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Obama's health warning

As hopes of compromise on reform fade at televised bipartisan summit, President hints at political war

By Rupert Cornwell in Washington

Barack Obama hosts the bipartisan meeting to discuss health reform legislation at Blair House in Washington

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Barack Obama hosts the bipartisan meeting to discuss health reform legislation at Blair House in Washington

Chances of a last-ditch bipartisan deal on US healthcare reform faded yesterday as Republican leaders told Barack Obama to jettison the current Democratic proposals now marooned in Congress and restart the process from scratch.

At an extraordinary public "summit" of the leaders of both parties, the Republicans also warned their opponents not to try to "jam through" reform in the Senate by the use of a controversial procedural device.

In recent days, the White House and Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill have dropped loud hints that, failing agreement, they would resort to the "reconciliation" mechanism that would require only 51 votes for Senate passage, instead of the 60 needed to overturn a Republican filibuster.

"We believe we have better ideas," said Lamar Alexander, Senator and former governor of Tennessee, as he set out the Republicans' case. "We want you to succeed, because if you succeed, the country succeeds. But we want you to change direction on healthcare. This [the current Democratic Bill] is a car that can't be recalled and fixed," Mr Alexander said, urging Mr Obama to come up with a smaller, more incremental measure.

The exchanges grew more pointed. John Kyl of Arizona, the Senate's second-ranking Republican, warned of "fundamental differences" between the parties "that cannot be papered over", while Harry Reid tartly told Mr Alexander that he was entitled to his own opinions, "but not to your own facts".

"I'd like to hope this won't be political theatre, just playing to the cameras," President Obama said as he opened proceedings in Blair House, the government guesthouse just across from the White House. Then he invoked the death of his mother from cancer and the childhood illnesses of his daughters in making his case.

There had already been a spat over whether the table at which the participants sat should be in a U or an O shape. The exchanges thereafter turned into theatre, or, more precisely, a televised boxing match, in which both sides rolled out their most powerful punches.

Yesterday effectively opened the endgame of the healthcare debate that has dominated Washington politics for the last nine months. After hopes of filibuster-proof Senate passage effectively died with the loss in January of Ted Kennedy's seat in Massachusetts, the President on Monday put forward for the first time his own proposals, raising the stakes even higher.

Mr Obama clearly reckons that having invested so much time, energy and political capital in healthcare reform, he cannot abandon the project now. But privately, Democrats and Republicans agree that the Easter recess that starts in early April has become a de facto deadline for a Bill. With November's mid-term elections already on the horizon, both parties are desperate to switch the focus to the economy and jobs, the issues that matter most to voters.

If anything, the Republicans seemed to have the better of the televised argument. The waspish Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader who along with Mr Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has become a symbol of the gridlocked legislative process, adroitly left the early talking to the folksy Mr Alexander. At times, Mr Obama seemed on his own in fending off Republican criticism.

He also appeared irritable as discussions wandered off substantive arguments back to all-too-familiar talking points. But the basic problem remained: how to extend coverage to the 46 million Americans without health insurance, and reduce the costs of a system that consumes 18 per cent of the US economy and threatens to drown the country in debt.

Mr Reid claimed that 750,000 people had been forced into bankruptcy in 2008 by healthcare bills, and that each year 45,000 Americans die because they lack coverage. Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn – a doctor by training – insisted that 20 per cent of government healthcare spending was fraudulent, and eliminating this fraud could cut costs by 10 per cent or more.

What happens next is unclear. The use of reconciliation in the Senate would infuriate Republicans, and make them even more unwilling to co-operate on healthcare, or anything else. The Bill's fate in the House, where the original proposal passed last year by just five votes, has also become uncertain. Since then, at least two supporters have defected and a third has died.

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US Healthcare
[info]juliandbsmith wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 07:46 am (UTC)

The Republicans didn't win the last election, neither did the health industry lobbyists. Obama should be allowed to push through his reforms his way. If people don't like it they only have to wait four years, the next election will offer another chance to change things. That's how the democratic process works, it's really disturbing to watch big money undermining the political process and ideals of the founding fathers.

Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 09:43 am (UTC)
American voters (Black and White) now deeply regret having put a Cuban style healthcare dictator into office. The Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan has been interviewed several times by the American media to discuss US healthcare reform proposals.

(1). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD-gkXANZ_Q

(2). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Gnd85vP4M

(3). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN3z4eeTc8U

In short, Americans have realised (at the eleventh hour) that their healthcare system is the envy of the world and that they have unwittingly put a Marxists into office who's hellbent on destroying it in favour of a third rate socialised "healthcare" system where people wait up to a year or more to begin chemotherapy following the diagnosis of caner.

Obama is a naked Marxists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJqic0KBrvY
Re: US Healthcare
[info]idontvote wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:49 am (UTC)
Marxist or communist, I would rather be either, than a right wing lunatic that would leave his fellow human to die (including children) just because they do not have enough money, what sort of people are you, you are meant to be an advanced nation, yet you act medieval.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 12:50 pm (UTC)
So you'd rather be unemployed or, unable to afford private healthcare (at around �40 a month) and die from or, watch a close family member or friend, die from a Cuban-style healthcare system which is available to all - yet is too slow, under-financed, and under-manned to actually help the sick and needy that pour through their doors 24hrs a day?

Sir, you're either a dumbed-down liberal, a shortsighted socialist, or a stubborn (I want the state to pay for everything) fool.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 01:10 pm (UTC)
If you're going to die anyway you may as well die in the Cuba system, which is far cheaper per month and has better services.

Just because the American system is American doesn't mean it's any better to die in.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 01:22 pm (UTC)
As Daniel Hannan pointed out, in a private healthcare system the patient (statistically-speaking) is 4x more likely to survive a life threatening illness. In other words, one is 4x more likely to die under a state-run healthcare system compared to a private run one.

Is �10 a week really so very expensive? How much is two packs of cigarettes, three pints of beer, a takeaway pizza?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 02:32 pm (UTC)
Well if you believe everything you see on YouTube more fool you - did you actually do any research on this 4X figure or just believe what he says.

"Mr Reid claimed that 750,000 people had been forced into bankruptcy in 2008 by healthcare bills, and that each year 45,000 Americans die because they lack coverage." Mr Reid said it so it must be true. Or do you choose to believe Hannan because his name comes earlier in the alphabet then Reid? As good a reason as any.

I have to say that reading everything you have posted here it does help dispprove the theory that people from the US don't do irony.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]idontvote wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 02:40 pm (UTC)
How much would you have to pay in the US when you are in your 70's?

I have a friend in the UK in their 70's that has private healthcare, she pays �600 per month, that is �150 per week, or roughly $280 in your country, PER WEEK.
One other question, what happens in the US healthcare system if you get a repetitive illness, do you still get treated?

Btw, I am self employed, do not get any support from the state, and buying my own house, I do not know about the socialist/liberal bit because we never had a nutjob called McCathy to brainwash our family's.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 03:03 pm (UTC)
I'd suggest you friend visit activequote.com. I just did a comparison on that site for a person 71 year old who is an ex-smoker. Price start at �65.16 to �108.95 with the PRU.

I just don't know where people get their information from at times.

Check for yourself: https://www.activequote.com/health-insurance/secure/Compare.aspx
Re: US Healthcare
[info]juliandbsmith wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 12:17 pm (UTC)

I don't have to watch idiot Tory MP's declaiming on YouTube (totally against his party's policy, I might add, the Conservatives are officially pro-NHS, they'd never win an election if they were against it), to know that the English national health service is brilliant. Sure any system has faults but the NHS has given us fantastic service across four family generations at a very reasonable cost in taxation. You don't see anti tax rallies in Europe except in Greece where US influences via Goldman Sachs have helped undermine their financial systems and bolster a generation of tax evading crooks. My friends in France and Germany have an even better health system but then they pay slightly more tax. The only mass rallies you'll see in Europe are rallies like the recent one in Barcelona against the rising of the pension age. No one who isn't stinking rich over here wants the US financial or healthcare systems imported, we've already had a whiff of US sue-everybody and enrich the lawyers culture and quite frankly it stinks.

The only reason that the US has a problem with welfare and healthcare is that the rich elites have exported most US jobs to China, Mexico and anywhere in the world that can manage slavery quietly. The only people enjoying "socialism" in the USA are the top 10% who have privatised wealth and dumped losses into the public domain. The bailout of the Banksters being the prime in your face example..

Re: US Healthcare
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 12:54 pm (UTC)
1) Cuba is a democracy, not a dicatorship.

2) If the American healthcare system is the envy of the world why are no countries trying to make their healthcare systems more like the US'?

The American Republican Health Care system has long since failed the people of the US and needs to be replaced with a more European, Socialist system.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 01:14 pm (UTC)
Clearly the proponents of Marxism are out in force today.

So tell me. As a socialist, you believe that all property is theft - moreover, theft of the state. If I, (as an official of the sate) were to borrow your wife, would you object?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 01:27 pm (UTC)
No idea what you are talking about ('anarchist believe all property is theft', not socialists). Try researching socialism before hating it for no reason.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]exigeboy wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 02:49 pm (UTC)
I would consider myself a socialist. NOT a Marxist or a Communist. There is a difference you know. If you insist on calling anybody who believes the state does have some role to play in the running of a country a Communist, then you should accept that your Conservative views are actually Fascistic. I would honestly rather be a socialist than a Fascist. How about you cs 500?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]exigeboy wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 03:12 pm (UTC)
Slightly off thread but relevant - the only reason the Uber Capitalist state of America still has any relevance in the World is that a year ago it was saved by the Socialist - Marxist - Communist STATE of America!!
Is this just too hard for the Capitalists to accept, or a little difficult for them to understand/comprehend.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 03:34 pm (UTC)
If a Conservative,(Capitalistic) viewpoint affords me an extra twenty years of life courtesy of an affordable, high-quality healthcare scheme so be it. Statistically-speaking, proponents of third-world, Cuban-style healthcare will be long-gone - unable to join in any such future debate owing to their inability to understand that you get precisely what you pay for in this world.

State-run healthcare waiting list are notoriously long. If you've just been diagnosed with cancer which sector would you rather be treated in? As a private patient, you start life saving/prolonging treatment within 2 weeks with a host of additional benefits/medicines that a NHS style healthcare systems simply cannot/will not give to you - (postcode lotteries etc.)

Re: US Healthcare
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 03:58 pm (UTC)
If you are so keen on statistics why is that the figures from the WHO give average life expectancy in the US as being lower than both the UK and Cuba - what is that you have against Cuba anyway?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:01 pm (UTC)
Hey, it's your body. If it goes wrong and you're happy with 3rd-world healthcare it's really none of my business is it.

I haven't got anything against Cuba. I just know that the Cuban healthcare system is stuck in the 60's and many of their hospitals are crawling with cockroaches.

These are the Cuban hospitals that Michael Moore wouldn't show you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25_RgM1jHeo

Re: US Healthcare
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:26 pm (UTC)
OK - let us think why the Cuban healthcare system might be having problems. Anyone help me out here? Oh it really is a tricky one why Cuba would have problems getting what they need, if only I could think of a reason why that might be?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:41 pm (UTC)
Castro made his choice. He chose communism and made himself a long term enemy of the USA by allowing Russian nuclear missile launch pads on his soil. If you were America would you trust Cuba after that?

Commies: Naive and shortsighted and lacking in spirit of cooperation.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:58 pm (UTC)
You really do have a sense of irony!

"If you were America would you trust Cuba after that?" 45 years on - yes I might, do you trust Japan? The world has changed except for you - you do know the cold war finished during Reagan's presidency and we won. If you seriously think Cuba is a threat to the USA then you are deranged.

And my favourite bit

"Commies: Naive and shortsighted and lacking in spirit of cooperation" - fantastic, a person who contantly attacks the NHS then attacks Commies (so many of them left nowadays) for lacking a spirit of cooperation - how are you cooperating with the uninsured poor? So brilliant it goes in my "Couldn't make it up" column.

Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 07:01 pm (UTC)
Once a commie always a commie.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 07:21 pm (UTC)
Great comeback! Better dead than red eh! Oh the 80's just come flooding back.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 10:50 pm (UTC)
Heavens, where do you get all those false clichees about Castro, commies and so forth?
What do you know about American-Cuban historical relations? Ever heard of the Spanish-American
War of 1898? That was an early example of direct U.S. meddling in Latin America, and under the
pretext of "feeling sorry for the poor Cubans under the Spanish yoke", the Yanks went on to attack
the Spaniards, unfortunately winning the battle - and also taking the Philippines for good measure on the other side of the Pacific, happy at last over their first-ever colonial conquest in the Far East.
But you wouldn't know that, would you? Not only is health care in a bad state in the U.S., but, alas,
also, school education is sorely wanting.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]drmagyar wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 03:58 pm (UTC)
Who has the longest lives in the world? Here is a clue: it is not America.

United States comes in at 38th.

Even the UK comes in at 22nd.

I really don't know where you think that the US system is good. You already have your own lottery which is the how much do you earn lottery. If you are born into poverty then you have serious problems under the US system.

And oh did you know thet Hawaii has compulsory health insurance. Is Hawaii communist? What can't you roll out a model that already works in one of the states of your own country?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:29 pm (UTC)
I'm not saying that Americans live the longest or that they lead healthy lifestyles - they don't. All I'm saying, is that Americans have access to one of the finest private healthcare systems in the world. It costs about $70 a month to join which most gainfully employed Americans can afford.

My level-3 Bupa cover here in the UK costs me �44 a month.

Globalism (everything being produced in China by the Chinese) is putting the American out of work and finances are becoming tight for them. But like the Brits' Americans never voted for mass-unemployment brought about by an abrupt end to their own manufacturing base.

Don't blame private health care for being unaffordable - BLame Obama and Bush for selling the American out.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]drmagyar wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:48 pm (UTC)
Nope I blame the lame system the US has for getting anything done. By any standard you want to measure value for money or whatever they don't have a good healthcare system. And oddly even the people that would benefit the most from it have been brainwashed into thinking is it unamerican to have universal healthcare.

But it doesn't really matter. Quite a few states are just introducing their own universal healthcare and sidestepping the federal system. They don't want to wait.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 10:20 pm (UTC)
and don't blame the industrious Chinese if wealthy countries prefer to hand over the production of
goods to them because their own companies don't want to pay high wages to their own dedicated employees at home , many of whom have worked for them for a good part of their lives.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:50 pm (UTC)
Social engineering on an industrial scale plays a very large part in the globalisation equation. People however dumb, rarely vote for their own demise.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]neilpeel wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 04:03 pm (UTC)
The life expectancy in the UK is 79
USA is 78.1
Cuba is 77.5 (despite the embargo)

What does that tell you about the NHS system? Plus we have both private and public healthcare systems so people CAN take their pick here. I have had no problems either with private or NHS treatment.

I think it would be better for the American people to have the choice.

Re: US Healthcare
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:37 pm (UTC)
You're definitely wrong. Cancer patients under the care of the NHS services in European countries, are given the necessary treatment right at the start, with regular follow-ups and under supervision of a special team of doctors, Patients are not simply faces in the crowd as the doctors take interest in each
case, and even encourage patients to ask questions. In other words, this rapport between doctors and patients has a positive therapeutic effect which benefits the cancer patient.
So what's communistic about social healthcare of this model?
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Saturday, 27 February 2010 at 12:02 am (UTC)
With respect, the Utopian healthcare system you drum on about the - (NHS), doesn't actually exist. If it did, I, and the tens of thousands of private patients up and down the UK wouldn't have just renewed our private healthcare plans.

We are not stupid people. We analyse the survival rates of NHS style care against private care and draw an informed opinion from such studies. If the NHS worked, we'd use it and save on private healthcare costs.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 10:32 pm (UTC)
Borrowing one's wife takes more likely than not, takes place in capitalist countries, saturated with
entertainment, drugs, drinks - and downright bored, so they indulge in the sex-group games to amuse themselves. As for socialism...you have no idea what it's all about, and just spout half-baked clichees you were brought up on in your so-called democratic sysrtem.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 10:09 pm (UTC)
You're obviously one who can enjoy the benefits of a health insurance policy while millions of other Americans can only dream about it. Meanwhile, those unfortunate ones should just grit their teeth when in pain and bear it. Who cares, eh? You don't.
Re: US Healthcare
[info]cs500 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:46 pm (UTC)
I've worked hard for what I have - which isn't much. My father developed cancer at the age of 60. His family have a history of cancer in their genes. Yes, I pay �44 a month for Bupa PHC but I've given up other things to pay for it to provide myself with a chance at surviving cancer should it come my way.

What's �44 a month these days? I pay more for my Sky TV package.
Dream world
[info]lasvegasrich wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 04:50 pm (UTC)
cs500 is in a dream world. President Oboma's popularity is just over 50%, much higher then George W. Bush's was when he left. The Obama administration has reached out repeatedly to congressional Republicans for input on the bill, and as a matter of fact incorporated some of their ideas in the bill, only to see the Republicans switch positions and oppose their own proposals. cs500 also errs when he talks about our halthcare system being the envy of the world. We have many fine medical institutions and doctors, but access to them is limited to those people who have adequate health insurance. As Sen. Reid, my senator here, pointed out, 45,000 Americans die each year because they don't have health insurance.This bill will pass, and when Americans experience the novelty of having reasonably priced health insurance, they will love it.
Re: Dream world
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 05:28 pm (UTC)
I hope you are right. Good luck.
U.S. health care
[info]banjobailey wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:33 pm (UTC)
Republicans have never accepted the election of Obama as President. From the beginning, they have stated, over and over again, that they were NEVER going to co-operate with him on any legislation. The author's perception that there will be some kind of "war" if Obama passes health care legislation, is old news. "WAR" was declared, by the Republicans the moment they understood that they were out of power.
I predict that what the health care "summit" will produce will be the loss of this war for Republicans over this issue of health care. The summit produced a simple choice for the American people: something or nothing. They are going to choose "something" because they are really hurting and cannot wait for the Republican's to turn the economy around enough to make it possible for them to continue paying a huge amount of their own money for minimal health care that they receive thanks to the "free market" system of competition.
Re: U.S. health care
[info]boeticia wrote:
Friday, 26 February 2010 at 11:42 pm (UTC)
I couldn't have said it better!
Re: U.S. health care
[info]banjobailey wrote:
Saturday, 27 February 2010 at 12:01 am (UTC)
Thank you, boeticia, I really appreciate it.

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