I tried multi level marketing before the internet existed. It is hard enough getting people to buy into your "scheme" face to face, online it is next to impossible. The schemes rely on personal relationships to grow. I was also unwilling to bug my friends and family until they think I am so irritating that they avoid me.

These companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't want you to be successful. They just want to move their product.

If Arbonne's brand is so precious they shouldn't be devaluing it by using multi-level marketing.

I too am a Arbonne consultant. However, when you sign up for your account you do receive a "Policies and Procedures" manual that explains in great detail the do's and don'ts of internet advertising. It also explains about the websites that were grandfathered in prior to the rule change. As a former network marketer of another company that did not regulate their consultants websites, I can guarantee you that it is best for a company to restrict the websites allowed by their consultants. I appreciate the fact that Arbonne does make it a fair and equal playing field for all consultants. Yes, there are a few consultants that have their own personal websites. But, I've been around long enough to know some of the ones that have their own websites and know for a fact that they did not build their business by website alone. This is a people to people business and takes one on one contact to really be successful. Also, nobody is required to purchase a company website. Most of the people in my upline and on my team do not own a website. It is a personal choice and is offered to those that want one. I have had nothing but a positive experience with Arbonne and look forward to continued success!

First of all Joel, you missed the whole point of having the Arbonne web site. It is a convenient way for your customers to shop and to get referrals from Arbonne.It's not suppose to be a major marketing tool to grow your business. This company is one- on- one, face - to -face. And Pam April 12th was correct in pointing out that apparently you didn't read the rules and regulations. Everything you were complaining about is addressed in the policy manual and at the myarbonne site. Arbonne is about Swiss Skin care first and the opportunity to share that at a discount second. And a business third. It has to be a fit for you - you to be at a place in your life where you don't what to work for someone else anymore.To need that home - based busines for a tax write off or just to win a free vacation.It sounds like you were just looking for another way to make money on-line. Whoever sponsored you unfortunately did you a disservice by leading you to believe that Arbonne was the answer.Sounds like your wife likes the products and that's what Arbonne is about. Plus now you still get a discount so all isn't lost.
And Igor April 19 - sounds like you are in a cult now!
Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group - don't we do that in corp. america every day?
Uncritically accept its teachings - Heard of freedom of speech? There is no Arbonne god that will strike you down if you disagree or ask a question or choose not to do a presentation a certain way. The best thing about MLM's is that we are independent and have our own businesses. Get it?
Conform to their behavioral restrictions -
Let me tell you - I worked in a union grocery store for 18 years.You want to talk about restrictions!
Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company - Are you talking about Arbonne or some sick relationship you had? I don't know how having a choice to resign once a year for $15.00 to keep my wholesale account open can be misjudged as a pemanent commitment.
Please don't talk about a company that you obviously don't know the first thing about!People who don't like MLM's aren't going to understand because they aren't looking at it from the right angle. Have you every be in a rut for so long that you forgot what is was like to learn and grow and socialize with adults? Or to find a product that for the first time actually worked?! And then for a company to care about you sharing what you have found with a friend and then sends you a check? You might be on the lookout for the next get rich quick. That's not what it's about - I'm in it to better myself as a person and maybe to help some others along the way.Arbonne isn't a cult or a get rich quick. It's just a chance for some personal growth disguised as a lip-stick company. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you need some "personal growth" of your own!

I'm actually in the process of trying to decide if I want to be an Arbonne consultant or not. I've never tried MLM and have run the other way when any of my friends have invited me to any of their parties. I don't like people to pressure me to sponsor a party or give them names of 5 of my friends who might be interested in having a party. I went to an Arbonne meeting last week and was pretty impressed with the "business" aspect of it...I know it's growing very fast and I'm just wondering if I should catch the wave while it's still hot.

Joel -

Thanks for posting your story. I wanted to sell on ebay and online too, and researched first before I got into it. Thank goodness I found your page here, before I sunk any money into Arbonne. I have ZERO interest in the Party Plan of Arbonne, and the idea of MLM makes my skin crawl. But it is getting to be a popular product, and sells really well on ebay. There are a ton of people selling Arbonne on ebay, and I have to believe at least some of them have wholesale accounts and are selling against Arbonnes wishes. In fact, some have a disclaimer that says "Arbonne does not endorse products sold on Ebay" or something like that. Selling magazine subscriptions on ebay is also frowned on by the industry, but there are 1000 listings every day. I wouldn't order subscriptions any other way. I wonder how Arbonne tracks down sellers on ebay, and determines who is selling against policy? Not that I want to bother trying it now....

Arbonne seems to insist on that face to face selling aspect to sell product or sell the selling of product. That I can live with to an extent. I don't care for the multi-level marketing setup. I don't care what you call it, it is still a pyramid setup. The people down on the lower levels struggle to make money and do all of the true selling work. The higher you are in the organization the easier it is for you and the more money you make. I have met people that have invested thousand of dollars on simular setups only to have thousands of dollars of product in their garage that they cannot sell for enough money to make a profit. You can dress a pig in a suit but it is still a pig.

Arbonne is a good product, an expensive product, but still high quality. So is Amway, but they are well known for their unfair marketing setup. I want to trust in this product but I feel that they may want more to sell me product at wholesale prices than to help me earn my "Mercedes". I cannot blindly trust someone just because they tell me I should.

Just had to mention for all who are seeking info. you don't have to make a huge investment to work with Arbonne - Arbonne discourages frontloading, in otherwords, we don't buy products to sell... your customers will buy their products online (albeit through Arbonne's direct website or one approved by them) and they will be delivered directly to their door - as an Arbonne consultant you never have to stock up and then desperatly try to sell your stock - and you do not have to drive all over town dropping off product... much different from the other MLMs I've seen! So what if the website has to be approved by them?? You simply pass the url on to your customers and they log on with their Registration # and pin and shop away. Also - I used to work for an internet marketing company - to PROPERLY optimize your website for the search engines we used to charge thousands of dollars... to do it correctly - in light of that I think Arbonne's offer is a deal.

I am an Arbonne consultant and have been in the business for two years. I absolutely love both the products and the business. I have found that Arbonne always compensates their consultants generously and they always treat us fairly while educating us about the products. I have never heard Arbonne say that their products are all natural. On the other hand, I have heard confused consultants claim that Arbonne's products are all natural. Legally, they have to have preservatives in their prodcuts. They have always been up front about what is in their products. As for your website problem, I don't have a lot of input on that other than I personally have more success with meeting someone face to face. Because my friends want to help me succeed, they are always willing to help me meet new people. Ultimately your business depends on you and what you do with it. If want to succeed you won't let the little things get in your way.

You would all make much more money and "keep" your family and friends if you worked part-time at a cosmetic counter at a department store. Time is money and the time involved in selling this product, not to mention all the products and selling techniques videos they push you to buy....well, the money just doesn't add up. If you actually believe you are working for yourself, you are sadly mistaken. No need for negative comments regarding my lack of knowledge in Arbonne and how they run things. I'm very well versed in this area, as well as other MLM. If you can afford it, taking a business management course would give you a better direction and a better knowledge at how a real business is run.

Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.

For those of you who are interested, Arbonne now has a FREE training site for registered consultants at www.arbonneuniversity.com.

Hi. Just read through most of these comments since I have some spare time which is getting more abundant as I grow my Arbonne business. Been with the company three years now and just earned my Mercedes CLK320 Convertible. I always heard and read (not from Arbonne by the way), give network marketing three to five years of truley putting in an effort. I love Arbonne! I always ran from network marketing but was so impressed with the products and the ingredients that I had to research this company very carefully. Was blown away by the integrity of the company later on. I WAS a Chem. Eng. and I make more money now than I did doing the other. I spend much less time doing this business obviously. Know many engineers working less than 40 hours a week? Yes it isn't easy to build an organization. It takes time, persistance and patience; but for me, it is so worth it. Getting to this level and helping the team move up is so much more than I imagined. Moving up the ladder is hard to do in corporate world especially if I have to wait for them to retire or they expire plus I get to pick who I get to work with! My family and friends don't hate me either. They are thrilled at my success and love the products too.

If I knew that being where I am now was this good, I would have put more effort and time (maybe 15 to 20 hours/week) to reached this point in my business sooner. I really don't put more than 10 hours a week into it. My children and family are far, far better for my efforts too. My spouse will be starting to build his own organization through Arbonne soon.

Those of you looking to sit behind a computer would do better at selling other stuff on ebay or watching your investment in the stock market. Me, I prefer to be with people, create some fantastic relationships and realize personal growth along with helping others. FYI - I use my website to send my clients to for information and setting up their own account, not to retail products. I could go on but I won't and some of you might be grateful that I didn't. He-he.

Someone mentioned a pyramid scheme. Draw out the structure of building a network marketing group were anyone on the bottom can get to the top and bypass those above if they work it hard enough. My organization doesn't look like a pyramid, it looks like a spider. However, draw out corporate America according to it's structure. CEO at the top, then VPs, then upper management, middle management, general employees, office staff etc. Looks like a triangle to me. Does anyone get to move up from the mailroom to the top whether those above them want them to or not? Corporate America paid me well but I still traded time for money. May be some of those who have posted comments don't know and should that in a pyramid scheme no product changes hands, it's illegal and that a company operating on those conditions would be out of business by the feds in a heartbeat. Arbonne has been around for 25 years and debt free at that. Probably a little more security than what corporate America offers. My father worked forty-three years, more than forty hours a week, and they retired him at 40% less because they did a mini-Enron before Enron.

I never frontloaded product and no one on the team has ever implied that a consultant should do so. In fact, we are strongly discouraged to do so. We only purchase personal use products and just enough product to be tooled for building a business which depends on your reach methods. Personally, I do believe you should make a descent investment in the tools you will need according to the reach out methods you choose. I don't believe you will make upper management just by getting a $29.00 account membership and don't know anyone who has done so. Just like any business, you need to purchase the tools to be successful and work. The client's product is ordered and shipped directly to the client through Arbonne's main website or approved Arbonne website such as mine. Rarely do I deliver product.

For those of you looking to make a difference in the health and wealth of others I can't say enough about the potential of Arbonne. It is a vehicle that can be used to help others and attain time and financial freedom as well as just make a little extra money. It is up to the individual and your effort. There are no guarantees. Well, actually, there is a 45 day money back guarantee on product.

I would be glad to answer any questions about building a business with Arbonne.

Take it for what it's worth... In addition to really doing some due diligence on the company, choose your upline manager's well. Are they successful (Is the person who sponsored them in upper management, and the person who sponsored them, etc... successful), do they support the team, check out their trainings and group meetings and what is their preferred reachout method? Some love home parties, some love sample & follow up and some love one on ones. Choose an upline that helps you find your fit, helps you grow as you go and stays connected even after training. Go meet the team!

The only training I have paid for is by my choice (not promoted by Arbonne) and deals with personal growth and leadership. Highly recommend John Maxwell's leadership and teamwork programs.

Wishing everyone personal growth, prosperity and time freedom whether you jump on the Arbonne opportunity or choose another. Those who choose not to educate themselves on network marketing may be wise to read Rich Dad Poor Dad or something from Robert Kiosaki's collections.

Sure counting my blessings everyday!

Wow....Joal...I hate to say it but you're a moron. Geez..all of your "arguments" are easily debunked...so folks...don't listen to him. My wife is a National Vice President with Arbonne. We've been with them for only two years and her monthly income is over $25,000 and growing. This business is exploding! And by the way...we don't do "parties" and we don't need whatever little bit you could make off of ebay. EBAY!? ...come on. Who has time to bother with it. I'm too busy being on the golf course! Friends...if you're reading this and wanting financial freedom...get aboard NOW! Email me and I'll explain how easy this business is..how legitimate it is and how much fun it is.

Are you people insane? Nobody is making $25,000 a month selling cosmetics. To make that much money, you'd have to be grossing $100,000 of sales a month, more or less, and I doubt that Dave or anybody else has that many friends who want to buy bogus "Formulated in Switzerland" skin products. Take a look at the label if you want an idea of how bogus Arbonne is: It says "Swiss" and "Suisse" all over it, but when you get to the fine print, it's not really Swiss at all, it's simply "Formulated" (whatever that means - it's left purposefully vague) in Switzerland. The name "Arbonne" may sound Swiss, but Arbonne is a village in the Pyrenees in south-western France and is nowhere near Switzerland. If you're a dishonest huckster and don't mind getting people to overpay for a dishonest product, or if you have no qualms about exploiting the labors of those who come below you in the pyramid scheme, then Arbonne is for you. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the rest of us alone.

Wow...I'm simply amazed at the ignorance that is thrown around as "wisdom" and "fact". Mr. "Get Real", I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. You're creating your own fiction and deciding to call it "fact" no matter the evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure why such hostility but I'll try to quickly answer Get Real's comments.

First, "Formulated" means, developed, created and then tested to make sure it's safe and that it works. And then it's manufactured in the USA. What's so hard about that? Many products today are not designed and developed in the same place they are manufactured. Callaway golf clubs are designed in California, but made in China. Is Callaway therefore a Chinese company?? And btw..nobody says Arbonne is from Arbonne FRANCE. The Arbonne Institute of Research and Development (AIRD), which you can see pictures of on the Arbonne website, is in Switzerland, specifically Sion, Switzerland. Nobody's trying to hide those facts. It's called "Swiss" because it's developed in Switzerland by mostly, European herbalists and chemists who use Swiss and European herbal and botanical principles in the approach to product formulation. But they are made in the USA and the company is based in California. NO SECRETS THERE!! Hey...the products work, and that's what counts. If you don't like the product...don't use it. My results were more than satisfactory and I have had skin problems since my teen years. If you doubt me, contact a consultant and ask for a sample or take advantage of the 45-day guarantee. Most people who try the products like them..A LOT. That's been our experience. What can I say?

As far as the money comments by Get Real, you're right, we don't sell $100,000 worth of product every month. We only personally sell about $2500, if that. But our organization, all the people under us, sell a total of $500,000 each month. And that number is growing so fast. We'll be a million dollar organization by October if not earlier. And I know people in Arbonne making over 6 figures monthly. My wife's checks are actually below average for an NVP...although she's a new NVP which is the main reason. And don't tell me the people who are making $100K plus per month are lying. I've been to there homes. It's real. I see how many people they've promoted and can do the math myself.

And frankly, nobody in Arbonne who has been successful is teaching that you can be successful and make big money by selling on ebay, or thru your website. It's about duplication. You teach others to sell a little bit, and they teach others to sell a little bit, and so forth, and you get a small commission on the total of everybody. Duplication is the name of the game. You can't do this business hiding in your home office. It takes work. It takes talking to people.

Because you've had a bad experience with another network marketing company, or because you weren't successful with Arbonne, doesn't mean it's not real or that others aren't successful.

There are three reasons people are not successful with Arbonne and none of them involve the company or the products. (But I'll agree that in some companies it might just be the products or the company. Not with Arbonne though.)

The first reason is the person just doesn't do anything. They sign up, buy some product but then don't get into the activity of selling it. They somehow think it will happen automatically.

The second reason is they don't follow the training. Then decide to find an "easier" way. Most of the time the "easier" way is not duplicatable, isn't effective and doesn't work. But instead of following the lead of the successful people and doing what THEY did, this type decide Arbonne doesn't work because their method didn't work. This is where you ebay and website people fall. No RVP or NVP got to that level with ebay or their website sales, but you think it's a fraud since those methods didn't work for you. The way to succeed is to find someone who's been successful and do what they're doing. There are over 500 RVPs and NVPs across the country. By next month there will be 600. They'll be happy to tell you how they did it. Go on the Arbonne website and read their stories. Everyone is there and they tell how they did it.

And the third reason people fail is they're just not likable. Other people don't like you, trust you or respect you, so they don't want to work with you. If you're negative, cynical, hostile, uncoachable and pessimistic you might fall into this catagory. I suggest you read Dale Carnagie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and begin to work on yourself. Because you'll not only fail at Arbonne, you'll fail in many other areas too that involve relationships.

Bottom line success in Arbonne is real if you do three things. Get into activity and stay in activity. Duplicate what successful people are doing. And be the kind of person others will want to follow. It's not complicated, but for many it's very hard. And I'm sorry for those who find this recipe hard. I hope you can find the inner strength that it takes to change yourself so it becomes easier and you find success in whatever you do.

Personally, I don't care if Get Real or Joel, or any other negative or skeptical person who posts here ever finds success. But I do care if their attitude drags someone else down who otherwise could find success with Arbonne. Our experience has been life changing and extremely rewarding. The timing is now. So don't wait. Contact me if you need more info.

Dave

Okay..quick comments to finish with Get Reals post. Cosmetics is a trillion dollar industry worldwide. What do you mean nobody is making money selling cosmetics??? Wow, check the revenues of your major cosmetic companies.

Next, nobody is being dishonest, or a huckster. You need proof? I'll print out our last year's statement and you can see our monthly override checks. But yeah...because we did it, doesn't mean you can. I'll agree with that for the reasons I meantioned above.

As far as over priced goes...you're wrong there too. Compare prices of Arbonne to Lancomb or Clinique and our retail prices are comparable or cheaper. Take off the 35%+ discount and they're a bargain compared to department store cosmetic counter competitors.

As far as the pyramid scheme thing...If I had a real job, where would I be in THAT pyramid? And what are my chances of getting to the top? In my Arbonne business I'm at the top of my organization and anyone in my organization is at the top of their's. We all have equal opportunity to reach the top pay level because it's based on productivity. Not luck, or politics or being liked by the boss or by hoping the person above you quits, gets fired or dies. When we joined Arbonne there were 33 NVPs. Now there are over 100. Did General Motors add 70 Presidents to THEIR pyramid last year? Something to think about.

After being with Arbonne for two months, 5 parties and lots of samples later, what do I get?? ZERO sales!! Nuthin', Nada, Zilch! I tried their weight loss program and gained 7 lbs in 2 weeks. I love their skin care, but Arbonne is not meant to be.

I'm going to the gym with the Figure 8 money that I was setting aside for. I get free childcare too. Definitely more worth it than Arbonne.

Wow - I am a new consultant with the puppy dog program - I am excited - I know that it works (both the product & the program) - I, too, have fears (that is what it is) that everyone I know & love will think "oh no - I hope she doesn't talk about Arbonne again". That being said - I am willing to put in the effort & work and really want it to happen. I am using this website as a referral for my friends who are thinking about becoming a consultant. This way they can see both sides and hopefully see the fear and negativity which prompted some to fail... and courage that others had to succeed and I mean SUCCEED!!!

I'm confused a bit... Arbonne is an expensive product... only people with a decent amount of money can afford it... so, most are people who are reasonably bright, at least... you are directed to your consultant's website for actual purchasing... Arbonne offers on their website a $29 "membership" that gets you those expensive products at 35% off... you'll pay for the membership instantly... who in their right mind would pay more?!?

And if we're selling to our friends and family, then surely we'd let them know about the 35% off deal. Right?

So, 35% margin will only happen when selling to morons that you don't like too much, right?

I have to say dave you have posted some of the best comments in here! I too am district manager and area by next month that 3 months total to be making 3k a month i think thats not too shabby. I was wondering if you and your wife did the puppy dog system to grow your buisness? I also was wondering if all of you new consultants new who acutally started the puppy dog way? Their names are Jerry and Rachelle nichols. They started it in oklahoma and brought to arizona where it is just booming. I owe my whole success to them for creating this amazing new way of doing the buisness. I think he gets left out and not everyone knows his amazing story. It is because of him that i am going to be getting my car in september this year that is 5 months from start to finish. To all of you skeptics out there you cant knock something if you havent tried it. Rich dad Poor Dad is the best book i have ever read i recommend it to every person especially you fellow arbonnians :) Good luck to all of you out there and thanks Dave for you awesome insight!

Once again, I would ask the scam artists to please stop preying on the credulous and the desperate. The puppy dog system is a pyramid scheme, pure and simple. You pay $1,500 or so for four kits, get four gullible friends to take them and then sign up to buy another $1,500 worth of kits, and then you earn money on your friends' purchases. The catch - and there's always a catch - is that you have to buy $70 or so of products EVERY MONTH in order to earn "upstream" revenues. So the pyramid scheme only works when 1) you're wasting your family's money on buying Arbonne's bogus, new age cosmestics; and 2) the people you're preying on downstream are also buying the products. But sooner or later the house of card falls apart, because the people at the very bottom eventually realize they're on the bottom and can't find anybody to scam into the pyramid, and they stop buying the products. The people one rung up from them then stop buying the products, because they don't have anyone beneath them sending revenue upstream anymore, and pretty soon everyone realizes it's a scam and stops paying high prices for lotions in Arbonne's pretty bottles. If you get in at the top, you've already made a pretty penny, but if you're at the middle or the bottom you lose, and all your supposed friends who claimed they would change your life have exploited you to take money away from you and your family.

Now I know that the Arbonne people on this web site are going to sceam at me for being "negative", but that's exactly right - I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves.

Joel, You are welcome to join our yahoo club called mlmsurvivorsclub. You can find it also on the www.mlmsurvivor.com website. I have been involved in a few mlm's and party plans and the mlm's are the worst as far as deception goes (by the higher ups). We have lost thousands of dollars chasing a "dream" of making it in an mlm that has never paid out the way they promise. I wish you the best! Stay away from mlm's!! -Jennifer

Hi! I, too signed up as an Arbonne consultant, but have not "acted" on it, because I could not host any classes. Now, with the puppy dog system it is doable. However, I have questions regarding the income. My friend who signed me up won't answer my questions regarding how much she makes, so I thought I try this forum instead. If I invest the time and the money, I would like to know if it's worth it. The overrides are a bit confusing. Seems to me that if you are a DM, and your retail volume is say $5K, you only get 8% off of the 65% override volume ($3250), which equals $260. My friend is qualifying for AM this month, so if she has a RV of $10K, that means she only makes $520, correct? That sounds like peanuts to me and not the thousands of dollars people are claiming to make. It seems Dave lives in a high-income area, which we don't. Can anybody give me some real incomes of DM's and AM's or even consultants? Also, how much RV do I have to have to make say $800 per month? Thanks!

First Andrea...

Yes, your math is correct. You'd get an override of $260. But if you had 5 signups in that month you'd also get the DM bonus of $200. If you had any of your signups go with the RSVP order you'd get $50 for each of those. Your friend at Area would make the $520 plus her DM bonus as well if she had $5000 in her District and 5 signups for a total of $720 plus any RSVP bonuses. Once she gets to Area that same volume would get her an additional $390. So if $800 a month is what you're after, get to Area and you'll have it. No one makes big pay checks at District. It's a building process like any other business. (I'm sure that Bill Gates makes a bigger paycheck today than he did the first year Microsoft was founded.) It may not seem like much at first, but I'd bet if you figure out the hourly wage it would be equal, if not better, than working at Walmart or almost any parttime job.

Your friend however should be willing to tell you what her last override check was. Also, if you got to the Arbonne web site you will find a section listing the average bonus and override payouts per quarter at each level.

Now to Ed..
Come on Ed....do you really think Arbonne is trying to pull something over on us? I'm sure there's an explanation. At NTC this year they had a slide show of the place. There have been National Vice Presidents who have visited it. I'm asking myself, and getting no answer, "what would be the purpose, what motive, or how would this benefit the bottom line of the company, to talk about a place that doesn't exist?" And how would they get all these NVPs who have gone there to get on board with keeping up the illusion?? I don't know what the rules are in Switzerland about business listings, but it's not a retail store. The don't need to advertise. It's a private research laboratory. Only the people who work there need to know where it is.

This kind of reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze 8 or 9 years ago where there were all these stories of people unable to find where Ty, the manufacturer, was located, like there was some big conspiracy. Reporters were all over the Chicago area asking people where this Ty company was located and nobody knew. They weren't in the phone book either. hmmmmmmm...interesting.

Yes Ed, your question is simple enough...but irrelevant don�t you think? Unless you�re accusing Arbonne of fabricating a story about a fictional research laboratory, what difference does it make if the place is or isn�t listed in the phone book? But I guess that�s what you�re doing so that�s why it matters what is on your mind. The explanation is surely a simple one as I said, but is it really worth spending time on it? There's not one good reason to make such a story up. The suggestion is simply ludicrous.

So if I take you up on your suggestion, Ed, that I "prove you wrong"....what will that accomplish for you personally? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you needing therapy because of this question? Are you afraid that your uncertainty will cause undue harm to someone? I don't get why this is such a burning question for you. You really believe that a 25 year old company would be perpetrating a fraud so they could sell more product with the �Swiss� name on it and that after 25 years of a spotless record YOU are the first person to figure this caper out and report on it? It�s just silly, sorry to say. So if I provide an address, or an explanation for your inability to track down this international conspiracy, what do I get in return? An apology? You see it�s not worth my time to bother. I know individuals who have been there and they have no reason to lie. I�ve seen their pictures. Up until recently the pictures of NVP Jeanne Sterner�s visit were right on the Arbonne website. It�s such a moot point I can�t believe I�m even commenting on it!

Joel, it's interesting I found your blog today on this topic! I was looking at my hits to my blog where I also discussed this topic. My time is up as of July 4, 2005, and I completely agree with the frustration you have experienced trying to sell online. I have also noticed that some consultants could do things to advertise online and others are not allowed to do so. Replicated sites are worthless in the search engines, whether we pay $39 or not to promote them. I got www.ShareSkinCare.com to promote it so I wouldn't have the product name online. It's just God telling me to stick with my artwork :) and not get tempted by any more direct sales...so I'm going to listen to Him this time! (if you check out shareskincare.com you will see I have removed any promotion from there, and when the time is up, I am going to forward the link to my art site).

I'm sorry I had lost touch with you, I am still interested in doing some art for you if you are interested, please contact me. Sorry we lost touch somehow.

Ed- So glad someone else has had the same doubts about Arbonne's supposed Swiss-ness. I called the Registre de Commerce (Business Registry) in Sion, Switzerland (+41 27 322 92 05), and the officials there say there is no "Arbonne" registered in the Canton of Valais, nor have they ever heard of anything named "Arbonne". Sion is a town of just under 20,000 people, so if there were in fact an "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development" in Sion, Switzerland (As Dave, the guy whose wife supposedly makes $25k a month, claims in the post above), you would think that the Business Registry would at least have heard of the place. I, too, have asked Arbonne, Inc. for more details on the "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development", and they have avoided the request. This just seems like one more reason to avoid the company altogether.

I'll supply an address, Ed, or at least a description of the location if I can. Frankly, I've never been there so I can't tell you first hand where to find it. I'm sure it's not a huge place. There's probably only 10 or 12 employees. I have written to one of the NVPs who has been there, and by the way, has a picture of her standing in front of the place on her Eye On Arbonne. (EOAs are printed success stories from VPs) However, since I'm so confident the place exists and since your are adamant that it doesn't...so much so that you now have "Get Real" piling on....I'm tempted to suggest a little wager. How much can you afford to lose??

Hi Dave,
There is no need for a bet, I have good faith in you, if the place exists you will come up with an address and phone number. I have no complaint about Arbonne products and it seems MLM marketing schemes are here to stay in spite of what I think of them.
My point is, if...and I say IF, a company is going to plaster the Swiss flag all over their products and claim that they are formulated in Switzerland in their research laboratory and the whole thing turns out to be a fabrication then I think that would speak volumes about the scruples of the people that are running the company, don't you?

Hi Dave,
I have also found the address and phone number of Pierre Bottiglieri. I have a call into SCC which according to Arbonne is the organization he is supposed to be president of (he is not the president by the way) and he is supposed to call me back....so far there has been no reply. I will let you know the moment I hear something.
Regards, Ed

Hi Ed,
At this point I think I have the story straight and I will admit that I was under a misconception about AIRD. But having said that, I don�t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne. The whole explanation and history would take far too much space here to go into and would be pretty useless, but I�ll try to share enough of what I�ve learned to satisfy your inquiry.

First, you�re right in the sense that AIRD does not exist as a specific place. At least not yet. That is certainly a misconception on my part, but I must add, that misconception wasn�t really because of anything Arbonne actually said or states in any literature. I misinterpreted information and made a conclusion without all the facts. The pictures I saw were of the facility that, at the time, had been set aside to work exclusively on Arbonne products, and not owned by Arbonne. I�m actually grateful to you for allowing me the opportunity to clear this up in my own understanding.

In essence, AIRD historically has been a team of professional chemists, herbalists and master skin care professionals who are coordinated by Arbonne to develop the ideas and science needed to create Arbonne products. In the early days many of these researchers including Pierre, were indeed part of Arval, whose owner was a friend of Arbonne�s founder. In recent years, Arbonne�s team has employed several labs throughout Switzerland to take the ideas of the AIRD team, create the formulations, do the testing, and turn them into the products Arbonne then manufacturers in California.

Also, as Arbonne grows, the concept of AIRD is also continuing to evolve. Pierre is now working in a temporary lab devoted solely to Arbonne product research as Arbonne is, in fact, in the process of being registered globally. Additionally, AIRD will soon include chemists from several other countries to contribute to product development and will have their own facility to formulate, test and even manufacture Arbonne products.

I hope this clears it up to your satisfaction and I apologize for my errors.

Hi All...
(Off the subject of AIRD) I had a baby 6 weeks ago and wasn't sure I'd be able to stay at home with her. But I am having major success with this business and not only will I be able to stay at home with her, but I am going over and beyond what my corporate job paid me. I was going through the motions of my day-to-day job, seeing the same people everyday, going to the same meetings, sitting in the same break room, working the same hours, driving the same roads, getting the same paychecks (even though my work-load was getting bigger). I have always been shy but have wanted to make a change and meet new folks. This business has forced me to come out of my shell and meet new friends and I am having the best time of my life in addition to making money! Arbonne is a lifestyle! It is a life-altering product as well as business opportunity. I never knew I could have so much fun while bringing in income.
To all you new consultants like me... don't give up! It may take a couple of no-show parties but ultimately you will get there! Don't get discouraged by these folks on here who didn't give it much of a chance.
thanks...serra in california

Ed�
I don�t know what to tell you at this point. It�s a matter of how you interpret the information you have. I can agree that the letter you say you received from Arbonne would lead you to believe they own their own lab. But it doesn�t actually say that. It also doesn�t say AIRD is a building. If AIRD is a team of Arbonne coordinated researchers, it could just mean they conduct their business in Sion. Personally, understanding what I know now, I think the letter is factually correct. But I agree it could be misconstrued. As far as the quotes from consultant web sites go, this is a prime example of why Arbonne needs to be so strict with upholding the rules of what a consultant can claim, where and how they can advertise and what kinds of documents they attach the Arbonne logo to. Even Joel�s opening sentence on this board is factually wrong. Arbonne does not now, nor have they ever, advertised their products as �All Natural�. But someone hears it said and passes it along and it suddenly is considered a �fact�.

Bottom line is this: Arbonne products are indeed formulated, tested and perfected in Switzerland by Swiss and European researchers in Swiss laboratories and then manufactured in the U.S. and distributed by independent consultants throughout the U.S. and Canada. Arbonne products incorporate the latest science and technology and the highest quality ingredients to create products that are pure, safe and beneficial to the end user. There are literally hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers who would attest to that.

I realize that I can�t change your mind if you�re so down on Network Marketing so I�m not going to continue with this specific conversation. (And admit that it�s network marketing that you�re against because if Arbonne products were sitting on a shelf in your local salon you would have no interest in scrutinizing them as you are.) All I can say is I love the products and would use then even if I wasn�t in the business. As Arbonne continues to expand and their sales continue to explode it is only a matter of time before Arbonne is a household name like Mary Kay or Pampered Chef. Those who join this business have a great opportunity to build a fabulous income and lifestyle. Right now I�m sitting here looking out the window at my wife�s E-320 and my brand new SUV and I�m deciding if I should play golf today, even though it�s a bit cloudy. I couldn�t do that two years ago.

Dave,
If I tell you "I have my own private castle in France" what does that mean to you?

To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear... and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.

Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.

My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.

By the way, for nearly three years I have hosted a forum here in Switzerland called �The Swiss Consumers Forum� to give people living in Switzerland a place to discuss things like this. I would like to invite you to join because the conversation about Arbonne is starting to heat up over there too. Your insight would lend some balance to the conversation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swissconsumersforum/

Regards, Ed

PS:
As for your wife�s Mercedes and your SUV...Congratulations!

Hi Claire, feel free to email me and I'll pass along my thoughts regarding your request.

Ed, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because you�re seeing it different than I am. I don�t interpret the �Suisse� on the bottle or the �Formulated in Switzerland� to mean it�s a Swiss company. It�s not a Swiss company. It�s owned by primarily by an American investment company and managed by mostly Americans. The company was founded in Europe by a Norwegian, Petter M�rck, and his son, Stian, has a predominant role in running the company now that the founder has basically retired. Arbonne does not advertise itself as Swiss company. They advertise their products as being formulated in Switzerland, which is true, using herbal and botanical formulations that are based on Swiss and European principles and methods. To the cynic it might sound like a marketing ploy, but it is really a statement of philosophy and an indicator of the kind of product it is. For example, most U.S. cosmetic companies use mineral oil as the base of their lotions. You won�t find a Swiss skin care, of any kind, using mineral oil. The Swiss thinking is that mineral oil isn�t good for your skin. When you see �Swiss� it simply means the product, formulated in Switzerland, conforms to Swiss standards. How can it be any clearer?

P.S. I think we're worn this one out. If you agree with Ed, then don't do Arbonne, don't buy the product and keep doing what you're doing and getting what you're getting. It doesn't matter. If you can comprehend the meaning of "Swiss" then I'm sure you're tired of this, as I am.

Aloha,

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Mahalo,
Shonna
Independent Consultant

Joel ~

Arbonne International promotes its marketing as 'network' rather than multi-level. There is a difference and my wife and I are glad there is. Network marketing means that you're not pushing someone else up the rungs. You can pass them up on the ladder to financial success, earn your bonuses and goodies along the way, and continue sharing the business opportunity with others who can do the same (including 'pass you on their way up').

This is an important difference because it allows a more lucrative program - only four levels of management in Arbonne's case. And that's one of the most attractive features of being involved with Arbonne. It's 'multi-level' that's given home-based business efforts a bad name - someone's always pushing you to produce as they realize more income from your hard work. Some programs are so top-heavy that all you'll ever see is other people's butt ... you'll never have the opportunity offered by Arbonne to 'make it to the top,' 'go to the beach,' whatever you want to call your desired level of success.

We have a my.arbonne website and are happy to refer our prospective consultants/business builders to it. We have it to show a level of professionalism and expand our ability to communicate with a greater number of prospects. We never intended to make a business of marketing product over the Internet. Imagine, if you will, thousands of wanna-be business gurus clamoring over themeselves with website presence, hoping for a piece of the pie. That's not the kind of business we want to 'enjoy.'

Arbonne is first driven by sharing the business opportunity. The products virtually speak for themselves. It's the personal testimonies of people who use Arbonne products that bring more sales consultants into the fold. The integrity of the brand and the ethical business practices of the growing thousands of consultants will continue to make Arbonne the envy of the network marketing industry.

Thanks for being there.

Dave Smith

Dear Joel, I just signed up as an Arbonne consultant and received my first order. My complaints are basic. There were no instructions (except on each item) on how to use the stuff; there is no good way to determine the best tints for a customer; there is no return item slip in the box. In fact I had to stay on hold 33 minutes before I talked to someone re my order. My upline person lives far from me and I have to pay for long distance to talk with her. Dotti

At this link I have shared my personal thoughts on this.

Hey Junkman...think what you want. Everything I said here is true and I'm not a "plant" for the company, but then it doesn't matter, small minded people think what they want regardless of the facts. I hope your girlfriend makes the right decision, whatever that is, and doesn't regret someday that she listened to you. You're what we call in this industry a "crab". Because you want to pull somebody down and keep them from escaping their situation and realizing their own dreams and desires, just like crabs to each other when thrown together in a bucket. I feel sorry for people like you, I really do. Your arrogance and attitude have probably not gotten you very far and they won't. Arbonne doesn't need you so please, feel very free to stay away.

Okay..Junkman�don�t post again and don�t respond. Make that a promise that we can hold you to. Please.

Your posts did nothing for the people who are sincerely trying to make a serious decision about their future or to elevate the nature of this discussion. I apologize to any reader who thought my original response to Junkman was too harsh.

The experiences I shared�.those �slick� �Too many stories�..were to illustrate how experiences in other environments and businesses can be applied to understanding experiences in this business. So let me run down why I said about you what I said.

Your first post lacked any intelligent thought or appearance of knowledge as anything I�ve read on this thread. You labeled me a �plant� for the company as if to say I�m paid to sit here and respond to this kind of nonsense and to lie about the company so those really bad secrets you are sure exist don�t get out. You called me �slick� and untrustworthy when I�ve made it a point to spell out my experience with this company in an honest attempt to give people reading a sense of how to succeed; how WE succeeded. You referred to Joel as the author of comments that Ed made and you blathered on about coming up with your own mlm company and buying the same formulas that Arbonne buys..etc. Just plain sophomoric, uninformed waste of anybody�s time. You brought me into your condemnation of Arbonne in a way specifically intended to malign my efforts and my insights in the hope that you would influence readers to disregard anything I said.
I, my friend, was simply repaying the compliment. The tone was well deserved.

As far as your credentials, or mine, they have little to do with the concept of wisdom. Something you seem to have avoided in this endeavor. My satisfaction and reward in this business is not money. Anybody who has heard me train or speak know that. You can take my comment about my decision to leave radio for a higher paying job as being motivated by money, because I didn�t elaborate, but that wasn�t the whole story. The whole story was irrelevant to the point. Just like your degree and job experience is irrelevant to your advice to your girlfriend when you approach it from the view you have. Learn a little humility and comprehend the concept that without first hand knowledge about Arbonne and the people who manage the company and develop the products, you have little that you can offer to someone truly searching; except of course, your negative, condescending, insulting and utterly meaningless comments.

There is almost always this wording:

"it was a blessing,"

"I started on such and such a date and by this date I became National Vice President!" or some such thing.

"I earned my white Mercedes!"

"I do so much better than I did as a teacher!" (or whatever).

Then it usually ends with the trademark phrase:
"I love what I do!"

The phrases are almost always in that order.

I now actually start laughing out loud when I read that stuff!

I got all rah rah about the Mercedes also. I tried to get others on the bandwagon (luckily my friends are brighter than me) LOL.

RE the Puppy Dog thing, I must admit I don't know much about that system, because when I received the information in my email in-box from the upline, I rolled my eyes and deleted it. I'm sure it isn't what was meant by 'Puppy Dog System,' but the idea hit me that they were saying that I should string people along like puppies popped into my head and that was a TOTAL turn off to me.

Congratulations to those who could make it work, my hat is off to you.

Actually Dave, I'm quite happy for the people who can and did do it. Go back and read my last line.
And that will be my last line. I am done. I have a good at-home business, actually. I just believe people should see all sides of things and think for themselves. It is sad that you have to resort to insulting me to try to prove your point. So you have so many customers you have time to write 3 paragraph essays? Interesting.

Darla, seeing all sides of something is not accomplished by mocking the comments from Arbonne consultants who have expressed their feelings about what the business has done for them and their families. And believe me...what you were doing was mocking. There's nothing insulting about what I wrote. Your post showed an obvious lack of knowledge and your lack of knowledge prompted you to make conclusions that were unfair and untrue.

And frankly, I don�t enjoy taking the time, nor do I have the desire, to respond to ignorance. It�s a complete waste of time. Regarding genuine concerns and questions I enjoy the opportunity to share my comments in a sincere attempt to help people out. I can write 3 paragraph responses because I�m working from home, thanks to Arbonne, and I type fast.

Hi Everyone,
I am a former flight attendant for United Airlines who has turned to Arbonne for a way out of the "rat race". I love their products, botanically based, no animal by products, no mineral oil, or harmful chemicals. Anyone thinking of joining should go for it!! If you would like a sponsor in the MIAMI,FLORIDA area, email me, I would be glad to meet you.
To all you negative folks out there, best of luck to you too, your going to need it.

You "get rich quick", live beyond your means people make me sick.

Life's not about money.

Oh, and I already made it in the "B" sector.

Schmucks.

hey spunky no one is saying get rich quick or live beyond your means....this is a real "B" buisness and robert Kiyosaki says so himself so i wouldnt say that we are all trying to get rich quick..this buisness is hard and emotionally demanding but sooooo worth it and if you do not have the proper training or emotional stability then you will never get out of the rat race to do anything with your financial future. Im glad to hear that you have a "real B" but saying life isnt about money is so ignorant...without money we have nothing no means for shelter or food or pretty much anything...the poor focus on money more than the rich..the poor complain about not having enough money and thats alllll they think about...so re-evaluate your statement cause it isnt why any of us in arbonne do this buisness! Anyone in miami Fl contact terri she is an amazing person to work with and im so proud to have her as a part of my team in arizona love ya girl :)

I've been researching Arbonne and like everything except the fact that they charge their consultant for "training meetings". Typically employers so not "charge" their employees for a meeting. While I understand that technically each consultant is self employed, I do not understand their logic in charging. Keeping your staff or people who represent your company well informed and trained should be standard, not an "extra". Are all meetings sponsored by Arbonne? Perhaps some are local groups and that�s the reason for the charge, but still�Surely a debt free company can incur that cost right?

Thanks to everyone for a Great read. My wife and I will now go forward with excitement in this new business for us....God Bless!

My partner and I have been successful in establishing an Arbonne business in only three months. Gay Men LOVE skin care and that market is working great for us! Our business is exploding! Thanks for a great site!

Roger

So should my wife and I get in or not? We are sitting on the fence.

Stewart, I'd highly recommend you try it. It's worth the small fee and whatever investment you decide on. With the new "results approach" it's better in my opinion. As I said, I don't like the parties. Please let me know if you'd like more help on this. I'd love to help you and your wife. I need to sponsor more! Where do you live?

I just attended a Arbonne "party" and chose to become an independent consultant. I am glad I found this site because it solidified my decision. First, I didn't do it for the money, I was VERY impressed with the products. I've used everything from Mary Kay to Proactive to MD Formulations. None of these products made my skin feel as good as Arbonne. Second, I don't care if the product was formulated in some guy's garage, the quality is AMAZING! I have always been leery of MLM's, but with the low investment cost and a "low pressure" selling technique, just the personal use benefits alone are the reasons I chose to join. If in the future, I plan to expand the business I can. But personal testimonies and visible results are the best way to sell to friends and family and keep their respect.

By the way, I believe that the cost of training is a tax deductable expense (fees, transportation, food, lodging, etc.) but check with a Tax Advisor.

This is for DAVE...in speaking with a National VP that was attempting to get me involved with ARBONNE, she told me not to bother signing up if I couldn't place at least a $1000 order when I pay my $29. Now, I don't know about you but money doesn't grow on trees for me. Telling me all of the benefits of Arbonne but then limiting me to a $ figure or "don't bother" seemed like this just isn't an equal opportunity for everyone. Yes the product is great but let's take a look at the whole picture. I'm glad it is working for you. My goal is not a mercedes...I have 6 kids to put through college. This just seems too risky and the cost of the products alone makes it a difficult sell. I like it and I will just buy it on EBAY. I don't need to sell it to use it. As far as the "too good to be true", when Arbonne was touted to me as a great thing, I was told all you have to pay is $29 and you can succeed. When delving in a little deeper I learn this was not the case. I wasn't merely referring to only the posts on this site but all of the information I have gathered about Arbonne.
I like to be able to look at myself in the mirror and to sleep at night. Selling over priced skincare (albeit great skincare) to my friends and pressuring them to get involved, so I can move up the proverbial "ladder" of success, so I CAN have financial freedom is just a little too deceitful. Yeah, yeah if I tell them they can do it too the "chain" grows and inevitably we can all have a mercedes right? WE get out of it what we put into right? Yes, but at what cost?
This has MLM/Pyramid written all over it. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.

Shirles, There�s just so much that is flawed in what you said that I�m tempted to not respond. It�s getting tiring because it seems like the same things just keep coming up. And once again we�re going through this misconception that results in this �since I can�t do it then all of you who can are immoral� attitude. It�s your typical class envy that permeates American society today. If you�re wealthy and successful you must have gotten that way by stealing from and taking advantage of the poor and weak. It�s really sad we�ve come to that as a society. We should be celebrating hard work that results in success and teaching our young people to rely on themselves and not live for a government hand out every time they need something. Arbonne represents an excellent example of how average people can work hard and experience above average success to become self reliant. But some like to tear this down and claim it�s ill gotten.

Shirles, if an NVP told you (and I�m skeptical of that) that you HAVE to start with a $1000 order, she was wrong. However, if she told you that �to have the best opportunity for early success� you should start with a $1000 order, she was absolutely correct. There are at least two reasons why this is so. First, in order to promote to District Manager, which you want to do as fast as possible, you need $1000 retail order under your name. (btw at wholesale it�s $650 out of pocket) This order has to be during your qualification period. And it�s the only time you�re required to buy anything save the $100 monthly order required to receive any overrides. Secondly, if you want to sell product, you need product to sell. Anyone who is planning to do this business seriously needs to be equipped with the right tools or you�re just doomed to fail. What store opens to a lot of fanfare and then tells the customers, �I�m sorry we don�t have anything here to sell, but you can just order it and well call you when it comes in.�? While you CAN just sign up for $29 without a product purchase, and it may be possible to build from nothing, the reality is that it is much easier if you have some product on hand.

Also, Shirles, with all due respect, it�s also possible that this NVP you talked with was, in reality, trying NOT to encourage you to get involved. If you�re so hung up on the cost of the product and uncomfortable asking others to spend the money, then maybe she realized you are not a good fit for this business and was simply trying to set the bar too high for you. I can imagine working with you would be a real struggle because you�re so against the whole idea. I would not want to work with you having read your posts. There are too many people who are happy, excited, coachable and willing to jump right in that I don�t need to expend energy on building belief in someone who will just never look for the positive side of things. If you were someone who really wanted to be successful with this business you would get the necessary product training to understand why Arbonne�s products cost what they do. You�d be confident then that the R&D; and QC that goes into these products justify the cost and, in fact, makes them a bargain when compared to the competition.

And finally, we have never pressured anyone to buy the products or join the business. The most successful people we have on our team are the ones who, like us, experienced the quality of the product and realized the potential of sharing the product with a market place that demands the quality and results Arbonne offers. Anytime we�ve tried to work with someone who has a hundred reasons why they can�t make it, it�s been a failure. But I will concede that as Arbonne grows and the word gets out of the financial success being obtained, those who are all to willing to compromise their integrity to get what they want will be attracted to the business. It�s true of any business and unfortunate indeed. It�s why Arbonne has a very strict code of ethics and works very diligently to insure that consultants in the field are not saying things that are untrue. I encourage anyone who comes across questionable statements to call Arbonne and report it.

Yes, it�s very much a sales business and you have to believe in your product and believe that your product offers something your customer wants or needs and that the cost is a fair deal for all concerned. If you don�t believe that then it�s not a good fit and you should find something else. And there�s nothing wrong with that. I personally would have a hard time selling a lot of things, but I don�t consider those who do immoral. (Unless it�s illegal of course) What makes it wrong is when you say because it�s not a good fit for me, then everyone else who is doing it is deceitful, dishonest and a scoundrel. I just don�t understand the bitterness and that�s what I find so unfortunate in this conversation.

The product/company is not at the heart of this debate. It cannot be denied that many people can and do succeed in MLM. And they are to be commended for very hard work...in a tough and awkward industry. MLM becomes problematic when individuals sell a dream to friends/family that either do not have the skill set required to succeed or an ACCURATE understanding of what it takes to succeed. That�s the bottom line. MLM is NOT for everyone.

Also�Dave. If you are confident in your chosen profession and the company that facilitates it, you shouldn�t have to spend so much their defense. Both should be able to stand on their own.

To Arbonne or not to Arbonne??? Isn't it time you have an awkward conversation with a loved one?

An interesting post!
My wife and I have been involved with the Quixtar business since its inception, and with the Amway corporation for many years before that. As someone with a great deal of experience in MLM, and as someone who find research into MLMs interesting,

I AGREE WITH YOU. Most people aren't mature enough to build a company with others in mind. That's why we sing the praises of people like S. Truett Cathy, who founded Chick-Fil-A. That company exists solely to provide jobs to teens in a mentoring environment. If everyone were that mature, our world would be VERY different.

I'm not here to promote my business, or Quixtar. The principles involved are more important than any one business...

1. Any MLM business that requires you to build inventory to get started may be illegal. This is known as "front-loading" and is one of the marks of an illegal pyramid. Such businesses are almost inevitably shut down by the FTC within three years.

2. Any business that promotes the use of the phrase "ground floor opportunity" is likely going to disappear in about the same amount of time. Essentially, you have to imply that the business is a better deal NOW than it will be LATER...so everyone you involve later has less opportunity than you have.

3. Any MLM business that promotes itself as being about A PARTICULAR PRODUCT is in deep, deep trouble. You can't sustain a long-term business using a multi-level marketing model based on 'the next big thing'. Patents expire, people tire of fads, and competitors invent better, cheaper products...or a big news story kills your entire business, as happened to a health-shake company a while back.

4. Any MLM that tells you there's a shortcut to building a network is looking to rip you off. Such businesses are built one person at a time, face to face, and are entirely dependent on such relationships. I've fought any inclination by Quixtar to circumvent that process, and always will.

Again, not to promote my company over any other...but to point out the principles involved in a sound, long-term business model: Quixtar's message is that everyone gets the same deal, no matter what. Front-loading will get you kicked out, and any suspicious activity is investigated as dangerous to all others involved in the business. When one product loses steam, it can be replaced with another...the network isn't dependent on everyone's continued interest in last year's technology.

If you're looking into MLM, I applaud you. If your MLM violates these principles, I humbly suggest that you look to the future, to the well-being of your organization, and to those you have (or will have) involved and get out.

1) It will be August in a few days and it's time for Candace to share a pic of the car she allegedly will have by then and more importantly ...

2) I think Ed is my soul mate. Ed, are you married? If not, I'd like to cook and clean for you ... your posts made my day and I need to pay you back in some small way. I love how you were called out on a wager and asked "how much it was worth to you" to prove an actual research facility (which is not merely a file in another research facility) existed, and then all the sudden "oops, nevermind, but I don't think that should be held against them." PRICELESS!

Wow...now I am sure I made the right decision.
Thanks to all of you posted all of the information on MLM's. Sorry Dave, just know that you did what was right for you and leave it at that. I have never in my life been called a cynic. Just because I am not willing to jump into something you do doesn't make my choice wrong. You are right Arbonne and MLM isn't for me, but not for the reasons you think. Thank goodness I realized that before I dumped any money into it.
Have a great life and I hope for your sake you are very successful.

Wow...again...maybe you selected the wrong profession, perhaps psychology would suit you as well. My tone displays anger, bitterness and resentment? My husband and I are in stitches!
Better yet, stay with the Arbonne. Leave the diagnosing to the professionals.
I posted what I did to provoke others to think before they do. Yes, mine is only one perspective but if it helps someone to decide one way or the other then I'm glad to have helped. Isn't that what forums are all about? What I posted are my observations and opinions. Yes, I had a lot of questions and seemingly you are so offended by my conclusions that you have to now stoop to your psychological analysis.
Not good sound business tactics. Hopefully, you limit such behavior to forums only. I wish to close this discussion now as I have made my decision. We have made the decision that we feel is best for us.
Just take a deep inhalation and exhale letting it all go. Once again breathe in 1,2,3 hold for a moment and now...exhale. That's good.
God Bless!

Shirles�Laugh all you want. But with every post you demonstrate my point and betray your attempts to portray yourself as being objective. Your comments are full of emotional responses that have no objective criticism that would be useful to anybody wishing to make an OBJECTIVE and informed decision. (Look up �objective� in the dictionary if you�re unclear on what that means.)

It�s not necessary to be a psychologist to label your comments the way I did. And by the way�.it�s no crime to be a cynic, nor is it insulting. I�m cynical about any number of things in this world and with regard to some things I would wear the label �Cynic� as a badge of honor. In those cases I believe my cynicism is defendable. My problem with your comments is that they display emotion that can only be attributed to resentment or bitterness about the industry, the company, the products or the way you were introduced to them. Why can I make that claim? Because if your complaint was an objective one, you would probably not felt the need to post your initial comments indicating that you thought there was �deception� involved with the company. You didn�t post that you felt the product was too expensive and therefore you decided, on that point, not to do the business; an opinion that could have been debated instructively. You posted that the product was too expensive and that there was DECEPTION�.i.e. some form of immoral activity going on with regard to Arbonne. That was a subjective and emotional response/opinion not based on any fact that you can demonstrate. It was an attempt to sling mud and hope that it stuck. It was being CYNICAL. If you were not angry, bitter or resentful (one, or all three) why the need to launch the attack in that manner?

In your next post you tried to tell the story of your introduction to Arbonne, but again, instead of sticking to the objective facts which I tried to address for your benefit, you threw in that last line, �All of you should be ashamed of yourselves trying to encourage others to do it.� Now, you may disagree, but if that isn�t bitterness or resentment I don�t know what is. It�s another indication of your emotional response, like it or not. It�s the �I can�t do it, so all of you who can, or want to, are immoral� response. It�s sad and very revealing. Even a psychologist would agree.

You explained that you have kids to put thru college which means you have a need. Arbonne is obviously not the answer you�re looking for. But it is the answer for many. I see it everyday. I can tell you that to put those kids thru college, meaning you can just write a check for tuition for the college of their choice, you�re pretty much limited to starting your own business. If your salary from a job were enough you wouldn�t have expressed that need. You may win the lottery, if you play, but I wouldn�t count on it. Owning your own business is the only way you�ll increase your income to cover those needs. If you have the capital available to open a traditional brick and mortar store, go ahead. But that�s not easy or guaranteed either. You called Arbonne �risky�. Anyone who opened, or has looked into opening, a traditional business would simply laugh at that characterization. If you know of an opportunity, or find one, with potentially big returns; the kind that could pay for 6 college educations; AND had NO risk, please let me know what it is!!

My point on this board is simply to defend Arbonne against your kinds of comments; the pointless ones based on emotions, clich� and ignorance; and to encourage others considering the business to appreciate the FACTS about this company, it�s products and compensation structure so they make the right decision, what ever decision that may be.

It�s instructive; I think, for those who read these posts to take notice that, for the most part, the criticisms directed at Arbonne are nothing more than personal opinions and old clich�s about MLM in general or emotional attempts to disparage those involved. Any of the objective concerns about policy, procedures, business strategy, products and real life experiences can be reasonably resolved if the party asking wishes to listen.

Karen,
The term �pups� as you have heard it is likely referring to the RE9 set that some consultants are using to introduce potential customers to the product line. It comes from the �puppy dog approach� sales technique, which I explained in an earlier post. Arbonne is asking that we call it the �Results Approach� and just refer to the products as a �set� or �system�. Hope that helps!

PJ, you make a good point. Some who have posted here want to portray everybody involved in network marketing as over zealous and over bearing fools who can�t help but constantly pester friends and family to join their business. I don�t know anybody like that. There may be some, but I doubt they ever become successful with that strategy. As I�ve said before, the key to the business is to attract people to your business by being the kind of person they see as capable of teaching them the business and as someone they would enjoy working with. If you�re a likable, dignified, confident person who makes friends easily, you don�t suddenly become an idiot who doesn�t know how to interact with people. Letting people know what you�re doing is all you have to do. If they like you and trust you they will want to know more about it. If they have an interest they will ask. You don�t need to beg and you don�t have to sound desperate.

As far as your nervousness goes, it�s common and understandable. Learn your trade well and have confidence and you�ll do fine. Remember it�s not a race. Because some have promoted to RVP in 4 months does not mean you have to. Have fun with your business and focus on staying in activity and not on the results. The results will come soon enough.

I didn't have time to read all of the posts but I am with you Dave. Sounds likes Shirles has issues that are beyond Arbonne. I applaud your setting her straight. Keep it up!
Are you married?
You sound like you would be the perfect husband.
Getting into Arbonne was the greatest decision I ever made. My husband was 100% against it and because he couldn't handle my choice, we are now separated. Arbonne has changed my life in ways I never could have imagined.
I am financially independent for the first time and well on my way to that Mercedes!
Thanks Dave and thanks Arbonne

Dave,

Isn't it absolutely true that the guy at the bottom is getting screwed? Seriously, how could it be otherwise? Someone WILL be at the bottom and they will get virtually nothing.

And the whole institute thing is a riot.
Comon, it's deception pure and simple. Telling half the truth and letting the consumer draw their own conclusion. I'm not saying Arbonne is good or bad based upon that, just that it is pretty funny.

I have nothing to gain or lose either way. I tried Excel and found it difficult to ask my friends and family to switch phone service while ignoring the deals they could get from other carriers. Sure, if they became Excel reps they could have gotten money from their own service but most didn't want to be bothered. And ultimately, I didn't blame them.

I don't doubt your succes. The money sounds nice. But, I don't envy it.

PS, all this "God Bless" crap being thrown about after lambasting someone is laughable. If ou truely mean "God Bless", say "Good luck and God Bless" and leave it at that. Don't be a patronizing jackass.

BTW, God Bless.

-Mike

Mike, I'm answering you. The above post is NOT from me. Some people are really sick..you know.

Hello!

I have a friend who is trying to get me involved with selling Arbonne. I purchased some products from her, and I do like them. However, I am also looking into other home-based businesses, many which are MLM organizations. I am speaking with a person this week who is involved with Traveling Vineyards. Does anyone know anything about this organization? If so, how would you compare this business opportunity with that of Arbonne?

Thanks!

A friend who's an Arbonne consultant yesterday gave me the impressive 2005 product catalogue with the beautiful orchid photo on the cover. The inside cover credit says it's a Cymbidium orchid that contains "Cymbidium Grandiflorm," a nourishing extract added to some Arbonne products. This, however, is not a Cymbidium orchid, but a Phalaenopsis or "moth orchid." And it's "Grandiflorum," not "Grandiflorm." Google the name and you can find pictures of the Cymbidium Grandiflorum on many orchid websites.

Folks, This evening I went on line to look at Arbonne, and after seeing the first couple of Google pages dominated by ads for Arbonne, I found this site's commentary.

First, I am not interested in MLM. I am fascinated from time to time in watching them, but not interested in doing it. Here, however, are some long developed observations:

1) MLM companies often poop out after explosive growth. They are sort of like many entertainers who spend time in smokey clubs or off, off, off, off Broadway for ten years before they hit it big. Then they get REAL big. And then they disappear. They worked hard to make it, but they've lost their appeal. Arbonne is 25 years old. Will it make 30? Lots of these companies explode after a long climb up, and then crash.

2)I have personally known probably 7-8 people who do (or did) MLM. Six didn't make it. Two marriages broke up related (but, of course, not entirely due to) MLM involvement. I saw some people get real religious and start going to church, until they didn't make it big in MLM.The two who have made it are a lady who works for Arbonne, and a lady who works for Longaberger. The Arbonne lady is some level of VP, whatever that means. She drives her Mercedes. Cool. Whatever. Her business fate is yet to be determined. Time will tell. The basket lady has been around for at least 15 years, and still sells her multi-hundred dollar baskets that are built like you can haul coal in them--but we (at least Americans, who can afford to buy such trivialities as decoration)don't haul coal in baskets anymore. If you can spend hundreds of dollars on several baskets just to sit around the house for "ambience" you either don't have money problems, or maybe you really DO!

3)These things are always based on going to conventions, getting the "rah-rah," and then going out and selling. Lately, the trend has been "rah-rah with warm fuzzies." They want to "share" these incredible products. Often they ARE very good products. In their day,AMWAY sold damned good soap! But there were other products that eventually overtook their products on quality and price. They tried to diversify, but who wants to buy a TV from AMWAY? Wal-Mart and Best Buy have them for less, and you don't have to join to get the discount!

4)I agree that there are folks who "have it" and folks who don't when it comes to selling. I think you need the right tools for the right product. For example, the Arbonne lady I know has always been gorgeous! I mean "model" gorgeous. She competed in "Mrs. USA." She's about 50 and looks 35. It's genuine. This is who she really is. You might say she's a "steel magnolia" because she has already been a succcessful business woman. If you look on the Arbonne sight, every one of the VPs is at least what most people would consider "pretty" and some are knockouts. (Except the ONE guy. I won't comment on HIS looks). Perfect people for a cosmetic company. When you look like that, you can sell cosmetics to a rattlesnake! The implication-- "You can look like me." The basket lady is about 55. She is a big woman, beehive hairdo, with a loud laugh. Even in her younger days, she was this big "Polish" lady who speaks her mind (her words). She's like someone's grandma or crazy aunt. She's a perfect basket sales person. Both of these gals are outgoing in their own ways, and have the appropriate tools, most of them, inborn natural.

5)People who sell are entrepreneurial (I may have mispelled this--but have mercy). They are outgoing, have the gift of gab, and have a way of winning people. Sometimes they are so "positive" it makes you want to barf. Some of these people really are nice folks. But what turns a lot of us off, is when we get into a forum like this, and the more often than not, the ones who have "made it" treat the rest of us like losers. Anyone with concerns or even fear are derided for being peons who will always be peons because they are "negative." These particular "winners" are snotty and arrogant. I've had MLMers tell me, with furrowed brow and voice of concern, that they are really "disapointed" that I wasn't ready to take (recieve, accept) this tremendous "opportunity" to "change my life." Thanks for the pity. I'll just go and crawl into my borrow now, and eat some grubs.

6)Finally, I have only met two people, mentioned above--who have, when asked what they do for a lving,tell me strait forward that they sell MLM---as in, that's ALL they do. The basket lady is a genuine "lifer." The Arbonne lady has had several successful businesses. More than any other factor, I think this says something about MLM. No matter how good the prodcut, or how sincere the company, MLM is no different than any other company. A few get rich and the rest...don't.

Bill

Dave, thanks, I'll await your comments.
Mic

Dave,
If you prefer to email me some advice instead of posting it here, that's fine. It seems like you and I may have similar business philosophies. My email is newkmail@yahoo.com.

I'll check back here for more info. too. I love hearing the success stories and can sympathize with those struggling too because such is life no matter what your profession. I admire those perseverant spirits.

Thanks again!

Dave scares me sometimes. He sounds really angry and defensive in some posts. My pastor's wife is now trying to get me to join Arbonne so I really appreciate all the posts (yes, including Dave's!!) but I am still incredibly wary. I haven't spoken to my pastor's wife in almost two years and out of nowhere she calls me (no, not to catch up on missed years - we were once really close) but to push me into Arbonne because it could help me get out of debt. WHAT?? I haven't decided one way or the other yet but it sure is fishy to me. I don't doubt AT ALL that people are making money and are successful w/this business but let history serve it's purpose in educating our futures...just like stated throughout this string, MLM just isn't for everyone. Too bad people are trying to push it on anyone and everyone. I wish Arbonne (and others) WOULD tell their people not to start w/friends, family, and fellow churchmembers because, like in my situation, the whole time I was getting the "pitch" yesterday, I just cried. Literally. It was such a slap in the face to not hear from someone for so long and then all of a sudden get an Arbonne business pitch. What a rip. Not that that is Arbonne's philosophy but when you are working to build on an MLM, people are driven to madness. Thanks for all the info. Still thinking.....

But Julia, did she end your conversation with "God Bless"? That always seems to fix everything up.

God Bless.

Mike

Mike, you crack me up! That is the sad truth though. No matter how you spin it or try to deny it, Arbonne (like every other product!) is going to try and deceive the few people who allow it. Honestly, that is a bit disturbing because any person w/common sense knows that Arbonne is out to market just like anybody else out there. They will tell you as little info as you need to draw your own conclusion (in their favor of course) esp. in regards to being manufactured (or formulated..whatever) in Swizterland and then when you say wait a minute! They will say "but we NEVER said it was in Switzerland!" Nevermind the fact that apparently there are PICTURES POSTED OF PEOPLE (well respected even!) WHO HAVE BEEN THERE! So nah nahnee boo boo... It all seems so...multi-level marketing-ish to me. Sigh.

http://www.goto.myarbonne.com/arbonne/goto.nsf/viewpage/1?Open&pagename;=T1body.htm

"Formulated in Switzerland at our proprietary laboratory (AIRD = Arbonne Institute of Research and Development), our full-line of pure Swiss skin care products are still taking care of all ages and gender's skin!"

Proprietary laboratory = Sink in bathroom

God Bless

Mike

Mike, basically I think we should be friends and start our own proprietary laboratory in a toilet somewhere in Gotebo, Oklahoma. We could make it work if we get enough people to be our puppy dogs!
Dog Sselb

Angry?

Hardly. I'm laughing. A lot.

You're the angry one bud. You're angry because you were been duped in to believing Arbonne actually had a brick and mortar building with 10-12 R&D; guys roaming the halls milking orchids and rubbing miracle creams on eager Swiss maidens.

YOU WERE READY TO PUT MONEY ON IT!

As I CLEARLY stated before, I'm happy for you. I have nothing to gain or lose.

Lighten up Francis.

And, of course, God Bless.

-Mike

I figure I'd better at least say hello Julia. So, here it is.

Hello Julia.

And Dog Ssleb yourself.

My wife sold Tupperware for a while and was quite good at it. It was/is a product she loves. I particularly like the fact that they'll replace lids and damaged parts FREE.

I wonder if Arbonne will offer some kind of face lift special if crows feet appear too early?

I won't hold my breath. I'll just use my Vaseline Intensive care lotion and keep the savings for elective surgeries.

Maybe I'll start my own Male Arbonne called Arbeau.

Puppy kits to include gift certificates to Arbys.

God Bless,

Mike

I just saw your last post Julia..and fair enough. I may be a bit too intense in dealing with your comments and I apologize if it sounds that way. There�s so much I could say in response to your unfortunate experience with your Pastor�s wife but I�ll resist the urge. And I wouldn�t be defending her either! There�s no excuse for not talking with you and discovering if there�s a need and a desire first before trying to propose ANY opportunity as a fit. As for humor, no one appreciates good humor more than I do. But I see much of what�s written intending to be funny as being intended to also persuade people to have fear, unfounded fear, about Arbonne.

Well, that's that. I think, like it has been said a million times in the posts above, that people who are interested in this and think they can succeed, should do it. And if not, then don't be sucked into anything just because of the so-called promises involved. It's just common sense. Thanks again for your help!

I can�t resist one more comment to you specifically Julia. So bear with me if you don�t mind. I really don�t take much of what is said here as a personal attack on me. But I don�t respond well to words like �Deceit� and �Sales Crap�; words that you used. �Deceit� to me implies there is a deliberate and immoral attempt to fool somebody. If you use that word you�re attacking somebody�s credibility. Maybe not me, but somebody. And �sales crap� means to me that you�re attacking the notion that there is a legitimate process or approach to sharing the product with people who might find value in it.

Words mean things and if you use them you have to accept that they will be interpreted according to what they mean.

I also would say that nobody in Arbonne should be making any promises apart from what the company authorizes and they definitely do not authorize making promises about income. I have tried to make the point, and probably not very well it seems, that while it�s true not everyone will succeed with Arbonne, it�s not the company or the products that will prevent that success. It might be your location, the lack of effective leadership locally, your own lack of effort or desire or yes, even your personality, but the company and the products are not the cause. Too many people are proving otherwise for that to be the case.

Hi Rich...
I read the article and while I'd love to challenge much of what was written there as it relates to Arbonne, obviously this isn�t the place. Suffice to say it makes an interesting argument, but not insurmountable (as it relates to Arbonne) by any means. Thanks for sharing!

I think it's safe to say we know what Dave thinks...and we know what Mike thinks. And God Bless 'em both LOL. But let's move on. Nothing new/insightful has been posted in quite a while. A fun thread while it lasted though!

btw MARY KAY RULES!!!!!!!!!!! haha.

Mike, Once again you�re making an argument just to be argumentative and you�re way off base with your �analysis� and you demonstrate that with your own words. I characterized Ed�s complaint this way: �The fact that Ed was disputing was whether they conduct their research in and testing in Switzerland�.� You quoted Ed as saying �My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.�

As you can plainly see, I didn�t mischaracterize Ed at all, and you know it. Ed was partially right on one point. He was wrong on the point above. I was partially wrong and I admitted it. And it�s true what I said. I saw a picture and made a conclusion on my own. No one said to me this is a picture of Arbonne�s private lab which they own.

I know you�re very impressed with yourself but you should know that your comments are neither informative nor entertaining.

HEY DAVE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING SPENDING YOUR ENTIRE DAY AT THIS SITE? I THOUGHT YOU WERE BUSY ENJOYING THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR. YOU ALL NEDD TO GET A LIFE AND MOVE ON FROM THIS ARBONNE STUFF.

Hello Dave,
You and your wife must be doing very well with Arbonne - you've got your team working for YOU and that's why you have time to respond to all the negativity that has been generated on this site lately. I, like others, have been on the fence about this company until I met NVP Sibley Gammon. I also personally know others in my city who are doing extremely well in this business. So I took the plunge and received my pups today and plan to follow the REsults Approach to the letter! Can't wait to get started...any pointers on the journey to the road to success would be greatly appreciated. Oh and by the way - to others who may be reading this entry and want to squash my ambitions - it has been my motto in life that in order to succeed in any business you must surround yourself with positive and successful people - so no hurling negative and insulting comments from the naysayers please. Dave, you are obviously successful in your endeavors and present a very positive position. So, with that said...your input is extremely valuable.

Hi Georgia Girl! You have a great upline in Sibley and I�m sure you�ll do well. She is a great example, as are many on her team, that it�s not fate that causes you to succeed or not succeed...it�s action; your OWN action. You�ll do great. My only advice is to work the Results Approach as your trained, but never count out the success others have had doing group presentations. Keep that door open because it is still a very viable and effective strategy in the right situations.

To Janea: I don�t think I disagree with you. I�m just wondering in what way you think anyone is trying to convince anyone. I am NOT trying to convince ANYONE to do this business. My purpose is only to defend the integrity of the company against the misinformation that the uninformed post here which may impact an individual�s ability to make the right choice. Unfortunately, the level of nastiness that has been displayed by some has made this effort much more serious than it should be. I do agree with you there.

I am a district manager with Arbonne and I have a book that you all should read. It's called Dare to Dream and Work To Win by Tom Barrett.
MLM may not be for all of you but if you hate it so much why are you spending so much of your time complaining about it? Just go back to your JOB where you work for someone else and let them determine your worth.
Thank you Dave for putting up with these people for as long as you have.

Addie

Hi Joel,
You�re right. I know lots of people with jobs who are quite fulfilled and happy. My best friend has a great job as a Senior Vice President for a major power utility company. I guess I�d only question if it�s those people, the happy ones, who are here on a crusade against network marketing and Arbonne. I�d say for the most part probably not. I think you can tell that by their choice of words. People who are content and fulfilled usually have the �to each his own� attitude and aren�t concerned about what other people do to make a living. That�s been my experience I�d say. So Addie is right to suggest they wouldn�t be here wasting their time. But that is just an opinion, I concede.
I�d also agree with your last point as I have often said we are interested in recruiting people into this business who do it because they love the business, enjoy the activity of promoting the products and are prepared to learn the skills necessary to train others to do the same rather than those who focus on how much money they might make. My wife and I love this business for many reasons beyond the income and would prefer this business to our previous business even if we didn�t make any more than what we did with our previous business.

And while I�m talking to you directly, I really appreciate your comments on all the other subjects on your site. I�d say you and I agree 99% of the time. So I�m asking for your forgiveness for my rush to judgment when I first found this thread and I called you a moron. I was wrong as obviously you�re not.

Well...I think my wife often complains of the same thing...so maybe we both are morons! Glad to know I'm not alone.

Hi Renee�Sorry to hear about division in your church. I�ve never heard of division in a church. (Just kidding of course) I can�t explain how that would happen except to chalk it up to human nature. You know; greed, jealousy, envy, coveting, etc. In a word that sums up the human condition: Sin. It�s shame, I agree. I will tell you this: it is not the money or the promise of money that caused this problem; it is, as Jesus said �The LOVE of money�� Please don�t blame Arbonne. The management would be just as horrified as you are. If you can identify the NVP above these people I�d contact her and tell her what�s going on. I�m sure she�d want to know.

As for your �overpriced� comment, I�ll ask you first, would you like an answer or are you just venting?

Yes..Julia...I concede you're right. It's no different though than if I opened a ..well, Pier 1, to use your example. I would tell you about it and ask you to come by sometime..but I wouldn't hound you to do so. People who do that are weak, desperate and just plain stupid, I agree. Over zealous recruiting is NOT what people are trained to do. They do it on their own and I don't think there's a way to stop it until those doing it realize the error of their ways. You have my permission to blast them! :-)

Truth: If you strip MLM of its hallmark activity of continuously reselling distributorships and examine its foundation, the one-to-one retailing of products to customers, you encounter an unproductive and impractical system of sales upon which the entire structure is supposed to rest. Personal retailing is a thing of the past, not the wave of the future. Retailing directly to friends on a one-to-one basis requires people to drastically change their buying habits. They must restrict their choices, often pay more for goods, buy inconveniently, and awkwardly engage in business transactions with close friends and relatives. The unfeasibility of door-to-door retailing is why MLM is, in reality, a business that just keeps reselling the opportunity to sign up more distributors.

Kinger,

While I would love to offer a more comprehensive response to your post, as there are many ideas to contrast your basic point, I�ll keep it to just a couple of thoughts (if I can.)

First, I really don�t think �brainwashed� is the right word. Brainwash means, according to my dictionary, �make someone adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often FORCIBLE pressure. [Caps my addition] Are you really suggesting that network marketers are engaging in FORCIBLE pressure or making someone adopt RADICALLY different beliefs? Again, I�ll speak from an Arbonne perspective, but people are coming into this business basically for two reasons and neither have anything to do with force. Some come into the business because they experience a positive, sometimes significantly positive, result from the products. They, being impressed with the product, understand that many others will react as such and that a DEMAND is therefore created that they can fill as a distributor. In other words, they see an opportunity to benefit from the quality of the products as will their satisfied customers. The second motivation is closer to your point; they see the potential for making a significant income and radically changing their lifestyle. But no one is being brainwashed into this thinking. They are CONCLUDING this is possible based on the evidence, i.e. experience of others who have actually done so. I agree with you the work is hard at times; not complicated but hard, but I also take issue that is isn�t fun. Whether it�s fun or not is based on your attitude. The NFL is back to training camp as I write this. NFL training camp, especially in the heat of summer, is HARD, exhausting and even stressful for the players and coaches, but would anybody say the players aren�t having fun? They�re doing what they love to do. They�re preparing to play a game and make a lot of money for playing it. Yeah, it�s hard. But it�s still part of the fun of being a pro athlete. I went though U.S. Army boot camp. It was hard. It was at times humiliating. But it was, in total, fun! I think people who really want to have a meaningful life realize the most fun is when you are overcoming obstacles and achieving difficult goals. Did you ever play a difficult game? Was it not fun? Wow...there is so much more to say about this.

Also, Kinger, I think you�re wrong on your opinion of face-to-face selling. I think consumers really WANT competent personalized service. They�re just used to NOT getting it. But if they don�t want it, Arbonne offers convenient on line or toll free ordering. We rarely contact our regular customers but 3 or 4 times a year. Usually we simply send an invitation to an Open House or mail a special offer. Our regular customers just order on line when they need something; easier than going to the mall, in fact. (It�s why offering consumable products is so critical) You�re making an assumption that Arbonne customers really don�t want the stuff, they just buy it because they feel they have to, or because they�re helping someone out. My experience is our customers WANT the stuff. If they don�t �so be it.

And lastly, I take issue with your statistics because in regards to Arbonne they are wrong. The averages are on the Arbonne website. If you take those in Arbonne making the �big money� (the VPs) the number is 7% of the total. And the average income, not including retail profits a consultant may earn for those actually trying to build a business, is much higher than you suggest. For those consultants who have achieved the level of District Manager and above, the average is over $9000 per month. But even if you just take District and Area Manager levels, and assume every one of these will never rise above that level, the average is over $900 per month. (No guarantees are being offered here, check Arbonne.com for more info.) $900 a month for many is a pretty good addition with still the potential for doing more in time.

Final thought: You don�t have to be number ONE to be a winner. Denis Waitley says (I�m paraphrasing here) winning isn�t always coming in first. Sometimes winning is coming in FOURTH, exhausted and completely spent, when last time you came in FIFTH.

I should have added...the promise of network marketing is NOT equal results. It's equal opportunity.

So C&D...; Do you really think anybody cares who I am? What's the point? Why are you so afraid of YOUR name?

Dave,

Clearly you stand to gain through the pyramidal structure as more people continue to join Arbonne . So you have a vested interest in defending the "opportunity" here as not to taint the potential downline. The success of any MLM depends wholly on a uninformed population. The last thing you want to see is a forum where people can learn that what you're going to tell them may not be true. Which explains why you never seem to have said enough to make your point. You literally can't afford not to respond to any negative comment posted here.

For all your efforts to distance Arbonne from the negative aspects of other MLM companies, you cannot even avoid using the formulaic, scripted arguments previously developed by those same organizations in your defense of it.

Arbonne tries very hard to appear as the moral and ethical superior to other MLM opportunities in it's initial presentation, but quickly reveals itself to be no different through their subsequent tactics. You are almost immediately fed rationales for doing the very things they claim they don't require or encourage.

You are immediately encouraged to purchase business aids to help you achieve success quicker, as well as $250 worth of product to become familiar with what you're selling. You'll hear about new official Arbonne training seminars starting this October for $75 a consultant. You are offered incentives to purchase inventory within your first two months because of a limited time discount, but of course are not required to. You're told that no business can be expected to succeed without some financial commitment. It is implied that you aren't serious enough about success if you aren't willing to spend some of your own $$$ to get to DM as quickly as possible. You are told to make a "hot" list of 100 of your closest friends and family to pitch the opportunity to. The focus quickly shifts from distributing the "superior" products to sponsoring new consultants and encouraging them to buy RE9 sets to generate income for the upline.

Arbonne is careful to insulate itself from proof that they employ these standard MLM tactics. They only become apparent AFTER you become a consultant and are "on board". That way, people like Dave can deny that you'll ever be encouraged to pay for training, make volume purchase etc... You'll find no evidence of those things on their official site. In fact the amount of space used on their site in trying to overcome the negative stigma should be reason enough to be suspicious. Why did they select a model with no many negative perceptions to begin with?

The goal, of course, is to get the new consultant to generate as much money for the upline as quickly as possible, before they begin to feel that they are spending too much of their own money to be on the "fast track." It's the constant rotating consultants at the bottom that are generating all the profits. You won't find any statistics to at Arbonne's web site to illustrate how much revenue was generated by consultants that only lasted 2 or 3 months, but spent an average of $500 before the quit.

And spare me the "those that fail don't understand the opportunity", "aren't serious about success" , "don't have what it takes". The only reason to use an MLM to distribute products is because you're banking on those failures. Especially since we now know that Arbonne simply bought a series of prepared formulas from Arval Swiss Cosmetics and the right to brand, manufacture, and sell them however they want. It's pretty clear that the product is secondary to the MLM money making machine.

Arbonne is not the first MLM to try to spin the concept into something pure and magical. Yet another way they prove to be unoriginal. They are atypical of the modern MLM.

Wow. Now I�m scared! Someone has discovered my secret. I�m afraid people will read these negative comments and the whole company will collapse into dust. You got it!

I actually don�t have to respond to your comments, C&D;, because they were just repeats of what we�ve heard before. Nicely regurgitated, but regurgitated just the same. I�m seriously getting bored now.

I wish you people who have taken up an offense against Arbonne and network marketing, hoping to save the world I guess, would do two things. First, tell me how else the average person can build a successful (profitable) business without huge amounts of capital, very little risk, no overhead, no employees and no special qualifications. Give me just ONE possibility? And secondly, if you�re really sincere in your efforts to save the little people from making the mistake of wasting money on a dubious promise, why aren�t you likewise fighting for the elimination of legalized gambling and state lotteries? I�d be pretty sure the amount WASTED, by people who can ill afford it and hoping for that big score that never comes, dwarfs, I mean DWARFS the losses for those who fail in network marketing. Somebody is getting rich off these people. I would think you�d be outraged!!

Okay, C&D;, we get it, you have an axe to grind. I hope you feel better now. I�ll look for your comments on an Anti-Gambling blog real soon.

dave, how much does Arbonne pay you to sit and reply to all of these comments? It must be a lot because you continually stay and reply over and over even after you claim to be bored.

C & D
Great comments . . . keep spreading the word on these ridiculous MLM scammers! Eventually they will have to share the wealth of the meager "7%" with the thousands of others spending money instead of making it.

By the way . . . ever notice that people that are liars are always sooooo defensive! :-)

Dave,

You continue to attack the attacker and not the attacks, and become more caustic and insulting as you do. It's clear that if anyone doesn't believe in the opportunity, then they are to be lambasted with "petty" and "vindictive" assaults.

You really do nothing to advance your arguments with your behavior.

I thinks it's sad that you don't even realize how desparate you sound. That my dislike of Arbonne doesn't translate into a hatred of you. Try to remove your psyche from the hive for a moment, if you can. I'm challenging Arbonne, not everything you stand for as an individual. Yet, you have become so mean and abusive over something that should only be a small aspect of your life. Are you hearing yourself?

It's not my mission to destroy you or Arbonne. Only to continue to offer an opposing viewpoint. since you seem determined to attack those who disagree, until they leave this forum at least.

I believe your approach and what you have written here says far more about the dangers of what MLM can do to your outlook on life. And just how much confidence and diversion is employed by those selling the dream. So, post on. Insult and dismiss away... because those outside the circle are not to be believed or trusted.

Wow.

WHY IS EVERYONE ATTACKING DAVE? LEAVE THE MAN ALONE. I HAVEN'T NOTICED THIS BEING MENTIONED BEFORE, BUT STAY TUNED TO "OPRAH" IN SEPT, SHE IS HAVING AN ENTIRE EPISODE DISCUSSING THE ARBONNE CO. MAYBE YOU ALL SHOULD JUST WAIT AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THIS COMPANY IS ABOUT.

I JUST WANT TO ADD THIS IN FOR YOU DAVE, I USE THE ENITRE RE9 LINE AND THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE COMPARABLE. I ALSO LOVE THE BABY LINE.

Hey Julia,
I will accept that your advice is sincere. But I have some problems with what you say that illustrates exactly the kind of thing I�ve been trying to point out to people who post here. Even in your suggestion that I�m too angry and I should go away you reveal your bias, include negative innuendo and make statements that are not supported by the facts. I�m just asking that people, in the vernacular, �KEEP IT REAL.� But I guess that�s proving impossible.

In all my participation here I have only responded to others comments. I did not START any of the �arguments�. So here again, I will respond to what you say. Not because I�m angry, but because you, like C&D;, must be completely blind to the meaning of what you write.

First, how can you possibly say I have not been personally attacked? I�ve been called, either directly or by association, a liar (several times), somebody who�s been duped, a �plant� from the company, untrustworthy, a �get rich quick� person, someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc. And that doesn�t include any thing C&D; said.

Second you say I have �plenty to say against others� professions�. I do? Where? I�ve never said anything against others� professions. In fact, I�ve said the opposite. I may have reacted negatively to someone who says network marketers should just �get a job.� But I appreciate people who are content in their jobs. I�m glad my mechanic isn�t quitting to go start a home business; likewise, my doctor, my plumber, my daughter�s teachers, the police in my community and on and on. I specifically said we need people who like their jobs. So how do you make that characterization? I just don�t get it.

You may be right that people are reading this to get both sides of an argument. But if so, don�t they deserve to get a balance and clarification of the facts? In all my posts you cannot find one example of me responding in a mean spirited manner when the question or the comment was legitimate and asked without some backhanded comment intended to demean somebody. Throughout this thread when consultants have posted their positive experiences they have been met with ridicule and insult in some form by those on your side of the argument. Is that your idea of a getting BOTH sides?

But I even take issue with that characterization of anything I�ve written. I�m not trying to be mean, although you may interpret it that way or get that impression because of your bias against my position or your bias against network marketing. If you read through my comments to C&D; you would plainly see that my comments were intended to be instructive to her, and others, in revealing her true meaning and showing that, in reality, her actions against me and her statements were the �mean� ones cloaked in a polite manner.

If C&D; had posted her �beef� with Arbonne in a way that way that would have been helpful, I would not have responded the way I did. But she started her participation here with an attack against me (revealing identity) and then she launched into her long complaint with the clear intention to ridicule. But even then I didn�t respond. I just said her comments had mostly been answered.

I think, Julia, you�re guilty of selective reading. You read what you like and ignore the details of what I write because you disagree. �Keep it real� and whether you agree with me or not I�ll respect you 100%. Lie about me and I�ll challenge you every time.

I could not agree more.

Dave, thank you so much for all of your comments. I read your wife's story and I am inspired.

Arbonne is an amazing company with awesome products and I do feel blessed for signing up. But, as mentioned before, it and MLM is not for everyone. I find it very strange, however, that some posts mention the words "scams", "deceit", and "that only a small percentage will make the amount of money" that Dave's wife and others are making in Arbonne. But, that is true in every industry. How many people in most companies make a large amount of money? How many presidents work for a corporation? If I work harder than the president in a corporation, will my checks reflect it? The answer is NO!! But at Arbonne and other MLM, your success is based on you (and those you sponsor). That is not true in most other jobs. If I recommend (sponsor) someone for a position, and they are hired, I may get a one-time bonus, but that's it. No matter how well this person may do in this position, I receive the one time bonus. Also, there is no glass ceiling and no corporate politics with Arbonne.

Arbonne nor MLM may not for you and that's fine. But don't try to dissuade others from even exploring the opportunity. I am sure everyone is intelligent enough to do research before committing to anything.

Blade

You serious folks that have a dream,please ignore people like Dave who post their negative out of envy or because they get paid to post.
Protect your thoughts, focus on your dreams, and keep moving ( posted by a dream builder not associated with Arbonne).
KG

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

This is a must read!!!
Like it. Love it. Live it, is right!

. . . and a big thanks to Joel for this blog site!!

I just read through the site that Julia provided about MLMs (http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html) and I concur with her that it's a must read for anyone contemplating a MLM career (I certainly am not . . . but many years ago I was involved with Amway and Herbalife). Anyway, after reading what was on that site I could definitely relate to the info.

As for the wife and I, we'll probably continue struggling through life with products prescribed by our doc or if it's an over-the-counter product that's needed, we'll just head down to our 24-hour Wal-Mart.

As for any MLMer . . .good luck! . . . there's a good chance you'll need it!

Hi Ralph,

You bring up a couple of points that maybe I can explain a bit differently to give you a different perspective. However, it�s hard on a blog like this to do so effectively without writing something that is way too long, but I�ll see if I can keep it short but still keep it useful.

First, I can tell you those who rave about the products are not �Stepfords�. I really encourage your wife to at least try the products, either by a sample pack or a full system trial. (You might want to try the men�s products too for you own experience.) Obviously if she sees no benefit after trying the products I wouldn�t expect her to buy it. But most people who try the products do, in fact, report that it makes a huge difference in both the appearance of their skin and how it makes the skin feel. I would also say my experience is that most of the people coming into this business have no previous MLM experience and come into the business specifically because of the profound improvement they experience using the products. But I will add that not everyone is an Arbonne customer no matter how good the product works. If you�re the kind that always buys things according to the cheapest you can find, regardless of quality, than you�d probably not be an Arbonne customer. I don�t mean that as an insult, I just mean some people are happy to get by with spending less and sacrificing better quality. For instance, for some food is food and they�d rather buy a steak dinner at Cracker Barrel for $12 than a steak dinner at Ruth�s Chris for $60 and see no difference. But of course there really IS a difference. Arbonne�s products are certainly premium grade. They use ingredients that can cost 100 times the cost of those Walmart products ingredients so obviously it will affect the price to the end user.

In addition to the cost of manufacturing is the cost of distribution. Compare Arbonne to other companies in their industry and you�ll discover that their cost of distribution is actually lower than the competitors who you find in the department stores. Arbonne�s cost of distribution is entirely what they pay out to consultants and not to advertisers, freight companies, distributors and their sales staff, and retailers (who pay salaries from the profits.) So what consultants earn is not a factor in price relative to comparable products. Every company must get the product to market in some method and I can�t think of a way that would not involve a cost. Furthermore, those in the business making significant overrides are making it on the volume of sales, not from the one sale to you or any other single person.

All of the above is true for any business model and not just MLM companies.

Now, in regard to this article you and Julia linked to, I obviously can�t go thru the whole thing. Except for the beginning discussion on the concept of saturation, the rest of it is pretty worthless. It�s really nothing more than a litany of bad experiences that could have been avoided if the characteristics of what to look for I described earlier had been applied. The writer�s discussion of materialism is misguided at best. I�d love to address the saturation issue but it would take too long so I�ll recommend a book, for those who are worried about it, where this �theory� is debunked very effectively. The book is �The New Professionals� by Professor Charles W. King and James W. Robinson. Even if you just read the sections dealing with the saturation issue you�ll gain a good understanding of the weakness of the argument in the article linked to in the above posts.

This reading has definitely been a fun read for some good laughs. Yes, I am an Arbonne consultant, have been for 2 years. Love the stuff and am concerned with all the questionable/harmful ingredients in personal products.

I was told in the beginning: "If you think you can do this business, you're right. If you think you can't do this business, you're right". It is all in how you think.

Hi Gloria, I'm sure someone else could answer your questions as well, including the product support people at Arbonne. You should email them with your questions. As far as All Natural goes, the skin care products are not advertised as all natural because Arbonne does use small amounts of certain proven safe chemicals for preservatives. It's critcally important that products that come in contact with the skin are free of bacteria and "all natural" products leave open the door for such problems. Ask your sister if she'd let you view the Product Knowlege modules on the Arbonne University series at the Arbonne web site. Candace Keefe goes over this in much detail. You need to be a consultant to view that area however. Also, your sister should provide sell sheets for any product you'd like ingredient info or they're online as well. The size of the bottle or jar has a lot to do with concentration levels. Arbonne's products are highly concentrated and you may find they last just as long as larger amounts of other products. Best regards as you make your decision.

So, WOW! I have sat here reading all of these postings and found it a bit addictive. I am an Arbonne consultant and have fallen into success. I am still trying to figure out how. My "why" has always been about helping others as the products helped myself and my son with his eczema. To go into this with stars in your eyes seems like the wrong approach to me. I am in this because I believe in it, not to make a fast buck. It is difficult, time consuming and gut twisitng. I would have left already had I not believed so strongly in the products benefits. So forget the BS of all of this. You may get rich here or you may fail. If you know in your heart that you are doing something that is good, and good for yourself,forget the rest. I question this job everyday, but what it comes back to is my belief. I believe in the product, myself and the opportunity. Good luck to everyone!

Dave,
I'd like to take this opportunity to applaud you. I have honestly been impressed with your ability to respond rationally and defend (not because you were asked to or paid to) something that you believe in so strongly (I am referring to the company, product & opportunity). My wife and I have been coming back to read this blog periodically for a little over a month and it never ceases to amaze me how much people have to say here. My wife is Jen, she posted her thoughts and feelings about her Arbonne experience in the middle of July. I, for one, was very proud of her comments and the fact that she so openly shared her feelings knowing that someone would most likely respond negatively (which Darla did in such a disrespectful manner). I also want to thank you for defending the words of my wife, you were right when you said, "People say those things because they are true". I was floored when I saw that her most sincere words were trampled on and disregarded so rudely. I was particularly touched that you were able to defend her position for a number of reasons, #1 we have never met, #2 we are not a part of your direct organization or �downline� if you will, #3 and by far the most important, at the very moment in which Darla was (as I put it earlier) trampling on the most sincere words of my wife, she was in labor with our 4th child (he is beautiful by the way, as were the other 3) and for the past 3 weeks, we have been focusing on what matters most to us (our family) rather than attempt to respond to the petty comments that were made against her and her personal experience. What I am trying to say is THANK YOU & I hope that the most recent negativity in this blog has not discouraged you (it sure doesn�t appear to have) or anyone else who has been reading it. I don�t want you to feel alone in your position, I think that many more Arbonne Independent Consultants of many levels are reading these posts but are pleased with the way that you are responding and therefore do not respond themselves.
As far as our situation goes, (not to repeat to much of what my wife said previously) we do feel blessed with this opportunity at this time. Quitting my fulltime job working for other people (and making them very wealthy by the way, as I am considered an expert in a field in which this company has the market cornered) was a very difficult decision. My wife mentioned that we �took all of our savings out and took a leap of faith�, we did so in order to focus our efforts in other areas not because we had to make a large investment to start this business, in fact it was a very small investment that we have made back many times over in a very short period of time, and it wasn�t anything even close to some of the figures that others had spoke of previously. Arbonne was & is not our only plan of action but with the results that we have seen from her efforts thus far we feel very confident that Arbonne will be a very instrumental vehicle in getting us to where we want to be (no pun intended, I�m not referring to a Mercedes although it won�t be long before my wife gets hers and I am not far behind).
In closing, I just want to say thank you again Dave & have great trip to Hawaii, I�ll be sure to go with you on the next one!

Mitch

I have been thinking about becoming a consultant and have read this entire page. So I have read the pros and cons of mlms and I feel confident I can make my choice wisely.
There has been some comments made that I would like to have feedback on.

#1 Can you be a consultant without signing others as consultants.I would like to consentrate on marketing the product.From what I read it seems that you NEED to sign up 4-5 consultants quickly. Will you be terminated if you don't focus on reqruitment?

#2 Can you move up the ladder by selling the products only or can you only move up by signing on new consultants?

#3 Puppy Kits? you give a person a $266 kit, they try it for a few days and hopefully they can't live w/o it. If they can live without it they give it to you back. You give it to someone else to try. Hygenically safe? what if the packaging is damaged? products missing? replaced with Oil of Olay? etc.

Laura

Hi Laura, As you know I answered your email, but for others who read your note I�ll post some brief answers.

#1 Absolutely no termination for not sponsoring! You can sign up and just buy product as needed or you can buy product to sell at retail. You're never terminated unless you don't pay your $15 annual renewal or you repeatedly violate company policy. If you're trying to build a network to take advantage of leveraging, i.e. getting paid a percentage on the efforts of others you've trained, then you need to sponsor people directly to you. But there's no time table. Marketing the product is the BEST way to signup new consultants and business builders anyway so you might find a great deal more success sponsoring if you're actively selling product. You need to sell product but also be on the lookout for those who would like to do what you do.

#2 You move up based on sales volume in your "successline"; Arbonne�s term for those signed up under you and those signed up below them and so on. If your volume is generated entirely by yourself then you could probably get to District Manager, maybe even Area Manager, but beyond that it would be hard to maintain the amount necessary each and every month without the volume of those under you contributing to your total.

#3 This actually was big issue just recently as the subject has come up. To do the REsults Approach you do need to make sure you pretty much trust the person and know how to contact them. As far as the sanitation issue goes, the bottles having pumps you need to be wiped down with alchohol before transferring to another client. I think someone suggested there's talk of Arbonne making Night Cream samples available in singles and we hope that happens because the Night Cream is the biggest problem since in the normal jar the product is exposed when opened. Arbonne is recommending we use the sample packs for the night cream.

Kerry,

I am happy for your success with Arbonne. But I need to set the record straight on a few things.

I NEVER said I didn't like Arbonne! I said that I didn't like the way they run their business online. How so?

1) I was told by an NVP that I could create a web site to sell. Turned out to be wrong.

2) Early consultants have been allowed to continue creating their own sites, creating an unfair advantage.

3) Arbonne takes money from people for a service that they cannot use. (search engine submission, etc...)

Arbonne IS expensive. And it has to be in order for the business model to survive. But I don't begrudge them that. I buy the stuff for my wife and she loves it!

Finally, it would not be STEALING leads to build a quality site to promote Arbonne as a business and product. It would be the free market allowing those who perform best to reap the rewards. It has nothing to do with the "best servers". It has to do with marketing.

If you are servicing your customers properly, why would they come to my site? Building a quality Arbonne site is about getting NEW customers.

Anyhow, I just wanted to make things clear.

Congratulations on your upcoming Hawaiian residence. I'm sure you've worked hard for it and it will undoubtedly be a great second home.

Joel

Arbonne consultants,

My boyfriend's ex-wife has just started mentioning her Arbonne experience to us. She gave me some samples last night, and I just tried them today, so no official results yet in what I think, but I'm sure I'll like them.

We are considering getting involved, but here are my questions:

1. I'm still foggy on the sales only aspect. Can you only make money with sales-only if you are selling retail? Meaning, if I sell to someone and get them to sign up to get the discount, I won't receive commission on their purchases? Please clear that one up for me.

2. There's all this talk of area. If I'm going to interest some of my friends or family, they all live in other areas of the state, and some even further. Do they get sponsored by someone more local to them? Is the area thing figurative rather than physical?

3. I understand that the point of the car is the pride of the achievement and all, but I'm really not interested in it. I'm just not a car person. Is there an alternative compensation?

Feel free to email me with responses.

Dave, stop writing the diatribes responding to the naysayers. If people are turned off by the idea, they will say whatever it takes to bash it and get under the believers' skin. They have accomplished that with you, and by responding, you are only proving that your buttons have been pushed and fueling their fire. Those of us who are interested in getting factual information will weed the gossip from the truth and make up our own minds on whether it is for us or not. Just had to get that in there, you're doing a great job explaining things otherwise!

Listen:

Can't we all just get along?? The problem with most people is that they are unhappy with thier life and their job. Living pay check to pay check. What is wrong with taking a risk (and a very small financial risk at that) as compared to owning other types of business'. Please people dare to dream and have the guts to follow your dream. God Bless America!

One bad thing about this company is the Atrocious shipping charges.
1 little 2 ounce tube of oil was 7.00 to ship.
We still havent recieved our product and
our show was closed 12 days ago.

I could could order pampered chef and that shipping would cover a whole collection of stones and pots for only 3.25 and we always recieve it in days.

Everyone at the show we went to are furious. Most will be returning their items.

Sorry, folks...that was JOHN T. Reed's opinion above and not Tom Reed.

I used to be involved with Arbonne, until the dangling carrot ruined friendships and has come into our church faster than sharing Jesus with the lost.

Terri,
I'm just curious, how did it ruin friendships at church? Were consultants competing with eachother?

Well, I started my arbonne business with my friend, who is also my pastors wife. We both started doing it for the same reasons, helping women. I was also lured by the fact that it was a Christian run business.
It was when reaching the next level and reaching the next dangling carrot when we parted ways. I didn't like that all my friends and fellow church family became the lead field.
I started seeking the Lord for insight. One day I prayed that He would help me understand what I was going through. I went online and found two books written by a pastors wife who had experienced the same things that I was feeling.
Athena Dean writes "All that glitters is not God" and Consumed by success, getting to the top and finding God is not there".
So I ordered them and they hit the nail on the head for me. After approuching her about this, we have never spoken. She now an RVP and drives the Mercedes.
I have chalked it up as a learning experience and know that God has a plan just for me.
The area I live is now full of Arbonne sales reps and many people I know have left the church I attend, have become very unhappy about the way she is so focused on it, all comsuming. I even had a lady ask me how the Mercedes ministry at my church was going. I could have just died. I have resigned to know that I did what I was supposed to do and get out. I pray for her often and do love her greatly, but struggle with the whole thing of being obsessed with building our riches here on earth instead in heaven.
Many opportunites to sell Arbonne are take priority over the opportunity to share Jesus instead.

Terri,
What you describe is unfortunate and I�m sorry for the loss of a relationship you once cherished. I hope however, you�re not saying that pursuing making a living, or maximizing your income by choosing a different way to make a living is to be considered immoral. There�s no doubt that pursuit of riches for the sake of riches is not useful and can lead to all kinds of unfortunate behavior, but riches themselves are not immoral. What most people don�t realize is that having money does not change a person, but it often gives one the power to amplify the person they already were. For every person you find who is using Arbonne as means to selfishly enrich themselves, I can find many who are using Arbonne as a means to give them the freedom and power to serve others in ways they never could because of the restrictions of working a job or profession. We have doctors in Arbonne who now travel to third world countries to provide medical services for free since their Arbonne income freed them from their practice. We have other Arbonne VPs who are supporting family members who are ill or injured and can�t work and we have many who use sizable portions of their income to give to those in need. I don�t really want to see Joel�s blog turn into a discussion on the Bible, but the Bibles I own do not teach that it�s wrong to be rich or become rich. It does teach it is wrong to put riches above a desire for or a pursuit of holiness. Your friend will one day discover the error of her attitude no doubt.

Well�if you�re not going to check back Reader, no need to waste my time responding. Plus, I'm sure most would agree with me that there's nothing of value to respond to anyway.

My experience is just that, mine. No one can change how it effected me personally. You are correct, the Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil. The difference is the motivation behind how we view money and possessions. Why and what do we do along the way to get them and what do we do with them once we recieve them. I can not apologize for my references in the Word of God, I didn't write them, but I live my life for Jesus. He says that we are here for two reasons, to know Him and to make Him known. That is what everyhing else we do here on this earth is to lead to. He is the provider of all our wealth and possessions with or without us pushing some products down all of our friends and family's throats. Are we winning people to Christ by doing it. I am so glad that you know people that are putting their income from Arbonne to work in their lives to be able to share their God given talent with 3rd world countries. I too, have been to 3rd world countries, to do the Lord's work there. He supplied for all of my needs to get there to do His will, not mine.
I'm not saying anything against Arbonee itself, just MLM mentality that people get caught up in that takes over their mind, actions and lives.
Many people like myself spent lots of money being lured into beliving that we could fulfill our worldly dreams, it just is so deceptive. The stats of MLM people making any real money is staggering, less than 1%. The takes that I listened to actually told me that if any friends and family weren't supportive to get rid of them from our lives, because they were negative. That is mind control, and many people fall into this life style looking for something to fulfill them. Only Jesus can fulfill our emptiness. He is all I need, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the live" never did He say Arbonne or MLM.

I really have to take issue with the idea that Arbonne is a �Christian led� company. I have never heard that and there is nothing in Arbonne literature that touts that. In fact, they make every effort to keep religious faith out of the official conversations about the company. While it�s true many devoted Christian people are involved and it�s true many apply their faith to the way they run their business, it is NOT a �Christian� company.

Look, here�s the simple truth about business, ANY business: A business exists for the sole purpose of providing a solution to the customer. A business does not exist, or thrive, for the purpose of making someone rich. That may be the result if there�s enough people who need your solution, but it is not the purpose. You succeed in MLM, or any business, by providing a solution to someone�s need. For those who don�t find the products or the business opportunity that Arbonne offers a solution to a need, than so be it. I have no problem with that. I only have been interested in defending Arbonne to the extent that for SOME it offers solutions. That�s not my opinion, it�s the truth based on the facts.
Zig Ziegler says �You can have whatever you want if you help enough people get what THEY want�. That�s the attitude and motivation for ANY successful business.

And Terri, I have no problem with your Christian faith. If you believe that God calls you to do something other than Arbonne that�s great. Do what you feel you�re led to do but don�t feel jealousy or righteous indignation toward those who feel God provided the opportunity to solve THEIR problems, whatever they may be. If you think someone you know has the wrong motivations then talk to them about it instead of criticizing and lumping every business person together and suggesting we�re all greedy and un-Christian.

I apologize for offending anyone here with my Christian beliefs. Where I am Arbonne is totally driven as being solid, moral and Christian organization even though Arbonne itself does not. Here it is taken over our church and other churches with the expectation of making it rich and living a certain lifestlye.
As a follower of Christ, we are called to preach the gospel of Christ, in all we say and do. My current business filled a need for people, but Jesus opened the door for me to offer this service at a means to preach the gospel to the lost and dying world. As a reward, I make money to live on. He promises to provide for our every need, not our every want.
I just returned from a 3rd world country to share the love of Christ and eternal life with Him there. It really changed how I see the way we make money, why we make money and what we do with it. We are the richest country in the world and only peanuts are spent to help those in need.
I have spoken with my friend, but she in so deep she can not see the truth.

Terri...Here's my story. I am a mininsters wife, my husband has been a youth minister for 18 years. I have been an Arbonne consultant for over a year. I have experienced some success. When I first started my business I asked some friends over from church...it was great at first but after awhile I could tell that I was isolating some people. I realized that church is not the place for business. I now do not work my Arbonne business with the people at church. I get out of my house and hand out demo kits and make appointments with people from leads from clients.
I want you to know that several of the Area Managers on my team are doing Arbonne so that they can be fully self supporting missionaries in Thailand, Africa, and the US. I do Arbonne because I want to stay home with my children and I want to help people financially. I was in car sales before Arbonne...go figure. My dream is for my team to build a Habitat for Humanity house. I hold the money loosely. I want my integrity to be very apparent. I want people to know that I cherish them more than the sale. The business of Arbonne has given me more freedom than any other job I've ever had.

Good advice too, Rachel. (I love how I'm the comment girl).. I have nothing valid to add to this site. I'm actually laughing out loud at myself for responding to everyone at this point. Anyhoo, good luck to everyone, Arbonne or no Arbonne.

I have had similar experience with isolation from others and push push push to sell, sell, sell to get to the next level at any expense.
There are lots of other ways to make money and maintain your integrity.

Battle of the Sexes?

Ouch. I could have guessed that an MLM specializing in skin care and consmetics, males would naturally be under-represented. Sure enough...

Out of 21 "New" National Vice Presidents, 1 is male. Of a larger number of archived NVP's, it looks like either 1 or 2 are male.

Out of 21 "New" Regional Vice Presidents, again, 1 is male. Only something like 18 to 20 of somewhere around 770 archived RVPs are male (interestingly, guys named "Joey" occur with surprising frequency; unless that can be a woman's name(?)).

While it's obvious this isn't discrimination, I suspect we'd be hearing about it if the sexes were reversed. Be that as it may, it certainly seems likely to be somewhat of an uphill battle for the guys, since we don't really use many of these products and might find it awkward to attempt to instruct more experienced women in their use (if it comes to that). Besides, while we might like to, most males probably don't have as strong a social relationship with nearly as many women as women are likely to have with women. Otherwise, who knows there may be an advantage (though none come to mind that I would wager on).

Any thoughts?

Rachel,

Thank you! This is the kind of thing those of us wanting to start Arbonne need to hear. This forum has been full of battles about everything from MLM to the existence of labratories to the role of the church in the company!

I came here to find out as much about the process as possible. Do I want to sell it, what is the success rate, how do I build a business without approaching my close friends and family first. I'm trying to make an important decision that can mean anything from just making enough money to finance my wedding to being a stay at home mom when that time comes.

The fact that MLM is risky is a given. The fact that success will take hard work is a no brainer. What we need in this forum is information on the tips and techniques that will make us successful. If I'm already involved in researching, I'm obviously not walking into this with my head in the clouds hoping for a get rich quick.

Sidenote: Does anyone in here know anything about Arbonne's saturation on the east coast? I live near Philadelphia and last month was the first I'd ever heard about it.

Please keep the selling tips advice coming!!

Bob,

The information you�re looking for would be very interesting, I agree. I just have no idea how to get it. Some you could get very easily as it is available at the Arbonne web site, but most of what you ask is not published to my knowledge.

Leah,
I'll be a real straight shooter with you. I'll help answer any questions that I can.
In watching Arbonne explode in growth this past year I can see that some core ideas have begun to shift and it makes me wary. I'll still work my business in such a manner that will continue to give my team the best foundation possible. I personally don't believe it is in buying management levels. It's in selling a great product along side showing others that they can do this too. You have to EARN the Management levels not BUY them.
When you decide to start your Arbonne business, always do what is going to be comfortable for your family financially.
And this is so important...no matter what level the person that you are signing up under...District Manager, Area Manager, Executive National Vice President...make sure that they are working. Working means selling product. If they are just signing people up for the "Business". RUN AWAY. If they expect you to buy a huge amount of inventory for "demo-kits". Huge is over $1000. RUN AWAY. The only way you can be really successful in Arbonne is to sell product. If they aren't selling product then how can they teach you. If they aren't willing to teach you then they aren't a good leader. In Arbonne you have to lead by example. The bottom line of this business is to sell products...hope this helps.

Leah, I�d love to check out your website. Email it to me when you can.

I really must say though I have never attacked anyone for failing or having a bad experience, have I? I�m very sorry when people fail. I know there are people who have had bad experiences. I hoped my first hand knowledge of the business and numerous success examples I could share would have been received the way they were intended; to help those like you with questions. But apparently many don�t see it that way and there are those who would rather use their failure/bad experience as a reason to invalidate everyone else�s success. A bad experience can be instructive and deserve to be heard, I agree, and there are examples here of how I tried to explain how those bad experiences may have happened and what one might learn from them. There are also examples of my agreeing with the writer that their bad experience should not have happened and the person causing it was wrong.

What is really unfortunate is when people claim to read what I write and then make conclusions about what I said, or about me, that aren�t in any way accurate or reflected in my words. And then because I make an attempt to clarify or inform it�s suggested that my �defense� is an indication I have something to hide! Those arguments, and others like it, are intellectually empty and demonstrate no logic at all.

You may very well understand it better when you reach the level of RVP and somebody tries to tell you that you got their by deceiving the uninformed, pushing overpriced products onto people who don�t really want them and that your financial gain is ill gotten by some �scheme�. Hopefully that won�t happen unless you hang around here!

I recently joined Arbonne with much excitement, unfortionately the friends and family that I share this with seem to be withdrawing themselves from me. Some people got really excited, but then when I called them again to continue the steps needed towards becoming a consultant, they wouldn't return my calls. I even have had some people get very dfensive and rude. I'm not being pushy. I knew that this wasn't going to be easy, that I'm fine with, but I don't want to become unlikable because of this. Does anyone have any advice for me on how I could possibly make this work. I really want to be successfull and am willing to put the time and effort in.

Hi Christy,

What you describe is not necessarily unusual. Unfortunately, handling it correctly is also unusual, so let me see if my advice helps. I�m only offering this as a suggestion so feel free to take it for what it�s worth.

Many times what happens when a new consultant is very excited and enthusiastic is their excitement causes those around them to get excited too. In a sense people around you want to feel the same thrill you�re feeling and so before they really have all the information and have time to process what might be required, or even if they have the need or desire, they say something to you that sounds like a commitment, or they fear you�ll think it was a commitment. Now after the excitement wears down and they start to consider the details, or their LACK of details, they realize they aren�t willing to make that commitment and they don�t know how to get out of it without embarrassment, fear that they�ll disappoint you or, depending on your personality, fear that you�ll be angry with them.

What�s important for you to do is reassure them by your actions that you�re not holding them to any commitment. Your next contact with those people should probably not be about the business. You need to establish in their minds that you have no expectations and that your interest is about THEM and not what they could do for you. Ask them about their vacation, their new car, their recent illness, whatever, but focus on your interest in their lives and not YOUR life. Once you�ve established that you not counting on them, you could at some point ask if they would like to hear about how your business is going and try some products. The idea in your conversations should not be a sales presentation, but a genuine inquiry into their needs to see if the products or the business is a fit for them. If you keep the focus on what their needs, desires or problems are you�ll soon discover whether you have a solution. If you think you do have a solution then that�s the time to ask them if they�d like to hear about what you do. If they agree with you that Arbonne offers a solution they will gladly be a customer and/or a partner in the business. Basically it comes down to what is true in all sales. People love to buy; they don�t like to be sold.

I hope that helps some.

Thanks Dave for your advice. I think you are absolutely right. I have been toning it down. I'm going to try to work more on the puppy approach, and foccus more on the product rather than the business opportunity. I have realized that it might just take me longer to grow. I'm hoping that if I just work on getting people interested in the product that everything else will fall into place. I do have an advantage of being an esthetician, so I know a lot about skin care, but I have a disadvantage of not knowing too many people in the area that I recently moved to. I also think I have tapped through my warm market. Do you think I have much of a chance with arbonne?

Hey Christy...
Interesting that Carol would post her story right after you because she demonstrates perfectly how the business works best. Introduce people to the product and those who have great results (which are most btw) will inquire about the business if they have a need and desire. Carol is a classic example of how many of the most successful consultants came to this business. She loves the product, has excellent credentials and has a need for the business. Carol�you�re �why� is what will propel you to great success. You sound like a perfect fit for the business. I wish you the best of success.

You have an excellent chance at success, Christy, if you�re determined to be successful I know a certain ENVP who moved to a new state 4 years ago and knew not a soul. She knew about Arbonne from the state she moved from, but had not done the business until she moved. Her total successline volume now is over 1.5 million per month. You�d faint if I told you how much her checks are. Anyway, approach the business from a desire to serve and help others and they will respond to you more positively than you�d think possible.

Hi, I read almost the entire page of posts. Unfortunately, I had to skip most of Dave's long-winded responses after a while. I find it interesting that when anyone is not gung-ho in favor of Arbonne, or even questions marketing strategies/actual location/etc., Dave is right in there with a lengthy (yawn) and militant rebuttal, often with some nasty-sounding accusation and belittling remarks thrown in, or suggestions for therapeutic intervention. Dave, stop. Let everyone else discuss this topic. We all know your feelings at this point and we can think for ourselves -- without therapeutic intervention! I know nothing about Arbonne but after reading the hostility present in some of the posts in this forum, I can honestly say I'll steer clear of this company. I guess I won't be blessed. Darn! Besides, thanks to some people here, I have found links to products boasting the same benefits without the almost brainwashed-sounding rhetoric from their reps. Thanks Dave!

Wow is an understatement!! I just sat and read this whole blog in one night. I, like many, searched for reviews on Arbonne. And like some found the site addictive, funny, scary, and overboard (sorry Dave, but you earned it whole heartedly).

Had I stopped reading in the middle I would have walked away with a definite "no, I'm not interested." But thanks to the ladies toward the end sharing so many helpful testimonies I am still considering it.

With regard to the deceit in advertising (location, Swiss blah, blah, blah, and the incorrect images) that cannot be taken lightly by anyone in business or experienced with marketing. Rarely can such misconceptions be truly the fault of someone lowly on the totem pole at a corporation. But, mistakes happen, even if dozens of industry professionals and scholars proof the material.

Rachel, I would like to discuss Arbonne with you.

Hey guys, I talked to my sponsor last night. She wants to plan my launch for September! I'm excited, and afraid but I'm going to give this thing my all. I'm not leaving my day job, so I don't have to worry about having to make it big quick. I'm working on my list of 100 people this weekend, and I'm thinking about the people who would really support me and be interested in this opportunity.

It is tough, trying to think of a friend who won't think you are crazy for getting involved in an MLM, but we all have at least one or two who would "get it."

Gabby, keep researching. Don't get involved in anything that you aren't comfortable with, because you won't approach it with the right attitude, and I don't mean that as an attack. Find out as much as you can first. A lack of details and info is what makes most initially excited people fail quickly.

With regard to the fake lab: when you call your credit card company for service, you are not calling your credit card company. You are calling a giant building in India with thousands of people working for hundreds of companies. Your credit card company doesn't tell you that, but I worked for the company who owns the building in India, so I know it's true. A lot of big companies use outsourcing to cut costs. Was the stuff created in a lab by a team of scientists who were contracted by a company named AIRD? Yes, who cares who owned the building?

With the marketing and the flower: Aesthetics will win over true facts sometimes. The flower they used probably fit the color scheme they were going for. They wanted to get the idea across that they are using botanical ingredients, and the average joe is going to see a pretty flower and move on. Make up your own mind on the ethics of that, but most people won't find an inaccuracy of that type to be very important. Sell me a car that doesn't look as advertised, and I'm going to be mad, but use the wrong flower in a picture, and I'll get over it.

Sorry for rambling, I promise not to do it again!

Thank you for that description, Rachel. It�s exactly true and, though some choose to ignore what I�ve said, I did say almost the exact thing earlier when I wrote that the business is not complicated but can be very hard.

I�m going to comment on the last post by �Amy� because of the example it illustrates to show why there�s such contention between me and some others who have posted. Then I�m going to get ready for a golf tournament and my trip to Hawaii, so I�ll shut up for a while. I hope this is instructive for others even while I know some of you will �yawn�.

It occurred to me that the difficulty of communicating with some on here is basically a problem with �right brain, left brain� differences, or some might say, Mars vs. Venus. In most cases I have attempted to respond by dealing with the logic or the correctness of the argument or information that some have posted. I agree I have been harsh at times because, frankly, I am not trying to appeal to emotions or feelings, but to the motives, judgment and sense of one�s argument as well as the accuracy of the writer.

Those like �Amy�, �Reader� and �Confidence & Diversion� have responded to me, not by challenging my logic or my facts, but by taking up an offense against me for the way I made them feel, or how they suspect my comments made someone else �feel�. I don�t want this to be very long, but let me use Amy to show what I mean. (And I�m NOT attacking her.)

Amy makes three things clear. 1. She skipped most of what I said because she thought it was too hostile, 2. She knows nothing about Arbonne and has had no prior exposure to it and 3. She has no interest in Arbonne now because of my hostility. Yet in spite of those facts and reactions, she still felt compelled by her emotions to write over 200 words just to complain about me. I would guess by doing so she FELT better.

On the other hand I react to these kinds of posts from a logical or intellectual perspective and dispute the accuracy of her conclusions as well as the sense of what she says. For example, does it really make sense to judge the potential opportunity Arbonne represents because she doesn�t like ME or what I�ve said or how I said it? (Especially since she claims she skipped most of it) Of course not. If it�s true what she says, that others can think for themselves, then does it make sense for her, thinking on her own I assume, to make a decision about her future based on ME? No�it�s an emotional response.

In business you should appeal to people�s emotions to attract them to your product or service, but you gain their loyalty or commitment to your product or service based on their real life experience, i.e. the logic of the decision. For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.

Should I feel I have something to offer when legitimate questions are asked, I will continue to respond. In the last week I�ve received at least a dozen direct emails requesting my assistance or comments from someone who read my posts, and I will continue to assist those who ask. On the other hand I�ll take into account the emotional side and try to be more sensitive to the �Amys� of the world so as not to hurt their feelings.

Oh brother. Where's Mike when I need him? You forgot to add "God Bless."

Wow - here it is 3:30pm on 8/19/05 and i finally finished reading all of the post. I am an Arbonne Consultant, joined 05/05/ - Love the products, the opportunity seems incredible. I truly enjoyed reading everyone's post. Great points were made. My direct sponsor is an NVP, Valerie Edwards, she made it in 18 months. She teaches us just to do the presentations (and if you can afford to do the Results Approach, then do it). But at least with Parties/presentations you can get a greater number of people in a room at one time. I also use my own products to demonstrate. Demonstrate the RE-9, Thermal Fusion Masque, Salt Scrub (which is always a big hit) and the hand Lotion. In my house we are all the vitamins (and by doing the autoship - you get your health and nutrition products 50% off. You can't beat it. There is nothing bad with getting people to buy products from themselves. I don't understand why all of the negative people want to condemn someone for trying to make a better life for their families. All it is - is an opportunity. And it can be a fun one. To me, hanging with a bunch of people talking about health and skin care - is alot more fun than sitting in an office or a cubicle all day long. So while I am here I am going to throw out my info- I am in Houston, Texas. It's slowly getting around here. Houston is mostly, Mary Kay, Avon and Beauticontrol. We hold meetings once a wk (they are free). If anyone wants information please contact me at aswails@houston.rr.com

Is doing your taxes a nightmare? I've always filed single, E-Z, standard deduction, whatever. I know everything becomes a writeoff. Is it a tough transition when joining near the end of the year? Is it time to just get an accountant?

This was an interesting read for me. Seeing the positives and negatives and I am still glad that I decided to build a business with Arbonne. I started in March of this year. For me Arbonne was the light at the end of the tunnel(I was so excited I couldn't sleep for 2 months). I thought about quitting at times since then, but Christy is right if it was easy everyone would be in. I believe that if you have the right mindset with the right company you can go all the way to the top of any MLM, its up to each individual to decide. For me the short term sacrifice will be worth it, as I like the idea of being the one to decide whether my pay will increase not some boss. I believe if you are honest and have good ethics, success will come. I live in a small town in Kansas and got to DM my first month, EDM my second month and when things got tough my girl gave it up but I'm not going to let that stop me because I've made new friends along the way, Arbonne has great leadership, a great compensation plan and an awsome product.

Main Entry: ar�ro�gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n;(t)s
Function: noun
: a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims

For the most part men understand the value of making decisions and analyzing information to make the best logical decision while many women are often swayed by their feelings which is not always reliable.
_________________________________________________

I take exception to Dave's unfortunate stereotyping of women's thinking skills, which he criticizes as being unreliable. Women have been very successful at building Arbonne into a multi-million dollar company over the past 25 years.
I think that Arbonne President Rita Davenport, Arbonne Vice President of Customer Service Kathy Huffman, and Arbonne Vice President of Operations Carol Hukari would take exception to Dave's criticism and stereotyping of women.

Jodi, I'm so glad to hear that you are doing so well with Arbonne. I'm finding it to be hard to get going, but it is also fun. I know I'm going to be successful in this because I'm not going to give up. It might take me longer than others but I don't care. I'm just going to chip away at this untill I make it. My advice to anyone is to not get all wrapped up in the money right away, take it one step at a time. People who think that they are going to get rich quick end up getting frustrated and give up because they see that this requires real work. I'm working hard at my current full time job as an esthetician as if I was not planning on quitting ever, and in my spare time I'm giving my all to Arbonne. This way when I do get disapointments I don't get depressed about it, because I have a life outside of this that I am successful with. The time will come where I will be able to quit my esthetic job and only do Arbonne, but I'm not going to dwell on that because its' going to be a bumpy road.

I have to admit, this is a really interesting blog!

Although I must say, Dave you have way too much free time on your hands; you need a job, ever think of selling Arbonne?

I have a question for the people that are ACTIVELY selling arbonne. I would really like to see some figures if this is at all possible (estimates are fine):

a) How long have you been with arbonne?
b) What is your current status level (C, DM, etc)
c) How much time and money have you invested in your consultant/business?
d) What forms of advertising do you use when your warm leads are all gone?
e) And the big question -- how much return on your investment have you received (aka - income)
f) Do you use the puppy dog/REsults approach?
g) Did you frontload (Buy products to sell retail)?
h) What do you think your chance of success is?

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

I signed up as an Arbonne consultant 3 months ago despite reading this blog first. Luckily, I saw through the negative comments. I've been doing really well and am on my way to making an income large enough for me to quit my day job. I have no prior experience in MLMs, sales, cosmetics...etc. I just educated myself with an open mind.

I deal with friends and family that sound like many of the posts here - that I'm selling snake oil or have joined a cult. But the truth is I'm working hard to better myself and to grow a business for my family's financial freedom. Meanwhile, they're just armchair critics too afraid to leave the comforts of the only thing they know - the falicy that a "stable" 9 to 5 job is all we need.

If you are considering joining Arbonne ask yourself one question: "Why should I take business advice from a bunch of people posting to an internet site that I don't know the first thing about?". I remember reading about people sinking $$$ into stock tips from people posting their "wisdom" on sites. Please, if you can see the opportunity for what it is - and not get swayed by other peoples opinions - than you can make it in this business. Dealing with these dream stealers will be your biggest obsticle to success. If you can do it, you can succeed.

Arbonne's products are fun to sell. I love them. People love them. I sell so much more than I personally ever thought I could. The response people have when you introduce them to the Arbonne products will really prove my point. Many of the testimonials are life changing stories. I believe in selling Arbonne so much, and the response I get from dealing face-to-face just keeps me more and more motivated.

Enjoy!
Karen

Janice,
I believe you are using a travel set. Does the set you have come in a cute little orange, brown, and gold shiny bag? If so that is the travel set. If it is a row of packets attached together that is a sample packet.

I use the full size RE9 as my demo-kit. As far as hygiene...I sterilize each set with Isopropyl alcohol between clients. I wipe down all of the outsides of the bottles and the inside/outside of the lids with alcohol and cotton balls. I remove the cap and place it in a bowl of alcohol, letting it soak for a few seconds. I replace the cap. I pump the product twice. I don't use the full size RE9 night creme in my demo-kit. I tear off the RE9 night creme packet from the sample. I put it all the sterilized bottles back into a gold bag that I have wiped down with alcohol. I include instructions and my card...at the drop off I schedule the pick up. When I pick up the demo-kit I give them the remainder of the samples until their order comes in.

When someone is launched on my team and they don't have their products yet...I use mine. The same goes with my demo-kits. I let them use 2 of my demo-kits. BUT only for their first few drop offs. Then with their profits and host specials...they purchase their own complete RE9 sets. The travel set you mentioned is a special. You can purchase it for $45 when the retail order totals $250. I have known of people to buy the travel set with their RE9 set order then they get the full RE9 set working as a demo-kit and use the travel set personally. Hope this helps.

Patty, the word of my upline should be enough to tell me what policy is. I shouldn't have to refer to the fine print. My upline was mistaken, pure and simple. There was nothing malicious about it.

The fact is that Arbonne's internet policy for consultants is blatantly unfair and biased towards those who got in before a certain time. They claim to level the playing field for consultants, but they are actually excluding most of the them and providing an unfair advatange to a dozen or so consultants that ARE allowed to market online.

You don't need to read the fine print to understand that.

I have to completely agree with Joel. They are loosing out on a market sector if you ask me. There are people that prefer NOT do do face-to-face business (I being one of them - if I can order online and avoid a sales pitch, I will).

I've also noticed that their agreement states that their consultants cannot use the "Arbonne" name in PPC advertising, but if you go to Yahoo, Google and type in "Arbonne", you see a bunch of women fighting over the key words. So is this another exception to their rules?

Joel& all,

Most of the Arbonne approved websites that you refer to are great, and I am thankful they exist. They are not competition (at least the legitemate ones are not.) As a consultant, I refer to them often and send my consultants to them too. Why? Because they greatly help me improve my business.

These site can recruit, educate and promote the Arbonne business, but they can not sell products directly on their site. The also can not link to the store. They also have to abide by the rules against paying for search words, advertising on other sites, using Arbonne's name in other websites...etc.

Most of these sites are owned by NVP's and they are used primarily to communicate with their team and provide people like me with a ton of great but "unofficial" training material, copies of presentations that I can review, and lots of tips on how to sponsor...etc. There are clear guidelines with Arbonne on what these sites can and cannot do. Arbonne did allow some older sites to remain, and I'm glad they exist.

But there are many Arbonne consultants who abuse the policies. They create their own websites and online stores, post online ads, buy search words, and sell on auction sites. I was thrilled to read that Arbonne cracked down on you, as it gives me hope they will do the same with the hundreds of other consultants who either don't educate themselves (and this is their business therefor their responsiblity, not their uplines), or who intentionally break the rules.

Arbonne may be missing a great opportunity, but if you familiarize yourself with the term "channel conflict" you may begin to see why companies have to focus on using compatible distribution models. If people could buy Arbonne online easily, the perception to a direct seller would be its stiff competition and therefor Arbonne has less business opportunity. And if people don't see a business opportunity with Arbonne, people will go elsewhere. And if people go elsewhere.... well, you can figure it out from here.

Lastly, skin care products sell best using the direct method, not online. Skin care products require a bit more education and consultation than an average product. (The people buying Arbonne online already are educated by a direct seller like me!) Vaccumes, books, CDs, spy cams...etc. do not require personalized consultations and are perfect products for selling online. So, I don't believe Arbonne is missing much opportunity. The direct selling model is best for this product type, and they are ensuring consultants like me have plenty of opportunity.

All the best,
Karen

p.s. what's ppc advertising?

Karen and Curious Cat... I have replies for both of you!

Karen, check out these sites.

http://www.sandratillinghast.com
http://www.picturemebeautiful.com
http://www.ascendingwings.com
http://thewiserway.com
http://www.askthea.com/

Most of them blatantly sell the products or link to the sales pages. Sorry, but this is just unfair.

Curious Cat, the people bidding on the Arbonne keyword are not selling Arbonne. If you wanted to sell Avon or Mary Kay, you would bid on Arbonne because you know people are looking for skin care products. Only Arbonne consultants are not allowed to leverage smart Internet marketing.

That's the facts :-)

Joel

Curious Cat,

Anything called myarbonne is an Arbonne registered site. Joel mentioned in his very first post that Arbonne charges a $39 fee to submit your myarbonne site to a list of search engines. No policing necessary; those sites are legit, as is the fact that they are on a search.

Whew! Dave, when I read these postings all I see in your responses are; "golf, blah, blah,blah, SUV, blah blah blah, $$$$$$$, blah blah blah. You are not helping your case or Arbonne's at all. If you are truly a happy, content-to-not-be-working person, why are you wasting your time here? Your thumbs must be in agony, it would take me all day to respond with my cell phone/blackberry. (Seeing how you spend all of your time at the golf course.) BTW, Watch out for that oncoming golf cart!!

I have been sitting at my computer for over 2 hours reading these blogs from the beginning. Unfortunately, I stopped on Aug 5th and will return later to read the rest. I have just started my Arbonne business and have been enlightened by everyones comments. Dave, you are a wealth of knowledge and I can't believe how much time you have spent defending Arbonne (the products sell themselves). The rest of you may bring up good points, but overall, nobody achieves their dreams by not giving 100% and with negative thoughts. I can't wait to begin this journey and I will look forward to meeting Dave in the future. Best of luck to the rest of you and I hope you will begin to see the glass half full instead of the glass half empty.

Pam

I have been looking into Arbonne because my best friend is in hook, line and sinker. She even skipped her mortgage payment to get started and buy her pups, etc, etc. I have a good job (I work from home) but Arbonne preaches financial freedon versus self employment, and who doesn't want to be financially free? I work hard at my job, often seven days a week. My friend is a very level headed woman, but I am concerned about the fact that she is willing to bankrupt herself for Arbonne. I finally attended her party and told her that I would be researching Arbonne this weekend. (sorry, Dave, I'm sure you will be attacking me next, but you really blew it as far as supporting Arbonne as far as I am concerned, with your droning on and on and your belittling of people and their opinions) My friend calls me up just this afternoon (while I am researching at her request) and tells me, maybe you don't have enough time to put into this. I think what she really means is money. I am NOT going to skip my mortgage payment for anyone. Any comments? I am still considering Arbonne, actually am signed up as a consultant, just not a "business builder". Now Dave, please be gentle. I am not an evil person.

This is in response to a reader. I am sure nobody in Arbonne would suggest that you skip your house payment to start this business. Actually, my upline suggested using a credit card so you wouldn't be using any money out of pocket right away and you can pay it back as you earn money. I think your friend is just concerned that you may not be thinking as positively as she is. She is right than being negative is contagious but she needs to be realistic and know that she may not make enough money to make her house payment. As David has mentioned this is not a get rich quick business so you are right to be concerned. Just don't let that be a reason to not become part of her team. She sounds like the type who wants to run in and not look and you want to walk and take everything in. Best of luck to you both.

CC: I agree that Arbonne's products ARE good. My beef is not with the products. It is with the consultant's terms for conducting business online and the unfair advantage they give to some consultants over others.

A Reader: Please don't judge Arbonne based on Dave or me or any of the negative posters. Research it for yourself and then determine if you are the type of person to work this type of program. People have risked bankruptcy for many enterprises they believe in. It's part of being an entreprenuer, so there is nothing wrong with that. You just have to make sure it is right for you!

Joel

P.S. - I still can't believe how many replies this blog entry has received. Perhaps I should start a real arbonne message board system?

Joel, what an absolutely wonderful idea!! Start a "real" Arbonne blog. I have been reading this one for several weeks now, and I am impressed by the level of knowledge that has been advanced here about Arbonne. I'm also impressed by the level of disinformation that some people put forward to establish (read: promote) their own brand of "information."

Here's my story and I'm sticking to it. Arbonne is a wonderful product. I have been blessed with great skin (thank you, ancestors), but about three years ago as I approached my 60th birthday, I noticed that my skin had started looking a little tired. Since I am a big believer in the use of the internet, I went looking for products that would help my skin. I have tried many of the products promoted on the internet as anti-aging. None seemed to live up to its promise. I also tried many of the products at Walgreen's and other drug stores. They, too, didn't give me results that could be termed "great". My sister suggested I try some products at msnbc.com. They were tremendously expensive (Arbonne is much cheaper), and after using them for several months, I didn't see much of a change.

Then I happened to see the website of Kathy Whittington (www.ascendingwings.com) aka one of the "grandfathered in" sites that Arbonne allows. I had never heard of Arbonne products. None of my friends had shared this great secret with me if they knew it.

I signed up as a consultant on Kathy's website and ordered products to try, at 35% discount. All I can say about my skin is "WOW", which is what my husband says, and what most of my friends I have seen in the last four months have said. Seeing is believing!! My only complaint is that my bathroom is yellow and blue, and the orange anti-aging product bottles don't fit in very well with the color scheme. Ha-ha.

The products are wonderful -- and they do what Arbonne says they will do. I really didn't join Arbonne to "sell" products. But, it is almost impossible not to sell products when your skin has made such a dramatic improvement in a few months. My friends just have to try the products. I sign them up as consultants to get the discount, and here I am with an Arbonne business. My best friend of 50 years has become an Arbonne consultant with me (not our first business endeavor together), and we are ready to make this business part of our plans for retirement. She is using the products and her skin is looking wonderful.

Who cares if there is a "laboratory" in Switzerland? Who cares if the business was started in Switzerland or on the moon? The fact is the products work. And they work without harsh chemicals, animal testing, and other things that most of us care about.

My friend and I are using the "REsults" approach and it is fun and fantastic to be able to help our friends regain the skin they had months, or years ago.

To those who are struggling to make a decision on this business, I would say: Try the products, use them as instructed for a number of weeks or months, and then make a decision about this business. You may be surprised at the reaction you get from friends, family, and even casual acquaintances.

If you are a "Red Hat" lady, contact me and let's talk!!

My sponsor, Kathy Whittington, just promoted to Executive National Vice President on July 1. Congratulations to her and her tremendous organization. While I don't have such grand expectations, with Arbonne, who knows????

Best of luck, Joel. I'm sorry the internet promotion thing didn't work out. I got dinged too for not reading the rules closely enough. But now I have a website where my friends and clients can get information and can buy or sign up as they choose.

If anyone wants information on my business model, please contact me via e-mail.

Best wishes to new consultants, and those struggling to become consultants.

Well, my decision has been made. My friend came to my house last night because I had some questions for her and was not accepting everything she was saying as the gospel truth. My husband and I both felt that we were trying to be "converted", for lack of a better term. We all mutually decided that Arbonne was not for me. Then I receive a phone call from this same friend about an hour after she left, wanting me to meet with someone higher up. I said I couldn't because I had to work. Now I AM A LOSER, my faith has been attacked, and I have been accused of jeopardizing my friendship with her. Needless to say, Arbonne is not for me, and unfortunately I have also lost a friend. Please do not get me wrong, I wish everyone well who decides to pursue the Arbonne path. I just feel that if you step on people and hurt them in order to attain your goal, I don't want any part of it.

Dave,

I am a new Arbonne consultant and read your post concerning Michael Oliver's book. Have you or anyone on your team tried his "Power Up Your Dialogue" series? It is a good bit more expensive than the book and I want to know if I would be getting really helpful information before I spend that much.

Thanks,

Michelle

Tracy,

I am still an Arbonne consultant as there are a trickle of orders that come in, covering the costs of the site.

Your story is a perfect example of the unfair advantage that the "grandfathered" sites have.

Ascending Wings and the others don't have to do anything to get new consultants signed up. Yet, Arbonne claimed it would be unfair for me to use a web site to generate leads.

I may launch those forums after all. Of course, I couldn't use the site to promote my Arbonne business. But it could be a valuable resource for people.

Joel

I�ve got only a few minutes but I want to say to �a reader� that I too am sorry for your bad experience with regard to your friend. I agree with Joel�s comments about some people not being mature or skilled enough, or experienced enough, to handle properly the process of introducing the products and business. Remember, most people getting into this business have no prior experience in regard to sales, or even business in general and they allow their zeal to become overbearing. I�d tell your friend you were put off by her presentation and that she needs to get some training or she�ll get no where in her business.

This is why I am now highly recommending Michael Oliver�s book �How to Sell Network Marketing� The more I read it, re-read it and study it, the more I have come to believe it is a MUST read for anyone in this business. So please�read it! It�s on Amazon for just $13.50.

To answer you Michelle, no I have not tried his �Power Up Your Dialogue� series. But I imagine after reading the book it would be a great additional training. I�m sure it would be worth the investment, but only you can decide if it�s the right thing to do.

Aloha everyone!

Reader,

Your story amazes me, and I am so sorry that you didn't get a more positive experience when learning of the Arbonne business opportunity. There is a lot of training available for your friend (and all Arbonne consultants) on how to PROPERLY approach people about the business, but it seams like she has not yet taken the time to learn the do's and don'ts of sponsoring. Under no circumstances should friendships be lost. Arbonne should not be so high on her priority list. I am sorry you went through this!

You also mentioned not having enough time to do Arbonne. That is the #1 reason people give for not making time to do Arbonne, and it is a true concern for most of us. But let me ask you this - if you KNEW that in 2 to 3 years you could be earning $10K or more a month working part-time, would you be more willing to find the time to learn this business? I'm not guaranteeing success with Arbonne, but I am guaranteeing failure when someone doesn't try. Many (many, many, many)people are making $10K+ per month after only a few years. All of them put in a lot of hard work to get there, and they all allowed themselves to take risks even when they were not comfortable. They were coachable, motivated and focused on the bigger picture. They didn't let people (or blogs!) get them down and stand in their way. I think your friend didn't paint the bigger picture well for you. But if you think you could paint that picture for others, you will be successful with Arbonne. I wish I could talk to you to tell you more. All the best!

Karen (EDM with Arbonne)

Can someone please tell me, without spewing venom and getting completely defensive, why there is so much talk about Christianity and Jesus in relation to Arbonne?

I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told...

joel,

how do you set up a blog like this...I have some server space to use.

what's hte security code for...do?

Rich asked, "How do I buy the products at 65% off?
"is 65% of Retail Volume." on:
http://www.arbonne.com/sub/company/success_plan_ben.html
It's confusing with all the bonus/freebies."

That whole line is "Override Volume, on which overrides are calculated, is 65% OF [not "off"] Retail Volume." You can't purchase the products at 65% off. 65% OF Retail Volume is what we receive our overrides on.

As far as Arbonne being a "christian" company...a consultant may have said that in reference to her upline. It's not affiliated with any particular religion, though in these kinds of companies (more so party plans and direct selling than MLM), you tend to get a greater number of Christian women involved b/c they have the greater tendency to be less "career" oriented and more oriented toward finding something that will keep them home with their children. Please, no one jump on me for saying that...I realize it's a generalization, but hey, it's true!

TS: Sorry if my comment was misconstrued. I truly am not passing judgement on anyone!! I have been told many times that I wear my emotions on my sleeve, and I think that was more what I was trying to convey, in that I do not think that I am personally strong enough, rather than I think I'm better than anyone else!!

Mary

Just wanted to let you know that on the Arbonne web site under consultants, it explained about the delay and told everyone that orders are being caught up this week. It also stated that you would have an additional month to reach the next qualifying level (just as if August was never on the calendar).

I guess I look at this as a Christian type of work because I truly want the people in my downline to be as successful as myself or more so if they are really motivated. If I can help someone else achieve their goals then awesome. Yes, we receive compensation for their efforts but someone below us can kick our butts. Say I put 2 people under me and one starts at a run and gets 4 wide and six deep but i can't get another person directly under me, the person on the run will make way more money than me. I think I am accurate on that so somebody correct me if I am wrong. It may not happen much but it can.

Hi everyone.
Wow what a lot of comments about this subject. I have been concerned and somewhat frustrated about the Arbonne topic and this seems to be my outlet to get this all off of my chest.
I have studied nutrition and detoxing on my own for 10 years since I have had some health problems. That has led me to begin my BA degree in holistic nutrition AND continue into herbalism. I continue to learn so much and in the process my heart has been geared toward educating people and helping them educate THEMSEVLES making wise choices, thus improving health and life. I am apprecciative of Arbonne's attempt to provide a better product by leaving out certain chemicals and animal products. Also the botanicals and herbal base of their products is great! I am also aware that it helps people make money who really are in a bind and that it builds confidence in the consultants. BUT...my beef with Arbonne is that they seem to only give part truths. Has anyone truly read the labels of their products? I mean with an INDEPENDANT mind? There are still several chemicals allowed in them that are very toxic and gross to say the least. (I have heard some consultants say that some chemicals rinse off and aren't left on the skin, but I'm talking about the chemicals that are in the skin care and makeup that we leave on all day.) I have tried ARbonne twice for 12 months total and although I do like the effects of RE9 Transforming Lift, the other products just don't "do it" for me. They tend to burn my eyes even when not near my eyes and they form more wrinkles than get rid of them. Also the makeup makes me break out every time. Most all products do not do this to me. I know that I am probably not the norm, but my MAIN point is that I am concerned for the consultant AND the consumer from a health and educational aspect.
My other beef is the cost. People say the cost is high because the product comes from Swizterland. I know to us Americans that sounds real "impressive". And I also know that Switerland's FDA has stricter regulations on products compared to our FDA. But what is not told is that there are equally pure if not MORE pure products sold in health food stores that are 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost of Arbonne. Yes you will find more expensive brands also, but they are usually worth it and have less chemicals than Arbonne. These products DO get the job done and NO you don't have to put them in the refrigerator to keep them fresh.. (an Arbonne consultant once asked me that). I have done extended research on the chemicals that Arbonne has in their RE9 skin care products and their makeup and I can tell you that even though they ARE botanically based, I disagree on the term PURE. I have chosen not to make this letter a book by listing everything, but I will encourage you all to investigate for yourselves because that is what we all need to be doing. You will see that there are other chemicals in these products and some of them are at the beginning of the ingredient list! The one that really bothers me is Diazolidinyl Urea, or Urea which is a byproduct of Urine. I don't care what a chemical lab does to urine to make it safe. I DON'T want it on my face!! Many well meaning people looking for opportunity are hearing ARbonne's claims. Many take it at face value and then repeat the information usually word for word making them sound like little robots. I understand why people might see Arbonne as a cult ( I don't really think that way) because the company (in my opinion) gets in the way of individual seeking and thinking. This is my concern. Arbonne has this air about them that they are the only pure company (this is what their consultants portray) and this is what gives them a creepy "cultish" feel.
All that to say GET EDUCATED!

Diazolidinyl urea -Established as a primary cause of contact dermatitis (American Academy of Dermatology)
Contains formaldehyde, a carcinogenic chemical, is toxic by inhalation, a strong irritant, and causes contact dermatitis.

Urea or Carbamide:
(britannica.com) the chief nitrogenous end product of protein breakdown in mammals and some fish. It occurs not only in urine but also in blood, bile, milk and perspiration. It is one of the INDUSTRIAL CHEMICALS produced in vast amounts.

"Why It�s Included
This ingredient is used as a preservative in a variety of Arbonne�s
products. Preservatives are essential in maintaining the integrity of
cosmetic formulations as they help inhibit the growth of yeast, mold
and bacteria. Arbonne follows all CIR (Cosmetic Ingredient Review
Board) recommended usage and concentration guidelines.
The Facts
Reports have suggested that Diazolidinyl Urea is a formaldehyde
releaser but there is no indication that the use of Diazolidinyl Urea
as used in cosmetic products would release formaldehyde at
concentrations that would exceed the limits recommended for
formaldehyde. On the basis of clinical data, the CIR expert panel
concluded that Diazolidinyl Urea is safe as a cosmetic ingredient up to
a maximum concentration of 0.5%. In fact, RIPT (Repeat Insult Patch
Tests) sensitization studies using cosmetic products at concentrations
up to 0.4% on normal subjects were essentially negative."

I read around, and it's controversial...meaning, the jury's out on it. It's not hard-and-fast, a horrible ingredient. I found several other "natural" lines who use it as well.

anoyed, has it ever occured to you that most businesses replicate a pyramid. Corporate america for ex. ceo, presedent, vice presedent, middle management ect...Arbonne is one of the few companies where you can join in after somone, and surpass them many levels based on the work that you put forth. Not to mention there are no poletics in this business. It is quite simple, you work hard you make more money, you don't work hard no money. You can think what you want because those kinds of comments are made by people who don't have what it takes to do this business anyway. Instead of judging the people who work with Arbonne maybe you should do a little research and get your facts straight.

Christy, i'm not judging anyone per se. but you are exactly right, Arbonne is just like any other company. The fact is, you put more work into anything, you get more out of it. that's a life lesson though, NOT an arbonne lesson. im just sick and tired of everyone acting like arbonne dropped out of the heavens to save everyone's apparently-wretched lives. i wish that the arbonnites would quit trying to shove their so-called "hard work" down everyone's throat because their "hard work" is usually pushing someone to sign up so they can have more people under them. dont try to deny it... its just the truth. im not slamming anyone for their success. Go team go. but im sick of the presentation of arbonne being portrayed as the second coming or something.

db - My point was that perhaps DU is an ingredient that has no "purer" alternative. I am interested to know the other chemicals that you speak of.

Annoyed - We defend Arbonne b/c it is worthy of defense. It is NOT a pyramid, for as I believe you meant to say, they are ILlegal, and therefore we could not exist if we were a pyramid.

Apparently people have a misconception of the pyramid definition. A "pyramid scheme" is one in which people pay a large cost - say $500 or $1,000 - which does not give them any products in return...it's just a "licensing fee" or "joiners fee" or something like that to become part of the company. These eventually fall apart b/c there's no one else to sell to after the start fees are used up.

Arbonne, however - much like Mary Kay, Avon, The Body Shop at Home and the like - has a product that is consumable and therefore needs to be reordered on a regular basis, keeping the consultants in business. I've never heard of anyone referring to Mary Kay as a pyramid, so it shocks me when someone says Arbonne is.

Besides, if you were employed somewhere and absolutely LOVED your job, wouldn't you defend it if people were wrongly accusing your company of being unethical?

TS
I appecciate your professional and calm replies to these controversial matters.
I would encourage you to look at the list of ingredients on your Arbonne product and do some research for yourself. My point remains that people need to get facts even if it requires a lot of digging. You can't trust everyone and what they say. I don't even expect you to trust me. Just get your own facts. I will conclude this by saying if bat poop or a derivative of it is not okay to put in cosmetics, then a derivative from urine isn't either in my book. I do not believe that this amazing scientific world with the help of God's wisdom can not come up w/ a purer alternative. whatever that's worth.
db

What's with all the ingredients checking? We all consume all kinds of stuff that would make us vomit if we really knew about it. Does Arbonne put chemicals in its products? Yes, they don't lie about that. Whether the Urea is synthesized or not, guess what else has urine, and human feces, all over it that you probably touch before touching your face, or even your mouth? Money! And we all handle that several times a day.

No one researches each ingredient of each product s/he uses on a daily basis. If you have particular needs, do your research. If you find a product that works for you, then use it.(stepping off soapbox)

Rachel, I know you spoke about not making more of an investment than you can afford. I've paid my $29 and bought my $96 now you're in business pack. Apparently I need to spend about $400 more just to have product to show. I'm already planning parties for after my sponsor stops helping me at the end of September. We're using her show stuff until then. It sounds like I need to get these things to do parties. I'm not even worried about the drop-off kits right now.

Do you, or anyone else here, have any advice about this? I'm waiting to hear if I'm approved for the Arbonne MBNA card, but my credit is not exactly spotless. I really really want to make my business work, but the affordability is a little scary right now. Has anyone else with less than perfect credit been approved for the card? Someone please help me!

TS,

Thank you for your help. So you're suggesting, which is what I was already thinking is a good idea, that I should wait until I see my sales from my launch, and use those profits for buying my first Essentials set? Will shipping be straightened out enough by then that I will have the products before October?

Now I just have to push the crap out of my launch, and get these gals to spend spend spend. :) Just kidding, I'm not going to hound anyone. I will just tell my sponsor that this is what I can afford to do, and we will just have to work with it. She's been very supportive; I think she's just worried about me being prepared.

db

Thanks for the list. I recognize a lot of these as being things I checked out, but I will check again. I'm just that kind of person...I have to investigate EVERYTHING! :-) I actually read some of Sam Epstein's info when I was researching and actually emailed him!

For what it's worth, I checked with Arbonne and the UREA we use is synthetic, not from urine.

Leah - good plan! I think the shipping thing will be figured out. One of my consultants ordered products two weeks ago and got them in the normal time frame.

:-)
t

TS

It is nice to know someone else who does so much researching! : )
I'm sure that I'm frustrating people who have been following our conversation, but I have to say that synthetic ingredients bother me also. I guess I'm pretty stinkin' picky! I'm just one of those "weird-o's" that refuse to follow the crowd. Can we just agree to disagree? : ) thank you for all of your comments.

Tina,
You are a great mediator! thank you also for your comments.

I've been reading these posts for the last two hours. I'm totally confused right now.
I became an Arbonne Consultant at the end of July. However, I didn't really start marketing till the end of August via business cards and letters. I still haven't received my Open for Business" package..., it is still back ordered. I'm having my business launch in two weeks.... and am hoping for a large turnout.
Not quite sure about this whoe thing...., never have been into MLM and this is all new to me..., however, I'm having some fun doing it if for nothing else than to see how far I can go with it.
I also love their products, so, if it fails, I lose nothing but gained things that I will use every day.
My question is.... Is it legal to market these products through another consultant in a beauty salon, spa, chiropractors office, etc...
Can anyone answer that question for me?
thank you..
Maria

Maria,
You may sell through such places as salons, doctors' offices and spas as long as they are "by appointment" businesses. You may not have stacks of inventory on the shelves, but can use that as a method to schedule individual appointments.

I hope this helps.

Kim

Is there anyone doing the results approach and classes at the same time? I just wondered. I do the results approach and have found success, I'm a district manager and half-way to area. I'm just having a hard time getting my asap points and I wondered if anyone still does classes with the results approach. I'd appreciate POSITIVE input.
Thanks

oops...my email address is bkatz68@comcast.net. the bmkatz is for my myarbonne website. looking forward to hearing from you....

beth

I was told from the very beginning, as a selling point, that Arbonne is a Christian based company. Just what I was told...

Posted by: A reader at August 29, 2005 11:11 PM

I was lead to believe that Arbonne was a Christian based organization. It is not. Is Arbonne not an MLM? MLM, pyramid schemes, network marketing and referral marketing are the same. There are a few great books that explain, "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick, and on MLM Survivor.com recommends a great on called "Consumed by succes" by Athena Dean.

Posted by: Terri at September 8, 2005 12:01 PM

I certainly hope NOT! I will not join it if it is. Can anyone out there verify if it is?

Thanks
Marnie

Hi all. I wasn�t planning to participate in the latest discussions because some others have very competently responded. But I feel I should respond to �pilot� because he includes me specifically in his remarks.

First of all, I find no shame in being called a �dreamer�. I�m glad I�m a dreamer, if I am, because it�s dreams that motivate one to be more than they might be. Most people don�t dream, and therefore, don�t go after the things that will make them feel fulfilled and content. I actually wish I dared to dream bigger! I might accomplish even more. I�m sure pilot that you started your business because of a �dream� or desire or motivation to do and be and have more than you were otherwise able to. One of my dreams was to NOT have to work 16 hours a day anymore. We did that for 14 years and I can tell you it comes without any permanent reward. The time I have now I use to spend with my daughter and my wife and it is much more rewarding and a dream come true. I play golf when I can, which is certainly not always, but more than it used to be. The exercise, enjoyment of friends and satisfaction of learning to play better indeed has a lifelong reward. As it�s been said many times that NO one on their death bed wishes they spent more time at the office. Do you have children pilot? I can tell you they are not impressed by your 16 hour day, especially when it causes you to miss soccer games, dance recitals or other such activities. Just being able to pick up my daughter at the bus stop at the end of the school day is reward enough for doing this business.

Additionally, to assume that because you invested heavily in the establishment of your business that you are now immune to any threats to the viability of your business displays a naivet� that is frankly astounding. Huge investments and traditional business models do not protect you from changes in technology or powerful competition that can render your business obsolete almost overnight. Think of the hundreds of small businesses displaced by mega-store competition or new technology. The examples are endless and there are probably many in your neighborhood. Do you have a Staples, a Walmart, a Sports Authority, a Borders in your area? Then you certainly have displaced small traditional businesses over the last 2 decades.

Is Arbonne a guarantee? Of course not and nobody has said that. It�s not about guarantees. It�s about the potential. Arbonne offers POTENTIALLY a significant return on your investment. POTENTIALLY better than any other opportunity you may find for the amount needed to start. Can it or will it collapse? I doubt it, but it might. Who knows? There�s no evidence to suggest that it will anytime soon. Because Get Real or Pilot say it will is not evidence. Who would have thought five years ago that Arthur Andersen, one of the worlds largest, most influential and most profitable accounting firms in the world would disappear, virtually overnight? No one knows for sure what the future holds for any enterprise, even yours Pilot. I have confidence in the management, the products and the business model so I have no fears that would prevent me from enjoying the success Arbonne has helped us achieve so far and the dreams that have come true and are coming true. Not only for us, but countless others as well!

And just a quick comment to Marnie: The question of Arbonne being a �Christian company� has been answered here several times. In fact Joel, just a few posts back, offered an excellent suggestion as to why this misconception may be out there. Read back a while Marnie and you�ll find your answer.

Some food for thought (this helped me walk away from Arbonne - and all MLMs):

I've been told there are over 300,000 total consultants signed up with the company last month (wholesalers, business builders, etc.).

Knowing this, let's crunch some numbers.

Effective July 2005 (Arbonne demographics map) there were:
151 - NVPs - less than 1% of total
588 - RVPs - less than 1% of total
2441 - AMs - 1% of total
13,093 - DMs - 4% of total

Okay, I'm pretty cocky, but to realistically think I will be one of the less than 1%?!?

Now let's look at the numbers a different way -

Percentage of NVP, RVP, etc. from the total managers only (total of all managers is 16,273).
151 - NVPs - 1% of total mgrs
588 - RVPs - 4% of total mgrs
2441 - AMs - 15% of total mgrs
13,093 - DMs - 80% of total mgrs

Okay - maybe a little bit better odds - but what does this mean financially?

Average compensation check for each level (numbers from Arbonne corp):

NVP - $29,050.27 - 1% of biz blders make this
RVP - $6,666.43 - 4% of biz blders make this
AM - $1,557.26 - 15% of biz blders make this
DM - $304.13 - 80% of biz blders make this

I bought into this because of my ego saying I could be one of the special 4% or less.

Just something for people to think about if they are considering the business.

Am I not capable of dreaming? Oh, I dream big! I have another business that I neglected because I worked on the Arbonne so much. Luckily, I didn't do permanent harm and things are starting to get going pretty great! :) Why did I try Arbonne when I already had a business? Ego and greed are pretty powerful forces....

Hugs, Tina

Hi Tina.
I�m always hesitant to respond your kind of post because I�m never sure if you�re really looking for an answer to your comments or if you�re just �venting� and looking for support that what you say is valid. Even though I suspect the latter, I�ll respond just so the flip side of the coin gets some exposure, so to speak. I�ll try to keep it short, but answers to complicated questions often take bit of explaining.

A lot of times arguments like yours are really just a way to provide a logical reason to let yourself off the hook for a commitment you made or for a vision (dream) you�ve decided not to pursue any longer. If you decided not to do Arbonne that�s okay; don�t feel guilty about it or feel like you�re letting yourself or someone else down.

You are saying that because only 1% are NVPs and another 1% are RVPs that your chances of joining the 2% are slim. Is that correct? Let me look at it another way. Since an RVP or NVP usually has anywhere from 50 to 200 consultants, even more, signed up under them, either directly or through those on their team, it naturally makes sense that they would be represented by the 1% figure. The thing to keep in mind is that as the company grows and sales increase, the pie gets bigger, and the 1% number also grows. One percent of 2 million will be a lot of NVPs. You can join the 1% because there is more and more opportunity to place yourself at the top of YOUR 100 person organization.

Secondly, the 1% did not get there by luck. So for you to get there does also not require luck. They get there because of their productivity. If you develop the amount of business needed to achieve that level, you will join the 1%, or whatever percentage it is. Not everyone will make it. No dispute there. But the reasons are not because of chance or lack of opportunity.

Only 1% of Americans earn $100K a year or more. But would you say because of that low percentage it�s impossible, or unlikely YOU could earn that much? Of course not, because the reasons have to do with things like education, skills& abilities, work ethic, habits and the choice of activity (business or career or product) and not the environment (economic and/or social structure). You don�t earn that much as an elementary school teacher, so if that�s how much you want to earn you have to choose a different path. That may not be your goal, but with the right skill, effort and product you CAN earn that much or even more. Just don�t let yourself be defeated by statistics that have no bearing on YOU personally. Arbonne represents an opportunity and a pretty darn good one. But it�s not automatic. You have to earn the success.

I can�t speak to your ego and greed comments because I don�t know how you define those terms. However, self confidence is not egotistical and desire for financial freedom is not greed. You can be poor and be greedy and you can be unemployed and be egotistical. I really doubt that you were motivated by greed or ego, Tina, but if you were those traits didn�t go away when you stopped doing Arbonne.

I understand what you�re saying Tina, so I�m not trying to �get into� anything with you and certainly not trying to punish you. I�m just offering a friendly rebuttal to your very reasonable comments. I read your previous post to mean that because only 1 to 4% of consultants make it into the VP status that you felt your odds of achieving that level were slim. I pointed out that of course only 1% would be NVP because it takes a team of 100 or more to reach the sales to qualify for NVP. That shouldn�t prevent or even discourage you from building that team of 100 or more. Most people have still never heard of Arbonne. There�s a lot of business yet to be developed.

With regard to what you just said, I agree that painting a rosy picture, saying anyone can do it and that you need no skills to succeed is not an accurate or fair portrayal of what it takes. It does take a great deal of personal improvement and development to become the leader necessary to grow your team to the size needed to propel you to NVP, and Arbonne is a company committed to such development. But, it is, or can be, a process. You don�t have to start being perfect. Just like my 3rd grade daughter is now working on basic arithmetic in order to later handle algebra and other advanced mathematics, a starting consultant works on simpler concepts of personal growth initially and slowly works their way toward learning the skills needed to face the more difficult challenges of business and leadership sure to come. Some may start out with the skills necessary and do well quickly so they enjoy a head start. Many more need to learn them as they go, but I�d never tell anyone they�re not capable of learning them. I do believe anyone who is determined and has a �whatever it takes� attitude and is coachable can succeed.

I say this because there are several people I�ve met who initially I thought there�s no way, she�s wasting her time, and yet with remarkable determination and commitment they eventually reached their goal. Likewise, there are those who I thought were the �can�t miss� kind who then did nothing and got nowhere. Therefore, I agree that not all should go into this business, but probably for different reasons than you believe. Your friend needs to be assured that Arbonne is not a race. For some the work will indeed be harder. Most people do not engage in efforts of personal development and growth because it is so hard. Those who do will certainly see the value in it whether they ultimately succeed with Arbonne or not. And by the way, success for some may not be NVP. They may not want that role. Success for many may just be an extra $1000 a month.

I really don't think we disagree that much, Tina. I just think you look at some of the issues you bring up as obstructions and I look at them as obstacles. And that's okay. I'm sure there are subjects where our perspectives would be reversed. I certainly appreciate your comments because they reflect what many people feel, and you expressed them without including any personal attacks. If you ever change your mind about doing Arbonne I know you�d do great!

Amway-Arbonne all the same. All the money no personal life or identity.

by the excuse my typing one hand to work with!!

Hi Eric,
If you want to be successful with Arbonne you will, but it is not a "get rich quick" thing. It takes hard work. I will tell you though that the only way you will not succeed is if you quit. Some people make the big money in 6 months and some make it in 3 years, but they all have 1 thing in common and that is that they never gave up. In my start month I went through a lot of ups and downs wondering if I made the right decision. I kept on thinking what if I don't make it. The thing is what if I do make it. I'm seeing a lot of people of all types finding great success with Arbonne. Now I'm at the point where I know I am going to succeed. It might take me a little while to make the big money, but in the mean time I'm having fun and making enough money to cover some bills. If you put a lot of pressure on yourself to make it rich right away your chances of success aren't going to be as good as if you enjoy the opportunity that you have and foccuss on helping others to have the same opportunity.

To answer Kim's question...the book is great!! I finished it in 2 days & I'm going to re-read it after this other book I'm reading. Reading that book definitely confirmed my decision, again, that Arbonne is the right way to go.

Hi All-
I have been invited to work for Arbonne by a friend of mine and am glad to have run into this site. I'm only 20 years old, am in college 2 days a week, work part time at a bank and am not happy. My job works well for my schedule but I don't make any money at all and don't particularly enjoy it... It's been impossible for me to save money for the past year and I really would love to move out of home and away from my parents sometime soon. I don't really have too many close friends but my parents are VERY well rooted into the community here and know EVERYONE. I love talking to people and meeting new people so the "Arbonne Party" seems as though it would work well for me, the only thing I'm concerned about is finding other people I can convince to work with/under me. Any help I could get would be wonderful. Thanks ALOT!!

I just signed on with Arbonne last week and I'm very happy about my decision. I'm a little confused since it says that I really don't have to sell anything if I don't want just get people to sign up under me. How would I make any money by just signing people up? What has been everyone's best approach to making this work? Is it giving out samples, business cards, literature etc?

I am in the process of trying the Nutrimin C trial pack and I've seen some positive results. HOWEVER, the main reason I showed some interest in Arbonne was because the consultant told me that it was natural, botanical etc. and I currently use an organic skin care line. Unfortunately I just looked up a few of the ingredients and they contain exactly what she criticized other major products as having - glycerin (diesel), methyl, propyl, butyl parabens and other carcinogenic and questionable chemicals! I'm disappointed and feel like I've been lied to. I also feel like a fool as I started telling my friends and family about this new healthy innovative line - I even tried converting a Mary Kay consultant - based merely on the information that was provided by the consultant. I should have done my research earlier. I'm glad I haven't gone too far with this. You may want to Google some ingredients and see what comes up or visit http://www.ewg.org/reports/skindeep/category.php?ewg_cat=Anti-Aging%20Treatment to see which products are dangerous to us as consumers. You will be surprised. I imagine Arbonne is not listed yet because they have patents pending in the US and under current law, cosmetics are not required to go through vigorous testing.

Okay�I had to do this. I don�t want to see well meaning people get confused or persuaded by misinformation. Just to support my point about the organizations that put out information about these so called �dangerous, cancer causing� ingredients, I decided to check out this �Environmental Working Group� (ewg.org) and you�ll find pretty much what I said. Check out this article:

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/113

Pay close attention to this line in particular �The Environmental Working Group (EWG) is the cauldron where some of the worst science and most creative smear campaigns are cooked up.�

The article is referring to organic foods at that point, but it seems reasonable to conclude that their �science� in other areas is just as dubious. I think you�ll agree after reading the article. So be careful what you read and be confident in Arbonne as there is no evidence to suggest that you can�t trust Arbonne�s wisdom in choosing ingredients.

I don't know who you are Michael, or why you felt the need to comment, but up until you arrived we've avoided profanity. It's not welcome and it invalidates everything you said, not to mention you're months late with it. Try to contribute something of worth and keep your mouth in check. It says a lot about you and none of it is good.

this site has helped to definitely NOT join Arbonne!

thanks to Joel!!

Hi Maria,
Be assured no one is going to attack you for asking a good question. This question comes up regularly with new consultants and is very easy to understand once it�s explained to you. If I would criticize you for anything it would be for charging Arbonne with being �unethical� before you know the reason.

Arbonne collects retail sales tax on your wholesale purchases because it is assumed that you will resell your inventory at retail prices. Therefore, the retail sales tax is collected in advance. By doing it this way Arbonne satisfies the tax collecting agencies in each state so that the consultant does not have to have a Sales Tax license and do the monthly or quarterly reporting and depositing of the sales tax funds collected that would be required as a licensee. Basically, it�s done this way to keep you out of trouble. Yes, you may pay more in sales tax than is actually owed, but it�s much more convenient. The �difference� goes to your state.

If that bothers you, Arbonne does allow you at the Area Manager level to register as a business account with a sales tax license and agree to pay your own sales tax. That way you can collect the tax on the actual amount you charge for the product. But realize, you then have to keep very strict records of your sales and remember to file on time. Most states have very harsh penalties for late payment of sales taxes, including jail time for those who try to avoid paying altogether. I think you�d agree Arbonne�s way of doing it is quite sensible.

There are over 500 people with an Arbonne paid Mercedes. And, to give you an idea, our quarterly Federal tax deposit due next month is more than twice what I earned in a whole year when I first started working full time. Ouch!

It's true.. I see Arbonne Mercedes around town all the time. I think I live in "Arbonne Central"

Joel

Hang in there Leah. The hardest part of this business is the first few months. But work through these challenges because you will then be so much better prepared to support and encourage your team as they go through the same startup issues! That's how leadership begins.

I am thinking about getting into this but it seems like a real pain in the butt...and I am the first person who thinks that these people "friends and acquaintances" bothering me to buy something are jerks. I don't want to be a jerk like them!

I've read all the posts and feel as if I am traveling with my kids on a long trip in the car. "He's touching me", "She's looking at me". I think you all need to grow up and remember the old saying, "sticks and stones". Geeze its a stupid makeup company that allows moms to make an extra 200 bucks every couple of months. It's not a life changing ideal. It's the old fashioned run of the mill MLM, deal with it. Sure a handful of people make some change but most don't and won't. It is unfortunate you are not allowed to have your own website that any person can build theirself in an hour. Sure the people with the "grandfathered" webite have a distinct advantage butr so does the kid that inherits daddy's business or money. Sure they feed you the lines and want you to recruit people to make more, who wouldn't want you to sell their products to make them more money. Sure the market will be saturated soon and you'll lose you 29 dollar investment. Sure it's just like the rest, "come to my house I have a great deal for you". If you don't make it you just did not give it enough time and quit, but please don't quit because then your upline person can't make money off you and so on up-the-line. My sister inlaws have been putting lots of time and effort into this business and each time I see them it's Mercedes this and Mercedes that. Just ask either how much they make and its always the same standard Amway answer,"well if I worked harder I'd make more", press them and find out it's about enough to buy 2 tanks of gas for their virtual Mercedes a month. It's all about control, top controls the bottom to excite them into working harder. Dave is the perfect example of this control factor. "Look at me I have a Mercedes and can go on trips", "work harder at it people so I can get another Merceds and go on more trips". I certainly did enjoy reading Dave's responses, very entertaining, go Stephen Covey go.
So if you want to make a coupla of bucks or get discounted makeup then plop down your money and join the Lemming Parade. Oh and I just read in TV guide where I can make 5000 a month stuffing envelops or assembling widgets at home.
Come on people wake up and smell the MLM.

Alright, I DID IT!

There are now Arbonne Forums so you can discuss the Arbonne product and opportunity.

Check it out!

http://www.fantasticskincare.com

Having read through this blog, I'm exhausted! A word of wisdom: keep your comments to a short paragraph and more people will read it! I have only bought Arbonne for myself. I just discovered that the dermatitis on my hands (red, itchy rash)was cured with Arbonne's Hand Cream! Over the years I have tried everything from OTC hydrocortisone to prescription creams/ointments. Diprolene worked the best, but didn't cure it. By chance I noticed my hands looking better in the mornings after getting up. I realized I had recently started putting the hand cream on before bed. I ceased the prescription stuff and started applying the hand cream on the affected areas about 3-4 times a day. Almost immediately my hands were better! Within 3 days, my problem disappeared! Great stuff!

Kathleen,
The Herbal Foot Care also works very well. I have been battling Eczema on my right hand for several years and now that I only use Arbonne lotion and have replaced all the perfumed/anti bacterial soaps in my house with the cleansing gel, the condition is MUCH better.

Kim

If you are disappointed in Arbonne you might want to try Mary Kay Cosmetics. You get 50% discount and shipping is only $8.95 no matter how large the order!

Maureen, try not to use this site to make that decision. Everyone here talks to much without ever really saying anything. Talk to *real* people and ask their opinions.

I'm a little confused. Ellen | April 23, 2005 03:44 AM had said something about folks getting to own their own business and be independent through Arbonne, but if the company forbids you to market your product as you see fit, I do not see how that defines true independence. If I owned my own business, I'd like to think I could sell my stuff however I felt would be best. So, you say you own your own business, and that probably feels good, but you are actually just working for Arbonne right? Because if the business was truly yours, no one else would actually have a say in how you decided to run it, right? Or am I just confused as to what owning something is really all about?

My wife and I have been kicking the idea of getting into Arbonne since she went to a local seminar hosted by one of the RVP of the area. I supported her decision then on whatever she did. We prayed about it, and yesterday she signed up to be a consultant. I cannot yet share a success story, but I plan to in just a few months. The outrageous posts submitted by some of these posters are prime examples of the new american way. "give me my money, and I do not want to do anything for it." This mentality is now what is ruining corporate America. These are the same people with little to no work ethic, and expect someone or everyone to give to them just because they are alive and taking up space. I am a firm believer in making an honest living and working hard to make that living. My wife and I both work 40+ hrs. per week at our jobs, so we know what work is. When an opportunity arises to increase our income, but more importantly, allow us to contribute more to the kingdom of God, then I would think one would be less than wise to not pursue the opportunity and work just as hard at that business or opportunity as they would in their corporate job. Through my research in this new opportunity, I found this article published by a non-biased magazine. http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,285135,00.html This explains the real difference between the scam and Network Marketing. I would encourage anyone who is considering being a consultant to go for it. In the sceme of a business, it is really a VERY small investment, and if the worst happens, you can still use the product you spent your investment on. What is their really to lose, but look at the possibilities to gain.
Good luck to all, and I will keep you posted as to our sucess. We plan to have our car by the end of this year, or the first of 2007. God bless!!

While Arbonne may be good for some people, it has helped destroy my future with my ex-fiance'. That's right, Arbonne was the FINAL STRAW and we are NO LONGER engaged! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and here is mine. Don't do it if you are having financial difficulties to begin with. My ex-fiance' would not tell me how much money she has taken in [so one can assume one of of two things, #1 She is squirreling it away, or #2 To get the money to come it will take more time as she invests a great deal of time & money into this MLM program. They suck you in to this by dangling numbers that are just too good to be true. In less than a year she thinks she will have a Mercedes. They give you some very exciting TITLES for your position [when you start out] which I think ONLY inflates your ego improperly] She has spent over $3000 overdrawing at least one of our credit cards and forcing it to a unconcienable 29% APR. Yes this may work out for her but it helped destroy us a couple. I wish her the best of luck with this venture but it will be without me. I don't care if she eventually becomes wealthy with this MLM but I would think that a majority of people will be on the losing end. Some of the products seem to work very well, but they are incredibly expensive. They have a incredible marketing plan and supply very little pre-printed information for FREE. They expect you to print out your own stuff and sell their outragesouly priced products to everyone and anyone. I hope some of you will heed my advice and save your relationships, marriages and money. If this does help you, as a thank you to me, please donate $25 or some food to a local shelter. -richie

I am thinking about signing up as a consultant, but would be interested in having more knowledge of the products themselves before doing so. Any ideas?

Any thoughts on the puppy system flooding the market? I'm considering becoming a consultant, but worried it's on the downhill slope.

Is anyone in the SW Florida area? Interested in learning the business together? I am still figuring all of this out and would love to meet some other positive people who are just starting out or who are looking to meet new friends!

I just got introduced to Arbonne 3 days ago, and I can already tell you that I LOVE THEIR PRODUCTS! I can see and feel the difference Arbonne has made in my skin. As for all the comments about how expensive Arbonne is... Before Arbonne I used MD Formulations and Acqua. They are both excellent products and worked very well for me, however I can't recall them giving me a check for buying the products. My cleanser cost about $42.00. My exfoliator cost about $40.00. My moisturizer cost about $50.00 to $75.00. Honestly, good skin care is expensive - you get what you pay for, and believe me I gave those inexpensive brands a shot too, and I was not impressed. I am thankful to the posts on this site. The negative comments have actually convinced me to give Arbonne a try (actually the responses to the negative comments have convinced me.) I am very excited and I am looking forward to great rewards. So, as for the question "To Arbonne or not to Arbonne?" I SAY ARBONNE!!!

I too have been recently introduced to Arbonne, I am in no way looking for a quick rich sceme but just a way to make a little extra income as I raise my children. I truly believe in the product and believe in the relationships built around the company. I have met many new people and feel truly blessed this has become a part of my life. I am looking forward to growing and spreading the good news about the product and the company.

OOPPS - I meant to say: 8 of 10 of you will not be hear next year.....

People, please do not post on here out of ignorance! If you are going to be negative towards Arbonne, please at least know what you are talking about! (if you are thinking about joining Arbonne, take "Joel's" and "get real's" comments with a grain of salt. They are dream stealers. I've seen some negative claims that are just plain false. (pyramid scheme, products are way more expensive than other department store brands, you can't make money at it and only the person at the top makes money...pa-lease)
I LOVE the product and the business. I like the posting of Renee (may 21, 05) and Dave (June 13, 05)Take those to heart! Yes, people are making more than $25K per month. My good friend has been in Arbonne for 3 years and is making $40K+ a month (and growing)...I've seen check stubs. So, go for it and realize your dreams! Yes, it takes work, but at least you get out of it what you put into it! That's more than I can say about most jobs that I've had! I would also highly recommend Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Don't let corporate boss's bully you around "sir, can I take time off", "sir, can I take more than an hour for lunch?". If anything looks like a pyramid, it's corporate America! You are working for the person that's making all the money! Some people just don't "get it" and that's a shame. The people that "get it" are the ones realizing their dreams and having time freedom and financial freedom! Here's to you, fellow Consultants! You know what I'm talking about!

Dave - I don't know if you still check in here, but I've enjoyed reading your comments/arguements on the various topics concerning Arbonne. I've been approached about joining and have been looking high and low for the pros and cons. I have a few questions for you...would you mind dropping me an e-mail?

Thanks,

Patrick

I have been reading from the top and it is taken awhile. BOY, lots of info.
I started with BeautiControl cosmetics (marykay) , Big mistake, talk about front end loading. Ok enough with that, then became a happy Melaleuca customer, for only $29 told a few friends and yeah I get a little thank you check every mth. Gets my products paid for. I'm Happy. Their are Melaleuca people making BIG Money from over $200,000 a month to $20 a month and lots of it. But, Here I am looking into Arbonne, thinking it is just like melaleuca but has the fun of the cosmetics that I enjoyed with my first mlm. without the inventory.
Well, this new system seems to encourage buying $$$$$$$$$$$ 1,000 or more to start and to duplicate yourself. I am not willing to do that, I don't see the positive in having people put inventory on a credit card and sell a dream for big $$$$.
I have been researching this for a month now, I am tempted to go with Pampered chef, and you know why. THEY Actually sell their products to the end consumer, no secret ordering society, Just plain old fashioned hard work, time, and sales. Everyone buying a product... NOT just mlm
I know that national guy is going to jump on the band wagon with this post. I have to say though being a pink caddy driver, I relate to the white mercedes drivers out there. When your in it, you will die defending it.
It is sad, thank God for www.thepinkingshears.com
Joan,
ps
any advice from an honest opinion relating to a at home business is welcome from me.

Paul
What is your e-mail addresss? I am curious!

I am truly blessed that the gift of Arbonne was given to me. It has changed my life forever. The friends I have made as a result of this journey will be forever and I am so excited about all of the new friendships I will make in the future that I never would have without Arbonne.
A wise person once said, "It's not about you!" It is about helping others achieve their dreams. By helping others reach their goals, you in turn will without a doubt achieve yours. I am so proud to be part of such a wonderful organization; I cannot express how my life has turned around.

As far as it being hard work. Heck yea. It is not going to be handing to you as most people want or think it will. You have to sacrifice in the beginning to have the rewards in the end.

All of the reason one does not want to do Arbonne (ie not enough time, not enough money etc.) are the EXACT reasons you should do it. All of that will never change. Look at your life 5 years ago. If it has not changed much chances are in 5 more it wont either. You have to do something different in order to yield a different result.

I will see all of Arbonne Consultant at the top. Remember you only fail if you quit.

Much Love!

tarantipton@yahoo.com

Just a quick note of correction. Arbonne does NOT claim their products to be all natural. They are botanical based & take the best of science & nature to create their products.

Lola: I'm not sure--I think they only ship to the US and Canada. But as for eeking out a living--eek is the operative word here. If you need to make any amount of money in a short period, go with another direct sales party. Unless you can get plenty of people to buy at the Arbonne retail price (you know, like $45 plus tax, and shipping and handling for a ounce and a half of day cream) you will only make 4% on what you sell until you have sold $6000 of product in a two month peiod. Oh, and $1000 of that has to be stuff you buy personally, and you do not get any commission on what you buy yourself until you have sold your $6000 of product in a two month period. Tempted yet?

I have been reviewing a lot of the posts and it is interesting hearing the arguments that people have about Arbonne and the whole MLM thing. funny thing is all it is doing business by word of mouth. this is still the most effective way to do business.
Secondly, whenever you get a quality product combined as a consumable good... that is a winner... You dont worry about costs. If people believe in you and believe in a product... Cost is not that big of a deal when you compare the benefits. That is what business is all about. Why do you eat at a restraunt that a friend tells you about... YOu did the same thing in Network marketing except that restraunt doesn't give you a check for sending someone to their place. People dont realize that the ones who make the big money... guess what . they put in the time til they get to a point where the residual income takes care of them.. Why do you think your insurance agent and finacial planner have such great lives... Same concept... You have to look at it from a business prospective but keep your people first. These people who earn the Mercedes did so with the same work ethic as people who make the big dollers in the corporate world... The thing is you get back what you put into it.. It is a true measure of how hard you work.
The people at the top.. well if you want to be a person at the top.. try harder, make goals, don't accept not reaching those goals and you will be sitting at the top too...

I'm currently a Pharmaceutical Rep. planning to become an Arbonne Consultant. I believe in the MLM business model but plan to prospect businesses and not have many parties. I would be going to doctors offices, spas, gyms, and prospecting some friends, but defintely not doing many parties...maybe an openhouse quarterly. My objective would be to to grow my business by selling maybe $1,500 monthly, adding 1-2 retail businesses and 1-2 consultants per month initally. I would like to hear from a veteran Arbonne person if this is a viable business plan. I plan to purchase 3 of the RE9 systems initally to sample prospective clients and would like to know what other products I should purchase.

I love the Arbonne products also. They have worked well on my complexionl I would like to buy them ONLY WHEN AND IF I can afford them!!! Don't like the groups' pushy attitude either. It is a big turnoff. Avon is what I can afford at the moment. The Alpha-Hydroxy is what works I think in most of these skin care products. I run from Arbonne consultants which is shame when it could be an otherwise good business like Avon.

Wow, was I ever surprised and excited to find all of this over Arbonne. I respect everyones right to share how they feel regarding Arbonne, positive or negative. That is the the beauty of our freedom of expresssion. So here is mine...
I just recently got involved with Arbonne, after being approached by three very good friends, that are in three completely different circles of friends. These are peopl that I love and trust, and are wildly successful with their Arbonne businesses. I am not going to even share what levels they are at, how much they are making or whether any of them, have a white Mercedes, because that is not whats important here. What is important that they are genuinely enthusiastic about a line of products that they share and educate their families and friends on. I have never at any time felt pressured to get involved with this business! However I have decided to do so based solely on the results I have experienced using Arbonne products. It is unfortunate that some of you have witnessed pushy and agressive Arbonne consultants. They very may well be motivated only by money, and that is too bad. The friends that I have that are involved with Arbonne and the other wonderful people I have met, are doing this out of enthusiasm for the product, life, and ultimately financial freedom. Who can blame them for that? This is no different then the HUGE cosmetic companies that pay millions and millions of dollares to flood our tv's, computers, billboards, newspapers, magazines, make-up counters staffed with sales people, all promoting their products. I personally have not been alienated by these pushy Arbonne consultants that are out there. I believe they are out there. The odds are good considering the growth of the business.
My plan is simple.I love these products. I have used many of them, and have experienced results beyond comprehension I plan on sharing it and introducing it to my network of friends ans letting them decide if it's something they would like to use or get involved with. Then my job is done. I am anxiously awaiting my first large product order!
Arbonne products are not for everybody, however they are quality products that are specially formulated and formulated and made by quality indivuals. You pay for quality. If you want cheap, then you get cheap. Cheap speaks of quality. Everyone's priorites are different, and that is fine, but Arbonne's lines are justly priced. Especially the fact that you can get wholesale prices for a membership of $29 a year.
I couldn't be more excited about starting my Arbonne business and I am very optimistic about great things to come. Thank-you to Hilary, Jenny, and Martha for introducing me to Arbonne.

I just started with Arbonne because I love the product. I had been approached to sell Mary Kay but never got into their products. I absolutely love Arbonne though. If anybody in the Omaha/Council Bluffs area is interested, call me at 402-502-9017

Hey Joel - I commend you! I am an Area Manager, and I was almost setup to do the same thing... Now I won't. Thanks for letting us all know. I love the Arbonne company, the products, MLM and the people I meet daily. What's wrong with earning a free white mercedes and making over $10,000 per month because I believe in the product, told my friends about them and then they tried them and did the same thing. Simple system gets RESULTS! We all tell our friends about movies and/or eating establishments we like, but we don't get paid - i am glad I get paid to recommend this! Anyway, thanks for sharing, and I am glad you are telling us about this so we can all learn from it. Corp America is falling apart, and MLM is the next way to do business. Check back in 2010 when an estimated 50% of the homes in America will be involved in MLM of some sort.

God Bless!
Jennifer Jones
Texas Consultant

One more comment... if I may... to the more negative people on this site. :-) If you haven't "arrived" and aren't "owning your own business" making over $10,000 per month, able to make your own schedule and live the American dream yet... then you have no business putting down others who have. I have seen it with my own eyes... And that, my friends, is not a lie. I do take offense to these comments, but like water off a duck's back - or something I have learned in Arbonne - shrug it off... There are plenty of others out there who are hungry for a change and need something new in their lives - something to call their own. I wonder, do you have it all together? If this Arbonne company isn't the right way to earn a living - then, tell me - you who know it all, what is your perfect scenario? And tell me, how you have arrived and how you will make your million? And live a financially free life? Let the Arbonne thing go... We are moving and growing with or without you anyway. Your comments and your negativity will not stump our growth - we TRIPLED in 2005. :-)

Oh the possibilities and oh - the places we will go!!!!

Again, God Bless, and I hope you can come to know the positive side of Arbonne I have seen with my OWN EYES.

One more site debating the idea that MLMs are ahead of the marketing curve.

http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm

Corporate America is actually way past using MLM partly because of the very technology you are using right now.

Are Arbonne consultants required to pay for training?

Note to Pat - Arbonne offers online training, which is FREE to all consultants. Oftentimes, there are also local meetings that you can attend for training purposes. We don't charge for our meetings but I can't speak for the entire country. Feel free to email me at saint854@aol.com for more.

Hey if anyone wants an inexpensive alternative to those high priced sea salt scrubs or sugar scrubs Arbonne sells for about $24 to $26 a pop, here is a web site where you can easily make your own, add your own fragrances, ask the web site owner questions per email and save a whole lotta money!!!! They work great too as gifts or for just for personal use.

http://www.figandplum.com

I know people that have been in Arbonne for a while and they are making great money, but can someone PLEASE tell me how someone just getting into Arbonne can still make money?? Everyone I meet is already signed up... mainly just to get the discount. Thanks...

Hi all. I am new to Arbonne. The comments are interesting. I wanted to express a concern and see if anyone had any feedback. Several mentions of pyramid schemes have been made. According to my understanding, Arbonne is not set up as a pyramid scheme because actual product is sold. Therefore, it does not violate federal laws prohibiting such practice. However, I know that in New York State there is prohibition against chain marketing in the General Business Law. Has anyone made an inquiry or does anyone have information regarding state laws requirements for multilevel marketing and compensation companies? If so, if you can refer me to a place where the information is accessible, I would be happy. I myself will be researching this issue. Thanks.

I would like to say as a former Arbonne consultant myself that unfortunately Arbonne does put toooooo many restrictions on how you can market your business. I had a great upline but even the best upline can�t make a business work for you. I do know several people in which it has worked for them but it is not for everyone. For the people who want to use more creativity and freedom with a business Arbonne isn�t for you. Another reason I got out of the business was the product. I love how �they� say the skin care is �pure safe and beneficial� because sodium laureth sulfates are not pure safe and beneficial in fact they are composed of 4 known carcinogens, Formaldehyde, Dioxane, Ethylene Oxide, and Acetaldehyde. That doesn�t sound to great to me. But if you ask arbonne about it they say oh it comes from coconut. Yes it does start as coconut but it turns into a harmful chemical after they turn it into �sodium laureth sulfate� They also say they have to use paraben�s in their product so it doesn�t grow mold or yeast but the real truth is there are products out there that don�t �need� paraben�s to last. They say if it is less than 2% in concentration then its not bad for you but if all you use is Arbonne then the 1% they use in every product does add up to more than �2%� Im not here to bash Arbonne or the people involved in it cause I do think they have some good points to them. I chose to get out because I found a safer product and a more flexible company that allows me to sell �legally� on ebay if I want to. They also let me market how ever I want online and they don�t push the whole find ur friends and family bit. You can even retail the product to health food stores and beauty supply places. I am with you JOEL on the frustrations of a company being so worried about their name they don�t even allow you to market the way that is most comfortable with you. If anyone is interested In hearing more about my company check out my website. www.onegrp.com/?genuineorganics This company is the first company to have Certified Organic Skin care and Cosmetics to food standards. They are amazing and a great alternative to Arbonne for those of you who are over Arbonne. Email me for more info
candace

Ive read the majority of banter on this page. You are all right, some dont know how right they are. The fact is people selling Arbonne are making money ! But the percentage of all people investing in Arbonne and other MLM's making money is .1 %, the other 99.9% are loosing there money. These are facts and they are true for so many other MLM's. You can make great money, but you will be in the top .1% of players. Be proud if you are there or get there ! Did they divulge thee numbers at the parties ? Good Luck !

Does anyone know how much loss we can clain to the IRS for our new MLM business. I have invested plenty and made little???

oops my web address is
www.onegrp/?genuineorganics i forgot to put the? after the/ lol

Hi Pam,
My email is candycayne19@yahoo.com what is yours i can email you some information about the company. :)
candace

There are products out there that are better than Arbonne that do not use animal by-products, preservatives, botanically based, blah blah blah. One is called Boscia. Check them out.

someone tell me if the skin care really works!!!

I was introduced to Arbonne 10 days ago. I was given the NutriMinC RE9, 6-step kit, and I am NOT going to be giving it back!! The products have helped reduce the redness in my skin - it's so minimal now. No, it has not disappeared, but my overall skin tone is definitely improved!

And I promise this story to be true: My husband was on a 4 day business trip this week. He was staring at me earlier today, and asked, "Did you have one of those chemical peels done while I was away?" (My friend owns a medical spa & I mentioned the possibility of me doing the procedure to my husband a few weeks ago) I couldn't stop smiling...I love torturing him, so I said "yes" then "no" back n forth...

He knows a smidge about the Arbonne pitch(the business plan), but nothing in detail about the product.) I asked him why he thought I did anything to my skin, and he said it really looked different. He touched it and said it looked so clean and smooth. And it REALLY does, no joke!!

I finally told him it was the stuff his sister gave me to try and he agreed that the product seemed to work and that I should definitely look into this opportunity more...

...Which I intend to do. I enjoy reading the negative as well as the positive posts, although I am more confused than I'd like to be at this point.

Although I do have the proof that the product is all that it says it is, I still will research it some more before I decide whether or not I want to join Arbonne on a business level. It does help to read the success stories on the arbonne.com site, "Eye on Arbonne". There are many different types of people who are involved with this: from teachers to attorneys, to men and even a woman who worked for NASA (Julia Espey). Check it out...

http://www.radiantyou.myarbonne.com/arbonne/radiantyou.nsf/viewpage/1?Open&pagename;=T6body.htm

Even if I don't decide to become a consultant, I definitely will be using these products for years to come, as well as pass the name along to my friends and family!

Whether or not you become an Arbonne consultant, the RE9 pack does work. Many people have noticed my skin looking better. I have noticed others who use the RE9 skin looking more glowing. You have to keep buying it to look this good though. Many of us cannot afford to keep buying it so some of us will just have to go back to being ugly.

yes the products work but they are not the best out there. They do have chemicals in them and just because it works doesnt mean its good for you. Yes the product is better then 90% of the products out there but there are better. I wouldnt call them a waste of money but you can find better. I say this only from personal experience

OK Candace, clue me in on what are the better products. I want to know. For the money, I want the best.

candace,
I have read several of your posts, and I'm interested in what you have found to be the most successful with your business..I am an Arbonne consultant with an upline that isn't very helpful (not at all) so I'm doing it on my own. I am very determined to make it work, and I know it will. I'm just finding it hard to say the right words to my friends and family. How do you get business builders under you? Especially your friends (people you would love to work with?)
I am shy at times, and have a hard time convincing myself to go talk to my neighbors, my children's teachers, my children's friends parents...etc about this amazing product & company.
If you could give me some advice, that would be awesome !
staceyw@myarbonne.com
:)

LOL Chris you make a very good point...if the fda approves it then you know it cant be good since they mostly approve things that have been known to harm our bodies. They only tell us about it when its too late and people have died from the drugs or whatever. I dont want a product that has some strange technology that cant even be explained for side affects and what not.

Cathy,

What did your dermatologist say about the products? I am trying to decide if I want to become and Arbonne consulant as well.

Please forgive all the spelling errors on my previous post above. :) I haven't had my coffee yet!

Cathy,

What did your dermatologist say about the products? I am trying to decide if I want to become an Arbonne consultant as well.

Cathy,
You can buy certified organic product that are awesome that dont even cost as much as arbonne. And you dont have to buy them from a health food store. Your doctor will tell you its probably the best she/he has seen cause they dont deal with product (generally) that doesnt have any chemicals. Yes arbonne is better than most of the products out there but like i have said they arent the best. This business is almost impossible to do without your friends and family. Unless you just blurt out to everyone your an arbonne lady and do they wanna try it lol Arbonne doesnt allow you to market really any other way. They are very restrictive. That is why i got out of the business because they wont let you sell to retailers or market online or do hardly anything. Do you research before joining with your large investment. Yes you can use samples as the other lady said but the full product is a better testimonial. There are people who make it with arbonne and kudo's to them but i wouldnt jump into so fast without really researching it. Find out all the restrictions and make sure that you want to market only as arbonne allows...thats my advice..not that your asking but im giving :)

Missy. Cathy. Stacey, (and anyone else) asking for tips...
I have been with Arbonne for only 40 days, and cannot claim to be an expert, ok? (disclaimer over)

I am one of many starting up with out spending more than sign up fee. I wanted to get going once I experienced product difference personally, but could not afford to buy anything. So I did short demos and shows, earning them, not frontloading (racking up debt on credit.)

Giving credit where it is due here: I have an extremely supportive team. They do everyone's first few shows so we have success, and learn simultaneously. They supply or loan whatever is needed to get new consultants flying, that is exactly how it is going for me!

Some are/can afford to buy the RE9 kits, great for them. But NOT with intention of expecting others do the same~ We learn to do "drops" on potential clients. Basically anyone you trust to return product back..gets to try product with no strings attached. You firm a date to pick it up in three days, asking pertinent questions, and showing what deals you can offer. This is effective, but you do not have to blast your budget to do that! Just be patient.
If you start on a shoestring, you have to be doing activities. (My team suggests 10 per month.)
My first month's check paid off my 166 for RE9 wholesale. Zero balance.

So ..After hosting two parties of my own, earning products, some free and some 100/20 (80% off 100.00 retail price products) I have now just enough product and confidence, to do this myself. Without buying my way in

Whatever you are comfortable doing, do THAT. Whether hitting streets looking for clients, webbing out doing product demos at homes, drops with RE9 (or just the body duo set you earn for 20.00 is extremely effective! Just do what fits for you. All startup business feels uphill.
Government allows leniency taxwise, for FIVE years. Most new small business owners need EVERY day of that to get their noses out of water. I had to prove I would NOT spend to save, you know?

Build a team that works with one another. I have read posts that show there may be some really wrong reps. That is NOT how Arbonne intends, trains, and is not how any team I have seen behaves, just so you know. In two weeks, I had three firm business builders, one of which is stranded in Florida with no team to be found, just lots of business. I am doing all I can to build her long distance..it is working!
I don't know where you are, but if I can help you get going, feel confident, and try ideas, it was worth weeding through the gunfire above. OF course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and we all have different stories to tell.
For me ~being new, I love that I will close this, my second month,achieving District Manager, making a part time check that exceeded any other so far~ and I'm receiving bonus product for 20% of cost, using low cost/free business aids or making copies~ and sharing the hope with others.

I have always hated anything resembling networking. Until now~ because WHAT these products were made of, and how good my company is to me and my clients.
No one has to alienate anyone, and force family and friends to give you mileage. If they aren't interested, move on. Those posts arent accurate, all the ENVP's teach for us to not convice others, but to present product.
It really speaks for itself.
Download the free pdf files, Eye on Arbonnes, teaching tips on Arbonne Presentations, or email me. Its all free. Don't spend $ or time creating online customers. It is for maintenance of previous clients, when money affords. Don't spend ahead unless you have an activity that WILL replace or exceed money spent. I hope this is not overwhelming. Not looking for other big embellished replies, just wanting to give my coworkers who asked..a leg up. Thank you for allowing that, Joel.
AB

Great blog. For anyone really looking to get into a network marketing business, keep your emotions out of the process and stay with facts. You need real and verifiable information to make a proper business evaluation, so ask those seeking to sponsor you to produce their tax return. I'd also ask for the returns from their top 5 front line distributers as well. Copies of bonus checks do not show the whole picture. Tax returns are best because they incorporate a final annual net figure. Also, since no one is interested in paying more taxes than necessary, there is no incentive to inflate income claims. This certainly won't be the case when they're trying to recruit you.

Bottom line: if you like a product and want to sell a few items to friends and family on a part time basis, you can reasonably expect to make an extra $100 or so each month, depending on how motivated you are. The odds of making a consistent net income of even a paltry $30,000 per year are strongly stacked against you. Will you find exceptions? Certainly. But before you jump at an opportunity to strike it rich with this or any other MLM, please do your due diligence and focus on real numbers of the typical person. If you really want an equivalent chance at getting rich, just buy a lottery ticket for a dollar. Your odds of success there are just about the same.

ARBONNE is a BIG SCAM . . . the consultant I have been dealing with . . . ha that is comical . . . dealing with, she has called once and had her significant other respond the other times . . . was a joke. Her customer service skills are very lacking and it has now turned me off to the product. I am now telling everyone I can NOT TO BUY ARBONNE!

They refuse to answer questions on the 800 line, and the emails they send, no mind who you sent them to, are basic form emails that they send to everyone . . . STATING, ARBONNE is not responsible for anything because they are simply the ?supplier,? the consultants are who you are to work with. I have sent emails and placed calls daily to get information and it has gone nowhere! For three months, I have been living a nightmare trying to get my money back. The consultant refuses to give any information on who is in her upline so I did not know who to contact that way, so I was very happy to know that my emails I sent in finally made it to her upline, and she is now scrambling to get things on track . . . 2 months too late if you ask me, but at least she has been called out on this.

STAY AWAY FROM ARBONNE . . . the product is too expensive, and the company takes NO RESPONSIBILITY for ANYTHING!

This is for "turnedoff" I am with a company called ONE Group which stands for organic and natural enterprise group. The products are certified organic to food grade standards...which means that the usda has certified them as well and they are even edible...i dont know how good they would taste eating a shampoo lol but it wont hurt you :) This company is amazing and allows you to market online almost anyway you choose. You do not even have to touch your warm market because they give you the option to sell it so many different ways. One being to retailers another as a fundraiser, health and beauty professionals can sell it. If you wanted you could do parties...thats not my thing but some people love to do them. If you want to know more email me. Thanks for inquiring...anyone else wanting to know more can email me as well. candycaynt19@yahoo.com check out my website as well...which ONE Group gives you
www.onegrp.com/?genuineorganics

My wife and I recently became Arbonne consultants. We liked the idea of becomming business builders in this, and also that you can sell the product and make upto a 35% profit. Today we were on ebay and found 2700 Arbonne products listed for sale. Not only that, but the products were selling for around 50% of the retail price! This suggests that those people are selling at a loss, and we can only think that they have not been able to sell the product, and to save on their investment have decided to sell at a loss. We would now have to tell our friends and family that want to just buy the product to get it on ebay because they can get it cheaper there than from us. Any person who does a search on Arbonne can immediatley go to ebay and find products considerabily discounted. This makes us feel that we are not getting such a great deal from Arbonne, and also want to know from one of their nvp's or rvp's if anything is being done about it. It can't be good for business if the product you are trying to sell can be bought else where for half the price. Hell I'd buy it there myself. Has anyone got views on this? We are concerned that if the number of people dropping out of Arbonne is too great then the market could become flooded by cheaper Arbonne products, making it much more difficult for us to sell and be sucessful.

Hi this is for paddyo, in response to the discounted Ebay products. Candace is correct in that usually ex-consultants are using ebay to "dump" their products. While at first glimpse it seems to be a better deal, to purchase the products via ebay, you must realize that with hosting benefits and other rewards you can recieve your products from Arbonne at up to 80% discount, so really not a better deal. I hope you don't let these posts discourage your endeavour with Arbonne. Just like any other company it is subject to fault, they are after all, only human. I have never found them to be deceiving. In my time with Arbonne I find them their customer service no different than a busy retail outlet, they get to you when they can. You can't ask for more. However, what is different is that you have several options before ever having to call Arbonne directly. Most questions could be answered via interent if not through your upline that what they're there for. I hope this helps, and good luck!

I am also considering becoming a consultant. There are many comments about having a good "upline". My potential upline is someone that made DM in 8 months and has her white Mercedes blah blah blah. So I can see on the surface that she has been successful (she quit her fulltime job and now does Arbonne fulltime). Her presentation at the party I attended was good - but not REALLY good. If I do this I want to do it for the right reasons (have fun, make a decent income) and ensure I take the high road and ethical road in everything that I do. Can anyone tell me what types of questions I should be asking of my potential upline to see if she is the right leader for me? And if she is just an OK upline, and I am a great consultant will that work out - or should I seek out the "perfect" upline? Thanks from up North (Canada!)

I think people fail to realize some things.

First of all, network marketing is a business, not a get-rich-quick scheme. I have a buddy who was a baggage handler at an airport and now making ganster money with Arbonne, but he worked hard for it. Yes, it will make you money if you work for it. It bugs me when people think network marketing is a scam when they invested some money and it didn't magically make them rich overnight, especially when they did no marketing.

Selling is NOT for everyone. I have the personality to do it. My wife doesn't, and she wouldn't be caught dead selling it. I respect her for that. If you don't have an outgoing personality, Arbonne is not for you.

wow WHAT AN EYE OPENER!!!
tgif ebay

you HAVE TO PERSONALLY BUY $1000 worth of merchandise. Personal Retail Volume (PRV)is $1000 during your district manager "qualification" period. And if you do not sell either $6000 in 2 months or $7500 in three months, your $1000 PRV was for nothing and you have to start all over again, including your $1000 PRV. Anyone unclear on this ought to read the consultant handbook. The clock is ticking on your sales volume total. And yes, you can buy all this stuff on EBAY for 1/2 price or less. Even if you consider that someone who buys $250 in Arbonne retail gets a free product, they still get off cheaper buying an EBAY RE9 set for $130 + 9.95 shipping and handling

Oh, and one more correction. A $250 order gets you more product at 80% off - $100 of extra product for only $20. A $100 order gets you the free product in the month you open your own account.

Actually, it takes 4-6 weeks, which is not uncommon when returning product ordered over the internet or t.v. You have to pay to ship it back to Arbonne by whatever means you decide to ship it, but they don't take away more money for shipping. You just don't get your shipping cost back from when you purchaed the product. Not sure what you are talking about there. And not all ebay accounts have a return policy.

Sam, I am sorry for your experience, I really am. But, I don't think it is fair to call it a scam, since I have also had to send back product and my experience was totally different. I would never hold back a return or put someone on a guilt trip b/c the order was going to qualify me. Please don't generalize every consultant.

Ok, I've read the pros and cons and I'm confused. I've just heard of Arbonne a week ago. I have already gone to a reception last night where they presented three Mercedes to three women. Next Thursday is the meeting which I would like to attend. I am not sure what to do. I like what I hear about the money making, which is why I would get in it. I know it will be hard but again if you want to make money you have to work hard, which I don't mind, I just want to make sure it's true what they say. The reception from last night, all the women that spoke mentioned that they were in Arbonne for 15months, one said 10 months, one said she made regional in 90 days. How do these women move up soooo fast? I don't know the details about what we need to do to win a Mercedes, that's why I plan on attending a mtg. this Thursday (March 30th). Can anyone give me advice? Or anyone w/experience please tell me all I should know. I'd appreciate it!

Martha, One more thing to add - the old fasion way of doing arbonne will get you to RVP (car) in about 2-5 years. Much longer than 9-15 months as some, but no feelings being hurt along the way and people going into debt for "the dream." You are also not giving up your commission to every single person you meet either, so you are still making money as long as you sell product.

Thanks Barbara for your response, one thing that I will focus on if I decide to join will be recruiting. Ok, another question, the lady that introduced me to Arbonne said she paid 800.00 dollars to get into the business and she said that that was the minimum to join. She bought 4 kits (the aging one). Now I've been researching and nowhere have I read anything about having to spend 800.00 dollars to get started. I have read that you can purchase a kit for 350.00 for a value of (750.00). What's the deal there, is that true? I mean was this lady told right? Or am I missing something because I have looked all over the Arbonne website and have researched it. Or is that what that 1000.00 is? Oh, you know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe, like you say, that's the way they make their money because they tell the new comers that they have to spend 800.00. Hmmmm.. Now I'm getting it, is that right?

Doesn't sound like Imn the only one. AND an FYI....it is Arbonne who is to blame too. THEY REFUSE to admit when they are wrong and do the right thing!

ARBONNE TO ME IS A SCAM. WHy else would they decide to be so untruthful when returning money. Why else would they refuse to contact me back when I contact them daily. They have no ethics when it comes to doing things that shouldbe done. It is very disturbing!

Sam,
Are you doing any other business now? Andrea, if you dont know anyone in your area and feel arbonne might be too hard to market email me and i will tell you about a business that doesnt require you to touch your warm market. They give you much better options. If anyone wants an alternative to the traditional way of marketing such as find your friends and family let me know thanks
Candace
www.onegrp.com/?genuineorganics

Andrea, Ok, I just wanted to know where you lived. I figured if you lived close maybe we can attend the mtg. together since you were looking for people. Unfortunately you're out of my reach. I will attend a mtg. on Thursday and if I can help you in any way, I will.

Thanks Martha. Our meeting is the first Tuesday of the month...I can't wait to go and learn more!

Andrea ~

The $700 for $350 you were talking about is called the RSVP. It is not on the Arbonne site because it's a special that you get in your first two months as a consultant. You can spent $350 to get $700 worth of product. However, it's not that great of a deal. I did it, not understanding everything. Now I tell my consultants and wholesale buyers that they're a lot better off just buying $500 retail and then using their $200 for $40. They are still getting $700 worth of product for only about $15 more than the RSVP. The reason the $15 is worth paying? Because with the RSVP, you only get $350 counted toward your volume. You end up losing $150 of volume with the RSVP. Unfortunately, I didn't "get" that until after I had already done my RSVP. Kind of like getting the "Eureka" moment of understanding the equation AFTER failing the algebra test, you know? Ha ha!

I would like to point out to the anti-Arbonners on the board that the owner of this site is STILL an Arbonne consultant. In fact, on his "greatest hits" page he says, "I NEVER said Arbonne was a bad company. In fact, I am still a consultant if anyone would like to sign up." Keep that in mind...

I love my Arbonne business and would be happy to answer any questions that anyone might have for me. Feel free to visit my site or email me directly.

Fascinating indeed to read all this. I actually stumbled upon it while researching Mannatech that my brother and SIL are now involved in (yes another MLM scheme) but since I am SURROUNDED by Arbonners at church too, I was interested to read it all.

Yes at least 3 white mercedes awarded to church members already.

I personally think the MLM model is unethical and I wouldn't touch ANY product (good or not) with a barge pole that involves MLM marketing.

Jacking up the prices so that each person on the upline gets a piece of the pie - it's shameful!

Nice Try Julie, didn't convince me even an iota....

IF (and I say if since I make my own clothes and so it doesn't apply anyway) I buy a shirt from Foleys (never heard of it) a part of what I pay for that shirt does NOT then trickle back to the worker in Taiwan that put it together.

But you are correct, quote "It just goes to show you that, with some people, having just a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Please do get all the facts before you form an opinion."

yep that pretty much comes right back at you.

Alice

Ok, Barbara or anyone else in Arbonne that can give me their advice. (It's ok if I get more than one reply). I have another question for you. Let's say I get up to Regional, or any of the steps. Do I have to make the monthly gross volume EVERY month? If so, what happens if I don't make it one month, or two? For example, what if I'm regional and I don't make the amount that they require? Do they take the car away? Also, I'm assuming the car belongs to the company (Arbonne) right? As long as I'm in Arbonne I keep the car. Right? Also, when you buy a RSVP when you start in the business, does that go towards your mgv? Ok, here's another thing that I've been thinking about, I like the whole business thing. But what worries me, is let's say I recruit 4 people, and those 4 recruit 4 people each and so forth. What if somewhere down the line, it just stops and no one is able to recruit, what happens then? That's what scares me. Where do I go from there? Do I just rely on sales? Someone please give me advise. Thanks and I'd appreciate it.

Martha,

Arbonne has a wonderful system for rewarding your hard work, even if you have an off month. Once you promote up, you get a building period. For example, when you promote to District Manager, you get a 2 month building period where all of your volume (including your central district) gets put into a performance account. Once the two months are over, if you fall below the $2500 sales volume maintanence(again this is your sales plus anyone in your downline who is not a Disctrict Manager also), the remainder would be taken from your performance account. Also, when you promote out someone to the same level as you, you get another 2 month building period to build up your performance account. So, if you are a Disctrict Manager, and you promote out another Disctrict manager, you only get to count $650 a month from their sales, but you get a 2 month building period. You still get your commission on all their sales though. That way, people can't sit back, do nothing, and promote from the work of their downline. But, once you promote to Area, you then regain all the volume of all your disctrict managers. It goes on with each level. So, once you reach Regional, it is the same. You get building periods. That is why it is so important to grow your business strong. You have to depend on sales. Selling product is what promotes you. I view the whole buy 4 sets, and have 4 buy 4 and so on as a deck of cards. Like you said, if it stops, you don't have the huge volume anymore pushing you up. You need to teach your downline how to SELL, not just recruit. You need to service your customers and wholesale buyers so they are repeat orders. It drives me crazy that so many consultants are investing crazy money, but are not being trained in any of our products or our business. They are sent out right away to hunt down their 4 to invest $2k. They know nothing about our other 350 products, the pay compensation, or what arbonne really stands for. This, to me, is dangerous and I can't imagine a business being built this way staying strong forever. My nation uses this approach, and several consultants are know going back to parties b/c they are tired of worrying about volume to keep their title. The old fashioned way of building slowly will build a strong foundation. If you are out there sharing the products and mentioning the business (not pressuring people into the business), you will have success. It takes effort and work. As far as the car, you earn a bonus once you reach Regional to make the car payment. Once the car is paid off, it is yours, whether you stay with arbonne or not. You have worked very hard for it, so you deserve to own it. I have read several Eye on Arbonne stories of RVPs and NVPs who had to quit the business due to illness, but still collected a check every month b/c of all the work that had put into building their business. Yes, they may have fallen from RVP to Area manager, but at Area you are still making great money. One in particular took a year off b/c of cancer. She depended on her check coming in every month.

I hope this all makes sense. Where is your sponsor Martha? She should be explaining all of this to you in detail, especially if she is expecting you to invest money in buying 4 re9 sets! Feel free to email me if you have any more questions. I know it can be a bit confusing at first. We can even talk over the phone. Sometimes it is nice to get an outside opinion from someone who will not benefit from your investment.
Barbara

Can anyone here with arbonne help me return products? When my consultant was there to try to get me in the business, she was calling me every day. Now that the products are making me break out, and I want to return them, I can't get in touch with here. And there is nothing on their site about returns.

What is their return policy and how can I obtain a refund? I do recall my (now missing) representative telling me that they had a very liberal return policy.

Barbara ~

AWESOME job explaining how things work! I know you must be a wonderful sponsor!

Julie

Awww, thanks Julie! Right back at ya'!

No, that is not true. It happens all the time. People work hard, and bypass their sponsoring consultant. I passed the girl who sponsored me, and now she will only make a small profit off the sales under my i.d., but nothing from those sponsored under me. The sponsoring consultant still makes a little profit, but far less than if she was in a higher position and working her business. It is set up so that people cannot sit back, do barely nothing, and still make tons of money off the people working hard below them. I still don't see the big deal in making a profit off sales of someone who you trained, loaned product to to get them started, and spent hours helping them start there business. All of my consultants are glad I am getting reimbursed for the time I have taken to help them start there business. If it is wrong to make money off of someone working for you, I better let the attorney I used to work for know that he is involved in a pyramid!

Yikes! Notes - I'll need to be extra careful! ;) Julie, I have resigned myself to the fact that those that hate network marketing companies will probably never change there opinion. Most had a bad experience, a greedy sponsor, or just hate everything. I am here to help those that are truly looking into the opportunity. Keep up the good work, Julie!

I'm not real sure what all this crap is on here I read a couple of emails and that is all I needed.I'm sure there are some Arbonne consultants out there that is not helping there team.That is that persons own fault there is plenty of training and that is not the comp. procedure.You do need to invest in a few kits.You do not have to invest alot!!!!I have beed in Arbonne just since Dec.I am already an Area Manager.I have two building months I could est back and do absolutly nothing for two months and not get domoted.But that is not how I got to Area Manager.I wanted to do this as a buisness I am doing this as a buisness the great products sell there selves.If you can't do this buisness with the "no party" success plan.I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD DO A NORMAL 8 TO 5 JOB.

Arbonne is a cult. And Dave way up at the top must be marketing director. All you people saying you make $10,000 per month selling this over priced crap are liars and you know it. Shame on you.

I need to know the ingredients in NutriMinC

It is funny that most of the time, the name calling comes from those against arbonne. This is the second site that you have tried to insult me, mispell my name on purpose I am sure, w/o having never met me or spoken with me. Why can't you leave the name calling behind, and stick to the facts? Maybe if you call people stupid and brainwashed enough, others will start to believe you. 95% of my customers are end consumers. They buy a product, most of the time at a discount, and use the product. The other 5% are consumers who are selling product also to make a profit. Again, the lab question. We can go round and round. Yes, arbonne has a team of scientist in Sion. No, there is not a huge building with the name Arbonne slapped on the outside. They rent a lab that is used for many different purposes, other than arbonne. My very good friend has been there IN PERSON. Say whatever you want.

Right now on ebay, there are folks unloading kits at $50.

Thats a heck of a lot better than what I just worked out..

Not to mention a sign that there are some people pretty desperate to unload this stuf...

I said bring facts; well, at least try to get them correct.
Every $250 retail order ($162.50 cost w/ the $29 one time membership fee) earns you the choice to buy $100 in additional product for $20. This is ANYTIME you place a $250 retail order all year long.
Your discount is 35%, so an RE9 retails at $266, but your cost is $172.50, plus you qualify to buy $100 worth of product for $20.
The free product valued at $40???? Well, I think you are talking about the free product you can choose once you accumulate a $100 order in your start month. It is any one free product of choice. Most people pick the RE9 night cream which retails at $72.
The RSVP ($700 worth of product for $350 cost) is available in your sign up month, and the following month. So, yes, that is a 50% savings.

So, what is so bad about these offers? No one is forced to buy them.

Again, they are in Switzerland. Call it marketing to paint a pretty picture? I don't really care. There are scientists in Switzerland working on formulations for arbonne products. Take any course in marketing and they show you how to be more appealing. Some may call in lying, others call it common sense. Like I already said, my friend has physically been there. If your issue with arbonne is the way they promote the AIRD in Sion Switzerland, fine. You have every right to that opinion. But don't give out incorrect information about other aspects of arbonne when you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am curious about the training Arbonne reps receive. I have been approached now by two friends to join their team. They both think I will be an asset because I am a licensed make-up artist and have extensive training. My problem so far with the product is that most of the people I talk to selling the product know next to nothing about the actual product. Both of my friends who want me to join gave me samples and a kit, telling me about how the product is "all-natural" and various other things that when I looked at the ingredient list found to be untrue. I am not against unnatural products so this wasn't really a selling point for me, but it does concern me that they are selling a product based on untruths, especially as a cosmetologist. My main question is if there is any product training that goes into becoming a rep, or can anyone pay $29 and sell this with no product knowledge? Does the company require you to complete some kind of product knowledge test as other cosmetic companies in department stores do, or are my friends just neglect in their duties to the product knowledge? They referred me to the website, where it was impossible for me to find a list of ingredients. I emailed them and was told I would receive a response in 24 hours about the ingredients and haven't heard anything in 4 days. This does not inspire my confidence in this company or its products. Why would they want people to sell their products with false claims or fill the country with uneducated representatives? It seems counterproductive. From reading this blog, I understand there is an "Arbonne University" - but do people graduate from this or are they required to "attend"? Please respond, Arbonne reps, so I can understand further about this product. Thanks.

It's too bad, Nina, that your friends have not taken the time to learn about what it is they are selling - there are plenty of sources of information at their disposal - they have not taken advantage of it - all the members of my team have 'graduated' from Arbonne University - which means you have taken the courses and have passed the tests - similar to what drug reps go through at pharma companies (yes, used to work at one) the only difference is that you don't have to pass in order to be able to represent it - it is all online - so if you do not take the time to invest in your own understanding of the products it makes the overall company look bad - It's really too bad - perhaps their sponsors have not made it clear how important it is to listen to all of the available information online - there is a whole product knowledge set - which is also available as a module on Arbonne University - If you don't worry so much about the REsults approach and just approach this as a business - selling products to consumers - it's much more positive than pushing the big money investments on people. Personally, I like to share great products that I have found to work - better then anything else I have tried. The business is not for everyone and the products are not for everyone ~ it is more important to educate yourself so that you can help others make educated decisions about the products. Touting them as 'all natural' is not something Arbonne endorses, and they would know that if they had listened to anything regarding product knowledge!

Michelle, I was responding to Bunsens errors. Sorry I didn't include tax and shipping. Usually people know that this is added to the retail cost, but I shouldn't assume that. I could see how it comes across sneaky. I did say this is offered all year long. I should have also stated about the renewal, but that has been discussed before. From now on, I will restate every detail in every post. I have never argued that you can buy the products for cheaper on Ebay. If that is what you want, go right ahead. I have bought several things off of ebay, but realizing I am taking a chance. I don't know if I said it here, but I had a lady contact me a couple months ago b/c she had bought an RE9 set off of ebay, and it was old. She wanted to know if there was anything I could do for her. There wasn't. So, for her, it was a waste of money.

Nina, it sounds like your friends have been duped into this new trend trying to reach the top quickly. It is sad, but true, that many consultants are only focusing on recruiting, and teaching the new recruits how to recruit. They are leaving behind the foundation of our business, the products. There is plenty of FREE product knowledge information offered to consultants under the consultant website. Arbonne University has courses taken on line talking about all aspects from the products to sponsoring and building a business. The right focus is placed on each area. CDs, audios and brochures can be purchased for cheap to listen to and also learn. What is happening is people are recruited to purchase a big inventory, and then pushed out the door to find their 4 to purchase a big inventory. They know nothing about our products, and tell wrong information - all natural. This is what has burned so many people and giving Arbonne a bad name.
That is the chance taken with network marketing. It is up to the individual, and an ethical sponsor, to make sure the person is educated. They should know that product ingredient information is not available to anyone. It has to be obtained through a consultant. I don't know why. What you need to do is have them log on for you, and you can see every single ingredient in every single product.

Carrie - I can't believe your friend has let "the dream" do this much damage. Shame on her sponsor for taking advantage of her. You need to shake her and bring her back down to earth.

Hmmm, I thought I was being paid to sell product. I think it is so interesting the things that are said about me by people who have never met me. Enough said there.

For those seriously looking into the opportunity, do your homework. Realize that it IS NOT a get rich quick scheme. It takes work and dedication. Do not alienate your friends and family by bugging them. Realize that it is a business to sell a product and do that ethically. Do not paint a pretty picture of cars and vacations. Talk about the products. Along the way, you will find people that would like to sell the product too. There is nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral about making a commission off of their sales, no matter how many times you are called a liar or brainwashed.
I don't think I am creating "hype." I am answering questions honestly w/o stooping to namecalling. Already by posting here, I have had numerous people contact me asking me questions about joining. I feel I have been able to give them an honest opinion set aside from the "you'll be rich!" hype they are hearing from their possible sponsor. It has been worth my character being questioned (still unbelievable to me) to help these few. Can you believe it - I actually played a small part in someone figuring out Arbonne was NOT for them. I better go back and take a refresher course in brainwashing; I am losing my touch.
Again, my email is bbrown1226@wowway.com. Please, only nice people.

I just joined Arbonne about 3 weeks ago and things are great! Thank you Barbara & Dave for being honest and realistic. Congrats on the sucess There is really no way to educate "closed-minded" people that are set in their ways so I wouldn't waste anymore of your time...let's go introduce more people to this wonderful business!

I am not jumping on anyone. Everyone has a right to their opinion. But I am tired of the childish games. I HAVE been called a liar, a brainwasher, and now you are assuming everyone in Arbonne has little education and is unsuccessful. I just don't want people personally emailing me that is going to insult me. That is what I consider as "not nice." Here is the difference: People like you, Laura, feel they need to insult the person to get your point across. It is pretty amazing to me. I have been debating on several boards, and it always comes down to the name calling. Your goal to educate people against Arbonne will work so much better if you keep YOUR emotion out of it and stick to the facts.

you caught me here Barbara! what a huge finding! A typo! you must be really sharp...
btw, I did stick to the fact, Barbara, you're just probably lucking education to read them. You apparently have no idea about statistics nor can you see what pyramid scheme is about. Ponzi scheme probably flew over your head. I named other facts as well in my prev. emails such as Arbonne is not pushing the product but recruiting more consultants which is a pyramid. Even though it's all stated over and over, you ignore it because you can't even produce a decent argument rather than "not nice people", "closed-minded", "set in their ways".. .Sad...

Barbara, you apparently are not able to review fact presented to you. I stated in my earlier email to which I again referred in the latest one that even on their website the first thing they promote is not the product but how to make a quick buck by recruiting people. I guess that again went over your head. So why don't you:
1. launch a browser
2. type in www.arbonne.com
3. look at the page
What do you see, Barbara?

Let me tell you that the following are the titles in huge lettering:
1. Journey To the Top,All Decked out
2. Now it's the part to be a part of Arbonne
3. Arbonne success stories
4. Get motivated
5. On line consultant registration
6. The Stage is Set to act now!
So Barbara, for any normal company that sells a PRODUCT there would be PRODUCT specials, PRODUCT info, etc. On Arbonne website the key is on getting more CONSULTANTS, i. e more people into the pyramid. I don't know how to explain it more explicitly, if you still don't get it and say it's not the fact, I don't know what is.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I can tell you have a very limited education from how you perceive and present information. I can also tell that you had very low paid jobs before Arbonne and probably demanding bosses. People like you are God's gift from heaven for Arbonne. Their top doesn't even need to do any masking of the pyramid scheme, people like you, who are not able to grasp things even though they're repeated over and over to you, will do all the necessary "motivational" talk. And I'm not even sure that you're successful, you must be at the bottom of the pyramid judging by your defensiveness. You must be what they call a AM or DM max.

Hello all! I've spent the last couple of days reading from beginning to end of this blog, trying to see if Network marketing is all a hoax or not. I do Pampered Chef currently, which pays well if you can get the parties/orders. It's a lot of work lugging all the stuff you own to every party, then cleaning it all up when you're done. Someone approached me with an Arbonne sample kit, so I thought I'd look into the business. It seems the same rule applies to all network businesses...it depends on your demographics, it really does. If I can't get people to host a cooking show when EVERYBODY needs to eat, how am I going to get the same folks to buy relatively expensive skin care products? I was a manager at Bath and Body Works, so I know the Arbonne prices are comparable and sometimes lower and just as high quality as the competition, but if you don't know enough people who have the expendable income for such luxuries, how can you break into the market? I'm a stay-at-home mom who just wants to make a little extra money without all the fuss of the parties, and be doing something fun that I believe in at the same time. I really liked the Bath and Body Works products, and believed in them, just as I'm sure I would with Arbonne. But really, there seems to be a lot of positive talk without any readily available info on how to actually make Arbonne work for folks who don't have a big enough "warm" market with the money. I have two girls, 3 and 2 years old. Not a lot of time to go door knocking or phone calling. Please give some real info to help me make my decision! Thanks...I've enjoyed reading the posts.

Wow, Laura, you are really stooping low. I could have went very far in my career before children, but instead chose to stay home w/ my beautiful daughters and travel the world with my military husband. I still can't believe you would insult anyones intelligence because they happen to like a skincare product and decided to sell it. I didn't realize you wanted me to explain every single detail and motive of the website. There is PLENTY of product information available on the website. It is a network marketing company. Of course, they are going to try to grab interest to be a part of it. So what! I am done with your insults and ignorance.

Righteousbabe, you do not need to spend anymore money. You are right. Use the products, have a passion for the products, and start from there. All a larger investment will do is cause financial stress for you, and boost your uplines volume. You need to tell them that this is all you can do. If they are not going to support you, you seriously need to rethink this. Have you already signed under them? If so, they still are obligated to help you start your business, no matter how much product you buy.

Lisa, it, of course, is much easier to start if you know people willing to try the products. Arbonne has wonderful products. But, w/o a market to sell to, you will not see income. I moved to a brand new area last year and I am also a stay at home mom. I have gotten out and established relationships first. I let Arbonne come up naturally, instead of being forced. People comment on my skin and I tell them what I use. It is all what you put into it. You can't make money by signing up and sitting at home waiting for people to come to you. I have been involved in several fundraiser events and vendor fairs. I have met so many contacts this way and it helps keep my referral list growing. There are so many people in your same situation who have made it work. What you need to do is find a good sponsor who is willing to help you in your situation. Make sure they have your interest at heart, not theirs. Best of luck!

Thank you, Laura and Barbara. Yes, I have signed under them. I think I will take a step back, become proponents of the product and meanwhile tell my friends. I already know I'm giving the bronzer to my boss to use as she and her husband just opened a tanning retreat. I just felt very putoff by thinking I had to put in 2K, cuz I don't want to turn around and tell someone else they HAVE to put in 2k. It's a lot of money, to me.

Righteousbabe

You are making the right decision. I would much rather share the product with someone and maybe get a sale, than to go around trying to find people to spend 2k! Some people have no problem trying to talk someone into making such a large investment. Do not go against your morals and values and feel any pressure to do the same. Your sponsor and upline are still supposed to help you launch your new business. Enjoy using and learning about all our products! We have a bunch of new ones being launched in a couple weeks!

Thanks, Barbara. I know I have to believe in this to do it. That threw me Tuesday night. Would it be uncalled for for me to try and reach my ENVP Jodi Whittemore and seek advice from her on how your entry into the business affects you in the long run?

Barbara,
MLM=PYRAMID.
Btw, you did dismiss the facts or downplayed them. Took me 4 times to repeat the same info till you reluctantly agreed that there's " alot of recruiting hype on the website ". You still didn't answer the question posed - why a company that sells a product alsmot solely talks how to RECRUIT people pretty much regardless of the product. Because, guess what, Barbara, the only reason there's any product at all rather than an empty box is that it's available ONLY via Arbonne, aka The Top Of the Pyramid. Please understand that in the scheme the product and particularly its quality is not important, it only has to be something that makes people to buy only from top. For normal companies it shouldn't be important who you're going through, it's only amount of product you're ordering. So if you're fine with this, it's great, but please calm down your ignorant ardor that distracts other people from seeing the scheme. People should be totally aware that it's a pyramid, and if they're fine with this, then it's only their business and nobody has a right to stop them. But unfortunately, your active ignorance is harmful to people because they are not able to see the pyramid behind your exclamations and when they do it's too late.
BTW, I totally believe that Arbonne is going to be sued one day for these practices. It only takes one eager Attorney General to make it happen. Luckily for Arbonne, Spitzer is no longer an Attorney General.
Barbara, I'm no longer even counting on you to review and address all the facts - you simply can't reason because actually you're the one who's totally closed-minded and can't admit anything negative about something they're already in. Please refrain from your lame "..people insult me because I like the product..". People are telling you that you're harming other people by misleading them about the company.

If you would actually read through all my post, you would see that indeed I have disagreed with many methods that are being used in Arbonne. I didn't ignore you 4 times. I said right away that Arbonne is an MLM so of course they are going to focus on bringing new consultants into the business. If you have issues with the way network marketing is set up, I completely respect that. It is not for everyone, but everyone in it is not ignorant either. Why don't you please refrain from the insults and STICK TO THE FACTS!
I have never mislead anyone about the company, the product, or the business.

Barbara,
Unfortunately, I'm the one who's sticking to the facts and the truth. You get offended that people call you a liar but let me quote some of your recent statements:
"...Again, they are in Switzerland. Call it marketing to paint a pretty picture? I don't really care ... Take any course in marketing and they show you how to be more appealing. Some may call in lying, others call it common sense..."
Can you explain this Barbara? You, person of integrity? You just justified lying about the company calling it common sense! Don't even get me started on your famous "My truth [about Arbonne]" on the other website that published your ranting. As people responded to you and shut you up there's only one truth, and if "your truth" is different from what everybody other people call truth, then you're lying.
Another quote from Barbara's posting:
"...Yes, arbonne has a team of scientist in Sion. No, there is not a huge building with the name Arbonne slapped on the outside. They rent a lab that is used for many different purposes, other than arbonne..." Hmm, this is really weird, isn't it Barbara, there's SOME lab, that is used ... for what purposes exactly? So what does Arbonne has to do with this lab? Can you elaborate on the production of the famous Swiss formula? No, you cant, and if you do, you'd be lying, as you stated above.
The last of your quotes that actually advertises Pyramid and NOT the product:
"...the old fasion way of doing arbonne will get you to RVP (car) in about 2-5 years. Much longer than 9-15 months as some.." It sounds like you're guaranteeing RVP in 9-15 months! You should be SUED for that! Because of people like you, other people give up their savings especially if they're desperate!This is worse than gambling which as you should know illegal in many states.
If you really want to be honest when you're recruiting people you should tell them that arbonne is a pyramid and explain what it is. If you don't and moreover trying to diffuse the truth, you're a borderline criminal.

I will not explain anything to someone who twist my words and the reason these "quotes" were posted. I will leave it up to the readers coming here to read all the post, and they can make up their mind. Thanks and God bless!

Laura,
Why are you so anti arbonne? Were you ever involved with the company and didnt succeed? Many people such as myself are no longer with arbonne but man i dont hate them and try to put down everyone who is involved. What is your reasoning for being so hostile? Do you hate all network marketing companies or just arbonne? Just curious as to why you have so much hate for something that you cant control. It seems as if you are waisting so much energy on a useless topic. No offence just making an observation.

Laura,
What is your definitation of "pyramid Scheme"? And i didnt see if you answered my question on if you think all "mlms" are pyramids or just arbonne? thank you for clarifying yourself btw

Laura-go away, get a life, we've all had it with your banter. It furthers nothing. Candace-what company are you refering to? Contact info for you? Barbara-don't listen to it anymore! You have better things to do than argue on a blog with someone's mind you cannot change. Use your energy to further your business...I hope to be as successful as you someday! Everyone, let's use this as a forum of knowledge, not useless, hurtful, anger-filled nonsense.

I would call your upline and ask her what she has to say to those that refuse to put that kind of $$ upfront??????????
you can use samples right?
the whole REsults approach is new. I think it is up the the consultant but it is like other direct sales like marykay having to invest so much money.
You shouldn't have to do that to build a business.
You can if you want, BUT YOU SHOULDN"T HAVE TO or be told you HAVE to.
that is not the right approach.
Yes people may ask how you started, ect.
this is about duplication,
but really is it all about getting new customers or about getting new Business Builders to buy 8 RE 9 sets,
Now they want you to buy the womens and mens sets,
it just is getting out of hand to me. With the HAVE To's.
I think Rita Davenport would say, be true to yourself and do what is right for you.
This is a great product.
We need to help others not put them in a position to have to put thousands on their credit cards. If we do, we just become another Marykay.
Cheers to working with OTHERS best interest 1st not our own, or our upline.
Sincerely,
Staci

Oh my, YES it is a scam.
I went to my first Biz Opp.

just a meeting where they barley talk about products, but they do go over how much $$$$$$$$$$$$ everyone is making, the GROWTH, please the truth is this is NOT a big company, under 120 million i believe after 26 yrs. HELLO.
the mtg was all about signing up with THEIR SYSTEM for success.
to buy all these re9 sets, mens and womens 6 to 8 each and get out there to find others to spend $2000
and of course more to arbonnize your home etc.
it is SCAREY.
this lady was there that said I do not have the money to invest,
you could see she really wanted to buy into the hype the money the cars, but she was looking to make money not to go into debt further for these RE9 sets, it was so sad.
she was told to wait until she saved up for it, and to do it right because this is all about duplication blah, blah blah.
HOW can you justify this company it is so stupid.
i left wanting to take a shower. This women were condesending, rude, uptight and brain dead.
they are just wanna be high class marykay robots
that try to out dress each other in expensive pant suits.
RUN and if any of you have READ the above posts, you know they advertise about this research lab that
they were cought in a LIE.
IT doesn't exsist.
HELLLOOOOOOOOOO
it is a fraud,
the president used to work at AMWAY for pete's sake.
what part of scam don't you get.
this is FRONT END LOADING period.
enough said.

Bett,
Thank you for the information. I just checked AMWAY and it looks exactly like ARBONNE.
It does look like these companies are scam. How come they exist, and nobody controls scams like these if they are indeed scams?
It is very scary if there's no control over somthing like this and people get sucked into that.

Wow!!! I never knew what I was in for when I leisurely started to scroll through these posts.
Here's one more viewpoint on the Arbonne Opportunity.
I signed on with Arbonne just under two months ago. I sponsored my husband soon after and we are SO glad we made this decision. I signed on for the personal growth factor, because I love the flexibility it offers and also because I see the income possibilities.
I DO love the products. I used them for about five months before getting involved with the business side of it. Friends were noticing the difference in my appearance. Now that my husband has been using the products for a month I am AMAZED (say what you will nay-sayers). He has always been handsome, but the noticible blemishes are being eradicated.

Potential Arbonne consultants know this: The products do sell themselves (at least in my limited experience)! The folks buying products from me are more than happy to purchase them. I don't twist anyone's arm and have never felt like I should. I provide information and a sample.

A word about the recent eBay ads.
I can imagine a fair number of them being sample sets that have been around the block once or twice before the owner gives up the business and ILLEGALLY sells them on eBay.

For folks who are thinking about becoming a consultant but are concerned about their uplines residing far away:I am in that situation and I am seeing the a lot of benefits. For one I am forced to become a leader. I have an entire town that hasn't heard of Arbonne. I can build up our region with the integrity I hold dear (absolutly no frontloading!) and I get tons of training and support from my long-distance sponsor. It has made our friendship grow stronger and I can envision some fun trips to visit her in my near future.

In a nutshell-yeah, it's scary, use common sense when entering into ANY sort of venture (common sense I define as equal parts logic and intuition). Anyone that is ranting and directing personal attacks IGNORE. Surround yourself with supportive folks (no matter what you do).
...And have fun!

Hello all-I read this entire blog and I think its clear that many perspectives on Arbonne can exist at once.
I'm not an Arbonne consultant and I never will be. This is not because I think its a scam, its because its not for me. However, I do love the product. But I'm not a "product" person. So why do I love it? It's really more of a rhetorical question, but it can ground Arbonne in a pretty serious cornerstone of a business. I think that's what makes this important. As everyone knows, people, particularly women, spend incredible amounts of money on product...and energy on appearance...Ok, I hope I'm not loosing anybody...because I feel strongly about what I'm going to say: Arbonne is really what you make it. Its a very interesting concept for a business to have it be built on RELATIONSHIPS and so in terms of helping people decide if the business is for them or not, I think so much depends on a person't temperament and willingness to understand that when you are in sales in the for profit sector or fundraising and development in the make-up in the non-profit sector, for instance, the old addage (sp) really holds true: It is about building relationships and practicing "friend-raising". To some this kind of work may feel scary or scam like or fraudulent. I think that it is scary to have to rely on one's personality and faith in the unknown that a method will work. It seems to me that this is a lot of what Arbonne's philosphy is centered on: you set your own goals, you decide on how you will implement those goals and you have faith that it will work and you keep revising it until it works. And so this is a PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUE that I think most people in this blog are grappling with. I know there are the more basic nuts and bolts aspects of the business that can be researched and examined. However, this kind of marketing plan really comes down to having faith in the philosophy of the product/company. That's just my take on it. That is incredibly difficult work that I personally cannot handle because I simply don't have that kind of faith in the unknown. In the end I think it really does come down to your own personal issues about relationships, courage and faith. I'll try to explain this...Arbonne is pretty interesting because they go right to the heart of how people do everything and what makes people good at anything, particularly sales, and that is psychology. And there're very smart about how they do this because they really let the individual design their own strategies. They may get dogmatic to a certain extent with what they've found to work, but that can always be discarded. I mean, no one makes anyone do anything, right? The relationship between the dominant and the submissive is inextricably bound: you cannot have a dom unless there is a sub. Someone has to submit! Of course they want to make money off of you, but the philosphy, if handed down and down and down, will make money for you, too. But the trick is to beleive in it and find others who will beleive in it, too. And that is, again, a matter of faith. This is probably why it feels like a cult to some people. But from what I know about cults, their followers have to have a certain psychological make-up i.e. lack of "ego-strengh".
***If you don't read anything READ THIS:

Arbonne's philosophy basically says that your interpersonal relationships will determine how you do business and how you work, no matter where you are. In otherwords, wherever you go , there you are. Stupid sounding, but it makes sense to me because one's habits - bad, good, conscious or unconscious follow a person in whatever kind of situation they are in, I think. For instance, I would feel sort of ashamed about asking people to do things for me - buy the product, sell the product, hold parties or whatever it is they do. That would be my major issue if I worked this business. I would get in my own way. I would feel silly or ackward. The fact is, that's my own insecure personality that I've really had to work on over the years. What is shameful about selling make-up and skincare in a non-pushy, non-attached way? That's the method they preach! They don't want you to have an attachment to outcome because it take you out of the moment of the relationshp and puts you into the future where you really have no busniss going! See, its very psychologcial and philosophical. They set it up to help you grow as a person in these relationships. I guess they figure, why not use your own personal skills to make yourself some money instead of some guy a the top of a big busienss. I think some people are unrealistic about the fact that busnisses exits to make money off of SOMEBODY...when you work at a grocery store as a checker, they are making money off of your labor. Your labor brings them money. I think that Arbonne attempts to level the playing field and allow the worker more opportunity. I'm not sure if this happens. Again, it probably depends on the person's personality and the idea of building relationships and personal growth. Some people are instantly drawn to that and it makes snese on an intuitive level. To others, this is a turn off...
I hope this has been helpful for some people who are on the fence about Arbonne. I have a good friend who sells it and she's a pretty amazing person. I think she'll make it if she keeps working and keeps the faith.
Best of luck to all.

Is it just me, or Heather's explanation on Arbonne barely makes sense? What does she mean by "What is shameful about selling make-up and skincare in a non-pushy, non-attached way? " It's just blah, blah, blah, but no real explanation how that works.

Candace,
I have that uneasy feeling about Arbonne, and people who are already with Arbonne, just keep saying how great it is without actually explaining why. All business could fall in certain categories, so could arbonne. I need to know exactly HOW it works - is it a pyramid, is it a straight commission based (where it doesn't matter how many people are below you), etc. I tend to agree with non-arbonne people who say it's a pyramid which works for some. Arbonne people unfortunately don't give any good reason except "The product's great!", "Don't pay attention to negative people!". From whatever I saw it doesn't depend just on how good a product is, mostly how many people you recruit and there's something not quite right about it. It's not a reference fee you get paid for these people, it's more like you're relying on everybody below you find more losers.

Sam, I don't think you really care about how it really works because you just want more information to try to ridicule. I am an Arbonne consultant, just started in February and can't say enough great things about the products, the company and the way we promote the products.

Basically, you first believe in the products, then you believe in yourself and your ability to share them. Next, you consider all of the people that you know would love and benefit from using the products and have them try it. If they love it, tell them more about the company (which your upline will teach you) and ask them if they would like to join you on an incredible journey to the top. If they are interested in the business, then you should be grateful and sign them up and help them when they find others that are interested. If they are not interested in the business, thank them for their trial and either sell them the product or move on, no harm done.

Did you know that pyramids are illegal? Did you know that no products exist in pyramids only money? Did you know that Arbonne is a member of the DSA (direct selling association) and that by being a member of DSA you cannot be considered a pyramid? So - get off the pryamid point already - it has gotten old.

No body should ever invest in this business if they do not believe that they know (in advance) someone else who they would want to share it with. This is only common sense and no one should be pressured into giving up their savings. I wasn't and I don't know anyone in my upline that was! We invested in a business that we work very hard for and plan on seeing great returns.

Also, for anyone that says that all of the little people do the work and the top people make all of the money - I have this to say: My upline (making anywhere from $6,000 to $12,000 per month) has done so much work for my team it is incredible. I am working hard, but they are working even harder to help me succeed, you see, if I succeed, so do they. That is what we call levereging your time - we all work hard for each other and support our entire team in their efforts, soon I too will be making a lot of money and they will be thrilled for me and I will have them to thank for their hard work and inspirations!

So - Arbonne works, it has fabulous products and the people that work for Arbonne (consultants included) have given me a new life plan, one that could possibly make me very rich!

Lisa,
You provided an incorrect information in addition to dismissing perfectly legitimate questions.
here's a very good link explaining DSA/MLM/Pyramid
http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/dsa.htm
which says "...The MLM industry has virtually taken over the Direct Selling Association (DSA) and used it for intensive lobbying for anti-pyramid scheme laws which would exempt MLM's from prosecution as pyramid schemes, at the local, national, and international level. However, research conducted by Dr. Jon Taylor demonstrates that the highest loss rates of all pyramid schemes are product-based pyramid schemes, or recruiting MLM's. The MLM industry has virtually taken over the Direct Selling Association (DSA) and used it for intensive lobbying for anti-pyramid scheme laws which would exempt MLM's from prosecution as pyramid schemes, at the local, national, and international level. However, research .... demonstrates that the highest loss rates of all pyramid schemes are product-based pyramid schemes, or recruiting MLM's. So the effect of the legislation is to make the worst pyramid schemes legal. "
I guess it was silly for me to expect an answer from arbonnites - I don't hear anything except slogans and masking the real issues.
Could non-arbonnite elaborate on this topic? I need solid arguments, not empty phrases.

I recently considered Arbonne, and I was ready to commit at the "Double the Results" $1400 USD fee (yeah, no front-loading there). That is, until I discovered the RVP lied to me. She kept telling me that Arbonne was chemical free- complete lie! If you actually look at Arbonne's ingredients, they are full of carcinogenic chemicals, no better than the chemicals you can buy off the shelf at Wal-Mart. When I called the RVP to very nicely state that I would not be joining, she became indignant and rude. The entire experience has formed my opinion that Arbonne is a scam, promoting natural ingredients while loading their products with chemicals. Additionally, all the RVP seemed to care about was getting my money and keeping her new Mercedes. Definitely NOT "Arbonning!"

Greetings all. I stumbled across this site looking for information on Arbonne for a friend. Reading from top to bottom it seems that there are three camps. The camp of Arbonne, the camp of no-Arbonne, and the camp of I'm trying to figure this out.

Maybe there is a fourth camp and that is where I find myself. I am for good business. Some may argue that Arbonne is good business and other against. I'm concerned that no one is really talking about real business principles.

1. Becoming an Arbonne consultant is not owning your own business. You work for a corporation and a manager. Like any corporation bad management, poor training, ineffective skills, and lack of support will lead to failure.

2. Several people have written that it is totally up to YOU as to how much you grow the business. It is not. As long as you are restricted in your selling practices by the company and you are wholly dependent on THEIR supply chain, cycle-times and customer service for servicing your customers they have a definite impact on your ability to grow your business. In a normal business setting I can apply pressures to my supplier for slow shipments and there is always the threat for the supplier of me chosing a better alternative. In this case you have NONE. They are it , they can have a heavy hand in sinking your business.

3. This is not a competition about dreams and who dreams bigger. It is not about Mercedes. It is about freedom which this obviously provides and control for which you do not have much of. Not in servicing, supplying, market saturation, or territory.

4. Reading books about dreams, vision, and believing in yourself are great for any person no matter their occupation. It is important to become a fully actualized-person, with healthy self-esteem and a positive attitude. Those things; however do not add up to good business sense, business practices, or selling ability. But, from what I've read maybe the things I listened aren't that important because this isn't really about selling a product? It is about sharing a philosophy and really good skin care?

5. Every business has to have a marketing strategy. All companies take liberties in marketing and push the limits of truthfulness. That is simply differentiating yourself from the marketplace. Okay. Arbonne sets themselves apart by being PURE - but not organic, SWISS researched and formulated but made in the US, reasonably - though not cheeply PRICED, and at least what everyone agrees upon is that it works well.

GREAT!

As a business consultant when I see that type of market position I think it's fine to take some liberties. But, that's only the beginning. The real PRODUCT being sold is distributorships and sorry folks they are selling Mercedes.

I've been reading the complicated sales payouts and I think by the time the person reaches the car level they have worked enough hours and sold enough products - DISTRIBUTORSHIPS to pay for the Mercedes.

As I mentioned I am a business consultant. Take liberties with marketing but make my payout simple. I don't want free products for working hard I want to be payed. I am self-employed, work from a home office, bill about 25 hours per week, but I charge $3,700/per day training and speaking to organizations.

Straight forward and simple. No middle man, very low offer-head, no parties. I do have to make sales calls and pitches but I see the money in my hand.

If you really have business questions or business concerns before jumping into this business feel free to e-mail me.

Whatever you chose approach it like a business owner. If you're not sure what that means please find out before someone sells you on their ONE (maybe tried and true) business model.

Be wise in all that you do and trust yourself and your gut instincts more than you trust someone else's vision that they have for you.

This is my first posting to a Blog and I will be honest in stating I am an Arbonne consultant that is discouraged at a rogue group of Arbonners that is tainting the image of this company and its products. I would like to offer insight to the reach out methods that I have been exposed to with Arbonne for both the critics and those considering joining the business.

There is the traditional home-based party method in which you give presentations and grow your business through bookings and selling the products. Along the way, you may also bring others into the business that desire to earn some additional cash as well.

Another approach is the Results approach, which consists of sharing the product with a one on one approach that allows the prospect to try the product in their home for a couple of days. You then follow up to pick up the products and close the sale. In this case, you can also present the business and bring in people that desire to do the same.

A third approach, which is driving much of this Blog is not named, but has developed out of the Results approach and it is asking that a person come in purchasing anywhere from 1K to 3K in products. This approach does have people promoting and making large sums of money rather quickly, but I agree that it crosses an ethical boundary. Arbonne has recently put out a communication to all of its VPs to disseminate down to the consultant level to stop this approach. I foresee much more drastic measures taken by Arbonne in the coming months.

Arbonne did start 25 years ago as a one on one or home-based party system that fully intended to have educated consultants with strong product knowledge. It has since evolved rapidly into what is triggering this blog and that is frontloading.

The people using this new frontloading approach are what have given Arbonne its bad name over the last months.

At the same time, you cannot stereotype every Arbonne consultant. I have met many consultants in this company that genuinely desire to share a product they feel is superior, yet priced competitively. It is these people that will continue to see success in Arbonne in 5 years.

If you are thinking of doing Arbonne, you need to understand that you DO NOT need to make large up front purchases and you can succeed in the business by being an honest hard-working personal consultant that grows a business through referrals and through finding others like yourself along the way.

An Arbonne business grown slow and ethically will last. Those grown through frontloading are similar to the concentric circles created by dropping a rock in the water. You do have a large ripple at first, but as the ripples move outward, they quickly fade. Consider this before attempting to succeed via frontloading.

Lastly, I want to say that America is founded on free speech and allowing everyone to have their own opinion and to be able to voice it. Think of how mundane this world would be if we all had the exact opinion.

Let the sides agree to disagree and take time to focus our attention on more important things in life like: family, friends, God, self-education, etc vs. endlessly arguing with a complete stranger that you will never personally meet and who will ultimately have no influence on your life.

If you are considering Arbonne as a business, you need to honestly ask yourself why do you want to join this company. If the motive is greed-based, you will not be successful. If it is because you have used the products and love them and want others to experience the same benefits you have, then you may actually be successful, if you are willing to work hard and sell. This business is selling and building relationships, regardless of what the person who is recruiting you says. Educate and evaluate yourself before you jump in and if you do move forward, do not be persuaded into a large upfront investment.

I think Sara was the only arbonnite who clearly presented what Arbonne is about without any buzz words and claiming that all non-arbonnites are just negative people. I also find Annette's and Fulkerson's blogs helpful. Very different from overzealous Barbara Brown who didn't make any sensible points but kept going and going about nothing.

I suspect Arbonne will be cracking down on the greed soon.It is getting more widespread.

As for parties, that is mostly what I do as well. I am not a high pressure sales type. I have fun with the parties and I often do them as a fundraiser for charities, kicking back a portion of the proceeds to the charity. This is helping me build a more widespread network and my business is slowly (and steadily) growing. My upline is not big on the parties but I am finding they work better for me because I can work them around my kids schedules.

I am cosidering becoming an Arbonne consultant. Can anyone out there tell me realistically how much is enough to enter the business. I understand the $29 start up fee...but how much product should one buy. I am a stay at home mom with my husband owning a lawn service....Not much extra income. Please help me understand what is reasonable...... I have read all comments both negative and positive so I am still open minded at this point.

OCA & Cancer Prevention Coalition Warn of Hidden Carcinogens in Baby Care

Time to Protect Babies
STOP USING ARBONNE NOW... Check your Labels ASAP
Read the back of the ABC body Lotion, read the below ingredients...
the ABC lotion has Triethanolamine
and ALL OF Arbonnes products have Parabens.

From Dangerous Products

CHICAGO, Feb. 28 (AScribe Newswire) -- From shortly after
birth, mothers tenderly wash and pamper their infants with a
wide range of baby products. These include soaps, shampoos,
lotions, and dusting powders, some of which are used several
times daily.

However, how would mothers react if they discovered that
these baby products contain a witch's brew of dangerous
ingredients? Hopping mad could be a reasonable
understatement.

Most disturbing are three groups of widely used
ingredients known as "hidden carcinogens" -- ingredients
which are contaminated by carcinogens, or which break down
to release carcinogens, or which are precursors of
carcinogens -- to which infants are about 100 times more
sensitive than adults.

- The largest group of hidden carcinogens includes dozens
of wetting agents or detergents, particularly PEGs,
Laureths, and Ceteareths, all of which are contaminated with
the potent and volatile carcinogens ethylene oxide and
dioxane. These carcinogens could readily be stripped off
during ingredient manufacture, if the industry just made the
effort to do so. Another hidden carcinogenic ingredient is
lanolin, derived from sheep's wool, most samples of which
are contaminated with DDT-like pesticides.

- The second group includes another detergent,
Triethanolamine (TEA) which, following interaction with
nitrite, is a precursor of a highly potent nitrosamine
carcinogen.

- The third group includes Quaterniums and Diazolidinyl urea
preservatives which break down in the product or skin to
release the carcinogenic formaldehyde.

Of additional concern is another group of common
preservatives, known as Parabens. Numerous studies over the
last decade have shown that these are weakly estrogenic.
They produce abnormal hormonal effects following application
to the skin of infant rodents, particularly male, resulting
in decreased testosterone levels, and urogenital
abnormalities. Parabens have also been found to accumulate
in the breasts of women with breast cancer.

The common use of Talc dusting powder can result in its
inhalation, resulting in acute or chronic lung irritation
and disease (talcosis), and even death. Additionally, Talc
is a suspect cause of lung cancer, based on rodent tests.

Fragrances, containing numerous ingredients, are commonly
used in baby products for the mother's benefit. However,
over 25 of these ingredients are known to cause allergic
dermatitis.

A final ingredient of particular concern is the harshly
irritant sodium lauryl sulfate. A single application to
adult human skin has been shown to damage its microscopic
structure, increasing the penetration of carcinogenic and
other toxic ingredients.

Most disturbing is the ready availability of safe
alternatives for all these dangerous ingredients
(longstanding information on which is detailed on the Cancer
Prevention Coalition website, http://www.preventcancer.com).
So, why is it that the multibillion-dollar cosmetic and
toiletry industry has not acted on this information? The
answer is that the major priority of the industry's trade
association is "to protect the freedom of the industry to
compete in a fair market place." At the same time, the
association pursues a highly aggressive agenda against what
it claims are "unreasonable or unnecessary labeling or
warning requirements." As Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D.MA)
stated at 1997 Hearings on the FDA Reform bill: "The
cosmetics industry has borrowed a page from the playbook of
the tobacco industry by putting profits ahead of public
health."

Astoundingly, the interests of industry remain reinforced
by the regulatory abdication of the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA), in spite of its authority under the
1938 Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetics (FD&C;) Act. Clearly,
the FDA is the lap dog, rather than the watchdog, of the
industry.

Of even greater concern is the reckless failure of the
federal National Cancer Institute and the "non-profit"
American Cancer Society to inform the public of the
avoidable risks of cancer from the use of baby products,
especially in view of the escalating incidence of childhood
cancers over recent decades. However, the silence of the
American Cancer Society is consistent with its over $100,000
annual funding from about a dozen major cosmetic and
toiletry industries.

The protracted failure of Congress to enforce FDA's
compliance with the FD&C; Act has evoked the growing concern
of State legislatures. Assemblywoman Judy Chu (D-Monterey
Park) of the California Senate Health Committee, recently
introduced landmark legislation that requires disclosure of
all carcinogenic, hormonal, and otherwise toxic ingredients
in cosmetics. Strongly backed by a coalition of consumer,
womens, occupational, and church groups, but opposed by
powerful mainstream industry interests, the Bill failed to
pass. However, this shot over the bows of the reckless
mainstream industry marks the beginning of nationwide State
initiatives to protect consumers and their babies from
undisclosed dangerous products and ingredients. Safe
alternative products and ingredients, including organic, are
becoming increasingly available from non-mainstream
companies.

CONTACTS:

- Samuel S. Epstein, MD, Professor emeritus Environmental &
Occupational Medicine, University of Illinois at Chicago
School of Public Health, Chairman, Cancer Prevention
Coalition, and Recipient of the 2005 Albert Schweitzer
Golden Grand Medal for Humanitarianism, 2121 West Taylor
Street MC 922, Chicago IL 60612; phone 312-996-2297; fax
312-413-9898; e-mail epstein@uic.edu; Web
http://www.preventcancer.com/

-- Ronnie Cummins, National Director, Organic Consumers
Association, 6101 Cliff Estate Road, Little Marais, MN
55614; phone 218-226-4164; e-mail
ronnie@organicconsumers.org; Web www.organicconsumers.org

-30-

Media Contact: Samuel S. Epstein, MD, 312-413-9898, epstein@uic.edu
Ronnie Cummins, 218-226-4164, ronnie@organicconsumers.org
Remove Parabens in Beauty Products

2004 � Avon Products, Inc.

WHEREAS :

According to Avon Products' website, 82 products, including Auto Focus Light Adjusting Foundation, Beyond Color Illuminating Radiance Vitamin C Foundation, Beyond Color Vertical Lift Foundation, Perfect Wear Total Coverage Concealer, Clear Finish Great Complexion Pressed Powder contain parabens.

Parabens are preservatives that have been identified as estrogenic and disruptive of normal hormone functions. Estrogenic substances are chemicals foreign to the body that mimic the function of the naturally occurring hormone, estrogen: Estrogen has been shown to control the growth of breast cells3, and exposure to external estrogens has been shown to increase the risk of breast cancer.4

According to a report by the National Research Council, some estrogenic substances are associated with adverse reproductive and developmental effects in wildlife and other animals. The US National Toxicology Program lists steroidal estrogens as "known human carcinogens." 6 Although parabens are not "steroidal estrogens," studies have shown that they can mimic steroidal estrogens in animal studies, including in mammals (see, e.g., Pedersen et al. (2000) and Routledge et al. (1998), cited above).

There is substantial scientific evidence to suggest that increased exposure to substances that behave like estrogen in the body may elevate an individual's risk of developing cancer: Parabens are among these substances. 8

BE IT RESOLVED

The shareholders request that the Board of Directors prepare a report (at reasonable cost and omitting proprietary information), available to shareholders by October 2003 evaluating the feasibility of removing, or substituting with safer alternatives, all parabens used in Avon products.

SUPPORTING STATEMENT

Our company deserves high praise for its commitment to women's health. Avon has raised approximately $190 million for women's health programs in 30 countries through a variety of fundraising programs. Avon states on its web site, "No other company has committed as much money to the cause of women's health." Our company has done more in the breast cancer fight than any other company.

Chemicals that may pose higher-than-average risk to human health, and particularly those that may increase the risk of breast cancer, could undermine our company's good efforts to support women's health, especially in the breast cancer arena. We believe that they do not belong in our products.

1 Pedersen, K.L. et al., "The preservatives ethyl-, propyI-and butylparaben are oestrogenic in an in vivo

fish assay," Pharmacology & Toxicology (Vol. 86(3), pp 110-13, March 2000); Routledge, El., et al.,

"Some alkyl hydroxy benzoate preservatives (parabens) are estrogenic", Toxicology and Applied

Phamlacology (Vol. 153(1), pp. 12-19 (Nov. 1998) and Kant, K.S. et al., "Decreased sperm number and

motile activity on the F1 offspring maternally exposed to butyl p-hydroxybenzoic acid (butyl paraben)",

Journal of Veterinary Medical Science (Vol. 64(3), pp. 227-35 (March 2002).

2 National Research Council, "HorD1onally Active Agents in the Environment" (Washington DC, National

Academy Press (1999) ("NRC Report").

3 US Department of Health and Human Services, National Toxicology Program, "10d1 Report on

Carcinogens", pp. 116-19 (2002).

4 NRC Report, cited above.

5 Id.

6 US Department of Health and Human Services, National Toxicology Program, "101h Report on

Carcinogens", pp. 116-19 (2002).

7 NRC Report, cited above.

8 See Pedersen at 110-13, Routledge at 12-19, and Kant at 227-35.

Sponsors:

Lead: Domini Social Investments, Mr. Adam Kanzer

Cosmetics, Parabens, and Breast Cancer

Subject: Cosmetics, Parabens, and Breast Cancer (article) Posted 9/6/04

From the Summer 2004 newsletter of the Women's Community Cancer Project
c/o the Women's Center, 46 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139

Cosmetics, Parabens, and Breast Cancer
by Rita Arditti

Early this year the media reported that English researchers identified
parabens in samples of breast tumors. Parabens (alkyl esters of
p-hydroxybenzoic acid) are widely used as antimicrobial preservatives
in thousands of cosmetics, personal care products, pharmaceutical
products, and food. There are six commonly used forms (Methylparaben,
Ethylparaben, p-Propylparaben, Isobutylparaben, n-Butylparaben and
Benzylparaben) and it is estimated that they are used in at least
13,200 cosmetics products. According to the lead researcher of the
recent study, Philippa Darbre, an oncology expert at the university of
Reading, in Edinburgh, the chemical form of the parabens found in 18 of
the 20 tumors tested indicated that they originated from something
applied to the skin, the most likely candidates being deodorants,
antiperspirants, creams, or body sprays.

Breast cancer is the most common cancer among women, accounting for
nearly one of every three cancers diagnosed in U.S. women. For 2003,
it is estimated that 211,300 new cases of invasive breast cancer were
diagnosed in women with an additional 55,700 cases of in situ breast
cancer. For many years there have been rumors that underarm deodorants
and antiperspirants used by millions of women, mainly in the West,
might increase the risk of breast cancer. But most researchers thought
this idea seemed too far-fetched, the product of paranoid female minds,
typically substituting rational scientific thinking with
unsophisticated, primitive beliefs. Enter the late nineties. From
1998 on, reports started appearing stating that parabens had
estrogenic-like activity in mice, in rats, and in human breast cancer
cells in the lab. Since most breast cancers respond to estrogen the
link between deodorants and breast cancer did not seem so outlandish
anymore. So, currently, questioning the safety of applying
hormone-mimicking compounds to an areas so close to the breast appears
to have gained some legitimacy. In addition, estrogen/progesterone
Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) was found to significantly increase
breast cancer risk making the paraben/cancer connection even more
plausible.

So what does the new study actually tell us? Up to now it was known
that parabens could be absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract or the
blood, metabolized, and eventually excreted in the urine. But now the
presence of intact parabens in tumor tissue shows that these chemicals
can not only be absorbed through the skin but can also persist and
accumulate in breast cancer tissue in their original form, without
being degraded. (when parabens are eaten they are degraded and lose
some of their constituents, making them less estrogen-like). This is
new information. We do not yet know how long they can persist and what
effects they might have. Because controls with normal breast tissue
were not done, we also don't know if comparable levels of parabens
would be found in normal tissue. Plus, the study did not identify the
route by which the parabens entered the body. In other words, thought
the chemical form of the parabens found suggests that the source was
probably underarm cosmetics, though this needs to be confirmed. (This
article does not say anything about the use of
deodorants/antiperspirants by the women in the study.)

Despite these limitations, this study represents an important first
step. Knowing that parabens can be absorbed through the skin and
retained in breast tissue is necessary in order to investigate the
causes and possible mechanisms of its action. The authors of this
study write in their paper: "This adds parabens to the list of
environmental estrogenic chemicals that can be found to accumulate in
the human breast and already includes polychlorinated byphenyls (PCBs)
and organochlorine pesticides (OCPs)." This also raises the issue of
possible interactions between all these chemicals and the influence
that might have on their toxicity.

In the last couple of years new and much needed work has been done
regarding the accumulation of chemicals in our bodies. The 2003
National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals released
by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) presents data
from 15 different geographic regions of the U.S. representing different
segments of the population including African Americans, Mexican
Americans, adolescents, pregnant women, children, and the elderly and
the findings regarding more than 100 toxic chemicals in their blood or
urine, reflecting the amount of a chemical in the environment that
actually gets in the body. The Report concludes that Americans are
exposed to a broad spectrum of hazardous chemicals that contaminate the
food we eat, the air we breathe, and the water we drink. These
chemicals are now in our tissues/fluids and while we do not know their
specific effects it does not seem too far-fetched to think that having
compounds like dioxins, persistent OCPs, herbicides, PCBs, PAHs
(polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons), phthalates, etc., in our bodies, is
potentially harmful. (For more information on this take a look at a
careful analysis of the report done by Physicians for Social
Responsibility at www.envirohealthaction.org/bearingtheburden.)
It was particularly interesting to read in an article in Health Day
News, January 12, 2004 issue, that Darbre has been studying breast
cancer for over 20 years but in spite of that she could not get funding
for this study, " 'I was told I wouldn't find anything' she says. So,
she galvanized friends and colleagues in the medical community who
helped her gain access to analytic machinery and breast tissue." She
analyzed her samples with high pressure liquid chromatography followed
by tandem mass spectrometry, standard state of the art analytic
techniques. I have often heard the saying that researchers who dare to
"think outside the box" have a hard time getting support for their
work. this case would certainly confirm that view.

Darbre also pointed out in an interview with the New Scientist
(January 12, 2004) that: "One would expect tumors to occur evenly, with
20 percent arising in each of the five areas of the breast. But these
results help explain why up to 60 percent of all breast tumors are
found in just one-fifth of the breast, the upper-outer quadrant,
nearest the underarm." This fact has never been adequately explained.
A few years back Darbre presented a hypothesis regarding the possible
biological mechanisms by which the chemical present in
deodorants/antiperspirants might contribute to breast cancer. Aluminum
zirconium salts are almost always present in these products and
aluminum is known to bind to DNA and had been linked to the development
of granulomas. One simple scenario would be that the aluminum could
damage the DNA of breast cells and the parabens could then promote the
growth of damaged cells. This could explain the disproportionate
number of breast cancer in the upper-outer quadrant of the breast.
Furthermore, it is known that the left breast is more prone to the
development of breast cancer than the right breast. Darbre suggests
that this could be due to the fact that the majority of population is
right-handed which would result in more chemicals applied to the left
underarm area.

Philip Harvey, an editor of the Journal of Applied Toxicology, in the
same issue of the journal where the research appeared, discussed the
significance of the 2004 study. He pointed out that there is logic to
Darbre's hypothesis and that because of the huge size of the population
exposed and because of the direct application of the compounds to the
skin, further research regarding the possible harm of parabens is
warranted. He also wrote that in 2002 a widely quoted study that
examined antiperspirant use and the risk of breast cancer found no
association based on retrospective interviews. But the question of
specific ingredients and not simply antiperspirants was not
investigated and he proposed that research should be designed that is
sensitive to "any effects of long-term, low-level exposure to
mixtures." Plus, Harvey and Darbre also raise the issue of the effects
of estrogen-like compounds on children and those at higher risk of
breast cancer.

After reading all these articles, I was glad that I had stopped using
deodorants/antiperspirants many years back. So, I naturally started
checking my shampoo, bath gel, and the cream that I used for my dry
aging skin. They all contained parabens. Of the 6 most common
parabens, methylparabens was ubiquitous. My bath gel had it along with
three other parabens. Next, I went to my local drugstore armed with
pen, paper, and a magnifying glass, to be able to read the ingredients
of the cosmetics, which are usually written in microscopic characters.
I was surprised to see how many products did not list their ingredients
and for those that did how little I knew about them. Shampoos,
conditioners, lotions, creams, body sprays, sun blocks, sun tanning
lotions, foundations, facial masks, hair-grooming aids, nail creams,
baby products, etc., all contained one or more parabens. Check it out
and see for yourself how incredibly widespread their use is.

Granted, shampoos and soaps are rinsed off so exposures are probably
lower than for lotions, creams, deodorants, etc., that are applied and
purposely left on the skin. But since nobody knows the health effects
of long-term low-level exposures, as a woman living with metastatic
breast cancer for many years I am not taking any chances. My next step
was: how do I find products that do not contain parabens?

Luckily, Breast Cancer Action (BCA) from San Francisco
(www.bcaction.org) an organization that is at the forefront of the
movement developing critical analysis and recognition of the politics
of breast cancer, has done a lot of work on cosmetics and breast
cancer. Their project "Think Before You Pink,"
www.thinkbeforeyoupink.org, raises excellent questions regarding the
cosmetics industry, breast cancer, and their obsession with pink
paraphernalia. BCA points out that a huge number of personal care
products contain ingredients that may raise the risk of breast cancer
but that the companies that produce them, nevertheless present
themselves as committed to the eradication of breast cancer. They do
so by running "cause-related marketing campaigns," exploited the good
will of customers but making pitiful contributions to breast cancer
research. (See the NY Times ad "Philanthropy or Hypocrisy," October
24, 2003 on the BCA webpage). Very helpfully, BCA has a section
providing a list of companies that do not use parabens in their
products (see box on page 9). Information about phthalates in
cosmetics, another set of compounds we also need to worry about, is
available there too. Phthalates seem to have reproductive effects on
males leading to infertility, and high levels of them have been found
in women too.

Though I will certainly look for products without parabens, my
individual solution is not going to make much of a difference to the
huge cosmetic industry and the millions of women who buy their
products. Like in so many other areas of our lives, the impulse for
change will come from organizing and uniting with others to demand an
end to practices that put our health at risk. The Precautionary
Principle, a public health principle brought o the foreground in the
U.S. in a statement drafted by a group of scientists, activists,
government officials, and lawyers dedicated to prevent harm to the
environment and to our health, states that "When an activity raises the
threat of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary
measures should be taken even if some cause and effect relationships
are not established scientifically."

This is the old common sense approach, "better safe than sorry," that
many of us follow intuitively. The Precautionary Principle is not
pie-in-the-sky, wishful thinking on the part of naive people. It has
been widely adopted in Europe and in 2003 the city of San Francisco
issued a Precautionary Principle Ordinance designed as "its policy
framework to develop laws for a healthier and more just San Francisco."
The essential elements of the Precautionary Principle approach to
decision-making about introducing new chemicals include:
Anticipatory Action--the duty to take anticipatory action to prevent
harm.

Right To Know--the right of the community to have complete and
accurate information on health and environmental impacts of products,
services, etc.

Alternative Assessment--the obligation to examine a full range of
alternatives regarding new chemicals including the alternative to do
nothing.

Full Cost Accounting--the duty to consider all reasonably forseeable
costs at all levels of organization.

Participatory Decision Making Processes--decisions applying the
principle must be transparent, participatory, and informed by the best
available information. For more on the Precautionary Principle go to
the web and google it or look at Rachel's Environment & Health Weekly,
#586, at the website www.rachel.org. For the San Francisco ordinance
go to www.ci.sf.ca.us and write Precautionary Principle in the Search
box.

To implement the Precautionary Principle in the case of parabens we
can start by demanding that cosmetics companies eliminate suspected
cancer causing substances from their products. After the research
discussed in this article came out, the UK's department of Trade and
Industry and Britain's Cosmetic Toiletry and Perfumery association
decided to re-examine the data on parabens. That is a necessary first
step but does not go far enough. Unless and until they are established
as safe, parabens should be withdrawn from cosmetics. The burden of
proof should be on the companies that use them and not on the bodies of
breast cancer victims.

A campaign seeking the removal of toxic chemicals from cosmetics has
been recently launched by Women's Voices for the Earth, a women's
environmental justice group from Montana
(www.womenandenvironment..org). As a result of their initiative, a
coalition of environmental and public health groups has emerged, the
Campaign for Safe Cosmetics (www.safecosmetics.org), working to
pressure the health and beauty industry to phase out the use of
chemicals that are known or suspected carcinogens, mutagens, or
reproductive toxins. In January 2003 the European Union banned the use
of these chemicals. By September 2004, all cosmetics and personal care
products sold in the member states of the European Union will have to
be free of substances considered CMR I and CMR II (carcinogens,
mutagens, or reproductive toxins). Accordingly, the Campaign for Safe
Cosmetics is asking the U.S. cosmetics companies to sign the "Compact
for the Global Production of Safer Health and Beauty Care Products"
committing themselves to comply with those principles in the products
they sell in the U.S. and other non-European markets.

The slogan of the campaign, "Because We're Worth It!" sends a clear
message to those who disregard women's health concerns in the pursuit
of profit.

* Keep an eye on the campaign, have your organization join it, and
monitor the follow up that will ensue.

* Spread the word about cosmetics, parabens, and cancer.

* Go to the webpage of the Environmental Working Group, www.ewg.org
and read their report, Skin Deep, a safety assessment of the
ingredients in personal care products.

* Visit the webpage of Breast Cancer Action, www.bca.org, and keep
yourself informed of new developments regarding corporate interests and
cosmetics.

We are part a national and international movement to clean up the
earth and out bodies. Think of the power we could have if millions of
women demanded safe products for themselves and their families!

Paraben-free cosmetics from www.thinkbeforeyoupink.org:

AnneMarie Borlind Natural Beauty
Aubrey Organics Skin, Body & Hair Care Products
Caribbean Pacifics Suncare Products Dr. Hauschka
Earths Beauty Cosmetics
Honeybee Gardens
Kettle Care herbal Body Products
Living Nature Products
Logona Cosmetics
Martina Gebhardt Naturkosmetiks
Natural Solutions-Holistic Beauty&Health;
Organic Essentials Skincare (and Nutritional Product)
Organic Excellence Hair Care Products
Real Purity Cosmetics
Restored Balance Herbal Products
Sante Kosmetics
Suki's Naturals

Web Note: Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps and all Terressentials products, among
others, are also paraben-free as well as made from organic ingredients.

The research work on parabens discussed in this article,
"Concentrations of Parabens in Human Breast Tumors by P.D. Darbre, A.
Alijarrah, W.R. Miller, N.G. Coldham, M.J. Sauer and G.S. Pope appeared
in the Journal of Applied Toxicology, 24, 5-13 (2004)

It sounds noble: a cosmetics company promises that if you buy one of its products, a portion of the sale will go toward �the fight against breast cancer.�

But what if that cosmetic contains chemicals that might actually increase your risk of developing the disease?

Many cosmetics contain chemicals known as parabens and phthalates, which recent studies indicate may be linked to cancer development.

Parabens are chemical preservatives that have been identified as estrogenic and disruptive of normal hormone function. (Estrogenic chemicals mimic the function of the naturally occurring hormone estrogen, and exposure to external estrogens has been shown to increase the risk of breast cancer.)
Phthalates are known to cause a broad range of birth defects and lifelong reproductive impairments in laboratory animals that are exposed to these chemicals during pregnancy and after birth. Phthalates are also known to be hormone-mimicking chemicals, many of which disrupt normal hormonal processes, raising concern about their implications for increased breast cancer risk.
There are numerous other chemicals of concern in personal care products. BCA is particularly concerned about lutein (progesterone), formaldehyde and coal tar due to their links to cancer. The Environmental Working Group recently released Skin Deep, a report on the safety of cosmetics and personal care products. Astonishingly, 1/3 of products tested contain on or more ingredients that are known, probable or possible human carcinogens.

Cosmetic companies will argue that we don't need to worry about harmful chemicals in their products because they are only used on our skin and hair. For example, the cosmetics industry has long stated that their widespread use of parabens and phthalates is not harmful because they remain on our skin and are not absorbed into our body. However, a recent study found parabens in human breast cancer tissue, raising obvious questions about the ability of parabens to accumulate in our bodies (Darbre et al. 2004). In September 2000 scientists from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found phthalates at surprisingly high levels in every one of 289 people tested, especially in women of reproductive age. The authors concluded that "from a public health perspective, these data provide evidence that phthalate exposure is both higher and more common than previously suspected" (Blount et al. 2000).

Many cosmetic companies will also argue that the level of a harmful chemical in any one product is not enough to harm you, based on studies of chemical exposure in adults. However, science is finding the timing of exposure is crucial, and that even a very small dose of some chemicals can have serious consequences in children and young women who are still developing. Also, we are rarely exposed to a chemical just one time. We may use the same product every day, several days a week, for months or years. In addition, we use dozens of personal care products daily, not just one. So while exposure from one product on one day may be small, the fact is we use numerous products a day for extended periods of time. As a result, scientists are finding chemicals such as parabens and phthalates accumulating in our bodies.

Many diseases like cancer, asthma, birth defects and learning disabilities are on the rise, and there is growing evidence that these health problems are linked to the chemicals we are exposed to in our air, water, food, and everyday products. It's time we start acting to protect human health. The Precautionary Principle, a common sense approach to chemical use, says "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". It guides us to take action to prevent exposure to chemicals we know or suspect are harmful to our health. In the case of cosmetics, when a product ingredient is known or strongly suspected of being harmful to our healthy, our top priority should be eliminating the use of this chemical and finding a safe substitute to replace it. In many cases, we know safe alternatives do exist and are already being used by some cosmetic companies. The notion of "safe" or "acceptable" levels of hazardous chemicals in our products should only be introduced when we cannot find alternatives. We are entitled to products that won't hurt us.

We can't let companies have it both ways.

Avon markets itself as �the company for women,� claiming to be the largest corporate supporter of the breast cancer cause in the U.S. But many Avon products contain parabens, according to its own website (including Soy Milk Hand & Foot Therapy, Asian Pear with Ginseng Body Cream, Skin-So-Soft Moisturizing Hand Cream, and many others). Evidence suggests that young females with developing breast tissue are particularly vulnerable to the increased breast cancer risk associated with exposure to external estrogens. Last year, Avon launched a new cosmetics line called �mark,� aimed at young women ages 16 to 24. The company is recruiting teenagers as sales representatives in this program. For more information on Breast Cancer Action�s campaign, see the Follow the Money campaign.

UPDATE: Avon will be removing dibutyl phthalates from its product lines. This is a small but important step by a corporate giant. It's important for the people Avon markets to, many of who are women of childbearing age, and it's important for future generations. BCA applauds this first step, and will continue to push Avon to remove other harmful ingredients from their products.

Revlon sponsors an annual 5K Run/Walk for Women that in part funds the Revlon/UCLA Women�s Cancer Research Program�which, according to www.revlonrunwalk.com, works toward �the control and consequent elimination of women�s cancers.� Meanwhile, The Safe Shopper�s Bible warns against carcinogenic ingredients in several Revlon products, including Revlon Powder Cr�me Blush, Revlon Powder Cr�me Make-Up Pressed Powder Full Matte, and Revlon Colorsilk Salon Formula Ammonia-Free Haircolor.

UPDATE: in EWG's Skin Deep report, products were assigned scores from 0�10 based on the health concerns associated with their ingredients, with 10 being of highest health concern. Over 80% of the Revlon products tested were rated 7.2 or higher. Revlon High Dimension 10 Minute Permanent Haircolor scored 9.6 and contains both known and suspected carcinogens.

Est�e Lauder's Breast Cancer Research Foundation (BCRF), which states its mission as "prevention and a cure in our lifetime," sponsors breast cancer efforts such as the Global Landmarks Illumination Initiative, in which national landmarks such as the Mall of America are spotlighted in pink lights�an effort that is far more likely to generate positive publicity for Est�e Lauder than it is to prevent any woman from developing breast cancer. Their products containing parabens include Polished Performance Liquid Makeup and Precision Lash Mascara, according to The Safe Shopper's Bible.

UPDATE: Est�e Lauder has announced it will reformulate its Clinique and MAC nail polishes to remove phthalates. BCA applauds this step, and will continue to push Est�e Lauder to remove other harmful ingredients from their products.

Mary Kay, whose web site proclaims that the company�s charitable foundation is �committed to eliminating cancers affecting women,� does not make it easy for consumers to find out if its products contain potentially harmful ingredients. It�s extremely difficult for a consumer to identify what is in Mary Kay products: the cosmetics are not available in stores, their product descriptions on the web site do not list ingredients, and repeated attempts to get information about product content from a sales representative were unsuccessful.

UPDATE: After BCA began this project, Mary Kay representatives contacted us to let us know about an ingredient guide that is available on request. Call 1-800-MARYKAY for more information. Also, a concerned consumer sent us a web link to the product guide, which is housed on a part of their web site restricted to Mary Kay sellers only and can only be reached by Mary Kay sellers with a password. The public and consumer part of their web site does not list this product guide. Also, in 2004, BCA co-sponsored important California legislation (AB 2012) regarding the public's right to know about carcinogenic and reproductive toxins in cosmetics and personal care products. Mary Kay was a vocal opponent of the bill.
What Can You Do? Take Action!
Parabens and Breast Cancer
Parabens are synthetic chemicals used as a preservative to inhibit the growth of bacteria, yeasts, and molds. Parabens are known to disrupt endocrine (hormone) function. More than 12 research studies (1) show parabens to have estrogenic activity in animals and in tissue culture. Recent research detected five types of intact parabens in human breast tumors (2). Although not a conclusive link between exposure to parabens and breast cancer, this new research signals the need for a precautionary approach to the manufacture and use of these compounds.

The international research community is beginning to question the safety of parabens in consumer products, based on new evidence of their endocrine disrupting effects. These ubiquitous chemicals are used as preservatives in a host of consumer products: food, pharmaceuticals and personal care products, including shampoos and conditioners, sunscreens, and deodorants. Since 2000, 13 research studies have shown that various types of parabens (methyl, ethyl, propyl, benzyol and benzyl) act like estrogen in animals and in tissue culture. However, the estrogenic activity occurs only when parabens are applied to the skin, not when ingested.

The estrogen/breast cancer connection is indisputable, which raises concerns about chemicals such as parabens that behave like estrogen. These concerns include:

The widespread use of parabens in countless consumer products makes them ubiquitous in the environment and in our bodies through multiple routes of exposure. A report published in the Journal of the American College of Toxicology in 1984 (3) estimated that parabens could be found in over 13,000 cosmetics products.

Parabens are just one type of xenoestrogen to which women are exposed (xenoestragens are synthetic agents that mimic the actions of estrogen). Consequently, another cause of concern is both the cumulative effect and the interaction of parabens with other xenoestrogens, and with the body�s own estrogens � all of which affect endocrine function.

A 2004 UK study detected traces of five parabens in the breast cancer tumors of 19 out of 20 women studied (4). This small study does not prove a causal relationship between parabens and breast cancer, but it is important because it detected the presence of intact parabens -- unaltered by the body�s metabolism -- an indication of the chemicals� ability to penetrate skin and remain in breast tissue.
Daily use of personal care products � especially deodorants and anti-perspirants -- can result in direct, chronic exposure to parabens. A 2003 study published in the European Journal of Cancer Prevention (5) reported, �Frequency and earlier onset of antiperspirant/deodorant usage with underarm shaving were associated with an earlier age of breast cancer diagnosis.�

The U.K. study highlights the need for more research on the potential link between products containing parabens and increased breast cancer risk (6). The authors also point out that prenatal exposure to parabens, and the potential effect on adult cancer risk, needs to be studied. Animal studies indicate that parabens also may affect development of the male reproductive system (7).

While research continues, however, the accumulated evidence makes a compelling case for taking a precautionary approach, individually and collectively, to the manufacture and use of parabens.

Footnotes
1. Blair, RM, Fang H, Branham WS, Hass BS, Dial SL, Moland CL, Tong W, Shi L, Perkins R, Sheehan DM (2000). The estrogen receptor relative binding affinities of 188 natural and xenochemicals: Structural diversity of ligands. Toxicological Sciences 54:138-153.

Byford JR, Shaw LE, Drew MGB, Pope GS, Sauer MJ, Darbre PD (2002). Oestrogenic activity of parabens in MCF7 human breast cancer cells. Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology 80:49-60.

Darbre PD (2003). Underarm cosmetics and breast cancer. Journal of Applied Toxicology 23:89-95.

Darbre PD, Byford JR, Shaw LE, Hall S, Coldham NG, Pope GS, Sauer MJ (2003). Estrogenic activity of benzylparaben. Journal of Applied Toxicology 23:43-51.

Darbre PD, Byford JR, Shaw LE, Horton RA, Pope GS, Sauer M (2002). Oestrogenic activity of isobutylparaben in vitro and in vivo. Journal of Applied Toxicology 22:219-226.

Inui M, Tetsuya A, Takenaka S, Inui H, Nakazawa M, Ueda M, Watanabe H, Mori C, Iguchi T, Miyatake K (2003). Effects of UV screens and preservatives on vitellogenin and choriogenin production in male medaka ( Oryzias latipes). Toxicology 194:43-50.

Jin-Sung P, Lee BJ, Kang KS, Tai JH, Cho JJ, Cho MH, Inoue T, Lee YS (2000). Hormonal effects of several chemicals in recombinant yeast, MCF7 celles and uterotropic assays in mice. Microbiological Biotechnology 10:293-299.

Kang KS, Cho SD, Lee YS (2002). Additive estrogenic activities of the binary mixtures of four estrogenic chemicals in recombinant yeast expressing estrogen receptor. Journal of Veterinary Science 3: 1-5.

Lemini C, Silva G, Timossi C, Luque D, Valverde A, Gonzales-Martinez M, Hernandez A, Rubio-Poo C, Chavez Lara B, Valenzuela F (1997). Estrogenic effects of p-hydroxybenzoico acide in CD1 mice. Environmental Research 75:130-134.

Nishihara T, Nishikawa JL, Kanayama T,Dakeyama F, Saito K, Imagawa M, Takatori S. Kitagawa Y, Hori S, Utsumi H (2000). Estrogenic activities of 517 chemicals by yeast two-hybrid assay. Journal of Health Science 46:282-298.

Okubo T, Yokoyama Y, Kano K, Kano I (2001). ER-dependent estrogenic activity of parabens assessed by proliferation of human breast cancer MCF7 cells and expression of ER alpha and PR. Food Chemistry and Toxicology 39:1225-1232.

Pedersen KL, Pedersen SN, Christiansen LB, Korgaard B, Bjerregaard P (2000). The preservatives ethyl-,propyl-and butylparaben are oestrogenic in an in vivo fish assay. Pharmacology & Toxicology 86: 110-113.

Routledge EJ, Parker J, Odum J, Ashby J, Sumpter JP (1998). Some alky hydroxyl benzoate preservatives (parabens are estrogenic. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology. 153:12-19.

Soni MG, Gurdock GA, Taylor SL, Greenberg NA.(2001). Safety assessment of propyl paraben: A review of the published literature. Food and Chemical Toxicology 39:513-532.

Vinaggard AM, Kroner W, Lund KH, Bolz U, Peterson JH (2000). Identification and quantification of estrogenic compounds in recycled and virgin paper for household use as determined by an in vitro yeast estrogen screen and chemical analysis. Chemical Research in Toxicology 13: 1214-1222.

2. Darbre PD, Aljarrah A, Miller WR, Coldham NG, Sauer MJ, Pope GS (2004). Concentrations of parabens in human breast tumors. Journal of Applied Toxicology 24:5-13.

3. Elder RRL (1984). Final report on the safety assessment of methylparaben, ethylparaben, propylaraben and butylparaben. Journal of the American College of Toxicology 3:147-209.

4. Darbre PD, Aljarrah A, Miller WR, Coldham NG, Sauer MJ, Pope GS (2004). Concentrations of parabens in human breast tumors. Journal of Applied Toxicology 24:5-13.

5. McGrath KG (2003). An earlier age of breast cancer diagnosis related to more frequent use of antiperspirants/deodorants and underarm shaving. European Journal of Cancer Prevention 12:479-485.

6. Harvey PW, Darbre P (2004). Endocrine disruptors and human health: Could oestrogenic chemicals in body care cosmetics adversely affect breast cancer incidence in women? A review of evidence and call for further research. Journal of Applied Toxicology 24:167-176.

7. Fisher JS, Turner KJ, Brown D, Sharpe RM (1999). Effect of neonatal exposure to estrogenic compounds on development of the ducts of rat testis through puberty to adulthood. Environmental Health Perspectives 107:397-405.

Kang KS, Che JH, RYu DY, Kim TW, Li GX, Lee YS (2002). Decreased sperm number and motile activity on the F1 offspring maternally exposed to butyl p-hydroxybenzoic acid (butyl paraben). Journal of Veterinary Medical Science 64:227-235.

Oishi S (2002). Effects of propyl paraben on the male reproductive system. Food and Chemical Toxicology 40:1807-1813.

Parabens are found in human breast tumors
Breast Cancer
March 22, 2004

2004 MAR 22 - (NewsRx.com & NewsRx.net) -- Parabens are found intact within human breast tumors, with methylparaben showing the highest concentration, researchers report.

According to a study from England, "Parabens are used as preservatives in many thousands of cosmetic, food and pharmaceutical products to which the human population is exposed."

"Although recent reports of the estrogenic properties of parabens have challenged current concepts of their toxicity in these consumer products, the question remains as to whether any of the parabens can accumulate intact in the body from the long-term, low-dose levels to which humans are exposed. Initial studies reported here show that parabens can be extracted from human breast tissue and detected by thin-layer chromatography," wrote P.D. Darbre and colleagues, University of Reading, School of Animal & Microbial Science.

"More detailed studies enabled identification and measurement of mean concentrations of individual parabens in samples of 20 human breast tumors by high-pressure liquid chromatography followed by tandem mass spectrometry. The mean concentration of parabens in these 20 human breast tumors was found to be 20.6 � 4.2 ng g-1 tissue. Comparison of individual parabens showed that methylparaben was present at the highest level (with a mean value of 12.8 � 2.2 ng g-1 tissue) and represents 62% of the total paraben recovered in the extractions," the researchers stated.

The researchers concluded: "These studies demonstrate that parabens can be found intact in the human breast and this should open the way technically for more detailed information to be obtained on body burdens of parabens and in particular whether body burdens are different in cancer from those in normal tissues.

Darbre and colleagues published their study in the Journal of Applied Toxicology (Concentrations of parabens in human breast tumours. J Appl Toxicol, 2004;24(1):5-13).

For more information, contact P.D. Darbre, University of Reading, School of Animal & Microbial Science, Division of Cell & Molecular Biology, POB 228, Reading RG6 6AJ, Berks, UK.

Publisher contact information for the Journal of Applied Toxicology is: John Wiley & Sons Ltd., the Atrium, Southern Gate, Chichester PO19 8SQ, W Sussex, UK.

The information in this article comes under the major subject areas of Oncology and Surgery. This article was prepared by Cancer Gene Therapy Week editors from staff and other reports. Copyright 2004, Cancer Gene Therapy Week via NewsRx.com & NewsRx.net.

�Copyright 2004, Cancer Weekly via NewsRx.com & NewsRx.net

Ok ENOUGH About this so Called Business Opportunity. $$ ETC.
This is crazy, why is ANYONE paying this kind of money to Arbonne for Toxic products just because they have brainwashed everyone to FREAK about Mineral Oil.
and animal Bi-products.
this is a Gimmick and the REAL ISSUE at hand is the info. above.
Please, become EDUCATED CONSUMERS,
Not mindless robots.
STOP BUYING THIS and Wasting your money.
and for God's sake don't put it on your babies!
Please.
Bett

Oh good lord here we go...someone citing Sen. Edward Kennedy as actually having credibility after having MULTIPLE drinking problems and more problems treating women properly than you can shake a stick at.

The air you breathe inside your house is probably worse than what is outside. Cheeseburgers have been known to contain cholesterol which could potentially lead to heart disease. The surgeon general keeps warning us about smoking....the general even does such a nice thing by putting a warning on the box to warn you but crazy enough....people still smoke. In Dutch Harbor Alaska, men go fishing for crab every year and it's usually a given that a few people will end up overboard and die...the world's most dangerous job but these guys still do it. Heck I even get in my car and drive to work everyday and the statistics show that most accidents happen within 5 miles of the home. I live 2 miles from my work but gosh darn it, I drive it anyway staying in the danger zone 90% of the time I am driving. I better move to the outskirts of town so my percentage will drop and therefore reduce my exposure.

Mary--I would have to agree with Terri's recommendation. This amount would allow to get a decent start but not compeltely string you out, it's a good starting point, a lot of the people in my upline did $750 for their opening order. Good luck getting started!!

Bett, you have obviously done extensive research on the subject of cosmetics/cancers, etc so I don't question your research. On the flip side of this, you can find something dangerous in just about everything in life, even things you do every day. It also sounds like you have some issues with corporate America who put their profits ahead of their concern for the citizens. I am not saying that companies don't do this because there are some out there that do I am sure. I must commend you on taking the time it took you to post this information and get your thoughts out there.

For Mary---

Bett-

Thanks for all of the information! Please add Miessence to your list of all natural and chemical free products. Email with any questions, or check it out at www.onegrp.com/?naturalbaby Thanks!

mwccnu@aol.com

Candance,
Please reread and see that I never said I "push arbonne as being all natural"
I just said there are other things in the world besides parabens that could be causing cancer - and to realize that many studies both by pharma companies / skincare companies as well as anti-preservative groups are swayed to present a point of view that will get the majority of the population to believe a certain thing.And this is what I think Bett is saying - believe what I have looked up on the internet and posted here.
My point is look at all the other things your skin and insides come into contact with on a daily basis - thinking about things like your clothing - is it all organic? And your matress - that's made from petroleum products as well - I have done my research - and like I said, I just don't believe everything I read on the internet - it's just about like the government - what is that sticker? I love my country but I fear my government - I feel the same way about pharma companies, HMO's, corporate America, and anything else I read on the internet. Just like this is my point of view and that is your point of view - the articles published for / against paraben use is a person's point of view - and most likely not all that objective.