for you Malcolm being a leader… you have no political sense.
1/ Republic… loser
2/ Utegate… loser
3/ ETS… loser.

Under Abbott, in less than a week the party has started to turn around public opinion about the party. Under YOU they were wallowing in the mire… and sinking into the quicksand of political oblivion.

YOU wanted to create another “progressive” party out of what we expect to be a primarily conservative party. We don't need any more so-called "progressive" parties. Join the Greens, the ALP, the Democrats.....

There is noting wrong with conservatism…

con·ser·va·tism (kən-sûr'və-tĭz'əm)
n.

1. The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order.
2. A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

Nothing wrong with that and to hell with change for changes sake. How many “progressive” changes have proven REGRESSIVE and for the worse… I'll tell you how many... too many.

Don't go away mad Malcolm... just go away.
If you can't be part of the solution stop being part of the problem.

Billy Nudgel
# Billy Nudgel
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:04 PM
Guess you'll also be voting Labor at the next election Malcolm. Tell us again why you are with the Liberal Party?
Penny
# Penny
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:08 PM
Malcolm, I did like you a few months ago and thought you were effective but not now after seeing your backstabbing - worse than Latham as you are still in parliament. There is no way the Liberals can ever go back to you without a full revolt from the electorate! Suggest you call it a day politically unless you intend to leave the conservatives.
I must say I could never understand why you were in favour of the ETS but I have just realised that you are a banker with ties to Goldman Sachs and they stand to make billions with an ETS going worldwide - no wonder you were for it!
Rudd at the last election was the "me too" candidate and Howard needed to retire... Abbott is going to stand up for the working men and women that foot the bills at this next election... at this stage looks like we just can't afford your ETS - tell your Goldman Sachs people they have overestimated our circumstances and have asked for too much money! SORRY! NO SALE!
scot mcphee
# scot mcphee
Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:08 PM
Well, the CEC / La Rouchies / Liberal trogdolytes are out in force in the comments, that's for certain.

For people accussing Malcolm of 'sour grapes' consider this:

The Liberal Party caucus agreed to the policy position that Malcolm and Macfarlane put to them. The policy was the same as the same gang supported when last in Government.

A leadership spill was defeated.

Some people in the party who didn't get the result they wanted (the minority) decided they didn't like the result they got, and not only threw all the toys out of the cot, they took the 'nuclear option' and threatened to tear the entire party to bits unless they got their way.

Enough members were cowed by the threat of assured annihilation at the polls they switched their vote in the leadership battle.

To accuse Mr. Turnbull of 'sour grapes' in this circumstance is ironic in the extreme.

I'm a ALP voter. I don't like the ETS, but because I think it gives too much of taxpayers subsidy to the big emitters and I think the targets are not ambitious enough. But politics is about the art of the possible. The ETS should be passed, the subsidies will eventually be retired.

Its ironic that now the Liberals ditched Malcolm, the party with the MARKET-BASED policy is now the Labour Party. At best the Abbott 'fig-leaf' offers DIRECT REGULATION. Which you'd think would cause the right-wing La Rouchies and their fellow travellers to go totally crazy, but obviously their ears are tuned to the Abbot DOG-WHISTLE on the issue.

To people who think that Hansen is disproven, the "science isn't settled", that "climate gate" is a smoking gun, you are deluding yourself with your wholly ideological rejection of what is very good science. Science is one of the fundamental base