Just out of curiosity, why is OOo aping Office 2007's "Ribbon" design? In addition to being unfamiliar to most users, it looks terribly out of place on anything except Windows Vista/7... Will there at least be an option to use an interface that is, er, usable?

Posted by James on July 31, 2009 at 03:52 PM CEST #

This would be a killer feature for not using OpenOffice.org... Don't implement this, do other things - like live editing in presentation, a correct ttf/otf export or such things.

Posted by e7 on July 31, 2009 at 04:36 PM CEST #

I would like to see list of problems in previous interface of Impress and how these problems are addressed in the new interface. Because now I see only problems (at least for me) with that new interface. It uses screen space very inefficient and menus are in a bit strange proportions - some very seldom used functions, like 'Line' and 'Shapes' takes more than half of screen addressed for commands. I don't think it is kind of improvement. I would be happier with some more artistic themes for Openoffice.org, like I can chose for Firefox or Thunderbird.

Posted by Andis on July 31, 2009 at 04:40 PM CEST #

I think that doesn't make sense to have the L C R J buttons separated. An interface like IBM Lotus Symphony or Corel Wordperfect would be much easier to use than this.

Posted by Diogo Piçarra on July 31, 2009 at 04:44 PM CEST #

Note: The prototype is a mid-fidelity one. So no polished UI. We just want to be able to test the interaction. Content of the toolbars and the group labeling are subject to change. They show just what can be done in this prototype. This allows us to create UX tests that can be run with current OOo and the prototypes.

Posted by Frank Loehmann on July 31, 2009 at 04:59 PM CEST #

Hello,

I don't think that this solves the Impress UI issues, it just meens a new learning curve for the User, until he can do the same things with Impress that he can do now!

In my opinion the current problems are not in the area Toolbar/Menu. The difficult tasks are more:
-Understanding what's defined in the masterpages and what in the presentation itself and how to edit the Masterpage
-Alligning multiple text frames accurately (only one is visible at one time)
-Ensure that multiple pages are graphical identical

These are all tasks where direct manipulating by toolbar buttons doesn't help!

Joerg

Posted by Joerg on July 31, 2009 at 06:02 PM CEST #

I like where this is going, myself. To be honest, the Office 07 Ribbon does look "functionally challenged" at first, but once you get used to it it is so much nicer to work with then a standard interface. After working on a project in Office 07 at my work, I find myself missing the Ribbon now every time I load up OOo.

Posted by sRc on July 31, 2009 at 08:03 PM CEST #

Some of the prototypes on the renaissance wiki are more appealing - such as extensive use of cascading task panes instead of a 'ribbon' - similar to Symphony. If most toolbars and dialog boxes are replaced with such panes (side, or top of the screen) while retaining the familiar menu structure OOo.org will win many converts.

Posted by ben on July 31, 2009 at 09:42 PM CEST #

I think that efforts for creating a minimal UI for small screens (netbooks) today are more necessary

Posted by MR on August 01, 2009 at 06:30 AM CEST #

that's briliant! add even more to the top part of the UI because, you know - the screens aren't getting wider...

Posted by .wu on August 01, 2009 at 01:42 PM CEST #

ಠ_ಠ

Posted by .lod on August 01, 2009 at 02:01 PM CEST #

I expected that at some point OOo will copy the Ribbon interface (being promoted as a "free MSOffice" and all), so nothing very interesting.

From all variations i prefered (in order of preference):
1. Tabbed
2. The default (shown in shot)
3. Scrolling variant 1

Btw if you actually put this in *please* have an option to use the default UI too. This would be an advantage over MSOffice which forces people to use the new UI.

Posted by Bad Sector on August 01, 2009 at 02:48 PM CEST #

The Office ribbon sucks. Please don't copy it.

Posted by Robert Hicks on August 01, 2009 at 03:33 PM CEST #

Please take two things seriously in account:
- Since 2004 over 90% of the sold new monitors have been widescreen. Whenever possible spare the vertical space for actual user instead of ui elements.
- What on earth is that bar on middle left? You can slide something and expand some interface from there? That's a gross brainfart, just the sort of mistake the KDE folks do constantly. You are forcing the user to conduct wide searches which is *extremely* bad for usability. You either put stuff top, bottom, left, or right - never ever to multiple places.

Posted by funny on August 01, 2009 at 04:07 PM CEST #

Unlike some of the others I have no particular objections to the ribbon format or a contextual menu. I understand the importance of needing an 'Office-like' mode to keep new users coming to OO.o.

However I work on a 1024x600 display (Asus Eee) quite a lot - and every other display I own is also wide screen. Really only programmers still have square displays these days as wide screens are cheaper, work better for movies and fit better in economy plane seats.

This means that any UI where you can't shift the tool bar to the side of the content is pretty bad. This goes double for impress where the work area is (nearly) square, and so there are two wasted vertical bar areas on each side.

With a 1024x600px display running Gnome (-80px vertical for tool bars) and this ribbon (-200px vertical?) the open doc will show up as 320x320px.

With a 1024x600px display running a modded KDE (-80px horizontal for tool bars) and a top-to-bottom version of this ribbon (-200px horizontal/-80px vertical for the title bar) the open doc will show up as 520x520px.

That's 2.64 times more work area!

Posted by Bob on August 01, 2009 at 05:01 PM CEST #

The ribbon is for absolute morons. In fact I use OpenOffice at work because they moved to Office 2007 and I just can't stand that STUPID interface for idiots.

OpenOffice needs to stop trying to be Office and just grow it's own set of balls and be itself.

Ooo is stuck in this prepubescent world between nearly finished application and some wild dorm experience that only gets hacked when the participants sober up enough to give a shit.

Clean up your current UI and start with a little dose of visual consistency and logical grouping of functions into tabbed dialogues.

If Ooo is that set on adding anything that remotely resembles the ribbon bar than I'm moving back to NeoOffice.

Posted by talkimposter on August 01, 2009 at 05:15 PM CEST #

> The ribbon is for absolute morons [...] that STUPID interface for idiots.

Sadly most of the target audience seems to be either morons/idiots or people who do not care about space shuttle UIs :-P

> OpenOffice needs to stop trying to be Office and just grow it's own set of balls and be itself.

This would make all knowledge gained from using Office useless. OOo tries to mimic MSOffice's UI to leverage the existing knowledge of the interface.

And this is why i highly recommend Sun to keep both UIs: depending on what version of MSOffice or OOo a user has used before, he will choose the appropriate interface.

Its a nice tagline: "we wont force you to relearn everything from scratch". Or something like that :-P

Posted by Bad Sector on August 01, 2009 at 05:32 PM CEST #

Why are you doing this? the Office ribbon is NOT a natural user interface. I'm studying user interface design, and believe me, the ribbon is confusing for a lot of users, and the design itself can be minimized. look at the clipboard section, the paste button takes a freaking lot of space!

Please don't fix what isn't broken, if Office 2007 did it doesn't mean you have to do it too, please focus in creating a stable product and if you want to do a new release, then provide more features, maybe some templates, but don't create something that people doesn't need.

Posted by Dennis Raver on August 01, 2009 at 05:41 PM CEST #

The default OOO interface, like the pre-ribbon Word interface, is cluttered and difficult to use. I do prefer the ribbon to it, but I'd like to see OOO come up with something even better. This line of thinking is good so far, keep it up.

Posted by grimp on August 01, 2009 at 05:44 PM CEST #

When dealing with text, vertical space is at a premium. Please allow people to use as much vertical space as possible!

Posted by flo on August 01, 2009 at 06:13 PM CEST #

For f**k sake do NOT copy the ribbon interface in MS Office 2007. That is for absolute morons. I've had clients instruct me to reinstall old copies of Office 2003 when faced with the ribbon interface.

If you're going to spend any time on Open Office, how about cleaning up the code?

Posted by Matt on August 01, 2009 at 06:23 PM CEST #

Definitely a step forward. If Ooo is to become an alternative to traditional packages it has to have an updated interface.

Just one suggestion it could be good to try to integrate the application options in the new menus rather than keeping them in the traditional menu bar (which is with the new design redundant) or accessible by pressing the Alt key as in Office 2007.

Keep the good work!

Posted by Office User on August 01, 2009 at 06:32 PM CEST #

As everyone has noted, aping the Office ribbon is not a step forward. OO is always seems to follow MS Office and may never succeed.

The solution is to jump ahead to the next big thing and skip this UI phase.

Posted by Rakesh on August 01, 2009 at 06:42 PM CEST #

1) I think it is good that new prototypes and ideas are tested, especially in regards to the UI. I hope it will lead to improved user experience in the long run.

2) That being said, I am not really sure whether the current focus is really that good. But I am not complaining - the old openoffice UI is really not that good, so any CHANGE might be a real improve, so I will judge AFTERWARDS, not before it is finished.

:)

Posted by mark on August 01, 2009 at 06:58 PM CEST #

You can't just copy the layout design of the actual menu items. You must also make sure all the changes then become live. Microsoft did a lot of testing on this and it works using everything it needs to work. Doing anything less, especially once people get used to the real "Ribbon", will seem lacking in features.

Posted by Mark on August 01, 2009 at 07:01 PM CEST #

Sadly, you're just enforcing the stereotype that open-source programmers cannot innovate and will always copy commercial software. I would love for Sun to hire some professional UI designers, maybe partner with folks like Aza Raskin, and come up with something modern and usable.

Posted by Gopal on August 01, 2009 at 07:15 PM CEST #

I must say moving towards an Office 2007 style ribbon.. thing.. is a horrific idea.

Such a waste of space, unintuitive, and intrusive.

Posted by thtanner on August 01, 2009 at 07:17 PM CEST #

I'm really getting tired of people bashing anything resembling microsoft for the sole reason that it's coming from microsoft. I won't name any names...

Here's the thing. M$ is evil, I agree, but can we at least recognize that some of its innovations are useful (at least to some people)?

I for one love the ribbon-style interface. It just makes more sense. Everything is contextual, organized, and faster than looking through individual half-stamp-sized icons. Frankly, if someone were to ribbon-style an entire OS, I would probably jizz in my pants.

All of you who don't like the new style are entitled to express said opinions, but please make it more measured and reasonable than "ZOMG LOL IT LOOKS LIKE MS IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE AND DOES NOTHING!!!!!1111ONE"

I like this trend and it makes my work easier and more efficient.

Posted by Dude on August 01, 2009 at 07:34 PM CEST #

One more thing I forgot. The only thing that's been keeping me off of OOo is the fact that the interface resembles the old MS Word 2003 and older (and yet, nobody complains about that) and that this interface is clunky and a huge pain to navigate.

This is likely to make me adopt OOo. I love to love open source software, but sometimes commercial software is just more usable. This change of interface is going to remove OOo from my "I wish I could stand it" list.

Posted by Dude on August 01, 2009 at 07:36 PM CEST #

What the f%@^ are you doing with this ribbon sh@#?! Have you people lost your god damn minds?!

This has nothing to do with Microsoft, and everything to do with usability. How can you guys be so blind and stupid not to realize that this interface just plain sucks. It's impossible to easily find anything.

Did you even bother to do any research before wasting everyone's time designing this crap?

Posted by Roger on August 01, 2009 at 08:58 PM CEST #

Sorry - I was a bit harsh in my last post. I felt bad so I came back to try and fix things. I know you're just trying your best to get feedback (after the fact).

What I meant to say is that you guys are a bunch of dipshits for doing this. If anyone working there still thinks this ribbon idea is a good one, they need to be either fired or gang raped by a gaggle of silver back gorillas - or both.

Posted by roger on August 01, 2009 at 09:03 PM CEST #

The best feedback I can offer is this:

Instead of calling this "Project Renaissance" you need to call it "Project Clueless", or if possible, the more descriptive: "Project Take It In The A$$".

Do you guys only work with 30" monitors or something?

Posted by Sam on August 01, 2009 at 09:17 PM CEST #

Congratulations for delivering this new User Interface style.
I hope it will be easily configurable, in contents (what to put in it, levels, etc.) , style (to create themses and to adapt to OSs) and layout (to be able to put on any part of screen, even docking in the middle).
I would only add a plea to support netbooks and smaller screens, and to have a starter mode, with just really basic functionality.

Posted by Ignacio on August 01, 2009 at 09:24 PM CEST #

Microsoft Office's ribbon bar is one of the worse pieces of UI design I've ever seen. To say that it is Office is one of Microsoft's flagship software, the interface is shocking is it's poor design. It reminds me of Fast tracker 2!

Don't mimic it, OOo!

Posted by edam on August 01, 2009 at 09:34 PM CEST #

I like it overall, but it needs to shrink the top bar and have the option to dock the top bar to the side instead of the top for widescreen monitors.

Posted by mrjohnston on August 01, 2009 at 09:34 PM CEST #

Please, PLEASE do not implement this as the only UI option. If this is implemented, instead, make it an alternative to the current style.

Posted by Thomas on August 01, 2009 at 10:01 PM CEST #

OpenOffice should become like the Firefox of Office suites. It should have a customizable UI.

Unfortunately I don't know OOo codebase Firefox's UI is built with CSS and it's insanely customizable because of this.

Posted by Joe on August 01, 2009 at 10:22 PM CEST #

Oh BTW Mr. Interface...

You blog page notifies me of any post to this article even though I did not check the box.

Maybe get your blog working then take a crack at OpenOffice's UI! (:

Posted by talkimposter on August 01, 2009 at 10:48 PM CEST #

Before you implement a UI that breaks the years of embodied use culture that has been built up, consider fixing the UI problems that currently exist with OOo - contextual menus for thing like track changes, deeply hidden formatting options and menu bar problems.

The ribbon is a piece of garbage that dumps existing work habits for no perceivable gain, and fails to sensibly group obvious tasks. Don't go that way.

Posted by Anonymous on August 02, 2009 at 12:29 AM CEST #

I'm not here to argue whether ribbon is good or bad or whether it should or should not be imitated on OO.

but here's a MS presentation on justifications for ribbon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9kD693ie4&feature=channel

Posted by Bob on August 02, 2009 at 03:18 AM CEST #

I think trying the new UI is a great idea, but the ribbon type of interface is a terrible waste of space. Besides, in a global world using icons is the way to go to help users of different languages.

This look a lot like a bad MS-DOS interface.

Posted by Julio Poisot De María on August 02, 2009 at 03:27 AM CEST #

WTF? WHY do we always want to copy damn MICROSHIT ?? That looks just like the damn ribbon from office 2007, doesn't it? Make something new damn it

Posted by Angelo Vargas on August 02, 2009 at 04:12 AM CEST #

I have just tried it. Interesting concept and less cluttered than Microsoft Office 2007. The interface is only a prototype and incomplete (no polished yet; hopefully it will provide a degree of customization. Another interesting concept is the sort mode and 3d view (which should be disable for system with extremely lower spec).

Posted by Finalzone on August 02, 2009 at 04:17 AM CEST #

Oh how I miss my old NeXTSTEP/Openstep UI for such complex applications which could truly leverage vertical menus that are tear-off based and the Main View is the content with a minimalist approach.

http://gnu.ethz.ch/www.levenez.com/OpenWrite.gif

Posted by Marc J. Driftmeyer on August 02, 2009 at 05:31 AM CEST #

Not convince at all. What is it new? And so much vertical space wasted while screen are larger than taller... What is the size of a slide with such system... As previously commented why not present few buttons to toggle interface according to selected activity. Build a functional interface that allows users to do the task step per step. Master : defining elements, style properties and positioning are the key features. Editing: writing, sometime modifying character style, orthography, inserting elements are the key features... And so on.

Posted by FabriceV on August 02, 2009 at 08:19 AM CEST #

The big problem with software is that it is designed by geeks for geeks. Which is why posting on Sun blog and asking for comments will only make the future OOO yet another geek application.

If you really want to make a usable office UI, then go to people with no tech skills whatsoever - teachers, librarians, kids, secretaries, and such.

They will tell you how the ordinary person sees the confusing world before them and what it's meant to do.

Plus, there's habit of course ...

I honestly don't have any styling wise suggestions, because I'm a turbo geek and believe in minimalistic, text-oriented UI.

Ask ordinary people - it's the only way to get things right. No one seems to do this, so here's an excellent opportunity to make an app for normal people and not the tech freaks like us.

Posted by Dedoimedo on August 02, 2009 at 09:37 AM CEST #

If you are going to make a new interface, I suggest making it wide-screen or customizable oriented, the actual UI design sucks, but this prototype sucks even more.

A design similar to Lotus Symphony would be good, you could also use ribbon like buttons, but smaller and vertical oriented, or customize how you want them to be oriented, also it would be great if you allow the user setting they desired button size.

Also you should let the user to select the old interface.

But of course it's only my opinion.

Posted by Clone on August 02, 2009 at 09:53 AM CEST #

OOo don't need ribon alternative, but needs native GNOME and KDE widgets.

Posted by 6205 on August 02, 2009 at 10:55 AM CEST #

I like this prototype.
Please check my suggestion at
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Talk:Renaissance:Prototyping

Posted by Serhiy on August 02, 2009 at 11:16 AM CEST #

Look at Lotus Symphony. I believe that's a good UI starting point. Then make it better!

Posted by NumeriusNegidius on August 02, 2009 at 02:25 PM CEST #

Please stop. Take a step back and think! You are obviously trying to find a pseudo scientific excuse to once more copy the user interface of MS Office so you can continue to push OO.o as a free version of MS Office.

Posted by Frank on August 03, 2009 at 12:35 AM CEST #

That's insane!

You've actually created MORE buttons!

How is that progress?

Posted by Jonas on August 03, 2009 at 10:53 AM CEST #

@Bob:

that Ribbon Design presentation is very intriguing! it shows that there was a LOT of research put into the design of the Ribbon, and TONS of alternative designs, to lead to what we ended up with, and the ultimate goal of reducing clutter.

Posted by sRc on August 03, 2009 at 11:16 AM CEST #

I like this, becouse i can see what is on the panel without clicking and there are items more categorized.

Posted by Mira on August 03, 2009 at 02:07 PM CEST #

This is very cool. If OO.o look like MS Office again I don't need to pay money for M$ LOL.

Posted by Daniel on August 03, 2009 at 03:14 PM CEST #

new gui? please.. don't

Posted by joe doe on August 03, 2009 at 03:50 PM CEST #

Openoffice.org was standing in front of a bottomless abyss. With this new interface it will make a large leap forward.

Posted by JP on August 03, 2009 at 04:24 PM CEST #

I think OpenOffice needs redesign of UI. But the picture above in my opinion is not good way. Currently most of computer screens are wide-screen... Screen height is significantly smaller than screen width. Take the word processor for example. Currently toolbars take 2 lines of place, this decreases place for viewing document itself. However in your new design, "toolbars" take height of more than 4 standard toolbars. This decreases place for viewing document much more. However, in word processor, there are always "gray" places on left and right sides of page. Always in meaning that most of documents are in A4 or Letter format. This gray place is currently used only for viewing comments. And how many comments does normal document usually contain? This place could be used much better and provide much more place for viewing document in vertical.

Posted by Peter Veres on August 03, 2009 at 05:24 PM CEST #

Reading this comment thread has been a source of great humour for me.

The number of people who jump in to say, "This new interface is awful because only someone stupid could use it! What you need to do is copy this old interface which I am already used to!" -- I'm catching a pretty foul "I couldn't learn it because I only use a different thing so this is dumb because I'm smart" vibe there.

They make for very funny posts, especially when you swear! It definitely raises the validity of your opinion when you capitalize words and spam undirected profanity.

There choice seems clear and it has been echoed throughout the thread: a high degree of available customization and a stronger show of appreciation for vertical space is vital. Definitely give people a choice. It's probably harder - but we'll happily wait for a truly better product.

That said, we know you don't plan on using this exact configuration, and (hope you) probably won't default to taking up 200px of vertical space when finished. As you already stated multiple times, this is just to test the UX and show your work.

I'm going to keep the NeXTSTEP picture around as an example of what crazy things users are willing to get used to. From a near-agnostic standpoint, that is a most horrifying mess of buttons, menus, and floating panes. And I model stuff in blender!

Posted by 131.107.0.72 on August 03, 2009 at 08:43 PM CEST #

Sorry to double comment, the above should read,

"The choice seems clear..."

Posted by 131.107.0.72 on August 03, 2009 at 08:46 PM CEST #

I have drawn my own design of new UI. Menus also serve as tabs, on mouse over they should show most commonly used commands from that menu on the toolbar. Panes on the left side could be static or changing dynamically according to current activity. For example, while editing text, the formatting pane could be visible. If drawing or graph is selected, this pane should be invisible, while new pane, allowing change of dimensions, alignment, fill etc. should appear. Panes such as Edit pane could be visible all the time. Formatting pane also contains button in top right corner allowing opening formatting dialog with more features. Design available on http://album.jabbim.cz/peter.veres@jabbim.sk/OOo_design_left.png

Posted by Peter Veres on August 03, 2009 at 09:02 PM CEST #

The person mocking the NeXTStep UI is a moron, through and through. Blender is an abortion of a UI.

Those floating windows is not the standard UI of NeXTStep. It's a demonstration of tear off menus you choose or not while working in a session.

All that's visible is the Top left Menu and the minimalist Editing Context View.

The creator of OpenWrite took a screen shot with a bunch of unnecessary tear off windows opened.

However, depending on your workflow you can customize the session layout to your needs.

The current OO UI is an abortion and this is worse.

Posted by Marc J. Driftmeyer on August 03, 2009 at 11:59 PM CEST #

What is with the obsession of the Menu Subsystem being locked into the Editing Context View?

This crap is half-assed in GNOME and KDE. Yet, people think rearranging side views are the answer.

Apple knows it appeased the masses with the Apple Menu horizontal strip and still haven't given the option of the vertical menu system.

They've moved more and more back to the multiview Inspectors that have always been part of Interface Builder, which is progress.

Yet, Linux bitches about a lack of general consumer adoption but then mocks the most consumer used UI in MS Office, while offering up an even worse Menu system.

Blender is absolute garbage for work flow and productivity. They know it and are working on gutting the entire UI.

However, a Final Cut Studio Pro/blender/Maya environment is not what makes an Office Suite productive.

The advantage of the Vertical Menu [tear off menu] was the minimalist text hierarchy for basic actions while relying on the actual Floating Inspectors [application developer unique] approach to making their application as effective for their audience as possible.

There is no singular menu system that universally covers all ergonomics.

Combining sub actions [pseduo inspectors] attached to the sides or atop of the Context Editing View doesn't improve matters.

It makes it the experience feel suppressive and gives one the sense of being smothered by distraction.

Keith Ohlfs had it correct.

It's been a reinvention of garbage ever since.

If you have a Word Processor, you should be able to have the back-end wise enough to create a pseudo TeX/LaTeX cohesion of form/function through a clean inspector which you create a document Style, be able to save it for re-use and then subclass it's functionality by extending it for custom uses later on.

There is a reason long professional publications use TeX/LaTeX and more recently LaTeX/XeTeX with straight forward editors like TeXShop, Kile, TeXMaker, to more WYSIWYM approaches ala LyX.

They produce a predictable and professional publication.

How hard would it be for an Object Oriented application to leverage that approach to building drag n' drop smart [plists] for document structure while making the UI less about buttons/ribbons?

Hell, even iWorks, Pages.app fails in that regard and would be a huge leap forward if it could use TeX/LaTeX/pdfTeX/XeTeX backends within it's DTP paradigm, by controlling the Text and letting the Display PDF control the Graphics.

Posted by Marc J. Driftmeyer on August 04, 2009 at 12:14 AM CEST #

What is with the obsession of the Menu Subsystem being locked into the Editing Context View?

This crap is half-assed in GNOME and KDE. Yet, people think rearranging side views is the answer.

Apple knows it appeased the masses with the Apple Menu horizontal strip and still haven't given the option of the vertical menu system.

They've moved more and more back to the multiview Inspectors that have always been part of Interface Builder, which is progress.

Yet, Linux bitches about a lack of general consumer adoption but then mocks the most consumer used UI in MS Office, while offering up an even worse Menu system.

Blender is absolute garbage for work flow and productivity. They know it and are working on gutting the entire UI.

However, a Final Cut Studio Pro/blender/Maya environment is not what makes an Office Suite productive.

The advantage of the Vertical Menu [tear off menu] was the minimalist text hierarchy for basic actions while relying on the actual Floating Inspectors [application developer unique] approach to making their application as effective for their audience as possible.

There is no singular menu system that universally covers all ergonomics.

Combining sub actions [pseduo inspectors] attached to the sides or atop of the Context Editing View doesn't improve matters.

It makes it the experience feel suppressive and gives one the sense of being smothered by distraction.

Keith Ohlfs had it correct.

It's been a reinvention of garbage ever since.

If you have a Word Processor, you should be able to have the back-end wise enough to create a pseudo TeX/LaTeX cohesion of form/function through a clean inspector which you create a document Style, be able to save it for re-use and then subclass it's functionality by extending it for custom uses later on.

There is a reason long professional publications use TeX/LaTeX and more recently LaTeX/XeTeX with straight forward editors like TeXShop, Kile, TeXMaker, to more WYSIWYM approaches ala LyX.

They produce a predictable and professional publication.

How hard would it be for an Object Oriented application to leverage that approach to building drag n' drop smart [plists] for document structure while making the UI less about buttons/ribbons?

Hell, even iWorks, Pages.app fails in that regard and would be a huge leap forward if it could use TeX/LaTeX/pdfTeX/XeTeX backends within it's DTP paradigm, by controlling the Text and letting the Display PDF control the Graphics.

Posted by Marc J. Driftmeyer on August 04, 2009 at 12:15 AM CEST #

At least get rid of the damn file menu. That's real progress, man.

Posted by Dread Knight on August 04, 2009 at 04:31 PM CEST #

Never before have I seen such convincing evidence that either:

a) There is no God.
b) He(/She/It) hates us.

This is a joke, right? Ballmer isn't really right that we only mindlessly copy whatever they do... is he?

Posted by Libre on August 04, 2009 at 04:40 PM CEST #

Just NO!

If OOo ends up like that, I will start using inferior alternatives.

Posted by Dan on August 04, 2009 at 05:17 PM CEST #

No
Undoubtedly

Posted by Alex on August 04, 2009 at 05:33 PM CEST #

Hi,

I would say good job! From the screenshot I was not really impressed, but the demo made me change my mind.

There are a lot of good ideas and concepts. Of course it is a new interface and users will need to get used to it, but the new concepts introduced in slides management, for example, make things easier.

Posted by AlbertoP on August 04, 2009 at 05:44 PM CEST #

I am not going to comment about the proposal itself, but about how we (read: the small OOo UI redesign tream) got here.

What happened to those excellent design proposals by the community? Why did you even ask for them, if you are going to decide for something resembling the MS Ribbon 90%?

Worst, however, is that this is the second time the overwhelming user input has been disregarded. Both major surveys were not used to evaluate what the problems are with OOo. Instead, it was simply concluded that there are problems with the UI without specifying them. Then, outstanding user proposals with immense amounts of discussions have been discarded in favor of a top-down decision to copy the MS Ribbon.

Sad. :(

Posted by mutlu on August 04, 2009 at 06:01 PM CEST #

good reason to use another office suite...

will buy corel work perfect office

Posted by tom on August 04, 2009 at 06:07 PM CEST #

Much better than what Microsoft did. I actually really like it.

After using the newest MS Office for quite some time at work, OpenOffice feels really a bit old.
I don't like the way MS did implement the Ribbons.
But this looks really promising.

Posted by Norbert on August 04, 2009 at 08:41 PM CEST #

So OO.o is going to have a ribbon toolbar like MS Office 2007, which is fine, but don't forget that there are people (including myself) who do not like this kind of toolbar and prefer the traditional ones. Make sure that there is an option to switch between ribbon and traditional toolbar.

Concerning the ribbon toolbar, the button's are way too big (MS Office 2007 too), they look like buttons for accessibility for user with visual disabilities. Smaller buttons leave more space in the toolbar, which allows to have more functionality on each tab.

Overall, I think the ribbon toolbar is not the way to go. The main reason I switched from MS Office to OpenOffice.org was because of the ribbon toolbar in Office 2007.

Posted by David on August 04, 2009 at 09:02 PM CEST #

Wow, so now that you've gotten such an amount of flak here, it must be the right.

Anyway, is Project Renaissance some kind of evil plot to force everyone into using unbeloved Java? Srsly: please don't. Even for your own control's sake. This will make it more probable that someone will fork Openoffice.org (and actually call it a fork).

Posted by Aaron Strontsman on August 04, 2009 at 10:28 PM CEST #

people complaining about the interface change really need to learn to live with change.

The ribbon made office 2007 a lot easier to use and if two year later you're still hanging onto archaic menu upon menu you need to bite the freakin bullet.

This wasn't about the button size or judging this as a completed UI is was just a concept,

OO.o will not look like this but it may end up following the design.

Posted by lachlan on August 05, 2009 at 12:47 AM CEST #

Copying the MS Office interface that everyone hates is not a great idea.

I would rather the OOo developers spend ten minutes and fix the bug in Calc that makes an odd root of a negative number return an error.

Posted by Brandon Blackmoor on August 05, 2009 at 02:14 AM CEST #

Good lord, what on earth for? We need reliable functionality not eye candy. Leave it alone!

Posted by celem on August 05, 2009 at 04:56 AM CEST #

I don't like Ribbon UI, but some people found it convenient.

Maybe it's possible to implement UI style switching between classic and Ribbon?

It may be great feature and solve problem of different preferences in UI style.

Posted by Alno on August 05, 2009 at 08:43 AM CEST #

simply awful.
As long as we're moving towards 16:9 displays, it's hard to understand why OO should adopt ribbons instead of sidebars to group controls. additionally, netbooks edition should instead "concentrate" buttons when possible (i.e. grouping in a cascade button mutually exclusive actions like alignment...). running beside msoffice is really the wrong side....

Posted by sergio on August 05, 2009 at 11:11 AM CEST #

Please don't go towards ribbons. In my opinion, one big advantage OO has over MS Office 2007 is the menu structure. It's simple, customizable, and should really stay that way. If you do decide to keep this hideous interface, at least include an option to hide all ribbons and keep the menus.

Posted by Povl on August 05, 2009 at 12:24 PM CEST #

Please, please, please don't copy this disaster from MS Office. It's one of the worst things since the ultra-annoying animated clipy help assistant. Otherwise I'll just have to find another office suite, like KOffice 2 which is now also available for Mac OS X and Windows and not just Linux. They are going in the right direction with their user interface. Thank god it also uses the OpenDocument Format so switching will be easy. So one more example why open file formats like ODF are so important.

Posted by Marjana on August 05, 2009 at 02:00 PM CEST #

Please, don't copy MS Office. Make a Lotus Symphony interface instead. Lotus Symphony side panels + brand new OpenOffice code base=WIN

Posted by marcabru on August 05, 2009 at 02:10 PM CEST #

Please.. no.. not the ribbon interface!

Posted by M on August 05, 2009 at 02:12 PM CEST #

I too disliked the ribbon when it Office 2007 was pushed onto my machine, but I've since come to like it quite a bit more than the old interface. As far as screen real estate goes, it can be minimized very nicely (and I can put my most-used buttons on the smaller toolbar). OpenOffice has a very dated interface at the moment.

Posted by t on August 05, 2009 at 03:51 PM CEST #

The idea to clone the MS Office ribbon is quite nice, as the next generation users will not know of the existence of the classic menus.

But for my personal preference, I would like to have the choice between a ribbon and a oldschool menu.

Posted by Mimor on August 05, 2009 at 04:16 PM CEST #

Ok, the ribbon interface is getting mixed responses here. I have two suggestions:

1 - By default you use the ribbon interface *but* make it really easy to switch back to the normal interface. I hate the ribbon interface, but I can see what you're trying to do.

2 - You redesign the ribbon so it's a vertical interface (OO Enhanced) instead of horizontal and give people the option to switch between 'Office mode', 'OO Classic Mode' and 'OO Enhanced'. This solves the screen real-estate problem. This means that you can lead the UI experience, work better on netbooks and play around without worrying about people getting lost.

Posted by Captain Jed on August 05, 2009 at 05:10 PM CEST #

Please stop all work on things, MS office related I need, use and love openoffice don't mess it up now, you have a good thing going. Stop Stop now and please don't do this. I plead with you DONT!!! AWWWWWWW

Posted by Jamie on August 05, 2009 at 05:20 PM CEST #

This will be great for my netbook. Maybe the UI will use up ALL screen space so that I don't have to see, you know, the actual document I'm working on. That way I can spend all my time clicking various buttons and won't have to bother with how the document turns out. Because I won't be able to see it.

Posted by Anton on August 05, 2009 at 05:58 PM CEST #

Don't do it. Just don't. The ribbon is horrible.

OTOH, go ahead. Just don't make the mistake MS did and get rid of all the familiar menus, and do keep an option to turn the thing off. Best of both worlds.

Posted by Office Hater on August 05, 2009 at 07:10 PM CEST #

I had to install Excel 2007 on a few users machines and the first thing I did was find a hack to disable the ribbon interface.

If you do this make sure to leave an option to turn the damn thing off. Otherwise we'll just have to do it ourselves.

Posted by Jordan on August 05, 2009 at 07:51 PM CEST #

Well, there can be no doubt now that OpenOffice is just a poor clone of Microsoft Office.

You could have done something _better_ than Microsoft -- that takes advantage of Fitt's law and efficiently uses screen real-estate -- by putting commonly used buttons along the side.

The Chinese even did the hard work for you by producing RedOffice, but noooo, if it isn't an exact clone of what Microsoft are doing, it can't be worthwhile.

This is an epic failure, by trying to clone Microsoft Office you will always be, by definition, lagging behind them.

Posted by Jibbidy on August 05, 2009 at 08:02 PM CEST #

Do you really need to give people another reason not to use OpenOffice. Instead of copying Microsoft's UI how about fixing the ridiculous load times for the apps.

Posted by Someguy on August 05, 2009 at 08:12 PM CEST #

Please, DO NOT implement this. This looks like a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Posted by Keito on August 05, 2009 at 08:23 PM CEST #

The ribbon might be ok on a standard large display but it will make OOO unusable on netbooks. There won't be enough space for the document on a 1024x600 display. If you really have to do it, make it an option and keep supporting the old menu system.

Posted by Paolo on August 05, 2009 at 10:39 PM CEST #

This new interface is awful. Please do not incorporate this.

Posted by Winch on August 05, 2009 at 10:40 PM CEST #

If you want to *improve* your UI, ripping off Microsoft is the worst possible thing you can do. I know you want to attract "switchers" with a no-or-minimal learning curve, but I hate to break it to you, the people who are using OO.o are doing so because they don't like MS Office.

Posted by vedder on August 05, 2009 at 10:46 PM CEST #

Menus are archaic? Ack. Just cause something has been around for a while doesn't mean its not good UI.

Posted by RobertSeattle on August 05, 2009 at 10:46 PM CEST #

The absence of the ribbon is the main thing holding me back from adopting OO, at this point. I welcome the option to use the ribbon in OO!

Posted by 209.144.137.1 on August 05, 2009 at 10:54 PM CEST #

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.... DON'T COPY CRAP!!!
I've been using the new Ribbons on Office'07 for about 5 months at the office and I just can't get used to it. They are intuitive and difficult to remember. I am forced to jump from ribbon to ribbon for things that used to be next to each other. It just sucks!!

Posted by Brian on August 05, 2009 at 10:57 PM CEST #

Personally, that looks terrible to me, primarily because it uses far, far, far too much screen space for the "ribbons". And, it's not obvious from the screen shot, but all of those commands also need to be accessible from the keyboard without having to find the mouse and click on a button.

Posted by Doug Franklin on August 05, 2009 at 10:57 PM CEST #

Please make it optional. I would like the Ribbon for my desktop, but I also use a netbook and I can't see my document if there is a big ribbon on half my screen.

Is there a way to have both and change it in the preferences somewhere? That would be the best solution.

Posted by Benjamin on August 05, 2009 at 11:02 PM CEST #

Nooooo! The sanity of the UI is the most compelling reason to go with OO.org. The MS ribbon sux.

Posted by David on August 05, 2009 at 11:11 PM CEST #

While I'm not a fan of MS Office (or MS-anything), I think it's great that the OOo team are trying something new (I also think that the word "prototype" has been lost on a lot of people). What's nice about free software is that if you don't like it, go somewhere else and stop giving the developers a hard time. Thoughtful, constructive criticism brings a lot to the conversation. Let's have more of that and fewer mindless rants that contribute nothing.

Posted by Michael Rowe on August 05, 2009 at 11:12 PM CEST #

Please stop copying every feature from Microsoft. You will always be a full version behind anyway! Stick with what works, and develop a system more responsive to user input and flexible than anything that MS can come up with. That's what makes FOSS great, not 'necessity' or 'desire'. The 'ribbon' should be an addon, not an option or lord forbid the default.

Posted by JT on August 05, 2009 at 11:21 PM CEST #

I'll just say that I downgraded to Office 2003 because I hate this design.

Posted by David on August 05, 2009 at 11:21 PM CEST #

This is complete and utter garbage. I just got out of a meeting with a professional designer that is still sticking with Office 2000 because of the ribbon screwing up his workflow.
If you're going to re-do the UI, at least make the *attempt* to improve upon things, not just copying *OLD* *BROKEN* ui from Microsoft.

Posted by Me on August 05, 2009 at 11:21 PM CEST #

I really hope this isn't implemented. The ribbon design in Office 2007 is bad enough. I don't want it to come to OpenOffice too. If this does get implemented plan to lose some user base.

Posted by Anon on August 05, 2009 at 11:24 PM CEST #

Please... don't.
Openoffice currently has a great advantage over MSOffice in that it doesn't require you to use the ribbon interface.
Retraining users to that new interface costs a lot of time and money, which makes switching to Openoffice from office 2003 a better proposition than switching to office 2007 for small and medium businesses.
Don't let go of that asset.
If you really have to implement that inferior and punishingly unintuitive mess of an interface, at least make it optional.

Otherwise, expect users to switch to abiword and similar alternatives, or to see a forked version of openoffice with the 'normal' interface.

Personnally, I'd be sad to have to change to another office suite, but the 'enforced' ribbon would force me to do so.

Posted by Eric Hanuise on August 05, 2009 at 11:28 PM CEST #

Just to chip in with all the others:
This is a HORRIBLE idea. I like the idea of tweaking with the UI, but this is a total waste of really valuable screen space.

It also looks awful. The Office 2007 ribbon is probably the most hated UI element since Clippy and the blink tag.

If you're going to go with a new UI, how about letting us do something lightweight and smooth, that we can adjust.

Oh well, I guess it's back to using Crossover Office.

Posted by MB on August 05, 2009 at 11:29 PM CEST #

...just please god make the damn thing optional. I understand including the ribbon as a training-wheel option for people migrating from the hell that is m$ office. For those of us who've already escaped, it is both unwanted and highly annoying.

Posted by M. Martin on August 05, 2009 at 11:31 PM CEST #

i have no principal problem with the ribbon ui in ms office 07. i like having all the functions of a certain topic (layout, text style, etc.) available at a click, when i am working on a specific aspect of a document.

however a lot of time in ms office 07 i find myself searching for the function i need in the various ribbons and if it's not available there for a dialog that offers the feature i am looking for. i knew where to find what i was looking for in the old ms office interface but the new one just costs too much time.

if open office is to use the ribbon interface i would suggest adding a customization theme so users can change the ribbons to fit their needs. also a theme feature so users can use a different ui would be a major step forward.

simply copying the ms office 07 interface would be imho not the smartest move. it may make the product easier to adapt to for people moving from the latest ms office but not necessarily a major improvement overall.

Posted by Sebastian on August 05, 2009 at 11:31 PM CEST #

I have never been a big fan of the ribbon... but at least you don't replace the main menu with it like MS Office does.

My company has not switched to OpenOffice yet because of subtle differences in layout when importing files from our gigantic library of old MS Office files...

But we have also not switched to MS Office 2007 yet either, due to our user's dislike for the wacky non-standard interface.

We still mostly use Office 2003 :(

Posted by James Paige on August 05, 2009 at 11:32 PM CEST #

I have to concur with the folks who are complaining the proposed interface takes up too much screen space, particularly vertical screen space. This could be improved somewhat by utilizing horizontal screen space instead of vertical screen space and shrinking the gigantic buttons, but even then, I think I would prefer the current user interface.

I don't oppose the UI redesign solely on principle, but you really have to consider that many people will want to use OO.org on netbooks and/or monitor screens with resolutions as low as 1024x562. I would also like to point out that having a UI that is easily navigated solely by using the keyboard is also a very good thing.

Posted by Fred on August 05, 2009 at 11:34 PM CEST #

I truly despise the ribbon. Please come up with something new, instead of copying a mistake.

Posted by Human Plague on August 05, 2009 at 11:36 PM CEST #

There are so many bugs left to be fixed, it's actually a waste of resources to be doing the ribbon, which I hate and think is counter-productive.

Posted by Khloe on August 05, 2009 at 11:36 PM CEST #

Please implement this feature only as optional. We are not going to use it at all.

We need the space for the documents, not the tools. The tools that we need can be controlled by keyboard, not mouse.

If you have time insert new functionalities, clean up code for faster work...

Thanks!

Posted by Robert on August 05, 2009 at 11:38 PM CEST #

Please, please please, avoid big buttons.

They always remember me phones and appliances for challenged people.

Posted by Freddy on August 05, 2009 at 11:42 PM CEST #

Well, time to start familiarising myself with KWord I guess.

I've observed OOo blindly aping everything MSOffice does for some time now -- <rant> e.g. some of the changes that came in OOo2: right-click behaviour like MSOffice (right-clicking moves the selection before opening a contextual menu), even though MS's software is the ONLY software in existence that does that; bullet-points/numbering in lists as selectable fields, even though that severely waters down the style-based approach of OOo </rant> -- and wondering why anyone would want to throw away something clear and consistent and *excellent* in favour of something muddled and inscrutable and annoying.

Well, the advent of a ribbon would be considerably more than a step too far for me to stick with OOo.

-- especially as a ribbon would make OOo absolutely unuseable on my 1024×600 EEE PC.

Posted by Petrushka on August 05, 2009 at 11:43 PM CEST #

I'm sorry, this new 'ribbon' thing just doesn't do it for me. I see no need for a new toolbar system.

I'd rather see more useful options built into OOo like previous posters have mentioned.

Posted by Matthew on August 05, 2009 at 11:44 PM CEST #

I work IT support for a community college. While this OOo "ribbon" interface probably won't get used in that environment, I have a hard time with the ribbon in Office 2007. Nothing is where I want/think it is.
Putting it in OOo would be close to my worst nightmare, and definitely a deal killer. If I have to deal with that, why not just load up XP and Office, they'd be so similar, so why not?

In short, I thought the point was choice.

Posted by Colleen on August 05, 2009 at 11:45 PM CEST #

Can't you folks make this a separate project for those who want a ribbon-style UI? I have to use Office 2007 at work. I hate it! It took time to relearn the UI and it doesn't make anything easier to use for me. Some people like it, I know, but I can't see that it improves the usability of Office a bit. I use OOo at home and I don't want that awful ribbon UI on my OOo.

Posted by Virginia on August 05, 2009 at 11:49 PM CEST #

For the love of all that is holy, please don't implement this. The reason that I use OO instead of MS Office is that the UI is easy to use and familiar.

Posted by Todd on August 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM CEST #

I have way too much screen space on my 7" netbook screen. With the new MS-clone Ribbon interface, I will be able to see one whole line of text on my screen at a time, if I'm lucky.

Posted by George on August 05, 2009 at 11:58 PM CEST #

Optional Please. I'd actually prefer it be an optional "toolbar" that can be snapped to the sides of the screen and provide a bit more innovation than just copying MSOffice.

Posted by Andir on August 06, 2009 at 12:04 AM CEST #

I love ribbon, and I'm excited OOo will be adding ribbon as well -- it means I can go back to using OOo.

If you wanted to go even further, there are two places where I think a lot of progress can be made:

The first is logical styles. For example, if you want a base default style, and then derived styles, and rippling changes and so on -- all of this is very irritating work, very strange work (trying to decipher "Why did it space the text like that?", and to learn the jargon of the user interface,) and often times I just plain give up on styles and do things manually.

If you could figure out a powerful and intuitive interface for working with styles, it'd make an incredible difference -- for me, at least.

The second is logical page structures. For example, if you want to write a book, and you want chapters, and alternating page numbers, except not on pages 1 & 2, and if you want multiple columns on these pages but not on those pages, etc.,.

All of this is very hard to manage, with present day interfaces in all products. But if it could somehow be made easier to treat the whole document as series of sections and special pages, -- it could make a huge difference.

Posted by LionKimbro on August 06, 2009 at 12:05 AM CEST #

"The ribbon is for absolute morons. In fact I use OpenOffice at work because they moved to Office 2007 and I just can't stand that STUPID interface for idiots."

I agree completely. I have to use the #$%@#$%#$% MS Office ribbon interface at work, and I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it. If the new OpenOffice adopts this interface, I won't upgrade. I will switch to something else.

Posted by Thorn on August 06, 2009 at 12:07 AM CEST #

I hate the 2007 stuff - don't go there!

Posted by Sean on August 06, 2009 at 12:08 AM CEST #

Do you guys have any idea how big of a negative impact the MS Office UI has had on take up of 2007?
Users want to focus on their document not the applications huge waste of space UI.
Please focus on other areas instead.
If you want to copy Ms, do a full Office 2003 compatible UI option - that will attract far more switchers than the 2007 one (which 80% of users dislike or hate).

Posted by Ribbon Lover on August 06, 2009 at 12:08 AM CEST #

I can't believe such a wonderful software suite would do something so short-sighted. One of the reasons I've avoided using the new MSO suite/Windows offerings is because of the difficult and confusing UI. Why not make the UI completely gesture-controlled? How about a UI that reads blinks from a mandatory webcam to issue commands? I've been using OO.o for years and now I may have to look for an alternative. Shame on you, Sun.

Posted by Rob on August 06, 2009 at 12:13 AM CEST #

STUPID!

Is this just idiot fanboys changing for changes sake, like the KDE4?

Posted by Marvelous on August 06, 2009 at 12:23 AM CEST #

This is just baldfaced stupidity.

Nobody who has windows like this stupid UI.

Why are people trying to destroy the Linux user experience with this garbage?

Look at the backlash against the retarded changes Mozilla made to FireFox3's user interface.

I hope people wake up and stop trying to emulate the garbage that Microsoft shovels out to everyone.

DON'T USE THIS HORRIBLE INTERFACE!!!!

Posted by John S on August 06, 2009 at 12:28 AM CEST #

This whole discussion reminds me of the old Lotus 123 v. Borland Quatro Pro debate from 10+ years ago. In that case, Borland had an option called 123-mode where the user interface mimicked the Lotus 123 interface. That made it easier for 123 users to switch to Quatro Pro. However, if you wanted the more logically laid out Borland interface, you could have it. So if the user is given a choice, I'm okay with the ribbon addition, even though I have no desire to use it myself. I intensely dislike the ribbon on Word/Excel/PPT 2007 that I have to use at work.

Having said that, I would like OOo better if it had the menu structure laid out more logically (meaning differently from Word). As some people said: be yourself. OOo has the potential to be better than M$ -- and it wouldn't be that hard to be better because Office is so bad. How long will it take OOo to realize that just because Microsoft has a monopoly doesn't mean they make good software?

Seriously, if OOo doesn't feel confident about its own UI development capabilities, please, Please, PLEASE copy another UI that is better than Office. Say... earlier versions of WordPerfect? Scriviner on OS X is useful too. Just something/anything other than Office. There is an entire market out that that is frustrated with Office. Remember, Microsoft is only good at manipulating monopolies, not writing software.

Some historical facts are relevant here. WordPerfect went down the same do-whatever-Word-does route and has suffered accordingly. Lawyers stuck with WordPerfect over Word because of the former's better UI. Only later did Corel start adopting too many of Word's UI quirks and annoyances just for commonality sake, and when they did so it gave the IT guys the argument that WordPerfect was just as bad as Word so "we can now standardize on Word." Corel has paid the price. OOo should learn from that mistake.

For this lawyer (and we're consumate wordsmiths), WordPerfect 8.1 was the best. It's been downhill from there.

I had hoped that OOo would buck the trend because it has more artistic license being an open source application. I'm still waiting for that hope to be fulfilled.

Posted by Ron on August 06, 2009 at 12:29 AM CEST #

Hi guys, please correct your ntp time (not the fool day)

Posted by 213.49.253.53 on August 06, 2009 at 12:29 AM CEST #

Oh man - let me add to the chorus of opposition to this plan! The ribbon interface just plain sucks, and the only reason for it's uptake is because Office is foisted on most people in the business world. Ugh.

Posted by Chris Sherlock on August 06, 2009 at 12:30 AM CEST #

Many of my clients have switched from MS office to Open office because of the office 2007 interface having such a huge learning curve - business doesn't like unnecessary change! If you do implement it, make it a "skin" or optional interface and don't enable it by default. Is it good to have an interface that is easy to transition to from MS - yes; should it be enabled by default just because MS does it that way - heck no!

Posted by Kevin Hart on August 06, 2009 at 12:46 AM CEST #

I have to agree with the sentiment that I don't like the ribbon interface. As an IT support person I spend a lot of time getting complaints from people moved to MS Office 2007. But it's not the usual set of complaints from the change that happens all the time in IT. It doesn't seem to be getting better over time. My personal theory is that be removing language from the interface it limits many people's ease of learning. Instead of learning with language (either by words or keyboard commands) people are forced to memorize pictures and there relative placement in fairly plain geographic landscape.

If people like this sort of UI, then please offer it as an option. I think it would be short sighted to offer this as the only or the default interface. To be less politic, I prefer to use interfaces that allow me to express complex thoughts not interfaces that reduce me to "pointing and grunting".

Posted by Anonymous Coward on August 06, 2009 at 12:52 AM CEST #

This is way better than the menu system! I use office 2007 and have grown to prefer this to the menu hell of previous offices; Especially the ever changing menus where items would hide themselves if they were not used.

Posted by Jesse Wagner on August 06, 2009 at 12:57 AM CEST #

The new interface appears uglier than MS's Ribbon and if it is the only interface, OO will cease to be a real alternative.

Consider focusing your precious time in making OO faster. God knows that is the biggest problem I have found.

Posted by Matt on August 06, 2009 at 12:57 AM CEST #

This is like supermarket reorganization. Some marketing guy has determined that if they put all stuff in a completely different place every few years, people will buy more while looking for stuff they used to be able to find or for whatever other reason, I don't know.

I'm just annoyed my shopping takes longer.

Don't be idiots like that and improve on functionality and make small step by step improvements to the UI. Complete redesigns are nice for the developers to create and nice to show off with, but don't actually help anyone.

Posted by 86.93.104.99 on August 06, 2009 at 01:08 AM CEST #

Microsoft is not famous for creating great interfaces; not even for successfully copying great interfaces, so why imitate Microsoft?

I remember the thing that made me a StarOffice user (back in the 5.2 era): I was able to find 95% of the needed menu option using the right-click.

Posted by George Iacob on August 06, 2009 at 01:11 AM CEST #

The OpenOffice UI can definitely use some improvements. I am glad to see people are looking in ways to improve the UI.

However, nothing in this demo is any sort of an improvement over the existing UI.

Millions of people have not upgraded to MS Office 2007 because of the broken interface in it. This seems to be mostly an attempt to emulate the problems with the MS Office 2007 interface.

Please put some real thought into the UI design before making any change.

Posted by John on August 06, 2009 at 01:14 AM CEST #

Most computer screens are now widescreen. Most papers are taller than wider.

Why the hell would someone throw away precious screen HEIGHT, when we have plenty of useless width in our disposal?

Posted by TN on August 06, 2009 at 01:15 AM CEST #

This is an excellent idea. The ribbon interface in Office2k7 takes awhile to get used to, but is quite visually intuitive after a short learning curve.

Posted by df on August 06, 2009 at 01:29 AM CEST #

This is _Terrible_, please tell me this is a joke. No one likes the Office 2007 ribbon for more than the most menial of tasks and that's even a stretch. Why in the world would a promising office suite alternative try to copy one of the most maligned "features" of Office 2007? There is NO need to imitate Microsoft to become a true alternative. Please design a truly innovative interface, not this pseudo Ribbon-like drivel.

Posted by Sean on August 06, 2009 at 01:35 AM CEST #

It's very sad to see OpenOffice going this direction. Part of the reason I enjoy OO is its much easier to use than MS's product. If this UI is fortelling the future, that advantage may soon disappear.

Posted by 74.78.109.10 on August 06, 2009 at 01:36 AM CEST #

Please do not implement this.

There are several problems, both visual and functional with this interface.

From a visual perspective, two problems stand out.

1. Too much vertical screen real estate is used. I had a great deal of difficulty focusing on the document rather than the controls.

2. Conversely, buttons do not provide enough screen real estate to make the operations clear. The UI must rely on popup dialogue boxes or a user memorizing icons (plus the context) in order to figure out what is going on.

From an operational standpoint, the entire concept of task-based organization rather than functional organization of an UI breaks horribly for edge cases.

I have certain work flow patterns that I find efficient when creating documents. This work flow pattern fits the way I write, and allows me to concentrate on content.

A functional UI organization allows me to categorize commands I need to use during document creation. Once I understand where the commands are (or the key sequences I need for those commands), I can commit them to muscle memory and just write.

The more consistent an interface is, and the more accurate the taxonomy is, the easier it is to commit actions to muscle memory. This improves productivity. Apple is a master at this.

A ribbon-based interface appears to be task oriented rather than functional oriented. While this relieves the average user of coming up with an efficient way to create content, it does so at the expense of constraining the user to a certain work flow.

This is bad for those people who do not process information and tasks in a survey-derived average manner. The overall user interface will be less efficient for them, requiring extensive muscle memory and cognitive retraining. In addition, the ribbon interface is not echoed throughout the windowing system, so the user will be forced to context switch when moving from application to interacting with the OS.

I understand there are challenges in putting more and more functionality in a program, and providing clear, unambiguous access to that functionality.

Two dimensional menus have limitations in both screen real estate and what the user is comfortably able to read.

Three dimensional menus (for example, using hyperlinks) will leave a screen cluttered with unused windows. Gnome's Nautilus (in standard configuration) suffers from this.

If the direction is towards a reduction of clutter, I would like to recommend the following.

1. Keep functionality that is common across all modes of document preparation in the menus.

2. Make specific mode functionality available via palettes

3. Allow those palettes to float or dock. If docked, allow them to minimize to a side strip. If floating, allow them to minimize to the OS's windowing system.

4. Concentrate on horizontal screen space for placement.

5. Document content creation should have central and undivided focus.

6. Allow the palettes to be customized for those of us who do not follow the survey-standard work flow.

While NetBeans and Jedit are not perfect examples of these ideas, they do provide some good ways to balance clutter versus function.

Posted by Mark on August 06, 2009 at 01:47 AM CEST #

I like the ribbon-like interface since it makes options easily accessible without using menus; but for those times when you want to type a plain-text paper and hardly need any formatting options, please make it so that the bar can be easily collapsed/hidden to save screen space and have lessen distractions.

Posted by Tyler on August 06, 2009 at 01:47 AM CEST #

If you want to enhance usability, perhaps design a plan around visualizing keyboard shortcuts (so people can learn them easier because of some visual feedback), or improving the mouse menus in some way. Or do a search function for program functions and program function categories, so that they may be searched and found.

Ribbon isn't such a good improvement, and frequently none at all for the more frequent users of office software. It doesn't work when your most needed functions are the ones you can use fastest on the keyboard or right-click mouse menu anyhow. It just reduces the amount of icons you can immediately click, out of the ones you do NOT remember the shortcut for. It makes you browse for the function you were looking for, having to use multiple clicks. But a hierarchic, purely text-based menu would be actually faster for this purpose.

Look at how for instance the KDE4 menu is done, that's how accessing functions is really made faster while reducing the need as far as how much you need to remember about either how an icon looks, where it is found, or how the related program is called as opposed to other systems of access, all while not impeding some of the fastest ways to browse for functions or invoking programs directly. Ribbon-like interfaces don't do many of these things well - they have you move the mouse much more when you want to access functions, I can't see a good way to do searches (because icon-name-description does NOT display in there), ...

Posted by Rad on August 06, 2009 at 01:49 AM CEST #

I for one am glad to see this happening - after using Word since version 2.0 and watching it get more and more ugly and complicated, the Ribbon was a user interface innovation that actually made Word so much easier to use, I actually switched back to it from OpenOffice.org Writer. As for generating PowerPoints, I can't even get my head around Impress anymore.

It is not about imitation but about providing simply a better user interface paradigm for users. The most common tasks are present right in front of you and not hidden in a cluttered, complex set of huge menus.

It may be ideologically disappointing for OpenOffice to use much the same solution (and Microsoft have a patent on it so I hope Sun etc. have adequately worked around this fact if they needed to) but it remains to be seen what a better solution actually is. Lets remember that the SOLE reason OpenOffice has gained traction is that it is free and feature-equivalent. To spend a couple of years testing out brand new UI concepts, some of which may completely fail and drive away users (as Word did around Office 97 for me) would be an absolute disaster.

I don't see anyone complaining that Firefox picked up the integrated back/forward button from other browsers, or the "type in the URL bar to search" feature which has been implemented even in some of the most obscure browsers on even more obscure platforms for many years. In fact these are user interface innovations that are simply BETTER than the current way. They may not be unique, but better is nearly always more desirable than unique (see the iPhone - not a unique product as Smartphones have been around for years, but BETTER than any other Smartphone..)

Posted by Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc. on August 06, 2009 at 01:51 AM CEST #

I've been using Office for a long time, and Office 2007 since it was released. I don't just use Outlook and simple Word docs; I do 100 page technical documentation with embedded documents, Indexes, references, etc.

I didn't like the Ribbon UI at first, but you know, I've been using it for a couple years now and it works. It simplifies things a lot, and puts more functions where you expect to find them instead of buried in sub-sub-menus.

Maybe Microsoft has traditionally put out some sub-par software but their user interfaces have been good for the most part. I like the Windows UI and the O2k7 UI is good too. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean it sucks, so get over it.

If OpenOffice adopts a similar system, I won't hate it at all.

Posted by Joseph Jamieson on August 06, 2009 at 02:16 AM CEST #

Why not try something MSFT didn't: provide the new UI as an OPTION as well as the current menu + toolbars. That is, make the UI choice an option which could be set at OOo launch. If you must, cease development on the current menu + toolbars UI, but leave it in the code base.

There are a lot of people who can't stand MSO's ribbon UI. Why alienate them if you don't have to?

Posted by Harlan Grove on August 06, 2009 at 02:34 AM CEST #

I very much would like to see a menu interface that places tools on the left/right side of the page/screen by default or as an option. Wide screen monitors are very common this days and taking space up on top or bottom seems silly at this point. I would rather see more of the document I'm working on. So if ribbon type interface could be optimized to be used on a side of the document that would great.

Posted by Vitali Otavine on August 06, 2009 at 02:37 AM CEST #

By all means implement this. However you need to provide the ability to use 'classic' style menus.

I prefer the current style of menus in openoffice and think that Microsoft's ribbon menus are terrible.

However, for the sake of encouraging more people to convert to open office I think you should still include ribbon menus but still retain functionality for normal menus.

Posted by Andrew on August 06, 2009 at 02:47 AM CEST #

Here are my earlier comments boiled down.

If you're writing a document authoring IDE, or a calculation IDE, or a data manipulation IDE, or a presentation IDE, or a drawing IDE, then maybe the UI should take lessons from the IDE world.

Most of the complaints I've seen about IDEs center around performance, not finding functionality.

Don't force the users into a work flow box. Come up with a standard work flow, but then allow the users to customize as they see fit.

Let the content be the attention-grabbing portion of the UI. Make the functionality accessible but out of the way. Floating windows, docking windows, or palettes are all good models. Have the IDE remember how you have your environment set up between uses. Give the IDE a "reset to factory defaults" for when things get really scrambled.

Don't create another sheet of paper surrounded by drawers (menus) or colored boxes (ribbons with collections of unclear icons).

Maybe it's time to move beyond the "piece of paper" model for office suites.

Posted by Mark on August 06, 2009 at 02:57 AM CEST #

I'm using OpenOffice on Linux, mainly the Calc spreadsheet. If these ribbons were introduced in the manner shown in the screenshot I would definitely switch to a different program.

If you insist on having ribbons, at least put them at the side of the window. I have the panel on the side of my desktop so that I can use the full vertical extent of the screen for applications.

Why do we use these office programs? We use them to create documents. The most important thing is the document, much of which will be obscured by the ghastly ribbon menus in your new design. I don't want to look at your menus and icons, I want to see the document I'm working on.

Choose a design that maximises the space available for viewing documents. Given the prevalence of widescreen monitors these days such a design would clearly have the icons on the side of the window. Don't blindly copy Microsoft.

You'd be better off spending your time trying to improve the speed of OpenOffice, which is still rather sluggish.

Posted by Simon on August 06, 2009 at 03:09 AM CEST #

Well I think that is fairly conclusive. Don't waste your time on this as its simply not what people want.

Posted by Alex on August 06, 2009 at 03:11 AM CEST #

It would better to see something more innovative than trying to be a copycat of Microsoft, especially if there's so much opportunity to improve it. Ofcourse it's far too easy to make just some comment without some commitment. If you need a better design, you have my emailaddress and I will gladly available for a better design. I hope you understand my best intentions behind my comment.

Glad to be of service and regards,

Simon

Posted by Simon Asselbergs on August 06, 2009 at 03:11 AM CEST #

Don't! You should continue improving the current interface because it's familiar to everyone using MS Office pre-2007. If you change it, you will upset your current users and disorient everyone trying to migrate from MS Office.
So... Don't do it!

Posted by Gustavo on August 06, 2009 at 03:19 AM CEST #

It's unbelievable, some of the people posting here.

We get it. You hate Microsoft. WE GET IT.

I believe there's no sense in doing something different just because it's not the same. Meaning, if something out there is a GOOD idea, use it! Don't try to be different just to BE different.

Microsoft, if nothing else, is very thorough when it comes to user interfaces. They do a lot of research and spend a lot of money on it. It's unlikely that some random guy on some comment with poor English is going to help you more than taking queues from Microsoft.

I think the "ribbon UI" works. You don't have to make it an exact copy, but it's really just an evolution of the existing icon bars by putting them into categories and moving things out of the tangle of drop-down menus and settings tabs.

I hope OpenOffice does something new to the interface soon because although I really like the software, it feels dated compared to new UI design we've been seeing from Apple, Microsoft, and others in the past couple years.

Posted by Joseph Jamieson on August 06, 2009 at 03:24 AM CEST #

Please make it optional, for Office07 refugees and the 1% users that actually like such innovation.

UI changes in proprietary software are usually aimed at raising barriers and avoid switching to the competition.

When OSS has reverse engineered MS filesystems, or office formats, MS changed them.
When you adopt the ribbon, MS will change to something else, and you will devote resources to play catch-up in software patents minefield.

** Do not want **

Posted by Marcello on August 06, 2009 at 03:37 AM CEST #

Can't open source developers come up with an original idea?

Posted by 200.180.190.46 on August 06, 2009 at 03:47 AM CEST #

I really think that OpenOffice needs to stop trying to /be/ Microsoft Office. It needs to stop trying to cater to Microsoft Office users, and stop trying to steal its market share. Open Source Software isn't about that. It's about creating a good product, and about fostering innovation. No innovation will come of simply copying another programs UI. If the ribbon /really/ is the best UI, then great, let's use it, but seriously, if a new interface is to be created, how about starting from the ground up.

Posted by Eric on August 06, 2009 at 03:51 AM CEST #

MSOffice's ribbon is nothing but a pain. Please at least include an option to use the old, usable interface. I don't suggest you "hire designers" or "try to come up with your own new interface". The old one works just fine, please don't spend resources trying to "improve" it to the point of unusability.

Posted by Jeff Cooper on August 06, 2009 at 03:59 AM CEST #

I find the ribbon toolbar in Office 2007 unbearable, and in Access I find it so confusing I don't even use it anymore. I don't care for it in Outlook either, so I've added everything back on to the quick access toolbar and minimized the ribbon.

Like others have asked, if implemented, please allow the user to choose that or the good old toolbar.

Posted by Keith on August 06, 2009 at 04:05 AM CEST #

If you read on why Microsoft developed/adopted the ribbon UI, (see http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2008/03/12/the-story-of-the-ribbon.aspx) you should pay attention to one of the key statistics about mid-period Word (e.g., Word 97 and 2000). According to Microsoft's own research, users were only using 5% of the features of the application. That should have been their first clue -- Word was good enough as it was. They didn't have to make it more complicated, but they did because Microsoft had to ship new versions, and more features were the alleged reason for spending on the new version. Eventually, the number of features made the old menu interface unwieldy. However, instead of cutting out the unused features, they had to adopt a kluge -- the ribbon, in order to access all the unused features.

OOo doesn't have to obey Microsoft's business model. It can do things that Microsoft cannot. It can make a simpler, more easy-to-use productivity suite that has features modularized so that users only load/access what they need. That would eliminate the need for something like the ribbon, and would make OOo less bloated and less resource intensive so that it works better on the new netbooks everyone is buying.

In short, OOo, because it is an open source project, can avoid the mistakes prompted by Microsoft's monopolistic business model.

Posted by Ron on August 06, 2009 at 04:13 AM CEST #

Keith says: "I don't care for it in Outlook either, so I've added everything back on to the quick access toolbar and minimized the ribbon."

Outlook only uses it when you're composing an e-mail. There were never a lot of options on the compose window, so the Ribbon really doesn't affect the usability at all.

I've found that I have been using more features of the Office programs than I did in previous versions because they're all right there in front of your face.

And, anyone that says they can't "figure it out" or it "confuses" them is full of shit or has never used a computer before. It's not like it's that much different than the icon bars used to be. Office XP was the worst of all of them with dozens of icons in row after row.. you'd spend half your time hovering over them to find out what they do. Office 2003 was the same but the default just put fewer toolbars up on the screen.

Posted by Joseph Jamieson on August 06, 2009 at 04:22 AM CEST #

looking at that picture its even worse than the microsoft ribbon

Posted by Jacob on August 06, 2009 at 04:25 AM CEST #

Any OOo developer reading this must feel depressingly underappreciated. To them, I say that I along with many other users appreciate your dedication and constant work on this project. Thank you. That being said, I would also like to encourage them to make design decisions like this for the right reasons, and I don't believe that copying Microsoft, or being 'Microsoft compatible' is the right reason.

Posted by Eric on August 06, 2009 at 04:35 AM CEST #

I agree - do it for the right reason. And if you speak with anyone that spent any reasonable amount of time with Office 2007, they'd tell you they like the UI improvements and want to see them in more applications.

It doesn't have to be an exact copy (which might not even be allowed anyhow) but the idea of putting more commonly used tools in plain view, and doing away with the traditional File/Edit/View menus is not a bad idea for a word processor or spreadsheet application.

Posted by Joseph Jamieson on August 06, 2009 at 05:04 AM CEST #

I have posted UI enhancement requests that haven't been acted on for a year - simple ones like don't let the Find window cover what you find, or allow autocomplete dictionary loading from a remote url.

The presentation above is typical of hackers who don't understand user experience at all. If you absolutely must make a ribbon, show what it could look like when finished, as a mockup made with Gimp, etc. which looks at least as good as Office. It might be useful. Personally I would want a toggle to turn it off or minimize it to a little icon in the upper frame because it will use up scant vertical workspace on my 15" laptop.

Here is a killer functional improvement that would earn my unending love. I'm not going to bother inputting it into the issue tracker at this time. Office 2007 breaks compatibility with 2003 regarding color pallette so you can make a presentation in 2007 that uses colors which do not show up when using Office 2003. I would like a tool that helps me fix this by making an editable color conversion map that can be automatically applied. I don't even know if OOo can handle 2007 colors yet though.

Posted by Matt Rosin on August 06, 2009 at 05:24 AM CEST #

There are some nice improvements to the UI in the demo. The 'ribbon' is definitely not an improvement in any way.

The ribbon is a huge step backwards that makes doing common tasks more difficult. Now you need to navigate through multiple cluttered toolbars to do a task that in the current version you could do with a single click in the toolbar.

The overall result in a more cluttered, complex and user unfriendly interface that reduces user productivity and hogs precious screen real estate.

As a long time user of OO/State Office I am trying to decide which office suite I will switch to, if this abomination of a UI gets incorporated into the otherwise great OpenOffice.

Posted by John on August 06, 2009 at 05:25 AM CEST #

I really like the scrolling toolbar! if you could combine that with some neat animations moving between the UI "categories" it looks much better that the ribbon style. I see here that a lot of people are resistant to change, I too was when they first rolled out MSO 2007 at work but after a few weeks I was really enjoying the experience. Thanks for the prototype btw, its great to see what's coming.

Posted by che kristo on August 06, 2009 at 05:39 AM CEST #

One of the things I don't like about this UI besides the absolutely horrible ribbon thing is all the unnecessary and useful animations that only result in slower performance.

I like the slide zoom feature, but it doesn't need to waste so many CPU cycles.

I would really like to see all these obnoxious animations removed from the interface. It's a waste of time to code them and it's a waste of resources to run them.

If people want superfluous animations, then go play a game or run glxgears.

Posted by John S on August 06, 2009 at 05:47 AM CEST #

Um, great! Now I will have even less space to actually see my documents on my 1280 x 800 monitor! I'm so glad the OO UI will continue to waste all the space on either side of my document, and instead take up more of the sparse vertical pixels I have.

Maybe square monitors will make a come back? And square Plasma and LCD TVs?

Sad, very sad. Seems no one actually though this out at all, instead, they just copied another bad idea from MS!

Is there no one creative or forward thinking at Sun (or among the many OO developers worldwide) who can come up with the next big thing in UI design instead of trying 'catch-up' to bad ideas from other companies?

Posted by Gothicawakening on August 06, 2009 at 06:03 AM CEST #

I have to admit I do like some aspects of the "ribbon" idea, and am very comfortable using it, but honestly I'd rather see OOo do something along the line of IBM Lotus Symphony and use the side, or have an option to place all the buttons and tools along the side. It seems to me that more and more people have wide screen monitors (well at least I do, and the friends/co-workers I know) and there is a lot of wasted space down the sides of documents. Lastly I wish OpenOffice would implement TAB browsing for documents, I hate having a new window for every document.

Posted by dar on August 06, 2009 at 06:16 AM CEST #

I am a linux user and agree with Linus Torvalds that MS hatred is a disease.

I think people are often resistant to change but as complexity increase the ui must change and microsoft has researched this a great deal. This is a necessary step in the evolution of oo but I do like the ideas of allowing the choice of classic mode, allowing positioning at the top or side for wide screen and the ability to customize the ui. There are many folks out there who would appreciate a more simple, less cluttered interface. What about a mode switch ie. Simple, Classic, Modern. I can imagine brain storming a text document in Simple mode so that the interface doesn't get in the way of basic writing, then switching to modern mode to make it look good or add content.

You are doing a great job and it is very much appreciated. Keep up the good work.

Posted by Ben Johnston on August 06, 2009 at 06:42 AM CEST #

Please, please, please do not do this !

Posted by Paul Smith on August 06, 2009 at 06:56 AM CEST #

Well there is one reason that I stopped using MS-Office newer than 2003, they put in this ribbon stuff. Microsoft like a lot of software companies have not mastered some of the more fundamental concepts of handling endusers. You don't train endusers for more than 10 years to use menus extra and then suddenly remove them ... dumb dumb dumb ... you need to ween the users slowly onto the new interface style. Microsoft has some great ideas, as well as some not so great execution of those ideas.
One of the main reasons I use OpenOffice right now, is the lack of Ribbon interface. I just don't like the interface. I would urge the OpenOffice development team to heed my warning and don't repeat Microsoft's mistake of a sudden change. If you want to move people to a new interface, do it slowly, otherwise ... they'll rebel ....

Posted by Simon on August 06, 2009 at 07:40 AM CEST #

After successfully advocating OO with our clients we would loose our point. Because OO hasn't got the ribbons interface of O2K7 with its steep learning curve and initially strange handling. People having used office products for a long time will adapt more easily to the current OO-UI than MS-Ribbons.

Please reconsider the need for such an imitation of MS-Office.

Posted by Peter on August 06, 2009 at 07:53 AM CEST #

The new OO interface is HORRIBLE!

Posted by The new OO interface is HORRIBLE! on August 06, 2009 at 08:02 AM CEST #

Please do NOT implement this! It looks ugly, and in MS Office the Ribbon is really NOT userfriendly. Whenever i have to use an application of the MS Office suite 2007 it takes me ages to find the feature i'm looking for.

Posted by teranex on August 06, 2009 at 08:34 AM CEST #

I've worked with the ribbon UI for Microsoft Office 2k7 and it fits like a glove. The more you use it, the more it makes sense. It exposes a lot of features previously hidden in the depths of menus and sub-menus.

As far as exposing features, this is great. As far as a learning curve for users, make sure that the previous menus and settings can be re-enabled.

I took a shot at your web-start preview, it works good. Far better than Impress as is. A bit grey. I'm running Ubuntu 9.10.

What I maybe suggest is that you combine elements of ribbon (like you've done, and not a high fidelity copy like //flamingo.dev.java.net/ ) and maybe use clutter / opengl in doing a fish-eye (e.g. MacOSX dock) effect for the "tabs" on mouse hover, so that the tabs only show when you need them. A nice transparent effect will also be nice. All this should be configurable, otherwise you'll have the "you are wasting CPU cycles" nazis will be on you.

And burn me, I like eye candy. That is why people started buying Macs in the first place.

Posted by mjvn on August 06, 2009 at 08:55 AM CEST #

Hello? Remember, this is office PRODUCTIVITY software. We're trying to get things done, not spend 20 minutes playing hide-and-seek with the damn Print button. People are leaving Office 2007 and going to OO.o, __precisely__ because OO does NOT have a ribbon. The ribbon is an actively user-hostile interface. (Unless that's what you want, of course).

Posted by Piskvor on August 06, 2009 at 09:15 AM CEST #

If you're copying the Ribbon, then at least do that propperly. Microsoft, for once, did things rights and their new control is usable. Unlike that horrible horror you created.

Why is still the menu on top? Why the toolbar icons on bottom?

This just does not feel right.

Posted by Vorkronor on August 06, 2009 at 09:39 AM CEST #

First, I'd say that I'm not sure ribbons are the way to go. In my opinion it's a waste of space — especially the vertical space here. With the current trend for widescreens (and not all widescreens* are 19+ inch, think about laptops, it is common to have 1280x800 or even less on netbooks), it has become extremely precious, so you should at least give an option to have the ribbon on a side rather than on the top. Otherwise, the working space left for the page or slide is ridiculously small on smaller screens.

Some additional comments:
- scrolling toolbar variants are probably more intuitive, that is, you can "see" if you must go to the left or right, compared to tabbed toolbars.
- Fixed label toolbars are interresting as they give access to the most used functions. Not sure if pdf export is one of them (especially with the current state of pdf export which, for me, implies the use of a virtual PDF printer most of the time), but that can be precised later. In a sense, it could be a compromise between the ribbon UI and the traditional one.
- Buttons are so big… does anybody really requires such a big "paste" button? On a small laptop screen it is a awful waste of space.
- In the "Insert" or "Design" tabs, there is about 50px "wasted" below the buttons because of the "start" tab having a higher content. All the vertical spacings must be matched to have a coherent interface and an optimal filling of the space.
- Not sure the "normal"/"sorter"... buttons on the bottom are really needed… why not put them all on the top panel (which must be on the side anyway)? Again it's a terrible waste of vertical space, just for 3 buttons and one slider.
- Fixed label toolbar variant 3 is probably my favorite design (you probably already understood why: it saves that treasured concept that is called working space). However, for this function be really useful I think it should retract as soon as one clicks outside of it, rather than having to click on the label again.

I would recommend the future developments being done on 13 or 14' laptops without a mouse (that is, using the laptop's touchpad), and with real-case small-font scenarios. Developers must really understand that space is not just an abstract undocumented concept that can be dealt with like a programming object. Give them an 11 or 12' laptop for a week or two, and they will certainly understand what people really need: a crafted and carefully thought-out utilization of every pixel on the screen, and especially in order to make the maximum vertical space usable for the text.

Maybe there should even be two UIs, one for large desktop screen, and one for smaller laptops? And keeping the old classic UI would be a good idea, too.

*I prefer calling them lowscreen, which is just as half-true as the traditional misleading marketing speech

Posted by xavier robin on August 06, 2009 at 10:18 AM CEST #

PLEASE do not do this. I cannot express the depth of my loathing for the MS ribbon. It is perhaps the single worst design feature that MS have ever come up with - and that's saying something, in a history of awfulness.

Even though I've been using Office 07 for months now (my office won't fully support OOo) I still probably lose 10-20 minutes a day while I swear at this godawful interface from hell.

Change does not always equal progress.

Posted by Mikey on August 06, 2009 at 10:22 AM CEST #

Finally! The lack of updated editing control in OpenOffice is one of the (few) reasons holding us back from a wide scale deployment. The ribbon in Office is a fantastic concept, and absolutely ads to it's useability, once you've learned the new concepts.

Posted by Jonathan Puddle on August 06, 2009 at 10:25 AM CEST #

Microsoft-bashing or no, the Ribbon interface has too many things wrong with it.

I understand it exposes functionality that some people might not have previously known or thought about. But it also buries other functionality in places where no human would ever guess to find it - except the guys developing the UI. Don't do this in whatever solution you eventually design; if I can't intuit where something I use every day might be, then it's broken.

And, whatever you do, please change its screen real estate. Dockable toolbars, vertical orientation - anything except something that's eating up my already limited vertical screen space. Even spreadsheets, which tend to be more horizontally oriented, can't afford to lose the huge chunk of space eaten by a ribbon. If you do wind up with a ribbon, try it on the side, with accordion tabs a la Outlook.

Posted by Phoenix Rising on August 06, 2009 at 10:29 AM CEST #

A 21st century UI with H.U.G.E. CUT, COPY and PASTE buttons?

Meh.

Posted by Sudo on August 06, 2009 at 10:43 AM CEST #

OMG!!

Did some of you read the article at all or are you all soo dumb all you could manage was look at the pretty pictures???

Yes I will agree the interface looks crap but get this people ITS A PROTOTYPE!!!!! This mean they are only getting a feel for what the final product will be like and to test its functionality who knows they may drop the idea in the end.

For all you open source fan boys / MS haters have you seen Mozilla’s concept designs for Firefox 3.7+ why aren’t you whining like babies to them cos "it looks too much like M$ IE with all that glass look"

For all you ribbon naysayers out there. it is actually a good concept and idea and I can tell from some of the comments that most of you looked at it saw that you didn't have any common sense as you couldn't find what you wanted and threw a hissy fit and went back to whatever you used previously and wrapped it around you like a nice cosy security blanket.

It is after all in human nature to be resistant to change and of all the people who are supposed to be accepting of it we "the IT community" should be the least resistant. Besides your all meant to be soo "l33t" and techy that it shouldn't bother you if it's different cos let’s face it you should at least know all the keyboards shortcuts for starters cos let’s face it once I found what I was after in those crappy menus I learnt it's keyboard shortcut pretty sharpish so I wouldn't have to traverse submenu after submenu. And even if you don't then you should be "skilled" enough to be able to work out where what you want is in a very short period of time.

People like you are the reason why Linux has never made it big and the reason why there will if you carry on like this never be a "year of the Linux desktop" you lot dream about. The main reason for that is you hold are holding it back cos you don’t want it to change even if it is for the better

I for one say good on you Sun. it sounds like you’re adopting the right methods and making the right move to pull more users away from MS and Office 2007.

I think Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw put it best "fans are whiny little dipsh**s who will never give you credit for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their tremulous little voices the happier you'll be!!!"

Posted by mikeycl on August 06, 2009 at 10:48 AM CEST #

My biggest gripe with the ribbon interface is it's lack of customizability. If they do it, they need to make it fully customizable and able to be placed on any edge of the window; otherwise, i'll stick with my regular customizable toolbars.

Posted by Dave on August 06, 2009 at 11:21 AM CEST #

Some have said that we shouldn't judge what we see here too hard because it is only a prototype. While that is true, the reason to do a prototype is to show at least one aspect of of what is being prototype to an extend that allows making some informed decision. From the rather vague descriptions in the post and presentation it is rather hard to tell which aspect it is we should be judging. So please be more specific: what are you trying to show. What parts of the prototype do you want feedback on. Give us something to wor with... otherwise you won't get any usefull feedback.

Posted by AgentX on August 06, 2009 at 11:50 AM CEST #

I think it's nice to think about this. I guess a lot of average users find it better and as long as you don't kill the traditional menu, it's fine. What I would like to see is a vertical ribbon that is on the left or right side. The idea of tabbed regions could be transformed to a "accordeon" layout, where two or three regions are partially expanded and expose the most often used actions. clicking on the header of one expands the region, showing even more. This all adapts to the screen hight and there are flow-outs if there is not enough space.

Posted by mysteron on August 06, 2009 at 12:17 PM CEST #

why not making it semitransparent-e.g. like
http://z.about.com/d/ipod/1/0/V/3/-/-/iphone_gallery_7.jpg

that way you dont loose to much space with ribbon...

Posted by aldur on August 06, 2009 at 12:23 PM CEST #

@mikeycl - lets face it, nobody is complaining about Firefox because it doesn't do half of what an office product needs to do. If Firefox needed so many features, then I'm sure there would be a lot of complaints.

Posted by Chris Sherlock on August 06, 2009 at 12:42 PM CEST #

Why don't you try to get a leaner OOo instead of playing around with the UI? OOo is bloated and sucks up a huge amount of resources. Debug it, profile it, whatever just make it leaner, faster and less resource hungry. Once you get THAT done, you can move onto the UI.

Posted by Pisa on August 06, 2009 at 12:48 PM CEST #

I know some people who don't understand how paragraph styles are linked to document structure and they don't want to have it explained to them either. They will use character formating for headlines, manually create tables of content and even do page numbering manually. They create a huge mess and I found that after helping them to clean it up (they can't handle their own documents after a while) they just reduce the document the same kind of mess in no time at all.

When I first saw MS Office's ribbons I couldn't help thinking that this might be an attempt to lure people like this into using paragraph styles and other useful features. You hover your mouse pointer over a style and see what it will look like. This requires the styles to be in view at all times, making menus useless while eating up screen space. That results in having to hide anything that's not applicable in the current context, and there you have the ribbon. It basically is a huge context menu with visual feed-back.

Personally I prefer the "what you see is what you mean"-approach Lyx uses. I also like its very clean and basic user interface. It encourages the user to think in terms of document structure and discourages thinking in terms of visual effects. Visual effects are - and should be in most cases - the consequence of applying styles. But defining your own styles for Lyx (LaTeX really) is specialist work, as is having to insert LaTeX-code for more advanced things. I found just using LaTeX directly made more sense to me than using a Lyx/LaTeX mix. I evolved from using MS Word/OOWriter to Lyx to LaTeX. So I'm definitely not the average user.

When I first learned to use a word processor (Wordstar on CP/M) the first thing I was told was to focus on typing the text first, and to add the fancy stuff later. Separation of content and presentation, in other words. I've seen several well-meaning introductions to using MS Word over the years that mainly focus on formatting and completely ignore the structure of the document.

While you can't just ignore the character formatting history of word processors, for me some kind of strict mode focussing on structure and making the presentation 100% style based would be a huge improvement. It should considerably reduce the clutter in the user interface. When writing a document you concentrate on content and structure, when creating styles you concentrate on visual effects.

A clean, structure oriented text editing environment combined with a rich style editing environment would be a winner for me. The current approach could be described as "mixed mode" and should not be the default mode.

I haven't thought about how well this approach would map to other office programs, but separating content and presentation should be useful in most applications.

Posted by Gerrit on August 06, 2009 at 01:00 PM CEST #

PLEASE make this optional and very easy to switch off forever

Posted by Heinz on August 06, 2009 at 01:05 PM CEST #

i think the 'ribbon interface' is the worst thing ever done to m$ office. unusable, uncomfortable, way toooooo biiiiiiig. just try to use it on a monitor of an eeepc. lol.
terrible.
it's one of the worst thing in office, the most valuable by my customers when considering the jump from office to ooo.
just do yr considerations... ;)

Posted by paultt on August 06, 2009 at 01:05 PM CEST #

It does feel that OOo needs an interface overhaul, but probably not in the way of a ribbon-like general menu.

Please, improve the snapiness of the software first. For instance, dragging a quite large picture around in a document is terribly slow and cumbersome. Most of the time, it seems that OOo is making a lot of unneeded computation for simple tasks, thus wasting some precious CPU time.

By the way: please bring back CTRL+Space for non-breaking-spaces. CTRL+SHIFT+Space (the current way in OOo 3, copied from Microsoft Office's own shortcuts) is far too complicated to use on a daily basis. Some writers in my area used to prefer OOo over MSO just for that shortcut - it is now a waste.

Posted by Miles on August 06, 2009 at 01:19 PM CEST #

I like Ribbon, but I hate this protoype. Looks like (sorry for the harsh words, but I am shocked) a retarded ribbon version for 6 year olds.

Posted by oLdsk3wL on August 06, 2009 at 01:31 PM CEST #

The "Ribbon" interface is far from intuitive. The idea that sometimes a command is there, sometimes it is not has proved an annoyance ever since Microsoft began "taking away" menu items you haven't used recently. There are billions of users of computers who have years of experience finding what they are looking for and where they are looking for it. Maybe if there is an option to use the traditional menu system and a ribbon type interface people can move to it when they feel comfortable. (Maybe a new menu system which you can have, "simple" basic functionality and "advanced" all functionality. This would also help fix the "overstuffing of functions". If you don't use tables frequently in a word processing document, why do you need a complete menu up there all the time? Or, use the "innovation" of hmm, you have not used any of the advanced features on this menu for over a month (not a week or whatever the Microsoft timeframe is) I am going to limit this menu to the basic functionality (not just what you have used recently). Just some ideas.

Posted by Ron on August 06, 2009 at 01:55 PM CEST #

switch from NWT to a real cross-platform toolkit instead of wasting your efforts for things like 'ribbon'.

Posted by tapri on August 06, 2009 at 01:56 PM CEST #

STOP EATING MY SCREEN SPACE

Posted by 69.49.134.82 on August 06, 2009 at 01:58 PM CEST #

Re: Ribbon menu

Please do not do this!

I'm a journalist. For several years I've written my weekly column for the local paper (http://hippopress.com) using mostly OO, because it's clean, it's simple, and it works.

The purpose of a word processor is to create documents. Over the years, Microsoft has steadily taken from the precious screen space devoted to that purpose, giving it over menus, tools, and other secondary tasks.

If you're going to innovate, innovate; don't blindly copy Microsoft's mistakes.

Kind regards,

Rich Tango-Lowy
http://DancingLion.us

Posted by Richard Tango-Lowy on August 06, 2009 at 02:11 PM CEST #

Can I suggest not making a ribbon interface? To read this is the worst news of the worst news ever to hit the computer market.

I swear that MS have no User Interface Designers since they introduced the very difficult to use interface and now Open Office is too

If this goes ahead I hope there is a non-cloud based superior product to Open Office out there.

Posted by Vee on August 06, 2009 at 02:20 PM CEST #

Please don't. That stupid ribbon is one of the primary reasons I stopped at Office 2003 at work. It is useless, confusing, and doesn't allow easy access to the option categories as provided in Office 2003. The best you can do is allow the program to produce the options and power of Office, but keep the interface. Its starting to look like a simplified version of the actual program, which in all aspects, detracts from the ease and functionality of the program. Its like turning the whole thing over to an Apple interface.

FYI: The ribbon has been replaced in all the work centers with the 2003 version. Nobody liked it.

Posted by Ken Booher on August 06, 2009 at 02:23 PM CEST #

I do NOT NOT NOT NOT want any of this ribbon BS in my OO! ! ! Period! EVER! This just one of the reasons why I am using OO. The fact I use only Linux is another......Take this idea and put it in the shredder, and don't even ever think about trying to glue the pieces back together...

NO RIBBON! ! ! !

NO NO NO NO NO !

Clear enough?!

Posted by rec9140 on August 06, 2009 at 02:37 PM CEST #

I just thought over to have this view on my Netbook with 9"

Aiiig.... no space left for anything else.

I call this a Epic fail. Go back and try again. This time harder.

Posted by 84.203.147.2 on August 06, 2009 at 02:37 PM CEST #

I have to say, I'll be looking forward to seeing where this goes.

My biggest complaint about OO.o has always been it's handling of Styles, (it feels like Word 2000) and after that, it's interface. I tried being an Open Source zealot for a while before realizing that many of my friends didn't even want to look at OpenOffice because it was too complicated to look at and slow to start (back then).

I don't particularly care one way or another about using the '07 ribbon as inspiration, as long as it feels easier to use and doesn't require an IT degree to figure it out.

Having said that, If it would be possible to optionally make the bar go down the left/right hand side in addition to the top would definitely give more workspace.

--Steven

Posted by Steven Picken on August 06, 2009 at 02:50 PM CEST #

You know, I almost think a blank workspace with a right-click popup main menu would be nice.

Let's put the *word* back in *word processing*.

Rich Tango-Lowy
http://DancingLion.us

Posted by Richard Tango-Lowy on August 06, 2009 at 02:56 PM CEST #

Ok , now copy/paste the office 07 to O.Office why? Who need it ? Why this interface need , the simple old interface is ok , not need to copy from MS to Open Source .
Not need this new interface in OpenOffice .
If Sun make the OpenOffice to work better and make it more faster with Java on Linux and on Windows do it , not need to copy some bad things from MS and the the Interface not easy to use and not good for work .
Make it faster , better , powerful , new tools to work better with documents , most advance tools and after people use it , not need copy the most bad things from MS .

Posted by Sergios T.S. on August 06, 2009 at 03:06 PM CEST #

Oh, please. Do not do this. I know there are so many converts to OO just because they dont like the MS Office's ribbon interface. If people want a modern office suite with a familiar interface, then OO is the only choice for now.

And there is no reason that OO should facsimile the MS Office interface. Please look at the majority of the comments so far, it is an astounding 'NO!'

Posted by Sudharsan on August 06, 2009 at 03:20 PM CEST #

This will not do. I use OpenOffice as an alternative to MS Office. We don't need a clone. We need something better. Furthermore, that UI is terrible and always has been. Please don't emulate Microsoft's failures.

Posted by llamallama on August 06, 2009 at 03:28 PM CEST #

I think it is the way to go. The UI of M$ Office 2007 was the best thing M$ did for its suite, its VERY practical for everyday use.
I was dreaming when OO was going to have something like that, so I can happilly use it again .
Keep up the good work guys! And thank you very much!

Posted by Senhor das Moscas on August 06, 2009 at 03:40 PM CEST #

Please, no, don't switch to a 'ribbon-like' UI like Microsoft has. People, including myself, like OO the way it is.

If you're going to change anything, make only minor modifications to the UI's appearance and concentrate on improving things like speed and compatibility.

People don't like having to re-learn their software every time a new version comes out.

Posted by Derek Bump on August 06, 2009 at 03:44 PM CEST #

The ribbon in MS Office is the ugliest feature of the program suite. Do not include it in OpenOffice. The current UI is great without all the extra useless and confusing eye-candy. OpenOffice has remained the easiest suite available. With that silly ribbon it would just be another Microsoft Office clone and a real insult to us, hard-core and loyal OpenOffice users.

Posted by frn2000 on August 06, 2009 at 03:45 PM CEST #

Personally I like the new UI, however there is one complaint I think is valid - it eats a little bit too much space away.

Posted by shevy on August 06, 2009 at 04:00 PM CEST #

Himmel hilf!! Bitte imitiert nicht schon wieder MS-Office. Das macht OO schon mehr als genug. Das beste Bedienkonzept hatte IMHO StarOffice 4 und 5. Danach wurde MS-Office kopiert und alle guten, eigenen Ansätze bzgl. Usability über Bord geschmissen. Wenn ihr schon den MS-Office-Usern den Umstieg leicht machen wollt, dann bitte mit einem Kompatibilitäsmodus. Alle "normalen" User sollten von so einem Quatsch verschont bleiben.

Im Übringen wusstet Ihr schon: "Wer ständig in den Fußstapfen eines anderen läuft, kann diesen nie überholen".

PS: Ich würde es sehr bevorzugen, wenn anstatt einer neuen GUI endlich ein gescheites Pixelgrafikmodul in OO-Einzug halten würde!!

And for the English-only speakers:

Heaven help!!! Please don't imitate MS-Office again! The current OpenOffice is doing this already and more than enough. IMHO the best GUI and Userinterface has had StarOffice 4 and 5. Then OpenOffice started to copy the MS-Office look and feel and throw out all own good concepts and functions.
If you want to make it more easy for MS-Office users to switch to OO please do this with a compatibily mode and keep the normal user far away from this nonsens.

Do you know: "If you're only walking in someones footsteps you can never overtake him"

PS: I would really apreciate if there would be a usefull pixel graphics module included in OpenOffice instead of a new GUI.

Posted by 91.45.191.92 on August 06, 2009 at 04:02 PM CEST #

Please don't imitate MS. Make the OOo-Way!

Posted by prit on August 06, 2009 at 04:02 PM CEST #

I would definitely say that the fixed label toolbar, variant 3, is the best of the bunch. In it's standard layout it consumes little screen estate, thus being fit for netbook class computers, while giving the user access to the full fold out menus when necessary. This layout proposition would definitely improve the overall OOo experience.

Best regards,
- Andreas Eklöv

Posted by Andreas Eklöv on August 06, 2009 at 04:03 PM CEST #

It's terrible!

Don't ape the apes at Microsoft.

Instead,why don't you take a look at what writers really want? Programs like Writeroom (Darkroom on Windows), Ulysses, Scrivener, etc. offer full screen modes to cut out distractions, including other programs but also including the menu bar. All have cult followings. But none of those writing programs allow footnotes and endnotes, which many of us need.

How about if you produce a full screen capable program (including an OPTION for green screen!) that can shut out the world along with the menu bar. I'll use OOo in a second then.

Posted by Don Smathers on August 06, 2009 at 04:07 PM CEST #

1.) please stop imitating. the Microsoft GUI really sucks. It is not selfexplaining. It is not easy to use. It is not helpful.

2.) Microsoft did this, but they have no Idea about GUI design. If you want to imitate something, try Apple`s old User Interface Design Guidelines.

3.) consistency does matter. M$ inconsistent Design Change might cost them Users. Do not give them away freely by doing the same Mistake.

4.) If you have got to do this, count me out. I`m glad I use Openoffice and it has the same interface as before. If you change, too, I will have to look for something other.

DESIGN IDEA
last but not least: if you want to do something good - mind the readability:
the new widescreen format really sucks for text editing. Optionally putting the controls on either right or left side or both and freeing up column/page height will definitely do more good than going to some idiotic fluffy-fuzzy gui design.
I would also appreciate a safari-like search-bar thing. (i can ctrl-f, but some gui user types dont.).

have fun.

Posted by rip on August 06, 2009 at 04:12 PM CEST #

i strongly dislike any attempt to be µsoftOffice in recognisable disguise... open source has so much creative potential, and there are countless examples of outstanding design... take the ingenious edxor-editor for example, or take a look at the brillant design of BeOs.. or... or... OpenOffice should have a distinguished design of its own!

Posted by Bernhard on August 06, 2009 at 04:13 PM CEST #

Very very very BAD idea.

Posted by Giacomo on August 06, 2009 at 04:22 PM CEST #

If that's the direction that OpenOffice.org goes, I have to find myself another Office suite. I hope there is always at least one Open Source Office suite left which does not copy Microsoft's crap, but focuses on *real* improvements.

BTW, another trend that's just bullshit is the removal of the menu bar. Don't ever consider that either.

The traditional concept of how graphical applications are designed (aka OpenOffice.org so far) is just fine.

Now stop this and do something that *improves* OpenOffice.org.

Posted by Markus Popp on August 06, 2009 at 04:25 PM CEST #

I would encourage open office to offer different ways of using the products. If you like menue or old style navigation a user should be able to use it as well as those who got addicted to the Office 2007 style. In OO there should be a switch which way you want to have it.

Faetures are more important, leave the look and feel to what the user prefers

Posted by Jochen on August 06, 2009 at 04:25 PM CEST #

There are some nice enhancements in this demo. The interface to manages slides is much better than the one in the current OO version.

On the other hand, the ribbon interface is a huge step backwards. Everyone I have talked to about using the ribbon in MS Office 2007 hates it. It makes it more difficult to find the function one needs and requires many more clicks than the previous version to perform simple tasks.

There's some good improvements, but the ribbon needs to go. There are so many problems with such an unintuitive interface. It's widely accepted that the MS Office ribbon is a huge failure, why is OO seeking to replicate an obvious failure in UI design?

Posted by jes on August 06, 2009 at 04:30 PM CEST #

so bad a NEW UI, please don't tell me that will be the final design, or I will try to get the new alter, maybe MS office is not too bad idea.

Posted by zym on August 06, 2009 at 04:31 PM CEST #

This is my thought:

MS Ribbons are basically tabs, but implemented differently.

If you're going to do something along the lines of what's in the prototype, please, please, please implement tabs per se and not Ribbons, which are ridiculous frankensteins of a UI.

Making the interface as much of a standard tab design as possible will be much more accessible to users.

Posted by 173.21.222.84 on August 06, 2009 at 04:31 PM CEST #

The style reminds me of GEOS. Microsoft didn't invent the look.

Posted by Mark Buechler on August 06, 2009 at 04:33 PM CEST #

Instead of simply aping Office 2007, it would be better to try a completely different approach for user interface. I don't think the current OO interfaces help with a user's productivity.

How about trying http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1830-interesting-ui-choices-by-pagehand It's risky, but it has the potential of making users happier in the longer run.

What about opening a contest for UX designers to come up with a more productive interface?

Posted by Saurabh Nanda on August 06, 2009 at 04:37 PM CEST #

Please, don't make a ribbon interface! And, by the way, I agree wholeheartedly with the screen estate con siderations made above - screens are developing horizontally, so let's try to use more space on the vertical sides of the screen

Posted by Simo on August 06, 2009 at 04:39 PM CEST #

Cool features: master slide preview, fast loading, fast grips response in graphics, page zooming, others

Personally the "Ribbon"-like toolbar would be interesting ONLY at sides of the now mainstream widescreens, or at bottom if monitor is used sideways.

Power users rather want the top of the working screen uncluttered to access menus without any distraction.

I understand that flexibility most of the time implies more complexity while programming. If it is not possible to put "Ribbon"-like toolbar at user defined position, then I prefer "FixedLabel Toolbar" variant 3.

In any case, user must be allowed to disable it and use "normal" toolbars.

Posted by yaq on August 06, 2009 at 04:48 PM CEST #

Please don't do it. Right now not having the horrible unusable ribbon is a major selling point for OOo. Don't destroy that!

Posted by Pritpaul on August 06, 2009 at 04:49 PM CEST #

More and more of our customers are moving away from MS Office to OO because they hate the ribbon interface. From my perspective one of the things that OO has going for it is that it uses the same basic interface that the vast majority of users are already familiar with. For a users who is already familiar with Office 97/200/XP/2003 OO is far easier to use then Office 2007, and once they find out they don't have to pay 200-400 for it, it is an easy sell.

Posted by Joshua McSpadden on August 06, 2009 at 04:58 PM CEST #

MS Office 2007 has a horrible UI because the ribbons are implemented inconsistently, not because of the ribbon-style menus per se.

The problem for me with MS Office 2007 is that some of the functions are in ribbon-style menus, while others (especially configuration functions, settings, file open-save dialogs, etc.) are not.

I don't have a problem with ribbon-style menus in OO, but please implement them consistently throughout.

This isn't to say that you should get rid of the classic UI, but if someone wants to use the ribbons, they should be able to access everything from the ribbons, not just most of it.

Posted by 173.21.222.84 on August 06, 2009 at 05:18 PM CEST #

I'm in grad school and I love OOo Writer; I couldn't live without it.

If I may presume to summarize and translated into constructive feedback the overwhelming sentiment above, I would say the following:

1. Make UI customizable, or at least offer alternatives to Ribbon-like UI
2. Innovate beyond Ribbon-like UI
3. Give us more vertical space w/o hiding needed tool(bars)

I would add that for me, as a dedicated keyboard shortcut freak, the Ribbon is a huge waste of valuable real estate, since I only sift through UI commands when doing something unusual. I don't hate it aesthetically, but I don't use it and can't see the appeal. Frankly, I can't quite understand why most software is so mouse-centric, but even if it must be so, at least don't take up too much workspace with GUI.

Finally, why not make the UI skinnable? That way, you'd never have to worry about it again, and the power of open-source geekdom would make OOo work for Ribbon fanboys and Ribbon haters alike.

Posted by ThisisaPenn on August 06, 2009 at 05:28 PM CEST #

Please, please PLEASE do not implement this.

Seriously.

http://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/openoffice-org-its-a-little-too-late-for-april-fools-jokes-dont-you-think/

Posted by Trent on August 06, 2009 at 05:33 PM CEST #

It would be a catastrophic mistake to implement it as only possibility to access the functionality. In my opinion it is only acceptable IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO USE PULL DOWN MENUS (make that 100 PT octa-strike). Engrave this behind your ears and don't forget it. Why?

* The functionality is inaccessible because icons are no text (remember the step from the litte pictures of animals to alphabetical symbols between stone age and modern times? Microsoft doesn't, or better they think comics with word bubbles rule the world. How many symbols do you want to / can you memorize? Have you noticed how hard to recognize they are?)

* we have 16*9 screens. Putting something on top is bad because the eye has to wander from very left to very right. Keep the information together. Don't ignore the capabilities of the human visual system (as Miscrosoft does at will)

* before you copy Ms Office 2007, at least learn from its mistakes. Noone i talked to up today thinks ribbon is finished (and there is a pulldown, from the bubble of shame :-[ ). Not to offer an explicit textual described selection of the functionality is the one big negative point everybody mentions. And that doesn't mean i just want the pulldown menu back.

* use of skins is a pattern well known in the world of UI's. This is the right way to implement alternative access methods to the functionality of a complex program. This makes it configurable

* look at the different UI's used for other complex programs: Gimp, Photoshop, QuarkXpress, Framemaker etc. What do they do to improve usability? There is something to learn from them too.

As alternative product you have to represent the better alternative.

regards,

Tom

Posted by Tom on August 06, 2009 at 05:46 PM CEST #

Please please do not implement this. It is a waste of time, reduction in usability and wasted space on the screen. Please leave things as they are on menus.

Please.

Posted by Derek on August 06, 2009 at 05:48 PM CEST #

Don't listen to all the above comments.

The new interface is going into an interesting step.

Sure, a lot of work needs to be done, but at least you guys are trying to make things better.

Posted by Jake on August 06, 2009 at 05:53 PM CEST #

I fully agree with those commenters who have criticized the Ribbon-type interface. I upgraded to Office 2007 from 2003 with great excitement, prepared to love the new interface. Instead, I hated it, never got used to it (10 months of trying), and eventually shifted to Open Office 3, then back to Office 2003.

* on that last point, I tried to love Open Office, but Write, at least, just wasn't as good as Word. If it improves, I'll be happy to try again.

Posted by Evil Overlord on August 06, 2009 at 05:54 PM CEST #

Greetings:

I think the best of all worlds would be a self-customized app GUI along the lines of "Kaleidoscope" in pre-OS-X Macs (don't know if PCs could), which was a wonderful way to personalize your system's look and feel. I don't know why Apple didn't carry this idea for OS-X or why third-parties couldn't swing it, but such would make a unique and welcome option for OOo. If it's too outside Sun's domain to try, maybe outsourcing the project could do it. If such can't be done, those in the OOo loop please do affect closure and tell users why.

Thanks and keep up the great work!

James Greenidge
Queens New York

Posted by James Greenidge on August 06, 2009 at 05:59 PM CEST #

Please - DON'T DO IT!!! NO RIbbon!!!! At least NO FORCED RIBBON!!! I agree with whoever said it above - for the default, ask people who aren't very good with computers but have to use them. Let us (an I proudly say I am one) geeks customize it ourselves. Then, the interface would be usable for the average person, yet I could make it do whatever I want if I feel like taking the time to do so.

Please, don't just copy Microcrap.

Posted by Collin on August 06, 2009 at 05:59 PM CEST #

I can't believe it. This is the death knell, if not for OpenOffice's clear win over Office 2007's usability issues -- but it will certainly disappear from the list of recommended software that I've been pointing out to dozens of small business owners.

Will be looking to see what Google, et al can do to fill the gap.

Seriously, what has the 'committee' been smoking?

http://macbigot.com/?p=983

Posted by Dan Oblak on August 06, 2009 at 05:59 PM CEST #

From the beginning, OpenOffice.org has always tried to "look" like MS Office. While it's a great idea to keep OpenOffice.org looking like MS Office for those that have transitioned so they have less trouble getting acquainted with the interface, I think it should be possible to do away with the ribbon design via a control in options. That way, people who are used to the old OpenOffice.org interface, and subsequently MS Office 2003 will be able to function without the "hunt-and-try-to-figure-out-what-button-to-click-and-why-they-renamed-it-to-that slowdowns of the ribbon" and people who are used to MS Office 2007 will be comfortable with the ribbon.

Now...for a personal opinion, the ribbon is a great idea for the computer illiterate and a horrible idea for the other 15% of the world that spends time publishing papers and working advanced spreadsheets. Then again, that's why LaTeX, Matlab, gnuplot, and octave were created. When the ribbon comes, OpenOffice.org will become a simple document reader on my computers unless they have the option to disable the ribbon.

Posted by Zach on August 06, 2009 at 06:03 PM CEST #

Please, don't implement this!!!

as said above hundred of times, today screens are wide (wide monitors, and netbooks), improve use of vertical space, make a simple ui for netbooks, implemtent live cooperative editing, and enhance the OpenOffice base to match MS access in functionality, that's the improvements to be done, and not to copy the bad designs

please keep the good works, and not make this

Ehhh a math question, and ussing ribbon for a year, My mind get smaller and I'm not able to answer ..... uff was only a bad dream ;-)

Posted by Carlos Lorenzo Matés on August 06, 2009 at 06:10 PM CEST #

No, I don't want an "option to disable" the ribbon if they implement this.

The very existence of this as an option in OpenOffice.org offends and appalls me.

I want it to NOT EXIST. They need to STOP work on this and eliminate it entirely.

Posted by Trent on August 06, 2009 at 06:14 PM CEST #

Just to add that, while I think it's great that the developers are exploring new avenues, it is disappointing to see what appears to be a "follow the Microsoft" approach. The strength of open software is the ability to do innovative things. Firefox succeeded by being highly customizable through extensions, not by being a clone of IE.

Posted by Evil Overlord on August 06, 2009 at 06:20 PM CEST #

I fully agree with those commenters who have criticized the Ribbon-type interface. I upgraded to Office 2007 from 2003 with great excitement, prepared to love the new interface. Instead, I hated it, never got used to it (10 months of trying), and eventually shifted to Open Office 3, then back to Office 2003.

On that last point, I tried to love Open Office, but Write, at least, just wasn't as good as Word. If it improves, I'll be happy to try again, but certainly not if it has a Ribbon interface. If it does, I guess when Word 03 dies, I'll have to switch to Google Docs.

Posted by Evil Overlord on August 06, 2009 at 06:21 PM CEST #

"Firefox succeeded by being highly customizable through extensions, not by being a clone of IE."

Have you seen the Firefox 4 interface mockups they're playing with while brainstorming the new interface for it?

http://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/firefox-4-0-screenshot-mockups/

Posted by Trent on August 06, 2009 at 06:22 PM CEST #

Please, please, for the love of all that is good and holy in the world, please do not add an MSOffice-like ribbon toolbar to OpenOffice. One of the main reasons I use OpenOffice is because I absolutely detest that ribbon interface. Would it help if I said "please" one more time? PLEASE.

Posted by Chris Pratt on August 06, 2009 at 06:26 PM CEST #

Let's call this Open Ribbon??

Posted by 124.82.88.75 on August 06, 2009 at 06:28 PM CEST #

I'll say it again too.

PLEASE. PLEASE!!!!!!!

Posted by Trent on August 06, 2009 at 06:28 PM CEST #

Please, no ribbon.

In all of my MS Office apps I have the toolbars customized to occupy only 1 line, giving me the maximum amount of area for editing content. These ribbons take a horrendous amount of space.

But, really, why are you wasting time with pointless GUI changes when you could be doing useful things, like, oh, say, fixing bugs? I've been waiting 7 years for this simple bug to be fixed:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5266
Until I can re-size formulas, Impress should be called NotImpressed.

Posted by K Wright on August 06, 2009 at 06:46 PM CEST #

I’ll add Apple iWorks as a nicer UI example

Changing the UI to keep up with Microsoft is no good and is keeping OO a step behind MS. I don't like the Microsoft ribbon, and prefer a simple classic minimal interface like the current OO . if we must get a ribbon, a movable ribbon, that docks top/bottom/left/right is a much better design and would be innovative. I would prefer side option for my widescreen & netbook
OR a floating side toolbar/ribbon like GIMP/Photoshop/InDesign could link to the main menu bar at top
OR an all-in-one sidebar like Firefox with the thin dock & icons
OR Apple iWorks looks very slick
OR IBM Lotus Symphony also looks nice …

Posted by d on August 06, 2009 at 07:14 PM CEST #

Yeah the ribbon design is a horrible one. It makes very poor use of today's wider screens (and would be unusable on netbooks).

Posted by Matthew Adie on August 06, 2009 at 07:16 PM CEST #

I don't really think that we should follow in the footsteps of Windows here.

Innovate! Why not make use of the fact that most users are running wide screens these days? Why a menu system that is able to be collapsed that originates on the left/right side?

I find the new interface in Office 2007 to be to intrusive! I mean we have small areas at the top and bottom on a wide screen anyhow, why not add something where we have space with the option to collapse so you can work without anything in your way?

This seems like innovation to me?????

Just my 2 cents!

Posted by Ron on August 06, 2009 at 07:39 PM CEST #

This is just another sad copy of MS ideas.

It's a shame that the free software has to copy instead of creating brand new stuff.

Why everybody is trying to look as Windows? It's a KDE mistake also, it's not bad, but everything hasn't to be a copy.

Posted by Oscar on August 06, 2009 at 07:39 PM CEST #

One more vote AGAINST confusing, non-standard, and possibly-patented ribbons.

One more vote FOR clear, understandable, and proven tool palettes a la Lotus Symphony or any of the hundreds (thousands?) of other applications that already use them successfully.

Posted by 76.77.70.226 on August 06, 2009 at 07:41 PM CEST #

Wow, all the people talking about how this takes up more vertical space are SO wrong.

Did you guys know that you can minimize the ribbon so that it only appears when you select it? Here's what it looks like when it's minimized:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/office2007_beta2tr_08.jpg

Let's see you do something like that with classical toolbars...

I think OO would win a lot more users over if they implemented this design well. (emphasis on WELL)

Posted by Faruk on August 06, 2009 at 07:42 PM CEST #

Sorry for the double-post, but here's more information from Microsoft on minimizing the ribbon for when you're using a smaller screen:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/help/HA101663291033.aspx

Posted by Faruk on August 06, 2009 at 07:44 PM CEST #

Looks great in publicity shots... But that's it. I find myself using OOo more often now because of the M$ ribbon. Why do I want my buttons to constantly move around? With menus (excluding a right click context menu) all the options are there all the time. They may be "greyed out" if the action can't be performed with the current selection or something, but they don't move. With the ribbon, depending on what's selected options appear, disappear, and shift making for a much more drastic learning curve. I think a ribbon also reduces experimentation with software because you don't know what options are available until you actually need them.

Just my $0.02.

Posted by Kevin on August 06, 2009 at 07:45 PM CEST #

I like it, if it works as well as the one in Office 2007. If I were in charge there though I'd go for the addition of functionality and easy of use. I use OOo as much as I can but there are times that I have to go back to MS Office for functionality (xslx files can hald more data tan ods files can, no row limit and Base is a joke, sadly) or ease of use (putting graphics on top of images in a document is far too difficult compared to Word).

Posted by crichton007 on August 06, 2009 at 07:55 PM CEST #

Alot of you complaining need to calm down and get over it. If you seriously had a hard time using the Office Ribbon you clearly have some clarity issues, and the program nor the interface is to blame.

its a new world

Posted by Jonathan on August 06, 2009 at 07:57 PM CEST #

this looks like what would happen if you took the office 2007 toolbar and made it worse. oh wait, that's what you did.

Posted by sam on August 06, 2009 at 08:08 PM CEST #

Just copying the ribbon ui from ms Office to OOo is NOT design.

The whole "renaissance" process is broken if this is the end result.

Posted by Mox on August 06, 2009 at 08:09 PM CEST #

All of you who criticizes the Office 2007 ribbon are morons. You hate it only because it's Microsoft. If Mozilla, Google or any other non-MS company had invented it, you'd be whooping in joy.

For any feature-bloated software, the ribbon UI is the future. Get over it, the world is evolving. You, damn hater morons, are not.

Posted by reader on August 06, 2009 at 08:13 PM CEST #

This does not look attractive, nor particularly user friendly. It also uses up a lot of space at the top of the UI unneccessarily.

I don't use MS, so have no idea how this ranks with MS products, but I can say that - as a long-time user of OOo - this is not an appealing design. Perhaps at the least it can be made optional if the Sun developers are going to be bullish about this. I'd far rather resources were used fixing existing bugs, enhancing the OOo product in its guts, making it faster and more responsive (e.g. a faster/ more frequent page refresh to rid artefacts left over from previous operations!), and that kind of thing than blow such resources on this.

Please go for a smaller, more streamlined look - with the option for the user to add additional tool/ UI features as required, and to have control over where these are placed (i.e. at the top or on the side for wide screens).

This is not good UI design. Seriously!!

Posted by Andy on August 06, 2009 at 08:14 PM CEST #

Thanks Jonathan! You read my mind.

Jeez guys, quit whining. The Ribbon makes Office more usable for newcomers and old hands.

A lot of the complainers obviously did not even try the prototype or even look at the screenshot; the Ribbon does NOT get rid of the standard menu options (see, they're all still there at the top).

I guess the complaints can be boiled down to

1) widescreen users hate the ribbon because it soaks up our reduced screen height with a huge toolbar.

SOLUTION 1: allow the ribbon to be minimized (hell, Office 2007 does this already)

SOLUTION 2: beat Microsoft and allow the Ribbon to be docked on the left or right of the screen as well as the top (I am not sure about the usability of the "actions" being written sideways, but it will please these guys, the default can be at the top to please people who do real work in Office)

2) My hundreds of toolbar buttons and tiny dockable widgets are all gone!

SOLUTION: quit complaining. That has to be the worst part about Legacy Office and OpenOffice. Having hundreds of dockable, movable toolbars floating around is a pain in the backside. Even Adobe changed Photoshop in CS4 to get rid of this horrible floaty window toolbar mess, and it's MUCH easier to use as a result.

Simply put, the old MDI + Dockable Toolbar Area user interface has been around since the beginning and it has always absolutely sucked. You may be "used" to it but it does not attract novice users nor does it enhance usability to have 1000 buttons anywhere you like.

Go Renaissance!!

Posted by Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc. on August 06, 2009 at 08:14 PM CEST #

Thumbs down on first sight. It looks awful, wastes a lot of screen space and breaks the menu paradigm that has been commonplace since Microsoft Windows 3.1 and even earlier. Having to re-learn a menu structure every time a major release of software comes out is a terrible productivity killer. (I even hated the shift from Microsoft Office 97 to Office 2000 style menus, and as a consequence don't use Office 2000 if I have a choice.) I would have hoped that the OpenOffice project team would be a bit more rational about this. Hey, how about fixing some of the bugs in OpenOffice, and finishing some other things, like giving users inbuilt [Title Case], [Sentence case.], and [iNVERT cASE] formatting capability? There's plenty of work to do on basic functionality without messing with the look and feel.

Posted by Andrew P. on August 06, 2009 at 08:20 PM CEST #

"All of you who criticizes the Office 2007 ribbon are morons. You hate it only because it's Microsoft. If Mozilla, Google or any other non-MS company had invented it, you'd be whooping in joy.

For any feature-bloated software, the ribbon UI is the future. Get over it, the world is evolving. You, damn hater morons, are not."

Ah, I see the Microsoft employees are finally here. About time! ;)

Posted by Trent on August 06, 2009 at 08:20 PM CEST #

" widescreen users hate the ribbon because it soaks up our reduced screen height with a huge toolbar."

Strange, I do not hate it. I'm absolutely in love with it, it's sooo much faster and more intuitive. There's something wrong with you people, or you just hate to learn new things.

Posted by 84.3.161.149 on August 06, 2009 at 08:34 PM CEST #

The one(s) who first brought this idea must be examined for he/she/they probably a Microsoft's agent. I'm not joking..

For the sake of all the wonderful works you guys have been doing so far, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!!

PLEASE STOP THIS MADNESS...!

Posted by Simon on August 06, 2009 at 08:37 PM CEST #

"Ah, I see the Microsoft employees are finally here. About time!"

I am certainly not, but if I were... it's only one versus a gazillions of blind, ignorant, "i-hate-it-coz-its-microsoft" fanboys. Grow up, and learn to accept that somebody else too may have good ideas once in a while. Maybe with the ribbon your beloved OOo starts to evolve to something really competitive product. Because currently it is not.

Posted by reader on August 06, 2009 at 08:38 PM CEST #

oh BLEEP... please NO

At this rate neither Office nor OpenOffice will be usable. Count me out bleepoos.

in a way perhaps good... as alternative suites will reach a bigger public

sigh
Tom

Posted by TomUK on August 06, 2009 at 08:43 PM CEST #

No ribbon please.
It will make OOo absolutely useless on a netbook or any computer with a screen less than 13 inches. Why is OOo moving towards larger-toolbars when everyone is moving towards maximizing the screen real estate available to the user!

Posted by Timbuktu on August 06, 2009 at 08:49 PM CEST #

WTF!

Instead of polishing the existing under-polished UI, you create/copy an even worse UI that will lag behind even more in usability and polish.

The best UI ever is the one WordPerfect had from version 6 to 10:

- One top button row for most common universal functions (open, save, save as, print, etc.)

- one lower button row where the buttons change according to the context (text, table, image, etc.)

At the current rate and direction, OO is doomed to never be a major player (no matter how many leftist universities and governments adopt it).

Posted by Peter Lairo on August 06, 2009 at 08:51 PM CEST #

MS appears to be assimilating OOo. This interface is pretty, but large and using a lot of window space. Following the steps of MS is not the way to lead. Give us a better, smaller and more functional interface. Better, with rounded buttons, cuter menus... Smaller, with more screen space devoted to the work at hand. More functional, kind of like GIMP where the tools can contain all the necessary items, but the tool window changes with the tool selection, or something similar.

Posted by Tom Bell on August 06, 2009 at 08:58 PM CEST #

OK, I'm going to try and be a bit more objective than the typical rant I'm seeing here.

Overall, I can say that the ribbon UI was not a good thing - not for Microsoft and certainly not OO.o Just a little bit of research on Google will indicate that it's not a good interface from anyone coming from previous versions. In fact, I did not upgrade my office laptop to the new office because I cannot stand the UI from the latest Office by Microsoft. I find it hard to locate anything and even though I'm turning down a huge number of upgrades, the UI makes me work so much slower. Please do not use this UI, or if you do, allow it to be an option that an end-user could enable - or disable (if they so choose to go with the older format).

But I will suggest something now since I see you are looking to develop a new interface on open office, that I've refrained for saying for years. Please, get rid of the standard color schemes and buttons that you normally see with Java implementations. The silver/gray colors with standard old web 1.0 buttons is horrible! That's why it looks so antiquated folks! Have you actually analyzed why MS products are appealing? It's got everything to do with look and feel - I can sure tell you it's not functionality! Look at the buttons from the latest office version. Then look at the comforting and mild colors they use. Orange on Blue, Green, pastel colors, etc. When you hover over a button, the button color changes and feels like glass. Office products today look like Web 2.0 versions. (Yes, I know that's not the best example to use but... you get the idea) OO.o looks like web 1.0 You really are comparing apples and oranges.

Oh and hey... I know Microsoft spends *alot* of money on research and development, but seriously guys, can't you figure out another way to organize the toolbars instead of mimic'ing microsoft *every* time? Or better yet, why not have a bunch of "skins" so that a user (if they want it to look like MS for compatibility ease) can select what they want it to look like. Or even better, open up the UI so others can develop different skins - much the same way Gnome or other Desktops are being customized and shared on the net.

But seriously, if you want to push that UI, make it a "selectable skin" call it "Common Desktop Theme" or something like that and make it look just like Microsoft. But please, make another skin that is appealing for the rest of the world.

Thanks

Posted by Joe on August 06, 2009 at 08:58 PM CEST #

For the love of all things holy, please do not remove the menu bar. Want to add some sort of Ribbon like UI, great. However, that doesn't obviate a menu bar, it never will.

Posted by Charlie Page on August 06, 2009 at 09:15 PM CEST #

I for one am glad OpenOffice is getting an updated look. Although I think that right now it looks frankly, like crap, the office 2003 look is dated. Many more people would be enticed to use this great software with a better interface. Sure it is a bit of a learning curve but software changes people. I say just give people the option at first startup of which version of the menus they want.

Posted by Cash on August 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM CEST #

The "ribbon" seems appropriate,
BUT as was stated earlier it takes up a lot of screen area.
I didn't stay with MS-Office long enough (2003) to have any preferences about the ribbon, because I never used it.
I chose OO because it provided everything I needed.
I would like the option of ribbon OR "classical", in case I don't find the ribbon useful FOR ME.

Take Care,
Scooter

Posted by Scooter Conrad on August 06, 2009 at 09:23 PM CEST #

Please do not emulate the Microsoft Office 2007 ribbon. I have to run a third party menu program just to get back my vertical page space in MS Office 2007. The GUI is fine, just work on making the documents format better. I like the .docx file format because it relies on XML in the background and makes for a smaller, more stable format. Please emulate the best, not the worst of MS Office. I like to use styles instead of direct formatting and I want my styles to be portable. Concentrate on that. Menus are fine, they're much more intuitive and use much less vertical page space. I try to recommend OpenOffice to customers because it's simpler and more powerful than MS Office. Please don't clutter OpenOffice with that damned ribbon. Just concentrate on format portability.

Posted by Gary Sanchez on August 06, 2009 at 09:42 PM CEST #

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Posted by Anonymouse on August 06, 2009 at 09:42 PM CEST #

Having a "Ribbon" look is fine with me, as long as it's an interface option. I think it would make sense for OpenOffice to have multiple options:

* OpenOffice.org Default
* Ribbon
* Classic
* Netbook (For small screens)

And let OpenOffice.org be something which is new, intuitive and simple.

Good luck, I know you've got a lot of opinions on this page alone on what's best to do.

Posted by 64.113.24.202 on August 06, 2009 at 09:48 PM CEST #

Please, DON'T DO IT! Ribbon is a mistake, we dont have to repeat other's mistakes.

Posted by Pedro Reina on August 06, 2009 at 09:59 PM CEST #

Actually, I see the ribbon as a necessary evil. In order to encourage new adopters, it has to actually act like the newest version of office. However, a slight modification would keep the normal menu functionality. Have tabs, with an down arrow on the side that acts as a menu. That way, the current 'ribbon' could be open, but everything else is still as easily accessible as the regular menu bar. Look at Zoho writer's implementation, here: http://writer.zoho.com/tabtour.im

Posted by Eric on August 06, 2009 at 10:06 PM CEST #

Please implement this as an option, if not the default interface.

Posted by Eric on August 06, 2009 at 10:07 PM CEST #

This new interface looks like crap, just as it looks like crap in office 2007. Its also confusing to use. Why not concentrate on making other improvements instead of copying vista's crappy interface

Posted by david on August 06, 2009 at 10:17 PM CEST #

NO Ribbon please!

Posted by Juan on August 06, 2009 at 10:17 PM CEST #

Please do not implement this ribbon travesty.
I have been using OO for 7-8 years now and I really do not want to have to deal with a wannabe Office 2007.

Posted by Olle Gladso on August 06, 2009 at 10:26 PM CEST #

Copying the ribbons without mentioning about it? I say open source pirate.

Posted by Seth on August 06, 2009 at 10:28 PM CEST #

So ripping-off Microsoft's interfaces is once again more important than providing essential functionality like support for OpenType fonts, hinting (you know, so documents don't look like crap) or reduced program footprint.

This fails, epically.

Posted by Giggidy on August 06, 2009 at 11:03 PM CEST #

Why can't I STOP receiving notifications of new messages? :-(

It's abundantly clear that most users don't want the awful ribbon. I don't need to receive additional reminders of it anymore.

ARGH

PS. I doubt the developers will chance course. Inertia and dogma. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480623#c47

Posted by Peter Lairo on August 06, 2009 at 11:13 PM CEST #

Please DO NOT try to imitate any looks from Microsoft.
Keep also in mind that the more and more used netbooks have limited screen dimensions.

Its annoying or irritating when only the menues are visible, due to its growing dimensions !!

Just put more efforts in optimising the compatibilty with MS-formats, so that no-one needs their software anymore :-) !

What about a good and easy interface for MS-Sharepoint?

Posted by Maurice on August 06, 2009 at 11:41 PM CEST #

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

Please give an option to keep the old interface.

Posted by Joe Average on August 06, 2009 at 11:41 PM CEST #

Why is everyone whining? Shouldn't open source software be about choice?
I think the new interface is interesting.
But people familiar with Office 2003 and before may not like it.
So, go make it so you can choose what UI style. Those who are new to office programs in general may like it. But make it possible to put on the side of the screen. There is more space sideways after all. But also leave the option to use the interface like it is now. That would give OOo a big boost over MS Office. Why? Those who don't like MSO 2007 will come to OOo. Those who like MSO 2007 but want a free alternative will come. And everyone can be happy.

Posted by Erik Andersen on August 06, 2009 at 11:59 PM CEST #

Please don't change the interface, it is just fine as it as. Yes maybe tweak it or add some new icons.

Don't make this the default please, I truly dislike the look.

Why not make a skins or themes for the program.

Don't make it look like MS 2007, thats a step backward

Posted by Richard on August 07, 2009 at 12:21 AM CEST #

A giant step into the very wrong direction.

These "ribbons" are the worst thing a productive (!) office application could have. You see, I need as much screen space as possible for writing stuff. Having more than 1/4 for these bars is contra-productive.

Additionally, I don't think it is a god idea to change the complete behavior of the application. Long-time users (like me) would have serious problems getting back to their old productivity when they'll have to search everything.

One major reason I use OOo is that it's not bloated. That interface could make me change my mind. Really.

Posted by Sven Knurr on August 07, 2009 at 12:26 AM CEST #

This is moving in the right direction. Things don't stay the same forever! The 'ribbon' works really well once you are used to it. I dislike the old interface, feels outdated.

Posted by rebecca on August 07, 2009 at 12:34 AM CEST #

Please DO NOT try to imitate any looks from Microsoft.
Keep also in mind that the more and more used netbooks have limited screen dimensions.

Its annoying or irritating when only the menues are visible, due to its growing dimensions !!

Just put more efforts in optimising the compatibilty with MS-formats, so that no-one needs their software anymore :-) !

What about a good and easy interface for MS-Sharepoint?

Posted by Maurice on August 07, 2009 at 12:37 AM CEST #

Ribbon--- NO NO NO Please No
The only problem I have with the present interface is the different locations for the menus/ Sub Menus compared to MS Office (which I am forced to use at work... Local Council)

Please don't blindly follow MS

Posted by Ian Dudson on August 07, 2009 at 12:41 AM CEST #

Please please please please don't do this.
I love Open Office precisely because it is NOT ms Office. Don't make it into that. This "ribbon" thing is disorganized, non-intuitive, intrusive, a waste of space, and just plain ugly.

I hope this isn't the start of Oracle messing up the Sun I love so much.

Posted by Josh on August 07, 2009 at 12:59 AM CEST #

If you "improove" UI in this way, I think you will loose already not numerous users.
May be enhancing functionality and fixing bugs is a better idea?

Posted by Anton on August 07, 2009 at 01:18 AM CEST #

1. More and more computers come with wide screens. Anything that takes vertical space is a bad idea.

2. It seems thst by doing this Sun might open itself to legal action from Microsoft. While such action might be unjustified it would nevertheless divert valuable resources.

3. So, please don't do this. Instead, if there are programmers who want to cut their teeth on improving the OOo UI then let them make it much more configurable with, for example, *all* menu options assignable *with icon* to any tool-bar the user wants.

4. There are many bugs and feature-requests in OOo. Would it not be better to use scarce resources on these than on the merely cosmetic aspects of the software?
Get the priorities right.

Posted by Harold Fuchs on August 07, 2009 at 01:46 AM CEST #

I am for the ribbon and think its good that OpenOffice.org is adapting it. However I think it needs to be implemented in a matter that does minimise vertical space and that is aesthetically pleasing.

Good luck :)

Posted by Horuosfoz on August 07, 2009 at 02:03 AM CEST #

Please don't copy the Ribbon UI!!!! Hated it with msoffice07. If some users do prefer this interface, please include an option to change to the "default" UI. Still can't find my way thru a lot of the functions in msoffice07. I would rather suggest a floating toolbar invoked by a shortcut key (e.g. "windows key"+ F). If a user highlighted some text, a text formatting toolbar would appear, etc. etc. I would love OOo to have this feature.

Posted by kurtlinux on August 07, 2009 at 02:08 AM CEST #

This is just so... unpromising. Why oh why the project developers intend to follow the lines of probably/arguably one of the most criticised aspects of MS Office 11+ - the ribbon? Why is this design aspect of such a good intended project so weak and disappointing - every time? Why don't they take into cnsideration the increasing value of the horizontal screen asset with the increasing portion of widescreens? ...and why when there were so many long-standing user requests such as for an outliner and/or outliner pane, or more user friendly interface, do they prefer the annoying "ribbon"?

This is so disappointing, because I love open source and OpenOffice.org. But this is not the long awaited -was promised for Ooo 3, remember- interface change; at least not for me.

Even the project logo (renaissance) doesn't seem right to the eye -very much aliased, html 1.0 colours, etc. I believe there are people, like myself who supports (and want to support) openoffice for its own value - not for its being a substitute of office 98 or office 11. And I hope developers can come up with some favourable idea - there are a lot even in this page in the comments.

Posted by Emre Ayca on August 07, 2009 at 02:28 AM CEST #

In case anyone reads the comments at all, which I doubt, let me join the voices of sanity.

Read my lips:

N-o r-i-b-b-on!

No big buttons!

No flashy skins!

Nothing that would attract a less-than-10-year-old!

Thank you.

Posted by Friday on August 07, 2009 at 02:34 AM CEST #

I find it amusing that people are calling the Office ribbon for morons when the truth is it is better than the previous interface and the reason these people don't like it is THEY are too moronic to learn to change - for the better. Go and ask someone who actually uses Office 07 everyday, all apps and you will find that they in fact DON'T want to go back to the old interface. Only using MS Word once every six months to update your resume for the new McDonald's job you are applying for doesn't make you competent enough to comment on UI changes. I'm no fan of Microsoft in general but the ribbon is an improvement and OOo needs to emulate that.

Posted by Dee on August 07, 2009 at 02:56 AM CEST #

Any dramatically new interface should come with an option to disable it. As long as that is included, I see no problems.

Posted by twocows on August 07, 2009 at 03:07 AM CEST #

Trying something new is nice, but so long as I can turn it off, I don't think I'll mind it. I've never used the MS ribbon, so I can't say yeah or nay about it.

Posted by Jim on August 07, 2009 at 03:09 AM CEST #

Please - have a look at how Adobe does UI in InDesign as opposed to Office 2007.
Utilise the space on the side of the screen with tabs that are collapsable. Fat ribbon UI's at the top of a wide screen monitor are daft.
Keep it logical and simple.
Thanks.

Posted by Piers on August 07, 2009 at 03:30 AM CEST #

you guys must be on drugs,
the ribbon is going to be the downfull of M$, dont follow suit.
How can you be so STUPID!!.

WOW you can copy, congratualtions, now move on.

we want efficiency/speed, not a extra 5 clicks to do the same thing as before!!

Posted by 3base on August 07, 2009 at 03:49 AM CEST #

Please add me to the long list of the Anti Ribbon Movement. Its insane and unusable. It has no place in "productivity" software.

Posted by Alex on August 07, 2009 at 04:06 AM CEST #

I'm forced to use Office 2007 at work, every day.

After awhile, I made it functional by installing the RibbonCustomizer from pschmid.net and turning it back into the classic Office 2003 menu system. Hopefully someone will fix OpenOffice if it goes this route and ribbons are not optional. Please make them optional.

There is no need to call anyone a moron just because they don't like what you like.

I too, would prefer more functionality and bug fixes rather than time spent on a UI that I don't like. However, I'm not an OpenOffice programmer, so all I can do is say "please".

So far, from my workgroup only 1 person has said they like ribbons. And 3 like Windows Vista. Out of 52.

Posted by Stephen Carpenter on August 07, 2009 at 04:09 AM CEST #

What? NO!
Geez, what on earth are you thinking?
Worst idea ever.

Posted by Mark on August 07, 2009 at 04:14 AM CEST #

Please do NOT implement this. It will make OOo much more difficult to use. Many, many of use use OOo now out of choice, not out of need. Please do not make the same mistakes Microsoft did.

It was Microsoft implementing the ribbon that caused me to switch to OOo in the first place (and I know others who feel the same). Microsoft made me learn a new UI when I did not want to. The UI is the interface, let me interface with my app the way I want to, the way I am used to. Why do I have to spend more of my (valuable) time to learn a UI when the existing UI is already great?

I love the OOo UI. It is very easy to use and very easy to learn.

I would love to see more features added but don't change a perfectly good UI.

Posted by John on August 07, 2009 at 04:38 AM CEST #

I'm just getting used to the existing interface I don't like the one you are proposing Thats why I hate Microsoft as every time you get use to one interface they change it and then you have to start all over again.

Use the old KISS principle KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID

Posted by George Duckett on August 07, 2009 at 04:51 AM CEST #

Like so many people have said before, stop trying to copy MS Office's UI because its crap. OOo should be focusing on adding features, starting faster, being more compatible etc..., not copying this ugly Ribbon thing from MS.

Posted by trilepton on August 07, 2009 at 04:52 AM CEST #

I agree the new office 2007 menu look alike is a serious annoyance. it may have theoretical superior UI features but at the end of the day its about a certain sense of familiarity. When an update to a software comes it should be about adding features or improving the software to increase productivity. Having to learn a whole new way of interacting with the software will derail actual adoption. If you switch to this design I would definitely either stick with an old version or look for some other option. It is hard enough to make people switch from office 2003 to OOO 3 but too much change can be counterproductive. I think there are some good features in MSoffice that are missing in OOO and they should be priority rather than the fancy look and feel stuff. Keep it simple and easy for people to switch to OOO not confuse them more.

my 5 cent
FLo

Posted by Flo on August 07, 2009 at 05:33 AM CEST #

Please NO. I applaud the effort at trying to create an improved UI but ribbon is not it. Yes some people like it, even more have gotten used to it but that does not mean it is an improvement.

I'd prefer to have the screen height available for my document, and perhaps a usable color chooser over this MyPaint interface. What I see here is wasted space without improving usability.

Thank god for the other choices if this is where OOo ends up.

Posted by david h on August 07, 2009 at 05:34 AM CEST #

My screen is almost twice as wide as it is high! Don't waste my limited vertical space like this. Why not have the "ribbon" hidden until you mouse over one of the headings?

Posted by Chris Lees on August 07, 2009 at 05:44 AM CEST #

Never follow Microsoft in interface development process.

Posted by Makc on August 07, 2009 at 05:46 AM CEST #

just leave the UI redesign to the Chinese...

http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page=redoffice

ask them for their code ( it's based on OOorg, anyway ) they seem to have gotten it right, even without understanding a single ONE chinese ideogram the UI feels intuitive and modern.

Posted by 189.33.71.16 on August 07, 2009 at 06:25 AM CEST #

OOo is dead.

Posted by 219.239.227.182 on August 07, 2009 at 06:27 AM CEST #

I took a look at the link for RedOffice that Marc posted, and that UI is what I would like to see OpenOffice change to.

Posted by dar on August 07, 2009 at 07:15 AM CEST #

Please don't do it!

SUXXXX!!!

Don't change current ergonomic interface!!!

Posted by soft-helper on August 07, 2009 at 07:24 AM CEST #

In goal to build easily an document, i like the simple task guided UI orientation cf tab start insert design .. review.

Posted by hdjebar on August 07, 2009 at 08:03 AM CEST #

The Ribbon adds so many positive effects to using these kind of applications. First of all, it makes writing much more FUN. Believe it or not - after I got Ms Office 2007 for a month to try I practically managed to write the majority of my thesis.... AND I LIKED IT!

Properly done, the ribbon makes the interface more ergonomic and intuitive to use. So I welcome it with open arms.

One recommondation: to keep the traditionalists happy, the user should have the ability to choose between the "old" and new "Ribbon-like" interface.

Posted by Jecko70 on August 07, 2009 at 08:36 AM CEST #

Very bad interface!
Occupies a lot of working space!

Posted by SlyAlex on August 07, 2009 at 09:02 AM CEST #

I'll definately stick with the old OOo version if that will be happening. This new prototype seem to steal lot of my screen space. If I were you, I would try to optimize OOo for running on low end PC, improve marketing but as they above say, don't fix what isn't broken.

Posted by Zo on August 07, 2009 at 09:07 AM CEST #

Please do not copy Office 2007. The ribbon system maybe good for inexperienced users. For experienced users it is just a pain. For me the new design coming with Office 2007 was one reason to change completely to Ooo.
Ooo is good enough. There is no need to imitate MS Office.

Posted by Mike on August 07, 2009 at 09:14 AM CEST #

Can someone take a ribbon and strangle Bill Gates before strangling himself over the irritating use of Ribbon interface ?

Posted by RibbonScrewer on August 07, 2009 at 09:18 AM CEST #

If implemented, this is going to be the death of OOo. No doubt. OOo should aim at Office features it still lacks, not at mimicking it...

Posted by Fabio Calefato on August 07, 2009 at 09:56 AM CEST #

You must be joking! If you really feel you have to mimic the UI of "some competing office suites" then please do it right and choose Lotus Symphony.

Posted by Fabian on August 07, 2009 at 10:28 AM CEST #

Please, DON'T DO IT!

Posted by U.F.R. on August 07, 2009 at 10:54 AM CEST #

Are some how the GNOME developers involved with this new "prototype"?

If yes, this would make sense why it's so ugly and the buttons are three times the size of a normal button.

Posted by John McJohny on August 07, 2009 at 11:05 AM CEST #

If everyone could choose at setup or via an screen, it would be greater, because lots of people dislike to use Office '07's ribbons.

Posted by eddy on August 07, 2009 at 11:09 AM CEST #

I would like to correct my self. It's actually 10 times the size of a normal button. Copy paste a normal sized "save"/"open" icon and you can copy paste it about 9/10 times inside some of those huge buttons. So much wasted space for the buttons and between the buttons....And if you intend to copy the Ribbon interface, at least do it right with the right sizes and colors so it looks as nice as the real thing (despite the fact it is useless). What you have done is dull and unprofessional.

Posted by John McJohny on August 07, 2009 at 11:15 AM CEST #

Oh, no...

Posted by 95.79.9.124 on August 07, 2009 at 11:26 AM CEST #

Well, I'm an former Office User, and I have to admit that I quickly came to liking the ribbon interface they made : beautifull, efficient, actually everything a "real" user (not developer, geek....) wants...
So getting into this kind of interface is to my opinion not avoidable, as the users want it!
I read many people here saying "Office has options that OOo has not, we want them, so don't work on the interface, we don't care, but work on the functionalities" : I totally disagree with this, computer have come to a maturity status where users want attractive interfaces! Otherwise they would still be using emacs in CLI to make LaTeX and see the result only when they print it!

But, maybe, it could be a good thing to have more choice : for those who are reluctant, option to keep the old interface, and to accomodate to more screens, add the option of having the ribbon vertical on one side or the other, or horizontal, top or bottom...
And about the fact that the ribbon uses way too many space... screens have become way bigger in the past few years, so, you're just using it, and you are right...
I think that, definitively, given the current users of OOo and the market it has to come into, it will be very important to allow _customization_ of the interface...!

Thanks for everything, and keep working like this, it's (almost :-) ) perfect!

Posted by Goulou on August 07, 2009 at 11:30 AM CEST #

Noooooooooo,

please, please don't copy this Office 2007 crap !!!!!!!

I like OO because I can use VERY! much of the standard-Buttons (like I did in Office 2003 and before).
I can also add many and change them. If you just copy the Ribbons and the big Buttons OO will suck in the same way as O2k7 does.

:-(

Posted by HHHarry on August 07, 2009 at 11:31 AM CEST #

Please, not the ribbon, it's really bad for usability !

Posted by JulienL on August 07, 2009 at 11:40 AM CEST #

PLEASE do not mess with teh current OOO interface! That blasted M$ ribbon is really confusing and in my view it reduces productivity to a crawl!

Posted by Stephen Kane on August 07, 2009 at 11:49 AM CEST #

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE

DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE THAN MICROSOFT !!!!

You can introduce the ribbon for the dummies but DON'T wipe out the standard tools bar and menus for more experienced users.

For my own professional experience, the ribon's introduction in Microsoft Office suite has been an huge step back in terme of productivity.

Let the 2 choices to the users !

Posted by FMJ on August 07, 2009 at 11:51 AM CEST #

Why not like this.

http://yfrog.com/ek778pxprototype2j

There are more and more 16:10 or even 16:9 devices at home and at business. It would take less vertical space. You can add parameters like Lotus Symphony and much more. But it should be configurable by the user.

Posted by ego on August 07, 2009 at 12:15 PM CEST #

Please stop this kind of UI movement. No - I'm not against changes but my argument would be functionality over design - in my eyes this new design is not an improvement. You may make this UI available for users, but please leave the default UI to the old menubar style.

I would like to see more effort and more resources in features that would really bring OpenOffice forward. For example XSLT2.0 functionality in import and export filters. RDF interface for ODT1.2 etc.

Regards

holger

Posted by holger on August 07, 2009 at 12:28 PM CEST #

No, no, no. No ribbon! Please don't do this!

Posted by Tom Ryder on August 07, 2009 at 12:30 PM CEST #

As one of OOo user, I can't help saying "NO" to ribbon interface, which creates dumn useless area in limited Note PC LCD.
Back in the early days of Windows (3.1 or around), some office creativity software are criticized with many taskbars almost occupys half the screen (at that time 640x480).
It seems that experience is not inherited.

Posted by Manabu on August 07, 2009 at 12:30 PM CEST #

Oh, please! Don't do that.
I'm a Mac user. The Look&Feel of OO's Mac-Version still is Win-like. If you want to change the GUI, take a look at Pages or MS Office 2008 for Mac. That's much better and also not wasting so much space on the display.

Posted by Knud Voecking on August 07, 2009 at 12:34 PM CEST #

Well, a lot of things already have been said, so I'll just emphasis what I think would be important:

I'd prefer the old interface, so it would be nice it you keep that at least as an option, don't force users to use a new interface.

The placement of the ribbon should be changeable. Many laptops nowadays come with wide screen displays, and here, putting the ribbon on the left or right side would be a real advantage.

Posted by Gert on August 07, 2009 at 12:36 PM CEST #

If you just copycat that awful MS Office 2007 UI, you will achieve nothing. Even if you do, you should have the good tastes to do it with style. A lot of what the dummy shows is reminiscent of Blender's legacy button UI and they just had the good senses to change it to make the app more usable. So you are striving for the bad usability another app rids itself of? Just plain stupid. The buttons are too large, placed poorly and the whole thing looks like it's aimed at running on the XO PC/ netbooks without regards to conventional office users. In so many words: It's just the poorest UI design job I've seen in a while. Most games have more finessed interfaces in their menus.

Posted by Mylenium on August 07, 2009 at 12:39 PM CEST #

First off, thanks A LOT for your efforts about this new GUI.
In my opinion it is really necessary to wait for the final GUI before criticising...
At present, it is too early to do so...

This being said, I don't like at all the Ribbon interface adopted by Microsoft for Office 2007.
For power users, in my view, it is not very "intuitive".
I have spent many years for learning how to use Office 2003 and I do like OpenOffice because it is really similar to that version.
All my friends and colleagues don't use Office 2007 at all because they like too much the "old" version (and all the "tricks" they have learned over many years of work...).

In my opinion, Microsoft Office changed the GUI for marketing politics because Office 2003 was really the best they could produce and in order to sell a new version they should "invent" something new...
On top of that, the ribbon interface allowed Microsoft to differentiate itself from the other competitors (e.g. OpenOffice).
They even put a brevet on it to avoid someone else to use it.

I do think Office 2003 was really usable and "easy" to use: provided you took the time to study a bit its documentation... To "respect" this software I mean.

In my view, the real problem regarding many "average users" is that they don't read software's documentation because of their "laziness" or their lack of time (most of the time they learn a new software by clicking on the buttons in order to see what occurs...).
It is important to add that, sometimes, documentation is absent. In Italy, for instance, there are not OpenOffice's manuals in Italian for the version 3 or later.
As "manual" I mean those with 500 pages and more (the same as those for Microsoft Office).

In my opinion, currently, OpenOffice needs three thing:
1. Much more bug fixing.
2. Increase the cooperation between Sun (now Oracle) and the other partners, that is, in particular, Novell and Ibm. There are many patches which are not accepted for lack of time to study them...
3. Add more features which are the most recommended. Base, for instance, is far from having the same power and usability than Microsoft Access.

In conclusion, as suggested by many other users it would be great to have an option which allows to choose what GUI adopt.
This would be really a plus (think at VLC where you have plenty of "skins").
This would be essential to stop all criticism.

Best regards and keep up the wonderful work :-)

Posted by Silvio on August 07, 2009 at 01:11 PM CEST #

this is really terrible

1. its a copy of microsoft office 07
2. it blend in on non windows OS
3. it totaly breaks the workflow of most users
4. it wastes precious vertical space (16:10 and 16:9 anyone? no one ever thinks about widescreen)

Posted by sph on August 07, 2009 at 01:30 PM CEST #

I don't like it. The less worse is variant 3 fixed toolbar.
At least allow users to choose ribbon as an option.
For me the best ergonomic feature is a right clic on an objet that opens a large and clear menu.
Remember "AmiPro" it was the best word processing software I ever used.

Posted by Franky CHAMBERS on August 07, 2009 at 01:40 PM CEST #

Certainly I’d never use OpenOffice.org with such an interface; instead I’d simply keep using the old version. One reason is that it’s totally inappropriate for wide screens: if the ‘ribbon’ was on the side it’d be much better.

Posted by Via Egnatia on August 07, 2009 at 01:48 PM CEST #

(please apologize for my faults, english is not my language)

great and brilliant idea (ooo need humand and user-friendly interface)

i love ribbons but please , do them verticals (because of wide screens) !

make the -real- difference with MSo

Posted by lechatsauvage on August 07, 2009 at 02:08 PM CEST #

You should really look at RedOffice. Even with Chinese language it looks more usable. If You have to copy some existing UI, than copy that one.

Posted by P. on August 07, 2009 at 02:18 PM CEST #

I think there is enough flame about the desing. I don't linke it very well to. But i have an idea to iprove the design: Make it configurable. So you can move the groups such as "Clipboard" or "Slide" abround. It should aslo be possible to undock them and plece them everywhere on the screen. Moving between the Tabs should also be possbile.
even more: The user should be able to create/remove it's own Tabbars for the tool on every side of the app Use should be able to create/rmove tabs. Or even with the tool-groups. So the User can make it's own interface.

Some time ago i made a small demo-programm for my "Tabdock" concept. You can move the dock between the tabs and freely around. You can also (un)dock the docks.
It need QT4 and can be found at:
http://www.linux-ecke.de/Edit.tar.gz

Posted by progger1986 on August 07, 2009 at 02:37 PM CEST #

screen space pleeeese!!!

would u look at that paste button.. :(

Posted by sharat87 on August 07, 2009 at 02:44 PM CEST #

Please implement this new UI. OO is not bad, but new and ergonomic UI is absolutely needed to compete MS Office. I like it!

Posted by Sepp Winkler on August 07, 2009 at 03:07 PM CEST #

I definitely won't be able to see my document on my netbook if it's going to be that big in the end. :(

Posted by DaVince on August 07, 2009 at 03:24 PM CEST #

I would like to throw in my two cents:
1. Please do seriously consider the remarks on wide screens. This is more obvious perhaps for the OOo-Writer.
2. If you want to learn from MS then you should implement this little control box that lights up whenever text is getting highlighted. That brings about all of the most important formatting options ultra close to your mouse pointer.

Posted by Oswald Prucker on August 07, 2009 at 03:30 PM CEST #

Personally, I don't like the ribbons concept.

As a menu bar replacement, it does reduce the number of clicks required for most actions due to the locality principle (i.e. the user is most likely to use features that relate to the last action (s)he triggered, but the problem I see is that it really hard for new users to find a certain features because it is not immediately obvious what is in which category. For instance "New Slide" from the "Start" category could also be in "Insert", and "Start" is not a very descriptive term in the first place, I certainly wouldn't expect clipboard commands there. Also, what do you do with the commands that don't really fit into any of the categories? Also, the opportunities for customization are very limited. And Ribbons take away a great deal of screen real estate. And lastly, they are not very context sensitives by themselves, the user has to click to bring up the controls that are relevant to his/her current interaction context.

I prefer the concept used by Apple in iWork – put the most-used commands into a tool bar and put the rest into a context sensitive/multi-page inspector panel. In fact, it is really similar to Adobe's panel concept, only without the screen clutter.

Microsoft uses a similar inspector-based concept for the Mac version of MS Office. The great thing about such an inspector is that it also eliminates a lot of modal dialog boxes. On platforms where floating inspector panels are discouraged, such a window could easily be docked to a side of the application window.

Posted by Peter on August 07, 2009 at 03:34 PM CEST #

I spent a lot of time using a wordprocessor, mainly Oo.org. I have to use Word sometimes...

In Word, I have noticed that I have to switch ribbons way too much to be efficient with that interface. In Oo.org, I have personnalised my toolbars and all of what I need is in view all the time : this is a lot faster, no swithing ribbons. So, I'm not a big fan of that interface.

What should be copied from Word, is the way you could define any keyboards shortcuts for every thing. For example, alt-t, 1 for title 1, alt-t, 2 for title 2, etc. It is so much more flexible than what we have in Oo.org because the key combination are pre-defined and limited.

So, like others, I only hope that users will be able to decide wich interface they want...

Posted by jf on August 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM CEST #

Wow, ugly as hell.. very very bad turn.

Posted by tim on August 07, 2009 at 04:09 PM CEST #

It takes up too much vertical space. Monitors are shorter than they are wide and interfaces like this steal away precious inches. It's bad enough having the three bars in Ubuntu (taskbar thingie, top-of-the-screen menu bar and window menu bar). As a writer, it leaves me a very cramped, busy vertical space for actual work. I couldn't stand it.

This is one huge advantage of Apple's interfaces to my mind. Anything which takes up vertical space has been shaved as much as it can (see the attempted new look of the Safari tabs) and the bulk of the fiddly stuff is off to the side.

Posted by Joel Fagin on August 07, 2009 at 04:42 PM CEST #

Why? Spend your time on more useful things, e.g. faster programs.

Posted by SvP on August 07, 2009 at 04:47 PM CEST #

it looks like NeXTStep 20 years ago...

Posted by timi on August 07, 2009 at 04:55 PM CEST #

OMG THIS is SO UGLY. What kind of drugs did they take???
Please work on more efficiant team features, make it generally 10 times faster (OOO is stilll terribly slow) and go on with professional features like CMYK and PDF X/3.

Posted by Gorgonzo La Soenza on August 07, 2009 at 05:02 PM CEST #

Why does OO need to blindly copy MS office. The Office 2007 interface only looks different but has not enhanced usability at all. Please don't make the mistake of copying it.

Posted by Christopher on August 07, 2009 at 05:49 PM CEST #

One of the reasons I would never encourage people to go to Office 2007 is because of the Ribbon Bar, it takes up way to much space, shows things you will never use 99% of the time, you can't find the things you have been using for eons and last but not least you can't turn it off. Simple things are all most people need for every day tasks. Microsoft made a mistake, please don't make the same mistake. Look at how many people are did not upgrade to Office 2007 or have had to buy Office 2007 and downgraded to Office 2003.

Posted by John Dvorchak Jr. on August 07, 2009 at 06:21 PM CEST #

The ribbon is not a problem, but ribbon on top of the nowadays 10" wide screen netbook is simply horrible. Wide screen monitor is everywhere, why not dock the ribbon on the left or right (better) side of the window?

Be creative, and bring convenience, not trouble, please!

Posted by Linuster on August 07, 2009 at 06:47 PM CEST #

Hi!
Please make it optional (plugin). It's very ugly and looks like it has been programed by a visually handicapped developer with an upended 16:9 screen. Why wasting all this space for appartment-house sized ugly buttons?
This design adversely affects netbook users with their 1024x600 px screens. Not everybody wants to buy a megapixel display only for running OOO...

Just my two cents :-)

Regards,
Andreas Weller

Posted by Andreas Weööer on August 07, 2009 at 07:08 PM CEST #

This is the first time I actually used a "ribbon interface", as it has been called, and I don't dislike it. I did most of my slide design work on PPT 2003, which I preferred over OO because it allowed me to get to RESULTS faster (and I have created a lot of slides). This new interface is a definite improvement because of the same reason - speed.
I agree completely with others here that vertical space needs to be honoured more, it's the horizontal space that we have a lot of. I spent quite some time rearranging PPT tool bars to be on the sides of the slide instead of top/bottom.
If the interface gives me 80% of what I need all the time immediately, then I'm very happy! For the rest, I'm willing to go through menus and submenus. But that's just it - it SEEMS that I would have most of what I need at my fingertips, and I like that a lot!
But: please make sure that what I see most of the time is really the stuff I need to design a slide, maybe provide several "levels" of stuff that is shown (basic/medium/advanced manipulation).
For example, I need to quickly create and position text boxes and change fonts/sizes easily, create simple hand-drawn graphics and diagrams, throw an image onto the slide, and manipulate all these things easily.
I really love the way I can jump around between slides and move them around. I'd love to be able to move content from slide to slide just as easily. This new interface seems to provide a lot of that, I'm all for it. Good work!

Posted by Amin on August 07, 2009 at 07:08 PM CEST #

If your goal is to copy user interfaces frightend by the market doing your own thing, why don't you copy Apple? At least they do think about UIs. Oh, you're giving OOo away for free? So your market is, eh, none? Don't copy, be creative!

Posted by Fabian on August 07, 2009 at 07:24 PM CEST #

That is bad... bad... bad... BAD!

at least in that case that is shows
guys! what are you doing?!

do you know what have did our tech-writers with Office2007?
I`ll say you.
Thay did custom tab with SMALL(!!!!) buttons like old, good in work tool panels.

-----------------
Really - i do not want to have 3 of 4 clicks for a movement that i could did in 2 clicks with old "classic tool-bars".

m$`s idea about RibbonBar is not user friendly - it is just for making trubles with migrating to OpenOffice.
Why you have to repeat after them all that worse thinkgs?

-----------------
well... now let speak about business.

If you want to make a new interface "like
Ribbon Bar" (BUT! the only one(!) reason i can see in this - is easy migration from MS Office) - you also should... no, "have to" think about old-good-n-work-interface-users.

...and now.. How you can do both of it?

Just do it like our tech-writers - just not delete old tool-bars, but move them to additional "all-in-one" tab, there they will work in style like they are do now.

So - old-school-users will open it and see everything like they like.
And ms-office-users will see tabs an stupid "ribbon bars" they got accustomed to.

look here:
http://img30.imageshack.us/i/778pxprototyperevisionb.jpg/

and Everybody will enjoy this!

--------------------------
And... of course ... I think you should realize option to turn off the ribbon bar at all and have classic style only intarface.

Posted by Denjs on August 07, 2009 at 07:27 PM CEST #

sory for my bad english,
but I hope you understood the core idea about "old-school-panel-tab".

Posted by Denjs on August 07, 2009 at 07:30 PM CEST #

In particular, stay away from the ribbon! I hate it and dislike having to even touch it.

I'm not so sure a complete redesign is needed as much as a clarification redesign. Not having reached expert status with impress, I personally think it's the wrong target since it's the ONLY target. Writer and Calc might make for better comments in the overall and most everyone uses one or both, while many don't use Impress, although it does need help.

If there has to be a completely new layout design, then the capability to have a fallback but perhaps improved "Classic" layout should be included. If I opened IMpress and saw that new design layout, I'd think thrice or perhaps more about just what the heck it'd downloaded; some of it looks like it was designed by 3rd graders and the total unfamiliarty with it, even with some Linux background, would make me pretty leary of it. So let me have the "Classic" interface too so I can avoid the learning curve for a new layout while I make sure the program is something I can use after using MS's equivalent. Minimize the learning curve and let me turn on the more proficient interface when I'm ready; don't force it on me.
All the time I was looking at the demo, I kept thinking about how I'd react if I'd just downloaded the thing and just powered it up.

I'm for more of a "clarification" redesign to better organize things than a completely new layout that totally ignores an established standard in the industry.

But, that's just me. :^]

Posted by Twayne on August 07, 2009 at 07:50 PM CEST #

The function of the MS ribbon that I appreciate greatly is the ability to get the various options while working in the text itself without having to go back to the top of the screen. Moving up and down is a waste of time.

Posted by David on August 07, 2009 at 07:52 PM CEST #

Make it more compact, I would suggest you to follow Google Chrome style... No title bar... all the ribbon tabs on title bar, and the title of the document on the right hand side of the title bar, where the minimize, restore and close buttons are.

I would also suggest you to work more other commands, which are lacking in OOo, and are very very useful in MSO.

Posted by Zulfiqar on August 07, 2009 at 08:40 PM CEST #

Wow, the largest reason for my move to OOo was to get away from that absurd "intuitive" ribbon bar.

Why aspire to mimic such a terrible feature?

Posted by Kim on August 07, 2009 at 08:53 PM CEST #

No, this is not copying MS ribbons, this is just ugly and wasting screen real astate much more than MS does.

Posted by Jörg H. on August 07, 2009 at 08:55 PM CEST #

Please don't implement this. At least not unless its completely optional.

Posted by Aaron on August 07, 2009 at 09:05 PM CEST #

I can go either way with the ribbon, but my two cents are this:

1: At least keep the file menu for those less tech oriented users who are confused by this ribbon-like crap, and possibly allow disabling that thing.

2: I hope to God that design will look nicer when finished, because that's the clunkiest failbar I've seen in ages.

Posted by David Millar on August 07, 2009 at 09:44 PM CEST #

If you want to bring new users into OO just implement cool new functionality. I thought a while ago that new users would had move to OO if it wouldn't had the stupid 65k rows limit (as MS Office used to have), now its late MS office does 1M records, and we're stuck on 65k limit.
Whenever you implement something you should be thinking what could you do that no other software does, instead mimicking other software. I understand mimicking with things that need compatibility such as VBA, but other than that we should be thinking out of the box.

I think OO is a great piece of software, but also think, that can be much better

Posted by Mariano Wahlmann on August 07, 2009 at 09:53 PM CEST #

Ribbon toolbar is horrible in Office 2007. This is useless feature cause Microsoft doesn't have any idea to improve their applications.
Don't make same mistakes. Improve speed, compatibility, integration, add new features. REAL one.

Posted by Fujiyama on August 07, 2009 at 09:55 PM CEST #

Not terribly enamored with the mock up of the UI. I've been using OOo since it was StarOffice 3.1 for OS/2 and the interface was fine, because I never really used it.
What's wrong with a completely open editor window, and everything run from the context menu on the right mouse button?

Posted by Don Morse on August 07, 2009 at 09:57 PM CEST #

The Office 2007 Ribbon is a major failure, Open Office should not emulate it in any form.

Open Office has not done a good job with the Reader View in the word processing application [in fairness MS has also got this wrong, the 2003 version is much superior to 2007]. This is critical as more users realize that reading material onscreen is hopeless with PDF viewers but easily accomplished in MS Word Reader View, especially if the document is quickly cleaned up by eliminating white space and similar clutter.

Posted by Judson Jennings on August 07, 2009 at 09:59 PM CEST #

If it seems absolutely essential to add a ribbon interface for Windows users who aren't familiar with anything else, then please make it an option (retaining at least the existing interface) and for Windows only. It's the end of my involvement with OpenOffice otherwise - the ribbon methodology is tolerable for a beginner, but quite dysfunctional for everyone else. I still find it hard to believe anyone would want to copy it.

Posted by Ralph on August 07, 2009 at 10:27 PM CEST #

I have MS Office 2007 and the ribbon interface stinks. Simple tasks that were easily found are now hidden and you have to guess which ribbon button to use to find the feature. And features that were part of the default menu system in previous editions are now hidden or buried. Stick with the tried and true. And DO NOT adopt the docx file format. No one else uses it and a lot of MSO2007 users are setting the default back to the previous format so then share documents with others.

Posted by RealGomer on August 07, 2009 at 10:44 PM CEST #

With many of the posters here, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS HORRIBLE THING. Please.

Posted by David B Teague on August 07, 2009 at 11:10 PM CEST #

If Microsoft jumped off a bridge....

Posted by nate on August 07, 2009 at 11:25 PM CEST #

I am sorry but I don't understand it.
Please have at least the option to go back to the old interface.
I really like OO, thanks for the great program. Please don't ruin it.
I think the old interface is fine in general. Some things could be improved but this one: Please NO.
Cheers.

Posted by Patrick on August 07, 2009 at 11:34 PM CEST #

I would like to see this as an "add-on" or optional view. Something to keep in mind if you REALLY want to take market share away from MS, is the learning curve to use the product. Many businesses use MSOffice now, and would like to save money... NOW. They download OpenOffice and find it's interface different enough to scare them off. They feel they have to send personnel back to training... which of course is NOT free. I have not used MSOffice products since Office2000, and I would have to take a couple days to figure things out if I used the latest version - whatever that is.

Posted by Mark Lopiccola on August 08, 2009 at 12:46 AM CEST #

It looks awful, why not just stick to what actually works,

there are many other features in OO.org that need fixing first, how about the gallary, it comes up with backgrounds and a few other options like buttons, which I am still trying to figure out why, why can't gallery integrate with clipart properly ?

Let sget back to basics, and stick with the UI we have, and implement original ideas, rather than trying to take ideas from Microsoft which shows us as unable to innovate.

Paul

Posted by paul on August 08, 2009 at 12:57 AM CEST #

Pleace NO MS Office 2007+ UI.

Posted by Hauke on August 08, 2009 at 01:44 AM CEST #

Well, I have to agree with the majority in this case. Leave the GUI alone.

Concentrate your efforts on making a better functioning program, not a better looking program. This more than anything else will keep users coming back for updates and upgrades.

OpenOffice is an incredible gift that you have given the world. Thank you for all your hard work!

Posted by The Doctor on August 08, 2009 at 02:05 AM CEST #

I'm not sure if many people here took a really good look at UI both beyond the image displayed above and as a prototype.

What works about toolbars is that it emulates the workflow a person needs to go through in order to finish the project. A person "Starts" somewhere, "Designs" the overall look of the slides, "Inserts" media that they like, Selects "Animate"[ions], "Reviews" what they have, and "Shows" their presentation. So the actual order seems to be not quite how I'd expect it but pretty close. Not everyone has the same workflow, I know. But I'm coming from the aspect that this isn't going to be shoved in everyone's faces as the only option.

People are mentioning real-estate, which is a valid concern, but from looking at this and looking at what's presented in the toolbar of say... InDesign, I'd say it's a safe bet that this could occupy less vertical space.

InDesign = ~50px height:
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/330/picture4cvq.png

OOo Prototype = >100px height:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4954/picture5yuv.png

Another thing is that would be nice to see are more pulldowns to the sides for features that are rarely used, a bit like what is done in the OOo 3 interface...
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9990/picture6d.png

Posted by Jack Matier on August 08, 2009 at 02:12 AM CEST #

I don't really care what GUI you come up, I'll learn how to use the basic subset that meets 99.9% of my needs. But no matter what GUI it is, bugs in the processing will continue to drive me nuts. Like the failure of Calc release 3.1.0 to handle formulae repeatedly down rows, and on MacBook Pros the extremely irritating oversensitivity to the touch pad that has the screen image zooming madly from one extreme to another. Please, pay attention to the engine before you worry about the cosmetics.

Posted by Mike Shearer on August 08, 2009 at 02:16 AM CEST #

You need good graphics and animation module that make OOo slideshows eye candy. The default color schemes and gradients on OOo are so far inferior to MS PPT.
Why cant you just think of something on your own and not copy ribbon. Please.

Posted by coppolas on August 08, 2009 at 06:54 AM CEST #

I'am a product manager in software business.

So I know: sometimes you have to run with the pack. Otherwise the customer gets a "dusted quality feel" to the product. By-and-by more and more.

Shallow-brained users (starters also) making their decision dependent on a glimpse.

The challenge is:
- to give the product a modern look for the starters
- and not to loose those who have a conservative attitude towards the GUI (like me)

Please keep in mind that many users migrate from M$-Office 2007 because of the Ribbons.
To have a classic GUI in OOo can be verry important for them!

If I had to decide ...
... I would make it switchable !!!
(classic / Redmond-styled)

Posted by Reinhard on August 08, 2009 at 07:35 AM CEST #

That's why linux fails to compete against MS. If you copy them you will always be behind them. Innovate guys, innovate

Posted by Jeeremie on August 08, 2009 at 07:37 AM CEST #

I left Microsoft Office because of the ribbon. I will fallback to HTML and CSS before I use this frankenstein.

Posted by Ben Brown on August 08, 2009 at 07:54 AM CEST #

Hello openofffice folks, Pls DONT use this UI, its terrible and unprofessional.
It uses MORE screen space resulting to frustrate the user. Hope you to revise your UI. All the best.

From India

Posted by Bas on August 08, 2009 at 08:37 AM CEST #

Ribbon is designed for wrapping backside of Sumo wrestler not for GUI. Please do not misuse it.

Posted by RibbonScrewer on August 08, 2009 at 08:40 AM CEST #

Gee! Well I like it.
It's fast and easy to use, and I'm not a ribbon user either.
Smaller buttons/ribbon would be nice and it's different enough from MS 2007's look too. The UI ribbon technology is the next step as it conserves menu space. All a user needs to do is to 'learn' what tool/option is in what button. No big deal.
Most certainly worthwhile as an option to the default menu bar for all OOo apps.

Posted by Peter on August 08, 2009 at 09:32 AM CEST #

This is NOT innovation.

This is not an improvement! There is something to be said for accumulated knowledge.

How does it increase productivity to learn a new interface, just so that I can do things that I ALREADY KNOW how to do?

Put your energy into improving the product!

Posted by Ken Johnson on August 08, 2009 at 09:34 AM CEST #

I completely agree with moving towards a more ribbon-like user interface.

I find that I am much more productive in Office 2007's ribbon than I was in prior versions of Office. Whenever I use OOo I feel like I'm using an out-of-date clunky UI from the 1990s -- since I find myself clicking a lot more and not finding the commands I typically have very handily in front of my eyes in MS Office.

Posted by Ilya on August 08, 2009 at 09:34 AM CEST #

Hi Frank,

I have played with your demo. The ribbons copy takes too much space. The FixedLabel Toolbar - Variant 3 is a good compromise, because it hides, when not needed.

The small buttons around the pages is really a great idea. Why not add some more symbols, which popups a menu or a sort of ribbon menu? Pigmented symbols would be enough, text is not needed.

Best regards,

Thomas

Posted by Thomas on August 08, 2009 at 09:44 AM CEST #

dastan xosh bet barasty zor jwana.

Posted by niaz on August 08, 2009 at 10:11 AM CEST #

Anyway, users MUST have an opportunity to choose between a traditional and ribbon-like UI. Or the idea of openness and freedom itself will wear out.

Posted by Igor Bronshteyn on August 08, 2009 at 10:20 AM CEST #

heise.de also took this up. There are 390+ German comments at http://www.heise.de/open/OpenOffice-Team-stellt-neue-Bedienoberflaeche-vor--/news/meldung/143179
BTW_ I did some GullFOSS hacking yesterday. Now the names show up more prominently in the list of comments.

Posted by mprove on August 08, 2009 at 10:26 AM CEST #

I am delighted with this move. Having used Lotus Smartsuite '97 before moving to Linux, I can see the similarities between the old Lotus floating palette and this new "ribbon" interface.

This system was always much faster and more efficient for users than the horrible current system of hunting through menus and modal dialogue boxes. For one thing, changes happen live with no need to use "okay" buttons to dismiss dialogue boxes for changes to appear.

Given the outcry by a vocal minority of very conservative OO.org users here, it may be prudent to keep the existing menu system in place as an option during a transition period, provided that this does not take too many resources to maintain.

Overall, moving to a ribbon system is an excellent decision. Hopefully, the JavaFX front-end will allow this to also become the premier online suite in the future. A common interface between online and local installs of OO.org will allow enormous growth of the userbase.

Please, please make sure that JavaFX is fully open-sourced though!!!!

Overall, I am absolutely DELIGHTED with the wonderful news that the antiquated, clunky world of menus and modal dialogue boxes is being ditched for this system. I can honestly say that Word 2007 is the only MS product I ever enjoyed using in the brief few weeks I used it on a client site, largely because of this ribbon which was so reminiscent of Lotus WordPro '97. It is fantastic that OO.org are finally going down this path as well. I heartily endorse it!

Posted by David on August 08, 2009 at 10:46 AM CEST #

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Posted by Bert on August 08, 2009 at 11:22 AM CEST #

David, sorry, maybe I have missed something. But if you mentioned "minority", there must be voting results that proof this.

Posted by Igor Bronshteyn on August 08, 2009 at 11:33 AM CEST #

Prove, not proof.

Posted by Igor Bronshteyn on August 08, 2009 at 11:35 AM CEST #

Actually I do like the ribbon style of MS Office 2007 much better than the old interface, even though for heavy users it means that they have to learn almost as much as new users.

Yet I see this only as a starting point. Ideally OOo comes up with something even better.

For the wasted space: there needs to be an option for smaller screens. But you have to go with times and nowadays resolution is much higher than years ago. Just remember that most screens have a wide resolution so maybe an interface that doesn't put the ribbon at the top but at the side may be an option...

Posted by Carsten on August 08, 2009 at 11:46 AM CEST #

The industry is full of "Change for change sake" - for example much can be argued that Microsoft's move to Vista from XP was purly a way to make money and added no benefit end users.

This is the same.

Wait and see - if the ribbon interface takes off - fine use it.

But in the mean time use this difference to get more people to use OpenOffice.

Some things have evolved enough and now need to slow down - this is one of those areas.

Posted by Simon on August 08, 2009 at 12:45 PM CEST #

The older UI was bad (even compared to Office 2003), so this might be a pleasant change... but will MS really let you use it?

Posted by me on August 08, 2009 at 01:31 PM CEST #

currently i'm installing openoffice on almost every new system i install for a customer. as most manucaturers bundle the ms office trial, the customer has the choice to decide wether the "ribbons" from ms or the well know menues from openoffice suite his/her needs.

most users decide to stay with openoffice and don't order the licensekey from ms.

i as hear from the customers, to learn openoffice is much easier than the ribbons. changeing the well introduces menu system will probably result on more users choseing ms again.

at least i would offer the choice to use the "old" menues or the new system.

Posted by tobs on August 08, 2009 at 02:25 PM CEST #

My eyes, my eyes, the ugliness is burning!

In all honesty though, it is crap; either fix up the existing one, whole sale adopt the ribbon or give up completely.

Posted by kawaii Gardiner on August 08, 2009 at 02:56 PM CEST #

This is a waste of effort. There are more important Office features to add rather than the ribbon interface. For example, the spreadsheet size in Calc is getting to be too small when compared to Excel 2007 and breaks compatibility. Also, the range of charts in Calc is distinctly lacking.

Fix those first, then concentrate on eye candy.

Posted by Chris on August 08, 2009 at 03:11 PM CEST #

Pleaseee
NOOo
NS suicidal move to the ribbon bar is what enabled me to convince family, friends, and co-workers to move to OOo.

This proposed raping of the OO interface is going to force us to look for a fork / replacement whose contributors have abstained from the kool-aid.

Posted by workinonit on August 08, 2009 at 03:50 PM CEST #

I use OO at home and MS Office at work. After using MS Office 2007 for about a month, I moved back to the Office 2003. In my opinion, Ribbon interface is the main reason. It forces to relearn years of experience with well known menus, which can be irritating when you spend time trying to find how to do something simple in the middle of doing a main task. One of my coworkers was complaining that he spend several minutes trying to figure out how to save a document.
Ribbon adds visual complexity to the UI, which it big turn off. Please find a better way to improve UI. Good starting point could be some kind of search bar, like in KDE4 or Windows Vista, where you can type name of a command and it would take you to what you are looking for. Think about Apple's iPhone singe button concept or Google search UI. I think intuitiveness and simplicity are keys to a good UI.
Thank you for your efforts constantly improving OpenOffice.

Posted by kolts on August 08, 2009 at 03:54 PM CEST #

Hellow,

http://lucasfilho.blogspot.com/

Posted by Lucas Filho on August 08, 2009 at 04:15 PM CEST #

After a few days to think about why the GUI team would roll out something so horrible as the ribbon clone that many, many MS Office users hate, I came up with a theory.

I think part of the GUI team is directly or indirectly working to make the OO interface worse to drive people to Google Apps. It's clearly not everyone on the team because there are some real, positive improvements in the GUI demonstration.

Whoever is ignoring the most basic UI design principles and common sense to butcher users' screens with the ribbon clone is the culprit.

Posted by Google Conspiracy? on August 08, 2009 at 04:41 PM CEST #

Hey everyone who is complaining about the "ugliness" of this prototype: It IS a prototype and no final implementation. It is like a scratch and the final version will look differently. It's still about the principle design elements (e.g. ribbons or menus) and not about the colours or actual shapes of buttons or whatsoever.

Posted by flows on August 08, 2009 at 05:30 PM CEST #

Right. OK. If you want to add it, add it, BUT please _don't_ make it the default. There should be an option somewhere to enable it.

Seriously, what are you going to do about MS's ribbon license??

Posted by me on August 08, 2009 at 05:33 PM CEST #

Please don't use a 'ribbon'... OOo can do much better than copying a haphazardly-designed Vista feature in which buttons and icons are thrown all over the toolbars in various styles.

KDE, Mac, & GNOME users comprise a large portion of the userbase and most of these people don't want to use a non-standard, OS-specific design. Apart from MS Office, the ribbons are seldom seen even on Vista and Windows 7.

Posted by anonymous on August 08, 2009 at 06:44 PM CEST #

Classic UI is the best feature of OOo, don't take a step back.

Posted by please on August 08, 2009 at 06:50 PM CEST #

When Microsoft added that ribbon to their Office Suite, I was even more happy that I was using Open Office. It doesn't make using the applications any easier and is just confusing all around, in addition to taking away options for the user. Please do not continue with that design, it is unneeded. At the very least, add an option that allows the user to turn off the ribbon if they so desire

Posted by Derek on August 08, 2009 at 07:40 PM CEST #

Okay, i understand that's a UI-redesign-team, so i won't ask for fixing "core-fuctions" like the Calc's 64K row limit or application's speed/performance, I know that running around with the color-pencils and the UI is the main goal here... but, being an every-single-day OOo's user:

1) Reading *mutlu* comment up above shows that this decision seams to be pushed top-down the throats of the team, yet, is that unreasonable to think that IF this was such a good move, a desirable one, it would have a little more support on every forum ( including THIS one ) ?!?!... Personally I would like to hear more about the decision-making-process that took us here.

2) Does anyone believe that Micr**oft would allow this ripoff to happen without a long and expensive legal battle ( and, this time, they even might be right on court: this looks, tastes and smells like being offensive to their patents ). I can even hear the executives at Oracle-former-Sun thinking "let's cut off programmers and hire more lawyers for the OOo division".

3) Please, shut us up by showing the statistical data ( pools, voting, whatever ) proving that this ***abomination*** ( need to say i don't like it either ? ) is desired AND this is not plain plagiarism.

4) I still think RedOffice's GUI is the way to go ( http://www.johannes-eva.net/index.php?page=redoffice ), but instead, how about going towards making the entire UI layout configurable/skinnable ( by a series of XML files and PNG icons, for instance ) and let the community customize and produce their own revolutionary UI's !? Build a customizable-yet-performance-aware framework of draggable panels and let designers from all over the world to surprise us dwelling over the challenges of usability and eye-candyness ( while running around with their crayons )...

Posted by 189.33.66.148 on August 08, 2009 at 08:21 PM CEST #

Well, I think Lotus Symphony are doing the right thing, giving the GUI a make over and going their own way.

Why fix what's working in the first place?
Is it possible to keep the UI (with some improvements) and let people make a skin of choice - like Firefox/Opera and other browsers?
For me it's just a matter of a little polish now and then, make it maybe... a bit transparent or something?

Ribbons, well that is not my choice.

Posted by Flibustier on August 08, 2009 at 08:22 PM CEST #

Just like in office7.. A terrible waste of space. Oversize buttons to select functions that I usually access from a right click?

Posted by John on August 08, 2009 at 08:28 PM CEST #

not having ribbon would have definitly bring me to ooo. Please don´t use that ribbon shit. thanks regards matt

Posted by Matt on August 08, 2009 at 09:38 PM CEST #

I hate it.

Posted by njansen on August 08, 2009 at 10:41 PM CEST #

I'm afraid their mind is already made -- prototyping phase is over, and the ribbon is on its way. But I hope they take the community's voice into account, because the consensus is by a long way against using the ribbon.

I'd much rather they give us a way to write plugins or themes/skins for the interface. If they want, the ribbon can be provided as an optional plugin for those who want it. This would also give people the ability to go crazy with the UI and create something brand new that really kicks @$$.

@someone: wow, redoffice looks really nice! Shame there's no english version, though.

Posted by me on August 08, 2009 at 10:56 PM CEST #

Let me start by saying: I'm not a UI designer.

As for direct feedback on the prototypes:
Scrolling Toolbars: I preferred Variant 2, but didn't like the scrolling toolbar concept.
Tabbed Toolbar: I liked this better than scrolling toolbars.
FixedLabel Toolbar: I liked this best, particularly Variant 1.

As for some general guidance to consider:

- Who's the audience?
Tailor the interface to them. If you're unsure, consider offering options, much as you have with this GUI prototype. If it's MS Office users, you'll need to match the functionality nearly exactly to minimize undesirable differences. If it's us geeks, you'll need a spartan template/skinnable based interface that has Firefox-like plug-ins and can leverage CSS. If it's "joe average" (or as others call "morons", "idiots", etc.), then you'll want a MS Bob-like interface with the 10 most frequently used features always at hand and little else. If you're targeting an international audience, use a lot more icons/symbols and a lot less words (as one poster already suggested), although words carry a lot more meaning in a fast changing industry (you could argue the standard office applications aren't exactly fast changing) and can express more complex ideas than pictures.

- What type of device are you targeting?
It appears you don't know, so perhaps offering a few UI device options, like "widescreen", "netbook", and "handheld" would offer the desired flexibility. Auto-detect would probably be ideal.

- Is there an installed base that you need to bring forward?
I think the answer is yes, which means you'll need to make huge UI improvements to get existing users to move to the new version.

- Can you leverage competitors work?
Again, I think the answer is yes. Include the good, leave out the bad. Unfortunately, "good" and "bad" vary with the target audience, device in use, and installed base. As for the MS Office-like ribbon toolbar, weaknesses need to be avoided and strengths exploited. Add to that the patents, copyrights, and trademarks that need to be avoided can nearly mandate changes from the “original” ribbon toolbar. Take a look at RedOffice, Symphony, iWork, and even older products like AmiPro and Lotus for alternative ideas on how to improve OOo.

Posted by Toby on August 08, 2009 at 11:51 PM CEST #

You need to look at the current batch of laptops where vertical space on the screen is in short supply. These screen are much wider than high.

The menus and ribbon are better placed on the left or right of the screen, so enabling the user to use the complete height of the screen to read documents.

Also the use of icon instead of menus is very confusing. You require the user to learn a new alphabet instead of words. If you want an icon based interface, it would be better to use the Chinese alphabet as they have had may year to perfect a single icon based writing system for multiple languages.

Your proposed interface uses too much screen real estate in the wrong orientation. It needs to use a little screen spacs as possible, and be friendy to laptops and netbooks where vertical headroom is limited.

Posted by Duncan Hare on August 08, 2009 at 11:59 PM CEST #

The ribbon thing is possibly the worst interface I've ever had the misfortune to use in MS office 07. It's a total mess and uses up valuable screen space for zero gain. I totally hate it.

Please don't implement anything like it on OOo.

Posted by AlienGoo on August 09, 2009 at 12:11 AM CEST #

I got tired of reading the same comments after reading the first 10. I seriously don't understand why people found the ribbon so annoying, I for one found it much more usable than having to look for tiny buttons on millions of toolbars within thousands of buttons that, in some cases, don't fall into any particular category but just randomly placed about in toolbars. In my opinion the ribbon did make office more usable.

Those of you complaining about having to relearn something new. Really? Would you complain if your new car doesn't have the dashboard meters in the right order like your old one did? Don't be lazy. Learn it. "Change is good." (whether it's McDonald's nuggets or Office ribbons)

If it didn't, we'd all still be using command-line operating systems wouldn't we? (And if you've got something to say about this last comment, you really gotta get out more.)

Posted by Peter on August 09, 2009 at 12:34 AM CEST #

On a similar note, I hate it when people switch to classic view in the control panel of windows xp because they claim they can find things faster as I watch them switch over to the new view and can't find sh-t because 8 categories all of a sudden changed to about 30~40 items. The categorical/tree view is much faster in finding things. Exactly as how it is in this ribbon.

Posted by Peter on August 09, 2009 at 12:37 AM CEST #

Yep. change is good and kudos to MS for trying something different. But different doesn't always equal good. The important thing is that we learn from mistakes and ribbon is a mistake. Lets not repeat it with ooo.

Posted by Bluefish on August 09, 2009 at 12:54 AM CEST #

"Don't be lazy. Learn it. "Change is good." (whether it's McDonald's nuggets or Office ribbons) "

This is about productivity and cost not laziness. It costs time and money to learn were functions are in a new GUI.

I dropped Netscape navigator for precisely this reason: "This function is in here somewhere, but now I can't find it."

What make any new GUI, is the learning time and cost. Changing the GUI is not an improvement. It's a cost.

Please don't talk down to us. We're all beyond being patronized. "Don't be lazy" indeed.

Posted by Duncan Hare on August 09, 2009 at 01:05 AM CEST #

I wasn't talking down to you. Like I said, I believe this ribbon does make office more usable and quicker for me. It feels more like having your stationaries/office supplies placed in bins within multiple categorized drawers rather than having them laid out all in one big drawer.

And if you think about it, for any laziness comment about pretty much anything, you can always argue productivity and cost. Not only that, any change in a software is always a cost. When is it ever not?

Posted by Peter on August 09, 2009 at 01:36 AM CEST #

Hmm quite a few intresting posts, but for me, I will wait and see.

I do not belive the ribbon to be an idea with out merrit, even if MS Office 2007 was a poor example. I belive the Mac version did it better.

However, there is one issue which Microsoft has no simpathy for, which is the forced retraining of staff to get any level of decent productivity out of them when you change (unlike the change of versions 2000 upto 2003).

I think allow the user to choose which interface to use is a better way of implementing the Ribbion or what ever interface you move to. There are more intresting more modern looking interfaces.

Also note that the changes in Office are also reflected in the changes in the OS, this will not be true of Open Office users on non MS OS's.

Posted by Pickled Pepper on August 09, 2009 at 02:57 AM CEST #

I'm preffer OOo for his simple interface. I really don't like the 'ribbon' of MS Office 2007, isn't easier for new user and isn't handy for common users.

Posted by Sanbor on August 09, 2009 at 04:06 AM CEST #

Three Quarters of the Worlds users are upgrading from 3 - 5 year old M$ packages. Teach them how to use OOo as it is and then how to use optional extras (with a back option).
NO ONE wants to maintain the US$ as the world standard by paying M$.

Posted by Ray on August 09, 2009 at 05:40 AM CEST #

Please don't copy Ribbon UI. You can do better.. if somebody wants ribbon UI; give it as an option.
Hey... why don't offer user selectable/custumizable UI... in this way everyone is free to use whatever want or desing!

Please don't put ribbon as a unique UI!!!

Posted by Randall Badilla on August 09, 2009 at 06:31 AM CEST #

I like that the new UI is not as busy as the old for Impress. Even so, the buttons need to be smaller to increase editing space. The organization of editing features is better as well. The buttons are just too big especially for relatively minor functions like cut and paste, and line style. I still prefer drawing functions at the bottom of the window. You're on the right track, just keep working on it.

Posted by Dan Presley on August 09, 2009 at 06:31 AM CEST #

Nooooooooooooo!

OMG What are you doing!?!? This is a VERY bad idea - the whole world hates the ribbon, hates it, and now you're totally ripping it off! Either try having an idea of your own or leave it as it is. You're hardly going to put MS in their place by copying them badly, it makes YOU look like losers trying to ride on their coat tails. People KNOW how to use OO, just like they KNEW how to use Office2003, getting rid of the UI they know doesn't help users it HURTS them.

There are dozens of ways you could improve OO3's UI experience (email me and I'll send you a list!), this is not one of them.

Damnit Sun used to be all about the innovation, isn't this the company that once brought us SPARC, JAVA & ZFS? :-/

Posted by Roger on August 09, 2009 at 06:40 AM CEST #

Oh and fix your website... if you're going to make your functionality dependent on Javascript it would be a good idea to detect browsers that aren't using it and display a message to that effect instead of silently failing to work.

Posted by Roger on August 09, 2009 at 06:44 AM CEST #

I hope you will implement a option that i can use the old interface instead of this ugly ribbon-sh*t. If you don't you can be sure that I don't want to use OO.o anymore and use Abiword instead. Also your screenshot tells me that I would have to buy a bigger monitor for the next OO.o-release.

ribbon-shit? Not with me. There are enough good alternatives.

Posted by Txt.file on August 09, 2009 at 07:01 AM CEST #

I hate the new user interface. It uses far too much screen-height and doesn't leave enough for the document. It is harder to use than the existing menus. It will result in legal action from Microsoft.

Posted by Peter Erskine on August 09, 2009 at 07:05 AM CEST #

Mimic Ms and you validate it and whatever it has to offer, making your effort and your offering quickly irrelevant. To implement this plan is open your own vein. Microsoft killer? I think not.

Instead of this, there are many things you can do to innovate in the UI. A trivial example: merge the immediate, very local context of the pointer/cursor, pop-up tool-tips tech, and 'dwell' to make it possible for users to 'drill down' into the possibilities (the commands) of the program, on a gradient, from easy/obvious to evolved/arcane, as a function of the duration of the 'dwell'... Cost? Certainly not screen real-estate. Likely not extinction.

Posted by michaelt on August 09, 2009 at 07:33 AM CEST #

You know, customisable right-click menus would be a huge plus!

Posted by me on August 09, 2009 at 11:47 AM CEST #

One of those things I don't like in MS Office are the ribbons, so I'm not very convinced of implementing them for OpenOffice. But I must confess, that I don't have much experience with them. I'm using OpenOffice since 2001 and never felt a need to change back to MS, so I haven't done very much with those ribbons.

At least it may be an argument for the ribbons, that the actual MS Office users are getting more and more used to that kind of GUI. Not implementing it would make it more complicated (or at least frightening) to change to OpenOffice.

Posted by Richard Westebbe on August 09, 2009 at 12:08 PM CEST #

We have bought „Classic menu for MSO2007“ for all computers in our company,
because the Ribbons aggravate the work and make the Nuzer confused.

If OpenOffice introduces this nonsense now too,
so this would be the reason for most colleagues,not using at home OpenOffice any more.

Moving the lasts to and fro (or moving up and down) isn't ergonomic.
It is bad for the eyes and causes headaches.

PLEASE, they don't worsen Openoffice in this way.

Posted by Mark on August 09, 2009 at 02:13 PM CEST #

I wonder why people have such a problem with MS Office ribbon UI. Sure at first it takes some getting used to, but once you start using it, it IS far more productive than the old interface. If people find it hard to use then I would argue that it is the user that needs updating! Often it is simply down to people's resistence to change rather than a willingness to be more productive.

Posted by Mosh Jahan on August 09, 2009 at 03:26 PM CEST #

Why is everyone blaming this UI?
nevermind... But I think it would be better to place this
(vertically) on the left side.
Almost every TFT is wide, and if the toolbar is horizontal, then I can read 10 lines of text? Use that free space on the left (right).

Posted by scarab on August 09, 2009 at 03:58 PM CEST #

For you linked to this post from elsewhere, there's a new post up -- go read it.

Posted by me on August 09, 2009 at 04:04 PM CEST #

"... i have an idea to iprove the design: Make it configurable. So you can move the groups such as "Clipboard" or "Slide" abround. It should aslo be possible to undock them and plece them everywhere on the screen. Moving between the Tabs should also be possbile.
even more: The user should be able to create/remove it's own Tabbars for the tool on every side of the app Use should be able to create/rmove tabs. Or even with the tool-groups. So the User can make it's own interface."

Here is a suggestion: Use the ability to create and move panels and and populate them that you find on your Gnome desktop as a pattern for the controls on the Open Office Application. You can move the control panel to top, bottom or side of screeen. You can make the control panel a status bar or a control bar. One of your "controls" would be a tab bar, and you can put anything you want on any tab, even a sub-menu.

That's kind of like a dream setup.

Have two default setups, one that looks like Microsoft's ribbon bar. The other looks like the current Open Office design.

Posted by Gostak on August 09, 2009 at 04:04 PM CEST #

Why is the old Freehand-Style OpenOffice 1.1 UI completly kept out this discussion?

It was great, simple and unique!

Posted by Florian on August 09, 2009 at 05:39 PM CEST #

First, sorry for my bad English.

@Florian: I agree with you completely.
I think the developers like to chuck good things away.

Own I am surprised that OOo is not able develop GUI - one which provides
the user with a great and quiet workarea.
Unfortunately, she will be small and restless in future.

The bugfixing should have the topmost priority.
The developers work on it instead, the fairly good UI softens completely useless to.
This is very sad.
And this means that OOo will be still worse in future.

The only pro-argument remains 'free' now.
I had liked OOo very much, but now no more. I will work with another product in future.

BTW: Please, they repair her side.
No report why the comment wasn't sent comes.
(the address not written wrongly, JavaScript disabled)

Posted by Muck on August 09, 2009 at 06:46 PM CEST #

Heh. Reminds me of Blender.

Posted by Uros Dimitrijevic on August 09, 2009 at 07:57 PM CEST #

Please do us all a favour. Stop this project and focus on more serious issues.

Mimicking Microsoft does not bring OpenOffice any further. There are so many applications with plain menu-toolbar style interfaces and only one application with a ribbon interface. Forcing users to relearn a workhorse app is not the best way to improve OpenOffice and gain wider acceptance.

Besides: Documenting widget usage would allow for theming in Linux. Thus provide visually appealing user experience.

Are the no more bugs to fix or features to add that we can fiddle with the UI?

Posted by 62.40.177.65 on August 09, 2009 at 08:58 PM CEST #

Nice... BUT still has "open source" stamped all over it.... like regular MS Office - but on a PC with a dodgy video board !

If it was a hairstyle... it would be an 80s Mullet !!

Posted by Saltpetre on August 09, 2009 at 10:03 PM CEST #

I think designing such an interface is an absolute wrong decision! Ooo is still not very good for use and the compatibility with MS Office files is the biggest problem that prevent users to use it in daily work.

Compatibility with MS Office files is no special difficult, because Kingsoft Office from China can do very well.

Posted by 222.191.191.40 on August 09, 2009 at 10:41 PM CEST #

Microsoft Office 2007 and interface Microsoft Office 2007 must die. Old interface Ooo - best.

Posted by rinsvid on August 09, 2009 at 10:43 PM CEST #

Around the tragedy a little humor at mix:
Which one gives apparently many developers have much time.
What would it be like with that:

An OOo with traditional UI and bow fixing.
For people who well, easily and with joy want to work.

A second OOo for people who want to play.
This can have many faults, not cares about it.
This must have Ribbons. The buttons must the following be able to:
flash, blink
laugh, yell, dance, hopping
jumping off the left below to the right above
and more of this.

I would immediately take the first variant - good and productive.
Also then when I should pay for it.

Posted by Muck on August 09, 2009 at 11:18 PM CEST #

Just as a thought - well done on trying new things interface-wise.

I agree with the few people above who say that whilst the ribbon was hard to get used to, it becomes something you can't live without - Office 2007 is actually the core reason I'm running Windows instead of Linux.

It's true that increasingly, monitors are becoming widescreen, and this is particularly the case for netbooks. So maybe as a suggestion, you could set up the new UI so it can easily be toggled between across the top of the workspace to down the left/right hand side of the workspace.

I think that would really take into consideration the limited screen space available to netbook users.

Having said all of that, thanks for bringing great free software!

Posted by Fabs on August 10, 2009 at 01:14 AM CEST #

PLEASE NO RIBBON.

Posted by Mark Nelson on August 10, 2009 at 02:35 AM CEST #

This is a big step forward. The posts here shooting down the new concepts are rediculous. Have some respect, please! I am a professional spreadsheet user and a user of both Office 2007 and OOo 3.1. It was a bit of a push to learn Office 2007, but it was well worth it. I would not go back to any previous versions! Openoffice needs to come forward into the 21st century and these designers are trying to get there. I love the tabbed interface in Office and would love to see OOo implement something new - change is needed. The prototype uses too much screen space and should be reduced by several percent. Buttons are too big. Thanks for your efforts OOo team!

Posted by Ron on August 10, 2009 at 04:09 AM CEST #

60%-80% of excel users hate or dislike the ribbon UI. See http://www.exceluser.com/explore/surveys/ribbon/ribbon-survey-results.htm for more info.

Posted by Kent Tong on August 10, 2009 at 06:18 AM CEST #

This is a step in the wrong direction. The reason why I stick to OpenOffice.org over Microsoft Office is that it has a usable, classic interface. Please do not try to change the interface to something foreign. The ribbon interface Microsoft has created makes it much more difficult to get work done.

Have you ever heard the expression: if it's not broke, don't fix it? This is certainly the case with office productivity software. Microsoft is grabbing at straws to try and make their product "different" and "innovative" to sell more copies. OpenOffice.org should not follow this trend and focus on implementing new features and making the existing suite faster and less buggy.

Posted by Paul on August 10, 2009 at 06:24 AM CEST #

I'm do not like it. Resembles MSO2007 a way too much. And MSO2007 has proven to be hard to migrate into, because people have to re-educate their personnel from scratch. Real PITA! Wth Sun wants others to follow this way? People are using OOo because they do not have to re-educate personnel since UI looks classic enough. If is very stupid idea to copy questionable "features" of MSO2007. And no, please no stinkin` java. OOo is ALREADY SLOW compared to MSO so no stupid java, please. Or everyone will abandon this fat overbloated monster. Are you mad about forcing everyone to use Java or just trying to sabotage project (this will lead to forks for sure).

Posted by asdf987 on August 10, 2009 at 06:38 AM CEST #

I agree with gostack, but I see danger of a fork.

Why couldn't OO have an optional ribbon-like interface and a legacy interface?

For that matter, why couldn't OO be made to inherit desktop environment settings?

Posted by Bob on August 10, 2009 at 08:19 AM CEST #

Do not implement this without the ability to revert back to the traditional menus. If you have both user interface systems as an option, then allow the users to opt to whatever they want to use.

Moving straight into a "Ribbon" type system will reduce the number of people using Open Office, I for one will not be upgrading to the new version if this user interface system is implemented, and I suspect many others will not either.

Please, please, please, please, please, please do not implement this as the only menuing system - keep the traditional menus as an option, this way you can give the userbase the option to use it or not.

Implement new features, people use Open Office becuase of what it does - single click .PDF creation, multi format save options. keep adding these options, and do not implement the new user interface option.

Posted by Stuart grier on August 10, 2009 at 09:36 AM CEST #

Please don't add a ribbon bar to Open Office, or at least give us a traditional interface as well. I hate the ribbon bar interface so much I changed careers - seriously! Please don't do it!

Posted by NoSheds on August 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM CEST #

I am not averse to change, while it can be a problem getting used to something different initially it can then be more productive if the change is a genuine improvement.

I do think this may NOT be a genuine improvement at this point though, widescreen is becoming the de facto standard on the desktop, adding such a massive upper panel takes away a lot of area from the actual document you want to work on, and working on the document is the primary goal, the interface on this design I feel gets in the way of working.

It would make far, far more sense to consider moving the toolbars into a better vertical format, the current vertical formats when you move a toolbar are quite ugly and less useable, though a lot of that could just be familiarity with a horizontal layout. A UI redesign would be a good time to make a shift to vertical toolbars and make better use of widescreen displays that are the standard now.

Don't copy the ribbon, innovate a better vertical layout for todays desktop shape.

Posted by John on August 10, 2009 at 10:55 AM CEST #

IMO, the ribbon should be implemented in a way that allows users to toggle it on and off. I use Office 2k7 at work and was put off the re-arrangement of the menu items. Nothing was where it used to be. That's what I hated about it. I was surprised (or maybe not) that MS did not provide a built-in option to users.

If some form of ribbon is not used, it may be more difficult to woo users who are accustomed to it, from Office to OpenOffice.

Posted by marytee on August 10, 2009 at 11:41 AM CEST #

I always considered the ability to learn from mistakes to be one of the defining factors of intelligence. Learning from your own mistakes is good, and learning from the mistakes of others is still better.

The ribbon interface in MS Office is almost universally despised. True, some devoted users who have had the time and energy to adapt to the new paradigm have expressed a preference for it, but most regular users (myself included) find it an intrusive distraction; even frequently-used tools can be obscured and require significant effort to find again. Every time you have to look for something represents a distraction from what you were doing, and this is a low-grade, regular pain.

If you MUST ape Microsoft and implement a similar ribbon-style interface, then the most important lesson you should learn from their mistake is to MAKE THAT UI SWITCHABLE. Allowing your users to CHOOSE the ribbon interface OR the old-style menus-and-toolbars will strike the correct note, and shouldn't represent a significant extra effort for you.

If you're collecting usage stats, it might also be interesting to report on the takeup of the new interface over time. I don't know whether this is something you do... ;)

Posted by David on August 10, 2009 at 11:53 AM CEST #

I agree with many of the sentiments above:

*
It would be nice to be able to continue to use the traditional menus for people (like me) who are not smart enough to use any menu that doesn't just show all available options.

*
The ribbon is nice for people who understand it.

*
So please make the ribbon optional.

*
Would it be possible to have an (optional) vertical ribbon instead of a horizontal one?

Posted by JohaM on August 10, 2009 at 11:58 AM CEST #

Many people have switched to OpenOffice because they hate the Office 2007 interface. _I_ hate the Office 2007 interface. Please don't waste time on this counter-productive idea.

Posted by Steve on August 10, 2009 at 12:26 PM CEST #

Stepping back a moment!
Why are we even aping a presentation tool? Surely better to consider word processing, DTP and presentation as the same task (arranging text and graphics to express information effectively) and then the difference becomes how to present the information. This could be an opportunity to have one UI for all three goals and provide tools in one place. Clearly the emphasis could be different between a letter, a presentation, a brochure and a Poster but hey, typing in some text, setting foreground, outline and background colours, and setting fonts and their attributes are all common tasks. You can concentrate on making the job of defining text areas easier (e.g. layout grids & linked text elements that flow text), picking and managing styles easier, choosing and managing templates easier and so forth. Then all you need are useful and easy ways to render the information appropriately for the presentation medium/style.

We don't have to follow the existing model. REVOLUTION, not status quo!

Posted by Greg on August 10, 2009 at 12:58 PM CEST #

**********************************
http://bit.ly/1Yudf
**********************************

The current mockup is a fiasco.

By simply copying Microsoft you're
doing multiple errors. OpenOffice
should innovate more.

**********************************

Posted by FremyCompany on August 10, 2009 at 02:56 PM CEST #

STOP STOP STOP
Fix the bugs in the programms.
STOP STOP STOP

Posted by Jan de Jong on August 10, 2009 at 03:35 PM CEST #

No!

The appeal of OpenOffice is that it is not plagued by he MicroSoft UI.
The best feature of MS Office that helps me and others to encourage corporate wide acceptance of OpenOffice is that incredibly user hostile ribbon.
Why take a step backwards?

Posted by Ran Garoo on August 10, 2009 at 04:22 PM CEST #

So - something simular to MS, what a surprise........ ;-)
Hovever I like the proposal, playd a bit with the Java demo and shure there are things that can get better but all in all quite nice!

Cant many here agree on having both options (like now and "Ribbon clone" would satisfie most users?! And also be a good argument to use OO
- hey you miss Office 2003? Use OOO with old menus.
- hey you want office 2007? - use OOO with new menu system.

By the way - like the idee of having a vertical ribbon. Could maybe the ribbon be a movable "Dock" like in Adobe professional or Koffice?!

Best regards from a Office 2007 and OOO user who is very happy to see some desperatly needed UI iprovements.

Posted by Oscar on August 10, 2009 at 08:34 PM CEST #

I personally have found the ribbon interface of Office 2007 to be most intuitive and time saving. I shudder when I have to use other computers with Office 2003 and have to drill down through menus to do things that are a mere click in 2007. Given that I use Open Office at home I would like a cleaner interface but with the option to keep the old one for the wife's profile. It would be the best of both worlds.

Posted by Marc on August 10, 2009 at 10:03 PM CEST #

OO should try taking some design elements from Apple's Pages rather than MS Office. The latter is belabored with its own legacy and hardly the model of usability.

Could you try to use LESS screen real estate? Do we really need 5% of the application screen to be for copy and paste functions? Really? Crtl+C! Think of it this way: at most, the percentage of screen real estate a feature uses should be at most equal to the percentage of time spent using it.

Screen space is scarce and I like to use if for my project, not the interface with the project. Google Chrome is a nice model here.

Posted by philosofool on August 10, 2009 at 11:54 PM CEST #

Good god, please don't do this!
This is a horrible idea!

Why waste all that screen space?
Are you guys kidding? Seriously?
Look at the size of those buttons!
Look at the padding around that text!
NO, NO, just don't, it is bad enough Microsoft done it, not you too, please don't.

You could fit like 3-5 standard toolbars in that thing, all customized the way you like it.
With this thing, it is, "oh, i need to insert a pie chart, lets click the insert tab, click the huge pie chart image"
One extra click, but it all piles up through the day.

If you are going this route, regardless, then PLEASE make it an option.
How about make it default for all the nooby users, then have the standard toolbar interface behind View -> Standard Toolbars or similar. (then change it when it is clicked to Ribbon bar or whatever)

Posted by Terrible on August 11, 2009 at 12:35 AM CEST #

Wait up naysayers! Did you try the interface... all the variations? Or did you just reject it 'cause Microsoft do it that way? Fixedlabel toolbar variant 3 is brilliant on my baby 7.5" e3pc. The best features of both drop down menus and the ribbon!

I do a LOT of presentations, two or three a DAY at times, and this is the best UI I've seen! The ability to choose large or small icons would help, or simply make the drop-downs smaller/shallower.

Lets face it, the current toolbar is very cluttered, and the pop-up toolbars are damned annoying

Innovate or DIE!!!

PS, My Dyslexic son thinks it's absolutely brilliant, when can we have it???

Posted by Norm47 on August 11, 2009 at 12:56 AM CEST #

I don't think that the developer team on criticizing voices will hear.
I also think that they would like to hear only the consent and praise.
Who criticizes, this one is ignored and not taken seriously.
I am rather sure there.
They will try for certain to improve a couple of small things.
On great improvements or choice between the old and new UI I don't trust any more.
Some people will be happy with the Ergebniss.
However, many people are left in the rain.

The next version of prototyping comes at the end of next week, we then will see.

Posted by Muck on August 11, 2009 at 01:52 AM CEST #

Would like to see smaller buttons...or an option for smaller buttons, in case people are visually impaired. For general usage, more screen real estate would help. See InDesign CS (any version) for good ribbon-style layout.

Posted by Mike C on August 11, 2009 at 01:56 AM CEST #

Finally, please leave the user the choice of what to use, even if you decided to inject that "ribbon".

Posted by Jeenu V on August 11, 2009 at 03:28 AM CEST #

As a lover of carpol tunnel (extensive mouse and mouse wheel rolling), I just love the ribbon interface. In the past, I was able to edit a document or add cosmetics and formatting with very few mouse clicks or efforts. Now, it is roll, slide, roll, double click, open double click ....

Great for cramping the ligaments to the mouse hand.

Best to enhance current interface.

Posted by Leslie Satenstein on August 11, 2009 at 05:05 AM CEST #

Please don't ape MS Office. Rather I would prefer if OpenOffice uses an algorithm that allows Office to show in one-line command icons that are most used. Space is a scarce commodity and should not be wasted.

Posted by Iram Khan on August 11, 2009 at 05:24 AM CEST #

I have been using MS Office 2007 for 1 year and I still hate the ribbon.
The ribbon can not beat the simple concept of the toolbar button. When I need to drawing, just make the drawing tool bar appear and there I go.

If OOO some how need to make a ribbon, I suggest put in into the side bar. Lotus symphony apply a wonderful side bar concept. It would be nice if OOO make the side bar same as Ms ribbon and at the same time keep existing tool bar and menu.

Posted by lss on August 11, 2009 at 07:45 AM CEST #

Why do you have to copy M$-Style? No own ideas? I use OOo because of different reasons. One is that I think it's better. Please stop trying to copy that stuff!
Do you think you will get a lot of new users only by making OOo look like the office suite from redmond? I don't think so. Friends of mine even switched to OOo because it was easier to use than the facelifted Office 07.
So please stop this "innovation" and let OOo be the great application it is without being a 1-to-1-copy of this M$-sh..! Let OOo be the alternative that has no alternative!

Posted by pableo on August 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM CEST #

For me, I purely hate the idea. I am still struggling with the present UI. I do not want to learn a new one.

BUT... If this goes forward, then, as other suggest, please provide a choice of the current UI and the new UI. Feed back to the developers must be provided when a UI is chosen or changed, with user permission for sending feed back, of course. A choice could keep some of the disgruntled using OO.o and may attract new users.

Posted by David B Teague on August 11, 2009 at 12:13 PM CEST #

As an OO user I'm deeply disappointed. I like the toolbars to be unobtrusive and compact, to preserve screen area. The copy/paste command I use the most are: paste-image-like ... and past-text unformatted. I would hope there's a way to greatly customize each of these sections (have smaller buttons: these seem huge) and add/delete commands in each section, so that all (and only) the ones needed can be displayed.
Quite frankly, this seems a poor-man's copy of Office 2007 UI.
I can list tens of features that would be great having on Impress: Copy-format-per-text-box, auto-size, auto-arrange of boxes on a slide, variable template, set common base font-size, possibility to specify relative font-sizing, adaptive UI (add automatically any command executed via the menus, ranks them by # of clicks needed and occurrence), ...

Posted by yankeeDDL on August 11, 2009 at 02:23 PM CEST #

I have been in the industry for 30+ years. I am Ivy League Educated, and I design and develop software for several platforms. I have used probably every office tool on the market. I have also been trained in building effective user interfaces.

I remember the uproar when WordPerfect moved to the primary mouse interface away from the keystroke due to the O/S market trending to Windows. This was the right move. We needed to shift away from the keystroke driven interface. This was a "Tranformational" step that needed to occur in the industry.

I have been using the M/S Office with the Ribbon interface for over a year, because of my corporate job. I HATE IT! No one, except M/S Marketing people, have any use for it. It is not Tranformational. I find myself constantly shutting down the ribbon so I can see mor of my document, because it waste so much screen space, or moving the document to another computer so I can use an older version word processor.

Whats even worse is that as the complexity of your document increases, the more difficult it is to use the M/S Office product. I CAN'T FIND basic functions. It takes me 5 minutes each time to figure out where basic functions are located. This is because THE RIBBON INTERFACE Is NOT INTUITIVE!

Spend the time and money ensuring that all formatting features in the word processor work effectively and closely mimic Word and the commercial products.

Please do not make this mistake! There is no improved capability or real value in moving to a ribbon. Many at M/S objected to this direction, and most of their corporate customers hate the interface. Don't fall for the hype.

So keep researching true improvements and leap-frog M/S Office, but this is NOT the opportunity.

Posted by OpenMindedSteve on August 11, 2009 at 02:37 PM CEST #

Its just awfull. This step is 180 degress from right direction. This interface is waste of work area space. From many modern Word-like applications best interface have Google Docs, second is Apple Pages. Why you don't copy innovations and try to get worst mistakes from Microsoft products?

Apple Numbers is something that changed my expirience, why OO dont make something new in usability and user expirience? What is OO for users? Just copy of Microsoft products?

Posted by Mikhail on August 11, 2009 at 02:59 PM CEST #

There's good & bad points to MSO2007's ribbon. Most of which is noted in the comments already. I've had experience of both sides:
Cons
1. Having to search around for a function I knew I could do in 2003 ... but now it's just not visible.
2. Some keyboard shortcuts are changed at best, or became cumbersome at worst. E.g. I used to use Alt+E+S for Paste Special ... try do that with the ribbon!
3. Uses up way too much space, especially on a wide screen.

Pros
1. Found some nifty features especially with pics & tables become quite easy to use

Another product I've used apes the ribbon as well since it's 2009 version. The product is AutoCAD. However, they've implemented the ribbon as a movable, dockable & autohiding palette. Which can be mounted on any of the 4 sides of the screen.

Basically I use it's Anchor to left method. In which case the entire ribbon is collapsed into a vertical bar showing only the main sections (as here it'd be Start Insert Design Animate ....). Then when you move the cursor over one the "ribbon" floats out to the right. This way you get even more screen real-estate while having the ribbon's UI.

BTW, they've also allowed for a Classic UI option to revert back to menu & toolbars.

I'm not saying it's the best possible, but it certainly is MUCH better than MSO2007. Just goes to show ... don't ape the money grabbers ... at worst OOo should copy & amalgamate the best from ALL POSSIBLE SOURCES (not just M$) ... at best they should innovate something even better than already exists.

Posted by irneb on August 11, 2009 at 03:57 PM CEST #

Here is an idea. Like was mentioned earlier give people options. My main gripe with Office 07 is that there is no way to revert to the older tool bars.

So Sun, show Microsoft the power of the open source community that exists out there and give people OPTIONS. So for instance...during installation or during the first start of the application give users the choice to choose between a toolbar view or a tabbed view. Also give the user a quick way to change between the two if necessary. Part of the problem that Open Source faces is the noise of the crowd. However, there is power in community. Giving users options is one thing that Microsoft never does. If we can give options, then it can become a selling point for Open Office. "Do you like the ribbon of office 2007 but hate the cost?" Give Open Office a try. Conversely you can also say that "Open office is about choice. Dont like the ribbon? You have a choice. Like the ribbon but hate the cost? You have a choice."

Just sayin...

Posted by David on August 11, 2009 at 04:19 PM CEST #

Please - NO RIBBON!

I am a power user of Microsoft's Office and have customized every toolbar available, especially in PowerPoint. (I have toolbars on 3 of the four sides.) This enables me to speed up the work I do for my employer.
"Re-learn" only applies to those who never customized anything. I don't need or want a ribbon but I do want the ability to customize toolbars to fit the application work I do.

Posted by Dick Yezek on August 11, 2009 at 10:14 PM CEST #

Ugly! and copying M$... : (

Do you know what I wish to see in OOo? tab browsing of files in a single instance and a side bar (yes, just like Symphony).

Posted by Andrés Bracho on August 12, 2009 at 12:49 AM CEST #

NO WAY! The ribbon just sucks! It is the worst UI invention ever. It uses excessive amounts of space, requires the same amount of clicks if not more, and generally makes using software more difficult.
Just look at the sample above, the same functionality can be placed into an eighth of the space with way less ambiguity. What good does a big fat button with "Copy" on it do different than a menu command besides using up a lot of precious screen space?
If anything, make OOo have it both ways, a functional menu as currently and the ribbon for those who love oversized and unintelligible icons that look as if they are from a FisherPrice catalog.

Posted by David on August 12, 2009 at 02:48 AM CEST #

I think that unless there is an ability to switch between normal UI and Ribbon UI this should not go into production.

Original MS Ribbon UI does not allow customization. Even in Office 2010 they will only allow very limited amount of customization. Implementing fully customizable Ribbon UI might appeal to customers frustrated with MS implementation.

Posted by Vyacheslav Lanovets on August 12, 2009 at 06:51 AM CEST #

Please make this optional, the ribbon is bad solution!!! I hate in work.

Posted by Andrej on August 12, 2009 at 10:14 AM CEST #

Please make this optional, the ribbon is bad solution!!! I have in work in office 2007, but i with my colegue hate is.

Posted by Andrej on August 12, 2009 at 10:15 AM CEST #

I would love a ribbon-like interface, menus are dated and for people that don't like change. Come on, this is technology, it is supposed to improve all the time. The ribbon interface was the only reason for buying the (student edition) Office 2007, and I love it.

Posted by Davide on August 12, 2009 at 10:16 AM CEST #

Great to see that OOo evokes a lot of engaged comments! :-)

I, like many others above, worry that the new GUI would was to much vertical screen space. Some alternative layout for netbooks would be a must.

Instead of a ribbon style layout I hope OOo greatly improves the ways for users to customize the regular top toolbar layout. The current system for that is almost useless.

Add ways for VERY simply rearranging the toolbars AND adding almost any command (and simple scripts. BTW, the scripting system also is a pure nightmare. Only professional programmers can use it).

Then add a way to instantly switch between, save, export/import such GUI layouts! So users could have a hotkey for toggling in/out of netbook GUI mode.

Finally, great that you use Impress as the case here. Because Impress is the one OOo app that feels most neglected. There seem to have been no real feature updates for it during the last years and the OOo support forums online are swamped with feature requests for obvious and simple improvements that keep getting ignored. Without immediate changes my bet is that large chucks of the userbase will have moved on to Googles office apps (with google gears) within a year.

Posted by Thomas on August 12, 2009 at 12:15 PM CEST #

this design is awful the ribbon is confusing, especialy as most schools, colleges and unis still run win 2003/xp so don't have the ribbon. i found it really hard to do basic things, and im in the under 25 category. if it is essential fo OO to change the layout, at least give an option for the classic view (menus) to be shown. alternatively copy corel instead of MS. I started usng OO more to get away from the ribbon, if OO use it the incentive for me using this software dissipates. adapr Wordperfect's or lotus' please UI instead. If this is meant to be a renaissance it is not, this renaissance occured with MS 2007! Create your own renaissance!

Posted by James on August 12, 2009 at 01:29 PM CEST #

The ribbon design is okay for a completely clueless user as stated in some previous comments.

The important part for OOo to consider is to make it a choice not a forced default.

When you already are familliar with the function you are looking for and where it logically is placed in the menu structure ( or the keyboard shortcut for it ), the ribbon just gets in your way.

I am confident that OOo will not go and release a product that will piss off 80% of it's loyal users by forcing someone to use a UI that you hate..

Posted by everlong on August 12, 2009 at 01:44 PM CEST #

HELLL NOOOO!!!, sorry, but copying the uberFAIL in interface design from microsoft is the worst thing you could do. Why can't you make a sensible interface like the one Lotus Symphony has. Not only is it good with screen real-estate, but its far more functional and intuitive than the nightmarish ribbons.

Posted by animaniac on August 12, 2009 at 02:06 PM CEST #

The MS Ribbon interface is only good for beginners. For power users it is just an annoyance, that slows you down and wastes screen space.

If something like this needs to be implemented to lure mainstream people to OpenOffice, fine then do it.. but please make it optional (and don't stop developing the old interface).

Posted by Sesam on August 12, 2009 at 02:22 PM CEST #

Look at the Chinese RedOffice too, that's another reasonable design. Although I still would prefer Lotus Symphony style, the UI RedOffice has looks like it might be appealing to MS Office users.

I don't speak mandarin, but the just click around, and you still understand the UI even if everything is in Chinese:

products.redoffice.com/show/fshow.php?showname=prodesk.swf

Posted by animaniac on August 12, 2009 at 02:41 PM CEST #

I don't understand the whole, "Ribbons are fail LoL!!1" argument. Personally, I like the Office 2k7 ribbons - I thought they were a nice innovation. One quickly adjusts to them.

This leads me to believe that:
1) You didn't even try to use it (5 minutes or less doesn't count); OR
2) You get some kind of pleasure out of ragging on MS; OR
3) You've never seen it, or used it, but simply follow popular opinion; OR
4) You genuinely didn't like it.

I just find the whole vibe to be fishy - as soon as Apple craps something out, it's visionary - when MS does something different, it's instantly flamed.

I think you people are bitching based on principle, and should get over yourselves.

Posted by Alexis on August 12, 2009 at 02:57 PM CEST #

For most, the problem of the MS Office 2007's ribbon is not the idea of a ribbon, but its implementation and lack of customization. I just finished watching the You-Tube article from "jensenh" on the ribbon's design. One thing our organization quickly realized was from Office XP/2003 to Office 2007 was a large retraining requirement for Office 2007. With a small IT team, no training department, upgrading en-mass to Office 2007 was not feasible. Had Microsoft had availed a XP/2003 styled ribbon option in 2007 to assist in the upgrade process, this would be valuable. (I did find an aftermarket plug-in for 2007, that gave 2007 XP/2003 menus. Not completely smooth and another cost...)

Personally, I do not like the way Microsoft deployed the ribbon. It takes up too much real estate. The minimize option is too annoying. A reduced bar that does not pop in and out might have been nice.

In "jensenh" presentation, an early prototype show a tabbed version for Office 2007. I was really curious about that.

I like the Mozilla foundation's style of UI, perhaps OOo could incorporate some of Mozilla's menu lessons and some of Microsoft's Office 2007 UI lessons.

But for OOo, don't just be a Microsoft Office clone. Be a great Office suite of tools that users can really use. Whether for free or for cost.

Microsoft did not get where they are by being good at products. The are where they are by controlling... They products are okay. Note, NT does not stand for New Technology, it really stands for "Nice Try". The O/S is okay and it really is a "Nice Try" at an O/S. Nothing in it is "new technology", only the packaging of the technology was new. Microsoft Office is similar in this regard.

My $0.02 worth...

Posted by Tim Neto on August 12, 2009 at 04:04 PM CEST #

Hey people,
- we can on the reason of the renaissance team appeal,
- we can pray, they shall not break OOo in this way.

-> But will they listen to us? I don't think.
I think the Renasisance team is hard, they will do what they want.

I am already looking for an OOo-alternative now, whether for free or for cost.
(Otherwise what shall I do?)

Posted by Muck on August 12, 2009 at 05:51 PM CEST #

@muck:

Stop whining?

Posted by Oswald Prucker on August 12, 2009 at 09:23 PM CEST #

Having used the Ribbons in 2007 at work for almost a year now, I can say that I'm used to them, and I still don't like them. My biggest complaints are (biggest complaints first):
- You can't customize them AT ALL!
- Some buttons are in different locations depending on the ribbon you're in (ie.- Powerpoint's Home tab, the Shape Fill is nearly all the way to the right, but in Format tab, it's right in the middle). Idiotic.
- It's much more difficult to figure out shortcut keys (in the old menu system, they were the underlined characters)
- They are too large, and take too much real estate.

If implemented in OOO, I would like to see the following:
- An option to use either classic Menus, or the Ribbon
- The ability to customize what is actually shown in each ribbon
- The ability to resize the buttons in the ribbon (maybe I don't want Cut/Paste to be huge buttons that take up tons of space)
- The ability to move the ribbon somewhere else (left/right/bottom of the screen)
- A mouseover for each button that displays the appropriate keyboard shortcut (if available)
- Bonus feature: the ability to modify how each button is displayed (different text, maybe a different picture, etc).

Posted by Steve on August 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM CEST #

I changed form MS office to openoffice because of the ribbon. It would be a HUGE mistake to go in that direction without allowing the users to keep the standard interface.
It think it will not be a Renaissance, but a plain suicide.

Posted by Kurt Vignola on August 13, 2009 at 03:50 AM CEST #

users dont like it

http://makeofficebetter.com/Office/2

Posted by scarpo on August 13, 2009 at 10:52 AM CEST #

I have to agree 100% with what Steve said in this comment: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_ui_july#comment-1250109014000

Posted by d3bruts1d on August 13, 2009 at 02:44 PM CEST #

Although it took a limited amount of time to learn the new features and capabilities that the ribbon provides, it was a a boon for MS office users. If OO wishes to remain competitive and relevant, OO should embrace the newer paradigms that boost productivity rather than be mired in the past by a vocal minority of change-averse naysayers.

Posted by Steven on August 13, 2009 at 03:41 PM CEST #

I like it, It gets my vote, I think it would look great on Ubuntu 9.4. And its likely to scare the pants off Microsoft.

Posted by Carl on August 13, 2009 at 03:49 PM CEST #

I like it.

I do prefer MS Office 2007 over Open Office because of the ability to make more professional better looking documnets due to templates and design tools.

But. I use Ubuntu and I would rather prefer Open Office for philosophical and Linux reasons however that is not yet the case... I hope it is soon.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Open Office.

Posted by TL on August 13, 2009 at 06:02 PM CEST #

Templates are a different matter, look at the OOo extensions pages ... especially for Impress templates IMHO there's more templates available for OOo than MSO

This whole UI thing can be done better. The ribbon has problems ... period ... it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Rather take it as a step towards a much better implemented & used UI ... that'll make M$ really shiver themselves to the toilet!

Posted by Irne Barnard on August 13, 2009 at 06:48 PM CEST #

I like the look. But make sure you also go through *all* of the user interface and give it some more polish and simplification. I am a fan of OpenOffice, but sometimes it feels like it is fighting me. Case in point: date auto-conversion in spreadsheets.

Maybe you should have an open competition for a UI redesign. This might make it possible -- with or without ribbons -- to go one step beyond what Microsoft currently does instead of simply copying them.

Posted by Axel Rauschmayer on August 13, 2009 at 08:37 PM CEST #

I want to go away from OOo, but I wouldn't like certainly to use MSO.
Somebody who knows a good alternative to OOo?
For Windows and in German (or English with a German language package).

It doesn't have to be unconditionally for free.
Does someone have good experience made with another Office Suite?
What can you recommend me?

Thank's and kind regards

Posted by Jans on August 13, 2009 at 09:48 PM CEST #

Why not an interface like Koffice 2?
Today, the "Ribbon" of Office 2007 is horrible for 16:9 screens and for 4:3 screens too. I prefer something like that http://blogs.developpeur.org/blogs/fremycompany/image_12E43C32.png .

Posted by Spatz on August 14, 2009 at 11:25 AM CEST #

I have the impression that the developers develop in their coin, and the users use in another coin. Just making a bad joke.
More seriously : was there any survey done in the user groups about what users need most in user interface useability ? Here is a world-wide user community that is ready to help the developers so that the user experience makes OOo THE office product,
so : First ask the user community,
then : develop.

BTW: I would prefer an OOo that runs bug-free under all conditions that one with lots of fancy gadgets every other year that few beyond the geeks will use - if we want to become a majority player.

My 2 centimes.
Frank

Posted by ftr on August 14, 2009 at 01:06 PM CEST #

A ribbon interface is Bad. Although people claim that it is good due to the fact that you can click on buttons, what about those who are happy with using the keyboard for menu navigation? What about us on the Netbooks and widescreen monitors? Having a glorified tab control with buttons on it (aka The Ribbon) isn't helpful, nor is it "intuitive". It is easier to read menu items than look at strange icons with text beneath them, all arranged in a non-uniform fashion.

I strongly reject the Ribbon proposal. If the old system works, why "fix" it?

Posted by Sire on August 14, 2009 at 02:55 PM CEST #

UPDATE

The survey - feedback has a new address
http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_user_interface

Comments can be made by the end of next week.
Let us use our chance before it is too late!

Peter

Posted by Peter on August 14, 2009 at 05:26 PM CEST #

Come on, this sucks. This interface looks like shi*y M$ Office 2007 :S

Posted by Lgn on August 16, 2009 at 03:52 PM CEST #

I use the ribbon interface of office at my work and I really like it, I think this prototype is a good idea for OpenOffice.
I tried the different options for this prototype and I think that the better option is the tabbed version

Posted by Paul on August 18, 2009 at 12:41 AM CEST #

Tabbed version is much better. I hate MS office 2007 too, why change the format?

Posted by office moves and changes on August 18, 2009 at 02:47 PM CEST #

I believe the development team has their hearts in the right place, but copying MS Ribbons (more or less) is not a good idea.

I thought one of the ideas behind Linux and its apps was to show how much better (in most cases) the OS'es and apps can be. Why is OOo trying to portray MS apps? This is just showing how non-creative the Linux community is, definitely a step in the wrong direction.

Why not spend the time developing a new way/style of menu interaction that will set the Linux community apart from MS. This would seem to make the most sense if we are going to have to “learn” a new menu system in OOo.

If the ribbons style is going to be implemented, there should be an option to enable/disable the classic & ribbons menus. The classic menu should be the default menu.

ST

Posted by stripedtomato on August 18, 2009 at 05:06 PM CEST #

Ribbons or not - this was not attractive in the SLIGHTEST. Sorry, guys... utter FAIL

Posted by Uhmm.... on August 18, 2009 at 06:48 PM CEST #

On the August, side for feedback is no commentary possible.
White someone why let nothing more through becomes?
I wanted to write something nice, but they do not want to hear that.

Posted by Colin on August 18, 2009 at 10:58 PM CEST #

i don't think there is cause for concern for the users because most probably OOo will retain the classic toolbars as a fallback...

the power users who like that can keep that and the newbies will get the tabbed menu interface, as i like to call it.

please don't criticize bluntly.. the renaissance team is doing good work. the tabbed toolbar will allow newbies to use the power of OOo with ease. they are the ones that are going to benefit the most out of this...

Posted by prakreet on August 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM CEST #

This interface is not a improvement. I think it's better to make other things like improve native statistical functions (see plugin R4Calc - it would be great this functions).

Posted by Ernane Duarte Nunes on August 19, 2009 at 01:11 PM CEST #

The ribbon looks awesome. It's easier to use than the old UI. But making it look like google chrome would look even better!

Posted by Ray on August 22, 2009 at 01:01 AM CEST #

The ribbon thing is awesome but please include the classic UI too.

Posted by frt on August 22, 2009 at 04:44 PM CEST #

looks great. It's a great idea change de clasic interface for this one. But I'm not sure if the fans of OO accept this than easily. So I think it's a good idea that the clasic interface is an option.

Sorry for my englosh

Posted by Pablo N. on August 22, 2009 at 06:50 PM CEST #

This is totally incredible. I told my friends about this and they all said it looks great.

Posted by Internet marketing on August 24, 2009 at 01:54 PM CEST #

This is great and it looks so too. Gotta run but I'll be back.

Posted by Strani jezici on August 24, 2009 at 01:56 PM CEST #

Hey, this really is great and it looks awesome. Thx for the update.

Posted by Affiliate marketing on August 24, 2009 at 01:57 PM CEST #

Don't go there, it is way too over designed, a solution looking for a problem. Do something... new?
Ribbon UI is why I won't buy Office, and have recommended either staying with Office 2003 or OO to all my clients. If OO goes ribbon, then it is definitely hello Google Docs.

Posted by SooP on August 24, 2009 at 05:00 PM CEST #

I completely agree with "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

Posted by J on August 24, 2009 at 06:28 PM CEST #

Whoever would like can sign the petition *stop openoffice renaissance*
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/

Posted by Robert on August 24, 2009 at 06:58 PM CEST #

I really like this, I think it's better then the MS Office ribbon, as it uses the same approach for more than just a clever toolbar.

I know a lot of people hate the ribbon, but I think that's just because it's different from what they're used to, different is not neccesarily worse. I'm forced to use office at work a lot, and it didn't take me long to figure out where everything was, it's all grouped functionally.

Much easier to learn than having to wade through menu after menu...

keep up the good work.

Posted by Matt on August 26, 2009 at 01:25 AM CEST #

No, please.... NO!

Posted by leonardo on August 26, 2009 at 02:18 AM CEST #

Even though I personally hate the ribbon, I think it's a great idea to include it in Open Office.

Why?

The goal is to provide a functional replacement for Microsoft Office, so it makes sense to provide a product that works just like Microsoft Office, or at least very close to it.

Give the users a choice. If you don't like the ribbon (like me), don't use it.

Why can't Open Office include more than one user interface?

Posted by William R. Cousert on August 26, 2009 at 11:01 AM CEST #

Despite all the negative comments, I like the new interface and applaud the designers who are genuinely trying to make open source software more accessible to the general public.

This is the ultimate goal which all of us, the open source users, strive towards. Leaving angry comments out there for the media to misinterpret and quote out of context is shooting yourselves in the foot.

If I could make a suggestion I would like to say that I wish the pre-installed templates and galleries that accompany the interface enjoyed the same level of attention. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication.

Posted by FC Truter on August 26, 2009 at 08:06 PM CEST #

Regardless of whether a ribbon is a good UI-Design or not: it will make people think of OpenOffice as a MS-Clone and the people behind OpenOffice as ones, who are not able to come with real unique or new idea.

MS Ribbon was a new idea - or at least the UI was not known by the most people, so it was taken as a new feature (maybe a bad one, but unique).

You may find some details, which will show that your ribbon differs from the MS ones - but the first thought by many people is or will be: "uh... again, the Open Office guys just stole the next idea from MS".

Simply: bad marketing.

Regards

Posted by peace07 on August 27, 2009 at 11:32 AM CEST #

What's wrong with giving people a choice? If Microsoft keeps their ribbon, then the next generation of Office users will learn with that ribbon. Moving to Open Office will be a major pain for them.

Did you know that early versions of Microsoft Office copied the interface of both Lotus 123 and Word Perfect? It too was optional. This allowed users of those programs to make an easier transition to Microsoft Office. Why can't Open Office do the same?

Posted by William R. Cousert on August 27, 2009 at 05:40 PM CEST #

I'm not sure why folks are assuming there wouldn't be a choice of what interface to use, or that it will be a complete clone of the Office 2007 UI. It could be something new, in between.

I don't think there's a problem with using design elements from Office 2007 in the next release of OO. It works, and people will be familiar with it. I personally didn't really like it so much at first but now I do, and would miss it while using OO.

It in no way means you won't still have a menu bar, or an option to switch back and forth, or whatever.

I'm thinking that the OO team might just refrain from posting these previews until a better looking mock-up is available.

Posted by Joseph Jamieson on August 27, 2009 at 06:23 PM CEST #

This ribbon clone is extremely ugly. I don't understand why these folks just can't make the core apps run faster, instead of attempting to copy Office '07.
From all the complaints I've heard, it's manly that the applications start-up time and memory usage; you never heard folks begging for the silly ribbon interface to be added.

Posted by CW on August 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM CEST #

"asdf987" is right; Open Office IS bloated and slow, and THAT'S the reason why most people don't like using it! There is no reason to be building a word processor in Java in the first place. Now there's going to be a big, goofy, ribbon-cloned toolbar up top...just wonderful! You guys should really start paying attention to what we end-users really want. This suite is starting to be a joke.

Posted by untitled on August 31, 2009 at 01:11 AM CEST #

A lot of very useable comments here. Like the ribbon sucks!! Would seem to me that these are people who don't use Office on a daily basis or they would know that it is more or less the defacto standard in large corporations. These "ribbon sucks" are not Office users just MS haters. Not that I have any liking for MS, but copying success is not such a bad thing. MS after all has spent more than the entire Oo budget just researching this subject. McDonalds also spend a lot on determining business geography of outlet locations, Burger King does not but they just set up beside McDonalds. So this UI is OK, just needs optimized functionality and beautification. Same as the anti aliasing was a major improvement, not out of place in a corporate setting.

Posted by bigpicture on September 01, 2009 at 02:18 AM CEST #

Hi

No, I'm not a MS-hating person. But I just cannot work with that colorful candybox in the top of the screen. I have learned reading and writing in the school and nobody can take this away from me. If MS-Users are happy with the ribbons - ok. I let them their fun. But I choose openOffice and I do not need pictures to navigate through an office program. If I need to, I can choose MS-Office. But if openOffice just copy this..in my eyes rubbish.. what kind of choice do I have? Just to join people they have enough time to klick all day long???
Would you drive a car with just 3 wheels, a steering rod instaed of a wheel and so on?
Even if you buy a new car, the basic buttons, pedals and so on have to be in the same place as in the old car.
That's all what users want.

Wolf

Posted by Wolf on September 01, 2009 at 06:24 PM CEST #

If you gonna make big panel as MS office 2007 has, please make it possible to move it to the side. All screens are now getting wide screen. The big panel on the current position would take a lot of usable space. I prefer to move it to the side. And don't forget the option to revert to an old look!

Maybe it would be a good idea to take a look at programming IDEs like Eclipse or Netbeans, they seem to take good care of usable space.

Posted by danizmax on September 02, 2009 at 09:26 AM CEST #

Copying MS-Office 2007 UI is not a good idea.
In fact, one of argument used by partner and IT for ask the user to change to OpenOffice.org is the user interface (it's the same than office 2003).

M$ try always to force user to change her Office/OS version for the latest.
And MS failed this...
Why : user interface
See the case Windows XP vs Windows Vista !
For Microsoft, most of user use Office 2003, because Office 2007 must have learned and it cost.

Each OOo migration must be accompanied by a formation, but the interface is the same than MSO 97, 2000
, XP - it's more easy.

The developers working on OOo is small and actually theses developer prefer to change UI than try to resolve bug or a functionality asked in bug traker ! is not logic.

This is my point of view

Posted by xinos03 on September 02, 2009 at 01:22 PM CEST #

im waiting ribbon interface on openoffice. when it release i will use openoffice forever. because ribbon interface is really user friendly and simple. have a nice work developpers.

Posted by akin on September 02, 2009 at 09:56 PM CEST #

I Have downloaded the JAVA-demonstration and I can say now - OK it is different from MS-Office with what I have to work at work now. At least the pull down menu at top of screen is still available. The ribbon is like an add on. If the pull down menus are still available and may be it is possible to hide the ribbon if not useful, then OK.
But DO NOT REMOVE the pull down menus with the short cuts we are get used to.
Then I can accept it and it is a big different to the MS-Office.
I must use it at work and it sucks. I find almost nothing anymore and I have my private Notebook-computer also on my desk. Then I create the basic things with openOffice, safe it in MSxxx and the final little things I try to do with "Ribbon-Office.

Wolf

Posted by Wolf on September 03, 2009 at 01:31 PM CEST #

I just don't get it. I just used the Java prototype and I'm still not impressed. WHY WHY WHY do UI designers feel the need to obliterate usable screen real estate with needless icons, meaningless words and other paraphenalia. Leave the Interface as blank as possible and make EVERYTHING accessible with a right mouse click. Watch someone who can actually manipulate a word processor, (not a hunt-pecker), and you'll see their first move is the right mouse click for a menu of options. If it's not there, THEN they navigate the obligatory menus and icons at the top/side. What's wrong with a UI like that??????

Posted by Don Morse on September 03, 2009 at 06:22 PM CEST #

Dear staff and volunteers at Project Renaissance,
people may bash about MS - I just don't care. The point I want to make that the development of OOo's new interface *seems* dishonest with users. Why?
1. Sun wants to sell StarOffice.
2. StarOffice is based on OOo.
3. Many users have changed to SO/OOo because it used to be very similar to MS Office.
3. If Sun wants to be as similary successful with selling StarOffice as they have been, they should come close to the UI of that dominating office suite.
So far everything is about business and this is perfectly alright with me.

BUT: Why do developers on Sun's payroll ask users and take care of their wishes and the result is a copy of MS Office?

I have two explanations:
1. What users want is a copy of MS Office at lower costs.
2. Developers paid by Sun just disregard users' input.

Is it possible that Sun massively influences this decision with regard to business at the cost of what users actually want?

If you want to copy MS office for profit reasons then just go ahead with it, but don't ask users!

Regards,
-Stefan

Posted by Stefan Bischof on September 05, 2009 at 01:05 PM CEST #

If I might offer a more practical opinion.

As someone who spends quite a bit of time in Writer actually writing, I think replicating the ribbon interface is a mistake only in that it does two things you may not want.

Firstly, it confuses existing users who have trained on the current one. A transition should be more gradual. Offer both interfaces for a reasonable time.

Everyone is objecting, or praising, but why? There are no specifics offered. The truth of the matter is really simple. The average user does not use 2/3rds of the current menus, and only uses features based on need. This is not a justification for removing unused those features. I'm saying rather that what they use is on the icon bar, with a few custom things added such as a “notes” icon.

The second reason that you should consider is that in copying Microsoft's ribbon concept so closely, you are overlooking possibilities of your own creation, which is probably an even greater mistake. The ribbon interface suffers from one major problem, it is really hard to find anything with those silly tabs.

The tabs are named things such as “Data,” and to me that word means absolutely nothing in the context of writing. I know what it is “for” but it serves no purpose to me to have it on some tab with inconsistently sized icons that try to grab my eyes for my attention, when I'm in fact searching for something that used to already be on my default icon bar, and needed no searching.

If you must use a ribbon, please learn from the mistakes. Place everything commonly used on the first visible tab, and allow users to add tabs of their own or items to tabs. Ask actual users, not programmers for input at each stage.

Programmers are biased in the extreme, and honestly their opinions of interface design are worthless because each has an emotional stake in their own methods. Regular users are more concerned with “How can I do something quickly and easily?”

I'm interested in writing, and I love my notes in the margins – best feature ever! So what is my mindset? I want better notes and the ability to organize what I do – (not what you think I do) - quickly and easily. I don't care about what kind of menu, but how much inconvenience or help it will be to me as I write.

Posted by T.J. on September 06, 2009 at 11:08 AM CEST #

a new ribbon interface are better than old interfaces, because it's user friendly. I think professionals love it, too..

thanks developers

Posted by çanta tekstil aksesuar on September 06, 2009 at 05:32 PM CEST #

I signed yesterday the Petiton
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/

Why did I do that?
I worry greatly that the Renaissance harms the OOo.
I would not like, the OOo is broken.
And I wouldn't want that the users run away from OOo.

Posted by Bernd on September 07, 2009 at 07:11 PM CEST #

I signed this petition too:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/
Don't butcher the OOo UserInterface with these space-eating ribbon stuff! Think of widescreen users. Keep the simplicity of the great software suite!
Why do you want users to relearn the whole software from scratch? I hate the Office 2007 for this design. PLEASE leave the UI as it is...

Posted by Mario on September 08, 2009 at 08:53 PM CEST #

I really think this is a very bad move. I have yet to meet someone who thinks ribbon is an improvement to normal menus.

Spend the time and effort doing something better instead of mimicing the one thing people i know detest about MS Office 2007, both corporate (huge retraining costs, a nightmare to support) and private users.

After having tried the demo im even more convinced. It makes it harder for people trained on earlier Office versions while it doesnt make anything easier for beginners.

My opinion is that OpenOffice is ready to fly on its own and develop into something better than MS Office 2007.

Posted by Daniel Hedblom on September 09, 2009 at 12:06 AM CEST #

I also hate the ribbon, but what if it was dock-able on the side?
Most times the space on the side is substantially wasted.
I don't really feel the need for moving away from the current toolbars, but as an OPTIONAL toolbar, dockable on the side to avoid precious space-eating, it may be a plus.

Posted by yankeeDDL on September 09, 2009 at 09:33 AM CEST #

Great said yankeeDDL. This is exactly what I was thinking about. If there is gonna be a ribbon, it HAS to be optional, because many people will disable it. Especially if there is gonna be an option at first run like old style/new style like Macromedia Dreamviewer has.

Posted by danizmax on September 09, 2009 at 09:57 AM CEST #

Just installed Ubuntu on a new machine. This came with Open Office 3.0. In exploring panels, I discovered something I was not aware of before, the Drawer. I think this would be a fantastic item to be able to paste one onto the menu bar, then able to paste into the drawer the tools you wanted to use.

When I use Open Office, I will remove the toolbars so that I have less clutter. I hope that the "ribbon" can likewise be removed.

Open Office will benefit from conforming to the way users want to use the tool, not the way Microsoft wants you to use the tool. If you want to have a "Microsoft" theme to make Open Office more comfortable to MS Office workers, that is OK with me, as long as I have the ability to retain the functionality and format that I have already found most productive.

Posted by Gostak on September 09, 2009 at 03:44 PM CEST #

HI EVERYONE

THERE ARE SEVERAL OPINIONS. EVERYONE HERE HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS IT.
IN MY CASE, LET OOF EVOLVE AS LONG THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY TO CHOOSE THE MOST CONVINIENT UI.
THIS NEW LOOK MIGHT BRING NEW USERS.

REGRADS

Posted by 82.155.121.78 on September 11, 2009 at 11:51 AM CEST #

If you really want some current MS 07 users, and possible MS 03, to seriously consider switching to OOo; I recommend considering a couple things:

1) The new UI Ribbon, with an option to enable/disable it within preferences; allowing users to keep the interface they are familiar with. (I actually like the ribbon and can't stand using only dropdown menus for feature navigation.)
2) Sandboxing; I've heard that MS Office 2010 is going to implement this feature, and I know it seems like copying, but I think it's a great idea for security reasons, it can add another level of security. Plus, I mean who needs an office document with read/write access to the OS? That's just asking for trouble.

Whatever is decided, I'll still keep OOo in mind, but I personally need a easy to use UI that doesn't require drop-menus within drop-menus to use a single office feature. Good luck whatever direction is chosen.

Posted by smokingplatypus on September 13, 2009 at 05:29 AM CEST #

I like the idea, but do not put the "ribbon" on top, but at the side...
like suggested by some...

we need a prototype to test b4 we can say if it is a good thing or a bad one.

with love
Gego/XAREN

Posted by Gustav Hartvigsson on September 15, 2009 at 01:37 PM CEST #

It's that @&*(@& ribbon interface in Office 2k7 that drove me to use OpenOffice in the first place. Please do NOT implement this, or if you must, at least retain an option to use the old UI. Many many people do not like change just for the sake of change.

Posted by James on September 19, 2009 at 08:29 PM CEST #

if you are against OOo Ribbonization please sign this petition here:

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/stoprenaissance/

439 users did after 1 month.

SIGN the petition but DO NOT click on advertising banner which are linked to scam sites.

Posted by Tommy on September 21, 2009 at 09:38 AM CEST #

If you want to copy something good, WHY DON'T YOU COPY the interface and really GOOD functionalities of Apple's Keynote, Pages and Numbers?

Posted by Alex Rojo on September 23, 2009 at 02:38 PM CEST #

What?

I moved to OpenOffice so that i need not to see these DARN Office 2007 Ribbons anymore ever again :(

Posted by Erinik on September 23, 2009 at 03:15 PM CEST #

Go for it, just make sure that it is optional and dockable.

This would make OOo,org a big improvement over MS Office, a product I must work with every day.

BTW, I use Linux as my desktop and OOo.org as my office suite for my personal work.

Posted by jmbuser on September 24, 2009 at 06:06 PM CEST #

Oh damn.... that's UGLY !

Posted by john doe on September 26, 2009 at 04:19 PM CEST #

Non fatelo, è estremamente brutto.
Do not do it, it is extremely ugly.

Posted by Stefano Dall'Agata on September 27, 2009 at 11:02 PM CEST #

The user experience blog lists a new entry with Questions, Answers and an Interview about Project Renaissance:
http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2009/09/questions-answers-and-interview.html

Posted by Stefan Taxhet on September 28, 2009 at 12:37 PM CEST #