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DPR King Candidates 2.0
2 months ago  ::  Jan 08, 2010 - 2:50PM #1
borg285
Posts: 1,762
Date Joined: 01/23/08

DPR King Candidates 2.0 


Last Updated: Show
3/16/10 - added a goliath hybrid assassin, riding on the throw and stab train, gets 21 DPR, just a point below the bloodied longtooth variant.
3/07/10 - added/updated LDB's ranger pitfighter
3/07/10 - added At-Will Power Comparison at Level 1 in heroic section
3/04/10 - Moved some things from the nerf bin back to legal.  I used a shotgun approach and some people got hurt, added a new crit fisher.
3/02/10 - With the new updates lots of builds will be tossed in an errata-ed bin
3/01/10 - Added the king of DPR:the Long Night Feycharger (934 DPR)
3/01/10 - Modified arcane slasher's damage, over 500 DPR w/o feycharging - we might need a seperate section for teleporters
2/28/10 - Modified arcane slasher's damage, over 300 DPR w/o feycharging
2/25/10 - added unorthodox level 1 candidate getting 2 attacks/round
2/25/10 - added Wil (Revenant Avenger/Pitfighter/Eternal Seeker) at 30 and 16
2/25/10 -  Throw and Stab has been grouped with Twin strike in key section - Added a snippet form the Normalized Defenses thread.
2/24/10 - Added level 16 and levle 6 throw and stabber that gets incredible DPR


Mar 2 Update
things that need to be updated Show

Salves of Power builds are nerfed
Draconic Spellcaster builds simply need to be updated
Ankhmon's Bracers usage needs to be rethought
 Caiphon's Guidance (student of Ciaphon crit fishers are nerfed)
Elemental type stacking got a wrench: no more radiant and frost stacking, change the damage type and it overrides all elemental keywords.


Old DPR king candidates thread
Dec. 15th updates
Normalized Defenses


Topics to keep in mind while reading through:
Are there any other DPR related cheese I should add in the key?
Are there any quick rules I should set for the nova section?
 

Purpose: To provide a minimally-biased resource to fellow CharOpers and lurkers of current powerful builds.  
Candidates: Please post a link to your build and format an entry found in the template entry section.  The symbols correspond to cheese that you employ.  I am not trying to discourage you but to help avoid classification problems. 

CharOp Wiki
nerfed bin Show

Epic Show

46n+192 DPR Radiant Sorcadin(30th), by GabrionG(078%=)(n=secondary targets)
140.68 DPR Warlock/PMC_Wizard/Archmage(30th), by mellowship (@=1)
260.6 DPR Missilelord (30th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
269.2 DPR Reincarnated Missilelord (30th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
180.84 DPR Hybrids Can PWN(Fighter|Ranger)(30th), by Damon_Tor(1468@=)
~120 DPR You're Gonna Love My Nuts(30th), by Auspex7 (3@)
 
84.2 DPR (7x7) + 51 center SomeName(30th), by GeneralHenry(@=)
level 24: Show
  380.29 DPR DRAGONZORD(24th), by Damon_Tor(>14=?)
43*n+182 DPR Radiant Sorcadin(24th), by Borg285 (078%=)(n=secondary targets)
259.3 DPR Missilelord (24th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
250.7 DPR Reincarnated Missilelord (24th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
King of Feychargers:

  Paragon Show
  169 DPR Half-elf Fighter|Paladin / Champion of Order(16th), by Kylian(168+@=)
142.1 DPR Dragonzord(16th), by Damon_Tor(14=?)
138 DPR Missilelord (16th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
138 DPR Reincarnated Missilelord (16th), by Aesurtiel (157@=)
62 DPR(3x3) +23(mark) Radiant Sorcadin(16th), by Borg285 (078%=)
30.825 DPR (Primary) 37.485 DPR (Secondary) Dragonborn Fighter|Sorcerer, Kensei (16th), by Mengu74 (18?@)
level 12:
55.7(Ch) Radiant Sorcadin(12th), by Borg285 (078%=)
53.49 DPR(Flanking with defender), Avenger/Student of Caiphon(12th), by OpenPalm(3@%)
24.45 DPR(3 targets) Daggered Hands of Frost(12th), by Netarious(@%0)

Epic Show

King of level 30: 
549.072/584.072(after a milestone) DPR Arcane Slasher(30th), by AlphatheGreat(78@)
225 DPR Hybrids Are RADIANT(30th), by Damon_Tor(12468@)
131 DPR Swordmage|Warlock(Con),  Long Night Scion, Sage of Ages(30th), by Auspex7
140 DPR Swordmage|Warlock(Cha),  Long Night Scion, Sage of Ages(30th), by Auspex7 
140.82 DPR Stormwarden(30th), by LordDuskBlade (16;@)
~140 DPR Human (Pursuit) Avenger/Ardent Champion/Sage of Ages(30th), by Auspex7
106.3DPR Wil (Revenant Avenger/Pitfighter/Eternal Seeker)(30th), by kilpatds (46@)
102.95 Half-elf Rogue Feycharger (30), by Mengu74 (4+@^)
98.39 DPR Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)
69.05 DPR(close burst 4) Sheilded Punisher(30th), by Cecil90670
0.75 DPR, Santa Clause(30th), by Elwyndas

King of level 24:
152.41 DPR Storminglord(24th), by Netarious(16@) 
136.57 DPR InYourFace(Fighter|Ranger), by Damon_Tor(168@)
124.33 DPR  Stormwarden(24th), by LordDuskBlade (61;@)
111.20 DPR Stormwarden(21st), by LordDuskBlade (16;@)
73 DPR Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(21th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)


King of Feychargers:
948 DPR Long Night Feycharger(30th), by SongNSilence
494 DPR(Ch) Divine Feycharger(30th), by SongNSilence (^47%@)
195 DPR(Ch) Reincarnate Champion(30th), by Nelphine (^@)

  Paragon Show
  King of level 16:
144.43/168.43 DPR Arcane Slasher(16th), by AlphatheGreat(78@)
90.83  DPR Storminglord(16th), by Netarious(16@)
70.74 DPR  Stormwarden(16th), by LordDuskBlade (61;@)
67.87 DPR Cosmic Sorcerer MC Paladin/Morninglord(16th), by OpenPalm(0@?)
57 DPR Half-elf Avenger/daggermaster/Eternal Seeker(16th), by Fastbond
56.3 DPR Wil (Revenant Avenger/Pitfighter)(16th), by kilpatds (46@)



King of level 12:
68.465 DPR Spiked Chain Shifter (12), by Lazyphilosopher (1,6,8,@)
64.37 DPR Double Sword Master (12), by Lazyphilosopher (1,6;8)
47.92 DPR  Stormwarden(12th), by LordDuskBlade (61;@)
45.17 DPR Half-Orc, Fighter|Ranger, Kensei(11th), by Damon_Tor(618@)
66.48 DPR (69.9675 while bloodied) Dragonborn Ranger|Fighter Honorable Blade (12), by Mengu74 (1,6,8,@)
50.7 DPR Cold as Hell, by magetaa
57.4/115.74(riposte) DPR Infernal striker(12th), by Blahh
52 DPR  Half-elf Rogue/daggermaster(12th), by HeRaw
33 DPR The Executioner(11th), by SongNSilence
23 DPR Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(11th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)

Heroic Show
"Best" striker at levels 1-3?


The CharOp Fight Pit I
Heroic Competition 
At-Will Power Comparison at Level 1 


Charging Mounts Show


You must be the indicated level to gain the mount feature
DPR values are calculated at 6th level against 6th level enemies. at higher levels mounts with attacks start to lose DPR while +5 to damage is always +5 to damage (DPR value remains the same at constant hit rate)

charge mounts:
clawfoot (3) on charge make talon, +9 vs AC, 1d8 + 3  (= 4.3 DPR (Ch)) (magebreed better at 0.75, warhorse at 0.9 hit rate)
warhorse (3) +5 damage on charge
magebred destrier (5) +6 damage on charge
boar (6) on charge make gore, +9 vs AC, 1d10 + 9, push 2 and knock prone (= 8.2 DPR (Ch)) (better then destrier)
steppe pony (6) +1 on charge attacks (better then boar if your attack deals at least 164 damage and doesn't hit on 2) (not in level 6...)
rhino (7) on charge make gore, +13 vs AC, 2d6 + 5 (= 9.25 DPR, but unavailable in 6th level)

not-necessarily-charge mounts: 
skeletal steed (3)  make MBA + kick (+8 vs AC, 1d8 + 2 (= 3.1 DPR, 3.425 DPR (Ch)) or an attack power
giant lizard (6) claw with melee attack, +10 vs AC, 2d6 + 5 (= 6.85 DPR; 7.45 DPR (Ch)) (better then destrier)
slaughterfang hyena (6) target grants CA, bonuses for gnolls (better then lizard if your attack deals at least 68.5 damage and doesn't hit on 3 (again, never in 6th level)
Elephant(level 8 huge): Makes trample attack able to go through creatures@+11 vs AC, 1d10+7+ prone
Celestial Charger(level 10):+2d6 damage on charge attacks


King of level 6:
39.13 DPR (Ch) Shifter Ranger Charger(6th), by Ashern (6)
32.20 DPR(Ch) Longtooth Shifter Charger (6th), by The1Darklord
30 DPR(Ch) Radiant Sorcadin(6th), by Borg285
41.385 (Ch, Mount) Longtooth Shifter Avenger (6th), by tl
38.55 DPR (Ch, Mount) Dragonborn Warlock (6th), by tl
30.45 DPR(CA) Bugbear Brutal Rogue (6th), by tl (@)
18.95 DPR Halfling Basic Sorcerer (6th), by Mengu74 ()
35.13 (34.64 without off-hand Vanguard) DPR (Ch) Longtooth Shifter Charging Avenger (6th) by tl (5@)
31.7 DPR (Ch) Dragonborn Melee Warlock (6th) by tl
23.16 DPR Dragonborn Warlock (6th) by tl
29.25 DPR(CA) Githzerai Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel) (6th), by Reg06 and Mengu74 (@)
29.04 DPR(Ch) Githzerai Avenger Charger (6th), by The1Darklord
25.93 DPR Longtooth Shifter Ranger|Fighter (6th), by Mengu74 (6,8;@)
22.82 DPR DPR Stormwarden(6th), by LordDuskBlade (6) 

King of level 1:
23.3 DPR(Ch)
Longtooth Shifter Ranger(1st), by tl (6)
21 (Ch) Goliath Assassin | Ranger (1st), by borg286(6)

20.345 DPR (CA) Gnoll Rogue|Swordmage(1st), by borg285 and tl (Level 3 item)
20.85 DPR(unorthodox) Human Assault Swordmage|Warlock(1st), by Kylian
13.9 DPR Bugbear Ranger|Tempest Fighter(1st), by tl(@)
13 DPR(mark) + 7 DPR(3x3,non-mark) Radiant Sorcadin(1st), by Borg285
19.88 DPR(CA) Human Rogue, Brutal Scoundrel(1st), by crabcrouton(@)
15.81 DPR Githzerai Assassin(1st), by Intro
19.825 DPR (3x3) Suicide Bomber (1st), by Paultimatum
14 DPR Human Archer Ranger (1st), by Mengu74
15.43 DPR - 16.5 DPR (Ch) Dragonborn Melee Warlock (1st) by tl
19.95 DPR (CA) Bugbear Brutal Rogue (1st) by tl
13.91 DPR(w/o CA) – 14.78 DRP(CA) Dwarven Avenger (1st),by Telosbuild Show

; WIS 20; Dwarven Weapon Training; Execution Axe
12.44  DPR Human Barbarian(1st), by Elwyndas
12.23 DPR Battlefield_Archer(1st), by LordDuskBlade
9.42 DPR Stormwarden(1st), by LordDuskBlade (6)
14.83 DPR Palavenger (1st), by Elder Basilisk
13.85 DPR Goliath Fighter(1st), by ElricEN
10.05 DPR Palavenger (1st), by Elder Basilisk [nAC=2, nfort=1, nref=-4, nwill=-2]
10.23 DPR Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(11th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)

Stereotypical Show


first one's a bit modified Elder_Basilisk's, trying to focus more on DPR then Nova
Human Paladin 1 Show


Str 20, Wis 14
Str Domain, WE

Maul Holy Strike
Attack: +8
Hit: 2d6 + 5 + 2 + 2

0.65*16 + 0.05*21 = 11.45

I know, Str domain is terrible, but I figure it is better then WF until at least 3rd...
besides, the numbers were just too low otherwise

Dragonborn Warlock 1 Show

Str 16, Cha 20
Curse of Io's Blood

Eldritch Blast
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d10 + 5 + 1d6 + 1 +3

DPR: (0.7*18)+(0.05*25)=13.85

a "normal" warlock that I posted together with melee version, this one is a much more stereotypical one

Human Swordmage 1 Show

Int 20
White Lotus Riposte, Arcane Reserves

Longsword Booming Blade
Attack: +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 2

DPR: 0.65*11.5 + 0.05*15 + 0.7*5 = 11.725

with mark and booming blade, I guess that's enough incentive for target to attack you, provoking White Lotus Riposte in the process
going twohander would help the DPR, but that's just wrong

Halfling Storm Sorcerer 1 Show

Cha 20, Dex 16
Sorcerer Blade Channneling

Lightning Strike
Attack: +8 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 3 (+ 3)

DPR: 0.75*12.5 + 0.05*16 + 0.8*3 = 12.575

requires two targets to pull off, but a lot more interesting then Acid Orb spam

Githzerai Monk 1 Show

Dex 20, Wis 16
Githzerai Blade Master

Dancing Cobra (Centered Flurry of Blows)
Attack: +5 vs Ref
Hit: 1d10 + 5 + 2 (+2 +3)

DPR: 0.6*17.5 + 0.05*22 = 11.6

if you have a heavy hitting defender, who's mark did not kick in this turn, you might consider intentionally provoking for another Wis on damage

Dwarf Avenger 1 Show

Wis 20
Dwarven Weapon Training

Ex.Axe Overwhelming Strike
Attack: +7 vs AC
Hit: 1d12br2 + 5 + 2

DPR: ((1-(1-0.65)^2) - (1-(1-0.05)^2))*14.5 + (1-(1-0.05)^2)*26.5 = 13.89375 ~ 13.9

a more common type of avenger then my MBA charger. I feel counting on Censure as a constant benefit is wishful thinking

Wilden Druid 1 Show

Wis 20
IE

Storm Spike
Attack: +6 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 (+5)

DPR: 0.65*9.5 + 0.05*13 + 0.65*5 = 10.325 ~ 10.3

after hitting, close in to dissuade it from moving with Savage Rend (or make your allies do it for you!)

Human Druid 1 Show

Wis 20, Str 13
Enraged Boar Form, Powerful Charge

Pounce Charge
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 2 + 2

DPR: 0.7*13.5 + 0.05*17 = 10.3

a more beastly approach, charging like a savage animal we are

Deva Invoker 1 Show

Wis 20, Con 13, Dex 13
Raging Storm

Divine Bolts
Attack: +5 vs Ref, against 2 targets
Hit: 1d6 + 5

DPR: ( 0.6*10.5 + 0.05*12 ) * 2 = 13.8

Hand of Radiance provides quite a bit more damage (easily up to 18 DPR), but assuming 3 targets is too much

Genasi Wizard 1 Show

Int 20, Str 16
Elemental Empowerment

Scorching Burst
Attack: +5 vs Ref (burst 1 in 10)
Hit: 1d6 + 5 + 3

DPR: 0.6*11.5 + 0.05*14 = 8.175

Cloud of Daggers with maxed Wis would deal more single target DPR, but now we're just being silly.



other (in my opinion) stereotypical build, already made and posted above:
15.8125 DPR Githzerai Assassin(1st), by Intro
14 DPR Human Archer Ranger (1st), by Mengu74
15.425 DPR - 16.5 DPR (Ch) Dragonborn Melee Warlock (1st) by tl
19.95 DPR (CA) Bugbear Brutal Rogue (1st) by tl
12.44  DPR Human Barbarian(1st), by Elwyndas
13.85 DPR Goliath Fighter(1st), by ElricEN



Bugbear Brutal Scoundrel Rogue Show

 with Mage's large double sword and backstabber @ 1st
-With CA d10 + 1(magic) + 4(str) + 4(dex) + 2d8 = ouchie
-+3 (prof) +2(CA) +5(dex) + 1(magic) =+11 vs 13 ref = 90% hit rate
-Drow can pull off Brutal Scoundrel with Distant Advantage, Superior Crossbow and their octopus racial ability
-@2nd lvl take weapon expertise and only miss on a 1, or Battle Awareness + Riposte strike = Catch 22
-21 DPR with CA Nuff said
-8.8 DPR w/o CA



Goliath Rageblood Barbarian Show
 with 20 Str
-Goliath resist 5 1/encounter for 1 round is phenomenal at low levels.
-Goliath Great weapon Prowess: +2 damage w/ 2 handers
-3[w] encounter power @ 1st
-If you drop a guy charge another 1/encounter
-{1/2 orc to upgrade to 4[w] (8d6 w/heavy flail) encounter power, Bugbear(6d8 heavy flail encounter), Goliath, Minotaur, Dragonborn, Eladrin w/ Eladrin soldier and Great spear}
-+1 Vanguard (level 3 item) Property: +1d8 on all charges
-Horned helm (Level 6) +1d6 on charges
-Lancing Gloves(level 7) +2 damage while mounted
-Howling Strike: 1d12(great axe) + 1d6 + 5(str) + 1(magic) + 2(goliath) + 1d8(vanguard) @ +9 vs 15 AC = 75% to hit 
-Crit: free attack
18.6 DPR @ 1st
-Mounted Combat and a warhorse at 3rd
-Howling Mounted Charge: +10 vs 17 AC (70% to hit) , 1d12(great axe) + 1d6 + 5(str) + 1(magic) + 2(goliath) + 1d8(vanguard)+5(mount) = 
-20.8 DPR @ 3rd





Halfling/dragonborn sorcerer  Show

-Of the few who use Bracers of mighty striking(Reaper's Touch) / Bracers of perfect shot
-add secondary stat to all arcane damage rolls, good for area effects
-Chaos: unblockable aura damage(like Rain of Steel) is precious
-Great versatility at range and melee
-6d6 daily 1 eek.gif 
-Imp. Expertise + draconic spellcaster stack
-Single: 1d8 + 4(cha) + 4(str) + 1(magic) + 1(staff of ruin) + 2(bracers) + push @ +7 vs 13 ref = 75% to hit
13 DPR
-Area: 1d8 + 4(cha) + 4(str) + 1(magic) + 1(staff of ruin) @ +7 vs 13 ref = 75% to hit
11.45 DPR (3x3)





For comparison Let's consider a wizard and the generic player (18 in main stat and magic weapon)
Wizard's scorching burst or Winged horde
-1d6+4(int) + 1(magic) @ +5 vs 13 ref = 65% to hit
= 6 DPR

Generic
-1d8(weapon/whatever) + 4(main stat) + 1(magic) @ +6 vs 15 AC = 60% to hit
= 6.3 DPR



 Key Show
0 Magic enhancement/feat/feature meant for weapon but used on implement (jagged dagger for sorcerer, cunning glaive, disruptive net, sorcerer daggermaster, wizard + polearm momentum)
1 Lasting frost + frost weapon
2 Typed damage confers keyword to power (shocking flame adds lightning keyword to melee attacks)
3 Student of ciaphon PP
4 Windrise ports background
5 off-hand weapon properties w/o off-hand attack( Vanguard,Thundergod, subtle...)
6 Twin strike / Throw and Stab
7 White lotus master riposte
8 Hybrid class
9 Punisher of the Gods (post errata)
~ Non-RPGA legal material (dragonmarks(mark of Storm...))
+ Versatile master
% Bloodiron
= Salve of Power
? Draconic Spellcaster
@ Dragon material in general
^ (Feycharger) Fey Charge + Eladrin Swordmage Advance [+White Lotus Riposte]
& (free)
* (free)
- (free)
# (free)



This legend is not to discourage you from using the following items but to help others find builds that are allowed at their table.  Please don't disuss legality of these items.  I'm simply trying to find a way to remain unbaised allowing for as many candidates in as possible.  This list is not for non-DPR related elements(orb of imposition...).


 


Why Those levels Show
1st:  Prime example of optimization.  Given a very limited space (1 feat and 100 gp make something that is optimal.  Many of us only see 1 level of a campaign and this level is first.  
6th: This is as close to mid-Heroic with enough resources to get some nice weapons, have 4 feats at your disposal, and face some pretty nasty monsters.  If you're doing 20+ DPR here you're well on your way to greatness.
12th: Many games start in Paragon, and will see many more levels.  At 11th 2 paragon feats is not enough to guage how well your build does in paragon.  Thus 12th you can have a total of 4 paragon feats, a much more comfortable space.  This level is also a good estimate of power of a build for a campaign that ends at 15th level, just before the level 16 ability that many builds are reliant upon.  Guys that are good here should also do well for the rest of paragon.
16th: This is where your main paragon path feature most likely kicks in.  You have enough paragon levels to put in as many paragon feats that you have room for.  You should see some huge power gained if a build quotes a DPR here.
24th: This is where your Epic feature comes into play and is a good representation of mid epic performance.
30th: Many of us like to see the end result. 

If you say that the build is playable 1-30 please optimize for such.  Rearrange your feats and pick weapons at your choice of the above milestones and calculate your DPR.  We'd like to see when your build really kicks in, even if you start your calculations there.  Does your build stay with the pack of milestone stars or does it finally become a powerhouse when it has 18 feats and can finally buy that vorpal katar.

 Template entry Show


DPR followed by name of build, and author.
Please put in parenthesis the cheese you use.  If you want to separate non-critical cheese please seperate with semicolon(.  Please refer to normalized defenses as an optional number to report.
If you assume Combat Advantage (Rogues I'm talking mostly to you) Please put 121 DPR(CA), and if you're charging use (Ch).  Unless you're a rogue please explain in your build why you can assume CA, or unless you're a Prime punishing ranger who's built around soloing, please explain why you can comfortably make certain assumptions.  We may come up with other exceptional assumptions later.  I'd like to veer away from needing too many keys and lookups.

138 DPR Stormwarden(30), by LordDuskBlade (1,6;@) [nAC=9, nfort=8, nref=10, nwill=-5]

or simply (minimum)

138 DPR Stormwarden (1,6;@)



 Non-Item-Specific Candidates Show

Epic Show


King of level 30:


King of level 24:


 Paragon Show

 


King of level 16:


King of level 12:


Heroic Show


King of level 6:


King of level 1: Please see normal candidates as both Magic item dependent and non-item dependent builds are collected there.




 Nova Show



Daily Show


You are allowed 1 round of preperations before busting open the door and an AP


Epic Show


King of level 30: 
1700 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)
? average damage Hand of the Raven Queen(30th), by erleni


King of level 24:


789 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)


195.80 avg. dam.(7x7) Wizard Nova(20th), by Telos


 Paragon Show


King of level 16:


523 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)


King of level 12:


253 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)



Heroic Show


King of level 6:122.5 avg. dam. Palavenger (6), by Elder Basilisk


120 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)


King of level 1:


54 Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod(30th), by LordDuskBlade(6;@)
Average Damage 85.7 Palavenger (1), by Elder Basilisk [nAC=2, nfort=1, nref=-4, nwill=-2]





 Encounter Show


You are allowed 1 round of preperations before busting open the door and an AP

Epic Show


King of level 30:


King of level 24:


 Paragon Show

 


King of level 16:


King of level 12:


Heroic Show


King of level 6:


King of level 1:





 


Baseline DPR guide Show


Hard and fast rule is the 20-40-60 for baseline DPR at levels 10-20-30 as a standard striker.   If you achieve these minimums you will do just fine in your game.  
What I've observed is: 14 DPR(1st), 20 DPR(6th), 40 DPR(12th), 60 DPR(16th), 100 DPR (24th), 150 DPR(30th)


Analysis of DPR goal by monster HPTypical Monsters gain HP according to the following equation:8+con+level*8 (+-2 +-level*2 depending on monster role).   With a con of 16 this equates to 8*level+24.  If there are en equal number of monsters to PCs and the team needs to kill the monsters in 8 rounds this implies that your DPR must be (8*level+24)/8 = level+3.  Now I know that not everyone can be a striker.  In fact that most of your team isn't.  I'm going to handwave that by saying that I feel that the leader buffs augment you and makes up for his lackluster DPR.  The controler takes care of the hoards and holds off/debuffs tough guys compensating for his single target DPR.  As per the Tank/defender, it's nice to have someone to flank with.The fact that you must grow in DPR as level+3 implies that you should shoot for growing at a rate of 1 DPR / level.  If we look at the vanilla PC with vanilla magic weapons and attribute boosts he grows at .2 / level, whereas you must be growing at 5 times that.  This impies that the slack must be made up in power selection, nifty items, powerful feat combos etc..  



What's that nAC and nref? Show

Normalized Defenses


Table 1: Normalized attack bonus and chance to hit




Poor - Mid - Good


Atk. vs. AC:   3   -   5   -   7


Atk. vs. Def:  1   -   3   -   5


% to Hit:       0.5 - 0.6 - 0.7




Table 2: Normalized defense and chance to hit



Poor - Mid - Good


AC               12  - 14  -  16


Def              10  - 12  -  14


% to be Hit 0.7 - 0.6 - 0.5


 


Guide for calculating DPR Show


DPR for dummies
Double roll 


 


Easy DPR


1/2 * average damage


 


Standard


(Chance to hit-chance to crit) * damage if hit + chance to miss * damage on miss + chance to crit * damage on a crit + constand damage(rain of steel)


 


Calculate chance to hit


Target AC = Level + 14
Attack bonus = 1/2 level + other boni
chance to hit = 1-.05(level + 14 - (1/2 lvl + other attack boni) - 1) = 5%*other boni - .025*lvl + .35
Monster AC: 14+level
Monster NAD: 12+level
Monster To Hit: level + 5 




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2 months ago  ::  Jan 08, 2010 - 7:08PM #2
DavidArgall
Posts: 51
Date Joined: 12/05/07
   Ah, the same source as you have for a DPR 9+ for a stormwarden lists an elven archer with 12+

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
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2 months ago  ::  Jan 08, 2010 - 7:23PM #3
ElricEN
Posts: 178
Date Joined: 04/29/09
"New" level 1 DPR king: Goliath Fighter 1 (Weapon Talent: Two-Handed) with 20 Str/16 Con and Brash Strike, Goliath Greatweapon Proficiency and a Maul.

+10 (+5 Str, +2 Proficiency, +1 Weapon Talent, +2 Brash Strike) to hit for 2d6 + 10 (5 (Str) + 3 (Con) +2 Feat) damage.  Against AC 15, that's 0.75 chance to hit for 17 average damage, and 0.05 chance to crit for 22 damage, which equals 13.85 DPR.  With combat advantage, damage goes up to 15.55.  Defenses: 17/17/10/11.

If you can assume 66% or higher combat advantage (I'm assuming that for any build, you just assume a set % of the time it has combat advantage), the above build is replaced as damage king by a Human Brutal Scoundrel Rogue with Backstabber/Weapon Focus, 20 Dex/14 Str, and a dagger, using Piercing Strke (vs. Reflex 13).  To-hit is +9: +5 Dex, +3 Proficiency, +1 Weapon Talent (and maybe +2 CA).  With CA, on a hit damage is 1d4 + 2d8 + 5 Dex + 2 Str + 1 feat.

DPR for the Rogue build is 18.95 with combat advantage, or 7.3 without.  Defenses: 17/13/18/11.
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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 8:02AM #4
lordduskblade
Posts: 4,479
Date Joined: 08/17/07
That 20 in a main stat on anybody lets them storm out of the gate, and that +1 from Prime Shot the Archer gets is gravy. I've yet to update the Battlefield Archer, though. I don't think that L1 DPR is all that productive, though; you could create a character that's DPR-licious at L1, but sub-optimal for the rest of his career.

I humbly nominate the Ranger/Pit Fighter/Demigod for your L30 nova section, though I'm thinking of adding novas at L11 and L21 as well.
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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 8:44AM #5
borg285
Posts: 1,762
Date Joined: 01/23/08

Jan 9, 2010 -- 8:02AM, lordduskblade wrote:

That 20 in a main stat on anybody lets them storm out of the gate, and that +1 from Prime Shot the Archer gets is gravy. I've yet to update the Battlefield Archer, though. I don't think that L1 DPR is all that productive, though; you could create a character that's DPR-licious at L1, but sub-optimal for the rest of his career.



There is a non-negligible number of us that start a campaign never to return again.  His career is one level long.  It is also in the spirit of optimization within limited resources.  There are enough threads that ask the question of optimal level 1 that I feel a section for them is needed.  Your ranger is one of the baselines for level 1, but not near optimal at that level.  I will be carrying over my low level compilation later.  I was astounded to find the dwarf avenger to be one of the best.

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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 9:26AM #6
Ordrek
Posts: 609
Date Joined: 05/26/09

I'm not sure what to do with the "Key" section.  Are these things that should not or cannot be in submitted builds?  Or are these items that simply need to be noted so others can decide if the build is viable for their campaign?

Either way, you'd probably want to include Fey Charge + Eladrin Swordmage Advance as a potentially naughty combo.  In fact, include FC + ESA + Planestrider Boots (for an additional ESA attack).

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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 11:58AM #7
Mengu74
Posts: 1,487
Date Joined: 11/16/07
Can you define "nova"? Is there a "setup" round? Or is it going to be an exercise in what you can do in 1 round? Can immediate actions (such as disruptive strike) be used to add to a nova?

Also I think somewhere we have a level 1 DPR king thread, good luck finding it, but if you do, you might want to link to it. Some of the options there may be illegal now though, post errata.
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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 1:24PM #8
ElricEN
Posts: 178
Date Joined: 04/29/09

Jan 9, 2010 -- 11:58AM, Mengu74 wrote:

Can you define "nova"? Is there a "setup" round? Or is it going to be an exercise in what you can do in 1 round? Can immediate actions (such as disruptive strike) be used to add to a nova?




There should not be a formal setup round for a "nova."  Damage in a "setup round" should count too, as I elaborate on here.  However, it is reasonable to assume two-rounds of actions and/or some ally assistance, particularly on a Daily nova.

Two assumptions about those:

Either: You start 5 squares away from a "just sitting" there enemy.  You get two rounds of actions to deal as much damage as possible.

Or: you start adjacent to or any number of squares away from the enemy (your choice).  You get one round of actions to deal as much damage as possible.

For aid from an ally, here are 4 scenarios:
You get a power bonus to hit from an ally that lasts the round and/or you get a power bonus to damage from an ally, or you're on your own.  My standard for to-hit at level 16+ would probably be based on a Battle Captain Tactical Warlord, but other assumptions are reasonable.

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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 2:39PM #9
borg285
Posts: 1,762
Date Joined: 01/23/08
I believe i stated in the daily nova a 1 round setup.  I think for an encounter nova a single round would be ok also.  I'll change that now.
As per having help I think that would be unfair.  Everybody would choose the optimal helper and would then become more of a team optimization rather than an individual's choices.  Having a helper would spawn too much debate so I'll play it safe and say you're alone against a block of tofu, however rare that is.  The best I feel can be done is to urge candidates to find their expected damage of a block of tofu of equal level.
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2 months ago  ::  Jan 09, 2010 - 2:46PM #10
borg285
Posts: 1,762
Date Joined: 01/23/08

Jan 9, 2010 -- 9:26AM, Ordrek wrote:


I'm not sure what to do with the "Key" section.  Are these things that should not or cannot be in submitted builds?  Or are these items that simply need to be noted so others can decide if the build is viable for their campaign?

Either way, you'd probably want to include Fey Charge + Eladrin Swordmage Advance as a potentially naughty combo.  In fact, include FC + ESA + Planestrider Boots (for an additional ESA attack).



I'll be including the feycharger.  few people have been able to top SongNSilence's exploration in the feycharging arena.  I'll put that combo in the key section.  As per your first question: the latter.  It's a look up not a banned list.

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