Ratings, thread also contains renewal talk Options

[Thanos0145]

Do you remember something called the Writer's Strike? That hurt a majority of TV show ratings. The likes of House, 24, LOST, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, CSI, etc. all experienced series lows in ratings. So Chuck wasn't the only one to suffer.

That's comparing apples to oranges. The difference between "Chuck" and those shows is that they weren't in danger of being cancelled this season. The writer's strike did hurt all shows, and that lasted a few months. What do you think a nearly 10 month wait is going to do? This "Olympic promotion" NBC has for Chuck better be the greatest promotion for a show in TV history. Chuck's numbers across the board have to improve and be maintained throughout the season for any hope of a 4th season.

Though now I believe that Chuck COULD be the first show to look beyond the Nielsen ratings system. And we have Subway to thank for that.

When you have Subway willing to dump millions of dollars to sponsor a show with 6 million viewers and 2.4 in the demos, that shows you something.

Bottom Line is that Chuck needs to improve bringing advertising$$$ for NBC besides Subway. If all it took for Chuck to have many seasons on TV was a passionate fanbase; there'd be no need to keep track of demos and ratings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Thanos0145]

Dude, positivity is what moves mountains!

So does constructive criticism! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[snickrz]

Hey team, I got this from Zac's site:

If you are planning on attending the E3, Electronic Entertainment Expo 2009 at the L.A. Convention Center on June 2, you may run into Zac Levi!

E3 Expo is North America’s premier computer and video game trade show. It takes place June 2-4, 2009, at the Los Angeles Convention Center.

E3 Expo draws tens of thousands of professionals to experience the future of interactive entertainment. The most influential people leading the most innovative companies in the business attend E3 Expo to see groundbreaking new technologies and never-before-seen products for computers, video game consoles, handheld systems and the Internet.

Any west coast Chuck fans able to attend? If yes, do you think we could get you to wear Chuck t-shirts or other items, or perhaps pass out some of the Chuck postcards (found on Zac's site: http://zachary-levi.com)?

I'm stuck in Kansas, so all I have are ideas at this point. I just want to get the word out and this seems like the perfect audience to become Chuck fans!

E3 is only open to the media and those who can get tickets from the ESA. It's, unfortunately, not a public event.

That's comparing apples to oranges. The difference between "Chuck" and those shows is that they weren't in danger of being cancelled this season. The writer's strike did hurt all shows, and that lasted a few months. What do you think a nearly 10 month wait is going to do? This "Olympic promotion" NBC has for Chuck better be the greatest promotion for a show in TV history. Chuck's numbers across the board have to improve and be maintained throughout the season for any hope of a 4th season.

Once again, the reason Chuck was in danger this season was because of the loss of five hours. Otherwise it's demo average is still higher than NBC's overall demo average and would not be in danger of cancellation any other year.

The ten month wait isn't ideal, but it's not a death call some are making it out to be. The fact that one of NBC's main ad buyers is directly sponsoring a show gives them a very compelling reason to do everything they can to make sure Chuck can improve. On top of that, NBC is clearly happy enough with Chuck's current performance to one, renew the show, and two, to put the show right back into it's competitive Monday time slot.

I also recommend you read the following article, if you haven't already. It specifically states, "In return, NBC gets large amounts of money from Subway and the ability to use that sponsorship as leverage to increase the price of other advertisements airing during Chuck." This fits directly into NBC's main goal right now of not being the #1 network, but being profitable. There is no need for a company to have the biggest piece of pie to be profitable.

Looking at history, Chuck benefits the most from advertising. It's numbers averaged much higher than the rest of NBC's Monday night line up from the Superbowl. I have no doubt that Chuck's numbers will improve from 17 days of advertising because those ad viewers will probably be NBC's biggest viewing audience of the season.

In fact, if we were to further delve into the numbers, we would see that Chuck's second half hour almost always increases by a decent margin. We can probably safely assume that the BBT viewers are migrating to Chuck after it's over. With BBT moving to 9:30, Chuck can probably uptick it's demos by that alone.

Bottom Line is that Chuck needs to improve bringing advertising$$$ for NBC besides Subway. If all it took for Chuck to have many seasons on TV was a passionate fanbase; there'd be no need to keep track of demos and ratings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

See above.

[buymoriaking1]

That's comparing apples to oranges. The difference between "Chuck" and those shows is that they weren't in danger of being cancelled this season. The writer's strike did hurt all shows, and that lasted a few months. What do you think a nearly 10 month wait is going to do? This "Olympic promotion" NBC has for Chuck better be the greatest promotion for a show in TV history. Chuck's numbers across the board have to improve and be maintained throughout the season for any hope of a 4th season.

No Chuck wasn't in danger of being canceled this season. It's because of Leno that Chuck is in this position. Many, if not all media outlets have mentioned this. The people who run TVByTheNumbers even said that in any given season that Chuck would be renewed, along with all the bubble shows. It's Leno that screwed everything up, yet we still survived. Can't say the same to Medium/ MNIE fans. Chopping off 5 hours of primetime creates limited time slots. Thankfully for NBC, they found a place for the show.

Bottom Line is that Chuck needs to improve bringing advertising$$$ for NBC besides Subway. If all it took for Chuck to have many seasons on TV was a passionate fanbase; there'd be no need to keep track of demos and ratings. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I emailed you the article (which snickrz posted) that shows you how the Subway deal could actually INCREASE the ad rates for Chuck. Just them sponsoring the show gives NBC leverage to charge more than they usually can. So by your argument, Chuck has already improved in terms of ad dollars.

Subway is one of NBC's largest sponsor, spending about $40 million advertising on NBC (read this somewhere, most likely TVWeek). In fact, the two main shows they advertise on is The Biggest Loser, one of NBC's best performing show, and Chuck. The fact that Subway is willing to spend more $$$ on a show with mediocre ratings shows that Subway sees something in Chuck's audience, which would cause other advertisers/corporations to take notice as well.

No matter how you look at the 3D episode quality-wise, the advertising worked. NBC did it's part by advertising the show, but Schwartz/Fedak dropped the ball on the episode. That's the fault of the writers more than NBC. So we all hope SF step up to the plate and deliver the best Chuck episode to date come March 1st.

That's why I'm sticking with the Olympics launching pad should/will work with ample advertising. Those 17 days will be without a doubt NBC's largest ratings of the year. When you have 25 million a night watching, American Idol-like ratings for 17 straight days, I'm a firm believer that advertising will be enough to counter the 10 month layoff.

Again, if it wasn't for Leno, we wouldn't be having these renewal efforts and such. Chuck would be a lock for season 3 and possibly more.

[thejs26]

I was reading some info that said Conan has to be mad with Jay Leno moving up an hour.... Because everyone will want to do the earlier show.... The article also stated that if Conan doesn't do as good as people hope, Leno could always move back into that spot....

The article also said "this is almost free (for NBC). The hours that they have to program (a 10 p.m. drama) could cost them minimally $100 million (a year); that's $100 million you don't (now) have to pay in license fees. Then, if you don't have to develop, you're probably going to cut your development costs. I would say conservatively (the total) would be $150 million (in savings). It's not going to cost them $150 million for Jay."

So we learn 2 things... No matter what Jay Leno will not be cut with this much money being saved..... The only thing we can hope is Conan Struggles and they move Jay back to his Original Spot...


On another Note I really like what NBC is trying with Year Round Programming... I think it gives a legitimate Chance to bubble shows....


Finally I really believe a pick-up of Season 4 will come down to how Subway feels once the episodes begin to air... If the Demo's stay the same, but Subway is happy than NBC picks Chuck up Not only for a Season 4, but for a back 9 as well...

Chuck is changing the face of T.V. so if the fans can make Subway Happy, they will continue to make us Happy

[TheLionKing]

Lol I love Conan they best not be messing with him, his hair alone will dominate the ratings. I love his monologues, and his Texas Ranger clips. I really hope he does well and of course I wish the same success for Chuck.

[amyabn]

E3 is only open to the media and those who can get tickets from the ESA. It's, unfortunately, not a public event.


Once again, the reason Chuck was in danger this season was because of the loss of five hours. Otherwise it's demo average is still higher than NBC's overall demo average and would not be in danger of cancellation any other year.

The ten month wait isn't ideal, but it's not a death call some are making it out to be. The fact that one of NBC's main ad buyers is directly sponsoring a show gives them a very compelling reason to do everything they can to make sure Chuck can improve. On top of that, NBC is clearly happy enough with Chuck's current performance to one, renew the show, and two, to put the show right back into it's competitive Monday time slot.

I also recommend you read the following article, if you haven't already. It specifically states, "In return, NBC gets large amounts of money from Subway and the ability to use that sponsorship as leverage to increase the price of other advertisements airing during Chuck." This fits directly into NBC's main goal right now of not being the #1 network, but being profitable. There is no need for a company to have the biggest piece of pie to be profitable.

Looking at history, Chuck benefits the most from advertising. It's numbers averaged much higher than the rest of NBC's Monday night line up from the Superbowl. I have no doubt that Chuck's numbers will improve from 17 days of advertising because those ad viewers will probably be NBC's biggest viewing audience of the season.

In fact, if we were to further delve into the numbers, we would see that Chuck's second half hour almost always increases by a decent margin. We can probably safely assume that the BBT viewers are migrating to Chuck after it's over. With BBT moving to 9:30, Chuck can probably uptick it's demos by that alone.


See above.

Snickrz,
thanks. I didn't realize it wasn't open for people to attend. I'm slightly bummed at the loss of a chance to push Chuck!

[Zaris]

Tying in with the Have a Heart - Save Chuck campaign people could host charity night showing the first season of chuck in Nov or Dec to raise money for the Heart Association. This could get more people watching the show and generate buzz for chuck going into the new season. If held at major Universities it could pull in more people from the key demographic and raise a lot of money for the Heart Association.

[CaptainJackHarkn...]

CaptainJackHarkness, those aren't the demo numbers. Those are the HOUSEHOLD/SHARE numbers. The demos are different. You may want to change your numbers.

Here are the demo numbers which you can search for yourself:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/day/monday

While your theory may hold some weight, I think the simpler explanation is that the competition hurt Chuck more than anything on the show, as I mentioned earlier. It's very obvious that DWTS hurt ALL shows:

Previous week b4 DWTS premiere:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/03/monda...the-crowd/13824

DWTS premiere:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/10/monda...an-before/14206

Compare the numbers. It's telling.

I went through those demo numbers you posted, but just for Chuck...

Chuck has shown a steadily downward trend since the season 2 premier. It peaked a little on vs the Breakup, which was after vs the Seduction, but continued a downward trend throughout the Jill arc up till vs the Santa Claus. The numbers jumped for vs the Third Dimension, but then continued going south, with one deep drop after vs the Broken Heart (vs the Dream Job). The numbers jumped again for vs the First Kill, but steadily went down to end at 2.5/7 and 2/6 for vs the Ring.

The episodes that experienced the highest upward trends:
From vs the Seduction to vs the Break-up. (up 13.3%)
From vs the Dream Job to vs the First Kill. (up 19.6%)
From superbowl to vs the Third Dimension. (up 23.7%)

The episodes that experienced the greatest downward trends:
From vs the First Date to vs the Seduction (down 16.4%)
From vs the Third Dimension to vs the Suburbs (down 12.9%)

Jill arc:
From vs Tom Sawyer to vs the Ex (down 10.9%)
From vs the Ex to vs the Fat Lady (up 3.8%)
From vs the Fat Lady to vs the Gravitron (no change)
From vs the Gravitron to vs the Sensei (down 3.8%)

MI6 arc:
From vs the Best Friend to vs the Beefcake (down 3.6%)
From vs the Beefcake to vs the Lethal Weapon (down 3.8%)
From vs the Lethal Weapon to vs the Predator (down 8%)

Afterwards:
From vs the Predator to vs the Broken Heart (up 8%)
From vs the Broken Heart to vs the Dream Job (down 12.2%)
From vs the Dream Job to vs the First Kill (up 19.6%)
From vs the First Kill to vs the Colonel (down 7.4%)
From vs the Colonel to vs the Ring (down 3.9%)

The Jill arc didn't do much, but vs the First Kill was a huge help.

The MI6 arc did nothing to reverse the downward trend.

Any thoughts?

[buymoriaking1]

CJH, Wait what? What the heck are you talking about? Do you not know how to read ratings? I still don't know what numbers you're giving.

Go and look back at the numbers. Remember, VIEWERSHIP NUMBERS ARE MEANINGLESS.

Maybe this is a better site since it shows the FINAL numbers:

http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/63310451

I'm not going to go back and find all the numbers right now. I'll do that later. But your statement "Chuck has shown a steadily downward trend since the season 2 premier" is somewhat right, but you FAIL to mention what competition Chuck has to go up against.

You seem to forget DWTS and HOUSE were competition for Chuck during the second half of the season. After DWTS premiered, Chuck hovered around 2.1

After DWTS premiered, Chuck hovered around a 2.1 for the next 3-4 episodes I believe. It was the last 3 episodes that Chuck went back up to a 2.4 in the demos, a healthy increase from the low.

Later today, I'll make a chart to show the ratings with all the demos.

[CaptainJackHarkn...]

I thought I was reading the numbers you gave in your previous link.

OK...I give up...hahahaha...

Could you chart the numbers by episode, so I can see how each episode did compared to the other?

A graph for the season would be nice too, so I can see the trend.

[buymoriaking1]

I thought I was reading the numbers you gave in your previous link.

OK...I give up...hahahaha...

Could you chart the numbers by episode, so I can see how each episode did compared to the other?

A graph for the season would be nice too, so I can see the trend.

That's partly my fault too. I should've given you the FINAL numbers (that link I post above) since TVBTN only gives the prelim numbers.

Wikipedia used to have a nice chart with all the ratings, but some dumba$$ deleted the whole thing. I'll re post it there sometime later today.

[Mikusan]

I decided to register, since i found it quite annoying that lots of info posted in this thread about the ratings are either put out of context or flat out wrong. That's why i prepared that small list with all eps ratings and some additional info.

Chuck wasn't trending down whole season, as there was no real trend, as it was going up and down depending the competition it was facing at the time - all data i used are the final numbers (demo were between 2.1 at the lowest and 3 at highest, with 2.4 avg).

You have to take into account one more thing, DVR numbers, which while not important from advertisers point of view, show one thing, that Chuck Live+7 viewers numbers didn’t actually drop that much from first half to second. In the first half Chuck had around 1,4 - 1,5 million viewers via DVR, while in second half it was averaging 1,7 – 1,9 million.

Main competition during the first half BBT/HIMYM, T:SCC, DWTS, MNF
1. vs First Date - 6,82 – 2.7 demo
2. vs Seduction - 5,83 – 2.3
3. vs Break-up - 6,17 – 2.4
4. vs Cougars - 6,87 – 2.6
5. vs Tom Sawyer - 6,70 – 2.6
-> 1 week break
6. vs The Ex - 6,34 – 2.4
7. vs Fat Lady - 6,89 – 2.7
8. vs The Gravitron - 6,53 – 2.5 (DWTS finale)
9. vs Sensei - 7,34 – 2.5
10. vs Delorean - 6,94 – 2.5
11. vs Santa Claus 7,66 – 2.6 (mid-season finale) – all shows in repeats that night or airing holiday specials

-> 2 months break

12. vs Third Dimension - 8,45 – 3.0 (3d episode)
-> 1 week break due Obama speach
13. vs Suburbs - 6,84 – 2.3
14. vs Best Friend - 6,59 – 2.3
15. vs Beefcake - 6,67 – 2.4 (main competition during ep 13-15 The Bachelor, House, BBT/HIMYM, GG)

16. vs Lethal Weapon - 5,8 – 2.1 (DWTS premieres in Bachelor spot) – House and HIMYM looses 2,5 m viewers that week, BBT around 1,5 million, GG around 0,5 million – none of the shows recovers the numbers they were pulling before DWTS premiere.
-> another 1 week break
17. vs Predator - 6.16 – 2.2
18. vs Broken Heart - 5,73 – 2.1
19. vs Dream Job - 6,10 – 2.1
20. vs First Kill - 6.21 – 2.3
21. vs Colonel - 6.11 – 2.4
22. vs The Ring - 6.2 – 2.4

[Lily1]

Great minds think alike!
http://www.tvguide.com/News/MegaBuzz-Chuck...ip-1006337.aspx
Keeping Chuck buzzworthy and viral are keys to securing a full season throughout next summer... that's right, Silverman said next summer! check it out and please, leave a Chuck friendly comment! The more we make our voices known outside Chuck circles, the more people are exposed to the Chuck virus.
Zaria, I LOVE your idea about a have-a-heart fundraiser in college campuses! Awesome!

[snickrz]

I made a chart of all the data. The only real trend is that Chuck got punched in the groin with House and Dancing.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/Safero/Chuckstats-1.jpg)

Edit: Mikusan beat me to it.

[NSACIAandMe]

Mikusan , CaptJackHarkness and Snickrz, You might as well not even try to bother with folks like "Buymoriaking1" and other posters who pretend to know anything about ratings by posting absolutely wrong information about viewership and demo numbers. Mikusan, it looks like you posted the TVBTN statistics for the second season of Chuck in your post, those are FACTS. My previous post were using the season average for all the NBC shows as listed in the TVBTN site. "Buymoriaking1" and others will ALWAYS use arguments completely out of context to drive their points across. This post is not meant to do anything but remind folks that the truth is not the enemy. Sticking your head in the sand in denial is how the show got into the near cancellation state that it was in. Funny that no one has mentioned the demo numbers for season one since they were over 3 and the average 18-49 (Live+SD) number was 4.061 million when the Network average was 3.5 million compared to this season of 3.168 million with a Network average of 3.023 million. That's over 500,000 core demo viewers, that's NOTHING compared to Heroes which lost MORE than 2 Million CORE demo viewers BUT, they Averaged 4.752 million which was almost 1.7 Million CORE Demo viewers more than Chuck per episode, that's a BIG number since most here tend to think there total viewership are the same (another LIE). Hopefully Chuck will never have to compete head to head with Heroes with who stays and who goes. .

Season one was NOT as expensive to produce than season one, maybe they should go back to more family/ character / driven shows which had higher demo numbers. I miss the Birthday/Thanksgiving/Halloween/Christmas shows from season one. Maybe more Character stories and less "Famous Guess-star" of the week, and have the actual characters become more of the stars that people want to watch.

For all those who want to continue to state things like Chuck is the most popular show on NBC and all the other shows on the network have lower ratings during one week or whatever just because you feel like stating . Post in another thread, maybe like "You know you're a Chuckaholic when.." . There are a lot of posters here who want to post legitimate opinions and suggestions based on industry facts about the ratings and sometimes it becomes a waste of time to post facts that some people just do not want to read or acknowledge them. We all post here because we want the show to succeed, some posts which "well make us look stupid" doesn't help the cause.

"Medium, Parks and Recreation, and Southland all have worse demos than Chuck. Just look at how they're doing just based on their last couple of episodes. "

This a Typical statement by Buymoriaking1, Medium is now a CBS show and it averaged 2.4, Parks and Recreation and Southland also averaged 2.4, which was the same as Chuck. And based on their last couple of episodes their numbers got worse as the later in the season they aired. SO, they were doing much better than Chuck only to be dragged down by the last episodes. So to state that "All have worse demos than Chuck", well it seems kind of ???????. If you want to continue to post in "Ratings" thread, I would suggest something stretched around Facts would be a good start.


On a similar note, this airing of shows later in the spring is part of my concern, as May comes along fewer people watch and demos are down. With Chuck airing in March 2010, I don't know if they can hold the 2.4 that they had. I would think they would need to do better than "Day One" does to stay on the schedule. NBC looks like they will be having mini-seasons of 13-16 episodes for a few shows to see how they do ?compete against each other? At least that's what it looks like on a couple of nights.

I would think that Josh and the writers would have to gear season three around the 13 episodes with an attractive cliff hanger. I would suggest they BACK OFF completely around the back story and stick to missions and the Chuck-Sarah relationship. Some of the "Back-stories" Arcs from season two where NOT ratings winners.

[buymoriaking1]

Mikusan, nicely done. You did a good job showing what Chuck's competition was, the breaks, and debuts of other shows.

It's important to note that Chuck's viewership numbers did not go down all that much. The viewers that we "lost" just shifted to DVR instead. That could be attributed to people watching House/DWTS first then watching Chuck later in the night/week.

It's pretty clear that any increase or decrease in the ratings is attributed to the competition and unscheduled breaks.

I'd like to add that in the last two episodes, Chuck achieved a 2.5 in the last half hour, and 2.2 in the first half. That could mean 2 things:

1. BBT fans are tuning over to Chuck, or

2. Nielsen families are late tuning in. The thing with Nielsen ratings is that if you're even 30 seconds late, you won't be counted until the second half hour. And you cannot change channels or else you won't be counted.

With Chuck achieving a 2.5 in the second half hour in the last 2 episodes, against stiff competition, is probably why NBC feels confident in leaving Chuck in the same time slot rather than launch a new show there. With that 2.5, Chuck was essentially getting the same demos as it was getting earlier in the year.

DVR viewers, while useless to advertisers, it gives a better indication of Chuck's viewer base. Like Mikusan pointed out, Chuck has anywhere from 1.5 to 1.9 million additional viewers via DVR.

[TheLionKing]

Well I don't really understand the point of your post NSACIAandME I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees that Chuck had not so great ratings for season 2. And as the season progressed it went up and down, but that's in the past already, the show got renewed. There's really no point even talking about season 2 numbers, they are set in stone we can't change them. What we should be doing now his to try and think of ways to improve season 3. And on the subject of Medium and even My Name Is Earl, what some people are pointing out is that they had around the same numbers as Chuck maybe even a bit better, but NBC renewed Chuck and not those 2 shows. From what I've read I believe they were both close to be syndicated. Yet NBC renewed Chuck, this shows that ratings and numbers aren't always everything. I understand that it is an important part and a show can't have awful ratings, but it isn't the only thing network executives look for and Buymoriaking1 brings up some good points for those.

[snickrz]

Mikusan , CaptJackHarkness and Snickrz, You might as well not even try to bother with folks like "Buymoriaking1" and other posters who pretend to know anything about ratings by posting absolutely wrong information about viewership and demo numbers. Mikusan, it looks like you posted the TVBTN statistics for the second season of Chuck in your post, those are FACTS. My previous post were using the season average for all the NBC shows as listed in the TVBTN site. "Buymoriaking1" and others will ALWAYS use arguments completely out of context to drive their points across. This post is not meant to do anything but remind folks that the truth is not the enemy. Sticking your head in the sand in denial is how the show got into the near cancellation state that it was in. Funny that no one has mentioned the demo numbers for season one since they were over 3 and the average 18-49 (Live+SD) number was 4.061 million when the Network average was 3.5 million compared to this season of 3.168 million with a Network average of 3.023 million. That's over 500,000 core demo viewers, that's NOTHING compared to Heroes which lost MORE than 2 Million CORE demo viewers BUT, they Averaged 4.752 million which was almost 1.7 Million CORE Demo viewers more than Chuck per episode, that's a BIG number since most here tend to think there total viewership are the same (another LIE). Hopefully Chuck will never have to compete head to head with Heroes with who stays and who goes.

I'm confused on what you're trying to say here. Are you saying Chuck lost core viewers but less so than Heroes?

Also, Buymoria and I tend to have similar views and opinions and he uses facts to back up his opinions and theories. We have plenty of conversations in PM's and his head is nowhere near the sand.

Season one was NOT as expensive to produce than season one, maybe they should go back to more family/ character / driven shows which had higher demo numbers. I miss the Birthday/Thanksgiving/Halloween/Christmas shows from season one. Maybe more Character stories and less "Famous Guess-star" of the week, and have the actual characters become more of the stars that people want to watch.

Again a little confused here but if what I think you're saying is that Season one was cheaper the season two. That is incorrect, the budget was trimmed for season two.

For all those who want to continue to state things like Chuck is the most popular show on NBC and all the other shows on the network have lower ratings during one week or whatever just because you feel like stating . Post in another thread, maybe like "You know you're a Chuckaholic when.." . There are a lot of posters here who want to post legitimate opinions and suggestions based on industry facts about the ratings and sometimes it becomes a waste of time to post facts that some people just do not want to read or acknowledge them. We all post here because we want the show to succeed, some posts which "well make us look stupid" doesn't help the cause.

Very few people are stupid enough to say Chuck is the most popular show on NBC. Most of us posting facts know the fact that Chuck is not the most popular show on NBC. Buymoria and I, and others, have no problem with them posting their opinions and suggestions nor have we ever had a problem. Our problem was the incessant negativity that had no basis of facts flooding the ratings thread. We stepped it to try to offer some perspective and facts to refute many of those baseless claims.

"Medium, Parks and Recreation, and Southland all have worse demos than Chuck. Just look at how they're doing just based on their last couple of episodes. "

This a Typical statement by Buymoriaking1, Medium is now a CBS show and it averaged 2.4, Parks and Recreation and Southland also averaged 2.4, which was the same as Chuck. And based on their last couple of episodes their numbers got worse as the later in the season they aired. SO, they were doing much better than Chuck only to be dragged down by the last episodes. So to state that "All have worse demos than Chuck", well it seems kind of ???????. If you want to continue to post in "Ratings" thread, I would suggest something stretched around Facts would be a good start.

Buymoria is correct, and I have made this statement too (although I believe we both excluded Medium to some degree). When looking at the demo's Southland and Parks both cratered, their demos dipped below Chuck's, consistently, after their first few episodes. That is a fact. We're not talking about averages, we're talking on a per episode basis.

On a similar note, this airing of shows later in the spring is part of my concern, as May comes along fewer people watch and demos are down. With Chuck airing in March 2010, I don't know if they can hold the 2.4 that they had. I would think they would need to do better than "Day One" does to stay on the schedule. NBC looks like they will be having mini-seasons of 13-16 episodes for a few shows to see how they do ?compete against each other? At least that's what it looks like on a couple of nights.

I would think that Josh and the writers would have to gear season three around the 13 episodes with an attractive cliff hanger. I would suggest they BACK OFF completely around the back story and stick to missions and the Chuck-Sarah relationship. Some of the "Back-stories" Arcs from season two where NOT ratings winners.

I still believe Chuck will do fine. Plenty of my past posts explain why.

[buymoriaking1]

Mikusan , CaptJackHarkness and Snickrz, You might as well not even try to bother with folks like "Buymoriaking1" and other posters who pretend to know anything about ratings by posting absolutely wrong information about viewership and demo numbers. Mikusan, it looks like you posted the TVBTN statistics for the second season of Chuck in your post, those are FACTS. My previous post were using the season average for all the NBC shows as listed in the TVBTN site. "Buymoriaking1" and others will ALWAYS use arguments completely out of context to drive their points across.

Find me a post where I used my arguments out of context.

This post is not meant to do anything but remind folks that the truth is not the enemy. Sticking your head in the sand in denial is how the show got into the near cancellation state that it was in. Funny that no one has mentioned the demo numbers for season one since they were over 3 and the average 18-49 (Live+SD) number was 4.061 million when the Network average was 3.5 million compared to this season of 3.168 million with a Network average of 3.023 million. That's over 500,000 core demo viewers, that's NOTHING compared to Heroes which lost MORE than 2 Million CORE demo viewers BUT, they Averaged 4.752 million which was almost 1.7 Million CORE Demo viewers more than Chuck per episode, that's a BIG number since most here tend to think there total viewership are the same (another LIE). Hopefully Chuck will never have to compete head to head with Heroes with who stays and who goes. .

And what's the point of this post? Of course Chuck lost viewers from the first season. The all shows (excluding BBT, HIMYM, Private Practice) lost viewers from last season. Where in my posts did I say otherwise? No need to look at season 1 ratings because it's irrelevant to the renewal of Chuck this season.

Heroes, for the most part, still has more viewers/demos than Chuck. Chuck, on certain episodes, (Santa Claus, 3D off the top of my head) had more LIVE viewers than Heroes. The LIVE+SD is what routinely gives Heroes more viewers. And the demos are no contest. While Heroes is cratering, it still has great demos for NBC. But compared to the budget Heroes has, the demos should be A LOT higher.

I never disputed the fact that Heroes gets better ratings. Find a post where I disputed that.

Season one was NOT as expensive to produce than season one, maybe they should go back to more family/ character / driven shows which had higher demo numbers. I miss the Birthday/Thanksgiving/Halloween/Christmas shows from season one. Maybe more Character stories and less "Famous Guess-star" of the week, and have the actual characters become more of the stars that people want to watch.

HAHAHA maybe you should do more research. Chuck had their budget trimmed going into season 2, as mentioned by TVGuide, Variety, and other media outlets. I'll be glad to find those articles for you, but I'm way too lazy right now.

For all those who want to continue to state things like Chuck is the most popular show on NBC and all the other shows on the network have lower ratings during one week or whatever just because you feel like stating...

Who ever said Chuck was NBC's most popular show?

"Medium, Parks and Recreation, and Southland all have worse demos than Chuck. Just look at how they're doing just based on their last couple of episodes. "

This a Typical statement by Buymoriaking1, Medium is now a CBS show and it averaged 2.4, Parks and Recreation and Southland also averaged 2.4, which was the same as Chuck. And based on their last couple of episodes their numbers got worse as the later in the season they aired. SO, they were doing much better than Chuck only to be dragged down by the last episodes. So to state that "All have worse demos than Chuck", well it seems kind of ???????. If you want to continue to post in "Ratings" thread, I would suggest something stretched around Facts would be a good start.

Maybe I oversimplified that first part of that statement, but my argument remains. Just take a look at how those shows ratings have been after their premieres. Medium has slowly gone down and the past couple of weeks averaging below Chuck's demos. P&R and Southland absolutely cratered in the ratings. While Chuck was slowly growing the last 3 episodes, P&R and Southland just kept on falling, eventually below Chuck's average. That's a FACT.

On a similar note, this airing of shows later in the spring is part of my concern, as May comes along fewer people watch and demos are down. With Chuck airing in March 2010, I don't know if they can hold the 2.4 that they had. I would think they would need to do better than "Day One" does to stay on the schedule. NBC looks like they will be having mini-seasons of 13-16 episodes for a few shows to see how they do ?compete against each other? At least that's what it looks like on a couple of nights.

Not concerned at all.