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Dom Nardella, Program Director, WKRK/Cleveland
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Howard Petruziello, Vice President Promotion, Capitol Music Group |  |
Howard: Many, probably most, people who get into radio lead a nomadic life for a good part of their careers but you have been able to stay within a couple of hours of where you grew up. Was that your plan or did you just get lucky?
Nard: I honestly never had a plan. Back in the 90s, I spent as much time in Cleveland as I did Youngstown, going to concerts and baseball games. When this opportunity presented itself, it was like relocating to my second home. I absolutely love it here. We have a great Metroparks system that is maintained year-round… anytime I want to bike / hike / walk / jog… the trails are clear, no matter what the weather. I live Downtown so I am within walking distance of all the sports venues, House of Blues, great restaurants… it’s perfect.
Howard: Your station has gone through many changes, from very Alternative, to very Active-leaning and now a more balanced sound. Also gaining and then losing a major morning show as well as several call letter changes. Knowing that the audience moves and adapts to changes more slowly than you would like them to, how do you think those changes affected the perception of the station in Cleveland? In some ways did you feel like you were starting from scratch when you launched the station in the current incarnation?
Nard: The 92.3 frequency in Cleveland has had more format and call letter changes associated with it than any other Cleveland station, so perception was stacked against us from day one! When we were building Radio 92.3, we wanted to hang on to those P1s we had, the fans of the 90s Alternative hits, the songs they remember from 107.9 The End (legendary Alternative station in Cleveland during the 90s), but we needed to expand. There’s only so much “black t-shirt” rock one station could play, and we were maxed out! I wouldn’t say we started from scratch, the core of the library stayed the same… but the rest was all new: the image, the delivery, the overall presentation changed. And we expanded the library to cover some eras / genres we never touched. It’s now about playing the best of the best from all worlds; giving the listeners a different kind of experience. The support both locally and on the corporate level for Radio 92.3 has been tremendous. The job we have ahead of us now is to stay the course. No more changes. Even something as small as the change we made from WKRI to WKRK, one small letter, had an effect. People hear something different in the top of the hour ID and were like “now what?” No more. We are, and always will be WKRK “Radio 92.3”.
Howard: PPM has been kind to your station and your ratings have been consistent and strong. What can you tell us about the latest ratings and the make up of your audience? Are you surprised by anything that you've learned in the last year or so?
Nard: We own men; 18-34, 18-49 we’re on top. Men 25-54 we’re top 3. Persons 18-34 we jump around the top with Kiss and 'ENZ. The 25-54 numbers that have come with PPM have been great. The thing I learned over the past year is that people really don’t listen to a station all day like they did in the diary world! Writing down call letters and then a line through the day isn’t possible in PPM! The “popularity game” aspect of the ratings is gone. It’s reality versus recall. And the reality is, you need to make great radio and play hits; every minute of the day, every day of the week.
Howard: You do a lot with a little. Tell our readers how you run the station with such a small staff and how your job has personally changed in the last couple of years.
Nard: I had someone comment to me a couple of weeks ago “you have it so easy, you have no staff to deal with.” It’s quite the opposite, I am THE staff… I’m the Program Director, the Music Director, the Imaging Director, I have to think like a jock, blog like a jock… update Twitter, execute contests, host listener events… I do have a Production Director, Verlane Snell, who is great. He is the perfect “other guy” to have here. He gets it, he understands the brand, gets the vibe of the station and what we’re doing. I tend to be a bit OCD with details and Verlane is totally on top of it. I’m surrounded by people who get the Radio 92.3 brand. It helps that we were all here and created this monster together. It was no one-person job. Dan Mason actually helped pick our voice guy! He was on all of the emails of mp3s we were passing around before launch.
Howard: Since you are a one-man programming department, what is your music selection process? What are the most important factors that you look at in choosing to champion a song?
Nard: I work with Keith at Jacobs Media and we talk constantly. We just make sure we’re playing hits and not being too cool for the room. Know the market, know their expectations, meet those expectations and don’t try to be something you’re not. When you look at the big picture, we really don’t “champion” much. But for Cleveland, being the only outlet for some of this music, it is championing to the market. Airborne Toxic Event was a huge success for us; we were real early on Cage The Elephant, too. They just had that sound. We do these concerts called “Cheap Dates,” an up-and-coming band plus a local opener at House of Blues for like $1. We did one way early on with Cage and did a few hundred people. They came back on their own last month and sold out 1300. The Airborne Toxic Event Cheap Date was out of control. We had to move it to the bigger room at HOB because it was selling like crazy. And it ended up selling out. We have a Cheap Date with Neon Trees and Civil Twilight coming up. Plus, it’s another NTR source.
Howard: It takes so much for music to break through. What do you like to see from a label once you commit to a song?
Nard: I like to see the label and band have the same commitment I have. I don’t have an overnight category or some BS rotation, if you’re in, you’re in. I want to see that the band is out there working and will stay out there working. Once it’s on the air doesn’t mean anyone’s work is done. I want to marry the band with the Radio 92.3 brand and own everything they do. And there are quite a few bands we have done that with: Cage, Airborne Toxic Event, 30 Seconds To Mars, Silversun Pickups, Rise Against… when you hear those bands, you think Radio 92.3.
Howard: Your website is an integral part of your station. What are some of the things you do online and how do they enhance and compliment what you do on air?
Nard: The site is how we interact with the listeners. We execute contests there or via texting. Instead of trying to explain something on the air, it’s easier to say “Smashing Pumpkins coming in for a Radio 92.3 concert, details at radio923fm.com.” It tightens things up on the air. With our new site, everyone here can contribute. I blog constantly; music news or tech news or even local news. When a local hiker went missing, I kept the site updated with details on the search. If the weather turns ugly, I’ll keep the site updated. We work with the local CBS TV affiliate here and get weather content from there. We have a couple of really cool partnerships set up and share content. Listeners contribute a lot. I’m always getting pictures emailed to me from concerts. When bands roll through town, they do acoustic performances that we video for the site. We have local bands do that too. Instead of a jock answering the phones, the website is how people interact with us. They know they can email me a question or comment and I’ll hit them back.
Howard: We are all fortunate to have some incredible experiences in our jobs. Can you pinpoint one or two that you wouldn't trade for anything?
Nard: As most people know, I am a tremendously mega-huge fan of Our Lady Peace. It goes way back to before their first CD ever hit the States. Over the past 15+ years, we have become really good friends. When they were in town last summer they invited me on stage to play drums on a couple of songs. It was amazing! There’s footage of it on radio923fm.com. Something on a more conscious level, we did a promotion with Rise Against where we took some winners and volunteered at the Cleveland Foodbank. It really opened my eyes to the problems in my own backyard. The band was so gracious and got in there and worked while we were at the Foodbank. It was in no way just a “photo op”. Ever since then, I volunteer a lot of my time at the Foodbank.
Howard: Does your family call you Nard or Dominic? Or maybe Dom? Or do they call you by some other clever and/or cute name?
Nard: The nieces and nephews call me “Uncle D.” Everyone else just calls me “D” or “Dude.” I had one of those wacky skater haircuts in my early teens… you know, shaved on one side and all floppy on the other… so all through high school I was called “Dude” by everyone, teachers, friends, family… it still sticks down in Ytown. I went to a Catholic high school… nothing like a nun calling you “Dude”! “Dude to the principal’s office”!!!
Howard: I'm a native Clevelander and we are taught at a very young age to say, "next season." What's your take on the Browns for this year?
Nard: Luckily I am not one of those people that let sports make or break my day. Yeah, I was bummed when the Cavs blew it in the first round. It’s disappointing the Indians are doing so poorly this summer. I really have no take on the Browns. I do like hockey quite a bit and have been a Pens fan all of my life.
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Nard: So I guess the first question is to ask how / why did you get into the business?
Howard: Simply put, I have loved music since I was a young kid and loved listening to the radio, so I was determined to work around music, even if it only lasted a few years. I started in radio in 1988 and did that full-time at a couple of stations in Virginia until 1995 and continued doing part-time when I lived in Atlanta from 1995 to 1997. While in radio I always enjoyed dealing with promotion people and working with bands so when I decided I had my fill of radio, my goal was to get into promotion when I moved to Atlanta. After a few months of being unemployed I landed a part-time radio job with WKLS and then a month later a very kind gentleman named Randy Saad gave me a full-time job doing promotion with an independent label, Ichiban Records. I had a college degree and 7 years of radio experience and that added up to making $7 an hour at the label but I felt like the luckiest guy in the world. The first person to ever call me back was Carter Alan from WBCN; I was really psyched about that! I got to work with the Fleshtones, who I was a fan of but my break came when we were working a song by Dash Rip Rock, a novelty song that was a knock-off of "Let's Go To The Hop" called "Let's Go Smoke Some Pot." Not really knowing better, I just called every station and was persistent enough to eventually get programmers on the phone, get the record spun and then the song just reacted. Eventually, Roadrunner was hiring a regional staff, they hired me and I worked there for a bit and then went to the short-lived Enclave label (thank you Val Delong) and then Mammoth Records. I had a chance to interview with Virgin Records for a local gig, which I didn't get, but they kept my number handy and a few months later, Michael Plen offered me a job to be the Boston local. My wife and I had been married a little over a year and we had recently bought a house in Atlanta so, obviously, the logical thing to do was to pack everything up and move to Boston! Virgin was one of the two labels I had always wanted to work for and even though I had never been to Boston, I decided to go for it and it was the best career decision I have ever made. I did local in Boston from 1998 to 2001 and have the scars to prove it. I had the good fortune of working some amazing programmers and stations, from Oedipus and the crew at WBCN, John Ivey and Kid David at Kiss 108, WFNX, WAAF, I could go on and on but that market was incredibly active and so many records were broken out of it. I came to New York in 2001 to do National Alternative promotion and I've been here ever since.
Nard: You have a wife and three young kids (I've met 'em all, very cool family), how do you juggle your time to make sure you are giving your family enough dad / husband time?
Howard: Thanks Nard, and the kids keep asking me if they can go back to Radio 92.3 every time we go to Cleveland to visit family! It's not really about juggling my time but more about how I balance my life overall. Work days are long and travel is an important part of the job. I put 100% into the job but when I'm home, I'm home and dedicate all of my time to my family. I'm not a sit on the couch and watch TV kind of guy so I just spend time with my kids, help them with their homework, read and play with them when I get home, hang out with them on the weekends and I use my days off wisely so I never miss any events. Occasionally the worlds mix, like the time I took my kids to see Coldplay at Hershey Park; it was work, family and fun all at once. So that's my life, family, work and other than that, I get up at 5:30am to run and exercise and spend my little free time being an obsessive vinyl collector/music geek. Luckily, I work for great people like Greg Thompson and Bill Carroll who work incredibly hard but also understand that a balanced life is the key to happiness and they create an environment where we work hard, achieve great results but have time for the important things in life.
Nard: All of your artists are very hard workers, from Saving Abel and Sick Puppies to 30 Seconds To Mars and Gorillaz... they are always doing stuff for radio. Is there a lot of arm-twisting going on or do they all just understand it's what needs to be done nowadays?
Howard: Bill Carroll and I have developed good relationships with all of our artists, managers and booking agents and we act as a team with the goal of breaking each artist and really connecting them with fans, consumers and radio. All of the artists that you mention work in different ways and do different things but the one thing they all have in common is that they all understand that radio is incredibly important to their career and the success of their record. So, there isn't really any arm-twisting, we just explain to each artist how we want to approach a project and get a feel for what they're willing to do and what their individual parameters are. We've been surprised many times by how much an artist is willing to do if you A) ask them and B) explain exactly what they need to do and the benefits. It seems that people often expect an artist to just say no or not do something because they never have before. I look at it as nothing ventured, nothing gained and just ask. If they say no, we just move on but more often than not we get great things done. Alice in Chains is a great recent example. They hadn't been active with a label for years and they were new to Virgin/EMI but from the moment we signed them, we got to know them and created a great partnership and I give them so much credit for working incredibly hard and always giving it 100%. The results have been amazing.
Capitol has done some really cool web-based promotions with their bands... who is behind those and which one stands out in your mind?
Howard: Thanks! Until very recently, each department did them individually whenever we had the time to and those are things that I enjoy doing. Frequently there just wasn't enough time to realize and implement every idea that we had so Greg Thompson promoted our former Boston regional, Dee Dee Kearney to oversee all of our web promotions with radio across all formats and we work with her on any ideas that we have. My favorites are the Gorillaz virtual tour on the last album and an interactive video chat with 30 Seconds to Mars that we did when their new album came out. Giving stations a steady stream of great online content is essential to compliment our airplay.
It seems like no company, in either radio or records, has been immune to the "recession"... staff cuts, non-existent budgets... how do you still do great promotion with less money?
We have nine people in the field as opposed to 14 when I started so the territories are larger and the work load is heavier than ever. The Virgin/Capitol merger basically doubled our roster and the workload. I hate using clichés but they exist for a reason, so I'll drop one now - for us the key is focus. Bill and I have the responsibility of managing all of the records on a national level for the Alternative format and prioritizing them with each station individually. That sounds basic but when you have five to eight records at a format as diverse as ours, not to mention bands on the road, it takes a lot of focus to manage each record and keep everything moving forward. The approach to great promotion, regardless of budgets, is the same as it's always been - effective and consistent communication and having great relationships with our partners at radio. Every station, just like every artist, is different and we get to know our stations and the markets that they serve and work with them to secure, grow and maximize our airplay and build great promotions and marketing around the airplay. It's also important to maximize all of the tools and content available from our artists because radio has more than just spins to offer and we want to provide our artists with every opportunity to break through the on-air and online clutter so they can connect with listeners.
Both you and Bill Carroll are very passionate about the projects you work. Have you ever sat back and thought you were too close to a band and maybe your opinions and decisions were clouded?
Howard: I will never apologize for being passionate and more often than not, that passion along with a calculated plan produces great results for our artists. 30 Seconds to Mars is probably the best example. It took a lot of effort to get that band to even be taken seriously, much less break through. We saw signs that, "Attack," the first single from the last album, was connecting early and, just as importantly we saw that they were selling out the clubs they were playing and the fans were going crazy. We directed that energy outward to radio, inward to the company and just kept pushing until the songs and the band broke through and the music was given a chance to succeed, which it has done. As a promotion person, I never ask myself, "do I personally enjoy this song?" That isn't part of the job. Our job is to take every artist and every song and make a plan for success. The first step is where to start and then how to create and develop momentum and passion can enter the equation at any time although it mainly comes from the feedback received from the audience. Blind belief with nothing to back it up won't get you very far but measured passion used in the right way at the right time is an asset and it's one that I use for every record that we work.
From your side of the business, do you have to work PPM stations differently or have you noticed that THEY work differently?
Howard: Like I said before, we all have to work each station in the right way and that will vary from station to station. The main observation I have of PPM stations in the Alternative format is that they are taking the route of playing less currents and relying more on recurrents and gold. Fewer slots means that we have to be a lot more patient, which isn't a trait that I'm known for, but it's an adjustment we all have to make. A big concern of mine (and, I assume, of my colleagues as well) is, with the reliance on gold and smaller playlists, where will the hits of the future come from and who will start them? The philosophy seems to be "we won't make the hits but we'll play them to death once they become hits." Core artists generally get the benefit of the doubt and sometimes those songs work, other times they don't but they have an easier time gaining critical mass, but newer artists have to rely on a shrinking number of stations that will step out on new, unproven music. I ask that radio exercise a little patience as well and understand that some things will move more slowly and it's not always about "you're down 15 spins so the song must be over" but the overall health of a record and how well it is working in your particular market. The thing that keeps me going is that there is a healthy appetite for new music and even with all of the changes in the music business and radio, new music is breaking through. That and strong coffee keep me going!
[FMQB ORIGINAL CONTENT, published June 2010, please do not republish or reprint without the express consent of FMQB. Make sure you visit us on the Web at www.fmqb.com] |
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